Show notes
This conversation with artist Richard James Hall was recorded and broadcast for the Slack's Radio residency as part of Blazing New Worlds at the NewBridge Project in January 2022.
Discussion topics include:
• performance art, drawing, creativity, video, Instagram Live, curating
• disability, autism, bodies, being queer
• engagements with other artists such as Sally Madge and Victoria Gray
• the arts in Newcastle upon Tyne and North East England
• being a member of NewBridge
Image from Dick’s ‘Crossing the Summer River’ performance in 2016, photo by Arto Polus.
If you enjoy this chat, please give it a good rating and share it with a friend!
Auto-captioned videos on YouTube.
Recorded using Zencastr on 19 January 2022 and Audacity on 8 February 2022.
Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.
Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.
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Transcript
hello and welcome to the audio facial cultures the podcast part eight year host Paul let Blair investigate different areas of film media at the arts and cultural production in this episode I am delighted to share with you a recording I am me it's with Newcastle based artist Richard jams hold for the Sox radio residency at the new bridge project a budget which you can find more information by following the links in the show notes wherever you're listening to this deck is a very dear friend of mine and a big supporter of this show and I've been wanting to do a recording with them for awhile so this was a really lovely way to go up by that and I'm really grateful to you you bridge and socks for the opportunity if you'll recall take featured on our special remembering Sally match episode last autumn and it's great night to talk said tech personally up by their own practice which is largely through process and performance arts and if you've been missing for a while you know that to bake and tracks if mine is live performance art so before I pass over to our past selves %HESITATION past pastels huge thanks to all our listeners and said are very generous benefactors over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures all of you thought make doing this and my very busy January with all of these recordings furry purse while if you love what I'm doing with the show and she can't manage to support the work financially I'd really appreciate it a positive review and rating for every access a podcast and a based on your socials which also be rainy rainy appreciated I'm so grateful when people say that it really means a lot but if you can manage even just a one off if you quit I'd be so grateful for that you can see that so radically on our lovely upgraded website funded by our patrons audio visual cultures dot com where you can also sign up to our mailing list to receive our free monthly newsletter Anthony episodes notifications streets to your inbox as well as access transcripts and generally get more information and thanks for everything to do with me on the show so %HESITATION finale before you run off and deal of science I want you to really enjoy this insightful talks with Dick James hall I know I really enjoyed all my talks Richard GM's hall thank you so much for joining me thank you so much for inviting me Pola it's great to catch up so my first question would you be happy T. describe your practice for everyone in the short term I would say I am a performance artist based in Newcastle upon Tyne the longer way about two days I'm a performance artist who also does I think kinds of whack on the side and has come from a tradition of improvised sectional performance but also realizing and having to think about now the factor of how much being on the autistic spectrum being clear being fast teams and affects myself and the world around me it's a very strange questioning them having to go for you and I'm constantly questioning myself which makes it very hard to think about projects and to be honest practice supplies some just like taking it day by day week by week yet I yes it's a really long time gentle point about that's about how I would describe my practice so follow me thanks I've had the privilege of being able to see your live performance and the before times when it is safe to gather but I also really enjoy aids over the lock time periods here experimental weapons say performances on Instagram life and I think those are where you really explored a lot of those kinds of same set you just flagged off their bite identity and taking up space and moving through space yes and playing with all Jackson just the life work but doing it to where it's calmer and I really enjoyed that a lot as well as those what else specifically would you say you've been working on recently and I think we can be very elastic about what we mean by Yuri sends a header what else would you say if the marking on because I know you do a lot of drawing as well I was doing a lot of touring and I kinda Hey this sort of roadblock because recently about a few months ago I was invited to do my fast performance the audience and %HESITATION via free is actually for no trace without resistance which was a memorial offend for the late great Sally mad shit and for that I was in a lab coat which I had to order in because I thought about wearing Sally's lab coat she was very very much smaller move me so %HESITATION Denton alab coach and that's not code seen some action button days before that offense including doing a trip from shields field on the bus where all the people that go in like keep away from me from the testing site %HESITATION I'm in the middle of town going through old charity shops because I was looking for China plates and China tea cups and all that %HESITATION center Johnston also a fantastic performance artist and I'm just like going through each charity shop going like no no and I'm ending up with this bunch of plates and all this trainer and I'm like going is this right it's cold cold trimming my S. but on foot up on the day itself I had a lint roller I had a few lane troll is some fine French chalk and I'm just proud of the day I was just rolling this Lynch rolled over the fan use cinema scenes because the venue itself is the star channel cinema and I'm just rolling away trying to cover up best hand the little bits of fabric you know about that slapped behind from use and it was interesting actually saying how much of the past is picked up by this this Dastis Moscow time which was very much a tradition that Sally match basically use within have practice which was to pick up on the mundane things and just celebrated so I did that for about five hours in terms of other things apart from being filled with some sort of mysterious bacterial and viral infection I saw a really interesting piece of performance work by another artist called Victoria gray no actually wrote it's very rare that I write in response to artworks but this one just struck me because she actually was addressing being on the autistic spectrum and actually being recently diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum which was really interesting to me and as I'm writing is an essential stuff and I re read it I'm going %HESITATION I'm picking up on stuff that I have experienced that's a few people who I have known have also experienced so in a way my practice is fairly elastic and recently I've also been waking up on the soldiers soft practice launch of a survey of seven matches where at parks docked was trying to install some heroic in waves stat isn't academically structures all institutionally structured but actually played about with SS you are the artists so I've been piling up cuddly toys into the corner of the room I've been trying to stand up cushions which demand select B. fold down benches constantly having this on off discussion about how certain things come alive with the artist's touch robin and perhaps the curatorial touch in Newton so I've been having a bit of discussion with a couple of other people about that about terminal the curators meant to care about classic and yet it's us the artists who actually seem to be showing the most cash and the most dynamic form of cash which is to actually bring to life those wax which was so enormous and also think about how it is the pro sets itself that brings those works to live it's not just like an institutional taxonomy saying process but that's a very this is also lead you can tell I've been doing an MA and hung around PhD student quite a long time because I have that critical for process that's really useful insight actually %HESITATION I really appreciate those ideas I think that's a lovely way of putting it as well as the idea of taking care of the arts not just putting it somewhere in San Mart like slicing no backseat carrying forests and the kitchen she's talking about it especially because they're fragments of fabric that Sally painstakingly closets together and they've been washed up on the shore so who knows where they came from and that speaks of clothes and things you know so they're very human I think her intention was to give some some sort of dynamism and slice and sterile different shapes and sizes just like humans are and there are no billion there by Katie and %HESITATION to silence some bets and just like humans are and they're coming apart sure there you there so soon together they're awful tough it's really wonderful to hear that you've been able to play with those and have thought life experience because I think that's where the passive performance already come site as when you play with things and you have the opportunity to play and sometimes that the material the G. and you facilitate rather than forcing it into something I think that's the key part of any sort to improvise ation %HESITATION performance practice it's all fine and well having the infection diet DHEA but sometimes you have to let yourself be led by the materials besides the people around you yes very much in a dynamic state it's very hard to actually stay static I had my is some artists who actually had to generational static way back but it's just so slow that the melts happens I've tried that once for an hour I couldn't do it I haven't got the practice or the patience for it I'm very much like a ten gentil practitioner eight eight something catches my interest %HESITATION I'm kind of old to okay that sounds really childish in a way that it's just my way of going about it I like the dynamism I like to be invigorated somehow but of course there's also moments where you have to take stock and you have to stand back and actually trying to go like this is no time to Lolo it's do you find that these are quite and cheered us processes C. just really listen to yourself and see what you need today or how much do you allow yourself to you to what extent the G. plan something before you go into S. or GHS have an idea and you see what happens I would say I have an idea it's very read that I has the overall vision of something it's much mall on the emotional scale for me there's no hard structures to really work with apart from perhaps the site itself there are some things you just can never fall so change you can't change your environment entirely without great pains to do so okay your materials there's a level of care with materials but there's also a level of understanding that once you do something destructive you basically kind of took away some fence original intent and you have to live with that and you have to clean up after that I flinch from experience that you have to take responsibility as a performance artist that in a way that you are having show cat to the site to the materials or understand that there is consequences once you destroy the materials people around you because people are unpredictable and there may be times where you may have to shift out a little bit from performance from one performance state to another state to react to another person who may be in the audience at the end of today yeah I also have to care for yourself because it's some nice and well when you have other people supporting you but sometimes when you're actually by yourself as I have been throughout some of the experimental Wednesdays and fraud some of the experiments of had done in public ground wax before you are basically having to take care of yourself and I understand what you need to do to recuperate all what you need to watch out full so there's a responsibility to the play as well and I feel like that's something I'm growing into because when you're young you're sort of slap dash thank god I actually was in a workshop ones and this kids basically interest was going off on one ninety actually was just like destroying everything around him and asked the end defense because we let them go through this let him do what he did and at the end of it I just basically said to him in a way that was so exciting I have been in that place I have been in that destructive area but you have to be away and now that your destruction has caused the fact around you so in a way I was kinda kicking is I'll spend an assaultive caring way and I was trying to show a level of cab actually kind of going like I'm kicking your house right now but only because I want you to let but it because some people don't do that turned and maybe one of the few people to actually step up to the plate to go and make active in the market for yeah so thank you Spain a member of mu Prich for awhile but she sent me that there might be anything you've learned from being part of the French or any experiences you've had particulars Newbridge or is there anything you can reflect on a plate to share experience of being a member I would say as of any studio situation it varies from studio to studio I've been in some tight knit studios where I'm sharing one room with may be for artists or maybe sharing this massive garage with eight to eleven artists with no boundary points and it's interesting to me how new bridge festival in Laos the boundary space so that Joe's studio is your studio and that's something that's in some ways I've really crave tunes because I'm quite a messy studio hold I'm not eighteen Messi I had one studio member years ago and it was that this was the last straw for me we had a shed fridge need basically the last wild mushrooms in the fridge for about a week and when I open the fridge it's like no no well I actually had to get everything out to die frage check out the mushrooms and tried to clean up drive entire fridge and it still smells of mushroom sold the bleaching of acted I concluded it just was like nope bad smells not going what I'm finding less new bridge is for the fact that even for you may have separate studios there's still a community which I really appreciate I'm talking to artists who have just graduated from university and I'm like trying to get them like the little things look like yet try to keep you practice separately studios so you can at least keep up the momentum because we're meant to people who do with Todd courses and then they don't continue to practice you kind of lose the momentum any other use the want to box if you don't keep the practice up but it's interesting as well having talked in whack with members of staff at new bridge as well there is a level okay and there is a level of wanting things to change both within the studio settings but also in the wider spectrum of the community over the last few years especially since I've only came into new bridge September twenty nineteen and there's been times when members of that community has actually supported me when I have been at my lowest lows actually had her back to give me a call of a lockdown ones Rebecca Huggins I rector of new bridge and she basically just wanted to check in on me that's something that I don't think a lot of institutions usually do and I think that shows the amount of cash that's Newbridge shows towards since member is but of course sometimes members also push the lack a little bit and new bridge won't be afraid to choose basically co sought to shed her %HESITATION don't leave your stuff ready for us in this to start fires well I feel like it's also like it's a mix of training ground for recent graduates but also it allows space for older artists to work in a studio setting amongst the community especially with hollow space is a premium now especially in cityscapes and heads of studios outside of the city but it's usually people who have a little bit more money well a little bit more know how about how the infrastructure work ethics and I'm not quite at that place now financially or know how to actually kind of have a space outside yes but I really appreciate new brands on that level it's just a nice space it's somewhere where I would recommend any recent graduates to apply for especially if the local based I was wondering if you have any thoughts about aids the arts in new castle quite generally and across the northeast region that you'd be happy to share I mean you mentioned for example you branch being in shale fields and that's quite a recent maze and premises in the city centre but do you have any thoughts about it but the art scene so I can see what it's like in the city and in the region I would say Newcastle as to not seem itself is a fairly tightly nets group so there are times where there are people who I see two artists who I recognize but I don't quite know of but there's always that sort of thing off when you're walking down the street and you see somebody in your chest notes from the scene and you just give them the slight tilt open knowledge just to kind of go like I see it and because I'm not entirely beneficial me because sometimes if I don't get to tell took the note back when I gave the tilt of the knowledge back and it's like just like for the audio that was two flips of the birds that I think it's well in terms of new castle it is a little bit of a struggle at times because the northeast as a region has always kind of struggled with the odds because we've always been seen as like the leftover region in England itself if anything there are some people in other regions of England who actually consent to Newcastle in northeast actually be heart of Scotland yes so this these questions of like winter we'd be better off if we were in adopted by the Scottish oh do we have to really fight hard to win full funding but it's also back case of new castle has some of the free weights actually experimental work in because economically rent here is not too bad it's actually fairly cheap compared to some of the regions where it's small popular to live and it is it has produced some really great artists of the is what I'm finding as well as some of the great artists that I know of unknown only locally in this the likes of Carol Luby and Sally match for example who they're artists who are locally known and that my it locally but outside of the region it's very much like a nobody quite knows and I find that quite shocking I actually went down to the life of development agency in London I tried to type performance artists from Newcastle upon Tyne there was very little info we have a very rich history of performance and experimental %HESITATION it's shocking but it's also not shocking at the same time and you have to take it as it is you kind of have to take the fact to roles you can have a practice here but you may have to explore outside of the region itself just to get back in touch I will say people from Newcastle have a very good sort of hockey communities well we love to celebrate our own when one of our own actually succeeds in something well like yes yes and when maybe against attrition or something let sit self down what kind of like going gods why and they coasted with any sort of tight knit community there's also like a bit of gossip and chatting behind people's backs and it's even done lovingly or it's done with a bit of exceeding it even today anything like contact him sure well I'd like to spend a little bit team now and again okay so the laugh I'm not afraid to basically say to some people I have said to some fairly successful mid career artists bullshit I'm not afraid because I'm now at the point I'm very five I know I'm not going to be like famous all have the money I'm just being honest to myself to the community around me and also just kind of go in like time is precious if you're not going to be honest it sometimes leads to bad situations where is the honesty itself can actually be quite transporters and can help take away some of the egotism the one thing I will say is we can probably do a little bit more criticality but in the sense of kind of going like what being critical but in a supportive manner and I have said some things which I probably put me in the back big swells fewer people %HESITATION I've had a few conversations with curators just kind of going like really but it's just life I love it here it's the one place I feel the most me acts as I tried doing it down in London and London does my head in London's a place I know I have to visit at least may be recall kind that make I knew I had to visit the least once a year because it's just the way of the Welton but if I could help it I wouldn't go down Sutherland as much but %HESITATION I trying to also bring news of new castle to go outside of the region and just kind of go like come yes hello my pipe and done that's medic to pay you just have to scratch the surface a little bit and not be afraid of because sometimes we'll hang about in some of the dingy pilot sometime as well and just be like it's not this bad doesn't let X. I had one taxi driver tried to pick me up once a bank at me just was like well it's Raphael lake and I was like have you been in battle your chest list anywhere like that like I just went it's not that rusty and free and come through Russia places before and I'm just like this is a very thank you so much for this where can people find out more about you and your work query to point them towards online you can look me up on Instagram at St James hold because people also call me desk I call myself sometimes mistake mistake made today one day I hope to be doctor did they also and website I has W. W. dots judge James whole duct weekly dot com you might just want to type in Richard James hall artist of it and just give it a go that's what you know you're on the right page when you see somebody who's just like quite fast with long head and the first images like trust me I'm a slow going like the electorate for folks thank you so much thank you son upset pleasure I always love our tasks and it's not brilliant to have this proper a more formal chat with each day and I really appreciate it and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day thank you so much I hope to get disposable tea with you say please it Hey right I just wanted to see extend my thanks to check again for thanks and I hope that they'll return so that we can go into a lot more detail on a lot of those issues three is there because I think there are things that we started to touch on that merit a lot more dapps but I was recording this for quite a tight time slots so it was a fairly concise conversation so I thought I'd just take the opportunity nine AM I'm recording this in February doing a bit of time traveling because that talk was probably set the thirty year it was originally recorded in January around mid January %HESITATION as early as February and yeah it's really nice opportunity actually there are some Bach over these and reflect on them a little bit and take out some ideas on how you to maybe develop some more of these themes and issues that are coming up across these episodes the next one is going to be the third of the recordings that I did for the S. with Bethany stats so that's a really lovely conversation as well so please stay keep subscribe and then check out our latest file yes so I just thought I'd take a minute because that has been a fairly short bonds is just perfect about more and some of the observations I think there's a lot of crossover here with the professional and the personal three some of the things that tech was referring to there I'd really like take knowledge that we seem a bit snappy up by arch curators and more formal and institutionalized approaches to presenting wrecking galleries and exhibitions I mean I try to be really open minded but you know sometimes is laptop and I stepped up in this one of bets and probably come across is but negative and part G. T. not to create practices we encounters are Ryan the commemorative events for Sally match that we mentioned and those events took place in November of twenty twenty one and I just wanna be radiate beauty care every single person who works in all of those events in the exhibition and everything we all contributed to our time for for a the curators particularly that so out quite great personal cost to themselves and it was hugely stressful under very challenging circumstances I'm very limiting circumstances as well but on the other side of that they also didn't listen to the wishes of those of us who actually worked directly with Sally's pieces and I felt that they made some presentation decisions that they thought looked nice looked as good as they kids and the space that they were given but I think there were others of us he felt that these particular presentations of specific things were missteps I am being deliberately vague here I'm not naming things directly I'm not going to name many people I just felt that you know there were quite a few of us who have a lot more knowledge and understanding of the contacts the rind a lot of the work and physically works with them as well I did a lot of finishing of Sally's unfinished pieces not just me other people that that sort of work as well so there is a lot of very invisible labor that went behind getting the pieces ready for exhibition and also for Sally's physical archives and I just felt that the missteps and hi some of these representatives and the gallery it probably should at a potentially negative lights if your roof year he came in cold and you really engaged actively with the pace and sought its rate I don't think you have come to a very positive conclusion so again I'm being really vague but if you witness center if you seen images of it you might be able to work out what I'm talking about yes but I'm not gonna talk about it directly and there is a little bit of my thinking on this because I I do I wrote a blog post thinking three and she's around part labor and not something I've talked I talked at length with Sally about eats there's also a particular thing that happens with something I mean it's that I posted on my end my personal Instagram page so if you want to go to a gang you're welcome to go and hunt for those but I'm not going to thanks to them directly as I say I don't want to name any names and I don't actually think it's first ready to piling on too much and this is probably I hope the last probably talk about it thanks bye everybody who was involved contributed to with the opposite passive intentions and this isn't hello I think it's worse dying on edge is what I will say I think it's more it sparks rather than the personal it sparked more of an intellectual curiosity about art the upper and the worst of work and those are two things again all things I talk to bite off miss Holly and I keep bringing up on this podcast nobody seems to be getting the message not enough people are listening to %HESITATION maybe maybe everybody less since this gets the message and I need more of these people to listen and get the message so what I would like to say is that I would like to see more respect and consideration for art laborers are two workers and recognition that an artist might have their name on something but they don't necessarily make the work on and Sally's case that was different because she died she was making the work herself and then she died and so a bunch of us finished at or did something less the things that were and transaction but it's something I was thinking out about it a lot anyway with Sam you know sort of more bigger Anne am CMS artists he got loads of money thrown at them or make use of money in the right Sally wasn't one of those people but even still even just out workers doing that Leah Byrne but you I give a lot of my summer last year to doing the work of putting these pieces together and finishing things and I don't care about recognition but what happened in my case was that something of mine was actually destroyed so it's not to stop it you know I don't care about being raised in carpet being visible but something I actually made it and dead with my bare hands was destroyed in the process of this is the way it brandy spun me on a train of thought of thinking about partly uppers and our keepers here at once the CM mass and distinct from artists so this is an issue that was presented front and center and so much of Sally's work to the point that she did performances for what she need pen badges that sads flux worker on them and that was specific to you when she was responding three performance to the flux this retrospective oil tank and two thousand nine and this was a performance that perished but tech was talking about right there an artist's caring for other artists work to really extremes quite funny extremes but also she was provocative of thought and I'll link to some of that work in the show notes and so %HESITATION and turn that's what a few of the state for Sally spark in the year following her death we cared for her work I felt for a person a Costa Sally when I was working with her pieces you know I would have her some of her cations sitting on me while I closed them up and stop is very meaningful because it felt like a kid how good this thing that was part of her and it was very personal but that's not the peace and I'm really talking about aids I think the thing that was really hurtful for me on a personal level was set at an embroidered dedication of very small embroidered dedication I had put on one of the really large pieces I had made artistic bets Sally never called tape was baptized with light me being notified without being asked I turned up to the opening night and I saw that it was gone and I thought I was going mad and on the I had taken a photograph of it at home before I gave it away I knew I wasn't going completely mass on it I had actually so nice then on it was just wrapped ice I was completely gone it wasn't even discovered over it was just gone and so I think there's quite a few here sis because obviously it was personally a bet on the front but then it also files a lot more generally like in the front seat the visibility of the art worker and merging from the artist's shadow and this was something solely did quite a lot and her art she laid bare the process of the worker Ryan to making art if you listen back to my episode with her one of her performances cold making a mass and cleaning it up her whole performance is a bite you know she doesn't aren't working as pages and then most of the performance is actually her cleaning up the mess that she's made for the performance so there's a collapse of the artwork in the art labor and then what is performance and what is just cleaning up the collapse into each other and a very very tiny way this was something I was referencing was just to making the work Abed visible and mine of AC isn't terribly powerful and I wouldn't call him anything like that but it's just in my own little way doing something that I think Sally may have approved often that I discussed with her quite a bit not any other layers thought is that embroidery and needlework are considered as Croft's rather than art again this is something that has come up in the podcast before if you go back to one of our earlier episodes while Coulthard crafts this is something that me and my gas and not absolute talk about it at length as well as what's processes what methods are even considered to be arch so my hand stitched embroidered writing wasn't considered art by these curators and I mean I don't know they're thinking about it because I haven't spoken to me and that's that's part of the problem is that they've never communicated with me I spoke to them on the opening night before I had to realize what had happened and it just even speaking to them for a few minutes it was really clear that the result law they didn't know up by the pieces that I and another person had finished and the pieces that I it by myself had me it's the richest so much detail they didn't have and they have my email address I am easy to reach him easy to find I picked myself all over the internet I'm not hiding anywhere folks again there's a lot going on there so I don't want to just when you bite it too much but yeah so it got me thinking about eight not just for me in a personal level but for just those larger questions I think about it he gets to be an artist walk gets to be an artwork what gets to be an art pro sass you know I think we're still not answering those questions adequately with Sally staff there is no I. another lock and he is asking those questions through the work itself three the process itself and so I suppose I just really wanted to hot spot on because the remains no consensus on high any of these things can really be property defines and he gets said to find not and I suppose a presented us with the fact that there is still very stringent can't keep bang of the bi injuries Orion's creative practice creative practices and so I thought I would just sit through those extra observation site there and just ask you to think about I thought for a bit so thanks if you've listened to my little extra rumbled huge thanks again C. deck I hope that that's gonna stop by to my system thank you for this
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hello and welcome to the official cultures the podcast explores different aspects and areas of arts and culture production I'm Paula Blair and I'm really delighted this time to be joined by artist laurel J. carpenter he talks very generous state by her practice many thanks to members at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures and your continued and much appreciated support please listen to the ends to find more ways to be part of audio visual cultures for now I enjoy the discussion with floral okay certainly I am laurel J. carpenter the U. S. visual art performer currently based in new castle in the U. K. we're meeting at what's probably a bit of a strange time free is that fair to say %HESITATION then fair how much would you like to tell the state where you're not at the moment sure sure so I came to Newcastle specifically to study with Sandra Johnson who is my PhD supervisor here at north I'm really university and I submitted the thesis January third which was its own funny time right after the holidays and trying to manage those personal time scales with this overwhelming time scale of submission and now I'm awaiting my five which is coming up later in the month so I thought I'd feel more free right I wouldn't really expect instead of post submission I I had visions of traveling I haven't been enough to Scotland I haven't been to all the local medieval towns and I was really looking forward to getting to I haven't even been to jerk can you believe that never mind so I was expecting to catch up with all of that and hi Sandra slow time because a different consistency than I expected and it's really funny because of course as an N. body its practitioners interested in theories of embodiment it was in me of course I was having this other experience of %HESITATION I'm really shifted it's not the funny story is I was like a whole raft up so I was going I went to the woman who I buy bread from who I know pretty well trouble this week the relationship and I could feel her eyes widening as she kind of recoils from my insistence kind of conversation and I recognized it and I kind of shifted and wrapped up the conversation it took my breath and went and then the next week when I signed the deal was I like acting weird and she said he had honestly she's like yeah and I saw the moment that you realized it and try to rectify it so there is some different energy that I'd feel and I'm also churning with having means for it there is a slight mocking us I think today it felt a little bit yeah and I just felt I expected to just feel like the kind of cascade of relief and I didn't know I felt like I'd given my child away I was happy to give my child the way I felt very comfortable with the babysitter or where I have the additional layer of so getting ready for the five I'm also performing for the five estimates over two days which the graduate school of thought was unusual and tried to negotiate away from but I'm convinced them and it's appropriate %HESITATION it's a three hour outdoor performance I don't think I could have managed both in one day and it's one afternoon into the next morning but you know for me also then it sets the visa and state which is a moving target and if I'm not in school full time or don't have a full time job I can't stay so the completion doesn't just come with a sense of relief it comes with a sense of unknown and anxiety and the question mark of the future so I'm trying to manage all that but it definitely some of those issues might crop up again as a top three some of your work sure I suppose and we can start and the present and then see where that takes us okay and maybe think it's what your accounts even during a practice based peach state that's right which is a very different experience from doing it yes the eight state and it's really fascinating to hear that there's a performance part of your life then the device if it is a performance in a way which we don't think of heights sure you have to be a specific version of yourself that's right you have to find it somewhere because you may not feel that pop to your heart's content are fine but so the performative elements mean you're planning out at the moment so we don't need to get too much into not nice you want to say maybe we can think about it some of the performance of work that has been integral to your PhD and hopefully that'll open night to your work more generally it is easy for me to take kind of backwards chronologically because the piece on the performing for the five has been performed before it's already that's a little unusual I usually don't repeats sometimes I construct performances that are meant to be interactive so those feel incomplete until it's happened several times but this peas so part of what I did in the PhD is explore the contents of the research through these opportunities I had to redo work and I used it I was just %HESITATION experiments so this fees which is called lineage which is made in collaboration with my long term collaborator was a Norwegian artist trace along and our collaborative duo is called long and carpenter we've been performing together for ten years we made this piece for the Prague quadrennial last summer so it's an outdoor piece the overview of my research just to summarize my title my thesis is this is she and it's an exploration of this really specific slippage of selfishness are you experience sometimes but not even office definitely not all the time in my own performance work that was really different than what I had been reading about with dominant theories of character presents and persona so it wasn't quite any of those in literary theory and theatrical theory and it definitely didn't exist so much can visualize which is the lineage I thought so I spent the time exploring with the work and really finding with the working with the writing what those three outcomes or techniques and their links to a scale of connection that goes from micro to me so to macro personal and I was testing through the work of finding it but then this piece which was most recently presented we did it only a couple of months before my submission due date so it was a lot you know a whole brand new work to contextualize and get into the content of the thesis so I'm glad to do it again to see it again but here's the Segway it tries to incorporate intentionally from the three aspects of this scale the way that I'm thinking about it is the micro is about presents it's about a funneling flow of focus it's about immersive miss there is something in the way that we engage of fairies slow snail pace walk it's thirty meters that we get to in terms of the distance and when we first did in Prague took five hours gonna each only going half the distance because we start together in Minnesota five hours we walked fifteen meters without stopping so it's a very slow engagement so that really creates this immersive experience then it's duration also it has a certain kind of intimacy and what's within just kind of being in it for that long and connecting with whomever might come across in the kind of long term collaborative intimacy sometimes longer and I don't try to reach towards the public in direct kind of internet connection which is just I contacts I use that a lot I like not connection the unspoken bonds she is not the last so part of it hitting all three parts of my investigation was to see if we can really incorporate and then it has this big beautiful make thirty meters the shared dress in glistening saffron I mean it is partly rich orange and then we walk slow slow slowly slowly and then the dress extends and its connect so it's almost like a train it's beautiful in the sparkling sunlight and it's very noticeable and when we hit our endpoints the train becomes toxic and becomes a banner which is certainly a representative of a protest banner and was certainly related to feminist content and we need to movements and there's text on the train that's poetic and political those definitely also investigate the spectacle and how that functions in performance and what offers in terms of maybe a character in in that exceeding the norms is also a resistance so how can spectacle be re claimed to still be a way to resist and there's something really fascinating going on with a simultaneous separation and connections for sure it's not as our work and then she can have like we all we do is look for ways that we long to communicate but let's connect that's been the ten years of our work and it's interesting we first met and she was actually my student from university she was a little bit older she had done other degrees but she came over specifically for the glass department at Alfred which is widely recognized in another part so I can say that there's a strong into a traditional French but she came over for the glass and really found her way to turn the car it's interesting performance video and so I worked with her on her honors project she one of the big awards from her own efforts I was just lucky to kind of witnesses but then some time after that that she went back to her very remote region islands and that's where Alfred university is also very remote and isolated super world it's supposedly six hours from New York City really it takes eight hours however you try to get there and it's the poorest county of all New York state hospitals are closing right so it's a very specific locale which is very similar to where she was and someone that knew us both well listen I'm kind of more friendly capacity said need to having the same experience like two women artists in your remote locations trying to make sense of where you are you should more it was from not that was the criminal minds like that we should talk more and it almost immediately we were really committed we came up on the carpenter and we you know I'm good with all the promotional stuff I used to be a PR to underwrite space so I was like yeah let's make a website and it was really fast that we developed our first three pieces which we developed in tandem call the needs trilogy hunger thirst and shelter so those are kind of devised along in the same thinking process pretty much at the same point right off the bat although it took us a few years to get them all presented and the rest is history as they say when it's taken out it was interesting now to reflect on how we just so sure right away and neither of us had really collaborated before I definitely so we actually met my very close friend also from Alfred university Michelle and auto is a well known social practitioner and she is collaboration line in her teaching and her artwork today said I sat with her and said how do we collaborate how do we start she gave us some pointers and then we started skyping ends so it's going to send you think there wasn't a lot of you know it's funny yes the certainty was certainly intuitive I don't know why we were so sure some of that is I don't know we knew each other so there was a base level trust to their interests have developed and overlap in some places but the rest of her we both maintain a solo practice today says another collaborated another Sirius cooperators who's a social scientist so sharp so the work is closer to the plied philosophy okay she's much more interested in philosophical deep research and she's a W. this follower she really knows that work well and she was a philosophy double major or minor which is the focus that we have to U. S. education she was able to be %HESITATION the hardest full time that was a major focus but she also carried a philosophy sub focus that's certainly propels our conversations but our solo works really don't seem the same at all I mean they're both performative hers can be more installation which I've really left in my folder part of my career there's quite a few aspects we can get into I'm quite keen to ask if I could have breaks sure thing yes it's okay to talk about that yeah for sure so I call this cultural garment fascinating yeah because I feel like cost you carries the routed with theatrical connotations it carries with it the idea of a character ians there's something about it is it the way that the government talks through and has conversation with space dot com's remotely understanding and working sculptured body I toyed with wearable for awhile might even not sometimes I use that but I definitely feel like sculptural governance is what because it's both something about that terminology haven't really thought through this performance it's grounded and that's maneuverable like a garment you can imagine offer on wearables only in one position and it kind of has its own I mean I never show them alone but it has its own entity and has its own identity in some ways it can stand I feel very connected to them as separate from me in a way that's hard to feel in performance work so it is my making that then I get to step back from ends the U. S. of the holder right I'm a viewer of that work in a way that I can never be of my performance work something about making it feel complete on its own a hole on its own it seems like the size of a lot of the works because they become very basic home I go my whole career they say find one thing and you say your whole career I've done that and this may be frustrating looking at images of all of the documentation of a lot of your different so the works where other people started joining yes so that was the first really big dress piece so that which was also when they went back to school in the U. S. education is a little different so I had studied my undergrad I was an English literature students and I didn't think art was serious which I put in a and I wanted to be an attorney I was serious about that's always going to change the world I want to be on the Supreme Court then when I got to undergrad I took a law class and was so deflated because I realize my way was not through paperwork I think some people thought I was going to change the world through paperwork and I have a terrible memory so I was never gonna be able to remember all the precedents which is so much right you have to know and I was like oh no this is everything I've been planning for my whole life is over but I love to language and language was easy for me and I was interested in the play of language the rhythm the psalms and those are still the authors that I love the most the ones that movie with the minimum that the cadence of the pacing in the image and not a very anti plots you can ask any of my friends are like a she won't like that has too much fun but I was also always a very strong trend I could draw away from the hole but I never took art classes even really three university a couple dabbled a little but then I came out and I moved to New York and I was looking for positions in parts of me and I want to work in a gallery and that's how I found my way to peace so those words the supporting arts I've stayed in Boston which is where I grew up outside of their less than a year but it was through that job search that I stumbled upon experimental artwork so my very first job out of the inning wasn't movie yes in Boston which was founded in the seventies by Maryland or something so right had a very amazing awakening to the language I didn't even know I was looking for you know I wasn't okay renderer and I was in okay actress but I really wasn't interested in acting and but that's what I did because it was the only choice through high school and university and I did set design but there's something to functional and I you know just didn't click and then mobile yes of course everything clicked and I was like what insulation and sound art and performance so I was P. R. I think the company the publicist there part time very first job and then my parents were moving out of the country and I was like so I have to figure out what I'm doing my brother was in New York City my university roommates and I'm going to go to grad school at Columbia University come be my roommate got a apartment so I wound up in New York sooner than I would have maybe found my own way then and then started working at performance space one twenty two as the PR director and that was my only seconds away from the my first kiss yes to my first it's one twenty two being a PR person is such a great education because you have to talk to the artists when the idea is still in its infancy because everything has to be done really really have to get the press interested it's nine months ahead especially for magazine articles right that's a six month eight month lease so to get them interested in Karen Finley or demanded a loss or whoever is coming they have to kind of have something to give you and then I would take those ideas in this fledgling kind of %HESITATION snippets of information that they have and be able to put them together into a press release and then watch that develop an altar that conversation I was having with the reviewers and the press people and which that public forum it becomes which I really support but I mean that's the last kind of public discourse in art right not review where or preview it's more like previous relationship and then I would watch the performances every nights I loved it I lived there it was great and then not was how may sound my way and I this is my workouts I feel like take these good rendering skills take this love of pacing in cadence okay language wasn't quite my form that I knew I had an inclination towards those things but I had this kind of visual skill the spatial awareness %HESITATION which kind of start to put that all together and it was again it's always community right community is everything so my first friend in New York Christy marker hits kind of a downtown experimental dancer she was like you're an artist just make this installation for my dance of the all kinds of funky you know like broken down T. you know like lower Manhattan funkeys spaces and all mustard factory I mean it was the beauty of New York in the early nineties and the hard parts to when I moved to New York just in the midst of the aids crisis just in the midst of the culture wars and then I'm trying to do PR for all these artists who are the ones carrying this conversation and this weight on their own practices forward right but then there was so much political amazing work bubbling up through those cracks and I just felt like we got to see it all was great so did installations for many years just and then it took a few years in the old days artists submitted our slides to the slide file I need hope some curator would go through these huge filing cabinets of slides in these Manila folders and hold it up to the light and see something and our curator didn't follow me in this life I'll just from my installation work which was dense and clattered found objects driven and because the found objects I'm sure had a kind of tacit performer in there right because that was all domestic I love the domestic in Hannibal she just was like you could do a performance I don't know she thought I was a performer just couldn't see that potential which is likely to a performance for this opening and I was like ninety four or something we'll take a few years to start and then yeah I need performed installations for many years which comes from that movie S. tradition sure then it wasn't until graduate school should I go back to so far we so far pretty fabric but again I'll be coming back so when I went to graduate school here's the way which was after I'd been in New York for many years post September eleventh I was there for that you know I've been in New York for whatever thirteen years or something my thoughts okay I'm ready to have the next challenge and I was always interested in teaching and I in fact I had one of my day jobs Parsons school of design and after I had stopped and I was an administrator and my friend there had said you know I keep giving you a call class but you have to get your terminal degree if you really want to teach so is that a bit as I left and when I got to my MFA program it was from New York to world Connecticut so it's wide open spaces and a chance to meander and I had a gorgeous studio it was in not space not I decided to separate installation performance and look at them independently and slowly kind of installation fell and performance stuck it out and it came from intuition again the very first recipes which was called red cross stitch so it started kind of in two points one was the sites there's a very locally known hills site there were people going daily walks and has been memorial services and people have become engaged and married it's special to the place and stores Connecticut I loved it there either so I feel a connection to the site and then I was seeing glimpses literally like visions of a woman wearing red walking through forests D. feels like the driving and I see glimpses and I'd be in the studio and I catch a glimpse those were completed for me the site and those images and because the site was local I decided that the image had to be built locally so this the days before the internet support much internet is and I was posting of flyers and putting ads in the little local penny Seaver papers for anyone who wanted to donate a red dress and here's a drop off point or you can mail it to me or I'll come pick it up from you here's my email I received about a hundred red dresses and those were the dresses that became one impossibly long red dress size stitch them completes bodice to him again kind of a train and it took nine months which I thought was interesting in terms of not just station period and stitch them all together and there was you know so the community generated a lot came with very beautiful hand written notes about the connection that people had to the dress and why they were willing to offer it to me because they knew they'd never get it back instead she permanently into this impossibly on red dress and some of it's very moving and I have them together in a binder of all the letters you know it was an elderly woman sent her mother is bogged down from military ball she went to her father the first Christmas infant dress from a mom and one woman whose daughter had taken her own life and she was very funky and she left Tory a most and she had this kind of funky our girls dresses and got one and wanted to meet with me and say you know you remind me of her she would office projects I'm so glad she is a part of it and so then I wore the dress so beautiful day near Beltane near may first which is important to me the time of the year that's most fertile I started just behind the hill cross viewers came at the valley of the crafts and stood in yeah I could feel the anticipation the dress unfurled behind me just a little at a time so as I moved %HESITATION a little more revealed tonight came down the question a little revealed but it was all so if you actually hate crop so the grass is quite tall and then very resistant when it was a lot of friction so it was really hard work and I've never measured each war we need to the dress I know it's a hundred or approximately a hundred dresses and I don't want to know those specifics and kind of name it frame it but's it's heavy we're in a minute you know altogether if it's in this really big crate and I can't lift it by myself so it's a big heavy dress elements in the process of the peace being performed such you know I had plans as a performer you know I had been a performer I knew understood about duration testing the limits I definitely don't consider myself an endurance performer I don't tests beyond my limits and I kind of don't break whatever that foundry is but I like to go up to the limits as much as I can but it's usually time based like on him long and slow and I can get there but I'm not like Aston heart rate on loans so I had plans to like highly dress up on top of me and keep going but I had heard after the fact that huge controversy broke out in the viewing audience and I knew a lot of people there like my parents came up and friends from New York came people from Boston that I knew came and then my own supervisors were there my chiropractor Colin and so it was a lot of people thought they knew right it was a lot of people who donated dresses what I find is most interesting that comes out of that controversy of whether or not they should come in and help me some people were like she's suffering we have to go stop the suffering immediately and that's both of my supervisors were very serious practicing Buddhists so they were like no the suffering is a big part of it right so it wasn't even about the work it was just that everybody's own perspective chiropractor didn't want my back or as the Buddhists were like through this process is the only way right so the work allowed everyone their own space of ownership which of course comes from the way it was developed right everyone in fact wasn't everyone did write those letters I was carrying that history it was the heiress but to hear my mother tell the story of everyone trying minutes is very interesting right she's like who are all these people cleaning a piece of my daughter and her work so people were invested eventually two people came out and helped lift a part of the dress and then everybody rush to see so you know we changed from the sponsoring this acts I was trying to offer right and I think usually like it was this you know I mean it was the beautiful Hillcrest the beautiful blue sky all the beautiful dresses I just wanted to embody that image as an offer and then it became this parades which are things that are more no so I will and initially was kind of disappointed like move just became something comfortable right this is a way for everyone to understand the experience of the parades now the little kids are there and everyone's happy and it's a celebration but you know with time I thought but of course it was there so it could only unfold the way that it you know they needed to be part of it it's so cool mind to put limits on what the offering is like you have to offer and then the way that it's accepted it is the only way so that was an important piece for me because it was the first dress on the love comes in many long dress pieces but it was also the my very first experience of what I have come to terms with yourself their son to remember so clearly being behind the Hillcrest and then taking that first step up and the viewers are down below and there was something that shifted in me I mean it didn't feel like me it was the self more than it once all of them it was kind of collective identity it was all of us together it's funny it feels even message me describing it from back then whereas I've come to really define the alter cells from these three strands but that one that I really felt like my first memory of experiencing really strongly really clearly and it's flickering right because I remember struggling with the dress the other interesting thing is one of the reasons I think it seems to us like it was struggling so much was because that very world military count old beautiful vintage dress which had kind of an under skirts anyway it's just everything really well I mean I knew it was long and happy but that was one of the first ones after me and I could hear ripping I don't know why that dress can't live right at the top right from close to my body what will I do you know when I had a whole harness and everything so I thought I was just gonna walk forward and let work lined it forward but the ripping sound really alerted me and made me fearful and so that was where I flickered in and out of I was this other cellphone %HESITATION I was afraid laurel worried I was running my own performance but then it was the power of kind of the viewers and energy and the power of the dress tugging the words but the ripping sound made me reach back and yanked the dress which was much harder my arms are not as strong as you know my core so I think it was that I was trying to go between them and and my own kind of uncertainty in the event since they were unfolding I think that's what alerted the viewers first to like %HESITATION you know I wasn't so sure I was struggling they had to come it's theirs too they had to come help whatever my intention was whatever you know and all I did was walk down the hill past notes going to disappear into the forest kind about the horizon so wasn't even thought I had a purpose but they were going to come out sports wherever I was going like what was I doing who knows what they were gonna come out leaving it that suffering it sounds like they had real emotional investment and every individual piece of closing this on one thing and have become a community that's right yeah right all of the stories and all of these past people yeah all the center of the pipe these clothes that's right so people must have felt compelled to go well these are precious objects where it's that's right if it had been just one lone tree end of anonymous fabric could might not have I think that's right yeah it's really fast and that's the power of found objects and that's what I loved about I was making more installation work it's the history and the patina liveliness of thought beautiful curious thing I mean as much as I make performance I still love those things I think there's something fascinating about garments that they contain performance they seem to have ghosts of past performance of socks and because they've been worn and they might be stained from a body that occupied the missile war so it's fascinating in that sense as well as you carry more than just a bit of fabric that's right so much more and then the other Norman I think about a lot is when they made a lot of dozens of white shirt sleeve I say this also with their coats men's business shirts okay from the charity shops and those to the because they've been warned before so even before I wore it had that seem like energy I felt that same connection to it so it wasn't about me who had performed and it was about that they were however performed and lives even though they were deconstructed and reconstructed and it was all kind of funny it still carried that and then it's all the people and all the orders and all the things that suggest in terms of both embrace and contain yeah I like that too I like the abstracted guard before that not just a and that's the difference I think even though costumes can be abstracted of course or somehow altered beyond expectation there is still something about its functionality even if they're meant to constrain or something they still function towards not constraining sure makes me think of reading about your piece in Hexham is something where you use different clones I use the red gloves into pieces point out in touch yeah thank you an idea of some kind and quality part of the body thanks so it's in that specific part of the body where it's been very Jastrow expressive part but a part that's external Indian part of he and the idea of you touching your face while wearing the gloves and then discarding them and I feel like there's something there %HESITATION great gathering of the community of things that had belonged to the anonymous other winners yeah and then they change it they go straight when you work with them your doctor and someone comes part of something where you're performing and then the idea of you making it part of your phone to the performance yeah but it still embodying previous people so I don't know there's about those Hexham pieces is so unlike red crest where no one could reach as much as those clubs have the energy and it was certainly inspired by that same sense of you know I was moved by the sight right so I was interested in the tanneries in the history of hex %HESITATION and that's what blows first came from because the curator said in other news B. tennis there's a famous old glove in one of the museum exhibitions I was like wow and I've used arms and I've used loads of kind of parked his gloves before so it wasn't unknown to me but it's I love that feeling of thank something's going on me now I love you I'm a very serious vegetarian leaning towards speaking and I only use leather gloves so like what's that I don't know what it was like I was certain of the history it had to be those old used leather gloves still the ways that I's activated them then didn't allow the people to come through now wasn't the direct people right so wasn't like these are the donors of the dresses and these are just people who are coming to Hexham MP right so it was different their intentions were different like the viewers of red crest came to see that performance where is the viewers at the Hudson county were coming to see that he happens to be there you know there were some specific viewers but it was a lot of tourists just people coming to see the site maybe we weren't able to reach for the material to become enough of a bridge for us to meet but it's also the way that I use the material so instead of putting the dresses on display and you know what was done about that offering a set offering you know four times right at the start time image that everyone to be part of whereas the gloves it was all about hiding my identity or casting the room with the points you know as much as the object has power the performance and the gesture is the power as well you know using these big words power and offering spectacle and beauty but I do feel humble in those using that terminology I feel like I'm just privileged to be able to embody these words these opportunities for whatever short time I get to write I don't feel like I'm the origin of those terms but I do feel fortunate that I get to step into them I mean those are the terms that movie those senses of on kind of the big spectacle extra personal so you know we're on just a speck and there's this big other thing happening those are the words that move me unlike you know other performances that are subtle and saw small I feel like my intense maybe that but it comes across in the kind of this visual display looks like bigger splashes here and I like that tension but I also feel like wait I don't fit physically you know my gestures or make my hair is big my body's big on deck so like I can't fit in those subtleties visually even though I think I'm interested in them emotionally or intentional so I kind of have to do the big word big image that terminology for it to have space for me but then I try to find that place of you know in all of my work is silence I mean sometimes they use %HESITATION but very rarely never language or never spoken maybe only once a month carpenter so like all I have a quiet intentionality but still I'm comfortable carrying I think this is it I'm comfortable carrying the Baker and I feel like you know I have that capability like I can carry that image for wording you all can actually come out and see it like all of you come on rush up to the dress I can do it an interest in those two things I don't really want to do it on one of those very typical loud and since I am single introvert like I can go DES alone in my flat I never want to see a person but %HESITATION laut personable and kind of comfortable even though I need to be alive so I feel like that's in my work to those two things alone in the beauty yeah that's the title of my number one of the beauties perfect I was thinking if I just off the back of all of that idea of taking up space and this is a very feminist notion of the minutes trying to reclaim space and take up space because we've been shocked into corners we have to be as little as possible so it's pretty interesting talking about fitness and not taking up the space yeah so many of your garments they elements of your performances do you take up space for sure overall yeah even if it's your discarding things because not just thinking about the gloves but I remember your pace and being in a few years ago where %HESITATION needles yes that's right so so it's really fascinating you mentioned you were you sign because that was a very even decided peace talks if you're quiet enough you could hear them draw that's absolutely true you definitely one of the few yeah listens very yes yeah you came up right to the end those pins to hear me that piece was developed be an exploration of sound so I think there was no way to avoid some songs and I show this to write so I personally did made vocalization I mean I don't never use something usually not I think that's interesting that tension with the content of the homework because I invited people to make some right what does the lover's telephone with the ten K. so I wanted kind of commotion otherwise I wouldn't have anything to show Shane but I wanted that tension it's funny I just redid one of the very few pieces I have ever read is that he's brought it to also moments I think I did that in December mid December and my submission was early January I mean it was it was so crazy so I think that I didn't want to miss the opportunity to go and not whole festival is about sound inside how to hear our performance so it's like well it has to be tested but it was a different floor was a very different settings when I performed it much longer but the floor was wouldn't it didn't quite want all depends a lot so I found this kind of was a lot bigger so I had to add to some gossips to my address so I had this kind of black stripes down the side of my white dress and I found this black glass square %HESITATION very clean so that became kind of the target in the landing zone of the hands and the pins were I mean for a pin dropping right but so much louder than that other piece and I thought of you I did as I performed a racially but no one else did it was mostly sequential work so I was up on the balcony and installs performance through the whole evening some people were able to come up with the brakes and the other people are performing down and I would try to keep the same performance intention where I was noticing the difference between intentional and involuntary or inadvertent sounds but it was harder because I kind of knew the waves off like now it's a performance and now all the viewers are gonna start chatting because it's a pretty yeah the waves were more standardized but I would perform through the other performance work and usually they were had some of the noise it was about how much you know the whole thing was sound for the very young Finnish artists were performing and they were jingling battles and there were making vocalizations in that piece was really loud and then it suddenly stopped and I didn't have a chance to recognize that before the pencils like lots of that silence and then look I mean you could hear it everywhere and I was like wow this was my piece that was everything this unexpected harsh and look he couldn't really hear that yeah I feel bad that they were like oh no we didn't notice the organizer is a lot of the people that I mean they're they're like oh my god your pins are so loud I was like that's so funny so it's about the size of the thinking you might need it just as extensions if you prefer the status taking up space and some high because remember the precarity of course it's been going on to my second full of me should I am I to go should I get out of the way but I want to hear them so we went to St just my experience as appearance somebody who will speak about checking in getting close to you because I think there is this barrier often that the years of live performance will just not tradition they feel like I'm not locating crucial next year very UK's Thompson I wasn't expecting the viewers here to really there's a comfort in the perimeter yeah that's that the walls and I think that's what I really like I contact because I think it gets people and I've done pieces where you have to hold hands with other things so it's about because I'm very comfortable with coming right up to me okay I'm happy for them I feel like it gives me a purpose it's just a show I'm not comfortable you know but it's again looks like my terminology that I think many people would argue with it's about Hawaiian body I mean it's not how I understand but I like the idea of feminist notion of taking up space and that's definitely what lineage I mean that's part of the subject matter yeah we are re cleaning our voice and we are taking up space thirty meters right I mean you have to navigate I mean people can get around and we're careful about that especially here with risk assessment and awareness but it takes some consider it like you have to get around us when we're out that full extension and even just navigate like what's going on we're connected but which gradually taking up more space and then the tax on the train that was revealed in its batteries here is a silence broken so it is really about stepping into yeah it's a fascinating conundrum I think for two years as well as if you have something like that that is so clearly it's connected and yet it's so long they're supposed to connection and the distance from the performers so there's this question of are you going to talk shit or you like to go up and make it that way talk time with yeah you're looking at it and you're exploring about happy with people yeah could you sort of think well even if the artist isn't happy well they're ten meters away what are they going to do I think I stopped working there so long yeah yeah well I have to say I would not even know I didn't know until I receive the photo documentation how much people like reading a hat we're trying to keep the taxed on revealed until the end although of course the wind blows and you can see it coming that is purposeful but people were like reading ahead like a story unfurling it and checking up everybody had their hands all over and I had no idea I could feel the dress moving but but also kind of gusto like a parachute around us I mean it was definitely a on the move but we tried not to look back in control we had and I like this and that's the quiet immersive flow like I have one intention as a performer and that's to walk head very slowly what a luxury I'm lucky for five hours for three hours for eight hours I got to do one thing I mean months and lists right I mean I feel like all the work that I do in the studio in the office all the applications all the grants and all of it is for those few amazing hours where I get to do one thing and just be in the space that is everything to me as a performer that is everything to me but I think that of course doing that one thing would be different if I was a tough game the other thing if I wasn't carrying that visual if I wasn't alone in the beauty it's all about but I got to be there of course there's all this other worlds that is emerging because of this really you're taking up time as well as space for sure and as you say it's a luxury it's a privilege and a way to have the time to be able to take the time to do that I don't know if it's maybe %HESITATION but connections to the idea of this plan is you know a lot more than that is so there's that and then %HESITATION this notion of man meeting so these three studies when cities are getting ready faster than the flat nose Hey it's the feminization of thought of trying to be a woman who can do that that's why I'm interested in this because it's quite a privileged position to be able to be in yeah and he did this and then the product was not yeah so you can see that you're any images of it on your website you know it's very busy square that you're doing this yeah because it was a big country yeah this is busy the writing so you know people have to as you were saying negotiates with the safety and the space that you're sure Carmen this taking up yet but there's no idea of the time the eagles take to make that movement I made that could otherwise be done in seconds that's part of our our that's right it plays without purposeful why is it taking so long what are they doing yes exactly yeah I like that curiosity when I was younger and stronger I could push gestures that are a little bit more tougher right although I never did a like I said I never was an endurance performance you know I'm not an athlete like I was never pushing those and I'm not a dancer I was never pushing those kind of physical limits but I was stronger I could do things differently and now I feel like %HESITATION the one thing I have left the one thing that's just in my son's so it really can be slow which is much harder for ten days she is fast in her body that piece was harder for her because it's for the five of us in because it's March in northern UK we're shortening it to three hours but it mostly was her doing five hours for that short distance was just really very physically harm which you wouldn't expect right you know standing is hard sure but everybody in retail everybody who has a job workers stand that's what's so tough in the moving forward really is you're moving a little bit soon muscles are engaged but I just think it's the mental and the physical and it's you know when it's trying to gauge the distance and that's trying to just it's just a lot of holding on me just trying to hold on to it so that relates to a different style but I feel like that's true base that she's doing this where is I feel like I can just I mean it's not like super simple and I have to pay attention but going slow is for me I mean it's nothing thinking a very soon a sinister movement you've written quite a bit about this as well yeah I am very interested in it because I feel like just the world is to foster excellence for sure let me tell you that was a big part of my teaching yes which you know I have to say comes from the of all of it Smith when I went to graduate school and about first red crest piece is when I first met marina Abramovich the university of Connecticut such an unexpected place gave her an award of some type of fellowship so she came and she did a workshop with us just a few of us when it was a very small program it was a two year master's program and there were only four or five of us in each year and I was the only person no there were other performers at other times but it wasn't a lot there was a preacher enough video maker and sculptor and whatever very few of us she's all the documentation and she saw the book of all of the red cross students still she gave me one of the biggest compliments I ever had she said you're not like other Americans your true performance of this I take that with a grain of salt more so because I was the PR director performance space one twenty two but I do know what to say because when I was making work in the nineties and New York no one even knew I was an artist because I was making visual art performance and the European tradition and all of my closest friends and people I greatly admire Sallie Mae and Jennifer Miller and Holly Hughes and Karen Finley timer and they make performance are what we call performance art in New York at the time and its tax base it's definitely text and the people didn't even know I was performing I mean and it took me time to grow into it but even how people don't know they're like the New York scene doesn't know me no that is changed when I left New York and went to grad school and then got the teaching position then New York the Bushwick seen angry space developed in reclaiming of the seventies visual art performance is being engage their novels like in both ways I feel like %HESITATION I just missed the communities I didn't fit with the community that was my time the most money and then I miss to the new community of younger artists and that is definitely an undercurrent of fleece my career maybe not of my work but like trying to find the place that I fit and I think that's interesting in terms of the long and carpenter work we are trying to come together but it's impossible to come together and it's a struggle to connect and even though of course we recognize all the ways that we're privileged similar in our privileges are race on education or angel and what you know and yet still the differences make it such a challenge to find a mutual space a space that allows for both of us and we're certainly invested in exploration you know and then of course we're in it together in terms of building the work but if some of that wasn't there they learn interpersonal relationship I can be hard to get to in the work where is that how other collaborators that were just like yeah board even though they may become from other disciplines so I work less regularly with %HESITATION dance practitioner and scholar and musician and composer so our works feel like today's the night we understand our work and our working methods like where both visual artists whereas with these other collaborators with their backgrounds and who are differently gendered like today's eleventh women in those other collaborators both men but they're something of like we just speak the same language or just able to leap over the differences to come to a togetherness in a different way it's very similar really interested in that tension and maybe it is because we are so similar that discrepancies feel huge shift of perspective she and I are working on a book that will be my first publication of our ten years of our collaboration so I think we're really thinking about our practice in a new way and I've been really thinking about our relationship and our practice and our collaboration in a more significant way so it's still juicy to me right it's still like a stuffed on earth there I'm interested in this it's a very hard time when you come to the end of the PhD princess and then one sentence and in another sense it never really so it's nice if you have an overlap something like that but when he came before yeah and only going to continue on and you're going to mark this ten year police that's the end of it it's right it's that's yeah in some ways because I come to the PhD is such a poor person so long practitioner it has been funny when because it does feel more like the PhD was a soldier like I went on this weird trip and it was an intense trip was like suddenly I'm climbing Mount Everest but it didn't feel like of course I didn't move but it didn't feel like %HESITATION I moved house and I have a whole new life it just felt like I went on a trip and I hope that trip changes the immediate propelled me to move house but in terms of where it falls in my career and how much career I've had before the PhD is short even though I felt I mean I certainly felt it's right then I did it through menopause so doing that PDP menopause may say I demand an additional letter I'm one M. P. H. D. and I was like in you know what all the new mothers can also happen and I said that to someone and she said oh no don't do that because then it'll be devouring everyone with an M. P. H. D. will be lesser you know what is our world right well I don't want to H. D. even though of course I understand I was engaging through my own stuff in a way that was unique in so many ways like in the research and my body in the place that I lived in my lifestyle so that intensity definitely felt like I was on holiday this was a vision quest of some sort but it doesn't feel like it's life defining maybe it'll shift my career a little and I think it has you know on my engagement with research is different it definitely ended up new ways of theoretical research for me which I was interested in just not to this I just never was able to get this down but I already feel like my olds needs and the demands of my life job searches but also just life peace and life structure I can already feel them coming back the soldier this is winding up but I'm buying my tickets home and I think what I define as Holmen AB has changed it's still a different place it's still place I'm heading to that isn't so sure place I thought that totally through but there is something there ask me again in a year yeah very different it's transient people do say I talked to a lot of artists who are of my generation including my very close collaborator the dance artist Robert Bingham who has come over he spoke I developed a %HESITATION symposium and he was one of the speakers so he was invested in this process and I knew him he was a visiting artist and long term lecturer also where I taught and then he laughed and he had more of a visiting contracts you didn't have the tenure track contract like I did so he always had the trouble with the contracts but he finds like I'm done I'm going back to get he got his PhD and so that was the first inkling for me like %HESITATION I can leave this position and maybe do something else and he said it took him a year to understand how his brain had changed and the agility of his thinking he didn't even recognize until a year after he had completed everything so perhaps the store space right can't see no it does change you think psychologically as well as mentally and emotionally it's a massive thing today fingers crossed absolutely relieving at a time when you're as much as anyone facing on certain things first like so much of the world yeah they but feeling it seems very positive it does not really test the quality of work and then three years or so that you've been here as well as what you've done before so then there's going to be thanks to come fingers crossed all I can do for all of us really that's what I feel like you know like let's all just keep moving into our future let's keep bringing our values to the forefront as much as we can there's a lot to resist yeah and let's keep doing it together hello thank you really good practice for me yeah it's good for me to talk about the work so thank you for the opportunity very welcome thank you so much for your time thank you you've been missing two audio visual cultures me Paula Blair and my very special guest the world J. carpenter and huge thanks to a deal to retain a new castle for accommodating our interviewee this episode was recorded edited and produced by Paula Blair the music is common ground by air soon licensed under creative Commons noncommercial three point zero license and is available for download on CC mixer to Oregon if you like what we're doing please help make production and distribution costs with a regular payment celebra pay dot com forward slash P. E. A. Blair or make a one off donation J. pay pal dot me forward slash P. A. Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday subscribe on your chosen app so you never miss an even race you can find the full back catalog on you J. Davis at audio visual culture style wordpress dot com or follow eighty cultures part on Instagram the navy cultures on Twitter and Facebook for more information and useful thanks thanks so much for a lesson on catching next time
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hello and welcome to audio visual cultures a podcast that examines aspects of signed an image based cultural production and its implications and wider issues around it I'm Paula Blair and the host and creator and I'm very pleased to be joining you this time from Belfast my home city I've come over for a bit of the visit and I'm recording this short introduction during a while Kerry that rather lovely botanic gardens and so I spell fast I'm very close to the awesome museum for a bite to mates as their assent the Maria Torres she is an international nines performance artist and action artist will hopefully have a really fascinating chat about her work that you'll get a lottery does justice saying it really big thank you to everybody who Spain sharing and liking and engaging on social media it's a really huge help sabi ko CA and thanks as well to our regular supporters on Patreon there aren't many if you put the ones you have are so appreciative of what each day to find out how to support us financially and how to support by sharing and social media stick with us at the end and I'll be back with information about that person I I really hope you enjoy this conversation with my name is Sylvia Santa Maria I'm originally from Mexico I'm a performance artist I now based in Northern Ireland in Belfast I have been based here for almost ten years between Mexico and Belfast I must say that I travel a lot because my work performance our demands on performance there are other terms I think could be maybe just unpack some of the terms that we can apply because C. D. pro sass arts and a range of different approaches like performance installation and action art how do you feel about the sorts of labels on your work what do you feel it is see J. in Spanish I use the term October action out of the action on the generic for dot con to call her performance art durational performance process are osis gesture starting to gestures to combine with photography order performance installation I told you and maybe something else I'd like to label what time do we because that tells me not to classify the No Way or organize only certain ways to perform but it kills me to reflect what time what is doing it for four months what are the elements data for performance art in how are you really working on that for example time would correspond to rational performance if I'm interested in the process how one working with time that is very important to focus on that and also to save people this is about time so I said I'm going to do our process our process peace means that I'm not aiming a resort but to go into a process that people connect with on this end to intervene the proposal of the materials the space and certain principles of I'm going to apply we take us somewhere in a journey in that process for the support and even called a chamber performance our performance that happened in a close call she space give me the chance to deliver some people focused on that without any disturbance maybe I can arrange in a wake up lights to make something special like it maybe in the Asian chambers chambers C. new Grange you know there are places something this special hop in there and we need to place for example that is the need for me to label but these are more of a work of conceptual work in my in performance art or action thank that point if I indication then you work and site but there's a lot of our site as well a lot of site specific where I'm just thinking about it any work you've done in Mexico and I've seen images of and there you may be dating last things like violent or traumatic memory you know I've seen images with the with the channels and your toes and the objects that you'll find in claims and the actual landscaping things what do you feel are the differences are in the different materials with the spaces that you're working with it whether it's between an indoor event or something like that that's an option for me is very important to consider a space or even fifty tuition costs part of the larger war or even an element that will be fine what to do materials as well I used to say that I don't use I don't materials I dialogue with them I really am not using any I don't think I don't know what the space I don't know what the situation and I dealt with the materials that cost to be really a concentration focus there that we can be part of like the famous they we can collaborate with me I if I don't need your vote to eliminate them that is based for example on this the streets and to I have to consider that to be a part of that if a person is only because I'm in the public space and have to deal with that part of the not a problem that comes in the store I would never consider dot on it to come the firm of architects the allies he Katie in the reality social physical political reality in that context tweet anything so we have to be prepared for yeah really stating that we have to be awake in the moment to take on all this and just thinking about you saying collaborating with the winds I think probably one of the first actions I ever saw he was on Helen's bay at the base something with I think it's been liner by the plastic banks are you know when hi I'm making huge string of I'm so there's these beautiful shapes Manson across quite make area spans with the by do you have a name %HESITATION what do you think it is in general when they do these kind of works I don't have any title actually did try to come up to I kind of took the country deal for me but for my company I don't know what will happen in for me the title of puppies a performance or even to conserve told the station customer come up before I'm dealing with the reality that I don't know that because I have experience I could visualize something but you never know and I know that's a performance artist because the prices kind of company and even with very simple things like the plastic white box I said okay this is three may be able to afford in the night twenty two with many many I didn't know how it's going to take a look at that and then I remember rob myself you don't die didn't all these plastic possible when my body was also part of this process that they didn't know that I wanted to do so it's quite late today so the captain and I make might make my notes and reflected sometimes I found poetry that is correct so the title or the name even the concept of the station deeper way state because I have always had previous idea permissible to do have always finding the show lady but afterwards because most of the production I thought some of the Titans it's a nice idea that idea of collaborating with the elements arranging because you're harnessing it but then you being close to asylum in Europe but against yourself or you're just finding a way of visualizing the wind away almost do you find the right to come something your work quite a bit the eighty three two or repetitive actions other things that you need to work through for no for our work in different ways it's interesting for me because I can tell you I've never seen this before yeah sure and we know that always really never the same but I'm not really interested to get this talking please yeah I'm really interested to explore again and again with some of the material the space over my phone number to the station when I once and even if people like it if I didn't like it was not on the way to discover something new or even just to do with the way I want I go again and repeat the idea for me to %HESITATION when I step to the performance in nineteen ninety two tweet I really made a kind of rituals really we kind of believe it really performance of sometimes with my lord I have a Norse there to take my blood tonight make with that tweet hold to watch the storm can I make a transfusion of my block to the store calling eight I think I called that performance no nation for that you can use like fire force anyway the doors I kind of chamber performance but better to only stick with many elements the only element we told that the west not to repeat it to you to repeat but yes many elements Qatar sees not told is a ghost which to cut taxes but to storm performances in the beginning of my practice what really good tactic people cry and I didn't the card to myself like that but that in no way the bees make people enter in a story forty nine number to leave in a story that the narrative that triggered something in them but to also give them a space in a place to deal with emotions sometimes if you don't understand what what I was doing but to hold when you do decide I cry because I went to the store anyway sometimes I do something like a kind of ritual for example the last performance I have children dead weight was smoke portrait I smoke a trust the last of my face seems like I'm burning my face but just the glass enough to turn the glass is covered with the smoke in my face disappear and I'm dressing in black and I'm four and then they do something like drawing back to smoking make a drawing on my face on the smoke inductees in the meantime we be done several times only performance the door was with variations introduction or a DM depending in the place in the culture with the people I am is not the same when I do we do in Latin America Mexico when I it's not the same but I D. N. the big element that people seem to want to I want to bring them burning smoking the glass have you noticed any other differences in hi spectators react between Latin America and Europe or UK or Arden's and terms is it cathartic in fact some of the aspects of it do you find that it's different emotionally or does it depends what kind of thing that you do yes can be very different from one culture to another depends query takes place if I do the street actions usually mural people tried to ignore it because many think Scott people don't want to be part of a joke Suffolk County Kameron I didn't this time Mexico for example in Mexico and Latin America in general people in the small room willing to assist you they didn't have a problem with it usually they are going to do that you'll have a problem he's ordered to ask you what is going on or they take time to stand in front of the jewel in the center of your to be read out what you are doing and it's not the OSC in Dayton literally I mean to run because people want to talk about and I like that because I kind of stopped to talk about when I speak with people I'm not talk about all these performance on to my lord no I'm talking about people what is the concern of people that they have seen in my password in Europe is difficult in Northern Ireland people come to that the two people can be very tough officer Blane performing my life and I'm learning approach in public space but he told the people depict the culture of the city sometimes the point of a person passing by in doing something the artwork could change completely upside down and I have to be prepared to embrace it and continue with that change the issue of contingency is a really quickly one and performance art invites Martin general where you see artists are the most wonderful person in the room or the area whatever it might be because anything could happen and I think most audience members we tend to stand back and think there's a natural barrier that forms probably because we are fairly cherry and spice cinnamon cedar to not step over us wrestles you can comment for everything and you don't know if you're doing something I decide whether somebody's going to come up in a call she or demand to know what you're saying or whatever it's really fascinating to think about cultural differences from place to place where you might be doing that because you're internationally performing all over the world the T. or so I'm very conscious about would do or say to please recent history and help people close to close and sell the motion to vote for the motion on the part there there was a bunch of sometimes the mechanisms of resilience mechanisms in ourselves too close for many things portability so violence aggression and you can see their doctors performance Oct is a notion my purpose or my aim is not to make myself vulnerable even if I become a notable because I go to a public space for example can I do something that is out there your phone calls and that is a provocation wanted or not it's a privilege log to I'm interested to learn it do not force them to be very conscious what do you want to do that what do you want to be at the front of the to be you want to give something to people something for sixty think about something negative %HESITATION just self assessment data always is good to get the results you want and then okay now I want to do this because I want to tell this to the P. ten something like a one people for example something that maybe should have them connected in order to the city that is very strange like in a dream what happened to me and then maybe he does and then one of these options might be part of his life like a dream to work something out something in the deeper or any different levels maybe being forgotten it's quite we need to know very well already tensions in public or in close indoor spaces because I'm not sure really it really is powerful thank another person tweeted I did talk about any exhibitions you've been part of his wild because there are times when you're not necessarily working life for your working life as part of this may be a collective exhibition or something like that and there was one last year and I didn't get to see it unfortunately but you were part of the points arts festival just a few months ago we check to tell us a bit about that yes I was invited by the human don't know debt to be cold Connery with another four artiste female artist to make this exhibition what sort do make exhibitions but he knew that we had some remarks that might be interested to see a site or performances I present to that came out to a follow up persist please that they made enough Salvador so I wouldn't dare to a village that ten seventy one a big muscle car thousand people children women and old people were massacred by the Salvadoran are they wanted to call today resources in the sympathies in a radical way to the curriculum and the massacre many many people and I want to go with them let's see what happens after so many years colorless the please help people cultivate their memory hold the memory of help people leave after that because they're still alive people so when they're in I was speaking with people some crucial for David please I mean all the people living there had lost a member of the committee in documents in my process I want to walk to the healers people describing you know here the girls of the village were taken and raped and then more of the same wasn't very very strong so was so strong and so hopeful that in one moment I asked myself how do he and B. anyway some of the stories that way and then I'm going to focus now in this short sure wait in the gallery these are a settlement on how to approach is there these are proces it was just there looking at that very very rare it was very busy because he's really like which is the quality of the soil but anyway it makes total sense the next step to discover these because people and then a person from the village told me maybe there are many the army said there are shopped on the village no wonder everyone to just the food to be destroyed this call for those so was horrible what's that mean island's western made I used I stopped him I didn't want to do anything on March because I felt overwhelmed by that and then they start just to I don't want to safely but in no way to explore explore the quality physical quality and I reached out the image putting these past conflicts between my toes and then I said this is the steps of memory I told you before that the Titans come after hours many hours I was three days many hours only for that picture and I said and then I published in my website sure so that and he told me I wanted that is the way to continue to be a part of an exhibition for cities even discover any image through a process or sometimes a couple ideas maybe I need one of these buttons it's going to show me something for many times these different articles and then I said this is the picture but anytime there's some conformity that supports in a kind of investigation I mean much of the day delivered a summer photography or even up the deal if you haven't done much the title of the exhibition was I stepped outside and she stepped in again yes it's really fascinating title and then just what's come out of that one image no be say that was an amongst other works by other women artists but that idea so I stepped out and she stepped in again I'm thinking about eight different steps that you're maybe re treading but you're walking amongst where people had been before Ford violent things that happened before it's a really wonderful title that fits you come up with that title was huge because he wanted us to perform in maybe create a dynamic performed together and create a dynamic where we come in we need collaborate by taking the place of the order maybe the materials and three troll %HESITATION Israeli Spanish writer on women's issues including back the action to maybe just Peter over performance all performance in become really gauge collaboration that's why he decided when he told me and they even took photos over his performance would be part of that in nineteen really emerging in a kind of Oregon these elements of the older participants I was really rooting for me and very interesting to develop these dynamics suggested or proposed by him I was wondering is will affect the use of body performance argument that's your primary to really as the body but this one does body come up or do you think it comes up as the same very much in your work or is it parts of the body because I mean what if just talks but there is centered radio on your face my feet are doing and where they are and what they're engaging with you know or and other works is seen you do it you're putting something together with your fans wondered what you thought about that to you how much your body comes in what is the ideal body or their relation to deal with B. the parliament or so given that we are for some performance artist especially jumper from one side to the domino in the sectional very often %HESITATION moment in our lives I'm very concerned about so they go to the polls the naked body or difficult to explore our or expecting any closer to the house in relation with that sexual or gender equality I was never interested in that I was never had this concern the day was considered in depressants Dodge journey for stability to be president the president is more complex the presence of body odour mental faculties believes no also because you'll be late with your your body my word my body is my presence in my presence I want to bring with this residence reveals something can be on a hunt can be to hit could be the whole body I used to dress in black to neutral is a little bit in the meeting but cannot because of the lack of custom made but anyway do not put all the content that I don't want people to focus and then explore and explore the reality of the site I found that my body will perform I wanted to make the I went to benefit to local deadlines I didn't want it to stay which is I mean you know Salvador I felt so so bad yeah and I felt that that was such a kind of sacred line of people to die innocent people and I do want to stay yes Sir six quite when or then I discovered that happens like that usually my performance or could I have a clear idea of what they want to engage my body the way neat but for me it is all right I think are you more likely since the mind body yes not only me but my place to get the police report I don't want to be by did make these two companies in this one this one is the way to be a person that is more than the body but we don't that body I cannot be if it's all right then three thank you bye your collaborations and your work is part of the collective be beyond based in Belfast maybe some of the events connected right manager involvements you on your own in your own right sure and international artists and you perform follow and everywhere else and have collaborated twice many different artists as well but hi does not compare with being part of a member of a collective and how important is being part of a collective and what you do as well four means he's fun tastic that to be beyond axes a subgroup that diversifies at the same time in a collective collaborative group to perform and also in the group that organized and tried to promote performance there's different aspects BBM and sometimes for me so I need to the morning one or another sometimes I need to promote events some ideas that I have in in I collaborate with the committee notice from others to enjoy because I enjoy very much when I perform in this way black market he is one of the few collective soul groups the company's two lasting D. for performance for me but the social collective organized a couple yes to promote but also defended the art because easy to establish performance not only in the art scene and then the country bought in dialogue with the people they're always there something wrong oversees the store being close to someone that is part of existence I think it's part of racing questions through in the particular way to collaborate with them easy to resting spot sometimes I don't find any connection with them there's I don't find that they've really collaborate they repeat and repeat and repeat very much the same there's not really risking then I got part a little bit I am but I support it so we need to collaborate you don't and I'm going to just call me when I find a good idea to collaborate for me there's not collaboration if you choose to be to get them to do the same for me this is not collaboration collaboration is a dialogue in these are the date I debate in action that kind of report I've read really the margins of reflections in poetic that the business section talks about repeating monthly meetings maybe doesn't allow us to read actually now that I don't know if you decide to rescind that we don't have the time to reflect well we have we need to propose into work how to come together in different ways what do we need to debate not only in that to reflect about what we are doing in other teams around the practice I suppose and if it's okay can I ask you about your experience of being in Northern Ireland you know what's that like for you as an artist trying to work here in Maine he said earlier this is been the most challenging probably place for you to perform the check on my lamontagne times you know I've spent a lot of time when I was living here going to the baby on this month place and being quite peripheral to those things you for a while I think it was almost my own spoken job to be the person who media's it's with the general public and people would be up at free excited by what was going on and so I was the person say their artists you know they're just playing there just having playtime attention you can join in a few months you know and you get talking to drug addicts or alcoholics that we're sitting rounded writer square or families on the beach and that sort of stuff I was quite fun for a bit but yes it must be I think because here and it's okay for me to say this you never know when it could tip over into violence there's always a hint of a threat there so is wondering how they how do you feel how does it affect you being here which is in general Northern Ireland has been difficult for me it is a very different culture no the Mexican language I thought that date I mean the list within the but if they told you before this interview I'm kind of dyslexic that when I need to speak another language and my in the last maybe two years it took a little bit with the peak in March in the war so that you see what is the weight what is good for that but it has been very difficult the language especially the information with the performance only in public spaces when I do something in the same sort of space accent but I'm very interested to explore on my own and I can donate the public the space in really enter into a dialogue with people and if I get that that would be a big achievement for me have a big achievement in you for something solo and Kamera so I can buy some witnesses and maybe a camera connecting couple but from far away and let the action speaks for itself and see if I can connect with people of people even if they don't like it I can make a dialogue with them engage with you know they go with them it reflects that this is my name but for me to be a great country another thing that jokes because just on all the general it is very important because it is part of the eighty group or a social construction group but I also like once I realized that I the store to the context six people mostly that I don't know what Nigel cracks I explain joke is is what anyway because the two ladies with identity and identity has to be with the authors and the authors important this could have been made one tree speaking this country like China the weather the weather or see something else I need some but I did maybe you don't like like before but they could see their myself with a good performance artist would make problems in action yeah I mean that I learned how to feed myself please continue to leave the country how to make the best what I have and then I I do like rainy days but that's because time to before and read and write it's waking them up from they're working retain muscle awhile ago I'm just trying to think back because this is probably a few years ago nine a lot of the places you were doing was sold I'm worried in case of mixing it was Brian as well because I I know that what she did when you were lying on the crimes and the soul was on a black sheet or piece of paper or something but ever since I can remember anyone that was an umbrella yeah so that will miss in Germany which has been using salt is immaterial I use for in the same way I have the two all the time to come from the only two time off to work this one in Canada in two thousand seven I made up Rosi's there three days four hours per day with a couple different elements and I'm all those I was when I start to blow Seoul nice way to shape to draw some something you there was a accident on the floor that makes something and just for me to do that in the that day do you have for a while indeed my lord king other concerns about makes you call that like to know about the situation come try G. I put in this short to express something about the former got the idea to draw down makes the kind for a long time and that took me down to Mexico Oaxaca in the contemporary art museum in Oaxaca forty days eight hours per day I started with for mountains he also talked to the middle share and that was great was when the camera filming it was an exhibition at the same time you enter a room one got into two rooms the first thing you find out who she each each time and then continue to the next room and I'm I didn't see that coming this is very high you see only me working there and then when you go to see them up because there's less is more please for forty three days she makes I don't I have to make these these Mexico what kind of what we did tonight any of these G. G. we have a big disadvantage of Mexico and I agreed from that time even the drug dealers that's to do with these two countries so I want to develop that is why I made to September last September the second part of this project and they need to go to the United States to freeze I kind of decided have some chances I hope so I'm not thinking about it yes but also the joker fan of these places and geopolitics as well that must come straight whether even if it's not explicit but it must be an implicit same coming straight weather here and Mexico Canada and the states anywhere else in America or here in Northern Ireland to miss Mary Anne I guess you mean has anything been coming up with by borders and borderlands something that I need to find ways to get into it maybe they don't have to go posted June or in England maybe which the two went to concrete to %HESITATION to finish this idea these three countries and I have to be very interesting responses from both pieces Dr command tonight this call for dialogue and what that common sense not to send people to drive to the east coast to debate I was thinking because it's such a huge confidence he feel like comment that it's so far away from Mexico but really you're quite close neighbors in terms of there's this one country between you but actually that joined together in this he comes in and the miles so what were the responses like in Canada when it was shaping that tomorrow blowing it up by blowing it's not like your pain and try to make the proportion you know when you start to having office space to shape also United States in a little bit of Mexico but the main west kind of many people most interested in the meaning of what and I think it was interesting for them because it was you know he said the first question first question that salt mine but so many people was thinking what is the meaning of this concern you know thinking to talk them through their superstitions to I'm leaving meaning so we just have to perform that Mexico they all it does I think people that think that they don't believe in such things I would like what they want to like themselves to call them to make sure we have connected with the means we learn the number five our own and and then people just have to be concerned two courses also with salt but then there's other stores that I come to you short for example was used by the Romans cartage rebuilt I guess the Roman Empire in the Roman Empire defeated them they went to college and they must occur to people and they I didn't always short field landing fields to avoid to grow anything in many many years really but not to the concept that thank you to the store the people there all the all the people that were on but what's an effect on the and I thought it was the leading lady if your economy politics kind of countries in the country the launch of the countries in the last week yes yes that I could see the doctor to see these these economic twenty not to start Mexico to form in the crisis finish I called now with the new government talk to the call to solve many problems posted Oct the staff this is huge the problem is too big too big to be sold in six months but yeah I pointed I mean the legacies of colonialism on where another anywhere say that country if something is taken away from them your crafts or something and generations go by and the countries that originated thought to them saying Friday that love them and pay the people dying and don't align migration well actually it was your ancestors did it to them in the first place that's why all these problems arose and there's no then culpability there's no responsibility so maybe it's reminding people of that as well at school are white people and sensors because kind of problems in the heart we need to go to history memories we need to reflect what happened before they call me many of the economy they're not interested in politics all right right eight the right side of the duties individual concerns do you it is good to based on the biography we dialed the number you'll receive an introspective but I don't know if you ask me in my right he's really optimizing industry making more individualistic society one thing about this and last year or two years ago goodness it wasn't twenty seventeen in public you propose dot just a simple soon but that project to tell some fourteen and then I couldn't be here but the development assistant position and I think it was great we had the chance to see officials about performing in in what he but for many people we had some potential ideas ideals we are doing in the for example just before about speaking with people was watching outside yeah I think otherwise and we're really not committed to dialogue with people I think the schools these about these and other issues in from the west wind the only thing that the top very few people that is my only the rest was well organized and we need to continue that dialogue I have very fond memories of the site just happens to be in Belfast the way that it was happening and attended it huge monthly meeting that coincided with it people around that was not just the Vegas that file faster Northern Ireland ever seen but it may have been the biggest collective's performance action ten year effort because there were so many people there I scrambled around in chalk on thurs is right on the grind what people were doing in the you know so that was amazing but also what made it ready for me was that there was also this was an custom size square and both fast and I think it was said by gang or remote but I can clover something had also made that their meeting point at the same time for Hugh charting they were having so these chi quite massive sayings descended on this on the square in the city centre at the same time and we're perplexed by each other and it was incredible it was just something amazing and so the idea coming back operating with whatever syringae they couldn't help you find the same space I have to just exist side by side for but to truly do you try to go by we occupy we didn't give them much space to their he had to leave but anyway that was the potential for a please take therefore may be called for commenting laughing and all that one was okay not to any conflict there but didn't get it was fun moment that will keep me busy I the people to to come together usually he's here when a person decides to join or even the twenty five it was a bit difficult but I wrote feel free to join and talk in the growing nobody nobody second no because I had decided to be silent but it just right I was just describing everything that was not nice is right and she keeps saying you know I don't know what Chris still staying or Sandra striking a plan to really you know stuff like that just trying to make a pass on the insulation it was overwhelming how many people it was incredible more people in the state just to see what company it was classified it was quite remember it was unseasonably warm April day and there was I remember a woman sunbathing and she was there the whole time and she was still there when she made my cleaned up and she was still there two hours later when I went for the ball set so there were people he hung around and asked what was going on and some of the side of the side and just tried to explain it but hi could you explain welcome I think just curiosity and I can not coming from a place of either failing or demanding stress but just what's going on here all these people and when you explain to them what was happening this song okay well I'm here so this is what's happening then so it was kind of accepting expose it was a kind of critical mass that the depressed people to say okay there's a movement and Sir anything you would like to talk quickly detected Silas suburbia but something you're going to be working on %HESITATION ideas she got fifteen years working now in the project that calls for machines I plan to keep workshops which I call laboratories for people to they do reflect how he sees many things hello I'm not sure my gesture practice discipline whatever you want to do my instructor might help if you need an accountant or some kind the two point three wait to see yourself more positively when you achieve something in action in this position because I'm going to do it in Mexico I'm really committed to going to laboratories shops in different communities just trying to help this regarding the violence hi top in his company and his company HM my practice and also in the middle of some process that some patients to perform with black market it is still on in other exhortations to perform so is the best place to keep up to date with what you're doing with that P. on your website to publish some information on the place some place to perform and what is coming and I wanted to talk more of it although this is a project that I'm organizing with brand partners in this part of the IBM project this year in these human this process a performance artist I'd work is going to happen the week of the international women's day I proposed this project to be beyond the question all the members of the emergency more than seventy two hours and then we don't have something to just to focus and see what is the practice of mobile for most artistes in addressing the issues to the school so all that said that that week the technician and the second part would come may for twelve that's a nice thing often been talking for over an hour so thank you so much reading really wonderful thing the audio visual cultures with me call up there and my special guest appearance on the media this episode was recorded and Belfast and edited by all of their music keeping hearing aids the common grind by air shown basis under a creative Commons attribution three point zero and Stein noted both from CC mixer dot org if you are in doing what we're doing and you find it useful and interesting and you want to help us keep making more and to keep improving with every episodes please please please support to fire patrie on dot com forward slash AP cultures it's quite easy although it's in U. 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hello I'm Paula player and G. are listening to audio visual cultures the podcast that examines aspects often issues around forms and modes of imagine sign based cultural production thanks to all our Patreon members and to everyone who's been listening sharing and engaging on social media to listen until the end to find out how to use this time I'm delighted to present performance artist Sinead o'donnell Sinead very kindly let me record to talk and performance she said with her exhibition at the millennium court arts centre and poured into line which is here after a few words for me recorded before hand and some of the signs you here are from shin it's performance that's probably one time in the millennium court arts centre and poor design and northern Ireland it's the afternoon of Saturday the sixteenth of February the moment man in court has an expression on by Sinead o'donnell Coles crossing permissions she needed as a performance artist Richie from the Republic of Ireland unseasoned base in Northern Ireland for quite awhile now she's going to do a performance on talk from twelve until one so few of us are here font just having a quick look around in its exhibition there's quite a lot going on here in general terms its performance tions and a lot of the work around the gallery is documentation one way or another of the actions might be photographs videos but also the detritus from live performances the materials on the floor and also closing that Janet had been wearing during performances or materials she was working with her not hanging in the gallery almost like documents themselves as well as materials to the palladium crossing permissions I just read the gallery tax here crossing permission since a year long project where artists Sinead o'donnell travel today if trump works with women in Tokyo Montevideo final Saturday some Paolo Fulci shima Bangkok solo and ported dying each residency forms and exchange ideas and experiences between Sinead on the women the Senate then making a performance and exhibition reflecting on the issues section basin features elements from each resident same place photographic sculptural performance art and video works a comment from Sinead crossing permissions as the title that I used to describe a process that was like an unraveling of south arch and others three or driven by feminist feeling sorry my performance practice as a project crossing permissions for me was about mutual exchange living and working alongside women shared my stories and they shared there's this is a project commissioned by millennium court and supported by the arts council of Northern Ireland major award that flax art studios arts center ongoing Japan exchange residency British Council north and Ireland in Armagh city Banbridge Craigavon borough council %HESITATION you know I'm sure they %HESITATION this is my project transformation my journey started Montevideo Uruguay and %HESITATION I was researching and investigating seven seven seven seven landscapes hello I could create incentives to a lot of the work that I've made this plan requires little moments and remembers was not so it's very interesting to see farmers is the only witness and if you send your resume to liability the six pieces here each it was a big deal which is the C. between Uruguay and Argentina this is a civil rights so that is a lot of my work C. like doctors because they quite falsely subsets I was surprised at the times of the day when the light changes also read different countries there is always a set so it's like a light just close all the way interested in the light in the light it had the body can take different formations according to the latest this is because of the emotion the reason I called evil genius is that she is the goddess in this specific beach and Rovers in the engineering see part of their religion is to worship this god S. so they were shipping twice a year the end of season so that's the significance of the location as I said I don't rehearse my work I trust intuition of spontaneity although I do have an idea and I do have to settle where I'm going to go I'm never particularly quite sure until they begin what the action is going to be so I use rice paper and I work with the rice paper in the city %HESITATION the rice paper it away anyway I moved it I'm drawing the rice paper but it's not the traditional drawing with pencils it is drawing through action so these are the paperwork this is a big business so it's quite fascinated by detainees inside the city I wish and they didn't want to put a little bit so that I wasn't expecting that so became really fascinated with traces of what is drawing drawing is an action whatever stands in graphite pencil I'm using the location of the accident also the rice can become extremely happy when it's inside water so it wasn't easy to try to save it or put it behind me wouldn't this be if I had a lot of feelings about migration and immigration and the sea crossings and that kind of desperation particularly for somebody who is trying to escape or so it also means that dissipate and what it's going to be like to be refugee so why not make it to work a lot of calls come through also in terms of this stress the stress for me represents immigration and this was a dress I wore myself in my everyday life but I knew that I was going to use it in a performance so distressed traveled with me for a year it gradually became more for state so here yeah the jurors on the top the more I was making the work before I was using the dress you can change it if you like this article addressing became an art object kind of has a personality of its own in the field quite a distance from it now I think if I hadn't have exhibited it I would still be using anymore and there has to come a time or the right okay I'm finishing this piece that also is very common in my work is I have a whole wardrobe of clothes that are staying away before missus and I keep it in my head this is what you do when you see me in jeans and T. shirt because I don't have any health data and use that because I have to have an attachment to the government I find it really hard to just go out and buy clothes for a performance I have to have some sort of attachment to it or has to have some sort of memory is a memory for the original memory so this is %HESITATION my partner's permanent residence card process which was very daunting and this is the dress I bought for the party to send anything via an aggression on migration of women %HESITATION mythology moving from this piece about I also worked again with rice paper because I was so impressed with his struggle it was to this kind of more brown this is from the center it's from a city called competence the company is the LGBT captive subtotal so it's not heteronormative society which is really interesting for me to live in with this piece we went to an existing sorry and in the face of the Korean you can see the %HESITATION it's kind of like a swamp it's more of a swamp that is who I brought some hope switchable above us and they were white the number of the rice paper I live in a city where did this work for a whole day until I could figure out what the action was it to like figure out what the deal was I'm so excited to read play to win because it is made of my father's birthday movie twins the way to video a shot I felt that make it a multi channel screen and it was better to try to bring up the details also because the color is so strong so I didn't want to edit it together as one piece because I just felt it didn't work it works better as a cash to quite difficult to select your own work when you've made a lot of work you've got to look at photographs so I just was photographing so the call center division this is the right age and it still has a very strong rescue it's really raining reddish brown so this is this is ridiculous into the water into the lord a lot of artists in this area they connect this red clay and the making of prince and compared to what we see you it is possible to mix I'm making a difference several so I'm not sure whether that is slated from what I did this is where the performance happens on the first of February the performance was fake twenty minutes long and decided to just leave a trace of the performance in the middle of the space so that's something that happens sometimes appears or disappears for me when I'm sixty four interview it's a month of your birth but if it does geographically dental services so for me it's a lot but it is some sort of representation of the world three flour rice two major foods products that we import export all over the world these pieces we I tried to focus on as hello we see a lot of work with my hair on my face recovering in a full coverage option is part of Greece's options charcoal the second is that right from what is already in progress please zero three thanks bye they still have a credit rating differences yes you can hear in the media those site also find balance between how to describe it to the your performances hospital completely different geographical place had a return for the and how do we give that second view what I would lose the essence of the integrity of the actual performance this piece here was about some of the homeowner these two pieces here are about body armor so again my obsession with like with this piece here it's called writing docs photograph on the wall thanks for this material and then I turn the lights on and expose it to the audience this was in a rain storm so my feet are actually meant to be seen as a worker and I gave the audience testifies for their feet so they're kind of standing around in front of me then again because I was on this journey of this quite long project I was able to look back to the garlic tried it again %HESITATION let's see how that will work so then I decided to make video because this is not so impressive to an audience of violence this is Laurie cassman so also you're thinking of contacts so this piece here is to cover up miss Peters to audience but because I had time and I had studio time I was able to go back to the studio I was innocent lives today without allies what I'd done I think what I like about I enjoyed do not it works better than the plot line so I had the opportunity to take the right because usually you have like five minutes ago the particles are heading up the tension that's it so this project I was able to kind of open up all of those aspects that usually people don't see again slowly sinking into the ground some thought and I see it until you get foster on stop worrying so much yeah this is five PM so the time and like this is five PM this is eight PM please use our night Saturday and verify %HESITATION so for me the lady told me already Asia Indonesian palm or is it for me if I say %HESITATION when you wake up and watch the light from little different sounds that you hear in a city where the landscape I decided to screen the stream videos here the first one is S. complex because it's about foods so I was thinking about it so this is the S. purpose built stage in the middle of a small bit into these vehicles %HESITATION but I work for five minutes it is very important is the pharmacist I possibly had a hole in my hair that somebody was pulling meal there was a lot of restrictions around the body new to the local today both sides he said there is a lot of restrictions email but so I had to work with the a different performance yeah in this case here so I this is about a another rooftop so I gave them all so it was very difficult for them because of the but I have to rely on the latest like forms things at all or is it so this piece was a all of the contemporary art gallery symptoms so it is it is the center of the video they had a exactly so some of this this evening and I just wanted to begin hi this is fire one of the side with the stock some people were very much on top of me some people are a little bit right so we were playing with the light because I didn't want to work in the gallery space is too small %HESITATION I didn't want to work in the garden because it was T. social life and the roof space I like I like the idea of reliance I know that my work is challenging for audiences but at the same time I have to find ways to engage with the audience of the phone calls to go this by using the torch is it was a way of also kind of almost give somebody something to hang on given the responsibility given them daca authorship over the lights so the request I think hello I was really happy because I was a bit worried like well of nobody comes up the stairs to the roof of his visit here in the dark zero to worry it and you're likely to start to see people come with torches I've started to come down but also dark this is very quiet she did come to see in the chart or is there someone you can leverage on the couch when you're doing performances %HESITATION this piece that works with a press photographer I've basically worked to the women's network in every country or else set it off every aspect of the work is made with women I was actually thinking about that today %HESITATION this female photographer female photographer and I do have yeah so it does it does a lot of meetings because when you ask somebody to take photographs and photograph here working and they think about rising photograph my work that way you don't make that meeting the candidate of set off so many many many many discussions with photographers disclaimers caliphate it also say well you know if you want to do something you can have my body I don't mind you know trading also when you don't speak the language and you're trying to negotiate in Spanish and Portuguese and Japanese yen because really confusing so you just have a baby simple sentences can you take this photo at this time what kind of coverage you have and you have to do really quickly because it had like two to four weeks in each place it was a very long way I made a lot of connections and a lot of new friendships with other artists working taking three to two usually this is just this is the this is C. ng or maybe Japanese his research in Stephanie's yeah the image they seem to be so it is %HESITATION it is aged male body I'm not interested in that we H. and this journalist the cemex accelerate the teacher Japanese guys where all the Japanese women in English this is an existing the risers and we're just basically were in the house okay and eating and sharing chatting and talking about pressure cooker and how many times it has to be had to be fixed over the last fifty years this lady you know she she's been married for fifty five years your cooker for fifty five years so it's you know really nice conversations and set up the same characters %HESITATION the kind of local people would be revealed to be duty get mom to my ex Valerie June eight year in their kitchen table you know right Thursday this is %HESITATION our managers use at least three hours on the tall the buyers have their life is it really in our time %HESITATION decided to edit the videos of the neighbor that because there is a lot of issues around privacy disclosure cable because you can't plan most of the conversation %HESITATION so rather than sensory files that the guys are happens I have we laughed more then we felt sides and this is when usually I have to be in the Senate have drinks and food and shopping it's not Japanese style at all he so %HESITATION women really enjoy themselves they just got a little bit self conscious close enough because this is my way of working without turning it into a positive attitude just when they have exhibited pieces of pop what is you know it is a curious Hey okay this do and like this in the system I know in this case but now I have something I'm good at and I think also there are different ways of communicating to fit so if you have an activity which is already there you know so or share in our lives and I mean most of the time and %HESITATION their last anyway but I just like I can ET so I was just kidding and then we're all getting giddy you know you can get T. they're already getting in the build up to this meeting at six o'clock and mags hello %HESITATION this is the presidency has for the uncle residency in there everyone and everyone's so curious like what you do just have a women's meeting she did interested in that even the very simple things are controversial in a way and also Tokyo is so big so he would have to see some more so it's hard to put things together and it's hard to get people repeated to me huge we will I mean I didn't know where to host was because you get to the streets it will be any numbers so you don't know where it is but even Japanese double I work in the night this is a long time to get a taste of this is like twenty minutes and we had this sorted and we had the baby you know this was trying to translate what I would like to see it would be difficult comma but it actually turned out that these ladies all the food for my own so all the food groups the nice yeah it was one of the things when I was there for six hours because this is nothing lost in translation or I'm thinking why am I here so long and where and then it's like I okay I get it so there's little bits that are missing and you're you're trying to come out of the way it would be really okay here I guess we will why the raiders this question is so if they said they haven't sent me to this day last year this year's I sign up bonus caller shop well I had I had a friend trying to sleep China or you for me what is your address I used to read injured seven most of law I think six right and then you can buy the separatist thank god on their website they said that it's okay wanted to wear glasses four weeks disguises and I was really shocked because I semi to us that this is quite an office tracks to be seen in a women's March can be dangerous targeted so that was a very big thing it's a digest I'm trying to do to make see that lawyer discover the suppression so I went back to Japan this was in March %HESITATION talk to journalists and ten I know that she conditionally which is an area that was destroyed because I when I went to Iraq and I have a case to go five miles from the actually I just spoke tracks she has sex workers in yeah %HESITATION that desperation to somebody about it has been ages you know you look at your shop window and everything is still there additional people because it's too dangerous for them to go back to their homes so I set a public bench animated piece called the flower and it's just six minutes longer maybe like to view they should related to this time and he doesn't L. as in Lima you know Hey %HESITATION okay and this is in they it's just that ten years discourages right I just showed yeah as ation use it to see some of the things right %HESITATION really easy to concentrate yeah a new age just %HESITATION teachers huge thanks to she need for allowing me to increase her and lightning talk on the podcast you can find more information on shin its website which is Sinead o'donnell dot com thanks also to each one of H. and Sinead breath at Cashel for the most accent road trip between Belfast imported Titan you've been listening to audio visual cultures would be polar bear and Sinead o'donnell if you find a podcast useful and just saying and enjoyable please support its continuation and improvement but the small monthly membership on peach tree on telecom forward slash AP cultures or at least one off donations to pay pal dot me forward slash B. A. player the part of the conversation with eighty cultures on Twitter and Facebook find more information on previous episodes on audio visual cultures DOT wordpress dot com please like share and subscribe on your chosen this thing platform to help others find the podcast all the best for night catch the next time
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