Audiovisual Cultures episode 115 – Performance Art with Richard James Hall automated transcript

Show notes
This conversation with artist Richard James Hall was recorded and broadcast for the Slack's Radio residency as part of Blazing New Worlds at the NewBridge Project in January 2022. 
Discussion topics include: 
    • performance art, drawing, creativity, video, Instagram Live, curating  
    • disability, autism, bodies, being queer 
    • engagements with other artists such as Sally Madge and Victoria Gray 
    • the arts in Newcastle upon Tyne and North East England 
    • being a member of NewBridge 

Image from Dick’s ‘Crossing the Summer River’ performance in 2016, photo by Arto Polus.
If you enjoy this chat, please give it a good rating and share it with a friend! 
Auto-captioned videos on YouTube.
Recorded using Zencastr on 19 January 2022 and Audacity on 8 February 2022. 
Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity. 
Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license. 
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hello and welcome to the audio facial cultures the podcast part eight year host Paul let Blair investigate different areas of film media at the arts and cultural production in this episode I am delighted to share with you a recording I am me it's with Newcastle based artist Richard jams hold for the Sox radio residency at the new bridge project a budget which you can find more information by following the links in the show notes wherever you're listening to this deck is a very dear friend of mine and a big supporter of this show and I've been wanting to do a recording with them for awhile so this was a really lovely way to go up by that and I'm really grateful to you you bridge and socks for the opportunity if you'll recall take featured on our special remembering Sally match episode last autumn and it's great night to talk said tech personally up by their own practice which is largely through process and performance arts and if you've been missing for a while you know that to bake and tracks if mine is live performance art so before I pass over to our past selves %HESITATION past pastels huge thanks to all our listeners and said are very generous benefactors over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures all of you thought make doing this and my very busy January with all of these recordings furry purse while if you love what I'm doing with the show and she can't manage to support the work financially I'd really appreciate it a positive review and rating for every access a podcast and a based on your socials which also be rainy rainy appreciated I'm so grateful when people say that it really means a lot but if you can manage even just a one off if you quit I'd be so grateful for that you can see that so radically on our lovely upgraded website funded by our patrons audio visual cultures dot com where you can also sign up to our mailing list to receive our free monthly newsletter Anthony episodes notifications streets to your inbox as well as access transcripts and generally get more information and thanks for everything to do with me on the show so %HESITATION finale before you run off and deal of science I want you to really enjoy this insightful talks with Dick James hall I know I really enjoyed all my talks Richard GM's hall thank you so much for joining me thank you so much for inviting me Pola it's great to catch up so my first question would you be happy T. describe your practice for everyone in the short term I would say I am a performance artist based in Newcastle upon Tyne the longer way about two days I'm a performance artist who also does I think kinds of whack on the side and has come from a tradition of improvised sectional performance but also realizing and having to think about now the factor of how much being on the autistic spectrum being clear being fast teams and affects myself and the world around me it's a very strange questioning them having to go for you and I'm constantly questioning myself which makes it very hard to think about projects and to be honest practice supplies some just like taking it day by day week by week yet I yes it's a really long time gentle point about that's about how I would describe my practice so follow me thanks I've had the privilege of being able to see your live performance and the before times when it is safe to gather but I also really enjoy aids over the lock time periods here experimental weapons say performances on Instagram life and I think those are where you really explored a lot of those kinds of same set you just flagged off their bite identity and taking up space and moving through space yes and playing with all Jackson just the life work but doing it to where it's calmer and I really enjoyed that a lot as well as those what else specifically would you say you've been working on recently and I think we can be very elastic about what we mean by Yuri sends a header what else would you say if the marking on because I know you do a lot of drawing as well I was doing a lot of touring and I kinda Hey this sort of roadblock because recently about a few months ago I was invited to do my fast performance the audience and %HESITATION via free is actually for no trace without resistance which was a memorial offend for the late great Sally mad shit and for that I was in a lab coat which I had to order in because I thought about wearing Sally's lab coat she was very very much smaller move me so %HESITATION Denton alab coach and that's not code seen some action button days before that offense including doing a trip from shields field on the bus where all the people that go in like keep away from me from the testing site %HESITATION I'm in the middle of town going through old charity shops because I was looking for China plates and China tea cups and all that %HESITATION center Johnston also a fantastic performance artist and I'm just like going through each charity shop going like no no and I'm ending up with this bunch of plates and all this trainer and I'm like going is this right it's cold cold trimming my S. but on foot up on the day itself I had a lint roller I had a few lane troll is some fine French chalk and I'm just proud of the day I was just rolling this Lynch rolled over the fan use cinema scenes because the venue itself is the star channel cinema and I'm just rolling away trying to cover up best hand the little bits of fabric you know about that slapped behind from use and it was interesting actually saying how much of the past is picked up by this this Dastis Moscow time which was very much a tradition that Sally match basically use within have practice which was to pick up on the mundane things and just celebrated so I did that for about five hours in terms of other things apart from being filled with some sort of mysterious bacterial and viral infection I saw a really interesting piece of performance work by another artist called Victoria gray no actually wrote it's very rare that I write in response to artworks but this one just struck me because she actually was addressing being on the autistic spectrum and actually being recently diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum which was really interesting to me and as I'm writing is an essential stuff and I re read it I'm going %HESITATION I'm picking up on stuff that I have experienced that's a few people who I have known have also experienced so in a way my practice is fairly elastic and recently I've also been waking up on the soldiers soft practice launch of a survey of seven matches where at parks docked was trying to install some heroic in waves stat isn't academically structures all institutionally structured but actually played about with SS you are the artists so I've been piling up cuddly toys into the corner of the room I've been trying to stand up cushions which demand select B. fold down benches constantly having this on off discussion about how certain things come alive with the artist's touch robin and perhaps the curatorial touch in Newton so I've been having a bit of discussion with a couple of other people about that about terminal the curators meant to care about classic and yet it's us the artists who actually seem to be showing the most cash and the most dynamic form of cash which is to actually bring to life those wax which was so enormous and also think about how it is the pro sets itself that brings those works to live it's not just like an institutional taxonomy saying process but that's a very this is also lead you can tell I've been doing an MA and hung around PhD student quite a long time because I have that critical for process that's really useful insight actually %HESITATION I really appreciate those ideas I think that's a lovely way of putting it as well as the idea of taking care of the arts not just putting it somewhere in San Mart like slicing no backseat carrying forests and the kitchen she's talking about it especially because they're fragments of fabric that Sally painstakingly closets together and they've been washed up on the shore so who knows where they came from and that speaks of clothes and things you know so they're very human I think her intention was to give some some sort of dynamism and slice and sterile different shapes and sizes just like humans are and there are no billion there by Katie and %HESITATION to silence some bets and just like humans are and they're coming apart sure there you there so soon together they're awful tough it's really wonderful to hear that you've been able to play with those and have thought life experience because I think that's where the passive performance already come site as when you play with things and you have the opportunity to play and sometimes that the material the G. and you facilitate rather than forcing it into something I think that's the key part of any sort to improvise ation %HESITATION performance practice it's all fine and well having the infection diet DHEA but sometimes you have to let yourself be led by the materials besides the people around you yes very much in a dynamic state it's very hard to actually stay static I had my is some artists who actually had to generational static way back but it's just so slow that the melts happens I've tried that once for an hour I couldn't do it I haven't got the practice or the patience for it I'm very much like a ten gentil practitioner eight eight something catches my interest %HESITATION I'm kind of old to okay that sounds really childish in a way that it's just my way of going about it I like the dynamism I like to be invigorated somehow but of course there's also moments where you have to take stock and you have to stand back and actually trying to go like this is no time to Lolo it's do you find that these are quite and cheered us processes C. just really listen to yourself and see what you need today or how much do you allow yourself to you to what extent the G. plan something before you go into S. or GHS have an idea and you see what happens I would say I have an idea it's very read that I has the overall vision of something it's much mall on the emotional scale for me there's no hard structures to really work with apart from perhaps the site itself there are some things you just can never fall so change you can't change your environment entirely without great pains to do so okay your materials there's a level of care with materials but there's also a level of understanding that once you do something destructive you basically kind of took away some fence original intent and you have to live with that and you have to clean up after that I flinch from experience that you have to take responsibility as a performance artist that in a way that you are having show cat to the site to the materials or understand that there is consequences once you destroy the materials people around you because people are unpredictable and there may be times where you may have to shift out a little bit from performance from one performance state to another state to react to another person who may be in the audience at the end of today yeah I also have to care for yourself because it's some nice and well when you have other people supporting you but sometimes when you're actually by yourself as I have been throughout some of the experimental Wednesdays and fraud some of the experiments of had done in public ground wax before you are basically having to take care of yourself and I understand what you need to do to recuperate all what you need to watch out full so there's a responsibility to the play as well and I feel like that's something I'm growing into because when you're young you're sort of slap dash thank god I actually was in a workshop ones and this kids basically interest was going off on one ninety actually was just like destroying everything around him and asked the end defense because we let them go through this let him do what he did and at the end of it I just basically said to him in a way that was so exciting I have been in that place I have been in that destructive area but you have to be away and now that your destruction has caused the fact around you so in a way I was kinda kicking is I'll spend an assaultive caring way and I was trying to show a level of cab actually kind of going like I'm kicking your house right now but only because I want you to let but it because some people don't do that turned and maybe one of the few people to actually step up to the plate to go and make active in the market for yeah so thank you Spain a member of mu Prich for awhile but she sent me that there might be anything you've learned from being part of the French or any experiences you've had particulars Newbridge or is there anything you can reflect on a plate to share experience of being a member I would say as of any studio situation it varies from studio to studio I've been in some tight knit studios where I'm sharing one room with may be for artists or maybe sharing this massive garage with eight to eleven artists with no boundary points and it's interesting to me how new bridge festival in Laos the boundary space so that Joe's studio is your studio and that's something that's in some ways I've really crave tunes because I'm quite a messy studio hold I'm not eighteen Messi I had one studio member years ago and it was that this was the last straw for me we had a shed fridge need basically the last wild mushrooms in the fridge for about a week and when I open the fridge it's like no no well I actually had to get everything out to die frage check out the mushrooms and tried to clean up drive entire fridge and it still smells of mushroom sold the bleaching of acted I concluded it just was like nope bad smells not going what I'm finding less new bridge is for the fact that even for you may have separate studios there's still a community which I really appreciate I'm talking to artists who have just graduated from university and I'm like trying to get them like the little things look like yet try to keep you practice separately studios so you can at least keep up the momentum because we're meant to people who do with Todd courses and then they don't continue to practice you kind of lose the momentum any other use the want to box if you don't keep the practice up but it's interesting as well having talked in whack with members of staff at new bridge as well there is a level okay and there is a level of wanting things to change both within the studio settings but also in the wider spectrum of the community over the last few years especially since I've only came into new bridge September twenty nineteen and there's been times when members of that community has actually supported me when I have been at my lowest lows actually had her back to give me a call of a lockdown ones Rebecca Huggins I rector of new bridge and she basically just wanted to check in on me that's something that I don't think a lot of institutions usually do and I think that shows the amount of cash that's Newbridge shows towards since member is but of course sometimes members also push the lack a little bit and new bridge won't be afraid to choose basically co sought to shed her %HESITATION don't leave your stuff ready for us in this to start fires well I feel like it's also like it's a mix of training ground for recent graduates but also it allows space for older artists to work in a studio setting amongst the community especially with hollow space is a premium now especially in cityscapes and heads of studios outside of the city but it's usually people who have a little bit more money well a little bit more know how about how the infrastructure work ethics and I'm not quite at that place now financially or know how to actually kind of have a space outside yes but I really appreciate new brands on that level it's just a nice space it's somewhere where I would recommend any recent graduates to apply for especially if the local based I was wondering if you have any thoughts about aids the arts in new castle quite generally and across the northeast region that you'd be happy to share I mean you mentioned for example you branch being in shale fields and that's quite a recent maze and premises in the city centre but do you have any thoughts about it but the art scene so I can see what it's like in the city and in the region I would say Newcastle as to not seem itself is a fairly tightly nets group so there are times where there are people who I see two artists who I recognize but I don't quite know of but there's always that sort of thing off when you're walking down the street and you see somebody in your chest notes from the scene and you just give them the slight tilt open knowledge just to kind of go like I see it and because I'm not entirely beneficial me because sometimes if I don't get to tell took the note back when I gave the tilt of the knowledge back and it's like just like for the audio that was two flips of the birds that I think it's well in terms of new castle it is a little bit of a struggle at times because the northeast as a region has always kind of struggled with the odds because we've always been seen as like the leftover region in England itself if anything there are some people in other regions of England who actually consent to Newcastle in northeast actually be heart of Scotland yes so this these questions of like winter we'd be better off if we were in adopted by the Scottish oh do we have to really fight hard to win full funding but it's also back case of new castle has some of the free weights actually experimental work in because economically rent here is not too bad it's actually fairly cheap compared to some of the regions where it's small popular to live and it is it has produced some really great artists of the is what I'm finding as well as some of the great artists that I know of unknown only locally in this the likes of Carol Luby and Sally match for example who they're artists who are locally known and that my it locally but outside of the region it's very much like a nobody quite knows and I find that quite shocking I actually went down to the life of development agency in London I tried to type performance artists from Newcastle upon Tyne there was very little info we have a very rich history of performance and experimental %HESITATION it's shocking but it's also not shocking at the same time and you have to take it as it is you kind of have to take the fact to roles you can have a practice here but you may have to explore outside of the region itself just to get back in touch I will say people from Newcastle have a very good sort of hockey communities well we love to celebrate our own when one of our own actually succeeds in something well like yes yes and when maybe against attrition or something let sit self down what kind of like going gods why and they coasted with any sort of tight knit community there's also like a bit of gossip and chatting behind people's backs and it's even done lovingly or it's done with a bit of exceeding it even today anything like contact him sure well I'd like to spend a little bit team now and again okay so the laugh I'm not afraid to basically say to some people I have said to some fairly successful mid career artists bullshit I'm not afraid because I'm now at the point I'm very five I know I'm not going to be like famous all have the money I'm just being honest to myself to the community around me and also just kind of go in like time is precious if you're not going to be honest it sometimes leads to bad situations where is the honesty itself can actually be quite transporters and can help take away some of the egotism the one thing I will say is we can probably do a little bit more criticality but in the sense of kind of going like what being critical but in a supportive manner and I have said some things which I probably put me in the back big swells fewer people %HESITATION I've had a few conversations with curators just kind of going like really but it's just life I love it here it's the one place I feel the most me acts as I tried doing it down in London and London does my head in London's a place I know I have to visit at least may be recall kind that make I knew I had to visit the least once a year because it's just the way of the Welton but if I could help it I wouldn't go down Sutherland as much but %HESITATION I trying to also bring news of new castle to go outside of the region and just kind of go like come yes hello my pipe and done that's medic to pay you just have to scratch the surface a little bit and not be afraid of because sometimes we'll hang about in some of the dingy pilot sometime as well and just be like it's not this bad doesn't let X. I had one taxi driver tried to pick me up once a bank at me just was like well it's Raphael lake and I was like have you been in battle your chest list anywhere like that like I just went it's not that rusty and free and come through Russia places before and I'm just like this is a very thank you so much for this where can people find out more about you and your work query to point them towards online you can look me up on Instagram at St James hold because people also call me desk I call myself sometimes mistake mistake made today one day I hope to be doctor did they also and website I has W. W. dots judge James whole duct weekly dot com you might just want to type in Richard James hall artist of it and just give it a go that's what you know you're on the right page when you see somebody who's just like quite fast with long head and the first images like trust me I'm a slow going like the electorate for folks thank you so much thank you son upset pleasure I always love our tasks and it's not brilliant to have this proper a more formal chat with each day and I really appreciate it and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day thank you so much I hope to get disposable tea with you say please it Hey right I just wanted to see extend my thanks to check again for thanks and I hope that they'll return so that we can go into a lot more detail on a lot of those issues three is there because I think there are things that we started to touch on that merit a lot more dapps but I was recording this for quite a tight time slots so it was a fairly concise conversation so I thought I'd just take the opportunity nine AM I'm recording this in February doing a bit of time traveling because that talk was probably set the thirty year it was originally recorded in January around mid January %HESITATION as early as February and yeah it's really nice opportunity actually there are some Bach over these and reflect on them a little bit and take out some ideas on how you to maybe develop some more of these themes and issues that are coming up across these episodes the next one is going to be the third of the recordings that I did for the S. with Bethany stats so that's a really lovely conversation as well so please stay keep subscribe and then check out our latest file yes so I just thought I'd take a minute because that has been a fairly short bonds is just perfect about more and some of the observations I think there's a lot of crossover here with the professional and the personal three some of the things that tech was referring to there I'd really like take knowledge that we seem a bit snappy up by arch curators and more formal and institutionalized approaches to presenting wrecking galleries and exhibitions I mean I try to be really open minded but you know sometimes is laptop and I stepped up in this one of bets and probably come across is but negative and part G. T. not to create practices we encounters are Ryan the commemorative events for Sally match that we mentioned and those events took place in November of twenty twenty one and I just wanna be radiate beauty care every single person who works in all of those events in the exhibition and everything we all contributed to our time for for a the curators particularly that so out quite great personal cost to themselves and it was hugely stressful under very challenging circumstances I'm very limiting circumstances as well but on the other side of that they also didn't listen to the wishes of those of us who actually worked directly with Sally's pieces and I felt that they made some presentation decisions that they thought looked nice looked as good as they kids and the space that they were given but I think there were others of us he felt that these particular presentations of specific things were missteps I am being deliberately vague here I'm not naming things directly I'm not going to name many people I just felt that you know there were quite a few of us who have a lot more knowledge and understanding of the contacts the rind a lot of the work and physically works with them as well I did a lot of finishing of Sally's unfinished pieces not just me other people that that sort of work as well so there is a lot of very invisible labor that went behind getting the pieces ready for exhibition and also for Sally's physical archives and I just felt that the missteps and hi some of these representatives and the gallery it probably should at a potentially negative lights if your roof year he came in cold and you really engaged actively with the pace and sought its rate I don't think you have come to a very positive conclusion so again I'm being really vague but if you witness center if you seen images of it you might be able to work out what I'm talking about yes but I'm not gonna talk about it directly and there is a little bit of my thinking on this because I I do I wrote a blog post thinking three and she's around part labor and not something I've talked I talked at length with Sally about eats there's also a particular thing that happens with something I mean it's that I posted on my end my personal Instagram page so if you want to go to a gang you're welcome to go and hunt for those but I'm not going to thanks to them directly as I say I don't want to name any names and I don't actually think it's first ready to piling on too much and this is probably I hope the last probably talk about it thanks bye everybody who was involved contributed to with the opposite passive intentions and this isn't hello I think it's worse dying on edge is what I will say I think it's more it sparks rather than the personal it sparked more of an intellectual curiosity about art the upper and the worst of work and those are two things again all things I talk to bite off miss Holly and I keep bringing up on this podcast nobody seems to be getting the message not enough people are listening to %HESITATION maybe maybe everybody less since this gets the message and I need more of these people to listen and get the message so what I would like to say is that I would like to see more respect and consideration for art laborers are two workers and recognition that an artist might have their name on something but they don't necessarily make the work on and Sally's case that was different because she died she was making the work herself and then she died and so a bunch of us finished at or did something less the things that were and transaction but it's something I was thinking out about it a lot anyway with Sam you know sort of more bigger Anne am CMS artists he got loads of money thrown at them or make use of money in the right Sally wasn't one of those people but even still even just out workers doing that Leah Byrne but you I give a lot of my summer last year to doing the work of putting these pieces together and finishing things and I don't care about recognition but what happened in my case was that something of mine was actually destroyed so it's not to stop it you know I don't care about being raised in carpet being visible but something I actually made it and dead with my bare hands was destroyed in the process of this is the way it brandy spun me on a train of thought of thinking about partly uppers and our keepers here at once the CM mass and distinct from artists so this is an issue that was presented front and center and so much of Sally's work to the point that she did performances for what she need pen badges that sads flux worker on them and that was specific to you when she was responding three performance to the flux this retrospective oil tank and two thousand nine and this was a performance that perished but tech was talking about right there an artist's caring for other artists work to really extremes quite funny extremes but also she was provocative of thought and I'll link to some of that work in the show notes and so %HESITATION and turn that's what a few of the state for Sally spark in the year following her death we cared for her work I felt for a person a Costa Sally when I was working with her pieces you know I would have her some of her cations sitting on me while I closed them up and stop is very meaningful because it felt like a kid how good this thing that was part of her and it was very personal but that's not the peace and I'm really talking about aids I think the thing that was really hurtful for me on a personal level was set at an embroidered dedication of very small embroidered dedication I had put on one of the really large pieces I had made artistic bets Sally never called tape was baptized with light me being notified without being asked I turned up to the opening night and I saw that it was gone and I thought I was going mad and on the I had taken a photograph of it at home before I gave it away I knew I wasn't going completely mass on it I had actually so nice then on it was just wrapped ice I was completely gone it wasn't even discovered over it was just gone and so I think there's quite a few here sis because obviously it was personally a bet on the front but then it also files a lot more generally like in the front seat the visibility of the art worker and merging from the artist's shadow and this was something solely did quite a lot and her art she laid bare the process of the worker Ryan to making art if you listen back to my episode with her one of her performances cold making a mass and cleaning it up her whole performance is a bite you know she doesn't aren't working as pages and then most of the performance is actually her cleaning up the mess that she's made for the performance so there's a collapse of the artwork in the art labor and then what is performance and what is just cleaning up the collapse into each other and a very very tiny way this was something I was referencing was just to making the work Abed visible and mine of AC isn't terribly powerful and I wouldn't call him anything like that but it's just in my own little way doing something that I think Sally may have approved often that I discussed with her quite a bit not any other layers thought is that embroidery and needlework are considered as Croft's rather than art again this is something that has come up in the podcast before if you go back to one of our earlier episodes while Coulthard crafts this is something that me and my gas and not absolute talk about it at length as well as what's processes what methods are even considered to be arch so my hand stitched embroidered writing wasn't considered art by these curators and I mean I don't know they're thinking about it because I haven't spoken to me and that's that's part of the problem is that they've never communicated with me I spoke to them on the opening night before I had to realize what had happened and it just even speaking to them for a few minutes it was really clear that the result law they didn't know up by the pieces that I and another person had finished and the pieces that I it by myself had me it's the richest so much detail they didn't have and they have my email address I am easy to reach him easy to find I picked myself all over the internet I'm not hiding anywhere folks again there's a lot going on there so I don't want to just when you bite it too much but yeah so it got me thinking about eight not just for me in a personal level but for just those larger questions I think about it he gets to be an artist walk gets to be an artwork what gets to be an art pro sass you know I think we're still not answering those questions adequately with Sally staff there is no I. another lock and he is asking those questions through the work itself three the process itself and so I suppose I just really wanted to hot spot on because the remains no consensus on high any of these things can really be property defines and he gets said to find not and I suppose a presented us with the fact that there is still very stringent can't keep bang of the bi injuries Orion's creative practice creative practices and so I thought I would just sit through those extra observation site there and just ask you to think about I thought for a bit so thanks if you've listened to my little extra rumbled huge thanks again C. deck I hope that that's gonna stop by to my system thank you for this

Audiovisual Cultures episode 102 – Landing with Mariae Smiarowska automated transcript

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hello I am polo player and this is audio visual cultures this episode features a conversation with Maria it's Meryl scare that was broadcast live and you cheap on the thirtieth of July twenty twenty one I had of Maria's preparations for her online at in defense performances and titles landing the link is in the show notes if you'd like to view that recording as I explained in knots Maria it caught me just as I was about to take most of August off so we went life as a witness mandate she added and release this before the performances that took place from the twenty second to the thirtieth of August fi is same I attended one of those events and it's something that we talk about in the discussion as Maria was planning it all right at the time but it was very different being at a life's fringe events online mind it was interactive I often find it quite difficult to focus us nothing C. with Maria that's entirely to do with me because I was very aware of the same logic that you cast and being a mites amassed six slash workspace my mind was just racing with things I needed today and I struggle to see man's hand the present nice that Maria worked really hard to stop ash and her opening meditation I've seen Maria perform life before and I've been to many friends performances before so I tried my best to imagine those things combines and what was different though was that Maria it consciously incorporated the webcam I thought a very clever way often using her proximity to yet she changed a shot type she often went deep into her performance space at some points and she created an extreme close up one point on her eyes her production assistant that was present with her also %HESITATION please tell thing and pounding according to the various movements as well so the risk could use if the camera going on and that bonding performances landing involved spoken word song dance instrumental tracks pre recorded videos and some audience participation and combined auctions and answering questions and the charts Maria encouraged the audience to you consider what home means to us and whether or not we feel landed it so we went quite deep on some things and I think there was a degree of shared vulnerability and this virtual space Maria really lay herself bare in particular and talking three family trauma and her conflicted feelings Orion's please Simplicissimus displacement can come in the form of necessitate or for well on the surface seems like it's for the best but it is never easy media also %HESITATION Rimini adage on getting stuck in a solitary place as we entered into lock signs last year and she reminded us that it's not just humans who become displaced speaking to %HESITATION Redbridge cone that she find in Britain and I encountered quite a few red weights at National Trust places during may break and had been thinking about this is wild artifacts on the world's flora and fauna has created displacements in the natural world stage and sometimes for those of us with transitory lights this can mean that sometimes home it reaches us for good or for bad so there was a lot to think about it there with all of that in mind I am really pleased to introduce this informative discussion with performer Maria it's Meryl scam when the recording was over I find that the sign quality was pretty awful ands and balanced between S. and I wasn't aware that that was happening by recording my tests all signed it fine I think if maritime history I think my computer hardware is struggling the hardware in this computer has been breaking apart for some time as credit Franken sending machine at this point and I'm not no I would ask you to please consider supporting my work at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures or via the other links in the show notes for for your listening to this reviewing this because I Brady do you need to save up for some new equipment and that will help keep improving the quality of audio visual cultures and just keep me workin and just teach thanks to you special people like there he already do you support this show in various ways for night please enjoy this episode online saying with my very special guest Maria well hello we are very welcome to this life recording of audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and media we're doing this life today because my cast has some really exciting show coming up in Edinburgh on the twenty second of August I believe and I'm about to take a bit of time off so we thought we'd just not just a window of time where we kids and do this video this morning so that and I'll be right there it will be available for people to watch ahead it's not true and then the audio edit can come by and a couple of months time so thank you so much if you're joining us on U. shape please do share this widely so as many people as possible can hear but it's fabulous yes Morales scare and her amazing show so some of the long hold listeners may remember Maria and her reading interesting interactive performance from the late show's episode back in twenty nineteen and I'm really thrilled to welcome merry at T. R. twenty eight twenty one remote for amounts to spring and then Maria to the stream nice very good morning Maria hi are you dating all right good morning Paula I'm well thank you how are you okay so I'm not too bad it's just still here here is it okay to ask where but she aren't the kids here I'd sites and an ex very interesting up there Walsall Knoxville nine island called St Martin's which is on the Isles of Scilly off the coast of Cornwall and I came here a couple months ago just a summer job and duration has it but I don't have indoor wifi based company %HESITATION outside my work here it is okay yes probably awesome well fresh air that skate office gauge symmetry at any a little bit faster time so would you be happy to just give us a bit of an overview of some of you reckon and we'll talk about your show sure I'm an international performer and Polish American and that all actually new castle M. thirty minutes ago hi merrily I've done theatre work rather than %HESITATION no more anything and I guess you could describe the work of Dennis is a co our mental work I work in a company called patches on their base I'm up in North America so that's also a very kind of visual goalie a look I love theater and I train with a company called undercoat it turned cold and is also very physical %HESITATION some bold divide your work yeah so I guess that's kind of my training where I come from and the physical collection device sort of process work yeah you're planning your show so it's on the twenty second of August is that right but this one %HESITATION great yes I've got one on the twenty second and the twenty third and then a code on the twenty seventh the twenty ninth and thirtieth and they're all live stream there's a plea at seven thirty PM that's brilliant that's created is there anything you can tell us apart it will my people extracts from Nazi thank you so with the one woman show it's something I've written and devised it's called landing and the thing of it is finding one's place on earth which I think is that a kind of a universal yet timely payments zero something of impregnating inside for many years now how to describe it it's a combination of poetry movement song we'll get a visual art and they'll be interactive elements as well that's how I want to try and create kind of an intimate interactive experience as much as possible budget yes %HESITATION beat via zoom and there will be the invitations to participate it's also the element of ritual which is something I've been incorporating into my work yeah I want to thank for now okay that's a really nice teaser here Facebook pages links and show notes people had over to Facebook follow Maria just while we're on that you want to point anybody towards your socials or website yeah I don't have a website as of yet but I do have an Instagram account which is my full name so it's merry S. mascot just all together and then I'm on Twitter but they don't really use it you can find by me on there Maria you are all one it's not W. S. one I think at the end date and there will actually be a Facebook page for the show it out which I mean to my page transaction so it is good to just fly close up just so that people know where to go so we can settle in a bit and take few minutes stand to talk about your work more generally and to say you walk tall people may come to expect from this experience and life experience some of your recognized before haven't on the digital sphere yes Sam certainly the life experience as I describe it I mean definitely interactive fun thought provoking and just what you were mentioning already here thinking about it life life on this planet since can you to question some things and think something sorry what about you yeah S. or anything you're more you'd like to slash I debate what you've done before well I think what I've done before sure it has but up to now but I feel like especially this show is my first original work really Holly energy a one woman show when I was very young as well which was an adaptation of the novel this is my first completely original work okay well I don't think you said our elements I do ask questions I'm not speaking to give answers that masking universal questions I suppose to get people to think about in this show specifically you know who are you what is your identity regardless of your culture or nationality and so on but also what does it mean to have a place on this earth and how do you find that is it something that you take for granted or is that a life long quest how does it look so it's something that I hope will appeal to many people I've actually done a few sharing of the work in progress over the last few months and gotten feedback very interesting but the people who've traveled and lived abroad and have the experience of being our incumbent quote but also people who just come from one place one small town for example on the Mike I'm this and for them it was also %HESITATION but interesting to broaden their horizons to go %HESITATION that applies to me too and it's interesting to see this other perspective so yes I like asking big questions it would be like to keep it entertaining as well obviously another thing that's kind of always drawn me to theaters the arctic aspect which originally was a part of a pattern so I guess that's why I'm incorporating elements of virtual now and going how can we maybe together collectively create a ritual that can be cleansing artworks evening in some way ask any of the questions that they bring up obviously from our past when I land %HESITATION there's a chance that maybe collectively do send your application if you well but also balance with lighter moments not all dark heavy you know so that's kind of what I'm looking at and I think the show is the beginning of of more research and work for the future but it's taking that question and looking at it now and then we'll see we'll see what other work comes future your question Paul I don't know waffling is automotive fights let me walk over as you're describing those things I am being transported back a couple of years to the late shows and share performance Sarah and how he rebuilt to get people drawn in so that performance I'm really interested in that element of contingency or for other people we're bringing when each other many because you can only plan so much with that sort of thing that's interactive and getting other people to perform something even if you're giving them the words because I remember having to read something I didn't get to sort of take an audience member and make them part of it make them performance I find that really interesting about your stuff meanwhile I'm going to try and recreate some about it my uncle digitally obviously it's not the same as live where you can have an immediate response if you will and you can contract obviously there's a bit of it's just a little bit different but I recently did a little work in progress during the month that goes by where for the first time I had a moment of improvisation while I was performing live with the audience who I could see you know that moment and that I was just so joyful and the feedback I got was like yeah we felt we were part of that as well and I like that I like creating that space and internet community for the duration of back and we're all a part of creating it together it's not just hello I'm a performer you know I I like to share I think something that's special and precious about live performance be it digital or live yeah I'll manage yeah I'm sure it would be great I imagine that because so many people in the arts has been a tough year and a half we've talked about this a little bit but have you find any other way he says adopting any plans that you had or are you for sure to be confronted with I'm not having a choice but to make online and that sort of thing highs topping three top anything open for anyone I was actually in isolation of Scotland %HESITATION about six months in the house by myself luckily I had good news tonight and so I was able to do a little bit of performing online a little bit of teaching you know running workshops and thank that only other hand in a way I found it in some ways liberating because I'm going to have bro while I'm on an island in the Atlantic and that's why %HESITATION that and and the hard to get my head around it but also very exciting I've got somebody producing will be in Africa during the time of the production and it's and my directors in Ireland it's just kind of also beautiful that I'm someone who's very international and I've traveled a lot and I've spoken to friends all over the world for me it's always been about you know other time zones and languages etcetera so it feels like the world is kind of stepped up to accepting that is more common than normal in every day and that excites me because it's just really creating that feeling of connectivity globally and %HESITATION I personally love that so in a way it is been liberating the strike while B. R. of your chili but streaming islands you they can go worldwide and research that I think is a worldwide competition and %HESITATION we're having an yes it's exciting it's exciting to have that but I performed live for the first time the other week here on the island we had a little open Mike at the cafe and actually there's a lot of performers on the Simon strangely enough and is the first time I perform live the new year and a half last time was in Newcastle actually enough and it was just so exciting for everyone just like all you know we have been sharing this moment an audience it's been difficult yet challenging but if we can find a way to have a balance in the future it's kind of interesting it does open up a lot of possibilities I know there's a lot of companies have in the states and in other countries you know who been working digitally already for years they were kind of ahead of the game a little bit if you will yeah it's an interesting chance yet like I'm saying I think it's about the balance not I want it all to go online forever no you don't but how can we find a way to maybe you know make a hybrid form or medium it's interesting that my it's been a learning curve I totally get what you're saying I mean that this podcast is become radio international because of what's happened as well so you don't get the same energy necessarily and it's harder to read body language and you don't have to assume that you know your your contingency becomes Willie internet works today as my computer going to burn out so absolutely what I was asking that because I'll be streaming there's only one island hall with good internet your oh my god we're who I know who would just fix of putting on here is very upset they so I went up and I said you know if it's good enough the internet and the answer I got was what prince Charles had a meeting there so yes prince Charles about it I can do it you got real greens and gymnasts on your side Maria quite a few bad experience will happen again but I've been doing it it's all part of it really and I think we're all just so you stay over and away you stay any life or any collect saying in that it's part of it now yes thank you thanks yeah but I'm still crisscrossed courage you got fights and that's five three good chances that it's gonna go perfectly more than one you're right okay would you like to receive updates thanks and special offers straight to your inbox and visit audio visual cultures tower presto com to sign up to our mailing list I'm interested and some of the scenes at your phrases file because that you talked about your rest chill and so much shows just digress just hear what we're doing right now having a conversation online so I'm in new castle you're in the city island Sir we're so far apart yep first beside each other on the screen and the rituals of joining these kinds of calls now I and so many of us have to say this is how you we've been meeting up with their friends and family and all of that so I wonder if there's a ritual and that capital our sense of it but then two smaller right chill since everyday occurrences those things have become habits and become normal that were normal before you know I wonder how much do you think will emerge in the show room so the even that hi this show is getting I. thirty people as part of her at Chennai in itself that's an interesting question I hadn't thought about the smaller rituals actually but you're right yeah because like I said I've done a few of the sharing is already online and I had someone to sell it taking them and that was like the whole ritual you came and there was a waiting room chat music you know and then obviously I was doing human aids afterwards so there's a whole brain work and it's funny that you ask that because I was talking to somebody else in London as well get a little sharing and %HESITATION and she asked me the whole process with the Mitchell and I was kind of like I hadn't thought of it that way but actually yes it is actually a student of the head of every step along the way of making this show and along with this year which came along and we kind of made it happen for me because I was suddenly ahead of time and space likely right now my focus is does this work it has been it has been a ritual so yeah pretty much every element of it is I have intertwined in that way which makes me think I need to make up more I think that even more or just maybe just you know more consciously not necessarily make everything right so that might be a little bit heavy you know bring that awareness to it so you just need to check out I don't really I like that thank you I just wonder if it's another way of linking to your past our engine has to be our more recent past linking east technological advances and the rituals around using them box three times hi these things and go I suppose I mean I don't know what you're going to say I'm just talking stuff I did see her perform what little I do you know of what I've seen of your work before work because I think wasn't a debate going to another planet the PC for %HESITATION you know see you've got that XPS three S. thing humming noise in the background to that idea of going to another planet but how you actually get there you know expose rituals of travel and things like that tonight will break traveling through our computers you know so this technological facilitation of being somewhere else society is coming right I hadn't thought of it as we started it this is going on it's no it's not a problem because you're talking about travel and that the idea of a journey of something that I do feel very central to my work so you mentioned we were going to another planet in the late shows her comment here I am thinking everyone on a journey through partly my life and then these questions if you will so and poetic non linear fashion yeah song movement ritual it's interesting when you say part what I'm very interested in semantic work as well so I'm trying to find a way to take ritual also Germanic ritual perhaps and blended into weave it into the theater work and hard to %HESITATION what I'm exploring the show as well as the land which is also in the title of landing do you have any meetings so it's also the land and the question of how the Latin speaks to us being human beings in a way it's a dialogue also with and I'm going how do I know I found my place the bland %HESITATION how communicated to me so that is something if you were definitely very ancient and something we've always had that I'm trying to access through ritual and performance and my own practice has been really about tuning into that over the last years just how do I work with that innate semantic performance is way rituals and ways of %HESITATION working artistically within landscape and then here I am pulling up outside most of the time which I had not expected at all I was like I'm gonna be in a black box theatre somewhere or even that living room where I was up and you know but now I find myself mostly outside it's interesting that that has arisen in a way and it's interesting that I'm really trying to work with the elements the Latin guy see the ocean I have here that when the sun the earth but I'll be online so it's what you're talking about is how to facilitate mother's dialogue what we're talking about the three D. and then the technological so then kind of finding that balance I'm really kind of about a %HESITATION I guess the way I would use this kind of sensuous experience in the sense that you feel that you put in your body in your skin and that's what's so beautiful about live events I think I've also always been drawn to that rather than well as you grow your breathing the same air and you're feeling the emotions kind of as they happen with what's happening on stage and then obviously there's an interactive element even more engaging and I love that that's what I've always talked about performance the content of the video of it in March yeah shivers you laugh where others lack active experience in %HESITATION of emotion which can also be very cathartic transformative if you %HESITATION sometime so how do I read that into this medium where things are flat or not three D. how do you how do I get your meal you know all these emotions but to see the gauge that you're feeling them not you're just not watching a movie happening but you're there live in your part of that as well and I I want to somehow recreate that and bring the men she was mad and experience into the digital realm I'm talking about going up to impossible to doing and sometimes I'm like no but that's the whole challenge and beauty of it is that had to be back people are like oh my gosh I was transported I was no longer in my living room I was there with you as they are yes it can work I'm striving towards how do we connect to our bodies you are this material may not need some way through this medium that we have nowadays the situation called this meeting to be so every day my long attempt toward Sir but I think yeah that's what I'm looking for that's what really excites me is just having not humana more than human experience the governor in a state whatever the space it's really interesting watching you talk I think it's being on screen so much we're having to rely more on earth station expressions on our hand gestures to the visual heavy lifting of communication so it's interesting watching you marking three ideas with your hands maybe Davison describing stuff like this while we're cut off from the chastisement but we still got our faces and our hands on our shoulders are maybe that's what it is it's transferring their performance from the parts of the body that we count Sadie channeling at some height and save the gestures and the smaller areas some are concentrated areas so that that just came to mind %HESITATION as you were talking about that definitely I mean I I know I talk a lot with my hands anyway I see yeah yeah but it does help the concentrated %HESITATION yeah yeah we love the idea of it thank you yeah it's just so I think that's it maybe that's how it's transferring is that because it was funny I recording I did recently was somebody rear talking about eight forty socks saying you know so you can't see that but the performers acting still fight with their bodies and not come three in their glory so I'm wondering if that's an element that helps it come across as well is connections read a voice and then if it's interactive and other people are able to join then and feel that they can start to move boldly and maybe that transfer student voices while something else some yeah it and it just reminds me of one of the first things a job I had as a teenager in the states and we were taught to not smile opponent because it comes through I remember learning that when I was I don't know fourteen fifteen and it's true you can't beat that and so it's this whole concept of embodiment I'm talking about which is so important as it does transfer it does transfer and even though I think a year ago we would have been like I think people are more used to it now right dancing together online for example you can still have the impression of either be it for like a party a celebration or something more organized a dance class or a %HESITATION I don't know if you know five percent dancing no no I don't it's like a movement practice where you go through what's known as a wave and you go through five different buttons it's usually consulted by someone anyway briefly so it's like a movement practice and I've been doing some of those online as well and they were you initially think are you know dancing in the streets one of my screen this is ridiculous hundreds of people like all over the world and you still get that feeling it's like we're not in the same room together but we're in the same zoom room and got the facilitator and and you can connect to other people if you want you can also hide yourself but there's also that freedom which is nice not everybody was like oh watch me that not everybody wants that but you can get the feeling of like there are other people on the planet right now dancing with me and we're all moving our bodies in the sea the same music and having our own experience but somehow we're connected you know it's the energy really it's about the energetic maxim that's the interesting and strange thing probably a lot more tangible in your in a physical space together can also experience at best and it's not like you think in a way I really do if you step out let's talk for a few days and you think about it like this is why %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION on early and and we're able to do this and I'm gonna be doing a show and you will be able to see her mother right it's crazy it is magical and you can't do that then that's the energy and I thought about energy also read key practitioners working a lot better you're in a manic workable so energetic work and that's part of it I guess that sharing of that is making me smile as you talk about that because I think back in the order numbers somewhere no team just a few months ago my sense of time inside of walk April let's see autumn back in April I think it was there is a feminist Film Festival in Belfast called one day and I was able to go to a festival because it was a long line and they had a big rock party we did what you said we had is invesco and it was the best contact honestly and you think your mom my own them in the front room it's like a silent disco by myself but I'm with loads of my friends so I can't say and it was just class I was just the best fun you know and it was in our stage a he's living in England I was at I'm in England totally different cards regardless connection as we speak the language just as you were saying it was just so much fun didn't feel isolated and feel lonely was buzzing going to bed that night and for days afterwards you know it was just so much fun because I think in in a way when people come and say your body you don't have so many innovations nobody can say yet as he sang he can join in but you don't have to be on screen loads of this region recently saying the strike had little toe lace up I had a little toy a hold up and making it jumps to the catamaran people were wearing fake mosses masks and stuff and use it an artist a rebel fast he was going to pay Charlie Brian Maass masquerades headings Johnson right like that free agent you know so it's like that so yeah you do you get that connection and your %HESITATION performing it kind of ritual that you used to do in a room together and get sweaty and gross and horrible can it don't have to smell anyone it welcome bye have brought about by like that now well I'm glad you had that experience so you know what I'm talking about yeah exactly exactly and it works right you still need it and like you're saying it energizes you gives you something and I'm still connected and I think it's very very important part of the NY times just remember we are connected with the mental health and all that it's been very very challenging and %HESITATION I think I've always been drawn to this kind of idea of creating a community but right now even more so I guess it would bite lean pardon and so I want to be able to create that for a moment and we'll get you back to say that I get some hope and just to see where yeah we are all human and we have similar questions and feelings at such time and are you to share that and let that happen out and create space for that to happen written for me too obviously you know I do it because also I need it I can share that with others and create intimate moments of connection matters that are human and very beneficial in some way whether it's just being entertained and sharing the fun moments together one more thought provoking more cathartic whatever I think those moments of in kind terror as well because you don't necessarily know he's going to turn up for how many people are going to turn out and so those contingencies again but moments this connections re encounter and even if there's no %HESITATION touch but as you say you can have those other sensory experience history oral delivery of things because I think it's well there's probably a connection with oral histories and whereas they would have been passed online and been more cereal you can still be a serial but it can also be recorded and archived away this is going to be on the internet for who knows how long for example with say what you're saying I don't know if you record them or not but I guess not necessarily that will be nice and healthy and they're their own time I don't know what you'll do with top but have yet but yeah mmhm yeah I just thought ideas that you're in not moments here and not present mess with people and you're trying to be in the night and just be together at that time you know and I suppose it's a matter of focus because it's something that I guess a lot of us have been confronted with as well as hi many other sayings are going on on our screens incoming crescent but search screen on as in cold or something like that yes you know I suppose that's just more questions that are coming to mind okay well K. top and then the show maybe it's exactly that it's her innocence is something that is a camera there for that present moment you share it live here in an audience historically usually there's no telling it just bear in mind the experience I am and I think that's what's beautiful about it because you have a lot of on demand shows that have been created so that you can just click on by them and I have that option out there not the whole point is to help what you're talking about at the half that live experience as much as possible even though it's digital and actually I did try this little experiment where I had %HESITATION just for you know various reasons I couldn't perform the whole thing live I didn't have someone to help me technically so I did harden my sharing live and then I pressed play because when I did the rest from another previous sharing that I had recorded and the difference in people's memories to it was so interesting I was like it actually just answer the questions tangible different people like when I was there watching it and it was live and interactive and you know we were there with you I was really taken right and then it changed and it was just kind of like watching something I was like oh my gosh so that just confirm it's gotta be lied to me because of the nature of it and what we're talking about just that feeling of you are engaged in that moment by the late and there's that little risk because it's interactive there's always a little over a gun when I teach ins and I'm up on stage that kind of thing and you know an interactive shows so I'm making it a safe is obviously someone doesn't want to I'm never going to pressure you know whatever but there is that invitation and we saw a little and that's great because it's just like I don't want you sitting there watching you know going out or not it's like well no no this is life this is instructive I'm asking for a first sort of engagement I don't want to be just a passive you're consuming and more entertainment it's a little bit more than that great yeah you want to encourage active participation chest passes being of something and consumption but actually production from people and helping make the R. but because of that it's a collaborative thing it's not just managing the work the questions and like I said at the dialogue that we created together and it's like you were part of that dialogue and creation is well in the like what you saw today it was also like what everyone brought which is surprising thank god the whole UT a minute I wasn't expecting that answer or that kind of response and and let me get that it's like yeah so that was your part that was what you created what you brought and I want the same in this experience is obviously to help grow it grow it and it'll be different every time I like that element of surprise isn't isn't it because this is something I feared all my formative life like I want everything stroll because it's already so much going on and what you risk involved I really like things to be like I know I'm doing beginning and then there's no now I'm like no the beauty is in that proposition in the on the not knowing a risky element of bringing someone who I don't know in completely you know I'm an audience member or just allowing that space for the unknown to happen on stage and performance and I love that because that takes more trust it's harder in a way that is created and distributed across the state yeah yeah well that's okay you like it I don't know I think it's something that's like I'm not seeking protection anymore I'm speaking yeah I don't want it published in perfect we want to be alive and brought is not completely but you know have that new not not exactly right in a cross what I need yeah I think so yes I think so you can drive yourself mad to get everything perfect but then might people be more process because there's nothing making them think about it there's nothing taking the might of themselves for a moment I find anyway the artist and the imperfection the artist and the contingency whatever happens happens I think it's much more interesting than something being less polished perfect's objects because you can see the work and then you can see where people have tried and maybe it hasn't gone the way they they might have wanted or imagined but something happens and at school people thinking about something you know so there's definitely something I'm not I would say I think it's really brave performers make themselves pretty vulnerable I think I think any live performance even if it is super polyester you never know what's going to happen but when something like this right isn't translate to the absolute letter again you don't know what's gonna happen you know so I think it's incredibly brave some performers did that and then they they lay themselves quite paradoxically but I think there's the invitation then she the audience members to do the same you can be part of the same we can keep each other safe so that's maybe where that sense of community comes from exactly no it's very much what you said because many think about Leonard Cohen quote there's a crack in everything that's where the light gets in or the Japanese art and pasting the but you know what it's called the open like a vase only goal coming in and regulating it with gold I don't remember what that artist called but it's just the beauty of keeping the crack well even elevating members gold and stand out like your battle scars wearing one work hi exactly that is exactly what I want to create and that's shown I think in all my work really intimate vulnerable face I'm so afraid out it is so human and so vitally important everywhere in the world and and now I think in a way even more just come back here is out there and the sound a little cheesy but it's not it's really opening up about love and vulnerability that we all need and want to experience and share I'm talking about you know unconditional big capital L. love and having faced the state's right to do that might be saying take care of each other and not my mom and %HESITATION have you heard of the sociologist Bernie brown Renee brown is an American she's a Texan sociologist has written quite a few books one of her books have been kind of a company called braving the wilderness okay which to speak alone or something would be a yeah and they can sell so the cuticle had called about vulnerability which %HESITATION welcome the checkout our talk about the power of both of those yeah about all week yeah you know we got a strong we gotta protect ourselves in the backseat well in a way it's more resilient you know it sounds counterintuitive but to be vulnerable and open and to share your yourself more you know more authentically that's kind of where the connection happens in that auto connection is very powerful and I think that he may not like the little gold in the cracks a broken vase or not what we need but I am hoping to foster allow that to happen I thank myself quite so getting others to do that as well yes actually so I think if anybody is watching this and they're a bit on the fence about giving that a go I can assure you because I have participated in workshops and performances and Maria has been needing and I felt in very safe hands you I am super duper and your birthdate and I felt quite comfortable accede to join and then mark and and and make and our side of myself so I felt very very safe and comfortable and joyful actually today that was Maria so you'll be in very safe hands he please give Mexico thank you I'm really glad if you're interested in giving regular support for the podcast that aren't too keen on peach tree and I know I have membership options and buy me a coffee dot com forward slash P. eight there where you can get the same extras as well as some others exclusive buy me a coffee head over to buy me a coffee dot com forward slash P. eight B. LA bart to price membership options or drop a fiver into this charge thanks and enjoy the rest of the episode is there anything else that you'd like to say to protect people or anything we haven't covered I think we've covered quite a bit actually merry at sparrow scat thank you so much for this morning it's been great to catch up TV part of anything else already excited about the show and I hope it rain it goes really really well for you great thank you so much thank you for having me follow them updating you again okay ET okay folks to check out his performance and her other work currency speaking instincts I'm below so thanks everyone take care see you next time