Audiovisual Cultures episode 113 – Star Trekkin’ with Dr Andrew Shail automated transcript

can Peter replace first archive file hosts log star date ten March twenty twenty point seven the do you fancy watching some Star Trek the next generation with many of which fits of it when I was a kid but I think I missed the first few entire seasons and just watch that to pasta it's called encounter at farpoint one opens the first season I watched it yesterday and it is minutes ropey but besides it might be fun I'll try I have never been in this star trek through you will check and I'll sit here and say my nails are something hello Sir okay start date fifteen January twenty twenty two point two and there's a four season of discovery to get started on this we haven't even started the card is a ten episode season of thought and I'm dying to see what they've done with seven of nine and I haven't even told you buy property yet Hey just work there how many users are star struck we've managed to work so far across the ticket six separate seasons no no no I don't we have to fill in those short tracks we haven't even seen an apparently nor dax is %HESITATION me as an on hiring yes and there's twenty episodes not already hello and welcome to C. audio visual culture is the podcast that boldly goes say that collecting and disseminating arts and culture approximate time call up there and see I have a surprise for you the new year listeners may not know this but I used to have a closer to show established listeners please join me in welcoming back Dr Angie she she'll play G. like set have a good explaining what we're going to talk about saying we are going to talk about and that's content to constitute over fifty one thousand articles on memory alpha the Star Trek wiki or at least we're gonna scratch the surface of that because even though we have watched six hundred ninety six episodes of Star Trek across six series wait we have used this pop them next time while we have not finished watching all of the Star Trek and we never will what kind of if we done this back if the world had organize itself better and how to pandemic back in about twenty sixteen we would have watched all of the Star Trek and that would've been it we would have gone tech stock check done but since what's known as the Alex Kurtzman area since he took over as showrunner discovery starts going crazy recently so although we have now watched three seasons of discovery on top of seven seasons of Star City next generation seven seasons of Deep Space Nine seven seasons of Voyager four seasons of enterprise and a season and a bit of the original series case for if anything and some of the films yeah we even though we've done that and of course in completely the wrong with that that's still a mountain of Star Trek yet to watch and it's being me is strange you wrote this for exciting I love what's happening with spike it's very important character so there is no point in trying to go into the chain much detail there's gonna be loads of stuff again and the fight so I think very quickly some honorable mentions say amazing music scores strider tests usually ready awesome so we'll see if we can circle back to at any time so many incredible actors directors %HESITATION ares production just really awesome %HESITATION there's so many recurring actor she aren't part of main costs but we keep recognizing and they keep going back in the PDF by aliens and heavy prosthetic makeup is that lots of people get to come back across all sufficiency research is really fun so many big questions so much to get into the merry anniversary it's it might be made %HESITATION I love everybody Panfilov said is there's just so much today so I don't know if we can hope to see much justice but I just think we've really wanted to send China plate this journey that we've been on together with state really leaving I think so I can find but I suppose it be nice to say is that it's but this time this will probably come light it will be a solid year and a half since she's been on the show I need pretty much started status podcast with me any words of I'm sure that we kids foster many rooms schisms that have full between you and I and I'm sure if I'm sure you'll many lessons have been coming up with their own fantasies about what happened between you and I but I have simply been watching a lot of Star Trek with you initially sitting next to me and then increasingly going where has the speed you know my and the watching is taken over from the sitting down and talking about it you know you still don't see it so much we cannot assume when we talk about it for two hours and that would be it that of course Star Trek will never be finished therefore we have to and lest we just at some point brit the plaster off quite painfully and go right we'll now talk about just the six hundred ninety six samples that we have watched I know it's not ambitious insoles struck by that many opposite but we got those down and we'll do another one about the remaining at least five sixty episodes that we haven't watched because because deplorable we haven't watched the animated series from nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy four although I do remember when I was a kid and because in addition I have been helping my employer read plan it's teaching turns ever so slightly accommodates two a pandemic that's taken a little bit of my time well I saw something quite fun to sit back and watch you gotta make friends amongst various humans you can make contact with via the internet these days you're free show it's fun just to hand on the baton of other people producing your free content for free so tell me how much do you make your patrons give rather causation number two hundred eighty six if giving away a podcast for free never ask patrons for a specific amount of gold pressed latinum we got a few preliminaries we need to establish in this %HESITATION put costs which I think might be a little this particular episode whatever's records might be a little bit longer casts as the other ones right so this is the way that Star Trek books you got the series that was just gonna start track which is closed down and started a business series the ad between September nineteen sixty six in June nineteen sixty nine that was seventy nine episodes across three seasons you got started the animated series September nineteen seventy three to October nineteen seventy four which is twenty two episodes across two seasons he got started the next generation between September nineteen eighty seven and may nineteen ninety four that was a hundred and seventy eight episodes across seven seasons with twenty six episodes in every season except for season two or ten twenty two episodes and we don't talk about season two the number but we will talk about season two and then starting but part way through the run of stars and expiration which we will call TNG we we we got Star Trek Deep Space Nine which ran from January nineteen ninety three to June nineteen ninety nine almost exactly the same as T. engineer had a hundred and seventy six episodes across seven seasons so Beijing because at this point and if we're gonna do seven seasons and then we just stop we were trying to go on forever your standard Voyager which started in January nineteen ninety five again parkway three deep space nine that run until may two thousand one hundred had a hundred and seventy two episodes across seven seasons again twenty six episodes in every season except for season one in that case which had just sixteen then Star Trek enterprise from the twenty sixth of September two thousand one the thirteenth of may two thousand five rising ninety eight episodes across four seasons with twenty six episodes in season one twenty six in season two using the patent being established here twenty four in season three and twenty two in season four and that was it in season four wraps up very quickly because clearly it had been canceled by that point which had a lot to do with it having debuted in September two thousand what knock on effects and that is very unfortunately timed I thank I felt ready sorry for enterprise I think they deserved a lot more there was so many accidents storytelling and emissions the world went into a very dark place and television became very dark and it just had no truck with these explorers going also domestically making new friends I'm actually probably convinced that if they just had a different features the whole success of the show would have been different possible yeah kind of perfect evil storm of anti storm of what was there again and I'm to be extremely precise it wasn't cold Star Trek enterprise until episode three point three up until then it just goes into the relationship to Star Trek was quite arm's length initially then Star Trek discovery which runs as started running on the twenty fourth September twenty seventeen I would just have three anti seasons the season four started on the %HESITATION in November twenty twenty one to republics of season four well that was the one where we had started to watch it on Netflix and then it just wasn't there this thing happened and then we find out what happens it just been taken off everything ahead of it airing on power lines plus I think here in November and so we were left stranded in the mirror universe and sees I actually had to borrow DVDs this it felt very pleasant and %HESITATION and so started discovery ongoing is accompanied by a short season of shorts tracks which I'm not counting after this episode's between twenty eighteen to twenty twenty others seem to have stopped now yeah I'm sure you'll your listings of correct that one you got started comment which started in January twenty twenty is now have ten episodes in its first season at a second season set to premiere in about a month started lower decks which started in on six August twenty twenty and has had so far two episodes across two ten episode seasons Stantec prodigy so we started in October twenty twenty one is part way through its first ten episode season and Star Trek strange new worlds is scheduled to launch in the middle of twenty twenty two an abstract we are most excited aren't we given that it was set up set up in season two off discovering right so that is what Star Trek is an over at we've watched a season in the base of the original series none of the animated series all of TNG all of deep space nine which of course record the S. nine all of Voyager all of enterprise the first three seasons of discovery and that's it that's how six hundred ninety six seven zero six the series and then movie wise you got the star treatment the motion picture in nineteen seventy nine star trek to the wrath of Khan in nineteen eighty two and this too it was tossed thing that's been added by firms you know it's this number was on the post is is the name of the shop said the numbering applies for a bit so static three such a spark nineteen eighty four stomach for the voyage home nineteen eighty six Stantec forms the final frontier at nineteen eighty nine centric six the undiscovered country nineteen ninety one Star Trek generations the number has disappeared nine nine four Star Trek first contact nineteen ninety six which we do walk if you or any other matter was at Star Trek insurrection in nineteen ninety eight one of the like if I thought this is just a long episode and I really just enjoyed it and data cop today fun stuff on the cutting face stretching as run mostly remember from that that in having one's face being stretched could kill you wouldn't just really hurt mutilate you Kerry I still think nemesis in two thousand two Tom hardy returning Tom hardy young Tom hardy and that's it for the films in that timeline because two thousand nine a film called Star Trek J. J. Abrams's Star Trek started what's known as the Kelvin timeline and that's a parallel universe reboot so it's not a review in the sense of right and once we get that all the original stuff happened as spider man has repeatedly done during our time no Star Trek does reboots probably it goes someone's going to go back in time and crashed Powell universe at folk universe phenomenon for which there is precedent and this shows we're going to get on to forking universes later Carlisle's worse and TNT I'm robin successive films not from choice well it franchise is still the same franchise but in that element of the franchise the Kelvin timeline %HESITATION including Star Trek no code on into darkness in twenty thirteen and Star Trek beyond in twenty sixteen I am expecting more films one thing I I have to get down right off the bat is that we have out of these films watch very many together every week because generations first contact insurrection and nemesis for TNG ones here same thing either but we haven't sat down together and watch the original series films I think I've as a child I may have seen the force one that's the only one I have any fique memory cells more just because of the way %HESITATION and then they're on travel sentry yeah that's all I remember about it and I think we're waiting to finish watching the original series yeah and they will watch those and then we'll what what's happening in order for it to we totally the wrong road and then this will get something comes in timely ones because of because even though the Kelvin timeline films technically don't have any bearing on innocent we've watched they do establish two quite big elements of some of what we have watched which is that they stop list cinematography that characterizes everything made off the two thousand nine including or the damn camera cameras being upside down just cameras constantly flitting around a lens flare as one the song much let's learn discovery even though it's not supposed to happen in the same universe as the Kelvin timeline from the J. J. Abrams films it nonetheless he uses that same style as if it does and also the Kelvin timeline films they establish the look of all of the species even though it takes a big steaming temple Iverson ret conning that was done during enterprise about what click on this post mark so we will get some tools this way for some time and resources movies but your your question whatever done in the past couple of years %HESITATION Washingtonian reversing movies other stuff tastes are going to sleep I suppose in a way that has kept us somewhat sane during these very challenging times over the past couple of years this is not Penn and experiences been easy really for most people on and like most people we've had our challenges during this past couple of years you know we've had losses we've had major separations from our families you know we've got see your comment that balancing mine for over two years you know so there's been a lot to digest it feels especially with the TNG era which is when I say here at Tyson I mean TNG DS nine and Voyager several U. chronologically coherent so I mean the three of them they all begin to feel like family and you become very emotionally invested in the characters so I think that's where that has felt actually portent to watch of this time and I know that there's a lot of established tracking site there who have been doing a lot of free watching of the series as well because they're so comforting I think we are going to do something very sensitive probably after a short break where we're going to rank the captains and this is going to be sensitive because these captains on our whole family I don't know if I have to rank but I've got my favorites Michael the ones I can meet the watching we've been doing this off we should note this at this early point in addition to saying right we're going to be using these acronyms TNG DS nine and so on as kids I was exposed to the next generation Deep Space Nine Voyager cluster does as far as I was concerned even though I had seen one or two of the original series from the sixties I seen the Montana you ever read on all the time even though it seems some of the films that came out in the eighties but used as characters even though I was aware that there was a regional sorry Star Trek it was the next generation that was the original series for me as a kid and expects not unavoidable happening within the same story spice that roughly the same time I thought that stuff was old Houghton and I as far as I was aware of the original series was slightly macabre from what I could remember as a kid visit as very young kids and also really slow I think it was because I'd seen the cage he originally on a pilot broadcast on TV in the eighties and it was really set dates as a kid you just kind of you want things to rap along with stuff to happen as my own daughter has has pointed out recently when we actually sat down with her what you're really quite corporate drama episode of discovery that was lost fighting and and space peak that that is a thing in softek there will be some cerebral episodes that briefly gradually get you to think about new concepts so you know as a very young child from that barely nineteen next generation it had pace even though it's full of tributes to the original series it's it's a different sort of based and this is something that has become really apparent in watching the original series it's got a lot more license yeah I mean there's no series had the direct comparison that you can do between the episode in the original series where everyone gets infected with a virus that makes them drunk and the episode very early in season one of the next generation where everyone gets infected with the same virus that makes everyone drunk is the difference between people going a bit nuts in the first one and doing things are a bit out of character and there was no series found in TNG everyone get very sexy %HESITATION Wesley rack in the shaft and Wesley crusher it should we should also note that amongst these family members we have a client during these past two years and you know with me is required but the summers I haven't see data is somebody with whom I feel I can identify quite extensively and you have said the same about to pull G. yeah I think initially but Lana and Voyager was so when I went I understand some of her anger but her anger was coming from a place I don't necessarily understand but I think to an extent that geology or fight and today is there with her because she's hopping on half human and and has had a very difficult upbringing because of class so and I think she's very interesting in terms of cemex race experience and I think she she presents a really interesting exploration of anger as an emotion but then it was Juanmi watched enterprise to poll I just felt sane people say that you know I finally felt sane I'm so many Aspin described by people from the right side he maybe don't know me that well as quite a lace they think I am you know %HESITATION this is Bethany SMI whereas I'm usually carving in a corner because I've got my anxiety disorder and %HESITATION nobody's interested in talking to me or a some people have had the impression I'm a bit taken %HESITATION for scale but that's not all my internal experience I'm externally have disco lists or something or detachments but inside there's just a tumultuous of mine going on to manage and when they really explore what it is to be both can properly with her for the first time because it's not really a lot of folk and there's no balcony and characters until two fox doing Voyager and tape box quite old he's over a hundred he's also a man you know it's very different but when you explore a female Vulcan property for the first time and she's a bit younger she's in her sixties which isn't quite the equivalent of being %HESITATION I might be insured your thirties or something twenty safe and even younger that's quite young for bulk and adults she's a Vulcan to Haiti as actually finding it very challenging to manage her emotions and then stuff happens to her because she's really interested and humans and human way of life and she experiments and then she meets sees quite radical Hokanson she experiments about more and things go back wrong and things happen without your consent and so she has these experiences with her house and the decline of slots hi they deal with her I thought it was some just really excellent television you know and and the and the two story since you're starting to get a far better understanding of more neurological conditions like autism and ADHD and especially because these are conditions are very difficult to diagnose and my men so women with your diversity are socially conditioned in certain ways and I think being able to explore maybe something along those lines with the Vulcan character you know ideally in character it's just gives you that safe space or any parent with those ideas and then think about them in terms of allegory for humans nice to be that something we have recognised happening across the network actually before next elements of individual service but if something happens across the next generation and Deep Space Nine and Voyager such that the story of one of these many arcs that spans the mini series is the story of just recognizing that some people okay yeah you can't do that in the original series but you can make some very impressive metaphorical allusions to it you can't do it in the next generation but you can make some slightly less vague slightly less buried allusions to it and that continues to the point when I think it's in twenty sixteen and Star Trek beyond that we finally have an openly gay character and it's not a big deal and then in Star Trek discovery from the beginning we've got I got a couple something that gene Roddenberry sets that he definitely wanted to feature in the next generation but he had so much pushback his career was just people pushing back and going knows audiences will be okay with that %HESITATION and so we have slightly Lasko did every single time references to it even having the first night almost and not the first onscreen girl girl kiss in Deep Space Nine but it was an early okay the trail and it's supposed to be between a woman who has been amount before kissing the woman to whom she was married when she was a man so it's not technically a girl girl kiss a psychologically even though it is physically so you know it's one of the ways they bury this will get thrown to the implicit commentaries on sex sexuality yeah everything you have the %HESITATION involved in being a troll later okay I'm gonna finish that review so what did you want to talk about E. R. for the functional aren't you shale I am programmed in multiple techniques we've also tried to do a lot of parking I. F. what nationality might these we'll do a whole however it is just a home that and it changes over time does change yeah because I think you know at times sick thing on Sir quite Russian but at times there may be more a Japanese at times there may be mark Celtic actually think they're really Celtic but I don't know if it's still there there are some parts of the language that signs actually like different versions of the Gaelic language all right so this several generations of it in the original series the claim guns appear to be Chinese both in appearance and in that depiction as being a rising enemy that is associated with because China would have been coming next time but nonetheless it yet that kind of comes in mind is the Manchurian candidate Manchuria is a territory which part of it is in Russia part of it is in China the maturing candidate is entirely about Russian and Chinese communist governments or at least the agents for Russian and Chinese communist governments teaming up to create these sleeper agents in the US and I think that what we get in the original series going on is this implicit sense of you know obviously the Russians are our way we can think is India and in order to medium our enemy but obviously the Chinese are as well because there was a communist government I think that's what's going on in the region of Sears at least kingdoms that only appear alien by dint of the fact that I generally short with wide angle lenses they just have exactly the same sort of look about playing on this night it was slightly longer moustaches it's like a dark skin as is given to cite Romans but shoot it with one of the lenses to make the nose %HESITATION but bulbous compared to humans but it's just that the idea of sickening on empire and that there's an emperor I think it's great imperialistic and what was on that the type of mustache it because they have that sort of thing national Sasha because China Netflix it's quite Japanese to me so I was wondering if Smith in March up indecent intentionally I think that Mr Shipp hotly alludes to the Freeman chief figure which is in the history of fiction is one of these I can we're doing things in the %HESITATION in order of medium yellow peril they just figures of the early twentieth century and that at least check to China but it could be the I think that that vague oriental sing in the Vulcans and the Romulans and the Clintons in the original series there will overlap in this particular the opposite we just watched the first one of season two of the original series but they're going to discover Vulcan this planet which is just it uses logic it totally doesn't when they go to discover it's full of ritual and superstition and people fight to the death it's just it's completely incompatible with the logic principal right Sir Clinton's by the time we get to the next generation all in now Russians %HESITATION and wolf when he's brought up on us is brought up by Russians she had what seemed to be a completely appropriate adoption scenario where no humans could take this click on child other than double odd Russians by that point what we have with the falcons and the Romulans is this it's been explained as being this kind of cousins situation such that it's quite clear that the Vulcans are Japanese they are these possible competitors possible allies on the world stage as brio champions of science and of capitalism site broken Japanese and the cousins are the much less logical much less into cooperating with everyone Romulans and they correspond to Chinese people can access become pretty clear by that point is that we now have Vulcans Japanese moments Chinese king owns Russians and we also have the instruction of the flooring the next generation who would yeah but if we're going to do this a lot over the next yeah it is it's gonna work in some places we love that and vegetarianism and everything differing DO almost certainly Jewish that's right coded as sorry technical days I think yeah sure that money obsessed their neck is very knocks her out today so that was operating a year off the eastern Jeez kind of thing in Germany and it's in the space nine we get introduced to two more species who seem very very familiar to you the big showrooms in the Cardassians yeah I I mean I I I not sure how much intentionality they raise but certainly at that time and certainly looking at it as a post conflict drama which is massive and tasks of mine you know that the Jordans feel like the Irish and the Cardassians feel like the British I think a lot of the story arcs the comite between them and DS nine really explore that a big grant I don't know I intentional that was but it it maps on quite a while because I think there are quite a few scenarios where that could be the case a lot of the S. nine is centered around because the space station was Cardassian and it was orbiting the planet update your and then the Cardassians withdrawal after a fifty year occupation and the federation and he N. type role takes over the station at in collaboration with veterans because a majority like major to get back on its feet and become a member of the federation and then there's always tension kids page or doesn't really want anything they want to be independent they don't really want to be part of this other thing but it's a bit like Arden's being part of the European Union so its its own free stay yet but comes part of the European Union so it becomes part of something bigger than that south Stormont truck because the space nine runs from nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety nine that is peace process based process shares so I really got a lot of thought allegory if you can call it that I thought it was really interesting way of exploring that and map some reading while I'm sure we've noticed and we're going to miss the thing within so much forgetting I'm not writing stuff down over the past two years absolutely no stuff to go to many more correspondences between species in Star Trek and real world the Ontarians are that I like that they play and I left there and their entire night and enterprise concert animatronic in Waco when I'm with my fingers ten a week on there's but one that preserved when Jeffrey could %HESITATION I know what you're gonna say I'm not just acoustic band during the he plays warm front yeah and difficulties he plays character after character of the character in the space nine that keeps getting killed off he keeps getting humiliated and then finally he gets a character in the space nine his long running character and who is although initially antagonist he becomes quite an important ally it's a soft leisure to archer stuff here right Sir and yet there was one moment when he's in a much is low ceilinged ready room on the enterprise and he walks on this kind of running gag about people buying in the head yeah I just got back in it he plays captain archer he's very tall and he has this quite cramped dental office off the bridge and he there's a long running thing of him always having to duck underneath they Sam beam that goes across and this one moment when trends in that too and having a very heated discussion and Sharon walks under that same be minutes two and ten I. Big Bend dunk so somebody somewhere had the job of probably by remote control any deflating thing within those and then I said that they would the remote control is Jeffrey combs he's just the right height to not have to friend sure band or anything when he walks on the lot Baines but it's just the way he doesn't his body doesn't install on the antenna to spam backwards we have to watch it every three or four times less than half the stuff so clever because there's no reaction there's no it's just the little antenna and all that stuff see that's the sort of thing loses a little jams that enterprises ready great for and it just I think it's just personally searched by the network at the time and it's the two you can this is fine it's just my shoulders too much time sitting at a keyboard you know %HESITATION I can't take chief okay Nero pressure he can even stimulate your own your own notes it will help you sleep or if their son during a meal it's very durians terrorize humans invoke lines enterprise implies that these four species that the founding species of the federation and so we're talking trying to think about well it's an illusion to something that happened in a post conflict time maybe it's about the second World War about the formation of the United Nations already exist among the net maybe about NATO so if it's not a tire may be the adoring suspects to be arrested signatories NATO %HESITATION maybe that Canadians they say they are from an icy Maine because that's the thing if I what seems to become clear and enterprise which wasn't clear when Ontarians were in the original series as I understand it is on to work as a gas plant and %HESITATION door yet is the main stock planet and that's actually the main that they come from and it's ready I see so they had to re insert the lady was white hair and then there's that what is the other this call to Qusay the explorer there's another reason they're white some kind of cause and not a cousin species because they can reproduce or talking a cousin groups within the same species and I forgot yes I just basically I'm Dorian's white to skin yeah and the slightly different color noise here but they've been nothing under grind this one which is why they're so very upset when I say that white I mean they're Pierre white person Dorians are quite rightly well at least they're very bright today and discovery even bluer discovery than they are previously and they're the same color as their annual I suppose these are things that go back to the original series because it was just what color body paint can we put on these people today because we've got their Ryan's here great and so you know I don't know he the Orions are supposed to be but they do a really cool stuff with them and enterprise yeah I think okay Orion's probably evade Middle East yeah maybe possibly the end are just some of the Asian or something because that yeah they do have quite sure because it's quite a dark green and they have black hair blue and white sonic and there's dancing and the women are very alarming and that sort of stuff and while we're on the window anymore but while we have mentioned that you're innocent Cardassians the mark he got sick because the machi a role for the federation citizens arrest each star off the people who have officially form let what people have left Starfleet site and they formed this terrorist organization but as opposed to freedom fighters at some sort of thing is one person sees them as terrorists and other will see them as freedom fighters and their son on going argument but not language so I think that specifically in the context of the bitcoins being Irish in the Cardassians being British I think that specifically alludes to ongoing conflicts in Oakland but the machi are almost certainly the northern Irish Republicans yeah there's probably a fraction of the IRA or yeah you know I analyze something like that there and paramilitary organization of course the big numbers of the Voyager is machi being reabsorbed back into the fold and cut off as the enemy but being identified with common ground with them being shad and just some smoothing over differences and yes this is a very very American %HESITATION right terrorists Donald pigs there's not much characterization of some items that are presently we are we are I know for sure we are going to meet them in the original series we just haven't done see yeah I think that's it from main species maintenance technical races down the trail but they're more well it's more of a gender the trailer is species that can combine and hostess and meant so this big warm slug like creature that can be inserted into them surgically and becomes part of them and the semi and can hold the memories of that person they joined together so they become one person dead biological sex sells the host doesn't matter it's just whether they can join or not and so there's the trail goes through your training process of many years not every trail is suitable to become a host and only certain people okay and they they usually choose CLA so that's where we kept acts he is and the S. nine and then there's a whole big backstory waste management Cisco he kissed the commanders and captains he takes over for the federation DC sign so there's all of that but yes %HESITATION this ambience plan is its own identity but it lives through the host and the host will change so they they left it long life so curse on tax dies before DS nine begins but he's over a hundred years old and then the docks and the end is given to a job C. yeah he becomes just see attacks and you take on the name of your simians and there's a trail in TNG as well explore that was Beverly crusher falls in love with that trailer man yeah and then he is feeling when debts the Symbian could survive they have another host and is temporarily hosted by the freaks shocker right at Johnson freaks and it's only temporary because humans so the company just long term and that of course and discovery they terms for machine then but this is very temporary because it it's not going to hold but let's just keep says Samantha lives until and you trail hosts can come to an end you trail hosts as a woman and so that's really the first time where they directly deal with it potentially same sex relationship and how they handle it is back pretty going I don't think I can do this he asked because I think the how many worked right to travel very well you know very much at that point because it's basically like I am exactly the same person I was basically a blank sheet when I was out of the person but it doesn't mean it's taken over where is in DS nine the flashlight a bit more and it's more like they combine with each other so the tax ambient carries the memories of her son and all the previous hosts and explore the previous hosts right the series and then there's another host because Jesse and it around Tyson as street as a child he is on the tree and happens to be on the ship that's transporting the semi instead of so much of this stuff hard no well this for sure the true alludes to real world people who have a different relationship with that bodies yeah from Zacks which humans typically have so my initial instinct instinct was these alludes to intersex people then of course the point there's also indications that they lived to transgender people these accounts because there's not to be confused both of which kind of reasoning that times trail can be used to create short term same sex love story lines and this is very knowledgeable in that next generation episode where we first meet the trail that when Beverly realizes that the man she's fallen in love with the kind of way %HESITATION symbionts that was the manager's she'd fallen in love with is not a woman share of it he says something like we not ready yet for that sort of love as if she's going just beneath the surface saying our view is all of this right now in the US in about nineteen ninety are not yet ready for this sort of life that we're aware that it exists and that counts yeah so it's a bit out of line with all these other things we go always at this particular species on this planet that corresponds to this nation honors with his political group but what we we could also do with the trial is take the fact that for them the symptoms of a stroke for it to be immortal we can't identify them with a religious belief system on us which believes in reincarnation because that's the kind of real world version of recurring condition being a thing so perhaps the truest supposed to be south Asian may be affected by this yeah but there are no none of us that they used to say lots of things about real world people and the man that tangent I was trying to say that in the nineties we didn't have some language that we have not yet arraigned trans gender is summer or intersex people it was a year a transvestite or transsexual the Senate a surgical sex change you know for example where is we have much more nuanced language during those things nine and so I think it was a really interesting way of being able see explorer your gender identity and that it can change or that it can just be so they it's you know it's interesting hi there are times when Jesse S. or a deer at and discovery he is to human character he has taken on SMB incident the Symbian wouldn't die and they join successfully even on the dear it is a non binary after playing a non binary characters so this is really interesting they're really exploring that with them where there are days where they feel either challenging one of their very clearly masculine hosts you pre prior hosts and they feel very masculine you know Jesse it is super into the cutting lines hi this is really in the fight in order to face pricing and all of that all of us said quite violent sexual rituals that come with being and she's super and all thought but then there are times when she's very gentle and smarter Erica it's feminine she's right down psych because one of her prior hosts was a dancer there's things physically she couldn't J. when she was at sea about not she's dancing stocks she's got more dexterity because of the dancing because of the fighting abilities she's gonna language ability she never had before they become more than themselves here there's even a series Indies an absentee space nine where judge David axes rest for crime but it's a crime occurs on tax carried out and they have to get into this issue of if you're the same person as the previous tax because of the tax and that previous stocks was not two separate consciousness is giving the same body that does not mean that that person's acts and any responsibility for any crime they wanted committed those are also yours as well because you've you still got that person's consciousness within you thanks so that by having a a speech from Cisco which he basically goes number eight when the previous house studies that consciousness is is removed from the Symbian a little bit the match for use is is it's a bit like dissolving salted water and then you boil away the water and that just leaves the salt and then the new host is a lot more water than that then has that self dissolved into it so it's a perfect no mess also going actually node and not to the same person previous person they just carry the memories of the previous person with them so that they can occasionally have a chat with them your suddenly they can six a piece of equipment because of prior hosts was an engineer and they call them such a memories of what they could do you know that sort of thing yeah exactly do you fancy learning about every pointing I've been fostering it recently and it's actually really easy and it's quite relaxing when you get the hang of it dammit she'll I'm a podcaster not a bricklayer I think this episode is sponsored by socks notify I'm digress Christine contesting servic hello to Angie stone crests and Uncle Sam if you're listening because they tend to listen to the ones that you're in yeah and we're both wearing are very special socks thank you semantic processing and I'd also like to say a big thank you to my mom and sister because they mostly found our Netflix how but only to the founders of the finished yes certainly right my mom this year has got me Netflix such as her my per se and then for the winter solstice festivus winter break thing so they are partly to blame for all of this murder rate I have to say it doesn't just live off we always hear Naples the neighbors are always somewhere behind the scenes %HESITATION right I suppose the first thing to do is to establish that what we have been watching has had definite generations and not just that the next generation is the second generation of shows there is a definite generation which is TNG Deep Space Nine and Voyager that single generation happens at roughly the same time and I don't just consideration because they take place at the same time becomes G. a generation because they have roughly identical story principles which is that why you sometimes have two parties where one ends with a cliffhanger the norm is that each episode is a self contained story each series might have a shallow arc is steadily finding out a few more things about a mystery stately encountering more more of the Bulldogs say for example this one quite a concert happens while this may happen every episode is self contained then enterprise I don't know though I think in DS nine no I think the dominion war is quite if banks were your homes and they're the first series stopped us three part arc since file yes right K. nine correct this arc stuff into space than when I went to all those dates earlier on enterprise started about five months off to avoid direct option and that was that was new because voices started while the space time is happening and Deep Space Nine started wild THG very Kerry over not to the extent that they had to characters from another series plus on the BOP no somewhere in their pilot episodes yes there was definitely forking of storylines happening there yeah with enterprise it starts off the Voyager wraps up it initially starts off with that same story principle but then you can see a gradual re setting of the way the enterprises told because clearly it's ratings on someone trying to improve its ratings by changing the format I'm one of the ways that they tried to do that is that across the whole of series three there's one single arc while there are some relatively self contained episodes it's always always sound a bit more information that's going to help us solve this problem with the Cindy and that we haven't seen across the whole season before so the point is I suppose to point out that we were going to be calling TNG a series the S. nine S. series Voyager series enterprise series discovery a series but they're gonna be calling this thing series even though at some points they will deliver to that point where they see rules rather than series %HESITATION they are mostly series discovery gets proper serial particularly in series seasons two and three we're gonna be calling them series nonetheless so that we have them distinct because this was service has a separate using which is as distinct from season in the UK we use series to mean season let's talk about how great series three of the why it was and it wasn't service to restore because in the rest of try to season ticket after awhile because this season as most of the year and U. S. TV series for us here and it's actually one season because he's eight six absolutes are assisting from twenty six yes %HESITATION series as distinct from season robin series insisting that every single episode is self contained even there for most of TNG Mr DS nine must avoid Jack investment prize they are self contained so what can be done I think it's quite important technology I mean we said it before but I think it's worth going into in a bit of detail I do you really feel for enterprise I think it was poorly timed and party served and no one knew without someone's whole suspicious world events happens the popularity of the TNG generation they didn't really want to let up on that but those stories needed to just stop and pause and take a breather her mind was in charge at the time was not still seventy thought he sends Voyager's wrapping up because they have this thing where as we've established they go for seven seasons and many stops and so they they and that seven of them during our work here is done yeah it's a long time you know and it's a very you know because it is the bulk of the year it's usually nine or ten months the cast and crew are working on this one show and thirty and eighteen hour days sometimes six to seven days in a row maybe one or two days off and then they're back again for another new solid wake you know they're not getting weekends and not ready can time their families that's a really really tough environment it's physically exhausting and after she well it's brilliant to have steady work and a lot of them will jump on it because it's steady work in a very intense environment very competitive environment it's a lot of your life to give up so seven years is sick a number where you can stop and go off and do something else to do other projects and still if you've been wise you can live off the fruits of that and then of course by that time you've been invited you're certainly the conventions are happening and a lot of these people they can they have also closed for the rest of their lives pretty much just stand the conventions the creases all that sort of thing but enterprise I think was probably quite rushed into production there is this idea to go right back to the very start because there's a bit of lower by the very first Cox and you know the very first not federation us the organization that would become star fleets you know their very first captain on a ship called the enterprise being cold archer so I think they go back and they want to develop on that and make it and church I thought and it's radioactive a six because you're having to go write this needs to be a hundred years before the enterprise we're familiar with from the original series and I got very excited when we started watching enterprise because essentially ever so gradually over at TNG DS nine and Voyager technology has got to the point where it was essentially magic it wasn't just you know that what is its office he talks and Laura which is that any sufficiently technologically advanced civilization is indistinguishable from magic it wasn't just things that look like magic to the uninitiated it was that it was essentially a magic you just say to vote emits an investor here on pulse and then it would just fix every thirty minutes I'm sorry by the very last episode of Voyager whether we're basically trying to do the impossible and then use the Borg's trans warp conduit network to get they were up against the immovable object of book technology but of course they were equipped with the unstoppable force of being able to do whatever they wanted with static great ship which distant tooled up by help from future Jane right and those two things they could always just get back to so there was always this technology thing of what weapons magic technology we've got much technology on it they just made that technology more magic solution accountability more magic and that was a big result of going up against the book somebody in the void yes the technology had just become something that meant that the laws of physics didn't apply to anyone after I am reason sap environment nothing's at stake so when they went back to enterprise I went back to the twenty second century I think M. S. twenty one fifty one the growing right we're going to a point when people are just starting to break the light barrier Cumans just starting to break a lot and they don't have shields they don't have replicates is they've just been given transporter technology by the falcons in that scared of it it's fantastic it just keep on the throw up the trick you just on their stomach to be slightly misaligned or something %HESITATION some of their items today just not in the right place so introducing limitations introducing actually certain being constrained by the laws of physics again I was really excited so there's so much potential in enterprise scorned it entirely by the sea in June and okay we the pharmacy because I'd really I'd like to get into the television contacts of the time of that history you know because nine eleven happens just as it's a bite to air and things just never really come right for it and it's not the programs files shows like twenty four you know counter terrorism becomes big thing in TV and so then enterprise coastline the counterterrorism rate and seasons rainy because seasons one and two you just haven't quite hit the mark so is there desperate to try and improve the ratings so they try to have a go at having a massive terrorism marking the do something huge because spacey and it's huge and so it's millions rather than Tyson's that are killed and there's this massive revenge arc and country terrorism mark it was only had a flirting with posttraumatic stress in my comment back in it's called best of both worlds as but talked about what he becomes book and it's free and then immediately after that they have a college experiencing PTSD well they had that with that before in the form of art ship I have this story here across the series does thing after thing after thing which is compromising his morality such that by the end of the series he's just a shell of a man who is constantly angry at everyone all the time and so two to four major decides the very next episode beginning I think the beginning of the fourth series to write one where he has to go to faces demons yeah yes to do what the Condit face that PTSD but it's much worse for him yeah even though effectively he's physically fine he hasn't just had all these implants put into his body and his consciousness change he's just done a bunch of morally compromised things because ever so gently into that twenty four territory of what we don't want to torture people we just have to and don't ask me why we have to yeah it goes into different areas and and it felt quite cynical and it's a shame because actually beyond that I felt there were some really strong episodes of television some really strong storylines and so many strong writing you know the characters are really coming to life I just think there's there's so many accidents characters and not that it was again just inching more and more and see a greater diversity of types of characters well and background to this character I mean who she is fine days Chanel I mean all of that translation at universal transmitter technology that's taken so for granted and all the other series we see the origin of thought and Hoshi Sato who he is is very young woman and she's twenty one years old when enterprise begins so she's twenty five when it ends on she's a genius linguist he has this just capacity and her Permian for language but not just language they showed she can pinpoint accents and dialects to rural areas and North America you know she's incredible and so her character gets flashlight she also the very first ever trip to rice said the pleasure planet wherever he goes to get laid we usually wait at sac state sorry rancor that we really can't and she slaps on an anti anti anti if ISIS Picard to go there for a better if our in our %HESITATION writer likes to visit ryssa actually io in enterprise say establish there the first humans to visit is the first enterprise team and %HESITATION she has a very nice time and she has sexual agency and it and nothing happens to her and it's really fun but how about things how all the books he goes all right you it and quite comic ways you know and it's quite it's a really fun act as soon as you know and it's she just makes friends by picking up the language she starts to speak ricin to people and they go off while you're speaking and you've got the accent that's really good and she also learns the language of someone else she's someone who isn't from rice he's got this extremely complex language picks that up as well and that's how they have the sexual relationship yeah and it just isn't she just leaves we can't saying and it's really lovely and she goes five mining and I'm a really nice experience for her no one's getting honey trapped no no one's getting in an alien parasite inserts didn't she has a nice time where is tracked and raids police and offender under punks her and Travis he breaks his leg or something my can claim and something like that I'm sure he's calmed an agent Karamat test its first season so it it sounds like it's slow but it's a really fun episodes you know things like that where they just really establish character and they actually play with some sexually agency for the young woman then they don't she and her for you know what happened she just hasn't got the time and that's it it is so I really appreciate it thanks I thought that they could take because finally there and the two sides and said they were able to take that step by tiny step yeah but that step is way ahead of the steps that the average moral principle is willing to take the question I was pushing as as much as they can and thanks to the track culture channel we're not the biggest subject that's by far thanks to the track coach online on and that they were doing something very similar with discourse about drugs during the nineteen eighties as a conversation between Tasha Yar and little Wesley crusher about drugs which doesn't take the just say No line which admits that people take drugs not because they're weak people because they're in horrible circumstances option and that really brings a sense of business lots of their when you tweeting about now we have another segment to record going on still not procrastinate so we're going to see Jesus yeah we'll probably need to build up to the S. you the original series I mean that is even before I had a notion of ever watching any Star Trek we all know that same chain as just part of cultural currency as Matt it's just so in bad it we all know that distinctive things changed and now that we've got say season tape and watching the original series now we've got the soprano and we rarely makes sense yeah you know what we're learning about this whole in the wrong order of course what we would do it ten when we go to enterprise we've been decked for twenty one seasons in theme music that was descended from that original by way of Star Trek motion yeah because the theme music for the next generation it includes the front fan from the original series theme by Alexander courage with Jerry goldsmith's theme for Star Trek the motion picture and then the theme music for deep space nine is music that's very similar to the music for the next generation and then the theme music for Voyager which puts me on the verge of tears I'm sorry they can much the same thing it was all just but it was done with much longer sustains knows you got a long way to go before you have yeah so that was that was all very similar it was big as orchestral and no one was singing and then with enterprise what happened was an existing piece of music which was called faces the hot written by Diane Warren and performed by which to it and perform for the soundtrack to the nineteen ninety eight film patch Adams %HESITATION yeah and then it was re written Russell Watson reworks it as when my heart will take me as the C. music for enterprise it was re recorded I think for season four so the slightly different version slightly more upbeat music when it snowed for seasons three because she remembered come we come up to same chain anymore because this is so I do yeah and so in Congress and to what we're seeing in every after every episode was so traumatic and for the violence in the school and said you know this music so upbeat and hopeful I just noticed it was re recorded for the third and fourth seasons it probably would have been appropriate soul and she with lyrics I come not with lyrics it was a strange decision and and maybe that had something to do with people not necessarily take an enterprise that seriously and then with it just being called enterprise initially people didn't associate at property was star track so it didn't really take with the track audience is already established some with the word faith in the title given the attitude towards faith established by virtually all of the Star Trek so far didn't fit so yeah Tenerife sure exactly I think it's unfortunate a lot of by enterprise is unfortunate it didn't serve what it Kate has pain and what parts of it where I needed to know being a doctor there's just so much is greeted by an enterprise and it was pretty certify some rainy practice sessions a look look at what was great about enterprise getting Scott back in a tie the captain yeah wonderful knowing what tends to happen to people when they play in science fiction that was probably his way of going right I am going to get myself associated with the new character because some back it yeah really yeah it took me a while one of stress or enterprise at the time it was broadcast to shed the %HESITATION that somebody gets them from going to and he had he changed definitely changed it's taking a lot of opportunities to get his top off and to definitely do I think that some back it never done which was really quite stridently issue orders to people to be a part of solitario zinc they just have that one where dean Stockwell listen so late we had ready not long what style and then a couple of months later dean Stockwell passed away but it was nice to see not and having them back together again the being at first race this time but I think that was probably one of the things that mess served enterprises that has created a sculpture killer is on the character of archer there's too much emphasis on him he had to be the hero every time it's not something that I love to school very but there is too much of everything relies on Michael Burnham by the time we go to the lost users voyage we December sister Kimberly off well with this is that a %HESITATION yeah all of this is a parasite yeah this is a nine so that's it %HESITATION but to focus so it's every every now and then you get to see that doctor so yeah yeah something like that could decide okay right we're with this character as in person so get stressed I'm not going through next generation often it was a pecan decided because it was in an episode about what the crew has headed by him how to do and coming up against a particular adversarial problem and he would be the main one to solve it but very soon you start to get Joe decides where it would follow Jody across the day and he'd be the one you have to solve the problem any great lines are by data very often you directed by one of Sam by Jonathan Franks or the far pardon for Patrick shared unless miles's partner up right now as an opportunity for artists to get into directing Star Trek has been great to sing how much of of season three of Star Trek discovery Jonathan Frakes star he's I know he's still going to separate levar Burton said loads of all the others as well thanks for using the law invoice or an enterprise's enterprise a lot of enterprises directed by roping me Neil he was Tom Paris and Voyager and he went through the academy the directing academy and I loved the delta flyers it's a fantastic podcast is to re watch that Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett long he'd played Tom Paris and Harry Kane and Voyager if they make this together to re watch series so they talk about each individual episode every time Andrabi McNeil because he sensed become a director rather than an actor it's really interesting for him because he watches the absence more acid director he can barely remember the acting side of it for himself because he spent so much of that time observing the directors and learning about the production he spent more energy on top and pretty but you know he still turns up and he doesn't acting really well yes that's been a really interesting thing and the same thing happens with rocks on Dawson who has been on a tour is not Shushi S. night more well known as a director and she spends the director and producer and executive producer %HESITATION loads of other shows nice and sent on films as well principal of character gets an episode and it might be even a relatively minor character I mean I think the box yet so it says we are missing back now that we've gotten to discovery because almost all about Michael Burnham and that is the thing is well actually you do have those recurring car actors so %HESITATION the likes of this kind of Barkley I tried Schultz he's very well known as hiding Matt Murdock and eighteen you or like civilians we mention already Jeffrey combs playing lots of different characters fun Armstrong place up to different characters across as the series character Andrea Robinson and Deep Space Nine you've got these really important recurring character she are not me in Castro hopes all voice okay when you have that was come up somebody else's mouth a massive card whose Montauk some such a thing as tasty voice %HESITATION and he is that he plays Chiron he's bright and as a sea ice west ham on around you I enjoy yeah always double in size yeah a tendency to come straight on minor corrections is a thing and that has has has grown to discoveries are we get lots of you know this particular mine account to get the scene at this point but there's no such thing in discovery as an equivalent offer Joe decided or they decide probably because I S. more serialized rather than episodic so the ideas in the earlier ones that you're going along nicely there on their missions bloody bloody battle thing happens and it centers on this one character so you're driving into that character a bit more but I suspect that came up by it because of what happened with Denise Crosby because she left before the end of season one of TNG because she just wasn't getting anything today so she's playing Tasha Yar who was said chief security officer on the enterprise and you know the actress was really frustrated at just having these perfunctory nines and something very similar it happened with the sound echoes in the original series but she claims in her autobiography that Martin Luther king convinced her to stay because just her being on TV and every episode at some point even if all she said was healing frequencies of what she called really fed up with thank you for it and she's a brilliant actress and she's got such precedents but she's getting so little state so are you know for the whole I mean the whole of the first season that's basically all she says is healing frequencies opens our message coming in from Starfleet command center yeah and that's really boring for her and she's just a set of flags you know but because she said of prime lanxess baby important because representation really does matter we were talking the other day if I may Jamison is that he was the astronaut he was inspired to become an astron joined NASA because the finish on the hills and you know so that is groundbreaking and not sense cameos and transporter for so she's sort of TNG and they met on the set and everything it was really special but you know with Denise Crosby as Tasha Yar she's got so much to get F. and she got really fired up and you think by the late eighties even a white woman would have something more to date but no I mean and and it was annoying because it was great if they had a woman I really kick ass woman being the security officer you go to do that for you in about the third episode yeah in the rather racially problematic like I said that's fine with the princess in which someone have to die then they would very quickly be not present to enterprise make them not to be that yeah yeah most of that fight was done by some from this server Dennis because we wouldn't have been much involved in it but she did get to do that scene with data she did get to say to him you are fully functional on she so are any they really sexualized her and it was because of that saying you know this virus that made them a little bit drunk so drunk that she didn't have the composure to pass quickly do you have a hat with a disco maybe there's a future technology that just does that for you I don't know so her frustration meant that she wanted out of her contract so they killed her off and never quite merciless about that so rather than just that %HESITATION transferring give her the option of coming back the kilter Beverly crusher gates McFadden who actually also works under another name isn't she but yeah but she's being a choreographer she uses one of her other names I can't remember this is shameful she did just transfer off the enterprise well the staff from because I think that I think that show runners of the writers or something just wanted to do something different so it wasn't her choice I don't think and then they brought in another doctor Pulaski said she's brilliant but then I think because fans petition to get property crusher back because there is a saying there is a bit of a thing between her and the cards so I think the fans really want to dock so Pulaski just isn't there for the third season of Beverly crusher comes back and that's it yet despite last year it Cheryl gates McFadden okay sorry sorry I suppose now we here we ought to talk about season two of the next generation cast well let's at least just mention that right because in the next generation as we have both learned from reading interviews with Patrick Stewart song it was not a total clear during those first two series that this would think would run for seven I'm saying services on site for seven seasons and there's even a vet I noticed what looked like an outtake that hadn't been caught in one of the episodes in the early in the first season of TNG when I caught is walking into the tub after that shit show of him from the side and when the temple if doors open he opens his mouth as if he's going on and I don't think he is tired not it could be because they always cut the sound out when they put this on the table if those on he's doing a big open mouth face as if he's doing that kind of joke thanks to the person who's on the other side of the table afterwards that we cannot say and you think that's just and then posting around on set that's going to be not take the name of that made it into the finished episode there was a kind of informality about that works during the first couple of seasons and it was because they were expecting to have any moment but that's it it's all over this this farce of trying to resurrect starstruck in TV film my server and it very nearly walls because of how %HESITATION season to end it because season two ended with them running out of money and having to do what was in effect a clip show for the last episode of season two on Friday here and us yes season two it was the one episode of TNG that was what seasons are older ten G. that has just twenty two episodes so as for a potential I just run out of money and for the very last episode all I could afford was doctor Pulaski couple of other characters something including Troy marina Sirtis about dialogue with them with Reika lying on a table I'm original scene which rocky gets infected with something and that set the rest was clips Compton from previous episodes which is supposed to be ham remembering things having this internal battle it was awful it is the worst episode of Star Trek Africa I think even Franks calls it a piece of shit yeah I'm quoting him not selected for him who knows whether they knew at that point whether they had been renewed for a third season but that's the operation of people who don't care whether they can review yeah I'm not B. axes it's the position on this and making this decision but guess rate for third season and from that point on which just goes from strength to strength and becomes yeah I mean that by the end of season three and then not see instructions to both work at scrapping you know I think that was probably the same age where I was investors okay cool earlier we were talking about want certain things in Star Trek correspond to in the real world now of course we didn't mention the book but kind of coming of this species of animals as the book him on to species no it's pretty damn close to the surface that the Borg are communists because they have a collective consciousness collectivist that's hardly insightful for us to point out but it's important to note whether that just a new version of Russians because these are their invented towards the end of the nineteen nineties sorry seven eighty I idea in on right now it's kind of eighteen nine ninety point we're talking soaring of the Cold War we're talking that point where there's a classic line in ten minutes to where young John Connor goes why tech Russia aren't they are friends now there are there are friends nothing I don't think the book is supposed to be Russians I think they're supposed to be home grown communists are supposed to be socialists amongst the American population and that's why they're so dangerous because they are on their way to work with them not stopping at conventional boundaries than on recognizing the boundaries of the federation but of course much more interesting to me the dominion we didn't mention the dominion the dominion have a three tier hierarchy with the founders or change things at the top who are regarded as gods by the bottom starts in the middle starts in which is the fourth to her clones genetically engineered by the founders in order to access this middle stratum after hierarchy and and the soldiers on the jem'hadar and there again genetically designed from scratch and designed in order to be biologically dependent on the substance called white which means that if they somehow get free of civil servant changelings don't just come out and die within a couple we have run out of light and they seem to be coded as African slaves I thank yes the hierarchy of Lewis and intermediate class that they used to they never have to have anything to do with the people who buy real well and then the people have a real that was the principal of the British Empire it was using Indian this obvious people from South Asia as administrative costs in African colonies during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries we've already mentioned before that the Cardassians especially corresponds to the English with a British the British imperialists but the dominion they do almost exactly the same thing host often flavors of British imperialism because they're the ones who went last and then the ones who went east and I think the ones he went last immediately to Ireland's are what we're thinking about it was Cardassia and Bajor but also then for their faith to the Americas and then I suppose it's just general European colonization of the Americas is stuff that's happening there today there's a lot more native American type stuff then mostly in Voyager today definitely this is a menu in there so %HESITATION sorry bank allegory of those things but some some interesting just how easy the contestants team up with the dominion yeah after the dominion start invading the alpha quadrant yeah because their flavors of the Sam saying there but even the Cardassians come across her because it's all the dominion is just so Collison crow and the Cardassians state become subjects of the dominion and they have to have their own revolution terror free Cardassia for main cabin page or to help them H. or help some so it's a little bit like the English deciding that even though you don't want to be part of the empire anymore it's basically going everyone needs to have found that the nation and I've once a nation and will only function if it's founded on revolution yeah which of course is how America thinks about nationhood yeah to be founded on revolution the federation planets in the middle you know you've got ours he's become these have babies where led to believe and I actually liked I appreciate the way enterprise deals to stop because when they go back to earth people and ours are still our souls and it's the one CD first Hey go on exploring their the vegetarian SpaceX base but the ones he stay honors they're gone what are you going off poker night there and bring in a list evil stuff back to us they're very xenophobic you know and they attack Helion species that are hanging out with the federation you know the Starfleet once federations in question but the Starfleet ones so that you know being a doctor phlox and both in the Senate you know the falcons lays in a complaint and suppose quite curious to be human so she'll put on you know I had scar for something to hide her ears you know and trying their hair so that'll cover I. Bryce Bennett and she'll go off to jazz clubs and things and be a bat yes you know testing the waters and then of course falls in love with the humans so let me get a precedent for %HESITATION Spock's very existence because we get a human Vulcan hybrids there was a point when Tucker and t'pol they learned that they had a daughter but it was a genetic clone you know they've both had tissue samples taken against their will and it's been climbed in and used by these are terrorists to create this thing which is supposed to symbolize the pollution of the human gene pool by foreign DNA but the script writers for that episode they point out that it's not just on lightly it's basically impossible for us for a species from this planet and species from another planet her not to told a late cousin spaces too it's completely impossible from to reproduce together and said this baby this is produced from to pop and chips cells doesn't survive no it's not no they they flock senator demonstrates that actually it was a combination of cloning process that meant that the baby doesn't survive and that actually it is perfectly possible and sure they're stato their timeline when they have a son they have a son not journey together you know you member when they're stuck in the expansive Delphic expanse and the third season of trying to find this and date products they recommend us other enterprise but it's over a hundred years old and it's captained by their son and it's kind of retro fitted the sentence also yes still alive yes okay very old woman I think all of them are you know when the storm is ever recognized that it would be impossible for species from two different planet to reproduce %HESITATION so they set the precedent then because it's one of those work there these hard roads to go three where that's another Greek and for mixed race relationships that have had a very hard roads to become acceptance in society all over the world so like civil Vulcan and human having a relationship to Poland's check Tucker have a very difficult time they have a very traumatic romance really fucked up if so way four Sirach and Amanda T. later be able to marry and have a son he is Spock I think enterprise is very important J. helped us see a lot of the establishment because in the same things you take for granted but they're very hard roads to go sorry before somebody can have the privileges that paves the way for and just to credit currently the we are the vegetarian space that's right that is from you tube video by Alistair Beckett king which is a letter S. the little detail about how business listing is often space I know but Star Trek tends to tends to mean that everyone's said agree that not that direction or the media accounts is up in space if you're enjoying the show and would like more information straight to your inbox head over to audio visual culture stock com linked in the show notes and sign up to our mailing list I think it's time to break the captains that's it right the huge today and that's because there's a big question in Star Trek circles which is kinda cool pecan now and also to that particular question the answer is obviously Picard think fast cars Fisher is designed for anyone with the head screwed on the tool it's become because Kirk although there's times when he goes well I'm in charge shut up most of the time he's just kind of louche and laid back he's not in control of situations and moments when you should be doing something to make a difference he doesn't he's not a very good captain until Picard his diplomat he's a manager he's in control of that ship and makes decisions including when he's run out of ideas going suggestions and someone comes up with suggestions because what we're gonna do that and there's always time for a Cup of hot gray writes monopoles yes hot drinks DS nine and Voyager everyone's got a hot drink at some point and I think that's probably because it's a stop motion enterprise are old drunk half the time they have to have something in the hand that isn't to be drinking alcohol yeah because they haven't got since the whole yet I'll go holder drinking here to escape its on Dorian E. L. X. wine they're just constantly let sin I'm going back to the bridge crisis and I think that's maybe they've done not to go well wonder why they all just started drinking hot drinks your coffee and tea all the time probably so yeah because it contains sole responsibility for the hot drink principal right set to come up and cut we just understaffed right but we have all the captains to access into this thing said Saturday %HESITATION just share with you my list of captains okay the card is the best second place in the backseat not my favorite that's what I'm saying is there's a distinction there just the front that Picard worked out that in the very early episode that he was being communicated with but with people whose language didn't have five star concepts just differently figured out put some way of of Cuttack white that patient and he doesn't like children right that's stuck with children and he survived so that alone yes the man is a hero on the observer he became a child exams to be jealous second placed English French on their he wants I took one French words and I missed it the rest of the same matters all the time I don't think he smashed RK tunes different which means feels that way they can get away with wearing them since I lost highly saline drops the F. bomb and she stopped saying that night stranded and then just trying to be a grown up second place foreigners January I don't agree with that I think Jian Wei it's the void you create a lot more danger than is necessary there was a lot of let's just go poke at that reward as we end up not being Sir knight really there's a death and destruction in everyone pokes at the net so that's that's a baseline she's very good at making decisions go head to head with people she will take advice she has what I and my friends at university used to convertible sex oral sex with verbal sex with check I was I know they are the people who can actually get together because she's she's captain they should have been together by the end of the thing they did was seven and Chakotay was just not okay let's go with wrote that because of the whole your captain you can't have a relationship with and that is that's established quite early and purpose of the holodeck our system is currently in TNG where the card does have a relationship with one of his crew members yeah and then goes yeah and his conclusion about why it's it shouldn't happen is that he has the ability to order her to have that and that would really hurt him if he was ordering his apartment to his death where is my Jamie's time what they've accomplished is you will not have a relationship with any %HESITATION crew members because if the power relationship involved it would be a good place at peace house to do right now of course what the docks to he talks with her about this does is he goes what do stuff on the holiday and the holiday is an implicit reference to masturbation the holodeck says it's okay to masturbate and this is the way that Star Trek just very quietly addresses something that everyone's thinking but that no one can publish the size affairs such yeah yeah Jameis doesn't she definitely pokes and stuff but she does have some under B. B. says Paris up tighter so if you get time to do some of the venue can be cash are going if you're a good balls %HESITATION right so generous and puffy clouds underpaid base so the other four captains of them over I'm sure that has been on the other four captains all of which we are aware %HESITATION Cisco comes the captain yeah sources a comma comes captain archer yeah pike love hate I have a soft spot for patrons is not just the part of the pilots I'm one of the latest series one of the centers for the reasons there is this is the mind thing is fantastic this is the part of season two of discovery discovery and then we'll continue and strange you are else which we are sorry to yeah by Rebecca Roman he is reprising the role originated by the queen of star track Majel Barrett's this this is basically visions of future divisions alternative Kerr starch in alternative nineteen sixties in which the Star Trek that was made was the Star Trek as part of a pilot called the cage where because what happened the reality was that the first particle the cage with pike as the captains and female number one he's never named that wasn't approved but Jean Marie was told to go and make another part that we're interested in the ideas but what you just made was way too sedate no they said it was two separate pearl yeah okay to answer read Earl so it makes no this great you know that you can see in the inset televisions as not have these massive pulsing cranium is I saw a lot of fact was great for the nineteen sixties was hurt it's in the mid sixty thousand I thought I was class the N. B. season are getting to make another point at and that one is picks up and that's the policy which Shatner's Kirk I'm the only candidate can is and even book gets retooled his eyebrows get tied it often becomes less emotional yeah and isn't shy XM sixteen S. explained that it was that Jeffrey hunter was tight and he was playing a very dead pond you know very street sorry %HESITATION yeah right talked in a very serious and so then %HESITATION he might all one has to be up on what has to be nine so he's very expressive songs a lot so we have millions he laughs he takes joy in things that they find singing farce and it makes him laugh and the woman there's everyone has to watch it for that scene but by the time we interceptors cast and turns the other way he's very expressive and dynamic in JKT so then your name mine comes the serious straight man then later in season one orders are unused footage for that part of it hi can number one get the cage all of that is re used as part of an episode in which pike is brought back but it's a different actor and he's seriously injured and Connie can speak on his returns to the planets of titles for and so it pike isn't knowledge to have existed and so because of our what can then happen is that in discovery we can have interactions between which of course is a set about ten years before the original series we can have interactions between the corps of discovery and the crew of the enterprise I was commanded by pike and from season two point becomes acting captain of discovery and we meet number one as well his name is which is right which is a female one and spontaneous at the end of season two when discovery is flown to the future we got a little after log in which we see the setup where lots of disruptions to what happens to the enterprise those were resolved and everyone's back on it thanks for coming out and spoke back on it and he's been restored this instruction is that because they were using holographic communications %HESITATION pay claims sought for all the systems failures on the enterprise and that's why we end up with a few screens because he orders and all the rest that's why even though we've gone totally spicy with the first awfully of discovery that's why when we get to enterprise we get to sorry I'm division series that's why the tactics request so but that but I setting up for the adventures of the enterprise as commanded by col right in the decade or so up to you when you get when you cook takes over as captain and of course if the cage had been picked up as the the actual first episode of Star Trek Shatner would not be would never been Kirk would never never been in Star Trek prison and we would have a very different sort of Star Trek and now that's being imagined in strange new worlds and someone seems to come in writing for discovery gone we got a whole bit of story that no one ever told which was the adventures of the pike commanded enterprise other than the cage so yeah we're all very excited about this particularly the working within the box of limitations which is what I've always uniforms have to look like this but we can change a few things they've kept the colors but they often lack of things this is how I rate the captain's altogether sep best captain Picard second best J. NY Brian knows third best Cisco I do not think that Cisco isn't quite as good a captain as Jane Wright is that Cisco has a slightly greater tendency just to go completely bonkers I think he gets processed in one episode and spends internet such as making a clock I think Jane whenever anyone gets possessed by something well they're still killing killing time is whether taken over by the her %HESITATION Jen and I have this dance programs they get programmed into the hollow programs your he further rather than things I can't sleep at night so I read all this stuff are you read the second lesson to the delta flyers and they've just done those episodes when they just accept that double episode with her religion so it's all fresh for me %HESITATION I'm reliving it all again during my has to deal with a slightly more difficult situation than Cisco which is that she has to ask can we even continue to apply star fleet and suppose he comes face pirates Cisco he has to do with complex geopolitics but the federation is still next door right so off to Cisco Seru I think that zero is a basic captain pike that's the thing yeah it seems to be somewhat cavalier he has maintained to this point has this really annoying tendency to go on away missions let's be clear what happens when the captain goes on away missions the captain gets captured right so the captain should never go on an away mission first off a second later admissions that's fine probably best if you don't have the first office ago anyway reasons I haven't changed because it's been slightly different this it should be shift whose job it is to fight people yeah there were several occasions in TNG where an away mission goes out and gets captured and Reuter has to go off and find the card and so he's left commanding the enterprise for its data as third officer spike's tactical emissions so route the onetime Seru goes and why mission is because he goes we're going to talk to I can help you and he's probably terrified it's probably a child I needed help and he says a friendly face he has a big justification for going on the away mission he leaves one I discovered crash lands when it first arrives in the thirties factor thirty three sections he leaves when the ship Congo anyway goes to go make first contact but that's just my perspective the ship's crash landed on the planet it's not like it could go anywhere yes Sir %HESITATION sometimes there's a ship but mostly when he's captaining at least remains on the ship and tells other people to go do stuff where spike is always going on away missions very first away mission he leads is one where he comes within it and not swing of being killed to go let's give the crew on the Hiawatha well yes and people just in their own these things to manage it %HESITATION dangerous difficult situation when he comes this close to being killed and he just about get saved by a combination of burn them and the two albums people on discovery %HESITATION working together and it's it's later revealed that he's actually he's doing what a captain sure knows he shouldn't do which is putting his himself in harm's way because he feels like being excluded from the cling on federation war he wasn't given the opportunity to prove himself so he keeps trying to prove himself that's a flow yes that's right all right so off the pike sure what should does make some quite stupid decisions he doesn't listen to people it does not listen to this fall she says second officer she's initially there as a she's not part of Starfleet or anything but she's R. as an adviser and she effectively becomes a science officer and is creating that first officer of the whole ship and they make that more official she resigned her commission at the Vulcan high command is that the %HESITATION on because she wants to stay with them and help them with their is that when they go off for this indie stuff yeah and %HESITATION she becomes more of a civilian but she is effectively an honorary member of the crate and Starfleet so she is effectively the number one but he never listens to her and she's much more experience she spent time in deep space before on both and chefs she center six days she's got loads more experience than any of them on the shelf and he does not listen to her ever onto also has this annoying tendency to go on away missions because yesterday every time so his life is put in danger unnecessarily crunch time constantly and then of course Kirk for his many faults which on other just into the fact that these convolution waiting times about everything yes yeah it includes the fact that he smokes everyone is very much in favor of this well there's a female crew member there Jim I have a right to call at least ten or whatever but %HESITATION means you to hook up I'm fine with losing her as a crew member as if that many if not well let's say it's %HESITATION Scott he likes her I'm gonna listen officer well one of the things that makes coca crop as a captain is that he is all of the nineteen sixties so yeah perhaps we can forgive media where it is that we can ask for is it just for it was %HESITATION but none the less as the captain of the thing which is supposed to do stuff office mostly military vessel he will just walk into trucks he's much too passive as a diplomat he's awful he's sometimes go to technology stuff that was that impossible to transmit the Romulans which was almost certainly an allusion to one of the second World War I submarine films where it's a destroyer against Severino think it's the enemy below this question is kind of a case is doing awesome okay so do this very particular thing as the captain of this thing which is nice for K. military frigates or battleship okay but you know as a politician is diplomat as someone who have you just need to reason with our people basically %HESITATION for sept the card Janeway Cisco Seru pike archer thank comments from your listeners might well persuade you thought on completely wrong says because my fear for it I think I think he has to deal with very different things from the others because he's not traveling Arango in Polk and he's on this space station with the very tricky diplomatic mission he's in the middle of a very precarious peace that could disrupt at any moment I think of him as somebody he is doing a tremendous amount of managing people he's also a single parent his wife has been lost apple three five nine the board at top which we hear about it and the best of both worlds the episode she mentioned her the card becomes a key shifts off the board he has a very strained relationship with Starfleet because of thoughts you know it's interesting even Patrick shared this and the pilot of the S. nine and hands over basically it's it's hard to have stepped to the handover with Cisco and give him not commission of becoming the commander of the space nine and that's very difficult you know so from the very get go he's already got this strand relationship of Starfleet and he sees it for what it is he C. sepulchre space of this organization that he loves and wants to take a while for so I think the complexity succumb a Cisco and what we end up finding items by his own origins or his his mom was a whim how alien I'm not the one already and it sounds about it's sounds rather tentatively yeah but now it is a known for dimensional not sure beings who live in the worm hole that can't see only stable wormhole that I find on it thanks they also question with the camera quadrant and dots hi the dominion get access because they're from the gamma quadrant outside they get access to the alpha quadrant and these are called the profits by the Turin's they think these are their guards so there's a whole religion based arrived these aliens but it all turned site that his destiny is caught up with these aliens because he's actually off them you know he's actually a high bridge they went to markets do something like go back in time and phone over him so that he would be around a specific point to save them from these enemy wormhole aliens called power right yeah that account of these fallen angel figures I don't think that Cisco in becoming the the emissary of the prophets from from the very first to process I don't think I'm becoming not figured that he becomes religious not park but he does very light on that in the seven series he starts to experience these moments of artists certainty that X. and Y. gonna happen and they they don't come from and messages from the web how late is he basically just becomes this person of religious conviction and I was deemed by the series of that point to be a good thing setting of that stuff aside because I think about stuff I'm not so so well done but others are not I think he praised himself as a captain your honor as a commander you know because he's a commander for the first two or three seasons or something that's a promotion I think in season four maybe I'm not sure all right the right the halfway point he gets discretion to captain I think he shows real leadership and a lot of ways and he is a leader he is prepared to learn I'm prepared to listen to his staff he always has good advice for people he's very centered you know when that when that profit stuff isn't happening he's Larry centers I think unless the first you know I might reconsider putting Jiang Wei but I have a sister because both J. Moran Cisco who they have to create crews out of two distinct groups the card is not to do that so he doesn't have to do that hi this is enough to do that he's gone they've all got started each group throws Jan was got a Starfleet crew plus a bunch of marquee how many it's about twenty five there and that we don't meet them already it's just their designated by the different paths when they take on the Starfleet uniforms I think they do that to your yeah I think they should have been a couple of episodes of conflicts but then because it's episodic they just want them in the uniforms as soon as possible and I we have a denture just our fate to participate but if it was more of a serialized saying I think they may hold off and they would explore that complex I'm not difficulty with dissemination a bit more nine they did a few later episodes where they did it time travel stuff back to whenever conflicts as if they had gone and how we we skipped over back to great right so yeah J. why does have to soldier together goes to cruise but what she does very quickly she wins over to kind of tie and then he does that work of soldiering them together to vote because it takes a certain general doesn't do much at work so there's a bit of a challenge that but with Cisco he has to so that together federation Starfleet underpaid Jordan creek including major Karen Rees who initially he's quite willing to kick since because the Stacia she does not want the Starfleet to be back home until she wants this to now be able to complete the project on stage yeah he is a huge amount of work to do to get house but also I mean I would say that %HESITATION pike does how fortunate again trust because he's taken over from Gabriel Lorca hello to Jason Isaacs we find that answer %HESITATION you could not yes he's been the captain of discovery for the first season but we find out that he's actually from the mirror universe and something pulls him over to the prime universe supposed prime Lorca over to the mirror universe he was probably killed immediately because he was being sought out for execution because he was treasonous so pike as happened to pick up a crazy thought as for the distrust and he basically prepare sock crazy to become the co he said if they come and they become a family and Siri need Sam and then waste last discovery at a point where Michael has been promoted to captain and she spoke to the them as captain so we can't judge Burnham yet as a captain thanks we've been on the list because she's captain we can't speak to that yet I'm because it's quite unique because there are only a few episodes and as we record this and we haven't seen any of those she's come under the discovery for a base of one episode when she was first officer in pike was off doing yeah but yeah but we've only ever seen her disobeying orders Browning often can't April causing a war one of those things where she just disobeys an order and goes off and does our admission lead story with us first officer for that going rogue logic is I'm gonna ask for forgiveness and not for permission yeah no within a known military organizations that's the kind of sometimes applicable principle but I don't think that really works within the thing that is Starfleet which is now part of the lecture part science yeah because I think there are ways to show %HESITATION that click I'm sure I'm right about this again trusts but there is a bit of a higher because I think this comes up in Voyager quite a bit where they have to say that this is not a democracy I'm the top ten I make decisions to Sashi quite imperialistic in a way where it's not pay to committee I mean they they have these committee meetings with officers but I feel like certain in Voyager there's only a certain amount of crazy and that number dwindles quite a bit because people die and they don't get replaced very often they set off with a hundred and seventy or some sun hello to them die then they absorb that Mickey curry and then people die and they absorb a few people here and there look at something like four crew members from the of the ship yeah that's got sucked into the delta quadrant a little bit off to them hello there for last mile before because they've already traveled quite a bit and I think it's already been in there for ten years or some sun but it's rare that they get more people off the shores of so they actually today's quite a lot of people as time goes on and so there should be a hundred and something else %HESITATION and you think surely they have some sort of system where they can have a vote they could have a forum and voice opinions because you know all these big decisions cake at manta there's not one where they find that planet thirty sevens where a bunch of people from nineteen thirty seven got pulled in by their caretakers are right because I don't think we've given that she's Voyager sets off after the maquis ship into the pipelines and the bad times but like the Bermuda triangle SPS they get pulled across the galaxy something like seventy thousand light years away from anywhere and it means that I'll take them at least seventy years to get back at the highest work they can day which obviously isn't sustainable either and so they have this prospect of becoming a yeah generational checked that they're trying to get home and they're going to go looking for a worm holes and other ways other technologies because they might find civilizations even more advanced in them and stuff like that they come across this planet with their human inhabitants and it turns out these people within that this caretaker has been pulling stuff for many many years she many centuries through once again it wasn't a caretaker who got thirty seconds I think they were abducted and taken on a flying saucer and taken by actually where %HESITATION Elaine up six days I can't remember it from the first C. as no I think it's the state's second season opener but it was me and to be part of the first season it was one of those consider season was cut short so the raptors who's ever actually produced for that season but they were paid and the second season yeah that was one of them the thirty sevens so they have Amelia Earhart that's how I may suggest that her disappearance was that she was kicked off on this on the planet and so some of them have been cryogenically frozen so she's one of these papers cryogenically frozen so she spend and preservation %HESITATION Simon they wake her up and she's she's a life again and there's this whole civilization of humans descended from these people from nineteen thirty seven and there's this option for the crazy if anybody wants to just settle somewhere because there's a human civilization they can do that and none of them volunteered to do that none of them volunteered to say they'll go off back on the Voyager this is seen in the episode where January says whoever wants to stay on this planet report to the Chicago by two at this particular time is a walking talking with her jacuzzi going down there to see who's turned up and she opens the door and there's no one that when I saw that I just thought it would be the funniest thing to have one person say poked her head out from between two piles of big dangerous boxes or something I just got out yes captain what can I do for you I was just doing a stock take what you doing in cargo bay two okay that might not see nothing is quite important because she says to the crew I'm giving you a choice yeah they make a choice and that's about it for the crew making choices that I have and I never got a option ever again so anything they like to settle here because there's ones where Harry has terrible lock way slough in this series and he never gets promoted and he's never done a proven himself and he's always just an ensign for seven years that we follow it's not all over the price never done see if in the mall and the hassle is terrible luck with relationships but there is one where he and another really and they really property fall enough and they have a really lovely fun relationship that you know her culture really ally her permit her minutes terribly heartbreaking in its first because her species they really combine with each other and it's an even deeper heart break when they're pulled apart from each other and it just feels like he should have already had the option to the stay with her mixtape up early episode with the thirty seven I think it's quite symbolic for the whole of their series that is Voyager because in a situation where it might seem reasonable to give people a choice sometimes they go through the motions of giving everyone a choice not to make a choice yeah that's one of the fundamental elements of democracy is that you say drive one every four years or so he said right now we giving you the choice for the duration of the holding the next parliamentary terms or whatever we're giving you the choice to not to make a choice so as long as you have that choice making ritual once every four years you don't agree that you're not going to be the one who makes any of the choices during the next four years and that seems to be what they do in the thirty sevens in absolute gorgeous %HESITATION and it's called the thirty seconds yeah well it's just a matter of going we're gonna acknowledge that our situation is somewhat dictatorial but it's fine because it's underpinned by the choice by the election what's not to make any choices and that is actually quite common to all of the Star Trek series they're they're going right we're really big of democracy but this particular organization isn't one this organization Starfleet that works for the big democratic organization that is federation it isn't one and it's dictatorial and that has to be falling with everyone because this is how we keep the federation tax and so it's constantly a common tree on what one has to do to hold democracy which is have these organizations at the barricades the non democratic organizations protecting civilians so inevitably as you're playing out that internal negotiation of how reasonable that situation is you're going to have situations where I left tenant comes into conflict with the commander about the commander's decision or will the entire crew comes into contact with the captain about captions decision was very early episode where of TNG where the card is kidnapped and is replaced with this close the clone gets the crew to just fly closer and closer closer to a star such that the radiation schedule appointments going to kill everyone and the question is that the plan was to find out is the idea must find out as we say no to captain is doing the wrong thing really I need any other situation the office is not the case the card can be trusted even when it definitely appears I would like to be doing the wrong thing he can be trusted to actually do the right thing but on that particular occasion no they do meet me in and that's a that's a resistance to it takes a toll authority when it doesn't have that trust factor shot one where writer has heightened or didn't meet new S. this is Carissa Pegasus for it with his previous captain any regrets it and he regretted it because they were right on the captain's wrong isn't it that they don't need me but they just refuse to follow any orders thank you so it's I think they disagree so fundamentally you as well he's ordering them to J. captains to commercial Crofton or some things were going to have to go by now I thought well it's not one where they are that also last episode of enterprise someone they intersect that with they have it so that it's Graham principal recordings that right because Watson on his way to go investigate and he knows what happened to it Choi is trying to help conceal him three this decision to tell Picard you know he's watching this holo program of the last days of the original enterprise as sort of inspiration and it's quite more of it actually that's really weird and they make it into a game which I think in a way it opens it up to be totally wrapped cons because I thought the whole program that's two hundred years that are fine you can crack on that the actors of all ages of course but they could do voice stuff they can see animation or bodies series I mean that would be so great for them to do the last three seasons and audio format or animated format would be for aliens that was something which way your my appetites have been thoroughly west yeah for the culminating founding of the federation yeah that would be home in the enterprise and they kept doing cool forwards to it by having a horse's name at the time travel from where he would come back and say torture right someone's messing with the timeline yeah I need you to fix these things there is this temporal Cold War going on and people keep changing it so that the federation doesn't get found it it's becoming very clear that your radiance to mental case he has to find %HESITATION really upset because it becomes clear as Archie does his thing that he he stops them Dorian's and the falcons fighting so all this and smoothing over relations that way friends he stopped them Dorians in the tower right fighting this is breathing are licensed so with this is the incremental moving towards I have found the federation the gonna do this and then towards the end of season four there's the beginning of these negotiations to sign this treaty which might be one of the first proton documents of the federation is not the federation yet and then running to the end of season four arches that drags forwards in time one more time by this time traveling together you've basically done everything you're going to do guessing the federation to happen this is going to happen in three years look it's you it's a big ceremony founding the federation well done I'm you and I felt sorry wrong a story arc leading up to the front because they're supposed to be there or more by several millions of solace in there before then as in there there's a big war that's meant to happen and that's partly high they'll come together you make me wish I wasn't so I could look at this stuff yeah I haven't I think that's something to do that because in TNG the first time the Romulans around that nobody's seen the Romulans four hundred years none there stop appearance I have an original series and there is a brush with them and I'm surprised but they're never seen because it's already one night and they have to deal with one of their minds the cats after not something that takes into REITs lag and also remotely piloted ship yeah the number of positions there's just a %HESITATION brushing with them so they are there but they're very insular but I think they're supposed to be some sort of fake war that happens and then the federation as party find it I'd have thought coalition come to gather a solid ice defends themselves and then the federation is built on those for planets that come together some something like that I was supposed to all happen that was supposed to play ball what happened in the last three seasons but they never called to get me as we know it sh since you wanna have gone right TNG DS nine version number and then we've got %HESITATION we've got a couple can finally bite the bullet watch division series for about the first day to nine episodes of the original series it's not Star Trek yeah does it recognize it even though it's it's had its second pilot she's got shocked and ran it it's become rebooted just this thing in which they all kind of that recognizable for the first few episodes the uniforms on the right color they keep calling them weapons lasers rather than phases the thing they work for isn't cold Starfleet I think at one point is called the United earth space probation C. as a callback to that much later on I think and start the machine pictures come back to that no no this voice homes things and listen to it okay kind of like in the corner for short will play the thing that they represent isn't called the federation early on it's called you the United earth so there is some sense that there's no such thing as nations left under federation hasn't come about yet it really takes until about the beginning of season two of the business services for Star Trek as we would recognize the thing that's constantly being paid hommage to buy T. I. G. all the way up to discovery for that to come about for the whole we are the federation would not going to sacrifice a federation principles that just doesn't exist from almost the whole of the first season of the original series and United are says reject very frying UP and enterprise this is really something that's happened in the in the last few years for them some sun that is quite integral to the enterprise is what's established in the film first contact sat from Cochran developing work capability yeah first contact its name checked again and again and again and again in enterprise yes this fundamental event including in the mirror universe as its that's it establishes the whole of the Merion ever since we've seen those in Merion of our stuff up until that point but it what happens in enterprise and it isn't a case of they get flung over shared or anything it just shows us that seem crazy in the mirror universe and the credits change they go dark the same chains removed which was a blessing but it goes by and it uses footage from the film and three does it entice them as saffron Cochran rather than shaking hands with civil can say come to visit he M. toxin and they over on their second stellar technology and so then it just goes three for this alternate history and obviously changing point so all of human history until then it's basically the same but they lean into that war side of them and this happens in something a bit twenty sixty six after a third World War after several for you so in the prime universe's late see the emergence of that what would the Cumming United arse so enterprise starts in twenty one fifty one and they operate under the United Artists whatever the nighter star fleet or whatever it is but it's quite a the first few episodes of enterprise make it clear that during that century between Zach from courtroom encounter between first contact with Vulcans and the big events price the falcons have been helping but also doing a whole lot of going no we're not going to give you that technology we have to see whether you're ready for it yeah seven doing quite a lot of sitting back and going yeah they're upstairs and see if see what they develop by themselves and I think that really gets to the dating into this a bit more as well I think in discovery quite suddenly with Spock because it turns out that Michael Burnham is the adopted sister of Spock her parents are killed and she is raised by Sarachan Amanda Spock's parents and so she is reduced as the older sister of Spock and then they do the whole arc that ends up explaining why he is never mentioned her her existence is classified in all of this but with Spock they establish and then deeper eight sat happen after discovery spends long off to the future the ones who are left behind said pike and Spock they have to be deeper if someone happened and Spock talks about eight what will the com familiar chess is the prime directive where they shouldn't interfere with pre war civilizations Shingo poke and basically stopped %HESITATION and poking at things before people are at eight if they can't come up to space to meet us we don't go dine involved in them you know this alien abductions stuff lots so that's why the Vulcans before him hi I'm back and they don't get involved and they humans see this with resentment because I think what you could have just given us says she could have just helped us but the vocals are very measured they say no we need to see you develop this for yourselves and build the maturity for yourselves and show us that you can be right there and the galaxy it's not what you think it is and then it turns eighteen extent they're right I mean it feels like overbearing parenting the antagonism between humans and Vulcans and an enterprise's news because this constant refrain from all the way from the original series through first contact up to the end of origins constant refrain is that humans and Vulcans are brothers they are not the initial making friends from another planet that meant that the federation could happen where's you know enterprise this antagonism is quite yet but it shows again the idea that it's a hard road to get to that level of trust in law except it's actually quite fitting from the he says your politics conflict I like Thai they did that high they wrote that what we see in first contact as the origin for I determined empire rises and the merry universe I think that was really clever and I we have all it's my favorite thing about the whole thing I think it's merry universe and I'd love to have seen hi there would have developed that more in the %HESITATION series because at first so she would have rocks my world is shared think that she's high recaps Giorgio as the emperor so let's be clear about what happens at the end of the mirror universe to process all of enterprise is that the enterprise crew get hold of a starship that's been from there from the prime universe from the future of the prime universe and it's the defiant less ETS and the original series we have a call to this yet but we are going to get to and they've done something with something that happened in the original series the ship just disappears asserts the original service different which is a starship like the enterprise not the Deep Space Nine before him the enterprise crew in enterprise dark universe form sort Merion bus when they get a hold of the starship that's much much faster than anything that everyone at the school well it sure takes it to us planning to take over as I'm and run the last minute how she cites %HESITATION kills has she some planned all along KMG Texas as emperor and that's it it's over and I'm sorry yeah we'll get back to the prime universe yeah it is a fantastic way to Homer universe thing we haven't seen the original series founding of the man as a person we will the whole mirror universe thing goes the way that the federation its rates US relationship with other planets is definitely good even though it's vegetarian space socialism even though it's the United Nations even though it's having to work together the alternative which is a human empire human space empire is out and it's basically of all humans for psychopaths if all humans have no capacity for empathy and roll murderous creators and it was not just how the people outside the empire includes life why it's healthy humans because everyone's constantly having to fear from don't know he's gonna kill you here what would they do with the emperor Georgia carrots and discovery is great because they have to have her go to the prime universe learn a few things and then go back into the other system vision but you know she goes back to yeah you don't know where she's been sent to you and Chico state the porcelain portal which is guarded by the guardian offer or if a doctor is a bit like a setup for a spin off series just well done if you made it to the hands of all thoughts and may not come as a shock but 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Audiovisual Cultures episode 84 – Selling Democracy: Examining Language in No automated transcript

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this is audiovisual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and cultural production with me paula blair visit forward slash av cultures to find out more and to join the pod this is a run through of a talk i’m going to give to a friend’s ma module called language and film and television my presentation is called selling democracy examining language in no i’ve been doing some comparative research on the use of archival footage in the 2012 films no and good vibrations and this was by way of expanding outwards and starting to do comparative studies from my research on film and visual culture in contemporary post-agreement inverted commas post-conflict northern ireland and the comparison was to examine the ways cultural products dealing with the past so these two feature films that deal directly with the past so they’re based on true stories they’re versions they’re imaginings of a truth they’re not trying to be truthful be or give accurate accounts but they both are grounded in actual history by use of archival material and i wanted to examine the different ways that they both do that and i’ve been doing that recently on my blog before i left academia that was an article i was working on with intention to send it to a journal but things went very wrong and i got very ill and it’s taken me a few years to find my way back to it and try to do something with that because it was that’s quite a late stage of drafting that all of that happened and i’d done so much research that i wanted to try and revive that again also thinking about it in light of you know because noah’s about the referendum the plebiscite in chile that resulted in a return to democracy of a kind and i think just seeing that thinking about that again in the light of what’s happened in the uk after the eu referendum and a very slim majority wanting to leave without really knowing what that is and i think you know it’s about a not just so slim majority wanting to move into democracy but again not necessarily quite knowing what they’re voting for so just some very broad reduced context of history-ish of chile the republic of chile is a former colony of spain it has a long history of resistance to any kind of rule from the pitches the indigenous people of that part of latin america they lived independently from the incas when the region was under inca rule and then when spain colonized again they continued to have a very successful resistance and live independently of from the colony and then in 1818 chile was declared independent and a republic in its own right and then in around 1888 the republic had essentially quashed them a pitches they were really very marginalized they were beaten back and things have really changed substantially for them in the past 140 years geographically because i think that’s important and i’ll talk a little bit in more depth about the geography of chile in a bit it’s a long strip on the southern cone that is surrounded by natural frontiers so in the north it’s got the atacama desert which is the driest place on earth to the west it’s got the south pacific and many many islands off the west coast to the east it’s really shaped in the east by the andes and bordered by argentina on the east and then on the site at various sites because it curls around the size of the cone that southern part is really bordered by the antarctic you know across this long strip of a country you’ve got really extreme temperatures and real extremes in humidity in this one country the different parts of it just have very very differing geographical features and so those natural frontiers make it shaped a bit like an island even though it’s part of a really huge subcontinent and it’s really interesting if you look at the film by patrice yogusman the pearl button who he goes through that geography and describes it as very similar to an archipelago really because of the islands and it’s for the islands where a lot of the pitches still are and they’re really quite pushed out and marginalized there’s not just so many of them in mainland chile anymore industrially chile is probably best known for its mineral resources it’s a major global exporter of copper and lithium i mean so many of our batteries and things anything you have that is run by batteries lithium has very likely come from chile and probably similar with a lot of the copper that we all use and that is in all of our basic appliances and things in the early 1970s i think the election was it was 1969 or 1970 under democracy a socialist government was elected with salvador allende as president and in 1973 this was overthrown in quite a shock military coup then the junta that followed this that was led by general augusto pinochet ruled for 16 years and during that time thousands of people were killed or disappeared or interned and tortured in detention camps or they were exiled and particularly the exile that’s an important point when we think about no this is in part a reason why i am very interested in the comparison between northern ireland and chile because i think a lot of that geography but a lot of those figures i think have crunched numbers a bit and if you look at the likes of population size and then percentages of how many people this involves it’s quite similar in number even though the scales are vastly different and so i think it’s really useful i think in terms of affectivity and i suppose having empathy for each other and seeing those connections where people are marginalized and they’re fighting for the rights the culture that comes from that in a ways that we use cultural products like films to try and come to terms with the past and try and hold account to the past even when we might be on the side of a thing it’s not necessarily a good or the best thing it’s really quite a tricky one ethically this one so noel directed by pablo loren and this is really the third in his loose pinochet trilogy released in 2012 it’s a critical reimagining of the plebiscite held in 1988 looking specifically at the no campaign and so the no vote was to say no to eight more years of penichet automatically without an election and no one by i think it was a 56 percent electorate majority there was a general election in 1990 and pinichat lost a consultation government so a coalition socialist government was then fairly consistent until recent years so we really were thinking about the way that this film looks back to that past this session is really about thinking through different approaches to language and this from i think from a more very very broad strokes linguistic point of view which is the angle the module is coming up this is for so some general discussion points around this i’ve got subtitling in there but i’m not really going to get into that myself but that’s something i’m encouraging the class to look at but things that will point out things like cultural currency and what does that mean what does that communicate accents and exiles because i think uh just looking at gay garcia bernal is really important for that and why casting him is so significant and then communication through song and dance and thinking about indigenous people in their languages what i’m really going to focus on in the rest of the session i’ll look at it a bit in the presentation but then when i move on into looking at the film and sequences from a film we’re going to look at film language because that’s probably where i come in really as the outsider to the class is thinking through aspects of film language that students from a linguistic point of view will necessarily have the terminology for so to think about international cultural currency what i mean by that just looking specifically at the star of the film gail garcia bernal he’s probably the only actor in the film that would be internationally recognizable the rest are all very well known in chile but not really well known unless you specifically seek out chilean film and so gail garcia bernal brings a huge amount of star part people will go to see no in the cinema because it’s a girl garcia bernal film he has that kind of attraction but also he’s important because actors can be indoor texts they bring baggage with them from their previous projects and i think specifically in this because as we’ll look at in a bit his character renee sevedra one of the ways that he traverses santiago and surrounding areas is on a motorcycle and one of the things garcia bernal will have been famous for at this point is starring as the young ernesto che guevara in the motorcycle diaries from 2004 there’s just um an evocation there of this guy has played revolutionaries before and i think renee is an accidental revolutionary in a way because he really wants to stay out of it and he gets embroiled in it his character is very interesting because he’s an amalgamation of many different people he’s an individualized fiction of lots of different people who ran the campaign i think through him that’s where the marketing language is really dissected and investigated it’s probed and i think the film takes a skeptical in the sense of stepping back and looking at the details considering the evidence using skeptical in that way when i say he takes a skeptical look at such a character he’s also somebody who’s multilingual he brings a lot with him because we’ve seen him in francophone and anglophone films quite a lot too he’s really recognizable also importantly for this film he’s distinctive because of his mexican accent and that’s really important because his character rene sevedra has been an exile he is a returned exile so that’s notable and he’s somebody who is in stark contrast to people he encounters of his father’s generation and who know his father who end up walking out of the campaign he’s leading because they’re so disgusted at the marketing language that he brings to it and the way he’s packaging and selling the idea of happiness through democracy he’s somebody who doesn’t quite sit right with everyone so he’s this insider outsider he’s got this ambivalent personality that all comes through in his mexican accent so to think a bit more about that i think there’s a sense of betrayal from his father’s contemporaries and colleagues and friends you get the sense that because this is somebody who’s referred to as being known well by the leaders of the new campaign it’s likely this person is a known socialist he’s talked about in present tense which is an indication that either he is a disappeared person and they don’t know what’s happened to him or this is somebody who’s still in exile he remains in exile presumably in mexico because it’s not safe but we don’t get the details of that this is just something unspoken that is implied that we just have to make conclusions about from knowing the context i think it is very important to just stress that he is a combination of lots of different real people and there’s not really a personal criticism on any one person it’s really just taking a critical look at the campaign and how it operated and how the ads went because it resulted in democracy but what kind of flavor of democracy was it and again this is where there’s a similarity with the northern ireland peace agreement and that it’s a very uneasy piece and there are things that people have had to let go that really cause a lot of harm and i think something very similar has happened in democracy coming to chile where it hasn’t necessarily been better for everybody so just a little bit more an accent i think it’s notable that on the yes campaign the initial i’m not sure if the name of the character has ever actually said i haven’t managed to clarify this to searches but the guy who seems to be initially leading the the yes marketing campaign is argentinian and so he is presented as a sympathetic outsider from a parallel political situation in the bordering country so this is 1988 and earlier in that decade argentina had recently emerged from its own military dictatorship and it was in substantial international debt and so i think the idea here is that the character in presenting to the yes board on which there are military leaders there are very right-wing politicians this is somebody who is telling them quite candidly you know we wish we had a pain a chat because our country’s in a bit of a mess now since we moved back to democracy rather than dictatorship and so you guys are super lucky and we’re super jealous so it’s that attitude that he brings to it he has a very romantic vision of life under dictatorship because he is from the status quo he is not somebody who would be in any way marginalized or his rights impinged on those are more things that are very useful to think about in terms of aspects of language so if we think then about national cultural currency now a really fascinating part of no and one of the reflexive things that it does is you have real people coming in and re-performing those earlier versions of themselves so an example is patricio bagnados who was very well known very recognizable in chile a broadcast journalist from a left side of the political spectrum we need to check the details if you want to look into this more yourself as far as i’m aware he was somebody who hadn’t really been allowed to work properly for a while he was somebody who was suppressed by the dictatorship and so he is recruited by the new campaign to do a lot of the presenting of the new television segments so this idea that they had 15 minutes a day in the run-up to the election so he was doing a lot of work with those and it’s really interesting because you have scenes where it has the actual man playing himself about 23 years earlier that’s just one example there are loads of examples of this because a lot of the players in the new video so a lot of the singers a lot of the actors they come back and they re-perform and they have recreated costumes and they’re all of course visibly older because they’re all supposed to be reasonably young and carefree in the videos and of course they’re 20 odd years older and so that’s clear young people who were saying their 20s before first time around they’re now in their mid 40s and 50s and so on and so everybody looks visibly older and so there’s a very conscious device happening here where it’s this collapse of the past and the present for me anyway they evoke this feeling of it’s still not over they’re still campaigning for this it’s still very much in the present because things are not as they should be for society so there’s a lot of that there are a lot of recognizable people from the real world in this film as well if we think about that then because if we think about the archival footage we have something that’s really very poignant in the film and we can think about dance as language and what that communicates so if we think about the quicker i’m not sure of the pronunciation there so forgive me if i’m getting that wrong this isn’t a dance that depicts according ritual i think specifically it’s between a rooster and a hen the idea is that it’s associated with rural laborers so it’s the courtship between a farmer and a rural woman this is something that was appropriated by pinochet’s dictatorship it was declared as the national dance of chile in 1979 so this is a good six years into the dictatorship and awful atrocities happening to the people lots of oppression of rural people there’s an absence of men because it’s mostly men who are the ones who get arrested get interned or disappeared and so on just at the mirrors hint that they could be dissenters a protest to this was the women who were say the spices of men who had been killed or disappeared or exiled the spices to people who had been lost to the dictatorship in some way they would dance this cording dance alone and visibly alone in collectives and so this is something that is used to very poignant effects in the campaign and it’s focused on a bit during the film and i think specifically renee isn’t happy about the inclusion of this because he’s trying to paint a picture of the joy that will come to chile when they vote for democracy he’s very much of the school of let’s move on and forget the past shall we i think in part because he’s been shielded from it he’s been very far away in mexico which is very far north from chile it feels like a world away it’s a whole subcontinent away he’s been very distant from the whole thing but also economically it doesn’t affect him his life doesn’t change he’s not really even that interested and he keeps complaining that everything’s a drag he doesn’t like the pulling of the heartstrings that this does he doesn’t want people to feel sad he wants people to feel joyous and he wants to manipulate them into buying no as a product buying in to know basically again thinking about more marginal ways of communicating the pitches they make up something like 85 percent of the indigenous people in chile and i highly recommend if you watch the pearl button there’s quite a lot from them in interviews where you know they speak their own language and explaining i think there’s some so i need to re-watch it actually if i remember correctly they talk quite a bit about really having to cling on to their own language and it being very marginalized and that spanish is really taking over and specifically in in the film no their absence is notable there’s an absence of them visually but references to them are very much implied so the pitches they are talked about and very derogatory language is used about them specifically by lucha guzman who is the boss of renee and the the advertising company that they seem to work for he also becomes the leader of the s campaign so renee is equivalent on yes when he’s talking about demo pitches to one of the other yes campaign leaders he uses homophobic and racist slurs there’s an acknowledgement of the erasure of indigenous peoples in the misunsen so in the decor of a restaurant that we see renee and luchuwin early on there’s a jungle-like setting it’s not fully clear there’s a figure that’s quite possibly inca or i’m a pichi but it’s quite a fetishized image of a native that idea so again there’s just this acknowledgment that there’s erasure of these people going on they don’t have a voice but they’re fetishized for a themed restaurant for example so again they’re used to buy and sell notably when the first televised campaigns go out and there’s a long sequence in which everybody is watching the no one and then straight after the yes video there’s a pardon in the s segment with rapa nui children singing for pinichat so some of the lyrics in this song are mahu ariki nui the child you see her visibly crying as she’s singing these words and maori this means healed great lord i think it’s appropriated as quite a patriotic bent there’s footage of this child who’s very scantily clad because she’s in traditional married dress traditional polynesian dress of the general hugging and kissing her in the context in which this is presented you don’t know why this girl’s crying i think in the montage that it’s put into it’s presented as if she’s just so proud but you don’t know if she’s crying because she’s made to do this and she’s actually miserable who knew who knows or did it means so much to her and then he’s on a photo opportunity where he needs to look like well i love all of my peoples including these um polynesian people on easter island which is a geopolitical territory of chiles so there’s a very propagandist thing going on it’s does he actually care about indigenous people well he certainly goes to great lengths to look as if he does and i think this is very notable because if you look in contrast at the no campaign there’s an absence these people aren’t there at all yes acknowledge them and they acknowledge them in quite negative ways or presented as positive but actually very appropriating ways and this is so important because no just doesn’t acknowledge them you would think that yes being shown to be derogatory towards them would imply that the no leftist people would be true socialists and that they are fighting the corner of the indigenous people as well but they’re just completely absent and so i think that absence that silence is amplified by the fact that they’re actually acknowledged at least even if it is in derogatory ways by the yes campaign so i think there’s actually quite a lot to unpick there and so just to think then a little bit more about that geography so if you’re watching on the video on screen i’ve got a map view of chile in the south pacific you can really see the difference because marked by the pin is where easter island is or rapa nui and how very far away from santiago it is and mainland chile you can also just see this series of islands that chili bricks sign into there too and then it’s just this long strip along the bottom cone and it breaks up into many many islands i think it’s interesting to point this out from a language point of view because if you look up some information on rapa nui today it seems like spanish is becoming increasingly popular as a language and marry less so and i think politically if it’s of interest if you want to explore this further i’ve written about this in a blog recently just tracking to quite severe swings between left and right in the government of chile and it’s interesting because in chile the same president cannot hold office two terms in a row so i think in a way from a very uninformed point of view i’m suggesting that it feels like there’s just this continual every four years passing between right and left right and left right and left governments because you can’t return the same president for two terms in a row you can return the same president innumerable times but they just can’t hold office two terms in a row and if somebody’s really popular so it has been passing between the same two people for a while now so it’s been a socialist and then a billionaire right winger and back and forth and back and forth for a bit it’s indicative of a country that today doesn’t really know where it stands on these things it can’t settle and then there’s no type of government that can really get a good run up things to maybe address issues the socialist coalition different parties made this up and that’s why you’ve got that six banded rainbow because those colors each represent the sex parties involved in the coalition they between them were in par for let’s say from 1990 until was it 20 i’m not oh i can’t remember neither year but i think definitely 2010 somebody right wing was voted in i remember that because it was the same year that david cameron became prime minister in the uk with the coalition government so i think for nearly 20 years don’t quote me on that do check but i think for a good block of time it was passed between different socialist parties i think there was tremendous frustration at the idea of well we’re just gonna throw up a monument to these things and then not really ever dealing with anything that happened and so i think a lot of people got off scot-free including pinochet himself i mean he remained leader of the army for a good few years and then when he retired he was wanted in many countries and he was arrested in london at one point but he never was charged for anything he was never charged for his crimes and his human rights abuses he got away with everything and he died in 2004 he got off scot-free so and no one from his administration as far as i’m aware has ever encountered any justice for um anything that happened there’s just a huge amount going on in this one film that you could go off and explore keeping it relevant to thinking about language you know it’s really important to think then about i think the song sequences in those parts with the rapa nui language the maori language songs because they come up in the subtitles i think no matter what language you have your subtitles in they come up in the roman characters it’s the maori that you’re reading so you don’t actually know what is being said in the song so this is something i had to search for and figure it out i think there’s nothing from them pictures speaking at all in it so thinking then about where i come in with thinking about language you’re thinking about the film language and this so i’ve already mentioned things like elements of the misunsense specifically decor so what are we talking about when we say reading film language so the four main areas to breakdown is cinematography editing nissan and sound so the cinematography is everything to do with camera so that includes where it’s positioned proximity what kind of focus has it got what kind of lens has it got what kind of camera is it is it digital is it film is it 16 millimeters at 35 what’s the focus like is there a focus rack is it on a zoom is it not is it moving is it static what kind of movement is it is it panning is it dollying is it zooming is it dolly zooming so there’s loads of areas to go with that with editing we’re thinking about everything to do with how the film is put together and plays out on screen this is the cutting what way is it cut what kind of transitions are we seeing are we thinking about in camera editing are we thinking about editing styles are we thinking about very long takes or are we thinking about lots of cuts happening in a short space of time what is the structure of the film those sorts of questions then with misonsen this is everything we can see in the frame and so this includes lots of elements so this includes colors that we’re seeing it includes the actors where actors or things are positioned so they’re blocking it can include where they are relative to the camera at any time the props the decor the lighting is their shadow is there not what’s going on with costumes what are people wearing where are they what’s their location what’s their setting are they inside are they outside what sort of building is it uh what sort of place are they in all of those sorts of things so absolutely everything that you see is the amazon sen then with sound with the audio this is everything you can hear and this could be music and this can be diegetic or non-diegetic or extra diegetic music and dialogue can be sound effects or a voiceover whether it’s in stereo or mono what the balance is and i think the balance is a really interesting one with no because if you haven’t already i highly recommend watching know with headphones on because some very interesting stuff is going on in the sign balance it switches between your ears depending on what you’re seeing and i think there’s something in that relationship those are the sorts of things that we’re thinking about because all of these things on their own and working in conjunction with each other they all communicate loads of stuff without the film actually blatantly telling you things just some examples from this so earlier i had mentioned when i was talking about cultural currency i mentioned that gail garcia bernal had starred in the motorcycle diaries and i think it’s pretty significant that one of his vehicles of choice and the one that we see him use the most and know as renee cevedra is a motorcycle so i want to think about what kind of vehicle is this it’s a solitary use vehicle pretty much it has connotations of being alone being strong being independent being free and free is the key word because it’s a sense of freedom and happiness through freedom that renee sells as an advertising designer an executive so on screen if you’re seeing it is a still from the film of him on the open road he’s quite central in the frame he’s outside the city of santiago he’s on his way to a big choice where they’re all going to get together and discuss the campaign okay so this is evocation then of freedom so he’s on a country road he’s flanked by trees and countryside and so i think this is a really notable image of renee this is one of the ways that we can start to learn about his character through looking at the ways in which he moves through space so another one this next shot i want to look at is a shot of renee on another one of his vehicles of choice the skateboard so what kind of vehicle is this well it’s a single occupancy vehicle again it’s a sequence in which he is in a very carefree way just sailing on down the road he’s weaving around things it’s a very 80s sense of freedom as well because i mean i for one i can’t really look at especially a grown man on a skateboard and not think about back to the future not think about marty mcfly especially with the jeans and the type of trainers that renee savage is wearing at this point you know in the shirt hanging out from under his jacket the very 80s hair he’s got this little tiny it’s not even a ponytail it’s just this little very eeries his hair is verging on a mullet and then just this one long length of hair in the middle and so you can see that a bit from the back view of him on the skateboard and so again there’s there’s just this characterization of him as a lone wolf type character he traverses space with ease he’s very comfortable with being on his own you know even though he has a small child he’s very often leaving him with the nanny he doesn’t use his car all that often so he he has a car and it’s ref i think it’s referenced more than he actually uses it you see him more in the skateboarder in the motorcycle and he’s never carrying anything he never has a bag or anything even though he’s supposedly working on stuff all of the time he’s very mobile and so i get this idea especially when we see him on the skateboard and he’s waving around he’s not really holding a straight line or anything and it’s very early on in the film we see him on the skateboard i think it’s this idea of his mobility and the ease with which he moves he veers left and right because i think he’s very malleable at this point i think he becomes more rigid as the film goes along and he’s in a more you know the motorcycle in the car you need to stick to your lane basically whereas in this he’s in his lane but he’s veering around so i think that’s pretty significant and that’s a clip that with the class i want to look at try to do a sequence analysis on this because other things going on here are there’s a lot of sun flare okay so there’s this idea that it’s very early morning it’s a very bright sun we’re southern hemisphere so i guess it’s spring in october so i think this is a very springtime sun if i’m right about that very long shadows lots of sunflower going on the camera is very mobile we see renee from a lot of different angles and importantly this is one example of nanny where the camera crosses the line okay it crosses the invisible both the 180 and 30 degree rule lines it’s quite disorientating it’s just a little bit jarring it’s not hugely jarring because i think this happens where the camera is actually moving it’s not cutting when it does this but it’s jarring in the sense that your position has changed and your point of view of looking at renee is changed within the shot so i think again there’s something going on there that really needs to be probed a bit more so this is a point where for the class that’ll be running i intend to then have a more general discussion and if anybody has any specific questions about anything that’s where i will want to draw on those and then also look at sequence analysis and look at parts that i think are very notable and demonstrate those issues in film language that i think are important and should be useful to bring to a module that’s coming from more of a linguistic point of view some recommended viewing if you want to try to get up to speed on a lot of these broader issues initially i highly recommend just about any film by patricio guzman but i think especially the pearl button and nostalgia for the light really very beautiful deeply moving and quite difficult to watch at times but highly worth it films from 2010 and 2015 and he himself is in exile and has been living in europe since the early 70s but also from the 1970s the battle of chile i think they’re really important films to try and get up to speed with a lot of the issues that would help fill out the backdrop i’d also recommend tony monero and post-mortem which again are very difficult films to watch but are really worth watching if you get through them and they are the first two of this loose pinichet trilogy from pablo lorraine they’re all linked by the actor alfredo castro who plays lucho guzman the leader of the yes campaign in no he plays the lead character in tony monero who is obsessed with tony monero in the film saturday night fever and he’s a bit of a microcosmic look at a type of dictator character and he’s also in postmortem as a morgue worker who falls in love with i think she’s a dancer who seems to be a revolutionary so those are very difficult views but they’re really worth watching if you can and for the class i’ve also supplied a bit of a reading list that isn’t on here a few details on the last side just if people want to get in touch and check out the rest of what i do including a link to my blog where i have been writing about know quite recently thank you very much for visiting my page this has been a cozy peapod production with me paula blair the music is common ground by airton used under a creative commons 3.0 non-commercial license and is downloadable from episodes release every other wednesday subscribe on apple podcasts spotify amazon music or wherever you find your podcasts see the show notes for a video link if you need auto captions be part of the conversation with av cultures on facebook and twitter or iv cultures pod on instagram as well as patreon membership one-off support is appreciated at buy me a forward slash pea blair i produce and edit the show by myself and i am grateful for any support for this work for more information and episode links visit thank you so much for listening catch you next time



Audiovisual Cultures episode 54b – Derry Girls episode 1 analysis part 2 with Dr Andrew Shail automated transcript

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it’s not girls garrus garrus garrus the vowels are very different in the northwest and they are in there ace hello and welcome to audio-visual cultures the podcast exploring arts and culture production I’m Paula Blair this is part 2 of our double episode in which dr. and Rochelle and I closely analyzed an observe episode one of the channel 4 comedy dairy girls many thanks to our members at forward slash a V cultures for your continued support we could really use a lot more so please do listen to the end for details on ways to fund this podcast which is free to access but not to make and for ways to get in touch for night do you enjoy the dairy girls nerd first I’m Friday in the first meeting of team Jackson which is my Friday 11:00 a.m. so my group I will get one of them to tweet surgeon Monica Jackson and say we’re having a seminar group is named after you we’ve got it paused roughly where we finished in the last session I just wanted to point out that just look at social news face she has proper comedy physique I think she’s really physically expressive and funny I call it clowning but not in the you swear it means somebody goofing planning where some is very carefully playing a part which is funny just because it’s large and Penta might Megan but also I mean you go Claire’s Jen thanks declare and Jamison I’m so confused it’s dressed and the big sister of the week earlier threatened as staring daggers there’s quite a lot going on picking up where we left off the other day which was the 13 minute mark and of course we have an outbreak bear and we have a reprise of so that is informally made to be they’re not the series but as the episode at least feel like it begins the first serious isn’t it comes back again at the very end or maybe I miss remember and move did you bring the cranberries back at the end of the series but I think it’s their other big

lingu so weird about 13 because structure is determined by a box limitations in which you have to work it’s advertising that’s another reference isn’t it that your average lovely fans person who knows nothing about Northern Ireland would just fly past them so why is it that Michele says it declare player whose clutching a book which has got photographs of African although actually maybe she means that Clara is Bobby Sands because Bobby Sands is she’s aa and she’s on a fast Lisa McGee thought how can I pile in the dairy specific or the northern islands references it feels like it’s gone from right I want these freezers I want these colloquialisms I want these Ulster isms are want these references to Northern Irish Ulster Ethan how can I get there in the least clunky way while also building characterization Clare’s ferry she wants to be socially aware but she’s also quite hungry styrofoam we would say she’s a quick nerd a hunger strike her and that will be completely lost in your on 90% of people in the UK people in Britain they’re most likely of heard of Bobby Sands because that’s the only person to do with anything to do with our republicanism that most British people can name unless I mean this is a few years after hunger coming out which was really widely seen so this is a reference that’s actually culturally quite to the fore in the past 10 years as well I would argue I must have met them not having seen hunger and being English I didn’t know you’re a bit too young naqshi because it was 1981 so idiot he won that winter did you just call me young I said you’re too young for this right but in a very specific situation I can hear you’re young for this you’re a win okay but maybe here’s a relevant point listen McGee’s not from there and if you’ve grown up in parts of the country where there are murals everywhere of this man because he is the fierce he is literally the face of the Republican movement when we were in Derry we did see that yeah we saw murals of him there’s murals of him all over West Belfast ramírez FEMEN diary as well I mean Derry not so much but he is there he is that because it is individualized and him and even Michelle here who says bring Bobby Sands would have been a baby when Bobby Sands went on home yeah but it would be something it’s baked into the cultural memory it’s just part of the culture memory when I’m saying that you’re too young for this reference your mum and dad for example know who Bobby Sands is because they saw the whole coverage on the news the 66 days of his hunger shake they saw and then people ten years older than you for example mean even your older brother might just about feels enough to vaguely remember those speletons that’s how Steve McQueen out there from Hickory even knew but that was because when he was a child’s growing up in London he saw this happening on the news every day we should what type of my folks do you want to verify my claim that’s an example but people around their ages are likely to have heard of them and this is a program that is for young people but it’s nostalgic for a pass on of the past where people my age and older will be aware of them because it’s not just the girls themselves it’s their parents and their grandparents and at center generational so it’s not exclusive to you know it is about girls and these teenagers at the forefront but it’s intergenerational and nobody’s really excluded because of that I do wonder if the cast of Derry girls had to have it I

mean they’ve all been working long enough television mostly again a lot of the maxi are a lot older than their characters they maybe will have seen or at least in the war films i Conger and that’s not the only film about hunger strikes there are many and there are many things that are shown on television over there and like I say the murals everywhere and there will be some of that in the sizes well it’s mostly in the noise but there’d be a bit in parts of the site where some of them have grown up I’m just looking at how all those small collections and she was born in nineteen ninety three twenty four when this was being filmed so she’s playing somebody who’s eight years young younger members of the car Nicola Coughlin who plays Claire is closer to my age she’s in her early thirties I think you’d call yourself old I am working well I am fantastic only press those runs a great little touches just you don’t need to use this name it’s funny because these are old from a very overtly Cossack background and yet the names are actually quite I mean or allure and air but any so fast even you get the odd errand but Claire and Michelle I suppose through quite neutral names and that anybody could out of them but I lost kind to him any Claire some Michels were in my school when I was this age but then it’s actually in the cernium so you could cernium psyche Devlin you know and I wonder is that a reference to Bernadette Devlin Mikulski or I mean the name of McCool I think is the way a way of going you can’t get more Irish yeah you can’t no no me no that’s part of folklore and the cool so all it is a national folkloric being Schumer actually digging into that just a drill down on that a little bit because we know nothing about her father we don’t know if that’s her mother’s maiden name because we never hear grandpa Joe’s name I don’t think right so we don’t know if that’s that family’s name or it’s her father her unknown father’s name and so there’s this mythical fan McCullough’s a mythical giant she’s the offspring of either spontaneously reproducing mum or her mum and some mythical giant this is finally something I’m a big stickler for cinematography and in this shot the camera was just ever so slightly wobbling from left to right this frame so that the data rail behind them is violating the rule of thirds it’s almost exactly in the middle of the screen a little bit above the middle of screen it looks a little bit staged and yet the camera is just slightly wobbling from left to right like somebody decided we’re gonna create this little free song of it’s a an observational documentary rather than it’s fiction one of the schoolgirls being in the IRA I mean that’s so close to home anyway when I was at school there were so many girls with familial connections to loyalist paramilitaries and this is just again it’s very normal I was bullied at school and nothing was ever done the police because their dads were in the UVF or whatever it was they’re just so many I’m not gonna list them all because of this be saying letters are chewed up do it around where I grew up there was the UVF the lvf the UDA the L yeah loyalist freedom fighters there were quite a lot of groups and they were all fighting with each other because they’re all dealing drugs on each other’s patches let’s pause for a moment on this composition where we can see the wings doing these frames just talking to the girls and they’re about to say no you perfect but it’s framed so that he’s saying this completely sensible thing of whoa you know practicality dictates since people have to go to the toilet I obviously need to use the girls toilet so he’s sensible but the framing is shoved over to the left side of the frame looking into off-screen space because it’s sealing always ask what can I see the ceiling and that just makes everything feel a bit wrong he’s kind of crammed up to the edge of the frame usually when someone’s looking off into off-screen space left you put them on the right side of the frame but now it just looks like he’s looking up against a brick wall yeah so that force out is the fact that he’s gonna get an answer which is just utterly counter to the sensible shadows cast fluorescent lighting that’s on the ceiling of the disco corridor and then there’s shadowing on his business shadowing over his eyes that make a tiny bit sinister and saying the most innocuous thing yeah I think the school scenes were found and hunter house school and Belfast and you mentioned when we were watching a later episode in series 2 that they were in the Strand any spot there’s a bit of painting back and forth between darian yeah it’s mostly the external locations that are in Derry do you like secretly in the privacy of your own head call it Belfast girls I think it’s just a bone of contention because it doesn’t bother me because I understand the production contacts and there’s more studio space for example I think the house is useful I think that’s an actual ice it’s not a studio that’s Erin and oral is home I think it’s an actual house but then the street where they film of the exterior is a different street because I’m just looking into locations where things are filmed at the minim it’s a strange one because I think there’s just tension between the two cities quite a bit anyway so I think it’s a real bone of contention that this is supposed to be dairy but a lot of it’s about nothing dairy people don’t really like very much but nobody else is terribly bothered because it’s just such a great show and it’s been so important and it’s been received so well everywhere else that’s really all that matters I think know that I’m sad we did on the London Irish yeah yeah we basically said that this was a necessary precursor to dairy girls because it was the process of refining a common tongue that was essential before creating something that was this sweet anyway so we’ve done about eight seconds what I wanted to point out is that James is just gonna be constantly coming up against this the oddness of his surrounding yeah he’s the proxy character for most viewers that’s it that’s it exactly he is the way in like it’s such a clever way of doing it vo it’s a channel for comedy this is the first episodes people meet me and hear me speaking here in England and it’s just like we are from different worlds what was this crazy play a girlfriend you know but I get and the things that I’ve realized seems normal to me we’re not normal at all and then most of the rest of the country I come from it’s just culturally there’s just such a massive difference and to see that through the eyes of a teenage boy especially and this otherwise homosocial world of girls is quite fascinating and that he’s a boy in a world of girls he’s making that funny noise and that just he’s framed like this it’s layer after layer after layer of saying he’s on another planet he’s just got order confusion because it’s like that I mean I know so many people who have moved to Northern Ireland for work for example they come from England and they’re like what so so if I have a crisis pregnancy I can’t tell you anything about that or what is going on here politically there isn’t that was a brilliant little moment where Louisa Holland without being the central character in the frame off to the left of the frame always doing yeah just silence it for a moment and we just watch what she does we’ll go back a bit and we’ll just see that yes so close heaven moment of frickin ice is like my brain sugar is dangerously low she grabs Michelle and Aaron’s as you grab stimuli and so Monica – later first names difficult and often the left of the frame just staring off into space Louisa Harlan just at one point she picks up her right hand just lifts it up to her face looks at it and puts it back down again I think it’s got something to do with the right she’s one of those bracelets

does it they’ve all got a clown and I suppose there’s part of the comedy here is just five clowns together I think if you went through and just decided on the character you were gonna follow I could just date right so much the one where all is doing step aerobics and she’s overdoing it James just asks her a question she goes I have had it with you with your pet Kevin your Becca just because she’s a bit tired in so much suffer omics but is there a build-up to that throughout the whole series does he constantly ask questions because you see the thing is that he’s somebody asking moods or questions and a place where you do not ask questions that is not safe everybody’s trying to be very guards because everybody’s surveilling everybody and if you’re asking too many questions even if they’re genuine I guess why I get stressed I even people crash me all the tanks and make wudu you ask them the question honest genuine because you know I grew up in a place where you’re worried if people who ask lots a question so when I say are you doing is that what you care live in a bit different that’s just part of saying hello to me maybe it says it’s like he’s genuinely confused some flummoxed and he’s bewildered he’s walking around and this constant his body language just says I am a lost boy the whole time and they’re so confident in their identities and who they are and what they’re doing and what their role is in this dynamic and he just hasn’t got a clue yet interestingly when they’re shooting Jamie I’ve come back a bit again and the shooting James looking at them he’s standing just inside the doorway but when the threshold on the counter coverage he’s actually well past the doorway so they’ve obviously they moved in a little bit when they shot and then fantastic editing decision when the doors about to open you see this here you can see there’s almost like a doorway there yeah Sarah standing inside the corridor rather than eating the doorway that he was in there yeah but it’s probably significant that when he centers just his own shot he send a threshold space he’s not and he’s not right whereas if they would have put him in the doorway in this shot he’d be covering them up and so a bit of cheating there they have then edit to a short way we can then have that reveal of the door in the background opening we don’t even see system Michael and the site personal Claire was the key marketing wasn’t it this was in the very first trailer where you see this right first we have to stick together and then immediately she’s throwing everybody under the bus and exonerating herself it’s set up that she’s I am mad with hunger texting fishy hasn’t eaten since her breakfast she’s good man we need to a better timing here because that midway conversation ends at about 14 minutes 2018 when they’re summoned to office

sister Michael says or you might want to think about ways enough and she looks at her bracelet again and again goes to have a bit of all of this is Lisa McGee splitting yourself off into five different people this is Gabe because this is the first of the closer encounters with sister Michael and the girls and just a reminder James has included every time we say the girls he is one of the dairy girls and that is absolutely confirmed at the end of season two when he’s self identified as one of the dairy girls who’ve been introduced his sister Michael as her shelf and the assembly and who stays with just everyone but this is the start of a really special dynamic a special relationship she’s gonna build with this particular group of kids it will be a antagonistic relationship episode after episode of episode until something like the fifth episode of the second series I feel like antagonism is a but strong like I feel like she’s she’s the most common interlocutor it’s not like she’s an anniversary it’s not as strong as that she’s their foil almost in a way but then there’s a faction there too so garrus garrus garrus yes yes yes like I’m not necessarily that gates I’m a bell fashion I mean I should not be at open and airy access you know it’s not the colonial thing I’ll tell you what it is it’s because dairy so that we better work that as the lore goes dairy was a said eight when Belfast was still a bug I suppose be next to the sea I’m sorry the capital is the Industrial Revolution was not my fault that’s what made Belfast was all the factories that ended up there on the river lagan let’s make a nice project it just be a count of how many times one of the characters says Garrett’s because I think it’s a market I think that Erin says it quite a few times and Michelle says it quite a few times these McGee’s price and bio facets curves its market are all girls it’s a G you girls girls we see we fare ours say your owns as well you don’t say many other sounds but you do say your R’s in your own right you know if you get Londoner to say it would speak go girl let this thing go there’s just a girl pushing air out of your lungs why your mouth makes a weird shape man you know say your taser or any of it another’s clearly not the voice of a girl from Derry say no no I can’t verify how a girl who spent all of eleven years of her life in Derry she’s sounds like broad Belfast try and do dairy to me nice girl playing veena little tiny bows in her hair yeah quite cute brilliant yeah and this moment virtually happened to a positive pond where mr. myko says are you intimidated and she smiled and then she goes oh you’re serious no no I’m not in doing it either it’s quite fun because that’s the only time they see gonna make that face during this entire episode because the rest of time she goes see how this I don’t even know the axis name here she stirred so much with her mice yeah soon so many big ships of their mice and the expression and the sauce away she holds our Bali and chefs her head and stuff oh you’re being serious because that is how we do it’s way too much movement of head and face bodily way of speaking especially when you’re given sauce OS at night what do you get met it’s a full body but maybe why getting all these characters to become clown versions of their teenage selves is quite easy because the family’s quite physical okay and we’re in detention and is the end strength isn’t it when it’s something like 16 minutes and 59 seconds per James he’s going through something that’s just him being English I mean he’s Irish cast like who’s been brought up in London he is London Irish but he’s a boy he I mean he’s basically the patriarchy not the pastry hurricane and it’s just this basic human needs to go to the toilet as be denied him you think of all the rights that are being denied we’ve already very early on in this episode has a jibe about abortion and in the last episode of this series Clare comes out she’s gay she has no rights she still has no rights none of these people have rights and 2019 hopefully by the end of October that will be different but as of right now when we are doing this screening and recording these people do not have rights women people who need abortions people who need that kind of health care people who happen to be interested in people who have similar things to them and their pants they’re not allowed to do stuff it’s just really interesting that this is flipped on its head so that scare quotes English colonial oppressor or the cipher for him the cipher for the patriarchy has this basic human need and right stripped away from him it’s a tiny little bit of pretend revenge a bit yeah but it’s misdirected because this is innocent child has done nothing wrong to anyone ever and I suppose if you’re gonna make a political statement with a piece of fiction then pushing it several layers down beneath the surface and making it just that there’s this vague sense of misdirected revenge yeah is I suppose quite an effective way of doing it I suppose it’s also there’s this white English dude who has gone from having everything to having basically nothing in this base of the day but actually that’s a normal scenario for all of the people that he’s suddenly surrounded by actually yeah we’re gonna find out in about three minutes that his mum’s gone back to England just left him she’s abandoned I mean this is a guy who’s just lost everything Nick he thought he was our temporarily or his mum was staying they’ve been ruled him in their skill but maybe he thought that was just temporary while they were there or they were all gonna stay and whatever yeah this is such a shock and that everybody’s so unfeeling about but it’s actually more okay if they’re just not capable of showing tre emotion I mean it’s interesting because the only person he ever mentions love in any way is Jerry who’s from the south because we’re in love and it’s even quite guarded and not quite sure it’s we love each other that’s a bit a year slightly terrified what he says because I think Mary is genuinely terrifying she is a proper austere man and of course starting off another focus because this film this film cinematic it’s quite a cinema episode I think I made up an Irish on the blackboard I’m gonna do this I’m not very advanced in my learning of Irish so I’m not gonna know what it said focus you put it on again okay so I can actually read it did you burn me a tiny bit burned you I think you just made an assumption that my memories better than the back says just burned yourself mentally you got to be metaphorical burns all over your body sexes quite see that one but let’s try if you got Gaelic characters on your its own any of these keypads if you just hold them dine you can get the special characters up you should have it on your sayings huh

not quite sure what’s this carlini but that means girls know if you just hold the ladder down I’m gonna try translate hey be quiet girls me if I see you see you or the next movement be silent you’re right I haven’t learnt this yet I am learned an Irish but I haven’t got this far yet I think that’s carlini which i think is girls don’t you know that queer girl come off as queer girls so when you put the whole phrase in that’s interesting so it could be be quiet girls but also possibly list with queer girls may be foreshadowing miss shows sister Declan on the blackboard with the blackboard a focus in the background and all this out-of-focus elements in the foreground as well it means that the only stuff that’s hidden from her and I’m hand-cranked bench okay I have a special place in my heart for hand-cranked pencil show because I spent most of my PhD in a room which was pencils only

gonna sharpen your pencils and I would I’d wear a pencil a month at least that was the only noise that occurred a part of significant source of sniffing because it was a temperature a little slightly wobbly shots was something that hits me again social Monica Jackson going I know my face is funny I am going to be in here and my origin something about comedy is that sometimes in order for a character to just be told by another character than being silly the other character just momentarily needs to just become not a clown people need to kind of flick back and forth between being clowns and being straight people so when Michelle says Christ Claire you’ve basically just skipped lunch class suddenly the sober person in the room but then in two minutes she’s gonna stop being so because she needs to do her clown thing of telling James to shut up again just like we had with James before we got social Monica Jackson looking off to the left even though she’s on the left of the frame that’s like air of everything being a little bit wrong because of course she’s about to say better Bend not be my diary that’s funny dude try and see what’s in it because Aaronson some sort of collage on the front let’s take a look at that and that was that was Monica Jackson saying that in turn I think without moving her teeth apart to do it make no sounds anywhere but up your nose I’m going to grab your fuse

you had a diary like that when you were not quite like that I did write in a diary but I didn’t like we got this thing happening in the foreground between Aaron and she’s not gonna just be the person in the background is that always always accent oh they’re always like she’s surgery and Finch emotions and failing the bell and crazy that’s typical shot for this series isn’t it again we’ve gone back shot with one character on their own everything except for them is out of focus on their own everything else never focused they’re on the wrong side of the screen and then looking into our screen space those four characteristics create something that’s a bit odd ball a bit powerful and it’s a bit teenager II everything is awkward nothing fits he has to

person and dairy saying what about my civil rights and the fact that her response doesn’t get in the corner it’s just corner and he has no choice but to go and do it yeah interesting the sister Michaels from the South but sister Declan there’s no it’s not a Catholic girls school staffed by people from Ireland it’s

Claire o’clock the phone which insisted that consent and I think it’s partly it’s the choreography that’s involved isn’t it you have to know exactly what everyone’s gonna be measurements need to be taken because that licking her face as well when the camera hits her that’s a she’s like sandwich and it’s quite good too messy that I camera hit somebody by rocking focus to them because suddenly they turn from big something that’s not a person into being a person yeah so just being wrenched into personhood like that it’s quite a violent action I just have to write down the exact time at which it becomes a brother/sister Declan has indeed died so it’s at about 1858 that’s about the five six mark I think it’s really building to a climax and so that of course has to involve music short durations reducing so edits become more frequent which creates is higher rhythm of punctuation and most people moving around as well but with social Monica Jackson being the one person who’s not moving it’s yet again an indication that Aaron is the most normal of the characters in this in the protagonist has to be just about the most normal even if she’s kooky in a million ways as well I think all is the end of character to whom they could have given the job of Aaron’s halfway out the window and she’s looking back into the room she can see James’s penis journey solving it she’s not actually looking at much as we generally practice causing it such ways to make sure that no one can see that Louise the Harland turns the focus rack it is so funny because Chauhan miccine it’s just the least restrained person and really just not religious and she’s very sweary and she’s an activist assessor Eiko she’s just straddles the line between being totally straight-laced but also totally badass at the same time mm-hmm and that’s just Foley sound isn’t it does have something in there is some sort of shaved and liquids situation happening over there and the SFX when you do like a special effect that such a in camera but yeah we’ve got the Foley signed the proximity is right up against it really isn’t it off the sign point of audition right there it’s right at the pen that he’s pissing into amplified Isis a day’s worth so matter

they look like they’re squeezed under about four chairs I just love that we have parents because the constants in Sasuke’s Harlan Oh nail quite similar who plays Erin’s mum Mary she has quite an expressive face as well and she can do quick funny things so that and she has played quite a lot of straight characters she knows she’s done a lot of drama work and some comedy work as well but even in the comedies it’s quite a straight up character type thing he’ll say funny things whereas Mary should just let loose as Mary and so she’s the first one coming in of the parent group and it’s the face it’s the Goffin it’s the eyes it’s the judgment from her face they’re getting burned with this judgment from her face as she walks in drives at about 19 reintroducing conflicts that we left off at the three minute 55 second mark that we left off about about one-sixth of the way yeah it might be a nice opportunity actually while it’s still on Mary and her look because she’s got quite annuities look I think do you know that drag of one decade into the next yeah it’s got a sort of a tease cuz there’s got this quite chunky straight jacket on big quite loose clothes big then this jumper with massive flowers big roses on it and her hair that’s as if it’s not quite a permit or it’s like one of those half perms but it’s still quite oh no she’s somebody who probably uses rulers Bochy as in their an episode where you do see her and the rollers isn’t there gonna tell you what you yeah it’s just somebody who does the rollers and her hair she keeps her hair quite short and tight and very blond but yeah there’s just some Sun about her because I remember being quite young in the early 90s and I was so a lot of women dress and like that from that drag from the ear days yeah I was gonna say she looks quite nineties but nasty she looks quite dainty I like Sarah and contrast beside her she’s got a choker on what’s just very 9 days those were around a lot and then int she’s got the hoop earrings got her hair in and off done things really tight really tight rows isn’t that quite heavy me yeah whereas Mary’s hair is quite old-fashioned in a way because she’s got a kept back but the tight curls Sarah’s got this thing going on where she’s got quite a long fetid coat it looks like quite the fed’s green vest jacket and a pair tech genus on so she’s quite trendy for the mid nineties so there’s this contrast between the choice esters mismatched sister comedy very strong stuff Jenny older and younger and then you with Jerry who’s working man he’s a wee bit tiny bit disheveled but not unkempt he’s Tigers he’s been driving all day he’s been driving all day he’s been getting her around all day

years it’s got a tired like he’s got wizened hair there’s hair there but it’s whis and he’s got facial hair he hasn’t shaved for a few days cuz he had some time he doesn’t have the self-worth he’s got he’s got a shirt with the top on button it’s a blue shirt as well blue collar worker open jacket normal choices he’s just no reckon guy very harangues doesn’t need this right now I’m grandpa Joe’s bringing up the rear here I can quite something he’s got the wee baby as well he’s going on some bull shot the previous-generation just rocks up yeah fills the entire framing goes what are you doing Geor this would be my dream would be the spend off or it’s them in the seventies to start a 70 last generations the girl feeds that’s an excessive amount of crosses on sister Michaels desk isn’t it like some red everywhere no just crosses the crucifix that distinction between across yeah and of course this is sister Michael who in a later episode in response to one of the school kids saying should we pray for her is Michelle’s mother and her nurse’s uniform yeah was it Reese’s uniform somebody at some point in every combat uniform I think it is actually specifically with that really prim hair thing on somebody at some point has to say the phrase it’s Health and Safety gone mad about something which is complete just making you not be blown up that’s it sister Michael just sits and spectator on the world and that’s the first indication that that’s how sister Michaels gonna rock isn’t it so she’s got this extremely busy shop masses of stuff on the desk in front of her but in spite of all of this Catholic regalia she’s singing behind it just going

not actually gonna stand up for next people’s thing people have just given her this stuff over the years great bow Barry globe I’d want to know what’s on the other side of this there’s a picture frame Harris well given the other pictures we can see the room it’s probably Jesus and my paper Oh Marion it’s the only one that’s facing to her that be never Shea and that is I think about the fifth Northern Irish ISM of the episode isn’t it it’s dry right and we’re gonna hear that about five or six times it is about what should anyone would be on I didn’t know that crew and this I think you told me get to meet class dad this is Claire’s dad I yeah okay robust unless the thing you can’t he’s actually I don’t know who some of these people are like there’s some quite big people that I recognize really a lot I think there’s a lot of people here who do a lot of theater I don’t know them but like he’s just comment and they say well you’ve so in the show for a minute if someone’s at right you have to go onstage go in from the camera and deliver the two lines sure the we robots do all the back and work and then just turn to your right and go so killing nuns now is it even though we got a lot of James confronting this world which will refuse to interact with him and which is just impenetrably incomprehensible we do also have Aaron in the same situation as well because she’s saying look can everyone please just realize what just happened was wasn’t and then we just have everyone consenting to someone going yes that was an early death he hadn’t had a good just on the stay there in these jobs till they literally died and then is the basic commentary that the whole series is making is yeah if you’re a nun you will die on the job specific Pope Herbie ever nearly 98 years of age she knows that she’s got a hilarious face mm-hmm that Pope I don’t think that’s the current Pope at the time because it was Pope John Paul the second at the time because he was put free edges his books who ate most of my early life I think there was a list of popes six century 7 there’s been a good couple on Judaism 12 7 there we go okay John Paul’s predecessor was John Paul the first it’s like a pin to this nut it’s not really a photo that looks like plants the 11th it was poked between 1922 and 1939 wonder how old this school is what was it called again then immaculate like it was already immaculate maybe they’re referring to maybe that’s a Victorian school building that in this fictional world that were in he was the first sovereign of Vatican City from its creation as an independent state on the 11th of February 1929 mm-hmm seven years through his pontificate because I thought actually I mean I was wrong about thinking but it was a much earlier Pope because I thought it was actually the one who was Pope before the first world war who was leo xiii so not quite that early the one who was Pope between 1878 and 1903 but still this is a pre Second Vatican Council Pope significant then they just want to make it look like it’s a really dusty old school and actually she’s probably inherited a lot of this stuff that’s on that task having fun lit candles is quite significant now of course the hospital aren’t saying it was a failure but this is one of those suspension just belief things about fiction is that things happen a lot faster fictional worlds than they do and again we’re back to where we started which is teenager going what do you need investigation for an idea here a woman died of natural causes what more DNA’s few watch James is iced by Laura’s bacon and the slow emergence of realization and everybody’s face or just making for an errand stuff out loud so there’s a girl is Lisa McGee takin a piss out of herself did she maybe write something like that when she was a teenager but they’re right early girls right early people of that time they thought of themselves that way cuz I tried it when I first saw this I tried

its edges and because actually the time that you spent with these young people they have but they haven’t got clear what is really going on because they think they’re so hard done back and all teenagers think they’re hard done by all teenagers think that life is awful they’re so oppressed everything’s hard work whereas actually I mean they’re our kids our age actually plumb bombs and actually are insurgents and the combatants and the conflict and they’re actually privileged enough or sheltered enough all around a later episode when there’s an orange March going past my house she just say she thinks it’s cracker yeah it’s great interaction or Allah sort of embraces that it’s the performative nature of it she’s somebody who likes performance and dance and structure and dressing up and being a bit unusual in society and it is when you think about it people in bowler hats and orange sashes it’s not really that far removed from a disco dancing costumer do you know what I mean like there’s something very performative by even the way we dress we’re seconds away from me we’re just gonna end the episode in the middle of a sentence moment did you notice that credits goodbye so fast we’re gonna do this we’ve got the five girls including James I’ll just go back so we don’t miss anything hmm all right so far girls fine but it’s the next one that got me so there’s my Mary I’m Sarah sister Michael dad’s Harry Grandpa Joe they’ve got the West’s per meter the name Mecca honey that’s my baby Anna Hopi Tina there’s Danis David Donley retaining soldier Johnny Joyce Jenny’s an interesting character AXI there’s Ashley I think that’s Jenny’s friend yes yeah there’s all these other characters who do really interesting work they’re smaller characters but yeah it wouldn’t be complete without them really sister Jacqueline dear Djem allen and sean devlin so sean devlin played by David Ireland so kudos to him for be able to deliver that line Oh killing nuns now is it a is it dragging up yeah Mullen is Michelle’s surname did I can’t remember I was James’s our new Miss it different McGuire that’s quite an Irish name and then winter hmm anybody in the crew you Anna they have Armorer’s cause they have armor is business guns drawn filming some effects so there’s some VFX sir maybe that’s the Derry girls you know the gable wall peered thing that yes Papa CG and the probably had the CG things I’d actually maybe buildings and the distance that weren’t there at the time if maybe had to just paint them out there we should load of people from now then I would scream – quite a few exact producers it’s a loser McGee also being one of the exec producers presumably because she’s part of the production company they said what to make it I know there was somebody called Michael annex I’ve been getting that wrong I feel like there was a Michael Michael annex on my loose a makeover but there’s loads of people called my colonic so it’s probably not the specific London and I did vaguely remember born and raised in County Antrim made his first short film in 2008 2010 made his TV debut with the 30 minute drama called Eclipse which is an episode for the eighth season of the British TV series coming up then he got an went into the MA in fiction directing at the National Film and Television School in Beaconsfield which one screaming this part of the bafta NF TS stars of tomorrow event collaborated on a feature film hives directed the short film Boogaloo and Graham in 2014 he’s working on his debut feature film a patch of fog and of course interesting this just lists films his Wikipedia entry buddies doesn’t mention their egos at all the same Michael AMEX it’s the microloan extant no and they’re sorry girl sir yes we see if you got Michael Alex just takes you to the wrong name gets Wikipedia after all there’s some great people contribute to Wikipedia but things aren’t always the right thing it’s not always the right thing and IMDB either these aren’t exact Sciences for casting crew Michael and there’s much up with this one Wikipedia I haven’t watched all these people do hey I’m a 15 year old kid you then look at the mug shots it was applied for everything these are people who are clearly mid-twenties the ones for Louisa Harland she looks like she’s 30 and that one and probably is so do you feel like you’ve got enough for your diagram oh I’ve got enough for 10 diagram small problem though is that I need to make the diagram be a bit wrong yes so you need a proper version and a fake version yes and the hope that your students will be cunning enough to figure it right save that and save a different version which I’ll break man feck shut up how long does it take to [ __ ] up a thankin diagram no I mean even just your pencil on paper version is pretty extensive it’s very heavy at the start especially it piles in it settles into its troy acceleration yeah there’s so much establish and work goes on and it’s been really fascinating to pick it apart and really look at the details I mean it’s something we can do with film a lot and do we necessarily do this with television shows a lot maybe to actually what am I saying I am sure televisions do this all the time but I do know how cozy does anybody ever go into this sort of detail on any face yeah whenever I do really close analysis of films when I do counting short durations it does tend to attract mild but always affectionate is Gordon just you know why

he wasn’t just some mathematician I think it’s brilliant to introduce up to students Vic they’re these ways of looking at culture products and then there are these quick scientific mathematical ways of looking at cultural products and these can work together and that’s so exciting yeah we can apply science to what we do and that’s really cool weird being in with the precise you measure something being able to answer something with a precise amount that’s not to be sniffed at I want to say as well because comedy I think is really undervalued and I think so many people don’t realize how much work goes into comedy like to make something properly funny it’s a surgical precision and tremendous trial and error and getting the right people it’s huge amounts of work because it’s the writing in the first place but then it’s also the actors that you hire and to trust them to do what they can do I mean we don’t know how much direction there was for the small things that we were picking up but we’re not in focus and that most people watching these things will not notice them the stuff with Ford is sweet breath but how many people are gonna have tweaked on that she was doing those really subtle nathan’s and that those in those little interactions and those you can see the internal monologue going on that’s all really wanna better not have a sweetie you can see you’re thinking it through and that’s just one of five main people and that’s not all of the people like as we mentioned the bet parts you would say but they’re more significant than that because it’s people’s parents coming in and they are very occasional characters but those actors do so much with those characters when they’re there when they’re on the screen because I think we see Claire’s dad again in season two we definitely see deer jig in Michelle’s mum and Aaron and orders from the unit or the central unit but you’re gonna see a lot more extended characters you’re gonna see me a verse there’s gonna be familiar from the chepe there’s gonna be really well-rounded characters here on the in it for one episode ever I’m naming you got the ongoing joke of all the nuns have male names but then there’s the joke of a lot of the characters of the keep coming up against have pantomime eclis Irish names even though they’re Northern Irish they’re essentially indistinguishable from citizens the Republic and vanilla from the chippy is a prime example of that very common name it is spelt it depends there’s different ways the way I know is Fi oMG it’s a half of those letters are unneeded so but that’s the problem with anglicisation because they have use they have inflections because learning the bed of Irish 9 I’m learning that but yeah there are a lot of letters that are drops there’s a word it’s about Miss but you say ma if it’s confusing and but it has meaning in the written language biggest Fonua right if I n ula and that’s why there are people whose name you have names like Brunner where letters have dropped out of it I suppose we can hardly talk because Owen has been anglicize we still keep a lot of GH Spelling’s on words where we don’t know

because that would have been plus all those gh gh Spelling’s corresponding to a at least in pronunciation which is why some know it’s useful exercise and we’ll see how your students get on with it

you’re giving them options for how to approach studying cultural products that’s really important you’ve been listening to audio-visual cultures with special guests co-hosts and reseal this episode with hosted recorded edited and produced by Paula Blair the music is common grind by air tone licensed under a Creative Commons non-commercial 3.0 license and is available for download on ccmixter org if you like what we do please help us make production and distribution costs with a regular payment to libera PACOM /pe ie Blair or one-off donations to pay pal Donny /p EA Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday please rate share and subscribe on your chosen platform to help others find the show visit audio-visual culture store or follow av cultures pods on instagram uh Navy cultures on Twitter and Facebook for more information and useful links thanks so much for listening and catch you next time you


Audiovisual Cultures episode 54a – Derry Girls episode 1 analysis part 1 with Dr Andrew Shail automated transcript

please support our Patreon to help us provide accurate transcripts

all right so a diagram which goes okay we meet Aaron and their cousin what’s cousin’s name and then the first person they meet is Claire and then it’s Michelle and Jamie James you’re thinking about Lander you’re thinking of men and hello and welcome to audio-visual cultures support cast that explores different areas of cultural production I’m the host and creator polo player this is the first of a two parter in which and Rochelle and I take an in-depth look at Episode one of Derry girls way back in episode 8 of the podcast we discussed series 1 of Derry girls alongside another of Lisa McKay’s channel 4 comedy series London Irish for teaching on a new module on critical practices Andrew wanted to MA fight the narrative beats of an establishing episode of a sitcom so we recorded the process it took around three hours across two sessions which I’ve edited down to two hopefully digestible podcasts massive thanks to our members on forward slash a V cultures for your continued support it’s so much appreciated for details on ways to support the podcast and how to get in touch listen right to the end for now enjoy the discussion as we pointed out in our first Aragon that what we basically get by the time they’re on that bus is actually no it’s some that is outside school and I said the bus stop the bus stop is the second location the first location is the shop isn’t it have again sweets good of the shop before the bus because it’s just clearing air in them all right then that’s the bus stop and that’s the jet point so that’s the we shop so road and we shop so house very sharp bus stop checkpoint bus at the school mostly systematical stressy conversation 60 Michael’s office again which is the confrontation with Tina you think okay then the beginning of detention which ends with the sister death and dying and doing where than that there okay we’ll fill it out sister Michael becomes a good guy okay so what exactly is it the narrative beat sure cannot mmm-hmm what by establishing information yeah we didn’t did we so yeah we have to establish to be all that Aaron stuff just because he the very first thing you say is the army land rover and this aerial drone shot which is interesting because this is the 1990s so they’re using this drone that’s not yeah used for these purposes and you’re you’re in the outskirts and it rises overlooking City of Derry but you’ve also got and the shot missed punch alerts graffiti a night the London on the Londonderry and just hit pause on this shot we’re looking east from the western side of the river that’s the old city on the western side which means that this is the area affectionately known as the Bogside of course pointing is really great for podcast listeners here this bit rough foreground of the shot the other side this field okay so yeah I’m gonna actually get their stuff dumped in the field site because you don’t really actually need to be able to pause to do this sort of thing Susi’s it’s hard to say because they’re in the distance and it’s quite a wide shot but they’re like tarpaulins or sheets or something I mean there could be bodies and those and this is kind of dumping grind that you would get things like this you just get this debris of a conflict or something going on so it’s interesting actually pause and look at all of this before any of my arcs to do with characters we have to stick in it’s not London yeah also the song that’s being played it’s The Cranberries yeah it’s very noticeable we need to double check the title of this song I always forget but this song is if you’re not a fan of The Cranberries but if you’ve ever seen adverts by the Irish tourist boards this is one of the millions songs they will use oh yes you’re right yeah so it’s notable that that’s the song yeah and it’s quite an uplifting song yes it’s positive note song it’s pretty compact rate at the time and it says this is going to be about Northern Ireland because you’ve got associations of The Cranberries because of some base which is used very interestingly and now Shane basen yes comedy series Oh blimey that was amazing zine so we’re looking back through this telescope of history from here but anyway yet opening narration which turns out not to be opening narration lovely races of aremy land rover over three looks like teenage boys

very walls army and the walls chuckle ER new roles in the West

cranberry poster Angela Lansbury’s Murder She Wrote Aaron waking up Sara cousin Orla reading her diary

alright so it’s the roughly 50 so within a minute so you’ve got this traveling establisher it’s zooming in it’s owning in on this one house where this family lives and they’re the central family traveling establishing montage with roughly 53 difficultto using Netflix exactly when now is but seems to be about if you include the channel for a logo but it is pretty quick cuz out of almost 22 minutes one minute ed establishes location roughly the time period because they were maize occupying City of Derry I think because of the poster on the wall of the cranberries you can set you ate it at the early 90s fish Murder She Wrote still on the TV pretty regularly everybody’s Marcus’s yesyes building personality of this teenage girl’s bedroom very quickly through the posters lining the walls dressy [ __ ] pajamas mmm-hmm that tells you something about glass status just osya and possibly something to do with not super wealthy but not her either total cars at about the one minute moment coming on as if it said gable wall graffiti murals alright so that they were roughly 107 ish mark that’s when the family dynamic opening and it’s already character saying Aaron and or Allah because Allah is on the screen right now and medium close-up would you say licking a spoon tonight taking a really big spoon already looking like a space cadet not caring about the world around it yeah she’s been caught on reading her cousins diary she said like Burroughs what we’d say back at that time where I grew up in Belfast and Aaron it’s it’s a very clear she’s got aspirations of being a Raider she’s interested in certain areas of culture which she thinks they’re probably very sophisticated so you’re already getting these markers of their personal holiday is so roughly the same age also with aura here in the screen you’ve got the bay a bay and out of focus background doesn’t feature much in the series other than to just be a thing which Erin’s parents carry or Evan preoccupied with yeah and something for the grandfather’s day but yeah it’s something probably to do with this even your generation because these teenagers have known the conflict their whole lives by the time that baby is aware of things she’s gonna be part of that first group of kids who are growing up properly in peacetime because this is roughly 1994 and by the time she’s aware of stuff going on it’s gonna be post agreement yeah so it might be that the baby’s there as standing for what each of these actors and actresses the age they would actually have been mm-hmm at this point if they had been alive at all some of them are my age nearly right people yeah so they’re actually probably feely playing people who are a little bit older than them at the time because I was a boy so 1994 I turned 10 at the end of that year so I was at the end of primary school so I was a few years younger than them but they’re about 15 16 here this is a GCSE a year mother I’m you this where was that cousin drop or Allah says what’s the Paran occurs between cousins so it establishes they’re not sisters or cousins but they live together she says sure what’s para dick is between cousins at roughly the one minute 17 mark yeah family dynamics we’ve got it open a night to Aaron’s parents it’s me care very quickly or does our niece marries a matriarch because Aaron goes there mother there are lots of these little inserts there’s a little shop of the baby he just wants a meeting with a gleeful look on her face looking at the person behind the camera operator the baby’s own parent but establishing the keys there she’s part of this too even though she’s not communicating and think about detailed set dressing they’d be sitting on a baby chair that’s clearly the one used for all those years picked up and fixed there’s this toy in the program which is the toy we all had when we were kids this is no plastic that you put on some plastic so you’ve got cultural reference within two minutes as well so this is a time when Macaulay Culkin’s regularly in the news and he’s so very young and this idea of children’s rights becoming a thing and the parents gone must believe you absolutely nonsense so that’s how I recent desiiva knows there’s a parents for whom the order of rights it means civilized isn’t it yeah they’re fighting just to be equal in the whole of society yeah never mind they’re teenagers yes rights for the adults it’s not rights for the kids at this point okay so the family dynamics being oddly insulated from the outside world that’s the thing about this scene isn’t it particularly in what’s about to happen when the bombs again so we’ve got no stablish or about Marion Jerry’s relationship she’s very much in control she’s very much a voice of power in this house Jerry hasn’t really had a word and yet he’s played by tommy Tiernan he looks quite harangues and he’s very much a part of a loving family but he is the receiver of a lot of stuff he doesn’t get to transmit very often so a say so we haven’t really heard him speak yet and that’s important as well as his accent is gonna be important we first watch this I know for you it felt a little bit like being at home again and I see a little bit because yeah but for me it was like okay I’m really quite significantly having to recalibrate here because I can understand them but it just takes going fast a bit of an effort this is this and more like this vid I we talk at home yeah so it just takes you a minute Macaulay Culkin is the first time they met we’re gonna get this format of joke again in about five minutes where Claire’s raising money for a wee African fella and everyone gets it kind of confused and they think that he’s from Bali Buffet but also this is an important establish sure that this is a Catholic family so we’ve heard the Bogside established that they’re on the west bank that they’re a Catholic from like you’re getting a lot of those Ulster colloquialisms as Isles so they’re Shane Williams rather than children which is more of an Ulster Scots saying actually and they do have top skirts on it this Catholic school yeah but no Tartans exist well outside Scotland yeah but it’s a Celtic thing yeah come back just a few seconds see their skirts are quite short a lot of the Catholics goes back home we’d have had very long skirts this silly fun thing of fine I won’t see Macaulay Culkin the comedy that comes over just a mother an adult not understand and a cultural reference Aaron pretending that it’s some sort of nestle that she can’t physically see Macaulay but yeah it’s easier to do that than explain this is where we learned that it’s the end of summer there’s listening they can’t get to school it’s this oscillation between family dynamics really particular family dynamics and stuff that’s specific to pre-agreement trouble zero mrs. Peyser I mean it’s hard to tell which year is at ninety three years at ninety four it blurs the time a little bit but it is pre ceasefire so which would say it’s 93 but some of the cultural references such it and ninety four so it’s quite blurred and you know memory is quite a blurry thing so that’s okay but yeah it’s interesting here because this is actually kind of how it was was that it was a inconvenience or something like this happen and whereas it’s not like what’s going on you know like conflicts and violent acts become so normalized that it’s both this is inconvenient my day because you’ll get Aunt Sarah coming in in a minute mounish can’t go and get her fake town done because of this bomb on the bridge and of course this is we should know the name of this bridge if written about it so many times but it’s a specific bridge you’re talking about which is quite well known and it’s featured in quite a lot of artwork actually because well what’s the bridge it’s both a connector and a divider and you put a bomb on something that’s supposed to connect it becomes a division it becomes something you can’t access the other side of anymore so it’s about the inconvenience it’s about race the first day back to school and they come it doesn’t immobilize them but it just means they Rick it’s gonna be different and then you get this you just clicked ahead to the shot of the television screen and we’ve got real archive footage this is gonna punctuate the whole series as well as there is gonna be the reality of this because this is very much a comedy and it’s fiction but it’s bedded into something that’s very very real and really did happen every time we pause on these little inserts we’ve got set dressing amazingness so this is not just a television that was posed don’t really pay attention to for a couple minutes it’s really period it’s got that bulging cathode ray tube screen this is a television for me it is you know this is an old-fashioned push buttons for the channels and of course only the first four of them are actually ever used yeah and they’re all or night and you can see them they’re worn out five six seven er still clear and one two three four one especially is really worn so this is a real prop they’ve got and then on top of it you got a tiny little figurine of a monk and some other glass yeah you say it’s fairly crass and if you look at some of their decor as well because I remember sharing this quite a lot where you’ve got a border in the middle of the wall and the wallpaper so you’ve got the stripes at the bottom vertical stripes you’ve got a border and then you’ve got the top but it’ll be something else it’s quite ornate and it’s the idea of working-class people trying to look a bit more grand than they are because we had that in our houses you know when I was growing up we had that sort of thing for a while as pedestrian you’ve got things that don’t match curtains are quite awful and don’t match anything and you just see this quite fiddly and it’s quite quick but this is an old house it’s been lived in for a long this is all decor and furnishings from a long time ago this is old in the 90s type stuff sister lived in hi there we gonna get the Grampa Joe conflict setup Joe and Jerry finally here Jerry’s baked here today southern the yes silly ater amongst this group of highly fraught people and also the kind of malcolm in the middle’ figure the one who’s the most same and there’s later episodes where even he becomes a figure of fun but at the moment he’s the same one we’re about to hear grandpa jokes a wouldn’t you leave my daughter alone and he goes because we’ve been married but essentially so Tommy turns from this ice Terrell and O’Neal and Ian McElhinney who’s bang her father they’re both from Belfast they’re supposed to be from Derry and it’s interesting because the ideas that they’re all in this together they would all want a united Ireland but there’s just animosity in put your house for Jerry I think just because he’s married as daughter you know there’s not a brother so he’s an insider and an outsider at the same time he isn’t one of them because this is the thing about identity over there is the choice and the north are different whether you’re an Irish Catholic a nationalist but from the north you’re different from the southerners you different from people from the Republic or in the Free State as would say where I grew up yeah it reminds me of a thing which is quite common in the east coast of Canada is really common for people in both Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to regard themselves as Scottish hmm as distinct from people who are from New England in the States who regard themselves as quite Irish and this whole we’re really Scottish we do Scottish this thing means they’re a Scottish cultural festivals in these mountain provinces in eastern Canada and if Scott’s go there they find those I was baffled about the type of Scottish mnestheus Canadians are regarding themselves as being linked with because it’s completely foreign to them so this this urge to link up is nice to link up with a fantasy of what you think there but this is actually an island that the spread apart and at this point let’s say less and about 75 years before yeah so this is an interesting difference they share an island they a very small line and onion there’s just cultural divergence this happens within the 20th century it’s just you’ve gotten so much loaded information and one screen with just the shot we’re looking at at the moment I mean actually there’s really interesting details because there’s Canada in the background isn’t it is that John F Kennedy were talking your Nasus seem so yeah their family has Irish heritage so that’s quite an Shin that such it’s and politically in a very interesting place is that Jesus or who’s that one that looks like a spaceman Jesus it does let’s go it’s about shine and of course the the mandatory starburst so Bay’s yeah you’ve got yeah all this study furnishings you’ve got the baby stuff strewn around you’ve got quite neat things old furniture jewels very better than in his seat that’s specifically his fate of his rocking chair it’s got us blankets on us that’s his area of the house and so there’s quite a lot already gone on there so before we get to Sarah this animosity between Joe and Jerry playing

there’s all these little opportunities to put local quail isms and so there’s Harry saying because we love each other and then I thought echoes of a very good book you know what you gain is an Ulster Scots word and it means vomit yeah and then you get Sarah coming in who is Euler’s mother and that’s established and this tiny exchange again their personalities are very clear the daughters of space cadet Sarah the mum is we got it frozen on the bit where she’s just taken all his breakfast from her thinking that all I was giving her her breakfast but no it was just that all it was holding him in such weather it looked like an awareness obscured by a wall but you can just a bite sear going right stick with food and food is very important or Allah as we will find out throughout the series but Sarah is you know she’s got full makeup on she’s got her hair and like a massive top bun he’s got it in rows as well yeah and she’s not yet dressed so she’s not dresses in her nightie and her dress and going which like again crass fancy I’m gonna coin that class she’s got her red nails done to perfection you know so there’s details in this it’s very clear that she’s a lady a pleasure she’s not normally up early in the morning and of course it’s not yet been stated why it is that she and her daughter or living with her sister I don’t think that’s ever establish is it it just seems to be that’s what share this house yeah so this shades of people being crammed into tenements designed only for one family but only shades of it because there’s no indication of all I ever having had a dad yes I mean like Sarah just reproduced spontaneously and created all it and that’s why she’s a spacer yeah it’s never gonna into but I mean as we’re going to find with James there’s a Yeshe around abortion being illegal and criminalized there’s every possibility that Sarah’s got pregnant quite young she might not even know who the father is something’s happened it could be any kind of thing you could let your mind wander and imagine various no it’s B yeah it’s just something underpinning I think in this episode about the lack of access to appropriate health care in certain scenarios if there’s crisis fragments a it could be the sort of thing really all have grown up together they’ve all lived in this house together because it was probably the safest thing to say so you’ve got little inserts as well of politician it’s responding to the bomb and importantly you’ve got John him MP on the screen and John Hume see he was Scop I think I mean he was one of the key figures in the peace process so that’s quite a significant little insert there of actual footage of him responding to an incident yeah and it states that he’s the SDLP leader Dean O’Banion I really do think for a while social moniker Jackson was really struggling to put on a daring accident because it just looks like she’s fighting the words the way she moves her mouth but of course what she’s doing is she’s just exaggerating some of the oddities of it and also she knows that she’s funny face and therefore really going for it with how much she moves her mouth when she talks makes it generally quite funny so and the bid y’all ready I mean that would kill anyone just to say that would holiday situation these are there but also she’s going through the motions of her mom’s quite scary Mary you’re quite scary lady and she’s having a good are we rebellions because she’s a good girl you know she’s not a bad girl Aaron’s not a bad girl and so I’m gonna go with a little push back against the man the man being sister Michael and her mother yes this is very much a matriarchal set up we’ve got here interesting the the men are all quite wishy-washy it’s right the whole series that we’ve seen so far that’s the women runnin the place best expressed through James’s looking around at the school and realizes that it’s an all-girls school but he’s somehow been permitted to attend that would that look of batter Battlement on his face Jerry pass no it’s been that’s quite scary because this is of course again a time when it is not illegal to hate your children and it’s just this hint of threat whether Mary actually smacked Aaron with the wooden spoon because my mother was like this is oil or we were growing up it was just the look that she would give you underway she would say some fun that was enough about 355 we get to meet play at the road Weidman her denim jacket to express her her individuality individuality individuality so so far we’ve got two of two three so far at thirties blonde quite good girl and Claire’s got her blazer on unnoticed and was thanks to space Claire was her name Nicola Coughlin okay she’s my thank you tonight sir she’s quite a physically compact person tiny she’s hardly stretched she’s got wide right meaning that you know sticker a blazer and then a jockey so one of those wide plastic headband so we a lot of us used to have her hair so it’s back in a ponytail she’s got quite a thick fringe or bangs you might say North America this headband that’s holding back some of her hair as well before here you’re seeing her and this is Anna’s aim so she’s in a medium shot but it’s Anna’s aim hence the impression that there’s virtually no you’ve got this flattened straight beyond her in the negative space now you got her jitter and around while she’s waiting because she can say er she’s nervous with this jacket on and that’s a bit of it with Aaron as well as I’m gonna do this and I’m determined and even though I’m terrified you know that this is what’s coming there in her voice and then you get the same thoughts being performed in Claire’s actions before they actually turn up and we’re gonna get the I’m expressing my individuality joke again aren’t we because Claire’s gonna say I’m not going to be individual and on my own yeah sure aren’t I there’s a kind of questions principle so how you respond to people in this cuz so just wanted to acknowledge that she’d understood that it was the first day of school we see it’s just the cadence of hi we speak because we do these reinforcers and we tend to ask a question that’s not expect now so so very often we’ll go okay her yeah and you’re not actually yeah not necessarily expect and it’s just part of the hello because we have to emphasize for hello and acknowledging that you’re in our presence and that’s why you’ll hear the habit of I did that swords because it’s actually more of a rhythm thing putting emphasis on some fun yeah it’s a tag I think is a linguistic term for it so about four sixteen we are into the we shop threaten the news agents and as packed full of the school kids you’ve got things like the miniature ticklers attention actually I’m gonna look at this side up of the show because we haven’t really stopped on this before it’s just rammed full of stuff and no particular order it’s really crap all plastic in see the syrups to go on the ice creams everything’s just right there’s no sneeze cover or anything it’s not very hygienic these we don’t pass hygiene saunders today it’s all the neon colored stickers and little bits of cards and starships stuck on thanks for prices it’s hot like bouncy balls juggling balls it’s like a pirate’s Cutlass okay fancy try stuff ii ugh and sizable tears a child and their secondary noses and the pic of max okay nothing gardener when I pick my girls up from school there’s a sweet shop directly opposite the school and like 200 kids pile into the sweet shop and to create a kind of queuing system and I don’t think kids necessarily need to have masses of sugar the instant they get out of school but such is our culture that the kids and sweets have this really tight relationship the first shot is with a player with her head bent over sweet very quickly within this level so we’ve moved on and we’re getting this expansion oh Claire as a character she’s seen this fast with you beer but she’s clearly already hungry but you get a sense of she wants to be socially aware she cares about because this is a time when on the TV all you would see was news items and quite intensive adverts about Commons and Ethiopia about natural disasters things we going on in a lot of different countries but the way it’s delivered here and the way people understand it here it’s Africa as a homogenous blob of space with dark people and a and especially where I grew up because we didn’t see anybody with dark skin for a very long time this is a very very white part of the world that we’re talking about so you only really saw dark skin on the television and I think a lot of people probably like Clara she would associate people dark skin as people who are suffering and in need of help and she’s very concerned very good-naturedly trying to do something about that and probably that are on on her life should realize that there’s something a bit more cynical about all this charity stuff but already you’re getting this kernel of this is someone who cares about people’s rights about people’s access to basic needs which is very important in developing her care because she turns out to be the we lesbian no just a lesbian just about cinematography how to focus elements make shots interesting yeah it’s a general principle with cinematography is try and keep as little of the shot in focus as possible I’ve had several moments when it’s over-the-shoulder stuff that we’ve got someone out of focus in the foreground we’ve had Erin out of focus before now we’ve got Claire out of focus as Erin’s about to say yet another one of Lisa McGee’s Northern Irish isms which you say to me about three times a day the way that social Monica Jackson acts she acts like somebody who’s just newly inhabited a fifteen year olds body which most fifteen year olds have they’ve only just newly inhabited this because this green up of the face this is part of how we communicate over there today looking does it really mean it’s just like wait I’ve cut yourself on you because the tone of voice comes so much from the top and the way screw your face you can see where you’ve paused that Chase squinting her eyes and her meit’s a bit pursed and so that’s skeptical face you know it’s what there’s a sort of turn of revulsion it’s very physical it’s a very physical way of communicating of speaking so much of this bacon comes from the gestures that you’re doing with not just your hands but your face and are you with Chuck your body and that sort of thing as well what got me is that she can’t make eye contact maybe she’s looking skeptical and she’s looking just breathing but look at the way her eyes are moving and that thing right at the end of that shirt which it kind of looks really uncomfortable and her body and lips down this this is somebody who’s really drawing on her own experience of being about 15 Danis from Genesis Asia a bit of a psychopath as a bit of comedy about Northern Ireland within the first six minutes it has stalked the dramatis personae with Psychopaths but you already have all of these adults who cannot cope with these teenagers because they’re melters the waves of talk get everything because they’re trying to be so grown-up and serious and I’ll catch yourself on you do know what you’re talking about none of them know we’re talking and there’s actually being fired a mature but she still you know in all their mates are probably thinking well maybe I should care about that stuff but I’m just seeing a jerk the intergenerational conflict bit of it it’s trying to get us all to go I remember when I felt the world did not understand me because I was a new type of human except that of course every other person my own age was also the same new type so we were bonding over the fact that we were the essentially rival species to our parents generation but they’re differently it’s really fascinating because every generation comes along and you go gee think I wasn’t Matias before but there’s been such tremendous cultural shifts between say the seventies in the 90s when the previous generation was very aged say 20 years before in the seven days the world has changed very much and actually the adults have been throughout our hell because they’ve been through the whole of the conflicts from an early age these kids have come along and they’re really just becoming aware of it as its they don’t know yet but it’s coming to an end but it’s established and it’s normal and it’s actually less chaotic it’s more organized night it’s had two decades of being chaotic it’s organized and it’s just everyday life and that’s the world I came into was that was just how things were which is very weird for me over here because there aren’t things like this happening all the time are not strange but also things are changing culturally and technologically so rapidly at this point when I was their age I had the earliest mobile phones that you could buy reasonably cheap mmm-hmm that’s how much that changed by the end of that decades by just a few years after that they don’t have mobile phones by the end of that decade I did have a mobile phone that’s the thing that really struck me when we first saw this was it constantly shouting its historical specificity and I suppose the main reason to do that is because it’s pre ceasefire and pre agreement it’s saying all this counts as the past that’s the watershed that the minds in the past in the present and in Causton are always making up when these words were but there’s a case to be made that that definitely counts as a water Aaron’s first crush Monica laughter at nothing Orla just like some mountain stuff so Aaron encounter with David Don Lane the boy she could has a crush on you get really well-established that Aaron has a complete to work whether she wants to be super cool but she’s not a cool person not that Murder She Wrote is not cool and Angela Lansbury obviously as the queen but David Donnelly he’s roughly there eh maybe a year or two older he’s clearly not school anymore he’s putting up a poster for his DJ stuff he’s kind of one of those dates who when you’re Aaron he is the King [ __ ] and actually when you’re arya joking laughs you go he’s a waster he’s a nobody who thinks he is something and he’s not really he’s just this slightly older lad creepily hanging around outside of a shop that children are shopping in they go disco and smoking and licking cool but really he’s gone nothing today anyway doesn’t even have a way of lighting the rolled up something that he’s smoking this probably just a normal cigarette designed to look like something that’s not a cigarette we’ve got the best interesting me in terms of directional continuity it kind of looks like right here they have just come out of that shot but actually this is like a mile away yeah I mean no to me it looks like no they’ve walked her a bit and they’ve got to this other location where the old old sir buses are yeah well these are the old ones I mean when grandiose addresses so you’ve got Claire and Aaron haven’t played a serious team Jerell conversation and or alert actin like crying yeah she’s flying like she’s sick a seven-year-old and the background and there will be a little bit later when she says that she just loves her little fingers yeah as if again like someone who’s just realised that she has fingers now you hear Michelle before you see her know that she’s just seen a Tarantino film so she’s f no blind and all over the place so we’ve got Jamie Neely O’Donnell I think it’s important that you hear her before you see her not says so much about her surely personality and it’s perfect that she doesn’t name the film what Ned of that film being something whose title she might remember completely yeah it’s just the film with awesome content though I’m sure you’ll all see so she says she’s got out of pirate Pauline when we watch this the first time when we’ve decided that it was probably pop fiction I’m collection came I I think quite late in 94 I mean if you’re gonna be specific about dates but it’s probably this is a film that’s I didn’t céntimos and somebody’s taped it and the cinema or something like that you know it’s one of these really nasty pirate copies or something and that she has that kind of relationship with her down or she’ll watch of the night violin and Michelle’s look she has a different look to the rest of them because I mean Oren has got quite curly hair but Michelle really treats her hair and brings the curls out she’s got that wet look she’s got the wet look yeah she’s got her up and sister way that’s cause she’s got massive hoop earrings she carries herself and a very she’s very physical in a way that she moves she dances towards them as if she’s body Poppins it’s like she’s pre-empting Beyonce no mercy oh she’s got that kind of attitude she’s very sure of herself so she got this member of the gang who is because you’ve got least read the works basically already well two dorks in the space cadet then you’ve got Michelle and it’s so hard to know why she even hangs over them because she always he think she’s cooler that maybe that’s she’s killer by association or maybe she is just like them but she’s acting this character this is her coin and we’re about to have the funniest line of the entire episode absolutely check who’s talking who owns that fellow so it’s quite distressed I do what I quite liked though is that there’s this mirroring in is such a common striking I remember one of the simplest piece of scholarship I ever read about a film was one that just pointed out that hey look if you just look at all the main characters in Braveheart you’ve got four father-son pairs and the entire film is about these father-son pairs where the mother is completely absent tell things clearly therefore about patrilineage in some way and as you like it again it’s about brothers lots and lots of conflict between brothers and as you like it and there it goes cousins yeah the two sets of cousins each harvest ray and stay now make and I suppose what’s happening right now is in this particular shop that we’re looking at where all is saying I see making that funny noise errand and they’re both looking oddly at James they’re having these two cousins who have conflict realizing that the differences between them are nothing compared to the difference between Michelle and James yeah and also their group of four is suddenly a five without warning so this group afford that it’s established for us is suddenly a five so you get to meet James is about 702 so we got 30 seconds of Michelle before we get James he’s just standing there in the background he’s in London she has a step back so that he can even like the way he’s so this is still in New Orleans and James we Dylan who tweeted gee I think he retweeted me one time so James is clutching his bike strap quite nervously I mean he’s signing up right Annie sucking around he takes Phegley bewildered but it’s the way his hands are clutching the backstrap are quite telling he’s quite scared I mean he’s got this ferocious cousin who’s overpowering him and it’s a together women overpowering the men yes I remember first listening to this going I think I may need to rewatch this bit because she doesn’t say my aunty Kathy she says Manta Kathy like it’s one word Monty Manta Kathy works yeah I know we wouldn’t words together it’s just the very particular way that she says it she barely says that I in my so it’s Manta command me aunty it’s like it’s a title for someone me aunty professor doctor me aunty anyway / James answered a traumatized by finding out that he was supposed to be an abortion yeah I suppose we’re gonna put that on the second bomb scape it’s not a bomb scare because there’s actually a bomb on the bridge even before that we’ve had know that she’s there and there’s guys feeding the sign and so the third one is people can’t get abortions here and have been able to in the rest of the United Kingdom since 1967 yeah so for over 20 years at this point yeah so and again it’s just a very normal thing as people are having to travel they sort out of crisis pregnancy mostly to London thinking about just order and James as their cousins and these are cousins who do not have fathers and become part of this extenders nuclear family and each of these households because James becomes abandoned there by his mother yeah we don’t even meet her until the second series and I lose Sarah lives in the same house as earlier Mary is practically or as mum because she’s the matriarch of that home and as base case even Sarah’s mother and their mother is dead the fact that Mary’s got all of ready for school rather than Sarah getting her own daughter although really cool that’s James the son will become a surrogate mother to him in spite of saying that when she looks at him she feels pure hatred alright so about 7 12 we get the abortion moment especially in this community that accent really does mean the oppressor it’s the voice of the soldiers getting on the bus there is a massive tension this is an example of where the character of James is probably more Irish and will have been brought up Catholic and would be more Irish than somebody like me who was born and brought up any spot fast in a unionist Protestant background and always considered to be British well at home and so he goes there and he see English colonial oppressor I come here and I’m made to feel Irish the identity tension that you’ve got here Our Lady immaculate college name is school maybe we should look that up adveniat regnum yeah that’s gonna be a joke nice card of on the crest adveniat regnum to may your kingdom come thy will be done so yeah it’s just a line from the Latin version of the Lord’s Prayer Second Vatican Council 90 there’s much we’ll get into the Second Vatican Council I don’t know what that piece of music called but it’s used in pop fiction again these popular culture connections yes music selections that people appear to be sweating the popular music after time it’s soaked into the area around them and love it is film references to you that’s important because movie references film culture is so embedded over there it’s so hard to explain but it’s a highly referential culture a big public party because it’s never really had much of its own industry in creating films so everything’s imported mostly from America it’s a very sunny literate place because even people who wouldn’t really read and stuff they might be really into movies during the conflict especially I mean a lot of the cinemas got bombed and fired and you arson attacks and stuff but there were probably more sentiments per capita their pre troubles then you know there’s maybe a higher concentration and elsewhere in the UK I think don’t be something that they can’t aim to probe a little bit yeah it’s highly sunny lettera people would have nearly whole conversations just reference and films or quoting from films and stuff but interesting here at the same time as that means it’s been played and they’re walking through to boss their head and words back Michels hand like the EF on and this is Benton a style set Castle is somebody who is your EF on their date here have one representative you get to be catalog here a Doge order you could back to the Yvonne Leone and then eventually the next time you say we shall have your stuff for you and Michelle is an agent for the Yvonne so she’s got these sidelines as a bit like midnight nurse both because everybody else is just going to school she’s working she’s hustling already and we’re about to get a bit of fantastic visual comedy fingers are funny fingers are just so many funny things falling over and people doing odd things with their fingers that show that these are not very good for what we use them for

wiggling her own finger at her top lip just gotta get a time here so we very quickly there Michelle has a confrontation with a brand new first year whose sister is described as big Monday from upper six it’s old years of school years that I can understand not these newfangled years he’s knowing that don’t understand and you know they think because their first years well Michelle things because they’re fifty years they could just make the wee one smooth she’s all nice and no trousers so you’re establishing that you’re establish and that Erin and Claire do not approve of any of these actions because of the close up insects of them and Erin is really pressed up against Michelle neo sank retreat retreat where they would have needed to have shot at about seven times to get all the coverage because you can’t stick all the cameras in and get coverage at the same time when you’ve got two positions that you get you never do two main counters from and then lots of shots of the other characters all freaking out it’s generally quite interesting cinematography in part because of how up in people’s faces you are and then boom we switched to another drone shot of the bus moving now this is another bit of okay seems over now we’re having yes music and this has happened four times already we’re going scenes over scenes over sings oh yeah music I think we’re also being told that something bigger than a transition between things has happened because that’s the end of the team building mmm-hmm yeah we’ve got the Avengers Assemble noise yeah and we also have the seed of the conflict which is going to structure the middle babe yeah we’re just going to get them into detention which is when a bad thing happens which leads to the climax of day absolutely and this is an important shot as us another aerial show that’s going backwards this time it’s surveilling high because they’re having to find alternative route to school their skills obviously not in this city or it’s in a different part of the city that they’ve had to go a long way around to get around this bomb scare at shows you high close to every rural environment the cities are everything’s so green around them everything’s yields I’d really love to know specific locations like what bridge exactly really talking about and what road is this on this country road that they’re on because I’d really be interested to know hi aware of and I would say it’s probably the directors or location scouts or a team effort here on finding where these spaces are because I wonder how aware of video installations by the likes of Alito heard a they are who is an artist who comes from Derry and has made a lot of his work that’s about the conflicts and these kinds of transitory spaces in and around the city you can see there’s new River but that’s about it that’s all we can get F its location and if that is County Derry that we’re in that would be the foil but I don’t know for sure I bet that might even be a field rather than a river that’s unclear it is crayon can scrape far up so this cluster II conflict on the bastion of them is Africans we’re probably gonna have Jamie shut up by Michelle again join army checkpoint I’m sorry country teams probably first time I’ve ever seen a gun thoroughly on and michelle phan faces soldiers sorry to spent 946 so they’re not arched Michelle’s turned on James is having her freak right I mean does this perfect shot Michelle looking like hidden soldier but in the foreground slightly her focus certain Monica Jackson yawning because she knows she has a hairiest mouth we’ve got an estoppel sure as well for Michelle is she at least worth a seems to be sexually aware she has an event sexuality our first shot of the interior visco that’s the tenth soilless its purchase is not all i do you presumably that’s this staff that’s the male symbol and that’s sister Jacqueline trundle he’s under nine days trundling along and all the sisters have male I love about it it’s just an oddity of life which nobody even Jamie doesn’t go with wet white get together for assembly and fake assembly room whatever it is I’ve got a just quickly work out exactly what the time is when they arrive at school and this was found in a school that’s in Belfast a lot of its and nothing is Hunter High schol äj– I’ve written down his gin it’s that Jen will find out Danny I think there’s a girl that five word combination is one of the most sinister combinations you can use it has come – yeah well it’s a surveillance culture these are kids that actually that was something meant to say earlier with Grandpa Joe was this Arab so empty holds over Jerry I’ve got people looking and it you know it’s this idea that everybody is under surveillance within own community and this is something the convict very much dead was it would turn people against their own because everybody was watching everybody else it’s very much a surveillance culture or the has been my whole life and so you got Jenni as a prefect and I suppose she’s this archetype oh there’s always at least one who is the absolute goody two-shoes post they’re paired prefect she’s got the piece back Bad’s and normal she’s quite prissy to go her hair and a long plat a little pretty bow yeah Alice band with a bow and a long ponytail that’s a plot of course yeah she’s about this physically the smartest person yeah yeah she’s the most dapper looking even though they’re all wearing the same thing but of course you do slightly individual things within it they’re people who look just uncomfortable I don’t hate from either people like Michelle who will open the collar up on this shirt do that wide tie to make it look a bit disheveled and they’ve got all are not even wearing the little jumper that goes over the time she’s got she just looks like he’s lost a fight with her own school uniform that morning anyway that’s already set the trend that Michelle’s gonna consistently get them into some type of trouble and then it’s then they’re gonna do anything wrong it’ll just be Michelle doing stuff

sister Michael focus ranek Tony Tony makes big table it begins we noticed that if somehow managed to get drawing ice under the stage as well this is how theatrical this lie I used to be but she’s just described is sexual assault presumably just because he was male we know there’s no implication that he was English you know it’s the male thing rather than English thing that system that he was English but the difference is he was good reckon yeah and so it’s a slur on James nobody’s gonna be interested in him because none of them think he’ll of the road and he very much and Jim very much they are a dairy girl he is one of the dairy girls so you’ve got this thing of Abdullah’s for your protection but actually it makes him so vulnerable pointing him eyes and naming him getting him to identify himself scaring the bejesus out of them but also it gives you an extra hint of the way Michelle talks at Tasha’s like her character more the way she says things it’s another colloquialism is to describe somebody as a right or to describe the act of right and as being sexual know so if somebody is a right they’re attractive they’re sexy if you’re dry writing somebody it’s you’re dry humping them we had listen have about seven instances of women dominating yeah almost forty men so far and mr. Mullen affair is the last of these it’s really fascinating because this is a place where women legally so today you’re trapped in abusive relationships have no legal rights they have no right to any sort of protection nowhere to go you know there’s women’s II it can help but really there’s nothing and place to protect people who are stuck in abusive relationships and this is painting a picture of women being very aggressive which of course absolutely does happen more often than we would think but it really turns to tables quite a bit in a way it’s imagining the world where women are a much more dominant than they are but also girls of this age ferocious I think that the joke is left so long as well but I was a 22 minute 30 second episode we meet James always exactly the seven minute mark and then it’s only revealed at the what seems to be the 13 ish minute mark that now that he’s the only boy in a hitherto all-girls school he’s the first ever boy to go to the point and that this weird exceptions been made to protect him from it’s actually pro-vitamin much more danger because actually it’d be easier for him have used gettin beaten up every day this is absolute torture well he’s picked rates for the next couple of seasons because it’s the psychological torture and then as transpires in this episode he’s all I to go to the toy so there’s just a lack of basic human rights with him so it’s quite fast then just in this shot here where we’ve already got the non-diegetic music starting again this is clearly the scene ending shot that says something is about to happen everyone’s crossing themselves and it seems to be James’s thing I mean it’s the situation where a bunch of kids are being treated as a religious congregation even though they you know they’re kids I’ve got the wherewithal to work out whether this religion might have any accuracy at all but he’s been brought up in it too just on another island it’s just instinctively doing all this Catholic stuff so that seems to be his one anchor he looks actually is they’re calling you English but he probably does at least in part think of himself as Irish Catholic because of this moment and because that’s where we will have had a break and so this is the beginning of what I’ve called the stressy conversation 13

I think it’s risk right now as well with sister Michaels introduction at the assembly is the beginning of her first monologue I suppose it’s not really a dialogue you get little denty this is gonna be a sweet lovely nun and then she very quickly becomes a Sarah Burke and a bit cruel this is amazing Carrie yeah she’s really incredible that’s sure well mix Amy Turner I think it might be a bedtime this is what structurally I’ve denoted as the actual centerpiece of the episode even though we’re past the halfway mark now there’s only eight minutes left of 22 but it’s the Ella been structured around that odd break for channel 4 yeah I passed the halfway mark and I bring I suppose the reason I’ve called this the middle of the episode even though it’s not actually the middle is day this is the closest to the school day because we’ve got lots of getting up getting to school bus journey conflict stuff in advance of the morning assembly bubble bath okay finally now we’ve got the school day and this appears to be a stretchy conversation happening in a break time and then the next set of things that are gonna happen take them to sister Michael’s office and then boom suddenly it’s after school and they’re in detention and so you know there’s a school day this is it for the entire school day these conflicts continue to boil away the starving Michelle basically abusing James and has got them all into this horrible situation with four of them have done absolutely nothing and yet they’re getting blamed for having done something anyway interesting little extra bit of art on the wall there because it’s just a clock face but some reason it’s got a cross underneath it it’s gonna be a close

you’ve been listening to audio-visual culture shows me Paula Blair and Andrey she’ll this episode was recorded and edited by Paula Blair and the music is common ground by air tone licensed under creative commons attribution 3.0 and available for download from ccmixter org if you like the show and find its content useful and interesting please help cover production and distribution costs by donating to PayPal dotted slash Pei Blair Gore libera PACOM /p EA Blair episodes are released every other wedyn stay please read share and subscribe on your chosen listening platform as this helps others shine the show for more information visit audio-visual culture wordpress calm and follow av cultures and twitter and facebook thanks for listening and catch you next time



Audiovisual Cultures episode 8 – Derry Girls and London Irish automated transcript

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Hello and welcome to Audiovisual Cultures, the podcast attached to the broader AVC educational project. I'm the host and creator Paula Blair. Thanks so much to everybody who's been listening and supporting so far. It's really very much appreciated. We can only make these better with your help. I'm trying to fund the Audiovisual Cultures project via Patreon mostly, and if you feel able to make a monthly pledge, however small, that would be so gratefully received. I'm trying to design a website around Audiovisual Cultures, and I'm taking that term in the broadest possible sense. I want it to be quite a borderless, quite messy term and I want to really prod at the edges of any kind of discipline in the arts and humanities that may fall under that so it could be languages, linguistics, film studies, visual culture, audio cultures, performance, drama, music, podcasting, anything at all. I'm really hoping to populate it more and more episodes with guests and we've got some really nice guests coming up in future episodes. This week I ever it's the usual it's myself with Andrew Shail and we're talking about our experiences of watching that comedy series Derry Girls and London Irish. Both of the series have been written by Lisa McGee. We really enjoyed Derry Girls and as we're going to talk about it and she got curious and want to see some more of a civil case RT or work so we took a look at that. This is really a very informal chat and response to our hearings if those and also gives you a bit of a break from R. Coppola marathon that Spain coming three this is episode ETFs and four so far have been advised to face a couple less so there's a bit of a break from not as wild you can find me on peachy on I'm on Twitter P. E. A. Blair B. L. A. I. R. that people that are that's basically my handle for all the inter Nettie sayings if you want to get involved I'd really love to hear from you if you're working on some sun and Justin if you're a massive fan of something F. here in a discipline that you think even if you say gets a wild card get in touch with me I really love to hear from you name I can't offer you any money and if you're far away from where I'm based in Newcastle upon Tyne in the U. K. we're probably gonna have to do something over Skype because I can't really afford to jet setting lifestyle unfortunately to get to people and when I can get to other places I'll do the other interviews if I can't get to you please get in touch anyway and that's time day something over Skype will try to make it work because I really want to populate this with this much interesting work as possible I'm trying not to make it all by myself because I've got it lasts for my stuff and also there be weeks when probably I'll follow back behind Swiss producing these because I'm on a really trying keep them coming out every Wednesday so I probably will lapse at some point so catch up to me when I kept the faith I'll probably need to just pull something out of the vault of the %HESITATION her so they'll be plenty of time to hear it directly from Maine later on I really want to chime provides as many underprivileged voices as possible because fox very much concerned in my research please get in touch you can email audio facial culture sucks all one word all lower case at G. mail dot com not just for no I until I can get enough time and money to get a proper official website up and running and then I can buy a demand and get a property dedicated email for that until then I'll use it G. mail you can find me on Twitter %HESITATION and talk to me they're not sexy pretty welcome because in trying to get the word out about this so as much help as she can give me is very much appreciated and a big shout out to a my very good friends Fran Sanchez or taste because she's been retweeting every time I post something on it's very much appreciated she's got ready the lovely bank Hispanic cannot work and has been assigned one here for me and hopefully I'll get people like frowned and our other good friends Fiona noble on soon to talk about some of their many fascinating work as well that was a fun night I'll be back at the ends with a little bit more information thanks so much for less than thanks to orderly for giving me a little bit of money every month so much appreciated I hope you enjoy this and hope it's useful thanks very much so I'm quite interested to know here twenty P. as an English person what do you mean it %HESITATION let's start with London Irish so we're probably gonna try and talk about the St McKay's comedy series made for channel four written by Stacy McKee from Northern Ireland and Derry girls has been a real small shed affinity popular on the for the love to I love to and the special way that when good vibrations came I finally felt like and northern Irish saying that was for us by us and it wasn't compromising I'm because we enjoyed all of Terry gross quite a bit you spent on the narration I had been avoiding it for quite awhile because I knew what it was going to pay and I wasn't interested from your perspective he tell me what he thought this is going to be going to finding out about somebody's out for is that they have a breakthrough success and then you work backwards and undernourished home we do anything about them than ours I don't risk does not have the right title because it implies that it's about people who are lands not resources that states about for Irish people some of whom are actual supposed to think about fast but one of them does not sound like it's from numbers for your nation's I guess from the side it's not for people who were born in Belfast who moved to London for no particular reason to them already left that to them leave us to go live with them but no one seems to have any sort of profession or project that means that they will have to be that so the character played by Sinead Keenan she's a dental nurse but rather than not just a profession she seems to be a drunkard most of the time I think about it this is yes and then place it means we usually use the term to refer to people Hey or say the first and subsequent generations of Irish immigrant parents and yet usually referring to anybody from the so I support of course before hand anybody from the island but if their children and any descendants that is found in Irish of the McDonough brothers for example the filmmaker %HESITATION sh Martin and %HESITATION John bear island and Irish they have known the knock sensor grew up in London also refers to the reputation and the London Irish peace three years I think it's by the six episodes that Patrick or Pocky and fickle and played by your company and he does a really nice turn as a priest I'm Terry gross and this will be a thing because the reoccurrence of performance from London Irish in Derry girls is just one of the shop's name in some cases they were very welcome sight sexually and still collect the soaps and London Irishman may appears he's cleared across southern accents have a strange to find by the end of the series his brothers had northern accents and it was actually employed across the whole six episodes they're all from Belfast cement doesn't ring right a better suspension of disbelief necessitated that contains something similar goes on in Hong Kong cinema apparently people who end up making films in Hong Kong you're from Poland to join anything not from China then it's not quite so clear that these people roll speaking with very different regional accents but if you're from China right sounds laughable but nonetheless the kind of thing that you can suspend disbelief about us it seems you don't know the accents something similar happens in Derry girls as well over the accents are really distracting if you know the accent well for the home fears and dairy Saturday at this rate a bit frustrating so I really felt their frustration when I was watching on the Irish because those characters are supposed to be from Belfast and they sound like they're from anywhere fox to be fired Siobhan Keenan Sinead Connett cleaners are shrinking of Shiv on management caver who plays sister Michael and the third position eighteen and he's I think originally from Dublin she does really well but she actually tipped over and %HESITATION but she does too well Sandridge rebel faction at certain points and it's weird because then her brother doesn't signed anything like her which company okay it's just they have lived in the same places for most of their lives so that's not shearing injury and then there's another is papery Tracy lands he also appears in Derry girls as opposed she was the woman who runs such a sharp fan and I think the name and she is northern but then the father's paper Cardillo homeland doing a stab at the Belfast action begin doing okay but not great he's clearly from the spice to Maine there's a constant refrain across both series which is the everything and you can count to will have a very Irish name so they run the gamut that's because they're this is an interesting contrast actually with Derrick rose because the characters in London Irish sure told very clearly culturally Catholic and in Derry girls spend a whole lot of things that they do and say they're culturally Catholic but their names aren't they've got name sake Claire and Michelle I mean there's Aaron but still left some posts that caught the names that are supposed to recall it neutral but there's such a high concentration and even the other characters so they're standing as one of their kind of annoying adware siris nobody has already Irish name there's an Iowa and the chip shop and that's Friday even the male characters sorry they're not as clearly Irish as the names and London Irish on the access it might seem like a really silly thing I keep coming back to and beyond and manage he was the director of seventy one that was his first feature film which you need an entire week to watch because you need to spend half a day get ready and then the amount of time it takes to watch it and watching it and then the rest of the week recovering from watching and you saw it on a laptop screen I saw in the Senate math math my city but it's not my city because they couldn't fill them both fast because Belfast is not recognizable from nineteen seventy one Belfast because it very often the joker fate of the city has changed so much it has been shifted around so much and read about so much he wanted to come out fast but he couldn't so we had to film and city from Sheffield and Bradford and underdeveloped cities and England's for parts of cities that have seen regeneration but pockets of them how often they have to use those areas which I think is fasting itself announces today I've been dying to date for quite a long time and spell fast on the screen and places that have been Belfast sunscreen but also places at Belfast since being on screen and those rare times of Belfast if that cell phone screens anyway that would be beautiful book first off places pretending to be Belfast second half Belfast returning to be out of places to see maybe three parts because the third part of the thing itself I think it's quite rare but it's becoming increasingly with good vibrations in the fault anyway this is a whole other thing but gentleman's when he was preparing to make seventy one he went over to north an art and a lot to mental hospital and he talked to lots of different people because he really wanted the accents the often take because he said growing up as a long dinner and he seemed lesser first generation person he always gets really frustrated hearing awful dolci London accents from you Americans are here for people here not a toll from London's painting on a fake white boy cockney accent he finds it very frustrating so he didn't want to do that to us and I really appreciated that I appreciate so much about what he did enough %HESITATION and that was one of the things is getting the accents right making sure he called local actors to play a lot of the man speaking parts and that was so important to us in many fantastic and hang it stands well for the phone so then it's also when you call home grown television production with Terry gross it's a bit different because at least actors you're supposed to be from the north are from the north they're not from the right part of the north's but at least the No and then the Irish character stuff the free for all but in London Irish there's a few missteps because Irish implies for quite a lot of this Republic of Ireland and anybody who feels set up an optional persuasion whereas people like me we were brought up on the colonials things don't necessarily fail Irish in the same way where we have come to feel Irish because there's myself and a few people I know he mostly through Twitter we have for one reason or another make to England specific claim because I never thought like this when I lived in Scotland for a bit but I have always felt like this in England mating to Angus made me feel a bit more Irish because I realized how much of our I was even though I am the same and I'm not the same so there's not confusion I don't know I feel like I mean it's a comedy and I'm supposed to pay for Phyllis twenty somethings got blind drunk kind of comedy you know one house shenanigans and hijinks even though I find really tedious but anyway this is supposed to be made but using this person I'm just bothered on and we just kind of set up the playing field for this one because I think you need to know about the sharp one conspicuous feature where Simpson land transport police McGee is in both shows she populates the dialogue characters with specifically northerners margins and they reappeared some of them that is to twenty two shares it unless you have a list and you want to get one in the sense of each into the job of the character's name sorry I know it's working again but I feel like I need to explain because in Derry girls it felt more natural medicine London Irish it felt really she formed and it felt like the whole dialogue of a whole sequence was shaped around getting in the one phrase and I find that really irks some sort of phrases the example that comes to mind is catch a cell phone which is not the way it's pronounced as it cut yourself some slack but then there it goes it was dropped and an a rating out your way so you've got %HESITATION fair at St Mary's kitchen not cast of DA consent may stomach thanks Mr of phone calls Maine and I'm really hungry but it cream cost rating show because it wasn't said no for sure way there's some London Irish everything within your VS I'm screaming all the time I'm still angry and drunk and it felt like a really stereotypical portrait of arsonists worth actually more mostly pretty like bark this put this in perspective because I think that we thought had been done right and there it goes that wasn't quite done right and then did not respond I think we agree on this was that the dams have been turned up to eleven in London Irish and they only need to be at nine there it goes they take there was a father long quite nicely they were extremities to people's behavior but they were extreme enough simply being specific behaviors without needing to be exaggerated as much as a matter so just a little bit of turning it on was all they needed for it to be a lot more visible and the other reason to agree on was that account is on an Irish world quite deliberately for the purposes of coming here because they were quite deliberately floors but %HESITATION floor to the extent that it wasn't possible to sympathize with any of them to an extent any one of those people where is everyone who's on protagonist all she's great inter goes fishing news there are times depleted possible to sympathize with them I think it's a because they're teenagers in or not for on call the time Michelle is someone who's kind of ambition acting up quite a lot but she's not how did you come up really strong personalities and they're all individuals you unfortunate anguish to him from the middle of it all and he's their verbal punch back but he also got some really nice lines himself you feel like school on the girls soccer meeting if there's inclusion and exclusion almost that you got that teenage energy where is the twenty somethings here supposed to be old young professionals their actual decades was really quite frustrating because to discover the probe has actually a dental nurse no sorry you don't get to be a dental nurse I'm not much of a fuck wit at the same time I don't buy that about them it just feels like English stereotype of Irish people go from the center of influence alcoholism being quite simple they seem to take it in turns between them and the focus is on an Irish so was it Paki Connor needs and Brian if you just take it in turns to not understand the really basic fact about life and leave doesn't more than the others because of do it still makes sense one of the things that he doesn't understand the most absurd is that his brother might be joking when he was in England football teacher they might just be doing a bit of this because of counts is not understanding fundamental quite simple things about the world about people so I have to kind of take it in turns to be the slightly idiotic arguments I have to give listen to give it credit for this one the bit about Irish dancing on some Patrick's day I think it was about it was that four or five and it was one of theirs they wake up the morning officer in the day and the view I have to sometimes leave a construct what happened the night before and he's got really sore legs for example right they spent on that having sex with each other but I actually it turns out that I think they would check it out and he's really happy that he wasn't writing always call it yeah when he was doing fetching second that's the word they consistently ace and yes that is a word we use our Saxons rides it's actually more not showing Michelle keep Santa undergoes because she's really the only character who uses sign and Derek also is all of them say it constantly I'm not doesn't quite ring tree and the London Irish I'm sticking with it sometimes but most with all things in language in general can mix it up I mean there's the workbook with which is quite a lot I think that comes two months maybe noticed it just once in awhile because that's when you sort of need to expand but of course it sounds very close to fuck so you could probably guess something mean pretty much the same thing I just feel like it's a stage in development in a writing career we've been kind of hard on learning English because it hasn't some good comedy plots the report spread this bent double life and to be fair like I will fly that flag there are parts where I was three and it often harder just one liners I kind of remember what their work is even maybe just the way I character said something but it really made me laugh in a way that is going to happen consistently in Derry girls for a whole episode to make me do that and I'll have to watch the whole thing again because I've missed half the jokes because of an often so hard because it rings so true right and that's what I've been dying to see on the screen up and I see myself more on screen and it's still not quite myself because it's so culturally different from me but the posters golf person from a special classes yet sincere thing maybe that's one of my future writing projects there was one moment when your kind hi can I also %HESITATION yes the we love to get stuck in there and I think he's one of the exchange students from Chernobyl I'm looking at the plot descriptions on the old wikipedia here two point five five million so that prisoners and software isn't say here the guys name is right yeah so that school goes the Catholic school in Derry they'll get you Craney an exchange student to stay with them and there's this one who just isn't speaking it looks completes our fight but I see it turns out that he's a wee Protestant as one of them because in that season we Michelle because she wants to write an essay she thinks from Chernobyl but he finds her I'm just trying to help them she's not going right now everybody's then I find a policy which is actually on the phone trying to help them as a bonus too because the character is done much help each other they're really antagonist sixty each other a sort of comedy in involved in the kind of high octane big risk I never met and probably from the right side and you could tell me better maybe my friends might come across so we're really aggressive with each other because south how you doing that's just how you show affection you reach other money making me or your sack in each other whatever it is because it's showing affection is really hard especially in a place where there's been so much trauma we have really really dark rye sensibilities I think it just tipped over too far in London Irish there to grow their actually cruelty chiller at times they're now stay and it's just not hitting the right tone there's no deeper affection that's just our noble or implied and anything major they actually come across as if they hate each other for it is conveying in fiction that a bunch of people are being borderline cruel to each other because underneath that is any particular motive for showing affection that particular weight of could be tricky business across in the bottom right you need to have the reading well developed characters because the other characters who are very surface safe Connor and Brenda are brother and sister and Bruno comes across so she actually had her brother and she has and just keeps on going all the time hockey it turns out it has a better thing for Verona and they're constantly having something in my options are constantly at each other's throats and it's really hard to understand what any of these people are friends and they want to live together in one place and they've just comes across as a fucking idiot that they'll put up with but in Derry girls the relationship certain media they really well developed you can tell they knew each other they all have personalities that are distinct from one another but you can see why their friends because it's cherry it's from the heart I think the syndication channeling her own experiences I find it works as well because these girls are a little bit older than I would have been at that stage of the nineties I can see friendships for similarities or parallels of friendships hi how it's with girls specifically at that kind of T. H. not that kind of time so it works and it's a family comedy it's family orientated and that friends farms are the extension of her family there's a woman in London I'm sure right is the people who get on the line each other more than they do on their own family members Brunner income is moving down into more of a comedy double act that appears to do things that are slightly wacky every now and then I think one of the instances well I was just bent double acting was when that skyping Connor and they haven't quite worked out that you need to just slide the screen to be the visible in the scene little tiny moments like that after that both of these servers had lots of very fine yeah look at details that were really funny although I don't know I haven't watched either these two servers until recently it's well to remember one thing I think it's important to point out as well as both of the day nostalgie a fiery while pop culture nostalgia I was gonna say that there it goes does it motivates me because it's because this is only going to those moments of nostalgia most powerful when they're to do with Carl Hey this is something we've been talking quite a bit about it and our call for legislation but I think it's really relevant here and this is something I read a book posted by recently the London Irish give me access to it gave me language to the memories I couldn't give language Terry for most of my life a joke at Burness expense made a reference to the %HESITATION carting code rainbow brite and I had no access to the words for this but I had what status when I was a very small child maybe two three years old all my life have these images of rainbows and horses and tiny people and creatures and jams but that was it then rainbow brights and I looked it up and then hold became available to me and I suddenly have a lexicon the language to pay with those images that have been %HESITATION librarian for thirty years and not censor stuff girl had no style J. and then in Derry girls it's mostly in the music I think it was coming out in the nineties Thursday after so driving the Ukrainian extensions and there's a big party at Jenny's hoist because Jenny's quite posh and her family's got lots of money and she is a huge target specific party the card is a constantly amazed at how big how true indication I'm interested more wealthy than others and that the guy David Donlavey Arens obsessed for staging the party planet just since most hilarious moment again I was bent double I was still weren't left laughter when Saturday night by Wakefield's comes on and they have to do that done they come to north St the town's either some of them are having schools which are hopping a flight Kerr and Aaron for falling ice and they have to do to tons and I remember and again that younger than these characters rarely sometime Misco not song first came right I remember going to friends here are more wealthy than me and could afford birthday card he's never going to their birthday parties on everybody's coming to town fought so long and I just maybe eleven at the time and these girls are turning your fifteen minutes of fame that was particularly funny piece of nostalgia I think this damn good costing in both series everyone has been cost because they have comedic abilities including the comedic abilities to come from simply the way that they talk can please be naturally some of them might have exaggerated them just because they go out that's a funny thing I'll do I'll do that more than I normally do but what's the name social Monica Jackson was arraigned in Derrick okay when the first service just the way that she was using her George will be king they're very physical they're not afraid to use their faces and their birthdays and grant stitches maybe this is because I'm really easily amused and amazed by people who have a funny shape talking in a completely normal way for that funny surprise but I think it's a it comes back to the accent I remember being young and a lot of showing dissatisfaction or dislike or something was coming from your face thank you to your bank talked on a facial contortions and that which showed a surprise so and I think that is what is the kind of thing she's tapping into a good podcast acting here you put your face a certain way and that's maybe it's a northern Irish saying maybe it's a working class saying I'm not sure that was very normal and it was a mode of communication without words I think they're all very good at that physical thing and it's so great to see funny women doing funny things to their faces and not having to think about or worrying it by it being pretty or sexy or any of them also one of the things that %HESITATION goes did do that another student there was it specifically featured elements of the conflict that's because you know he's he's certainly going from a person who has some track record now for wanting a large counters and I wanted to know series how my gonna get this more successful than when I previously did one way to do that is to go what do people expect when going to do any fiction about no none of them need to have some sort of stones on the conflict London Irish was just not gonna have any mention of that whatsoever nationalize the race is not as close as it goes the odd thing but there was very minimal very impressive I think in Derry girls it's pitched really well the point of it and this is why I think it meant so much to people like me that experience of not just being a cage not just being a teenager not just growing up and all of that but that specific experience of being a girl slash young woman and having those growing up concerns are they specific time it's not just that it's the conflict it's in the nineties and it seems to be pre ceasefire it's hard to know because in the first episodes Michelle makes a reference to Ching pulp fiction she describes that she doesn't say the title of the phone but it's caption is pretty fair fight but it is it can only be pulp fiction the full section you can find ninety four but Michelle was talking about having just watched it and it's not clear she sought the cinema buffs I mean it's September they're just going back to school their specific the by when it came I mean I think it's a mishmash of roughly at nine days I don't think it's being terribly specific it's just being roughly around this time that stuff happens when you're watching the virgin suicides the Dodgers in music precisely dated the accident late seventy five are really seven means that accompany any earlier than a certain point if these are the references I don't know how likely it is that Michelle would have seen at the cinema and then if it was a video then that's ninety five her talking about it I also got the impression that this is supposed to be pre ceasefire but yet if it's pitched at September ninety four and may become face difficult to know how to deal with this it's just vaguely math nine days the cranberries featured conspicuously in the Honda Odyssey which is really weird because they're late singer dice while this is being hired for the first time January twenty eighteen inquest into her death is currently aged there's a kind of moments there of the conflict has been in full swing for a while it's well better than it's been going on for over twenty five years this points the battle lines are drawn for me things might be starting to progress towards change but it's so precarious in the nineties the seventies are probably depends on your view point really the seventies probably sold the rest of the finance and not really most fast on it this message here things get a bit more precise the talks began in the eighties it's hard to know what to say specially in a recording because there's so much the thunder even there so many open secrets are so many things that we know but we don't know when it's hard to know what you're really able to say I suppose it's just say that certainly from my experience of growing up in the nineties and being more aware of everything in the nineties because I was born at the end of eighty four so I know within ninety days at rings true for me what they experience they set their getting on with their lives there nothing to do with their families nothing to do with after normal from me trying to get on the stuff they've got normal concerns are starting to worry about police about their sexuality they're worried about getting jobs are very different their futures but they also want to have fun they want to be so lazy but they want to grow walked in there at that time of life and there's all these different inner conflicts going on and they're constantly reminded that this Baker order civil conflict is going on so there's parallels are between the personal and the public and the political peak at police hands because Iran seems to be at least trying to be socially aware he got the online from her neck she was she's concentrating on what's going on probably a lot more than the adults in her file name but she's still a teenage girl in the office today teenage girl things and she's obsessed with apple AD she will soon pass and you have a really powerful moment at the very end of the series wire the archival footage is Houston this is a very common trope throughout cultural production generally that is me is contemporarily sets in the past during the years of the contracts were archival materials used to look at the top of her similar chiefs that more documentary than failing it said she had said in reality let's be precise this archival material and that they watch this on television but it's real footage there's going to be true but it's not as they have a vision today it's now the vision use FedEx second this is usually what comes up and you know so it comes up along good vibrations as well you've got a lot of television footage that's specifically news reportage of events so it's framed in a particular way so you've got these glaring Sahara conflict is framed all the time hi at three percent to slide three presented the way it is see photos report about a bomb on their death in the family you're looking at the TV you said you've got a poignant moment where the grandfather played by Ian Michael Haney is finally settled to have someone like Jerry Hughes from the Saudis and they're all kind flick and yet they hit the southern her and he said this one moment of him being human towards Jerry that's the pay off because he's being more Celeste Hammond for six episodes in those final moments the sale actually he does care about him and he does have a spark of humanity they just show up very often he probably is quite affectionate tourist areas just to count show and he seems so much she's been through so much she's lost people you start to get a fuller story of his history he's lost his wife his daughters have been pissed off because he has a woman friends if you go through all these little dramas that are bubbling along quietly across the six episodes respond in Irish is more fragmented if these people are encountered in this episode these people are in countries in this episode and very seldom does anybody carry over Hey isn't one of Simeon for characters part from the parents is the point of one of the conspicuous differences between London hours there goes is that there's a proxy for known northern Irish views in d'errico said doesn't exist and on the Norwich in the form of the currency you cold regions his name's James requires type is it James is James is that before Michelle's current affairs in cash but I mean that he was born and brought up in England but he is because that's one of the first things Michelle says S. two member my and wanting them to get an abortion but never had the abortion and then you immediately failed her to see follow because he is gonna get torn to shreds by the speaker I'm not set up so quickly and it never stops being funny some of the most brilliant comedy the first upset is that it's not overtly stated as over Houston is going to school the guns wonderful girls yeah no and run schools extend only made apparent when they're wrong nor the uniforms and then the big assembly hall beginning ten system Michael four come back to this genius genius namens the system was giving a speech at this year's all yes and there's this guy James and he's coming to the school even though it's an older home school because there were concerns for his safety if you're going to the local boys school because unfortunately James happens to be of course were you expecting to come roaring tentative %HESITATION out these notes that he happens to be invested thirty happens to be honest and not to be Catholic right but now its existence has a fantasy is coplink because this mother's complex so it is kind of high fat he's English it's a different kind of conflict he is the wrong accents is become the oppressor a difficult a lot of this series James is the one who when the characters from Derry do anything just kind of stands and goes yeah and I think they aren't as bad as it was wrong but he has that kind of burden for those services but also he has said K. new trauma of being abandoned by his mother and then there's %HESITATION Michelle's mother in the first episode since January seems to believe this burden because face the abortion never happened the series does repeatedly bring to light issues that are relevant back then and now it does it does it quite simply having the abortion issue take the first officer to the natural deference to kinds I have anything to do with Catholicism take that's done nothing can ever search for with America live to cry Madonna I think if you don't okay yeah what is that you don't pay for the okay above where the stature and retiring the final episodes that was a really lovely lady jays are are coming away and said no I mean it being a better deal because I think it was more concerned with being very selfish in wanting to run the story about it but not it being a big deal and there's a lesbian so it's dealt with the thing for you and then it all comes together at the end of your life it's the weird spacer one on this the food embracing of her weirdness at the end by then the solidarity between the mall details yeah six that somebody really remembers what the early to mid nineties last time when you guys step aerobics I did the school of law and the nineties alone if the first year of this millennium static Rita quite often P. and that was incorporated into dump stuff every day can be when I was in the mid teens %HESITATION and I'm surprised it's one of those it takes place in more less real time episodes and it's they're going for a holiday to this fund is a whole lot of things they're gonna cross the street here's flooring is hal but has a really good tent and lands than his second best time of my hands and then the nearing the border by pulling off to get something out of it because mom's worried about the point of having any posts and luster pump purse is very funny because I hope I have your first and then they find a guy who seems to be right yeah %HESITATION this though they also get stuck in an orange much on the way out that so far actor Phillip is stuck in the conflict %HESITATION father it's just a term and he knows the way and then Jerry definitely there's always jokes about him being a Japanese terrorists right but he's trying to be Australia but it takes images for him to actually says being Australian they make all these cracks but I'm trying to be tough but there's quite a few quick bank well known actors and comedians doing really quite small parts but yet they do so much with the parts and you feel like they've actually made these relationships Tommy Tiernan in Michael had eight points off each other really nice lady and there well first of all life and the generosity of them free of me having a few minutes every episodes and it being a fight the young women on their parts did not to talk told from the girls their bets are interesting sort of side dishes I don't know what it is they're integral because I think they build the background for why aren history she is her personality is coming very much from her family's lack she seems to be the same person surrounded by Notre stuff anticipate insane herself because the modem in the middle principal yeah kid who's not the only kid but compared to the parents and their siblings is the only level headed person in the entire environment and so there's a lot of infrastructure particularly serentak around are going but she also has her own moments of walking this ticket to the parmesan the final episodes and chips promoting the woman will you communication students one is convinced that Clinton's catcher working as prostitutes just quickly giving all the nuns male hands yeah I mean the %HESITATION comedy touches I think the one who dies in the first episode page interactions using enterprise what was the highlight what is only ten a family support system Michael says he wouldn't talk southern accent she says learns that have been going to the next you're not going to go super stars are bright go on she should need perspective on it for you yeah sharks also I think what was it just fine %HESITATION social maker second down and went okay just say numbers one of which is on the way three to five all Pareteum's another thing that really went I didn't did a bunch of kids from the kids being a person of some old age while one of them is stealing her food another one of them is paying and then another one was climbing out the window another one of them is Michele Bachmann up sick holder was picking up the head of system that %HESITATION yeah that's because our expected because London Irish first a late twenty thirteen and Derek goes first and the twenty eighth this is a four and a half fish you've got two things a lot well actually surprising amount remains the same Jeremiah in the basement he is determined in both to just get across how old people spoke when she was a kid presumably yes and then the same time so much has happened politically or not happens both happens enough happens and northern Ireland's over those four or so years there are a lot of tension set ever race in Derry girls is committed this time when it started to error just at the cusp of the anniversary of there not being an assembly and northern Ireland's anymore and just as it was about to go into a direct road just before the death of Martin McGuinness you know massive Terry Hecker and they didn't really go into those political areas there's the famous gable wall murals you're now entering free Derry that's the biggest political as you're gonna get and that's done in the first ten or so so yeah just to get out there this is taking place in the early to mid nineties and for not knowing about it it's it's it's it you see the joker phase of the study of the %HESITATION but you know we see a little bit of the walls he C. as it opened the box I think I have any pain Centauri a few times I think three or four times we thought well we need you in the last time we were close by the last time that the first time you went what I know of it is mostly from the artwork that I've studied status of the city and it's made it there undeniably see maintenance phone largely in London this is one of those the city could be anywhere yeah because used cityscape views get seems very daily make reference that you care about you see them in cheap stations and they do look like cheap stations they do the quick cheap transition you to see them London's from those places where it snowed several villages and you don't really know where but fair but I think there's a highly collection of Irish diaspora in the north the it's a big place also talking about two series which only had one season each yes bugs Terry gross we know has been recommissioned it was recommissioned really quickly because it got really good ratings for as long on this was nothing more in the long run to be sure of the birth of these series they both made it past the pilot stage yeah that's true because usually when watching the first one you watching a pilot and that's why I think the first episode of the new %HESITATION carryover second episode when things that are in the second third and fourth so whenever Serbs do carry on because the first one wasn't scripted service to have set up storylines would continue we're talking about something which is a short one season best of alcohol fuelled banter and from among the Martian Derry girls which is quite a big success in part because it was really really well advertised mmhm back in twenty thirteen I was watching channel four on the telly I don't remember seeing a single trailer for no I don't remember anything about it shall I watch and read eight twenty thirteen because of an upper dating and then have TV and then move back home %HESITATION I have no time to watch TV because I was having my pick very experiment I had fun %HESITATION teaching full time said no notion ready folks going on beyond the chiller academic career life but it really wasn't on my radar and I don't think I was terribly aware of it until we were taken straight all for comedy faults because they're looking for stuff to watch I think it was really you want to watch it because she's really enjoyed Derry girls but I took one look at any time in like it was before you too can persuade him to watch the first one and a bit more spreading towards the second only offered at this wedding towards the third one gives you a nice to get into the groove of the season I think that I thought well I'm associates very even though I'm not enjoying it for a punt probably more for knowledge I think it is the end of the fourth episode was where the rainbow brights thing happens right at the very end of that episode and I think for that alone it was worth seeing hosting because that has solved the puzzle of my child to to me it's helping me get to know myself and a strange way I would say %HESITATION right I don't like it I don't like London Irish I wouldn't recommend watching it necessarily I think it's really problematic for quite a few reasons but I am grateful to it for giving me the language defective memory so I couldn't quite catch up another significant difference between these two is that across London Irish the unifying conference bowl was they were arranged to go and do some sort of social event will attend some sort of social event one of them has an ulterior motive and then ask the social event everyone does some things city so that they will have to leave in disgrace the only variation they did or not was the morning officer officer to where they actually just skipped over one it happened that night and I had it will be constructed from morning off that's one of the events was they went to an art gallery and the artist to somebody who actually wanted to play with and so the evening was Pocky cumulatively finding that all of his friends were doing humiliating things %HESITATION but that fourth person wants to possibly put off and I'm not actually happen to think to assess beforehand with the one where he was trying to have the same car he's partnered died yesterday by someone who was burying her %HESITATION there's this weird turnaround in the last episode where it becomes apparent that he has a thing for Bruno it was done in one scene lasted about eight seconds I think as part of a movie wants to meet with curiosity or set something up this season the third episode was one of the following and she counts during again it's something quite unsavory it seems that she's on antibiotics that party for an S. TNA it symbolized he's drunk and she's sober and somehow he finds him really attractive certainly and there's this moment where there's a bit of tension there but other stuff happens to have to consider that because one of their friends trying to get himself in a party which is hiring us for everyone the way that's even done I don't know if it's distasteful arm taken to say gore at the not the tone that's just not quite at that so crazy right now both in funny so it sets it off and then in the very end of there's a moments and the six one where she nearly gets it on with his brother he's warning them top and he said and it's just really weird and he and she said why the bare cock A. and he's not answering her you know and so there's just just moments and I she said the seventh Senate up for this potential second services never happens and I'm not thinking not would have been nice if they just were better character if they were not better people book more well rounded characters they're just quite shallow I think is the problem and I think that's why you don't care about them if you need it yes there is a kernel of humanity in these people and they're just a bit misguided and a bit disillusioned and things like that we all have those patches in her teens or twenties I've been thinking for a long time certainly the way my twenties plant that you're twenty six you're obsolescence done properly because nobody can really stop you Holcroft again either to your system it's sort of like the turbo version of the change and then you begin to try to wise up and stop signing your thirty seconds there's people who actually how is that teens during that teens are having the to your wish you're not having on teams in %HESITATION maybe kind of nineteen inch starting at least along twenty eighth we were actually old enough because you've wised up enough you've hardened yourself to the drink enough he can handle it better you can say no to things you can be a bit more sort of fish market or your system surname thank us if he end up still then well into your twenties you have steam tomorrow that's what I think of a permanent because surely she's had two years seven today attempt on our show respect him alternative and certainly all the ones I've ever come across it and highly professional but of course the for the working environment so it might it say they're not going blind drunk like she does every day of the week I think one of the they've turned up to eleven where it is not necessary to it is actually a bit complicated when he's not drinking she's suddenly complaining about her state of mind and how it suddenly she's finding people reporting all of a sudden she's like what's wrong with me I think come on whether one of them just because you know Simba the idea being that she hasn't been sober her internal life because those that they could be a character who had never been sent from phone number like that stamp turned up to eleven because that's comedy doubles over seven today I find her very aggressive character on her correction seems to be coming from nowhere the trouble something if there's no reason for her aggression you could argue that will female character something we need to move on from them being to fear and being facing and being Sachs AT and she doesn't have to be likable she can just be a batch but it's just there's no accountability for her bitchy ness I just cannot understand why the three people who live with her live with her because she's so horrific enough they took them all of the time and she's not joking I can imagine somebody like her who would be that acerbic he would say those things but he would be clearly joking while saying those things to your brother and your best friends this seems to be the thing that our girls got right that there were situations of absurdity each of these absurdities was based on something that could feasibly have occurred only because physically something that happened all the time in the area in nineteen others care affection between characters even when there's antagonism there's a kernel of affection the %HESITATION says he is an important part of Derek I was like that but when Erin's mom is trying to persuade people to have an abortion for quite a long time night probably an exploration ship nearly I've been trying to get you to learn how to go to Washington and I faced so did you want and I feel vindicated for the listings well it just gave me a very long he merry China G. to Washington to try to get all the darks everybody's governor colors and she wants the dark side I mean right %HESITATION merry you tell who it is that they don't make it clear what she's often only the people so there's really just said to her now I absolutely know what isn't that no in my review level find anything and only offer if you use the coupon that you can rummage through my laundry we hear what you won't find any doubt that's why it's patch to add three Merion Sarah because they're so common serwis quite space say she's very clearly for this mom and I really like their relationship because the both space cadets Ferris just that never shaker at she's selling makeup done and she sent her bathrobe goodness farms you're not going to find any in there and he was just talking really slow today and that's the difference the characters will talk so they and Derry girls who take the time to spread things I know will be cherry wires and London Irish it's too fast Thurstan everything a million miles a minute we do talk fast and yes there's times when it's gonna be asking you to talk fast but there's times when you have characters like Sarah your space safe and he will take time over things and there's not much thinking going on in there what said is considered liberal it just feels like a cheery person feels like some deaf man's open today another thing that distinguishes Terry gross that there's quite a few characters who were the ones who %HESITATION in any situation on the normal ones the typical ones were surrounded by a typical manages one of things is quite distinct from the first one was when I found a job and Michael having when we first see him being antagonistic towards Jerry Tom Tennant here's why did you leave my daughter because her seventeen years we have two children together one of these really hearing was in his restoration everyone takes it in turns to look a little bit slower than me used to that kind of looking around going so far just lost money did that thing just happened person just say that this company has been quite consistent in Florida but it's one that works is it gives you if you are a proxy to go you're not being expected to see what these characters are thinking and saying to each other as normal because his because my characters have been thoroughly designs virus found in Irish just Brenda dental nurse lives in London from Belfast's smokes and drinks hello that's our whole personality that's everything about her you need to know enter those with learning things about each of the characters yeah Kansei onto their interactions with each other with merry she's the highest wife but she's not the typical depiction of her life she is rude she is the law and not home she has everything organized she's everything round and everything's precise she's quite OCD or by everything being in the right order done at the right time she has half of the character she's also quite scamming the first time you meet there in the first one Erin is want to be an individual no one ahead of time and jackets Cisco and so the Blazers merry just fix it our senses Jerry cat made a wooden space and everybody just had a shiver down their spine thanks so much as conveyed by her character through the line but also through the delivery of the line it's a fantastic cast and it's a really low cost program others get casting in London Irish as well I just don't think it's as effective as in Derry girls Derry girls really the only criticism as the accents aren't quite right everything else is spot on and all that is is that people who are supposed to be from the north west are actually actors in the northeast trying to pick on that accent a few difficult accent I couldn't J. and I wouldn't try to Jerry a Jerry northwestern's accents we can continue this after we do that every once in the last few days I'm also very perfect for just making more months ago because I would normally be back there around this time of year I'm not going I don't know when I'm going back we have more from Neal street school for my get onto my first impressions if if there is I've learned things from it about northern Irish people think about themselves it's not to say I've learned things about northern Irish people from different things but none of those people who use explaining things about it and responding to it but as it is a matter of us is a portrait of us it's intriguing police what is said about Lisa McGee's she's going this part of the British Isles it would be a mistake to regard it as our mission it would be a mistake to regard it as British it's knowing either of these things it's an old corner weather's antagonism towards both of these are discussions as well as this severity from both of these parts of Brazil that's what I'm getting from varicose veins not rush we're a bunch of comedy people and also in both some elements of drama that's one thing we have in front of our these fit within the comedy genre because of what they are for the majority of the time but that's not to say that %HESITATION exclusively comedies there's a bit of drama so when the first season of dragons and it ended on a very strict non commitment that was made because I'm actually charged by over the preceding company I wasn't accomplished something up wasn't just comedic buff was a show of solidarity amongst friends that was really special apart from all the friends getting up on stage yeah and Tommy and Jerry Jerry and Joe Thomas is Gerry with Jerry Jones a moment of I do actually have some moments where he's sliding nice to getting on Thursday to civil tenuously into cut bits of not comedy at the end of this comedy series graves calling in advance that's going to be a book to be planned on this about comedy series that specifically and we've known comedy moments as if there needs to be a decompression from all of the committee or is there still needs to be a signal that the season is ending by ending the extra hearing ones all right switch into another one it's important for all of you here in Britain to have seen this because stuff one of the slide the moments of hilarity and the weirdness of everyday life were punctuated with severe tragedy and trauma I'm not was normal for us so normally didn't realize it was normal for this only rating running mates to Britain that I started to discover her all of my child to trading laws to put it there was a moment in the very first episode of thirty girls who go through a checkpoint the super soldiers and someone come on board fathers and we James is looking terrified yeah the others the computers used for foreign ones even if for some reason is you saying oh he's arrived about one percent I think that is important to put them together this is very unlike the experience in the mid nineties of the majority of people and that was just everyday they're still women having to walk up to any security point of any kind of pain still just woke up and opened their home back because he had to be tracked all the time and energy shops in and out of parts of city centre and somehow but it's a physical memory that doesn't three I want to spend your whole adult life compass said it may not be so poignant I think it was really emotional for a lot of us because that's how it was and I'm glad that people in Britain say that on that day for free she did amazing Twitter explodes and this is a problem with being on Twitter when they show you love is being seen by people when it's broadcast on TV and you don't have TV so you're waiting until the next day when you want John concept so I have an idea of what was gonna happen I needed this I didn't know exactly what it was but I knew there was going to be some sort of major conflict defense was gonna coincide with something really poignant the same blocks of gradation laboratories from marching at treating with the response and how important was was really afraid to say all of us and for them to see that's what that was iconos going yeah that was what it was like and need help from the center for all these years we could have been telling me that this is one of the five leading character slightly absurd comedy will succeed in their twenty years later it says something about a general willingness to return things that are overtly fictional as if they had no hot button lately it's not that simple but our our general willingness to work out something there's been continuing between fact and fiction but something that occurs in fiction because it's got these changes a personal issue these ten just off of interstate will be taken as a relatively after account of what actually happened in reality an attachable fiction where someone just telling you maybe %HESITATION %HESITATION just much more skeptical about this the artist on it already one said to get to the truth it needs to be mediated cursed and that's kind of what it is not with something I worked on a lot in my PhD research was set up %HESITATION to which parts of the convicted mediators and mediatized and not where you start to reach people and create affect %HESITATION empathy it is kind of what you're saying he needs a fictionalized the trace to get to the truth so the people can feel each other's pain at stake in the sectional characters for people in Britain understand the positives like for young women young girls growing up not playing so not to sign those juxtapositions of pure joy and solidarity against people dying involves the normal companies being brought to gather for moments when the sticky problems but there's also the selling us their reference it just growing up and trying to be eight carats liking the same music knowing the same promises as the ones to psy's islands to the Easton PA and you know the famous some ERP arms we've said for many years that Northern Ireland is a place apart hi continues to be but spend nearly a hundred years since partition and the six countries have been after retired just in their own saying or being controlled from where the other and people having very mixed up identities and not really feeling a sense of belonging to one island over another but not feeding belongs by either of those islands that's really difficult to reconcile with the sense of your own belongings about the rejection from the same if you feel you belong to what we need is a drama okay with all of it you know comedy with sent somewhere we're not used to associating it with conflicts just introduce a parallel universe thing where that's completely artificial split in Wales for example it's creating a conflict between people who have the two of them completely fine neighbors or did it just says it ten years in the future when this country is not part of the European Union %HESITATION the north side split and I'm concerned that son's second tournament twenty four somewhere around the house and have everybody he site side of that totally rigid you sit dine %HESITATION make it seem smaller than it actually is not rated in over eight hundred years of historical tensions notion like shit please K. all my goodness easily we need to revisit the roses thanks again for less than PlayStation %HESITATION and subscribe Fayed the RSS feeds on my Patreon PH or on a cast I edit the recordings to make the listening as smooth as possible which takes quite a bit of time I'm gonna keep access free so if you can spare a small regular payment to Petri on dot com forward slash PDA prior that would help huge scale and be so appreciated I'm trying to raise funds as well to pay fees for hosting sites that would enable uploads tie chains and help keep the podcast ad free monies received also goes towards establishing a website producing video presentations and lectures and saving up for much needed new equipment and software next week we're talking about eight ready player one so hopefully that will be fun for those few have seen at all the best for nine thanks for listening