Audiovisual Cultures episode 85 – Performance and Diaspora with Shea Donovan automated transcript

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this is audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and culture of production with me Paula Blair visit Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures to find out more and to join the policy I am really pleased to welcome shade Donovan he parks transatlantic trade as an interdisciplinary performing artist educator and artistic director of the indigo arts collective the very warm welcome TJ hi are you today hi Paula thank you so much for having me and I'm doing well I had a day of creating and some collaborating already so off to a good start since I'm sick hopefully we'll get into quite a lot of fear practice when it comes to collaboration and all areas of Europe because she have a lot of strings to your bow so there's a lot for us to catch three today could I ask you to give us a better sense of life line of your practices and a bit of an idea of all the different areas your work touches on absolutely so like a lot of practitioners I think I started off as a performer growing up I was dancing professionally in a really young age and then ever to is that right got into singing and acting and studied at university who went to LA into the actor thing for a while and worked as a cracker for there and time that I came to England to do my MFA in acting and east fifteen acting school and as I was leaving I was like okay well I have all of this training to be an actor now but what I need is the work but obviously I already lived my early and mid twenties in LA doing the whole addition saying that ran that momentum and the energy is great but also entering my you know late twenties and and sort of leaving that young performer space I was really really excited to start developing my own practice and so that's what I did when I left drama school I was like okay great when I start my own company invented my own work and see where that goes and fortunately for me it's been going well and I really been enjoying that journey and but so you know speaking of my background Hey do you have a lot of interdisciplinary spirit in the work that ideal it's a lot of the body work a lot of work having to do with dance and movement and sort of the blending of dance with film as well and projections okay the work is sometimes text to stage right I've written and staged plays more often the not it's collaborative I work with groups of people I ran workshops with them do generate material right so we devised in group settings or it's very %HESITATION installation based so the last physical project I did I was in a real place right now but %HESITATION I guess it was during coal bed but we did it safely was installation performance art gallery so I have a lot of curiosity is I think the heart of my practice is very much an inquiry we'll find something that I have a burning question about and then usually that has to do with issues of female identifying characters right social justice looking at communities that tends to be the teams that I got really passionate about that song generating free on one of those teams and then see where it goes and so it could be a play could be a dance piece it could be a fellow can be an installation lights while that's a lot said get started with I was going to ask you about the sorts of things and she sat here south flat work got into the server was very interested to hear more updates as you say the women identifying female identifying areas and what kinds of concerns that we re is we've got some really brilliant videos on your website there's a really fantastic demonstration of the really white breasts of work that you see but you seem to get ready take bend to specific issues as well so you've got quite a range but I could tell from your website that there may be particular things and it might be something really currents like the murder of fly Remicade here somebody like facts or reading huge as she sent a fax to selected by rights and equality and things which I like to maybe talk to Siri some specific examples maybe if you have something that you feel like work to reading reading pile just to help flash site first yeah so to speak to the example that you just mentioned I did complete a piece I guess in December of last year so we have an audience then it was sort of an auto ethnographic exploration of identity right which was prompted by an assignments that I was given as the second masters actually last year in contemporary performance practices and so the prompt was to create you know an automatic before its exploration and I grew up third generation Irish in New York to a very transatlantic Irish American family right so we have a lot of family in Ireland that we went to visit a lot and that was very much part of my growing up and serving the differences I felt personally and culturally between them I didn't care because it's kind of like Irish American nine people with Irish she sounding names that maybe originally came from Ireland centuries ago and then like the contemporary sort of Irish diaspora in New York and where those intersect and blend and other similar color difference out there elements of that that I explore in that piece through the use of bringing in some Irish language and tying in sort of the contemporary discussions around what's going on in the north of Ireland and the sort of attachments I was looking I guess at three different facets of my own identity one of them was Irish cultural identity in the diaspora space and that was something particularly I was a growing up with that culture friend of mine in the states but then moving to England and experiencing it then in a different way product even more front of mind than usual and so I played with that by bringing in elements of Irish language in questions of what parts of identity we sort of hang on to you they have these maybe sort of romanticized folkloric elements and and what parts are useful in creating identity today but then also the difference between things being very far in the past and things being part I have sometimes with instructor asked for identity exploration there's this desire to either bring things that were quite far in the past and resolved really friend of mine and focus on them in a way that might not be productive but then also the flip side of that taking difficult obstacles that actually not only were recent history but had implications on current history and saying well that was a long time ago we're not going to discuss that so I play a lot with that in the peace and I create a soundscape for the work a lot of which is some spoken word poetry that I wrote for the peace and a lot of that speaks to that that sort of juxtaposition between what belongs in the past what is the pay asked how is it relevant how do we look at it and then incorporated that whole narrative with this American female commercialized beauty standard pressure and also I thought was something I wanted to explore and the fact that our now ex president fortunately I feel apologize upon him to political but at that time our president to add a lot to say about women and their bodies and how they should look and what's appropriate in terms of how to engage with women right very much outspokenly sharing funny you know asides assaults that he thought were you know fun little tidbits all that sort of nonsense made for a wealth of sound bites that I could pull from that I also incorporate in the soundscapes are juxtaposed some of the things that he had to say about women within my own self who is performing in the peace physical Ising this struggle I was surrounded by mirrors of all different sizes all over the space constantly putting on and taking off makeup putting on and taking off clothes yeah that's sort of one example right there was an element at the end of the work right invited people up from the audience and I gave them each I'm here to hold and I manipulated their bodies with my body to sort of ask the audience to come into this world that I've created and explore for themselves what it feels like to be on display and sort of at the whim of other people's implants so yeah that's one recent example and my sort of last project I was able to do with physical people and with touch and not participate or any element signs ready partial certainly I think with theater we have this invisible division okay here they're performing and I just sit here in the dark and I don't get involved you know in the audience and separate cuts he deliberately destruct that's I think that's what I find really fascinating about its experimental forms of performance art in areas of visual art where there's a deliberate destruction see that passivity and enforcing of a performance on the spectator I find that she shared interests and how did people respond to that when you got them to be active and monkeys you know I think we get vantage was that I had an audience of a lot of artists and theatre practitioners and people that were game for that sort of interaction obviously when you're doing it in a more public forum with a little bit more of an anonymous audience there may be some levels of percussion there you know heads up you want to give them things like that but I found some of the feedback I received was that it was actually a really powerful I'm sort of connecting experience because the piece did build for quite a while right with the audience just watching the interaction really didn't come into the end and there wasn't necessarily a suggestion that they would be invited to participate so it did sort of comes a little bit of a surprise but it tied in with the invitation that I was offering with the work for the audience to sort of think about these themes in their own life and how they might apply to their own personal identity but I'm bringing them up and giving them the mir you know some of them shared that it was really nice to be able to connect what they've been thinking about watching the peace to then what was physically happening with them in the space so yeah nice overall way to connect the teal I think if I were to do the peace again I'd be interested to see if there are moments I could explore earlier in the work to begin that invitation a little bit earlier hopefully you will get the opportunity do you think there's any way of saying that kind of thing online or as other creative challenges that's the sort of thing you're having to work Sir at the moment is hi can you say something participate hurry and an online space even just performing in an online space told must be really challenging at the moment yeah I mean I think it is and I think part of my philosophy a little bit here has been to kind of resist adapting existing work to the digital space which I see a lot of people do beautifully and I think there's a need for that and that's a great way to exercise practice that that's your you know what you're feeling called to do but I think for me what I've been enjoys creating work specifically within these restrictions like being very intentional about embrace those restrictions and those obstacles and maybe mine them for a different way of making work rather than trying to adapt my normal practice within the constraints of the digital space I've been enjoying creating collaborating in new ways just in fun well that's great to hear that's really positive so have you find it a really positive experience adapting your approach that way yeah I think what I found so early on in lock down in the spring you might remember there was all this conversation right about Howell Shakespeare wrote some of his best work in the plague and all this is to me Shakespeare became circulating around is this icon for how we should all be generating work in lockdown and my training as a classical actor and I loved me some Shakespeare and he started thinking what can we do that's not bad right it's not locking ourselves in in writing our greatest masterpiece but how can I use this exciting momentum of Shakespearean creation right now to create an interesting so obviously the man right a hundred fifty four sonnets we think I'm sure there are lots of scholars who would love to get into with me about that you know we accept you know generally that he whoever recalling Shakespeare created these a hundred fifty for work and I was like well that is a lot of people that I can get involved in something so I decided I was going to create this virtual gallery a hundred and fifty four performance pieces I sort of just reached out to my network so they ended up getting a hundred but for people from all over the world a handful of them I knew personally some of them I knew through sort of networks are friends of friends are we run set together once or something and then most of them just sort of expand out from that so I ended up assembling this beautiful international ensemble and to keep the peace sort of consistent I created a little workshop activity to sort of approach the task and I gave that to all the participants to sort of kick start that process and then give me a few specific restrictions but mostly it was up to them to take this workshop and to generate whatever came from itself some people did traditional delivery of the tax rate but most people really take into their own hands I had original music compositions coming in animations stop motion choreography group works happening in digital ways that were then recorded and sent in Sam it was really incredible and it was at a time when we were really starting to just settle in this is in March April really started to settle into like what we were doing in the world that people were losing contracts and it was all still very fresh and confusing I think for me personally and for a lot of the participants in the feedback I received was that it was really grounding that we were all all a hundred and fifty four of us plus some right to send a few people did group works we were all kind of in this together and I continue to collaborate with some of those participants in different ways on other projects since then but that to me was really miraculous and emphasize the power of the flexing our technology anyway so you know it was a late night sleepless idea that fortunately snowballed into something that has now sort of I think really reshaped my practice in a really positive way since obscenity wonderful let's install second great that it's hot the lag say generate closer collaborations for years while little wonderful thing to have it isn't put together so workplace can people find that it's not something that we can stumble upon on the internet somewhere yeah absolutely so it's linked to my website but it's also on the email itself is a showcase on video now and it'll be there until March of twenty twenty one so it'll it'll be there and showcase form for the full year and then after that all the individual videos will remain available there dot com slash showcase slash summer response series this is what we're talking about collaboration which I'd like to talk is a bit three the end to go arts collective is that an extension of four easy to projects that you've been doing and they attach to box or is that something that you a separate Titus and to go to work yeah so essentially I am it's just sort of the umbrella under which I create my work at this point right and then I sort of set up like a production company when I launched my first show which was a one woman show when I left drama school because I wanted someplace to then put the proceeds which at the time I was like hopefully I get some proceeds right once I was sitting up and shown to be able to take whatever I mean put it somewhere that was set aside just for work and continue to produce out of that so it started off as just me but the assets of all from project to project depending on what my needs are all take on other artists students support the project and then they with me become part of the collective rights on the side of response series I had to really great women helping me out with marketing and was sort of rounding up and communicating with some of the participants and things like that and then they came under the umbrella of the collective while they're working together and then now if I need support like that for a future project they'll be some of the first people go to and say Hey do you wanna come back on board and help me with that but it really is just me ultimately having a space where I can create under sort of a United front and just to sort of continue to build my practice with this body of work and tastic I mean how do you go about finding collaborators and you mentioned earlier that sometimes people are already in your network or is it you've worked with them before and so much I think I have your they can for some some specific can mean hi T. cast that net heights to find people it's interesting right because typically but back when I was making work mostly choreography and small projects like that in Los Angeles I would just put out on casting websites right like I would post on backstage or you know sort of the U. K. equivalent of Mandiant spotlight right things like that but for the last year really during this whole block I'm curious I found so much response on social media I haven't needed to use any casting sites %HESITATION which really I think speaks to the power of that as a tool right it has its downfalls as well right into consumes a lot of our time and can be sometimes distracted but I think also super helpful so you know attach that I'm looking for artists in the post and other people that I've worked with other companies I work with a loss and then share that and I end up getting all of these great submissions and I really don't have to do much more than that I think also to the advantage of having gone to a drama school at U. fifteen with a lot of alumni that are working and really active that's been great about snow all ten of the fifteen people from different years and different cohorts in different you know areas of study that I never would have known otherwise so that's been wonderful I even connected with a few people accidentally who ended up going to the same undergrad university is me two lane university in New Orleans and we found that out in common as we were already working together on a project so it is I think it's a small world but having the advantage of having a New York network and L. A. network and then when you're in London I do get quite a lot of friends of friends of people of people of you know that extended performer world really is quite large I was gonna ask you bite your transatlantic connections and how you work because obviously it's the before times so we're thinking of that must have been a bank and packs in the in a massive change for you because it's normally you're working between the UK and the United States sayings recently have had a bit of a hotel not a mountain are you managing to keep some saying virtual going there yeah it's interesting because I've been in the U. K. over three years now but I realize this last year I go back and forth a lot right so I've never actually banned it just here in London you know whole full year I'm usually back in the states between three and six months out of the year depending on what what I'm working on so yeah it's been strange it's definitely the longest I've gone without travel a long time summer of twenty nineteen night toward a show to New York LA and London and I was supposed to be taking it to Edinburgh this project now bumps at December twenty twenty two it also had to reschedule things like my wedding and they're important life events but yeah it's been challenging but I think what's great is that although obviously there's times I was to negotiate I still have been able to do some collaborative work particularly with some artists in Los Angeles I recently completed a project called choreography can find it she collected six dance artists %HESITATION after movers from sort of all over but mostly I had a handful of them in Europe and then two of them in Los Angeles and we did these virtual movement workshops over the course of the week that we did together on zoom and that were all about mining the space for choreography which sounds maybe a little bit abstract right there was one day where we looked at lines and textures rates like the texture of your carpet or your couch like how do you transition that into movement right if you had to make a piece of furniture in your space your dance partner how can we create partnered movement with that objects that it feels participatory and then what if we take that movement okay be there in a place something totally different so you know he's really fun to play and they generated really beautiful work but I am yes some of those artists are based in California so we're you know he does mean sometimes weird hours for people doing the best to keep that up because I think it's important for me personally to just logistically to stay connected to my my U. S. collaborators as well it sounds like a healthy way of working as well if you can build and play time as you say with your work so you're working but it's fun and it's playtime and is probably very different from the typical working from home experience do you think that something that people Hey maybe Hausa inverted commas normal job he can only get office job rich Intel laptop all the time do you think that something that you know eating curries incorporating into your day is an exercise like that I mean it's not because I know you have an educational I'm spent so what he did as well I mean is that something you grades maybe China courage people today is think about those things I mean you turning your domestic space and she announced JD %HESITATION and just totally re framing Heidi thank and maze in space yeah I mean I think absolutely there's something to be said about getting to know your space in a new way and finding the possibility and the fun in that I mean even if it's something as simple as rearranging where you put your desk time to time like when the seasons change can you move your desk so you're maximizing your natural light breaking you change your view are you seeing different things at a different window slightly just minutes just to diversify your confined experience right one of the activities we did in our workshop process was to find a place in your space that you've never really looked very closely at such a really zoom in on it for me the example I gave was like that small space between the arm of your sofa and the wall right that like little gap like what's what's going on in there like what is it what does it look like what angle do there what's the light like what doesn't make me think of right and it is a little bit abstract right but it was really interesting and what sort of movement and creative impulse could come out of that really simple almost stupid thing of just really intimately engaging with corners of your apartment was really off the funds I think there is definitely a space to think about you know if you're someone that's open your laptop what can you do to get to know your home environment in a way that feels fresh that's great stuff it's really interesting way of thinking about things and it makes it fun because things are just so happy at the moment and then I think we need reminders set we should try and play and have more fun at times today to try and left things a little bit I was wondering as well if you're not working because you've done some voice over acting before in the past I was wondering it's not something that's quite viable for you at the moment is that something you've been doing lately hi just out park free yeah absolutely you know it's funny you should I just finished recording a radio play okay recently actually become a resident artist you know radio play company and was started by he's fifteen alumni and lovely talented man name Shaun Dale he's great the company is called borderless theater company in this particular project of theirs it's called radio plays and they're taking new work that hasn't been produced wrestling then produced a small scale and then they have this company of voice artists and they're recording this place they have a director that guides the work and then we release them sort of in podcast format so I have been doing that and then actually just schedule those just cast in another project and there is a great start recording soon so yeah it's definitely a really great way to be able to do some work right now for sure that's great to hear how did you get in safely Saxon and providing voice overs causing you some some documentary type park as well hi did you fall in salon the first place really just from I mean obviously it's always when it's on your mind right is something you can do as an actor right have that scale but when I was eight fifteen we had a unit specifically on voice acting and we had this wonderful professor command to just work with us on that in small groups and really got a lot of sort of personal coaching we got to go in you know a professional studio set up and really tested out play around and I found it really exciting and it hadn't occurred to me prior to that that I would get that scene buzz from it as I did performing onstage I always sort of relegated to this like we could do that if I may but I don't know if it's for me right beginning to flex in a real way with some of those give me life feedback I was like actually this is really fun and exciting so from U. sixteen that I just started sending out some demos here and there and trying to build up a little bit of work it's certainly something that I'm still you know I'm feeling fresh in and I'm wanting to continue to develop it's fun to you because you got to be I mean I say most of the work that I've done has just been my traditional voice started with a slight accent every once in awhile here and there but I find them people that do animation and you can put all these ridiculously other to you sounds and there's this anonymity that you don't have what you're the body onstage sort of freeing and in a fun way to because it's no longer about what you're looking like or who you are even in this way is when you're on stage performing you have a little different kind of freedom that I think it's fun to play and for sure I'm a great lover of animation and voice actors and stuff yeah I just really admire and I'd just imagine it must be so much fun because you're not self conscious by what you like I can be as silly as you need to fade together performance I you know so it's really ready because they're based on experiences making network we touched on this earlier but you mentioned that he writes as well so I mean you're doing a huge amount of stuff is there any part of your writing that you you want to go three of and a bit more detail and she said your poetry and perform spoken wires and spark an arms race what was it that drove you to write your own place and not just asked in somebody else's did you have a burning desire to have stories to tell that sort of thing Jack great question when I was a teenager and stuff I was really really into poetry and I did you know local and state poetry competitions and it was like something I was really had a lot of momentum with and then the acting in the dance took over and I stopped really writing for anyone other than myself up until very recently so it's something in the last three or four years that I've kind of just brought back into part of my creative identity but I really been enjoying doing that and it really started with writing that one person show when I was leaving drama school because I was like okay well I need work I'm graduating I was based here in the U. K. right with an American accent and I was going to be back in the states are part of the summer and I wasn't in a position to be auditioning for summer stock or anything that was going to need to be in the same place for a while because I had quite a few months ahead of me of bouncing around and part of our dissertation is fifteen was to write a short ten minute solo piece so I had the base of the work already and you know it existed and I really enjoyed what I came up with that I I wanted to give it more life and I think transcribing story to tell right part of what I think is important as an artist is to tell stories of people who maybe weren't able to tell their own stories at the time or similar me to guide current people and communities into a safe way of telling their own stories that might otherwise be difficult to tell so looking at this sort of other side's perspective and bringing that to light I think it's very important and the piece that I wrote was about a woman %HESITATION in the nineteen twenties who had been sort of wrongfully put into an asylum for having a child out of wedlock and and that sort of narrative is really a tale as old as time and initially I had developed a piece based on sort of the ongoing news about the mother and baby homes in Ireland specifically starting with two of them right back in the mid two thousands and for people that aren't aware I encourage you to maybe pop that into Google and you'll just be overwhelmed with the amount of incredible resources and news articles and things that you can find about this ongoing developing story of this system of institutions that went on for me up until the nineteen seventies in Ireland and it's a whole fascinating thing yeah I did my and my second master's dissertation sort of all about that but anyway that was the impetus in my brain the play ended up shifting and it took place in the U. K. it was based on a collection of different women who were real %HESITATION but I sort of research quite a few women stories and then pick the pieces for all of them to create this one fictional woman who appears in the play but it was because I wanted to explore this idea of institutionalized women women and shame right and this challenging Gino somewhat gender specific relationship between women and their bodies and what their bodies do and how that impacts their worth they are right so that writing to me very much came naturally out of this desire to tell the stories of these real women who at the time many of whom right ended up only getting out of these institutions as elderly women when they were finally being closed down only for people to discover that there wasn't anything wrong with them that would have merited the meeting some sort of special care that was that work and I think all of my writing comes from a place of really needing to get out someone else's story or a collection of people's stories I think that Santorini enough anyway if coming back full circle in a way because thanks so much of that is so important to see and hear and tracks and Irish diaspora X. stories as well you I'm from Northern Ireland and there's been so much theatrical work in the past twenty years since the agreement and so on and they said there's official pace where there's not really much fun things thrown at arts and culture but it's in those little spaces where those stories of trauma and collective trauma but from so many different angles are beginning to come straight a lot of that and that similar ways to what you're describing is some new projects that bring people from all different backgrounds together and I community theater projects and and their stories and then I suppose in a way it's out of west across I could see you were saying earlier it's based on their tree stories but their identities are anonymized but it's a really specific experience you know so it's really wonderful that you're engaging in that kind of work as well and these are stories that they probably J. have affective connections with similar things in all parts of the world but that you keep coming back to see these Irish questions and specifically the Irish woman's experience so I'm just thinking it's really lovely that you bring the sayings to lights and see an audience that's been hidden away from society for such a long time thank you and I think to particularly right in the Irish diaspora community in the United States there is this sort of selective curating of cultural understanding right and so a lot of it has to do with old ideas of nationalism and like a condo it it sort of stuck in time a little bit I think for some people what they cling to as sort of a desperate national identity I think what's missing in that conversation in a lot of space is certainly not an academic spaces but I'm kind of a pedestrian you know Irish American space is a connection to contemporary understanding I was Irish and non Irish national identity and also on the flip side of that taking a look at some of the historical parts that are more difficult to explore right like this collaboration of church and state organizations to not only institutionalized women but also to be reluctant to cooperate up until very recently %HESITATION in terms of opening up conversations about that and looking closely in sharing information with us right and then also the fact that there is this need to sort of been look internally as well and why that was able to go on when it did and how to some extent it was even a secret to some people in society at the time right depending on the sort of life you're living and the degree of privilege that you had that might not be something that ever came into your purview but for someone who lives down the road from you that could have shaped their entire life in a really catastrophic way and like you say those teams right a shame and secrecy and cultural sort of looking the other way on things that need advocacy are universal across the globe and when I presented my dissertation work which is called to the point of disappearance that focused specifically on to %HESITATION and sort of historical realities and then the contemporary implications and this is of course before the recent report which just came out and has been released I'm trying to make my way through all what is IT nine thousand pages of it when recreational reading but the piece was presented in September so is prior to the release of that information looking at affirmative it be objects not space to translate a feeling around that so that people that weren't necessarily informed on the specifics of the history could still walk into a space where they get a sense of all of those elements right the shame and the secrecy and that search for justice and I there were giant laundry sheets hanging from the ceiling at one point that we projected a film on to you and then we had seven hundred and ninety six individual baby socks number in a big pile in front of the queue and then myself as a performer in that piece durational mom and I'm just sitting there and sewing them together I didn't get through all seven hundred ninety six but had it been you know re presented I would continue to build from there and there is an element with that shadow puppet theatre where myself and in a non coated world we had to adapt to this but the audience was supposed to be invited to participate in cutting out B. is dolls and hanging them up in this larger than life sort of theater and ended up just being me because he couldn't physically involved them so is this sort of Trinity of object based sensory experiences right there also accompanied by the soundscape to sort of give all of these feelings without there needing to be a direct understanding because there has been a lot of narrative work done around these topics in the last five ten years or so lots of plays and site specific work and things that I think sometimes if people don't know enough about the topic can make people go oh well I don't know anything about that that's not for me but I had a few participants come through that really had absolutely zero prior knowledge she did walk away feeling how I was hoping it would feel so that was a nice way to exercise bringing those topics that are really important to me personally into a space where they can have the value and then personal value for anyone absent yet I imagine that's the physical presence of said sells socks and the sheets that's a massive number hi many people can imagine that many individual items and of course we're talking it bites bodies that those numbers are related to a little tiny probably some things and see find a way of visualizing physical icing that for people and confronting them I said say this is what that looks like that's incredibly powerful and amazing and deeply deeply sad so I imagine it was not necessarily an easy experience but I would say a very important one forest does abstract numbers are hi many finance stocks just lots and I think it's easier to put in a box and forget about it but if you can see it and you can what you know in an ideal world war Oxford walk among staff and top and the experience must be incredibly powerful that's exactly right and I and I was inspired by there's a lot of people protest art that was happening particularly when the pope came and visited I'm forgetting the name out of the group but there is an organization of women that had cut out little strings of paper people holding hands sort of thing they cut out the seven hundred ninety six of those and put them up on the gates and their images of baby shoes that people are bringing the candlelight vigils and seeing them on the ground response to that in objects I thought like you said the step our call and I was like what would happen if we actually I could settle the space with the correct number of these objects so that it is something that you're forced to confront in a real way I'm personally as well it was really challenging said I mean it was at a dark projects develop and certainly you know I was very hands on and I was collecting these objects and touching them and using them and it was certainly I think in some ways I mean for me personally I felt like some way of honoring some of those answers some of that energy in a way that was positive right like even though they're not people that first of all I got to live out their lines but also obviously people that I had direct connections with Mabel to sort of honor their existence by calling attention to it in some way I think it's important you know as well when you're creating to connect to the purpose of what you're doing especially when it is difficult material so you can power yourself through rather than really get too bogged down in in the realities of what you're looking at because it can be challenging when it such difficult material yeah it must be pretty tricky to find a balance between doing justice to the subject matter and keeping yourself mentally while while you're doing something like that and also %HESITATION approaching it and an ethical way ends hi Fardy patient and he's going to react and what way and not sort of saying it's a lot to juggle do you find that you have ways of work injury G. check in with people that sort of thing I mean in terms of them representation and it being ethical and that sort of thing that was a big concern for me going in right because I'm away here that it's not my story right like I didn't have a relative in that space like there are many and this is I think some people don't realize that there are very many living people right whose brothers or sisters those babies apart right whose mothers were in those time they're very much alive in an active many of them and speaking to politicians and organizing and telling their stories right now those resources are accessible so I did spend a lot of time going through people's accounts listening to advocates speaking to politicians hearing sort of what their priorities were and and some of them are different depending on the group right but trying to make sure that what I was doing wasn't advocacy for a cause that wasn't mine to advocate for but more in support of these Sir yeah more in the interest of just bringing awareness to something that current advocates were affected by it are wanting people to bring attention to and I think the challenging thing with this particular topic as well comes a little bit with the role of religion and and so that's really a key factor in the story and something that I certainly represent in the work as somebody that was brought up Catholic I feel I have at least a little bit more space to play in the representation of that because it's coming from my own right in terms of background but taking care to not alienate any audiences with the message that I'm communicating but also true and you know representing my feelings and understanding of how all those different socio political or religious elements sort of shaped that's right but in terms of keeping tabs on myself personally with the work you know it's five chat about it with my mother and my grandmother is that something that you know I have an interest in these things because of their interest as well right when the story of this broke when it did that to thousands that wasn't the first time that I heard about the sort of I was brought up with a little bit of a knowledge around the subject already said we chat about it and my grandmother who's ninety one an absolutely delightful state things you know like well you just are constantly having all of these really cheerful research projects what are you going to do next or how was your day or how can you know so just somebody that knows where you're working you can take you out of that space if that's all you're talking about because there certainly were parts of that process or my mother and my grandmother both would be like this is all you've been mentioned in the last few times I've been on the phone maybe let's take some time to discuss some of what you're doing to bring levity to this you know the stage because it was part of my dissertation as well so not only was a creating a work rehearsing it I was writing about it I was compiling a year's worth of research about it so certainly I think it is important to have someone that knows you know to voice that when that's your process whether it's your partner or your friends your family say Hey this is the amount of time devoting to this kind of work and I'm calling out now that I know I'm gonna need some monitoring here you could call me on it when it's consuming me when you notice that or if you could check in if I send you a message you know being an advocate for yourself in that way and reaching out to your network I think is key yeah that's a really important points yeah definitely because it's a lot to carry other people's trauma you know you can fail at and a post memory sense perhaps as well associations reconnection string a lineage back to the homeland but yeah I think it's a lot because I know certain MIT subbase it was not dissimilar areas that was traumatic relating to the complex and so on so it's a lot to carry so those other people's stories when their horror stories essentially and they're very very meals are all too real and you know you are dating west facing up to I mean you can't not be political affect something exact sincerely house said be prepared to confront their religion and anybody subscribe so that religion is like these people they said they said yeah they talk the lightest upright pro life celerity set with stock it is the work of art T. ask those confronting questions of people just invite them to maybe you should have to think I thought I'm just going to present this and you take it as you find it so yeah that's a really healthy approaches ten I probably should have taken more of what kind of approach myself the number of years ago but it's hard it is because it is like you and it's so important it's real people it's recent history set and it matters right and I think the key here in offering the stories as questions particularly I think particularly when it comes to religion right where that what's supposedly the heart of those institutions it's hard to write the idea is that you're supposed to be aiming for higher ideals than the average person right so even more so I think it's important to pose questions in that direction and for people that really are doing their best to live their lives in that way right I've seen some positive responses to that sort of challenge I think it is important time in Ireland also in the United States and I think globally to really have these conversations now so that we can unpack some of these really difficult incongruence he's right and be able to then voice and say yes this was inconsistent with what we say we want and yes that should not have happened and yes we're going to name all the ways the stakes remain and then be able to put that to rest and then move forward thank you so much and so powerful now I think more than ever and a lot of ways a lot of these issues are ready Prashant even in the United States Lindy because there's been so many hard fought rights have been rolled back over the last number of years they are related I think because if you cut time abortion access for what comes next year gonna start shaming people he have crisis pregnancies and it's just going to snowball where do you draw the line before it ends up becoming something like those long trees in those homes I think in a way it's a reminder that we need to have conversations about these difficult divisive and she's you know we need to be grown ups about that and people have pregnancies people get pregnant for all manner of reasons and all sorts of things happen and so it comes down to eight what do you want from women what you want from bodies that can get pregnant absolutely and it's and it's not like we haven't already lived there and seen the many many detrimental consequences not policing women's bodies and what damage that can do so you know it is interesting particularly in America where it is I think somehow this is that people are constantly Mr Mannering and nation of immigrants right that was taken from an existing group of people founded on the idea that everyone experienced persecution of all different levels from anywhere in the world should be able to come and live with their rights to practice their life as they choose right that's literally the definition of are very new country and yet somehow there's this imposing colonialist Christian European ness on to everyone's bodies and and right and I think what we've observed is that it's only divisive right and it it's not constructive anyway to try and be policing people's bodies but yeah I could I'm sure at you could as well go on and on about this for quite a long time but fortunately and I think Joe Biden is a great example he somebody that is outspoken about being a man of faith right like identifies as being Catholic and also recognizes that his job is to lead a free democratic society said his personal beliefs on abortion for example our birth control whatever they may be don't actually matter at all because that's not his job his job was to govern for a diverse nation of people so looking forward to the separation of fundamentalist ideology from ability to govern I think we're really overdue for some of that yes I know I know it got his work cut out for him really does or guy extra ice cream for gel exciting times this tentative times but exciting times it's really amazing to see work like yours as part of such a huge network of telling these really important stories and I think you know you mentioned earlier I mean being somewhat of an outsider I happen to think that the outsider I mean because in a way if your night cider best affect and the door maybe that's the best kind of approach you know and I I see a lot of value in being able to see things from the art sites and to have that perspective because I know I encountered this a lot when I was doing research by northern Ireland's and you know I mean this from there I was in the playoffs but no where to places to Hanjour sometimes because people do you know where we are and %HESITATION what side of the track she might be from and that sort of stuff but I think whether you're naive or not you can ask the naive stranger and really pack a punch I think I see a lot of volume now I think it's hugely important that you've done this work yeah I think yeah I think to you know when I at some point it could have been sort of interrupted my dissertation I was interested in trying to find some sort of temporary home for the peace in the states because there is all this enthusiasm around Irish American nous but then sometimes a reluctance or ignorance to doing the work of educating so I'd love to be able to sort of share this there and get some eyes on in the states to sort of igniting awareness in some spaces where maybe it needs to be ignited but I think too yeah it's been this interesting last few years of being somewhat other right even just being you know immigrant that sounds silly for me calling myself that but like coming to live in another country even though I come with a lot of privilege and don't really experience a lot of the other things the same way that somebody else might there are certain things that I've experienced and observed and encountered that I'm like oh wow this is giving me such a unique perspective a tiny tiny glimpse into what it must be like for people that are coming from extremely different cultures into totally new cultures you know different languages getting to glimpse at that for Stanton has really been wonderful I think of a gift for me and also being able to look critically this is something hopefully I'll have the opportunity to do a little more research on and explore a little bit with some community generated performance practice in the future I have some work on building towards us down the pipeline but looking comparatively at the our staff spread in the U. K. and in the US particular comparing London and New York and taking a look at where those differences arise and where they come from how it informs the creative and performing live cultural work that's come out of those spaces you know like you say answer straddling all of those little zones I have been in and out which is a nice place to be excellent yeah that's science last name so I'm very conscious step I've taken up quite a lot of your time and you've been so generous about a talking Siri so many of your ideas and direction is there anything that we haven't talked to you to say that you'd really like to mention so that people know about it stay with your work I guess it's just that you know like I said a lot of what we've been doing virtually is workshops that I'll create and then leave but the group of artists to then generate whether it be a Filmer virtual gallery or something like that I was actually just chatting this morning collaborating with someone who runs a dance school was looking to adopt some of my workshops to be used for kids right so if there are any practitioners out there that are interested in creating some somewhat misspoke workshops to run with your theater communities I'm very happy to hear from people who are maybe wanting some support for some guidance or just about some ideas off of in terms of generating something like that and also we are running a little virtual project right now but hopefully we'll have a home as sort of a projection element to the future project later on but something called doorstep dances never to be sharing on our social media starting mid February and it's essentially just a bunch of movers who created really interesting movement work exclusively in their door frames and death we're doing it with a little virtual fundraiser for U. S. nonprofit called dancers responding to aids which is a really all nonprofit who I had the privilege of working with as a young dancer they do incredible work and right now they're raising funds to be able to provide meals for people in the performing arts who have been affected negatively by coding HIV related illnesses that need extra support due to the crisis so we're doing the stress of dance virtual project to raise some funds for them I will be putting that out on our Instagram and social media channels starting in February so if you want to have a little click over and watch some really interesting movement explorations we love for you to check that out too wonderful and he sent them in to goes that that's what's or what %HESITATION what kind should we be looking for for that J. yes that's just acting in the arts collective on Instagram that's fantastic thanks do you have any other socials or your website that you want to point people to words to keep up with those projects shops or Instagram is probably the closest to the polls because we're posting a lot of stuff on there and I website is while it's through my website so just J. Donovan dot org I mean you get to the home page you can click to either look at my stuff for then you can click the indigo arts collective side so you can head over there for more information as well and then on the website is where you can sort of see and hear some exact projects I've shared with you all about today their video clips and sound clips and some press and things like that that's wonderful really fantastic thank you because you've been through the ringer I think what we've had to re create the peppy topics and we've had a lot of joy that's coming through in a lot of your current projects as well so that's really adequate positive notes and done after you went to that dark there so so I really encourage everybody to the Cape flats shade on offense thank you so very much for your time today is really generous of you to talk through everything and send your work just signed so wonderful and important so thank you so much for joining me today thanks hi I really enjoyed it and I have so many wonderful questions about some of what you shared about your research as well so we'll have to connect later for me to hear more about that absolutely SO talk your ear off I thought

Audiovisual Cultures episode 71 – Be The Lighthouse with Michelle Myrick automated transcript

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hello and welcome to audiovisual cultures with me paula blair i am delighted this time to be joined by artist and life coach michelle myrick who very generously talked to me about her life and work in song writing painting teaching and how her creative practices inform her coaching michelle has very kindly offered a free online workshop on using art to embody awareness taking place on the 15th of august 2020 do visit forward slash art to sign up and that link is in the show notes for you huge thanks to our patreon members for sticking with the podcast throughout trying times please do keep up to date with all the goings on on the socials we are av cultures on twitter and facebook and ivyculturespod on instagram you can also find michelle on insta as michelle myrick underscore coach i got a lot out of listening to michelle and i’m sure you will too my computer had difficulties towards the end of the call hence the different image line and we were cut off but we spoke for nearly an hour and it was in our i find enriching and enlightening and i really hope you enjoy this as much as i did hello michelle hi paula how are you today i’m doing fantastic and yourself i’m well thank you um so you’re joining us from norway i am that’s very exciting yes yes thank you for having me on i’m delighted to be here oh thank you for coming on um i was thinking because um i’m in the northeast of england and it’s super bright all the time so it must be even more daylight for you at the moment it is well i mean we’re wearing southern the southern part of norway so we don’t we don’t have the midnight sun but pretty close to it it doesn’t actually really really get dark um especially like early in the spring april may i have a little trouble adjusting because i’m from canada so we we have normal normal i guess you know daylight and and darkness but uh we’re in the part of canada where i come from but here it my sleep cycle gets affected early in the spring because uh it’s like all of a sudden it doesn’t get dark until 11 or barely dark at 11 you know and now i mean even even getting close to midnight i guess it’s still quite light out you know kind of thing and you know you’re awake with the birds at 3 30 4 a.m so it’s yeah it does affect the sleep patterns no doubt um so but yeah so you’re um primarily would you call yourself a painter as an artist then um well i guess i came to painting a little bit late in life to be honest um i’ve been a singer songwriter musician uh i guess that’s the the longest label i’ve had uh in my career in my life um i guess i’ve been playing music for about 35 plus years now professionally and um recorded a couple of albums just recently my own solo album um and uh i guess painting was something that i picked up uh only a few years ago but it has brought all parts of me to the table um i i found that it opened up something different inside me that music hadn’t you know i’ve i’ve had a lot of um i guess insights from music from writing music i do a lot of my own songs and things like that but something about the painting felt different and when i started painting my songs that’s all the whole everything changed everything started opening up and um going deep deep deep into self-discovery true through creative outlets actually letting myself go back and relive some of the painful experiences of my life and really finding resolution there and then presenting it in front of people as a live performance you know that that really uh had a huge impact well it was hard to do to be that vulnerable because i mean you know when you write your songs you write your songs about your life from your own perspective your own challenges your own obstacles those kinds of things that’s one thing to get up and sing a song in front of people and then you know to paint it to do a visual representation of that brought so much more emotional um i don’t want to say baggage but emotional uh stuff to the table to the process right it went a little deeper and people really related to that and i believe paula the reason why is that even though we all you know have different experiences but if i’m on stage talking about an experience of mine that brought me extreme joy or extreme pain you’re relating your joy or your pain to mine even though our circumstances are different we all live on a similar emotional plane with how we deal with life right so when i got myself in front of audiences and sharing this sharing my life um yeah it was a precarious kind of place to be because i was opening myself up so much you know and in order to be authentic with us i really had to go into those emotions again in order to present them so the the song series show is what i developed and i just this is my little uh pamphlet i’m still doing that still doing that show internationally but what that led to was audiences they wanted more because i mean how much can you actually give in a two-hour period right in front of people how much story how much you know background can you actually give and um so i came back from canada after having a successful run of sold-out shows there and um decided i was going to write a book now that process the process of taking my own story and

i don’t know in a sense characterizing myself so having to look at myself from that you know from that distance from that observer’s view and going even deeper even deeper than what i did in writing the song series show and the stories behind the songs and paintings that really uh i want to say cracked me open that’s the odd words to use it absolutely um opened me wide open and it was true those creative processes the songs the painting and the book that i knew i had a larger message that i wanted to share with the world and i think life coaching which is what i’ve become since i’ve become a certified life coach is one way for me to bring all those parts of myself to the table to help other people find resolution in their lives to actually uncover the messages and the lessons from their own experiences and then how to use them how to stand on top of them in fact you know rather than letting those experiences weigh us down like a weight around our necks you know but standing on top of our experience standing on top of the truth of who we are and moving forward with that that that has been life-changing for me and i think the people that i’m working with it’s having an incredible impact as well

um so yeah there’s there’s a lot there that we can get into a little bit more because it’s fascinating those connections across different media that you’re engaging with um it’s fascinating what you’re saying about starting to paint your songs and i was wondering about the difference between with a song you would re-perform that so is there maybe a sense of reliving if you re-perform something but with the painting you do it and it’s over and you can look at it but it’s a really good question but i tell you that the interesting thing from my perspective as the artist as the creator was that you know some of these songs i had written 20 years 30 years ago and when i created the painting of course i’m a different person now you know we’re always growing we’re always evolving we’re always expanding and we’re always gaining different insights so as a more mature woman i could look at what my 20 something self wrote and see her pain see see what she was trying to process you know back all those so many years about 30 plus years ago and i mean being able to look at myself from that kind of stepped back that’s really interesting like that is really interesting and and that’s kind of what i present in the live performances is that juxtaposition between the two michelles no the younger one that wrote the song and the the woman that wrote that that made the painting and how they that journey what that journey was all about you know that’s what my book is about somewhere here yeah like i mean my book is called stepping stones and it’s it’s actually about that it’s about that process of learning that process of you know a lot a lot of people say oh just forget the past now i’m the kind of coach that says the opposite because i really think that the golden nuggets of our life experience are in the past of course and from what have made us who we are and it is the things that we’ve gone through it is the experiences that we’ve had that have shaped us as individuals that have formed you know what we represent and how we like present ourselves in our lives you know and where we want to go with that i mean we take all of that with us so i don’t think we need to forget our past but i think we need to process it and that’s what i help people do i help people process their past to find what is in there that they haven’t seen before that they can um i guess use as a stepping stone you know use as that standing on top of their of their lives and moving forward from there you know having their past empower them rather than weigh them down that’s a leap it takes work it takes a lot of mind management which is what my certification as a life coach has taught me how to deliver right how to use these different techniques and modalities to to actually help people make that kind of a transformation because it’s powerful it’s powerful you know because we define ourselves a lot by our past yes right and and some of us are carrying a really heavy dead weight of our past but i help people lighten that up see it differently you know and use it listen i always say this you know we go through so much to gain our insights to gain our wisdom wouldn’t it be a shame to let that go to waste yeah i can’t argue with that you know i mean let’s use it let’s use what we’ve been given to empower ourselves and have an impact on other people and you know that’s not about going out and saving the world but it’s about having a healthier relationship with your partner having a healthier relationship with your children with your own parents with your co-workers with your friends it’s it’s about how you live your life you know it’s about what you bring to it how much awareness and mindfulness and everything that you can gain from what you’ve been i mean to me i was trying to run away from my past forever forever until i picked up a paintbrush you know i mean it’s it’s incredible what has happened but it’s that creativity that has like opened me up and now i’m actually using that when i deliver my coaching programs i use creativity as a method as a means to get to that deeper part of ourselves you know to access that inner knowing i don’t care what your college your wisdom your guidance i like to call it the souls compass actually you know because um many of us either we’ve been given a map for life or we’ve created one ourselves you know that that says okay you gotta get a good education then you gotta get a good job then you gotta get a a partner perhaps some kids a house all these things are supposed to you know these are the landmarks on our map of life that are supposed to bring us happiness right but how many of us actually get this and this and this and this and this and this and are still not happy you know it’s not things it’s not those map landmarks that make us happy what make us happy what makes us happy comes from within is that inner guidance is that thing if we follow that and where that leads us that’s what creates inner happiness and fulfillment right so i teach people how to go there instead you know and um it’s it’s an honor and it’s a privilege honestly to see people light up you know from the about their own lives about their own life they have it all in size it’s already there it’s just the light has been turned down yes i think we so easily become defined by the negative things and then in pushing the negative things away we’re only showing a performative positive side of ourselves but to actually confront that it’s a huge it’s um it’s a very brave thing to see i would say it’s not easy but here’s what i would like your listeners to know on the other side of that oh that’s the rainbow stuff that’s that’s where the goal is on the other side of that because you are truly living who you are you’re owning it you’re taking responsibility for your own life you’re taking steps that are true to your own purpose to your own heart to your own soul’s compass and honestly i i i don’t know why it took me so long to get there you know because it’s such a beautiful place to live your life from to be guided in that way from from inner insight not from any of this stuff out here any of the things that we can obtain and achieve and you know those things are good i’m not putting those down but to be guided to be to be driven by purpose from the inside it’s it’s a different way of living and it’s it’s beautiful it’s beautiful and i love seeing that turn on in people it’s just amazing


i know confidence and confidence building is part of your work as well but do you ever encounter people who feel a bit tentative about the creative side of exploring that because they think oh i’m not good at drawing or i’m not good at painting or you have absolutely how would you overcome that i would say at 9.5 people out of 10 feel that way and you know something i completely get that um but the process that i lead people through um dispels that completely because the way that i teach people to create i actually developed a step process a five-step process and it’s it’s about accessing guidance from within it’s about making decisions from intuition and it’s about bringing different parts you know of your past to that and creating something meaningful for your life i mean okay art any kind of art is is uh subjective right you know you might love uh the mona lisa i might hate it i might i might say like what’s that all about you know i don’t get it right so it’s it the main thing is is to make something to be able to create something that has led you through a process of knowing with yourself you don’t need artistic experience but what a lot of people find when they let themselves go when they allow it right that they actually do create something that they love yeah and they proudly like display in their homes you know um and and they can’t believe it’s like they they’re like i i can’t believe that i’ve done that that i’ve made that that i knew how but we we are creative as humans you know we are we are creatures we are creative creatures and um we have so much wisdom potential and inside of us that we don’t even tap into that we don’t let ourselves go we don’t allow it you know and out of those 9.5 that didn’t think they could draw a stick man you know i would say at least six or seven of them make something that they’re extremely proud of that they has blown their minds that they even created it and the others make something that they have such profound meaning and connection with because it came from within you know came from within now they might not want to display it in their living room but i bet you it’s hanging in their bedroom you know it’s right because it’s part of it’s part of and that’s the important thing it’s it’s that process creative process that opens up the end result is just a bonus you know it’s just a bonus right you know um i’ve had people go through my program my art program in particular where i do this step thing i have a separate course just for that um and they they have gone on to become you know either visual artist or you know i had somebody make um a wire sculpture at one time and you know like it’s just you can take this process that i have and make anything it doesn’t have to be a painting because that’s not the important part right the important part is listening to your intuition letting your soul speak right and and just being the vehicle for that and and letting what comes out form takes shape and and when people create something like that and they can look at it they’re not looking at that object they’re looking at their experience you know that’s the difference yeah that’s the difference in creating this way because i often think about finished artworks as the documentation of the process that went happens for it to be made and there’s a performative element in that so when somebody’s making something they’re enacting they’re performing not just the act of making it but it’s that it’s that thinking it through the creative process the um the trying stuff and maybe there’s evidence or it’s covered over of not quite getting it right maybe trying something else and so on and so forth you know so is that is that something that you explore a bit as well possibly for sure i mean i mean some of my most popular paintings came from mistakes you know came from something that i did by mistake and i was like oh i kind of like that you know let’s go with that then like you know i might have started out with with some idea for a painting but you kind of have to be the vehicle and you kind of have to let come what’s going to come i mean whenever i go into my studio i go in yeah i might say okay today i want to do a landscape or today i want to do something abstract or today i want to do whatever and but i don’t really have control over that you know and and if i went down with the exact same you know circumstances tomorrow i’d create something different again because every single minute we are somebody different than the minute we were before so what needs to come out is gonna come out right i’ve had a couple of people go through my program a couple of times the art the art workshop and uh they’ve created something completely different both times you know because we are different from time to time to time we are processing different things from time to time to time right you know we are faced with different challenges or obstacles or insight or even potential from time to time to time so it’s it’s a process that you can use over and over and over you know to just access okay what’s going on with me today you know what needs to come up today what what what’s going on in here you know it’s a way of reconnecting with yourself actually and you can do that to writing i’ve had people go through it and do it to writing like i said someone made a sculpture one time they make paintings they do collages they whatever it’s that act of creating the act of allowing the act of letting go right and kind of turning this off and turning this on so hard to do it’s not easy but it’s possible and it’s possible to be i like i i bring people through a process of being able to do that you know right it’s uh you know to help guide them i guess you know because everyone goes at it in their own ways because we’re all different we’re all different but it’s possible for everybody if one person can do it it’s possible for anyone yeah right um and on your website there’s quite a lot of focus on it’s trying to guide people in how to tell their stories and that’s how you can understand the self and become aware it’s um the different ways of expressing your story um and you’ve got behind you in the in the image there one of your really gorgeous paintings and um you tend to have quite a maritime or you know c metaphors um so i was wondering if you’d like to talk about ear b the lighthouse metaphor that you’re using in your current programs well there’s kind of a story behind that um uh probably not the one you’re expecting either but um well to begin with i guess full disclosure i grew up at the lighthouse in um in newfoundland canada and newfoundland is the most eastern province of canada and um i i come from the east coast of the island of netherlands and in fact my my ancestors are six generations of lighthouse keepers in my family my ancestors took the distress call for the titanic gosh you know way back then in the early 1900s so we have we have quite a uh heritage of keeping in my family um so the name seems quite obvious to come from there uh but it’s it’s not really uh well i just recently and and this the kind of stuff that happens i’ll you know let your listeners in on this uh when you start tapping into your intuition uh on a regular basis you you start to sense things you start to i call it intuitive hits you get these intuitive hits you know um different things i used to get over the years like you know you’re driving along and you’re going more than the speed limit and you know all of a sudden you’ll hear a voice in your head oh you should slow down you know and then all of a sudden you see a police car up front you know that would have caught you for speeding or you know different different things you know you have you have this intuition we have we all have this intuition that we don’t pay attention to so much but once you start paying attention to it you start uh you start sensing you start feeling more i believe now there’s a little forest here close to where we live that i like to go walk and it’s absolutely enchanting uh you know the trees here in norway are straight up pretty much and they’re very tall and i grew up on a rock a rocky part of the island even where i live is it’s very very where i grew up was very very rocky no trees and if there was anything that had any chance of surviving it’s probably only a couple of feet high and it’s twisted in every shape of the alphabet you know it’s just because of the wind because of the extreme weather so when i go into that uh forest like i just feel like i’m in a fairyland you know uh and anyway this one morning about a couple of months ago i was um i was walking there and the way the sun was coming and hitting on this one tree there was covered in masks but the tree came up and then it took a bend you know so i was like oh that’s so unusual i hadn’t noticed it before so i stopped to take a picture and lots of times i take a picture of things and as i was getting you know finished putting away my camera whatever my phone and started walking past i had this this sense i won’t call the voice because it wasn’t really like that um touch the tree or touch it you know that that kind of feeling so i went over and i put my hands on the tree and i have never i’ve never had any kind of um like healing or or any kind of sensations or anything like that before and i felt a thumping in my hand automatically my brain said that’s your pulse michelle that’s your pulse then i started paying attention to it and it wasn’t it wasn’t like a regular pulse and it wasn’t in the place where you should where you would get a pulse right and then my two hands started to tingle so i was like okay there’s some gee whiz i’ve never felt like this before and so i closed my eyes and it was like i felt like when you drop a pebble in the water and you know when it ripples out i had that feeling of like coming out from me and then coming back into me and it was almost like like waves in the ocean in a way you know like being on a boat almost that feeling in your head of being you know a little bit off equilibrium which was fine dandy um and i had woken up with a pain in my wrist because i have an old sprain from when i was a kid but when i took my hands off the tree the pain was gone it was literally it was gone it hasn’t come back since so now i long story i’m sorry if now i always touch the trees every time i’m over there i try different trees i get different sensations i get different feelings i get different um sort of like uh sensations i guess i mean this might sound crazy to some of your listeners and to you probably as well but whatever about it i there’s something there that i can’t ignore and i know now i’ve done it so many times that i’m not making it up every now and then i get that pulse again not always but every now and then i’ve tried to have my hands up high have my hands down low having them that way it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter where i put them with the you know right kind of thing anyway but but one of the one day i took my hands off the tree that i was wet and those words be the lightest hmm just popped into my head being lighthouse and i said what’s that about you know and and i came home and i was talking to my husband about it and be the lighthouse okay well what’s the lighthouse about the lighthouse is about being strong you know it’s about standing withstanding any storm it’s about you know uh being like solid you know certain kind of thing it’s a it’s a beacon of hope and of courage and it’s what guides people to ashore and you know it’s it’s it shines a beam out like you know uh and i said my goodness that’s what i’m doing in my coaching that’s what i’m doing in my coaching i’m helping people turn on the light inside you know i’m helping them get you know more confidence in themselves more belief in themselves more courage to to be themselves you know more certain about where they’re going in their lives i was like be the lighthouse that’s it that’s it that’s it so i sat down then and developed a full-fledged program around it and uh it’s uh it’s had an incredible impact absolutely incredible impact i’m so proud of it but i mean it came true my intuition and it’s it’s brought all parts of me to the table again you know it’s the teacher in me i’m i’m a registered teacher by trade no i i graduated oh i won’t tell you how many years ago was too many it’s a long long time ago and you know so i mean my curriculum development skills come into play here you know um also i’m bringing art uh processes through writing to creating bits and pieces of my soulful art making workshop come into this program as well um and helping people like understand what do i want you know and really define what is that what you know and then laser beam in on what you need to do the do part and align yourself energetically with that you know but there’s a lot of mind management in the first couple of weeks there’s a lot of mind management techniques and things like that around you know around thinking because everything comes back to without everything everything we think we’re guided by our feelings but we’re not our feelings are created from our thoughts you know if you wake up someday and you’re feeling terrible you just gotta ask what am i thinking about who’s making me feel so terrible you know and once you can get to that what you once you figure out what that is what am i thinking about myself or about the situation or about whatever and then switch that you automatically change your feeling which changes your behavior which changes your results of your life so it it really does go back to top control and sorry for the lack of tea hsn that’s the other part of me i can hear it yeah don’t worry at all don’t apologize for anything like that yeah it’s uh yeah it’s like a strange accent for a canadian i know but a massive place it’s uh got angel accents yeah i mean and and the area where i grew up was heavily populated by by uh people from the uk actually yeah yeah yeah but yeah so i mean that’s that’s kind of um that’s kind of where i am these days and uh trying to to help people turn on their light yes and with every resource that i have

it’s um it’s a refreshing thing to hear about because i feel like we get mired down in hearing stories of selfishness and um maybe that’s changed a little bit in recent months with the pandemic and everything but um you know it’s it’s so nice to find people who are they have they have these talents so they have these experiences and um it’s a very you i mean you must make yourself very vulnerable in taking lived experiences allowing them bare and using them to help other people do the same but to to build back and to become stronger for your future so um it feels like a really positive and there’s a this is an ideal time to do that because it feels like well i don’t know we’re just at a we could be at a turning point i think in that connection with nature especially with our the natural world and maybe remembering those roots that well we are creatures and we haven’t evolved that much beyond it and our lives are very ruled and facilitated by technology at the moment but you know if you feel that compulsion to go and hug a tree maybe just go and hug a tree because maybe just go and hug a tree you know you know i mean spend some time like well for me sitting by the water such a profound impact on me yes you know or like gardening you know if you can’t do anything if you’re stuck in a little apartment with you know with a windowsill you can garden you can grow herbs but just you know having like you said all of that connection a connection with life you know and i mean to go back to that vulnerable part you just said like oh goodness i i guess it has taken me to get to here to understand that the thing that i thought was making me so weak is actually my strength that is my strength you know but it took owning it right it took taken responsibility for my actions i mean i lived as a victim for a very very long chunk of my life you know because i’ve had some horrific things happen to me and um i’ve experienced severe loss in my life and that’s not something easy to come back from it takes it’s taken me decades to process it you know and it’s the thing that i thought was my weakness but actually by going into it understanding how i you know got trapped inside that victim mindset how i let that experience those experiences of my life be my excuse now owning that is difficult right that’s the part of the that’s the work of this work right is actually owning up owning up to how you’ve been treating yourself to how you’ve been behaving and to how you’ve been you know towards other people like i i wasn’t always the kindest person on the planet because i felt like i had been dumb wrong by yes you know so i was angry i was i was bitter and i i allowed myself to to be that in the world because i felt i had a right to yes i felt entitled to it you know but until i owned up to that and understood how it was not creating the kind of life that i wanted to live until i swallowed that pill if you will that i was creating my own suffering you know it took getting there in order to change things and that my friend is mind management that is you have to be diligent about the kind of thoughts you’re thinking yeah you know you have to operate from a place of potentiality and possibility and abundance instead of lack and scarcity and all you know this happened to me and that happened to me so because i can’t because because that’s that’s bs let me tell you that’s bs that’s something you’re just using as an excuse

i get real with people you know and that’s the kind of coach that i am because if if i see that someone is uh you know ready wanting to change but they’re getting trapped in their own mindset i’m going to call it out i’m going to try to help them to process that to release it to reframe it you know in a different way so they can move forward i mean that is what growth and expansion is all about but it’s uncomfortable it’s uncomfortable because you know your brain is going to tell you something different because our brains are built to you know to to keep us alive to keep us comfortable to keep us safe that’s the job of the brain so that brain is always telling you oh don’t go out there don’t take that risk stay home on the couch you know stay home be safe don’t try anything new but then you have a higher mind up here that’s telling you oh i could possibly i could possibly but you know for a lot of us this lower mind down here drowns it out it absolutely drowns out that higher mind and i help people switch that about i help them listen more to their higher mind and understand you know have sympathy for their lower brain that’s trying to to um to protect them but you don’t have to pay attention to it you don’t have to you know it’s a process it’s a process right and it’s work but it’s it’s not something that’s impossible to change for sure i’m proof i’m proof of it you know and if i can do it anybody can do it trust me

really yeah yes it takes a very long time to learn how to check yourself and also that you should as well because you get i mean i i and i know so many other people who’ve been there time again and still go there where you’re blaming yourself for things and then you get mired and

very negative feelings towards yourself and i suppose one thing that i use is imagine one of your best friends and somebody was saying those things about that person how would you feel and you think well i would that you with a superhero outfit would come out you know why can’t you be that friend to yourself you know exactly but i mean sometimes like when when the you know what is that phrase they say when a student is ready the teacher will appear like if you’re ready if you’re actually ready if you’re fed up enough living the way you’re living if you feel deep in your soul that there’s something else for you in your life that you’re ready you know you’re ready then to make a change you’re you’re open to to different perspectives to different ways of thinking i’ve seen people make a shift within a couple of weeks paula like really truly changed their lives around it within a couple of weeks i mean that’s profound you know and and it is just a shifting perspective uh i could say or you could say or you know they could read something or do a certain activity and just a light bulb comes out you know it’s different things for different people so like even though i say yes it’s work and yes it’s uncomfortable and yes you have to be diligent about it you know it can happen quite quickly for people who are like they’re ready you know you’ve tried this that the other thing and it’s you know you ha it hasn’t gotten you where you want to be right and and you still feel like there’s more but you don’t know what that more is that’s the time to go inside that’s the time to tap into your souls compass that’s the time to go in there and find out what is it what is it that sets me on fire you know what do i what do i want to do with my life you know i i am in my show in the song series show i don’t know if you’ve seen this or if anyone listening has seen it jane fonda did a um a ted talk i believe it was ted talk now i might be wrong about that but you can i think it is a ted talk called the third act okay i don’t know if you’ve seen it but she talks about how you know you reach a certain point in your life when you know you you have to come to terms with okay you know time is kind of running out here what do i really want to do what is my third act right where where am i going to get that fulfillment and she says something really wise there and i i actually refer to this in my show is that it’s not the uh well where do i put it now it’s not the not the experiences that make us wise it’s the wisdom that we take from the lessons that’s different right when you look at that it’s not our experiences that make us wise but it’s the wisdom that we take from them in other words it’s the perspective it’s how we look at things it’s how we look at our lives we can choose to look at our lives as a victim or as a warrior right we we can choose our thoughts when that turned on when that idea like just latched on to me i was like oh my gosh oh my god you know and it’s it’s changed everything that one little thought right and it’s never too late in life i think it’s probably an important thing to point out would you get a range of ages in your workshops i do i do um from people generally though they’re in their probably early 40s i have some people in their 70s right you know it’s uh which is kind of smackdown where i’m in the middle of i’m 55 myself uh in a couple of weeks time and uh actually next week and uh yeah and thank you and um you know i i think it’s it’s it sort of goes back to this jane founder thing is that you do reach a point in your life because you know in our 20s in our 30s we’re busy oh my god we’re busy we’re you know we’re doing all the things doing all the stuff and uh building careers and families and all this kind of stuff and getting educated and all that stuff and you know we don’t necessarily think about um our life being on a time clock when really it is you know i mean since the day we were born we’ve been dying yeah yeah right so but when you get to this point in your life i think and and you still feel there’s more you know what happened for me around 43 right uh and i don’t know something shifts it’s like i’m i gotta find this out i can’t i can’t die what i find in this house what it is i’m supposed to do here what it is i’m supposed to do in my life you know what what is that thing right you know and and it’s it can take some time to to discover it right but it’s possible completely completely possible and you’re never too old to learn new tricks let me tell you yeah right have you learned anything new yourself recently oh my goodness i’m always learning i’m a i’m an avid reader and of course you know running an online business and covet kind of little little fire underneath me for this uh getting things up online i’ve had to learn how to build websites and landing pages and you know capture forms and mail systems and integrating all of that when doing social media and all that stuff so i mean you know that’s a big chunk of what i have to do as well if i want to get my message out there is coming and talking to people like you paula you know yeah right so yeah i mean it’s it’s it is a a process i i never considered myself a techie not in any stretch of the imagination but the things that i have had to learn how to do since i started painting which is only three years ago you know in 2017 and uh i if you had to tell me uh in december 2016 that i would have built a website that i was taking contracts internationally to paint that i’d be after writing a book recording a cd becoming a life coach i would say you’re crazy right you know i could not have seen all that but now i can see how everything has led me to here this is my purpose this is why i’m so passionate is why i come alive when i talk about these things you know it’s why i’m so driven to help people achieve transformation in their lives you know it comes straight from my heart and soul right

um okay i’m just thinking

yeah um i’m just answering my questions because we’ve touched on a lot of stuff anyway and

yeah i mean i was wondering as well because i think just to think about your life coaching again a little bit um because i know uh in myself i’m sure many listeners out there possibly even yourself in the past as well have struggled with things like confidence and assertiveness and i mean when people are undergoing the training and the guidance with you maybe there it’s going to take a while to you know get to a point where you can own your confidence you know you can be confident you can because i think it’s something that’s especially difficult for women i think there’s something just hardwired maybe it’s uh at social conditioning or something that we’re just hardwired to be uh diminutive small tiny things oh i shouldn’t take up the space oh i shouldn’t speak um and i mean is that you is that something in particular you can target in the creative processes and the workshops and that sort of thing i mean how would you maybe approach that sort of problem um i mean the first thing that comes to my mind is that yes as women we are hardwired to be nurturers you know the man is the gatherer the woman is the nurturer but we both have men and women we both have masculine and feminine energies right and you know like in in a lot of ways women have uh had to tap into their masculine energy in in the last few decades okay think about it i’m not sure about your parents and your grandparents but i know mine mine were either worked from home like we had a little small grocery store my mom worked in my grandmother didn’t know she took care of her like the nine children you know right and uh you know it was that she was the nurturer the caretaker that that’s what we’re hardwired for but in the last several decades you know four or five decades women have had to tap into their masculine energy quite strongly to survive in that man’s corporate world in the business world so you know we we really have surpassed in in that way in so many ways of having to be able to um be driven you know and and be focused and get the job done and all of these things and what has happened in as a result is that we have denied a lot of our nurturing feminine energy which also involves self-care yeah yeah we’re taking care of ourselves you know we’ve kind of forgotten about that in so many ways because we’ve had to be so focused on our masculine energy but here’s the thing that i feel a shift in in the last decade or so is that the feminine is rising the feminine energy is rising the planet needs it mother earth is crying you know we’re witnessing that right now so i mean this feminine energy of care is becoming so much more important than it ever was is becoming more visible the need for it the need to have more of a balanced approach you know for men and for women there’s a lot of men out there suffering yes suffering because they’re not allowed to experience their feelings they’re not allowed to to process they’re not allowed to feel you know they they have been so focused masculine energy you know but they have the feminine energy as well right soldiers there’s a shift happening i i honestly believe in planetarily shifts shift happening right now and you know in all seriousness everything is energy everything is energy and i believe the feminine energy is on a rise so women and i hope men equally are starting to understand that we do need to take self-care and you know something once you start taking care of yourself once you start honoring who you are once you start having more respect for the for the body the person the mind the soul that you are confidence starts to grow just that one thing if you just increase self-care if you give yourself that five minutes sitting by the water in thought you know just for yourself just for yourself you’re not having to think about your kids or your parents or your job or your wedding just just giving yourself that time picking some wildflowers and putting them in front of your desk on your desk or on your bedside or you know just something that makes you smile that’s self-care self-care doesn’t have to be you know going for a weekly massage and a pedigree and a manicure you know that’s that’s lovely don’t get me wrong that’s lovely but we can do so many tiny little things of self-care that helps us honor who we are helps us respect who we are which helps us build confidence in who we are you know that i think that’s really really important um i actually created a painting called virago about this a few years ago it’s um it’s an image of a very feminine looking woman and and and it’s because i strongly feel this that we need to tap into that feminine part of ourselves you know bring that out more um virago by the way is a greek word i don’t know if you’re familiar it’s yeah it’s um joan of arc for example was a virago but a virago is a female that is in the sense really um more masculine or visibly masculine very very strong confidence you know and has a lot of masculine characteristics like john rock for example right but in my painting where i go i’m while i’m honoring that i’m also saying let’s not forget about the feminine let’s not forget about her let’s bring some balance back to the picture again you know and um that is kind of owning all of who we are right owning everything that is us all parts of ourselves right and uh just thinking about that sense of identity um uh maybe that’s a very clunky segway but that’s sensitive identity um i was wondering if you would like to tell us a bit about your branding as well because i think you’re in the process of um shifting that a little bit because you have been operating under ammo artworks and um working on the art of awareness and you’re shifting into something that’s uh that’s uh um i mean it’s it was your name anyway but um but it’s not more overtly your name that you’re working under is that right yes yes so i i set up ammo artworks um three years ago when i started painting and uh i mean i i honestly like i don’t wet anything halfways um when i when i when i crack that shell through painting i i was prolific that first year i saw i i actually painted 138 paintings that first year and sold almost all of them so i had to set up a company quickly you know to do that and ammo artworks was born from there now ammo is my initials and michelle myrick olson when i married an olsen uh in 2015 my my initials became ammo i don’t use them never really have except when i was teaching in the middle east uh they called me miss annie because that was my name tag a-n-n-e and they they pronounced also phonetically there so i was i was like i was like on another planet in saudi arabia and i was like i was a different person miss annie you know oh you know that’s the story in itself but that’s in the book as well yeah but i guess i checked in but yeah okay so ammo artworks was set up as um as a company sell my paintings right and then of course i started writing books recording cd so it it it’s still art you know so i said okay that’s all right and ammo artworks will still work for this has been audio visual cultures with me paula blair and my very special guest michelle myrick please do sign up for michelle’s free online workshop on using art to embody awareness taking place on the 15th of august you can do so at forward slash art the link for that will be in the show notes wherever you’re accessing this episode i do hope to see you there as ever the music is common ground by airton used under a 3.0 non-commercial creative commons license please help support the podcast with a membership at av or one-off donations to buy me a forward slash pei blair given my recent technical hiccups these will be appreciated more than ever take care of yourselves and be accent to each other thank you so much for listening take care and catch you next time



Audiovisual Cultures episode 23 – Leave No Trace automated transcript

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after twenty three of forty visual cultures to podcast examining signed an image based culture production and its wider implications I'm your host all of their visitation under seal and I discuss Debra Granik status film the new trace just a warning there are mentions of post combat trauma and suicide G. two themes raised in the family many thanks to listeners and supporters and a warm welcome if you're joining us for the first time you can find more information on what would be a visual culture says Albright on the website at Audi visual cultures dot wordpress dot com I'll be back at the ends to give more details on how you can get in touch and support the podcast finale enjoy the discussion %HESITATION where are we we're in the gallery at the time said cinema which is a three row roughly twenty eight seats green smoke screen contains art and swings afternoon I'm rewarding ourselves for masses of hardwork ways leave no tracks which seems to make mark Christ service three yes I do listen to head through VA on Twitter changements forecasts thirds to thirty years today so it's glowing and emotional mark fields at the festival so the threat to be democratic she managed winter's bone and I remember saying that McLean some theatre in Belfast when it came right back twenty twelve it was a long time ago fails I feel like it might have been one of the statement PhD was quite awhile ago when I bought my my memories of those fears are melded into mass I find it really faxing son very much looking forward to leave no trace on the subject matter just signs up say fascinating fun again we feign poking out notions around girl had quite a bit and I think a lot of the sun is going to be a party a teenage girl finding their silos growing up when she's out what we are considering all of life with her traumatized veteran father you know it's I would like to play twenty pounds as a wager if you were to do an analysis of firms in the last decade made in the US mainstream independent and look at a number of films that concerned a young female main character the comparison with teens we found a significant increase in the nineties and teens probably late morning on this construct sortes will be back I just have a drinking town died after but also we have your phone and turn it off and we had to have it was this is well alcoholic drinks but I'll survive thanks very much for medical majors chamomile sage we just need to make quiet noises hello yeah this is he spoke the hair cut but I think his Stephen pressing it to Saturday this yeah yeah that's right but the device if you have been in the film and it's not a philosophy has a right to me seems to make the reason I like that it doesn't psychology semitism oversight college I send it back hi he is %HESITATION there are people in the starter in concert he understands why he is so he is a social service people hi this is Abhay or something like that I'm not sure even if that was the agency that it was interesting jobs seem to be very kids but everything is technology based and paper work and me too much it's too overwhelming and they need them to be part of society and having people being fake currency setting off a conservation masses is she I was feeling like the whole time there in the third leading in their company and their healthy and I had two kids there's so many nice touches in the film where there's I think it's a pack of coyotes possibly the weights in Oregon they're fighting their ten six o'clock today they have the finding the back together so it is showing that they're waiting and they're meeting and just like that the cherry about the lights and it's done a lot of time to send all the elements of the from nine Grange there was proper cinematic in the meaning of the word cinematic just ten minutes where it should entail yes absolutely what sort of running on using things like running a project just sitting in place use but where you usually are lots of Thomas in hot cold mackenzie Tom and I would call that it is actually really missing people yeah people use their yeah yes the most up to date and the results of reacting one is putting at my heart strings with sorry sangat Cepat but their way of showing love for each other almost like kissing sometimes but not as tried is that I'm not quite clicking your tongue but something in between well there was a tiny sliver in Allentown I'm assuming since this is notation when things get mentioned on committees it's not patient missing since notation that this probably would have an extraordinary book seems to have an affinity with horses and that is what a forced not forced him to react and she's very close to animals of all kinds it shows she heard having quite a chance in with all of them and them getting gaining their trust very easily so she's doing a lot of handling it looks like the actress is actually doing a lot of stock be handling your style thanks yeah being with jokes about that I hear sometimes honestly films I think the film making it just wanted to do this thing really just wanted to introduce you to the all the teams and the treatment of some of the specific world I think the little glimpse of everybody was robin showing rather than kind of swanky printing and monitoring the rabbit showing just bringing well cared for them but to some someplace other than just shut off and maybe some judging happens I was a little bit of that going on I was working as a matter of when father pulled him away from my life on the road again there was a sense of calm and a system to put down roots meaning for them to do with it if you have any writers making friends social worker says contract beyond turning it's already about see how not citing aren't any social skills he don't know how long she's been living in the rates for their father it seems like most of her so far the last for sure social worker say that just about learning it's very building your social skills and being around people and learning how to communicate she actually does not really well all by ourselves she has a minute spree last year tops every situation she can wear as a father doesn't tennis are sitting with her father that he's trained or so hard to think about the trails where he knows that people will come to them because they're not supposed to be on the public lands he knows he'll get chased away or they'll get brought back into society so he drove them and I eating and making no trace of their presence and for me it's her and then the thing right for thirty seconds or something to get my cheesy thing for him to stay in fines but then it's time to get that away he's the one he trips and falls and then not to force out %HESITATION for when they get to Washington state after a night of charm tension dying of hypothermia so much colder and she's not physically ready and she's not a space three and stroke he is hello Sir I think women in general especially she's a young woman she's not very foreign to me don't let anybody hate you might ask and generally speaking just how the body mounts that are found but they managed to happen and then the next day he goes off and it seems like it's a little almost twenty four hours it seems like you're getting ready for a car so she had to get to the crane can follow that a certain way but he seems to have actually fallen before you can go to the great and he's been lying there for a long time inserts handles can cost she finds him and manages to get help so she's the source for season one Hey right it was a symbolic switching moments was when she achieves degree of authority by having to be the one in control because he's injured in a concert and that authority involves just leaving the cabin during a looking for him in the first place and he both conservatives can look for in a man the initiative going finding people who should hear from the distance following an engine of and these people to help and also to take a bit of initiative and going when they finally get to someone who has a friend who can help saying damn near one hundred and S. points before that when she has to step up to the task at hand is not stepping up for Christian music to the mountains and then all of a sudden she stepped up so much that she is now effectively yeah exactly then spent the next convalescing from the injury during that time she's free to go and explore the market seems to be a remarkable trailer park click on it and all three of them point yeah I tried to connect and then you build steps around the Americans from between thirty pounds for Saturday the part of mainstream society but they're in there a little a day that works for them three seventy for this moment yeah they just go with a company called live in houses but it shows you that they're not they're not the only people he and why should they pay for streaming the firm has a fifty four different levels of people integrating into the hive yeah at one point twenty minutes six the I remember my first houses some distance out from the whole thing with %HESITATION the team is forced to work as well for the guy hi and then what they want is just to be one outside the high what we end up with please give it to a place which is kind of hard for the world community and being out in the woods in the call me crazy to get one of these the quote looking with this let the day happen upon people who will just help them and just kind of under something almost unspoken understanding of what events are going on the situation say that Thomas and she's not being abused in anyway that's commenting on quite a few times by everybody else does help them and brings them in I don't know why because I think people have known the focus of the trucker facing the germs in person the weights and all the different places I was thinking is taking place and mentioning the man I can't remember his name and he owns this court three three five PM I don't know his name I don't know okay I'll have to make a list of Peter is not behaving Christopher yes I find it refreshing terms of them staying there the father it does have a name I don't think it's sad that he does have a name well he's played by band poster there are terms for them saying there so he has to go and work not only that they have to go to church one time and I was just thinking that transpires this guy has a surprise for you and he's a very Christian person right the company sort of church that they go to say I was just thinking about it that tension between his Christian faith and basically he is commercializing this Christmas season body not by growing Christmas trees which are not a soulless and anything she actually have something in nineteen thirty I've never understood exactly what they have to do with Jesus being born but the northern European known Christine yeah festivals it's just been dropped exactly he says he makes his money as for the trailer %HESITATION specifically Christmas trees on the banks of people in California hi injury center I think it was just something worth pointing out and these are things that while Tom is starting to integrate with the people of her generation and animal lovers like her father come I mean it's understandable they contain some names the card one time one and that's all fine and it's very commercial enterprises for site something that arguably should socialize that's a whole other thing the firm thanks the church service the bigger too so yeah the margin the carpeting and it's quite clear that he said that he yeah like most thrown attention is just something happens just quietly goes on offense yeah and then what did you find to be that is quite substantial one would swear good looking around very much the way very but just in the morning and I have some technology firms to help at the position okay this is the from house and on the phone for us to give them a phone can do a lot of fun okay the support of our customers requirements in this film ending in a six run Tom just because I'm not coming with the same just made very clear by saying I understand she seems like that's why it works so well because using the integrated in the final minutes using peer from language to communicate things very very there's a scene before that where she says to him what's wrong he is not wrong with me referring to %HESITATION stratecast disorder from saying and you're not he doesn't talk about that the most is the one point she's looking through this she she knows is important hi newspaper clippings about the situation %HESITATION %HESITATION specifically so that would be in the and it was something you buy the right side fine I take it that it was stricken with a side like this secondary prevention he was I feel like I've heard that summer and it's possible that that's something that's gone into it and then also that's called my abandonment yeah of course I think that the trees in the fallow Debra Granik and co writer his name they seem to focus on dancing more thanks for her experience I'm guessing I don't know what but possibly you know the insurgency one other thing just says no decision the thing or by it's not clear whether they I mean I have seen to survive never hung around the most the growing phase I actually really love and it's a decently made but they just and it was really working on the show too that they have their own she seems to be an expert mushrooms %HESITATION offline service and they didn't want which is provided for shop and seem to be any point that would make everything something definitely yeah if you do not have an a much different kinds and one of them seem to be quite the marketing oxtail tenuous link it can also vegetable broth or something because it was just that you can really see going into something that I'm not sure that luxury treatment kind of thing that they I have the opportunity yes the reality of trying to get in that's a good question yeah that moment when she finally says thanks for staying with these people on the move yeah that is the equivalent of one you can't goes right I'm moving out yeah except across the restoration it just stays in the they will have no way here again please come back and she effectively will never be able to but it says the arrangement because steel bye bye sticking some of the characters actor named after the people buying them Danielle was also with mentors phone Thomas helping her with three I stopped because she's talking and it takes possibly the person J. also by happen that they managed to find a chance in three years but it was only a day in the and then it shows Tom kind of arrangement I'm doing that sign of affection for I can imagine him collecting I'm doing the same yeah twenty six yeah despite their members when they did that thing with the server went I would be if one of them will make it on screen and then it would yeah we wouldn't get the count yes and also yes the suffering of the it's a very rich I'm is she did she she's only emotional so I was like this is a message from the bank and it's for this reason that down but because of the he would make the noise of anymore yes right no I'm not gonna do anything back Corning just the sentiment and I just imagine him coming along making up by making the sign so for me significantly less corny really I Hey all on the show so this call to mind I'm guessing possibly made sixteen so %HESITATION than fourteen and in sixteen oh I guess it's like fifteen hundred Royce and my stock answer three while she's very young and listen in as well so hard I almost piercing eyes there were times because the motion is a rising was never and it just be the redness coming twenty days to be nearly crying that would be a muscle in her chin yeah you can't I'm losing control of okay I'm trying not to yeah that's really impressive because he's very young performer anyway it's making me think because Jennifer Lawrence's free in the business right it was a major life one the only people doing things right it actually had gender the moment when you don't just remember you got all my finances on top of that there's a lot of features possible he will never see yeah that's not a problem because and then the last I need to come back that thing about the old guard yeah Dale as a back up for a full time the new version of what it's not just people yeah even see them yeah thank you yeah this is our first may be symbolic this is home because he's going to become a symbolic after we get off the pot ways and he's well what's important is that yes and date yeah I'm scared that he has taught her everything there's no marker and teacher she's actually become better at him and that's what you have with your children I sat sees the Confederate things that he is and so survivors %HESITATION sees more conscientious she's actually got I didn't know she was no anything else should be found by the police yeah I'm not saying that he probably you have to be honest this was the kind of he's constantly keeping her anytime even when that means taking errands for dangerous resistance he's gonna be keeping her into because regards himself as her soul some things he has to this means that what he's doing the same thing on the box fifteen years stop when you doing some fifty yeah yeah which one of those things something which made which I think in the front row well before the exam swelling up quite a bit but it did not she cried there isn't much traffic from and I think probably if he's got a child's daughter child whatever he is or has been it's going to and it was released from the discos okay I'm going to have this thing happened which is good for just a little so you have everyone's getting services from way back in some way because in the second half of the parents can become less often slip through the world does not have to store mediation okay I do feel the same where regardless even though he's we need to going into just because banging on things seven to be missing problems these days a man who is turning out to be at least yeah he was making answered she was making eggs Benedict one thing that did strike is that yes things are going to be bad even though it is going to he had gone twenty for use cases in organs and yeah and they end up in Washington more than nine because that was nothing between them that means that he's taking them to call the cops yeah I haven't done that means it's going to be honored what seems to be sure because he's running away from the most and if you just can do that then thanks bye thank a fireman one of the ways in which one way thank you for calling to make it feel as a consultation we seem quite as just seeing someone at the time yeah yeah three from the yeah they're bracing yourself I merry and something like that can do that he's someone who isn't a toll like yeah people are just like his name is very very simple for me it was because we've been on long walks and I think something like starting today because and then when they stop the money is tell me his body he's got circulation going in her favor thank you coming through their socks again when you responsible for somebody staying alive there is a kind of tends to go on because you really don't want someone to your response I'd like to do this whenever I want to help my doses doing nothing physical for my friend to be difficult I might say just coming right back I'm sorry for the confusion finds anything to do that I'm just gonna stick with it take charge of financing available a single because it's always been on some of my concerns were being only even imagining hi more I'm getting a call and anyway so I just and you know right with my face most of the code now because it's a very hot day June fifth of July you're not most of the rest of the year my day fall as freezing when they were children from the cabin I felt myself going I can almost for using call second hand tangling sensation actually quite warm canvassing temperature very quickly I think if anything the cells that are really think of anything else to say about them but I I really recommend that I really recommend the same winter phone at some point it's %HESITATION so why am I correct myself later on if I'm wrong but I think that was separate comics directorial safety I think she wanted to make sure she doesn't make sense it takes a long time to get a project up and running and thank kind of a thank you for coming president you can just about everything saying please explain the team up after we finished recording and she wondered if the film could be regarded as anti war and I think that that reading can certainly be me it's given it conversations that well he's played by Ben foster has some place better in me it's company waits as well the conversations that he has with their medication and I think this one is perhaps a quick criticism of highly Saturns are treated and the lack of mental health care provisions needed for deeply traumatized former soldiers when will and Tom find a small community in Washington state the former army medic who treats will experience it's been his dog he's helped him with his nightmares the firm indirectly shows the god fearing Mister Walters he doesn't spare a thought for Wales needs or his request to work with horses but instead puts into hard labor they require something to work with machines and helicopters and its invoices if these things that are triggering Wales worst anxieties judging by the way well courageous hawking himself while the impressive rotors around to sign skip and the free including entering ten is likely experiencing flashbacks and panic attacks but this is not the kind of films that that should lead to things and be over to break that you just have to imagine that that's probably what he's going through and while Mister Walters claims to want to help and that's why he provides the shelter for them in the first instance his hope comes at a dear price for Wales well being Wilson treated condition hello he receives medication it's ME care from several characters from that the medication is ineffective they still have the nightmarish regardless of the pills there's just this unspoken sense of possibly the state just trying to medicate away the problem and hide it in that way to just make it not be so much of a problem anymore and it pushes these people right to the periphery of society they kinda integrates again he manages three times ingenuity to find a way today is that is more workable for him even if it means their separation to ensure her survival and allowing her to live a life that's something in between society and the loneliest of peripheral reaches she's in a tiny microcosm of society but it's one that seems to be conducive to the way that she needs today is certainly a transition as a young woman and Tom is very much in the apples by others and Dan can operate independently samples increased when will help Sir rated bike for the first time and when she's taught to handle the baby's tendencies and and talk to them about that and so on and just finding a quick note on the adaptation high quickly recuperated its tails my abandonment by Peter rock and it's based on a true story and the narrator of the novel is a thirteen year old girl called Caroline so I'm not sure if Thomas and Margaret McKenzie who plays Tom I don't know where she was thirteen ministers films she could face a baby thirteen she said that %HESITATION course stage of adolescence where she's looking very grown up very open space at the same time Caroline incinerator holds an awful it's a nice so this kind of thing in the show notes that are available for anyone who pledges on peachy on I hope you find this discussion interesting are you still in some way and if you have space to consider supporting us by impeaching on I'm also very grateful for one of two nations to pay pal dot me forward slash PP a player if you'd like to make suggestions for future topics and participate in recordings you can reach us on audio visual cultures G. email dot com and on Twitter at eighty three cultures thanks so much for listening