transcript

Audiovisual Cultures Episode 123 –Studio Visit with Susan Hughes

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Show notes

Paula Blair visits Susan Hughes at Orchid Studios in Belfast to chat through her work. Susan is from Belfast and graduated with her MFA in 2021 from the University of Ulster and received that year’s Centre for Contemporary Art (Derry) and Platform Arts (Belfast) graduate awards. She has completed many artist residencies in Ireland and Scandinavia where she has used her traditional fiddle-playing as a bartering tool to gain access to local stories. In this episode we learn about Susan’s practice involving painting, text, sound, colour and light across different media, and spend time in particular on uses of language and encounters with the natural world. If you get something out of this episode or know someone who will, please share it and give it a good rating and review on your podcast app!

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license. Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity. Recorded on 28 and 29 July 2022. Get early access on Patreon.

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no C. facial cultures the podcast three different topics across film arts and media this is a special one because it’s the first in person recording not with someone I live way since March twenty twenty on the twenty eighth of July I visited artist season Hughes at her studio in Belfast and she kindly let me poke around and talked about her work as you’ll hear season marks across lots of different media including video audio music painting storytelling and sculptural light boxes and a lot of these incorporate taxed light and color in some way Susan is very drawn to water and land that is near water season as a graduate of university of Ulster’s masters in fine arts program and we talk a little about her experience of completing that during covert restrictions before a play you are chopped me huge thanks to our fantastic patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash a fee cultures for your generous support to gather our patrons are funding our website and every night again tak upgrades and I really wouldn’t have come this far with Saudi official cultures with items so if you wanna join and help that process and helps out work as well as getting lots of exclusive extras and early releases then please have a look at our tears on peach tree on and see if there’s anything that works for you and if you just want to drop a one off Pfeiffer for example there are buttons on the website which is audio visual cultures dot com or please just show support body sharing with friends and giving us a nice review where for days that he listen I’m a huge fan of citizens and I hope by the end of this chapter he will be T. enjoy somebody doesn’t at the same person was in March twenty eighth just before the end times so here the chosen one season so it’s really a class to be in your studio and how will we put the fight and see your work in the flash it’s ready to answer phone yeah %HESITATION for anybody to send hi we know each other that is three two one LH he’s big friend of the show and has been on herself and she did dead bending glass Choubey neon few months ago and you were one of the incredible people he gave some of your work so last night I discovered she existence because I’ve been away from Belfast Northern Ireland for quite awhile and I missed a lot of people so you know it seems like I mean you’ve you’ve been on the art scene for quite awhile but he did your MFA there was not he graduated last year so %HESITATION he seemed to be really prominent this year but that’s my perception from being quite far right side so I mean if you’re happy season which she like to give us just a bit of background about yourself and say what you wanna say and tell us a bit of an introduction to your work and then we’ll start picking through and see if we can sure M. well I didn’t I am thirty at night and I did my degree you know like twenty years ago yeah twenty years ago and the art college here in Belfast and a study Panton but then it was a big guy what like seventeen years I guess until I did my masters and in between them you know I did different things was that I was an art teacher in a school and then I can go a bit disillusioned with it education system and decided I wanted to get back into the art and have a proper practice so I left teaching and a lot of residencies and knots I suppose developed a methodology or way work in words my fiddler played Irish traditional music and so my fellow would kind of be tracked me to certain places in Ireland and Scandinavia as well now %HESITATION and Norwegian folk music as well and then in those cases I would swim in the sea and the music as well would be like a way to learn effective under the sea and also it’s like currency so you can like swap June for a ride in a boat more for some someone will bring up the mountain or you know you can kind of get to know people quicker get into society quicker so I became really interested in Swiss folklore and storytelling and not necessarily just folklore but also it was kind of experience all things dramatic stories are I would hear of white and the city and they were all intertwined with my own experience as well this is well this woman and the relationships we build with people in romantic relationships as well on the intensity that is that associated with the physical environment so we added crystal resin seasoned and Norway and have done a few on Ireland’s everyday like islands my Daddy is a bird watcher so that would it become something I got interested in myself when I was eighteen I started I went to volunteer with the RSPB on on Robben island %HESITATION and then a few years ago and to a little island in Iceland that was a bird sanctuary soon yeah the the birds and and those kind of really %HESITATION hands are places that are kind of on the edge which is where the birds go to places that are on the order parameters of say Ireland %HESITATION ice land that they stop off Oct those are places that really interests me in the usually quite harsh and dramatic places but then added to my masters I graduated two years ago and not change it changed everything you know like it it’s %HESITATION I had been working in a very limited pilots doing collages these little sort of sculptural only after things they’re actually and this was this was before my monsters but those connect the colors of the sea and Ireland and one third basically Grays and turquoise is %HESITATION drawings and things and am yes reduce your photography %HESITATION hyphen one forever I’ve been using taxed for a long time nine and everything was quite autobiographical and personal but they wanted the monsters I can’t came item myself a bit more I started using other people’s stories and other people’s experiences and I was interviewing people and then kind of retailer story but three a lot of video this was my final show would have been a mixture of video art installations this year by fox it was also not sure that you are hot yeah that was part of me and a monster shows and I was it was out of the facilities in the article above you know life technician who can help you with having your video editing to get to higher level and %HESITATION just shooters conversion of your comfort zone yeah you know and and getting the confidence try materials and you know I don’t know anything with sculpture but none of us know anything about anything you just have to get on with it and try it you know and this is what what is what you do you have even if your tree into something else is your eye and you’re like I wanted things to be certain a sack yeah yeah and and you I knew what I wanted you know I talked to I started to learn how to I. T. sources while and even everything didn’t have to be done by my hand I can get the perspex guys to cut costs things to measure and I get to employ someone to make me a box that was really really crisp and perfect instead I can make myself so that was a pretty mind blowing you know when they had things like making video I always had this feeling of everything had to be completely authentic and on that if I was making a video for the subject of the story was about a certain face the dolphin a child to be from that place but then you know I started learning but fully artists I’m sorry if you want to create drama and story years everything’s kind of possible and you can if the story is authentic and you’re telling if it can be authentic with I’d have enough you know all of those things haven’t become a place so few things are not really interested in the monsters this was the any kind of further education I don’t Belfast perfectly good for support me with learning how to write proposals and things have gotten getting you better at talking about your work and articulate and yourself so all of that was helped me get more opportunity since graduating as well the Athens asik yes you have as a little show a few months back you probably think was meant %HESITATION this platform it seems very based Ryan’s that idea if there’s a lot there’s a lot of language really interesting use of language is just hiding somebody has said something so the idea of SWAC spot it was a touch the story that you picked up somewhere and I’ve been really drawn in by your use of tax because it feels abstract is but it’s very much linked to something very real for either yourself or for somebody else maybe it’s somebody you know or to be ratified or interviewed or something like that and I am just so interested in how you use and the way somebody has said something and it’s often quite accidental you know in spontaneous sewer you know it’s they haven’t sort of sudden thought it but something I need to say something profound about this but it comes right into quite a profound way but it’s quite accidental yeah yeah I mean I I think I started out I I’ve always been right myself you know but I was looking at my father’s bird watchin backs is can Hey there like ledgers I suppose where he would take any notes when he was in the early days of our motion is so extreme minority that he would like hi detail the kinds of every place that he went and the bird in high heat high the birds flight wasn’t so I started looking through those and yes this accidental classes and whenever I isolated things that he had written they were just so beautiful and they could also and when they’re taken out of context this year and then invent their own narrative so they become like more valuable or something yeah yeah we really enjoyed planner aren’t aren’t I like place in my own words west beside his yeah because everything that I write is so old I self consciously poetic I’m trying to be yeah so I said you know one fact is so affected okay really you know by all the the time to talk to writers and I enjoy reading that and I’m so paranoid about what people think about what I write what I mean chorus his stuff is in my god or are you someone somebody’s just tell a story well the people that I’ve managed to get hold of to tell stories a lot of them for complete you know on conscious of of that kind of thing you know but then when I combine it with my own stuff is more self conscious it can it changes it then again you know it’s almost like an active and kind Sir these two stories might meet each other and then you just have these moments is just drawing together almost so’s reading some of your stuff in your web page this morning and that’s how it felt when you you would compare you’re a kind of an experience west and according to that friend to told you an experience I’d had that was entirely different but very soon so they almost pinched together or they repel each other but they’re just offices you know there are two sides of a coin almost you know that’s the way it’s perception it’s a ways of thinking things that’s what’s been Mister members you were quoted we change from where retrospectively looking at something and say may have been incredibly anxious in the moment and terrified not knowing what’s gonna happen next and then you look back in your own reading was fine actually I think you were I was you know this Iraq’s those bobbing into each other moments I think yeah yeah they can it because you’re I think you’re talking to bye %HESITATION no the story I interviewed a neighbor of mine worn it I mean she she I just call her on my friends but then one day she just mentioned are her boyfriends and like they’re both in their seventies like your boyfriend manages the value of that time when when I got lost in the jungle what you need is a it’s still legal story I mean I was like just I couldn’t stop thinking about it and then I Oster Kening come back and tell me the story again I’d lost stuff kind of initial yeah I think of her talent but she too was again perfectly you know yeah she’s she’s a beautiful speaker and she is good with words but she she’s kind of carefree as well so but anyway her interview actually transcribed it and she talked about it you know gotten lost but also really specific things that claim and all M. a particular MD riverbed %HESITATION you know with the animals and the sign of the animal Slater in nineteen she can see them and when when you’re transcribing them sure it seems even your lesson over audio soul %HESITATION are serving you kind of get obsessed with this voice and on her and her voice in her story can I merged into my own memory of an experience of getting lost in the mist intermingled with my friend and I started to it was the weirdest fan it was kinda like faded out as it was you know that I felt like I was more now than I was in her body and then I was remembered my own body imagining planning dying and this particular beach in Donegal and and then be in the best with my friend and you know just these three stories I was completely obsessed with them and they started emerging because sometimes they would have these that moments like what you’re saying where they they become like inversions are like the inmates were she’s talking about climbing up the rocks and I was in my gin and climb and dine Roxanne hello yes is talking about starting to loosen it so yeah it is like a market and printed articles and stories and I started to like make code between what was common worker there animal science mentioned were rather worse the weather but what was the cedar in in both these different places I don’t know it’s just it’s just fun to do that and it really like broke open language and narrative as well I’m and thing of loyalty to the story it kind of three things often your the the fact itch everyone remembers things differently means that there and everything’s open for possibility as an artist and represent things you know we’re standing in front of Isaac Haas and that’s really into something quite similar to our I think you were talking to somebody and then they call and they were describing how people used to pay before lots of light pollution and things and people I well people could see in the dark before all the facts and you see all these three words on the on the square like box that’s quite a reddish color as it wasn’t Shakespeare in the time of three word slogan I think so get brexit %HESITATION nor such like that and I say cops it’s just so hard you know so there’s a paradox pieces this is there the the words are extracts is %HESITATION it feels almost not quite but it feels almost like a hi Katie where you’re trying to fix something something basic to quite tiny space on your economical selling good you know so I find out re fastened as well but it’s not just the words it’s the combination of the words and the color and the light and the sharpness I think because you’re very specific in the fonts that you choose as well so there’s a crispness to it so it’s striking but there’s no punctuation so there’s nothing to see tell the reader hi there supposed to take this and anyway you know it’s very it’s free but yet it is structured because they’re on top of each other there and the last almost and it’s it’s just just like another three class because it’s so they’re all four letter three four letter words and he Serret long enough it’s like I mean I get my ice tested all times it’s a bit like a cannon hi tests and then like what kind of process you go through T. choose the words part of the whole story and then the decisions you make with it whether it’s a rectangle shape or a square shape what color you know what a service of process is there a structure or is it intuitive you know what I mean sometimes it’s really easy to stock jumped like their eyes I Cox said the mine who you follow me I was writing notes and write notes and or a sale a lot of stuff and everything was amazing but at one point eighty I was talking very fast and it’s like really thank Donegal Donegal accent and so I could understand them like me P. five percent this time is the authentic I did couldn’t understand what he said but %HESITATION you just if you Sandra had like whatever you were talking about phosphorescence in the blog which in these weeks quella the west’s people call that night angland and the lights in the book anyway I’ve never seen and unseen and save it on the ball and I was saying like why do people not know about it you know and people it doesn’t exist I was always here so it’s always there it’s on there all the time he C. N. these people meant is that I can’t cats you just said it really clearly I came out of nowhere and I was just like oh my god this perfect man for the best thing I’ve ever heard in my life and %HESITATION that was just really easy yeah and it made sense it was like perfect for for all the different beliefs different concepts of thinking about it he said it better than I could ever say you know and then in other circumstances I’d like with the interview this morning I had loads of freezes taken out you know and it’s look looking at how they work exactly and if I decide I want to make something with text and %HESITATION I wanted to be like boxes this is like this this is the same so I knew if I wanted to make a light box that square certain words are going to fit it on this one was a replica of a sign that hung in a cafe in the road three bars cafes and then you’re wanted to make a light boxes in dimension with the same materials our inch nineteen seventies orange perspex but then the dimensions I don’t know I can’t remember what it that is it’s like two meters by three quarters of a meter or something that meant that only certain phrases with fact well you know so it’s like a graphic design really important in New hello so some decisions are made yeah you know I’m not one it is it is the darkest come again with almond says Emma yeah which is it’s a concept that she will be here when I first read doc the first thing to send me a picture of it and %HESITATION it’s also makes he sank from the target come again because it’s so again it’s very simple words simple phrasing but there is something you can take that’s much better trump because he go yes you’re right it does keep coming again but it’s the past tense I think it’s well you know when you read I mean I sort of got a English literature background is also analyzing the words and really EMT satellite itself quite interesting to me and the past tense it has come again the idea if it happened again and you know it will come again but that’s not the one that says this is a hot come again and then saw its experience show or something %HESITATION almost places G. and a position of experiencing but the darkness had come again you know there’s some reason that could apply to so many and it could be poetic it could be figured of darkness it could be all sorts of things you know loss of memory and and I suppose in a way that’s what would happen with that story it wasn’t just that it was a literal retelling of of being lost in the jungle it was that there’s probably going to be captain the memory of sock is what was real and what wasn’t because this person had this entirety individual experience in the service of the sedation involved in sight on the engine because of the situation because it was a couple of days and stuff and you know box but it’s just a fascinating thing can pick to simply make up a very old lady you know because often colored people’s and it fits so well with the neon because it stopped kind of tone is not a site kind of popping bright color almost garish UN’s gonna grab your tent yeah a lot of the big thing for me is supposed to like my subject matter is you know the coast and you know very earthy the saying the lines and then my materials are neon perspex vivid digital video and then even within individual videos I would use like send fantasizing resigns and like very crisp ships that break my footage as well but that’s all to do with like traditional figures well into I can coaches are trying to make them see things or trying to courage them to save it use and the like urban urban aesthetic and I’m also it’s a great representation like a contractor sense what it feels like to swim you know really rough weather or to to be lost in the mists and not falling into the gold it is associated with really dark fairy stories you can’t replicate that so I’m not going to even attempt to you know represented in a representational way but I can I can kind of use these materials more effectively it’s hard to describe but I mean underline everything is for me is %HESITATION kind of terror to do with that you know six climate %HESITATION day that that comes from humanities disassociation S. Adnan like disloyalty to the natural patterns and habitats all those things so I find it it’s it’s it’s it’s a problem that like most a lot of artists are having to deal with my work everyone is concerned about it not everyone a lot of people are concerned about the client and felis responsibility to make work about it and they want to make work about it because it’s like at the forefront of their minds blocks it’s so hard to eat if you’re preaching about it and taps here it just becomes boring and it’s already like dating all these ways make a market by the time it took me a moment our guests who did it so quickly so it’s just having to kind of ignorant for me this like I think they and the neon as well comes to from M. and Kelly bags and only goal it’s a fishing port in kind of very disturbing discussion black I don’t eat meat or fish but thank goodness sizes fashion phone systems are fine on it and %HESITATION so Kelly bags is a weird place for for me when I go through it if this kind of gray you know the the blackness of the same as always great beautiful you know but there’s stag you know the the railings along the harbor the stock is your car fallen energy stuff you tripped and it’s their their candidate in this extremely honest sincere holler nice okay hi this is Orange she on Iraq I just a couple years ago I went to it’s like so seductive and shock and like shock and doing laundry it’s the greatness of the environment and I I just loved it was yes adoptive I’ve just completed used by it and I saw it I mean it’s always there always painted railings red and orange and stuff but I think because of modern pigmentation you know that things there’s fluorescence is more arriving to more cheap cheaper to reproduce so I did go back and I walked ten o’clock PM to mean it was really expensive like a hundred quid or something like that for ten I’ll never get through at all if anyone wants any present or too much of it but that was our service service turning point for me you know you start using these really bright colors yeah like to it and in shock because I suppose that that’s a element is safety restraint of a terror and there’s a it’s it’s warning you know it’s there’s a warning that there could be danger here there and you’re talking about swimming in the sea and these are choppy seas and a very cold season we’re talking points so there’s going to be the inter so there’s S. carried it off pretty specs and places %HESITATION E. yeah she talks a lot about that piece it’s nature back on its my more holes through each other and she’s from Derry originally in one parent was Protestant bonus Catholic and shipping to see images also thank and you know super hot this very strange childhoods for a G. two childhood and she’s very drawn to the folks and %HESITATION losses C. swimming and stuff and talks about eight the precarity of thought this is the D. injure that’s involved the times when that’s almost part of the thrill is I’m I gonna survive the swim especially if it’s a nine member some sun it’s really immersive and Coles and but exciting there Sir it’s thrilling and it created really evoking the place three words and a you know I’m thinking and remembering reading up there when I’m seeing your images hearing you talk about your own experiences of surveying and things like that the neon orange and stuff that element to being so visceral with the land and the sea you know and it’s almost like it’s as if you more lives because of the prospect of the danger the thoughts was coming across to me at least yeah I like that edginess yeah you know so it’s very interesting that you’re talking about bringing up the list of color because it’s not for the sake of it it’s these are colors that were nearby it something more as you stand like and in the middle of a what would be considered maybe a Blake the staff you know sort of land sea scape there’s up pop of color that saying what no we actually can’t be complacent about an exit it’s a kind of %HESITATION the bodily thing is well liked in the wavy neon and light boxes have an effect on your body when you come into their space like they light spills on the floor and they see fit so %HESITATION that’s the way it what it does to rising very broadly and on the whole link to club culture and dancing in the body and all of that is simple you know important references well for me just thinking about the names of your shows this file we’re talking about works that were attached to shoes that were named things like lost not lost I cannot use of language sociology coming in their their socks make six variance I mean I always come back to this because that was a lot of my research but I think so many of us from this place you from this island from the city from this time we have some sort of geology always because you know certainly of our age being young peoples and a complex you know where it was very sectarian it was split up and it was one side against another site and that kind of thing so that it’s probably boring for people that I always come back to that but I dispense many years being in not that you know it feels like there’s no escape to even if it’s nothing to do with that but it’s the idea of this thing and you’re not saying that’s the opposite of it you know I feel like last coming three quite a lot in your work to you soon I’m just that idea of what your loss but you’re also not lost yes I will definitely I mean I I wouldn’t really think about that someone’s going to make it work but it needs to sense like and I’m I’m from %HESITATION mix March not only as well so there is dot Canaan okay Irish music but I didn’t know anything about Irish music girl went on EFC has the whole world there yeah I sort of be your fit in two different places I’m not Kennett sense of belonging when and your family being kind of separated because just of people going to England to find work you know that sort of things well unlike where I feel very rooted here but not everybody does and yeah yeah it says free faucet as well to hear but it’s not just the freedom almost at the fiddle playing his seem to prop up the bar during %HESITATION I hadn’t really come across and they hate paid their way by offering the chain before or at least you’re not and the contemporary context you’re not doing it right now I mean did that come about organically free for you high eight hi missile to this very performative you know it’s very %HESITATION present very live and then it’s hi planned this out you know is an intention or is it just %HESITATION I’ll play a song I feel if I can all right I don’t have the money although it’s not in my mind and flat trend today in reading my way and if this is right you know it takes like it’s just a battle is this amazing man really partial to like especially in Norway I think I went to a lot of residencies in Norway and when I was there you know because it’s like you’re just another person you just another artist Dan whenever you play fiddle everyone starts paying attention to you and you’re playing Irish music that everyone loves and so then people are drawn over two years and once you get all the %HESITATION it like opens up conversations with someone she you’re having conversations with people you can ask old where would I go to find we’re going to go to go for a good walk and then they’ll be like I’ll take you and then you know and then I met or yet yeah I don’t know isn’t everyone in in G. as the artist who also plays fiddle and then their interests not more than you know people can relate to music it’s like a much less Ilion N. then the art scene and it’s it’s totally social as well or as artists whose solitary so we’ll get out the post but Jen Norway like cheese I mean it was because of my music that I would have gotten to know a particular guy I ended up going out with you know through him you know we had games we started out by me gaze and then add in you know in that way more people that way and he would have brought me out in the boat and yes very or organic but and it was when I went to it when I was like %HESITATION gold like sixteen I went to the %HESITATION it’s you know it’s should we cherish already is change and when I was there I was playing classical music it was in the school of music orchestras and everything you know I didn’t I. Anne are she’s going to but when I went in there as we would go to the pub every night like it’s me isn’t your it was legal to drink as a teenager when you’re sixteen they’re worse here with eighteen days Boise’s and the Manson on them there were these songs were planned and that you were in the U. S. team and they were thank you why drover and whiskey in the jar and stuff Qatar and that is this is there is a girl from school music right recognized but she managed to obviously learn a few these songs and everyone wanted to be their friend and everyone wanted to buy them drinks yeah and I was like I have to get in we went away and they just learned things like rocks and then I got more into it but it it was then I realised the kind it open it’s like a passport or something you know it’s not like I’ve traveled like a member going to China with someone M. many years ago I remember my fiddle and no one was cast may soon you know so it it depends on the society you know wooden competition on people as well yes yes there’s a reason okay yeah it’s it’s on the relationships that I’ve dealt with people through music have a lot of people have totally like been my muses and like all the fads and all aspects of my creative attention on the experience that we are good to go for walks of people because when those people have met through music through all all I you know is there anything about eight year practice you want to talk about it that I don’t know because I I’ve come to you fairly recently you know there’s a lot I don’t know and you know hooked around in your website in things you’ve got lots of stuff there but is there anything maybe what you’re working on at the minute or anything do you feel has really emerged that surprise she knows or anything sort of about your work that I need the house and picked up on %HESITATION haven’t notified or anything that you think you’d like to talk about I don’t think so I mean it I think it’s pretty hard for me to talk about America’s really varied and yeah are quite diverse I don’t fix and that I’m not like a sculptor or video artist I do does the things like my life she was an audio installation on two big massive blown off screen print of underwater photos that it took you know they weren’t where as previously at Lowe’s he wouldn’t have known me a stand video worked out Seoul Addison really neatly it’s not easily categorized book but yeah I think yeah well we liken categorized yeah my focus is I mean maybe you do want to go over this but it might be I do may be helpful for some people you did your MFA while we were in lock dines and human at the height of the pandemic stuff I mean they can Bach on quite a bit of that no way what was out like three G. sync it brought eight actually challenges are G. sync you know the limitations actually benefits not maybe necessarily the right words but maybe some yeah it’s almost like I mean there is there is no party and no longer no exceptions I just went to college all the time it was amazing I got so focused nine it didn’t faze compromised if you know what I mean you know it didn’t I was just a fluke but then at the same time we didn’t and we were like to go in college like we we we thought we were being rolled because we could only go in from nine to five Monday to Friday another call this is everywhere or just closed yeah I’m always stand there trying to make their art in their bedrooms yeah we were it also leaves for Iraq okay and but we and we had our creek synergy showreel and you know it was quiet unfortunately a lot of people didn’t come in a lot of people were nervous and just like set up studios at home anyway share so it took if there is a better a lot of grief even up I thought realizing that you know the three people who came in every day that was kind of it we had our own sort of smaller community but you know everyone can enter their crafts and we did have our final show but no one could come in and see our final Chong surely side and it’s like you know we work the imac you’re you’re in control as the exhibiting environment the article is your you install everything yourself so I mean it you know I had this beautiful dark room and everything was pristine and exactly how I wanted it and it was really immersive and yet no one could experience it we had like video %HESITATION terrors and everything in those people attended who were not authorized you know like curators from France and France from Canada and Australians I thought for guys who it was and he is now a book NEO had to had to kind of mourning the loss of our final show which will never never be recreated again like I I mean my light box that I need for that that was just one element of this whole project that I was presented with video and audio in the darkness so don never be recreated spoke with sign yeah they’re always great craft the bank opens it yeah when I was living here and that was one of the highlights of the year was that yeah the shooting shows mmhm at the college so that’s a real shame but that’s why it like do you wanna said banning glass exhibition that’s kind of felt like for me %HESITATION %HESITATION like a the final show that I never I never had because of so we celebrate every and there’s so many people of all different ages and and it was exciting yeah yeah the muezzin yeah R. J. definitely and it was really nice inclusion you know in the light the idea of the light boxes just fit so well because there were so many thank you honest thinking was that the the rich so many like boxes for the studios in the U. TV bill them for it was that had been taken dining roommates and there is this visible absence you know this absent present so if there used to be a light box there and so to have your light boxes and that’s basic it really complimented it’s everything else that was going on and you know again this types of color because while they’re not neon we would describe those colors as neon she itself those colors you know so that if they had to flee if you find tax useful with your podcasts we’ve got two options for you you can subscribe to the audio visual cultures podcast on U. shape for captioned videos and you can visit audio visual cultures dot com and click the transcripts top both sites are linked in the show notes along with information like this episode last season I mean aspen so coast to I know you did your studio that’s so exciting do you have nieces she’d like people to go to see more about your work silly website and social stuff where people can actually see some of what we’re talking five yeah my website is season use artist dot com a lot has pretty comprehensive archive of the projects have been doing over the last few years on Oct there’s also a link to a blog or where I’ve been doing writing over I don’t ten years %HESITATION from different locations Ryan conte dying in Donegal and Norway and Iceland and then I’m on Instagram as well asked Susan Dorothy Hughes path that that’s crazy and yet do you go and tackle those like kids yeah your works very co author I am a big fan thank you so much reading this and given me so much your time and sort of first name to people’s lives a little bit it’s a mess so it’s really kind of in yeah yeah thanks thank you for

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 112 – Mercury Theatre Podcast with John Badger automated transcript

hello and welcome to audio visual cultures the podcast explores different areas of moving image and audio based production with me Paul up there I'm delighted to be speaking this time with John Bottcher of mercury theater podcast and audio drama anthology of stories written and directed by John we'll be talking about those aspects as well as sign design and working with voice actors as well as the storytelling process for thirty minute standalone dramas across different genres huge thanks to our listeners and our marvelous patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures if you would like to see the full video recording of my chat with John sign up to our behind the scenes here your support means I can make continual improvement state issue and it gives me such a basic knowing the work is being acknowledged and valued and appreciated another way to help is sharing this episode with your friends and spacing Assabet on social media thank you so much and enjoy this episode John Thatcher it is great to me she I am really looking forward to learning more about mercury theater podcast but first of all I have very warm welcome to the official cultures I feel the heat from here even though we have the the snow coming soon it is nice to be warmly welcomed I appreciate that's nice cast John hi are you to say and where but sorry I am fantastic and partially because I live in North Carolina and the United States of America we succeeded we won right but now it's a it's a beautiful location like %HESITATION I'm in the the Blue Ridge mountains so I get the the view of the mountains and we're about to get snow like I said and it's just I really like I've lived all over the US and I finally found somewhere that I can call home %HESITATION so nice to hear the snowflake a not so nice right to stars I've interviewed a few audio drama producers before and that's something I'm really enjoying learning a lot more bites so it's pretty great to have you on you know I've been learning a lot of fights the processes of writing audio dramas and the processes of directing them and that in particular I've been really enjoying expanding my knowledge on sign design I think that's a really fascinating part of this I've got a background in some studies and found analysis and that is her relation and not subject area is sign design focusing on audience Humm has such a lovely way of learning much more about it you know so that's something I would love to get in to it he later but can I just firstly Askey state campus and move if you give us some details about each mercury theater podcast and your work making it absolutely it's one of one of my favorite topics of all time so I I'm not not shy mercury theater podcast is an anthological audio drama so anthology meaning that every episode in and of itself is a story so your no matter where you start listening in mercury theater podcast you can start one that I made last month or one that I made last year and you're going to get just as much out of it as anybody else would because the story is depending on the episode it might be thirty minutes long and you start the story in the beginning of the episode and eat the story ends at the end of the by mercury theater podcast is completely done by us and the only exception is I get I get my sound effects from online for the most part but I just got myself a microphone so that I can make some of the some of the Foley artistry and I can do that on my own and it's a nice shot gun Mike can I get so ecstatic about some of the equipment that we buy and mercury theater podcast is completely done remotely in their heads I'll be over here and we'll meet on discord and we'll watch the the other actors and will recorder selves individually and will go through the episode so we'll spend a couple hours recording an episode and because were on discord and were able to record in real time that makes it so it's a much better final product because most of acting is reacting and with such a way that a lot of audio dramas are created they're not done as much in response they're just reading their lines and then they're sending in all of their lines and then somebody has to chop it up and then they get certain it's cohesive as much as possible you know one might have more of a route read and then another one might have more of a an emphatic read so you're having these different conversations that yes they work on paper but they don't actually work in feeling like it's a conversation so with discord it makes it so that I'm able to have everybody will react to one another and it makes for a much better final product if if I don't say so myself in there pretty crisp I have to say I've been listening and the sign is really crashed at you've got different points of audition you've got mace ments coming straight you've got different locations changing locations while people are made things very spaces and having cover and you can really pick up really well so he asked to hang off so you mentioned television or movies and the sound design of that it's very much the same process but as an audio drama the listener only has the ability to base it off of dialogue and sound effects and there is no visual component and that has some drawbacks but at the same time it gives a lot more freedom on my end and on the listeners and I've been finding this to be pretty consistent thing with books for instance so you might read the Harry potter books are you might read the lord of the rings Bucks or anybody and then you watch the movie adaptation of that what you read and once it goes on television on the screen then it confines what your imagination has because you see it you hear it and you know at that point really only you can just imagine what it smells like I guess at that point but with audio drama you don't have to worry about so much the the visual element because the listener gets to design what that circumstance looks like so they're imagination takes another step that they would be able to in a book but they have the sound design that helps them get drawn into the circumstance but they can build whatever else elements yeah and that the love they sing as well as you can decide what people look like because I think with some in television for example diversity can be a big issue and saying C. seventy and when it's full he says and it signed a fax you can imagine more %HESITATION what way will select for example yes so I am actually in the process of auditioning for another series that I'm making but in the process I'm realizing these people have faces right but they only have faces to me as somebody who's working with them now the listener will be able to ultimately listen to the this series and they can figure out whether she has blonde hair or you know if she has her at all there all these different elements that people can design for themselves but with working with social media I'm finding that it's requiring me to get some that visual elements right so I'll have the series but also promote the actors themselves so that might be a little bit disheartened because I mean how many podcasts do you listen to and you just assume what they'll look like or or radio show I don't know if you've ever heard the term a show prairie home companion but that was a show that was on in P. are all the time only every %HESITATION Saturday night right and I've listened to it and I create a mental image of what the main actor garrison Keillor looks like and then I saw a book that he had written on my side the cover photo and I was like oh no it's incredibly disappointed that's the first thing that was the glass shattering moment for me and I was like but it didn't remove that magic of what they are accomplishing it just's an obstacle there is in merry he didn't expect that fiesta go without voice or something we'll also and if I spent a couple years listening to him and I didn't have a face to make a an actual picture then it's it's different but yeah you do the same with a bunch of voice actor it's more with other podcasts and then you realize what they look like then and it kind of breaks that that image for you but you can go back to imagining whatever it is that you wanted them to look like especially as voice actors because they are after all acting in C. mentioned it's an anthology series so every story Stephan mangy find that real challenge writing a different type of story every time no both those are all of that is there are benefits to writing an anthology and that if I just feel like writing something if I just come up with an idea I can make it into an audio drama and I don't have to worry about it lasting a whole season or multiple seasons I can write something and it be thirty pages long and then once that's done it's done so I can have this whole whole process of of going through the wanting to make something to making it putting out there and then going back to something else and if I look at all of I probably have ten different episodes that are in the works of being written right now but I might come up with an idea tonight and then write an entire episode before I put any of those other ten out because it's something that I can do whenever I want to but the drawbacks there are drawbacks to writing an anthology in that the listener can get engaged with the storyline for that thirty minutes of an episode by day you don't feel attached to that character or any of those characters right so I'm in the process of creating a series that isn't a logical you can listen to episode one two three four five and on on and then every episode you don't know this but you're becoming more attached to the characters and then when a character does something that you disagree with you can be disappointed it with that person right but with an anthology and only thirty minutes minutes investment your not as inclined to be disappointed so there are drawbacks to writing an anthology but it's certainly not the ability or the inability to come up with more stories I'm not short on content it's just a I'm short on time that's what I'm short on answers saying do you think it's a grind for experimentation because maybe more so so than in traditional tax publishing you have a bit of the way to the I suppose make some mistakes or things if you realize that things maybe don't work so well and then you can figure out how to you it just sayings or tweak things or you think will my strength sinus pain this is part of it these are parts where right I need to hone my skills in these parts you know it's different aspects of that you do you think that you have that freedom of experimentation a bit more if I didn't listeners don't go back to episode one of mercury theater podcast so I've actually been referring to mercury theater podcast as my playground and I can do that experimentation at first I didn't know what I was doing at all I really just wanted to get into voice acting and I figured making a podcast would be an opportunity to do that and if any listeners have been have listened to mercury theater podcast all knows that you probably don't even recognize my voice at all and is because I'm not on here as much and the reason why is because I found that my passions actually were more in tune with the stuff that I wanted to pawn off on other people like the directing and the writing and the sound design all of these things that I got really excited about and the voice acting is something that you know I will make an appearance every so often I'm kind of like I refer to myself as sometimes the the Stan Lee of audio drama in the end and I'll show up every so often yeah the experimentation is something that if it wasn't for experimentation I certainly wouldn't be where I am now and working on a series as well and because I've been able to experiment with mercury theater podcast I can find out what my capacity is what I can and cannot do now I can put this into an audio drama series and have have it so that you're not going to have a really big difference between episode one and episode three which with mercury theater podcast you would be able to notice the night and day difference between episode one and episode three but between the episodes my ten and thirteen there isn't as much of a of a jump because I'm down I'm now to the point where I can hone my skills you mentioned there that because you try and keep them quite tight to thirty minutes and they're different story every time there's not necessarily that much space to flush out your characters it's not something you work on with the voice actors a senior you you write what needs to happen for your lost and to they help you flashlight the characterizations but Mario I did some work for you the characters aren't incredibly fleshed out but with the episodes that have fewer characters you can get to you understand their reasoning more so I have an episode that I'm recording tomorrow that it's just two people and those two people you get to understand where they stand with their perspectives right and there's an episode of one that I actually am I'm still very proud of one of the first ones that I was really proud of was D. N. for Denver International Airport and that was a really fun one and the reason why one of the reasons why is because there are essentially two characters and one leads the other one and explains a bunch of stuff and you get to understand what what's going on so with the voice actors will do essentially a cold read and get to find out what their characters are doing what they're trying to accomplish but as I don't go so far as to say okay this is who your character is this is your motivation not all the time so now there are certain times when I will say for a certain scene okay so your character is being elusive so be elusive but at the same time like telling whatever right so it's seen my scene at that point but where is the series and this is one of the most exciting parts about making the other series is that we'll go through the entire first season and everybody will understand who their character is and what their goal is and you know they'll have those character arcs that I I don't have the ability to with the anthology if you're enjoying the show and would like more information straight to your inbox head over to audio visual culture style wordpress dot com linked in the show notes and sign up to our mailing list I was wondering as well abrasion on rent the kids from the episodes I've listened to you and then scrolling dying three a lot of them you're touching on a lot of different genres I think you know there's some crime there's mystery there's smithy thriller there's historical drama you know there's lots of different kinds of stories being told is it again an exploration of what's your water the possibilities of genre and what you can accomplish and not in thirty minutes you know what how do you feel about that so for me I really enjoyed being able to do that because it is whatever it is that I I want to at the present time but with you know a lot of anthologies they'll stay thematic rain so they might have a horror theme so all of the stories are different but they still fall on that or aspect same with with any theme for an anthology but with mercury theater podcast it's just completely different every time and some more listeners might not love an episode right but they'll be able to skip off to the next episode and really enjoyed that episode now for me I'm just writing whatever comes to my mind right so I'm using this again as my playground and getting familiar with the process but at the same time also figuring out what it is that I enjoy writing and I do have some very old time radio investigation kind of episodes or some you know like you said there are all these different themes bye I'm finding that I enjoy a certain type of writing but at the same time I'm not held to like I would you can't put mercury theater podcast in a box that's one of the things that I like about it but the same time I know that there are probably listeners who listen to the F. as in not knowing what they're going to get they find that they're not as inclined to listen to the next episode I mean at the end of the day it's my podcast and that is the bottom line of indie podcasting is I can do whatever I want that's the point of this yeah that's really really interesting because I don't know how much freedom writers here maybe in more industrial settings in terms of writing for media and somebody so for television example there may be just hired they have to do it I have to J. M. so it's really ready and saying that you've called freedom to make this decisions but also it's the creative impulse really I think is what you're exploring as well and also from the from the sound designer perspective I'm actually giving myself an extra challenge as opposed to making it somatic say for instance television show so %HESITATION have you seen the show house no but I know of it okay and I just picked house out of it as in no reason there is for instance they have their set right at the studio they have their status and then they can go there are several different levels to the set but how much it costs to actually produce it is much lower because they only have to work within that set right not every so often they'll go off location and then go do something else but that's a very far and few between but with you know to a much smaller extent with sound design so with sound design I have to create a scene right for the listener so I might have like birds chirping in this outdoor setting but I'm I also have another setting where there is a vacuum cleaner running in and I have all these different sound effects but if I have a series then I don't have to work so much on the bird sound effects I can just work on the vacuum cleaner sound effects because every so often you're going to run into that vacuum cleaner like as you're going through I'm just again pulling things out of the hat but that sound is lying is much much more freeing with mercury theater podcast but it's also something that you have to do a lot more investigation to get those sound effects and everything and that's one of the things that I'm excited and and I also bummed about with universe twenty five the upcoming series is that I I can have some consistency and I don't have to draw from all of these different places for all of the sound effects it's going to be something that there's going to be this it's the matic I know I totally just ramble there but you know it was great because %HESITATION that's the sort of thing I mean really open to learn about it actually because when you're when you're saying that I think especially with the location changes because I listen to your most recent episode and it's a bit of a murder mystery and Sam you know their investigators Sir there's that scene where two investigators I think are having a conversation as they walked through a corridor so it's quite accurately and there's actually six steps and then they answer the office of another character and then suddenly date signed as much more soft and there's no wacko anymore you know so it's small things like that help you imagine they're setting and help you visualize right the kind of the location you know as you're you're not saying very clunky dialogue of going well let's just go into this room nice LA and adding the signed a fax do you got for you which is a very show don't tell thing and send them that as well so it's a very lesson don't tell saying it as what you're doing in your sign design I love that show don't tell I'm I know that that's you know you didn't just make that up but that's so so very much what I do I do if you listen to the audio dramas of yester year right now I know that in the U. K. they have they've consistently haggling BBC four has been the audio dramas right and you guys never stopped we kind of jealous of that but with audio dramas there are a lot of that say oh he has a gun or there's one I think it's from the show %HESITATION have gun will travel which is one of those really old shows but they're supposedly in the scene there are people in a car and they're being haunted by some woman right or like chase by someone then and one guy says he's when is that ever going to be dialogue at least in real life like winds anybody going to say that and I try to make sure that everything that is said in mercury theater podcast is stuff that's likely to actually be sad sometimes in that same episode there is like for instance the one of the girls vapes right and you hear it by this then he refers to like don't paper on me right this is stuff like there's no audio cue but there's also that dialogue reinforcement of what it is that you just heard but it's not Hey I see that vaping your hand you should probably put that in your pocket it's dialogue that I I intend to make so that it sounds as realistic as possible there's nothing worse than audio drama than having to link having made get yourself re engaged to audio drama that because they're saying stuff that just wouldn't actually be set in war I love this so that he can see and creates M. some eight takes as well and some just chatter amongst your cast out with you and your cast and the production process and it's quite revealing but it's also quite fun why why do you say to those going back a little bit and the couple minutes of and that is that there is at the end of in the credits right all of the people say their own name and their character and you get to hear what their voice actually sounds like because sometimes they'll do something that that is totally different than their actual voice it's far and few between but it is fun to listen to so going back to the episode B. E. N. that one there is a voice actor Angelo Cruz who has an on Nazeem voice what an amazing voice he plays the role of probably somebody it middle aged man he's twenty one one in the episode but he has such a deep veering crest vocal it sounds amazing but when he says has so and so I'm Angelo careers and then you hear what they actually sound like great and then going into our takes the reason why I did that was actually partially because one I wanted people to know what they sounded like but also it's an homage to the show let's pretend that was also an anthology back in the day I listen to that as a kid absolutely love that and they would say I I always remember civil trend was one of the the consistent voice actors on there so they would say there is their name but with the out takes I enjoyed out takes and I just find highlights within that and I'm already having to work with those outtakes regardless so I figured I just put them at the back of this the episode and then find my favorite ones and then put those in there the favorite ones that I can put on there yeah okay %HESITATION mercury theater podcast is actually designed to be listened to by children in addition to their parents I say that it's it's written or created for adults and then edited with kids in mind right I found that family friendly usually means that it's for the kids but parents might find something that might be enjoyable about it and I kind of went the other way around and made it so that kids can listen to it and not be offended but it's really to get the adults happy about it there's some people who just don't like swearing and a lot of stuff they rely heavily on swearing as the way that they put out stuff but I I don't like to do that not with our universe twenty five is gonna be a little bit different in that regard it's going to be much more adult centered so university five what might people be able to expect from not woody planning for that one then can you tell us yet yeah there are some friends who thousand years in the future these friends find an artifact that was from a thousand years prior which if you do the math it's about right about now it was it was left by Dave finds that it goes against what they have come to understand as reality and they use this artifact and try to spread the information that the artifact represents that's kind of a jumping off point it's gonna be a lot of fun some people think of it as probably science fiction but it's not really meant to be science fiction it's kind of just I've been trying to put some what it's like and I realize that really I can't find a whole lot of stuff that it's very much like now like Fahrenheit four fifty one is a book that I've been told might have some similarities and there are some other %HESITATION have you ever seen breaking bad okay right yeah it'll have some breaking bad element to it but in that group getting attached to the characters right and then you're wondering at what point do they devolved into when you stop being their friend right and there's a lot of emotional investment that I'm I'm hoping to accomplish with this but at the same time you know asking questions that people are dealing with today and I'll have to leave it at that there's just so much the that's going on with it I'm so excited about it but I don't really know how to I haven't actually tried to put it into words in that concise elevator pitch what it is but I don't have to yeah yeah so do you have an idea when you'll be able to release that one then so we're in the casting process right now and because it's going to be a lot easier to actually create the sound design it'll be a lot faster of a process but at the same time I'll still be putting out mercury theater podcast and have to record it can and doing all of the recording next month but with the snow storm it might actually put us into March and it'll probably be out in may I'm thinking but don't hold me to it could come out in August or November is a well whenever whenever it's ready weekend read twenty two we can based whatever every great I'll really yeah well good luck with the production of it signs and treating thanks if nothing else it will be intriguing I'm loving the writing of it partially because it is a series right and I can go from episode one that'll be pretty mild and then index celebrates as the series goes on but at the same time I can write stuff and I can write theory into stuff that happened or will happen with the environment with the characters and their stuff that still I wrote something a couple days ago and like that would be amazing you know because I've already written it but I realize that their stuff that has the potential of being before all of it even starts that would completely change the environment that's going on so I kind of accidentally blow my own mind maybe the listener won't be as excited when they find out about it but you know for me as a as a writer it's so fun to be able to excite myself and to find find stuff that still still really interesting and %HESITATION with mercury theater podcast it's only thirty minutes and now granted if you look at the thirty minute episode of mercury theater podcast and sometimes is like twenty three minutes or whatever for each minute of final product you're looking at about a page of dialogue but with with a screenplay for a movie it's actually going to be kind of the same but most of the only probably half of the writing is actually into explanation as to the screen like where the camera is like it's panning over the city scape or whatever I don't have that ability as an audio drama creator so if you actually put the dialogue of my episodes to the dialogue of a movie it's certainly not one to one and it's much higher be much closer to like %HESITATION probably a fifty minute creation as far as dialogue to like if it was a movie it would be about the equivalent of fifty minutes but it's something that I found interesting when I was a I don't know if you ever do this but if you look at the screen play of a moving as you're watching the movie and like reading along with the dialogue and seeing all of the stuff I was surprised at how short those water and I have now written with universe twenty five something that's longer than this and it's actually going to be probably two and a half hours of season one that's a fun thing to be able to look at before I actually put people in front of a microphone something to look forward to then on the on the audio drama sphere and we're curious if I cast it's a monthly afterwards so %HESITATION keep mind listening to that of course I do enjoy the variety of not have to say you're really getting into the different stories I was just thinking as she heard her talking there is files that you know you mentioned that you record everything remote they so I mean that's has worked right fairly well over the past couple of years I'm guessing this is something he started during this some strange time that we've been in for the past couple of years purposes something you retain before I did actually started this during Copeland so I was actually my %HESITATION my wife was on was on holiday as you would say and she was across the country visiting family and I was bored and I figured I could just redesign my my spare bedroom so I did that and she came home and she was not happy nobody's ever in here by R. awhile for sure he has so I made it so there is a soundproofed areas that I'd be able to do recordings that's not where I am right now but it's it's over there I should probably be more respectful of people every so often %HESITATION and do that yeah so I did that but with with the other voice actors most of them actually are in theater and they were kind of missing the that theater experience so I kind of unintentionally made myself a conduit that people could actually find themselves doing something that they enjoy doing and it's a lot of fun to actually make an episode of mercury theater podcast but you know that's one of the things that I'm going to be changing with universe twenty five is that I'll actually have that one and that one will be in person as opposed to being virtual and that's going to be I'm so excited about that process because it'll be more of the same but at the same time it's something that's different and people can respond to each other's like visual element even though the listener isn't going to see that visual they're going to hear there's more excitement when people are standing up in front of a microphone as opposed to sitting down in front of a microphone and to break that glass people might have so mercury theater podcast is mostly acted sitting down and I want people to get when physical grain so instead of a running scene that sounds like this they'll actually get involved in the long run in place without lifting their feet if that doesn't get confusing too much in that physical element is going to put it to yet another level and funny enough so mercury theater podcast has been I don't know if you're familiar with the audio verse awards but a bunch of audio dramas will submit an apposite of various two audio verse awards and then they will don't judge it right there were over seventeen hundred applicants for this year in audio first awards and we actually got nominated amongst the top ten for vocal directing gradient yes and I again that goes back to people having somebody to respond to if you listen to a bunch of audio dramas you'll realize that the conversation is stilted and I try to eliminate that as much as possible but if I can do that with being virtual how much more so can I do being in person so I'm excited about that the funny thing is I have no no directing experience whatsoever before all of this well take it yeah episode one hundred of our podcast was wastes both of them more and he said an audio drama producer right now away and does a lot of Toorak saying I'd recommend seat actually to listen said my top with him because he talks a lot about exactly what you just been talking about it and working in space with doctors so that they're actually standing around in a circle and they're interacting with each other and trying to get performances side of people actually getting in T. embody that performance you actually walk across and then shut something up that guy because it's not coming up with you pretending to date just actually doing it you know what that sort of stuff so he's really a sell to us and she's very very experience so that men actually should write a book and I've seen a lot of his post so we're in actually a couple of the same groups on Facebook he puts out a lot of information essentially the the author of today's audio dramas KC Wayland wrote the book bombs always beep and that guy is amazing well as I actually had the ability to have a conversation with KC Wayland and there's an episode of us talking it's just that being willing to learn and being willing to change your actions accordingly because sometimes somebody will get a bad habit and then they'll stick to it and if somebody is able to say Hey you should probably do this maybe do that and then if you do that then you have the potential of growing violence the best way to make no progress is by doing the exact same thing that you've been doing I've read bombs always beat cover to cover probably three times it has a bunch of highlighting and a bunch of notes that I've put on there I actually need to read it again because I've gotten to add another level and it's something that no matter where you are in the production you can always learn more from it his book was actually probably an eighth the size that it probably should be because there's so much more information that could be given but I can't imagine somebody would want one backhand but being like it's a really really good resource but Bo Lamar should should write one as well yeah really informative there's a lot of free tickets this was an advice you can take it as a price and and not upset it did for them and I just mine's just filled with and pets not to hate this creates a be a lovely saying it's something else that's never gonna happen I don't think that if the I love the idea to stay if you ever K. it would be the like says life recordings I think with mercury theater GM he ever thought of thoughts that may be a far off future saying you are you can have a say in a pub or something or I remember I said that if an audience even a small one and have your actors in the same place yes and because I know they're all all over the place but just sent in a dream scenario you know base it's a fun thing to say would be to have like a life audience I receive with your actors a very fun yeah so I mentioned home companion little bit of go home companion was one of those shows that I believe they traveled and they would go to different theaters and they would have their performance and every week is something different but they had some of this definitely some of the same elements and there's one this gauge that they were just there to go back to and I was Dino are private right I really really enjoyed that because you get the sound effects and everything like the shoes the people walking there was somebody that was a Foley artist he had issues in his hands and he was making those walking sound effects and then you have on the door creaking and all that stuff all of that stuff is on stage and there are these these voice actors who are doing all this stuff every week if I could I absolutely would the problem is there isn't enough time in the day to get all of the stuff that I want done so an episode of mercury theater podcast if you go back far enough you can like D. N. or Nikki sketch and those those episodes really early on those were actually taking me about a hundred twenty hours to produce in sound design that's not even including the acting and the writing that was just the sound design it's a lot of time now and this time M. as progress as I've honed my skills I can now get an episode thirty minute episode done in about thirty hours so if you think about that I'm touched me about an hour and minutes which is still kind of a lot but in addition to that I'm also doing the universe twenty five which is a series of %HESITATION now tack on another I think it's going to be about eight episodes in tack on another eight episodes or sounds a hundred fifty pages or something yeah it's a hundred fifty pages to add on to that put in a live setting there is not enough time in the world take him to get all that stuff done but if I had my what I I've heard referred to as my druthers right if I had my druthers I would actually get to the point where I I can pass mercury theater podcast on to somebody else and say this is yours take care of it right I would still have some say in say maybe try something different or whatever but I definitely would see myself having hands off thing with that but fixating on stuff like universe twenty five and potentially going into live I've definitely even scouted out a really small community theater I was like Hey that would be a place that if once a month or something that I would have like an audience and have people interacting with the voices that would be a lot of fun yeah nice maybe some day yes there is a there is not enough time in the world I just I'm just I just had a little Mandarin my imagination there no I love it and this is actually a conversation that I've heard and I've had this now on a on a few occasions and it's because it is a really good idea it's just it's the implementation and right getting all those elements to work and currently in this environment there's fully artistry that I want to do I want to make it so crowd work but the problem with the crowd work right now in this world is it's hard to do because one you're either risking people's health more two you're getting the muffled masking and everything or you know go the step further and goes for a third and then you have maybe a hundred people in front of a hundred different microphones are one microphone and just have them kind of cycle through but that's not going to have the same element that a crowd would you're getting just that really small again going back to acting and reacting in a crowd of people are using other people as they're gauge for how excited or how mellow they need to be if I had a crowd I would be able to do that but want to get rid of this whole code thing I mean I and then be able to get people back into our room and not have to worry about masks muffling the sound that they would be giving otherwise it occurs to me that I hadn't asked G. as there is significance to the mercury theatre %HESITATION I was a really big fan of old time radio most of everything they do one way or another is an homage to previous endeavors and Orson Welles have you ever heard war of the worlds the audio production so that was done by Orson Welles and now is mercury theatre on air so he had his theater which was mercury theatre and then they would also do the audio dramas so it's an homage to Orson Welles and his works very nice love it is there anything we haven't touched on that you ready open to talk about eight I want to talk about all things I could DO IT %HESITATION drama for ever and ever and ever and still want to go to the next person and still do the same thing I love the whole process just everything that's involved with that but now I think that all of the %HESITATION all of the stuff we went over do you have any other people's idea dramas that you listen to that you think people should know about anything oh my goodness yes okay kind of self serving but if you go into mercury theater podcast and go into the with the extrapolations their interviews that I've had with a bunch of audio drama creators I have spoken to like I said to KC Wayland I spoken to governor eller Vienna he created while three fifty nine and unseen but it's the any audio dramas I'm the most excited about because it's people who are like me who don't have they're not working with the highest names impacting right SO Casey Whalen he cheats he's able to work with Laurence Fishburne and with lavar Burton and all of these other actors that the in the drama of creators aren't able to but they're putting out stuff that they're extremely passionate about and the first one that comes to mind is the vanishing act and that's amazing definitely an adult audience but fun adult audience that's amazing then the call of the void that's the audio drama as well and I've spoken to both the producers from both of those and there are a few more I actually have on my website a list of audio dramas that people should listen to you and they are definitely among them but I love audio dramas people because they're excited about being able to put out something that I'm also excited about putting them but they have their own unique styles and you know with the vanishing act that was done mostly remotely for the second season but for the first season they put it or or the second half of the first season they did remotely but they still did it in such a way where is kind of live by it they have theater backgrounds and then call of the void they actually know the vanishing acts people and I did not know this but as they meet all of their %HESITATION stuff they did kind of that's what I was telling you is stilted and and you know they would have their their dialogue and then somebody else is dialogue just keep on putting that but they did it in such a way that they were able to have somebody respond to them right so they were able to use the other people's mannerisms so that it that it was all cohesive and all these different directing processes that are that are going on right now with you because of it being a thing it's really creative how how people are coming out with content and not losing what they built okay great just some not then so those are a few things we can put in the show notes and links take you wanna say about your website and any socials you want to point people towards sure so first and foremost the website and all of the socials and everything and you can contact me if you wanted to %HESITATION via email that's on there so me personally I'm John S. badger on Twitter or I am all the socials you can find mercury theater podcast on Twitter Facebook just it's actually a really big time stock is all the socials I I'm sure you can use all about it it's like somebody else will get on there for fun and I'm just on there to to get the word out let people understand what it is that I'm I'm doing but at the same time not being like a salesman right it's five but yeah %HESITATION mercury theater podcast dot com mercury's deter deter spelled either way I got both of the domains and things it is spelled are easy if you were wondering about the actual spelling I did it the right way yeah they say it's a thought okay %HESITATION very casual John Barger and has been such a pleasure I've really enjoyed our conversation I hope you got something out of it SO I'll spend really great to see your enthusiasm is welcoming sherry Spencer enjoyable yeah the enthusiasm isn't something that's going away anytime soon I got into this about a year and a half ago and got really excited about it and as time has progressed I've only got more excited about it it's just now I'm figuring out a lot more of the old one people don't like to geek out a whole lot but still like okay it's a podcast but it's not it's it's an audio drama it's like yeah yeah is on a whole other level podcasts can be pretty accurate to me have to force was pretty good ones this one this is a great way yeah it's putting thirty hours of post production and to adjust to admins on the facts and everything just take people out of their head space and put them into a storyline ends thank you so much for sharing all of that with this this is exactly the place to come if you want to get going to bite stuff we love a whole heap a kicking I John audio visual culture so you're welcome back anytime thank here it's been an absolute pleasure really has been
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 110 – Diversity in Tech and Media with Damion Taylor automated transcript


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and though you're very welcome and see another audio visual cultures this is a podcast where we hope can poke and the Nixon crannies of media arts and all things cultural production I'm your host Paula Blair and I am really delighted to present this conversation today with Damian Taylor he does lots of software's loads again in this episode me and the team and has been using his vast experience and the technology industries to find creative solutions three storytelling to address gaps in representation and media and tech industries and you'll hear a love bite this in the episodes were gonna talk about Damien's podcasting particularly his series tak which of which he is the creator and co writer and we're gonna talk about aids Ludovic different experiences and it's a really lovely conversation I know you'll get a lot idea for this ninety S. so before I pass over to the my past self and Damien a massive sign Kate are amazing patrons over it PhD on dot com forward slash AP cultures for supporting the podcast it really means a lot that you keep supporting the show and may making asked if anyone else listening is interested and getting some extra content on some early releases we've called a special behind the scenes here and there's by PT Sierra which would just help maintain the podcast and help keep improving everything and give me something for it to work that IT making this show because I don't have ads on the show and I'm to turn amends to keep it that way however I am very happy T. T. and kind thoughts with us our podcasts so if anyone's listening and you're interested in that sort of thing yep I've got a little thirty second ads so %HESITATION just separate and see one of your shows and I'm very happy to do the same on a more fun notes I don't do it very often because it's a bit scary but I occasionally that casts a cast on the lead X. for the show and I think I have started to enjoy concentrating more on what countries were being unloaded and and Belgium keeps coming back on top by I don't know what it is but hello Belgium Bonjour you're so welcome I love the people there listening to the show or at least I'm hoping it's whether you're listening or not who knows that you're consistently coming right up of the UK and the U. S. so %HESITATION well done yay I'm just so excited to have you on board space to get in touch I'd love to hear people %HESITATION lesson from and to learn about why you're listening %HESITATION that would be amazing I'm gonna stop bothering you because I just enjoy it so much chatting with Tammy and I really enjoy listening to his podcast C. makes another podcast called professional confessions I really recommend because we talk about it it's come up in the podcast before that we've dealt way stocks are twenty hole and Rachel Breck we've talks about a toxic workplaces and abuse in workplaces and that sort of thing before so professional confessions is actually a really pretty helpful podcast listen to there's only a few episodes so far it's pretty quite a so please stay make sure you go in like in the show notes below where third links for all of these things for night enjoy this time with Damien he's brilliant Damien Taylor here so welcome J. audio visual cultures I've been really excited to talk she said Jeremy attend school and talks last week and your exactly Hey I wanna talk say on the spot so if you're so welcome thank you for joining me I thank you so much I'm so flattered I was really excited yeah so if it's okay can I start by asking you hi are you are you doing okay and where a bite sorry of course of course I'm doing great I'm enjoying this unseasonably warm fall that we're having and I'm going to Los Angeles so very odd Paul it's been it's forty degrees today eighty degrees tomorrow and Ben Rainey and the sun is out you're melting so these are but I'm enjoying it approximations okay he had over in the stylist rose of autumn where I am and you cast upon talking very cold I'm very dark so yeah and some enjoying the brightness of your screen while my son darkness so damn man I have been really enjoying lasting three year different call casts and read now on all your work thank you Jenna cross different media you have a real emphasis on addressing the lack of diversity across different media I'm sure we'll talk about it a lot of those issues we can I assign a lot of talk for people and pets so I'm really keen to hear about your your faction scripted podcasting as well as your nonfiction podcast saying I am missing a lot see professional confessions and I %HESITATION there when he was Olivier I don't race some really really getting a lot of thoughts but first seat would you be happy to describe your style and give us an overview of he Damien Taylor is what you're all about aids and the kinds of things that you're working on sure it's funny so I'm probably the most bizarre creative you'll ever need to so I I started off doing medicine and science and for my career yeah and so coming into I've always played in both creative and very scientific spaces and most people don't do that and I I get bored if I don't have both of those elements going on in my life at some point and so I have always approach everything from this perspective when I worked for major studios and when I work at studios I'm usually the date a guy who's building the strategy for which films to redo what audiences we want to go to what channels you want to use but by that same token I was moonlighting as a photographer and editor of the magazine currently working in studios and so I've always played in both of those counts and I take it awhile but I've been able to bring both of those things to bear into my creativity now I I can use data to help inform my created and that's really it's not that I'm not paint by numbers sort of creativity I have an idea but I never really fully know if it's something that's interesting to anyone else or is it just something that I can see and so I usually use data and test it out and see does anybody else like this depending on the the response then I'll try your choice which projects they work on first and yeah so I have to say geek with a creative soul I love flat nerves are very very welcome on this that's a good place to be yeah because I think on your website is that you say scientific methods for content it's not the kind of thing %HESITATION gotten into yeah yeah that's definitely their probes I take for a lot of the creative is finding out why do people like it that's the thing that really makes me happy even in my career I've always always been around sort of taking things apart checking out what makes it work and so getting to the crux of what discipline enjoyed about this movie this TV show this short video this photography whatever it is and then deconstructing that sometimes taking out everything that's of course was just distilling it down to about one thing classrooms into making my life so much simpler because I realize that a lot of extra layers did you and it feels very bind up and technology as well and hi much of part of our lives signee technology is and I think we're talking very modern technology and computers to digital and extra absolutely definitely I mean it's when I think about what a lot of people have told me throughout my career especially other creative sense I always go to my god I don't like to use data battle his way my creativity and I actually disagree with that very strong because our god is data it's a small data sets in a combination of all of our experiences and the things that we've learned and it impacts or they have or haven't had and we take that I mean we formulate that ones in district work based on all those experiences and so what I like to do is take my seat well I have the small dataset which is my experience how universal is that experience or is there a bigger audience if I just look at it as a way of supplementing that instinct that we have which is in essence a collection of data points collected throughout life hi are you in what ways are you channeling that and then into your more creative like pets night because I'm probably thinking mostly your podcast tak which which is in its second season and I saw today that there is work under way on an animated pilot for the past two weeks very excited yeah I've never been in the role of animation I've always wanted to but now finally get your enemies this is super exciting tech which is probably the perfect example of this is unique process that I I I like to use for creativity yet it was an idea that I had so going back to my main you're done I love fantasy club started by and I wouldn't able I was also watching I don't remember as I was watching something it may have been a doctor who episode or something in my head wanted to figure out I wonder if there's a way to make something that's both sides by fantasy I would be the perfect series for me and just through that process in my head I came up with which is to control technology would be and thus the idea was born but I didn't know if I was the only person who bought %HESITATION it was you know something more universal so that when I actually remember I I talked to a couple for you're working on a production together and I dropped the idea just kind of casually Hey you know what I just think it would be kind of cool yeah vehicle one was over okay I'm gonna ask a couple more people and they they kind of said the same thing and I figured well I should probably do some more testing because this is also my circle of friends and we all seem to think so and so I actually did I went to our guide to Facebook pages and we have one that's all of our content I went to the digital compendium H. and I could have been added Jack I had some help design a poster for a whole lot line and everything in a campaign as it was coming out tomorrow coming soon check out tech which I see if you want to be interested and literally overnight our page went from nine hundred dollars to eleven thousand and what happened and the people I love this is would be great register something so we decided to check which and it was initially I wanted to do an animated from the start the brand of music label partner who was going to work with us and for me music is really really important through everything I mean it's it's a big part of my creative process even in doing photography I usually start with music and the sound can be removed and then how do I bring that to light is only so I could use a cable is a perfect partner for doing this and then call me laid off eighty percent of the team and had no more money in my business partner and I and the writing team we're just trying to figure out what what do you do if no one's paying for this podcast we don't need much money to do it we can reroute the scripts and so that's what we did it started building it out that way and then we realized it was a perfect way to hone the story and tested out and build an audience before we did anything animated anyway I'm not was so such a frequent process I think most radio so many shows that way sank off the US television shows they started off as a radio serials so yeah that really works I mean if it's not broke why fix it we could go exactly and it is very visual when you're listening to it I find I was listening to the some of this is this morning and I think between both the speech and music you're seeing a world your world is kind of coming to life in your minds you know so I think it is really a access you you're ready picturing the characters I think because sorry I forgot the name of your narrator he's he's reading the stories okay okay and then not set and she's great at performing their dialogue of the character she noticed you so you start to actually flashlight these different people here and having conversations and things you know so it does feel very good you know and the artwork for it is very sad that so you can start to imagine it maybe as an animation so that's ready to go it was amazing I remember we were looking for voice over talent and I was thinking of going after all these actors and we're gonna have to do this big production %HESITATION and writing partner trade well why don't we just have a narrator leader like an audio drama comes on board with that because for me it meant it was cheaper to make and so I was really excited and I started looking I couldn't find anyone J. that happen to be one of my grade school friends her husband's cousin and she's all over my my my husband's cousin is staying with us for a couple weeks and she does voice over do you want to talk to her in my head I was thinking chore okay your husband's cousin and I spoke to her and she said just send me the first two days of the script and I just read them into recording for you for free that we can get a sense for my boys Asian so I did it and she read it and she brought all the characters to life in the sounded like different people even though it was just her voice in that moment I said forget it I'm not talking to anyone else no more auditions you have it this is great she's been amazing she's been such an amazing part of it she remembered around the writing process just to how would we bring this to life what do you think about this she has such amazing insight and I really like that we can now collaborate as a team hold their purses for segmenting and passing things off %HESITATION that finds underfoot systems a great process I mean it's one of those things are sometimes nepotism con work which is really wrong %HESITATION no I somebody so good and she's a singer choose at some point I'd love to into this year is but she's just so professional in such a brought recommendations and tricks that I never even thought of to bring and %HESITATION and she even made suggestions and really early on she was so incredibly respectful she said well I know that these are your words and it's really important so I don't overstep my bounds if it's okay with you can I make a suggestion and she was very accurate said no it should be completely fine but I've course you would let me know how and she's been amazing just hoping to stay grounded and even rising to the challenge right through a couple extra characters I I think one time I did for like five characters in the same scene and she's all you for doing that to you but I really enjoyed it because now I have these characters and their goal is not different in this scene because I'm the only person hello this is that it be helpful then if we can't actually tell people what we're talking about we're talking about the story this is true so tech which is a story about two twins local emerging Matthew who discover that their families it's been thought that their family just doesn't help matters that are kind of magical and then they discovered that that's not actually the fulfillment of a prophecy it's unlocked and their twenty first birthday where they discover that they can control nature like other which is but they can also control manipulate technology and so it's interesting to see their journey going from accepting the fact that they were critical magical does J. accepting the fact that now that they are the super powerful which is that kind of outside everyone and how they deal with that struggle but it's also interesting that what we'll see later is and this is way later in the this year's that there's this interesting conversation of is technology so different from each artist major different from technology to Berkshire becomes something that's different select biotechnology for example it will start to look at that it just it really fun and I'm white and I suppose I need there's a little touch of family drama and they're lots of family drama brothers and sisters by being that he is just so I'll holdings today goes with a during life out and at the same time by the way you happen to have these new powers and get I suppose that mode of storytelling I mean you told us about the creative process and I was quite she acts by our circumstances and lately but also are there any other E. Ms waste that method of storytelling is there anything else you're trying to address through the tech quick stories yeah that's what I do this I'm trying to do this with all of the stories and series that we bring out is I really want to be able to highlight diverse voices but not in a way that so egregious and I think other even creates more division so often I think you'll like it what happens is you'll get something in it if the main character is black it's going to be named black something so you know I mean my opinion is we have our eyes we know that we don't need you to tell us right instead of focusing on the universal nature of our community the job that they're expressed an ad experiences are different but the underlying reactions and emotions are the things that we all share I think a lot of times it doesn't happen it's I wanted to make sure that I could do that my story so what you'll see is intact which you don't hear anything about their race specially the first season we didn't even put visuals relate to them on purpose so that people can imagine how they wanted them to be but we included total himself or realistic to life so you would know what this character is going through so if you were somebody who had a similar experience you would know that if you're someone who didn't you wouldn't be locked out you wouldn't feel it you couldn't understand what was happening I think a great example is low in the arcade he's playing there's two this won't give anything away for you wouldn't listen but there are two guys at his school who have been picking on him for ever and so they're they're just basically believing him and she has a big Afro and throwing things in it I can imagine who's ever had a big curly Afro knows about happens or someone tries to cut your hair right it's something that subliminal it's not saying Hey this kid but it's saying that this is something that happens in life but the thing that everyone can identify what is being picked up yeah and that's the universal experience and we can identify it doesn't matter what color you are what you look like everyone has had that experience at some point and so I want to be able to draw on those experiences that we can all relate to %HESITATION some more than others in the specifics of it but really it capitalize on what the emotion as I tried to use this data to draw that out yes Sir any nice example would you like to receive updates links and special offers straight to your inbox and visit audio visual cultures tower presto com to sign up to our mailing list he mentioned this while working on digital compendium and they say you have a magazine that's not right yeah yeah so that's that magazine is slowly becoming the ground for that the series that we have coming out so right now there's tech which and there are two more stories are going to be coming out next year under it one of them is called incubus curse it's about a guy who goes to college and he's kind of really smart run of the mill but very average and for the most part forgettable she's mistaken identity gets in Kirsten he's turned into an interest or not he has to deal with the sudden really strong urges that happened in college sort of heightened college sexuality exploration but then also the fact that now he's visible because of it this new change in his life he suddenly really busy how does he handle that scenario what is it due to his life around him in other words I'm really excited about it's called muses I've been really big into Greek mythology there's a podcast called let's talk about minutes baby it's amazing it's amazing I love live she's that she's a host and she talked about a lot of Greek mythology and which is also really fun to hear me criminology is really misogynistic regardless specially zoos are not good people but it's still really fun to listen to your %HESITATION but in that %HESITATION I was postulating around uses what if there is no one knows how many pieces are ready or sometimes you're thirty sometimes there's not this exact number and I took that to like its most extreme logical conclusion what if there was an incident number they were everywhere and what is their ability to inspire actually allowed them to control and manipulate your animals so there's a story about uses about a woman who's a reporter who is following a senator around and discovers senators actually using that most if not all people in power users and they were just leveraging that to control him out into her mission to sort of expose it and let the world know what's going on is that I think that is really fun because it's really grounded you don't have like these big super powers of people their influence is I can make you do what I want I speak into your I sing a song you feel inspired or created motions and you answer her question suppose it actually puts her at in peril and so she finds herself running for her life and hiding out at the risk of just trying to tell him and what's really going on but that would still but and still he is the creator of those send your writing is that right do you have other production roles with those so yes I am the creator of them I'm writing I have a writing partner who's writing tech which with me I haven't found a writing partner from users that I really would like to find one I've had people who speak in Celtic but I'm also I don't want to be that person who has the respect I can write from this woman's perspective I can do it anyone else can that's not my experience so I want to be able to let a real experience %HESITATION through somebody who can really speak to it because what I'd be looking at from the outside in I want someone who can actually convey the nuances I don't have access to so when I opened it to find one and then into this curse I'm writing as well I do the production of the podcast yeah I love finding new music that's my favorite okay so for me think tank has been attacked which it is it is very electronic you know that the music and the sign design and that's one of those where what a sign design what is music you know it kind they slipped over one another car that I find so what do you eat you know for the music while involvement he has for detecting for you know what's going on there for years so it's it's funny it's it's usually sometimes music has been chosen before any work has ever been written I think we spoke about this a little bit earlier how just hearing something and understanding that this will be a motion you create an image in your head and so %HESITATION usually they seem to check which for example that haven't happened yet with them their third season out and I could use it for them already just because I I know that emotion I can feel it I can see in my head I happen to have been listening to Spotify or something and that song happened to fit really well with that visual that I had in my head he told that story and so that's going to but I usually really try to on the the more guttural emotion the music first and so for something called tech which it seems weird if I went in with like all of actual music it felt like it needed to have something that was a little bit more chaotic can that fits today's world where there's something always vying for your attention which is why I will help you know sound and music and sound that's how I felt actually when I was listening to and I focus I think this is deliberate where I did it you know because I find myself listening to the music and happened to really concentrate to listen to the voice again you know it this it's going back and forth and I thought this is what our rights are like you know Instagram Twitter whatever you know she expected and you know do your actual job all right %HESITATION that sort of thing that's important for check with your specially there tiger I want the music so if you never hear what Caitlyn is staying the music is telling the same story so you are really missing anything and so I wanted to make sure I have there are a couple of times where I usually find music without lyrics there couple times right looks to be in on purpose because the lyrics tell the story as well so let me be really quiet in the background then it'll slowly builds overtake the voice but it's because now they're competing and the one thing that's interesting is working with music you can hear multiple things going on at the same time it was just a bunch of people speaking you didn't get it but if it's music it certainly makes sense you can comprehend all the lines are conversations that are going on so I do have a purpose to let the music tell the story in a way that I don't think that we can do in normal speech %HESITATION we can't be as dramatic or as a motive in normal speech as we can and use again so I I I do that on purpose in some people it's it's too much and it's overwhelming and I I realize that I think the visual series will make that easier for those people looking for the people who are interested and want to it I think it'll it's it's a fun challenge I think it be an interesting experiments teach us a lesson ten a completely desensitized environment you know in the dark eyes closed and just the next nine yes so that's a challenge anybody's last name go and try and be with tax question not why and I think I will try that because I did find myself struggling to concentrate when I was listening tests it's funny I do that that's actually after we get to the final okay I'll do that and I realized that if I don't have something else in front of me it's a lot easier for me to listen to it and there been times right before I go to bed or %HESITATION listen %HESITATION Justin see what if I were someone else listening to this and have nothing else around what we eat can I find a gift will be pulled into the story though even though I wrote it I know the story when I remove all the other distractions around me it it helps it's a little bit of an experiment but I'm enjoying it that's gates at skip practice to be self critical as well and to try and imagine yourself as the complete the claim that Snapchat as well that's brilliant yeah I was gonna ask you as well because your studio Prometheus digital studio is that right and the name send I decide that that makes sense now that you've set up a lady and Prometheus and so your company I mean if I understand correctly you're using that company to try it said read the address of water gaps in representation across the board and it's not just race and not just standard but things like testability and you know social class and and all sorts of things to talk hi do we work together to tackle these things across cultural production media production police are said sayings you're so busy you've got all these different things go at is that something you'd like to set up special interest as well maybe just the role of that company and your role in that company and the broader ians and high you're going to buy no so one of the answers all the state has to be these podcasts but you know are there other things as well yes %HESITATION previous is it's sort of the bread and butter that forms the podcast and we have some a lot of consulting clients work with advertisers cetera and a lot of the of the conversation that you there and a lot of artists that we have %HESITATION all turn it around integrity and I and I know that a lot of people have this thing and it makes a diverse city and everyone has their own interpretation of it was actually fun to talk to because what you'll find out and we've done this exercise some people mean gender some people meet race race and gender some people get everything and so there's a lot of misunderstanding around it because everyone is defined it differently but assumes that we ought to say and what we really want to do it for me kisses to help address that in a way that's authentic but not through the lens you are so under represented or you are you drew the short straw we wanted to really do you from the lands let's remind ourselves of our common humanity I think we've become so accustomed to data and stats and numbers even more than we think I mean my company by definition is a data company and my goal in that though is to bring humanity back into it because so often we hear people talking about fifty percent of people in there just a number or just that they don't understand that you have to get behind it and so the way that we interpret our data is we have that number what does that mean for actual people what are the people behind it feeling how are they interacting what does that mean for daily lives and that's really the the lens through which we like to look at everything we do so instead of coming in just give me the number that you know like thirty percent your audience is women at thirty percent of your audience is women who have this preference or live this lifestyle or facing this challenge or whatever it is so that we can start to understand that these are people are not just numbers part of the way that we do that in is even how we addressed the audience we started to move away from demographics being focal point because demographics is usually just a short cut to get to a behavior or preference or something that you want to understand what people say oh yeah we want to target man for this series of this blah blah blah what they really want is they want people who exhibit these behaviors are like these types of things %HESITATION who do you have this preference and so we really try to get people to focus on that because in doing bad what you see is you start to understand your audience your consumer as a person and not as a stain or objects that you can move around right and you start to see more respect towards the people that were speaking to and so I think that's always been a really big part of how I looked at data especially when it comes up audience and consumers and Hey being told that that's not right there's a short cut to it and so I started a company because I was tired of waiting for other people to do if I want to see change I'm actually part of the problem I don't actually make a concerted effort to be the chain seven asking for so that's how Prometheus was born we'd love to be part of the conversation with AP cultures called on Instagram Facebook and Twitter and we also have discord just coming up and when your plane to bite people having different definitions of what what do we mean by diversity and I think there's I think we're experiencing certainly in the U. K. we're experiencing quite a lot of push back on the idea of woke tests so you're promoting you know any kind of can we just have any other kind of human being day's best thing that's you know I mean I love white man they're great it's a lot of them are not full but sometimes it's just it's a bit boring obscene O. comunque maps just anybody else or changing this thing but then you can get told off for B. and J. woke up bite stuff and that's a bit of a problem and so it's there so many tensions are Rhines trying to say even the playing field for people but also trying not to alienate the people who feel like they're having something right away from them when I say if we even the playing field we all when we all do you better everybody gets left it up to you I think a lot of people don't realize you man suffer because as of yet Cherokee as well if we sort the beat Cherokee we sort everybody for example many other examples D. N. kind tear any challenges Anne Heche back any toppling dying you know what are your experiences and trying to take a major names I do and I I mean I think part of the reason you touched on it as well as that people feel threatened right right now everyone is making a white man that big bad that's not fair right it's not like you guys out to get your that's not the case and I think the other thing is so I'm part of this group called the multicultural insights collective and so we do research around how can you be more effective at diversity in the first project that we're doing right now is called words matter what is the language that we use that we can make sure that we're talking about in a way that's inclusive but also that resonates across the board right that everyone can get sick we can align with us is a lot of the focus that we talk about they'll take a word and it means one thing to someone else and it becomes pejorative to a different group and serves you immediately create tension what I've discovered throughout that is a lot of even the most vocal critics of wokeness or diversity really when you get down to support it but what they're not supporting it is a fact they've been demonized right and so there's a there's a defense mechanism that's activated at that point right and there's there's also a fear of what you're taking away from me %HESITATION versus the reality of what what do we all gain and we talk to my other podcast professional compassion which is totally not scripted and it's it's very serious but the goal it out when it was really we did that because I realized that a lot of the conversations we had were people misunderstanding each other we're talking past each other and then there's also the piece of people activating about things but nothing ever really happening and I didn't want people who had really genuine intentions were afraid because he didn't want to be labeled as well or did not make a mistake and there's a service chamber on not knowing or asking the question how wonderful is there a way that I can help mitigate that so we created a podcast where people could not in this week share their experiences so when they don't have to have the same ticket ask the question I can bring on an expert could arrive there's no way I could get expert in all of these things right but I had to bring on an expert who can speak to that give a solution for what's something that you can do to you don't have to wait for your government or your job or whatever sixty you can just do today to help increase diversity and not lose your shirt on it right and that I think is really bad and seems to be helpful in communicating the fact that becoming more diverse that diversity is not a zero sum game you give up something I get something which on both sides I think you'll find a lot of people into treating it that way that they want people talking about humanism or black lives matter I just want the right to be in a presser myself and I'm like that's not that's not diverse I just basically put it so when you talk through the podcast we've been able to speak to a specially that notion zero sum game it's hard to break that down and kind of include everyone and point out that we can't have true adversity to be honest and last white men are also part of that conversation when my gas which was really it I think probably one of my favorite but also one of my more difficult episodes we talked to about their own handwritten express I see him but he's he's a white guy who wrote a book called lightning go from fragile to agile and I didn't realize until we had that conversation how uncomfortable it was for me to talk about a white man right got something done before and I realized in order for us to have that conversation I had did you willing to be open and receptive and listen but I also had to be willing to be vulnerable in a sense to express areas where it would for me it's a challenge but I think in doing that and having that conversation I think that will be okay great what was that we actually have to be brave enough to just have a conversation to begin and give each other room to make mistakes so often I think the problem with this is that we don't give people room to make mistakes no one's going to be perfect going to make mistakes and %HESITATION I think that'll get pushed back at someone else like it he tried there's are damned if they do they're damned if they don't so why pardon and it feels that I've seen it mostly on Twitter for people's responses can be and century you know they're explosive amount doesn't help when somebody's genuinely go and %HESITATION I've just heard about this what's going on and they want to learn and I think people should be supported and learning a night completely understands people's frustration with well it's not my job to educate you he you know I'm exhausted as a woman I've done not hello and I think you know it I've had experiences that may be you know at least call can't say what a black person may have experienced space oppression in certain circumstances so it hasn't happened to me as a white person but it something similar happened to me as a woman for example your accent test them you know I'm a northern Irish person in England so I I get bother if I open my mice you know so it might be small but I understand some things and I think when you can appeal to someone's understanding is you're talking about aids but it's having the environment that's safe enough to do that and I think social media has not helped in a way and it had a cage help it has to call raising to help because it has the power to create a lot of the problems in the first and I think you know and heart X. lights how far we have actually come in we haven't come far enough of course but we have come quite far and you're seeing big cultural institutions began to acknowledge their colonial past sins just be blown to bits because at the time from Asian I suppose coming back circled say Dada you know which information these things happen you know and if we don't say yes these things happens because we're not gonna get anywhere for everybody just because Bob so sorry here some money to make up for what your ancestors suffers you know it's not really going to be helpful but if we go this happens I'm get educated and that's try to do better for Austin for future generation I mean that's kind of high I feel about it I don't know what you're feeling about it as yeah I I agree I mean he recently come to the conclusion that yes we want our governments are our institutions or companies to have a bigger role but until that happens it's really important for us to embrace what we can control you should influence and if I'm able to work with %HESITATION speech to or one person two people have at least done what's within my power to do I may not be a big network but the network that I do have I can make an impact on I think it's good started taking perspective more it would really be helpful in understanding it I go back to my mother my grandmother you know certainly now that I'm an adult so why is right my mom used to always say to my grandmother deal with people where they are not where you want them to be of that section and it's it's something that's really hard but it I find myself having to remind myself of that not everyone is where you think they should be or not everybody's had the experience or the information that you do so instead of trying to shun them for not being where you are I understand that we deal with them where they are if they don't know it's okay to say I'm not in a place where I can educate your top my top but I'll tell you how I learned about your culture and maybe you can do the same right and leave it at that it's a way to allow them to make a mistake if it allowed them to me to ask that question but it also doesn't penalize him for having to ask a question and trying to learn yeah that's an excellent point I think that's because not everybody has the privilege of education so they might have privileges and they'll resent those things being called privileges because they don't feel very privileged and so I just say you know you have to make them on on where they are at that moment you know what's going on in their life they don't have the vocabulary that some of the rest of this might have because we are actively can shaming knowledge on these things and trying to just reprogram the brand I'm not sort of thing because we all have our prejudices we all grow up by Sam and we all think of some other kind of person as the enemy and it's a long reconditioning and read learning things and I'm learning things say wise up from not go north and holy and have either just tryin I'm rosary life the same as we are so some ready wonderful quite fair and I think you know that's a really really important one is the scale just be kind to yourself and if you can just talk to one person and say them why did you why did you do that are you homophobic you know just kind it gently talk to somebody you care by I know we a year say F. R. sehr and just have a child to buy what was out on the bike why did you show I thought at that person %HESITATION you know going on there yeah and just hear the story and then realized that a lot of the time it's something going on within themselves so they're angry if I eat and not necessarily the stranger exists over there exactly and I think it's it's interesting because that's where I am well not recently but I just over my life I increasingly see the power of media and having that conversation as well because a lot of times you may not have exposure to set group right that you don't understand them so you don't have anyone to refer back to or even to talk to and I remember I I was living in but when I lived in Spain it happened a little bit when I was in South America that was particularly poignant where I have a friend and I were going to subway we were going to meet some friends of his and this gentleman sat across from us and he heard us speaking writing me never in Chile were all speaking Spanish our actions were in Chile and %HESITATION so my friends from Porto Rico and I'm from LA but both have very Caribbean accent so he stopped us and he asked where you guys from and it's over from support returning to Los Angeles there's no way you can get from a senseless are you from Brazil sounds yes or no you're not white so where are you from leaving where is your family from and I told my parents are also born in Los Angeles and right at least one of my grandparents was but they're all just from Los Angeles and she kept saying nope that can't be right and she stayed on the subway he passed to stop state on the subway really and then we got off the subway or walking across a bunch he followed us and asking no you can't I've never seen a black person from Los Angeles they're surfers and their yeah all of these things you're not a basketball player are you around for them no I'm not actually sure business school both of them no one I'm from Los Angeles thank you must be games I've seen Danish people on TV you were black so you must be a he just kept going to everywhere he seen black people can be from African Jamaican and no I'm not in all his references are from what he'd seen in media and I realize that several times I have that sort of experience for people equate to what they see on television or radio station on social media and they assume this must be the world and so I started doing some research on just media in general and from its inception radio TV and newspaper media industry has been very self aware of it influence you get half over diversity and how people perceive each other and very pointedly has chosen not to or do you do it in a way that's divisive but gets industry more modern their riveting studies from even just the thirties and the forties are around yeah and in doing that I realized that while a lot of people think it's just hard it's just you know entertainment but actually it does more than not because it does create a cultural and societal reference point for people yeah I think that's important and it allows us to have some of these conversations about actually having them sometimes not so interesting that's just reminded me that because that you know I grew up in at an incredibly white yes and it was during that conflict in Northern Ireland as well so there was very little migration actually coming in well any that there was and the ninety days Hong Kong was still still belongs to Britain says Hong Kong but other than that you didn't really see very often unless it was a soldier or something you didn't really see but he did sometimes but very very rarely %HESITATION so I was very naive and and I probably had a lot of those beliefs says similar to that man I don't think I'd have stocks somebody say makes yeah I just remember one of my favorite films when I was a teenager it was empire records and it saddens go and then I grew up on a read loads of stuff at night watches his things I read those are things that are set and some friends asco and it's clear capital there's loads of different kinds of communities they're slot since led the team depot there's loads of African Americans there and then you go back to the sound and you go where's all that gay and not to white people all white kids had %HESITATION normative quite rich my name gosh and this is the nineties you know this is a boss like you know the fifties or anything I mean their sons in the fifties and you've got more African American characters in yesterday and they kneel roles but they're they're me and it was quite a shock and also meant so much to me as a as a teenager and then learning a bite there ray ensure that was going on and and maybe psych class and allowing kids like me elsewhere in the world to grow up believing that San Francisco was just fell of white people that is a real problem and it has been quite a shock when you do you learn about those things and not everybody does learn those things I don't you know I did a film degree so you know I I started to learn about those things but most people here generally aren't going to be so not so interesting that example but that sounds actually quite scary and I think that's where the idea of you for me at least starting to realize that there are certain privileges that I have right it's heteronormative male going someplace with a friend some guy following us not not much of a threat there two of us and one of you and so physically we don't have that fear of him attacking right and if you did they're still two of us to just one okay so there's something different I mean it was night or another country and I doubt I did never crossed my mind right I just thought he was like a sliding and knowing and I did you go away we're gonna go visit some friends and even though the last episode of professional confession I spoke about that a little bit where I realized I had actually been sort of on the receiving end of discrimination and completely threw me for a loop because it came from a woman Jewish woman and it's not a place right specter just yet and it's not a wall that I realized I found myself in the thought is that you know well I am a black males of course that was going to be the area where I would get discrimination but using the mail is on the part of it with a discrimination complaint with the black and so this time it wasn't a black man is described it was not something that should interfere with it said we need to realize that I had to have some level of privilege because I've never had that experience I'm used to I can hear certain questions right I can do something and it's never been a I've never had anyone talk about how it worked these men are useless or like you can't really trust them so having that experience was really useful in making me even more empathetic but also realizing that I can't clean the victim there all the time right there even in being a black male I still have because I'm male their rooms in conversations that I've brought into that women don't get pulled into and so coming to that conclusion was actually it was kind of a challenge to be Frank I couldn't say that oh no no no no but I'm always with the idea of intersectional there are multiple societal factors at play really did stand out so I am not even creating tech which end users and a series of recruiting I want to make sure that not being so full of hubris and the notion I can tell every story and really allow someone else to tell their own story right because it my perspective on it is my perspective but it may not be accurate do more harm than good but I really value tie lessons about episodes of professional confessions and I really value G. being so open because I don't think that's an easy thing for a man to talk about actually because it's something I have encountered I am have a former life as an academic and thought kind of delaying is quite right and a lot of institutions the worst Belize I've had to have been women and that's the sort of people he not and I'm malicious way I don't think they even realize they're doing a lot of the time but the the latter up after them because I think well and I try to get this taken away from the night and I can't help anybody else up because then they'll be better to me and you know so it's IBM started again but I really value to talking about that because I witnessed it happening she male colleagues by the CM senior women colleagues who were J. E. repelling me the repelling man who were my peers as well I think unless we talk about these things and an open way on is difficult and it's difficult for some people they hear a smile next you know I find it really difficult because you know sacrificed feminism you're not supposed to be negative about women but actually there's a lot of women night they're here not feminists even if they think they are you know and your sexuality again the ex what flavor is your M. S. M. and unfortunately I mean I can't speak said the individual that you're talking about I don't know what their context as but I have been quite church women who think that the way to even things always is to J. St man today Walkman have historically been doing to women all this time and now some high balance it all right but it was like you mentioned earlier you just become a carbon copy of the oppressor you know each just may fade and spot Preston he's a processor and that's not helping anyone I really valued you going through your own story and being ready open it but I think that's ready for yes an important and hopefully will encourage other people to do the same thank you know that that means a lot because honestly I I spoke to your team and I was really nervous about releasing that episode it's a really personal experience first and I also didn't want to come across isn't he being negative toward women in two minutes okay that wasn't the intention it was really easy for me to highlight that it helped make me more empathetic and I realized that in that situation there are temporary privilege but I also realized that not everyone is immune from bias sees and prejudice that I really wanted to communicate that and hopes I was really glad to get a positive response from it because I was so nervous okay okay I'm going to publish but it turned out well so I'm not actually I figured it was something that could hopefully help someone else yeah I think so I definitely got a lot I'd it's listening takes I recognized so much of what you were talking about H. me whether they ever hear it or not but I know if individual man that I'm friends waste you would benefit from this things yet so I'm going to pass it on you know just in case yes at con even if it's just you're not alone man you know this is happening to other people yeah thank you that I I think it's it's important I mean so much of the work is sadly just starting the conversation brought to light now and no one knows and I think the one good thing that happened with the pandemic and Andy ups follow black lives matter which has been around for awhile or certainly the people felt empowered to verbalize to express things that have been sort of laid under the surface for so long and they felt that they were just needs to suffer in silence and deal with it because that's just the way of the world and then once people started expressing and sharing it realized that it wasn't just in the world there are other people sitting and suffer in silence as well with a slightly different circumstance they were also doing it so it brings it back to the highlighting the fact that there are differences yes what you need at the end of the day that the commonality of the human experience as we have in the outnumber those those differences that we've been focusing on yeah sure well demand I'm wary of keeping a much longer and %HESITATION you've been so wonderful can you point people towards where to find out more about you eight website socials that sort of thing yes definitely %HESITATION so you can go to Prometheus digital studio dot com and we have a drop down menu for contents you can hear both of our podcasts that are active right now digital compendium podcast that's our our brand but you'll see tech which and professional compassion those in that you are working on and it will be added to that where you can find us on Instagram and Facebook digital underscore compendium or Prometheus digital either one is great and feel free to reach out to this messages we reply love to have conversations with people I think it really helps keep us grounded and we don't get too full of ourselves and plus it's fun to learn from other people well I really hope we can keep in touch I just figured I fear any advance speaking CA and I really enjoyed your company I'd love to hear more about your life in Chile I'm a little bit faster generate love to go there some day research it was fun it was really really great we should definitely do something about that and I I was actually working in media there and I ended up somehow on a news talk shows when I was there we were we were touring and TV station and they ended up pulling my classmates on air and here is it was really funny but yeah there's definitely a lot of media interesting yes okay thanks so much demand aspen just sum up that pleasure thank you so much for everything you're doing thank you so much for having me Paul I really appreciate that this is a great conversation hopefully we can reach and we'll try to get in sooner I love that you're welcome back anytime and you get your other podcasts fired up let's have a big chunk is definitely definitely thank you so much
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 109 – I’ve Been Walking with Janet Sternburg automated transcript


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hello dear listeners welcome to the official cultures stuff podcast where we take into different areas of the parts media and creative industries I'm Paul the planner and in this episode I have the most fascinating conversation which I hope is one of many ways Janet stern Burke as you hear Janet is a writer and photographer based in Los Angeles we talk mainly about hi Janet came to photography website really planning to be back in nineteen ninety yes as a mode of expression or thinking or being in the world while walking while going for EMS walks around cities we get into a quite a lot of detail and thinking through what those acts of walking and photographing in teal and trivial butts we really only scratched the surface so I hope China will return when her next project comes to fruition this timer me in the talking up bites her photographic NSA back I've been walking and some of her earlier work but she's already working on the same sets haven't revealed themselves to her as we record I must say I feel so lucky to be making these kinds of connections and I'm really glad that you can share them with me as well I hope you learn as much as both down and I do from this talk actually that's a really nice thing is that down it felt that that was important for her to say that she really learned something from talking to me today and I love that I love that this is happening on the show before hand you over a massive thanks to our glorious past trends over at Peachtree on dot com forward slash AP cultures but he supports and all the ways I struggle really to keep this go weighing just a quick reminder as well that all the important links for this episode and if you want to become somebody help site to show those are all in the show notes for every you're accessing this episodes if you hear any binding a toll in the pocket cranes I think I should manage she cried the mites but %HESITATION if you hear any binding or popping noises I'm recording this on the face of November twenty twenty one I live in England it's going moderate there with fireworks and all sorts might make her next door neighbors it's very quiet and there because they have a beautiful Kali and he's not been having a fun week so you know I I think they've taken I think a lot of the dog owning places and hence the her his or her off somewhere else having a break so apologies if there any banging noises are coming sorry that I haven't managed to get out of a spot it's not time of the year and I thought it was worth mentioning I was going to leave this until a quieter day but I'm on my own may as well do something I am a bit scratchy because I've been talking all day I can't concentrate on anything else so I thought get just get this done while I'm while over there anyway just thanks so much for listening and please do check out John it's website on her backs and perhaps even days out while you listen to us describing them enjoy this episode Janet Sternberg I'm so delighted you're joining me today on the official cultures you've been trying to set this up for a while a nicer finally saying our recording and it's just such a pleasure and an honor to have you very warm welcome have completely lovely and that yes we have had a back and forth before we finally got to this but I think it's been good enough where you're not we send each other things we talked a little bit from our respective homes you in Ireland now I'm in England's women get enjoy so I have a sort of stealing that not even this is not that formal it feels simpatico nice so Janet you got loads of experience I think we're mainly going to talk about your more recent photography years got it back I just a moment cold iced and walking and photography and I say back but you've been a writer for a long time he's been a researcher you park Jan Feldman media and all sorts of areas so you just got a wealth of experience that we can learn from and I'm so excited to get into a lot of issues that come up straight your work today would you be happy to give my listeners a bit of an overview about you and how you would like to describe yourself without be all right it would be although it presents a problem because I've really never been in England at school getting myself no no I'm quite serious I I I think it's actually a bit of an issue because people who do multiple things they either have to condense themselves into a single description and that makes people happy because they know how cool you are it's it's clear however if you do a number of different things often more or less at the same time it reminds me of something that I read that I find very still interesting there was a writer whose name at this moment is %HESITATION escaping me but it will come back to me and from the nineteen forties who was both a photographer and writer and she did a very beautiful book of photography on the left side of the page and a novel on the right and there was every page and it was not illustrative it was just somehow it just the right oblique angle to each up there and he went back to his publisher for hopefully a new book and the publisher said the world is not ready for an ambi dexterous person maybe said writer maybe he said artist but you take the point and I think it is not working many many more people especially those a lot younger than I am in fact doing multiple things that are not self conscious about it since you asked I am and your what as said to describe myself well I think it well in terms of work although there are many other angles to come into about myself but in terms of work ethic of actually %HESITATION sensibility maybe is better than engaging work I think I've always been a writer I mean was a little girl my mother says March first workers work I don't know if that's true but it's a nice will lead she started fairly wide mother gesture when I was six years old I wrote something a barrister to say what it was but I will I've gone to she's fantasia movie remember and I was so thrilled by it that I came back and asked my mother for paper and pencil the reason I'm embarrassed that wasn't true really that much my first writing was movie Curtis it was more about how much I loved it actually so that's been my intention given many many years when I ran away from that identity I do other things but underneath the beating heart has always been the word and I've always been interested in the word and the image and I've made some forays in that direction I did are still many years ago on the writer Virginia will short term for public television and there was an actor who is evoking Welch not literally playing her but there is quite beautiful landscape not England like England and voice over work courage and after I did that I realized that there has to be a better way of doing it because the visual and the words for each other your room and there were too many maybe like I'm doing now but too many rich and so trying to solve the problem of imagine board is another feature of my life and I think I might have made a real attempt at it recently with this new book we can come back to that but to finally end up the saga not really in nineteen ninety eight I finished a book and it is due to ten years in the writing which is a little bit much but then again you asked me to describe it so I'd like to try to get it right and I was in a very funny position that was new to me the book was set in the past historical and personal and I looked up and I couldn't see what was around me what was in the present I could see it but I couldn't feel it is something and the upshot of this is I went to our second home in Mexico and set myself a little practice of walking every day without a goal without thinking and I saw a window and I liked what was in it and I thought I want to take a photograph first time I've ever thought that and %HESITATION I went to the town square and the only thing that was available was a disposable camera and a lot more to say about that if you want but my life since nineteen ninety eight has been very much photographer writer writer photographer and whatever else you want to add in to talk where she is leading the pack small that's really informative Janet I think that actually sets and it gives us a really fell picture and we can start getting into some details fire when I was reading straight that piece that you're talking about where you describe all of this happening it really struck me that you were because it's very autobiographical and it feels that your photography and stop going that direction as well it's a way of writing the south it's a way of reflecting your style and I feel that there's a lot of South Park teacher coming three and very subtle ways your photography so this wondering if it's not something you have been thinking about aids or what you thought up I thought well I route to be honest I'd love to know how you see that but I will respond briefly I think the through line through all of this is that the way I'm in the world is as a Polish you know they can sound so highfalutin you know %HESITATION %HESITATION addict this poetic that I don't mean it that way it's just how I feel and see the world in terms of being moved I don't know how else to shared without sounding good day and I've always loved autobiography in general not memoir I don't like that would warn bitch because I refused to call one of my books memoir which is sort of stupid because it you know booksellers remember when they were bookstores shelves they didn't know where it went but I really felt memoir and I've said this before so excuse me if that sounds canned but it's me more me me me me me me me we are no that doesn't interest me what does interest me is all the levels and prismatic facets of the cells the cells third time inspection history and connections to other kinds of thinking so I kind of think that everything I've done in church home grocery is as a visual Polish and I think as such the images reveal that fashion having said that I would like to know how you seen an element of an autobiographical self in the work can I ask you of course yes absolutely when I read your text and when I look at your images it comes across to me that it's high you see ed Scriven ye the salvinia ways that you can start seeing boasts the world's and yourself and the world that's really what strikes me by a lot of your images I really love you telling your own story a bite hi you think him to begin dating tests it's really spontaneous it's very much you know you you strike out you go for a walk with site a real practice beside it direction was IT destination you're just doing the acts of walking so it's quite performative in life I'm not sense and I'm really interested in life performance artist while so it kind of takes me dying not area at it's sort of a bite life and arts and arts and life and about play and not really planning anything but spontaneity rose you know contingency rose and that idea of you just felt so compelled suddenly to take a photograph and to just make an image either forty receding I think that's where to me you're documenting how you were saying something out last time that's what you felt compelled to day and then doctor finding right where can I get a camera and so he got a little disposable cameras because that's it's available to you and then you discovering that there are limitations I thought that's a really special box of limitations and again not hi you're seeing the world's and making art out of something very every day not ideal really strikes me as on again it's for me not very much relates to the the art lice relation maths and life performance %HESITATION so there's a life nice there's a spontaneity to the photography and it's not planned date stash but you D. S. specific poetry poetry come see us in those races while Rory Burr evoking an image and repeating out into words some high so I'm really starting to see high at your images are poetic and not sunset if you know what I mean so so to me that's where it's autobiographical toy you say yeah that's helping you realize how you see the world so it's an official culture center it's a way of saying but it specifically your way of saying and that moment I thought time and not play yes and I think there's something really fascinating if I thought that's really worse delving into quite a bit well I hope a lot that I can get some sort of a transcript of our conversation what you're saying is something I would like to have and to go back to and I think it's very astute when I hear about elements of autobiography I changed things somewhat more narrow lead that you're because I'm not a documentarian and any way at all and I think that this question of how I see which of course then devolves to how you see or anybody else to see but that is kind of exactly what I care about think of a few more things to say about what you just said and one is that I always follow my own path and sometimes most of the time is able I think I just I think I can say at this stage I'm seventy eight that it worked out you know like everybody many a bump in the road but I have said well you know maybe I'll get an MFA in writing this is when I was in New York and lived in Manhattan for many many years before coming out west and well maybe I'll do that I'd already worked for some years in the quote unquote other non academic part of the world and I went up to Columbia and I sat in on a class and everybody in the class was looking toward the professor who is a very well known published horse and it seemed like we were kids and they were vying for his approval and they were competing against each other and I walked out and I had a sort of a modest migraine headaches on the way back walking to my apartment in the Upper West Side and I thought no just that's not me it's not for me I can't do that so I didn't something else I studied with one person publishers work I admired because I thought that his approach which was very straightforward would be very useful for me because I can get fancy I don't want to get fancy so everything is beautiful match and so there's no orthodoxy in my life which I realize religiously lately but it cuts to the next thing two more things one is the idea of starting an art form late in life which is what I did with photography because I love the way you're describing the spontaneity but I think that can only come at some level when you don't have a great big critics standing on your shoulders you know we've all had bad words listening tools and been in the world of art region for awhile and that that's really great about we live for you can just say okay I can I'll just do it I'll just do it I'm not going to subject it to a whole set of questions about whether I can whether Ryan from mission whether I'm good enough and that's really something I wish I'd known younger I think would be a great thing to have his young life your dog birthday but it didn't happen later and the last thing the third thing is I think a little bit of what you're talking about is what I love and think of in whole or treat whether it's one word or image or whatever and that's our world it's a show should emerge room not I mean I really love documentary work and being here it actually is a form of witnessing political and otherwise but that's not what I'm doing I'm going %HESITATION and without thinking a lot about it it's like yes this this is something that really I know it's in my territory and it relates to this and it relates to that none of which I'm thinking at the time but it's in a social way of being in the world and making leaps rather than logical connections so I think that's where that comes in from Israel Warrnambool many parts sorry not a toll no that's what we're here for it to talk all of this all right that's exactly what we're here for I just wanted to pick up on what you're saying obey this idea of being late in life in coming to some saying because I think this is something we need to talk about it more and more as a society really is what does that even mean to be are your mates career or emerging I really good friends of mine she said they no longer with us but she was in her seventies and she made this point to many many times that it's never too late to begin any art form and we're constantly emerging and evolving and becoming a hero so it it's a really interesting thing to say goodbye it's being late in life and the way it has this connotation alls I didn't come to the cinema and I I wanna just troubled out a little bit because I think will actually become the things when they're ready for them and then there shouldn't really be a timer I'm not if you know what I mean so I just sort of one that say click dot points a little bit because it seems like you've come see photography at a point where you were ready for it and it was ready for you okay and that was on your terms you know so I I just think you know that's really important so not going to go the pine trees don't have to dictate to me hi I'm Megan hi I create some high I see things and how may be in the world you know so I think it just made me think about I don't know if you have a response why do or should do should there's a really interesting article in the last month in The New Yorker magazine by the renowned and he's writing about how we broadly speaking obviously the west and certainly the United States as a culture we like to think well it's generation Z. your generation extra which we attribute certain qualities and by the same token he talks about well we like to think of the sixties and the seventies and characterized those initial your way but he was pointing out first of all with the generational thing shifts and changes and it's also a vast generalizations talk about well generations G. is more benevolent and more political you know it's it's just a way it's like saying I'm a writer as opposed to I'm a person who does many different things it's a way to have a handle on the world but it's not true handle at least that's what I feel very strongly reading him and I have felt it at all other times too it's a way of being read Dr of the complexity that is in the world there is this phenomenon that people of Britain about about late like Sri H. everything and isn't it interesting that Dillinger Corning had Alzheimer's and he could paint so wonderfully when it was in this whatever eighties years yes %HESITATION I can't so I think that's pretty interesting what drops away perhaps not that Alzheimer's is something one wants and that's not what I mean obviously but but that what drops away is I think a bit of what I was talking about earlier and that strictures that one is imposed on one cell and there is a freedom and %HESITATION what's greater luxury in life is there than to feel free and that's shared I think I am recognizing something that everybody recognizes especially if they're self reflective or or somewhere to almost intuitive and that is what they really are sh dangers that one has to recognize and I think for quite awhile now I'm gonna be very personal those of you who are listening and I feel like it you've got a lovely face and next a deal that I can be that but you're quite awhile through a complex of reasons parents home life whatever I wanted to be known and I wanted to have my work life or admired nothing is terribly wrong with that I was never any good at pushing my work in the world but it has itself gone into the world to one very small but real degree and it's been really didn't recently one of my books the archives for it was acquired by a %HESITATION wonderful our client is a great great pleasure you know it will go on but right now I am in the middle of another stage and I'm trying to figure it out when I say I'm the middle I'm you know I'm not I wouldn't either side but it certainly feels as though I don't need any of that M. at doing it and watching it is running counter to what's right for me now and I think Colbert played a big role at mac because for a year I was able and again please anybody who's listening I do know how unbelievably fortunate I was during this year and most people or not but I have an apartment I have dogs euro and in no way to consider equivalent shoes I have a husband I have a life that was to a large extent on zoom but the ability not the ability the freedom not to have to be social just to be quiet and go and look and read me back to what it was like when I was nine years old when I would check paper and pencil and whatever things %HESITATION option this monastery across the street from us I'm Jewish monastery have this tremendous a war because it was a miracle very beautiful S. self conscious about being Jewish in the middle of all of that but that's neither here nor there I was kind of exalted when I would go up there and that's what I was feeling that you're a collision that it was a return to that little girl and she's who I want now to get to stage I mean it's obviously I can't catch her again but I can look toward off happy finding her again so right now I'm involved in during a ceremony things to make the book happen in the world I've been walking macbook one Amazon of terror moving right along you know when I have some wonderful events coming up I'm doing a book signing at a gallery very good photography gallery a week from Sunday and they asked me who I'd like to be in discussion with and it was an easy answer but aren't one person said yes you read genius I think Antonio dimazio minerals scientist whose work is having rate really important to me and then we became friends so this that was a thing on top of batch so this is by no means a complaint what could be lovelier when sitting in a terrific gallery talking in front of people and exchanging ideas with Antonio dimazio so it's not a complaint it's a kind of we know what people used to go around with forked sticks looking for water dousing your no it's like I'm doubting myself she wrote that's a fussing about it cutting it and I really understand what you mean when you're connecting west that young version of yourself that still in there somewhere I think well maybe a lot of us have done not I. P. I hear about a lot of people discovering their inner child and dating it might sound strange but an acting styles parenting and trying to have a connection with their young south again so I really understand what you mean when you say that that's a lovely way to go up I did as well as wondering if we can talk about it by the technology because I think what's interesting here is almost a lock of tack and your photography and that's the point Hey it comes to mind as well you talk about eight the sense of freedom that you have and to me I think that our autonomy you have a choice to be autonomous and just folding lock back into the idea of autobiography and it being a bite the cells do you there south discovery happening here there's several action their self awareness happening you know it's really fascinating to hear that you're discovering a lot about yourself there's an emergence of yourself coming straight and not just yet S. C. H. but yet previous agents as well as she as you look back as well as in the here and now I am sick forward so there's there's really something and not I think but again I think just thinking about the cameras that you've been using so previously you've been using disposable cameras and may even then and she iPhones and I mean we very much associates the smartphone way taking self fees E. date out but in a very different way you know it's a very different way of approaching sells porchetta SLC or at marking yourself in the worlds marking your journeys you know the unplanned nature of your journeys I think and I've been walking when when you set and ready B. Weston's MHS and you start to recognize actually there's some patterns here there are different shapes that are emerging there's hi you like it hi space is taken up how you see yourself and reflective surfaces and you just might catch those you might see yourself an M. car window being reflected its or you'll see just a snippet of somebody going by on the skateboards and deal take a fractional image of that person or you'll see some water but through a hole in a bit of concrete you know it's how you frame sayings and and highly stylized exceeded as well by their relatively restrictive framing of the phone or is a disposable camera and you talk quite a bit of by each focused on high you don't actually have control over focus on its may be quite a flattened image and not sort of saying so again it's coming back said it's how you say but also we can't really change the focus of our ice you we see what we say and that's a bit like comedies communists C. as well they can't really do anything T. tactical with holiday see eyes are %HESITATION and G. ready if that was the human eye which I think is really lovely I think again you you're sort of back to basics what you're really pushing the limits of dot BSX technology if that makes sense I was wondering if you have any further sought some mountain what you're thinking it's a match and if that relates to anything else that's come up in your stinking sense there I do sure the first thing I just want to go back to the image of the US skateboarder which is just his legs in a window above because I just want to talk briefly about feeling the way that emotion becomes a feeling to be more precise and just re reading to Moscow because he was black I was wandering around and there's a large flows of nearby and even Google Tokyo downtown and there's the Japanese American national museum and then down this long sh it's really a pedestrian street but it's quite a wide one is usually on the contemporary arch and it's usually has lots of people and during colder there was nobody and when I saw the pair of legs on the skateboard first I recognized that it was a remarkable image because above that is glass that is should be reflective and it almost makes the upper half of him look not only is though he's only partially remember almost as though he's bursting into flames because of that kind of rate of goals of what some call him and then the strange brick subside it's Jeremy with the feeling was first and he's alone he's a skateboarder usually something which challenge some way in the context there was no context and so I just want to begin by acknowledging the something that I think is the spoken enough about in photography and that is the emotion of taking a picture of the feeling of checking the picture I think perhaps it's some not part of the tradition of straight talk or street which has been to a very large extent not completely by a long shot in the hands of men and I think men are not that comfortable talking about feelings that may be archaic so be it but I I do think it's time for that to enter into the world of singing the other thing is you know I usually very very clean I have read this respect for people who really are technically magnificent and there are a lot of them Mr tell your story and sometimes I prefer to say always confusing well not really a photographer %HESITATION an image maker because that die offs my hat to the people who work within the traditional exquisite means of photography and I do in a sense I mean there's a lot of composition is a lot of howling trolls there's a lot of juxtaposition over traditional elements of photography all the necessary ones I work with so it's not like I'm in nine weeks in World War during around going back briefly did the disposable because it has no direct the you know this you know because there's only automatic focus it took me away from the initial thing that photographers I've been trying to do with her and that is just say I'm like this I make sure I don't like this %HESITATION Blue Ridge and if you can't do that another world unfolds and that's everything in the frame being of equal value and although I am not a Buddhist I read a lot of Judaism and I think about this on my own practice it necessarily and I think it is a somewhat Buddhist approach to refuse the hierarchy of values that one can very easily holes in photography kind of comes with the territory the other thing is that when I was in college which I think that's a picturesque story but we will go next I studied philosophy and I'm still really interested in philosophy so when I saw those first images from the disposable not only did they interest me as images but I realize that a lot of those several things which I've mentioned minimum depth of field and focus I was getting something that I haven't seen before although I didn't think of it that way other people have said that because when you're working with reflection which I was there's always an option and free lander I mean these are great great show tiger first but you know where the photographer is you know he's standing somewhere and you see that imagine you do understand the space between the photographer and what he's looking at etcetera and what I saw I was getting was something that had none of that that's what I saw was this particularly since I had no strictures against brewer I loved it actually %HESITATION and I loved passengers and looking closely at complex emergency room health things in Japan a trait that I was involving a philosophy and it was philosophy about mind and abolished in a certain way politics because if you give up the idea of sharpness if you give up the idea that everything has to have enough facts a wind around ishe you find that you're giving up the idea that the world has to have borders and boundaries and you're also moving into a territory that says well I may need those borders and boundaries but my mind does need them my mind is porous and so I would have backed him not just your way of seeing but a way of being and that was really really important to me for quite a long time and again I think that traditional photography people don't quite talk that way and a little outside of the discourse and that's just fine with me going back to your earlier point it's it's a kind of freedom to come and say well yes senior yes streaming yes thinking it's all part of the process and so I really love developing what I'm telling you in two minutes which was in fact a number of years but those years the article was replaced by the digital I couldn't get things developed I couldn't get things printed so are you do you keep those should be optional I mean I'm not very technological I can work with the computer but I don't need to let my work and again that's not exactly anti technology it's not anti Photoshop I'd just like to work with how are you seeing drawback to your fridge and not try to turn it into something that exists between me and the world which is mine manipulation of the world that can be a bit naive sounding close you missing who may be interested in philosophy but it's also true I mean there's just some anyway sure at the level I'm talking when I thought should be digital I started with like an iPhone four year or we're not working with an iPhone and but I continue to get what I want with the new book I'm sure you've noticed a lot of the work isn't inter penetrating isn't forest isn't reflection and I we we have moved into a phase that shows I can have both I can do things that are more well this is what I see and more this is how white banks but many years ago a wonderful man who really cared about my work said Janet you really have to start with a better camera like bought a bunch of other people said it and of course the criterion is are you getting what you want and if I am which I am at this point why learn the whole apparatus of what is in itself a very technologically important art form it's not the way I won't watch that's a really excellent points and it strikes me as well that when you become reliant on the technology the technology does the heavy lifting you you're using very powerful cameras are you're working with different lenses and you're choosing a different lands it becomes stay apparatus that is forming a imagine you're really just pointing it out but it does all the rest of the work in a way and not to adults denigrate that but it's just not as you say it's not what you want that's not what you're looking for and there are lots of people like there he are doing that they're doing it extremely well and they're making incredible images like that but that's the thing it's you making it so it has to be in the exact medium that you want to need it today and I think there's a lot of the static value and that may be the last the end of the year with a sort of meds tack no it's not even low tack it's it's pretty decent stuff in homing iPhone cameras are incredible I think near the old iPhone I have is a Bascom I've ever had in my life he however I know that you know to me because I you know I I know exactly the sort of disposable cameras she you mean and I used it was a lot when I was a teenager you know and then the nineties and early two thousands but I lost a lot of static I actually really like the aesthetic of those older photographs and that sort of lower quality photographs I quite light this is very strange but I quite like odds to talk free inverted commas because they're something spontaneous about it there is something totally unique about it it's an image that's maybe on plans on there something actually quite unique and special about that that I find that's not what you're doing but that's just personal interest I just like that again the contingency of things I suppose on montages passionate about west and boxers the photography so they the more performative side effects so especially with I've been walking I mean what came first did she have the idea that you wanted to do the topic can it be a bike that same or was it you we are finding that you were just going walking and you risk taking photographs and it came from what you were just standing there actually but I will go back for seconds sure I think that what links the people who do this remarkably technologically advanced photographer I'm not talking the people who manipulate on talking about the ones who must cortical straight photography in what I'm doing is that the link is that were ravaged by the world were ravaged by color and texture then sometimes I'll show you something I wish I could think of a good example I think we'll get of my friend Joe and cellist who's just a master at on the textures what one of the things that classical photography on local vision is not classical it's very much your own and I look at I think that's so beautiful and it requires so much knowledge to do that this is not putting down my shelves and it isn't saying that I don't have the sophisticated change on the line I know the I can capture in my way the ravishing the ravishing interjection room color in the world I'm really just pointing to a link between low tech and high tech and that we're both using it I think for this since Aug warning to what's the word I'm looking for ravishing I think you saw the thing on century I write about something called the gas and you're out in the world and you see something and you're just now and are almost instinctive level this is it this is what you are my goodness %HESITATION yes gas click again between the gas and the collectors composition and other things to do some sort of self evident jester WYO that kind of came naturally so I don't want to make a large distinction other than one of honor and respect between the people who capture the world through very high degrees of technology and the very simple forms that I'm using because I think we're both responding to the world engine troubles in the same well I'm trying to recall because you were talking about several things one was the technological in a sense version mark I know you were not in again this simplistic respect but my really wanting to talk about donating %HESITATION but then you remember what else you were saying after that incident really yes there is a bit of a chicken and egg question is hi did depict come a bite sized thing so yes of course of course well you know again the word organic %HESITATION such a cliche but I do believe in it and they're very particular almost biological since your honor I started walking out and they started checking pictures and I got interested in them and I do what we all do which I just love and thats bring the stuff home look at it if you change promising think about it printed out of the home printer try it next other images tries you what they're saying is blue all that kind of thing and I do that every day now I realized pretty much every day that I was checking pictures I was posting them on Instagram which was a new thing for me and your %HESITATION world reckon it should empty shooting and sure people not bastard people should your unusual images and there could be a book sure that's when that became a real possibility as did something else and baggage the initial feeling that I'd heard of seeing emptiness and despair and as I write each are in the introduction to I've been walking the %HESITATION extinguishing of people's aspirations which has a particular product comes from because I've seen it in my parent's life all of that shock started to evolve and I didn't quite know what it was evolving churro just was taking pictures but then someone should remember right it's not so much emptiness and despair or whatever that you're seeing it's human traces in the middle of bash and that went %HESITATION yes that's right old so shortening project it becomes it becomes that's what I'm trying to describe I didn't say I'm gonna do a book about no no no no I'm not even a bomb distortion which is kind of went out there but it be changed again too or maybe repeat too much but we have seen during that time and then I didn't lucky in terms of my professional suppose I have to say career I'm not too fond of that word but it is a reasonable ordinance describe something special because good things have happened like %HESITATION someone seeing the war that person was from Germany she happened to being at my home %HESITATION she happens to be familiar with the world of photography we kept in touch she said I'd like to bring these images to a publisher they said yes and then that was in two thousand seven sixteen century never change and that wasn't the chamber I think they're really wonderful monograph we're wonderful people who I didn't know what was really exciting wrote about my work notably I will I will add distance one in Moscow and still thrilled with this association %HESITATION the director Graham vendors and I have his email in action above because Jones definitely a piece of good fortune but I. centrum work and he said yeah I can see my waiter writing about this and %HESITATION she's seen that book but it's on she arranged for page prose poem because the book is big and it's about seeing the child receive that about my work it's quite a thrilling piece with this book after I felt I had enough questions remember Justin that's J. publisher and they said yes who knows what makes the world turn one's favor or go the opposite direction but these are examples of that much and I loved working with these people and it was all between Berlin where they were insuring Los Angeles and so is all online on June June marvelous designer wear the same wavelength and the chamber production and editorial team could say to me things like well I don't think that's a strong and images that Michael %HESITATION yeah if you're right or no show we made a book we made a very short time a year and a month well all the chicks in the photographs were taken and all the production which which I think is kind of a record of Sir Arthur Foulkes extremist settlers I think it reflects perhaps the urgency and immediacy of that but yeah became a book wonderful that's scripted you've cultivated such a productive relationship then was a publisher that's pretty into here said John I mean I'm wary of keeping me any longer you've been so generous with your time and all of your ideas and everything just have to interrupt and say what's recently Grange is when you're given the opportunity to statements arts and be honest about them and in this particular sometime she wanted candy you know you say things you said before and obviously some of this I thought about that before but I do feel that in this particular conversation I said some things that were new to me which means I learn something so I have to just tell you that it isn't just general I'm sure of it %HESITATION that's really wonderful to hear okay that's great I'm I'm so glad that you feel comfortable enough and that you feel that you've learned something as well I certainly have learned things and not so what this podcast is all about is everybody learning things to her so I'm so glad that that's happened very late and we mentioned before is that we're really just scratching the surface I think here and I know you you need to go so you're so welcome back anytime I've loved this conversation I will love to have more conversations this year I think you're you're fabulous and I think you're working nights something in me at at night said intellectual curiosity that reminds me why I got into all of this in the first grade in addition if you re that's what you want I like your word I tend to think of inspire but I think it's not it's just a marvelous March and if we can do that for other people that's just great %HESITATION passing on the spark I will tell you I know myself very well I get absorbed and that means that I probably will not raise my hands and checked all what can we do this again but if you want to would you contact me and I will say yes in a heartbeat I'm just telling the truth about me because I don't just get absorbed absolutely okay will very quickly before you go I know you've got a website we G. just point our listeners to your website I'll get it in the show notes but if you just say it for them where can we find you online what a something first nobody knows how to spell my name right so I'm gonna %HESITATION stern Berger S. G. E. R. N. B. U. R. G. everyone I won't tell you what everyone does but I want planted in your mind but Bergesen shitty Star City is how it translates if you I kind of like that and because I have a hosted Mexico I sometimes want to say see ya sorry one meter or not you're still a bit one Nita Dane Estrella just see but I I like to think that we're thinking about manage moving back to so if you know that you can find me anywhere I have two websites one is for photography and it is W. W. W. if you want to think that way Janet Sternberg photo dot com Janet Sternberg photo is one word and it's your case and then I have another one and it's for writing what's surprisingly books and that one is W. W. W. G. Sternberg dot com so it's not hard I would have been nice Google Christian so I can be found on the writing website there's a link to the photography one why should one of these days we don't go back maybe yes maybe no so I am find a ball I would love to do phone by and large %HESITATION on the cryptocurrency website up at the top is my email and that's wonderful thank you for that well thank you so much for doing this and I think I definitely will be in touch as she possibly in the new year and to look at and say a lot more stuff I think I love it I love to do you know what you're doing and love to give you a loan New York I'm going to show you something no not really R. O. this year's cannot see this that one holding up is a plastic sheet of %HESITATION you know the kind of thing you can slip photos insurance your ticket nine half by elevens spiral bound and %HESITATION here it is holding it up and you know just which one selfish you know writes a little I don't know something it she says new also it exposed I'd been walking and so course I look at it and I'm trying to find out what it's about you will find its way all right lovely thank you Paula bye bye thank you John thank
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 105 – The Ticking World with Brendon Connelly automated transcript


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hello and welcome to audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts media and cultural production I am polo player and today I'm catching up with Brandon Conley he featured an episode seventy nine back in twenty twenty eight talking about aids the mystery audio drama series circles written by Brandon during the first pandemic looked online if you didn't hear that one do you go back and listen and gave circles I try Terry it's along the lines is what we did ski beach area and the mystery machine brunch B. up T. as grown up sons how to confront their repercussions of their meddling it's really good fun it's very mysterious and it's very well constructed as the sign designs Brady and so do check it all right the links for those are all in the show notes huge thanks to our fob patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures beside their supports in all of the last thing I need to be just a madwoman in the attic talking to herself so thank you so much for letting me be part of your world speaking of worlds we're going to hear about Brandon's latest project the fun to see choose your own adventure advent calendar yes that will make sense as we go three and it's cold the taking world we also go on a little bit of attention to the cinema so do you enjoy all of that and let us know what you think on our socials and those are all in this unit as well do you have fun with this Brendan Conley welcome back yeah it's very it's a hobby we spoke %HESITATION Ryan's this time last year about a year Spanky audio drama series circles which I enjoyed very much and people should go and listen Tay if they haven't already we're going to speak about it something quite different and yea thank you for working on what was she thank you would like to tell us about the taking world so what it is is a calendar and it's also a branching narrative like the brand name everybody knows to trademark brand name everybody knows just choose your own adventures to choose your own adventure books here in the U. K. to fighting fantasy books are very much of a series of ideas have been nine of gamebooks and needs of the self narratives which tend to be do you know what I've completed a bankable and she would be a if it's second class postage you do this you do that you climb a ladder that works of fiction in which the reader is presented with a series of choices at the end of different passages if you would pick the choose your own adventure book without entry was in the and then at the end they might say if you want to go on the bus with Jane go to page thirty eight if you want to stay home with Kate go to page one hundred and fourteen and as you go through a narrative comes to light and I've taken that and put it in the shape of a calendar so that each of the pops has to last the same duration and the idea is that the read to read to page each day %HESITATION and I'm not totally sure stuff to pull over there is something there but choose your own adventure choose your own adventure the idea of advent calendars and I was thinking at first but I've been kind of a little windows all you know you know I think would it be possible to sort of do a sort of a web across one of those repeat Jeez that pop that it's over bowled into something of a local pros in it so it's now a fully illustrated and each day of the month you will in fact have multiple pages and you will end up turning to the last page of the day leaving that display that you'll illustrated kind of debate for that day of December I'm taking a choice at the box okay formally speaking that's what it is but that doesn't really tell us much about what it really is I wonder if because he leave it overnight say before you go on to the next one you've got quite a while to the mullet over your choice if you could change your minds this is interesting this is a different spin on this what I remember as a kid living check my family's roots or chest where if you've got your hands still on the case you can take the move back I look if you haven't removed you'll have to the beach you can dial it way back and I suppose the house rule there might be as long as you have it towed to the page you have a major choice yet but the moment you turn the pages there's no going back but everybody knows with each game books that you keep your father may face you don't like the passage into everybody go yourself this is common practice to readers and I think that's something interesting about them already because instead of giving you a linear narrative in which things unfold you do this sort of way of cheating I suppose a prince of peace so that's a parallel diverging Pasti I was placed in the system you're aware of that being parallel and divergent paths because you being off at them you get some sense of what they owe if you cheat not that I'm encouraging J. tank I will say no to give too much away %HESITATION deflate this once I would like to think that you could put it away and come back to it next year hang on the wall take different paths make for different choices and you know what if you don't want to play so we will play like a pro we want to put all the one day I'm not going to stop you but it is designed to facilitate day by day place she spent twenty five days in this world and the world that you mentioned what kind of world is this because it's not quite our world it's a little bit different this net it's really the all world it might look like it it still says it was opened %HESITATION tional mole also been trusted in these ideas of of north we think of cold and snow and Aurora borealis in the north star and these cultural ideas that speak into things like Philip Pullman's books or even on the air and and it seems to be a sort of a non denominational fantasy of winter in okay is an exploration of ideas of north literally after I mean literally %HESITATION bordering Iraq and exploring these ideas of dental so I've taken things from fables of taking things for folklore and of course having new and particular specific cabinet and decide if you go into it the mole some of the particulars of this fantasy world help you navigate to it a little bit four one vote but whether expressing about spoiling anything you'll start to recognize tubs and things like that so for example if we were to go pick up we would go to a bookstore with but pick up ten fantasy novels and bring them home we still have some sort of sense of what Google play might be right but each of those will go play might be something slightly different so %HESITATION that would complete does not appear in that checking will believe it it would mean a particular thing it would be if you know you'll get better idea of what it Killy beings in this world is the narrative goes on so yes it's it's over designed five two zero so does the oaks so if I trick of taking it for granted that you know what these words are so you're kind of them enough times that state or let you do that well it's a it's a full immersion I think it's the it's the policy that so this did not open world and and it begins with the explorer and the reader who is is not in any way the following bill described you imagine them as yourself %HESITATION whoever you wish wishes to be exploring them all and they hear ticking as they go to investigate is taking and the story is driven by that I don't know each other and I'm Kyra C. close to giving away some things that might might affect people's choices either it won't take but a self a virtue of this format ready that also so things can be left a big US Straley when I say you to somebody I don't want to impose any notion of gender or age were %HESITATION of race or ethnicity even background this person could literally be anybody and I think that became a bit proposal into writing because I so I think you what what what if it's a person it would form of disability really and I don't want them to sort of take for granted that you know this this is risking a log me your stories that try to be divested available so many things and it kind of becomes impossible to appoint to be old old things so I suppose in a sense there are some limitations on who the characters because they need to be someone who couldn't enact toll of the choices and sometimes I suppose it comes down to you're making a choice between them being let's just say positive or negative and the choice you may the fight to the L. but the in reality %HESITATION Mary actually should someone could make a lot of the situations of our limit the number six a five this is dealt a mile say this calendar pretty chunky but there are limited choices are available to be sent I had to wake up to the fact that some of the choices by physically but also sold behavior related to the explorer playa reader to choose would create some still aren't raised to what the character is but I didn't want those to be along normal lines all lubricated %HESITATION presumptive representation Rainey yes eight I noticed that you very kindly sent me a bit of a preview in early drafts well the first few pages really of an earlier drafts so I've got a good sense of that will anyone they M. use the protagonists asset and carpenter well there is there is no sense of gender or %HESITATION what they might look like yeah it's just a very blank right you're talking to a person and a lot yes and I appreciate the products they are I really like fast I think that's a very thoughtful decision one thing needed though it that isn't so kind is that you've left me at a very exciting point where I'm going right well this is that this is just check an off night I don't know what happens next so you're still not going you've come to life story I was once a Askey the illustrations are so important I kind of race three just reading the tax on a race now we need to actually take a moment said X. ray these really gorgeous illustrations that are with each paying it's because I think there's information and RMI on the right line start with that yeah so this is a big subject actually well I think first things about the illustration of the bite by Evans who is tremendous early in development we looked at a few different styles the what we decided to go with it and the one that Myers executed his stupid spotted really in a sense by this adventure was to keep the skeptical to bring one man said it's just a sort of a strong sense of a journal or critical care which applies it to the calendar for my business over a little being kept to the images it is quite right that actually to a lesser greater stand with different images there is information in the averages that should reveal more about this world and depending on how you interpret it includes some of the choices you right now I'm going to say there's a right or a wrong choice in the enemies can give you a clue to the right choice I don't think that's actually quite raw eat again it would spoil too much to get too far into that this study things in the images that can be reflected in the Poland quite literally interpreted I'd say yes so you've seen something I'm curious what did you say that you thought might constitute a %HESITATION extreme formation in the images or clip of some description I'm not sure much to say I can cut decide if this gives too much away but there's a moment where the venture is in one of the choices walking on ice and see something in the ice right right that's all right to say for you can say that I won't say what it is but I just feel that there might be some idea of what could be going on the bigger picture of what could be going on I get a feeling from a or it could be just a a total deflection or something I don't know but their status so that image was very interesting if you know the one I'm talking about I know exactly the image you're talking about I think that some of the images to trading interpretable clues the images nothing medically relevant and some of the images of the which means that sometimes you be presented with a choice where you can reflect on any sort of everybody say well I I think I learned that I'm going to make this choice the other times I think which is %HESITATION digging down to what's below the surface what will really are subtext is priced too strong a word for what's fundamentally a alike adventure story really but yeah there are ideas in the images and I think what you are speaking to that is a sense of now that you've seen that image something that's going on takes on an extra level of meaning for you and how do you not seeing it then it wouldn't but you may have seen something else that would create a different so that's what we're still playing with that really shows some of the images adds levels of official story interpretation and some might influence choices I'm thinking it as well in terms of maybe the idea of time travel and the paths not taken I thank you she said you know you can go back and you can play it again and then you can take the past that you didn't take before so it feels a bit time traveling if you think about it in those terms %HESITATION that's probably just me overloading on sci fi at the moment well put dates of the pages certainly leads to the use of associations as much as anything else yeah I mean you know what thinks of doc brown's diagram of the chalkboard legs during open gym and to talk a little about how these plans I've got a flow chart that looks like a very complicated but I should have done really this is a tree you start a single point in any partisan approaches in it brunches and he noted that the multi verse model this notion of power all time lines is exactly that's right its choices %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION interactions create in %HESITATION tentative actually is so yeah I think because you didn't change your adventure books is is %HESITATION wasting all right D. is all what could you be but I think because what's unique about our Victrola there as opposed to a calendar is a calendar will take several years to come around again Intel eight states line up with the day each but as long as we keep the same number of days in December which I suspect for quite some time will be doing that it's ideally useful you know there's no reference to what I did we cure upside so in a sense it's it's a trip you can take I nearly totally within its design it's very much reusable nothing gets told %HESITATION brick and though it sort of does encourage you to write things down I'll take notes Jordy do your own sketches you don't have to do that on the calendar itself only interested on a sketch book or not so it remains intact ready and that's not necessarily faster if you know you don't have to adhere to the same question calendar or anything it's just it's own story and it's just happening to safely yes yeah I think it's just this idea of Knowles I think will be the American TV shows are they say holiday special and that's over the object to the word Christmas of the and I don't mean this in any way reflect poor people with Facebook the word Christmas has a lot of secular power as well right I mean it means a lot to people who don't celebrate asked Christians it's under the word Christmas doesn't appear anywhere else the notion that we have a window when the festival you know what I mean this in a way that is supportive of also buttresses this Christine Christmas it's not undermining not because of us right sorry there is still you know it's Christmas is tough I've been in effect one of the early pieces of research I I did into this we're looking into who like have it kind of does why they got them what they did with them and you know because there hasn't been one like this I think people like the idea of ritual having something to do every day and I think a lot of people just like getting a little chocolate for the event calendar right looking for million I would was like a little toys and and chocolate and this does not contain chocolate I'm afraid Zacks but the only every day there is something there for you and you know the original ideas I should do it was going to be no text shares of of small images and we you know we'll come on to something much bigger and I think the difference is but they're small images it didn't feel like you were being given much of the day you know Meyer myself well people to to enjoy each day you find out we also to what would happen is what would happen okay the old time narrative book is what's going to happen right that's what Powell is every story what happens next and this cheap way to get steaks did something about it is if it's in the hands of the read %HESITATION Explora so so their actions do have repercussions so immediately straight away there is some interest in what what's gonna happen because I've made this choice every day does deliver that but every day we deliver at least one I get noticed but I think at least one of my images and I'd like to think the best you haven't seen the best yet they come to that later this summer some things to to move to old time the story starts to click into place and you get old the rewards of a story I'm one of those things are quite keen to do all of us to think about even though it's brought Jake how can I make sure that these stories help us have a structure that folks suffering to people it follows I think conventional narrative practice of a story with a beginning a middle and something in the middle change you shift your perspective significantly and as you get towards the end things seem to be more Fulton the hope goes out of the picture a little bit you can rally round and round resulting check quite a sort of a you know that there's a there's a story struck J. that is familiar from thousands of years of of stories he doesn't want the from that because you're making these choices enter the things always quite adamant that it was going to do the job so that it fits into a twenty five days for events to the metal part of you you know you don't reach a dead end of a seven eight inch cock there are security venture books for your choice it might take you four passages data so much that you fifty four passages in here you're moving for twenty five days no the way twenty five pages but twenty five days also you know descent so the story unfolding it's not stop stop it's going to flow and it's not just a broken chair the event because I truly don't see our big should anyway would you like to receive updates thanks and special offers straight to your inbox and visit audio visual cultures tower presto com to sign up to our mailing list a couple things it really strikes me is that it is on paper it's a physical calendar it's not digital the choices I mean so many of us have had to spend a lot of our lives the past couple of years on our computers so it feels quite refreshing that it almost feels like part of their resistance against the digital and a sense there's lots and then the feeling of them being drawings there's almost a life in the states here being taken on that journey and the choices that you have to make you know your your autonomous to a degree and the story that you're not a passive reader or consumer you are an active agent and the story and I think those are sayings yeah that really stand out for me about this project they know this is a shade light is actually because to be to be the most thing in case you would do things like take notes and that would be a physical access if you do keep a note pad and I mean it does ask you to keep up so again very simply the start you told a few items you have the %HESITATION infantry unless you go through the store you will lose on the choir of right to set the my simple level keeping a record of well I have a small lamb well I I you know I I'm carrying this style the of a not to spoil it I need to objecting counted but you keep the title of those adults can influence the choices that are available to you at different points so for example if you got a big cocaine to come across a big gulp padlock you can unlock it and if you don't you can help so at the most basic level yes you're actually do a physical exam but there are other things you may wish to recording right down old drawl at various points you know I don't know if it's necessarily resistance to digital through and through because every bit of me that thinks of an old engine won't stay stitch thing then they should have and that sort of one of the big debates I think you made you're very much at the moment so compare this to set of hours I will include film shouldn't be getting released hello to mediate Lee what is this available for reaming sentiments in cinema and it's like in a sentence of a former democratic action really there are people who could bill would choose to go to the cinema and I think if cinema construct and I love shimmer bubble and I love it bubble ass but haven't been since before the pandemic and I'm not totally sure about not to hurry back if CinemaCon exist and survive on its own terms it doesn't have a god given right to no I don't thank I find it very difficult to believe that cinemas will close I never read you as low as somebody once said it must be a problem well they may become expensive they may become prohibitively expensive one thinks of how much it can cost to go to the state that sometimes but if maybe they've made with super academic symbolic because well just remember that should both does the keep much of the ticket price portion of told Mike to be given away to the distributor so let's just say that economically film exists to be on streaming services and in terms of its income the seminars cherry on top then cinema can be priced Filippi Philippians still so in my mind if audiences will to stay home and watch a film on on Netflix that's great that's fantastic that's not to say they should be told to it same time being to you know we're living in a in characters of Poland and we're gonna play by any of those folks are going to really which we can play by any of them but we are going to play by the rules then you know I want James Bond hi now so I've got to stay away it's just it's an army infantry factor but %HESITATION well I would love to stay home %HESITATION a very large number of films at home rather than in cinema the calls cinema is not too suitable presentation standards at the moment %HESITATION balls and I'm having to step to the projection was often but I'll concede to unruly cinemas to go learn the hard way that they're going to do this stuff right to survive then they gonna have to just learn the hard way right but it was a race to the ball %HESITATION instead of us I think greatly and it should be just yet so we get a margin in the Lenovo tale of things like secret cinema we got to watch them I'm checking on people being underpaid and exploited stress optical was playing in disruptive about we projected film being played through office because it wouldn't fit in somewhere also on you know I don't want to go to the cinema ownership on people eating eating their meals in the cinema listen up with anything off a technician was making the wrong choices what it really needs to do is it really needs to present a vast array of films or suitable array of films present it perfectly and affordable price stamp dental people talking using the funds for the film I mean it's really that simple and here we are talking about and I think hello Joe somehow I've ported around today no I haven't but I think the idea is just the same for me if people do it is calendar the dates for long term I think I'm going to probably try to find some way to make that happen I actually ate even if it was a print your own version of it or something I think it's conceived as a physical October it's intended to be sure hangs on the wall you cannot concede there couple thoughts that you think about your choices I think if they think I'm not expecting to be able to sit right it is kind of the striking a gym for an hour every day that's it you know show a raffle or full to read on every page you get the next step is that we get an image you reflect upon it that's it it requires a bit more engagement the popping a chuckle but any amount but you're not reading a book about a truck from another guy but it's nice I think that it is basically a and it has to function if only you would think the separatist but also it was lovely pictures just growing up the area responsible for money this except it is supposed to be a sort of a part time companion then I think it one of the things I often fall but this was about casual gamers playing on mobile phones and help you get on the bus you get three minute and I'm quite a couple play some of the census resigned because they come from why you come to it the convenience fee on the day you enjoy it for a moment and then did you but if it's not like sitting down for three hours to try to plow through the next %HESITATION legend of Zelda game or something like it takes a different space you know it was life I think really I like the idea that you can't get away with here if you do Christmas decorations for example you could pack it away with your Christmas decorations and reuse it year after year after year the way we probably did too and when we were younger he had your regular ornaments and your decorations and everything Sir calendars I remember from when I was a kids that didn't have chocolate on them but it is you have you opened a nice picture every day and that sort of thing so I quite like that idea if it that it's not just this disposable saying full of plastic and it's going into a landfill it can be something that can be passed on actually maybe China family and people can do it together or they can do it on their own you know it's a really lovely idea I think it's a deliberately titlist choices in the in the soap setting in the in the time it's not top culinary delight I don't think this would have been impossible twenty thirty forty years ago to see the same story told in a similar way and the forward I think it's going to where I live so I would like to think that people would get more than one run through this in the east you know it does invite you to want to find out what might have happened this is Ted I'm not stopping anyone second on December the festive during every day for a month because I know it but it's designed to facilitate one day at a time December after December to December and I was placed in a way it's quite nostalgic and that's quite a nostalgic practice and I think the idea of the soul of a seasonal stories quite nostalgic anyway %HESITATION you know evoked nine year old the snow queen %HESITATION or things like that when we were talking about this idea of a of a north before being on the tongue with we've adopted it doesn't fit with that same so nostalgic sense of one of one right this Locri nor had the sickening read to them as a as a child and I think it's a functionalized quite deliberate eventually the same ideas I think that brings to mind a point it's not aimed at young reading age per se but they're reasonable age for less if you want to save your child and make each choice is with them it was definitely perfectly fine I think I think one will compare the price and it just over a Y. a level of price but the subject matter is much more suitable age appropriate one of the interesting things about making something like this one of the challenges in making something like this was how do you make it not only satisfying now how do you give the suggestion that the satisfaction to be had from doing a game how do you let people know right you prove to yourself that suspects did twice by doing it twice how do you have any kids that's just the one that what I think quite pull in branching narratives generally is to make the choice is filled out I've got white before you take the so when you're presented with a push to get some sense of of white and I think most stores telling her to read them in the first sections right so if you're reading a another whole police over the local you'll read it in the first chapter so the first few days of the S. should teach you in some sense that there is white two big decisions and decisions to stop feeling like I've got my story Poland's before you make them and then delivering on on that yeah I took down the line okay I think it's important to note Michael of the repercussions of media you know it's not a series of what I did that to Morrow ninety tomorrow it's not the choice I make sure they can have repercussions at any point during the remainder of the of the narrative and as long as it ties back in their system the strong narrative thread to the calls of the fact already clear that it really pays off of the stakes are established by the choice of the coast you know in it here we go we're talking about and I have a challenge that I have to keep reminding myself that the H. first and foremost it's supposed to be really but if the choice is also a good topic for it but I think it would be much less as far yes there are choices that are presented certainly and then if there are any part that I've seen so far that seems that they're not maybe that he jailed but then a couple of days later you go home okay it is that idea of right okay maybe I need to just take more time to think Siri my decision so you even have a choice and how you make your choices are you going to just go right and she had to flee this is what I'm deciding and that's what I'm saying and no deliberation or are you going said maybe there's a correct if you're a couple of unions you go right if we do that what if something like this happens Sir you know see it go off and then you can have your own tendencies that you come up with S. and maybe that says up it up by a high my brain works I'm the sort of person who does that anyway and I think it be a nice idea if there's anyone he hasn't got such near divergence as a nice idea for you to try something like this to show you what it's like to have a brand like that where you're going this is a network of all the stuff that could possibly happen in the next ten years well I think you're speaking to help by bright but also maybe in the sense that this is that it is active I thought this is that right latest bringing other people into this though world view a few years ago I wrote a feature film screenplay which contains a murder mystery plot and when I was giving it to readers to get nights early all I gave them a in installments and the reason I gave that to them in installments it's H. at these points I wanted somebody that they didn't know what was coming ahead but I needed to take the temperature what they thought was coming ahead because particularly with a murder mystery %HESITATION particular many fold Mr assuming that hangs on a full of twist you need to know that you've established people's preconceptions correct me anything currently that you've tricked them into making the right assumptions and if I gave them the whole thing they might reflect on on the internet or TV in a way that isn't particularly accurate to their experience as like going through it but by stopping them by PH ng that reaction a each of these points I got quite clear result which clues were too obvious which clicks with no obvious enough and I hope each of calibrate so phone sections with told really I don't suppose that was as of a diagnostic tool for for that has no relationship with this so it does have a clear relationship how people really do experience a product you all thinking wrote are you watching a feature film but you don't stop and necessary this guy right here I am we were talking about streaming video I think actually props I have as much below than it did in the past people post things maybe didn't have a toll from where IT record actually talk for a big narratives at the moment really well just look all ready to roll the ball to look at things like Westworld deconstructing whether plot might be going on or what's going to happen and I think a lot of TV series even though they are delivered for once there is a tie viewing at the moment to encourage ourselves discussion between between episodes I suppose in a way this day by day shares of Troy you should still does enable us to act upon they still favors the thought surely but it seemed to me well I learned most of all from giving people sections of this the screenplay to raid a time was actually like Sharon bag January before getting things that they full earlier all good move dogs totally their tear protection and lost a connection to the to the area once and I'm very interested to see however the full twenty five days of the taking world how connected people remain to what the world looks like from what the story seems to be the first five days as opposed to the next ten days as opposed to ten days off the bat because things do change it's part of the former you get to stop and reflect on what way you are and do you think there's a is there a way that you can get feedback from people he are starting to use sets and is there an online presence for the calendar at the moment it just has a couple of social media accounts are run by may %HESITATION wondering how I'm going to to engage more I think one of the things are mostly people to keep a sketch pad or night Patton I think they're taking notes which is very interesting because I couldn't do all the courage of the sketch to a soft credit there %HESITATION so image tips over budget no it would be so powerful images to what was done so instead of sketching the element of the data she strolled maybe do another one also I think that might be quite an interesting thing to say because a lot of this is I think it's true full illustrated stories ready and that the allowable happens elicited near starvation hi Sir it's a it's like it's like trying to depict a scene from a movie one frame from from a movie so I think that if people to keep social Rachael dislike Karlovy actually fascinating to see it but for me the most imposing is that they just enjoy the way that a dangerous with it really as much as I'd like to see what it is I think this is the raise the ticket world I absolutely would love to see any notes or images you crave from going through but really the important thing is not me saying that but the act of making them in the enjoyment that comes up making the yeah that's it it just occurs to me it might be quite fun for people to come up with a drawing or some impression of what their explorer looks like because they necessarily have to be a human and if he or if you choose to be human activity are quite cartoony looking human and all sorts of things he could go quite creative with that I think would be quite fun I think so I think so and even even the first page not to give anything away introduces another character who is not vision I like I imagine and hope that the rate all manner of things for the character yeah okay fine so I think that the big important question is where is this going to be available where can people get a copy of the taking rounds calendar so we shopped around to try to find a publisher for this people public religious were not interested because there's nothing else like it so maybe in the future will be able to walk into a branch of big bookshop will department store here picking up at the moment we self publish and you have to buy it from us directly so we set up an Etsy shop and all of the links are available through a Twitter account called the taking world so if you gotta act to taking world you could see some images you can find some links you can engage with us and perhaps even get some hands and we can direct you to where where you can order the ticking modem we will post it to you as I said before I'm interested in seeing if people want some some digital version of this and if they do then I'll try to find a way to make that possible but first and foremost there will be here hopefully be springing up people's bulls this December and that's the idea that we've got all physical copies in hand that quite a substantial its job after you pick up its overthrow bleak calendar you get some so said that the court which speaking really but there's a bit more depth to this but it is designed to comfortably and happily hang on then I will double or however you want that's the picture book I would be willing to spend it it has a calendar binding so it hangs up right if you will just sitting on the table top or any other way than the network works tonight what I will exchange at a stage of people looking to buy this internationally than me fast because %HESITATION %HESITATION international prestige times really bad at the moment share specially %HESITATION yeah well I will get all of the relevant links and show notes for our for this is going to pay and shared on our socials as well so people can easily find those thanks thank you I must say Brandon as well I do appreciate because it you are not already interesting times in their earlier up eight the state of sentiment today and I just appreciate that your thoughts on months because I haven't really talked to anybody about that kind of saying and I think we're of one mind it's a lot of those issues so I just wanted to put that right there because it's not really something I've managed to discuss with anybody it just hasn't come up before so a depreciate am making those analogies to silence right I feel like he had something to get off your chest air so I'm glad you feel like you should see that here I spent twenty years writing about film as a fellow journalist if I'm old enough I spent twenty years doing it so more or less that's my job and it seems like for most of the time we were on the cusp of a revolution so access to films hi I was gonna become more more possible and several times in the past it seems like films TV agents distributors were ridiculous trying to S. and of course I'm so catalyzed into doing a lot more during the pandemic many still explore tree and and then Joe models that works I haven't quite lined up but the one thing I found quite interesting about this was the decision to pull the green light from its original cinema release date Craig hello for role in the U. K. O. D. J.'s about input from from cinemas and they're like what's going on what's going on and then they will I know if you're straight to streaming %HESITATION because the rumors going on okay stretch streaming people quite cross or frustrated about that because hello what happened when the film was then released simultaneously in cinemas and on streaming is that the majority of these people would kick up a fuss force down streaming anyway in that don't quite understand what people still are they need to be held hostage to the cinema to go to the cinema you are available to go to the cinema %HESITATION you don't if you don't really what do you need all of our bodies removed I don't understand the psychology of it I think that's what we're really dealing with business open audience assistant mark dominant Cinemark preferable it's preferable in so many ways but is not functional at the moment yeah I I getting involved white but largely because British side but %HESITATION if people want to go to the cinema they should just go to the cinema really it's not simple Ribbentrop make everybody else go to the cinema I don't understand the logic but anyway yes definitely something frustrate me and as somebody who %HESITATION shielded from the pandemic image has a degenerative lung condition is quite concerned about people in in a similar position of people who don't have a lot of my the field of the option to pull waste they time they treat it like a different class of audience but they yeah yeah in my will prevail even if they all close down but I would open again I guarantee it yeah because it offers a totally different experience but I agree with some of the points she made our day or that I just have such sensitive hearings that count cope with other people's noise when I'm trying to be immersed in a film right and that was a real problem for me I wasn't going to the cinema as much anymore before the pandemic partly because of that I just couldn't cope with people have an account chapter in a quiet place or you know %HESITATION ready mountains right popcorn during really inappropriate serious films you have to stop stuff like that I have is other people's behaviors I was really struggling with as well as how much of this call thank you for all of those reasons I mean I have felt quite bad for not wanting to go back anyway and cinemas a grade that is similar to a a it's a great love of my life you absolutely should not yeah yeah you should know it's it's a disservice to a string of religious imagery for dental delivering what they should in the nineteen nineties I programmed films or cinema for a while and I put some silent films of the program well I mean actually silent no I'm going to buy music but genuinely sorry I love simple jeans if did not know what today they didn't know I was just shocked they just couldn't cope with it and this was audiences are what what Michael enough traction among you know the best night of the structure for trouble this is not an obscure or difficult film this is incredibly successful crowd pleasing fell but for the fact that it doesn't have conventional soundtrack in a sense in fact we played the treaty silently and the audience couldn't shut up and I don't know what it is and there's some sort of conditioning towards towards noise I think maybe maybe it's intuitive all I can sit home and watch a watch a film we're not talking to anybody either full of so I don't quite know what people when when there's multimillionaire other people there who made an effort to make money or toe to watch a film as it was intended between cultures shut the hell up you know I don't know really sure somebody go sit in the back row of but in a limited pre or something you wouldn't expect them to be called in eating popcorn quote ballet yeah it's really not the coach but it does light pollution is much simpler so much because right now some of the cameras and things like that phone companies well it's good to have a rerun tonight he sings and and to scare there well that does you broaching or two for you we've brought stuff into a completely different poker well I love it up and then it's just so lovely to speak to you again %HESITATION I always really enjoy our time together and it feels like you're an October regular fast becoming so you're welcome back anytime this time this year that a whole new thing in the completely different medium I think I think that's my my ambition pullers to talk to you once a year about something in a completely different medium that's a snake at Dale happy with that well thank you so much it's been great Brendan thanks