transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 49 – Reframing Vivien Leigh with Dr Lisa Stead automated transcript


please support our Patreon to help us provide accurate transcripts

this is audio-visual cultures the podcast exploring different aspects of cultural production I’m Paula Blair and in this episode and Rochelle and I are delighted to be joined by dr. Lisa stead during her trip to Newcastle to present research from her reframing Vivian Leigh project hello and thanks to our members at patreon.com forward slash a V cultures if you’re listening and you want to support you can also donate to libera PACOM /pe a Blair or PayPal dot me /pe a Blair where money received reimburses me for costs and cars and making the podcast I’ll be back at the end with more details on how you can support and get in touch for an I do enjoy listening to Lisa and I kind of sit between English and film and that University of my research sits between those students you’ve been doing some really exciting research but Vivian Lee for the past few years we’d like to tell us a benefit so my research before that was it was actually about women’s writing in the interwar period so it’s not an immediate connection to Vivian Leigh but what I’ve done before it’s been more about cinema going and how women write about going to movies and process what it means to go to the movies in that period and how it forms ways of thinking through identity etc so I’ve always been slightly more interested in film culture rather than film texts a big part of that has been working with archival material and film ephemera University of Exeter there’s a museum on site I don’t if you have a bin yeah the build up with cinema museum which is this fantastic collection of pre cinema early cinema film culture ephemera so has everything except actual movies magazines cigarette cards toys games scrapbooks letters etc so I’ve always been connected to that collection as a teacher and a researcher they happen to have quite a lot of stuff about Vivian Lee amongst many of their other stars they also happen to have Vivian E stuff specifically because she had a Southwest Connection which not many people know about because they think of her as this big Hollywood global star so what do you think of Venini you tend to think of Blanche DuBois you think of Scarlett O’Hara you probably think less about Topsham or Devon but it so happens that before she became a star before she was a professional actress she was born in India and then she came over to live in the UK and then she spent some time in Devon with relatives in the late 1920s and when she was there she met a man called Lee Holman at the time she was called Vivian Hartley and she met a man called Lee Holman who was a London barrister who had his Devon connection and the myth goes that she spotted him out riding I think at riding it’s very kind of Austin and said oh that’s the man I want to marry and he happens to look like lovely Howard into the great connection forward to her so anyway she married this man Lee Holman and in the early 1930s they lived in London but they kept a very strong connection to Devon which is his home and where his family were from so his sister Dorothy Ullman founded a museum in Topsham which this little mystery village town in South Devon she got on very well with Vivian Lee and she also kind of followed her career as a fan throughout her life and as a consequence materials from the Viennese career when she became an actress she became a local star have ended up in this little Museum in Topsham and they’ve also ended up in the Royal Albert Memorial Museum Ram which is the main museum minister because to option is so someone couldn’t hold all of the materials that they had so what you find is in RAM and int option museum and the book Douglas in my museum you have these bits and pieces these traces that connect back to this global style that come through that family connection before she was Vivian Lea before she was connected to Laura I basically got asked to speak at some memorial event so that maybe you need to represent the bill Douglas Museum probably sort of 2010 ish and that sparked my interest and it’s been on the backburner since then and then in the last years it’s just become a kind of central focus and yeah one of my colleagues said to me you should pretty much look about that okay so now it’s become a book that even isn’t about Vivien Leigh so I’m working on a book about her archives Laurel and she’s sort of the case study for thinking through stardom and star labor and the creative work of performance on the stage in the screen through archival traces of materials and she’s the central case study so there’s a book but I’m writing at the moment this journal next year with Oxford University Press and then connected to that there’s an HRC project and that is very much about the local museums and thinking about how those materials have been curated how you can tell regional stories through global stars wow I’ve been following you quite a lot you the project has been tweeting knots of shadows from their clothes and things have been as it past dies for a family yes yeah it’s kind of a common dress history project in the hallways which is not what I expected there’s a research assistant working on a project called Becky Ray’s fantastic she has a lot of experience and knowledge of working with textile history and we’ve been working with curators at topsail museum and ran and looking at their holdings because most of what they have dress materials so what’s really interesting about that is they were donated through Vivian E’s daughter to her Aunt Dorothy Holman and then they ended up a prominent option Topsham museum has a nightdress for the set of Gone with the Wind mm-hmm that Vivien Leigh was allowed to keep apparently she could pick one or two items and that’s the item that she chose interestingly of all the dresses although I assume that but he wouldn’t have let her had the green cone I imagine they would let that happen so that’s it Topsham and then it ran they have a couple of evening dresses and there was to have a broad tail dress so I didn’t know what broad tail was until very recently and I wish I didn’t know what broad tail is really it’s made from the skins of unborn Lambs oh my god it’s a really particular very expensive you’d have to have this custom-made for you kind of textile and they have this black broad tail dress actually they were given to Dorothy at Topsham and then they were then passed on to RAM in the mid 70s and there are some great letters from Suzanne the daughter viennese daughter saying I have this problem I can’t store these materials anymore would you be interested in them Museum so you have this broad tail dress that’s kind of decadent wonderful revolting movies in textile history that was Vivien Leigh’s dress and then you have two other dresses that were Vivian leaves that Suzanne then altered so they are hers but the silhouette is very different so physically those two women were incredibly different they’re doing is very very miniscule very petite Suzanne had a very different kind of silhouette so you’ve got these really fascinating objects that have sort of two spectral women having inhabited them and then they end up in this regional space and they pass through Dorothy home and the collector the curators and carry all these different histories of different women using these dresses living in these dresses connections to the star in a severely and then the more normal quote-unquote life of her daughter Suzanne who didn’t move in those circles and then they end up here and ran so when you’re holding them in your hands you’re sort of holding Suzanne’s stories in these stories but also the stories about the women who decided these had value kept them collected them preserved them sometimes in the face of policies of curation in those institutions that didn’t really place the same value on these materials because dress history women’s history is not as interesting or a serious as some of the other items that those institutions hold so the more I look into it there’s a kind of fascinating lines of women preserving these materials deciding they have certain kinds of values thinking about the stories and passing those stories down so an awful lot of what these centers hold all those textile materials I mean that tactility of the materials fascinating as well because when you’re thinking about anything to do with film history it’s usually things you can’t necessarily touch in the same way yeah or things that you look at but that embodiment you know of a garment there’s something you know that like it’s a living breathing human person you saw occupy that space within that thing oh yeah absolutely I can discuss all details about that stains on them oh yeah look for little sweat marks of makeup marks it’s those things that are more for me personally I found those things absolutely fascinating that there lived in material people have different reactions to them so this is sort of more the kind of fan reaction and I don’t mean this dismissively is to be overruled by it being something that she has touched and then if you talk to one of the curators the way they look at it is fascinating because they can just see spilling forth from it all the stories about Couture the designers who they would have liaised with which furrier in London they might have interacted with to have this made and then I look at it and I think you know I’m interested in how does that connect those human stories about passing the tools on what does that tell you about stardom in film history so I love how when you have a dress on display you have all these different you know Donnie Darko where they have to spin it makes me think of a sphere is coming out of these dresses leading all these different directions that are more or less interesting to different people but I find those really tapped ideas as fascinating of marks things the impression of someone having been in this in some ways it’s different kind of feeling to a signature or a letter those are the kinds of collector items with story I remember a time back in the previous millennium you might have been the year 2000 I think probably something like 1999 when a Chaplin costume was loaned temporarily to what was then the bill Douglas Center yes in a museum I’d love to get changed at all in that renaming its don’t cave it was a little bit sad because nobody thought to get a mannequin ah to put the costume on so it was just kind of laying down inside a display cabinet and was also a bit of local press and the curator at the time so I’ll tell you what is I’ll model it right I think it was has to hate in those characters like this century at the time but quite quickly realized that chaplains a tiny guy yeah and also that she probably had better not even try and force any old worn garments anti-social model in the sense of draping it across the floor so there’s a lot of logistical problems with just exhibiting these material objects and this does seem to be one of the lovable oddities about because cinema museum is it’s almost committed to not preserving copies of films even copies of scraps of films it’s almost minted in not doing that because the stuff that gets thrown away around the edges yeah things like the particular boxes of sweets that are sold in cinemas and aren’t sold somewhere else for example facts or value for preservation and that’s hardly specific to the Builder Center but it is rare you’ve wondered in the cinema Museum in Lambeth as well that’s kind of let’s keep this thing which is a dispenser from the toilet impulse so this is why I am extremely happy that I’ve managed to get Lisa okay because it’s a little bit like the thing we do every year at the British silent film festival symposium for just once I’ve managed to be in the same room as somebody else you’ve abused this kind of historical material and I must confess that I lived in to option for a year and never went to the museum in spite of the fact that it having one item a lot more but it was we’ve got this dress yeah was its main marketing method was we’ve got this I never thought I wonder how so I’m from their course since have gone yeah so it’s good to finally yeah I know it’s interesting a few other things are saying now about displaying items that’s an interesting choice it’s just very positive when we were trying it so we’ve been making 3d models of these dresses so with the idea that you can get closer to them when you things you are not allowed to touch how can you get closer and see some of those details so we’re creating these 3d models that allow you to go extremely close and look underneath in a row and when we were doing that we had to mount them and her dresses only fit one child mannequins because she was so small so you can’t use the standard mannequins for it I’m relatively new to working with textiles I just didn’t realize how much goes into thinking through the logistics of doing that so when you think about putting it on I can hear the Conservatives from Erasmus dreaming about the idea of doing that because you have to think carefully about weight about how you hang it about whether you pin something about trying to give the impression of the way it was born without distorting it and passing I’m completely obsessed with the kind of debris of cinema as a lived thing I find it fascinating when we teach with those collections because you get out things like fan magazines or something I’ve written a lot about but you also get out things like ticket stubs or we hold things in that museum like false eyelashes at the stars when the 40s or the 50s or just those real random junk and students have really different reactions to it either they find it fascinating or it completely turns them on there’s nothing there and it’s a real effort to try and find a way into it and then every now and then you get someone who has that same kind of reaction to it where they just love it and they’re fascinated but it’s challenging stuff to work with because it’s charmingly mundane and then trying to think about how to analyze it at other story about it can be if it’s challenging because it requires all these different skills it’s like how do I place this why what does this tell me about anything about the history I think you and I may have at the same impulse behind our phd’s because uh phd’s if I remember correctly are based on the same type of resource maybe not exactly the same resource yeah and I’ve been there my PhD was based on reading all of the British film phone magazines in the Beau Douglas Center from the 1910s and that you some few years later did something very similar with 1920s yes my PhD which my first book is built on that if some of it’s that kind of material and then it’s a lot of middle ground literature and all the kind of novelizations that they hold so yeah this is twenties mainly twenties 30s so yeah reading everything and this may be the safer of the of doing research in the bill Douglas Center because this is ephemera yeah novelizations and fan magazines but the list it’s ephemeral weathers are clear somebody making a statement and it was an actual literary content but you can particular a nurse I mean you in school of English and film yes I wasn’t that at the time was it still back to discord English at the time that’s a good question I think it was English in film at the time then it has changed a few times it’s the kind of analysis where you forgot literary colleagues they may because it’s analyst yeah what you’re looking at isn’t prose poetry yeah plays conventionally defined but it’s not actually another medium it’s just a very odd sort of prose which is produced in the literature which is about another medium when I was doing my PhD I have an odd mixture of oh yeah of course that’s definitely falls under what we study and wouldn’t earth are you doing that particularly given the cultural statuses these kinds of print works yeah if anyone has any conceits about literary merit which you sometimes come across these days people going on it’s gotta have this much merit to be worthy of study then straight off what this it is off the bottom of that list is yeah oh yeah absolutely I think I thought massively appeals to me why I didn’t want to write about cinema going in literature with you know quotes around it in the way that we’re talking about you write a little bit about say wolf for example but I didn’t want to look at modernist writing from that period I mean that’s been addressed brilliantly and by other writers but I really wanted to look at the stuff the everyday life stuff and take that seriously and yeah you do I think I’ve come up against its resistance for that sometimes you’re in a position now where you can go to our students this is why you should never get to the headspace where you might regard this is unworthy of study yeah yeah one of the reasons I was so into using fan magazines to ask what the impact of cinema and modernism might have been was because nobody seemed to care about what the average person thought about cinema and asking about questions they were like oh what does the vision wolf think about so now which is hardly going to be a typical view it’s how they’re gonna represent how people thought about it it’s good to know that there’s it is to how much paper country yeah champion be definitely lowbrow forms of prose that are useful assist Oracle documents what we could do is just say just tell us what you’re going to tell us in the lecture that’s wrong twice I saw half in some way is the talk done giving later is particularly about tops and museum and it’s about the story of that night dress so it’s partly about trying to find out how it came to be there and then in the story of trying to find out how it came to be there it actually became a story about women’s volunteer work and curatorial work in these kinds of particular spaces local museums what I’ll be talking about a little bit is about a kind of network of women that I suppose goes from Lee herself to Suzanne to dorothy Holman to when we called and McMenamin who was a steward at torture museum who found the dress so there’s this kind of myth about finding the dress in a carrier bag in a drawer and then through to Rachel Nichols who currently runs torture museum but it’s run almost entirely by volunteers so a lot of the research that’s been done around it it’s been my people whose interest is primarily Topsham and then it’s Vivian Lee framed through that local interest so you get a really interesting take on what a star is or what a star means in this context where she’s not quite as important as local history family history and that particular way of thinking about it so it’s a really interesting different take on who Vivian Leigh is or was or what she means or why she matters and a lot what the museum does is that interplay between something that’s so mundane offset against something that’s so iconic and glamorous and from over there and from Hollywood history versus st. V’s bag and they draw the whole this dress from the set of Gone with the Wind so the story is that Anne found this in a cupboard somewhere and took it out I wasn’t sure what it was and then cross-referenced a few books on Gone with the Wind and thought that’s that might dress and then found out a bit more about its history and did it quite a lot research around it and then from there they decided to Center those collections and they had a Vivian Lee room where they had various items like that the Gone with the Wind dress which is the kind of centerpiece and they also have a dress I think for the premiere of which the third it’s wonderfully ornate it’s a real steam CO you can imagine it premiere just getting all the attention they have a travel dress a very ugly travel just from the 50s that they wore and then other things like I think as a cigarette case there’s a perfume bottle their house piece of fabric Accenture and a few bottle still for no but Becky who’s the research assistants where’s you can smell things on the fabrics still some of the fabric when you unfold it but the more you unfold it the less that’s better they have a fascinating range of the two so they ended up having this dedicated room but then over time that’s no longer there so it kind of comes and goes in in importance and there are different policies about what they should have shouldn’t Center it’s been fascinating going back through their own archives in the Attic of the strands so it’s this house along the s3 and it used to be a family house and their home and family and then I think drive the Alma to go over it and I think maybe 39 turned into a museum in the late sixties it’s just this beautiful house and you go in as a kitchen it has a sailboat in the loft and it’s all about fishermen and work on the estuary and it has rooms that are period rooms kept as they were and then it has some bits and pieces of Vivien Leigh just kind of scattered around it in a bedroom here in there which is interesting of Anna period where there’s more attention to her so her archive the VNA was open from 2013 and there have been lots of events celebrating some terries of but there is a lot of interest in her there are two movies coming out about her in the next couple years I think that my daughter is supposed to play her which if you ask me is great casting mm-hmm with cat-like faces I think she’s a great master I was gonna ask you if there was a connection with the Turing exhibition about her from a few years ago yes it Keith he’s the theatre performance curator at the V&A is the kind of mainly person he was responsible for bringing that archive working with it and then bring it out to the public so he’s done some amazing public engagement stuff with it they’ve been lectures at the V&A there’s been that touring exhibition I don’t if you saw it I saw it when I was here in the line art gallery in New Castle yeah there’s some beautiful stuff from Cleopatra there’s a lot of stuff we’re working on gone with the wind I think that told all over it was I start in York when I saw it a while ago he’s done a few other things with it I think there are some stereoscopic slides in that collection so she was a pretty keen photographer and I’m not sure if this actually happened but I know that he had plans just told that particular bit and make more of that so it’s just ongoing there’s stuff about her all the time Lucy Bolton at Queen Mary’s and some amazing half combination of scholarly and working with the fans there’s this fan organization could be Vivien Leigh Circle which actually started in somewhat of officially in the 70s but it was started by three women who were super fans of immunity and he’s the wait at the stage door for her so primarily theatre fans and met her and talked to her a few times and actually corresponding with her Violetta’s quite often so they have a wonderful collection of letters between these women and Vivien Leigh and then when she died they had a memorial event fair and they started a little urbanization called of eating circle and it kind of faded out in the 70s and then was picked up again in the 2010s in the wake of the V&A archive I think and they do really wonderful events actually to celebrate everything that it had connected to us so a couple of some of the go yeah some events in London where they had in the actus Church in the centre of London I can’t remember the name of the church but they had a memorial service and then readings from these fans and it was amazing then they had an event at Queen Mary where they had an exhibition of fan material so Lucy Bachman has some fantastic work on it there’s a lot of stuff going on around her so it’s an interesting moment I find it would interesting why people are still interest in her she’s not she’s quite different to Monroe say well would you have burn those DUHS it’s still kind of indoor I think I look there’s a lot been publicized about her mental health issues do you think maybe that’s part of the interest in her I think so I think that’s a big hook so I’ve been interviewing quite a lot of fans and people that range from my age people in their 30s to there’s people in in their teens up to the 80s and that does seem to be one of the big things that people ask people why she matters of why they care they tend to say things like she had a real grace about her which I find really interesting because I kind of think of her as chaotic and beers and Jessica but there’s a lot of emphasis upon kind of grace and glamour glamour makes a lot of sense particularly in the 50s and 60s that later period of her life and then a lot of people tend to say I made a connection because of the mental health thing and either for a personal reason were sympathetic reason and that does seem to be really a big hook and I think right now that’s a key reason why she’s interesting to people and I think her portrayal of Blanche DuBois is the pinnacle because I think even if you’ve never even seen gone with the wind or you can never been aware of anything else she’s done there’s just something about that version of streetcar named desire yeah and that pairing with Marlon Brando because it’s so violent and yet it’s so compelling and it’s very difficult to reconcile the relationship between those cuz they’re too explosive characters anyway yeah but in that film there’s just something about them there’s something animalistic and yet she embodies all of those contradictions you know she’s graceful and yet she’s all over the place she’s sexy but frigid you know she’s all of these things and he can’t help himself and then so you’ve got this rape apologist and maroon hen and there’s just so much meat to get into you’re right it’s still just so prescient I think because we’re still having discussions around those problems even though I wonder if that’s what it is as well yeah I think as well if you think about the way people understand Vivien Leigh quote-unquote and the characters that she played people like to conflate inevitably like to conflate the two so a role like that because of the breakdown and the end Blanche DuBois is kind of mental state people love to read lead into it through it lying about the part of the appeal of it it’s really interesting about with Brandon Lee against each other we’ve got method versus this very classical model and I think that’s what makes it work so brilliantly that you have these two different styles that are clashing against each other I’m not clashing but that works so brilliantly for Blanche and that works so brilliantly for Stanley and seeing them together is so fascinating it must be red fur because she was the movie cast is the American cast – Jessica Tandy as the only person who wasn’t on that original cats probably really helped in making her feel like a complete outsider yeah there are some great stuff in them her up over the VNA about that production that allows you a bit of access to working practice in preparation for that role so she’d be performing it on the stage with Olivier London in the late 40s and then in moving it to the screen they obviously have to make a number of changes not least to do with censorship but there’s a series of letters between Kazan and Lee in the early 50s talking about that adaptation and they discuss how we’re gonna get around censors are we gonna include flashbacks are we gonna do this I’m gonna do that some of them are type that as some of them are notes from telephone conversations and what’s really fascinating about them is they’re an interesting way to give agency back what to sort of think about agency and the history of that role where it’s not the case that you just have because I’m directing and this is how it is and she just translates the performance from the stage that’s coached by Olivier you know a lot of the talk about that role is there she was always coached by Olivier a lot of the discussion of that relationship keeps tripping agency from her but what you find in those letters is this very kind of extremely articulate about film adaptation about what wouldn’t work at a micro level with individual lines and then thinking about the structure of the play and how it will translate just very clear opinions about how that’s gonna work and very clear opinions about how she should look and how she should be costumed how that’s gonna work against her glamorous star image so she talks about wanting to look right and not good and she thinks very carefully if you have a wig it’s gonna work and how questions are gonna work so she’s giving an awful lot of attention to the construction of that performance and the play overall so those archive materials are interesting way to sort of write her back into that adaptation history where if you just look at the publicity her voice in those interviews or first-person articles that she writes sort of absent herself from that it’s all just about the parties that were happening in Hollywood at the time and the direction that you get and very little about her kind of active role so the archival story adds an interesting thread to our working practice while I’m the kind of final finished film piece so there’s a bit of a reclaiming of her authorship in a way I think so yeah definitely yeah and because I know other people the production deferring to her as well so you can also see in the archival record times where she’s dismissed when she’s talked over but you see the impact of her views her opinions her decisions that end up in the film and you can kind of trace some of those decision-making processes it doesn’t raise the question of why in the marketing for the film she self portrayed as having basically been a puppet our patriarchal pressures that strong was her agent parent persuaded her to play a kind of long game what’s the deciding factor fact why you decide to be publicly so yeah different it’s so self-deprecating I definitely don’t want to overplay that so in this isn’t some material in fan magazines that’s the way that was presented but you were also find in the press her pushing back very strongly against readings of the play that lunches a prostitute and morally devoid and how very passionately speaking about her interpretation of the rock so it’s not always like that but I think that this is I’m talking about that from time magazine material that the emphasis is slightly more upon a kind of glamour and the intimate insight into what it’s like to be in Hollywood than it is to work yeah so it pushes that aside more and I wonder you know how much did she actually write about how much is it edited or just yeah

there’s often in these these articles where it’s often a female interviewer sitting down with the female stars after this lengthy preamble about the journey and entering the inner sanctum of this star and describing them physically laughing this company yeah yeah but seemed to be covertly this everything I’m about to tell you is completely made up this like normal myth you know it’s the setting the scene for it was a dark and stormy not yeah and of course we’re also talking about fan magazines that for some reason had decided to almost exclusively target whoa no this may be something to do with the advertisers that were paying for advertising space in these magazines being advertisers that decided that all people who went to see films were women and therefore all buyers of these magazines therefore that means the the editors of the magazine are going what everything we write has to basically just be a way of easing the entire process about our advertisers yeah advertising to our readers and that will definitely influence what an interviewer asks oh yeah one’s raising their members yeah when they speak to a star if they even did yeah that’s the thing isn’t it if they even do yeah yeah how much really now about your first book it’s got a very cheeky title doesn’t it after pictures yeah is that an allusion to the title of something earlier because there’s that iris Barney book isn’t it yeah there is which is called let’s go yeah let’s go to the pictures so of it actually it’s from a line and Winifred Holtby one of your hope he’s not will stop writing where there’s a character in that who’s just at the end of her tether looking after all we useless men in her life and I think she she downs tools and her son says where you going – she says after the pictures but who is also an echo of the RX very bit which is kind of defensive the value of cinema going all the different ways in which it’s useful all meaningful and should be defended against dismissed as being lowbrow and dangerous and nasty so yeah it’s a combination of those two things with you what’s the subtitle I could never I think it’s woman’s writing on cinema going into war Britain was it it had a way more bland title and then the reader the final reader suggested changing it to something and then that line is an echo from something that this talked about is your impression of the nineteen twenties that this is a point by which in popular perception the whole institution has been thoroughly feminized as encoded female women do the institution itself is more of suitable as a home for women at least women performers if not oddly women behind the camera and it belongs in the larger field of leisure practices but you to be good to what women yeah that’s primarily the way that I approached it already in that text particularly because that’s a really useful tool for cultural commentators to condemn it and to dismiss it or speak negatively about it because if you associate it with being entirely feminine and feminized then you can attack it straightforwardly but then what you find in a lot of women’s writing is they’re kind of reclaiming that as a positive thing and seeing it is that dual awareness of something that is ridiculous or explosive or commercialized can also have value if it gives you a template to figure out questions about identity questions about everyday life and to pick and choose parts of that culture that help you make meaning basically so what do you find in a lot of the novels and literature that I’m looking at our people staging interactions or conversations or events in cinemas or talking about cinema growing characters and working through the place of the pizza palace or the flea pit in everyday life or somewhere that either is it kind of useful metaphor for working through something in the story or becomes quite an important public private space for different kinds of women to be a way to indulge in something that’s just about them to compare their lives against what they’re seeing on the screen to think through those questions of sort of British womanhood in modernity at that period usually against an American template because in law the content on screen or in the fan magazines is American more than is British so it was interesting for me looking about the vantage point of British women consuming this not entirely bowl of culture coming in from the outside and then sort of picking and discarding what they want to engage with is the big story here that there’s a lot of women writing about cinema who aren’t modernist yes at some time before these well-known statements by Virginia Woolf and Dorothea Richardson appear in the late 1920s yes this earlier stuff is conventionally disregarded definitely I mean there’s and there’s a lot of stuff alongside those writers in in of late 1920s and early 30s that’s doing not more interesting stuff but different stuff so someone like Winifred Holtby for example cinema is this constant element to fiction writing and to her journalistic writing where she’s always using it as a way to work through middle-class identity and regional experiences and what it is to be kind of northern and so this is that non London centric way of thinking about film culture that is not the Film Society or is not a kind of highbrow reflection on its artistic properties it’s more about like what does actually mean for people and how is it used so you find that in a lot of middlebrow literature there’s already kind of rich vein of thinking yeah we’re gonna read oh it’s here so it’s part of everyday life now so so really key part of how we talk to our readers about their lives and how we process that and then you know it’s present in all kinds of lowbrow one-off cheap reading matter that a place like the Bulldog assume our museum holds in abundance where those kind of cinema going stories are just everywhere a lot of those stories are about aspiring stars so in Cinderella stories there’s an awful lot of that but they’re always they’re not as straightforward as that they’re not always just you know little Jenny Smith wanted to be a star and she made it they always have a kind of edge of cynicism and kind of like grittiness that’s very appealing there’s always this sense of knowing better which I think it appeals to readers in it and the kind of smart way well it’s like it’s okay to indulge in this and we know that is sort of nonsense and sort of noir and I really like that voice that runs through these fictions so it’s quite different you know wolf thinking about yeah like it is an untapped medium that could be something greater it’s a different way of thinking about what is a sense of when it was that the general consensus arose that this was a female appropriate institution because it’s in place by the early 20s isn’t it yeah even further yeah and when you get them back to the prospect that it may have been white at the time that the refere cinemas were built that people were already seen this is a feminized it wasn’t that happened just a couple of years after their first generation of cinemas yeah so do you have a sense of a year when that first I don’t know I don’t think I can pinpoint it to a year but I think like you say it goes in hand with shipped in legitimizing Cinemark culture I think I think in the push towards it being a trying to attract middle-class audiences that’s the shift that pushes it towards being more feminized rather than kind of mixed gender working-class audience so I think and that’s the first world war thing isn’t it yeah yeah yeah yes yes it is so if you look at I mean you know this from having read all of the early families if you look at this stuff from I mean like nineteen eleven is maybe when the first British papers are and then the early early stuff from sort of eleven to fourteen sixteen isn’t especially tailored that way but then you get on to about I’m trying to think back to the millions of things that they were like in a rolodex I made a hundred I don’t know like sixteen seventeen on where to get it starts to take the shape that solidified from about nineteen eighteen that is that more feminized package where it seems more explicitly tailored towards women I think a big part of it is the inclusion of fiction in those papers and that their story magazines more in their earlier incarnation and the kind of stories seem to be addressing a female reader and they seem they often have every woman characters you can put yourself into those shoes yeah if you think about the fan magazine side it is slightly earlier than like 1920 or there’s maybe one real tippet of evidence that it started in German or formed just before the First World War and it’s that the pictures magazine set up a thing called the picture goes League and they even created little membership badges which had little fans on them I mean that in itself yeah was like one-year-old in this country while this way you know new stuff but there’s this one remark from mid 1913 when someone in the magazine says the picture goers League is not in any way connected with the women’s suffrage movement and it just came out of nowhere and I found no follow up to it or an explanation of why anyone would accuse them of that but the most obvious explanation is the picture goes league is almost entirely yeah and that might be just one of those first few signs that this the home institutions managed to orientate itself such that women are now perhaps not in the overwhelming majority but just in an evident majorities yeah that 60 percent of cinema goers and then it’s got something to do with leisure time as well and how much people were quit of course you know at the time if you live by selling your labor women work as much as men so perhaps but about having one at a time thing only applies when the whole institution goes middle-class yeah do you think that continue to uncover these kinds of things even and I’m asking very naively cuz I’m a more contemporary person yeah and the more we uncover by women in film and women in film culture more generally in earlier years there’s more evidence that women were always a big part of everything and just got pushed out more and more it’s the 20th century moved on and know we’re having to fight to get space back and some production from solar going everything again if that along the right lines or yeah yeah I think so I mean you know there’s a big push in feminist film historiography to do that work of writing back in there’s that amazing project women from the Pioneers project that’s trying to sort of create a database a new archive of all those like lost forgotten figures by not just focusing on actresses and put that back in I think it’s Jane Gaines that writes about that Jules forgetting in film history where you have they’re forgetting in historical record all of these women that contributed then you have a kind of forgetting in feminist criticism that I’m reading the text and theorizing the text at the expense of thinking about the historical presence of women behind the camera and then in your standard history textbooks you end up with your little box also women it’s there but I was not the story so there’s so much amazing work happening right now in early film globally to put women back into restore women to the historical record and to complicate that process as you were doing it right so it’s just as easy as going right now we have you know always blank headshots are not filled with these faces of women what next so I think it’s very fascinating trying to connect back to the contemporary moment yeah you know me too and all those shifts and changes that have or haven’t happened I guess what fascinates me about from history from my perspective these are those missing stories and pieces of when you shift focus to think about women’s contribution and that at the moment in some ways what I’m doing is more typical because it is a star but by thinking it through the archival side what I’m trying to do is not just think about star image and not just read some text but to connect Lea as a case study to all these other versions of women’s labor and then with the material on history cultures of cinema again it’s looking differently it like the other piece it’s not just women making movies it’s consuming film and film culture and telling those stories thinking about the relationship between two more modalities so yeah would you like to plug any social medias yeah but Vivien Leigh project has a twitter handle which is reframing VL that’s reframing VL so you can follow us on Twitter we are gonna have our own series of podcasts in the near future so we’re working on this right now there’s gonna be a symposium and an exhibition event on the 8th and the 9th of February next year and that’s at the University of Exeter so the CFP is closed but it will be open to registration soon it’s a free event so that’s on stardom in the archive more broadly and it’ll be on Saturday the 8th and then on Sunday the 9th we were having public exhibition where all of the outputs from this Viviani project will be on display we have some talks from curators were some 3d models that you can play around with yeah you can check us out on Twitter and that I’ll lead you through two pretty great submissions I think we got Michael Williams with a Hampton we’ve got Angie spice is gonna come what Glen’s be Charlotte cross doing pellon Cary Grant in the Bristol connection yeah James Chapman – I never imagined the panel Manley Williams is gonna come talk about Dinah doors pouches and listen to about graveyards star great guys isn’t archived yeah there’s some pretty interesting stuff oh nice it’s gonna be do it I think I’m also reminded you know he said that getting into fashion history yeah yeah if he ever I’m not so meeting is the right word but have you ever just been in this in the same room as parachurch Gibson no she’s one of these people who just she’s actually as a person she’s about that but she was so many clothes she looks like this blast button right right and she works at the London College of Fashion and she’s a film historian man and she did that to film studies yes yeah and so she’s specializes in fashion in film I just thought yeah I’ve never met her because it wasn’t about the something was really important when we do any teaching your students is to go I wanna give you an example of stuff you have to go and find it yeah yeah yeah when you do any research I have recently under find out what that name of that caller is where the caller lies flat against your top its kind of Puritan Erica is quite big and wide and it’s do nothing up here it’s a nice flat but what the girl it’s called a drop collar oh wow and you know when you’re a kid you have those horses where you become the horse you get inside your shoulders like nurses I had to look find out what that it’s called for a thing recent thing about series any film it’s called a step in the horse he’s a great uncle we’ve all been going yeah now I need to go and find out about how this materials manufactured I remember it was Chris Brooks’s memorial after he died in there I think was the early noughties it was done in an Cathedral but it wasn’t a religious service and a bishop it’s a bishop it was a friend of Chris’s and he said look I just wanted to point out that Chris he showed me something amazing which is they once said to me if you want to explain the stained-glass window you have to understand maybe your mathematics if you want to understand medieval mathematics you have to understand medieval cosmology and if you understand medieval music so the general rule is if you want to understand anything you have to know everything and the best wicked most of us can do is we can find out a few scraps it’s the other thing else to make it just about doable to provide an explanation of something so I think you’re going with that impulse of a few scraps yeah yeah and then I think when you’re a student as well even when you’re when you’re a PG RPG T trying to have a healthy level of fear about what you don’t know and then but use that as a motivator to keep digging is that getting that balance right it’s quite difficult isn’t it either just go I cannot possibly engage with all this stuff all you think oh it’s so exciting I get to learn about all this stuff but then you have to cut yourself off at the right point so I think you get better at knowing I’ve seen the gaps and then being excited about the gaps rather than terrified about the gaps and it’s almost gonna tell you that you have a gap unexpected to us and a gap yeah I still find out now you know you almost pushing and pulling between finding that exciting and planning right now we need to be engendering in our students I think yeah thank you so much soon you’ve been listening to audio-visual cultures with me Paula Blair and Rochelle and Lisa Stead’s this episode was recorded and edited by Paula Blair and the music is common grind by air tone licensed under creative commons attribution 3.0 and available for download from ccmixter org if you liked the show and find its content useful and interesting please help cover production and distribution costs by donating to paypal taught me /pe a Blair & libera PACOM /pe a Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday please read share and subscribe on your chosen listening platform as this helps others find the show for more information visit audio-visual culture at wordpress.com and follow av cultures on Twitter and Facebook thanks so much for listening and catch you next time

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 45 – Origins of the Film Star System with Dr Andrew Shail automated transcript


please support our Patreon to help us provide accurate transcripts
they say is audio visual cultures the podcast that examines aspects of arts and cultural production I'm Paula Dyer and I'm joined this time by film historian Andriy shield talking about his research on the emergence of the star system and early sentiment centering on French performer Mike slender most of this discussion was recorded in early twenty eighteen and there's a lot of redox at the end expanding dates and changes and why we held it back for so long thanks to you supporters of PTM dot com forward slash AP cultures and everyone engaging on social media that be more information on how to support the podcast and get in touch at the end for now I enjoy the discussion %HESITATION right we just bought hi Anthony okay so we have just walks it's call it documents even that's what is presented as cold long ownership of this one which means the man in the silk hat which was a film that Melinda made about half from Max and in ninety three and one that I've only recently got hold of because it was unavailable for awhile there was versions on YouTube that are quite low resolution comes into effect finally got hold of it and this is a documentary made by a daughter about a father who she never knew because he don't mind in fact he killed himself when she was six months old as we learned in one of the little extras for this documentary on this particular TV dish which is fine I believe it is human pilots we learned that this unit found out that her father had been a famous film star when she was ten years old from ninety who was a stadium and like many people at the time remember it's massive film stars of the nineteen tens and twenties I watched it knowing that more than this awareness of the offensive for half of his life was a mixture of patchy and actually incorrect because I'd read her book Max land that I think will pass muster and was my father and based on the published documents from during my son's life things like newspaper articles posters for his films I was able to tell that she had made some errors in that book and some of these errors cropped up again in the mind so can't we just watched we went into it knowing that this is the case this is something which of course affects me a little bit but in your case you're aware of that when people tell stories it's about twenty five percent fiction this person of interest that just making it up as a creative act even when what you're doing is presented the sensitive documentary and I suppose the way that this one was done it warrants we're making some of this up on its sleeve because in places it would use its a films from a lot later in Max's career as if they were documentary footage of something that happened early in his career in his real life the only ones quite revealing it's from the film that he made in nineteen fourteen I think where he made it back in border where he got up and made it using his own parents and sister and it was quite funny slapstick comedy but they use that to illustrate his youth and his teenage years it's quite clear that it's not actually a documentary footage so I think that's the model for what's going on in quite a lot this is this isn't necessarily accurate documentary follows seven points it did slap historical documents on screen so at one point for example to the point where she just very abruptly goes and then he killed himself there's lots of newspaper clippings I learned a few things about his time in America interestingly ready and she says I don't know why he killed himself he and his wife at the time did it together I don't know why he killed himself and I've never tried to find out so this is actually an admission at the end of okay so I know that these facts I've learned a lot about my father most of his films in the champion is found but actually the some things I don't want to know about so I think what we've watched is one part documentaries one part love power into summer comedies and another part playful invented history it's a story about more than to really wasn't in the store if I want my story about somebody who's found out some things about her own life all credit to her when she made this she made the decision to do several different versions speaking several different languages she spoke at least at the time very good English and so did the voiceover herself to be the English version that we just seen the DVD contains French version on television as well so presumably to the Italian one two this is somebody who even from the sixties became a bit of a minus seventeen fronts as somebody who was both my son and his daughter and he was championing the preservation and appreciation of his films market calling Max Linder but of course it's more probably pronounce Max I'm there the reason that we watch this is because I'm right at the ends now the huge research process of producing a book on why it is we have film stars and tools and muscle like an old question because sometimes because films have performers in them and some of them are more popular with the public at the numbers and some of them have their identities quite prominently used in public but that's not an inevitable aspects of all cultural industries some of our options Jeez get on quite well with either anonymity being the norm my go to example for this is you know when you've got a lot of confidence got a joke on the stick this is the person who writes those jerks ordinarily get that name credited on any packaging not because of their IT industries where the norm is anonymity for their industries well known as something gets credited but it's not the ident city of any of the creative personalities and specific category of creative us now my go to example for that is Disney films because Disney films almost universally the posters for don't advertise the identities of the voice artists and took many by %HESITATION if it's something that they're interested in sees the voice artists who've done these films even when his voice assist are quite famous because their identities these people that's not the model for the identity we ought to be associated with the product the model the Disney uses at least is that it's the identity off company that we ought to be associated with the products of the one name that persistently appears and it was of course the reasoning behind the post on Disney posters is that a full business the server is not inevitable but it did happen and a home for very specific reasons at a specific time in a specific place and what I found after well over a decade of back breaking shoveling and archives around the world is that the star system first emerged in France and it first emerged with Max Landis and the fact that a motion fronts had courted done wrecked insurance on its emergence in the United States in fact if both provided the model for some of the production companies in the US to follow in trying to break the stranglehold that a set of folder American phone companies at the time had of %HESITATION from production and distribution and it also represented an extra weapon in the armoury of my Sundays employer practice crash course often compactly which the American companies had full knowledge of the arrival of this new way of publicising films raising the identity of people performing in Americans had full knowledge of profit was about to start using this in the US so they had a motive to try and match it with our own home grown equivalents so it is quite complicated story to do with the attitude of American production companies to companies from Europe importing films into the US which is a mixture of actually relying on them to be able to make up full film programs but also trying to limit how large a percentage of if the phone market in the US any known U. S. production company constituted and so out of this set of international complex came the star system in the U. S. but the very simple reason why it first emerged in France and the date was something in the region of the fourth to the ninth of September nineteen oh nine the reason my first mission farms was very simply that the perfect company they realize that members of the general public for treating Max and %HESITATION they were treating him as a production value in that they were treating him as an element their guns the making of the film the represented one of its virtues in their treating him as such even though they didn't know his name so they were capable of recognizing him from from to from in part because he's got quite distinctive just got really big on I called large forehead it tends to where is has slipped back so there's very little hand and it is so it's just a really big forehead big why are as thick black mustache and quantum mischievous grins and the fact that it was actually quite good comedy performers well all these things are making it so that audiences were capable of recognizing him from from deferment seemingly actually seeking out homes that had him in them even though his name wasn't being used and published and the reason my path from the sound was because for about eight month period before September nineteen oh nine months in one eight nine or ten month period landers stopped working for them %HESITATION working for them for a few years at that point and of course casual basis we start working for them to trying after broke out making his name on the stage and he didn't and so we came back to the room and start working for them again and within the first few weeks of land there working for them it became apparent that audiences will recognize in him in spite of the fact that he hadn't been appearing in films for them for something like eight or nine months said the blatant evidence that the company obtained about point was disco so recognizable that he was being recognized for films that people have seen a year are I set up a new one Hey we've been observing the basic principle over the course of the last few years that we've been employing anyone on even a semi permanent basis but we don't publicize their names because we run the risk of turning individuals into production values of investing and publicity about them that by turning them into production values and the things that have economic value in excess of the value of that labor and if we do this anyone whose name we've built up with the public can at the next time the contract expires in contrast to this point where short term next on the contract expires they can just leave and go somewhere else and so there was this fear of harming one's competitors there's this general principle of anonymity what I have with my face with my excellent that they realized Hey even though we have this existing policy of anonymity Max has become production value for the audiences anyway %HESITATION that particular point they just son Max and three year I think some people they want if we build them up as a production value innocent and this year he then leaves yeah he'll take that value to somebody else but during that year the exploitation that we can achieve all of his identity if we do publicizes nine may very well far outweigh any losses we might make in the long time on this so let's just do it let's go in with all guns blazing as of the start of the publicity campaign where they produce posters that named him and they produce display cards for cinema foyers or lobby display because that name ten they issued his name to the trade press relations thank to the popular prices were they went all into erecting a public profile for him said that his name would be known amongst the general public so they've been able to associate it with his face and his mannerisms as well can't quite distinctive set of company mannerisms and so that they could capitalize on what was clearly a talented performer who is going to be with them for nearly a year that point once a company has decided to do that you then get a situation of other companies in the industry having together do we follow strict because now we have faith and I think was the senior phone company in the entire world at this point they were out producing it in the most prolific at the American companies competitors have to go okay I think decides to do this do we maintain our relatively risk averse prince Philip of anonymity what do we take the risk of a path it's just taken a possibly a reference %HESITATION cells that are just as profitable for us that's nice lenders and interestingly it did take a few years for almost the entire European film production industry had converted to using at least one name to perform a company by the end of nineteen that everyone had begun to do it in Europe and North America by nineteen fifty so it did take some time but basically between the point when they started this campaign for Max and %HESITATION in September nineteen oh nine and I think it's April nineteen thirty one the last company finally says okay we're going to do this the European and north American film industries the choir star system is quite a radical thing to do to go from an industry which doesn't use the name of the people who are the most prominent aspect of the product because of the people who are visible in every product not talking about the names of the produces a screamer I got from a situation where that's not down to a situation where publicly discredited but extreme publicity for films and films is now the industry habit and given how very specific circumstances that led to the Mecklenburg published a campaign where that's not something which was inevitable interested would do at that time perhaps it was highly likely that the industry would do it after a certain point Wednesday became stable enough for new people regularly performing for films when camera distances were close enough to make their faces recognizable from one phone to another when contracts are relatively long ten we have all these precipitating factors but it wasn't necessarily inevitable that when the %HESITATION came around in short order star system but it seems that a sense of %HESITATION likely circumstances needs to happen in addition to about to precipitate the first of these campaigns the with Max on there and so it's conceivable that a tiny adjustment in events one example could be the guy who Mike slander was understudy for the play that he was that it was at the Catholic diferente powers and place because of what the king because he was understudying in this play in nineteen oh nine his name is Max deity if Mike's daily has actually been less healthy during that time my son that he was in studying and would probably have had more opportunities to play the principal role in the fight that daily tied and therefore may well have made his name as a theatre performance and may well not have ever gone back to perfect meaning that probably would never found evidence that he was recognizable with audiences and therefore would never have had the prompts to launch a star system if that happened just a slight improvement in the health of one person perhaps the star system would have emerged in say Denmark in nineteen left for the star system of of most of the US ninety twelve so it's not a matter of inevitability that's the main thing that I've been asked is that this may be enabling the story that but for one of the things that's been stressed in the past few years about the first World War which we kind of the centenary commemorations of is that the start of the war was the result of any really really unlikely sensors FS so it wasn't simply that there were these two groups of opposed world powers that was very good at not going to war and then have the usual operative methods for not coming to war removed from them by the unusual circumstances of the summer of nineteen fourteen it wasn't just that it was things like when governor prince it kills fronts further he actually tried to do it earlier that day by throwing a bomb into his car and he failed and he was drowning his sorrows in a nearby cafe having escaped from the scene the whole thing and then completely by surprise the car carrying Ferdinand in his one on its way back from the event that France would not have been attending that day the card carrying members drove down the street that the cafe that uses you know was on and even that wasn't enough to mean that prince it would kill transfers and what seems to have made it so that he basically had the opportunity how did you wanna place was that the driver of the car wasn't a very good drive and managed to store car immediately outside the cafe and so all you would need to do to resume that sort of the first World War didn't start when it started it would be just to go back in time and help somebody with learning to drive so it's the same thing just tiny little unlikely event that could have been avoided by only accidents if they're going he wasn't very good at driving that morning had slipped while walking down the stairs and injured himself perhaps another driver would've been found who is a better driver I wanted to point this out that something similar is going on with the motives of the star system it's not inevitable it may be likely to happen at some point but it's not likely to happen after a certain point in fact the reason why things happen at some point so because of coincidences very unlikely in very small effects so what's the book in a nutshell well I wanted to point out is that I spent half the book to do this when we get some stuff was the first film styles that we care of people who %HESITATION at the time in a consistent decline or at least have been in the past that career leading up to when they start companies thought they've been consistently plan series count these are characters where it's the same character appearing from film to film but each film is a discrete narrative assisting from cereals whereas a single narrative broken up into several from and so when my son that's when his policy campaign first started he had been cobbling together a character that was informally known as Max at the time this county with Ben and Max in into totals and some of the phones it is by the name Max and the titles of the films that started a little later after he was coming that together and then his counterparts in the US Florence Lawrence whose five very small margin the first U. S. film stuff hello I have to admit that like many US some stuff here is actually born in Canada she had been playing service canticle Mrs Jones in that period shortly before her first stop investing campaign started and so it seems to be the case that not only did lots of very unlikely things have to happen to get star system but you also need to have something in place already which is a bit like a star system but which uses fictional characters rather than real people we have the recurring appearance of a fictional character from phone to phone back recognize ability of a fictional person perhaps to costume through mannerisms to the type of nurses they get involved in that seems to need to also be in place and so the shift of the time's up shift between one system and service cuts as we but critics in nineteen oh nine the industry in both Europe and North America and adopted the practice of making service kinds of films in the late nineteen oh eight and then you know it's not mine so by mid to late nights and Monday what for over the place so it seems that what needs to happen was a system that was a bit like a star system but which didn't use real people but she's fictional people instead plant needs come place and then there's the slightest of shift into having something similar to it but which used real people it might seem like a huge momentous change I want to document why it is between blocks away from my two thirty in the industry did basically re orient itself was to relaunch its marketing practices may seem like a huge moment to change but looking at it stage by stage it's a sense of very minor transitions I'm not I suppose is the take home message of the anti but significant changes do occur %HESITATION industries benefiting but the amounts as a result of at the time will probably look like in significant transition which is one no one leaves any record of this pair going Hey his diary entry I just decided to launch the first started building publicity campaign for someone and one of the largest in particular is that with the first decisions losses starting building publicity campaign in the US the guy who decided to do it was caught live life because he may have directly copied what path they were doing was Max line there when he launched this campaign Florence Lawrence he seems to have actually had a motive not to mention that to anyone because if you ever produced on account of it he wanted to look back and go Hey look I invented this in our system the night following going after a trip to Europe in the summer of nineteen oh nine well I noticed a few things about publicity for stars in front with about this CarMax I basically copied the system when I go back to the US in the finals October November nineteen oh nine so it's in a rampage through a lot of evidence based cities where the evidence in some places is missing because this is from I haven't had a hundred years ago and lots of stuff just doesn't get tapped when stuff does get capped it gets damaged by floods and so there's a tradition on archives this loss of gaps and holdings of newspapers and magazines say for example but there's also partial puzzles have because people kept secrets they didn't write stuff down they deliberately misinform forty four we have to do is put something like seven or eight partial puzzles one on top of the other and it's only when you do that that you can see this seems to be the most likely transvestite must admit the whole thing is a story of no this definitely happened but this is the most likely sentiments given what we can show to feature I'm very big on what we can search feature as well because that saves the district the column line mates from the US to Europe in the summer months and nine on the trip that he made twenty returned in November nine seven nine I think it's actually like to attend but my stomach this trip is mentioned in trade papers but actually also that's not good enough I went and I found the passenger manifest for the ship but he settled on returning from South I'm ten I think too many oaks possible take a really difficult to find because the Ellis Island projective digitize these manifests for well over a century and so I can show the exact item which your wife back in the US a lot of cool stuff because of what exactly it is it's written down somewhere you have to buy the book it will be published all being well five inside if this year or next year we know what academic publishers can be fine okay she okay %HESITATION so we first worked with accurate publishes who surprised us with hi speed but none the less it's going to have someone like ninety images and because book about %HESITATION cinema books about SMI which don't have any images and we must I think I actually look at the offer must not suspect them we must suppose the publishers went no no you can't have a book that would be silly hi there her and this expensive unless was some publishers there is they get all you wanna do you want to write this book about history or any sort of visual culture history right okay so yeah love to put some images in your books so we'll give you three for free if you would have more than three you have to pay us a hundred pounds per image and bug but they've been working on a new color yeah and so they they you know net result people write these books about visual culture which has no images are the number one next images and then I have to pay the publisher a bit of money for these images and but I think it's going to make a difference because these images that not just Hey here's a drawing of Max Linda from the post of these images are this poster exists in this archive I I was I was this film which came out on this day because I can check from this trade paper as you can see from the poster it mentions Max Landis night for example H. and M. as a punch that evidence I've never the boss to set something I've written as required reading for anything because I've known people who do that and who there was every single model that they teach them if need to read this thing I've written as an example of a piece of work which is hungry for evidence and which goes looking for it and places where you might not expect to find it I think this might actually be useful for that sort of tension in the future I'm going to blow my trumpet that much it might be inspiring as an example of how much evidence it is important to get to make a historic okay that's good to be tenacious about finding that evidence and distillation making fake assumptions about things making educated guesses that you can't substantiate ninety way in some cases my evidence is in French I see a couple places notices in German and my translations of it %HESITATION the translations of a non native speaker it's a place I got the help of some colleagues of mine who speak French than me in some places %HESITATION Accenture TCS to something nicer speaker of Germans I've got help on these corruption cases my translation is it going to look not going to look cavalier I'm just going to look remarkably fun creative that's one of things about translating is that if you translate this affection for example and you translate a sentence literally a concern rated funky and so there's often a lot of license in translations you completely rephrase things in order to get the sense over yeah but my frustrations are clunky completely this role translation but I think the evidence is that it's in French it would be silly of me not to use it because it's not in my native language the city of me to tell a story about whether star system comes from and not taking out the fact that it started in fronts in fact when I first started to make this discovery yes put together for a few scraps of evidence I did think right so I don't need to spend a lot more time researching this French story and I need to spend a huge amount of time taking a bunch of stuff I've already written and just taking it completely misses after rebuilt this often but from the ground up with an animal or social it's gonna take a lot of time with her but then I thought yeah because I'm doing this is gonna be going to France is going to mean me doing my absolute worst trying to communicate with the people who run the first socon Stein is used in France and lots of sorry can we do this in English this because most of the rest but with significant injuries from those of me apologizing for speaking radio for French but none the less it was rewarding a big lesson of this is that if you want to do the history of an industry in a very brief period in history of an industry they tend to be international industries and so looking at these interactions between companies in different nations is almost inevitably going to be a part for give it a crack and you will get interesting results even if it means lots of depending upon the kindness of people who speak languages better than you do I can't speak highly enough of the Cinematheque francaise people their most embarrassing me generous with time they'll give me when I went to go and study some French trade papers filed by stills as well and then the people at the front desk young children to do pottery you have to pass out because they were really great as well they didn't seem to want to help me do research in one of our come in a position of taking an account which already exists for the star system of most in the US at least find a doctor which is a code of it who published this nineteen ninety dollars in nineteen ninety six I think he was only forty I'm more than confident that had he lived any further he would have produced second third editions of this perk which increases evidence base how does this story maybe even amend some parts I'm coming to this and the sense of going a lot of people regard rich decorative as work as being the last word on this potentially Woodbridge decorative himself now say this wouldn't he be quite encouraged about somebody coming along and saying let's at least widen our scope a little bit to see if what happened in the US might have actually been part of a larger story whether because on TV kind of sweat and I even found a small network in restorative this book where he says the one with the star system contains both elements of discourse in other words if you can only practice he's going to focus on his back almost exclusively on this because I'm not on economic practice and so what I can do my work is to focus on a contract so that what I do is provide something which should hopefully act as a complement to this book although I must also admit to having revisited every single one of the sources that you used and having found a couple of errors in this book as well I was which are completely understandable given that he was working in the predisposition of everything well that's the thing itself here research has been facilitated by advancing technologies and easier access to all of the data yeah I mean the media history digital library is amazing it doesn't have digitized copies of all of the trade and popular publications that I need to use from this period but the fact that it's got the stars copies of moving picture wealth and Nickelodeon and variety and from France it's got some distance companies of summation of those have been starts hello how to pop around the world because I love to do this I've been up to access things that would pre digital era have necessitated a lot more popping back and forth across the Atlantic if you know anything if you research and go phone and found a new lead and in those two countries separately I now need to go back to the archive I spent the weekend when I was in another country and have no time I need to go back there just to check on VH1 article on a page that didn't look up when I was there of course if it wasn't digitize the also that would just be I just can't do that there's just no money the system time it would be ridiculous to cross the Atlantic for example to go and read one article that said that trade is held on a one off because there's been lots of lots of time in order to get back to moving pictures well known look up something happened in that month so the fact that a lot of the digitized has been absolutely essential and it's not that I've been able to put together an evidence base for this which is something like four times the size of the one of which is the code of that and it tends to be the case that when you put together a bigger picture what you thought was the whole story when you have the smaller picture actually turns out to be just an episode in the larger story which connects to be quite different from three the original version of the story what did start out as intends to trying to advance to the quarter of this picture has become a testing of it analysts turns up in some regards affect to amend the policy as well it's not an enviable position because he wants to be pointing out amendments to %HESITATION an account when the person who originally part of the account come come back and go I think you might be mistaken although any time I've put stuff in print which is challenged somebody else's work what's happened is they got in touch and we felt very productive conversations I've never actually had a fantastic I would imagine if it's a decorative was still alive he would actually go that's correct %HESITATION he could very well find himself I think even I can ice over this a lot of the past few years and we've talked about it quite a bit probably the sensitivity of him having died so young as well perhaps this out why he's being even more revered than he might've thing provisioning process hello also Thursday %HESITATION I met contemporary person I'm a contemporary person partly because of those financial constraints that you're mentioning I've never caught the mobility going to run the world sick at Davos when I entered a peach Tate was very home based everything was on my door staff based in Belfast and the furthest I went was probably London during my pet staying connected quite a bit of research sire and even that was beyond my means even with funding disappointed America for anything has something I've never done and may never date for local currently almost every research report done for this has been a minimum two birds one stone thing thank us for ten years ago now I had a high rent some sensitive research fellowships are like that I use that money to govern work at university of Texas in Iran's incentive for low fat and I was able to do a little research on it then well I was also doing some and she was researching the trip to Paris I looked at three different archives I was in Paris hi to better research allowance from my job to pay for that as well but of course it meant staying in the absolute cheapest price I could find because he's got a reserve sounds big enough to take it a power source for domestic crime the research into three days I think another thing about rich Dekada roof into the book is that I found and eventually published in a local newspaper which stated that he died of cancer so what I decided to do was to ask the publishers if they can give me a slightly higher royalty right say greeting on the conditions the condition I proposed that none of the royalties actually go to me on the condition of the royalties okay to cancer research UK and also ask them if they could put on the back cover of the book because I'd like people to know this so I'm not gonna get any royalties whatsoever from this book that's not to say that if I was to get royalties I would be getting huge amounts of money now huh K. academic a tiny percentages are given cancer research UK's going to be getting a small amount of money in my name events for they make it a point to point fifty and about ten years one of my readers report said that the book will make a splash in the landmark work of stuff studies that would be enough of a hundred dollars but I actually have a plan from now on to do this with all of my publications because income from publications doesn't really matter like up three books with how great for example because of a folkish AFI from prices stuff of Kobe my phone plastic with paragraph I've got an interesting collection called menstruation cultural history and that growth and as the collection good neurology emergency hunger sent me a thing every year and it's twenty five pounds perhaps for the reading books one is nice it's not like I rely on it for the prospect of getting more income for more books isn't that kind of thing hanker after cancer research UK appreciate mine complex other one because they'll be next month but you have to benefit from that moment I also figured that if you have managed to bring something that gets traction of popular audience and that thing involves criticisms of everything one of the things that anyone who tries to engage you in this class will do is I'll say that you wrote the book in order to make money out of criticizing the thing and if I can say no because I don't get any money from this book the money goes to charity then that will accomplish the VQ stuff I find it %HESITATION Shams that it's nine five days that you're worried about that kind of reaction not only naturally anybody would pay when it should be a celebration because you're putting so much new knowledge right there for any of us writing a pay cut to send she will retain and of course there are people who use their platforms to be maintained by other people but I think your concern about that isn't ready to injustice what you've actually done you find stuff for four decades over produced and expands on not you corrections what's needed to be corrected we haven't done this maliciously and having read to accept so that when you were writing it at certain age I come across that way we talked extensively about the tone when you have to deal directly with his work I would have agreed up until about two weeks ago when I read one of the region's reports on it and the reader said that my combative tone especially with decorative of need to be at work I did think how was it was kind of a US border fat gently framing what I was doing and all of the saying I don't disagree with ninety percent of what the divisions I still must come across as combative as partly because you're writing is very matter of fact and almost clinical there's nothing wrong with that but I think people with maybe receive that Coldplay but maybe that's a projection on your work rather than what's coming from UAE we don't know he says maybe this is someone who holds him in very high regard so is moving at defensive there could be a range of things going on there could be an emotional response KP this person has decided thefts Southlands familiarizing end three ships that get those passages again and see if we can soften the need for more the editor the presses specifically said this is one phrase I think you should replace it I was talking about a couple of days worth of small items but this is part of the S. yes well is this going to be a based in the back it's long yes but a hundred and forty five thousand words long which is present when you're hovering listing ID on your laptop hi so the intensity of what went in to putting those words together when you're dating without large documents there's going to be times when you're stressed %HESITATION thanks if we aren't coming I. E. as calmly as you would like them to say and the technical thing to manage writing epic is a really very difficult process there's times when I go back to mine check tax something check a reference work freshen up on something or whatever it is and I read a passage I think the driver I thought that's not me I would never write like that today so you're constantly learning as a writer it never really gets easier I don't think this is something I say to students but even if you go to one of the most senior people in the school is rising painful yes the say yes it is a reference to his painful Douglas Adams is my touchstone honest that was his life and it was the most painful thing in his life was to write on it Mrs batten broader this stuff over so he did so much of the process this year opinion stating yourself to sit down and it and it's very difficult thing today and then the other thing is something I think especially if your caring about what you're doing and he wanted to be the Bassick Mayfair perfectionist it's agonizing everything is organizing I was advising students to just be less precious about first off if it's not working they're trying on writes it and then realized it just set it aside and start a new file starting from scratch whenever I said I was thinking I might give them the best advice because my knee jerk reaction when I hear myself saying how could you possibly have to do that to your own writing I just because I am being precious about my life and I'm thinking can't think I've been writing recently because I have to just do that can I just say to the side of the file it would be so grateful when students come to AA and baths because their laptop has broken and they didn't back up their files and they've lost everything and you're saying you still go to your notes this is all fresh because you've just written that certification and the three day before the deadline although I know you're going to say fate and physically because I could no they were far from home to me %HESITATION publication I was working on I've got this book backed up on two separate yeah I discovered Dropbox most of my patients save my life I think there are eight drops of things in my first year that I lost because of a faulty %HESITATION arc flash I've had became corrupt is when it's your whole life is on hello thanks it's awful it's really heartbreaking the idea of writing again from scratch terrifies me because I'm a better editor than I am I'm a writer I'd rather have a lump of crap to mobiles and something beautiful and I think one of the phones and students as it could be said of a sconce when I say this really is the word a sconce in any situation other than how someone looks it would use its only thirty students always like to make a sconce when I say if you're having problems getting the ideas out go for a walk go talk to suffer but because getting the blood pumping by going for a walk or trying to articulate it verbally involved in writing these rules easier ways of doing things done writing I want to envision that kind of situation is somebody who's done all of the research they need to do is awfully confident about case they need to make it is even if they complain about the overall structure in which they can do to make that case it's going to be like a five step structure when I'm in that place when I've done the research not exactly what I can begin making in what the stages I adore just writing from scratch and it's painful but it's still really enjoyable situation there's been times when I started writing before I'm ready I think that's the worst thing is you can then get stuck with editing documentary %HESITATION that you've produced when you weren't ready I think that's a very good points and academia so pressured nine and with ration U. K. their research accident Sam mark there's more pressure than ever to be purchasing purchasing purchasing a house we have to talk all quality everybody's over works and exhausted its early career people are in constant anxiety because of this and that was certainly my experience I'm a year ahead of election post no I I still have this overbearing fading and I know I've got loads of ideas suggesting adding I've got ideas for at least four Berwick said I want to right now I know exactly what I want to do with them that it's going to take time to do the research and times change writing and I feel the anxiety of those hanging over me because I just feel like I should have happened %HESITATION five minutes ago I can't shake out failing I don't know if I after awhile I feel like even emerging these recordings and are you still on the production J. saying right perfect and institutional terms and hopefully they'll be a few sirven trashed two other people and other scholars people here just general and Chastain these topics but I feel like this isn't what I'm supposed to I'm supposed to be right in effect right now I am Miami no chance of a laptop concerning this two things going on at one of which is years of institutions telling you produce for your worthless but the other one is you do love frighten even less painful love not just the use of language the products of a research person product of sitting down asking questions formulating models testing those models against evidence compiling massive accidents fitting that into a bigger picture seeing the bigger picture means to change doing almost half and then expressing your findings in writing is great so in addition to being intentional pressures from the outside is also something which we do get completely understandably addicted doing like why is it the feeling itchy that you're not smoking if you're someone who's tried to quit smoking because you're actually addicted to nicotine we can say oh it's nothing like addictions and mental harmful substance because writing is harmless but it does tend to six three hundred sixteen it's harmless in one sense and not it's very therapeutic but it's also if you're writing to meet deadlines and if you're having to hit those high standards for whatever reason if you have targets you need to reach it's very stressful and there's a lot at stake and if you know that something is going to be AT and t's the peer review process convey her affect as well show me a scholar he hasn't had their work completely torn to shreds and someday be incredibly rare to find it yeah because there are people out there who are playing nasty and %HESITATION maybe give constructive criticism they'll just tell you you're stupid and right six pages of notes as somebody who works on film in a school of English in the states to language in English I working amongst a bunch of scholars who working on some exciting different from what I work on and external examiners who are asked to look at the work that students take my models are being honest look at work on a topic that they have and what some greedy used to being in a film about people making judgments yeah the stuff that comes my way even though they're not expensive exposed to different steam extend examiners and pair of ears is apparent here should be able to go on nothing experts on this I'm not the person you want to read this but some people don't seem to think that you want to work in that rigorous way to spend some script from send it my way there's times when I think wouldn't it be nice if just once the peer review process for something I produced was briefly locks and slapdash and it just got way through I think that and then I go now I wouldn't because that would be undisciplined living up to its popular misconception every bit of Fairview I've had stuff that was unsolicited based if it's stuff you know it's part of a special issue of pop in as the collection when I was approached to write the thing the peer reviewed tends to be less exacting everything on time which is unsolicited I have had really merciless reviews reports I mean most of us in the sense of even when they were being really complimentary but being measured rigorous no one's just waiting in the thing for you after the critical ones that had been difficult to read one of them carrying students read the critical feedback I can understand why it's very difficult and that's especially when I try to do something for somebody I know and care about each it's even more difficult than Jennifer a stranger just trying to concentrate and make sure you're not come across this main when you want them to do their best work you know you want me to do better by the same token when we do peer review we are harsh in part because we realize what it was people harsh to us we can't keep this if we just let stuff through that's awful that's going to devalue the quality of this time of year when you are very rigorous sometimes being rigorous or something which is amazing and the rigorous there's just identifying how great it is and why it is you're saying yes unreservedly publish this I think there's a time once when I was there before it became one of the editors at every public official culture is just one of its readers as time went from my readers report it was something like eight hundred was long and then I have to just give a decision and the decision was except minor revisions major versions etcetera and instead of any of these the decision I was published this little beauty with dispatch it was wonderful it was just amazing piece of scholarship about because individual culture during the horse surgeon peddling the norm is the people still traveling on horse drawn buses and carriages when cost arrive the visual culture of because during this period when Congress the slower than most room carriages great article wonderful in every respect the only recommendations I had with a little bit of extra evidence that fine you off that the person didn't seem to know for the past not abundant evidence anyway so it's one of those is anything I can suggest to you is a joy when you have something like that it's important there you go this is great there's a record of that as well in addition to that no that is nice because it's been incredible when I received reviews that are like that it's an amazing feeling the grass from six pages of scary things that make you feel like the lowest form of being not there you've written anything so then have progressed to a point where you're saying if you copy the publisher says it is but if you want to fix it because of the things here's a couple of events that could become our fight but really it's fine you've done as much as you can physically do you have six eyes and words that was a really special moment for me I felt like gaffe made it nice that was when I was in the nicest job I've ever had because while it was a great great productive year cherry tree is very distant high it's fundamental to be in a place where you are stable enough to write because if you just living CZ pounds going from a three month contract free month contract chance of you being able to research and write on next is there a minute up point out was a visit by halfway through a at ten months contract which is short enough and it wasn't perfect but it was the best I've ever done this is a nice job of all the jobs I've had and I've had many I was really well supported and I had money to go you know the funded me to go away to conferences and they supported me today and research led teaching said a really happy time when I was at Lancaster he had that sort of stomach place hanging over yay because it was ending in a few months but I really went for it because it built my confidence up to the point where I thought I am facing this I am really good at this career I can't really make it go fast if I could just get a permanent job somewhere or at least something that lasts longer than just shy of a year it was a tough time after that the writing process it's difficult anyway and then when you call up cycles of the things life is staring at me it's very frustrating to hear people saying for we just have to make time or you just have to do it anyway and I think when your mental health is broken and you physically counts and words are not painful and that was the thing if I eat the right in process I find it healing and therapeutic pops I've had a problem since I had the health problems of last year my brain works very differently than it used to say I lose words and language is so important to me and I'm fascinated by it there are times when I have lost words it's a kind of aphasia and it's incredibly frustrating when you're trying to write and the words not coming it's gone there's an image in my head but I can write top line account describes the image the words that belong to that image for the fading I have do not exist for me in that moment and then medic system to take time and the time that I need done I think that's improved it's not as bad as it was it's tricky and it's another thing to overcome as painful as the writing process as anyway when there are things again she and also of course there's the practical thing so if I have a laptop that ship to South Carolina well for freezes constantly so it slows me down a bit so therefore if one were sharing each others from the living beings situations going on exactly this sensation but who's I'm just giving you an example of it now I know that there is a word for this sensation %HESITATION having now for this idea that might be no no that doesn't work for I think what's happened is that you used to be super human and something to throw away you can like us like last time when I think it was in the second season runs on talking the ones when I check out that yeah when mom went into that chamber and had his power was taken away okay he got beaten up by a normal person that's because it's my kryptonite I probably already had this kind of issue but it was wildly exacerbated by that mental health issues that arose during an extremely difficult time that led me to leave academia there's no provision for mental health issues really in this country and I think actually that brings us full circle with my extender fund athlete calling my senators beforehand like sender we'll never know probably what happens to him and that's why maybe it's wrong to speculate but the fact that he seems to have murdered his young wife and then killed himself I mean we don't know if that's happened or if it was just a side park shortly this is the interesting thing because according to Moreland she was told by family members and then he was raising her when she was off and I thought about it she was told that Max had killed his wife and then killed himself and that is difficult for anyone who wants to kill themselves even the job of getting themselves is of course a huge amounts of job of killing somebody else's work on certain aspects of it that makes it very difficult to detect but that's what she was told by those needs where is it because the press at the time just referred to a double suicide yes and that's the way it was packed and even in the documentary that model and other is providing the narration for I was it where it is he killed himself and took his young wife with him it's very easy for mistake where is a hundred years later you're thinking well the systematic abuse and this woman was less than half his age you have a printer he was fourteen she was seventeen there's a whole spectrum of things that could be she could have had absolutely crippling postpartum psychosis and have convinced him that he has no reason to live should we just so not only don't know anything about his personal life we don't know if hundreds years on what day of hats diagnosis of things that could have saved their lives may be used by public this is the thing which recently has been proposed but Joseph said that maybe it was the thing that was his crime car Magnus wasn't one of the many conditions been proposed before the assembly he was extremely by part and this one of the places where film history becomes biography a lot of people will go straight into that field of history with enthusiasm it involves needing to understand people hello and that's where my skills I think I'm sending him it involves too much speculation exists to have a sense of confidence but we'll have to see the program and additional records of people he knew him well and there's basically next to nothing by his wife it seems sometimes talking this afternoon talking about it it's just that's radio she's referred to yes and she was very young very young to have trials you don't know what's going on there but I think just a night of abuse that is coming to light and it's starting to be evidenced and some industry as well and of course is there a toxic masculinity that's already affecting him I mean in one of the clips the document she watched was essentially correct shows rather than a documentary and narrative films to run correct from his films to facilitate the showing off the cracks of sounds rough and ready anything else but one of them was he's holding it bear bait and I think his wife's another brand with another mom she was shocked all right so she could service and a night to think about putting you up on your phone calls on the phone and some of them was he going to see a doctor right some of those was her and she examined him and he was really ticklish I'm really nervous and then you come back the next day I'm much more confident lady proposed to her and she said yes and then click for expected of AB naming the baby into work one day to go and see her and that's about six men in her waiting room yes got one mining with and she's examining him and that she's holding her arms around them from the back and listing to his lungs from the back and looks like a way of examining somebody and then it gets really jealous another interesting he gives the baby into one of the guys who is about to throw out throws out we'll look back up so is the guy even though he's got the baby with it and grab some last minute takes the baby back and throws my project is not in service of mild jealousy read eight what I find interesting was that why he was walking with the database three all these men in the waiting room they were also looking up starring him and looking at him disparagingly as if he's on the fairway that's not mine for you you could say this actually being conveyed in their faces and he was aware of it and see turning range and they would try to find their newspapers and I was starting to think this is the stirrings of toxic masculinity because this is a man caring for his family and other men are disparaging him for caring for his baby because they associate that with women's work so I faced twice in the next round and what is typically moms work as a doctor from this point and she's the doctor for obese man and he's getting wildly jealous you've got a comedy of them throwing them all I eat and the baby getting mixed up in it and any stock in my filet and specific case because %HESITATION however montica says %HESITATION not threatened by all these other man that he need to examine for professional reasons I just felt like this is toxic masculinity on display it was a mixture of what city could be regarded as a criticism of toxic masculinity and the downtime in this or at least the enemies of the main character of the men who were judging the mind holding yes but he's been mistaken for seeing them as I'm typing this but just customers most of the phones about him being that character well this one works yes but but then the ending doesn't care or he's an idiot having done that everything's a mess as well then you are a guardian and a husband so part of the film seems to go into cemex ninety horrible kind of indicate think that's high RD this is coming three and cinema and I think more than a hundred years later and we're still at a point right here actually perpetuating fest it's like with the three billboards thanks Sam Rockwell wins an Oscar for his performance as a racist abusive murder you've gone beyond the point where you can make comments about stuff sort of thing because you're making it okay because you keep pertaining not character you keep retaining the person Hey totally flips of aids and does an acceptable things I mean this is very early on but it doesn't mean we can be okay with that the same as we don't have to be okay with black face and the jazz singer it needs to be called right but it's worrying that he's writing these films this comedy it's making light of that kind of situation that kind of jealousy and at sanctions violence sorry doctors say and it's totally unreasonable he's a guardian husbands account trust his wife to just get another job I'm back after the pay of eight counts of a media stranger does artefact life just life reflect arch in this situation it's not always helpful to a psychologist based on artists through their work there's such a collapse here if you've already pointed out right with the character and the person playing the character and they have the same name and his case hi much of it is him acting right things that he thinks are okay it's possible that the current him I go the other way rather than it being that the fictional Max's justice studies characterization of the remarks it might be that the real Max was a contrivance just as much as fiction so it may be that we have I have no idea what this guy was arrested on when things are proposing the book actually is that the latter is a version of a public persona that the film industry directly solicits one of the things about always maximums is the Max is a bass ability the comedy comes from a main character I'm doing is kind of being a president with slightly different from dramas and we are being invited the employees here at least is being invited to on the actual fear is being forced to to log off the main character but that may have caused a conflict for Bevin fixation with another has never gone away and I think the fact that it's played for laughs has never gone away I mean you've had %HESITATION TV series and many many many many fans that have done the exact same thing because I got to a point if it take with family guy for example having this child of that five acre and white Americans prev page nine Hey get to play with absolutely everything and it's played for laughs in anything he said shape at that other than that I don't know we've got trump in the White House tonight this is no longer funny you need to stop privileging mediocre man getting all the glory because only when not stops this everybody else everybody else can I say this is Bruce is one of the other aspects of this which is that is sure to from my seat mate on a visit to Spain the film is his Max series character learning how to be a toreador and doing it hopefully but then the second part of the film is actual Mike's Linda dressed %HESITATION Tory does affect actually fighting bulls although he's actually fighting while the small keeping deliberately given small fry and not just fighting them but killing them they've done nothing of giving him those metals the use of tassels on and it serves state by state engine putting about six of them into a small bowl and then there was a moment for me using a sword stabbed in the back of the head and it seems to pretty much instantly done and that's one of those moments where you go %HESITATION different error another bull fighting still happens now but for the purposes of making a film hearing date for radio when you got the license because it's fiction tend not to do something for real I've seen some films in this production stills from some films from this period where they represent animals by just getting humans dressed up in costumes and it's a comedy so okay this one still a scene from a %HESITATION another one of his films from about nineteen unleavened flat I'm one of our main characters one of female singers characters who is known as rankings users Betty and you can your aspect to the from nine in from she's been a long time in this film on the line and an address to come is is just a dog with a main effect of costume attached on his neck it's not a line but it's a comical line okay why they feel that they need to do in this Max from from nineteen twelve is going to show that they needed to go actual bullfighting last post from that point still have travel documents and that it was possible to share people prodigious bits from other parts of the world and that could be part of the appeal of phone services that still have a great fiction has still has elements of dementia the way the crowds gather trying almost carries in Laughlin sorry celebrate every day to feel like it switched and documentary felt like that's real that's a real saying that they're actually this is real people with the navy star mark sender should collapse between now and the setup you often hear about stopping malls I have seen some stills of stuff being thrown one massive crowds but the accounts %HESITATION usually overblown and there's a lot more plentiful than the actual photos of people being old but that was live footage of somebody being lifted on the shoulders of a crowd of several hundred people and he really seemed to be fine okay this is %HESITATION hold on now on the shelves of the several hundred people are being carried somewhere either I don't know why I'm being carried on the card out of the stadium it seems maybe that's gonna dump me in the river but I have to go this is looking for happiness was the fear was going with that the film on the happy face the way things happen these people who were famous with Publix who were orders of magnitude larger than the public's within fixed also famous just because of the reproducibility of at thirty thousand so let's enter titles so to them he's a Spanish hero as much as he's a French hero files I wonder is there a cultural difference %HESITATION with it being researched and found her in the Spaniards it's party time takeover faith says Jack one thing it was quite a feeling was when the extras which was the little interview with Melinda from nineteen sixty three so even though the she referred to how she has a %HESITATION what was that she was referring to English reserve in Australian nine it wasn't was it was it was English something English upbringing or English child minding English to mean cold and military right in the way you treat people and of course we would probably say German if we wanted to refer to a cold military treatment of kids or Prussian anything thanks we've my associate with unemotional but when a search it sit with Miller tree regimented yeah well I might have like fifty eight if you've been paying attention you're going to try to pick something here at tend to spiral everybody statements to the point where you're causing pain to your thanks and gracious to me and the kind of slack competitor I'm not here to colonial oppressor there is no English equivalent for catches cellphone display the just the running somebody humorously but dismissively yeah we don't have that we just go would you mind awfully can yeah we were not we do have like a and waiting the entire country is having a one day we can get something Welch on this this is sort of the cross the Irish Sea do you have any other points I feel like there is no two questions I probably had as you were talking but I didn't want to disrupt your flow that was quite flat but I think there were quite a few things that would be useful to T. sorry and the madness that is late and that's quite a bit to go one better than pleasure to chat with you about me but it's been good since last year a sign your own work as is the case with anything that is about to get published I basically already moved onto a different researcher thank you for telling us all about it here back and marks on there next time don't plan I think you need to tell me all about something in your IRA writing on all have been corrected hello thank you for that I didn't really get rinds cherry their contemporary relevance of the emergence of stars but maybe not something we can have a look at another time and more tax relevance to phenomena that we can observe happening now yeah I suppose so yeah it's one of those things were and are very pro it's kind of work in the arts and humanities we have to justify your existence all the time so the very taking question is why should we care about this guy and why should we care by the emergence of from stardom to we should care about this because the story is about a phenomenon that happened to a culture industry the story proposes a model of how cultural industries request assistance and whether that cost our systems and so such a model could be tested against and much in your culture industry testing such models involves waiting for real world things to happen so it would mean more actually I suppose the third option to just messed is testing it against Instinet specific celebrities if we were to pretend we never heard of internet based liberties we could look at what's just happened over the past fifteen or so years and find that if we did look at it if we found that there was a familiar story them we have a working model about how personhood and coastal industries interact and laugh with me was to make predictions about how they're going to function future of course just as an exercise in his militants he's a claim that's a test that claim against the evidence any basis culture is useful as an exercise in producing accurate knowledge so this could be about anything I mean to why do things happen so we could be of any question about why something happened and that would be worthwhile doing if it somehow raise the general bar for rigor and precision coming up with conclusions well that probably could find his own city a topic of mine at some later point as well because that's an ambitious project I want to J. S. fact checking the hell out of me and her last exhibition the thing around this is fact checking off something which is deliberately and openly lying many many many shifts mythology from all over the world from across licenses here but in addition to the deliberate open lies they may speak some actual closed lies in those well some kind of a apps actual countries yeah I will not present it is untrue kernels of chase chase within the lines and what all of that contagious in this world both faith communities hi Dan raffle the ninth %HESITATION mentality and what is reality but it's true well the screening of questions as I find myself saying anytime anyone says something like science deals with facts not with trees I was scared now the truth is whatever can be demonstrated to beach signs deals factory say what is truth my instinct is to go truth is whatever can be demonstrated to be tricked all I know is that it's like they're still I will always continue to be affect thank you very much we more than a year after recording a discussion yeah we're back again because we were holding this back to coincide with the publication of Andries back we're recording this at the end of April twenty nineteen and you have a publication date night on you yes I have good news and bad news I mean the fact that we're recording this over a year after having recorded that is an indication of how long it takes books to get published I already had a contract to publish it when we had that discussion I was just finishing it off and now it's gone to the whole publication process it's going to be out very soon publication date is thirtieth of may twenty nineteen and even on the publisher's website it says the sixteenth of may I don't know if it's anyway some point in late may it is completely and totally down the entire manuscripts it's been typescript is been supplied to the publisher the index is down you know what kind of work of proof the back cover and all that kind of stuff so completely done so it's going to be an object very soon and I'm kind of physically visibly vibrating the anticipation of this however the bad news is that even when we recorded this and we didn't know when we recorded this model in the how to read he died more than the whose real name of course more than there was a bit of an affectation because Mike's Linda wasn't even had that's nine more than that who is more to the DA must sell lo fi out she died in October twenty seventeen that's a good innings for somebody who was born in nineteen twenty four so we were discussing the work of somebody who had recently died at this sad and we didn't have never managed to get hold of it while she was alive and had lots of letters but she was and I was told this by acquaintances of has she was rather difficult to communicate with in the last few years probably because of the standard reason why somebody who's in the nineties would be quite difficult to communicate with and the last two years but yes exactly more Linda had already died recorded this one thing I forgot to mention when we recorded this was who was going to be publishing this book what publisher and it's actually good that I didn't because the publisher has changed now it was IB Taurus and IB Taurus has since then been acquired by blames bracket that make so it will be a boost rebook and that's going to cover and it's very beautiful it's the first time turquoise has ever been a part of my repertoire cover colors and an open mind it's not covered don't buy it because you will never pay off the debt if you buy it because it's it's recommended retail prices eighty five pound standard academic book stuff there will be any book pick it up on on Amazon's marketplace in two years time when someone selling it second but you know university libraries will get to and I will have a book launch shortly at Newcastle University basin is there anything else you'd like to say oh yeah one thing I have agreements with the title of the book is yeah and it's changed over the years it's called the origins of the film star system passed Senate publicity and economics in early cinema Flay not my choice of title but a compromise between my choice of title of the position with the choice of title you lucky things having an insight into the type of world that we live in yeah well I thought it was important today some coverage of that writing and publication process and academic publishing because that's what people have to go through to get any of their work done and it takes a long long time and that is made an even longer time if you work in visual culture because the logistics of getting images from archives and all the fiddling around with how we're going to be placed in the book for example I don't want to go skating how many you can have if someone does happen to be able to afford it you'll get to see something that has got a good few very interesting images in it I was good for mistreated many have since moved skill lesson you counselors well %HESITATION yeah I said it we talked about me being in the school of English literature language in English takes on now in the school of arts and cultures resentment moving up about fifty feet in the university of in the next building definitely think if anyone is looking for you on the website you're not on the right skill anymore I just thought it's worth mentioning that you've made thank you again for telling us so much being so articulate and remembering so much if I eat all of your process I think it's useful for people right there if they're doing archival research this is a really useful and hopefully to the S. and Tate so they will have a kitchen thanks for the long and of course I've never remembered we have a deal to have a nice long chat about Damien Hirst we have already done and I have already released and after so that's I. scape I skipped about after that so we can do it sometime anyway but %HESITATION I don't wanna platform take months because he doesn't really need it it was more my clever ideas about his work I thought were nice the platform you know drop that much I don't know so yeah anyway but yes you're on skates because I wrapped my ass I already for the podcast and I needed a nap so it's I have been listening to it I should already know that thank he's been listening to audio visual cultures with me Paula Blair and Angie Scheel this episode was recorded and edited by Paul the player and the music is common grind by air tone licensed under a creative Commons attribution three point zero and available for download from CC mixer dot org if you like the show and find its contents useful and interesting please help cover production and distribution costs by donating to pay pal dot me forward slash P. A. Blair and labour a pay dot com four bit slash P. A. prior episodes are released every other Wednesday please read it share and subscribe on your chosen the same platform as this helps others find the show for more information visit audio visual culture style wordpress dot com and follow a few cultures on Twitter and Facebook thanks for listening and catch you next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 17 – Somewhere automated transcript


please support our Patreon to help us provide accurate transcripts
hello this is episode seventeen of audio visual cultures I'm your host Paula player and this addition Angie Sheila knight discuss afia couple that somewhere a rudimentary website is up and running and can be fined it audio visual culture stop wordpress dot com if you can support the development of the podcast and website please make a monthly pledge to PTA on pre confined to more information for night enjoy our discussion on somewhere thanks for the moment even in pre production and according to our database they're they're writing something a pretty stretch I heard from since you only had one night last year soon the number do one every four years I think three to four years check one out of twenty seventeen so it's different from writing on something so probably maybe in a year two years three would return but for nine assists the last of the six services we can't we've done in a couple a joint it's not season has being translation but going over with virgin suicides management bringing in some way even though that means that we've actually done them in the following order if chronically that one three four five six we've actually done then two six one three five four but this is how I have been living thing by my student that's the only reason with them and I would spend you still having the motive thank if you like the whole principle of having unity to a direct example even if that's unity that figure collaboration with the same people is that you should be able to watch them out of order and not notice significant differences between I think this one being so this is twenty thirteen this one from twenty ten twenty ten even earlier this one is easy it's just by the technology summit by the phones being used by the way by it's our hero was a guitar hero or rock star I think the wrong service singing one guitar here was with the guitars that I had and there was I think it must been bound here when it was the fellow on the left it was guitar hero so the tires again for the week your controllers in Titanic guitar yeah and then they were playing Wii tennis which I have memories of my sister who has had to have a we have a supply that on there but that was the only thing that really aged yeah not content B. period party probably fake late twenty first century as we know what I would love because this is the nature of my being to make my handful of nerdy observations about form planning on do you want to have the wrong page and then we'll come back and just have a normal discussion it will be quite extensive because I can rustle through this quickly the first is couplet she's a big fan of long duration yes there's a lot of long takes over a lot of static shot this time but may have been one of the Jesus fairly thoughtful there were I think at least three slow for dalits and then there was one I would tell me which derives meaning from being a rational thought news from she knows her repertoire you know the took advantage of having to come to camera movement there was the usual or not because a couple of things couple signature trait having long moments of not having any Dodgers ago non digest music another brusquely having some only the Dodgers are commanders of music concert and that plays all the way through and then we have another fifteen twenty minutes of non music of any kind so there are the spots of northeast spots we listen to and on track as well as on this particular farm quite a subtle insistence that Johnny's not actually a film actor that's nice profession if you conform to being a Hollywood star I think he's actually good at his music and he seems to be specifically an action star or at least that's the phone that's being promoted and these talk about him doing stunt work in its new %HESITATION he's just done he seems to be option specifically which is interesting given that statement or displaying him and he's a really wide variety of roles and he's not the kind of star that he's trying in this phone the only time of the accident took place the use of commitment to your engineer what is and is not on screen specs very early on affirmative scenes for those long duration locked off shots the first was the very first on the phone which is just him driving around racetrack subsidies driving into an ounce of of screen space repeatedly he's moving in an anti clockwise motion for an occasion on on screen he's going from left to right but then from right to left to see these again and and circling around our wife and everything's in the bottom half of the screen actually so what you would call the positive space the negative space being the overcast sky that positive space is more like this bottom three it was very nice so it's not quite half but it is more than a third this is kind of open shutters I think you might find that are you consider intricately my current position and I think you find that you're going to trust that I'm going to do this for the rest of the phone here and that's great symbolic meaning even if its meaning that's entirely empty because I think there's a lot of things in the film that I noticed there's a lot of banality and the film is focused on and the next it was quite banal thing Reesing around this track in this black sports car there's a lot of emphasis on the Foley signs all the way through the phone the techie when not cars being driven system rated at all it should have the power of the engine and thereafter really hard on it breaks down and things so it seems like he's ready hurricane across part of it but the idea of the driving around in circles but also drive and then on to cook rice motion there's a sense of going backwards and that's very consistent motif throughout the film without cars and if this thing is a symptom of the ways because live set up somebody he's going nowhere and the preventing himself from growing yes press one of the dental division is very first shop which was opened on it like to pretend that I actually counted how long it was going to that extent then there was a slight delay to show an interest within the first few minutes well he's got these %HESITATION if they might be too insular twins but I just also was very similar between hold on for him and his solitary musings of portable problems and we're not doing it becomes what tough so that when they do stuff low down in the polls there are sufficient I'm absolutely obsessed with how funny things on the move into and out of the bottom of the short on screen off screen space which is something through the floor I think it just seems to be completely hilarious many other people look at me rather bemused when I point this out but in this one there were several sorts of been doing kind of twenty pole stuff and it came up short so that it was perhaps just the bottom half of the state this the phone number of the service the cameras going to re frame to observe you know and then when Jonny marker is a main character played by Stephen Dorf when he's watching his daughter cleo ice skates yeah and this is our founding and she's very good light skins Accern %HESITATION what is working and doing that Cameron noted being conspicuously three frames to keep her in the shop transaction is moving fast on that I tend to cope with him watching her eyes are the times when the cold on teacher in his hotel room and the similarity of editing patents yeah makes it a bit creepy I don't know though when I was watching him his fears acting is really just so fascinating the phone because I was getting a sense and he was watching the pole dancers he looks at them in a very similar way as he's watching his daughter ice skating but also in the way that he's watching the guy who plays guitar for them and things so then when they arrive back in LA after being in LA he seems to appreciate performance and talented performers I don't get that he's looking at the pole dancers and FLA sexualized objectifying way he's actually looking at them working hard doing that dance well that's the thing that I was going to point out is that the acting part in the cinema but other aspects %HESITATION dissimilar this two times resource and products is nothing referring to the second time he's quite amused by what they're doing he's like this is really quite creative stuff but the first to be falling falling asleep yeah that's totally different from I was watching here when she's asking him because he's going into exile this is talented stuff he sort of has an awakening there because he had no idea should even be going ice skating that we kind of start would be stopping your proctor moms and they have a conversation and asked her and she should have been doing it for three years you know and she's got old cats got the trash go the base everything and I did know down into it's a really long take that's watching her son broken on it really is a very young L. funding radiating a lot something and she is really very good another dissimilarity as I've said is the fact that it will be fine I think also mentioned a comp showing the balances of golf digest music and she's gone under thirteen years ago but no they don't does have a Jetta of course there because you don't this is not it's just it's playing and it was just the space is different because that's where the comic con mais and the hotel room there in this quite small enclosed space yes it hasn't gone anywhere to go home when he's lying on the bed so he's not moving he's just lying there static and maybe it's reflective that called off of them when they're on the floor he's lying on the bed so he can't see the floor yeah so it's subjective to hem maar as when they're in the ice rink they've got a huge big cavernous space yes and he'd be able to set up a Crian a rind in what turned move with her and that sort of thing the communists objective to ham I can definitely see why my student wanted to write about different classifications of space in each of these films because there are some strict demarcations which are this particular type of space is impressive this particular type of space in the right treatment almost always seem to have something to do with young femininity which is being oppressed of the rectify these different classifications of space the tiny swimming pool that they have access there yet most private swimming pool in the hotel in Italy and clear swimming up and down in that procedure thanks she does like one stroke it also would be good to make into the songs that go with these things because that first pole dance is happening today and they've got the see it when they're packing up their clothing opposing because tiny that open boxes then an emerging that first one to hero by the three fighters and this is not a particularly sexy song and the content is it's not by any kind of sexual or romantic relationship with the by a guy that everybody looks up take so it's setting up box it's more about his character that he's well he's playing the hero Johnny isn't playing here but only as an actor and then maybe he is is playing hero characters it seems we can reasonably expect to find this with every single one of these digestive transponders movie source is that it has a mind ready to function commenting on character relationships most of the women in his life four seven white with long blonde hair I mean this is just getting overly protective whole night and come from the phone there's also a trademark shorten covers films which is the women in the past yeah all the houses had a nervous I think we're going to see a lot of the province's path and the way they were showing response was very kind of lex's during yeah six and a phone takeover yeah maybe I don't really know I just call it as that makes it much more for everything for all fans rather than you say it's more appropriate high fat from life but then with tears I skating we've got more women in that kind of thing but that's just the kind of normal parts of an invoice cases that you have is complete and I finished I was gonna say I you know it the uniforms but they're in it can you know from the socks and sandals dresses it's in those like facts those costumes probably more prepared by the pastel colors yeah I wasn't going %HESITATION this is a really personal phone but actually there were fifty thousand with yeah and what people are wearing so the first pulled out the ring these tiny pink sweater dresses and then under where I would say probably coral time gap thing only they can not closely on that rainy tons body and cleo's ice skating or if it was a very peeled away with the usual sparkles and things your opponents is being just kind of grown up versions of his own daughter one of them they'll presumably both of them shocking John I think it's the base or something one of them get to know each because the calls of the wrong name account time apart and then when he keeps getting names wrong because all of the women he said so I've left exactly the Sammy Cahn tell them apart and then he comes back into his room very late on the phone and finds it both of the women in his bed I think one of the nurses had drawn and the took place and is not not not a good time okay with the move by the twenty three million of it of learning about the more perfect way to relate to women and that since and how much is on set because there's a lot of non verbal communication between him and K. %HESITATION when they're in it and they and he's going to bake some day and he's not an award show where he finds something Anne doesn't regulate you were saying it's a bit lost in translation Bill Murray where he hasn't really got much of a clue what's going on but he fired on the last show of this bizarre no warning and he did not happening and he all the way through he looks really sappy others all these women throwing themselves at him I'm not she's become normal for hands the suspect activity look so shop in there so cranes in prime this is woman who's really angry with him and take him off to the side insisted she think you'd never see me again and all this and then correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that same woman comes to the hotel room during the night and they you know so he can clear Ocado that'll bonding moments where they haven't been able to state and so they kept a lot of %HESITATION and and they're watching friends stepped in Italian that's quite funny cute little bonding moment S. reading I saying but then she has a sugar crash falls asleep he saw lying awake and then there's a knock at the door and if this woman and the next morning she's and a dressing going she's on the phone to pay people she's talking to cleo as safe she has entitlement today that she's also asking you how you will be a laugh and she have a boyfriend and this eleven year old is going and her head she can see her thinking of course not I'm %HESITATION Avenue are acting %HESITATION he eventually our rights and %HESITATION she steaming mugs but saying nothing she's just the way she looking at him and he's like oh I'm in trouble you know there's a lot of %HESITATION and facial acting going on there's a lot of gesture so much communication through gesture going on this is one of the two phones of the six which was an original script written by single plate because the others are based on real stories for the meditations or as another she didn't actually have a hand in writing it was the original story and the other one is lost in translation and that has a very similar scene where bill Murray's character whose name means Bob okay October seems to have his eye on a singer at the hotel and then quite late on in the film they actually meet at the bar and spend the night together and show that comes to bos room in the morning and he has the singer singing inside his room and she's even seen Caesar's row and that was very similar to that seen with clear being abruptly confronted with this and a woman and her and our service yeah price when that space has been established between a young woman I'm doing the math yeah but of course lost in translation it's a potentially romantic relationship between the young man it does actually seem to be primarily one of him becoming more responsible yeah lost in translation but becoming responsible which has shades of current relationship serves very similar things happening right the firm is fantastic at making its employing fewer feel really uncomfortable our journey having any of these relationships with them in his own name as if it's going to go does not want to do this but actually it's going I think you got into the wrong happened and to interact with one you're mentioning this lopsided by silence I love to see the scripts for these films because the idea that somebody statement moderate someone because the principal in a script if it's one page on the script it's ten minutes of screen time assuming that people are talking to each other yeah present couple of films as these pharmacists waves of people from their site and also want people to talk it's calm it's quiet there's no histrionics it's all wasted effort and a very kind %HESITATION dad pun play and even what we might call the film's climax where Johnny and supporters of because I think he just because his what seems to be his semi permanent partner you're listening by the one who keeps dropping in on and we have very little about the funds are being just says on nothing no one's going to use it I think it was and this is another thing is is %HESITATION if even at that moment he's crying he's upset but it's not that big shanty everyone needs to be feeling something really intensely right now but acting and even when cleo and cleo it has to be said it's an incredible character she is so capable organized not only is she great ice dancer and she S. as guitar hero she is a great cake you see her making really accomplished males and he by contrast doesn't count yeah he makes very sloppy basic meals that aren't sticking healthy she makes really elaborate complicated things and she makes it look really easy and seems to enjoy it she just doesn't she just phones up and borders the stuff and to make things and she just knows that there's no %HESITATION there's none of that when they're having breakfast she has a laptop I NG thank you making a list of all the things I have and what I need for comp and she's organizing everything but one point I wrote it is clear this film's couple ago and yes she is on the cover girl has certain characteristics and one of them is that sense of competence yeah very independent very able the second is that she's in her teens well she's a laugh and so she's pretty tame there's a discussion around whether eleven twelve countless teens tweens this is for if we say I mean she's very mature eleven year olds if you say I was born in the teens as an immuno of the ten I was gonna say he's running eighties someone set up on a channel in the team if you were in the teens it would be nineteen seventeen if you were born in the tent and she would have been nineteen twelve well that's how I would do it but I can't speak for all the few moments all right so she's completely I was a girl who is older than ten she's still a child she still girl she selling girl who'd go it includes quite a lot of years because Charlotte in most intensely she's the girl of the film well it took twenty third girl next to her if not for the woman that's what I think that's partly because she's being played by Scarlett Johansen who was only nineteen playing at twenty four twenty five year old I mean now finding I don't know maybe a Connecticut up water actually H. was when she was filming this but she looks about the radiation she doesn't like any older than thirteen certainly but he knows you calculation may not trade at telling the pages of small people he was born in April nineteen ninety eight so she would have been up by eleven or twelve when this is found when in twenty ten to come I should release dates seems like it was in the service maybe in the summer months of two thousand nine cameras from festival in September twenty ten seems general release the last couple months of content film the latest turn summer of twenty ten years almost exactly the same as a second yeah she's a couple of girls in some respects one of which is that she's not self conscious she's in recent she's very confident she does get cold pretty and beautiful and things like that all the time but there seems to be a respect I noticed that the guy he seems to be her uncle Johnny's brother seems only to be there when she's there he's never run to and Johnny's on its own with the pharmacy there's a party yet but he's not on his own because that's just some expand that Schiff stuff that is we have one more nerdy observation her city this you know how we noticed on yeah the energy sector okay because we noticed on the bling ring it was dedicated to him is lost from and he's been responsible for a decision to have one of the trucks with the bling ring ransacked house shot from quite some distance away an extreme long shot and it's just listen for the glass in this house another is that bit where Johnny he's been driven home after the press junket and this is the driver coming make a quick stop is on the ground at similar drugs is fine the camera stays outside still showing the comma with the driver waiting for John can see into the big window you can see Johnny he goes in and it's his girlfriends I don't know if it's come across to me that this was a regular person that he has I wouldn't say they had a romantic relationship just a regular person because he has lots of other people the full time I am up it was gotten quite comedic No Way women are eyeing him up and there was a letter that I thought was bald and lost in translation the question of who he is comes up quite a lot there's this identity crisis going on because he doesn't have a southeast this actor guy he's just Johnny Marco anything not name is starting on a message just to kind of generika geranium and there's no sort of personality behind who you thought could be it's just the idea of Johnny Marco %HESITATION that Hollywood actor he does that he spake blockbuster action may face and so these women I know he he is and they're attractive so he'll go with them on these main characters I did think of one point this isn't storms critique of Stockton the firm seem to be very much into people doing what they're good at I'm very much against people being famous for being famous and what we have with Johnny use him you know who will be working up by his agent phoning and saying this because outside waiting to take you to this thing he's not planning his dying during way tell done before going was directed by his agent told there's a bed at the party but this is really young aspiring actor stops him and tried to ask him a few questions some advice he asked Johnny if he studied socks saying anything no no I just call any agent that addiction started getting parts keep at it you'll be fine and just walks off and doesn't care it's all very funky thank you Saturday or to seems to be something he fell into by accident they didn't seem to be really trying hard to date the shift to come this guy and it doesn't seem to have been what he really wanted to today but that has given them this access to pull these things in life according to the logic of the from the reason why so constantly budget to do junkets and to do what he does to it the first program at primary and there's an award show he's become a production he's become yeah I think it's important to to an industry regardless of whether at the time of the phone takes place he's working out cool regardless of whether he still has the skills for which he initially became a production by the firm's quite strident that he doesn't have the skills anymore if he ever had the baby there was a lot of blood he's not a worker in a cultural market for the whole of this film even the bit where he's doing a photoshoot with us he's coached on the phone he shot some time for this the job of acting like their friends and Connie can do that that was a telling saying America wide shots show that he's been standing on the block to pay slightly taller than her yeah that's another point to losses major Hollywood metal stuff I'm not actually is total is working on a huge blocks in a couple of to three inches but if there any standing on a and it shows she am something on a verified and then subtly reveals that and I find it fascinating the scene where he has to go into that press static makeup child where he gets this whole had paid imposter this is a couple of things I think she just likes to have fun usual things happen for real in front of the camera yeah what's that it revealed itself there is a slight tipping over into documentary he said when I was playing when it reveals what it is they've been dating and that's actually been %HESITATION pathetic make up tried to make him look like an old man so it must be for his next role and it seems like a really reveal the fifteen rounds we could see the miracles of after hours of him do you make up and prosthetics I thought that Stephen Dorf coming round yeah hello brother no one yeah there was just a tiny glimmer of I can see why he might be a valuable worker in there this call for industry and it's that one we could get somebody who's actually done sold to play the role only somebody's young fit would have the stamina to actually work in a similar case eight twelve which shifts from from someone who's battled just would be able to or it may be suggested it could be a time travel thing for the film the skip in time because that's where we seen that before that was the smallest glimmer of some indication that he might have skills that were needed for this market yeah it was this is a guy who wants to be doing music it seems like these are the in term of mount Caesar the banal between moments of that way of life of thought industry worker doing promotion for one felt that was found a year or two ago fine you for call on the phone I mean your costar because you pastor off probably because he fell asleep halfway through %HESITATION you having sex with her like he does a couple of times with people and %HESITATION it's like a critic of the vacuous ness of this way of life and nothing's really radio even if there's moments of real life and that you can't get enough of the constant on them because he's not part of his daughter's life enough and they both know that they both come to realize that he apologizes for that in a way that's really silly because the scarlet helicopter behind him and she come here her in so much is starting as the practice of using a person as a production value because it doesn't include some sort of mechanism for realizing when a person is stopped being a production line that could be seen as a bug in the system our system of making culture which otherwise maybe okay as far as compass consent but she seems to think it's not okay for someone to just stop being stopped and both Bob in lost in translation and Johnny in some waxing to be liberated by those moments of anonymity they are normal guys swept up and nice strange way of life night notifying that this world of celebrity puts all the bike the image what you like I can not tell anybody Sadie says stop persona of the Hollywood actor Johnny Marco and he's really just living a life of what you're supposed to do when you are that person know that surface image of a person and not the real actual guy there's just no %HESITATION attachment and then not swear the identity crisis comes because there's nothing to read on TV and he's not even think he's living in hotel rooms he's call no home he's got no place of his own he's championed the stagnant and transient at the same time unlike most in translation the hotel is not a place of discovery and adventure the hotel is buying and yeah hello it gets quite boring actually saying these women just sitting around with no top on the fourth pair of boobs that we saw in this film was the point where I went %HESITATION we're supposed to have demystified these pointless point and says Johnny and Johnny paid to hire fifteen before spitting out office or on the mark well that's the thing because there's not ready for moments of these are on the phone if the agent has phoned and telling them about the at least check the acetate and he's just looking around and on the balcony below there's a woman who's been sunbathing in a bikini and she looks up she sees it as and she on those that became the top and basically flashes him and he kind of just turns around and walks away thank you yeah these women are telling him and a lot of different ways I am sexually available T. age simply because of who we are I'm not sexually available to all man from sexy the availability rate because you're a Hollywood star with no personality so I just want to have slept with you because of what he are rather than who you are as a person or that I even find she bop a tractive because he's really shopping came please never change the event he's been beaten up he's got his rest and that costs for most of the phone impedes his ability to do quite a few things he's got braces honest faith either execution but now he says as he stands and stomps that's gone wrong that kind of thing these days it was just the differences there just south I'm searching because he's actually pretty cordless and then I started to think about you can send the vision women here just really wanting to have sex with him I was interested in because there's one where at the party he just says hello to someone and then the next thing there and bads she's really gotten into it and he keeps repeating kiss me kiss me and that made me think well he seems to be wanting some kind of a faction not necessarily the sexual gratification but he really wants to be cast here he wants a faction rather than sacks they can't dine to things and he goes to go dine on her and then pretty much immediately falsely produce from ago always dead there's no reason was going to sleep out quickly we just died but he did not he hasn't necessary finest safeties prostate because he's been drinking very heavily and he's also on medication for pain and things like that the arc of this film is he learns to rise above all that stuff because of these developing relationship with care and it was working last year clear which prompts him at the end together I don't think I'm gonna be famous anymore and he just walks away from not just is great but the seemingly all of his personal possessions exotic car yeah he's just a guy walking down the highway with his concert yeah winds ten to the sun if the firm attended a couple of seconds earlier from a dozen often do without really upbeat numbers music in the last few seconds my sister would have been his golf clubs because the music to him before that was quite urgent and quite scary yeah where's that was quite a bit it was quite nice on any smiling and that was the thing is that the coverages and just watch him walk away it comes right into the front of him and I was looking at everything he's leaving behind the car they think they've left the key in the ignition so he has no need for this card that looks really found safe but sign second over Iraq and runs like an old crack it's not a good car and he was on the phone the fully signed some credibility I meant to write on here that site designer was and I just missed the nam so much of the start of the film is so quiet that the slightest signed becomes really amplify and pretty meaningful and there's so much non talking between Johnny and cleo so much communication going on they have a really sweet scheme of table tennis they're just in their fire fates the home really nice though holy that's really sweet and it just actually remind me your daughters the way yo planted garden in your bare face was just normal it's a family thing even during my recent trip to respond with tongue firmly in the White House had a founding member of table tennis with my little brother exactly done nothing with it for over a decade exactly the terms on this very important part of hunting and all that they do lots of reading I things together there's even a moment where he says you want to stay another day before I take you to come in she says yes her mom has decided it seems to just dump her mom's story yeah I was really expecting it to become a big thing where he would have to go and find what happened to him %HESITATION even though the restaurant is because something quite serious injures up into a mountain maybe how mom and killed herself I think you look into much into that space from the party shows just over ninety minutes and it was a bite those almost dead boring moments in life between things let's say I'm in the habit of going on to find out about big picture because I don't see evidence of that definitely worth the fight this is about the tiny things that will inform me I was hearing her voice in the phone being very vague and saying that can you just make sure she gets the comp on this date I just need time it seems like this person is going through some mental health issues we have very little by her we don't know whether they were married or not before fourth eighteen and that nothing relationship or not before we don't know if she'd been one of his conquests who got pregnant or if they don't actually have a meaningful relationship yeah I think that they probably did it but he's a womanizer so it's not going to work all right but cleo in the car %HESITATION Saturday but he very quietly brick sign that's quite soon after she has very quietly broken dined and the car and he just noticed says that she's been silently crying beside him and comforts her and he doesn't say very much all he really says don't cry and it's not very effective but then so should do fun things with her he seems to have actions rather than words with her I got the sense of optimism but he's been in Las Vegas and shooting craps in the casino yeah and she has to stand one away from the table yeah that seems to be an actual thing than the actual what is it creeping has to tell you to do actually told I was trying to do this list suddenly being in the same room as real people doing their job yeah and that's and that's the same with finishes out over yeah so strange it was like he just pop to come visit so for a couple on sex this is an emergency we need to for ten seconds so it's just a tiny conversation last month and I don't even know what they're supposed to be yourself or the stadium they guess it was so quick it was over in any never come back question I think on the fly through all these films because I have a hunch that I might be right is the civic open never shows people having consensual enjoyable sex to completion because either it's not consensual it's not enjoyable or it's not completed because of several instances in this if you separate or Johnny just passes out then there's a long way after some sex with the person who lives across the hall from him in the home town but it's happening off screen so it's not stealing shown you just have after Logan and had both going up and down when we watched force I was uncomfortable about the fact that Spielberg had made all the French people and young people speaking to each other separately we were hearing them speak French but magically hanging rather than having subtitling and just as infuriating as during seven product lines is there some talking welcome to speak in their native languages business sometimes so both are really jarring and then there's several numbers when they initially in someone where campuses speaking Italian and now sometimes again first quarter loss of yeah that's the timing dialogue and we're being put into the point of Germany yeah nine to seven cleo because they don't understand the Italian menswear with them and you just get a few bits and pieces and then some of the anti and characters and people think cameos as well because a lot of those were real personalities were saying that all things are tiny translations enough for him to have understood what's going on so the person interviewing them on the spot for TV and on the stage at the award shows this is speech Schrader and that time again but he isn't calling him up and the tiny in Egypt it seems the guy organizing and sort of in charge of everything is tracked their tops on the shoulder to let him know that you're going now when they say your name they're gonna say your name anything she has them M. I. consists of the stages you're sending clash they do best like that because they have to communicate with him in general the real people whose journey into it's with a really nice so there's a guy whose job it is to take care of his comma James he's going nuts the people who stuff the hotel that they were enough to initially the more local hotel well really nice people as a host of contrast between characters who have quite a serious counter deficiency and busy people around them who in spite of being busy or just generally nice and do things for them and then jump into somebody else's shepherd of income outside the swanky hotel in Italy the drive goes on even in a car and then drive is always here for you Johnny I'll take you any place just helping there was a moment when I think both of us got a sense that this was not into the graduate for me it was during the underwater basket not just the front those underwater filming but it was under water filming in a swimming pool a very bright day since the water seems to be kind of glowing with all this refracted light and then characters enter the shot from above the gym it is harmful and there's a moment of I'm not sure what I'm seeing those bubbles and sometimes everything and then they're looking more or less straight into the camera itself five midway through the culture cumbersome the graduate they have a really lovely bonding moment again and the political effecting a pretend tea party it's really funny the last one that we got there you can't go above that level thank so when it was really sweet and funny things like Stephen Dorf an alpha thing as actors must of had a reading of the report is coming three at least fifty dead from this one's in my heat it's meant to show initiative whose R. Carter and then he giggling coming and going he runs the show and he's got her over his shoulder and those moments I was going to market had a good start but it will but now it was okay to be done if we quit trusting they thought they saw is very sweet and the thing that really redeems Johnny is his capacity to have a relationship with clear which insulates her from all of these other versions of femininity these adult versions of femininity that are quite sexually charged is his ability to respect the fact that for a good at least six of seven years yet she's not going to be that convention and so you know be carrying her down the corridor weather's giggling and playing is one of the warm parts of this film that's the way in which scattered about there's a bit where chaos is describing a novel about a vampire not being able to be with unknown vampire we're seeing some pretty sure it was twilight rulers I was Russell it's not a blatant bid of Hey this is a teen and teens are different from kids and grown ups in fact become like aliens because I didn't think that such a couple did blatant versions of that but I suppose actually thinking about it she does the place that was a big novel at the time I mean if this is two thousand ten I remember people right now then I'm not the target audience the people he removed it from on the net and then Brady enjoy and that it was all right around that time and coming back there's also possibly a ferry flight and all of T. Stephen or characterization is the head of the younger vampires yeah his generation from Verizon sprint T. even very grown and they're taking over from the old %HESITATION course because there's something at bats K. for Sutherland and lost boys by Stephen door and how it affects I find Hey %HESITATION the shape of this faith thing I think it's a very sought after I I really like them he said SO three and she's really impressive this candy Darling and I shot on the fourth hole that's funny I'm going from a trans character and not and then this guy Johnny who's quite hyper masculinized as efficient %HESITATION you've got him freaking night when the Mr %HESITATION the agency hasn't told him hi this guy works on that his regular person becoming thank you for getting this month coming and that this guy works naked naked by men chosen by on that edge naked guy come on the it was one of those still self contained episodes set pieces this is the thing about corpus films is okay we're gonna have this thing happened in this country now and then that's going to show or something or it's going to slow is about the character is what he's gonna study changed character but then the causality that that sets up well because I was you know things about us now is when I'm gonna have another thing that happens to a character a couple of days later well a crew change from having sold the chain of change what a crew information about character and it doesn't give couples phones a sense of temporal use was the best way to put it doesn't lack something it just doesn't do that temple agency that comes from okay now we've got the causality from C. names going to seeing being now it's changed because of these events and that same chain of causality carries on scene six month lease agreement what sort of building up a little bit more of the picture by this guy because the central questions he is Johnny Marco because that's one of the questions he's asked that the pastor okay that he has to go to a and he can't answer that question he doesn't know so he's a guy he doesn't like that or at least doesn't like that being sprung on him there's a lot of things that are sprung on him again there's no histrionics he just cyclic I'm sorry man and I'm not into this thanks for coming here anyway but I'm not saying this it's all very amicable actually there's no drama it's just no I'm not happy with it so stop and I and the guy stops in a nascent fine it's been a lack of communication that has been not the fault of theirs we watched film score by John Williams recently if Germany was given that seeing your they'll be trumpets that would be violations galore there would be these kind of sweeping and motive melodramatic hints about how this was the fifth of seven points was complete just goes no no don't do that %HESITATION I play of intrinsic in about ten minutes time for the moment you're going to have this plant in a single shot and I'm just gonna acting do I thought the music was already restrained on this %HESITATION and it is used to log but compared to the others to slot machines in the bling ring it has to be there and it has to be almost constant because the gang are almost constantly listening to music and Marie Antoinette's she's almost constantly partying them contemporaneously that's being paid is telling a lot of the narrative in terms of mate but here it was a fully signed I think was great and I love the grunt work in this film it's wouldn't be accurate to conclude that she uses sound very little of all is that she uses sound in a way where the effectiveness of it both the trustee of it to me is heightened by the fact that for the past five minutes you've been hearing someone even just parts where there's a very slow %HESITATION Dalian on Johnny when he's getting that plaster work done around his head and all you can hear him very thing and just a very tiny ambient signs and the workshop or mind the really tiny just that Arab the white noise of life it's a quiet workshop there's nobody else around it just laughed and sat in there and he's breeding stuff %HESITATION he can date in that moment is great because it actually shows when they're complaining that surround around its axis hole has covered and he just call these holes at its nostrils all he can do is sit still and brace and the signed as Brady focusing on operating and has had century for intimate his nostrils are pretty much dead center to pull fram reminders is this medicine off because we talked about that is ostracized probably counting within that section Digimarc in some way we're not getting what it's like behind the scenes of filming a film or preparing for film or anything the film is just what it's like to be someone who works in that profession but we see some blobs of the work involved in the work of sitting down and having you had most of it is something which couple seems rather interested in depicting he seems to want to go okay I'm gonna show you a couple of things about what it's like to work in this industry one will be that your agents constantly on it hit another will be during junkets with people haven't seen for years and the other one's going to be just being very patient four people poke around your head that's very physical and there's a lot of to do non consensual touching that he have to be okay even at that press conference him the actress we're having the kind of hug and smile and talk to each other and they're not happy about that she the ticket is not happy about that but they have to do their job and they have to and she's better at acting happy about it and he is he just six actually conveys and I think it's a really delicate balance to get actually is that I'm trying to be happy with this but I'm not happy with this kind of look at your face doesn't you have to be slightly back to you with your online is asking me how he but not really happy with the tiniest little differences with how tight the card is zero and the furry forget because I think this is something that underpins the famine it's really subtle but it's easily forgotten about it is the text messages he keeps getting from the anonymous number that insults him and then full time usually I think three question posed to him that you think you're hot shot the VA stuff like that and they really passive aggressive almost operators times anything he's been followed they see me even to be taxed from somebody who can see what he's doing at the same that way the comic moments when he's just done something yeah and of course this is something that covers probably taking pride in by this point Accuray and I have no explanation and he doesn't even racing to react he gets the taxi looks at it you see what it is if it's a phone line for gains by that and so the next time it happens just looks at me so and then forgot about it but there's always see this internal buildup of stuff going on he doesn't really know who he is if the the sort of person Hey maybe he thinks he's doing something differently or that he's doing what he's supposed to daisy and LA if you're famous actor you're supposed to act like you think you are something but I'm just saying they I don't think he does think he is something because he's so peripheral alone and very public places he got the party seems to be in his own place he's kind of mowing your rhymes %HESITATION these peripheral he's in the background I he saying somebody had come over to get something and they'll say hello and they won't stop to talk to him not to smoke off very quickly then he'll just make a beeline for someone he's he's probably never met before but has been looking at him and then immediately it would be in bed together and again it's nothing to do with him as a person that day with him as an icon convalescing about technical for movies podcasts and the three guys who do that together Norwegian's eighth on Ryan and I both have this constant comedy routine about how when they go to a theist events and on the go three of them recently at the American atheists annual convention in Oklahoma City that party women just throw themselves after three of them even though as they constantly joking apart costs none of the three of them are a tool easy on the house that they're a lot better as oh dear I used to think unless this guy exponentially I can believe this something of a celebrity here even if it's minor celebrity we just lose your ability to make important distinctions in that situation another stylistic thing complacent because comfortable keeping our cameras down to earth people's faces yeah so do it only in close yeah even with those slower in which creeps doesn't get too close to a dozen get intimate the majority of the shots %HESITATION no closer than medium long shots the long shot seems to be able to stand it there are several ways of making distinctions about things that are further than long shots of the very long show the extinguisher she's fine with that as well as safety the ping pong table tennis if you take the same action and for me to really concentrate on the interaction between two characters you for me in a simple short consultant way shooting each of the two actors in something like mediumship maybe made in class it's a very complex one camera filming no question the sign but also from one of the corners but back quite a bit so it's a long shot you can see everything and they're doing it for radio there are actually falling on mission to be improving as well yeah yeah it's reasonable to tell what is improvised dialogue and what is not but I think it's one as places where you can trust your instincts but they probably built up a reporter and she's been able to say just play a game you know and to be fairly naturally about remember your roles with each other and five go to Stephen she doesn't anything to call them anything to call them does not have any point I don't think she does I think you hear me every user name on the score their name tattooed on one of the alarms he's got quite a few tattoos I try to have a look at what some of the mark one of them said made in the USA there was another one that was broken but I thought it looked a bit like an eagle with stars so I thought there's maybe an American hero thing going on the all American hero again this is sort of mythical character that doesn't mean you have a personality it's just a stock character type really which seems to be the sort of roles that he plays a factor as fallen into playing there was a moment when they passed a car crash and it seems like it's a one car accident is very brave as they're passing it and it seems to be a sports car as driven into a wall of mines the ruse that hundred cable just not America already rolled down a hill and into a world without a driver it seems like they were just walking into work that morning on filling this out so much Hey this is been a constant %HESITATION Sunderland city government okay right I will get a comma we use in that it's gonna be a random thing that I found is that some of our sister is quite a history of films that feature car crashes in somewhere another but I think it's a big thing and John that god hours early films there's a lot of car crashes and has already found initial out of characters passing the aftermath of the crash we're getting into crashes that sort of thing the image took me back to those for a moment thank his weekends and I think it's even and Epicephala breathless there's a part where Michelle is quite nonchalant ruined an accident in Pittsburgh scoping out at something related violence does happen and people are just coughing up a list to be direct paths thing thinking about filming process is a film in which a character very early on get an injury and then spends most of the rest of the film with a conspicuous piece of dressing for the injury the only Capcom's miners Johnson all right yes but there are others I would think and when to you is that you chase by writing on her dad's Kosten it's caught in an interesting way you have the second time with the pole dancers and one of those really annoyed with them and goes off and the other one goes up to him kisses and unpopular bubble gum and then there's an implication of not that sex happens and so it cooks the block and then the next thing a woman's hand is writing on the casting me think up the next morning and this woman's writing on this cast and then at the receipt with cleo hello garland it's clearly because she threatened her own %HESITATION trying inner knee and that week search out up top need me thank all of Grace Kelly and rear window because she is the first to write on Jefferies cast she writes here lies the broken bones of I think it's J. B. Jeffries I think actually you see that on his cast and places available later in the film as something similar at this part of her before you're sure to feel about it Grace Kelly paying this woman that was one of the shows that made me think when it's fun revealed that it's clear I'm not one of these two pole dances he seems to be having a relationship with that was one of those shots that made me think that is a deliberate attempt has to try and make the viewer feel uncomfortable about regarding the sexual beings because they hold up to some point where an eleven year old girl the firm just going through just gonna remember that women humans because there were kids once everything's in the house is it may be trying to say this adult hurting kids maybe doing something very different nearly opposite to the %HESITATION it's worth a rewatch of her entire corpus to times yeah thank you is very agile and that she is so capable I mean she's more capable than our parents in many ways and you think what are kids of hurry it's more capable and then made a C. thirty three it's because we've come tram tracks this may be the model for couples that is fit for X. when one is made fifteen one is that one structures not maintain she's thirty ten I mean this one that I'm not meant to the state was looking at her in town up there is indication that she's going to develop she's going to get back to you can become even more capable person and she moves further on the twentieth and said look at all the other couple of girls average the Milan the H. for these go seems to be meeting there does seem to be a sense that she has maybe had to become not capable because her parents are not capable thing that struck me is implicit criticism of Orlando is drinking doesn't seem to be any positive drinking because that's all drinking absolutely smashed out here has look in order for the phones of couples that we've seen last couple of months lost in translation drinking satiated with empty rhetoric mines one that there is some teen rebellion drinking and drinking for teenagers investigating is the first time that's okay bling ring this is so easy to criminality as jokes that go with the checking their drinking by adults in these films is not a good thing teenagers seem to be more questions to the benefits of drinking %HESITATION which is just a computer better providing against the parent culture I was thinking actually with other potential very subtle phone references when he's getting the path moulds done it was making me think about it the invisible man but this had dropped off the way it is and then again that questions over his identity he's quite anonymous in many ways Johnny Marco to email first name the first name and awareness Mike's par can expect an RNA fish public competitions with other Hollywood Johnny's action heroes where the name just kind of trips off the tongue when I was a teenager are quite pretentious laid plans the pseudonym I would use a five became a published author as of course is the No one one as a teenager and fix so confidently of one's abilities I've never used it on the network so I'm happy to share it I was gonna come as Edwin Andrews is one the things that says this isn't a real nice because it's two first names slinky retooled to make it look like an actual center same thing about John rocker's has that smack of even the stories by someone that he can be his real name because it's very common so I stopped working in a highly career in the city I think even the marquis or something like that and that's very common for people to come back to sure descended from immigrants say under five magnify the name Eric boundaries for example binary is actually short for badminton and there was a small indication that that might have been what Johnny done because the film here's a junket for seems to be about taglyan them no no I. Latin American characters there's honest about how the film up since last American characters and you just seem to blank yeah Hey Jeff question you got the sense that he turns up and he does the lines and then it goes again the young actor the young aspiring actors asking what kind of process he uses to see some assets %HESITATION here thing what what you mean method acting yeah yeah I mean that %HESITATION no I don't see any of that stuff he wasn't giving anything away but there was something this time to trace that he just doesn't really do any preparation he just turns up a satisfying to goes on I think a lot of actors do that it's a part of the machine they don't need to be experienced it turned out they say they need to say on the day somebody's probably feeding them the lines from the sidelines they just turned up the day they go wasn't love Kuleshov here broke that whoever you put in front of a camera to make fiction film should not be an act it should be something like a will he call the marionettes I could call them back to my kids anyway whatever time used the occasion was what you really want to put in front of a camera remaking a fiction film is something this is Kirsten automaton as possible but we just moved a hand from down here to up there at this particular speed at this particular time you just want to cost people according to the given physical qualities like heightened shoulder width for example have a book that kind of thing you know because people have things that they can do if they put some effort into it you know it costs people for their ability to protect and there is a lengthy history people and from at least being popularly demands to become film stuff just because there's some characteristics that they were born with rather than anything that can bring about fifty after faxing and rather than the ability to learn the skill of acting so that might be exactly what we just go in somewhere it's difficult again at least in this industry one does not need to be able to it just needs to be able to do exactly as one is told at any given moment what is the weather is actually true because it seems that amongst the assortment of the A. list stars yeah you've got a bunch of people who do seem to play themselves as a whole debate about whether the person that playing is actually themselves in these films because maybe they themselves that we see outside of the films is itself performed alongside that contra factors you seem to be playing themselves as another contractors who pride themselves on right the variety of roles they play definitely indicates the acting is something they have some ability at least I thought it was interesting hi cleo always has this to do good for tiny details used to being left on our own whether it's fire mother or father she's always prepared to occupy herself was a really nice touch because she pose that open date not long arrived at the hotel and that lady and the woman behind Greenwood Johnny because some of the sites this is an accomplished artistic using detailed measles and again it shows you have in your old days it okay and this is at the time and it has just exploded as a globally popular phenomenon she's got his back to defeat it she goes out of her product and just set those up because she's been left on our own so are you part of an increasingly small crowd said okay aficionados I was really big into different accounting that's the logical thing it's not just that she has something to occupy her this child has a lot to go brain she likes to solve puzzles she could give order to things she's coded as being very clever very organized orderly but even when the order arrived Herbert signed at a fax her again it's not very difficult conversation that this topic that company keeps bringing up is that people with the most excessive privilege and the morals are still not happy people that all the wealth and all the mobility and all the beauty and all this and this and all the nice clothes no look the hair being able to travel I mean all of those things if your parents are transaction in own life I'm not affecting you as to the left in your old need to control over that it's not that fun and it's difficult because if you come from any other kind of background and the last of the perfect system not that difficult to emphasize for ladies I'm just looking back through all six of these phone companies seems to concentrate on what it's like to be eighteen or does this seem to confirm what it's like to be in a position of go anywhere in this film the main point here is the bass off Johnny get some implied point of you stuff about creative but it's definitely not a film where care is the main character she's not then for the first few minutes and she's absent for the last ten or so minutes of wealthy she disappears from the story which is quite significant cactuses cannot be principal point of view character that's right the day unlike the other couple films because a lot of lost in translation I see most of lost in translation is from Charlotte's point view very sincere science there's a lot of the wells from the point of view these girls even though we don't get to hear what's going on and in a psychological landscape lingering the guy old man into an apple from the viewpoint of teenagers %HESITATION isn't even in the Commonwealth actually the phone doesn't start for the male characters it starts off with one of the girls going out to pick mushrooms and she finds him yeah this is unusual in diverting quartz lots of its attention to the outlook on life off and I don't mind the clear the thing that that amount is missing in his life is a meaningful relationship with a girl natural gas my name is on the phone towards the end he was breaking down into his regular person asking her to come over it seemed like he wasn't asking her to come over next Saturday for sacks he needed company needed affection attachment something and I was thinking he doesn't realize of what he really needs is his daughter he misses her and it's not clear that he recognizes that stops he's missing that cities trying to fill the gap please there's this boy age because he has a really good relationship with his daughter it's quite an effort this relationship mostly because she is so mature and self entertaining maybe a bit of a surprise to find that what he was doing that in the film was just striking out into the desert because I thought he was going off to spend some time with the smart symbolic thing I think because the film begins with them driving in circles and it ends with him walking forwards and leaving that behind and is spending the time with her which has enabled yeah so it doesn't just sit back now is one of the value of that relationship in the end this is a good piece of work I think yeah really solid phone I think that's probably my favorite of the six months didn't did say those somewhere was quick question I don't know if it's because I'm tired and it's been a long day but I did feel the time passing listen but we are used to things just moving much faster and a couple of sums aren't slow cinema but they are much lower than conventional film night so they are something in between so cinematic and conventional cinema what number is this if we're counting put costume which you and I've had a really tiny do you want to chat that's not the right past nine o'clock at night next time difficult because this is working all day and then by the time we watch the film it's usually after eight or nine I'm gonna give myself okay I have done something I rarely do we serve what's the entire scope of the films of director and publicist films are you okay yeah the system made about the same amount again %HESITATION tools okay host internet feature from apple right not counting luxury yachts have because that's a film of an opera that's a life thing most not yeah that's not quite the same okay so what center fees from out the office and director and I have watched a body of work which is student of mine is working only because the student is working on it well primarily I was forced to because I want to do what Copeland for for for many because that students writing on it I've done stuff like this before I had a student writing on one film for a five thousand word essay Anderson from before and it was the asset but they were specifically assigned to me to develop over the course of an entire semester yeah in that situation of course but never gonna watch the entire fees from out of a direct have you seen any shock on the war on their causes and the fame might have seen all of my parents films that he happened to me she was well into a very who's in town I have seen but at the moment then when I can be sure of is the script I'm currently are not not working completely opposite leave the piece of writing that the student wrote on the company's phones I'm finally getting around to marking the day after tomorrow so I'm actually finding a quick to market this thing which I know some other things of note I think for the film this is a really nice static shocks quite alone seventy eight with clear %HESITATION and Johnny and the guy seems to be his brother her uncle %HESITATION sitting on the sofa and they're talking about stuff the whole time Stephen Dorf is amazing the cast for rail on his arm he's coming off from wrapping it off on that so real and it's all in one take interestingly as well like the show much that is performed for radio in front of the camera the camera static or it's there's no cutting it nice and the likes if they pull down saying that ice skating the guitar playing the guy playing the guitar and singing as a live that life this file but Johnny slash Steven door is not actually playing the piano and the back or we find he can but yeah because the show is so that his times are scared and we can't see he's not really playing it severe life twice with a Stephen Dorf pushing play FE compared piano is not as accomplished as the character is a show in which we can see a van Palantir's discovered and championed India to become future I was one of the more indicative shots of this restraint about getting cameras up in people's faces this lady is not convinced Starbucks are firm in the next room camera position and their status to provide a revealing comparison my colleague Tina tells me that when she's filming she always finds herself standing behind her own camera operator and physically pushing him closer to subjects and having seen only one of a film that I haven't seen it twice she loves to get cameras Reuters scribbles there's multiple sections we control for direct is on the spectrum of how close to one count as directors like to get to the cameras speakers at the distant end of that spectrum is a second think of any directors significantly further away from that cactus I would say if you go to %HESITATION soon yes I hear you say and maybe even the likes of reporter Rossellini whether Commish just sitting back and very domestic but now things are happening at the focus shop where everything is and clear view and it's up to you for your eyes to wander around and decide what you want to look at for me at this is communicating faces just them being themselves in the space for art ciders for checking in on this we're not getting too close because it's a private moment but also it's one of the many examples and some wire both non verbal communication and nonverbal bonding between father and daughter were difficult this comfort with him just playing a piano and she just called up this nine or not long before that where the guy he seems to work at the hotel free shipping the song seems to be called something along lines or at least there was a line of I just want to be your ten the barrier he's playing the guitar and singing to them SO very intimate moment and quite a fake public space yes but not that many people then and they're quite peripheral to everybody else he said Orion's fifty scoreless okay in an open space you know when I curl up on the sofa together and they're enjoying it and they appreciate the performance and it's very special the guy's not doing it for money he's doing it for pleasure today's essay title is severe coupler is in New York NY a realist filmmaker discuss because it seems that there's little elements there of wanting to be a documentarian in one section well there's a blurring because every film this document change every document thanks for listening and thanks her old shares on social media and support on Patreon at all makes a really big difference in getting the part I am making a podcast marmite they accessible to join us next week the same service girl hates and teenage girls %HESITATION and found a man that kind of thing they're all gonna pool Siri into next week and I've got a different co pilot so I really hope you enjoy listening to Christy Smith with me next week until then take care