hello and welcome to body visual cultures the podcast explores different areas of the arts and cultural production I'm pulled up there and in this edition I'm sure she'll and I discussed see if the two thousand fourteen Peck said in a Christian high school huge thanks to membership Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for all your support it is especially appreciated during lock sign on at time of recording it's my only income at the moment if anyone else listen to this week's like to contribute in some way you can also donate to PayPal dot me forward slash PP a player or share the podcast with others you think would enjoy it listen I for further details at the end just so you're aware we do the some ableist homophobic terms that crop up in the film and while we respect individuals we reserve the right to be critical of religious doctrine towards the end there is also mention of suicide and domestic abuse I do hope you find this discussion you maybe what because of what they really just for one or two on Netflix Netflix now just pick some religious content to go through you must want to watch this this counts overtly as anti religious content or at least mildly critical of religion content so we watch saved exclamation mark styles in the opening credits I was saved exclamation mark in the form of a cross two thousand four directed by Brian Donnelly starring very team pick conte added this is the year of the passion of the Christ thrown out macaulay Culkin very handsome because normally I fall when she'll sit down watching a related symptoms I know some of the notes in %HESITATION kind I don't like going into this territory but we rented but if I can't have that now thanks for watching I thought phone for Cauley Culkin Mandy Moore yeah okay let's give it a try two thousand four all right yeah that's when I really got %HESITATION offset and I'm wondering if it's going to be one of those dark horse type ones I think this is the maintenance and the films this is something that he thought a little bit and sat at the back I think it was what was the name of the pastor for going to same organizers said the second time with the kids type of posture is going US descriptors so pastor skip says the one point you about Christian rock well somebody said to me there's not much difference these days between ordinary rock and Christian rock and he said well that's the point because you have to get the man you have to get them enjoying things and then hit them with the message and I feel like that's what that film in general was trying to stay we can talk about I'd say if you pray yeah well the only available that is how Christian culture in the U. S. works it just takes a thing which is popular time copies it slaps on a layer of Jesus year before last when I was teaching my religion and recent US from Marshall we watch leap of faith yeah which was %HESITATION nineteen ninety two film starring Steve Martin directed by Richard yes it seems on the outside to be highly critical of religion because Steve Martin is a faith healer who is a virtually a scammer and he's got a whole team of people who are really experts scammers one of the advisors on the phone what was a magician magicians are famous deep bunkers of faith he lives tradition I mean they're in front of it disposition of Mike's magicians of debunking people who actually spend have supernatural powers so some presents as quite scathing indictment of a particular flavor of Christianity yeah when we got to the end of it my students were of course having this discussion seminar I'm just very openly you hasn't open question for discussion said what starts to reckon this film takes one religion and one of my students rather than gently crawling from on the outside it's critical but I think perhaps the sentiments and there is none of that she just went that's the most endorsing of religion film I've ever seen and that's what you have because it is on us or why and they have that they want well it's because it looks like it's critical seven from the position of skepticism it then delivers a message in about the last ten minutes were essentially redeem some choice bits of the religion question as a result of obstructed it essentially goes these people don't count as true Christians but if we just sweep over us all right we'll find the order the nuggets at the center of Christianity there's real bars following and truth saved from twelve years later the more I think about it now I'm thinking it does exactly that exactly that structure is presenting as it is highly critical critical of speaking in tongues it's critical of both vehicles it is critical of religious hypocrisy it's far vertically critical of gay conversion therapy you know putting it on but it has a main character who's the antagonised here's the most use the same person and she's immoral and I'm ten different ways so yeah it's a very critical in all these ways in the last ten or so minutes has a sympathetic characters expressing these very well I'm sure Jesus is working in our lives anyway moment at this little bit of voice of animation by the main contribution for she says Mary when she says life so beautiful and complicated it couldn't possibly be just assumption of for Britain monster energy working in the universe there must be something broadly within us I know that the music at that point was quite GC it seems to go well yeah we're not actually going to hit you with a punch line which is a criticism of Christianity in front for the criticisms I've just been aimed at the people who it's far as if I'm going to get concerned don't count as to Kristen there is a slightly early if it is in the lead up to the climactic scene when married women protagonists starts to have a bit of a reconciliation with people he she's estranged from and some Christian rock is playing in the background and this is vague sentiments as god's working in your life I don't have it just occurred to me the gay conversion therapy in the film the gay character is sentenced to a place called messy house which is supposed to be a place that applies gay conversion therapy the guy conversion therapy it doesn't actually happen no agencies and if it's in a room with another person with the same affection commences and yeah come lovers because there's only two gay people and the whole obviously they're going to fall in love for him to say Hey day conversion therapy doesn't work on the surface that is going to because of a particular flavor of Christianity the claims and things on both sides of the Atlantic that you can pray the gay away but what goes on at this place isn't even gay conversion therapy so it seems that what is doing on a deeper level as it's going how old is worrying about people trying to convey that gay people no one's doing that business social home being brought about by this existence of the sacred texts in the existence of beliefs in homosexuality being wrong the main characters at the end there's still dripping with crosses that from this kind of new family where does the mother who's eighteen she just had a baby Mannering who hasn't conceived immaculately part of it causes some of Christianity that and I have a boyfriend who's the pasta son and aposs there here's been having an affair with the main characters of mom and the father of the baby whose guy and has his boyfriend there and then we can gather around and I got friends as well as your friends and family I'm fifty friends I got her crippled boyfriend the motif is we'll have a get back to basics of Christianity thing and the basics are of course a handful of choice bets very particular interpretation of some bits of the gospels in which Jesus is basically happy this seems to be the more I think about it smuggling underneath what looks like for his big I've read criticisms of Christianity it seems to be trying to slip out of gateway version extremely long it's kind of quite colorful life version yeah stance that's one built on tolerance and acceptance which you can get from the gospels if you ignore ninety five percent and that's what the staff all sorts I should cut everything except the chock full of my neighbor and love someone yeah it keeps coming to me more and more that the way that you can face any ideology and sacred text you can sell these actually mandated by the state says you can just read it we have a kind of buffet mentality which is on file already hold the same values that verse doesn't agree with that mandruss doesn't agree with it some disco disco disco because you got all that verse if I squinted could be said to agree with it so I'll come up with how you supposed to squint and put that in the yes pile no no no no no or there's one that doesn't stick it with that continuity of care that goes in the yes part of and you can do that with anything as long as a sacred text as long enough as long as it has a few thousand verses in it as I was running a recording but it was a time you can make it say absolutely anything that you want protected when most of its written and actually that means that you can balance of metaphorical interpretations this is the year of the passion of the Christ and this is its conciliatory what seems like a religious film making considering that and that is ultimately just going all I'm sure that all this Christianity stuff is just fine I'm sure that the people saying that you can pray the gay away I'm sure the people saying that I'm such charges a sim but they've just got a little wrong and Mary our main character does in the climactic scene rail against pasta skips when he says that on the six from the same she does well against him saying that it's his particular interpretation of that verse which is what he's been hearing too bad not the actual true religion this is interesting with merry she gets pregnant and quite an innocent way doesn't she and that's because her boyfriend's Jane during a summer at Matt sorry that he thinks he's gay she has a bit of a chat with Mandy Moore's character Henry stay gone regions this is everything on the firing range in the gun range for heather you face talking about it well you know she doesn't want to get right after anything so she's shooting fed human shaped targets yeah this is shooting the target and another area and she's saying you I need to be protected in case they get raped you know they're talking about that sort of thing and try to work for you what can she do the right thing what could she do try to help him she was very courteous person but I think it's heather you face that he says something quite flat bed to bite will you can pray to Jesus cherry was almost give you your virginity back so it's not a physical thing but it's a spiritual thing because if you've done it for him because they're having this discussion paper yeah by the very when it might be a good idea to have sex and that sort of stuff so king Jesus grungy back your spiritual virginity and so Mary then goes off thinking well I can do a deal with Jesus because if I do this to help train to turn him to make him realize he straight by having sex with him then I'll be doing it for Jesus right just to see if her boyfriend's from damnation and she'll just spirit she got her virginity back so that's what she thinks she has done so it's actually a very faithful anyway that's never brought up again she doesn't track her I don't know never again she just says I did it because I thought Jesus told me today that we could use the excuse or if %HESITATION for various things that's one of those early stage points over criticisms of religion because it goes this thing tells you that there are no consequences for your actions this thing courage's people to live consequence free yeah and living in that way leads to actual negative consequences even though the promise of you'll get your virginity back is couched by Hilary Faye in or you don't get your actual virginity by physical virgin to back there's nothing typical that changes as a result of Jesus giving you it is about Hey %HESITATION just give about your spiritual person and so it's just the way that it's couch there's already an admission of ineffectiveness tempted Jesus is present yeah even that element is taken back a little bit at the end because Jesus does make his presence felt market products when Hillary Frey drives have banned sideways into the big Jesus statue in his head falls off yeah yeah and she goes to court and there's a lot of swearing specifically blasphemous were victims of crime he does intervene he metaphorically into things simple and talk climax the sorts of putting back can to place these bits of Christianity of a Virginia based in previous incidents are not windows I'm just looking back at the dialogue for this climactic scene when Mary shouting opposed to skip about how no he's wrong about homosexuality as your first to some stupid idea of what you think god wants as if he's just invented the interpretation which says that the Vatican's Jackson's eighteen verse twenty two and twenty five thirteen as if they just didn't exist if he's imagined them start setting up the com possibly say in your book what it actually says in Newburgh that's a huge favor to Christianity and it may be that Brian Donnelly has zero religious beliefs whatsoever but even so he's made a film which essentially goes %HESITATION I'm sure your religion is fine I'm sure I can possibly say and the special but what it actually says station I'm really fascinated by the idea that this was purchased by Michael stipe of R. E. M. and I don't know very much by Michael sipes personal life I'm not really interested in non celebrity personal lives I think we should be personal lives unless they've done things that the rest this rainy often all right for safety reasons I don't know if he's religious or not I mean I suppose the office one to turn to their is losing my religion you'll be interested to know what his involvement what his motivation was he seems to have been involved a little bit and music as well Ian Monday Mar have done a cover of the beach police called on the nose for that closing credits of the film Microsoft comes from a line of Methodist minister okay but then I wasn't mean he is still even conceded no I face an actress question and if he's had a hard time because of their sexuality or anything or something probably to like and share if anybody's interested it's just the production side of this phone in the sort of music stars that are involved and that the music as you say that at some dependent sorry much independence Christian rock %HESITATION okay points for me the school doesn't overtly stated it's call them America our American Eagle the days of religious school of therapists it's an early Christians go but it's not many M. S. all right yes American Eagle yep you got it right American Eagle the school it doesn't state it's the nomination as are watching it I thought occurred during speaking in tongues but there can also cool they're doing music on stage and then when they started praying together they pray like that yeah I'm sorry yeah well sometimes one sometimes one usually to yeah but I want it and that's reason enough to go out thing backtest beyond what could be the entry for the film director and co writer Brian Donnelly based much of the film things he has experienced and witnessed while attending a Baptist Christian high school well while self five great yeah I don't think it was a difficult gas so that they'd be Baptists three five the thing up by its largest Protestant denomination in the United States this is a fact and also they're saying a healthy copies there and a Christian rock yeah having been to about this Sunday school and also went to a Methodist church I can really see the differences we looked into the some of the people there are in this and you want both while watching it so that even I I'm already in place Cassandra the one yeah he's call ethnically Jewish person who whoever is trying to get to complete this is like they're coming in the states that a Christine is a completed June and so the only one who's Jewish just hasn't yet realised the business side she didn't turn out every Jew has just made a mistake about missile if they convert to Christianity they've just completed they are so she's the one I think the Jewish girl at the school and it seems that she's basically an atheist yeah yeah following a non believer unbeliever yeah as far as we know your bones with Roland the brothers to Maine yeah brother of Hillary fi understatement macaulay Culkin yeah well this is interesting because I think the way we usually did a podcast by Miseducation of Cameron post and there is a non disabled after playing a disabled character and not fell missile this comes up again with macaulay Culkin I mean it's two thousand four I don't know if it gets a pass because it's before the woke times I don't know but it's just something to point out I'm not really running criticism are making a comment I'm just pointing it right that he's playing with real terrifying character in Plano I thought it was great I really enjoyed this performance it's really nice to see him because I haven't really seen any of this adult roles and he's quite young adult here he's only in his early twenties I think we covered in bone in nineteen eighty okay salute by twenty three twenty four when this was found here %HESITATION yes and he's held back a year so he's a year behind so that's why he's in the same year as his younger sister yes so he's actually by nineteen of a crowbar it is kind of getting it Michael could be very slightly older than the other actors it seems transaction is there any fake way eva Marie unite during the storm kept thinking independently one minute she takes remote class wine Dr Beth does she looks after my computer stuff and see Susan Sarandon's daughter that's so exciting yeah that was me going is it the mouse I could do nothing when you know you cover that someone's face up and you guys what is it that looks like something is from familia it was everything all rights are pretty distinctive and she had done and what kind of files so the second of five girls smoking all the time and not enough perfect car running shorts a skirt and have a good hat rolled up shirt sleeves rolled up the big banks she married actress thank Sandra went to a Quaker middle school a Quaker is essentially one foot out the door yeah because I favor that skill is non theist or say yes as well because you have non theists crackers yes and so just one cost members beliefs that seem to indicate what the bowl pock beliefs of the people involved in writing directing acting in this film on which is well I'm sure that this is true in some sense but clearly we have to throw most about and that that one bit when Mary the main character having decided that she just doesn't do Christianity anymore decides what after not picking your religion picks Chris she's trying not to be pregnant although having an abortion %HESITATION yeah what's been bookmarking the not having an abortion part of this from because the crystal healing thing is just a virtually certain to be nonsense you know she drops the crystal just trying to use to make yourself not be pregnant and so Christianity quickly gets resurrected as pun intended to Christy gets resurrected as the default position as something that's the less ridiculous of the positions because at least interesting if you're trying to have a relationship with a person wears she's trying to have a relationship with crystals she tries and you know the one where you can resurrect something that seems nonsense is you can go well he's thirty four other things there are there any alternatives and then more nonsense go to pick the least known since of the only five alternatives %HESITATION pick them off yes right films in which nobody even discusses having an abortion as a film that was supposedly really critical of my own views about sex and gender still not even mentioning the possibility of Hainanese Wilson Planned Parenthood was visibly are here at least he goes to a clinic I mean I think she just gets up to confirm her pregnancy at least there are actually a real thing and there was that one moment when Roland and Cassandra this together sing together account for something in the house the St yeah %HESITATION come out from parenthood because in the system and Michael is only one reason why she could have gone there and goes what you mean pipe bomb it was really funny it was delivered so sharply and quickly that was reviewed off I'd I funny having a sympathetic character articulate that that's a credible fear but that shows you the mall protests saying fire fight the clinic yeah hustling a young woman he then change your mind they've got all those posters of you know with some life Terry and the others right %HESITATION structures of the fetus really exaggerated stuff like that to guilt people into turning back you know them all hurrying and like bang when they get somebody change your mind there's just something went into separate yet doesn't deal with the possibility that she kids gather all to go away by having an abortion for at least even talking straight you know she goes to the clinic but you don't see anything inside the clinic C. Carly Spencer CCM born Jesus of children Jesus loves him Terry you know and it's really emotionally charged me left me %HESITATION it's hurtful it's really damage and these protests going on right side abortion and family planning clinics are really really harmful this film sits in a sub genre of specifically teen pregnancy from Sierra not firms around the coming a month she know must've been around this time as well there may be a bit later than this but roughly yes this time later than us maybe to have a six or seven or something it was it was a late north sea's sector firms general breakaway hit on someone knocked up came afterwards two thousand seven right yeah because at least in Juneau Juneau does go and try to go to an abortion clinic and this changes the mind works is that that's right the norm is that in the majority of films characters no matter how critical they are as people's views about being pregnant a lot of critical error of ideologies of any kind they never even mention yeah thinking about getting an abortion with Mary here our new market actually conceiving married it's just not brute fact of her life she finds out that she's pregnant and she puts a black mark on a certain day in her diary which is now how do you do about that so even this phone which goes we're gonna criticize this this this and this common health attitudes amongst his Christian kids and the teachers even this film will not even mention the possibility of a main character having an abortion mentions abortion has been protesting against answer when they're in the kind of early even all state and so impressively goes there's something wrong here but then goes the thing that's wrong is not preventing women from having abortions it's something like I'm just being shouted at them this phone is becoming more and more apparent as being greedy pro Christian just in such a way as to appear to be overtly anti Christian so I'm I'm adding this to my module as a film but I suggest you can get the tear them too because it's great to discuss the issue of whether from that seems to take one stance might actually be taken out of that one just think about it by the team pack and I wanna trying come to the race some point because we're honest of the moments where the face frame of the Christian Djoos service funds name for Hilary Faye merry on what sailor maker's name I have forgotten everybody Sam I forgot everything except the name of the school and the second record for on the at the time yeah okay she's quite interesting because she's this third way you thought they go into their little found their little girl band fronted by Mandy Moore's character so of course she's a good one because she's quite popular pop singer at this time price it's not really my world but thank you can you know he said and so thorough naked thought right there quite early on in the file that shoes she them accepting her and her being one of them she is not a part of this little bond that they have called the Christian Jews to get laid up in a tiny bit of boxer she's a fairly superficial characters comes under a tiny back towards the end of the file %HESITATION there's just something about that she's been adopted from Vietnam by your parents who with %HESITATION doing mission missionary work and who are African American it looked like because no person who isn't white apart from this one person of Vietnamese origin yeah everybody else is background with no speaking roles she's the one person he isn't a white person he has some lines and she doesn't have very many lines one moment this is what he's meant to be what you see please Indian when he if he is at the problem and he's got the top notch thing now I don't even see that as Harold tied up he is literally just doing this from sweet summer racially diverse a couple of after American kids to school background sometimes there's nobody else to flying yes this is a yeah why are you white worlds very Arian but then this is based on buying Donnelly's chartered experiences you may have been a very white school and this is sitting near Baltimore but it was filmed in Vancouver yes as is the norm with interamerican after the fight right actually so even the music in there and just getting somebody like mom Diemer I keep changing our parent's name because my mom's maiden name this summer but most people would say Monday more say Monday more so I'm very confused about how to say her name nine the mobile Monday Mar yeah that's what you're saying visit okay fine then but if it's M. R. U. R. it's near right near yeah that's a resident there all different spellings of the same name it's true I I I'd leave you from when people didn't really have literacy that's why you have M. O. R. E. and W. R. E. and the I. R. they're all the same name yeah Monday Mar using using more modern we have an opening set into sixth man in my Anna might find different every time a serenade but yeah she was one of those pop starlets but I think probably quite clean one around the same time and she has Britney spears to say I don't know huge amount by terror because I was more of a cost grunge punk ash area person turned a deaf person well we clicked in spite of not having been to an American high schools we still click click some nonspecific American teen movies no but I think they're just very nice and the sting movies because you have to click you have the little girl great but they've got their took each and parks and he's basically just another white girl when merry transgressions and ends up leaving the folds because she's come a black sheep type percentages very quickly replaced by a character he has some trades quite regularly early on as a really annoying person but she clearly wants to be one of them she wants to be there French with something I'm with them all the time she wants to be one of them she's perfectly cost is having a great yeah she was very familiar to me as well hello T. is silent he wants the tiara okay the yes it's here he's another longer out there's a really interesting class divide that is not really a lesson they gone into by implicitly through this character tia is Hilary Faye and Roland seem to have come from a ferry money timely and Hilary Faye especially between the two of them gets so much of what she wants follow she's quite somewhere that she's had to get this vitamin type car so that she can Carter and her wheelchair using browser she makes him pretty dependent on her to do that and she gets that car instead of the really expensive selain type card that she really actually once she goes and gets a boutique makeover for prom she hired a limo to take her to the problem she's always wearing revealing clothes yes yeah lot of me yes sign quite orangey skin care on the other hand it's pointed out eight you rediscover her she unfolds quite late where she's working several jobs and they're just throw away it seems %HESITATION way but it's actually there's a lot of information there where we find out that she's saving up for a car of her own so she does not parents he would just give her a car by a car for her she has to work really hard janitor stop so she's somebody who's probably from a working class family and is trying to make goods and and pay for social mobility as she confronts the tiara and she gets it as she was not just that she's angry that she wants something and gets it I think the balik about that it seems she's working really hard she's working up the ranks so socially she's working up the ranks in many ways in terms of her social class but in terms of her click something as well the social class structure within the school doesn't unseating %HESITATION Ferris took a seat that goes on yeah definitely yeah it's been such a long time but please see this if you ever get a chance but I'm a cheerleader does this sort of thing as well where it's the creeks it's you the cheerleaders the footballers you got the alternative Kate's but they're the ones who are supposed to be a guy but I'm a cheerleader I am specific boyfriend I'm not supposed to be K. and household box off of that seems really stereotypical but seems to be a stereotype that's grounded in reality from anyone I know he's from the United States where they've had that kind of high school experience straight days people just a ripoff and they have an identity that belongs to a group of kids and you even give it a team name the Christian jewels they're a band but it's also it's it's near the creek nine and he he wants to be part of it hi we meet hello refi in the beginning and she's giving the other girls the pin badges that she's had me it's that say Christian Jew it's one of the first accent she does is to prompt them so it's it's very much in the team pack this coalition public moments in this film and run them Mary first puts on her little pain stops there yeah hi Christian Juul pen hurt Sir yeah you can have a parking does harm the others %HESITATION and it's as a production art while it's right over there our hearts and our chance with both symbolically because Christianity is harmful to her and also goes isn't she cries like he suffers as she swapped out so easily so the badges just a bronze gets pinned on he ever gets to earn a place in history for it just takes it off remarkably quickly for one of those quite intricate little pin badges when merry criticizes really quite an articulate because I was assuming she says a prayer meeting yeah it's an asteroids into that's it your honor she betrays their friendship and that's a very early indicator that she's going to be somebody who's on trust worth eight and will be right for herself more than anybody else but in the name of Jesus because American fights and her friend who she thinks is her friend about dean being gay her boyfriend being K. get service wire secrecy to be dissuaded by the S. because he wants to try and fix it you know he wants to try the conversion therapy he believes the pump plants that he's going to be carers and he wants to try but then have every faith decides to hold this very publicly advertised prayer meeting to get that Phichit tree are defenseman coding there it's not a word I would use yeah there's a specific words this one of the film's well over two hundred key words on the internet movie database and I want to point out that the internet movie database is populated into friendly two hundred forty two Q. it populated entirely by content put in there by people who are obsessed with seeing things similar to films so yeah it's got key words like mother daughter relationship school pasta virgin Z. but it also has key words like Manchester Mayo close up of RT's and the word that they use is seeking applications %HESITATION and in fact this year look up the other phone that has that as a key word on IMDb all right easier way in which the protagonist played by Emma stone doesn't have sex with anyone but she pretends that she handles right yes yes from one county tells people that she has two main male characters at the school which goes to want people to think that they're not get you in so they can go what this girl and I had sex and if she's telling her we had six of them for composting because it because I had sex with someone it's reputational decay for cash rather than actually verification what are in safe exclamation mark it's not even the guys occasion the film seems to say okay conversion therapy doesn't even exist these places it just places where gay Christians can just get to know each other stay behind their life partner speakers to mingle all right and one last thing which we have learned today is that general learn who plays married the main character and you have something in common he was born on the other side of the Atlantic no I feel kind what else is she even really know much about her our word right yes she I think was in some of the hunger games all right and entire page just about it's to her credit hello stand okay so she was really a ban in the two thousand five care not you pardon prejudice Cena she was in three of the four hundred games from jurors in Batman versus Superman cover long term job I'm saying that terrible circle punch of unfairness jurors jury lab tech in the service hello for Alan though VC mais I've seen some she's been in many things yes she does not have an same Shi was didn't even seem contact it's not terrible leave the pharmacy in the sense of not for the opportunity is there for a reason the neon demon and your mind one for the call I'm rushing Dr guy yes you have the same drive on drive that's not the same it's not the same yeah yeah okay exam next film for what promises don't make promises whatever your part because his pending upon kept promises for this podcast for a day we still haven't done Paddington Terry we still haven't done all too many that have been requested it's not like you know the kind of patients who will moan at you if no that's right if you don't do the things that we promise we're gonna do and some of these things that people returning give me money last four women don't scream restless Hey my up soon this is still three months correct Sir okay %HESITATION no more this is this is it all right when I was thirteen it would seem that this is generated interest of reverse humiliation sorry sorry otherwise known as human beings if you have any other observations on this just wonders if the attacks to go into the little summary of critical responses on the wikipedia page four saves mark Roger Ebert and I have noticed the film's covert politics writes exactly in lockstep with intervention father here five cross I'm in the city but it's a very physical position is still a bit of a fiction was he thinks there is of course an accurate account of the Jesus of the Bible because he's getting reinvented is quite heavy resistance this is your man Jesus Rajiv no this would have come back when Roger Ebert himself was writing everything attributed to rotary park rather than Roger Ebert dot com our system running today whatever I want them we also watched one of us %HESITATION last night that was so good it's a really great documentary if you get a chance to say it's on Netflix Heidi Ewing and Rachel Hey who also directed Jesus camp and it's just brutally honest really powerful really really powerful man I saw a bigger people hear it from the headset G. community and New York City and are at various stages of trying to leave for at least not be as orthodox anymore just trying to expose something like this just last fundamentalists divide and it was really clear that these people in some cases have no religious place anymore but in all cases are still culturally Jewish yeah it's okay do you like the music the rituals the food that's culture thing is still part of what we do and yet they're trying to do it having been evicted from the acidic New York community now I suppose the reason why we didn't do a recording of a discussion about that is because that recording would have just been of us sitting clutching on these two artists rock %HESITATION I just settling out the just wanted to cut them sure enough I'm either people he has attempted to take care of my needs there was a woman who is getting her seven children torn away from her and this is a woman who was only thirty two years old and have seven children because she'd been married off at eighteen and then forced to have sex with an abusive husbands all three of them were being told by the people who they really cared about that the problem was with them it was we do want to be part of this group anymore the must be something wrong with you they were all taught that in various different ways in some cases really aggressively so will not discuss that one other than to go watch it and then have a lie down it is really well made it's very sensitive emails there's no over massive comments really it's just these individuals are damaged hello the young guy specially ari he separate seventeen when they start filming and he's nineteen by the end of it they seem different something over to the three year period and he seems just such a lovely sweet boy he just opens up more and more and he's trying to come to terms the fact that he was raped as a child by one of the instructors so a rabbi at a com guess either denial or well you message deserve to try flying C. no one no one's ever held to account for things like that you know they're these things that maybe don't overtly criticize a specific religion or specific people in a religious practice but there one set you watching you make your mind up and you say well on a human level why are we tolerating the city says why are we allowing them to be masked over it feels quite frustrating we can't engage with us because at Brzesko offending people will I find it really offensive set people rich children and that these women have really brought the essence it's been a pleasure right yeah thank you very much what we what Sadeq C. resembles what it was but it well I enjoyed it more and I thought it was going to the craziness windows in the days of the law to heads of violence and that's how he said thanks bye he is staying to utility of Asian cultures with me Paula Blair and Andrew she'll this episode was recorded and edited by Paul the player and the music is coming grind by error to use under a three point zero non commercial creative Commons license episodes released every other Wednesday already releases when availability Petri on members I'm also very grateful for donations to deliver a pay dot com forward slash P. E. AP there to support my writing as well as making the podcast be part of the conversation with Haiti cultures on Facebook and Twitter and Davey cultures pod on Instagram wash your hands stay home if you can and B. accent to yourselves and each other thanks so much for listening caption next time
Audiovisual Cultures episode 56 – Creative Practices with Zhenia Mahdi-Nau automated transcript
hello and welcome to the official cultures the podcast that explores arts and culture production I'm polo player and I'm delighted to be joined this time by artist Shane yet mighty now pay very kindly shares her experiences and marking across various art forms including documentary and short Film and Northern Ireland very warm thanks to our members on Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your continued support for other ways to help fund the podcast and to keep up with our goings on listen to the end for details and to enjoy this really fascinating chapter wishing them yeah the T. L. S. C. R. my name is Shannon it's just it really well I think I've heard all kinds of variations of my name and I just smiled my feeling is Genya Masti now says Jenny is that Russian name my mom was born in Mexico and Shinya which incidentally means genius yes although you know they knew the things he left is my parents in my maiden name and now it's a German name because I was married to somebody was from Luxembourg so I kept it on because my son and so this Russian passion I was born in Iran and abroad happening and just go there and my first notice studies and so we've got that set here as well just in case we get your doggy noises yes test says my god my border collie my sweet friend me go and solution yet good trying to scare your kids year filmmaker and artist and educator mmhm all sorts of things a lot of yeah and things I mean I suppose if I'm looking back at the stuff that I've done is very difficult to just pinpoint one pass the thread in them has been creative in some way yes I have been quite involved in training and teaching and developing some educational resources that were created and have doubled into filmmaking and that's how we met but drawing and painting it has always been a part of it as well then some singing because %HESITATION get on to that yeah yeah and dances while it's very important he is dancing with some U. S. towns is important not because you know it in my head %HESITATION it on to my body not quite yes when I close my eyes I'm capable of doing all kinds of a %HESITATION it said %HESITATION so it's yeah I've had a fascination with dons and movement and how the body I just find the bodies almost like a metaphor for something higher consciousness of something very peaceful and innate in us rather than just a physical thing so I love the metaphors that happened between movement and emotional states and from a very long time ago I tried to draw it and captures in some way and the idea of movement and something very ethereal the happened situational and again more recently I'm trying to see whether I can stocked protective some sort as we can thank and then with talking about tapestry of color issue document chase that is highly Mets fills like a life ago my other ex and probably one of your other lights is one of the things so yeah it was two thousand and twelve that summer of two thousand twelve that I I was editing tapestry and its screen the fast time in September of two thousand twelve and I think it wasn't long after that that we met I mean that was a mammoth project me because before that I made a short film and I've worked with editing and training people in editing I used to work with in the nav centre in Belfast and that's where I began to learn more about editing and filmmaking tapestry was the first time that actually really I managed to get some funding which would never cover many like that you want to do but it really was a labor of love and something that was of real interest to me but a subject that was just exploring how coaches %HESITATION arriving in Northern Ireland and how there is a sense of integration I wasn't I wasn't looking for the conflict areas I was looking at integration areas and see whether could be human stories or other facts and figures it was great I think when we met at mystery that you script button key F. T. so it felt really appropriate actually that it was say that younger generations who were born after the official end of complex here and it was feeling at the time I'm not sure but now if it is feeding at the time I can you Northern Ireland I feel like I straddled in UAE and then I don't live here anymore so I think so much of the film is so much to do with identity and all the intricacies of identity so it was really important especially growing up in such a very white yes yeah and it's great to see so much diversity here knowledge but I just didn't experience up when I was younger even the film educated me on how much diversity there was because I didn't know there were only two communities everywhere else so that was really important that yes just important for the community scare quotes and Northern Ireland to realize they're not the only community health not least but those Terry and there are more to what's going on here than sectarian divisions and there's more to overcome them just sectarian division one of the things that I found was there is I think an underlying belief that people if you come from a certain area then you're likely to share the same thoughts and beliefs and ideas and a pretty much you know you with that bunch and here's this bunch just like you know here in Northern Ireland here are the Catholics and hear the Protestants and hear the loyalists and hear the nationally as well as reality is that these are just names and labels that we give to human beings I've never felt comfortable with the idea of groups being given an identity that bypasses the individuality of the people that are within that group and I think that is something that I've found over and over again I found I've come across it again and it came with all kinds of backgrounds and cultures it is and you need to know the nine it's something that happens everywhere and I think partly because people feel comfortable with them and not everybody wants to particularly feel an individual within a group and I do so I'm particularly conscious of that and sensitive to that but also partly because it's an easier way to address a whole group of people instead of thinking about their individuality is a lazy way to address humanity of someone and I came across that over and over again where people would buy that I mean tapestry of colors there are some uncomfortable conversations it was very difficult to get those uncomfortable conversations because people don't always want to say what they feel and it was an interesting thing to find somebody who was able to do that was and she saw nothing wrong with that which was great for me get it on record it and she was very happy for that and I think for her it was having a police %HESITATION which was good but in a sense I thought it was quite naive as well too and she assumed that this is okay you know that this will be for thieves generally okay all kinds of dynamics were going on but what I found was most fascinating is always to find prejudice Waveney suspected and find open heartedness where you least expected that's the P. two things I think that's well and I did find that over and over again where you live so really it's like from the background that this person comes from educationally socially culturally they probably are going to have a lot of views that would be probably negative about having all kinds of cultures and then I was so nicely surprised that wasn't the case and then the person who did find you know said things that you know they come here and take our jobs and that kind of stuff was from somebody who had lived quite a number of proteins this process today yes yes and but the reality was that it so if you need to explore that was somebody who was in the questioning close area it was fascinating is really fascinating but because my eyes lit up and I so unusual things happen come Roger using paper you wouldn't expect that somebody was Irish and I travel the abuse of for the they just complimented each other and and that's where you you really see that humanity has none of this them and us there is justice yeah which is really peaceful to see yeah essentially as well because there's a guy from a loyalist marching bands the orange marches and that sort of thing so this better coverage of that as well and what he says is quite fascinating and not as this is our cultural display and if you believe those same things we don't care what you look like you're one of us but anybody is welcome to come and see us and that sort of thing so that was quite interesting the here and I don't know hi people favor but that was then and and I weigh stops but I have to say when when I was filming that part it was very pops where it was it didn't particularly feel welcoming yeah %HESITATION I stood out like a sore thumb and I didn't mind you always been outside is it doesn't really matter and that particular conversation will gain very clearly was there was two sides to that story and that was at the edges were very shop on both sides on the one hand you say you know I mean anyone is welcome but why did you do and say as I say and do yeah everything when the weather isn't filled with people who all believe the same thing the whole point is that we attack us we have different experiences and they're full welcome cannot be just to those who are exactly like me because then it's not welcome welcome means an open door that allows people to be who they all provided they don't actually home use it's an interesting thing to watch people's perceptions of what he would issue an old granny who believed to be the same thing in a welcome Indians come in welcome but actually no it doesn't only if a B. and C. you meet these criteria then you're welcome so then you know that calm so that was interesting yeah yeah I have other friends who are artists who found that orange marches and here also when men and there may be actually from Protestant unionist communities but they're still outsiders because they're maybe from a different place in North India and then there filming them in Belfast or whatever it happens to be it can be so tight now than anybody's website cider can take a long long time to earn trust there were areas I wanted to film and not just about people who are native to the nine yeah like that it took me a long time to find anybody from the travelling community and I was very lucky that I was able to find somebody and he just musically exemplified what it means to you know integrate with people and that's always the case but %HESITATION so from the Roma community digested managed to let her try hello I couldn't get that it's a very close knit close community there was a loss of knocking on doors the students you know obviously a huge part of any filmmaking in sixteen minutes of kementari is to research that you're doing in trying to to find the possibility to fell possibly because I'm neither here nor there I'm not the concert no Protestant I'm not from me %HESITATION simply that made it more comfortable for people just just because I was not a threat but I did in one instance I found that really bizarre because one of the people who always saying you know they come here and take a job the person who lived there for many years abroad she spoke to me in such confidence that I should have you obviously part of my job is you know because I am welcoming you know I want to hear and I don't want to say no and this and you content there will obviously will be things that I feel no this is not part of what I want to do but you know that was that I wanted to have a story I found it so intriguing to tend to me somebody who clearly doesn't sound okay perhaps I don't sound like the typical immigrant who has recently come here but I don't look at northern Irish I definitely don't look like you know even though it may sound boring which I didn't you can see it you know my background must be from an immigrant you know and as it happens is from a refugee kind of background and yet to speak to me so we speak the same language you know they come here and take her to the so so often my thoughts as to speaking I am one of the people you do not see that I'm in that in itself is a bit of a dichotomy because you kind of thing this individual office he has humanity you know who feels that can connect with you did we %HESITATION you know from whatever background to whatever stories we have we come to the perceptions of me come to arrive at the printing plate that social conditioning can only really be that sort of thing that I reckon that produces the sorts of attitudes or I would say S. lack of logic and a way to do that for me was a logical to say on this issue with me but then in another part of the film someone speaks about his children being color blind and not seeing difference between paper but the reality is there are differences and you need to address those differences so that people are not under privileged because of that difference for that reason alone but that the children growing up at the time that was two thousand and twelve when I was filming he was saying that his children are lucky to be in that sense they say that color blind they don't see a difference and I suppose what I'm thinking of the lady that was talking to me and saying you know they come here and take a job do you see what I mean you know that intimate conversation with me in a way she was being colorblind yeah because maybe she saw U. S. British because of your accent and maybe that maybe an inverted form of oxytocin or maybe it's paperless from a foreign accent yeah Hey or that you know a culture that we cultures all different people's practices and lives a very different and they don't sit comfortably always with each other you know so and that's a reality it's not comfortable so I can understand what so what if it was really really uncomfortable and you have families that settled into a community whose ways and practices you so unfamiliar with and you just don't understand and it's hard on both sides I think it really is you know to find a way is that and it takes time but I think more than anything what helps is actually to be open to kind of meet each other somewhere along the way it works both sides you can only really chat with somebody about this issue said very able to safely talk about them and that the country a light that space for somebody in a very safe for the voices concerns because I think part of the problem arrange for stellar nearly three years and no over three years and trying to do this brexit style yeah and so much anxiety right now has been people not feeling like they're a law eat to talk about how to fail so maybe it's something like that and I wonder if it's for me not for me to try and psychology ISIS person but I wonder if there is an anxiety about having being away and then coming back possibly and maybe that was something this person was working straight but I don't really have a tough day for him you know everyone has a story yeah Hey those screenings that I went to people I didn't know would come and say you know they're very nice but the felt when they were saying because you know I was in your country and and they would tell me the stuff that they've done in the food to the taste and all this stuff as though I'm still there and I'm here to visit to say listen you know as a child when I was living in Iran my parents didn't come from you know what our families they worked really hard my father came from poverty so by the time I'd come along and I was an afterthought thanks with five children I was the fifth and %HESITATION my oldest brother was almost seventeen years older than me so I really wasn't meant to be there but by that stage life had become a lot more comfortable for them because my family %HESITATION hi and I'm at the high as well and the highs have been persecuted hugely in Iranian culture right from the start of the the high fifties and incidently Bahai teachings are about one this of humanity and you don't get involved in party politics and it's really humanitarian kind of religion that really is about uniting the saying there was this one in human beings as one but these teachings are very threatening for governments and institutions in places where you really people %HESITATION have to blindly follow and be told what to do so it's a whole history of persecution and executions when I was growing up none of that was that that I could see but I was quite protected I think but there were undercurrents of it always when the Iranian revolution happened things turned upside down by that stage we'd already been living in England I had no history no concept of that I just had it from my parents my father has gone into it every time and then he went back to Iran two the only means of %HESITATION you know financial support was his pension and he'd managed to finish paying the mortgage for the house and hands of the tendency was providing our living costs and the tenants stop paying so my father went back to see what was happening it was at the stage when life was becoming very difficult for bodies they introduce columns that if you want to leave the country you have to say what religion you %HESITATION and of course my father couldn't put anything other than getting behind and he knew that that could be very very dangerous so ended up instead of a couple of months which was the intention to be that to be there for four years any escape through the mountains of Turkey meanwhile through the years the house was confiscated so does all the belongings I sold his pension was stopped and there was nothing so we will have to become refugees as a result so this is kind of the stories of very real although I have to say I never experienced the hardships on refugees I was too young so I was protected from all sorts and I've had things I know my father and my mother and I had only recently from cousins who had known my dad and had said that the reason he left was his name would come up on the list and he was going to be executed and his crime was that he was helping the highs who everything everything belonging had been taken so he was assisting with taking contributions from others to help them survive that was his crime there's all sorts of stories about the refugees I developed a very British kind of identity my friend's role in missions I went to school in England and and and at the time I was the whole idea of being Iranian wasn't it felt very uncomfortable for me because I wanted to integrate into this new than a teenager and it's ME later really that it began to dawn on me that the difficulties of refugees go through I suppose I felt when I was speaking to people who are coming from a different background like the okay the difficulties that they experience arriving not speaking the language and not knowing anything something the shops and arriving in years and how difficult it must be for them it's having by that stage had so many of the stories that was familiar from family yeah the film had all kinds of meaning for me as well as opening it up for compensation yeah I was thinking as well by and I do have that sense of home a talking it by your own background as well yeah initially the moving part in the film where I think it's a lot fan woman talks about aids just hearing other people speak about fan and she wants to go over soon because she suddenly felt ready home sick yeah and just one at that topspin's said something she felt she had to leave hi end but they didn't want to know because they just ashamed she would want their help yeah I just find that really so how does he have and the the reality is that existing laws and you can kind of understand both sides but ruled the sight of the person who's just arrived and it's so difficult so so unfamiliar and now I mean I have quite a few friends are from different backgrounds and left fans as well it's lovely to see how integrated they are and but it's the long journey for many people and I think a conference at home enough the fact that people arrive not necessarily as their first choice but that because they have to and what would you do if you have family or child and you want to give them hope home K. as a set of high and I and the fellow with the S. S. but one country and mankind is its citizens it's a quote from the homeless writings because really these quotas a man made board really there is only one hello the building is anyone S. we live in and how peaceful if we could actually see each other is going to be able to travel and be what we need to be instead of thinking on this but it is mine because ultimately that's a game from the high rises ultimately or what you're fighting for is the basic ground that you can be buried in you don't take it with you it's not you know so why it seems really bizarre to think of it as this is mine the whole nationalistic kind of approach that is exist very much these days you know current inclusion in U. K. you can see that it's a very worrying thing that's happening globally it's a place but we have to hope I think that's what but the title of the film the tapestry idea that so beautiful because well what's the topic street soul it's a different threads woven together and they have to work together to be a long thing even the %HESITATION the image for the marketing image in the DVD admits the cover of it S. all the different flags via recreate melded together anyway and the shape of Northern Ireland but there's almost a cage and to the Republic as well because this is another arbitrary ordered which is night contestants again a gay yeah yeah yeah the idea of the tapestry thing was because I was trying to make it into and using my visual imagery into digital imagery skills to kind of make that looked like a tapestry and woven thing and then the reality is that we are all threats of the Saint there is no no real difference and really it's just it seems hope is all but interestingly when you talk about the flags because obviously I was really castle to make sure everyone knows there all morning and to all the people who contributed in the film the flag of that country is in and it was so conscious that particularly aware of the situation in the Irish and the British flag and the hand of Ulster and all this kind of business school featuring but there was one of the screen is because what I had to preview it set everything into those old kinds of invited audience VIP's and things it was wonderful and then from that stemmed quite a lot of screenings I was really working with councils and that good relations offices to see that if they could invite paper that had something to say in their communities so that they'll be a panel discussion after the film city people don't come and sit and see it and then go and those are really interesting and I'm obviously I was on the panel but I want to make sure local people and but that really interesting most places amazing conversations happened but in one particular place which was to remain nameless somebody at she will travel to right the stock because the Irish flag looked a bit smaller than the British just so wow that's so interesting to it's just yeah that was very interesting conversations on the phone then what sprung from the film was there's lots of people wanted to use it as an educational kind of tool but it's too long first there was a lot of what shops that I was doing councils with Janet and I edited the film into so small extracts somatic stress that we could have so what ships in conversations about each of those what they mean and how that the following year was able to get some funding to an educational resources but that really I worked with within the sofa Sierra which is the curriculum yeah exam board one of the people there and I simply wanted to make sure to %HESITATION ticked all the boxes for teachers so that they could teach and we had a plan that went to a number of schools and youth groups and it was really really interesting very positive about comes out of those and just it was impossible to continue it as an online business because costs involved and because we couldn't get the funding that schools couldn't raise the funding to be able to have the truth I mean as a project is a holistic project I think the film then led to other conversations I felt what's really well there was a lot of conversations I had with politicians %HESITATION results of it which were also very interesting took me a whole new area an Avenue of professional web that really as an artist is not my thing although I'm quite confident and I'm quite happy to present and talk about things but then I just felt it's taking me further and further away from the office in the Clinton yeah I mean I thought I don't know if that's something that just naturally came to a conclusion or if the climate of things for the past few years has actually acted as well because not only a set of cracks initiated by the fact that there's been no local government here for three years so let us come to a standstill ready with arts funding in general was funding has been cut huge anyway but I think with the work that I was doing I think it came to a point when %HESITATION I found I just was hitting my head against a brick wall speaking and really the number of fantastic conversations presentations to various VIP's and heads of this and that and the other one they're all wonderful but really what I found what I'm trying to do is having more funding to do further for the walk and it seems like as you say it came to a point where they need to to stop because I ate the amount of time and energy that I was putting into that which was not in any way rewarding not just financially but creatively it wasn't recording anyway related to it so do some work that was I suppose that experience helped in the rest of the work that I was doing as well I did some creative consultations for the arts council when the for some of the cities and towns over doing building peace through the arts time out they want to have and those things and some of the other projects that it is on the phone network that I did was I'm sure at the back of tapestry helped along with those but I think yeah I think it's come to a point where I feel now my passion these go back to what we touches my home matches all persons like interpretive color she's quite a bit of your own vocals and there is that something you'd like to like basis you're singing in your vocalisation where yeah I mean the singing I I was in a bind some years ago cool trespass and we reckon melodies and stuff I was doing and but at the time fast I was using a lot of the Bahai writings because they so views from poetic and then I was writing the lyrics and stuff but the film and documentary kind of sound tracks that I have done some work on this a few things like caramel is pump go George image to some music for the soundtrack of the style of kind of work that I've done a gain on tapestry can seat as well the tapestry actually the focus for that initially was for a a more for channel documentary called monkey left by double bond and it was about Harry hello who's a psychologist who did some GPS workers %HESITATION baby monkeys in the fifty cents at the head of a document checks I was approached by a friend of mine who is doing the soundtrack for it and it has my kind of rule never cool stuff so it began kind of vocal recordings that were very much non verbal but it was much more about and %HESITATION see failing and the undertones of eastern sound and a lot of that I suppose comes from when I was a child I remember my father used to he had a beautiful voice he's the same he's a chance behind cries he had a voice like a medically backed just beautiful so I guess that means the committee here is a one of the recordings that ended up again on tapestry and the more recent years I did some work for graduate failed from his film engines caught his so I went to ten men to watch with Toby marks A. K. A. I'm good to go yeah so we recorded some record claims that he actually had Lisa Gerrard and she then had pulled out and he was looking for somebody who did that kind of thing and again my friend who had done the stuff for the double bind home and told him about me so I'd sentence and stuff and like to talk to about I think that was a very beautiful creative hope felt experience because I just awesome to put on some records leave the room let me improvise that Saturday's game about and there were a couple of those tracks featured on the Apollo which is under the guise comeback album I felt very happy I'm very happy with those creative efforts that sounds like a great way of collaborating he's just awesome to trusting yeah yeah that kind of singing is very much a singing your hall yes %HESITATION this thing so it's not a you know press a button here comes it has to be an he knew that I guess that's why he asked me to do it because it's the other stuff that I've done we had to just try it and it seemed to work and he was happy with it but each of those are very much associated with a particularly poignant emotional experience I was having at the time so I know I have to tap into that and really sing for that seem to work they're really haunting and they're very beautiful to listen to their C. eastern offense but there is something and there is it just made me think of an Irish connection as well because there's the caning that's done by women %HESITATION speaking robotics in Ireland and that sis cry from within when you come to cry and to expand access sign that comes from within and that's something between crying and singing and wailing it's quite an incredible thing to behold and it reminded me of that as well actually this thing too because it does feel like it's from the heart there is something distinctive because it does actually signed the life force so much music in this process voices and processes and I'm gonna put some links up on our oceans because there it was ready I see somebody told me that originally there are links between the Celts the patient's rights whether that's true or not but maybe intrinsically interesting thing that I have done quite a bit of research in the past few years on the engine borrowed since trying to see what's Mexico and what's not and I think historians for a couple of hundred years at least there were making everything very separate and actually there's a lot of revisionist research going on saying no there is a lot of evidence that everybody was more doing talks in yellow and purple to believe so that they can surprise me isn't it a symbolic thing the fact that we have she will hello by colonial civilizing missions making people author when actually people are coming together in trading and there are areas that weren't so much colonial about say a Greek tried bridge go to one place and he checked the Alexandria error nearby and they would have a joint community they would actually have a %HESITATION hello Jepsen community that was shared in their chair daisy something that would be amazing yes okay and I it wouldn't surprise me as opposed to an Irish poet tone please I don't know I hope it's true it sounds nice yeah things like there would be an affinity I think you have to see it yeah because it it's it's a bit of a lemon to submit business unless them often sing into my son the yes because he's into twice yeah with my hot would you like to talk about it from a few years ago some of the projects you were commissioned to do the arts kind so some of the short films so if years ago there was a project that I did that consisted of five phones and it was full I think she's still exists and there's a few communities in north Belfast and it's cool to draw down the walls of for that particular year in two thousand fifteen the commission five short films working with five groups of people it was about invisible barriers and exploring that I love actually working with people and finding very kind of unusual creative ways to bring out draw out stories from people and it was really nice because there was a couple of groups that way in that location code there was one group in the auto and area and there is one group that while unemployed people and there was another group that was just young people who wanted to make films this is a variety of kind of experiences and to explore the sense of otherness and belonging and not belonging in I had some really fascinating stories particularly I think what moved me was the location code downs and it's somewhat with the younger people but it was a low Chanchal adults that I found really fascinating a lot of them laughed telling me the stories of people being imprisoned and really hard lives lots of suicides and the difficulties of the young people and the people who've been in previous times involved in paramilitary groups and and how that communities affected by it and yet I have to say it was one of the loveliest kindest group of people I met there was so genuinely very welcoming that was a real eye opener for me difficult difficult areas to live and so those five phones within shown as part of a mini festival that happened the first Film Festival was hosting them so that happened in a number of areas and then for months that we showed it to the city hall and then the publication was based on it was pretty stunned than it did during the kind of thing around so it was an interesting very difficult project I have to say %HESITATION difficult project of really interesting but I did meet some really peaceful people an offensive game breaks all your preconceptions which is really nice pretty nice yeah we can actually be something that site yeah the room of the muse convicting me pages was he could see those really interesting exploring what really all that means and just breaking those barriers which we all have I found the ones that were really responsive to my very wacky Pacelle everyday I've come up with some strange way of exploring things with the young people that you met at the golden thread gallery because it was just a friend it was great it was or you can't so yeah it was so many parts of that and I really felt was a very worthwhile really positive protect which took away their residency with room three yeah so this is what really is My Baby no so for quite awhile I had this idea that I wanted to explore it came Johnson movement through the lens and finding ways to really there is a distance between the performer and the audience this online and I think I have experienced it when I'm being at a performance that when I'm so mesmerized him so invest in what I'm seeing experiencing that I'm becoming opponent if you know what I mean because it's so beautifully done there are a few things that I've been to always contemporary it's the most beautiful will be WrestleMania fans of tonight all so I just my heart just isn't wrenched it just being not even an observer and Paul if that becomes that as I'm watching it and become the performance even though I'm not a forma so I really want to explore that place where you go beyond this world it's an otherwise it's an otherworldly experience it's a higher consciousness it's spiritual it's a different round of fascinated to resign moments in that and I wanted to explore that through movement and dance and I was lucky enough to meet and photograph the peaceful Tomlinson was partially sighted cone head on whole beautiful movement beautiful polity and so I wanted to work around that so I had applied for residency sometime before and so I was able to do it at that time so I went to Tyrone Guthrie now imagine this you know this is in June of two thousand eighteen when the summer was amazing %HESITATION for anybody who hasn't been there it's really peaceful grounds or green and there's a lake and the sun beaming every day and I had to cut its to with them and I had a studio to myself I took everything and I want to animate so I was able to animate the movements and %HESITATION and the idea really is it's a bit of a dream for me to have an installation performance kind thing based on this this is right but the start of a project so I was able to really get started into that and produce a kind of work and sounds and things that I felt great he would work with it it was just a dream of a time that for me I just was amassed into that really was so peaceful and the paper was so lovely and met some really wonderful artists as well I'm so fascinated also by the academic side of things well academia matches with creativity lots of useful said I really like to see if I can take this off into its own proper research a PhD yeah but a practice based PhD where I can put you sweat but really look at the kind of the intellectual side I did as well but pretty touch around that is for me is so fascinating we'll see I've written a proposal what let's see if I would go anyway yes yeah yeah if it's meant to be well hopefully it's finding the right place two days yeah yeah yeah the tricky part yeah I mean if I die I live in Northern Ireland now and one of the things they did to us last year was to build up the studio space so I don't plan to be moving anytime soon so if I can do it through here university okay great or if I was able to do it somewhere else but I can actually continue to stay here and yes so we'll see unexplored possibilities and see what happens so as well as the PhD idea but you were saying that you go really into your painting yeah I've started to get because the whole idea here is her ago three was that I begin to bring in all elements of the things that are tied up into my creative practice soak painting was I mean I exhibited in a few different places before and I hadn't been painting for awhile and the figure always feature is not portraits but again movement and %HESITATION limbs and bodies and sick and starting to see if I can reconnect with painting and games it's a slow process but I saw to it that someone you know %HESITATION after painting the game on the go so we'll see yeah I just think it's you know with creativity it's for me it hasn't been a career it's a vocation in life although thankfully it's and to me it's tough to be able to live off off and on and off but generally it's not something that you then stop it needs to be something that I see is at the core of what to do and again the idea of creative practice %HESITATION and the creative impulse being a border this thing as well here a long time ago I remember speaking to somebody about being an artist and at the time I haven't painted anything and he was about you you know painting I remember thinking I felt very annoyed H. and thinking but your analysis is a part of who you are is woven into it it's not when you paint that threw it off this is not what you write it's just do you own and I think it's an even in everyday conversation it's just being looking at things in a different way in a creative way for hearing things in a different way so he went to the direct anybody to find out a bit more about what you do or say some of your work you can see some of my work on my website said M. and creative studio dot co dot UK and so my fellow work are on them like a music channel but also my email is there you can contact me I'm always open full interesting ideas and particularly when different all forms much that's what I find most fascinating weather is music and sound in towns and painted animation he knew just where it goes yeah and it's a like minded souls that kind of connection I love the idea of that so yeah I'm always open to that but it's it's and yet thank you so much to come thank you enough %HESITATION thank you and I am in love with your dog yes and creatively training a dog that's another thing to do she knew sought some tricks you know %HESITATION yeah okay did you couldn't see the trees in %HESITATION do you think but I will show you she's a sweet but it's thank you very much remembering up thanks to OD official cultures with very special guests Genya muddy now and tests at the dog this episode was presented recorded edited and produced by polar bear the music is common grind by our tone licensed under a creative Commons noncommercial license and is available for download from CC mixer dot org episodes are released every other Wednesday please wait share and subscribe on your chosen nesting platform to help others find the show to help cover costs of making and distributing the podcast please consider making a regular donation via libera pay dot com forward slash PP a planner or one of two nations to pay pal dot me forward slash P. A. Blair just a pint or whatever you can spare is a really massive help follow AP cultures part on Instagram and AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook to keep up with what we're doing thanks so much for that catch you next time
Audiovisual Cultures episode 29 – The Miseducation of Cameron Post automated transcript
This is Audiovisual Cultures, the podcast examining different aspects of sound and image-based cultural production and their broader contexts and potential impact. I'm the host and creator Paula Blair. This week Andrew Shail and I have a post-screening discussion of The Miseducation of Cameron Post and issues around religious gay conversion therapies and women and marginalized groups working in the film industry. If you would like to be part of the conversation, I'll be back at the end with contact details and ways you can support the podcast and building up the website. For now, enjoy the discussion. <AS> So Dr Blair, apparently, you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. <PB> If you're a man. What about women, what should they do? <AS> They should be lain with. we should be dealing with there's a list of about whether if you're right outside of town you don't get put to death if you raped inside a tiny but in a nothing specifically about same sex marriage with the ladies so what if we just watched this seeing the Miseducation of Cameron post I felt quite an emotional time what's not such a well made film beautifully made really solidly written array pox upon us I thought it's got quite a lot of joy and then I made it quite difficult things going on I feel like probably not care enough to really do it justice at the moment but let's see how I would go on I think before we start off the floor what state I was feeling like it might be a bit more of the Sirius version of but I'm a cheerleader which is a film that came by in nineteen ninety nine and Miseducation of Cameron post was made in the past couple of years released in twenty eighteen sacks in nineteen ninety three so there's a lot of political stuff going on that will need to get into later afternoons just before we get into this and I think but I'm a teenage readers Watson directed by Jimmy Buffett it's more of a comedy where the main character Magen is seventeen she's a cheerleader she goes to prom she has a boyfriend she's the perfect lawns beautiful the ideal home coming queen Arshi supposed debate that's why everybody's trying to gather up to eight Bucks her parents suspects but she's a lesbian and she's never really thought about this before she has a boyfriend she's cheerleaders just on all the right things and scare quotes but our parents just suspected she's not quite early enough but she's performing on these things so they sent her to the account I'm trying to remember it's been a while since I've seen it when I read up again but it seems to be more a psychological thing I can't remember if it was religious or not so we might need to track that but she gets sent to a camp that similar to the kind of conflict somewhere in that sense okay get the gay artist her I'm not when she realizes she actually is gay and she falls in love with one of the other girls fire we've been in these situations that's find out if the director or music had seen a Serbian film but you can have three makes a very felt because this is a situation where the two phone calls the other is both it's going to be something on anyway which is an idea that seems to be sort of a gay conversion automatically going to fail because we do need to get a little same sex attraction together same sex environments tend to warm relations we'll show you okay then put in a regime of night time inspections which involves running for state but that of course conference and extends to address the violence of course they end up bonding over I think it's a sign of the times probably thought that was quite right to be done and but I'm a cheerleader and it was sort of just you know quite like way of saying some people are different and it's a really fun premise requires Watson and there is the need to file isn't it she said person that Megan Megan Natasha Leone I'm not sure if it's not right K. D. balance when she falls for and they get together and stuff she is quite apart from this has come from very different backgrounds I think Americans so it's not kind of actually fights mostly comedy to see quite a nineteen per month and that's it the answer today is a situation where as with the Miseducation of Cameron post have a good time and one of the main differences is that she has fallen for a short while to love to see me come into it because you know what it is to teenagers on the hormones are going nuts hi all I can think of a sex so she and her best friends start having a sexual relationship they both have boyfriends and I have to go to prom with seven they don't really seem to you don't get the impression and the scenes where they're together that there's anything they didn't already discussed that that's just happening and it's consensual and they're enjoying it and they take any opportunity to count explore each other expressing they fail and they don't really seem to think of themselves as gay they don't really seem to have got to place further exploring what that means they're just enjoying being together and it feels very natural and then of course there discovered and made to feel unnatural and there's quite a big fall light from the common consensus god's promise by her she's brought up by her because her parents died when she was young the family's very religious man her best friend estimate she goes to Bible camp where they're already big differences are rather her arching religious connotation and I think one of the main points that the film is making is that the people running the town house all the best intentions I really believe that they're helping people and I think that's the scariest band that comes up action Feldman I wasn't expecting that status but one of the parts of it it's going along fairly properly and then comments trying to just yes but then one of the other inmates one of the disciples as they call in but really there and man most of my life for that choice and by the time line I'm not light safe and mark he thought it was too many while but his father has rejected him he says you're still too feminine I come top on my hiatus he has a break time tries to castrate themselves well it's well it's not rare but when they talk he took his penis I thought this possibility so I want to make it possible castration another one might be that well he just wants to yeah he doesn't have any control and possibly talk the simple basic as a sexual organ incredibly well done how to tie it all right it's actually more three hi the other disciples hi it affects them and the different ways that they react to this I don't really see much of them this happens and it's the follow up on them precipitating event says that breaks the yeah yeah during the event because we it's made clear that the marginal closing and that means that the agents of the inmates great sign before he does it doesn't moment when mark is shown yeah which highlights a construction site today it's not it's not a conviction is actually a complex in several different ways and one of them is that it just says black is white says when I am weak I am strong it's just a way of saying exactly and I think the struggle and his face down on the ground showing how strong is pressed and then what's the name dear all the stuff next one for twenty my foot when you come down that's the action of a slave another slave interactions and she has a shaving the man's head and strong Harris gorgeous long acting he's residing up secure first because his father says that what he has is a weakness anything my weaknesses my strengths it's great and powerful C. and it was quite a lot of cross cutting back and forth in time between a group therapy session playing night and Cameron waking up having heard noises commotion on the car going off and are going to see what was going on and discovering about all over the bathroom alone in my house for the past ten days and was gone for a week okay I'll wait Thursday this Thursday ten reasons why this is that we live together I thought that was obvious okay so you've been gallivanting we can turn the needed to be in Spain when you're alone in the house any noise my goodness you start thinking yeah and when you wake up and you just heard a big noise there's the simplest conjecture because the big news just had money in the eight weeks in a row out of the big things happening in particular is there was this thing happened last year where some people basically back to the house because it was only after about ten seconds of ever look up I'm definitely empathize with Cameron you have to get up but I know we just heard yup that was the last known large sense of reserve something but so we have a disintegration is when it becomes apparent before it becomes apparent but it's not unless the kids do seem to be just rolling with it yeah teenagers what is going on is what parents do to assist I don't go to those to us we can find I would not be physically abused while yes and we do occasionally do things like karaoke and going out to musical concerts will be can affect the enjoyment of listening to music and and some do even seem to benefit from the group so it is not safe that's fine that's fine but then the moment where I suddenly becoming anymore this is actually it came late in the film there was a moment that was going on with them yeah but that's how it works because it's a slow dripping tap justice so chipping away at something and then there's this tipping point where you know that actually this is unacceptable it's a beach and calling it an investigator has to come after markets harden south and has been hurt by this system not easy when really it's his parents his father that still not trying to do it as father lawns still not good enough so that's why it's a comparison with but I'm a cheerleader may be eliminated because this film doesn't have comments read out the relevant Bible verses but what it does do is make it this is a religious camp do you have a particular Christian justification for doing the mention it they say that they need to identify as the sexual yeah Christine you count in this discussion to several countries have about even really revealing description amount and what does this come into play even got I think I think this but really I don't think I did the solutions to different space I think specifically practices Marcos is quite happy cafe in singing and that sort of thing thank you testament date you know it was not the case %HESITATION Methodist yeah take messages inside five you'd have to sort of cost or that he would be ready to rock concerts or anything that they're not going to Christian rock concerts and missing the Christian rock comments are allowed to listen to the breeders amazing bands but she's not like to listen to them actually when I look into the band was in town nine they came up as while yeah Christensen another band yeah I just got a Christian band but that isn't a Christian band that one second this because I knew all that sort of thing fifteen years ago but I have not remembered any of my musical knowledge told but I was wondering if there was any connection with readers with anybody that was sent to the basic principle of Christian culture and sense of balance prices of fiction using encryption works seek to identify themselves as Christian is taking existing fixed to the Christian version of it they make the effects of bonds made up for the thing as well but they were all named in veggie but it didn't manage to write and dine do seem to be around their website because while your dot com while many uncontrolled understrength presidency of pleasure your noon rookie show to visit we support him order I think that they might not this is from their website we support open borders we support the rights of people of color queer and trans people miss them as people with disabilities and anyone else whose fundamental rights are under attack you support a woman's right to chase we support public education and a car access to affordable health care we support and anti mass incarceration we support freedom of religion freedom of the press freedom of speech and match neutrality they believe in science and affirmed that climate change is real you can still believe Lawrence of course of Christians we check so yeah the friend is pretending that a democratic at the very least if we're talking in American politics the couple days democratic if they are playing in the film Christopher it is very different from their own reason mentioned the comparison with is that there's an option when you do something this is going the religious basis that's a bit of an announcement will never going to touch it but what's interesting done in consultation come versus coming home free position shot process which were the religious stuff is one of my number one and most of it is talking to your one on one therapy therapy therapy as well sure this process which rules on religious yeah but they nonetheless make sure that I have some things going we've been listening to a great start yeah saying that this is not a criticism for students here to look at it to criticism of the misrepresentation misinterpretation of Christian doctrine and I'm thinking okay she kind of has to say about you know I'm endorsing this phone which is completely criticizing Christianity but there were moments that were thought this for which is very quickly going one woman went did that was because someone remote access to so you have those moments where you feel like you're pretending to those the moments where you really need to leave she goes to the gravity faced yeah description of how the idea of faith is mechanisms yeah one these two teenagers can see straight through another area Russell this is specifically consent is that pastor Rick and his sister the service returning to really understand the psychology of census and survey of cinder certainly take approach to how they're going to get everyone to not function so they have this pretending to understand the mechanism causing what they deem to be a problem I'm not pretending to understand of course turned out to be just a fiction as it sounds the idea of being tight lipped tending to an extent on several different owners one of the and of course when you go into a room from you can just so many questions but I think that almost certainly somebody went to anyone telling veterans they were standing at the brink of there was a book that was written most destructive could coax faith healing and something something something but this is big things it could be ten seven facing three during this workshop scene when it comes to talking about the decision that going and that's this movie roles I think criticizing Christine conversion therapy six the nature of the service it might seem they were trying to do is go some people but it's kind of okay because it's just aren't working well the talking cure version two point three the earlier versions of gay conversion therapy enough in this country is thinking if you it's a people who've been through it Univision was electric convulsive until it gradually shaded into something which was a little bit but of course it's common specifically says it's it was a decision made much in this we could just share this with someone which is when people need into a vision therapy and efficient it is even at the hands of the NHS trying to get people to for example yeah we can get somebody to associate smoking with with any of those they want something to consider in that sense it can still be done but conversion therapy with six rounds we be aware that if somebody can send texts during right you can you will get instant convinced that they are evil in so doing take the choice away they are brainwashing there's a woman or a thumbs up for grabs she gonna kind of celebrate a moment here where she gets with the program she stops initial resistance action really becomes part of it I need for just a moment a shirt come running for a couple of scenes that are the kind of montage music everybody should Cameron seemingly becoming more integrated into this culture where everyone keeps saying that same sex attraction is the results of problems for their upbringing okay maybe this film is going to go that way because it went a couple of steps in that direction to go just look this situation is for several reasons they have a sense of community I have a sense of the people taking responsibility for and they have something promising to remove them from social contact even though the search conflict is caused by the system and that by removing from a company in very good not talking about short duration and lends well we need to because that camera was fitted with unflinching but it wasn't entry set I noticed it was a lot of it was quite tight spaces on it was number one right up in the sixties when they so it felt like it was from their state that's what it felt like to me in the sex seems to be so early on yeah with one of the school as it was happening first one is when this happens in the conflict between Cameron Kohli consent to sex between coming and curly show in very read each other and then later one is FOR calling again between her and currently is that's one way they seem to be in somebody's bedroom back at someone's house before she became an inmate stroke I can charge for each other for short very close so but then later on in the film the way that the person's behavior seems to go what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom so I'm going to do lots of standing back and watching without popping around from one job to the next ones that comes up next even when it seems like it's time for the show later on from those extreme close ups share this with you shows it's very brief shots then the common becomes a lot less interested in terms I think that might have been very blessed the firm going maybe she does carry with it last it wasn't necessary static it's not like it was perhaps with a lot of the shots but it was maybe the operator was in one place in the team was Ashley Connor and actually it's a very woman had the same site she held the camera and replacing the following the actions of their site men's fashion right following the actors taking days about it's never increases it's never fight scenes bodies never craziness resting just this is this is teenagers getting in on trading on their prices giving us enough we need to see it because we need to understand their experience actually normalized yeah normalizing items strip everything on things and then they need at the moment right the box of callers single bands I know it's very normal never intrusive you might see on a because there the other from South for example yeah it's happening explains that there's this Christmas time it's just and it's not and it's not for our pleasure helping fashion and we just happened to be went missing at the scene in which Cameron wakes up from is that the gods promise kind she wakes up in the middle of the room Erin is leaning over and saying are you okay okay you seem to be having a dream and cameras yeah I'm fine and then because they're so physically close price just give it a five sixty three teenagers thank you know it seems like an Aaron goes for Cameron Cameron just responds because she wants to have sex that's why I got it I actually comes in the conversation afterwards that common a lot way to word sorry and then some to the verge of going it's not getting people when I however if you're not in this particular case he's being told that they must twenty I don't gonna be cool yes and so we'll have a bit of sex with just about anything interested doing that scene by kemet it just sat without moving and I think they have to do a thing you guys okay through the lines and see so much of someone standing up trust me in the distance I think it would count as a medium to medium plus it just do something the bristles very teenage something under cruise things nobody stripping off all the time the sum total of people's bodies one from the summit of the teenage aspect of what the people well it remains in my mind the Clinton yes but the kind that you mean that the sign on the car so at the end comment on the friends she signed the papers he signed and signed G. and Fonda his parents shouldn't have collision the call today and because when they're happy means for which is nowhere father is because our mother was then that'll but see tiny little flashback to tiny Jian with her mom to you guys at the same time I had a commune and joins in nineteen thirty eight she's got a percentage because she says that she was in a car accident so she was presenting the actor is disabled more point I think because it's where she Sasha stuff she grooms weeds right now it's because they're allowed to go for high growth we don't know where but she also they managed to smuggle tracer themselves so just like pop that they're not and just three things that are not owned by the house and disco twenty smuggle some internal Hey but I noticed that concession interface there is a person of color and ace for publication so you know there's a lot kind of normalizing that even as white as well as heterosexual is one thing %HESITATION plus should be so that we can never have anyone plan or whatever can I come in anyway despite a month come on that's what to feel like a hero and I think there's a nice connection so they end up on the roadway day managed to escape and they just stay at night they have a small encounter with he's very important because he himself has been to this conversion therapy there's a discussion he said sternly Eric this is he was her again a bank he's a gay man they forced him to take it anymore and they normally start we need a radio noise yeah to make it clear that I don't mean what I'm saying he's pretty traumatized after what's happened mark is going through a lot of stuff but he's trying to suppress it because normality night until he's trying to do that and they're having a very already back because %HESITATION getting ready to hike to the way Chad at this point they don't know what they're going to they're going this is a very interesting same and again become a set back from the table and just observe it all plays out it's a problem because when the three of them get up and they had also continues to observe right just sitting there eating that was my favorite yeah can't and you think this is posturing is the possible of this place one of the two people who are managing it on telling people that it's wrong to even think of themselves because no one's gonna send this is somebody he's killing himself and a victim of yeah just in case get conversions are people after when you walk out the door conflict just because everyone up the service is somebody who himself has just created a conflict recent challenges to the brainwashing is been three who has nine thirty anyway teenagers have realized mark having if you were supposed to be caring for them for the three sisters normal character just sitting there eating cereal just lasting three of the teenagers and without suspecting the reason that rucksacks yeah it's a slightly redeeming moment for one of the two people running this kind of because he's the one who's also thinks he just said that was very sweet I kind of think that short was supposed to but he just kept and right after on sometimes you can it wouldn't surprise me because there's a lot of I can see him thinking about stuff yeah he's got this moment of solitude but he's still performing not version of right so he's done you know any state spiel which is basically just be humans super super friendly by the %HESITATION things that they do please ask he's encouraging about there's a really nice part when you have a conversation with a friend and she said that %HESITATION on your recommendation watch young Frankenstein finally the most I've laughed in years they do the album okay and it's really really sweet because they need the cell connection he is one of them more than these anybody out and she's a really lovely person and she's a very caring person and so is he acts very well and as you say he's a beast vanished it shows you that he's human he takes joy in and this is the same person Hey on my first meets him he's going through a hard five which is it's really sinister and he's the one thank he's checking them with last night every night so it's quite sinister surveillance and he is the one and acting out surveillance Easter mailing them all the time but then you got there very sweet the end result this is just a guy and he suffering as much as I yeah my mom was trying to do one on one therapy with common officer Montez observer calendars making this up as you go along when he starts crying a very important moment in the film sure the it's not the people who are dominating the people who don't know themselves the mistaken and so we have Rick himself being a victim and the media because of this day this is somebody who has social reasons for one she's made the mistake because when there's a part where mark is on the floor and after trying this is the name she's trying to I'm not going to get a for him and she's going to help and I'm reading plays and she's going to the talking cure stuff it's about discussing how these kids feel about it and that can help this is the insidious is that it's clearly indicates it to be a political thing but as always Freudian stuff down on top of it as a way of giving it this continent legitimacy means to help people psychologically you can go okay for the breakthrough today because you cried out fuel resentment about the way the you've got the maximum for example and then you can pretend that the Christianity that helped it was just a listening just asking your question so the way that that was a great way of indicating that this stuff takes purchase it takes hold on the people who instruments because it appearing to be understanding the pain to make a difference the end when the kids are scared they have a little right they have this diagram Atlanta family you can only see the tip of the iceberg see the nine tents on the journey sites that's why the J. it's one of those examples of caring to understand this because I see things is to be honest but to be honest I guess and the service is the extractions it must be something to do with the fact she's an orphan and she's reading the sports she's a runner under court law actually American we must call it tomorrow U. S. and she's wanting this which apparently is a real thing this is always with sandy Campbell for it's like the reinforcing gender stereotypes that women are they're like hiking everybody this is gender politics being very neatly noticed in this firm is claiming that somehow this is some sort of technical mandate having cancer which is the richest female sports anchors we see which is and that way I can't agree apparently aerobics delivering the icebergs I need you to go they've been involved in these rituals because of that time at this camp and this is them creating their own rich it's a way of showing you don't need to rely on any just during the money's and then we see them as a leader in the day because chains joining them in the evening pickup truck on the back windows is because nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety four transaction coming out or is it okay no it was it's lifted from the nineteen ninety two United States okay how the November nine to serve I'm on Clinton he took over from the bush that makes a lot of sense and that it would be an old sticker it's a very clear statement of the things that the person is a Democrat so there is see if I can the pharmacist thinking if they can hitch hike how are they going to pick them up is it going to be played because the state wait for a California state thing to come back for the closing arguments and go stickers but our information for your sticker interesting when the film was in production it was before and twenty sixteen election cast for campaigning for Hillary Clinton another action Hillary Clinton one in the interview we the last time I made a mistake so they were having a party night she said they had a bit of a party that night they went to bed many things that we had a retention being expressed because she and the news comes turning red because the electoral college system makes sense very fascinating that way and the reality that day and I've seen plenty five years right now many twenty five years ago we're still fighting to see hang during his administration because of trump but more because my president it's even more important trump because I might as a child okay the person sign in mail that does sort of therapy at least has been made legal in the UK and yeah national level it's not some states with you know this is fantastic in several ways including church state separation in office including encroachments on the Jersey separation so I think and also the fact that sound has a very woman had we are still not and can never making it before in the interview but they were making it for lines broke when a lot of the campaign women and found a very generally getting a lot of so this is quite how to Desiree French cheese ingredient Americans thinking about social this is quite mixed class and Sasha was need to check this but I'm pretty sure this is right in Andrea Arnold's American honey so again another woman film director she finds fascinating on a date during spring break you know so this is somebody who wasn't a professional actor had no aspirations bang actor right I think this kind of found a star likely green grass he seems to be a very intelligent man right she's very passionate about this issue because I have okay conversion because I think it is no he they actually should they were terrified about coming thank you the company can explore they aren't answering with three of them without an anti and and on the back of a pickup truck the American rose is that all yeah it's one of those long shots on them it's an amazing but thank they're on the back of a pickup truck there's this movement that there's something static appointed time close on the three of them shot of America going past the Katy crossing they talked to talking about guns as if they regard America as a place where it's okay or they might be just near enough supporters it's hard to know exactly what the reasoning is there but it seems like it might be a more natural thanks to Stephen with Iran the nearest liberal an American honey essentially road in many ways it's a unit that and it's amazing and so my I like that I think with the American it's about freedom constrictions the uncertainty is scaring us the freedom if either the sixteen seventeen what can they really do this it goes I'm shocked where sort of writing and please and thank I suppose it's a bit like a graduate in the top of the box exciting amor running all together and it's miscreants by the shop and style and their fees start to drop at the very least transition to begin the relaunch of the graduate what is not the loss of the from the really really happy to at least it's something as drastic they're quite enjoying actually considering at the moment the teenagers thank you the resource as well something on eight times but there is just not yes a year and a certainty that what they're going to be might not be any there is something there yeah I just thought that was very do you think that they listen to you that's a base person so they got the visual table of breeders couple of times in the also watch shop from the at the breeders the same one that didn't take it away but also I have not even a rebellion they're just having a moment of fun and they're not saying anything bad but there's a little bit of the game with the radio station and station when there's a group I think for example and they put on a different radio station and it's four non blondes what's up and they're doing aren't staying in leading the singing and dancing just this moment press your weight and there is one of the characters ASAP because she loves singing and singing gospel choirs well for one of the other girls in her hair and turn yourself into this space because she sent to please get in singing with Canadian this is worth noting that women rock stars on a woman is fronting the band didn't even go to say yes to find one that and it just feels nice none of the normal line hi people failing high people explore their sexuality as teenagers but normalizing that women do that sort of thing as well women are stars and pop stars women the scene where rex breaks dying for example in the one one she comforts him Eckstein and she's the one to gather one company because as a human to human she feels for him just one moment when she calls around and she stopped posting she hides under DASCOM's and around trying to do this to help setting is you just have some moment not with me while I at the end of that strong when I come in says goodbye saying it formally coming up very fine I'm going to see you're not aware of the situation like most teen movies that were difficult I missed its dominant messages and your own coming of age were involved in efforts on I think in a personal way I find really upsetting and I talked quite a few friends last summer was very religious yes I've had a lot of gay friends disowned or threatens with because they're gay or bisexual I I'm kind of he has when I was a teenager and I was getting out talks from my mom my mom was amazing my mom very gently sets me whatever happens you know if you ever want to feel like you want to bring a girlfriend how may never be scared of thought I don't care and I think that whatever happens finally say I at the time mom I saw because I was thirteen fourteen and just any kind of conversation I got was excruciating but twenty years on nine o'clock and I appreciate that so much because so many of my friends still don't have I'm devastated for them that means because I had some of my class and I ended up not needing a mom like and I have a stated that so many friends you can switch your money with someone else's name why would I give her away why would I give up on my I felt very grateful and I don't think less of setting right is that it shouldn't be that way it should just be something they can you know wanting what's best for the kids and not what's best for them and then it's pretty difficult because anything obviously feels like she is trying to do the right thing you could even argue that Lydia the council thinks that she's doing the right thing for these kids you can bring somebody to the alternative is worse than you can get someone to do a really horrible things come on the solidarity of empathy she sighed I have never I'm here to say her name but it's Jennifer Jennifer how they I know her and there's something a little bit Meryl Streep about her but she's obviously not mastery because she's twenty years younger and the accent the soaring me because I don't think I've ever seen edging in English is something she's very famous for pride prejudice having so many you should be playing this role because she was the this year's stuff but she has since where she's turned on you feel like violence could erupt from her at any time but it never does her violence a verbal violence is tying up Adam's hair and saving it all standing on very gently standing on marks back just really hold her face where she does not despite just holes in there for me I think it's going to be she's running yeah which is a little more mental your back yeah but I think at some point she's not really pressing it should that's enough to get a message of control and keep them there and then when he starts to rise you know he pitches against he backs off and then come then she decided she comes Mister Spock there is a potential for violence but its internal violence and she's an acting on these kids as internal they're internalizing the styles she's giving them it's very very difficult they argue against somebody sorry well meaning but they actually are a few things I feel like I would struggle to have this kind of conversation with somebody I think I'd be interested actually to talk about it when you talk about and she's also very religious and this was something she had a very hard time she managed to find a church said except this is something you gonna journey as well as not really accepting thank %HESITATION that she would burn in hell for eternity because of her choice she made her not being able to explain that I have made a choice if I could choose I would not be yet it myself but I this is when we have these conversations but I'd be interested to know what somebody like this that's the film about an event that was feasible in nineteen ninety three it might be seem to be saying Hey look what we used to do this is still happening now well I think that's the point of making so I'm wondering why he was upset now once explained it was so the kids wouldn't have mobile phones yeah and isolation from the outside world she said it's a misinterpretation of the Bible gets you to think that someone might be going to hell but don't to specific individuals if your mother your friends found a church that says it's okay to be getting this from the church okay with this regarding yeah well that's in the city towards the replacement of Christianity was looking to try to silence did he regard them as the charges I have to go to you when I was a kid would not regard them as Christians a name to them because I wasn't Presbyterian Methodist and then I went so that was fine I recognized a lot of the singing and rectifying is guitar Direc it's hard okay fine tables having I always seem to have taken a bit of a challenge funky eighties so there's a lot going on this %HESITATION really recommend watching is beautifully made it's so well written directives found matter dates there was one point four this feels a bit slow but that lasted about three seconds I have no substantial criticisms of this active participants I thank immediate active man I think it's ready right saying I think it's really important to come to see I'd be interested in our people thank Saturday or that it's clear from I don't know he direct I mean I think it's for everybody but I wonder if it's more for patches actual people for religious take for them to say to say the fact that this stuff has some people live their lives anybody's game I thought maybe if somebody is be helpful or might scare them I don't know it is going there are social consequences because society has ideas about what you should and shouldn't be aware of that coming out as a matter of making knowledge public in a particular social environment which may include people who don't want that knowledge to exist and I do wonder if this is from the ghosts the kids can escape this is for Mister president how serious gay conversion therapy as well that's why I wonder if it's a happy ending that final send it to me is that they call freedom by on the road that they're on the run in secure maybe it's whatever the American dream C. interpretation not just me great and come at a price to get on the road to get away adult they are very young there's just so many question marks hanging right so I think that's why I shop along if it had abandoned after a few seconds or you know actually just something very interesting it runs for the lines of a song only then the song and that song is non Titanic your diet adding police car in the countryside the site as an audience member you got the discomfort because the music is going along Hey this is happening and then the music we're not saying you feel like you need and he's got three or four words so watching them and I feel and actually I'm noticing that the cars being first but they're looking backwards I don't know how to feel anymore and and close the credit is an indirect way of saying that moving into a situation some Japanese I think I might have said it moreover yeah because I have no sense of something if I make a film that going to be so in your face by James comments from every message repeated eight times for me I guess I'd like something like this maybe then just a quick note on the title of the family because this is something we today was a day of Miseducation that thank and interpretation being and better people I am the Miseducation board decided well this is who you are unless it's what comes out change they're they're wrong we need to so hurry into you know there's ways we can I think in spite of what she had to say in saying that the situation I miss reading the shirt that or she could she could first thing and also think it fosters restaurant I think the film is implicitly saying educating people using this particular book as a source of knowledge is failing to educate and you can make looks like it's getting them X. in point of you may find number one two or three saying that server because your notes on because do you have respect religious freedom and if you're critical and anyway anything this religion we're talking it rather than just raising some issues around an idea be very careful %HESITATION raising issues right we have a right to do something see all the things that we have come to this movie and we've done inside eighteen minutes living is according to this over seventy three hours of free space just think of the to get involved and to keep up with what's happening we are not AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook the website is audio visual culture style wordpress dot com every episode is ranked on the podcast PH and thanks to study skills videos are on the site as well the email as audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com please to consider making a small monthly pledge on Petri on dot com to help sustain and proof and widen access to the podcast on the other educational resources I make thanks for listening sharing and supporting caption next time
It’s Pride Month 2021 and here are our episodes so far that most involve relevant themes and issues:
29. The Miseducation of Cameron Post
Released 3 Oct 2018. Paula Blair and Andrew Shail have a post-screening discussion of The Miseducation of Cameron Post (dir. Desiree Akharan, 2018, BBFC cert. 15) about a teenage girl in the USA who is sent to a gay conversion camp. Involves topics such as religion, emotional abuse and self-harm. View with enabled captions.
Released 12 Dec 2018. Andrew Shail and Paula Blair view and discuss the Queen and Freddie Mercury biopic Bohemian Rhapsody (dir. Bryan Singer, 2018, BBFC cert. 12A), Queen’s music and the band’s connection to film culture. Short excerpts from the song ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ are used to mark separate parts of the discussion, and it and its significance in the film are discussed. There are references to sexuality, drug use, illness and some swearing in the episode. View with enabled captions.
36. Hard Craft
Released 9 Jan 2019. Paula Blair talks to artists Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming about their Hard Craft exhibition in Vane gallery, Nov – Dec 2018. View with enabled captions.
Released 20 Feb 2019. Film doctors Paula Blair and Andrew Shail discuss historical drama Mary Queen of Scots (dir. Josie Rourke, BBFC cert. 15, 2018). With references to violence, religion, sexuality, gender fluidity and women in power. Spoilers abound. View with enabled captions.
62. Community, Collaboration & Courage
Released 18 March 2020. Special episode recorded for International Women’s Day 2020 featuring Paula Blair, Rachel Brook, Claire Murphy-Morgan, Ciara Lenihan, Jess Bennett, Caroline and Jenni McDermott. View with enabled captions.
86. Art & Community with Clinton Kirkpatrick
Released 2 March 2021. Artist Clinton Kirkpatrick talks about working across a range of styles and media and initiating remote community art projects. View with enabled captions.