Paula Blair speaks to writer and director Leslie Goyette and producer Michele Englehart about their film Maysville (2021). In our conversation you’ll learn about their 3-year journey from script to finished film, their experience with crowdfunding and the kindness of communities, and the sheer tenacity it takes to achieve a goal you really believe in. This is an enjoyable and illuminating conversation which I hope you’ll get something out of and share.
Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.
Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.
Recorded with Zoom on 4 May 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings on Patreon.
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though you’re very welcome to you RT of facial cultures the podcast that explores different areas of film the arts and media I’m Paul up there and in this episode I talk to the writer and director let’s see cognacs and producer Michelle Engelhard’s abate their film maze filled which is available on various streaming sites as well as on DVD and Blu ray and the U. S. you’ll find useful links in the show notes and everything else you’ll need audio visual cultures dot com a big thank you to our patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures his generosity is funding our websites and thanks as well to you heather pony read he replied on Instagram and I posted about yes more computer bows as it seems we have the same laptop and heather says I recently discovered your podcast and it’s great I’m really glad you’re enjoying it has their hands thank you and everyone else for investing in for engaging with us wherever you do that so in today’s discussion we skirted around Paul details for the film may you spell but I think that it’s fine for me to say that it is a tragic family ands coming of age periods drama set in depression era of the ship if you’re not aware of it it’s a real might necessary it in the United States Leslie and Michelle take history quite a lot of the production details including importantly their experience with crowdfunding and simply asking for things that you told people what they needed and they made a film that looks a lot more expensive than a speaker because of the kindness of the community stay were working with and I think that’s really pertinent for me because I was living in Newcastle upon Tyne has taught me shy bairns get nights you know if you don’t ask you don’t get let’s see Michelle really show you why it’s important to just go for it to just tell people like this is what we needs today that S. what do you think what can you do with a mention some difficult topics around death poverty and abusive behavior but there’s also a lot of joy and hope the restore some faith in humanity and both the story of may spell on the Siri if making maze spell they may face so it really hope you enjoy this one it was it was just a really great conversation and it was a real joy to meet lastly and Michelle as well they’re they’re welcome back anytime so hope you get a lottery if it nine I know I certainly did let’s see go yes and Michelle Banco hearts thank you so much for joining me on audio visual cultures we’re going to discuss your independent film maze spell that’s just so exciting but this first of all if it’s okay could I ask each of you C. NG sure selves to bet on C. six billion the roles each if you had in the film if we start with Leslie is out all right now I’m amazed to Michelle my name’s Leslie yeah I was the writer and one of the producers and the director for the town I am amazing partner Michelle yes my name is Michelle it’ll hurt I am %HESITATION producer and maze spell Celeste Lee and I teamed up to get the film made I know that getting the film made a toll was a huge achievement for both fifty and so we’ll try and learn a bit of bite that at any moment spent where did the story come from and why did you decide to tell it on film will talk but the story itself in a bad spot %HESITATION I just wondered what were the origins of the story first of all well the origins of the story it’s a coming of age story set in the nineteen twenties and that part of the United States called Appalachia Appalachia is a remote part of the United States it’s a very mountainous area it’s part of where I grew up so that part of the country it’s that poverty stricken area and I kind of wanted to tell a story about things that I had seen and things that I had witnessed and growing up in that area but I also want to take it back in time a little bit some of the characters are kinda loosely very loosely based on people that I had interacted with throughout my life heady and Willie that G. main characters early on in the film are are based on my sister and my relationship the closeness that we add the adventures that they have together things like that those are all things that I did as a child with my sister it’s not by any means autobiographical goodness it’s not autobiographical it’s based on you know the area where I grew up with and that’s where it came to me and why is hold on film was it the second part your question in Leslie can answer this better than me but I just want to say is a writer Leslie is a very visual writer when I first read the script I could picture every scene my mind like how it was going to beat it and she’s not a prolific writer is very you know not a lot of information but if the right amount of information for me to visualize really picture how how this would be films which I thought was unusual to do read a lot of scripts I think she’s a visual writer which lends itself to film and Sam and then it’s out what really attracted you to producing it that Michelle was just she wanted to visualize sought for Leslie well it will tell you the back story the city especially night we knew each other do we to have met on the set that are %HESITATION kids had done a commercial for probably eight years ago now while ago and kept in touch via social media Facebook she lives in Portland which is about three hours from where I’m at in Seattle so just you know queen says over social media but one day she came to me and asked if I’d be she had watched a short film that I had put out on social media that my son had been in and she watched it and thought he would be perfect for the role of Willie for this script she wrote I didn’t know she was a writer and she had never previously shown anybody her scripts so she’s kind of like a closet raiders just she sent me the scripts and I started reading it and I’m not sure if you had time to watch the film but the set up of the film is with the boys you know their tweens the first fifteen minutes of the film you watch the set up and I read up to that point in the script and I was just like oh my god this is one of the best scripts I’ve read and I could just my heart I was totally engaged by page ten you know just sucked in and by like sixteen or something I text her I said oh my god is she said oh my god good %HESITATION oh my god dad because I was the first person to read the script and I said oh my god I just called her and I said this is so good this is just so good so that’s how I got selected I didn’t know maybe at that time that was her first script I didn’t know anything you know if she’s made any short films or anything she came up to Seattle we did a table read and then after the table read she said so I don’t know if this can just be a short film if we could do a feature length film but you know what you ladies we can get it done could you help me I’ve never done so before so I don’t know I I tell people I don’t usually believe in fate but there was I feel like there’s an element here why this all came together why I said yes I thought it was just crazy I’m more conservative than Leslie and you know don’t usually take risks like this and I just was a great time in my life and we kind of just figured it out together over the last three and half years it’s been kind of a crazy ride we’ve learned a ton a ton and I think we produce something pretty good for you know given what we %HESITATION the resources that we had a play into second let’s see do you want to add anything to Michelle stories there well yeah I think that I I I call myself a closet writer for many years I have so many scripts and short stories and so on and that I write but I’ve always felt that sharing your writing is like letting someone see ill make it you know nobody you just don’t want to do that and because it shows all your flaws it shows you know your inhibitions it shows everything in your writing and people can’t really judge you on your writing style even though I love to write I’ve never really shared by writing with anyone so it was a big step a big step for me to say Hey I’m going to share something with you and it was easier to share it with someone that I didn’t know really well then it was share share with someone who I intimately know or care a lot about because Michelle could have been honest with me does that make sense I’m Michelle had no nothing best and she could have hurt my feelings that thank you I think it’s a something for us right now but her response was authentic and genuine and she was very enthusiastic about the script and made me feel somewhat validated I guess all writers maybe need some kind of validation before they take the next step at least for me at it that’s a really important story to tell I think because there’s probably a lot of people like they’re like you you hear setting on work and they’re too scared to share it with anyone and that’s a really great story of where it can actually work I’d if you take that leap into the abyss so that’s really great for people to hear I hope hope hope you know art is the most important thing to me art most important thing in the world because it it brings joy right whatever form of art there is it brings joy and it sometimes being on her way to share your arch keeps people from sharing it you know and it may really resonate with someone hi tended to did you go from the the ID in the script Sakshi getting it into production because I know that you you went to in the crowd funding rates I’m sure there’s a big story behind that as well I think one of the smart moves we made as we carved out six months to see how much money we could race to see whether we could take on a feature length film funding wise or whether we just might have enough money to do what we feel would be to put forward a short film I think a lot of filmmakers at least one a lot of local indie filmmakers I know they don’t necessarily take that time may kind of wing it and try to do stuff and no money and I do think we did the right thing by taking that time and doing it and it it didn’t just raise the funds it helps spur our marketing right from the very beginning to start building your audience early is that some advice we got from another producer that I think is was well taken so you can the two can go hand in hand we did a big what we thought was a big crowd funding and indie gogo which was quite successful we more than made our goal and that inspired us to think that we had enough to meet your future phone which we actually end up doing we had to do a lot of asking because we didn’t have enough money to make a really good quality feature of the film is set back in the nineteen twenties so that’s another feat that’s quite hard to pull off as an indie filmmaker to make it at that tech looking to the nineteen twenties and more expensive right all the props and Senate locations and all that so in addition to %HESITATION you know raising the money we had to do a lot of asking of Hey can you volunteer to let us use your vintage car yeah we asked the town’s we found two historic towns next to each other for filming you know we had to ask you know their city council if we can use their public spaces they gave it to us for free just about all the locations were given to us for free to use the props antiques and even an old tractors the perfect old tractor we’re looking for the actually look new we found a steam train there’s a local steam train that actually still operates down there and we needed one for the film they gave us the use of that for free yeah I mean it was just almost ridiculous how much was just given to us just because we asked so the combination of raising what we thought was enough money in conjunction with just getting out there and asking people people are excited said make a film this was in two towns that are pretty not remote but there is not a lot going on down there and them and they are historic and I think that a lot of people in those towns that was really cool that it a film set back in the twenties is going to be made in their towns there’s a lot of get up and go a lot of good will down there that we found it we also did at dinner fundraiser down there to raise money that was the initial reason but it actually did a lot more than that it got that good will get the word out in the excitement out a lot of the Ted that people down there became extras in the film they’re really excited about that and some of them brought their own wardrobes and just got really into it even the fire chief the ad at the fire station helped us we didn’t have sixteen hundred dollars to rent a rain machine so he he brought fire track and hooked up the hose and we got one K. we got one shot on this one J. and he just prayed the hose in the air and got the rain to come down on the actors and their work we were so excited we had shot the scene twice already with no rain right well doesn’t work we’ll have our back up right yes so and and it was amazing just to see the community come together to try to make this project because when we were at the dinner we just had a captive audience we ask people were like this is what we need this is what we need this is what we need is what we need and by the time we were done with that dinner we had two people volunteer their farms to be burnt down and we were just kind of you know right away what we need to burn down the barn does anyone ever bark we can burn down yes you well in two years yeah we’re just jokingly asking to %HESITATION thing that we learned in all of this is that at the end of the day people want to help people thank you it’s just a lot of times people don’t want to ask for help the R. model began eighteen it became that power up the ass be authentic in your ask be truthful be honest let them know this is where I’m coming from I don’t have a budget where I can you know give you money the people were just %HESITATION one all and excited to be you know a part of it it’d be part of something creative that’s bigger than yourself I think that I would sign on if somebody asked me you know it anyway it’s it’s exciting to be part of something that so many people are involved in to actually put something on the big screen that could look really good they didn’t know asked they didn’t know we had no stars in the film you know no A. listers that are recognizable and murky but they totally bought into the story and the idea of making a film down there and the fact it was sent back in time I think it was a another big selling point can also tune into six story and I just feel like there’s a whole other side of this film as well it’s going to really beautiful story that can circulate with so I think that to get into more details but the film itself you know as indicated very clearly by the title the location is so important and as you’re saying it’s that community and I it’s great to hear such a positive story right the making of the film because I think the film itself deals is really very difficult and she’s and not so much of a community spirit going on if I’m picking up on that right so I was just wondering if you kids help flashlight a bit more for any listeners especially here in the U. K. you know we’re we’re fed a lot of sculpture from the U. S. but the specific location and after that time that you’re talking about most of us are going to know absolutely nothing about that so if it’s okay could you just help flesh out a bit more forests to depression era I it’s very rural very might necessary yet and then the sorts of issues that you’re dealing with that because you know there’s going to be a lot bubbling up Ryan’s not as well in terms of because I think the suffrage movement but is going on and and there’s a lot of racial problems and then there’s classic she’s while you’ve mentioned so if you’re happy to maybe less EKG just last Saturday but Marcus what’s your story as well you want to tell well if we’re gonna talk about Appalachia I do need to make sure that I preface that these are my people this is where I grew up and I love the end of your where I’m from so by any means I’m the purpose of this is not to shine a negative light on the people of Appalachia but Appalachian in the nineteen twenty eight is very different %HESITATION Appalachian ballad eight we’re up we’re going back in time and we’re looking at a time when I don’t think things were so different so much in Appalachia as they were in other parts of the country women were more of a second class citizen then man even in the early nineteen twenties when men that were just started a little bit more we were dealing with I don’t want to give away too much of the story is there is a very big twist at the end and the big twist at the end actually we’ll explain the actions by a lot of the characters throughout infidelity is one of the most memorable thing that you could have done in that time in Appalachia it’s something that that was our letter you know what I’m saying very much about starlet letter that area it fell yeah like I said it’s under Sir but there’s not a lot of well generations after generations after generations lived there but not a lot of people a lot of families can’t break out of poverty cycle but at the same time they’re also a very strong eight they’re very strong in their faith and their beliefs so trying to explain that without giving like much of a story and it’s a little little bit than a fine line to walk there but it’s a very beautiful part of the country the Appalachian trail a lot of people will hike that it is just the mountains trail %HESITATION on the eastern part of the United States it’s beautiful and the people are wonderful they’re just very set in their ways and sometimes people will justify their actions by what has happened yeah and I hate to use the %HESITATION terms but I four nine if you hear a lot of times people still feel that way and back in that time the nineteen twenties there was not on law enforcement as you see it now right there was one local sheriff for like three or four to L. and that was the case that the story up there we had one share I never hear of many different things like that so I hope that can help an indescribable Billboard it Leslie you know the extension that some of this a lot of it is pulled from her her childhood here in there which Leslie and I are about the same age so grew up in the seventies it’s set back in the nineteen twenties because maybe it’s a little bit more believable so that some of this these things actually can happen they still actually Leslie maybe you could talk to this can happen today that some of the things that happen in the movie like that could never happen Welton Leslie might know about the situations in her childhood where things like that actually did happen yeah I grew up with this and we were court reporter growing up we didn’t have a car I don’t think anyone would ever relate to that you know what I’m saying the seventies eighties and nineties growing up how did you not have a car but we don’t have a car I would have a telephone that sounds great to you and when I was in high school we did not have a telephone we couldn’t afford it and having that you know even though some of the things that you see you know was in the seventies eighties and nineties I took it back to the twenties because I just don’t think that if I told the story of the seventies eighties and nineties well not as we’re not believed that people would not believe that how does a family not have excel how do you not have a land line in your house we didn’t read it I had a single mother with trying to raise three children of our own and it was just their circumstances that we grew up in so we decided I decided to take this story back to the twenties to make some updates you know that I can relate you’re from my child care it would explain things a lot easier that’s really great to hear about that less because I was something I was gonna ask you bite cassette the setting is almost a hundred years on from where we are today I think that actually quite a few of the issues that come up in the film are really Prashant right now all right I think especially with a lot of what we said with their abusive behavior and race relations and gender and equality and everything he can and well into the twenty first century noise so I think it is a very twenty twenty story and a lot of ways as much as as a nineteen twenty sorry so it it’s really great to hear I’m really fascinating what you’re saying is well the plight that decision to go back to the Chinese that makes a lot of sense actually because I grew up more in the eighties and the U. K. and yet we do even for a lot of a CVP considers horror underprivileged but we probably would have had access T. a landline telephone or a cover of some description at even a neighbor’s car or something like that so you know that’s really just fastening contacts here but I thought thank you both for that yeah yeah you just hit the nail on the head you’re really did you’re really something that up very well it’s just interesting you know even when I was telling myself some of the stories from my childhood shows like what at the same time and regionally we were just a few hundred miles from each other she was growing up in Illinois and I was growing up in Kentucky but we grew up in two very different worlds very very different worlds and it’s just fascinating just to see that how to people who are completely different not far from each other but just experienced two drastically different either you mentioned earlier as well that the two boys teddy and waylaid the beast very roughly on you and your sister and then putting it back to the twenties and changing them to police as Scott Disick in to facilitate the storytelling do you think it’s easier for employees or it’s easier for me because there were some parts that I did want to share about my life okay I just felt that it was the right thing to do was to make them boys some of the things that make my sister and I did work very well wait role you know what we would find in the Barnes and Klein you know fifty feet in the rockers I would die now if I saw my kids doing things like that you know we we go frog gigging and you know we would ship times we shot guns and in the field not a lot of things that you see Freddy and really doing there definitely more masculine things but those are the things that we had it that’s what we had to play with when you’re married remember from people so that’s just what we had to delete things that were around that’s what we have to play with and that’s what we yet there is a lot of times when I was very emotional on set you know I just think that it it would have been two little girls I would’ve been a total basket okay I’m still close with my sister and I love her so much but I think having a boy it’s the kind of things a little are a little bit more controllable yeah that makes a lot of census three users here I mean we talked earlier as well right just hi positives it production experience was and it does look like he hello maybe we can consider a lot of the actors as terribly famous or anything like that they’re actually really high caliber it and the performances set you’ve got out of them and she’s got really high production values and hi the film has been found the lighting music and and all of these elements that make it looks very polished and they make it look a lot more expensive than I probably actually will which is one of the men thank you all right coming from you that really means a lot someone has so much education and someone who has spent so much time studying found that’s really sweet of you to say that means that means a lot but we you know we were limited with our actors we were limited with what we had to change from what we have to work with but I do agree with you I do think that we got some really really genuine performances and %HESITATION I think that it came through and they were more than just characters they really worked really hard to get to where they needed to be instrumental scenes for heart things were very hard but I think they roast beef thank you all we wanted to make a family I talked to Michelle about this I did not want to tell this story how a modern day director would tell story stories nowadays are very different R. told very different and how old they are we’re told when I was when my children watch that comes from my childhood and I’m like oh this is scanned by me you’re gonna love it rob Reiner’s great blah blah blah this is Ron Howard and this is Joe Dante when I share with them they think I’ll use work %HESITATION really %HESITATION and they’re very much a narrative belt right whereas a more modern day wait you’re a lot of our modern day story starts with inner dialogue the characters we must the reaction that we eat your entry the audience you’re trying to see what is going through the mind of the characters and it’s not so bad body yet so Michelle and I were we want to tell in old fashioned story not very old fashioned but I wanted to tell it the way that we grew up watching and that was the intent that so with the listen to the score the score is very much something you would have heard and the eighties and nineties someone brought up out of Africa it has we’re going out of Africa or something like that and it’s more of an epic sound to it then something that it’s a little bit more modern and that was the look and the feel that we were going for day one with our cinematographer antara composer the film is getting really positive reviews wherever people are watching it so catchy point the search to words where they can find it and any information that as well like they’re they complained about it he Michelle would you like to yeah so it’s on Amazon and designed to be TV and it’s on Google play and YouTube it’s also being taken to the console market coming up so we’re excited to see if it hopefully can go somewhere yeah that Avenue and yeah we’re on Facebook based on the movie and Facebook is probably the best place to go to social media to find out the latest %HESITATION what’s going on there filming the reviews we post in there all the press everything is on and our Facebook page did I miss anything less like so interesting hi there if you have anything you you really want to hot up in the film because we’ve been tiptoeing around the story because we don’t want to give too much away but is there anything else you wanna add about your experience in making acts and the people that you worked with anything at all well I think we kind of already said it but just to reiterate that craziness of how I mean you mentioned the production quality value the film and that the good acting all round I think we really made a really solid looking film that’s the feedback we get that looks studio quality if you know more about our budget was less than six figure six you know you have to you know we say for the price of a new car we made this film over the course of three years and I I am biased but I think it looks and feels and watches it’s just it’s amazing for what we specs and I think you know we’re first time filmmakers never even made a short film before and we did this and pulled it off and so I think that’s that’s the story behind the story be back in just in general that’s a really good story beautifully told and we just hope that people will watch it and I see I hope this gives you the confidence to get more of the scripts I do thought closet yeah hello I I hope to find that one person out there that would believe in me we’ve been to hell do not tell anyone what you spent on the stock don’t keep that budget look you know keep it quiet because if anyone knew what we what we really did here with the amount of money that week that they would know that it was tried just shy of a miracle thanks there’s a part of me that says look what I can do for this amount of money if you would just believe in me I can do an amazing product with a few hundred thousand dollars you know I don’t even need you know millions of dollars I don’t need that and I don’t think a lot of people I need to bring a quality piece of work I don’t I don’t there was no backing up your call back I don’t know if you have heard of that or saw it but it was just for actors in a room that’s it and for a credible actors in the film was done for three hundred thousand dollars it just goes to prove that I’m trying you can just have a good story and if you have a good performance %HESITATION and just believe it stopped working I just believe in not directed that they can deliver something I would love to be able to find someone with a refurbished Alibag if we have so many stories that we have we can share there’s very different remains though very different where it I’m definitely more of a I liked eating any unnecessarily horror when I left I left to get people thinking I have four other scripts but I would love to help right thank you this crazy thing again I think that sets the toxic message to the nation I absolutely hear ye I I just totally agree with everything that you’re saying give people chances give people resources and look what they can achieve so that’s such an important message for this and I I just feel so privileged that you folks come on and talk about all this and shared your story and I hope that my tiny podcast can in some small way get that message out there as well for you so let’s see K. S. and Michelle angle heart thank you so much for your time thank you so much for sharing your story and just wish you all the best with everything it has to come and I hope there are great things coming for you and %HESITATION I really hope I get sick T. again that more links another time yeah me too well thank you so much thank you so much well it’s been a pleasure yeah it’s brilliant
Last month I attempted to create a communal chalk drawing, by inviting the guests at an event I organized to grab a piece of chalk on the way out and contribute to a drawing that I had already started. The event was an interview with Richard Demarco, arts patron, artist and national treasure of both Scotland and the UK. In the 1970s, Demarco cultivated a strong friendship with German artist Joseph Beuys, a performance artist who developed the idea of social sculpture, which meant that even a conversation could be a work of art. He also espoused the idea that everyone is an artist—everyone has an inner creativity that is just waiting to be tapped.
My interview with Richard Demarco
Demarco, too, believes that. This is the creativity that we all access as children, as we draw in chalk on the sidewalk or colour outside…
hello and welcome to you what do you facial cultures the podcast that makes it different Terry is a film arts and media and their significance and culture I am your host Paula Blair and in this episode I’d like to take stock and Chuck T. up by where were asked with this show and some of the things I’ve been working on so far in twenty twenty to you because I’ve been doing quite a lot of writing and not so much recording but the store and get stuck in I wanna give my deepest thanks to our incredible patrons out pastry on dot com forward slash AP cultures and you’re not already won over patrons and you’re interested in accessing exclusive bonus content such as C. unedited video recordings of interviews has made during these constructions and things I take radios or other kinds of Baxter is that I paid I just for patrons at different tiers to go and check right the tears and see what’s on offer even if you join a to pay what you count here you can joins from one point or one dollar amounts for example and you can be on not tear you can be on any tear and pay more than the asking price for that tear I think that’s just a minimum and you can she sped up if you really want Hey but even just at the lowest here you’ll get early access to these episodes you know you get the machine days before everybody else can they send either MPG on directly or through your own dedicated RSS feeds for our patients already he should have access to those if you’re not accessing those new having problems without to sent me knowing this I don’t know if there’s a problem if somebody doesn’t tell me so the link for our peach tree and is also in the show notes but it’s that quick if you just J. Petri on dot com forward slash AP culture share find us and also if you look at our websites audio visual cultures dot com so when Marge hello Ricky S. you’ll be able to find all of those thanks as well as the full show notes transcripts and lots more information and you can also donate it directly in various ways in the website if you use pay pal if you got money in your PayPal and it’s weighing heavily in your pay pal kind I’ll happily take some of it off your hands for you those are nice ways to support and thank you for anything you do you already but I must say thanks as well to those if he he engaged on social media our Instagram is taking off I think just right at the end of March we had four hundred followers so it was quite exciting that’s the most followers the podcast is hot on any social media I give up really with the FIA spec for awhile I mostly used to face spec see you know use the matter saying because it’s connected to Instagram as well so I use it to shed chill posts and stories and stuff this doesn’t always work which is annoying but you know it’s a free service so the fees spec I think really just a day before a recording this the Facebook page I don’t know it started telling me to update it or something I was clicking all the no buttons and it did not saying where and no buttons that they became a yes without me realising and it updated to PH I have more followers than there were lakes on that night all of all of those are gone I don’t know I don’t understand Instagram is fun Twitter was the one I cook it acts and then it became a trash fire but say hello on Twitter as well because I am ready axis for the podcast at least on Twitter thanks for people he recharged on those we have had some of the comments I’m Startin to retaliate night every the start of every episode I’m read nights we’ve had so many nice feedback from somebody who spend less than I’ve started putting these honest testimonials on our web page as well so if you go to the home page of our website if you keep scrolling down to the bottom you’ll see the most recent testimonials posted there and I’m working my way Siri giving somebody a shot a night for locks I really appreciate it this means a lot of the people are listening and it’s lovely to hear thought because I I suppose I wanted to build a community with this but you know I’m an introvert and all sorts of other things you know and probably a bit of a mess some troop as well so I’m not very gate assets being central to community but I’d like to have community it’s a weird one I know %HESITATION anyway so I had some really lovely comments from Dr Fiona noble he guested on the show and episode one hundred and four please have a listen to a lot of heat Mr S. R. you’ve joined us and Stan or you know it fell off your radar it’s a really lovely conversations you and I are good friends so there is a bit of %HESITATION terror and stuff as well and very cheeky with farmer checking with her than I am with a lot of other casts because usually casts are strangers or people I’ve never met before words soon and I have known each other a good number of years nine and I can be checking back by myself Sir when I when I say cheeky I mean B. mice how hopeful so that the suit is about her research on contemporary Spanish cinema and language teaching on the twenty eighth of January this year beyond that kindly tweet ads and I quote my brilliant friend Pete Blair creates the podcast audio visual cultures AV cultures pods this week’s episode is an absolute traits super important conversation with Damian Taylor right privilege and the patriarchy among lots of other interesting topics highly recommends to the exclamation points thank you Fiona this kind of feedback really G. suite on an ice I say so I started linking these comments on our website or deep tissue cultures dot com so if you don’t select a choice in the show or on the home page let people know that you’re testing let me know that you’re not saying you can email the official cultures at G. email dot com or you know get in touch in any of these ways just love to hear from you end up to hear about what’s working and what you want to hear more of really interested in constructive feedback because I want this show to be useful it’s not just me making friends on the internet but just sometimes is felt like for the past couple of years this is not a bad thing for an introvert it’s the past one of the best places to meet you nice friends it’s the internat but it’s also quite a scary place because I know you’re dying for an up to yes the last time I checked the United States I stood Belgium for the top spot in our listener league table I know him ever should be next so just how low term Merican France and so glad that you’re listening it’s great to have you as well right suit and other seat back I had recently the listener explains that they find themselves listening to the cast I’m not so grounds but then some saying the gases said Coles something to mind for me and I start talking about it but because I tend not to want to take up too much space and I worry that I’m talking too much and you don’t need me to tell you I go off on tangents because I’m trying to avoid all of the last we tend to spade three what I’m saying you know the anecdote that I’m saying because she she off the cuff fits on plans in the discussion and I just wanna get back to the gas as soon as possible and hopefully points off each other as a conversation but the Leicester told me it seems that I have interesting stuff to say and they wanted to hear more of thought so boys Adair are you can’t not today you’re gonna get so much she’ll ask me never to cheat again this made me take a bit of pause because AVC wasn’t always primarily an interview show a lot of you may have just joined in the past couple of years she may not have bothered going box three the archive about the salutes you know this is an absolute a hundred seventeen so there’s been a lot over the past few years so making this mostly pay visits she being an interview show as more of a default during the pandemic before then I was interviewing people and person but I eat me and a lot of episodes wastes doctor Andriy she’ll he was more of a co host for the first two years because even when we did interview people we did together once the lock signs began in March twenty twenty certainly here in the U. K. Andries workloads as a senior lecturer at the university completely explodes I suppose just set the notes T. any of he he he might as Shane dot urine university staff had an easy ride if things when working from home had to happen I can tell you as a witness that he is already far too heavy workloads more than doubled and wastes no support only pressure from his employer and at the time when the freshman until Oct nine there were strike actions happening so these people already had a lock is good well last but because of this global catastrophe that was unfolding people for the most part I think really knuckled sign and did what they could for their students and just try to keep themselves afloat as I was planning notes for this recording beginning back in March of twenty twenty two eighty so two years later there is ongoing strike action from the university and colleges union in the United Kingdom and it’s just this one as she waits on the list of harmful practices that the unions fighting against so I’m not going to go into details of that case it’s not my fight but it’s a fight that I support and I have solidarity for I didn’t survive thought system I am a consultation thought system and I have the utmost empathy and sympathy for anyone who’s in the fray and it’s going straight at the moment just sort of laying out some information and it’s just flashing a bit more contacts about this business of the show because this is really what we’re talking about right now it’s just a bit of a a spike off the narrative but back to this notion of taking up space and I’m sure it was in an episode of I lay waste to me that you mail which focused site really loves become recall which apps Suter hit when she was talking to you but she and her cast we’re talking about taking up the space which is quite a feminist auction on its auction I’ve been hearing about it for years as well on the guilty feminist podcast but this time it was pointed out right not to take up space is to make space and by default that’s what making a podcast does you know it just comes to my mind it might not even have been highway it might have been on a podcast colds toxic leadership where somebody said test it was one of those to depose accent podcasts that I highly recommend to greet you if you’re struggling with your mental health in any way or any of that they’re very pro dating without sort of stuff and having no she invited you know so I I really recommend them but anyway it was one of those where somebody like this and I’ve never really heard that before where she take up space means you’re making space yes and not speech you taking up you can share with people and I think that by default that’s what making a podcast does you make space for yourself you know you take up some space sorry there on unique space and you know especially when you invite other people on it and I think people have sent this to me before and I don’t think I took enough notice of it but when you have guests on your podcast it means that you share that space that you take can you know when I sank and more recently in the past couple of years and giving more of that space over to other people I have probably for call on the bed it by myself and I’ve hidden behind not quite a lot you know where I’m going to get this great person they have lots of stuff to say and I’m never going to get me I’m a great person I have stuff to say it’s very narcissistic but in a way it’s cherry you know I got stuff to say I’ve got ideas and might bring in I started the podcast because I had compiled loads of academic work and research on these areas of arts and culture and things like costs and have a lot to say about them but %HESITATION so %HESITATION because my interests are much more wide ranging than just this specific research interests I how does the market dynamic and I wanted to explore those and start to demonstrate hi you know the things that we T. two ladder box things and categorize salmon institutionalize some eyes and always helpful and it’s probably not a bad idea she made a surprise things be open mind debts you know and to recognize that there should be a joyous and dots borders don’t have to be fixed I can be perforated they can the lands and melds and slip and slide and all those sorts of analogies all of this is related to a more general time of introspection for me I feel that I’ve come a long way mentally and the past few months and years on a freak and focus and determination I’m feeling clearer on what I want to stay with my life and I’ve been taking action towards trying to make that happen so it’s hard to pinpoint exactly when this began because all our lives were in a state of the coming but I’d say that it’s rooted in a decision I made it and summer twenty twenty one so nearly a year ago from recording this I’m not was to take a break from my volunteer work with an incredible charity here in the north east of England’s cold action language whose mission is to supply free English lessons to displaced people seeking asylum anti have refugee status in the U. K. I had been a volunteer teaching and administrative assistants with them for three and a half years of dot points it’s interesting because even sense writing these notes and my user rang up by eight which is a great north English word my user rang I learned that one in Lancaster I’ve been monitoring it bites whether to join this charities action finding mission their parent charities team for the great north run this year it since September it’s how it’s currently is the world’s biggest half marathon I mean it’s the same size as any other half marathon because to half marathon but it’s a big deal Andrea my partner he is often on the show he is a massive fan he’s run it twice now he ran it last year he loves a half marathon he really does he got on and the pilots for this year and good friend of mine who told me she really wanted to do it again and she really wanted to work on our fitness and use it as an excuse to work on our fitness again I told her bite the charity place since the auction fine dition still highs and she’d gotten touch with them straight away and I am still undecided I mean I think it’s something I really want to date but it’s more money up front something I’m quite anxious about it and then probably resourcing up anyway it’s gone in a massive tangent there it’s a charity that’s very much and my heart recording this as well when the war is that Russia has started in Ukraine as ranching and things are terrible I think it’s broke broader awareness of what’s going on waste displaced people people who are displaced by violence and war in their home country and this is something I’ve cared about it for a really long time I will point out that I am frustrated that there are a lot of people you only seem to care now that it’s happening to white people and our European neighbours but this has been actively happening for a really long time and a lot of other places on our countries have a lot to do with fact you know in middle eastern countries and north African countries and some sites American countries is vile you know the global seis the global north has a lot to answer for but now that some saying there’s a crisis in the global Norse on its people who look more like me stocks and I initiate you know that’s something that’s bothering me a lot and so you know it’s on my mind that I want to help this charity so in some way that has been doing really incredible work for years with people from all over and I always felt that with the language assistance you know and that just a few hours a week I used today and three o’clock trying to reaching lessons of raising him and it was tiring and I was quite dependable and I think I felt really guilty because hello I’m Noah my freelance work really seriously dried up over the whole lock sign and it has not recovered I’m still in a really privileged position compared to so many people so I think I felt a lot of guilt by thought for a long time and I think I was volunteering for a long time because I felt guilty and I wasn’t ready taking enough time to address my own health problems you know when I was assisting with language classes you know I really enjoyed the administrative stuff because I used to help people and roll and it was fun because there were times when I would get to use a bit of my Spanish I have a little bit of Spanish I’m a bite sized in spots but things like in the registration form arts just stuff like your age where you went to school so in your name stuff like that those are the sorts of basic things I can say and are saying enough that it can be communicable you know I always felt that that wasn’t much of a contribution in the grand scheme of things it’s not it’s peddling upholding human rights and attaining social justice are major concerns for me and I feel rather helpless ending anything up by any of those things just a bite all of the time I mean the thing I do the most as I have my M. P. tortured my member of parliament held her up Sydney tortured I’m never done right into her butt stuff I’m not sure where my skills Larry I am not skills that’s going in doing demonstrations in the city centre I just have so much social lines already and sensory overstimulation dot com briefly cope with those sorts of situations even when they’re very far he piled but my goodness I can write a letter so that’s just where my skills lie and you know the revelation needs people of all kinds I think if you doing some saying that’s the saying is net I always felt the exclusivist date a little bit of saying the brigade dot then everything would have praise you know just from everybody taken a tiny bit about her then it would have praise for most people and I realized then that the weed tiny bet IV stand was a lot more than many other states maybe in their whole lives I’m not to sin mean anything special and I am absolutely not passing judgment on anyone I’m just telling a blunt trace you know I’m not somebody who has a dose of money I don’t have expendable income so it’s difficult for me to just give money to charity at the moment but when I had free time I mocked and then I did some hang on it was something I felt able to day in time I felt able to cast on there a lot of people he had more time than that and don’t give it or if they have better social skills and I day and don’t use them and so what I’m not that’s not a judgment I’m not saying you should be ashamed absolutely not no it’s a great choice and I think being brutally honest was I doing what I did it’s because I felt guilty because I felt she M. at being a working class person he wrote he was no longer able to work and find themselves unable to work and structures such environments you I think I pulled back a bit because I had to address that stuff and that is what I’ve been doing a lot of in the past few months you know some I’m not passing judgment on any of us I told nobody should be carrying any shame about that because life is difficult and we never know what he’s going to be surrounded us next I mean I get a bit frustrated when I hear or I read people saying I wish I could see some saying that even they never asked if we find something that day to day or maybe they’ll offer a prayer and the only acceptable response a lot is and I cook from sister Michael and Derry girls sure what could be done today even if it feels menace skill there is some saying that each of us can J. and I feel like it’s I suppose it’s quite a socialist idea that if we all pitch in a tiny bit then I’ll be Daddy’s say Cassell told mark okay John I think that’s probably that’s a severity S. nous when we’ve got so many billionaires and multi millionaires in the worlds of all the money and the rest of us have so little of the rest of the money it’s a tricky one last night you know I mean if they give a lot that’s still small change for them you know so I recognized I hope you know what I mean and that the very least you know it’s coming from a good place coming from a caring place even if I’m searching I am saying in what became difficult for me by following straight on this decisive action you know and I I think it was decisive action and then I’ll explain why ticket shortly you know and if the more detailed but also you know it was last August when the Taliban control of Afghanistan and I mean I do even perceive that today take control said the United States hundred box of them I don’t know where the line is there but the role lose extra people who were fleeing for their C. Este ends you know it was really tough to stand by the decision I had already managed a top point because the language lessons they’re not just a by learning English it’s a bite community it’s about getting to grips with different accents and I’m quite useful for that having a different accent and a place where actually I mean to be honest %HESITATION somebody nice memories of my volunteer worker a lot of the students responding to me while because they could understand me better than they could understand locals announced people with the Geordie accents I get an extra like I’m an alien over here all the time because people don’t understand what I’m saying and I try and unseat properly the way I am staying here I try and separate every word and I speak slowly when I’m in bustle speed up and I’ll talk but more like this but when I’m here in England which is where I am all the time at the minute right do you tend to speak so late because you even English people don’t always understand that’s people with the same language so imagine what it’s like for people here Sharon and Jack come trade will have maybe had to fight to get into a country where the B. a better safer than other countries where they are supposed to be C. S. ions they don’t know the language you know it’s terrifying it’s so scary I mean it’s stressful enough having a different accents but speaking the language you know it’s so unimaginably tough and for a lot of people it was just fine tonight the classes were but finding out how things work culturally socially and practically unseen friendly faces and making new friends and nothing ever previous from trauma and being able to laugh and smile and find joy and comfort for me beat it might have been only those couple of hours a week and the class I’m serious you know people are have been tough tough times you know I met people he had been trafficked I met people who you call traversed desert’s and sees check out there you young man for him it was killer be killed people have gone through awful awful sayings and then to to be able to turn up to a class and feel pride in yourself when you’ve worked really hard and you’ve done well and you’re missing your family desperately and you may be stuck in the shop the hotel room and you’re not allowed to work and you you get these few times a week you have to level for a whole week and everything’s really expensive and you don’t know who to ask for the fate that you might needs everything’s on familiar she I mean it’s so it’s so scary you know so I thought I did I felt a lot of guilds arenas for quite awhile that Justin Howell St I mean what I decided to Jay was I felt like I was out in crocs waste my mental well being you know I feel like I’ve done really well and a lot of the pandemic was probably strangely good for me because it meant that I could see a star in a lot of stuff that was dragging on and on and on you know and I was getting and trace of salts and intrusive memories you know I was diagnosed with PTSD and I had some treatment for last year which I had to guess rich hardy and I did it online it was typing who’s all three instant messaging rather than speaking which was actually quite interesting for me because I find that because I’m a better writer than I am a speaker maybe you notice the difference between when I’m resting like I am right night and when I’m reading notes you if I go off piste it’s going to be a bit more all over the place sun pausing in things anyway so I felt really fortunate to have had that opportunity and I took an opportunity and grasped it with both hands because I’m so determined to be while and to make a proper laughing and I really need to sort myself or you know I’m in my late thirties I’m too young to wallow I’m too young we just waste away you know and I I love doing this podcast if I could make a joke out of doing this sort of four K. weights but at the moment it’s from the kindness of a few friends that I get anything from other told you that’s quite tough actually when you work really hard on it and you know it’s your B. F. A. N. G. in archer AT and t’s Jerry thanks for it the work so hard in it and not really people aren’t necessary people are taking notice and I mean it’s it’s hard to feel worse and not when you don’t know really competing rights but you’re on platforms that are dominated by people who have millions of tiny notes you know I am not a purple icing there and I’m being serious when I say that user celebrity podcasts that have millions of tiny notes there’s no way I can ever dream T. at T. M. dot I barely have a hundreds die notes and every episodes the weekend comes sites but on the C. every individual lesson I appreciate I appreciate yeah I appreciate you hearing less and I’m sticking with made it’s a really important to get that perspective that the quality really matters you know so I’m trying my best with it but I don’t I just can’t make a living off of our toll toll so you know I need to be realistic about that and in my heart of hearts I’m a writer and so that’s what I’ve been focusing on the past while and I think I moved away from seeing my volunteering because I just needed to be at my house really finally over the finish line and complete that really hard work of getting well well enough to work you know in a structured workplace again as well as I think to really make a concerted effort at applying for jobs but I think I’m being more specific and we’re in the Pine C. salute we’ll get on to that sort of thing night yes I’ve been applying the fairly solidly for things for a few months night but of course keeping the podcast going to you so you might be aware if you’re a regular listener you might be aware that in January I had an obsolete just floods of recordings he did lose your recordings I participated and the slacks radio residency at new bridge project acts here in new castle and I made three recordings for that and everybody involved was really kind enough to see not me use the field recordings of those four podcast episodes you know when one of them in particular was you know more than twice as long as I can actually fit into their residency slots so that was really great to have those episodes coming out of that too so that meant you know three episodes which is six weeks for me because it’s every other weapons thank you know so I had everything shed jobs right at the end of April the comment in January I call really quite burnt diets I think it was just a lot of talking to strangers you know it was a lot of hustling and it was a lot of very quickly getting up to speed with people I’ve never spoken to before or you know hadn’t spoken to for a long time or I knew who they were and they didn’t know me I think the first recording I did J. for it was actually with a good friends with tech he you might no no I thought definitely helped but all the other recordings a date we’re based people he either had never spoken to before we actually recorded it Bower he I knew me and they probably would vaguely recognize me but not necessarily so anyway so after such a busy January I struggle to know what to do with myself in February I just knew that I was burnt site and I had a bit of grace from the podcast say turns matchmaker dot FM office as a safe and actively applying for jobs and not actually getting anywhere and I find it tough ways little money coming in to know what to focus on next because I’ve cults who many projects that are partially done there at all at various stages I just couldn’t decide right what should I jump and see again what should I fire up what should I try to complete I just find it really difficult to decide because you know I had all these questions such as what has the best chance of being published and if it gets published well it’s L. O. R. what can I focus on the best way to make and it means ten and trusts and what might actually purchase some income you know if I managed to write a back kind of get it with the more popular press and then I’ll actually get some royalties for something of published quite a lot of last year not just with charities but I was volunteering my time see quite a few different things and I have been doing that for years and I think I called tip pooling as well where I was I’ve just become really wary of working for freight I’m tired of that I am worst a lot hello two kids and I’m a really hard conscientious worker never mind all that expertise and experience I can bring to some saying and I’m so tired of working for free I am not independently while Sadie and anyway he I have been freeloading off my partner for five years all of these anxieties came to a head for me N. late January early February this year and I resolved to see really several of the sites I perked up a bit when I reached out to my very dear friend John H. he spoke to me for episode seventy one up by eight PM update projects please see check this site if you haven’t already it’s a really lovely episode again about like Fiona she was my longest serving friends we’ve known each other for twenty years twenty five years well Michael others realize how old I am we’ve got a really good reporter probably too good because you know we make virgin that he was speaking in ways that no one else will understand because you know teenage girls the attack on it it’s a really lovely episodes yeah we had to catch up when I was on my own for a few days you know it was a really fun catch up and Joe told me up by an exhibition she was pulling together appoint neon house Lakhani’s night I’m not gonna go through explaining what all this is because I’ve had some links in the show notes where you can find out more about your wanna and bending glass her expression at you know that’ll explain if you’re interested they’ll explain what house okay says and why this is a big deal as we talked I became increasingly fascinated by everything she was telling me in particular the history of neon thank god for me sort of a neon before and it’s on the C. it’s so fascinating and I and I really want to share what you the research that I’ve done in this no I thought as well as the old Ulster television studios and archives you were talking and talking about the S. I was getting really really interested and having ideas about it and said you asked me if I’d be interested in writing something and I agree to this before I was even offered a faith because it was just so interesting which is probably partly by a don’t get paid enough for staff because I’m just like yes science grant that step you but I just had to know more about this site I just caught the bug you know I was a betting inspired by another saying I’d caught a bug for in the house now Conaway told I was really inspired by the kites taxed written by Amy Corey for demand Hearst’s major exhibition treasures from the wreck of the unbelievable and I suggested writing a small exhibition guides that we teach her three depending glass show and the works an engagement with the works not explain them but just engage with any of the adjacent to them you while also giving just some information that might be useful might be enlightening might be interesting and it was intended to be a company rather than prescribed right Texas what this means and this is how you should feel the protests in the next room you should feel less and no I’m not interested in that kind of art writing I I wanted to be a J. Simba Staten Joe very kindly said that she considered me to be one of the artists and that this was one of the pieces of work in the exhibition you know and I was really excited about that I so enjoy the process of researching and writing they sit just fired me up completely and then it gives me that excitement for engaging with arch technology crossed that the treasures exhibition had done nearly five years ago so as I came to a head more opportunities to apply for camera I feel like we’re not done with neon it’s time of recording this there’s actually still quite a bit today because you know that thing that I was commissioned to J. it’s all done but you know I was also writing an essay about that and then I could abandon because all this other stuff kept coming up and %HESITATION I haven’t as yet managed to the get back to it because these other things became urgent where is the neon is no I in and trust that I want today something less you know so it’s not tricky thing not freelancers thing as well I’ve been offered money to do that S. or their socks all to play for and they have to take priority just because I ain’t got no money coming in so I had some interactions that I actually felt finer points because they ruled things alright and I started to feel more like thoughts of bites things I was applying for you know there were a few things I applied for and I knew he didn’t meet the criteria and certainly not in the way that the organization was intending so I knew I was a wild cards you know I it was just one of those right just so you know what you just have to try because you’re not in it you can’t win it it was one of those where you one hundred percent won’t get tested you don’t apply for it and it could be life changing if you didn’t get it so there’s no reason not to try so I’ve been working under that other change for quite awhile I was getting projections for the so we’re not a surprise and some of them were written very nicely and not actually always hopes when you any char person as naxal human I’m not just an automated message that same year I didn’t get the job can give you feedback by when it’s not just humans saying really appreciate you taking the time to research and you’re right so possibly it by you’re interested in this job you know we can’t sure yet this year this time but you know we hope you’ll apply for stuff again you know that kind of thing is just really meaningful to acknowledge that somebody took time out of their life to really research and he considers and why they’d be a great employee for you you know and I think that needs to happen more and I’m ready done let’s all these places that just go well we had you know so many applicants will what does that mean did you have fifty or did you have two hundred and fifty because what’s too many worst top line where you’re not going to give somebody feedback you know you’re not gonna let me know that I’ve been knocked out of the running by an algorithm and not a human type of buyer a lot of my anxiety then in February was really in deciding again what to do next and knowing that certain things couldn’t happen actually helps clear the fog I was like well I tried okay so I’m done I I did the best I could do there it’s no go so that’s actually rose something like that’s gates I can try and focus new it’s still something all right second nine narrow the focus on to something that might work and spurred on by these few redactions I the rush died in up to cation C. arts council England’s developing your creative practice grounds apart which I’m waiting to hear even when this episode really says I still want her Jack so you it’s a ten week process to me unless I just feel really places myself for just getting in because just taking one of these applications just getting it through the ground TM submission system it’s nothing short of combative so anyone who just gets three dot sight system and gets through the eligibility checks your hero because it’s tough it’s really tough they don’t make it easy for people even when you’re as prepared as you can possibly be that’s a really painful very long process you know there’s a lot of job application site and for and it’s you may be spending ages fashion are your documents and stuff but then the actual submission ace to stop the not so loud and and then BAM twenty minutes grounds capitate race this was a whole morning you starting quite early in the morning and you know and finishing quietly at all on the day before because you know that cut off is at nine and I just thought what if what if so I did that the day before it’s not an easy process today so I just thought well up to the chief minister south just having made any supplication and is something to be proud of this year you know because I find the thought to my document when I A. I tried to design a proposal for a project grounds and that’s a much Baker grounds and it’s a much more unwieldy based I was aiming to suppress that early in twenty twenty one and the process of it just utterly broke me I thought I was really prepared I’ve been the weapon are shite read all the guidance I’ve done all the stuff you know as much as I did prepare for it I was not prepared for hits you may as well the flung me against a wall on the site but I was mentally prepared for this time I knew what to expect and it’s a much smaller grounds it’s a much smaller for me still a massive confusing for me and it’s not user friendly I had a better idea of what to expect and I was able to work at all right now I didn’t panic you know it’s definitely better to try the smaller funds and it’s a fun that’s just if I may need to follow up being hi I work rather than use something I’m not necessarily in the right head space for because I think I had a really solid project idea but I don’t think I was in the right head space to manage such a thing you know and be the producer of fat so preparing money create a practice application also then fed into another opportunity came up and it meant that I had a clear project in mind to propose you know it’s old building into something so even if I’m hoping even if all of that work comes to more rejection I think I’ve got a much more solid idea of where to go when a specific project that might have some traction if I can just find the right people to approach a fight it for various reasons in addition to all of stocks I unexpectedly got Nikki snow gate as a judge for a writing competition you know it’s one of those things where every now and again because I you know I’m on link then and I have some job notifications because sometimes you get some things that are you know quick apply and it’s good to be visible on a on not professional social media I gas and you know get some notifications and then I’ll go for this saying really not expecting to get anything out of it because maybe they’re not being serious Sir maybe they’re paying peanuts third lots of things we got small things were ever applied for the money just never hear from them again or eight to hear from them and it’s only in the United States or something like that Sir you have to be able to traveler something for your buttons set they’re going to pay and so anyway so I paid in for this judging saying you know I went to their website and I applied a check to the lights and just never expected to hear from them again you know I just told them about my cell phone how was that and you know they offered me some judging on a short story competition and I really really enjoyed it hi this side when I finished my part I mean I feel Nish my box and then I got another box really enjoyed it and then costs are passed on all my goodness the stories were so strong I enjoyed it so much people are just so creative and previous for pitting themselves quite like that I learned quite a lot that’s wild because it’s something I’ve grappled with for quite a long time is how you deliver feedback twenty system just emotionally destroy people you know I’ve had that have a lot of the time it’s a close as a recipient and as a giver market dynamics feedback you know and I think in the creative space it’s different because things are much more subjective I think what they said was just more a bite you know you’re not value adding it and the census hi many marks the sisters are sentiment anyway your because you’re judging it but it’s not and not sensitive this is how you even that you can meet the criteria it’s not a bite dots it’s hi good a story can you tell hi E. gives your characterization you know and it’s more where your feedback can say things like I call really lost in these characters I wanted to spend more time with them or not twist at the end helped me like a sucker punch thought is brilliant you know stuff stuff like that and even when something something to check a well written but you can thank well I can see the story you were trying to tile and your descriptions are really benefits and maybe if you tried yes it might facilitate thought about but you know it was just lovely to be able to write feedback that might actually help people you know in praise their writing and their story telling you know I hope I hope I hope that’s what he is doing so you know I find that the police have a right to stop I think mentally from five years of really tough learning and work up recovery from the catastrophic break dying total per night but also reflecting on experiences wase added hers in the past hearings a past introduced errors into my work and I’m forcing this is something that happens and also law or at worst Dave actually trust it on a really personal level and they haven’t said back objectively or he was a bias or in a way that’s appropriate to be the intention of the pace you know appropriate to that enterprise of what’s going on it’s just maybe a factually incorrect you know there’s I’ve had a range of those experiences as well and I just really relish that opportunity a year because the competition really demanded thanks you know I think going through all their training stuff they were very clear that you know you have to approach reading these knowing that everyone tried their best with the opposite best of intentions and they love to telling that story and he had to make them on those terms you you had to make them and not say yes so I just need to get the side of my body I hope these ideas and I just need to tallest teal and they’re learning they’re crossed you know because some of them can be quite young people and some of them are writing in a language lesson their first language and some people are picking up a hobby they’ve never been interested in or had time C. B. A. interested investor ever before or maybe they’re in their retirement and they’re trying it out as a whole but you know there’s all different things and I think there’s quite serious writers he might use the competition as a way of trying I ate some saying for publication you know there’s a really wide range of entrance to this competition so my role Kim hi he helped a man prays again it’s very subjective because different judges will read it and read the same story in a different way and come away with different things you know I like the sort of coming out of from malicious my knowledge of this genre this is my knowledge of telling a short story this is my knowledge of characterization infection this is my knowledge of language you know in my role I style was two point night where things weren’t quite working right things really were working and maybe to offer I think I think if it had some of this maybe that would help you know this is really really enjoyable and I hope I hope it’s been useful to other people I mean as indicated already or you know I often think back to when I was teaching and I read each day I can ice over whether or not I was meaning to my students when marking their where can and costs and all sorts of things and I certainly have made hiding mistakes her you know when you have a memory of something and it stings she yeah thank gosh it was stupid and I think I’m trying to just lay in and a lot of back and thank you I just need to set but the embarrassment that’s not because I don’t know higher than that not a fax it’s the person who was on the receiving end of some mistakes that I manage you know because I remember I shouldn’t referring to the a certain film and the film was set different spelling of the words and I I don’t know %HESITATION brain fart I don’t know just was getting at know your spelling is wrong you’re continually spelling this wrong and didn’t you know I I with Jackie no no I’ve done it myself and I would go that’s still just half a we check in on their internet and kissing going mods and then I would say %HESITATION it is called interesting okay that’s me I’ve learned something today but previous over worked strong aides stressed to the Max me didn’t days not I’m not student was probably very rightly felt a sense of injustice but thought that stays with me and I beat myself up too much about that sort of thing but I learned from that you know I take out a board night you stop staying of embarrassment and she M. to learn and not do that hopefully to someone ever again produced double check myself because I’m not always to be trusted so I forget things so when things are anonymized and online it is really easy to associates from the person the human being he’s at the other end of that maybe this is come up with judges before where they’ve had thought because there’s lots of messages and your feedback form about you doing all insult people because they’ve clearly had that happen quite a lot and the stories are all anonymized we don’t know he has written them or where they’re from or you know maybe there’s very clear indications that English as their first language but you cannot take that for granted because there might be people with dyslexia or learning disabilities are not very high literacy who might be writing and and party that’s happened before where it is I need of English speaker and they’ve been really really insults us judge calling I might for her crossed with the English language you know so you did something you actually have to be careful but when everything’s anonymized I think that’s absolutely right you know what I think I certainly in this scenario you know it’s really stopping in my tracks and made me think about that sort of thing you know because it’s really not on to make somebody feel bad when you when they put their heart and soul into something was really good your intention what has struck me is I’ve been reading work the authors really wanted to write and that is a major shafts from years of reading students essays where and I am grossly generalizing here because I had so many where this was not the case but a lot of the time and I think increasingly over the years I came across that students resent having to DS nine months I mean it feels it’s safe you certainly hearing about Andreas more recent experiences as well it feels is safe things have really changed since I was an undergrad but then there are people I talk to you were an undergrad before even I was and for them they thought this sort of thing was always the case so I don’t know but I feel like and your G. saying Brady astronomical tuition face has been a massive pardon this sense of entitlement that comes with a resentment of having to do any work you know so it’s not all students but it’s enough of some that it makes the job of teaching them really miserable sometimes so again that’s all part of a totally separate issue actually this whole podcast is %HESITATION lots of separate issues and I’m just rambling on about eight so %HESITATION anyone makes it thirteen S. or not I don’t know I’m not going to you know go into detail on that again I’m really happy that to talk quite some of these issues and debate some of these things with people you know and I’m very happy to soccer practice I’m always willing to stand corrected and I’m always happy to pick copycats and because I know it’s not always the case and then I think emotionally it was so draining to work and that kind of environment where you’re really undervalued ready under appreciated and people are treating you as if you’re a teacher and they haven’t got a choice to be at university and you think will happen two years ago you didn’t have a choice to be at school and your teacher didn’t have a choice and you don’t have a choice but your teacher not it’s not how it works in tertiary education you came here what I will suggest you know in case anyone listing is on either side if this student teaching soft I called to me is that your whole being pitted against each other you know and I can say this quite safely from observing it from right side night you’re all being pitted against each other as a distraction from management malpractices and you can overcome the triangulation you know which is that the term you should look up to do with abusive behaviors and you can you can overcome that by being each other’s our ice just gonna float thought this nature there make friends students the people like Cheney and leading your seminars and your seminar should not lectures they’re not your enemy and they are not da man so just lay off a bit and expose for teaching staff these young people have so much against the minority it’s not even funny I’m a geriatric millennial and I’m fine in life really toss I just feel like two sides in an economic crashes took so much away from people like me and I was one of the lucky ones he script three and two thousand eight but something a lot of one seat you’re a bit younger than me doesn’t help a lot it’s a tough road you know and the younger ones that’s not fun night there guys you know it’s we need to help each other from I was young I was an avid reader and I developed a love of writing these strengthened as H. O. quite an internal person you know something I’ve always been aware of it by myself I’ve got such a vivid imagination on a day dream a lot I referee a law you know I write stuff coming you’re hearing me rambling on about stuff no I am essentially talking to myself but doing it to microphone and then some day somebody else might hear some of it says that I’m no longer just talking to myself make content I live talking to yourself why not these loaves of reading and writing they meant that as I aged I didn’t know hype but just some way some high I just wanted to be a writer for a long time and I see nine with the wrong intentions I wanted to be a great academic and that includes writing you know it was a way that I could write notes to soften be published and have my name on things and I certainly had potential to be a great academic and I was a very good one but so much of the profession makes me miserable it is not a world that is built for me it is a world that attacks he and damages may I tell you I feel like I’m hurled against walls repeatedly it’s like spider man being thrown into brick walls constantly sort of what it feels like me I don’t find Spock with an exoskeleton that does damage every time my friend doesn’t fit into those systems and the worst of thought was and the last job I was in university of Salford’s just was the most combative she might bring in and hi my brain and my body work on the damage I’m talking about in my case was lateral I lost a lot of my cognitive abilities when I became Ellis try S. five years ago you know it’s been five years and I’ve been reflecting on this quite a bit and you know I’ve had the good fortune as well as a determination in these past few years to really get to know myself and to study what’s going on with me because it’s been a bit difficult to access a lot of medical help you know I was struggling to to really get help you know I think it’s a really awful irony that you actually have to be well enough to seek help because I couldn’t physically say the words for such a long time that I needed help and then by the time my kids a pandemic had broken nights and it wasn’t physically safe she go and see the doctor and I wasn’t urgent enough they had to deal with people S. really urgent physiological illnesses so mental health always takes a backseat that does affect you physically but not as much as you know we’re reaching concert type eighties or something like that so you take a backseat I learned my slower operating system I learned about things that help the rebels I gained insights I worked to words assessments that might help diagnose what’s going on with me not that I think they’re on the same spot their conditions that I live west another operate under an ascendant you know it’s really powerful actually to learn from other people’s experiences so I appreciate that a lot and I think that inspires me to do things like less right around but you but hopefully you know maybe there’s somebody he’s hearing that S. one text back to hear something like this N. arts and culture podcast you know because it is already it is I suppose in a very roundabout way what I’m getting at is it is the love and the passion and my specialist and trusts and everything that this podcast dissipates that has kept me going that is see if my life’s that has given me a reason to keep going and to be in a help me learn about myself and to help me learn about others and what they’re going straight and see develop even stronger empathy and I have too much capacity for empathy already so I didn’t ready you need that but it is a way of working Siri I think a lot of promotions and thinking about information and getting stopped in your tracks and being a stalker questions or something confronting you with something and sort of put before seeing across that somebody’s worked really hard to develop and you can appreciate that you know I mean all of that it just fires me often does wonders for my mental health and that’s why you know what we need to take arts and culture seriously because I can actually address the shortfall that send our under funded National Health Service here you can help us help ourselves and it has definitely helped me see see myself and to figure myself lights and to take that time to learn how to properly administer self care you know and a medical science and all and then a couple weeks lush baths and get covered in glitter and feel comfort I mean do the hard work of getting therapy of being able to say what’s going on in your arm to bring in you can tell it’s really tough hi good I am at any of the writing I don’t think it’s for me to say I got some really great feedback I get some very helpful constructive feedback I’ve had some really rubbish we could pack that just goes I don’t like that change that to something I I like I’ll be happy with even though I’m not the audience which is something I’ve heard before from an editor you know but I know that I am a creative person within and cheated if brand and I think I’ve been railing against stocks for too long and I’d love to logic to get me wrong and I’m a logical person I solve puzzles site loves your problem solving and logical argumentation but I am also really intuitive a bite me when I make sayings I’ll measure it quite vaguely angle X. right or L. and when kicking ago I wonder what I’ll taste like and goes you know so I’ll try stuff and I’ll be in shit if and I’ll go well will not work with that so %HESITATION the servers are quite get together show maybe that’ll that’ll do something let’s just say shut the door on the way you know so I have to sing so I have a real passion for learning I have a low capacity for short term memory and I think something I’ve learned really very very far he recently is that it’s more likely that I have a slow processing time which is why I struggle to hold things in my head I’m like I struggled to hold more than one thing in my head at this time because I’ve I get frustrated with myself with language learning just as an example where you’re doing listening exercises you know and I’m well in the intermediate stage Wes my parish in Spanish I am having to replay the audio over and over and over because I I can only keep it for words in my head up once I come to you the whole sentence Mungo I remember that being in a shady when I was C. G. C. S. C. French as well it just really struggled to remember you it’s not that I struggle to know how to answer necessarily it’s more I can’t remember how some things you just said to me because I have to hold all this my head because you you tryna and I mean the way you learn languages later in life when you sort of lost thought natural capacity from childhoods you tend to go through lots of translation and I try really hard to be associate especially with nine to seize your things but associate the thing with its words are a state is just another word for orange and orange is just another word for marathon for example anyway another tangent but you know it’s made me realize like when I eat the more I’m learning about female autism and you know an ADHD is that actually you know I have quick bursts of memory I just can’t hold loads of it all at one time and it snowed a pro sass so it is going in it just takes more time than it does for most people to percolate for me so you know if we have a conversation about something I’ll call me immediately forgot what we just talked about it but in a by ten years time I’ll tell you nearly word for word what you said to me because I find that ability really strange that I can remember stuff that happened years ago really wild like really acute take to your queue they too well like entry simply what hell but I can’t remember what somebody said to me this morning or yesterday it just takes awhile to process remain so it’s really important thing to learn I think and that’s why it’s good for me to have an archive and I write stuff down all the time and I think you need to learn to work or whatever PS your end and not be too anxious but not you know I think I spent a lot of time being frustrated that my brains is not working the way it used to be part of it C. H. I’m part of it is a complete burner heats up this damage you know and I think that’s one of the issues with not recognizing mental health issues and I mean when I say mental health I mean neurological well being as well as you know that depression anxiety side of things as well it does damage connection skipper can things get harmed you know there are physical repercussions cherry bar nights and it takes quite awhile to heal from those just as it would with any other kind of injury you know so psychiatric injury is just not something we know enough about your take seriously user for me I know as the saying need to take one thing at a time and focus on that and align myself to be become absorbed you know I have an ability to hyper focus I love writing when I eight hundred eight it just flows remain I mean I’m still just reading from a handwritten notes that I wrote awhile ago as Pragya arguable says quite a lot if you do any sort of writing you’re a writer and I am a writer that’s whether I’m a good writer it’s for other people than the sides but it’s something I need to say and it’s something I want to say I am motivated today at my house to overcome I suppose the quite Methodists nobility and suffering and hard work that is quite hard wired and maybe it isn’t a frivolous thing today if it gives me releasing content man and it helps me keep my mate even and gives me a night not for saying such things I can only ever be a good thing and not doing it and getting out of practice with that is not helpful CPAS compacted story set people right and center competitions not send training I’m practicing spending a good yarn there’s no more joyous things to make them a good story told well you know we evolved humans evolved to be communicative bearings all of our primate cousins are communicative in some way and look at our circle we have developed to the languages and all the different kinds of communicating that we’ve developed and we find ways of telling our stories primarily to ourselves and then sharing them with others and making about four others on our capacity to projects and to send and receive stories makes us human that’s what we are there’s nothing frivolous a bite our very existence I’ve had to really CS myself dying without because I struggled to write a lot during the pandemic and I kept on my weekly blog for us on this occasion I did a lot of very personal stuff on there people were very kind and said they appreciated high honest I was surprised thanks I’m really meant to log there are times when I thought the co and it’s usually at times when my depression Sir really quite pads you know I’ve been trying to work to make an effort to make sure I have something on the blog even if it’s just something a dog I have my our case is high hills just to have something right there to make sure that I’m reading what I’ve written and doing something with it you know it’s all part of momentum and practice and evaluation because a lot of it isn’t very good so we have to look at and go well this can be better and here’s a way sick can praise and I’m not scared so I’ve been feeling very introspective about all of this I haven’t had too much to get by the name really in general but if anybody hears status on it and if it strikes a chord I hope you find your way and I know you can find your way if you take the time to spend with yourself that’s really hard to take some of us hadn’t had a choice in the past couple of years we were faced with ourselves and that was terrifying but if you’re able to do it on your own terms and it’s you can make some time for yourself non negotiable I really hope and I believe that you can figure out whatever it is you’re majoring a bite C. R. and if you’re not and if you’re all sorted I’m so happy for you honestly I’m always ever trying to find my way with stocks you know with the job in the ground applications I’ve been writing recently I feel the same S. I’m inclining towards side I’ve been trying to read more as file you know I’m trying to find I suppose a pass back to my younger self I used to too far picks and I just in doing an English degree throughly really spoiled me for backside just lost the love of reading but adult pressures and having to read stuff for work takes the fun out of it but you know so it can take me awhile to really get into reading again anyway so I have been trying to read more they they and I read a lot of non fiction they say sexually and I really enjoy it when I do read fiction I think I just have so many banks that I’ve owned for Aitchison of movie and they read them partially because it was for teaching research I picked it up and I never at times just actually sent retired or whatever it was you I just got too many pics that I own and I have not rant so I’m just trying to work through what it costs you know it’s interesting what catches my attention I’m not I get bored Wes I’m under often my mind from as I’m reading and turned away you know I have to just be honest until this offers three things anymore I’ve really says about myself and this is an ADHD saying that I have very little to no attention for anything that I find really dry or account specialize when I’m reading you know if I can imagine it in my hand I can’t read the rating board you know if I don’t really understand the words that are being sad or if things are described in a really bonds way and just No Way here so and sometimes you know why I have good ideas by the board meeting somebody else’s writing and I think that’s quite rich but there’s also no point not being honest I’m not gonna say him him taking out west and it’s not really fair because I’m sure other people got low tide if Sir Freddie accent writing it’s just I personally find it boring I mean I’m also trying to read the books have already call because my income and bank balance plummeted to write twenty twenty one and they haven’t recovered Emmy night I just hold it up my earnings for twenty twenty one twenty two financial year and that’s actually slightly less than the year before which is really depressed hang grateful for anything that I caught but then get a NAS it’s MRC messed me might take time last summer still really upset about that because I was entitled to see a payment from them that I’d in gas and it’s annoying but you know I resorted to the trading and selling a lot of my stuff including a lot of my picks you know it was pretty hard break into a tree and in the back that I bought for it ten quid ten years ago for fifty pay but I needed to fifty P. and the space on myself more than I needed to back anymore so I just had to yeah I just figured that if I ever won the Bosnian off then I can pick them up again maybe I’ll have more money in the future somehow any of these jobs are funding applications ever work right maybe I’ll be solvent again but you know the money as I say it was just more useful than having the object collecting dust and somebody else’s choice you know so I’m trying to read what I’m willing to part ways and then hopefully hyperspace some money for the things I do struggle to pick dying and devour the way yes Terry so usually have two picks on the go the one of my bad say teachable she she the more enjoyable one and then I have another one site to so far so there’s no excuse no dine time Andre pauses things and runs off quite a lot over watch and something and it’s infuriating so I always have something to tell you for a minute while you’re just sitting there and he’s fostered a bite always have a strategy no doubt come to spare I don’t the book aside to so far this time is doing this it’s quite a dry scholarly taxed that’s oxy a bunch of separate essays by the author publisher a number of years that been pulled together as one backed up by a specific talk back I’m not so perfectly fine and it’s a really important contribution to that specific failed I’m ready bored with it and it’s just not going and I’m not caring about any of it there’s lots of claims of a generalized fears and I find that really creating after a while because I think we can really only speak for ourselves unless we have data from user base or you know monitors audience participation I just don’t think it’s useful to go in here feels less will do thank you I got really tired of reading I sent some studies are architects and stuff and I go well I saw that and I did not feel like cuts do not speak for me I think because there’s nice photo center of stuff the descriptions are a bit wishy washy and very technical and I what was it like to move through the space you know describe into it for me in your words and that’s quite boring when that doesn’t happen for me you know it’s a useful exercise and discovering what I no longer want to read because it’s also no longer what I want to write I don’t want to write like that a nice compliment that I get when I D. art writing is set people can visualize what I’m talking about you even if it’s not an accurate visualization I can see something and I can feel something because of the way of rectified it and that’s really meaningful to me that people take the time to tell me that %HESITATION somebody once told me you know I read what you said and it made me want to be there and I don’t like on the calories I mean that’s that’s really high praise that’s what you want I’ve always wanted my research to be as accessible as possible I know it hasn’t always been a lot of my PhD was very heavy theory and philosophy eight I don’t think I can’t even really tell them to a lot of thought anymore when my brain work better I could work with sos complex theories and philosophies here to do the time and memory the very ontology of film and photography and all of socks you know I’m still interested in not ten extent but I think a lot of say very dry language that could be associated but thought I should just I don’t care anymore and you know I think I’ve really lost the ability to do the really really complex stuff I mean the stuff that’s just combative frankly and then you got a lot of it lost in translation you mean translator stay amazing work but my coach the French stuff can be so dense sometimes anyway I just I don’t have the desire really to build up so that again because quite frankly bored with and I do you want to be Frank about this you know the old white European dates have been telling us how it is when it’s not that way for most people’s lived experience just Europe ready picked out I may have done because I have these bits of embossed paper that shows at one time I had a pre vent ability to develop that proved that I could J. thought that I could park west to listen for coal and %HESITATION J. R. and all them fellas and I just want another challenge you know not challenge for me as well hi di make these complex ideas accessible to the people he thanks none of that nonsense is for them because I agree are not realizing up our calories were for me I don’t want anyone effort to grow up feeling lots of surfers free pony cursed our shouldn’t even be an issue you know what I’m interested and then as a valid being my own creative critical non fiction writing that is up front about my lived experience as well as the knowledge and research that I’ve acquired over these years innocently hello bite with some might balk if you ever read it I am going to end the show notes if you wanna stop by and have a price and I’d like to see Stapp they stop and take it further you know I’d like to write it back that people might pick up in Waterstones are reputable tech shops that pay their talk sense you know there’s a few more pics and me Everton one already I contributed to others I have these other plans they have these really favored strong ideas for other ones I want to catch them all right and I’m telling you all of this because I started to feel burnt right puts a podcast there in January gosh that was a long time to get into a lot from when I mentioned this before year’s abandon the podcast night and the night time most aren’t tremendous amounts and Matt loads of fantastic people and cooperators I’m keeping it going this is not a good pie we’ve already hard winter ten rock pop we don’t needs may be joining that bandwagon no I’m not going anywhere I mean they’re not going anywhere it’s just going somewhere else I think the podcast I think in just terms of my work it’s going to take a bit more of a backseat I’m going to do more things like last not just talking out your butt stuff but when I have some other episodes later where it’s just me talking L. B. a bite something I swear you know but I’m just having a break from the hustle because having had a break since January actually yes since January to decide I had a fake Hassel holes through the autumn and then January quite another big one and it’s actually been really lovely to knocked it out for a few months and I realized that I was I was actually getting quite fossils and %HESITATION suburbanites you know when I try to force myself to get back into that fray again of email in this person that person that person or re engine timezones and talking to strangers and trying to be super clear and my communications I just got stock because I come be bothered by cuts just draining of my creative energy he and rather than just fighting up and doing it anyway for work I’m not getting paid for because whatever pitch in H. I. gaps for this I don’t take the money it doesn’t belong to me it belongs to the podcast I use it for the podcast you know when you can go and visit and have a look on the website to see what I mean by that I don’t take away H. for doing this and that’s to the small amount of money to pay me a wage anyway so I’ve been just pondering about well why is that why did I get stock when I have to do the whole soul I think it’s because that while it is fun and it often produces really great results I don’t regret a toll you might do you find a training even when it’s really enjoyable I just find it completely drains me it takes a lot of creative energy away from other pursuits time to tired to write I come thank streets and to be blunt I am class they say I am just weary of working for free you know so as grateful as I am for the P. H. NH what I get in the months is a tiny bit more than an arch worse for real living wage and the U. K. I’m a volunteer for my company because the people college I don’t earn enough from a company to pay myself any fees so it gets the money I have spread sheets very charcoal face because you know I need money for things here so I know what belongs where what’s for what and you know ABC has its own spreadsheets I keep track of what’s money belongs to yet and so this is where I’ve been able to look and see okay I have enough to replace my laptop battery that’s just started to fail or upgrade the website for example and one off payments if anybody’s interested I do record does on there as well they all out of stock you know I have to keep a slow night si mantiene the websites for its on your payments but some pieces like that you know what to keep minutes things that I need for the show your quick then I can upgrade it’s not sort of saying I have some goals on my history on site so you know you can go in the close up and see what I’m working towards if you want to drop a few credits via the A. cast supporter link D. like at the show notes I’ll be in there and if you can leave the tech to help like that would be great it all adds up and it all helps we just need to be where I am with all of this and I make use of content that I’ve already in some way produced or see what comes along with light traffic on my part you know because there are times when I’ve said to people I love you because of the on the podcast so yeah I’d love to share anime Justin arrange anything yes I need to paid after Dayton but I also need to know that you want to do it because I can’t pay anyone so you know if you really want to do it then just reach out you know it’s fine but I’m not necessarily going to chase people and I’m at the minute just not gonna be very good at bites chasing people for contents because I’ve got some you know again just be involved in public people like me talking like that but you know that’s just how it is it’s a lot doing everything for a podcast by yourself I think people may be ashamed that like a lot of other podcasters I just send the soften up magically gets done IT everything for this based I. G. every saying this is my entire P. abate IG all the things every bit of it you know so unless I’m talking to somebody else and then they’re giving me not content that’s great but also not I’m doing everything graphic design editing marketing and social media posts I’m scaling back on I really just need to scale out back while I begin some energy and try other ways of making a living because this is not made me a living this is made me a tiny bit of pocket money that’s not even mine the %HESITATION preferably I’d like to make a living with my first love of writing an example is you know I had ideas for two episodes where was intending to focus on the Iraq collectives when of the Turner prize back in December you know their collectives that actually I’ve known for a long time I visited to show and you know and I invited them on the show back in twenty nineteen when I was visiting Belfast again I invited them last August when they were nominated for the Turner prize I don’t know if they got the messages or if they’re too busy or and %HESITATION went straight into their junk mail or S. you know there’s just eleven of them and you may as well try and hurt costs I didn’t hear anything back and I didn’t GSM because other people wanted to be on the show I don’t have an employee who is chasing out stuff up it’s me I have to do it and I find that really exhausting if lots of people approach me and want to cast that’s easy for me because I have to do the hard work of getting them back John and shad chilling things on a lot of these people are in the United States so we’re working with the time difference again it’s I’m so grateful but it’s still hard work for me you just never taste any of it up you know with the right stuff I mean everybody’s very welcome anytime on the show it’s just this is a great me just not having the energy or the where with all to chase people and then I thought with a raise while you know the third just download the podcasts and including the very marvelous talk arch you know you should listen to the mom laughs and there are other ones sipping on its file you know I just don’t know if there’s anything more I can that’s because they’ve already had really interesting public discussions I don’t know if I have any questions or comments that will be in any way insightful because they’ve had really insightful public conversations their work reasons I she’s with the state of arts criticism as well as loads and loads and loads of other passion and she’s in you know this was written up by its so per plate by cara Hickey and Jan Morrow I can I will thanks affect your article in the show notes %HESITATION I think that was with adolescents I also floated by sending an absolute with them talking ites what those problems are and these are problems with art writing that a small organization like the white P. for example is also trying to address in their way you know I think some of my introspection recently has shown me that I want to confront this head on by finding are carving a way to get funded for critical writing that’s also creative and accessible and you buy critical I mean engagement from a place of knowledge and learning not criticizing which is what reviewers seem to saying very often that they’re supposed to date or that they enjoy watching or whatever angled coming at this from I’m not interested it’s and punching dying or defining what are it can be and should be very much the opposite of my kitchen I wanna throw thought to be wide open and challenge it in trouble at this month’s bill imposed by injuries which is what my scholarship has always Pena bites you know it’s been a bite thought since I was you know a fairly flat chest young PhD so I welcome and encourage anybody see join me in China about all of that and talking at all lights I want a lesson and I wanna learn I wanna ponder and I want to produce I want to just soak it all up and then I’ll have something to say you know when I have to deal the producing the editing the backing of people that’s the thing I find really tiring is just getting timings and stuff sorted out and picking people and you know especially the marketing and you for all of that stuff to happen it renders me a lot less effective as a learner and the thinker and so I’m just trying to strike more of an efficient and effective balance and do not work because I am not in a position to hire an assistant he’s brilliant to journalists thanks and love seeing all those things finds a locked at a you saying im as I am with that stuff and I want you to tell me and the email address is in the show notes you sound right to me you never go on the websites and scored his contact PH higher you hire you dang what do you want to know what do you want to hear a bites do you have any questions do you have any suggestions do you want to be a guest on the show for conversation you want to come on and tell me all about yourself and all that wonderful things in your daily are you encountering frustrations are worries and your own creative life or career I really want to know I just don’t wanna have you know a ten string email conversation about it I just want to go yeah I want to be in your show here’s the times I’m available hi but yea yet to date not time here’s a link see you then check can gauge role here let’s go that’s kind of how I want to run it because I haven’t got the energy to go this is not to come reaching out to him in this times on the digital no just tell me when you’re available tell me when you want to come just a shame that I am not as a mmhm frighteningly available for a lady I don’t know I’m so I’m gonna flow test I’m gonna attempt and you’re chasing a recommendations section I mean I’ve name dropped a bunch of stuff and this already but if you wanna subscribe to the newsletter which you candy had already visual cultures dot com I have a piece Paul Dirac’s section where I recommend a podcast and I’ve been enjoying and I’d love to start out here you did maybe talk about programs or films affects I’ve been watching reading and getting a lot are you does yeah I’m very interested in the writing in to tell me what you’re getting a lot are dogs and you’d like to share with people you can email or the visual cultures at G. mail dot com or join the mailing list and replied MSH and if you do join thought to you to make sure bring your CEFs Sanders last you know and we’re not going to do your junk or spam because some might be where a lot of mess you’re going from the initial people you signed up if you’d like to view the full versions of lots of the audio visual cultures recordings this one’s included I’ve included a photo video fest which is going to be extremely non we’re at two yards a lap in forty nine fifty not so much a browser on and there’s extra stuff in there for behind the scenes here people C. contract up stuff I ate at GL dot com forward slash AP cultures you can have a lake arts all of the tears if you join and not tear the behind the scenes here you can see all of my fumbling and all of the caps and all of me knocking into the microphone and all sorts of endearing sayings that I make you keep coming back for more and more and more adorable P. shenanigans there might even be special messages just for you there certainly is at the beginning of the video for this recording that’s happening right now only if you cut through all of this thank you for sticking with me the next episode I promise will be a boy some saying definitely S. saying not just me rambling up by things that come into my head manger Siles I would say catch you next time but I’ve started listening to me is the hell’s period power and she says that at the end of every episode so I’m going to change mine I’m not going to be precious I do not own those five words so I’m gonna change out my closing salutation and I’m gonna go back to an old favorite as ever be excellent to yourselves and each other and party on my days
hello and welcome to audio visual cultures the podcast explores different areas of moving image and audio based production with me Paul up there I'm delighted to be speaking this time with John Bottcher of mercury theater podcast and audio drama anthology of stories written and directed by John we'll be talking about those aspects as well as sign design and working with voice actors as well as the storytelling process for thirty minute standalone dramas across different genres huge thanks to our listeners and our marvelous patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures if you would like to see the full video recording of my chat with John sign up to our behind the scenes here your support means I can make continual improvement state issue and it gives me such a basic knowing the work is being acknowledged and valued and appreciated another way to help is sharing this episode with your friends and spacing Assabet on social media thank you so much and enjoy this episode John Thatcher it is great to me she I am really looking forward to learning more about mercury theater podcast but first of all I have very warm welcome to the official cultures I feel the heat from here even though we have the the snow coming soon it is nice to be warmly welcomed I appreciate that's nice cast John hi are you to say and where but sorry I am fantastic and partially because I live in North Carolina and the United States of America we succeeded we won right but now it's a it's a beautiful location like %HESITATION I'm in the the Blue Ridge mountains so I get the the view of the mountains and we're about to get snow like I said and it's just I really like I've lived all over the US and I finally found somewhere that I can call home %HESITATION so nice to hear the snowflake a not so nice right to stars I've interviewed a few audio drama producers before and that's something I'm really enjoying learning a lot more bites so it's pretty great to have you on you know I've been learning a lot of fights the processes of writing audio dramas and the processes of directing them and that in particular I've been really enjoying expanding my knowledge on sign design I think that's a really fascinating part of this I've got a background in some studies and found analysis and that is her relation and not subject area is sign design focusing on audience Humm has such a lovely way of learning much more about it you know so that's something I would love to get in to it he later but can I just firstly Askey state campus and move if you give us some details about each mercury theater podcast and your work making it absolutely it's one of one of my favorite topics of all time so I I'm not not shy mercury theater podcast is an anthological audio drama so anthology meaning that every episode in and of itself is a story so your no matter where you start listening in mercury theater podcast you can start one that I made last month or one that I made last year and you're going to get just as much out of it as anybody else would because the story is depending on the episode it might be thirty minutes long and you start the story in the beginning of the episode and eat the story ends at the end of the by mercury theater podcast is completely done by us and the only exception is I get I get my sound effects from online for the most part but I just got myself a microphone so that I can make some of the some of the Foley artistry and I can do that on my own and it's a nice shot gun Mike can I get so ecstatic about some of the equipment that we buy and mercury theater podcast is completely done remotely in their heads I'll be over here and we'll meet on discord and we'll watch the the other actors and will recorder selves individually and will go through the episode so we'll spend a couple hours recording an episode and because were on discord and were able to record in real time that makes it so it's a much better final product because most of acting is reacting and with such a way that a lot of audio dramas are created they're not done as much in response they're just reading their lines and then they're sending in all of their lines and then somebody has to chop it up and then they get certain it's cohesive as much as possible you know one might have more of a route read and then another one might have more of a an emphatic read so you're having these different conversations that yes they work on paper but they don't actually work in feeling like it's a conversation so with discord it makes it so that I'm able to have everybody will react to one another and it makes for a much better final product if if I don't say so myself in there pretty crisp I have to say I've been listening and the sign is really crashed at you've got different points of audition you've got mace ments coming straight you've got different locations changing locations while people are made things very spaces and having cover and you can really pick up really well so he asked to hang off so you mentioned television or movies and the sound design of that it's very much the same process but as an audio drama the listener only has the ability to base it off of dialogue and sound effects and there is no visual component and that has some drawbacks but at the same time it gives a lot more freedom on my end and on the listeners and I've been finding this to be pretty consistent thing with books for instance so you might read the Harry potter books are you might read the lord of the rings Bucks or anybody and then you watch the movie adaptation of that what you read and once it goes on television on the screen then it confines what your imagination has because you see it you hear it and you know at that point really only you can just imagine what it smells like I guess at that point but with audio drama you don't have to worry about so much the the visual element because the listener gets to design what that circumstance looks like so they're imagination takes another step that they would be able to in a book but they have the sound design that helps them get drawn into the circumstance but they can build whatever else elements yeah and that the love they sing as well as you can decide what people look like because I think with some in television for example diversity can be a big issue and saying C. seventy and when it's full he says and it signed a fax you can imagine more %HESITATION what way will select for example yes so I am actually in the process of auditioning for another series that I'm making but in the process I'm realizing these people have faces right but they only have faces to me as somebody who's working with them now the listener will be able to ultimately listen to the this series and they can figure out whether she has blonde hair or you know if she has her at all there all these different elements that people can design for themselves but with working with social media I'm finding that it's requiring me to get some that visual elements right so I'll have the series but also promote the actors themselves so that might be a little bit disheartened because I mean how many podcasts do you listen to and you just assume what they'll look like or or radio show I don't know if you've ever heard the term a show prairie home companion but that was a show that was on in P. are all the time only every %HESITATION Saturday night right and I've listened to it and I create a mental image of what the main actor garrison Keillor looks like and then I saw a book that he had written on my side the cover photo and I was like oh no it's incredibly disappointed that's the first thing that was the glass shattering moment for me and I was like but it didn't remove that magic of what they are accomplishing it just's an obstacle there is in merry he didn't expect that fiesta go without voice or something we'll also and if I spent a couple years listening to him and I didn't have a face to make a an actual picture then it's it's different but yeah you do the same with a bunch of voice actor it's more with other podcasts and then you realize what they look like then and it kind of breaks that that image for you but you can go back to imagining whatever it is that you wanted them to look like especially as voice actors because they are after all acting in C. mentioned it's an anthology series so every story Stephan mangy find that real challenge writing a different type of story every time no both those are all of that is there are benefits to writing an anthology and that if I just feel like writing something if I just come up with an idea I can make it into an audio drama and I don't have to worry about it lasting a whole season or multiple seasons I can write something and it be thirty pages long and then once that's done it's done so I can have this whole whole process of of going through the wanting to make something to making it putting out there and then going back to something else and if I look at all of I probably have ten different episodes that are in the works of being written right now but I might come up with an idea tonight and then write an entire episode before I put any of those other ten out because it's something that I can do whenever I want to but the drawbacks there are drawbacks to writing an anthology in that the listener can get engaged with the storyline for that thirty minutes of an episode by day you don't feel attached to that character or any of those characters right so I'm in the process of creating a series that isn't a logical you can listen to episode one two three four five and on on and then every episode you don't know this but you're becoming more attached to the characters and then when a character does something that you disagree with you can be disappointed it with that person right but with an anthology and only thirty minutes minutes investment your not as inclined to be disappointed so there are drawbacks to writing an anthology but it's certainly not the ability or the inability to come up with more stories I'm not short on content it's just a I'm short on time that's what I'm short on answers saying do you think it's a grind for experimentation because maybe more so so than in traditional tax publishing you have a bit of the way to the I suppose make some mistakes or things if you realize that things maybe don't work so well and then you can figure out how to you it just sayings or tweak things or you think will my strength sinus pain this is part of it these are parts where right I need to hone my skills in these parts you know it's different aspects of that you do you think that you have that freedom of experimentation a bit more if I didn't listeners don't go back to episode one of mercury theater podcast so I've actually been referring to mercury theater podcast as my playground and I can do that experimentation at first I didn't know what I was doing at all I really just wanted to get into voice acting and I figured making a podcast would be an opportunity to do that and if any listeners have been have listened to mercury theater podcast all knows that you probably don't even recognize my voice at all and is because I'm not on here as much and the reason why is because I found that my passions actually were more in tune with the stuff that I wanted to pawn off on other people like the directing and the writing and the sound design all of these things that I got really excited about and the voice acting is something that you know I will make an appearance every so often I'm kind of like I refer to myself as sometimes the the Stan Lee of audio drama in the end and I'll show up every so often yeah the experimentation is something that if it wasn't for experimentation I certainly wouldn't be where I am now and working on a series as well and because I've been able to experiment with mercury theater podcast I can find out what my capacity is what I can and cannot do now I can put this into an audio drama series and have have it so that you're not going to have a really big difference between episode one and episode three which with mercury theater podcast you would be able to notice the night and day difference between episode one and episode three but between the episodes my ten and thirteen there isn't as much of a of a jump because I'm down I'm now to the point where I can hone my skills you mentioned there that because you try and keep them quite tight to thirty minutes and they're different story every time there's not necessarily that much space to flush out your characters it's not something you work on with the voice actors a senior you you write what needs to happen for your lost and to they help you flashlight the characterizations but Mario I did some work for you the characters aren't incredibly fleshed out but with the episodes that have fewer characters you can get to you understand their reasoning more so I have an episode that I'm recording tomorrow that it's just two people and those two people you get to understand where they stand with their perspectives right and there's an episode of one that I actually am I'm still very proud of one of the first ones that I was really proud of was D. N. for Denver International Airport and that was a really fun one and the reason why one of the reasons why is because there are essentially two characters and one leads the other one and explains a bunch of stuff and you get to understand what what's going on so with the voice actors will do essentially a cold read and get to find out what their characters are doing what they're trying to accomplish but as I don't go so far as to say okay this is who your character is this is your motivation not all the time so now there are certain times when I will say for a certain scene okay so your character is being elusive so be elusive but at the same time like telling whatever right so it's seen my scene at that point but where is the series and this is one of the most exciting parts about making the other series is that we'll go through the entire first season and everybody will understand who their character is and what their goal is and you know they'll have those character arcs that I I don't have the ability to with the anthology if you're enjoying the show and would like more information straight to your inbox head over to audio visual culture style wordpress dot com linked in the show notes and sign up to our mailing list I was wondering as well abrasion on rent the kids from the episodes I've listened to you and then scrolling dying three a lot of them you're touching on a lot of different genres I think you know there's some crime there's mystery there's smithy thriller there's historical drama you know there's lots of different kinds of stories being told is it again an exploration of what's your water the possibilities of genre and what you can accomplish and not in thirty minutes you know what how do you feel about that so for me I really enjoyed being able to do that because it is whatever it is that I I want to at the present time but with you know a lot of anthologies they'll stay thematic rain so they might have a horror theme so all of the stories are different but they still fall on that or aspect same with with any theme for an anthology but with mercury theater podcast it's just completely different every time and some more listeners might not love an episode right but they'll be able to skip off to the next episode and really enjoyed that episode now for me I'm just writing whatever comes to my mind right so I'm using this again as my playground and getting familiar with the process but at the same time also figuring out what it is that I enjoy writing and I do have some very old time radio investigation kind of episodes or some you know like you said there are all these different themes bye I'm finding that I enjoy a certain type of writing but at the same time I'm not held to like I would you can't put mercury theater podcast in a box that's one of the things that I like about it but the same time I know that there are probably listeners who listen to the F. as in not knowing what they're going to get they find that they're not as inclined to listen to the next episode I mean at the end of the day it's my podcast and that is the bottom line of indie podcasting is I can do whatever I want that's the point of this yeah that's really really interesting because I don't know how much freedom writers here maybe in more industrial settings in terms of writing for media and somebody so for television example there may be just hired they have to do it I have to J. M. so it's really ready and saying that you've called freedom to make this decisions but also it's the creative impulse really I think is what you're exploring as well and also from the from the sound designer perspective I'm actually giving myself an extra challenge as opposed to making it somatic say for instance television show so %HESITATION have you seen the show house no but I know of it okay and I just picked house out of it as in no reason there is for instance they have their set right at the studio they have their status and then they can go there are several different levels to the set but how much it costs to actually produce it is much lower because they only have to work within that set right not every so often they'll go off location and then go do something else but that's a very far and few between but with you know to a much smaller extent with sound design so with sound design I have to create a scene right for the listener so I might have like birds chirping in this outdoor setting but I'm I also have another setting where there is a vacuum cleaner running in and I have all these different sound effects but if I have a series then I don't have to work so much on the bird sound effects I can just work on the vacuum cleaner sound effects because every so often you're going to run into that vacuum cleaner like as you're going through I'm just again pulling things out of the hat but that sound is lying is much much more freeing with mercury theater podcast but it's also something that you have to do a lot more investigation to get those sound effects and everything and that's one of the things that I'm excited and and I also bummed about with universe twenty five the upcoming series is that I I can have some consistency and I don't have to draw from all of these different places for all of the sound effects it's going to be something that there's going to be this it's the matic I know I totally just ramble there but you know it was great because %HESITATION that's the sort of thing I mean really open to learn about it actually because when you're when you're saying that I think especially with the location changes because I listen to your most recent episode and it's a bit of a murder mystery and Sam you know their investigators Sir there's that scene where two investigators I think are having a conversation as they walked through a corridor so it's quite accurately and there's actually six steps and then they answer the office of another character and then suddenly date signed as much more soft and there's no wacko anymore you know so it's small things like that help you imagine they're setting and help you visualize right the kind of the location you know as you're you're not saying very clunky dialogue of going well let's just go into this room nice LA and adding the signed a fax do you got for you which is a very show don't tell thing and send them that as well so it's a very lesson don't tell saying it as what you're doing in your sign design I love that show don't tell I'm I know that that's you know you didn't just make that up but that's so so very much what I do I do if you listen to the audio dramas of yester year right now I know that in the U. K. they have they've consistently haggling BBC four has been the audio dramas right and you guys never stopped we kind of jealous of that but with audio dramas there are a lot of that say oh he has a gun or there's one I think it's from the show %HESITATION have gun will travel which is one of those really old shows but they're supposedly in the scene there are people in a car and they're being haunted by some woman right or like chase by someone then and one guy says he's when is that ever going to be dialogue at least in real life like winds anybody going to say that and I try to make sure that everything that is said in mercury theater podcast is stuff that's likely to actually be sad sometimes in that same episode there is like for instance the one of the girls vapes right and you hear it by this then he refers to like don't paper on me right this is stuff like there's no audio cue but there's also that dialogue reinforcement of what it is that you just heard but it's not Hey I see that vaping your hand you should probably put that in your pocket it's dialogue that I I intend to make so that it sounds as realistic as possible there's nothing worse than audio drama than having to link having made get yourself re engaged to audio drama that because they're saying stuff that just wouldn't actually be set in war I love this so that he can see and creates M. some eight takes as well and some just chatter amongst your cast out with you and your cast and the production process and it's quite revealing but it's also quite fun why why do you say to those going back a little bit and the couple minutes of and that is that there is at the end of in the credits right all of the people say their own name and their character and you get to hear what their voice actually sounds like because sometimes they'll do something that that is totally different than their actual voice it's far and few between but it is fun to listen to so going back to the episode B. E. N. that one there is a voice actor Angelo Cruz who has an on Nazeem voice what an amazing voice he plays the role of probably somebody it middle aged man he's twenty one one in the episode but he has such a deep veering crest vocal it sounds amazing but when he says has so and so I'm Angelo careers and then you hear what they actually sound like great and then going into our takes the reason why I did that was actually partially because one I wanted people to know what they sounded like but also it's an homage to the show let's pretend that was also an anthology back in the day I listen to that as a kid absolutely love that and they would say I I always remember civil trend was one of the the consistent voice actors on there so they would say there is their name but with the out takes I enjoyed out takes and I just find highlights within that and I'm already having to work with those outtakes regardless so I figured I just put them at the back of this the episode and then find my favorite ones and then put those in there the favorite ones that I can put on there yeah okay %HESITATION mercury theater podcast is actually designed to be listened to by children in addition to their parents I say that it's it's written or created for adults and then edited with kids in mind right I found that family friendly usually means that it's for the kids but parents might find something that might be enjoyable about it and I kind of went the other way around and made it so that kids can listen to it and not be offended but it's really to get the adults happy about it there's some people who just don't like swearing and a lot of stuff they rely heavily on swearing as the way that they put out stuff but I I don't like to do that not with our universe twenty five is gonna be a little bit different in that regard it's going to be much more adult centered so university five what might people be able to expect from not woody planning for that one then can you tell us yet yeah there are some friends who thousand years in the future these friends find an artifact that was from a thousand years prior which if you do the math it's about right about now it was it was left by Dave finds that it goes against what they have come to understand as reality and they use this artifact and try to spread the information that the artifact represents that's kind of a jumping off point it's gonna be a lot of fun some people think of it as probably science fiction but it's not really meant to be science fiction it's kind of just I've been trying to put some what it's like and I realize that really I can't find a whole lot of stuff that it's very much like now like Fahrenheit four fifty one is a book that I've been told might have some similarities and there are some other %HESITATION have you ever seen breaking bad okay right yeah it'll have some breaking bad element to it but in that group getting attached to the characters right and then you're wondering at what point do they devolved into when you stop being their friend right and there's a lot of emotional investment that I'm I'm hoping to accomplish with this but at the same time you know asking questions that people are dealing with today and I'll have to leave it at that there's just so much the that's going on with it I'm so excited about it but I don't really know how to I haven't actually tried to put it into words in that concise elevator pitch what it is but I don't have to yeah yeah so do you have an idea when you'll be able to release that one then so we're in the casting process right now and because it's going to be a lot easier to actually create the sound design it'll be a lot faster of a process but at the same time I'll still be putting out mercury theater podcast and have to record it can and doing all of the recording next month but with the snow storm it might actually put us into March and it'll probably be out in may I'm thinking but don't hold me to it could come out in August or November is a well whenever whenever it's ready weekend read twenty two we can based whatever every great I'll really yeah well good luck with the production of it signs and treating thanks if nothing else it will be intriguing I'm loving the writing of it partially because it is a series right and I can go from episode one that'll be pretty mild and then index celebrates as the series goes on but at the same time I can write stuff and I can write theory into stuff that happened or will happen with the environment with the characters and their stuff that still I wrote something a couple days ago and like that would be amazing you know because I've already written it but I realize that their stuff that has the potential of being before all of it even starts that would completely change the environment that's going on so I kind of accidentally blow my own mind maybe the listener won't be as excited when they find out about it but you know for me as a as a writer it's so fun to be able to excite myself and to find find stuff that still still really interesting and %HESITATION with mercury theater podcast it's only thirty minutes and now granted if you look at the thirty minute episode of mercury theater podcast and sometimes is like twenty three minutes or whatever for each minute of final product you're looking at about a page of dialogue but with with a screenplay for a movie it's actually going to be kind of the same but most of the only probably half of the writing is actually into explanation as to the screen like where the camera is like it's panning over the city scape or whatever I don't have that ability as an audio drama creator so if you actually put the dialogue of my episodes to the dialogue of a movie it's certainly not one to one and it's much higher be much closer to like %HESITATION probably a fifty minute creation as far as dialogue to like if it was a movie it would be about the equivalent of fifty minutes but it's something that I found interesting when I was a I don't know if you ever do this but if you look at the screen play of a moving as you're watching the movie and like reading along with the dialogue and seeing all of the stuff I was surprised at how short those water and I have now written with universe twenty five something that's longer than this and it's actually going to be probably two and a half hours of season one that's a fun thing to be able to look at before I actually put people in front of a microphone something to look forward to then on the on the audio drama sphere and we're curious if I cast it's a monthly afterwards so %HESITATION keep mind listening to that of course I do enjoy the variety of not have to say you're really getting into the different stories I was just thinking as she heard her talking there is files that you know you mentioned that you record everything remote they so I mean that's has worked right fairly well over the past couple of years I'm guessing this is something he started during this some strange time that we've been in for the past couple of years purposes something you retain before I did actually started this during Copeland so I was actually my %HESITATION my wife was on was on holiday as you would say and she was across the country visiting family and I was bored and I figured I could just redesign my my spare bedroom so I did that and she came home and she was not happy nobody's ever in here by R. awhile for sure he has so I made it so there is a soundproofed areas that I'd be able to do recordings that's not where I am right now but it's it's over there I should probably be more respectful of people every so often %HESITATION and do that yeah so I did that but with with the other voice actors most of them actually are in theater and they were kind of missing the that theater experience so I kind of unintentionally made myself a conduit that people could actually find themselves doing something that they enjoy doing and it's a lot of fun to actually make an episode of mercury theater podcast but you know that's one of the things that I'm going to be changing with universe twenty five is that I'll actually have that one and that one will be in person as opposed to being virtual and that's going to be I'm so excited about that process because it'll be more of the same but at the same time it's something that's different and people can respond to each other's like visual element even though the listener isn't going to see that visual they're going to hear there's more excitement when people are standing up in front of a microphone as opposed to sitting down in front of a microphone and to break that glass people might have so mercury theater podcast is mostly acted sitting down and I want people to get when physical grain so instead of a running scene that sounds like this they'll actually get involved in the long run in place without lifting their feet if that doesn't get confusing too much in that physical element is going to put it to yet another level and funny enough so mercury theater podcast has been I don't know if you're familiar with the audio verse awards but a bunch of audio dramas will submit an apposite of various two audio verse awards and then they will don't judge it right there were over seventeen hundred applicants for this year in audio first awards and we actually got nominated amongst the top ten for vocal directing gradient yes and I again that goes back to people having somebody to respond to if you listen to a bunch of audio dramas you'll realize that the conversation is stilted and I try to eliminate that as much as possible but if I can do that with being virtual how much more so can I do being in person so I'm excited about that the funny thing is I have no no directing experience whatsoever before all of this well take it yeah episode one hundred of our podcast was wastes both of them more and he said an audio drama producer right now away and does a lot of Toorak saying I'd recommend seat actually to listen said my top with him because he talks a lot about exactly what you just been talking about it and working in space with doctors so that they're actually standing around in a circle and they're interacting with each other and trying to get performances side of people actually getting in T. embody that performance you actually walk across and then shut something up that guy because it's not coming up with you pretending to date just actually doing it you know what that sort of stuff so he's really a sell to us and she's very very experience so that men actually should write a book and I've seen a lot of his post so we're in actually a couple of the same groups on Facebook he puts out a lot of information essentially the the author of today's audio dramas KC Wayland wrote the book bombs always beep and that guy is amazing well as I actually had the ability to have a conversation with KC Wayland and there's an episode of us talking it's just that being willing to learn and being willing to change your actions accordingly because sometimes somebody will get a bad habit and then they'll stick to it and if somebody is able to say Hey you should probably do this maybe do that and then if you do that then you have the potential of growing violence the best way to make no progress is by doing the exact same thing that you've been doing I've read bombs always beat cover to cover probably three times it has a bunch of highlighting and a bunch of notes that I've put on there I actually need to read it again because I've gotten to add another level and it's something that no matter where you are in the production you can always learn more from it his book was actually probably an eighth the size that it probably should be because there's so much more information that could be given but I can't imagine somebody would want one backhand but being like it's a really really good resource but Bo Lamar should should write one as well yeah really informative there's a lot of free tickets this was an advice you can take it as a price and and not upset it did for them and I just mine's just filled with and pets not to hate this creates a be a lovely saying it's something else that's never gonna happen I don't think that if the I love the idea to stay if you ever K. it would be the like says life recordings I think with mercury theater GM he ever thought of thoughts that may be a far off future saying you are you can have a say in a pub or something or I remember I said that if an audience even a small one and have your actors in the same place yes and because I know they're all all over the place but just sent in a dream scenario you know base it's a fun thing to say would be to have like a life audience I receive with your actors a very fun yeah so I mentioned home companion little bit of go home companion was one of those shows that I believe they traveled and they would go to different theaters and they would have their performance and every week is something different but they had some of this definitely some of the same elements and there's one this gauge that they were just there to go back to and I was Dino are private right I really really enjoyed that because you get the sound effects and everything like the shoes the people walking there was somebody that was a Foley artist he had issues in his hands and he was making those walking sound effects and then you have on the door creaking and all that stuff all of that stuff is on stage and there are these these voice actors who are doing all this stuff every week if I could I absolutely would the problem is there isn't enough time in the day to get all of the stuff that I want done so an episode of mercury theater podcast if you go back far enough you can like D. N. or Nikki sketch and those those episodes really early on those were actually taking me about a hundred twenty hours to produce in sound design that's not even including the acting and the writing that was just the sound design it's a lot of time now and this time M. as progress as I've honed my skills I can now get an episode thirty minute episode done in about thirty hours so if you think about that I'm touched me about an hour and minutes which is still kind of a lot but in addition to that I'm also doing the universe twenty five which is a series of %HESITATION now tack on another I think it's going to be about eight episodes in tack on another eight episodes or sounds a hundred fifty pages or something yeah it's a hundred fifty pages to add on to that put in a live setting there is not enough time in the world take him to get all that stuff done but if I had my what I I've heard referred to as my druthers right if I had my druthers I would actually get to the point where I I can pass mercury theater podcast on to somebody else and say this is yours take care of it right I would still have some say in say maybe try something different or whatever but I definitely would see myself having hands off thing with that but fixating on stuff like universe twenty five and potentially going into live I've definitely even scouted out a really small community theater I was like Hey that would be a place that if once a month or something that I would have like an audience and have people interacting with the voices that would be a lot of fun yeah nice maybe some day yes there is a there is not enough time in the world I just I'm just I just had a little Mandarin my imagination there no I love it and this is actually a conversation that I've heard and I've had this now on a on a few occasions and it's because it is a really good idea it's just it's the implementation and right getting all those elements to work and currently in this environment there's fully artistry that I want to do I want to make it so crowd work but the problem with the crowd work right now in this world is it's hard to do because one you're either risking people's health more two you're getting the muffled masking and everything or you know go the step further and goes for a third and then you have maybe a hundred people in front of a hundred different microphones are one microphone and just have them kind of cycle through but that's not going to have the same element that a crowd would you're getting just that really small again going back to acting and reacting in a crowd of people are using other people as they're gauge for how excited or how mellow they need to be if I had a crowd I would be able to do that but want to get rid of this whole code thing I mean I and then be able to get people back into our room and not have to worry about masks muffling the sound that they would be giving otherwise it occurs to me that I hadn't asked G. as there is significance to the mercury theatre %HESITATION I was a really big fan of old time radio most of everything they do one way or another is an homage to previous endeavors and Orson Welles have you ever heard war of the worlds the audio production so that was done by Orson Welles and now is mercury theatre on air so he had his theater which was mercury theatre and then they would also do the audio dramas so it's an homage to Orson Welles and his works very nice love it is there anything we haven't touched on that you ready open to talk about eight I want to talk about all things I could DO IT %HESITATION drama for ever and ever and ever and still want to go to the next person and still do the same thing I love the whole process just everything that's involved with that but now I think that all of the %HESITATION all of the stuff we went over do you have any other people's idea dramas that you listen to that you think people should know about anything oh my goodness yes okay kind of self serving but if you go into mercury theater podcast and go into the with the extrapolations their interviews that I've had with a bunch of audio drama creators I have spoken to like I said to KC Wayland I spoken to governor eller Vienna he created while three fifty nine and unseen but it's the any audio dramas I'm the most excited about because it's people who are like me who don't have they're not working with the highest names impacting right SO Casey Whalen he cheats he's able to work with Laurence Fishburne and with lavar Burton and all of these other actors that the in the drama of creators aren't able to but they're putting out stuff that they're extremely passionate about and the first one that comes to mind is the vanishing act and that's amazing definitely an adult audience but fun adult audience that's amazing then the call of the void that's the audio drama as well and I've spoken to both the producers from both of those and there are a few more I actually have on my website a list of audio dramas that people should listen to you and they are definitely among them but I love audio dramas people because they're excited about being able to put out something that I'm also excited about putting them but they have their own unique styles and you know with the vanishing act that was done mostly remotely for the second season but for the first season they put it or or the second half of the first season they did remotely but they still did it in such a way where is kind of live by it they have theater backgrounds and then call of the void they actually know the vanishing acts people and I did not know this but as they meet all of their %HESITATION stuff they did kind of that's what I was telling you is stilted and and you know they would have their their dialogue and then somebody else is dialogue just keep on putting that but they did it in such a way that they were able to have somebody respond to them right so they were able to use the other people's mannerisms so that it that it was all cohesive and all these different directing processes that are that are going on right now with you because of it being a thing it's really creative how how people are coming out with content and not losing what they built okay great just some not then so those are a few things we can put in the show notes and links take you wanna say about your website and any socials you want to point people towards sure so first and foremost the website and all of the socials and everything and you can contact me if you wanted to %HESITATION via email that's on there so me personally I'm John S. badger on Twitter or I am all the socials you can find mercury theater podcast on Twitter Facebook just it's actually a really big time stock is all the socials I I'm sure you can use all about it it's like somebody else will get on there for fun and I'm just on there to to get the word out let people understand what it is that I'm I'm doing but at the same time not being like a salesman right it's five but yeah %HESITATION mercury theater podcast dot com mercury's deter deter spelled either way I got both of the domains and things it is spelled are easy if you were wondering about the actual spelling I did it the right way yeah they say it's a thought okay %HESITATION very casual John Barger and has been such a pleasure I've really enjoyed our conversation I hope you got something out of it SO I'll spend really great to see your enthusiasm is welcoming sherry Spencer enjoyable yeah the enthusiasm isn't something that's going away anytime soon I got into this about a year and a half ago and got really excited about it and as time has progressed I've only got more excited about it it's just now I'm figuring out a lot more of the old one people don't like to geek out a whole lot but still like okay it's a podcast but it's not it's it's an audio drama it's like yeah yeah is on a whole other level podcasts can be pretty accurate to me have to force was pretty good ones this one this is a great way yeah it's putting thirty hours of post production and to adjust to admins on the facts and everything just take people out of their head space and put them into a storyline ends thank you so much for sharing all of that with this this is exactly the place to come if you want to get going to bite stuff we love a whole heap a kicking I John audio visual culture so you're welcome back anytime thank here it's been an absolute pleasure really has been
hello you're very welcome to see this latest episode of audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas have found media the arts and culture with me Paul applier I am so excited today C. NG xi TI Nicole matter race Nicole works as you'll hear across lots of different areas meaning at the moment the coal is an independent podcaster pet like myself Nichols also been involved in axing including film acting and has a bike ride and some C. H. work as well and pretty saying and writing so there's really quite a lot of different areas to get and see with Nicole we spent quite a bit of time talking about the podcasts that she works on this wild really really excited said and she she cynical she's pretty great as ever huge thank you to all of your third lessening and everybody engaging on social media our instagrams creeping up all the time our our followers are creeping up all the time and it's pretty easy to say it's lovely to have more and more people on board all the time so recording this early January and I realized in late December that we had fallen off apple and I have no idea how that happened but I have fixed the problem we're back on a bill I think that possibly that's why a lot of our numbers are listening numbers drops a while ago I don't know how long this is been a problem for nobody tells me anything you need to tell us stuff because we don't know this it has been rectified we're on a podcast again don't know what happened apologies for that I am apologizing or something that could possibly have been my fault because I didn't change anything AT and T. anything and it was still feeding strangely it was still fading all of the podcast upset are fed from apple so I don't really understand what happened there but we're back we're up and running and it should all be fine again we are searchable and find built on apple's get subscribing and please leave us a really lovely profusely if you can give us five stars if you're not interested in giving us four or five stars I'm not really interested in you David not refuse is just keep it to yourself so back fighting fit go quite burned to eat there in December wasn't very well for a bit December fighting fit again in January this is coming up in February so hopefully that this energy will just keep it's going through the cold dark winter here in the north east of England and once again do I'm in sunny California speaking with the coal so at Sam great to see that if you want to see that join our behind the scenes here %HESITATION Petri on dot com forward slash AV cultures the behind the scenes patrons we already have have the privilege of seeing the videos whenever my casts consent to this they have the privilege of seeing the video recordings of these episodes and they get that released to them after a few days before the actual audio edit come site so if that's something you would like to see if you would like to see our lovely faces especially hopefully he's gas I'm having here beside in California if you'd like to see their son a glowy faces and made a limited appeal in the dark corner of the history and then the winter then head on over to our patron and join top tier it's if you're in the U. K. it's five find some months and it's something else and the other currencies but it's five points a month for a question and and you get quite a lot actually four thoughts on it really helps us out quite a bit because if anybody's been following you might have noticed I really made a push over the winter C. get more transcripts site there at the minute it's the automated transcripts that have come from either U. keychain or from a cast so they are anything but perfect and it would be great to see have some funding to be able to say pay me to go through them so that I get something for that time because it's really time consuming going through them and making sure everything is correct and hyper linking things and that sort of stuff so at the minutes to even just making sure the transcript is Eris it's a bad actor from what I'm doing but I'm hoping that learning better recording techniques and using better tack this is my first time using sand caster and I think you will really notice the difference from St because I was getting tired of me and my guest having really good microphones and it still Sinding really Ralph antennae and scratchy and horrible because of his similac and sang caster souls those problems on it so crisp and clear and I just wish I'd heard about it sooner but I'm so grateful that I find an alliance I think they're doing amazing work in the world turns everybody needs to know about them so that Sam caster and I'm going to think of this and so much more and the show notes but look for noise I've rambled Archie and north really enjoy this child with Nicole she snaps it delights and she's working on some reading lovely things and she seems to be just a really great person as well so really enjoy this one and thanks are second with this Nicole mastery set such a joy to have you on audio visual culture society very very warm welcome thank you it's really wonderful to be here I really appreciate a call thank you I'm ready please you got in touch nickel you work across a lot of different areas and will try to buy lots of different things to see what we meander and see but first of all would you please tell us where you are and how you're doing today yes I am currently in central California a lot of people refer to it as the Central Valley so three hours north of Los Angeles and three hours south of San Francisco and how I'm feeling today is is really good and optimistic which is nice you know it wake up it's pretty early where I am it's ten thirty I woke up at about seven something feeling refreshed which is I'm not a morning person so that was a nice feeling for me to be like well I'm in a good mood today I'll take it you know first thing in the morning before I had my coffee to which usually I need to wait until then but so so so far doing very optimistic today awesome that's really great to hear yes this is going well not just as been dark here for a couple of ours for in the evening here in the U. K. it's so nice to be able to see these trans Atlantic recordings I think and the timings are and all that but they were great but it's nice for me to see nice sunny faces well that's that's great so I can ask you it's almost like time travelling how's that how is the day been so far so it's evening for you days out nearing an end has it been a good day I think it's been all right yeah I've been in a fight you know life saying that working on stuff in planning this recording I've been writing my questions for you in this thing to your podcasts this morning and then I was working on a job application because we only need one of those and some stuff came in the post so that was exciting had things to play with from the post so yeah just said he's been dialed to Haiti but I've been really looking forwards said having this topic this year it's been really nice said vicariously get to know your tiny bit through this thing to some of your podcasts thank you thank you very much for listening I appreciate you know any and all this and that doesn't to me it doesn't matter how how big the audience is just if people are listening I appreciate it so thank you very much yeah well I've been enjoying it so we will talk about your podcasts each in detail and it begs but I was just wondering if you'd be happy as well to give us a bit of an overview on all the things you do because you do some acting as well you've done some producing America and I think it better for writing I read somewhere as well and would you be happy to just lay some of that right for us and you know how would you describe yourself absolutely and I'm happy to kind of start from the beginning because it is kind of a long story and I do you know I am kind of a Jack of all trades %HESITATION I like to think I'm a master of some but I would also cut out but I do a lot of us are from the beginning %HESITATION all right was not born in Long Island New York %HESITATION and for for people who are unfamiliar because I moved to the west coast you realize people are unfamiliar with Long Island there is literally an island just kinda jutting out of New York and I'm from that region of America the United States America went to high school there went to college in upstate New York on Lake Ontario and studied broadcasting creative writing I always enjoyed writing and acting and in college I really does more so into that I took script writing classes absolutely loved it realize I wanted to write a movie one day and that I just enjoyed dialogue much like me talking to you Paul I enjoy making my characters talk to each other as well %HESITATION and I realize that something I enjoy yeah I acted in student loans and student plays and really build up a resume which is really nice %HESITATION jump forward a few years later I graduated college and moved to Brooklyn New York which is a part of a borough in New York City and it looks back on my resume of student film student plays and realized I had a resume you know at the time when I was working on all that stuff back in college I think I was just like god this is just for fun like this is for for me what did you know it still is but you know no one's really going to care about this in the future and I could have been more wrong I made a resume an acting resume a writing resume I'm stuffed I worked on an applied for sketch comedy teams and I was on the sketch comedy house team at the people's improv theater in New York where I performed on stage I wrote I managed like an SNL but lower budget live on stage at a feeder %HESITATION this is one theater spaces were opened so %HESITATION yes I got into that more so in New York kept at it with being in my friend's web series and films and and projects from there got the opportunity to be in a I. Troma movie which is the longest running independent film company that was a really big moves on being in you know a feature length movie I had a couple lines I had a small part but I had a good part and then I got the confidence and the resume to move to Los Angeles my fiancee who at the time was my boyfriend was here I moved to Los Angeles %HESITATION was acting writing %HESITATION I'll sorry I should write in New York I also produced my own comedy shows me every day I end up Bruce producing some sketch comedy shows an improv show and ended up %HESITATION writing producing directing and acting in a plane so I got the confidence to move to Los Angeles if you like okay I could follow my Hollywood you know dream that I've had since I was little I got the resume the real all that stuff I'm going to go I'm happy I jumped into it when I did that because little did I know that things which shut down in an unprecedented time just a few months into any living there and things weren't weren't happen the way they do that %HESITATION so I really did jump and I was just kind of getting background work but I was happy to be there and %HESITATION I did have some acting work I did I did some voice acting while I was there and was in Los Angeles for a little under two years %HESITATION during then I had produced a couple web series just right from my home which is very nice remote but my friends also being remote yeah we found in our apartment you know separately across the country and then the time came right realize you know I could still be passionate about independent film and be in my apartment and I didn't have to be in court on court Hollywood to produce I began the podcast and realize again I could be sitting in a room anywhere in the world and make this stuff I don't have to be in a particular location so that's what led me to where I am today I do have to podcast I host totally tubular %HESITATION which is the one that began in twenty twenty one %HESITATION early twenty twenty one I should say I co host with my friends we talk about a new animated show every week and just towards the end of twenty twenty one I began my own podcast called totally recommend this dude I realized that I wanted to talk to people about podcasts it just kind of want to talk people's ears off about it to be honest and I was like you know what like I I should I should record myself yeah I talk about the podcast and I enjoy it so that's where I am today you know kinda nice that you made people could just connect anywhere in the world now as long you have a microphone or webcam you're good to go so that's where I am now brilliance thanks for that Nicole I totally echo those sentiments side I've really so enjoy it even before the pandemic connecting these people street podcast saying it but the pandemic strangely for this podcast is a a real blessing because I get to meet people like you I hear you so far away from me you're basically on the other side of the world and yet we're having this child's life and other people are gonna get to hopefully benefit from not you know that I think that's a really special thing that we can do a nine I agree and I have to say I like had a %HESITATION I I applaud you so much for being in the podcast game prior to the pandemic you know %HESITATION I started a podcast in I think is twenty nineteen and I mean it's okay it was a good practice round it just like didn't really it was overly ambitious I think I wanted to write two hundred words a day and talk about it on a podcast which like that's a great idea I just couldn't keep up with it I became too busy but being in lockdown really helped me be like %HESITATION like I do like podcasting and now I'm I'm in a space where I could really do it consistently and I agree like I don't know if even prior to the pandemic if I would have thought of networking with people all over the world it really did kind of bring us all together in its high because as isolated as we all are we're we're coming together in other ways which is a blessing as you said it's a silver lining and everything I think so yeah to expose because we were on not already then it be nice to see have a bit more of a closer look at each of those podcasts at your working on currently so I really love the idea of totally recommend this states so that's where you you're recommending podcast that he really likes you talk for maybe a bite fifteen minutes or so apart a podcast you're listening to you and you're ready interested in and outside a year maybe learning a lot from and it's really lovely day here those experiences you know I'm somebody he listens very widely to podcasts as well and zero waste you know open to hearing about the ones you've never heard of yet you know so I I particularly like that if I did it and it's something AT and T. %HESITATION email newsletters I deal with this podcast it's a monthly newsletter and I have a little spot in it where I recommend something I finessing taste so I felt a real affinity with you making that would you like to say I suppose get into just a bit more detail that affect that and may be hi natives if you want if you if you would like to buy what year lessening T. and why why you want to share that so much was people and those sorts of things absolutely and and I just want to start off by saying I'm going to subscribe to your email newsletter and I want to know what you're listening to so cool that you you know do something similar that's great yeah I would love to talk about it more you know I made a on Twitter page for fantasy shed %HESITATION which is the production company that hosts totally tubular right that was the first podcast I really got my footing and and I saw a lot of people particularly tweeting anyone have podcast recommendations that's one I see very frequently right like whether it's you know there's there's some theories out there spots and but you know what I saw frequently nothing like okay statistically there have to be people really looking for podcasts right and I realized that I you know had there there was a brief time where I was commuting Lee ran on twenty twenty one where things kind of seems like they're getting back to where they were prior to twenty twenty and I found myself reaching out to friends and asking more so you know I'm I'm walking to work I'm commuting by bus to work I need a pot I need a good contact castle listen to and they would recommend something to me and then I would want to recommend something to someone else but sometimes I send big blocks of text messages to my friends and you know everyone's getting recommendations are so much content these days that I kind of felt that it was spam them and so between seeing that on Twitter and listening and being like real wake and two areas I can listen to podcasts I decided to begin my own podcast talking about it %HESITATION and talking about what I I I want to have a healthy balance of promoting my friends podcasts and promoting podcasts but people I don't know figure just a good way to to promote independent art etcetera so so that was the idea behind totally recommend this dude some of the podcast I I would like to recommend done here and and you hit the nail on the head to Paul that there's a lot of learning that can be had from podcast and there are two in particular that I just recently released that I think do exactly that kind of change the way you think or open your mind to the way you think %HESITATION I don't know if you have listen to the shrink next door the podcast if you like true crime %HESITATION which I know it's like some people are really gung ho about true crime stories some people are really like that's not my thing and you know either way respective district next door open my eyes to what a true crime story could be because it's a little bit ambiguous I don't want to spoil too much you know if you want to listen to I don't want to ruin the story for you but that one change the way and with my mind to like what a true crime story could be so that when I I spoke about on my podcast and %HESITATION just recently I dropped an episode about a podcast that I actually was watching because the upload to YouTube to us watching %HESITATION before I spoke with you it's called the trillion our mindset and that one open my mind and change the way I think about finance money and S. T.'s stocks as a creative I always thought that was a world that was not for me which is narrow minded by I did think that it was for the buttoned up Manhattan Wall Street you know stock guys at and not for the everyman so that %HESITATION podcaster trainer mindset open my eyes like okay no this is this is for the every person so those are those are two that I would really recommend people listen to the entire radius but when you just mentioned that it's really in their mind sets and it's just nice to hear what you're getting out of it and I think that's probably what's missing because a similar T. you get bombarded I think if you're a podcast on Twitter you can %HESITATION you know you know your podcast buddies he got old and ended is %HESITATION is any podcasts racks you know in a million people's jumping on it going listen to me listen to me listen to me yeah and then there's things like good pods that have sprung up that goes like we're basically your your one stop shop for that we're basically Gatorade's but for podcasts and stuff I think you're in somebody talk about it and it's a nice format where it's quite an everyday thing and I think that's why most of us are listing it's why we're just day and stuff around the house for example are commuting or whatever we're doing something else usually while we're listening to a podcast so I recall that sense from listening to your episodes because I get those sort of Eureka moments we are testing something out hello I don't see it live my life the way I see it this way and try that yeah I love those Eureka moments that's really like such an amazing thing about podcasting right Paul and you and you hit the nail on the head it's amazing how there's this format now I mean the joke the ongoing joke on Twitter to raise it like everyone has a podcast now whatever first of all I think it's a great thing because it helps independent artists get their voice out another thing is like well how fortunate are we to like have so much knowledge available to us I mean on one hand you could say it's overwhelming because it it's like information overload but on the other hand yeah you could go on wherever you listen to podcasts you're someone just tell you a story about something and learn something brand new in like like you said fifteen minutes I feel like we're fortunate for that I forget if I set it on my podcast or if I'd like posted on you know Twitter Instagram promoting it but listen to what I guess is your brush your teeth like whatever as your as you're getting ready in the morning to take on the day listen to a podcast like it doesn't have to be you know like it could be fine and casual yeah I love that about it if you're enjoying the show room and would like more information straight to your inbox head over to audio visual culture style wordpress dot com linked in the show notes and sign up to our mailing list it be great to hear that more bite to the ten younger as well because and again this is a topic quite close to my heart and huge animation fan it's a really nice I easier that you and your friends get together you know you pick it an animated series and you just go to tighten it there's a bit of friendly banter there as well between all of you to get it over and talk it just wanted to ask you as well then what's your experiences working on tasks hi did top idea come up by since why cartoons what do your limitations you know all that sort of stuff tell us all apart from the tenure yeah I'm happy to do so let me as a long story I feel like all my stories a long story so far to me but I want to make sure to get the details and so so the creator of totally to annular %HESITATION James very good friend of mine has had my back both as a friend and creatively for a long time you know I mean on the kind of thing what we both want to list each other to be like okay yeah like my friends working on this project get involved or like yeah look let me put you in contact with so and so and you don't like we we help each other network and and build our our resume in our contacts so he and I met years ago and like I said I've worked together on some projects including an animated show that he put out he made and he made the first episode four called underpowered people to watch the trailer for that on %HESITATION trauma and into trouble for trump as you to page and on watch trump analysis or streaming service just a little promo there so yes %HESITATION James created these animated shows and the pandemic was keeping everyone on lockdown and he sent us a text myself Ben and Leo in early February twenty twenty one this was on my birthday actually I think I'm about ready so it's really also nice to get that text or he was like Hey you know you three I think it was a very he phrased it very funny which I love he's like you three have your have your life together you want to do a podcast with me about I think you wanted to show that like cartoons aren't like I think there's a bad stereo type of cartoons and just like I don't know lazy people watching it now based on whatever all day not really you know the best area type but unfortunately stereotypes do exist and he wanted to put out there like not like enjoy anime shows it can be for everyone so I was really I was really flattered to for him to ask me that I actually had been I just getting a little bit more personal I had been in a creative slump I mean first of all twenty twenty anyone that's stayed productive and creative in and enriched in twenty twenty like all power to them because I found that incredibly challenging I actually had a death in the family hold it yeah thank you %HESITATION my grandfather passed away no and that happened like may twenty twenty and like from there I lost all my creative juices %HESITATION I was like you know what like I'm not going to push myself like I'm just like going to you know let my mental health needs seal and and and chill out so I had to eventually got into working on stuff and this was also a really nice welcome from my friend to be like Hey like I enjoy you all you gotta do is show up you know weekly last with me about cartoons and like let's have a good time no I was so on board it was such a good way to like get back into like my creative bug for lack of a better word like you said Paula you love animated shows it's just it's just I have a good laugh and have a good time we we tend to like go a little bit off the rails and and I'm just talking about like like we don't keep it particularly and metrically anime shows the whole time we have like a fine conversation just our last episode we watched the critic which I highly recommend I don't know if you've watched it was my first time watching it and and talk to it %HESITATION these two gentlemen you lie in Andrew that have worked on on horror movie called the reenactment and so we talked about like their movie and like I met them so we're kinda like connecting and networking you know I mean similar with you I mean now it's been a fun way to keep in contact with friends you know like every week I'm like okay at least for like an hour or or so I know I'm gonna like you know have a good laugh with my friends when people listen they have a good laugh do yeah it is interesting how you feel like you get to know the people you that you're testing C. and then you have to really so no actually my friend they don't know he just knows I know what you mean I do that I do that same thing but I mean you'll see in like as episodes of of totally recommend is due to come out unlike giving shout outs a like you're doing a great job to like was I totally get that that's very sweet being an anti podcaster I would take anything I can get even if I never hear a fight it take anything yeah oh my gosh I totally agree and like I saw a meme %HESITATION what was I still think this really cute meme of like this little girl playing a guitar and like a kitten listening to her and it was like it doesn't matter how big your audiences that you like you know people appreciate you yeah and you know you're doing great I just putting out art so I totally agree I mean I'm an indie podcaster to obviously so I'm in the same boat as you sure with to the titular as well one of the criticisms I have of my own show of audio visual cultures is I think it's too broad in a sense and it's brought because those are my interests site I'm really interested in where different media start to slip over each other and converge and I don't really like to get keeper have pine trees over those things and I think where a lot of podcasts D. Reidy while probably like to the tenure it's very clear with lots of fights and as you say you you talk about other things you don't you know what strikes if I thought but that is the core premise of the show is right we're gonna take this animated series American it going to tight on that you know we can you really tell the truth yet do we think about it I think that's a really lovely format and it's one of those where it's fairly and less you're not really ever going to run out of material for that I that's a good point yeah that's true yeah we %HESITATION we really are all over the map the groups one rule is no anime just because we think it's like a different you know like we feel like it's another Avenue of content in creation and we feel like we can almost have another podcast just on enemy but other than that we are all over the map as far as what we could watch and talk about yeah the evidence is while scrolling trying to see what we've covered so far as well over the past almost year nine which is great thank you that's a big deal get into your first year thank you because I saw all these people are going to be much younger than they think and then talk intimate shows I've never heard of but that's not the case you yard looking at a lot of stuff hi Watson I was a kids but youth maybe come to in a very different way and the internet has facilitated that very much the you are watching stuff that I was watching as a child in the nineties the Batman series sealed spider man series you know all those searches shows I grew up on and to your date in my system since but you've gone right back and said I was I sent a bit today to see the episode on Futurama as well in huge feature on my farm so good and again you know you're old much younger than me coming today and I was in my teens and you know it spoke to me in different ways you know and it's one of the shows where I have watched it on hard Lutetian at different points in my life and I still want to go back and re watch a whole lot again because it just gives me so much joy yeah it is really great to hear all of you guys and and you do you talk about that so if you talk about how you've come to something as well which I really like we we do I mean we %HESITATION you know oftentimes have almost too many ideas to cover because like I said there's so much which were fortunate for it it's great you mentioned Batman the animated series what a great show well as I like it was my first time watching it I thought it was great James is a huge Batman fan so he was like okay please like the first time so this is my choice you know so sometimes things like that like that to show that I chose that I was hike so gung ho about is a Netflix show called love death and robots I I'm not sure if you watch that one it is it is Graham it is ten feet %HESITATION so that might not be some people saying it's always a win win for all its like an anthology right so each number so it is a different type of animation my totally different team and and that was one that I had like pitched you know to the group like %HESITATION I think this is a fun one to talk about so what we do have a lot of different ways we we we come up with that our topic to talk about sometimes will have guests as you as you saw in that was a list and I will say the gas was wanted you want to talk about and that's how %HESITATION the critic is fresh in my mind because I was our most recent conversation that was how the critic came about it's wonderful because I'm introduce it to things like so what you said like you and I are from different generations I don't know if I would have heard of the show the critic if not for totally tubular and I loved it so funny I think it's the producers of the sensations it was like a very short lived show which sometimes obviously exist sometimes there's hidden gems none there and like I mentioned this earlier but there's so much content out there they these days which is on one hand wonderful on the other hand it's hard to figure out something that will really make you feel good and really make your day so totally Turner is great for that Brandon's I I would really like to see hear about your experiences with axing because you mentioned earlier and I was reading through your internet babies out of the speeds are while you have got a fair few credits for in the past few years you know you've done as you say you've had some small roles in feature films you've done some short films as well %HESITATION and it be retails here by your experiences Wes axing in Feltham if that's alright absolutely oh my gosh do I have a story yeah I mean when I was a little little kid you know as early as I could like speak for whatever reason my mom watched grease all the time and we will so we watch grease all the time you know that move that movie from the I wanna say seventies eighties whatever my mom already tell the story that I was watching it and I was like what are they doing like when you call that and she was like acting out like that's what I want to do and from there it was all downhill from there no I'm kidding it's over there my mom you know sign me up for %HESITATION acting classes nearby you know kids could act together really enjoyed it and got to elementary school middle school time wears like school play time and I like never got leads I always got some laurels but you know it it has helped me in my life and I'll explain why in a second so very humbling I was just excited to like be a part of the production you know no matter how big how small I eventually got like lines like I got lines I took a while yes %HESITATION so then %HESITATION throughout high school I really more so focused on writing I was really into journalism also my high school paper and kind of put a like you know what I'm not getting getting roles getting meaty roles in the plays I'm gonna focus on writing instead got to college and again had that same like doozy Azam where I'm like I just want to be a part of something like I don't have to be the star of the show I just like like give me a line and I'm and I'm happy %HESITATION and I do feel like that's kind of where I am today which actually has been a humbling experience you know and it has been nice for my for my many projects to be honest I don't have to do it I don't feel the need to be the star of the show if someone to put me in that spot very nice but I'm just happy to be a part of stuff so the role yet the rules will see on my IMDb I don't think any of them are leads I think a lot of them are like supporting work whatever and I'm like completely fine with that like I'm completely happy with that I don't have I don't feel any sort of need to be an Oscar winning lead a woman again if it happens you know I happened to go in Oscar no big deal so so I think that is actually why I've had a level of success acting lies is because I'll bring a million percent two small roles you know did nine my whole life I've always been told there's no small roles just small actors and I feel like that's like completely apply to me I'm going how about your project you're giving me three lines but I'm they're going to be like the best three lines that I like I could I could give you and I do I do think I've had success for that reason you know another another reason is because %HESITATION how do I want to put this I dedicate a lot of time tonight which you seem to as well all the writing I dedicate a lot of time to my art and I realized when I got to college specifically that there were times I'd rather be in on a Friday night writing a screenplay then down at a party that's not to say that there I do it like have a balance but that was something I really realize about myself which I'm sure as a creative you feel similar way like having the passion and the heart to dedicate the time to it can make a big difference yeah it's really good to hear thank you an interview I had with somebody back in November is that an actress he is really dropping hard at a lot of those supporting roles Katie isn't enough for a long time and I think you know is at a point where it's become exhausting but she just works so hard at it and she put some effort into it you know and it has paid off at times as well you know she's been in maybe Swiss Nicholas cage and stuff like that you know how to sing wonder this out between you and stuff you know so it's one of those things where if you keep working at that but protect yourself because it's a really harsh industry as well but you can find top balance protecting yourself to really put yourself out there and work and supercharge then he knows what Scannell ichi it's it's so true I applaud anyone you're watching a movie and there's extra is on the screen walking around and I applaud them no because like even getting to that spot is a challenge %HESITATION and and not because you know the lack of talent or anything of course not anything like that just because like you said it's competitive mmhm the harsh industry a lot of rejection so good for people that you know stick with it despite the odds go for them yeah it's an industry where there's a lot more rules than you think I've got friends here in Belfast and you'll have heard of game of servants right so a lot of gather certain systems over north in art and you know I had friends who were the likes of hounds opals and things you know so you'd have shown a nerd Peter dictator he ever those doctors are really expensive and if it's just going to be a part of their body and not their face it's in the shop it's usually a double of some kind you know certain I have a lot of friends who you're registered with the extras it didn't cease background actors and stuff and they got loose a fork Jan hound doubles and made some TV shows and stuff you know there's a friend of mine Hey there's a TV show %HESITATION that is really popular here in the U. K. coast line of duty it said police procedural shows and you know he is the hands of one of the main characters he sometimes using the phone you know on screen of this character and stuff it's can be pretty decorative and it does involve acting you know and it's just different because you did it with your hands and you think that you know you cannot be expressed in the hand but the way that you can deal with the phone or the way you look at a text message or something can be really telling and not I think that does take quite a bit of crafts and talents and you know it's not just a bite turning up and saying license you know so as you say if you can be a presence while you're doing what you're doing you know I think that Sam I really kill thing to think about it that's great and you know it and and here I go learning something new from you I that's so cool there you go there's another element of the the industry that you know maybe a little bit more accessible than being the A. list actor and again your friend it's so cool they bring their everything to something as I say simple I don't mean simple but like in in a bad way but you know like as as just looking at a phone like that and they bring their all to that good for them that's something I gotta do you mind and I wrote down line of Judy I've actually never heard of that show %HESITATION but I would like to check that out I was really into coronation street once that but yeah I know her very well Hey I like soap operas and I wanted to like watch %HESITATION some soap operas from other countries so it was a lie and you do something about check out if your friend that's awesome yeah it's a BBC show so maybe BBC America passes okay probably will yeah nice one of the credit she has is softening T. the final beginning and I haven't seen it but I love the title thanks I say things I didn't come up with the title also sat out to Brandon yeah yeah see signs like a couple of Speicher's episode or something I know you mean that we did about as burgers episode until they do know there are a lot of ending yeah yeah yeah yeah that was a really fun movie that was docile so I guess to drum up %HESITATION entertainment long running independent some company %HESITATION Lloyd Kaufman who founded drama produced slashing the final beginning of really fun movie I do recommend it I mean I'm biased because I'm in it but I also recommend it's also like it's fun to be a part of projects that are like also something that I would like enjoy on my on my own you know like I really love horror movies I love low budget horror movies this one's definitely like a comedy harder to that was a lot of fun and I do have like a couple lines in that I am I have a small world but you know I have to be a part of it I'm words streaming now sure it might be on it might be untrue on the streaming service watching someone else but what if you ever get the opportunity to watch it I would recommend it yeah that's a sign from Heidi end up in those rules he goes through the audition process you hardest outwork us a lately it's really Bana when I was in LA I was doing a lot of auditions so my friend James who I mentioned worked with Brandon on another movie I forget exactly how it came about but like Mike that my connection to James and his connection to Brandon the director writer helped get me in the door so you know it vies for anyone listening is %HESITATION like have a good group of friends your friends want to help you and they want to see you like six seed and they want to have your back end it's worth its weight in gold there is like this %HESITATION stigma about Los Angeles right that it's a lot of people using each other and a lot of C. can ask because people just want to get ahead in their careers and something that I learned really really early on which I'm very fortunate someone said to me was %HESITATION make your relationships transformative not transactional nine and I really thought that was good advice for like sometimes I hate the word networking but sometimes it is the best word to use the wrong way to network in the right way to network people can tell if you're being disingenuous and just want to use that to get ahead and it really doesn't serve you know the general you either like make friends that aren't that likes to make stuff to my friends that I host my podcast with I'm totally tubular they're all filmmakers to where I'm very fortunate to have like met them and to know them because they're genuine they're smart they're talented and we all like have each other's backs so that's the one piece of advice I can really take away it's like being nice to your friends is a very nice to your friends I think I think that is important advice and what you said about being genuine as well chance from transactional to read any good saying I think that's brilliant S. or anything we haven't touched on yet that you really dines talk by Nicole I do for you follow the lead and I don't mean I don't want to put you on the spot so feel free to think about it what are some of your favorite animated shows on and like I said feel free to think I yeah you know kind of put you on the spot here but just when you had said you know that you like anime Jos a I know you mentioned you grew up with future alma that's a great one %HESITATION is there any others that you like I'd love to hear about him I have so many %HESITATION you should show sometimes you don't like that because I really love that she's trying to Bob's burgers as well which is probably can sorry S. U. S. really appreciate it I watched a lot last year was disenchantment okay I think a lot of people have had problems of disenchantment but I am I spent a lot of time in that day what I watched well there is actually a bait to three times the first watch it's quite difficult to get and see but then I watched it again because I thought there's there's something in this and then I watched as the third time and I found the necklace it every freedom of it as a work of art you know it it's absolutely stunning animation the casting and it is amazing so if anybody doesn't know about disenchantment at semi granting show as well for me because I'm such a super super nerds I %HESITATION this blog post where I made an argument for high it's in the same universe as Futurama is that it's the past and future our mystery serial circa compiled evidence for why thank god because I'm such a nerd here though and I a lot of that please %HESITATION if you could send that to me I would love to read that blog post that's really cool that sort of thing yeah so that so that's when I really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to it part four of stock coming I highly %HESITATION sometime in the next year okay cool yeah there's quite a lot of other shows in the net some of the issues as we mentioned that you have discussed because they think you looked at the X. men from the nineteen nineties as well as I've got that right that was one of my favorite when I was a kid nice there's one that I think it's still not six a friend of mine pointed decided to me you know after lord of the rings ally do it just started doing really weird offbeat stuff yeah I do love that yeah I yeah one of the projects he did do is this on a mission and this is one series is I think ten episodes on there quite short episodes called over the garden wall okay I'm pretty sure it's still in that six it was a cartoon network saying the recess and they went through this experimental for years I think and then our new year two thousand so I think I think if I remember right it's about two thousand six or somewhere thereabouts it's just an absolute delight you know and and a very strange way I think there's broad strokes similarities way spirited away well he's a child he something happens to him and he gets whisked off to you re wakes up and he finds himself in this really strange other worldly supernatural place where everything makes sense of the people in it but to him it's all just bonkers yet he is quite at home in a and he is very coming of age saying I won't spoil what you get to the ends but it's really it's really something special right I think it's really beautifully man it's probably done my time Mr likes a family guy and American dad I have watched them for a long long time but there was a time when I was a massive fan of services while I need to search their animation said Sam I'm dying to see that I haven't seen yet I use the command of the IT and life Trekkie and I'm dying to see lower tax and prodigy so looking forward to those at some points yes this was such a few because I kids talk all day of my next yes we should definitely have you on the on our show totally junior Larissa if you like I I'd love to %HESITATION I know some of these I've seen but you certainly sold me on disenchantment and over the garden wall so I'm gonna check those out so cool I think there were sent I think they really were sent nice radiance I just really enjoyed this the coolest been so fun to to China thank you Paul you too yeah we've gone into quite a lot of detail on a lot of your shoes and yeah I'm just really enjoy and listen to more of your stuff I think for it to last and when it subscribed to your %HESITATION recommendation she was welcomed some thank you thank you repose podcast nerds as well as animation nerds this is really nice yes yes I love it I would love to %HESITATION tell your audience not to yes please subscribe to my podcast totally tubular and totally recommend this dude on Spotify totally recommend this dude does have a Twitter too so please follow that and %HESITATION fantasy shed on the production company has a Twitter and please feel free to follow me on Instagram I kind of just went to promos here but I thought that was what I was gonna ask you next anyway that's great yeah and if there's anywhere else on the interwebs at any one might bump and TA just list them all and then this units as well also yes yes I %HESITATION my Instagram is under score and I C. O. L. E. S. and the H. E. A. R. E. S. E. yeah I'm all over the internet has %HESITATION matchmaker the podcast networking website I'm on link Dan I'm on get your usual Instagram Twitter I'm not on tick tock I'm not cool oh my gosh it's not I mean no disrespect to take talk just like I haven't been able to %HESITATION get into it the same way other people have I use other I use either a inter web stuff so yeah there is he should head on on Instagram too I forgot to promote that up I don't run that page so I usually go to promote it but my my friend James I mentioned he runs a fancy sets Instagram so give them a follow to brilliant %HESITATION have you guys got anything coming up that you wanna point people towards entice people less yeah I would love to I love you know what I'm recording this where we have it and sort of tune you're not totally doing they're coming out yeah yeah we have them every Saturday morning %HESITATION this next one we're talking about an animated show I've never heard of the SLORC called earthworm Jim a lot of our spring jam so much you can get enough of that when I was a kid I still have the song in my head it's honestly those are sort of jammed and so on you love it I have to watch more of it admittedly you know before the next episode but that's good to know I have a weird when I was like oh there's no way to answer to this but that's also it went so that'll be a fun episode and would particularly fun about that episode is so my best friend from from college %HESITATION Lindsay sometimes comes in as a as a guest on the show and she's actually going to be co hosting %HESITATION this time around two is gonna be her first time hosting with us on the show so that's going to be fine well sort of going on well monthly I have new episodes of totally recommend this to you the idea is that you know I hope people listen to the podcasts I recommend if they want to you know in between the new episode so tune in for a for a new episode of us totally recommend this due next month I am associate producing a movie called curse of the where deer I would love you guys checked checked out out yes another outro mom trilogy sent movie my %HESITATION co host of a totally tubular Dan is directing it my friend Jimmy's rating it it's going to be another fun funny horror movie which is like totally my Cup of tea it it's yours check it out it's interesting because like we're all home it right now right I don't know be nice to people that's I'm going to get any less so you know we all we all need a little bit and I just miss so a lot okay anyone else listening is not nice like it's just getting out into the world it never hurts to remind her yeah thank you Paula they even the save yeah because even really nice people can lease the rather themselves and not be very nice so it's good to have a reminder you know it I have a funny stories I could tell it really fast yeah you don't want because I do think that like I lived in New York City for a bit and I know it New York City people have the reputation of being a little bit like you know harsh and and I don't think it's that they're like actually mean I think it sets are just like so much going on it's overwhelming it's it's fine to get it wrong it's like there's a lot so when I moved from New York to Los Angeles I still kinda had that like hardy and you know six years %HESITATION but I really so nice I mean again there's that like stereo type that they're fake but like that has not been my tastes are I think I've I think there are a lot of really nice people there so someone was writing on like a scooter right like a motor scooter he was very clearly like my fault I was just like on my phone texting and like gotten their way and they're being so nice is like my first week in LA they're like oaks use me like you know just like being nice and I was like what you're going you know my like your girl take watch it watch it and they were like you have a good day you know like oh my god they don't we just killed me with kindness like I feel so I'm not in Kansas anymore I got a like I feel so bad so you know what as you said Paul it sometimes we all just need a little reminder that it's like it's okay to be nice where it's okay we can do that's friends Nicole masteries it's been such a joy speaking with you pasar it's been great I hope we can continue talking and get to know each other and bring him to you as well Paul I'm going to reach out to you in the near future about being I guess until he didn't do you know if you like he