Last month I attempted to create a communal chalk drawing, by inviting the guests at an event I organized to grab a piece of chalk on the way out and contribute to a drawing that I had already started. The event was an interview with Richard Demarco, arts patron, artist and national treasure of both Scotland and the UK. In the 1970s, Demarco cultivated a strong friendship with German artist Joseph Beuys, a performance artist who developed the idea of social sculpture, which meant that even a conversation could be a work of art. He also espoused the idea that everyone is an artist—everyone has an inner creativity that is just waiting to be tapped.
My interview with Richard Demarco
Demarco, too, believes that. This is the creativity that we all access as children, as we draw in chalk on the sidewalk or colour outside…
hello and welcome to the audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of arts and culture I'm polo player and in this special episode I have the privilege of presenting memories of artists Ali match who we sadly lost in November twenty twenty Sally was a prolific practitioner educator and mentor across many approaches to making and parking he was embedded in the art world in the north of England as I mentioned later on Sally featured in episode forty off this podcast and that episode is linked in the show notes asses the repository of the oral remembrances from some of Sally's friends and colleagues that you're about to hear justice Ali presented a portrait of herself an aptitude for day we have attempted to produce an aural collage of our memories of Sally her transgressive nests her supportive encouraging way her mischievous presents her energy her intellect and what she has meant in our own lives and our ways of working the voice is Europe bites here in order of appearance R. Alexander Hughes and data alley co words Simon Murray Richard James whole Clara ward Adam Phillips and Joe way ties with Scott black satin Allana Mitchell myself polo player Sandra Johnston and finally a poetic prose reading from Michael Tucker my huge thanks to each contributor into Sally's partner Tom Jennings he is making tremendous efforts to ensure Sally's legacy and has been instrumental in the production of this episode's I would like to dedicate this episode to Tom as well as to Sally they were quite the team for those of you listening he knew Sally I hope the memories to fall hello will raise some smiles and for those of you who didn't know Sally I hope this provides some motivation to look at her work thanks for some of which are also in the show notes I will not hand over to Alex and data to lead us and remembering solid match sure wind wind swept hair only energy yes open invitation handles questions asked S. discoveries exploration discerning women's eyes that read me ask you what the trees warm can you cancel this zero tactile play fire she won a Latin she style style yes style easy equal in in a tent is free spirited not not very encouraging me to relax reassurance downed trees hi strong celebration and see and the kitchen table T. clay from the side weeping her have some high thinking busy talking to caring for rule breaker sure it's made me feel like I worry too much about doing the right thing and they are saying once the older you get the less you care to do more of what you want to have the same feeling all that the best thing you can do this let go okay well she said I just think inicia even simple sometimes it gets into trouble but you just have to say what you think there must be at the time where we technically broke into her old home this was one like remaining in the house of Commons yeah then forwarded across and we ponder over the fence and then we met at local kind of consulting totaling out this is John Choate yes I remember attending a story in our slightly saying she had every right to be students down lights and stuff typical solid she when I think of her as a sort of way in way of thinking about her is reminding me to not worry so much or two everything things but just to do what I feel I want to do which sometimes can be harder than it sounds to reading this into yourself and just do what you want without thinking about what does it mean are and will not be good enough just to throw that one out the window and just to do it anyway yeah I think this will be the strongest things on tape from nine Tony is to just try and it's my life the way I want to the way that feels right try to kind of not sweat the small stuff No Way Out in cat Simon Murray and I'm responding to the invitation from Tolman pulling to contribute to a short put costs to these various commemorations system he would really remembrances of Sally I was so delighted to do this it's take me a hell of a long time to think how what I would say and how much I would do it and even now I've just written a few notes and I hope this won't be too incoherent hope there will be two restructurings my wife went to cook up who knew Sally as well as I did %HESITATION will be contributing to the stop and shop event that you and your team %HESITATION so would be contributing to this particular little put cost a new study socially Newcastle ferries mutual friends and apos crossed in those ways but we also taught together at the university of Sunderland between two thousand and two thousand four and bonded around that experience it wasn't a dreadful experience for me but I never felt fully %HESITATION so signed up to the most of a conventional practices that were being taught on that program and I think somebody was the same I came from a sociological cultural studies and theater background and Sally from the visual arts but we met in the engage through performance through experimental theater you know it's weird a merry out possibilities I left the northeast where I spent much of my adult life from being a student in two thousand fool to take up the job director theater Dartington college of arts and it wasn't until I moved to Dartington but I fully realize how much %HESITATION territories of interests overlapped and once again I kinda regretted not articulating that tool enjoying that overlap of interest when I actually worked with somebody at Sunderland what I particularly appreciated about Sally's work because it's playfulness making me every day the %HESITATION regarded in the ordinary extraordinary how lack of interest in the commodified world of contemporary %HESITATION lack of interest is a bit mild sometimes it verges on contempt I think the eclectic range of her practices how lack of worthiness preciousness note to standing the strong shed political commitment I'm not sure if somebody ever soaring counted Tydeus controls work cuticles known about Cantel but I sent strong connection filiation between them through found objects the every day through collage assemblers sure what come to all cooled on but I should through rubbish detritus through quick human under the ultimate political commitment a commitment to make the local the particular national and international and of course they both allowed myself came from a background in visual arts I checked out issues of my notes on cancel his work I teach at the university of Glasgow and %HESITATION the couple could someone to refer to here and in the book the righteous is running through controls into %HESITATION %HESITATION of Mrs fascination with what he cooled reality of a low order and council says hello world %HESITATION which continuously to months of examined and express issues through base materials the basis possible materials that up pool deprived of dignity and prestige defenseless and often downright contemptible I like that done right contemptible I do see connections here %HESITATION what I understand to be somebody's thought practice inside because I was away from Newcastle for the last seventeen years much of a more recent work I never really sold are encountered I think the last time I saw somebody was it a wonderful seventieth birthday party celebration in time not to the same club than that around that time we had some exchanges by email in the conversation about ruins and this was in relation to the book I was researching and writing which ultimately was published last year and it was cool performing ruins %HESITATION the connection particularly walls the shelter that she first directed on Linda's phone in two thousand and two and then it's regular ruination either through natural or human forces this fascinated me and Sally's retrospective designation of the whole story here %HESITATION the whole %HESITATION Shelton as a public artwork in this site specific installation tickled my imagination I so wish I'd written about this in the book I was going to and then for various reasons it didn't find its way into one of the chapters I regret battled there are so many conversations I wish I'd had with somebody I sometimes have them in my head indication he rehearsed them when I'm walking the dog I love to Spock a human the great in the oyster and a playful refusal to accept the boundaries of Alton performance practices disinterest in the labels of community also socially engaged practice if the word boundaries they were there to be gleefully transgressed and ignored I love that's appreciated that's about somebody in her life and in her work as one to finish with a couple more %HESITATION quotations from come to %HESITATION which somehow connect us in a very literal way but the connect with Sally and her death and what we all feel about that and these two quotes make me think of Sally and where she is now these are the little statements which came from performance work the tattoo had written and performed very close to his own death and I think he was aware of his impending death because he was in the well mine and at one point he says I'm on stage again I think I'll never fully and clearly explain this habit to you or to me actually it's not the stage but the border and in his final production much leverage tune which is in nineteen eighty eight he actually acted as well as being the student really quirky on the stage director orchestrating conducting his performance and this makes me think of Sally and where she might be in a kind of speaks his lines the motion of a return in a moment I went into shabby and disreputable pub I've been looking to it for a long time at nights sleepless I've been going to a meeting I don't know with whom either with phantoms or with people I think that's what I've got to say thanks very much I've seen Charlie about because I was friends with Carol Luby festival I thank the first time we got introduced properly and actually started talking was she was doing some artwork the legend Phil where she was gathering like the dust from the library itself and putting it into little bags and just discussing what will discuss reconstituted out well to be fragments of meteorite dust skin %HESITATION bats I could tell she was somebody who really fought about the history of things she put importance on stuff but she also understood that there was are you made to the mundanity aswell there was however in the things that people didn't often see and as the years went on I would see Sally here and there she was one of those sort of faces and people who you would want to gravitate to interest say hi and just check out the way I talk about what the hell is actually going on because I think men have had our soldiers suddenly respect about the factor of sometimes the occupants then we would go to west so by the Daddy one of the performances that are really remember head doing once the one where she would have little intro let and eight she was dressed in the usual sort of like black trousers black jumper but she also had like a white coach John and she would ask people who were wearing like Satan like knitted fabrics so whenever she would actually ask if she could grow the lint roller on and have it as actual sort of piece of evidence of what people carry with them day to day on the surface level goodness me it's so subtle and so minimal and yet it has so much impact on what it actually holds one of the times I did see it do this she was in like a more obscure and the Baltic baby nine near the stairway near where the restroom facilities was and I never saw or complain about anything like that I think she enjoyed the suppleness of fangs chest and tried to sell she enjoyed what she did but if she thought something was crap she would just say scrap and now the phones that I think I remember had doing it was a loner Simpson symposium about memory and I think they actually have videos of this on the Baltic website and she was exploring some that's the realist elements of performance and memory she was even discussing her interests and Freud and Freud museum and the objects stuck to it occupying the museum and how even subtle interventions could do so much to change the environment thanks Ali was like that she's known for a installation work she's known for her work as an educator and she's one of those artists who I think she should have been given more credence and anytime but she was happy actually being slightly in the background for people to discuss happenstance really turned a corner and suddenly you're you're encountering Saudi mileage piece of work and I know when I was helping her out with the school workshops and all that one of the first things I would remember that waiting for a full open is sitting in a kitchen actually looking at like an hour's PCA bad clock just being intrigued by it and we which said that this kitchen table and just try to win the Cup of tea and then get ready for to go out Sally was the type of person who if you knew somebody somebody probably knew Sally I've got a good friend of mine who had hair as a teacher and she said she was one of those teachers who has told you to keep going because she recommends that you have the talent as well as just being this inspirational artists who I really at my end and also being my friend I think she took turns with some of us being mental I think that was part of a gift in a way once the sense of she can see potential promise in people she tried to hold it out ever so gently just to like make you see that you're not chest what you think your limits are I miss Sally really do and I think Newcastle will be lacking from absence but on the other hand I'm hoping that her legacy crew out the people in this city and the region and beyond will extend fairgrounds hello I'm class I guess some of multi media artist nowadays living in what way but I lived in new castle and focus on live up to a long time a new satellite for about eighteen years when I matter I just started on the MA in fine out at Sunderland unix and because I was interested in live up they went for her to be my personal check to even though she was actually teaching on the performing arts degree course not the MA I have a very clear memory of the first second I saw her striding through the doors to the studios towards me with that mischievous Clinton ally and a handout stretched saying you must be class and I instantly thought it's not a version of me but then I also got to know her I got to know she was only someone you could double this by it to be like she had so much energy most alive I think sometimes when you meet someone you can recognize something in them before you even know them that might be very similar to something in yourself I think myself and suddenly had very similar ways of thinking about things in life and each approach our own work processing ideas in a very similar mama even if the results came out very differently %HESITATION member conversations with both was going and I don't have a cat I was shocked by anything we see in the art world easily we once went see cirque de soleil together in new castle stadium there was a lot of anticipation as the tickets were expensive so we saved and then went it was great it was everything you'd think it would but it was sent to somebody what what was funny was with both sides and while we did notice what was going on on the stage of course but we were both a lot more interested in how they convict the lighting or how that does not affect built that sent except we were both a lot more interested in what was going on offstage well the known and sat discussing it all the way through the show I think Sally probably had a bigger influence on my creative life than I will ever really be aware of and I don't think she'll ever ready stop influencing me I was in a particularly tricky situation but the gallery recently when I found myself thinking what sunny side which help me respond in Amman %HESITATION I ended up feeling quite proud of the last time I saw her sometime in December two thousand and nineteen I was over in new castle for a few days so as usual we have to catch up session in the kitchen and went downstairs to his studio and she wanted to show me what should be market now which was complex it was always fascinating going inside the studio as there was all sorts of stuff everywhere and so many ideas hello she's the only person I've known that it was normal for her to always have a freezer full of dead birds and actually I've been collecting on the multi for her no never have identified what kind of animal that from being funding through the lock down to a low marks in the written about now well I live but when she explained what she be making the frogs from scraps of fabric that had washed up on the beach and thinking about the process of making the money what that involved exactly it just made my head explode I've been interested in recycling and my own work a long time but when she told me about what she's been doing a lot she's just taken it to a whole other level completely I was and still am and all of the whole idea and I couldn't have asked for a better shooter on the imac she was always there whenever I needed to talk to my work or life I didn't find out for you yes until it came out accidentally in conversation with her one day that she had she took me for the entire idea of the cost and has spent time for free I think that alone shows how much of a special person she was I don't always felt a content coming up for the and when I asked why she just said she was interested in what I was doing because it was a lot closer to home work and ending on the performing arts degree I used to get questions Aussies hope on the degree cost sitting in with the students and I think she probably got the most performances out of many that I've ever done in those classes the program modeled on the make some anonymous Sir my name's Adam Phillips I work with IBM foundation at university of Sunderland can start in two thousand and nine and then I think something else was a document some performances and from that point it quite a lot of collaboration with Sally specially around some of the Linda's found shelter things two thousand twelve thirteen fourteen maybe yes I am I am thanks I'm trying to remember the year I mean so they both work together but it would be a couple of years before all the mom foundation I guess I went in there to teach initially then I became the course leader and Sally joined us which is amazing it worked out really well for a very good times Sally had obviously worked at Sunderland full sometime before the US cannot shift I think she might have retired the full I think she joined the foundation in the performing arts degree with a performing on us until in two different molecules and and toward the foundation prior to that as well so I'm used to ceramics at some point as well I think so she told CNN influence at all of different courses and was ready at apple and I guess to a certain extent this is why she was such an awesome foundation you know bit of assists hello more parallelism of reasons that machine physical Wilson said the course was a very good match for her as well yeah when I started it was I suppose I just do my P. G. C. so that's when I first met Sally it was is a doing teacher training and already know what you're doing but it was really nice to have a range of different people the festivities but yeah Sally was very helpful and encouraging the students listened Colin she spoke it seemed from my first teacher training so new pass and when I remember how to on an isolated as well she was just quiet in the room with why she settles things yes very nice use she wore a thirty very lightly and %HESITATION I guess it was naturally born from a lot of experience and she was an amazing teacher as well that was the thing she could do research on a little bit because we were thinking about some of the projects you've been involved in that her ability to switch take on different roles is as you push students when needed %HESITATION Sydney be hugely empathetic when needed as well and %HESITATION who also talks a little bit to make in your world at different stages of %HESITATION teaching halls practices and all of that and %HESITATION and the nice thing about the study which was hugely respectful open to new ideas looked out to conversation you know the conversations in the stockroom how we develop projects together and reflected on what we've done we do an awful lot of team teaching at the time and you're right you'd sit down with Sally and a student I never listen to Saudi and you could almost there's a nice dialogue wasn't enough rain what you couldn't often the conversation between the staff and the students would hopefully you get swept along with one of the other or both of us but it was a really nice way to show students that we weren't really that vehicle is still not as you know this of course where you know so I'll wear hold a highway it's the if there's lots of different approaches you can take the best thing is to have a discussion about those and see which one excites and motivates and connects and Sonny was obviously huge asset as an office bringing the restless kind of imagination and multi disciplinary approaches in a real interesting different things as well I think you know so one thing props I learned whole attempted to take on board from site was just being interested the people are doing and creating a listing in the participate true nature of that yeah I think I remember initial team teaching tutorials that it was just very clear that she was reading skills as a communicator and she would take up time with them and I was in I think maybe slight difference now it was maybe more time to allow this now and focus on it was really good it kind of allowing space and supporting students and it was amazing sometimes to watch how much she might get out of school students in a way that I feel that sometimes I I definitely learned from that kind of takes your time and trying to find out more about the students engage with it personal circumstance of it more and I think she was that personal circumstance the empathy empathy isn't just for you and kind of really getting to the net it's you know for what is stopping people from moving forward you know and kind of reading for pay I remember being quite honest I remember yes I'm missing down one student he was clearly quite annoyed it sort of having that Utah Royals something wasn't right and I just remember I mean I was very new to the considered quite a step up from the side of god I'm sensing that something between us that you're not happy about it she rejection on history diffuse the situation through directly addressing and I think that's something that I lost teachers are great tap directly inside yeah she was reading town today a lot of times just die rechte articulate but empathetic communication yeah it would often %HESITATION confrontational and kind of in a way in a very human and I'm surprised I think that perhaps not true on the foundations we kind of end up working with some students more than others but certain ones that got to it was solid they were really invested in their own way can the critical thing with foundation every critical thing on the grease while taking on foundation you coming from school and there's a lot of expectation when you come say I feel right she kind of coming into the studio environment we're trying to encourage and open students up to experimentation but obviously that's an intimidating quite fearful thing for a lot of students this old history Cummings from school with those organizations and particularly young people at a critical stage in their development she was very finding out all seeing where you know we didn't have a problem with discussing and identifying with some of those innovations and oxide ease and I've definitely learned a lot from nothing that how important nowadays to understand anagram taken into the conversation topics students she was very very good with young people shot a very hands on different stages as well we have very mature students at this time as well to me it was fun wasn't it I think Jesse ministry a sense of fun and mischief to the place in a way that led to some really interesting she didn't work and yeah it was almost like we want to address those things so you can enjoy that's what we all want answers yeah it does sound like it's very it is difficult you know essentially she was definitely going to make it enjoyable naturally there was certainly more performance of Michael Mostyn performance work and things that was kind of being mental by Sally as well then there is actually see on the foundation today outside I think we simply influence the way we think around teaching and those sorts of roles and teaching and learning rate but like the kind of different roles people assume that it was more explicit the address when we developed a project with Saudi around these interests remember we called the project came about project full foundation students which a cross disciplinary bat game plan the project was really about he seemed to try different things for different subject areas it was really around basic strategies that you establish an office of designer in the studio to explore and to extend IT so it might be anything from seventy seven few rules around the number two is he gonna do any particular day to setting itself will performative strategies to see where they might lead incidents of fiscal outcomes that you my guess is a lot different always research course you thinking things like performance sausage grease nominal also strategies reflect society so many people in a lot of things that Sally was really really important to he doesn't practice you know so we've developed projects around the house and Senate to initiate every project we did a series of workshops which scraps you can say more about the secrets he thought Saddam all what you want cited pages as a team we designed a series of sort of Hoff day gains and the students went from space to space and what for the different member of staff and we'll kind of roughly I think mine was like a puzzle game using audio visual so projectors and computers and word puzzles and that and then it was a dressing up game Jim Boyles was just come in and we would be looking at the there was a bit of a myth around Saudis with but neither of us had she sort it this is actually what happened in this room we will see a teaching people coming out of the room which is also coming out of the room traumatized by we know that well in a positive way it said she was a came to our place for my understanding and solving sort of essentially brought the students into the room and try to see how far they could be pushed before that the pushback let's all push back in other ways understanding of it was that she had some sort of official overcoat a lab coat on maybe the clipboard I'm the reason the structure's not efficient so appearance I know this because I've also had Sonny take similar strategies it's definitely something I'm familiar with this well I know she's done this on the always teacher course where where at this kind of taking on that role so his instructions to the students I think might install it relatively mild but they would be in the position that they're in and knocked all follow out some of these incidents are related to follow until they were beginning to question the validity or lack of a sense of what it would be nice to do away with my ladies or even that pops the tire rack so wait son he was a young man to do it or dressing them it should be very strict you know since he had a meeting and should also take things quite far I think she was reading coaching students exactly %HESITATION you know to question authority question the rules are being questioned a brief question what could be passed to do I think it was a seems activities %HESITATION goals which were you know in my own way supposed to make them think about game play and we write down that that might include the roles within society %HESITATION day power play that goes on more broadly holds the power yeah it was really invented in way of encouraging kind of reflection and those kind of strategy is well we just looked at them with from gameplay I you say those sheets which I hugely invested in the work as a result but also the amount of students performance finalists graphic design is even change the show PO's of that you know will crosses was that with the kind of rights head in a business suit wasn't here kind of yeah really interesting out soon really really interesting pieces of work as a result of that kind of abuse of a lot to this kind of thinking and the strategies that some of the workshops that I use I also did the slide shows that project is when it is nothing said he brought a lot to say so fluxes Newman and remember I mean not the establishment to a case where the stands out for me studies work around the flux a show at the old Vic on the one hand you go taking on the role of this authoritative role within a teaching context and I remember taking students down to the flux and there was a lot of obscene musicological displays of fluxes wicks and Sally and been given license by the Baltics sale last final take to develop performance pieces around a sequence when in the evening then you get to this particular case remember Sally had a %HESITATION cleaning trolley the laptop again on the lock up again yeah but more like a cleaning it like seems kind of almost %HESITATION some of the visit is that she was completely invisible and for the students to go and see this show and he needs to come out the peripheral vision of a cleaner instead the like performance pieces might have been involved in my memory polishing the cases for a particular period of time all over again cordoning off areas so that the people who visit the show could only say he said it sounds all Roderick viciously so you called government yeah so this kind of power does what she was doing it in the studio and teaching is a nice photo I think of %HESITATION combat his work which fluxes X. it is but it's got a very large sort of projected bottom within the social realizing that and that's just so silent so projection bottom so quite profusely for context and time yeah I mean choked up the crooks and full of the second since the way that dialogue between yourself as an artist and a teacher thanks and the dialogue between the teacher and a student in there hello so roles and I think that was something we all took a great deal from wasn't ready with sap and all like a studio for staff alongside the students something's working that was the staff wherein you know things like hitting the press and that kind of proximity of your whip to students something to something and the importance of thought it was something that I'm very easy to say within somebody's practice each didn't differentiate too much between those things and kind of reading courage those crossing visit did you have a T. R. rated like that will ceramics workshop she used to do as well when it is essential to building utopia so it just was real nice one because I think ceramics often has this focus upon making a profit or a phone yeah I'm kind of how to do that and the technical prowess of throwing in things about India and she kind of turned on its head and put the material as a way of sort of explore and really quite magical the large interesting ideas in the students first take the wet clay and stop building a building or a home or a house or pests in our character and then he saw giant MCAT style to unfold from F. at the end and not truly a debate and in the end of the Cold goes in the bin rather than gets fired I expect for ceramics project I do news Sally's teaching history a tool but these childlike play and in a way no activities where he put his size critical judgment and you're not really you know nothing on foundation those kind of and for all this is well I mean it's a really important thing to do isn't it quite often when you want to stop stop and Sonny was a meticulous selects around assist you know the millions he made Whistler thoughtful and carefully constructed at that workshop almost seems like off which is going to check in at the end yeah so much by protecting so much other stuff comes out of some of those approaches that was being explored and yet the students again the student voice yes I'm providing coverage to the point where they just actually having a howling stable is the real life I mean Sally being that well my time with my son and his time on the foundation that I know about which between the basement aspen house which you may have join us for some of us no no crack we moved over it's a very soon to you %HESITATION and St Mary's which subsequently became known set of token now is it an office building but it was fantastic it's time because we had this kind of independence from a wider institution building to house it I might have to members who had already retired and gelled so well because she had this great sense of phone with all these it is me in the middle and you imagine for teacher training that was a real if we look back it's quite nice are you excited because it's a real light yeah you want to see that kind of exchange and people questioning things at different points you shouldn't take things too seriously publishers of jury so invest in the teaching %HESITATION yeah so you should not invest it the complete opposite really invested but not down with institutional things I think foundation great a great space well I feel you know it was a really enjoyable period for an existing McLaws drawing to a close with staffing changes she ended up no longer working with us which is a real a real shame and how many years should come back out but they were amazing we were reminiscing about trip to Barcelona trips %HESITATION lively times anyway but there's not one way but those complaints from hotel managers about noise and realized it was actually a family and I are calling Hillary was from a member of the knights %HESITATION about nights out it was definitely the strips all those memories that you go back to restructure the finding they're used to and I %HESITATION she's powered balsa loner I'm a whale of a time is because you know since the phone that Saudi role and also see since the investment and things something with Grady call off from hi my name's Ruth Scott blacks and irons I am recording this from Philadelphia in the USA that's how they get day goes by that I don't think about Sally match Sadia factions have a my work is profound would be an understatement I first met Sally aspen house the art studios at Sunderland university back in two thousand four I was studying for my MA in fine arts and she was teaching on the performing arts program by our practice was heading towards performance and video so the heads of fine arts suggested I talk with her I knew from my very first chats with Sally that she was spelling with ideas thoughts opinions and talking to her so I right now I felt more like five minutes she was a generous with her time and thoughts and also I was able to push me too hard places in my off park this while still having that campaigns and gentle touch it was hugely supportive coming from a fairly traditional sculpture degree I didn't really know a lot about performance the talking of Sally okay so I'm going to walk to be possible to me she had a nice fear courage to art and life and in some ways that rubbed off on me I start cameras to my body great people hold signs during performances kept pushing the Saudis guidance horrified that was contagious follow good night following the sense to ask a question okay talk through an idea %HESITATION just for a chat about anything really she got me out of my comfort sign I remember it was the end of the MA program she gave me some literature that was predominately terrorism related and one quite stands out but I continue to think about even useful installation I created twenty fifteen eastern state penitentiary in Philadelphia where I now live there was no trace without resistance and no action on the surface without paying for my piece at eastern state penitentiary I title that no trace without resistance this was a work where I gold leaf the walls of a south check peeling paints all throughout the penitentiary that was peeling paint but there was one specific style that I wanted to work on I was thinking was what happens if we keep scratching underneath the surface it can be very ugly but if we go a little further often something magical and beautiful can be discovered hello this is Sally yesterday actually I was doing a photo shoot having my photo taken for projects about listening that my husband is working on while pacing for the fact that I was asked think back to a train with someone really listen to you instantly I was transported back to Sally's kitchen table often she sat and listened she was a good talking to she was an amazing Wisma skillet embodies the heart and soul of a person every time I go so hard decision or challenge in my life I think to myself what would Sally do and it really is a compass in the weeks and months after her death our family would see traces of her all around background and we live in Philadelphia as I mentioned last night that she gave Bob and I my husband's as at present when we first moved in together and actually now sets and the basement winds are of my art studio a China plate that she gave me that I often eat from also a penguin puppets she secretly gifted mine now five year old daughter Betsy on our last visit with Sally almost two years ago we called the penguin style one moment I got married almost ten years ago we ask guests about wanting to make it costs each year are the best in the open the costs this past year we opened Saudis how apps it was a beautiful crown and a pair of cool paper wedding glasses spectacles one of my fondest memories from that day and watching Sally dance she was really broken up the dance floor it was amazing to see when I think back again to talking at the kitchen table I think if that happens actually one of the first things my husband robin I talked about following her passing these amazing hands that made lots of lessons in bodies everything that the Sally she was always brimming with ideas in some ways I was envious that she had so many ideas it was really hard to keep track of everything that she was working on was just some inspiring has lived in Philadelphia now for the past ten years and just before moving here I embarked on a project when asked friends to write memory that was dear to them I actually recently came across south Miami it's written on some lined paper in her handwriting so I'm gonna just read outs as a child not sure how old I am playing doctors and nurses given my dolls injections holding my mother's darning needle isolated gas waiting until it is red hot the Catholic pushing it into the dolls up arm I feel a great sense of satisfaction is the hot needle slides effortlessly through the plastic and I'm with Joe leaves a small black and whole following this operation I apply sticking plaster stolen from the bathroom medicine cabinets I finish the procedure by talking up my doll comforting her and walking out to sleep I feel very grown up and the fashions this style has many holes in her arms so many games doctors and nurses Sally S. on the third of may two thousand and eleven and as I mentioned it's hand writing sorry it's a very precious piece of paper to me you know I don't really need to say anymore about that it's got Sally but no life for us and we can see from a young age that inquisitiveness and intense curiosity more recently I've actually picked up this project again I've really been thinking about at a loss how about memory and see how we can preserve memory and I thought a backseat is five ask you many questions about life but also had many questions about that it's very age appropriate but some of these conversations really take my breath away she describes dying as being in the start it's such a vessel and match but it's really hard to race out from one's mind and I think Sally would have loved us enough to think about how shall the project since the star and sent the lands and all the elements that go with that it really felt necessary to start this project up again how we take our memories with us to the star and with this project I'm really attempting to preserve some of these nominees you know when I have ideas like this I truly miss being able to talk Sally an email telling him my plans have encouragement support always whispering in my ear from a fall maybe not that far away the garden arms %HESITATION was looking down on me from the basement window the last time I saw Sally was over two years ago I was visiting the U. K. that's how my brother's wedding as always I drop by to see Sally and she's made myself my two young daughters and siliceous watch Betsy had just turned three and how he was only four months old Sally may have dared Phyllis folksy and to my surprise my daughter with me at the time slapped up every last drop she was sorry guys with my girls and I'm just I'm sorry happy in sales that she got to meet them and they got to meet her I don't think I ever told Sally how how much of an influence she had on me in my work and I definitely didn't tell her how much she meant to me as a friends which makes me sad but when I'm saying this I also if he had a little boy from my hands that tells me that she now and then instantly and transport it back to her kitchen had devilish laugh I'm not twinkle in high I'm alignment to and I'm an artist and a person who makes all things happen with other people and I've been doing that anyhow so for twenty years also so I've lived in the castle since ninety eight so I went to the casino did my degree graduates in two thousand two never left the telephone payment and I first knew Sonny reasonably soon after I graduated there was a platform for live %HESITATION that was a regional platform that she was one of the people he was the group is set up and I was in the first one and then to come running it after that and she was one of the people on the steering grade so I've known her since then it is definitely one of the things I've literally like the most green recent blood literally left you need the year before and took on this thing because I was like yeah I'll do it not knowing what I was doing and it was such an amazing team of people who just really support that I was like yeah get a minute I mean like with totally with me it was a no huge learning space but I never felt with her %HESITATION or with any of them like I was some kind of genius I always felt like an equal which was just amazing to be like a glitch that just left me we don't don't know each other but %HESITATION just into art and have enthusiasm for this thing I know that full on Apollo assistant incredible and so generous and so I will say my double she was called willow and in the pace of Sallie Mae she was anonymous I think yes it does say that in the article artist in this age of jumble the goddess has the pack remains nameless because it does not belong to match but it is staying at home to create this must please enter it just find it really funny that this idea that my job was anonymized because that might give away too much personal information somehow if the job has been named in the guardian that someone might be able to track us down doubles two things all the time because they have teeth that never stop growing said they need to constantly two two I used to give her the inside of the toilet roll into the conflict chiefs and she would cut them and it was really cute I spent Ricky because she would sort of do it side to side and then the pieces that were left away for like little smile shape shoot me because she wasn't eating them just and then they would suit to does that become a bit sort of nest material type thing so they M. that does the animals they really shouldn't they should live in a tank to a cage though I didn't personally know the of the time and she was in a cage and %HESITATION save temples you should really have them pass minimal social who is felt that side for one she was left on her right in that case we'll see she came out of the cage as well but still I'm really not sure how the conversation came around that simply making this connection of like me to look into this but but it definitely was I think we must've been talking about it at some point and I'm not sure which came first I don't think she was sitting around waiting for someone to have a job I think that something of the conversations perhaps that we were having about I didn't maybe she might have someone else you have to jump in and just so happened that she needs the I did but let that kind of thing about how they keep touring and all of that sort of thing and like just must have been some thing of conversation somewhere along the line I quite like the call of this and this is me making up and that's how I feel about it but it's not like I'm not sure what they remember but there is some element of it that was we will have been talking at some point I'm not even talking about having a javelin some think about that which is nothing to do without nothing and then this idea came out of that and that's really nice well it's nice to think about how it happened say the book it was very specific book that Sally Chinese that was cool the new illustrated universal reference book of nineteen thirty three willow the Jebel spend these few weeks just with that as the thing that she chewed up and she checked that it was okay but it wasn't poisonous Alaska to think it was a very different way to poke the paper for you in the paper and then she's always made other things from the newspaper center that does some of the the exists in her work it was common expression it wake good this this thing at the beginning about how it was going to be in the gallery it's quite a few years ago two thousand five yes it was going to be that well I was gonna live in the gallery and obviously someone would come in every day made sure she was okay and take them out plates that were actually gonna make me just as much as anybody else because again we found the right for me it wasn't unkind and it didn't feel like in many ways knowing what space was like at the time you filled out different opinion my house something still in a cage still no I definitely didn't feel terrible but we preemptively on the gallery preemptively spoke to the RSPCA about whether it would be cruel to Dana and they advise the company would pay and is one of those things is probably like somebody would have sent it so cool they've got a job %HESITATION being doing art no just being enjoyable I don't think it's ridiculous to get them in cages so even though I and %HESITATION I had was just a funny and funny situation but anyway the RSPCA sent yeah probably down to about seven steps Ali had her at her house so she lived with Holly for those few weeks of the exhibition and they did a %HESITATION I presume it was a live stream which sounds like something a sense like so simple but in in two thousand five split little little bit more complex assembly at the X. files episodes streamed into the galleries the gallery had a video of the job of making this nest yeah and it made the guardian it wasn't front page news but it was in the paper a definite in the paper what it says is a quote from I'm just reading from the article that said the seventy two year old books and the book is an old book original editor posted to the booking neighbors the reader to have a mine of information at their fingertips the jobless mining sections from the encyclopedia to make its nest I'm sure celibacy issue we took more eloquently about that book and everything to do with it I don't know very much off of my head about the new illustrated universal reference book from nineteen thirty three but it sounds fascinating I'm sure it is useful for universal references it's quite amazing book general knowledge gazetteer sports cookery pets handyman and much more what that means I'm just reading from what trump described us on a secondhand bookshop it's funny like it's one of these works that I don't feel necessarily that like not that anyone needs to be an authority on it but what I remember about it is to do with my job rather than to deal with all of the reasons which I should know about it this isn't quite a long time ago now and think about it we live and how tough it out immediately for very long say it makes sense that it wasn't much later that day you know the facts thing she didn't live much longer so it's this funny way of being connected through friendship and conversation and then they said to memories and Glendon people things and everyone helping each other out which is just such a lovely way and I think things work in new castle a lot and I think a lot of the best things in the best bits of the art world on how things happened three conversations and friendships and and that sort of evolution and in a solid someone who was completely at the heart of the fun and made my entry into that world Mary Smith and felt like an equal and like jewelry for sharing of ideas and thoughts and Pat and whatever else you have to make things and I think that's what's so great about our city and our community I remember having this conversation with her about her thinking about making new work and she hadn't made work for really long time and then there was this she had this drive to make new work which from about the sort of time and I feel like because I was doing this platform which was about young around this and kind of we were having this conversation about with that anyone can be making me work it wasn't just about being young in age it was just about coming back to a newly making new kinds of work doing performance which I think you really haven't been doing and not to when we were talking about this I think yes it was a sort of interesting time may be a bit different to sort of things you've been doing more recently that may be a more fresh because I'm talk about conversations that I'm like that like bits of conversation that remember but it is really nice moments of her talking about doing activism and how that was like performance in the coming together of these things and she decide to do and think that she was thinking about doing and some of that being a confidence to do that and the shift of %HESITATION I could do that was a really interesting bit of time to stay like I was developing whatever I was doing at same time but it felt really nice which Sally was really supportive of I was part of like a creepy but those definitely answer mutuality and I kind of have in seeing new work being made in supporting students through when she was working at Sunderland and she invited me to do teaching with some of the mental I've still had doing that and sort of hat inspiring younger people whether students alike may email of the people we were working with and then also saying that that was something she could do and finding new ways of making what that was really exciting to see and be part of a kind of connect to them I moved from Belfast to Newcastle in August twenty fourteen and Sandra Sandra Johnson was going to be away a lot of that month's during performances here there and everywhere you know and I didn't know anybody else here and so she paid me any email contacts to Sally because Sally was planning on offense that sounds great yeah I'd be really interested in and it was a site specific screening of cul de sac right at Lindisfarne holy islands the film and it's being made in that location and getting together and watching it and not location and being able to see I think it was mark today of the shelter was there at the time so I saw the second version of the shelter it was weird because I got thrown into this bunch of people I had never met before and you know Sally had emails and such yeah come on we will have to route traffic tend to combine to number four and it was this bizarre experience fine you know good day and this person was inviting me into her home and she had a Cup of tea in the kitchen and I think that was Sally's method of seduction perhaps getting in some not kitchen Republicans say sat there for back how to chop and then packed up the car and headed up there so %HESITATION can't remember will be talks if item is in the day is an avid years ago so I think we're just getting to know each other a little banks and have the most wonderful evening and I was very stressed and anxious because I didn't know anyone and I've never been there before and it was the darkest night ever seen because I'm a city slicker and there's no lights at all like there when it gets tough it was one of those for you you knew you were part of something special on the experiences always status may end and I had taken the photos as she J. and %HESITATION that Sally was quite keen to get copies of the photos so I put them on a CD four inches for came to have me come running to high C. K. N. I was working at Newcastle University so was on our doorstep had no excuse I was right across the road anyway so I had to go around for another couple today and discover the same day after the photos and stuff yeah we just kept in touch and over that year because I was contracted at Newcastle for eleven months sundered party organized to drafting event at north Cumbria and Baltic thirty nine and that was very solid deadline scope where she was dropping us all with the roller had she just chatted away and she was collecting your stories as well as each physical traces of your shop selling is a collector of sayings as well and she was collecting us you know six who referring us up keeping a sperm deadlock haven M. U. R. Dustin are traces of ourselves and those for Colton conversations that were not recorded in anyway it was just it was part of the performance as part of thought life active collecting this physical traces she was also collecting just getting to know yelping collecting your stories you know that summer holiday of all the stuff they put an emphasis trees system keep in tough Jana sticky paper entries using French chalk I think a dusting of French chalk to connect to Salem often make sure they didn't pick up anything else so it was an act of preservation and sounds strangely fascinating the subtle colors in the palette Cindy's beautiful abstract works of art that came out of that was great so you know those are your is to provide thanks in the first year that mean you Sally and then and then I had to move away for different job so I didn't see her really a toll for about year and a half and then when I moved back to Newcastle I wasn't very well for a while but then we started to see each other regularly and twenty nineteen we probably had seen each other since but she organized a nice dinner for Saunders fiftieth birthday in December twenty eighteen and Cisco this that'll kind of S. two gas there I never understood desk side so I sound like she's the real deal why she won't dina but with me for that she was she was interested she took an interest in people and you know it was in her suggestion that we spend more time together and then track twenty nineteen we did spend quite a lot of time together and I felt very close to sublease rate that year and that was when I was quite early and twenty nineteen then when I was brave enough to ask her but she takes some time for my podcast I'd love to interview you for my podcast and two might upset the lights not only did she consent to that but she said could I do something different could I maybe just reflects on my whole career and she wrote this beautiful reflective fast safe that she ratites then we have chats and so that was fishy the facts that I just remember the experience again we recorded it in the kitchen the number four I just remember that trying because failing of setting their cold I had to stay this monitor the recording make sure she was fine reassure her a lot because she wasn't confident about it and she didn't like what she's written and sometimes things are going it's beautiful it's most beautiful thing I've ever heard you know what she thought what she thought in our mind is not going to be changed and all of that but it is it's a really gorgeous essay and really informative and our conversation after it jury a lot more items that you know we really got into a lot of the same sex marriage in her work you we talked a lot about follies things having the folly and she told me but was she containing it by collecting for years and years and years old it's a fabric that had washed off you're on the shores all right the silence it's my great provisionally to the finish off some of that work because there was a lot of it she was actively working on when she died and quite a lot of things that were almost finished but not quite and I put the responsibility but just a great joy to just finish them off don't know if that's what's all you would have to miss them I see it as a collaboration my family that I never got to have when she was alive I think she had a real defines impact on me because as I was recovering from illness and transitioning really from being at quite a theoretical academic C. embracing a more creative approach chasing king and dating things and making things and tapping into that part of me where I was always making stuff as a child and I'm so when targets and then I just went on a more academic Passeridae as a teenager and I think Sally ready problem although that I just me again so it's really nice and to be able to see that for a little bit and just assisting her with some of her pieces so I'm Sandra Johnson I'm an artist a new Sally trouble each year's earns became part of the community the pharmacists %HESITATION in new castle realizing pretty quickly her insurance I was an amazing person that she was but yeah we connected through ought to create specific that says true performance art and questioning the sinking around the purpose of everything I did was Sally was %HESITATION was upon opening the door and trying to generate trying to create opportunities for others no matter how modest you sing yourself as part of the scene sings self as part of a collective body of people like you know you can work to each other's detriment to you come up to each other's gross I hope that we showed that this idea of if you can open something for somebody else on the way better better rather than this is my projects and space limitations of photons this is the she and this is the product it was very much about how does this exponents landscape has expanded its history and how does it expand into the present moment to fix social space a lot of our friendship was about sourcing and really working through the materiality also Jackson's substances and she came back from a strained out was fast and it was %HESITATION Kerr and she actually purified and mine's a bike for the focus for me but she finds in landscape which is perfect is this perfect gift she handed me like an envelope I bought a small shovel full of yellow ochre from the Cumbrian landscape and those interesting things like me often poker from Australia and also because I don't go in the art shop probably produced in France and then she handed me because she saw seem when she was walking through the landscape she was always find a lifeguard skills animal skeletons but also she made necklaces out of Robert down to middle sorts things out of storage and the side that she spotted a seam of yellow ochre in the middle of a coastal landscaping overseas to produce Ali to mine and to bring it back and that's we talked a lot about that particular thing and it is and how is an artist your Honda materials with the you're converting them into something else as a sculpture process as an artist to conversations with Sally were so rich because we had a ripple effect except for hours about distinctions between things in space in a way what makes something art or not art causes us to that line between our life that we are both interested in I wasn't just to emphasize a an artist in north Easton somebody having a strong social identity but also very strong feminist identity a lot of our conversations would be about what is to be a woman making performance and what it is to be putting a body in front of an audience and the phone bills to sign for legacy that should be %HESITATION underestimate is how churches please she felt about this woman and to it yourself awards and to be seen and to be seen doing things that are will show signs of chords and progressive for absurd too shiny so that was tremendous humor in the work which is very very difficult to do the four months since it's very difficult to make genuinely humorous work I think some of the %HESITATION got away with it because it was never cheap there's always something very mysterious but the way that she would turn the tables on things into the audience we should keep moving perceptions of what was happening she wrote quote hopefully change the momentum or changed you know change the pace of the estrogen are suggested to her she used language she used in a way the lecture format so she's one of those performers where the use of the speech and use of text was really really critically important and I think it was an expansion of her teaching and her sense of paying to go to get motivated to that when she was performing she was also informing in a way also cruising productive misinformation that she would see performance as a platform to play with ideas and play with people's prejudices or substances I very much like the way she used physicality and really precise sections but put in conjunction with writing the way that she delivered to Texas where she spoke when she was reading a text that she'd written was formality but then she would drift into informality and shop with the audience knows what steered by the city's sneeze shifts in mood and how she would work through a body of material which is also something that we have in common it's not overly choreographed how to work with a number of things and put them into motion some of Tennessee and the chaos of science you know how long you can keep each one of those ideas into this physical ideas how long you keep them alive for and what happens when they collide and what happens when %HESITATION the diminishing you have to leave them behind she was a very very strong link between the performer and Sally the researcher and academic and desire to inspire people through ideas and that was it within that was a very strong feminist agenda that I really really admire to what was Carl and the way that they pose seemingly carelessness and honestly you know they were so %HESITATION so funny and a reference you know when you're in the company whether they were performing or not it was just like so within that this woman had such passion such meticulous on it in a call so well but a sincerity and associated with the oxytocin forming on snow working with difficult ideas was so you know so much there and everything that she did it there was a kitchen composition or performance or teaching and also the way that she was with children the way that she brought here what I mean by reference to said childishness but not in the way of course I childish which are a hundred the noxious horrible message in art it was somebody's genuinely working with the spirits of innocence and invention and this is simply for the poor the way that she would put things in motion I'm not really sure which way they would come together I think that excitement was really tangible a new watch tower known to a lot of potential I think that's what I meant about the innocence that she has enough issues and some playfulness we don't know what the test is going to achieve but you throw yourself into it one hundred percent then there is the accidents that is the beautiful thing so I think we're both cell and I was fascinated with was hard to keep our spontaneous and system and if you don't keep this level of spontaneity within it that it loses some of its life I think she was interested in was the spark you know talking with her and this was a problem solver and having a creative relationship with her I know that she did this for many many many people this is the thing that's coming so he was a mentor and a huge creative support inspiration for so many people because she was well capable of putting the elbow and north giving you the extra so knowledge of like why are you holding back why don't you do it you know why don't you just do that I do not support a sick idea what's holding you back make a phone call and I think there's a lot of people like us to consider their just for things to happen I see many artists are rates of some of the people making good art you know this is sort of jealousy around but what I loved about Sally was so close that can never be enough good art is not possible so why wouldn't you engage in some humble way with seven markers ought Sally much there she is a tiny figure in the distance sprouting along the touchline vanishing into the mist soon she will appear again at the top of the deeds of sliding down with an armful of collected material scraps shreds will down the wind dried leaves be treacle feathers clusters of dried blood arek canvas strips carton of cuts ripped and crinkled staying with oily smears right plastic Schantz rusty orange imprints on bits of tarpaulin congealed pitch loosely strips of red brick docks lives of ply so the misshapen cobbled worn down fragments of glass beautifully bent sticks reach wrapped in bundles with found brunt cold fluorescent fibers knitted into extraordinary spatial drawings sometimes she would trudge torches at others she would hurry a small front steps in the sand the fading trailed behind to a trace of her urgency etched into the land she is the figure in the landscape we note her comprehensive movement about the beach down to the edge of the sea and back up over the change with people without people people moving towards our people moving away from her or part of her performance of exploring finding and making of interpreting the broad sandy spaces adjacent to the North Sea she celebrated core of old road lugged up from the sea and they're in the genes come across an elegant loop of insulated wire perhaps just an inch long Sally ever the whole card collector alert to every creative possibility researching stimuli for the future creative actions and just alive to the delight of finding she would have a soul collecting wood for the fire and we will return to some previously agreed income until they are well done perhaps she would have already %HESITATION arise blowing into our hands ready to ignite some cross some tended to get a place going on a winter's often in the mist hanging over the sea darkness descending sparks flying in the air would smoke trailing away into invisibility children like Amy and Lucy delighted at the venture Sally would crunch over in her fur coat and there would be food all of us sitting and watching and laughing and talking and eventually we would all go home the better for it each of us with our own digital collections in emulation of her enthusiasms days later things would appear joined up constructions in the yard tiny arrangements on shelves fact collages in books hanging sent to gather the precipitation consciousness that is scattered in the toddler articulated in combines enclosures in thought in Oct other fragments peeled off the world scraped off the beach natural the toddler and buried in the sand rescued from the fire blown by the wind clutch under her arm squeezed into her pockets bundled up with strange and in the pages of sickening workbooks these found poems of fragments unexpected combinations books like sheaves feathers rags hanging out of the binding the book of the found materials between the pages are holding firm for experience this was Saturday the spontaneous wrestler's performance artist being closely observed in her practice Sally as a teacher introducing us to techniques of alfresco making engaging with the land finding and openness about material of freedom to make using anything to hand collaborating to find meanings and expression surprising alliances and alignments juxtapositions and overlaps generating metaphor and narrative Sally a tide line in your studio offering findings making urgent revelations look what I found indexical gestures look at what is possible fairies who from the sea all this from where we have worked where we have been taken hearing the wave sweeping over the sand seeing the shag flying low over the cold we'll see and it is %HESITATION spreading outwards through you flooding through your house the precious unforgettable Fulson Thomas's crescent and on and on through those of us you brought within your compass a maker a teacher of a former a divisor of activities happenings and events constructing landmarks out in the North Sea borders asserting the principles of land out engaging opening watching us encouraging us children converged on her ready to receive her praise and common tree for their own making back in the kitchen around the table celebrating with conviviality the error of the North Sea in the malls in the rivers with a glass of wine shared food inclusive talking no one outside everyone gathered together around Sally around her table around her mind around her making building in her passions an inspiration to all of us a polymath the mental and artist Sally manage rivers imagine a moderate offshore breeze when the tide begins to wane with the lapping of tiny waves blown back against the grain battles in the sun crackle as they shift this way and that while you stroll along the shoreline with Sally chewing the North Sea fast
hello and welcome to see this twenty eight twenty one and if you're gassed showcase we made it very another year we had some really fantastic guests here on audio visual cultures through quite the past year whether you've recently joined us or you're just here for the good parts this recap of highlights is free a I'm Paula Blair and in making audio visual cultures I investigate a wide range of areas and audio visual media and the creative industries these include cinema television streaming live performance music audio production and the visual arts and much more anything you can think of that might be considered audio and or visual culture that's what we're in today so the issue has been going since March twenty eighteen and we've covered a lot of topics since then in the past year I've re branded the podcast opened its own dedicated YouTube channel and have been learning more and more ways of making improvements and sign quality editing my performances and interfere and communicator on how to get the show right there and better ways are incredible patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures have been instrumental and supporting all that work and I can keep going but cite them and there are loads of exclusive extras and early releases on pitching on so please stay find a satire and consider giving regular support to sustain and improve this show fires are our hosts a cast have also been tremendous and offering training and tools to facilitate marketing in rage so banks thanks to them as well if you follow AV cultures part on the socials you may have seen this year Spotify rocked three which we learned we've been dying noted in twenty two two countries in the past year which I'm really bowled over by I am I'm just so grateful anyone's listening a toll but the idea that strangers and countries I've never been to your last thing not so exciting and I'm really grateful massive thanks to everyone where ever and higher for your last name we've got more great things coming your way and twenty twenty two so I really hope you stick with us for the rest of this episode we're going to go through some highlights of twenty twenty one we hit the ground running and January with two fascinating discussions with filmmaker Justin McAleese and urban planner missed office Shareef was both in different ways talking about storytelling hopefully when you get on sat a lot of your decisions are already made because you've made them with the producer the director or the writer whoever happens to be in your you know what you're trying to accomplish and I mean really that's what it comes down to it's not like oh what do I want to do in this situation that's like very forced tear sort of concept you want to be like what serves the story what will help the director accomplished the most amount of information in the least amount of time it really that's what you're trying to do David Fincher American director has a quote you know like basically my job as directors deciding what information to give out when and that's really what directing is about and and by proxy that's what cinematography is about is putting people with a sense of what the context is what the vital information about a frame is in where to leave their eyes and how to feel about it so consciously without even attempting to tell them why do you feel about a certain way with the actors of the dialogue or the action or any of that stuff just like you know one second and you're like oh I get what this is when when I was young and now may bind to hold but anyway so I I'm listening to Ted talk on YouTube I was very inspired by that and it what makes it Ted talks special is the way they tell the story it's not like a lecturing university or a TV program that's why it's so special and I was like okay but how about mixing this kind of story is and then the plot casting and urban planning and also L. like after work are you doing I am part of statics Stockholm team and what we do is like I do content researching medical select co coaching people how they talk and giving feedback about their speech I was trying to combine that not makes a boring lecture and not to like sort of stand up comedy or something you know I want something like as a how white would love to listen to we all know that's it why we like TV shows and seriousness as a storytelling like it's art and culture is about storytelling so I wanted to do with the podcast says something like this like this format is not going to be like a feeling that you're in the police station like a question and answer you know like okay what's your name what do you do what's your project because there are many puts us like this and when you hear when you listen to them you you feel sometimes bad for the kids to be back home but give him some time to briefing notes express himself or something like this so I decided and I tried my best to that leave the platform open to the guest because it's not like Mustafa sherry fair podcast it's urbanistic out and ideal for many suggest that people are the storytellers because I'm listening to them and learning I can start my own show and talk but today most urbanised case listening and learning because this is the goal every guest is the storyteller I just leave them to talk just like how you doing now like you just you know leave the flow and that's always a good flow when you give people the the freedom to express themselves and always I don like control so much for the questions just like a main questions and then see what happened because in the end what comes from heart ghost others people's hearts so it says that there is like it and aim why I say the guess is a storyteller because the format of the ports gas is a kind of story to inspire us because the aim in the end it's about us getting inspired by people and hopefully we transform this inspiration to actual action in our offices when we really work with the projects in February I had the great pleasure of connecting with artists and performers Shay Donovan hello we got into some tough topics there was a lot of joy and positivity and her approach to working online during Oct nine part of my philosophy a little bit here has been to kind of resist adapting existing work to the digital space which I see a lot of people do beautifully and I think there's a need for that and that's a great way to exercise practice that that's your you know what you're feeling called to do but I think for me what I've been enjoys creating work specifically within these restrictions like being very intentional about embrace those restrictions and those obstacles and maybe mine them for a different way of making work rather than trying to adapt my normal practice within the constraints of the digital space I've been enjoying creating collaborating in new ways just in fun March was a bumper Munson database three fantastic episodes as well as celebrating the podcasts third anniversary with a special offer on P. Treon and freshening up the branding I had a great time talking with artist Clinton Kirkpatrick then producer towards MMN archer Katrina Michaels I'm production manager tab appeared safe from all duties entertainment followed by filmmakers large hand rakes and Nissan R. A. can here's Clinton toss could train at Debra Larson Nissan talking about creating characters and world building yes it's kind of like for me you know there is a lot of I realized a lot of hard storytelling and even one during the line of my research and my own destinations like all right Bach to your soul G. S. and then within the solar cheap what creation myths are I'm actually in the process of investigating various creation myths that have existed throughout human history in all different cultures what I'm doing is I'm checking pieces of the box you know whether it is modern day creation mess or Egyptian creation myths or whatever creation method is misty slow characters to come into my work I've read this creation myth recently where you these logs all from the sky and they create this ball you marshy area and then from this the first Youmans cute today I'm just like this is the right way you know it is the heart of storytelling heart arts for me that is my work is people look at my work and I'm like what is not or your moderator I listen to it all over the years really care either but it's like I listen to it all but I always think if you take the time any artist we have to see what they're doing to walk to invest it up but certainly for me when you start to investigate what might work as smaller practices there is a whole lot where you know there's a whole lot of world's arms you know hello world see arms there's a lot more still to come you know when we created this to really give it that immersive experience we asked all of our performers not only bring their characters to life but bring their characters to reality in the fact that we asked for Facebook pages to be created or Instagram accounts or linked in or you know we wanted to give them an online presence that our audience could go and find these characters in the real world each of their characters has a website that is dedicated to their characters professional backstory so for those audience members that want to really go down the rabbit hole to really explore their opportunities to find hints of these characters living in the on the internet so and I know between you've got some fun stories of guests that have reached out to you but I want you to speak if you can the creation process of trying to help build this character not just when you are on stage for that hour and a half but that lives in the real world I mean it was a fascinating experience to me because I am used to the rub us %HESITATION for instructing my character based on the clues in the tax and healing back to the technical in this case I'm creating the taxed the text is nearing it's it's very it's a flip of that kind of process but the exciting thing about being engaged in that creation is that you know the material so well my carrot so what's in the box and I can rattle off the drinks menu and like you know when in doubt to give extra Fulda to rely on and I have a lot of fun my car is a mystery themes box so I got to come up with the most terribly punny names such as the George all Mancini on the picture of Dorian gray Bruce Rankin steam %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION bill and I have so much fun and so then I can make a game throughout the show all kind of assigning a signature cocktail to aghast and you know that he's here a lot had to go back to you it's fun and it's it is interesting having online presence with the character of I've had people reach out to me through my character my keys Instagram and I think Jim would leave like they think I am ninety there are elements of me he and Maggie had but I've not bought Tenda musician on the lot I got but it's it but it's really like someone was asking when my next gig was and I was like I mean but we've actually from my apartment that that okay it's funny how it's fabulous it's state like how much they invested in the lead in the wild and I think having those clients to you you know we have like will also %HESITATION connected on social media and things and having this carrot to how those elements as well grounds %HESITATION as a human one of the videos of my characters Instagram is me playing accordion and I haven't you know people reach out to me asking about the accordion which I will always happily talk about you know it's a great way to connect and %HESITATION I find like I did it creates another layer of emotion about it integrates in that technology even beyond the shot we had a really robust writing team when you're first coming up with this I mean we all kind of sat around a table are set into meetings just trying to like nail down the concept nail down the story you know we had thirty plot points that came and went and then the amount of research we have an entire told that talks about all of these libraries these historical libraries that are actual actual places you know they had actual significance in history and we had to pull all of that material just so that we could get back home to the performers so that when they had that fodder to keep pulling from as well but we didn't you know Todd night we we didn't just great this it was such a collaborative effort we were getting materials every day I remember you know our writing team would send us a draft of one scene it while at the same time somebody would send me a draft a character you know like Katrina would send me at the bar menu you know and then the next day somebody else send me a song I think between even wrote an entire song it had a clue it fell by the wayside as we change the gameplay my hustle but I once long and then there's another song that carries with links to another one who's a history teacher %HESITATION and I needed to see that was a pneumonic device about the toll limit and I up it's working credible it's all about last so it's gonna be talking I will I will pay you know and during the pandemic which is been such a time of you know we've all had to go inside of our bubble right a lot of us were missing that creative outlet so I think that pulling in all of these performers and what not to and allowed everybody to find a quick creative outlet in a time where were all very frustrated because we can't live our not our lives as normally as we want right so I don't even think we asked people with some of the stuff that got created you know I just said Hey could you have a little ditty because I think that Maggie you know I think a tree to your character and this other character they know each other and they went to school together or something and next day I have a page long twelve verses of the Ptolemaic empire you know so like it really gave us all a chance to be really creative you know and push the boundaries of how can we keep telling stories in a new imagine of way and just make everybody laughs because everything is so twenty twenty right then we did this D. I. Y. A. thing again with a little more budget this time via %HESITATION worked for an acting school we worked with their students on a movie together based on on their character vicious because we your last and me we are also from the acting department so we could work with that and we are making films we could work with that so the second movie with the together %HESITATION was also on many many festivals and was %HESITATION sorry how do you say and that his English is better than it was discovered it was discovered from a release Emmons and you have to write it really is %HESITATION %HESITATION yes get released in the U. S. yes it's behind bars yeah the Blu ray yes SRS and I'm also I was really proud of that and really happy about it the second movie is about seven girls in the pharmacy and then maybe %HESITATION cherished florist so it's it's kind of fantastical but very very subtle and it was the first time for us that we've worked with a non sambal and those were seven girls who were like in their twenties early twenties early twenties they were just finishing drama school not so easy but it was fun and it was also it for us we learned a lot to work with a big group I work very closely with the actors four of them M. when we were developing Leon I think and you said and I had just started hanging out again and I don't know I I was thinking about how to do a lo fi science fiction project that was still having it was still dreaming about getting into cinemas and making something that that woods translates to a wider audience so I was thinking about how how can I use John ready to do that that was on my mind and then I think we just had a really long conversation about death because that's the fun guy I am I basically just took that conversation which was really long and turned it into a script so that would be these two characters in that center which I think I because Nissan and Leon is not me but that would be a lot of the stuff in that that we had discussed that's how that sort of came about so so so I in that sense worked with Nissan to come up with it all and then %HESITATION for back it means and later permeates actually we started working with this acting school like Nissan said I was a teacher about and I get sort of bored with teaching acting and not doing anything so I started developing characters with the students I had originally planned this was Nissan's idea to to make short films with them so they could use that all the demo reels and and in case of the beckons group we quickly realized all right this is not the short film this is possibly a future and %HESITATION yeah I mean they came up with that characters had different exercises to improvise and to come up with characters intuitively plus with characters that would fit them and would be what they would need in the demo rear to %HESITATION and then what I would have them improvise with each other and come up with scenes and then slowly we would all see all right this is a possible setting like all the characters you came up with would probably do community service at some point they're all pretty antisocial and then we would support the characters and situations together and see how do these incorrect and then we would think all right you too make an interesting committed you'll so let's think about that and I think we had half a year it was really luxurious and our kids bed hobby yelp of just playing around and then I would go and they have seen all the stuff they would have come up with themselves and then I would just read the script according to that and %HESITATION mid was more compressed with the next thing we did with that school with over many ex but it's really similar to it then we may do a web series together also called the acting students we worked a lot with that school to find out projects where we would have them improvise all the dialogue on sets and I would just go okay now that thing you said was funny do that again so yeah from this very close work with the actress the characters and I look I think I mean I like that and I like the results yeah me too we got musical in April with host of the world fusion show Derek Jordan and me session down he's he talked about modeling Siri and lasts an ideal locked on circumstances we used to do live improvisations when I was working at B. C. T. V. N. properly but because the lock down it's been closed so we've done various workarounds one is that I will get my artists to record a solo video of them playing and then I will basically play along with that and try to pretend that's life sometimes well depending on how good I'm able to do that you would think it is live a lot of the times most the time see I seem to be able to pull that off but now that we're in lockdown mode I stopped doing the live or this kind of improvisation over top with her video the new format that I'm using is just taking pre recorded videos from my casts %HESITATION and that's been the last few shows just because I wanted to keep the show going I felt it was more important to keep the show going so I'm not doing a live music right now but we'll get back to it I mean things will open up again we'll be able to do that again but we have great audio engineer and we have three cameras at BCTV so its quality is very high somewhat limited now more at my soon calls but it's still fun and it's still I get to showcase these fantastic artists and I feel like the workaround is better than not doing the show it also I'm just trying to keep everything going forward what has your lock sign experience pain as a musician well in this league panic those laws my money is gone for more than a day most welcome and I'm still going to a new routine so I thought well this is a fun clothes look on as the %HESITATION I have the rest of my life %HESITATION gig of the form and %HESITATION you know we'll be doing it when I'm eighty the way in the out to the local public realm panicking so you take him two years out three years out even I've seen it all but in the grand scheme of things is not nothing too big so I thought well a mother trying you last time I have to try to be as productive as I can be and %HESITATION flex new muscles reading when you do a loss against you and you end up just being all of heart and soul of %HESITATION during the same thing all the time is is so can be very relentless off from twenty three I've done lot tunings here pretty much solid for the past ten years so that's my target I'm sorry it's good to kind of step wife not really in the cry of them wrote music and talking to people %HESITATION AA or podcasts and training people is good you can't convert them selves in in a frying pan lot harder and musician or filmmaker will put costs social media personal really bubble as things went quiet people that is very cold for what you do not tell you what you should be creative and try and log me off my music but I see a above that mediates its to me to be cry if it's an issue of free lost all lock and navigate myself that's more important to me they're not you play music as much as I love playing music well hello I lost all the Arkham controlling BB king mackerel basically nothing my strife people strive for that because it all has no point being in a high jump playing music well %HESITATION on paper they sound amazing but the end of the day you're welcome to somebody else in your control involvement %HESITATION which is always good we went stateside in may with a fabulous catch up with my old pal from queen's university Belfast Dr Gary Rhodes and my new friends fellow arts podcaster Neeson rocklands can you remind me so happily of my arrival in Ireland but also so I try to be unflappable that's impossible and one of the spookiest moments and not a horror film spooky but I guess you'd say nervous moments was when I walked in to teach that course because I felt a little out of place not only is it immigrate myself and living in another country for the first time but I felt I felt a little %HESITATION I would never want to be seen presumptuous in teaching a course on Irish cinema in Ireland I had taught Irish semi actually America previous a couple of times what I ate that was a bit nervous actually going in to teach all of you because I thought gosh I feel ill at ease real ill informed maybe you know to take all that long since as an American and in Belfast what I suppose my interest would be two fold in and one I think it started with horror and they're certainly these tremendous connections between horror and Ireland Irish literature Irish folklore from obviously the bean she threw a film I saw and I I don't think a lot of Irish film scholars I don't know that any of never really talked about it much but when I was ten twelve years old I I was in love with horror movies I was also in love with Francis Ford Coppola who directed the godfather films in Apocalypse Now and early in his career he had made a film called dementia thirteen race early nineteen sixties and it was a gothic horror story set in Ireland it was actually shot in Ireland and you know it's readily available on YouTube it's rather well known film in terms of cold blood studies because it was basically a second film but I think Irish film studies it's completely unknown connections go deeper I mean stoker was Anglo Irish they're such a great tradition of Irish gothic novels and as I grew my interest in horror I grew in my interest at heart literature as well as horror films so there's all these fantastic connections and Irish horror stories on film but the other thing to happen to me when I was a teenager was by about the age of thirteen and of course you know I grew up in the state of Oklahoma I grew up in a town that I will in American terms certainly most mmhm we probably consider small town twenty five thousand people I grew up in I guess I'm trying to think of the the best way to say it but it probably a and is a native American everything you know kind of a masculine type culture in terms or that parameters and so John Huston's films spoke to me greatly as a teenager his films like the Maltese falcon an African queen and these films with Humphrey Bogart who was one of the great cinema tough guys and you know his later films like the man who would be king with Sean Connery and Michael Caine and you know you can kind of see probably quickly understand maybe or or see that you know kind of okay a lot of his films in his life %HESITATION I became fast about Houston's life he was quite an explorer and hunter and you know very masculine and all that very much human waves kind of hit me way of twentieth century American cinema and he was deeply interested in Irish literature and by the time I was in high school he was making his film the debt based on choice and there was a credible documentary film made about it Houston and showed the behind the scenes footage showed in talking at length this is before the kind of making of featurettes we know today by by a large number some examples but they weren't it was before DVD it was before that cottage industry so to speak so I S. I became entranced by the time I was sixteen and seventeen I became entranced with James Joyce and the dead when Houston said in his mind it was probably the greatest short story ever written in the English language that spoke volumes to me the film version he made which I found to be quite faithful I'm talking at length for question and now maybe wearing what but my interest came from these different angles from horror as well as Joyce and then about that same time Beckett because I was also one of my other favorites as a teenager was a Buster Keaton and Samuel Beckett had made keeping film yeah you know later in king's life of course and and a kind of although guard film and I was I was also getting in transfer you know it's easy to romanticize thing when you're a teenager and I you know the passion for it all and I was and I was getting interested in basket because of then his work with Keaton and I was particularly intrigued because Kevin brown will have made this incredible documentary about Keaton and had forty two Keaton's saying you know you didn't even understand the film he made with that you know which I think yes he's one of the yeah exactly here is what the genius filmmakers in my mind he he said he didn't quite understand it but he liked packet and everything so I was coming in Ireland for all these different directions to conclude I would say that in the night you know in the nineteen nineties America really when their kids always had this love affair with Ireland is regrettable exceptions during some immigration periods baby in the nineteenth century and so forth but there's a lot of love affairs in in the later twentieth century certainly from you know everybody you know celebrating St Patrick's day to the nineties when the commitments particularly the film version you too there was a particular love affair with I mean it happened different times before in the sixties I think with JFK for a lot of people but in the nineties it was like it was Neil Jordan and Jim Sheridan's films were exploding onto the scene not my left footed one you know at the academy award and Chris I was graduating from high school and about to start university right at that moment then there's you too and I particularly fell in love like I heard it on the radio and I was driving I mean I remember the moment so clearly I was driving down I. forty in Oklahoma City are your state that runs around a lot of America and I'm burning down the highway in an old car the only one I could afford at the time I'm burning on the highway and this voice comes on the radio this ban what I didn't know the name and I had to ask a friend later that day who is singing this and it was the cranberry so you're gonna set but you know I heard including that kind of Irish weighed in at the end of the song which went from the Irish but meeting pop music even more Irish sound at the end of it just seem to speak to me in ways and again as a more romantic young person a romantic maybe more the German sense of that term my great grandfather was from Ireland scored so on Cherokee and mainly that but I'm you know I have a McCord whose family was actually from the north of Ireland even America from Cork and I had many once is a little tiny child very memories on more work well on all of that and so I had that connection to Ireland as well so forgive this long biography ladies that I fell in love with this and then I fell in love with an Irish woman who was in America and all roads lead you know what I had to leave but I had to leave and it was this tremendous love affair I cannot tell you how achingly I miss Carrickfergus one of my favorite places how much I've missed the Belfast city centre the people there there's so many Dunluce there were so many places I like to go and go repeatedly I just unending love affair there's nothing ever wrong with having back position with that stuff if you're not judging the culture around you then you're just being ignorant to whatever's going on and being ignorant not understand the culture is not going to nourish you as someone that appreciates the culture and you're being a producer like you know if you're going to make content you know make sure you make it was a good purpose I mean if you think you're producing the content these extra help culture one way or another %HESITATION by the stop you I think part of us being podcast assisting our podcast is preserving the cultural little bit so the way we're sort of helping with people understanding and analyzing the culture I'm sure you have it on several occasions I've gone back to like you know seeing how movies were like the fifties and sixties and seventies stuff and seeing the mentality that the world had then and see how different it is now well the stuff that we're making right now can you imagine what people you know twenty fifty a hundred years from now if they go back and find the stumble upon this L. as wow this is what their culture was like during this kind of situation and how much you wanna bet that like at least two or three generations from now people are gonna be curious on how people were during cove it there go back these podcasts and stuff be like wow this is how they got your cove it we talked about before but like you said it yourself would like the public access TV will you ever come back and see some of those old public access TV's and see just like how they did their stuff you know how they would set up their shows I get getting that look into like their realities and such you know like if we're watching like movies in the seventies some like that how much like the Cold War may have influence on the make certain movies and such like that's something that we're never going to experience but like as an analyst we can look back and how they're making movies in the seventies such realized okay this is how they got through the potential existential dread that they could die tomorrow from nuclear warfare going back to like the thirties and such seeing all those like the classic Looney Tunes and such are like the classic cartoons where they they influence are they inspire people hate you should go to war or you should help people you know it invest in the military in such as nail if you go back like that's how they got through the potential jet that they could be aerated by Germany tomorrow you know that's something to help them yeah as an analyst you're always going to be looking back and so we're making stuff right now that other analysts chemistry look back on then it's going to benefit society at the in the day Jan was all about creativity with artistically week absent a K. eight slayer one artwork and doctor Rabaa Mikhail I researcher with University College London's community covert project definitely so I mean I can't say you know it's it's always been enjoyable and definitely being able to have people to do it because of Hobbs you know the office and the spectrum what people saw knocking down its costs awful and you know I want to start selling at comic conventions that was a really difficult time because you get like really hot streaks up point and then it's like oh you know like I'm I'm just here to sell like my outlook on the effort you know for minimalism issue some people are just unfortunate very nice I think you know especially when you are on the PP should always want to encourage people to us I've always believed in my positive reinforcement opposition positive like pushing people you know like I'm always happy to criticize someone in a positive way if someone says tell me everything that's wrong with this also well we'll bill as long as you let me tell you what's wrong with it as well but yeah it is great and also in Leeds as well one of the amazing conventions I mean it's most target now but fall festival thought was I could not festival and that was one of the first proper conventions I want Sir I used to go like religious in a best friend of must win sisterhood and offered them as well and but I'll go on just look all the emission outlook connection with plan for like Olean although she's all these amazing comic out as far as criminal we need to do this when you know any upon this of them would call themselves such an amazing time G. situation out work I actually met should should a lovely woman called Valentina and she ended up I think I'm ever at fault double on the gun shows at work was so inspiring that was another Austin's been amazing to me Schendel designing my first ever thought it was she designed it for men gosh you're so lovely she's helped with my outlook as well and she thought about what she moved back to Italy I like I miss all the time which moved up to a million and she still bought a shirt she was like and it only shows the only on the phone so so when all of a sudden jaw crusher men's and basketball advise yeah I think I think it's really important personally I try to match all the also Paul I don't and never will I mean I myself to forget about all of my friends so I do not stray if Boston Celtic forget also it works my hooks yeah I think especially if you wanted to start out just dole so critical of yourself that's probably adversity given to myself even non if all the advice because people think that have to be perfect straight away in a society where we feel we have to do everything right the first time it's not all I'm sure to give an opponent diminishes and shows a lot of people produce all the mission on this quiet Walmington on the people really thought about working for the sometimes I don't like as much like so many people out there think oh gosh you know you really really good tomorrow you know so hi Kim imposter syndrome will be all see some of the actions that we've been doing with participants have been around people's experiences of lock down their experiences of pandemic their experiences may be accessing subsidized or experiencing loneliness or isolation or the anxiety that comes with the pandemic and expressing that through all forms sorry we've run a couple of very very interesting workshops the bathroom is run by somebody called Marana he works with us he is actually PhD student he's whacking on interventions with people with dementia and say she doesn't so very interesting things such as embroidery said the mindfulness that comes with android jury analysts say the find my skills and you know everything that comes with doing this very very intricate and still full think for a long period of time hello webshop was on collage and we looked at how we might be able to express our feelings food medium of college and denied that might involve looking at lots of old magazines and you know dissipate pad over things that you might have lying around and looking at maybe what the newspapers and thinking about thinking about white why you're picking them out and say you know when you see somebody's collection piece of paper they might have used to set in color they might be used to set some pictures that might be sets and what's to bring the picture together save it might look like a complete mess of the picture it might not be completely as that sixty correct it might look wonderful that's beside the point well the points of the clutch is is to look at that and think how does this reflect my experience and in looking at reflecting my experience how do I tend to talk about my expense had I frame my experience and if I can have this old narrative around the experience then maybe I might be able to address the issues that come up during the experience for example my college in particular I happen and I thought this is very very interesting I was thinking why are you doing this myself my clutch looked at that Meghan and Harry into G. and I picked up pictures of Meghan and Harry and for some reason I also picked out what's that what to do with the interview was around understanding and telling my side of the story and your family and these kinds of things and and and I'm picking these things out and thinking why I picked these things out maybe I'm thinking about my family maybe I'm thinking about my %HESITATION laid the I. eight projects myself well the way that I am talking about how I experienced things and when you look at these and then you look at %HESITATION everybody's colleges and you ask everybody to talk about the colors you can see some very very very interesting stories you know you have about people's experiences and rather than sitting down and doing a traditional interview with somebody which we might do in reception you know it might be very very structured when you got somebody to express their opinion through the medium of all his meeting the college you might get a lot more rich states if not you might get a lot more interesting data from that goal you might get more of a glimpse of the passage rather than excessive structured ons is that they might want to tell you just to tell you save we won these elections just for that practice to understand how people have been experiencing quite a bit and that's one of the things that we've been doing is part of that committee got the project we will say it does not focus groups of people so we've spoken G. as well because they subscribe as in people that work in the community %HESITATION whacking intoxication and community people lacking in that close our teas and social activists and teachers to Austin about well what do you think of the various constipation what can we do to make these things much more accessible for people with what do you think of the other issues around what's happening you know on these patients stuff yeah and as well as that would diagnoses like traditional Quincy black which we have to take we headed back to the states in July for excellent conversations with Dr Charlie hole and palm Munter to talk about their newly published pics funny rules and feeding feed him what I would just really you know like to thank you again for giving me a chance to talk about my mom and to really promote the family rules book just so it's so important to those of us who have been care givers with people who suffered with Alzheimer's and dementia I understand that it's not easy in a row to be on we have to find ways we all have to find our own ways to get those memories back we know that our loved ones are not going to remember them no matter how much we want them to have moments when they'll remember them but they won't be the same and of those memories when they're stolen from you find a way to get them back in this was just my way of giving those memories back to my my children my grandchildren my brother and his family a way for them to kind of remember %HESITATION you know Graham on the way in which they wouldn't remember her normally yes and so now when you see and hear Fanny rules you'll know that I'm talking about my mom well when the power if you think about it I mean they're such a great strong you know conversation about that is the fact that here we have an individual with a twelfth grade U. S. education %HESITATION which means no college no formal education beyond that who is wise beyond her years I mean things that she would tell me one of those conversations that she would tell me is about being mediocre she says don't be mediocre don't be lukewarm just want to be hot you want to be called she said because mediocre is just a block and it just settles for whatever and so I took that message and I think crafted into this one and it's that mediocre settles to the bottom and complains about the view and I never wanted to be a person who complained about the view I wanted to celebrate the view and so she would also tell me that I could be anything I wanted to be so if you want to understand how I can actually move from this or town in West Virginia and I actually received two post graduate degrees end up with a PhD you know all of this is because the fact that this woman said I can be whatever I wanted to be but whatever I wanted to be be the best of it that I can't and she didn't put any parameters on it she said if you want to be a janitor you want to sweep floors she said that be the best floor sweeper there AS and Fannie told me that I needed to clean in the corners because she said it could floor sweeper will clean the corners because anybody can sweep in the middle %HESITATION I've been a feminist since I was about eight and try to get girls and the little league that was impossible back then so I'm hoping that it will ring that bell loudly this is what we do to women and what we've always done it women in this business and we need to rethink that %HESITATION because it's not worth it no people shelf life it shouldn't be a matter of shelf life it should be a matter of what they can contribute and for how long my publicist you telling me the lot of the people who are reviewing it are women so I would guess that's the natural audience I mean the subtitle is women of a certain age in Hollywood but I think anyone who is curious about how things work you don't have to be a film historian to be curious about how Harvey Weinstein could happen and video such an ogre for so many years how did he get away with that kill the casting couch she goes all the way back home it was on a normal accepted event info woman wanted to be up on that screen triggered a light on the couch first it was just %HESITATION unfortunately and given I don't know that that's true anymore I don't think it is certainly there are rules predators out there but it's not as widespread as it once was and I think anybody who cares about the issue will be curious about the stores at least I hope so it was fun to write because of the feminist background I I'll say that because I was a clinical psychologist for so many years I felt that I could get inside their heads and give the reader %HESITATION some idea about how women think about these things how they process that kind of a precedence and disappointment %HESITATION barrel aging process itself you know if we know some of them did pretty well without I think the strength of my writing is always the internal dialogue it's not so much what happens is how the the woman processes the information and that was extremely fun to write because I think I know more about that probably than anything having been in practice so many years I took some time off in August and released some back up material while I was away from the computer June and July were really busy with recordings and normal service resumed with guests focusing on positivity and creativity respectively Dominic Sam and Daniel Hass hi Michelle younger generation because I'm pretty all right now I'm I'm around forty rise hotels and I can see people young so things like that so that's what I want to say and I want to tell people of course is not good to hear it sometimes the younger people feel like it's that nagging your nagging me right now I'm gonna want to bring it out it either more reality form that this things that's happened it happens to everyone so I want to talk about it happens to everyone we cannot hide it we can we have to break break through the wall and share it the man is difficult for me like for example it's hard for me to show my feelings to my wife sometimes she said you know you don't hold my hands anymore than that %HESITATION why don't I hold my hold on the hold is in well I don't know why it's just it's not like I'm I'm a touchy feely kind of guy you know it's hard to open up sometimes so doing this part because actually helped me as well because I feel like if I do good out there good will come back if I motivate people I will motivate myself as well just like there was a a youtuber dive was watching the other day he told us he said everyone has the same amount of time in the week what we do in that time brings a success %HESITATION differs between different people so if I wake up in the morning the first thing I do is I look at myself on and go to Instagram or whatever instead I could have used that if you know a few seconds and morning when I wake up look in the mirror and say I'm gonna do well today so in that actually brings a little bill impact to your own life and two into anyone's life right or if you're if you're a kid and you in the house if you wake up in the morning instead of going down there say Hey mom what's for breakfast you could say Hey mom good morning right Houston well things like that I mean there's just one tiny thing that can actually bright as a person's life but if my kid if you wake up the monies that had that good morning %HESITATION I feel good you know I feel good and not not a whole good but still good right in just one step up on once they would build upon upon just one tiny happen as a but not happen this eventually I feel like eventually everything will fall into place and everything will picks up from there see details like this the seven habits habits it's been an interesting Sir journey for man and not some space because like I said it was really my my good friend do is a lot more in depth with film I've always grown up watching films and really enjoying cinema but for me it was wasn't something I really thought about getting into what was interesting was I feel like what I sort of looked back and found with everything is that for me personally I think that the storytelling aspect is really where I feel like I've always had the most deaths and success wins but I've always kind of struggled with the transition from page to screen as far as like visualizing what angle is to use and constraining myself to like okay fine but the tripod here with this sort of lands like this is a result I'm going to get I can't do it in my head so %HESITATION you know for a long time I I really was telling myself okay you know I really wanna do writing and directing and I can take on both but with the project that I did in twenty eighteen I really found that you know while I can do it and I can make it happen I feel like it's better for me to have the right people by my side that can actually translate what I'm writing better than even I feel like I can and again maybe that some kind of like weird mental hurdle which in ten years I'll figure out that like it's just me serve protecting myself from actually making the films as a director myself but at least at this stage in my life I'm sort of feeling like where I need to go with things is finding really good directors who can translate the writing and the way in which I can write the writing if that makes sense it's one of those things were as I'm writing something I only see it as kind of a stage play where is like everything just kind of a flat canvas and it's all sort of coming to life around me but I'm not seeing like you know okay when this person's talking like this if if I have this sort of camera movement or something like that none of that enters into my mind even the least bit I think with you know as time's gone on I just sort of made that mental jump so it's been nice because as I look back on everything a lot of the films that I've made or worked on you know I was either more is like as co directors somebody that was there just one set hoping things go smoothly you know maybe more as a producer or something like that and there's always been in my mind the best films that I've made with a good team and not one of those things where you know when I tried to make on I feel like they work and I feel like they have a good message to them but as far as how everything comes out on the screen there's not a lot of refinement you know I feel like I'm more of this let's just have a camera free flowing and stuff like that and that always just doesn't work as fast as it could for something that's just more visualized by someone who can make that transition more than I can in September %HESITATION do you drama producer boleh more help to celebrate our one hundredth episode entry nerd style with fascinating stories about adopting his father's literary works while also contributing to the advancement sent audio technologies and modes of production we then heard from Dr Fiona noble about her researching contemporary Spanish cinema I'm talking about alternative approaches to the academic so they I have to say mystically lucky in that I'm pretty good with the theory of things but not so good with the practice and so I have gained producer editor who is amazing %HESITATION figure out ways of executing the crazy ideas that I come up with and I had his passed away a few years ago but I have this wonderful wonderful engineer what you believe yourself to a stop not only was he triggered recordings but he could just build devices that hi imagine during you need to have the particular thing that we were talking about do you go back so I like working in stereo I like doing as much with the stereo space as I possibly can one of the hardest things was to figure you know do I want to block actors around in the stereo spaced and then somehow walk the production or the creation of sound effects in some way that tracks them and when you put all this stuff in the same recording board line up and sound like it's the same spot this isn't very difficult to do of course the more you utilize the stereo space the more difficult it is and I want to get really clean dialogue tracks I like to not worry about anything but the voices when I'm in the studio that's the only thing I want to deal with I record all my voice is moderate but I need a visual tracks they can be hand around the stereo proceeding on waste with both panting you know so panning and volume and a little bit of reverb to create you know are they from the back of a culture to use things like that but then how to make the sound effects follow rob so I was talking to Howard our engineer and there's some kind of a joke it's only funny to engineers I don't really understand it but they would make this joke about it monophonic Kampot meeting some sometimes you would cancel liberal left to right which of course you can't do it I had heard him say that a couple of times and I was like how hard we've worked with MS technology which I'll explain in a second I want you to build me a monophonic camp and so she did the way you talk about three months later he came back with more acts okay so this is the pattern and over here we've got one of the lot one of the dogs is the volume which is you know basically does your in and out of this does your back and forth and okay now explain how this thing works yeah that's such a good question I think that was one of the key points that came back for and I'd submit the first draft of the manuscript to the publisher is and the talks about four I needed to do to prove that threat and the idea of subversive Spanish cinema city the big not that it wasn't there but that you know just by adding things like and the conclusions each chapter unexploded back you can prove that threads together and the artists such readers on their anonymous obviously they are such pertinent questions that really made me think about the significance of the title and how it related to what I was talking about it because I think if you look at the carcass of material for the big and the filling car pass it probably looks quite mainstream in some ways I'm not necessarily looking hot experimental filmmaking in Spain that's not part of what that be extinct there's some really interesting things happening in kind of alternative cinematic practice says worst filmmaking practice in Spain especially kind of post economic crisis that's not my forte told us not something I'm particularly knowledgeable back to somebody like Rebecca north send you she has the blog nobody knows entity where she talks about Spanish cinema I don't know how active she is barking at the minute she's from the northeast actually and I don't know if you've ever come across %HESITATION but she's a really knowledgeable person I buy alternatives Spanish cinema practices that's not what this because it's not a private kind of we cannot what's happening with the mainstream if that makes sense it's more about looking hot you know the key players all Spanish cinema there are some films in there that are less well known there are some filmmakers you know the likes of petrol model of our who is probably you know the most well known Spanish filmmaker certainly in the U. K. ET bought depict deals rather with subversive nests within those kind of mainstream contacts and looking out hi %HESITATION the positional filmmakers we're working under Franco's the likes of Carlos Salazar or at least customer Langat London about a name he's the uncle off have yet course people like them your last identifying filmmaker is under Frankel working June the dictatorship shooting about a strict censorship conditions that there were at the time so it's looking at those kind of precursors to what's happening in contemporary manifestations of performance and that presentations of performance in Kentucky sponsor and kind of seeing the offense comes through you from those oppositional filmmakers into the present day and what that looks like and how you can become %HESITATION means all speaking out against the common additives or the dominant ideas in society October so a reunion with merry at Spiro sketchy I previously spoke today at the twenty eighteen late shows this time we discussed her ad member French performance landing I also reached out to other friends of artist Sally match and a bunch of us recorded memories of Sally for an episode released ahead of commemorative events marking the first anniversary of her death in case you missed the hidden track at the end well here southeast coast companion and collaborator Tom Jennings reciting his first the North Sea fought in a way I found it in some ways liberating because I'm going to have number %HESITATION while I'm on an island in the Atlantic and that's why %HESITATION that and and the hard to get my head around them has but also very exciting I've got somebody producing will be in Africa during the time of the production and it's and my director is in Ireland it's just kind of also beautiful that I'm someone who's very international and I've traveled a lot and I have friends all over the world for me it's always been about you know other time zones and languages etcetera so it feels like the world is kind of stepped up to accepting that is more common than normal in every day and that excites me because it's just really creating that feeling of collectivity globally and %HESITATION I personally love that so in a way it is deliberating the strike while B. R. R. your chili but streaming islands you they can go worldwide and research that I think is a worldwide competition and %HESITATION we're having an yes it's exciting it's exciting to have that but I performed live for the first time the other week here on the island we had a little open Mike at the cafe and actually there's a lot of performers on the Simons strangely enough and it's the first time I'd perform live the new year and a half last time was in Newcastle actually enough and he was just so exciting for everyone just like all you know we have been sharing this moment an audience it's been difficult yet challenging but if we can find a way to have a balance in the future it's kind of interesting it does open up a lot of possibilities I know there's a lot of companies have in the states and in other countries you know been working digitally already for years they were kind of ahead of the game a little bit if you will yeah it's an interesting chance yet like I'm saying I think it's about the balance I want it all to go online forever now they really don't but how can we find a way to you know make a hybrid form or medium it's interesting we're definitely it's been a learning curve imagine a moderate offshore breeze when the tide begins to wane with the lapping of tiny waves blown back against the grain battles in the sun crackle as they shift this way and that while you stroll along the shoreline with Sally chewing the North Sea fast in November I never did like this museum and Stacy asked McKenzie frankly and caught up with Brandon Conley talking about detecting world a cheese your own adventure calendar that we have very much enjoyed this month's I do really enjoy this topic I like talking about the British Museum because truthfully I have a love hate relationship with that because the very first time I got to visit the British Museum was in the summer of twenty eighteen so I had not yet finished my degree I was the summer before my senior year of budding anthropologist just like jumping in my seat waiting in line to get into the British Museum because it is you're absolutely right this global institution where you can see thousands of years of human culture across the world in one place started walking through and seeing all of the things and wondering where they came from and how they came to be into that institution and learning more about the ways in which those objects were acquired and then some of the contentions regarding the fact that a lot of those objects have been requested to be formally returned and subsequently denied so the more I learned the more that the magic was kind of stripped away from me so it's been really wonderful institution I absolutely believe that something like that should exist but at the same time yeah you have really big ethical questions that need to be answered and yes people do challenge me on this topic they will often say well especially in the case of the British Museum if they started giving things back they have to give everything back and then they have nothing left which is such an exaggeration and far from the truth but I think that certainly concessions do you need to be made very simply the start you told a few items you have in your infantry unless you go through the store you will lose on the choir of right and so the my simple level keeping a record of well I have a small lamb well I I you know I I'm carrying this style the other not to spoil it I need to objecting counted but you keep the title of those the next can influence the choices that are available to you at different points so for example if you got a big cocaine to come across a big gulp padlock you can unlock it and if you don't you can help so at the most basic level yes you're actually do a physical symptoms but there are other things you may wish to record and write down old drawl at various points finally in December I had a delightful time with the of the last of the Cinemalaya Neil's podcast and learn lows but life as a jobbing actor in the U. S. film and television industries from Kate H. anarchists yeah it's I mean it's funny you say it's like kind of like a research project which I mean that I think that's a perfect example of what it is because %HESITATION I went to school for history I'm a trained ademas historian because you know that's not my field and I want to sound too pretentious in there I'm not gonna call myself when the film historian but %HESITATION you know I did study anyway %HESITATION anyway you are to no sales the story no one but no I am I studied history went to school for history because as I said before was a lifelong passion and I really do think that film is a good way of introducing not exactly educating because obviously you know there's too much Hollywood stuff like the last tool which is in the army %HESITATION but now which is actually funny like to go on a limb that little tangent armor medieval representations of armor are better in the first half of the cinema rather than what is going on today unfortunately but I think it's a great way to really see what people are into and see what they're not into and then see how they can relate it back to our world tangy and how to understand what we're doing wrong or what we did do wrong in the past whether it be through art or social movements and how we can fix that today and I think through filmmaking that introduces a lot of topics that are can be often difficult and can really meet people not make people but can really make them feel comfortable enough to talk about those issues so all of it is being an open vessel so to be comedy to be drama and just really being open and so when you're open and you know your team is setting you up for these projects and you're going out for these projects and you're up and you're down and you're crying you're vulnerable you're happy in your court you're sad the most important thing is just to be true to your authentic self you have your bass line and then you have people you study with Susan Batson B. A. T. S. O. and she is an amazing book called truth she's doing virtual people can you drop ins for twenty dollars a day Monday through Friday she has a lot of international people who study with her she's Nicole Kidman's acting coach for over twenty years you'll have been noticed I sure Madonna %HESITATION brushy coach is all these people for their films so being trained by the crown telegram right so you can be trained at what level and and it's like the best investment you're gonna make is in yourself with your time to follow the the food you eat the coaches you study with the podcast you listen to the people we associate with so all of that goes hand in hand with the characters I choose because based on life it's not just linear and I could tap into different experiences that I personally experience or that I've observed to being a great observer I love observing and so something directly hasn't happened to me I can with Google you can research it you can watch some like minded movies you can check out the director projects that they did a part for T. that's for films or TV shows you know the tone of the show grey's anatomy it's always sunny cold case you know the tone of the show you know the casting director like no other body work %HESITATION in there do great work you have to build a relationship with the casting director they keep bringing you when they like your work so if they want you on the show it's just a matter of time before it happens you just have to keep up and just show up and do great work and then make sure you're taking care of your body mind and spirit because they like I said they're very hand in hand with one another you know doing different characters is like it's always sunny it's like corky it's far sign in and they're like oh they like that then you can that's permission to play to take that a step further and discover where you can go when you get on set you've already done the preparation so everything I'm telling you studying coaching researching that's the tone of the show that's the preparation of the character before you show up when you get to set you already know your lines you already know your character and it's an opportunity to get out of your head and get more into your got into the intelligence of your body and to play and be professional because there's the takes a village and there's hundreds of people on set and especially now we want to be very mindful of staying within the parameters of everyone doing their job to make a party is you know the hair stylist like if they ask you your opinion cool but they're already communicating with directors and assistants and people and everyone has the domino effect of how they're showing up in everyone's doing their best so you know when you have the character you that's your ultimate time where you get to play and have a lot of fun well what a year it's been and it's because of you the listener supper still going and approaching four years of learning more and more of a different landscapes and audio visual cultures but I want you to tell me what have you enjoyed what would you like to hear more off and learn to fight and what might be missing that we haven't touched on yet and I know there's lots of topics that we haven't touched on and we're working our way Brian tape let me know by email to the audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com MSH eighty cultures part on any of the socials it's been a tree privilege to speak to so many interesting guests from such a diversity of backgrounds and I'm really looking forward to what twenty twenty to bring I'm always happy to hear from folks who'd like to cast on the show and I'll be back nagging at my artist friends to come speak to you because their class and she really need to know about them for night mind yourselves and catch you next time
hello you're very welcome to this episode of audio visual cultures the podcast explores different areas across the arts media and creative industries I'm Paul the bladder and state I am presenting C. I really energetic and insightful conversation with actor performer and podcaster Katie Chen knock S. I feel so privileged to talk to him later learned from her vast experience working in film and television and loads of other areas right there in LA and further afield like so many of S. hyphen watch and loads more television since he became more confined to your home the St RT twenty twenty and I from recognizing so many actors having recurring appearances sends remembering them some shows I lost in the nineteen nineties and two thousands Kitty has guest starred and hides supporting roles in a while surf productions the titles of which I'm sure you're going to be familiar with Katie talks candidly about her experiences and I learned so much from her up by a high you know works and I am so excited to be able to share that with you nine as ever huge hello and special sign keys here patrons over Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures it's because if you see an all year right there listening that we keep going and keep getting fantastic ass I Katie to learn from the shoes really gaining traction more and more people like Katie are getting in touch it's not just me hustling for casts people getting you're getting in touch and they wanna share what they know was piles which really brilliant to be able to hop up top for for people and I'm really really receptive to hearing from our listeners about what kinds of things he wants he Europe bites and what kind of people you want to hear from I really welcome suggestions on our socials and tear email all of thought is going to be below in the show notes for more ways to support the show and so let us know what you saying cans to find all the important links you'll need to check a kiddies reckon so shows to check out the show notes and you get everything you need for night I'm gonna pass over it to my conversation with Katie I'm sure you look at low tied up at a certain age adds Katie channel yes I am so thrilled to welcome you to the audio visual cultures thank you for being my guests today hi are you dating thank you Paul I'm so grateful to be here I love the name of your podcast yes yes I'm doing great I am in Los Angeles I'm so happy to be here I feel so invigorated for when I first came to Hollywood at the end of two thousand one it's the same standard G. and the same excitement except now I have two decades of a body of work so I'm all about sowing seeds and %HESITATION it's really beautiful because I'm in the moment of now of enjoying reap what you sell and the fruits of my labor and still being very young in my career and successful in my career but seeing it in a whole new way which is really really exciting well that's great to hear that so positive because I'm really hoping that myself so many listeners can really learn from all of your experience that you just mentioned so if you're happy Kitty it's clear from your profile and everything you just said she record crossed a lot of different areas you're beside an LA mostly he's done loads of stuff you make a call passcode she's all over the place which really encapsulates everything that you do as well in television and film and lots of different areas would you be happy C. give us a bit of an overview in your words to fight the sort of work that you do need to different areas of work that you date just step gives a better picture and then we'll get into some finer details sure so couple things that you just said about adding value to you and your listeners and then my podcast so I wanted to start my podcast eight years ago I don't know how to get on the train tracks now we're going to be in season four and I can take my two decades of experience and really pay it forward so with ethics morals and values with arts and entertainment with spirituality because they all go hand in hand because we're human beings and to be a great actor you know we get to a great listener and be in tune with our emotional beings and are the language of our body the intelligence of our body and we do that through the soul is through the heart in through feelings and the mind is very important and it's analytical and it's a tool so it's not everything you know so through education and mental health and breaking down things that the whole world has opened up to now specially what we've all gone through collectively I think we can have more understanding more compassion that really everyone's going through something and we don't and we all went through some stuff together but that was always happening but I think it's just more apparent now so what do we do with all that right so we're aware of it but we can apply it to the campus we can apply it to our craft we can apply it to %HESITATION voiceovers video games commercials animation you apply all those emotions which is an energy the good the bad the ugly everything in between and you put it on to the character you put the work into the character into the intention of the character so when I was a kid I wanted some wisdom I wanted someone leading me along the way when I was twelve I wanted to know things I was a seeker I remember yearning for that desire that information to notify highway and I remembered I was going to be that for others I didn't know the word podcasting back then I didn't know any of those things but along my journey I found out about podcasting I wanted to get on the train tracks and so now I am and I can pay it forward with that two decades of experience not to say Hey I'm right %HESITATION I'm wrong I could say Hey this is my experience this is what I experienced and what Madonna did what Mariah Carey did what everyone did all of Meryl Streep Reese Witherspoon what they did in their careers is done and I can look at their anchors and I can look at their successes and some other failures because people are being more open to those things out and I couldn't have it as a road map to leave me with my target anchor where I want to go however with technology social media and the twenty first century business is different we've evolved as human beings I'm not doing what someone did in the eighties like up we're not doing what someone did in the sixties or the fifties what can I do in the twenty first century and does not have it as my baseline with authentic to me as a human first and then as an artist and then you know go into the twenty first century and being able to hit it shift in scale pivot shift in scale so when I came here in two thousand one with my little girl dreams in my blueprint like I had my base of what I stood for what I wanted what I wanted to be a part of and then boom I worked with deniro Pacino Nicolas Cage the top thirty five filmmaker in the world Werner Herzog I was on minecraft story mode like Nancy Drew books they put him into you know a video game app and I ended up being Nancy drew's best friend in playing for other characters you know with these power house boss ladies out of Seattle who have her interactive and they have a bunch of other %HESITATION projects that they're involved in they brought Nancy drew back as tech later it was cool for female identifying humans to be involved in tact it wasn't just a male dominated gender thing so we're demystifying gender is right and what roles people's play I am really like grasping our head around and having a full understanding of what this means and I'm on the forefront of it all and I always have been on the pulse I've always been a seeker I've always been a person with that huge big white canvas and knowing the mark of it all the good bad the ugly but being able to jump out of the campus and look at it and let it cleanse itself as life dies and then be able to start a new and fresh right from an analytical perspective not emotional non attachment so I can serve my best self and the higher self for why I'm here for all of humanity so let's just start there it's got a lot to start with where do you get your energy from this amazing lives it's god's grace we all have it is is if we choose to be tapped into it or not and I'm definitely captain in a way from a very young age when I was twelve and wanting to be that seeker and knowing my purpose and I feel lake along the journey I got in stock in a lot of other people probably can identify my purpose with a purpose of Austin %HESITATION my purpose that up I think we're here we have also meant multiple purposes I don't think there's just one purpose there is great man that I saw along the way his name's not coming to me but he was like in his eighties or nineties and he was like so many people are so the user so in a rush to find their purpose but it's a discovery in its an unfolding on the journey to acknowledging to appreciate the purpose is that you may have so you may have been a two decade of innate desire to join your curiosity of what you want to do right I like to utilize my voice I like to show up here even if it's just you and me are if it's fifty million people and to be a positive inspirational and make an impact one person at a time and I'm a mac or a person some like Britney spears Taylor swift all over the place but how is that really going to happen on a micro level between you and I apologize and I'm gonna go leave my life and it's a transfer of energy and you're gonna go lead your life and I hope we had some kind of exchange in this lifetime where we made an impact and so for the person to ning and I hope that same thing for you as well that's why we watch movies that's why the video games we played whether we're conscious of it or not it feels good it's a feel good because it's a positive conscious thing and it's something I'm gonna teach my children one day or share with my family or my partner or is it it is a a pleasure words an addiction that's actually making me suffer more and it's actually feeding the beast within me that's not going to have me involved so we get to be mindful and track what's running our systems their systems and patterns running and what's beats are you feeding right so I always have the Hackett HJC K. hacked and be mindful like am I going to direct you where this is going to sell me or is this actually not the filming so that takes me to the projects I take on like my voice over agency crime telegram I just went out for this campaign like I go out for all these the biggest thing you can think of like top tier that's who I'm applying to because that's the ethics my morals and my values and that's what I strive and work towards and that's the bar that I set for myself and so we had to check in with the bars we set for ourselves and raise those bars and even raise it a little higher to go out of our stretch or look in and say Hey this bar is way too high I can't even obtain this goal which is a detriment and I went through how could I give people in the industry a chance or other people chance but I wasn't even giving myself a chance it was pretty difficult and that was something I got to learn and grow through and then you know you feel the guilt you feel the emotions you feel all those things but then what I do with those instead of just letting them sit there attached and not healing that I hold my own hand I say it's okay little K. I take all those emotions that was nasty from a family member are nasty from a relationship or nasty from whatever happened in the personal and I take all that and I'm like bro and I'm going to take it and I put it into the craft of acting so that's how it never goes wasted nothing is ever wasted anything anything that happens even on like the the the worst thing anything that happens it's never wasted it was supposed to be and it doesn't have to be right away there's some big trauma things that happen and sometimes someone will never be the voice and they can never see themselves being the voice of that which is okay and you don't have to be but you hold the space of knowing and we all go through different journeys but what do we do with that is that our choice is because it's our lives and works here and it's a gift that we're here some partially positive words there can't eat I mean as you mentioned you shared scenes with so many well known names and Hollywood's actors on direct shares you Farkas Werner Herzog which is incredible it's really exciting and I'd love to hear a bit more about your experience of being a supporting cast member and finding a character you know you've worked in quite a lot of TV shows as well so sings a cold case and CSI you know where you're you're maybe and for an episode and that's S. N. you know I'd love to hear the experience of the chopping actor tango sings Heidi pack up a character how do you make a character convincing IT work across these movies and then these drama series but then go into something like it's always sunny in Philadelphia you know how what's that like for you yeah I think he'll be here for on well said so all of it is being an open vessels so to be comedy to be drama and just really being open and so when you're open and you know your team is setting you up for these projects and you're going out for these projects and you're up and you're down and you're crying you're vulnerable you're happy in your court you're sad the most important thing is just to be true to your authentic self you have your bass line and then you have people you study with Susan Batson B. A. T. S. O. and has an amazing book called truth she's doing virtual people can you drop ins for twenty dollars a day Monday through Friday she has a lot of international people who study with her she's Nicole Kidman's acting coach for over twenty years you'll have been noticed I sure Madonna %HESITATION brushy coach is all these people for their films so being trained by the crown telegram right so you can be trained at what level and and it's like the best investment you're gonna make is in yourself with your time to follow the the food you eat the coaches you study with the podcast you listen to the people we associate with so all of that goes hand in hand with the characters I choose because based on life it's not just linear and I could tap into different experiences that I personally experience or that I've observed to being a great observer I love observing and so something directly hasn't happened to me I can with Google you can research it you can watch some like minded movies you can check out the director projects that they've been apart for T. that's for films or TV shows you know the tone of the show grey's anatomy it's always sunny cold case you know the tone of the show you know the casting director like no other body work %HESITATION in there do great work you have to build a relationship with the casting director they keep bringing when they like your work so if they want you on the show it's just a matter of time before it happens you just have to keep up and just show up and do great work and then make sure you're taking care of your body mind and spirit because they like I said they're very hand in hand with one another you know doing different characters is like it's always sunny it's like corky it's fine and and they're like oh they like that then you can that's permission to play to take that a step further and discover where you can go when you get on set you've already done the preparation so everything I'm telling you studying coaching researching that's the tone of the show that's the preparation of the character before you show up when you get to set you already know your lines you already know your character and it's an opportunity to get out of your head and get more into your got into the intelligence of your body and to play and be professional because there's the takes a village and there's hundreds of people on set and especially now we want to be very mindful of staying within the parameters of everyone doing their job to make a party is you know the hair stylist like if they ask you your opinion cool but they're already communicating with directors and assistants and people and everyone has the domino effect of how they're showing up in everyone's doing their best so you know when you have the character you that's your ultimate time where you get to play and have a lot of fun guest star roles are amazing because it's like I said it's a domino effect once you book one it's like oh she's on set in New Mexico now she's on site here okay we want to work on this %HESITATION she's working on this Sharon stone fifty seven Werner Herzog like the producer calls once a personally invite you to be a part of the valley tenant port of call New Orleans with Nicolas Cage and like I I'm like Joan Crawford in my hotel room like waiting for his call any calls and I'm just like jaw dropping these inviting and everything and from that moment of yes that was my moment of fantasy in play and I was just thinking about Nicholas cage and then I knew are seen together you know because like I I did the audition I met burner then I had and I had like a month to prepare so I was able to like really fantasize in play and and do those things leading up manifesting to the moment of meeting him and when I met him he was just like whoa like he was so taken aback because I was so prepared he is Nicholas cage so he serves people and I'm who I am so I showed up and I know who he is so I showed up and he was like whoa and I served him and like it was that transfer of energy like I needed an impact and I wanted him to always remember me and asked to have that and to this day people email me message me on social media talk to me like that movie was epic oh my god you with Nicolas Cage like people are just like going off like you stole that movie blah blah blah like it I remember on sat my friend Sam Pressman his %HESITATION family I met him on the set his family were the producers Pressman films they do a bunch of great films he told me you know %HESITATION Nicholas cage he he wanted the whole entire movie to shoot the gun to shoot the gun and the scene we did although it's in the beginning of the movie it's we shot it at the end of you know the twenty three shooting days however many shooting days it was and he was able Werner let him shoot the guns upper hand shooting that god was amazing and for me working with Nicholas cage was amazing so we both had something that we both collectively wanted for our characters which made it so impactful which is why so many people come to me all the time about that movie and they're just like it's just legendary you know but not only about that said in that movie all the preparation a manifestation of knowing who I am discovering who I am knowing how I start raise in a bar for myself higher than I can even reach because I wanted something bigger than I ever knew like we need to do that not dream big with had in our clouds but raise the bar and show up and get to work and work doesn't always have to be tough and hard and Yang Yang Yang do do do work human beings they can come through god's grace of yen and being gentle and being more relaxed than I am right now I'm a bit hyped up but they can be the opposite and I I definitely learned that the hard way most people do things not all say most people but they're just hustling %HESITATION they're dot dot dot dot so it's like you have your list of what you need to do do it but we can handle it with grace we can show up to a new place in a new way gentler with one another right with the male and female you know all genders yeah but lastly I want to say about what you just asked is %HESITATION it's really exciting bopping from one show to another but then it's like a lot of up and a lot of down which is very difficult and especially when you're auditioning a lot so now where I am in my career I wanted and I wanted it before but it didn't happen and what I want now again and I'm going until it happens is to be a household name so I want to be a household name so I'm not bopping around it yeah I can do different shows but instead of like getting up getting down getting up getting down and on to the next and you know getting the great paycheck I want to have a consistent show consistent money get loyal consistent fans buy a home on the beach have a family how the sustainable life have a beautiful career have a stable family because it can be a lot up and down and it's cool when you're kidding you're fifteen or twenty but now I'm at this stage in my life where it's like you know the up and downs it can be a motion only detrimental it can be so hard I I I can just start crying because I'm such an open vessel we are doing it on your own and you're doing it by yourself when you feel like you're all alone you know because it's your journey and no no one has same like journey stability is so important so it's important to have the emotional stability of our friendships and our partners even if they don't understand is that they hold space and they don't drag you down or have you explain yourself and then suck from your life force energy that it's exciting because it takes so much because you're not getting paid hourly to do this you know I mean it's a career it's a marathon at I. raditi empathize with stop precarity all that kind of life and %HESITATION I think that send a lot of industries but you know you hear a lot of factors like yourself saying that kind of thing you high top fade is you not knowing from one week or months the next if you're gonna have to work and I really do a selfie there %HESITATION I said styles in my life where I had thought as well %HESITATION and it's really really tough eve eve side a lot as well about you know how you're able to keep going and so you can keep your own well being your mental health and and everything and Jack and I mean it seems that certainly from nesting here podcast it seems like you've got an amazing team arranging as well so if you're doing on your own but it sounds like you've got incredible network of friends and I was wondering if he had thought to sell on the importance of Saudi birds of support networks and collaboration and those sorts of things you're right you're totally right exactly I have %HESITATION music partner Nikki Scorpio %HESITATION you know we started the sophisticated cycles it streaming everywhere we have a YouTube channel we met in twenty twelve so while he's been loyal to the bone and he's a very rare rare rare individual %HESITATION that I met Ali Sondra levy my producing partner on a trip in Nicaragua when I was with my sister and and twenty fourteen and %HESITATION by god's grace I said yes and I showed up and we may be became friends and we've been producing content for the last five years together as a collective with Nikki Scorpio so energetically that's there and I can call her and have a divine feminine female that I can call and ask questions to where before I would be more isolated to myself feeling like I'm doing it all alone but now I have the courage is Hey %HESITATION instead of just doing what I would normally Katie would do in the past before I had someone like Ali Sandra I'll call up and say Hey so it is really an Instagram is that this %HESITATION Hey this business person said this to me and then she has a different background and I admire and respect %HESITATION she's like oh that's nothing %HESITATION just block that person %HESITATION just give them option a B. or C. %HESITATION just tell him you're not interested if it's not gonna be desert you know this is your you know bass raider this is your you know these are your parameters and I'm like oh because she's just so like a sort of in that way and so she teaches me so I put around myself around people who I admire respect the choices they make the consistency of the quality things of their doing I would see a team of eighteen people my voice over team I'm with all the voices vox creme dela creme top five voice over agency in the world I have the acting agency in LA I've been acting agency in Atlanta I'm acting agency in New Mexico I have a management team in LA New Mexico during the pandemic I got a new management team then there in LA New Mexico during the pandemic I got a new onscreen union acting agency in New Mexico because Netflix did a deal there for ten years there's a lot of things being shot New Mexico so I amber and I'm represented in New York so I'm represented in all major markets everything self tape and self recording with the voice oversee can be anywhere in the sound quality pre studio you can be anywhere and record and just send in the auditions and they use source connect to book you so I have a team who sends me up for projects I just have to make sure I'm taking care of my personal health my instrument which is my voice because I'm a recall and every day recording artist podcasting voice overs music poetry so I need to make sure I'm taking care of my health because I have a team of eighteen people who call me and put me up for projects and you have twenty four hour notice sometimes you have twelve hour notice with voiceover sometimes you have in a rush an hour notice %HESITATION three hour notice and it's a turnaround so I need to be doing what I need to be doing to take care of myself so I can be prepared to show up because there are so many other people who will just show up in Philly and and take the spot you know any means %HESITATION we really need to take care of our body mind health and nurture our relationships some of the people but on my podcast she's all over the place I met Joey from the blind boys of Alabama is the president of the blind boys and they started you know late their gospel and they were holding their legendary they won so many Grammys and they've been in so many movies and they're amazing and you know he's been my friend since two thousand and four you know a lot when I met him at the Grammys and had I nurture these relationships I don't call people just when I want something when I'm thinking about them like Hey I was thinking about you how are you like it's a transfer of energy it's like a garden and you plant seeds you plant seeds and then every three months I take a break and I just rake away the duds and then I sell more seats and I look at the beautiful ones that are budding and I dated date weekly I check in and I need a water those I. water those and they grow and grow and they've been growing like I said in the beginning of the the show is you know you reap what you sow so I've been selling seeds since day one but since for my work environment for the workplace I've been sowing seeds when I came to Hollywood before I came to Hollywood in Michigan but you know the Hollywood lifestyle and work place was at the end of two thousand and one I started selling seats our network meet people go to IMDb everyone gave you business cards back then they don't now everything's digital which is cool but save the environment right one paper at a time but I would go home with a stack of from an event of fifty business cards and I would just go to IMDb I movie database and I would just type in the person and you could see okay they've done nothing died thrown away thrown away thrown away thrown away because they're lying to you they're saying %HESITATION I produces I direct this but they're just wanting to sleep with you pray and you take advantage of you she does that out those people then you look at the other people at all they're doing this movie they're doing this movie but they're like movies with like porn stars are there movies like scenes here movies so it's like that's not what I want for my I self that's how you know that I self and check in with the quality of the bar that you set for yourself of who you want to work with so I throw those away I want to be a part of those projects and then it's like oh okay this one George Clooney movie okay I'll keep this producer card I want to nurse that relationship it's not manipulative it's a smart business move because I see this vision for myself and I know my talent I can be an added value to your project let's create together so that's how we come to the mat each and every time how can I serve on minister by showing up and being the best me when I got when we first got on here you said oh my god look at all the energy I can offer that people want to be around that magnetic joyful energy because it's the infinite source however when you have it you just need to know how to channel it because it can be a lot for some people it can be too much and that's okay too well we're not made for everyone we're made to be us and we can align with who were gonna line with and we can't people please you can only truly be ourselves and people are like oh that's not for me great I'm glad it's not for you you can get out of the way to leave space on the white canvas for more people like you who want to show up and dance with me because I wanted to dance and I want to be in I mean that's what I want to do on a smile and be enjoyed dance so we need to show up how we show up and not feel guilty about that be happy about how we show up and just keep discovering we're going to keep showing up in new ways were so young we'd love to be part of the conversation with AP cultures called on Instagram Facebook and Twitter and we also have discord you've mentioned there and there is a lot going on over in the states at the moment waste crazy workers and maybe send television trying to really fight for their rights as labour's as a work force you know certainly as that as a cast member I'm sure you face your own challenges and just protecting your rights and just keeping well %HESITATION all if he you know and I I just wondered if you had any observations on that or just in hi y'all look after each other yeah I can yeah one thousand percent I remember my first commercial that I ever did in California's like two thousand and three or something I did a commercial call for Marshalls and I was I was I was like a daughter what are my dear friends Carlos Arguello he's a cinematographer and he was a cinematographer on that commercial and he's gone on to be he was like the cinematographer for pretty little liars for like so many years at Warner brothers it's a pretty little liars without it was Ashley Benson the four girls I think it's called pretty little liars that show %HESITATION I'm marathon it but these incidents are from that night and he's great he's been a great friend and he's a crew member I'm friends with a lot of crew because I produce I direct %HESITATION I shoot myself I'm into tack I'm into the the cameras like month which line is is that a lot of people use already it's from Germany like you know the crew so import into filling the basic needs of a crew and through the union I've employed a lot of people to you know do the full production of my projects but being a professional sense at Warner brothers and paramount and being on other people projects like huge huge budget projects and small budget projects I'll always remember call us Aguayo because when we were done we were wrapped I went around to all the crewmembers and thank them and say thing and I said thank you good job thank you and I went around and he tells me to this day he health and that's why he became my friend he said he tells people if you went around and he's like no actor does that you went around and you think all the crew members and you are wrapped and it's like for me to acknowledge that when I was young but I was doing it from my joy I was just excited to be on set working and seeing everyone doing smart hardworking everyone making the marks and doing their jobs it takes a lot so I think to acknowledge one another and for me is really important and I see a lot of actors I worked with Danny Pino and you know a lot of people there like really cool with the krill and they talk to one incident level and they have that bond in the kinship same thing with hair and make up you know like hair make up or like the actors like go to thank you they're like their best friend they know more about them than like maybe some of their friends actually you know all these people become our friends but it's really important to acknowledge and have that say great experience with one another and for me as an actor sometimes I'm just observing the crew and I'll hear crew talking I feel comfortable talking to front of me like my friend not not an easy he's a cinematographer he he just a machine gun Kelly's new song Megan fox is the leader of it he has work is just brilliant but it's so cold so beyond commercial censored like different sets of people the grip the lighting the crew people they're like yeah yeah the job tomorrow so it does not available Hey you got a guy that yeah I got a guy here outside use number that up and so did the crew really stays together like when the deep he shows up he brings his crew and and they go to job to job like a family with one another they really had each other's backs and them if someone's not available the help of filling or something and they trust they have that kinship and they trust one another and it's very deep rooted so all levels of entertainment and people who show up on to the set I have a job to do and there's this fine line of respect in this trust that's quietly created with who you are discovering who you are knowing who you are so you can be that value for someone else so %HESITATION great great topic that you brought up thank you thank you to Katie you've been so generous with your time and your energy engine and you've been so informative and ma'am I really appreciate it the story Hey let you go because I know you have other engagements need to count on that do you have upcoming projects or things that are going to be alright when the steps is going to be alright that you would like to see just point artists nurse awards yes and where we can find you and socials and website and all those sorts of details yes definitely out should not cause dot com my website definitely check out she's all over the place podcast by can you hear this %HESITATION season four will be up and running and so I check out you know all the seasons of she's all over the place podcast as a %HESITATION musician as a producer director on screen actor voice over talent I created a project called %HESITATION Dreamland eleven eleven so it's going to be streaming everywhere and it's dubs that music so I don't know if you're into electronic music but it's not set in for the tracks I'm doing spoken word poetry and I'm talking about divine femininity and how the divine femininity is not only for females but it's for all genders into claim and reclaim our powers and I'm doing that through my voice and then you know putting it on my social media %HESITATION a lot of directors producers and people entertainment they follow me so then they can see me on screen and then call my agency to book me on a film and hear my voice and then called my agency to book me on a voiceover so it's the way in the twenty first century to get out there and pave the way to create something and push short bits of things on social media so people can see your talent your work %HESITATION otherwise you know it's not show closet it's you know show business and we need to show these people and you know Sarah Jane Sherman she's at a great casting director in group huge in animation Sarah Jane Sherman I she wrote on her Twitter like couple weeks ago she's like if someone isn't you know giving you the opportunities carve your own name make your own lane and that's what I've been doing since day one of my career and it's more you know apparently never heard that it's what we need to do we get ninety percent of the booking the agents get ten percent what we need to do more work and just can expect our agents to do the work you know our job our job is to get the job they give us the meetings we need to prepare and do things to be able to get the jobs but yeah I'm on all social media you know Katie Chagas in August you can buy it from my website jobs dot com but I love tick tock Instagram Twitter all of them linkedin that's amazing candidate I can't thank you enough for this just upset whirlwinds of a conversation it's been really great fun I've learned those to me and a really short period of time %HESITATION I'm grateful raging I struggle all my gosh thank you my pleasure and I do coaching one on one so if anyone wants to do private coaching I've industry coaching they can reach me from my website to %HESITATION but there's great information on the podcast as well it really means a lot Paul and that makes me really satisfied and happy to know that we made an impact in added value %HESITATION that's great thank you candy %HESITATION and olive said letting somebody in the show notes wherever anybody says things so there's no excuse to go and check it out thanks so much Carrie thank you Paula I
hello I am polo player and this is audio visual cultures this episode features a conversation with Maria it's Meryl scare that was broadcast live and you cheap on the thirtieth of July twenty twenty one I had of Maria's preparations for her online at in defense performances and titles landing the link is in the show notes if you'd like to view that recording as I explained in knots Maria it caught me just as I was about to take most of August off so we went life as a witness mandate she added and release this before the performances that took place from the twenty second to the thirtieth of August fi is same I attended one of those events and it's something that we talk about in the discussion as Maria was planning it all right at the time but it was very different being at a life's fringe events online mind it was interactive I often find it quite difficult to focus us nothing C. with Maria that's entirely to do with me because I was very aware of the same logic that you cast and being a mites amassed six slash workspace my mind was just racing with things I needed today and I struggle to see man's hand the present nice that Maria worked really hard to stop ash and her opening meditation I've seen Maria perform life before and I've been to many friends performances before so I tried my best to imagine those things combines and what was different though was that Maria it consciously incorporated the webcam I thought a very clever way often using her proximity to yet she changed a shot type she often went deep into her performance space at some points and she created an extreme close up one point on her eyes her production assistant that was present with her also %HESITATION please tell thing and pounding according to the various movements as well so the risk could use if the camera going on and that bonding performances landing involved spoken word song dance instrumental tracks pre recorded videos and some audience participation and combined auctions and answering questions and the charts Maria encouraged the audience to you consider what home means to us and whether or not we feel landed it so we went quite deep on some things and I think there was a degree of shared vulnerability and this virtual space Maria really lay herself bare in particular and talking three family trauma and her conflicted feelings Orion's please Simplicissimus displacement can come in the form of necessitate or for well on the surface seems like it's for the best but it is never easy media also %HESITATION Rimini adage on getting stuck in a solitary place as we entered into lock signs last year and she reminded us that it's not just humans who become displaced speaking to %HESITATION Redbridge cone that she find in Britain and I encountered quite a few red weights at National Trust places during may break and had been thinking about this is wild artifacts on the world's flora and fauna has created displacements in the natural world stage and sometimes for those of us with transitory lights this can mean that sometimes home it reaches us for good or for bad so there was a lot to think about it there with all of that in mind I am really pleased to introduce this informative discussion with performer Maria it's Meryl scam when the recording was over I find that the sign quality was pretty awful ands and balanced between S. and I wasn't aware that that was happening by recording my tests all signed it fine I think if maritime history I think my computer hardware is struggling the hardware in this computer has been breaking apart for some time as credit Franken sending machine at this point and I'm not no I would ask you to please consider supporting my work at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures or via the other links in the show notes for for your listening to this reviewing this because I Brady do you need to save up for some new equipment and that will help keep improving the quality of audio visual cultures and just keep me workin and just teach thanks to you special people like there he already do you support this show in various ways for night please enjoy this episode online saying with my very special guest Maria well hello we are very welcome to this life recording of audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and media we're doing this life today because my cast has some really exciting show coming up in Edinburgh on the twenty second of August I believe and I'm about to take a bit of time off so we thought we'd just not just a window of time where we kids and do this video this morning so that and I'll be right there it will be available for people to watch ahead it's not true and then the audio edit can come by and a couple of months time so thank you so much if you're joining us on U. shape please do share this widely so as many people as possible can hear but it's fabulous yes Morales scare and her amazing show so some of the long hold listeners may remember Maria and her reading interesting interactive performance from the late show's episode back in twenty nineteen and I'm really thrilled to welcome merry at T. R. twenty eight twenty one remote for amounts to spring and then Maria to the stream nice very good morning Maria hi are you dating all right good morning Paula I'm well thank you how are you okay so I'm not too bad it's just still here here is it okay to ask where but she aren't the kids here I'd sites and an ex very interesting up there Walsall Knoxville nine island called St Martin's which is on the Isles of Scilly off the coast of Cornwall and I came here a couple months ago just a summer job and duration has it but I don't have indoor wifi based company %HESITATION outside my work here it is okay yes probably awesome well fresh air that skate office gauge symmetry at any a little bit faster time so would you be happy to just give us a bit of an overview of some of you reckon and we'll talk about your show sure I'm an international performer and Polish American and that all actually new castle M. thirty minutes ago hi merrily I've done theatre work rather than %HESITATION no more anything and I guess you could describe the work of Dennis is a co our mental work I work in a company called patches on their base I'm up in North America so that's also a very kind of visual goalie a look I love theater and I train with a company called undercoat it turned cold and is also very physical %HESITATION some bold divide your work yeah so I guess that's kind of my training where I come from and the physical collection device sort of process work yeah you're planning your show so it's on the twenty second of August is that right but this one %HESITATION great yes I've got one on the twenty second and the twenty third and then a code on the twenty seventh the twenty ninth and thirtieth and they're all live stream there's a plea at seven thirty PM that's brilliant that's created is there anything you can tell us apart it will my people extracts from Nazi thank you so with the one woman show it's something I've written and devised it's called landing and the thing of it is finding one's place on earth which I think is that a kind of a universal yet timely payments zero something of impregnating inside for many years now how to describe it it's a combination of poetry movement song we'll get a visual art and they'll be interactive elements as well that's how I want to try and create kind of an intimate interactive experience as much as possible budget yes %HESITATION beat via zoom and there will be the invitations to participate it's also the element of ritual which is something I've been incorporating into my work yeah I want to thank for now okay that's a really nice teaser here Facebook pages links and show notes people had over to Facebook follow Maria just while we're on that you want to point anybody towards your socials or website yeah I don't have a website as of yet but I do have an Instagram account which is my full name so it's merry S. mascot just all together and then I'm on Twitter but they don't really use it you can find by me on there Maria you are all one it's not W. S. one I think at the end date and there will actually be a Facebook page for the show it out which I mean to my page transaction so it is good to just fly close up just so that people know where to go so we can settle in a bit and take few minutes stand to talk about your work more generally and to say you walk tall people may come to expect from this experience and life experience some of your recognized before haven't on the digital sphere yes Sam certainly the life experience as I describe it I mean definitely interactive fun thought provoking and just what you were mentioning already here thinking about it life life on this planet since can you to question some things and think something sorry what about you yeah S. or anything you're more you'd like to slash I debate what you've done before well I think what I've done before sure it has but up to now but I feel like especially this show is my first original work really Holly energy a one woman show when I was very young as well which was an adaptation of the novel this is my first completely original work okay well I don't think you said our elements I do ask questions I'm not speaking to give answers that masking universal questions I suppose to get people to think about in this show specifically you know who are you what is your identity regardless of your culture or nationality and so on but also what does it mean to have a place on this earth and how do you find that is it something that you take for granted or is that a life long quest how does it look so it's something that I hope will appeal to many people I've actually done a few sharing of the work in progress over the last few months and gotten feedback very interesting but the people who've traveled and lived abroad and have the experience of being our incumbent quote but also people who just come from one place one small town for example on the Mike I'm this and for them it was also %HESITATION but interesting to broaden their horizons to go %HESITATION that applies to me too and it's interesting to see this other perspective so yes I like asking big questions it would be like to keep it entertaining as well obviously another thing that's kind of always drawn me to theaters the arctic aspect which originally was a part of a pattern so I guess that's why I'm incorporating elements of virtual now and going how can we maybe together collectively create a ritual that can be cleansing artworks evening in some way ask any of the questions that they bring up obviously from our past when I land %HESITATION there's a chance that maybe collectively do send your application if you well but also balance with lighter moments not all dark heavy you know so that's kind of what I'm looking at and I think the show is the beginning of of more research and work for the future but it's taking that question and looking at it now and then we'll see we'll see what other work comes future your question Paul I don't know waffling is automotive fights let me walk over as you're describing those things I am being transported back a couple of years to the late shows and share performance Sarah and how he rebuilt to get people drawn in so that performance I'm really interested in that element of contingency or for other people we're bringing when each other many because you can only plan so much with that sort of thing that's interactive and getting other people to perform something even if you're giving them the words because I remember having to read something I didn't get to sort of take an audience member and make them part of it make them performance I find that really interesting about your stuff meanwhile I'm going to try and recreate some about it my uncle digitally obviously it's not the same as live where you can have an immediate response if you will and you can contract obviously there's a bit of it's just a little bit different but I recently did a little work in progress during the month that goes by where for the first time I had a moment of improvisation while I was performing live with the audience who I could see you know that moment and that I was just so joyful and the feedback I got was like yeah we felt we were part of that as well and I like that I like creating that space and internet community for the duration of back and we're all a part of creating it together it's not just hello I'm a performer you know I I like to share I think something that's special and precious about live performance be it digital or live yeah I'll manage yeah I'm sure it would be great I imagine that because so many people in the arts has been a tough year and a half we've talked about this a little bit but have you find any other way he says adopting any plans that you had or are you for sure to be confronted with I'm not having a choice but to make online and that sort of thing highs topping three top anything open for anyone I was actually in isolation of Scotland %HESITATION about six months in the house by myself luckily I had good news tonight and so I was able to do a little bit of performing online a little bit of teaching you know running workshops and thank that only other hand in a way I found it in some ways liberating because I'm going to have bro while I'm on an island in the Atlantic and that's why %HESITATION that and and the hard to get my head around it but also very exciting I've got somebody producing will be in Africa during the time of the production and it's and my directors in Ireland it's just kind of also beautiful that I'm someone who's very international and I've traveled a lot and I've spoken to friends all over the world for me it's always been about you know other time zones and languages etcetera so it feels like the world is kind of stepped up to accepting that is more common than normal in every day and that excites me because it's just really creating that feeling of connectivity globally and %HESITATION I personally love that so in a way it is been liberating the strike while B. R. of your chili but streaming islands you they can go worldwide and research that I think is a worldwide competition and %HESITATION we're having an yes it's exciting it's exciting to have that but I performed live for the first time the other week here on the island we had a little open Mike at the cafe and actually there's a lot of performers on the Simon strangely enough and is the first time I perform live the new year and a half last time was in Newcastle actually enough and it was just so exciting for everyone just like all you know we have been sharing this moment an audience it's been difficult yet challenging but if we can find a way to have a balance in the future it's kind of interesting it does open up a lot of possibilities I know there's a lot of companies have in the states and in other countries you know who been working digitally already for years they were kind of ahead of the game a little bit if you will yeah it's an interesting chance yet like I'm saying I think it's about the balance not I want it all to go online forever no you don't but how can we find a way to maybe you know make a hybrid form or medium it's interesting that my it's been a learning curve I totally get what you're saying I mean that this podcast is become radio international because of what's happened as well so you don't get the same energy necessarily and it's harder to read body language and you don't have to assume that you know your your contingency becomes Willie internet works today as my computer going to burn out so absolutely what I was asking that because I'll be streaming there's only one island hall with good internet your oh my god we're who I know who would just fix of putting on here is very upset they so I went up and I said you know if it's good enough the internet and the answer I got was what prince Charles had a meeting there so yes prince Charles about it I can do it you got real greens and gymnasts on your side Maria quite a few bad experience will happen again but I've been doing it it's all part of it really and I think we're all just so you stay over and away you stay any life or any collect saying in that it's part of it now yes thank you thanks yeah but I'm still crisscrossed courage you got fights and that's five three good chances that it's gonna go perfectly more than one you're right okay would you like to receive updates thanks and special offers straight to your inbox and visit audio visual cultures tower presto com to sign up to our mailing list I'm interested and some of the scenes at your phrases file because that you talked about your rest chill and so much shows just digress just hear what we're doing right now having a conversation online so I'm in new castle you're in the city island Sir we're so far apart yep first beside each other on the screen and the rituals of joining these kinds of calls now I and so many of us have to say this is how you we've been meeting up with their friends and family and all of that so I wonder if there's a ritual and that capital our sense of it but then two smaller right chill since everyday occurrences those things have become habits and become normal that were normal before you know I wonder how much do you think will emerge in the show room so the even that hi this show is getting I. thirty people as part of her at Chennai in itself that's an interesting question I hadn't thought about the smaller rituals actually but you're right yeah because like I said I've done a few of the sharing is already online and I had someone to sell it taking them and that was like the whole ritual you came and there was a waiting room chat music you know and then obviously I was doing human aids afterwards so there's a whole brain work and it's funny that you ask that because I was talking to somebody else in London as well get a little sharing and %HESITATION and she asked me the whole process with the Mitchell and I was kind of like I hadn't thought of it that way but actually yes it is actually a student of the head of every step along the way of making this show and along with this year which came along and we kind of made it happen for me because I was suddenly ahead of time and space likely right now my focus is does this work it has been it has been a ritual so yeah pretty much every element of it is I have intertwined in that way which makes me think I need to make up more I think that even more or just maybe just you know more consciously not necessarily make everything right so that might be a little bit heavy you know bring that awareness to it so you just need to check out I don't really I like that thank you I just wonder if it's another way of linking to your past our engine has to be our more recent past linking east technological advances and the rituals around using them box three times hi these things and go I suppose I mean I don't know what you're going to say I'm just talking stuff I did see her perform what little I do you know of what I've seen of your work before work because I think wasn't a debate going to another planet the PC for %HESITATION you know see you've got that XPS three S. thing humming noise in the background to that idea of going to another planet but how you actually get there you know expose rituals of travel and things like that tonight will break traveling through our computers you know so this technological facilitation of being somewhere else society is coming right I hadn't thought of it as we started it this is going on it's no it's not a problem because you're talking about travel and that the idea of a journey of something that I do feel very central to my work so you mentioned we were going to another planet in the late shows her comment here I am thinking everyone on a journey through partly my life and then these questions if you will so and poetic non linear fashion yeah song movement ritual it's interesting when you say part what I'm very interested in semantic work as well so I'm trying to find a way to take ritual also Germanic ritual perhaps and blended into weave it into the theater work and hard to %HESITATION what I'm exploring the show as well as the land which is also in the title of landing do you have any meetings so it's also the land and the question of how the Latin speaks to us being human beings in a way it's a dialogue also with and I'm going how do I know I found my place the bland %HESITATION how communicated to me so that is something if you were definitely very ancient and something we've always had that I'm trying to access through ritual and performance and my own practice has been really about tuning into that over the last years just how do I work with that innate semantic performance is way rituals and ways of %HESITATION working artistically within landscape and then here I am pulling up outside most of the time which I had not expected at all I was like I'm gonna be in a black box theatre somewhere or even that living room where I was up and you know but now I find myself mostly outside it's interesting that that has arisen in a way and it's interesting that I'm really trying to work with the elements the Latin guy see the ocean I have here that when the sun the earth but I'll be online so it's what you're talking about is how to facilitate mother's dialogue what we're talking about the three D. and then the technological so then kind of finding that balance I'm really kind of about a %HESITATION I guess the way I would use this kind of sensuous experience in the sense that you feel that you put in your body in your skin and that's what's so beautiful about live events I think I've also always been drawn to that rather than well as you grow your breathing the same air and you're feeling the emotions kind of as they happen with what's happening on stage and then obviously there's an interactive element even more engaging and I love that that's what I've always talked about performance the content of the video of it in March yeah shivers you laugh where others lack active experience in %HESITATION of emotion which can also be very cathartic transformative if you %HESITATION sometime so how do I read that into this medium where things are flat or not three D. how do you how do I get your meal you know all these emotions but to see the gauge that you're feeling them not you're just not watching a movie happening but you're there live in your part of that as well and I I want to somehow recreate that and bring the men she was mad and experience into the digital realm I'm talking about going up to impossible to doing and sometimes I'm like no but that's the whole challenge and beauty of it is that had to be back people are like oh my gosh I was transported I was no longer in my living room I was there with you as they are yes it can work I'm striving towards how do we connect to our bodies you are this material may not need some way through this medium that we have nowadays the situation called this meeting to be so every day my long attempt toward Sir but I think yeah that's what I'm looking for that's what really excites me is just having not humana more than human experience the governor in a state whatever the space it's really interesting watching you talk I think it's being on screen so much we're having to rely more on earth station expressions on our hand gestures to the visual heavy lifting of communication so it's interesting watching you marking three ideas with your hands maybe Davison describing stuff like this while we're cut off from the chastisement but we still got our faces and our hands on our shoulders are maybe that's what it is it's transferring their performance from the parts of the body that we count Sadie channeling at some height and save the gestures and the smaller areas some are concentrated areas so that that just came to mind %HESITATION as you were talking about that definitely I mean I I know I talk a lot with my hands anyway I see yeah yeah but it does help the concentrated %HESITATION yeah yeah we love the idea of it thank you yeah it's just so I think that's it maybe that's how it's transferring is that because it was funny I recording I did recently was somebody rear talking about eight forty socks saying you know so you can't see that but the performers acting still fight with their bodies and not come three in their glory so I'm wondering if that's an element that helps it come across as well is connections read a voice and then if it's interactive and other people are able to join then and feel that they can start to move boldly and maybe that transfer student voices while something else some yeah it and it just reminds me of one of the first things a job I had as a teenager in the states and we were taught to not smile opponent because it comes through I remember learning that when I was I don't know fourteen fifteen and it's true you can't beat that and so it's this whole concept of embodiment I'm talking about which is so important as it does transfer it does transfer and even though I think a year ago we would have been like I think people are more used to it now right dancing together online for example you can still have the impression of either be it for like a party a celebration or something more organized a dance class or a %HESITATION I don't know if you know five percent dancing no no I don't it's like a movement practice where you go through what's known as a wave and you go through five different buttons it's usually consulted by someone anyway briefly so it's like a movement practice and I've been doing some of those online as well and they were you initially think are you know dancing in the streets one of my screen this is ridiculous hundreds of people like all over the world and you still get that feeling it's like we're not in the same room together but we're in the same zoom room and got the facilitator and and you can connect to other people if you want you can also hide yourself but there's also that freedom which is nice not everybody was like oh watch me that not everybody wants that but you can get the feeling of like there are other people on the planet right now dancing with me and we're all moving our bodies in the sea the same music and having our own experience but somehow we're connected you know it's the energy really it's about the energetic maxim that's the interesting and strange thing probably a lot more tangible in your in a physical space together can also experience at best and it's not like you think in a way I really do if you step out let's talk for a few days and you think about it like this is why %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION on early and and we're able to do this and I'm gonna be doing a show and you will be able to see her mother right it's crazy it is magical and you can't do that then that's the energy and I thought about energy also read key practitioners working a lot better you're in a manic workable so energetic work and that's part of it I guess that sharing of that is making me smile as you talk about that because I think back in the order numbers somewhere no team just a few months ago my sense of time inside of walk April let's see autumn back in April I think it was there is a feminist Film Festival in Belfast called one day and I was able to go to a festival because it was a long line and they had a big rock party we did what you said we had is invesco and it was the best contact honestly and you think your mom my own them in the front room it's like a silent disco by myself but I'm with loads of my friends so I can't say and it was just class I was just the best fun you know and it was in our stage a he's living in England I was at I'm in England totally different cards regardless connection as we speak the language just as you were saying it was just so much fun didn't feel isolated and feel lonely was buzzing going to bed that night and for days afterwards you know it was just so much fun because I think in in a way when people come and say your body you don't have so many innovations nobody can say yet as he sang he can join in but you don't have to be on screen loads of this region recently saying the strike had little toe lace up I had a little toy a hold up and making it jumps to the catamaran people were wearing fake mosses masks and stuff and use it an artist a rebel fast he was going to pay Charlie Brian Maass masquerades headings Johnson right like that free agent you know so it's like that so yeah you do you get that connection and your %HESITATION performing it kind of ritual that you used to do in a room together and get sweaty and gross and horrible can it don't have to smell anyone it welcome bye have brought about by like that now well I'm glad you had that experience so you know what I'm talking about yeah exactly exactly and it works right you still need it and like you're saying it energizes you gives you something and I'm still connected and I think it's very very important part of the NY times just remember we are connected with the mental health and all that it's been very very challenging and %HESITATION I think I've always been drawn to this kind of idea of creating a community but right now even more so I guess it would bite lean pardon and so I want to be able to create that for a moment and we'll get you back to say that I get some hope and just to see where yeah we are all human and we have similar questions and feelings at such time and are you to share that and let that happen out and create space for that to happen written for me too obviously you know I do it because also I need it I can share that with others and create intimate moments of connection matters that are human and very beneficial in some way whether it's just being entertained and sharing the fun moments together one more thought provoking more cathartic whatever I think those moments of in kind terror as well because you don't necessarily know he's going to turn up for how many people are going to turn out and so those contingencies again but moments this connections re encounter and even if there's no %HESITATION touch but as you say you can have those other sensory experience history oral delivery of things because I think it's well there's probably a connection with oral histories and whereas they would have been passed online and been more cereal you can still be a serial but it can also be recorded and archived away this is going to be on the internet for who knows how long for example with say what you're saying I don't know if you record them or not but I guess not necessarily that will be nice and healthy and they're their own time I don't know what you'll do with top but have yet but yeah mmhm yeah I just thought ideas that you're in not moments here and not present mess with people and you're trying to be in the night and just be together at that time you know and I suppose it's a matter of focus because it's something that I guess a lot of us have been confronted with as well as hi many other sayings are going on on our screens incoming crescent but search screen on as in cold or something like that yes you know I suppose that's just more questions that are coming to mind okay well K. top and then the show maybe it's exactly that it's her innocence is something that is a camera there for that present moment you share it live here in an audience historically usually there's no telling it just bear in mind the experience I am and I think that's what's beautiful about it because you have a lot of on demand shows that have been created so that you can just click on by them and I have that option out there not the whole point is to help what you're talking about at the half that live experience as much as possible even though it's digital and actually I did try this little experiment where I had %HESITATION just for you know various reasons I couldn't perform the whole thing live I didn't have someone to help me technically so I did harden my sharing live and then I pressed play because when I did the rest from another previous sharing that I had recorded and the difference in people's memories to it was so interesting I was like it actually just answer the questions tangible different people like when I was there watching it and it was live and interactive and you know we were there with you I was really taken right and then it changed and it was just kind of like watching something I was like oh my gosh so that just confirm it's gotta be lied to me because of the nature of it and what we're talking about just that feeling of you are engaged in that moment by the late and there's that little risk because it's interactive there's always a little over a gun when I teach ins and I'm up on stage that kind of thing and you know an interactive shows so I'm making it a safe is obviously someone doesn't want to I'm never going to pressure you know whatever but there is that invitation and we saw a little and that's great because it's just like I don't want you sitting there watching you know going out or not it's like well no no this is life this is instructive I'm asking for a first sort of engagement I don't want to be just a passive you're consuming and more entertainment it's a little bit more than that great yeah you want to encourage active participation chest passes being of something and consumption but actually production from people and helping make the R. but because of that it's a collaborative thing it's not just managing the work the questions and like I said at the dialogue that we created together and it's like you were part of that dialogue and creation is well in the like what you saw today it was also like what everyone brought which is surprising thank god the whole UT a minute I wasn't expecting that answer or that kind of response and and let me get that it's like yeah so that was your part that was what you created what you brought and I want the same in this experience is obviously to help grow it grow it and it'll be different every time I like that element of surprise isn't isn't it because this is something I feared all my formative life like I want everything stroll because it's already so much going on and what you risk involved I really like things to be like I know I'm doing beginning and then there's no now I'm like no the beauty is in that proposition in the on the not knowing a risky element of bringing someone who I don't know in completely you know I'm an audience member or just allowing that space for the unknown to happen on stage and performance and I love that because that takes more trust it's harder in a way that is created and distributed across the state yeah yeah well that's okay you like it I don't know I think it's something that's like I'm not seeking protection anymore I'm speaking yeah I don't want it published in perfect we want to be alive and brought is not completely but you know have that new not not exactly right in a cross what I need yeah I think so yes I think so you can drive yourself mad to get everything perfect but then might people be more process because there's nothing making them think about it there's nothing taking the might of themselves for a moment I find anyway the artist and the imperfection the artist and the contingency whatever happens happens I think it's much more interesting than something being less polished perfect's objects because you can see the work and then you can see where people have tried and maybe it hasn't gone the way they they might have wanted or imagined but something happens and at school people thinking about something you know so there's definitely something I'm not I would say I think it's really brave performers make themselves pretty vulnerable I think I think any live performance even if it is super polyester you never know what's going to happen but when something like this right isn't translate to the absolute letter again you don't know what's gonna happen you know so I think it's incredibly brave some performers did that and then they they lay themselves quite paradoxically but I think there's the invitation then she the audience members to do the same you can be part of the same we can keep each other safe so that's maybe where that sense of community comes from exactly no it's very much what you said because many think about Leonard Cohen quote there's a crack in everything that's where the light gets in or the Japanese art and pasting the but you know what it's called the open like a vase only goal coming in and regulating it with gold I don't remember what that artist called but it's just the beauty of keeping the crack well even elevating members gold and stand out like your battle scars wearing one work hi exactly that is exactly what I want to create and that's shown I think in all my work really intimate vulnerable face I'm so afraid out it is so human and so vitally important everywhere in the world and and now I think in a way even more just come back here is out there and the sound a little cheesy but it's not it's really opening up about love and vulnerability that we all need and want to experience and share I'm talking about you know unconditional big capital L. love and having faced the state's right to do that might be saying take care of each other and not my mom and %HESITATION have you heard of the sociologist Bernie brown Renee brown is an American she's a Texan sociologist has written quite a few books one of her books have been kind of a company called braving the wilderness okay which to speak alone or something would be a yeah and they can sell so the cuticle had called about vulnerability which %HESITATION welcome the checkout our talk about the power of both of those yeah about all week yeah you know we got a strong we gotta protect ourselves in the backseat well in a way it's more resilient you know it sounds counterintuitive but to be vulnerable and open and to share your yourself more you know more authentically that's kind of where the connection happens in that auto connection is very powerful and I think that he may not like the little gold in the cracks a broken vase or not what we need but I am hoping to foster allow that to happen I thank myself quite so getting others to do that as well yes actually so I think if anybody is watching this and they're a bit on the fence about giving that a go I can assure you because I have participated in workshops and performances and Maria has been needing and I felt in very safe hands you I am super duper and your birthdate and I felt quite comfortable accede to join and then mark and and and make and our side of myself so I felt very very safe and comfortable and joyful actually today that was Maria so you'll be in very safe hands he please give Mexico thank you I'm really glad if you're interested in giving regular support for the podcast that aren't too keen on peach tree and I know I have membership options and buy me a coffee dot com forward slash P. eight there where you can get the same extras as well as some others exclusive buy me a coffee head over to buy me a coffee dot com forward slash P. eight B. LA bart to price membership options or drop a fiver into this charge thanks and enjoy the rest of the episode is there anything else that you'd like to say to protect people or anything we haven't covered I think we've covered quite a bit actually merry at sparrow scat thank you so much for this morning it's been great to catch up TV part of anything else already excited about the show and I hope it rain it goes really really well for you great thank you so much thank you for having me follow them updating you again okay ET okay folks to check out his performance and her other work currency speaking instincts I'm below so thanks everyone take care see you next time