Audiovisual Cultures episode 115 – Performance Art with Richard James Hall automated transcript

Show notes
This conversation with artist Richard James Hall was recorded and broadcast for the Slack's Radio residency as part of Blazing New Worlds at the NewBridge Project in January 2022. 
Discussion topics include: 
    • performance art, drawing, creativity, video, Instagram Live, curating  
    • disability, autism, bodies, being queer 
    • engagements with other artists such as Sally Madge and Victoria Gray 
    • the arts in Newcastle upon Tyne and North East England 
    • being a member of NewBridge 

Image from Dick’s ‘Crossing the Summer River’ performance in 2016, photo by Arto Polus.
If you enjoy this chat, please give it a good rating and share it with a friend! 
Auto-captioned videos on YouTube.
Recorded using Zencastr on 19 January 2022 and Audacity on 8 February 2022. 
Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity. 
Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license. 
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hello and welcome to the audio facial cultures the podcast part eight year host Paul let Blair investigate different areas of film media at the arts and cultural production in this episode I am delighted to share with you a recording I am me it's with Newcastle based artist Richard jams hold for the Sox radio residency at the new bridge project a budget which you can find more information by following the links in the show notes wherever you're listening to this deck is a very dear friend of mine and a big supporter of this show and I've been wanting to do a recording with them for awhile so this was a really lovely way to go up by that and I'm really grateful to you you bridge and socks for the opportunity if you'll recall take featured on our special remembering Sally match episode last autumn and it's great night to talk said tech personally up by their own practice which is largely through process and performance arts and if you've been missing for a while you know that to bake and tracks if mine is live performance art so before I pass over to our past selves %HESITATION past pastels huge thanks to all our listeners and said are very generous benefactors over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures all of you thought make doing this and my very busy January with all of these recordings furry purse while if you love what I'm doing with the show and she can't manage to support the work financially I'd really appreciate it a positive review and rating for every access a podcast and a based on your socials which also be rainy rainy appreciated I'm so grateful when people say that it really means a lot but if you can manage even just a one off if you quit I'd be so grateful for that you can see that so radically on our lovely upgraded website funded by our patrons audio visual cultures dot com where you can also sign up to our mailing list to receive our free monthly newsletter Anthony episodes notifications streets to your inbox as well as access transcripts and generally get more information and thanks for everything to do with me on the show so %HESITATION finale before you run off and deal of science I want you to really enjoy this insightful talks with Dick James hall I know I really enjoyed all my talks Richard GM's hall thank you so much for joining me thank you so much for inviting me Pola it's great to catch up so my first question would you be happy T. describe your practice for everyone in the short term I would say I am a performance artist based in Newcastle upon Tyne the longer way about two days I'm a performance artist who also does I think kinds of whack on the side and has come from a tradition of improvised sectional performance but also realizing and having to think about now the factor of how much being on the autistic spectrum being clear being fast teams and affects myself and the world around me it's a very strange questioning them having to go for you and I'm constantly questioning myself which makes it very hard to think about projects and to be honest practice supplies some just like taking it day by day week by week yet I yes it's a really long time gentle point about that's about how I would describe my practice so follow me thanks I've had the privilege of being able to see your live performance and the before times when it is safe to gather but I also really enjoy aids over the lock time periods here experimental weapons say performances on Instagram life and I think those are where you really explored a lot of those kinds of same set you just flagged off their bite identity and taking up space and moving through space yes and playing with all Jackson just the life work but doing it to where it's calmer and I really enjoyed that a lot as well as those what else specifically would you say you've been working on recently and I think we can be very elastic about what we mean by Yuri sends a header what else would you say if the marking on because I know you do a lot of drawing as well I was doing a lot of touring and I kinda Hey this sort of roadblock because recently about a few months ago I was invited to do my fast performance the audience and %HESITATION via free is actually for no trace without resistance which was a memorial offend for the late great Sally mad shit and for that I was in a lab coat which I had to order in because I thought about wearing Sally's lab coat she was very very much smaller move me so %HESITATION Denton alab coach and that's not code seen some action button days before that offense including doing a trip from shields field on the bus where all the people that go in like keep away from me from the testing site %HESITATION I'm in the middle of town going through old charity shops because I was looking for China plates and China tea cups and all that %HESITATION center Johnston also a fantastic performance artist and I'm just like going through each charity shop going like no no and I'm ending up with this bunch of plates and all this trainer and I'm like going is this right it's cold cold trimming my S. but on foot up on the day itself I had a lint roller I had a few lane troll is some fine French chalk and I'm just proud of the day I was just rolling this Lynch rolled over the fan use cinema scenes because the venue itself is the star channel cinema and I'm just rolling away trying to cover up best hand the little bits of fabric you know about that slapped behind from use and it was interesting actually saying how much of the past is picked up by this this Dastis Moscow time which was very much a tradition that Sally match basically use within have practice which was to pick up on the mundane things and just celebrated so I did that for about five hours in terms of other things apart from being filled with some sort of mysterious bacterial and viral infection I saw a really interesting piece of performance work by another artist called Victoria gray no actually wrote it's very rare that I write in response to artworks but this one just struck me because she actually was addressing being on the autistic spectrum and actually being recently diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum which was really interesting to me and as I'm writing is an essential stuff and I re read it I'm going %HESITATION I'm picking up on stuff that I have experienced that's a few people who I have known have also experienced so in a way my practice is fairly elastic and recently I've also been waking up on the soldiers soft practice launch of a survey of seven matches where at parks docked was trying to install some heroic in waves stat isn't academically structures all institutionally structured but actually played about with SS you are the artists so I've been piling up cuddly toys into the corner of the room I've been trying to stand up cushions which demand select B. fold down benches constantly having this on off discussion about how certain things come alive with the artist's touch robin and perhaps the curatorial touch in Newton so I've been having a bit of discussion with a couple of other people about that about terminal the curators meant to care about classic and yet it's us the artists who actually seem to be showing the most cash and the most dynamic form of cash which is to actually bring to life those wax which was so enormous and also think about how it is the pro sets itself that brings those works to live it's not just like an institutional taxonomy saying process but that's a very this is also lead you can tell I've been doing an MA and hung around PhD student quite a long time because I have that critical for process that's really useful insight actually %HESITATION I really appreciate those ideas I think that's a lovely way of putting it as well as the idea of taking care of the arts not just putting it somewhere in San Mart like slicing no backseat carrying forests and the kitchen she's talking about it especially because they're fragments of fabric that Sally painstakingly closets together and they've been washed up on the shore so who knows where they came from and that speaks of clothes and things you know so they're very human I think her intention was to give some some sort of dynamism and slice and sterile different shapes and sizes just like humans are and there are no billion there by Katie and %HESITATION to silence some bets and just like humans are and they're coming apart sure there you there so soon together they're awful tough it's really wonderful to hear that you've been able to play with those and have thought life experience because I think that's where the passive performance already come site as when you play with things and you have the opportunity to play and sometimes that the material the G. and you facilitate rather than forcing it into something I think that's the key part of any sort to improvise ation %HESITATION performance practice it's all fine and well having the infection diet DHEA but sometimes you have to let yourself be led by the materials besides the people around you yes very much in a dynamic state it's very hard to actually stay static I had my is some artists who actually had to generational static way back but it's just so slow that the melts happens I've tried that once for an hour I couldn't do it I haven't got the practice or the patience for it I'm very much like a ten gentil practitioner eight eight something catches my interest %HESITATION I'm kind of old to okay that sounds really childish in a way that it's just my way of going about it I like the dynamism I like to be invigorated somehow but of course there's also moments where you have to take stock and you have to stand back and actually trying to go like this is no time to Lolo it's do you find that these are quite and cheered us processes C. just really listen to yourself and see what you need today or how much do you allow yourself to you to what extent the G. plan something before you go into S. or GHS have an idea and you see what happens I would say I have an idea it's very read that I has the overall vision of something it's much mall on the emotional scale for me there's no hard structures to really work with apart from perhaps the site itself there are some things you just can never fall so change you can't change your environment entirely without great pains to do so okay your materials there's a level of care with materials but there's also a level of understanding that once you do something destructive you basically kind of took away some fence original intent and you have to live with that and you have to clean up after that I flinch from experience that you have to take responsibility as a performance artist that in a way that you are having show cat to the site to the materials or understand that there is consequences once you destroy the materials people around you because people are unpredictable and there may be times where you may have to shift out a little bit from performance from one performance state to another state to react to another person who may be in the audience at the end of today yeah I also have to care for yourself because it's some nice and well when you have other people supporting you but sometimes when you're actually by yourself as I have been throughout some of the experimental Wednesdays and fraud some of the experiments of had done in public ground wax before you are basically having to take care of yourself and I understand what you need to do to recuperate all what you need to watch out full so there's a responsibility to the play as well and I feel like that's something I'm growing into because when you're young you're sort of slap dash thank god I actually was in a workshop ones and this kids basically interest was going off on one ninety actually was just like destroying everything around him and asked the end defense because we let them go through this let him do what he did and at the end of it I just basically said to him in a way that was so exciting I have been in that place I have been in that destructive area but you have to be away and now that your destruction has caused the fact around you so in a way I was kinda kicking is I'll spend an assaultive caring way and I was trying to show a level of cab actually kind of going like I'm kicking your house right now but only because I want you to let but it because some people don't do that turned and maybe one of the few people to actually step up to the plate to go and make active in the market for yeah so thank you Spain a member of mu Prich for awhile but she sent me that there might be anything you've learned from being part of the French or any experiences you've had particulars Newbridge or is there anything you can reflect on a plate to share experience of being a member I would say as of any studio situation it varies from studio to studio I've been in some tight knit studios where I'm sharing one room with may be for artists or maybe sharing this massive garage with eight to eleven artists with no boundary points and it's interesting to me how new bridge festival in Laos the boundary space so that Joe's studio is your studio and that's something that's in some ways I've really crave tunes because I'm quite a messy studio hold I'm not eighteen Messi I had one studio member years ago and it was that this was the last straw for me we had a shed fridge need basically the last wild mushrooms in the fridge for about a week and when I open the fridge it's like no no well I actually had to get everything out to die frage check out the mushrooms and tried to clean up drive entire fridge and it still smells of mushroom sold the bleaching of acted I concluded it just was like nope bad smells not going what I'm finding less new bridge is for the fact that even for you may have separate studios there's still a community which I really appreciate I'm talking to artists who have just graduated from university and I'm like trying to get them like the little things look like yet try to keep you practice separately studios so you can at least keep up the momentum because we're meant to people who do with Todd courses and then they don't continue to practice you kind of lose the momentum any other use the want to box if you don't keep the practice up but it's interesting as well having talked in whack with members of staff at new bridge as well there is a level okay and there is a level of wanting things to change both within the studio settings but also in the wider spectrum of the community over the last few years especially since I've only came into new bridge September twenty nineteen and there's been times when members of that community has actually supported me when I have been at my lowest lows actually had her back to give me a call of a lockdown ones Rebecca Huggins I rector of new bridge and she basically just wanted to check in on me that's something that I don't think a lot of institutions usually do and I think that shows the amount of cash that's Newbridge shows towards since member is but of course sometimes members also push the lack a little bit and new bridge won't be afraid to choose basically co sought to shed her %HESITATION don't leave your stuff ready for us in this to start fires well I feel like it's also like it's a mix of training ground for recent graduates but also it allows space for older artists to work in a studio setting amongst the community especially with hollow space is a premium now especially in cityscapes and heads of studios outside of the city but it's usually people who have a little bit more money well a little bit more know how about how the infrastructure work ethics and I'm not quite at that place now financially or know how to actually kind of have a space outside yes but I really appreciate new brands on that level it's just a nice space it's somewhere where I would recommend any recent graduates to apply for especially if the local based I was wondering if you have any thoughts about aids the arts in new castle quite generally and across the northeast region that you'd be happy to share I mean you mentioned for example you branch being in shale fields and that's quite a recent maze and premises in the city centre but do you have any thoughts about it but the art scene so I can see what it's like in the city and in the region I would say Newcastle as to not seem itself is a fairly tightly nets group so there are times where there are people who I see two artists who I recognize but I don't quite know of but there's always that sort of thing off when you're walking down the street and you see somebody in your chest notes from the scene and you just give them the slight tilt open knowledge just to kind of go like I see it and because I'm not entirely beneficial me because sometimes if I don't get to tell took the note back when I gave the tilt of the knowledge back and it's like just like for the audio that was two flips of the birds that I think it's well in terms of new castle it is a little bit of a struggle at times because the northeast as a region has always kind of struggled with the odds because we've always been seen as like the leftover region in England itself if anything there are some people in other regions of England who actually consent to Newcastle in northeast actually be heart of Scotland yes so this these questions of like winter we'd be better off if we were in adopted by the Scottish oh do we have to really fight hard to win full funding but it's also back case of new castle has some of the free weights actually experimental work in because economically rent here is not too bad it's actually fairly cheap compared to some of the regions where it's small popular to live and it is it has produced some really great artists of the is what I'm finding as well as some of the great artists that I know of unknown only locally in this the likes of Carol Luby and Sally match for example who they're artists who are locally known and that my it locally but outside of the region it's very much like a nobody quite knows and I find that quite shocking I actually went down to the life of development agency in London I tried to type performance artists from Newcastle upon Tyne there was very little info we have a very rich history of performance and experimental %HESITATION it's shocking but it's also not shocking at the same time and you have to take it as it is you kind of have to take the fact to roles you can have a practice here but you may have to explore outside of the region itself just to get back in touch I will say people from Newcastle have a very good sort of hockey communities well we love to celebrate our own when one of our own actually succeeds in something well like yes yes and when maybe against attrition or something let sit self down what kind of like going gods why and they coasted with any sort of tight knit community there's also like a bit of gossip and chatting behind people's backs and it's even done lovingly or it's done with a bit of exceeding it even today anything like contact him sure well I'd like to spend a little bit team now and again okay so the laugh I'm not afraid to basically say to some people I have said to some fairly successful mid career artists bullshit I'm not afraid because I'm now at the point I'm very five I know I'm not going to be like famous all have the money I'm just being honest to myself to the community around me and also just kind of go in like time is precious if you're not going to be honest it sometimes leads to bad situations where is the honesty itself can actually be quite transporters and can help take away some of the egotism the one thing I will say is we can probably do a little bit more criticality but in the sense of kind of going like what being critical but in a supportive manner and I have said some things which I probably put me in the back big swells fewer people %HESITATION I've had a few conversations with curators just kind of going like really but it's just life I love it here it's the one place I feel the most me acts as I tried doing it down in London and London does my head in London's a place I know I have to visit at least may be recall kind that make I knew I had to visit the least once a year because it's just the way of the Welton but if I could help it I wouldn't go down Sutherland as much but %HESITATION I trying to also bring news of new castle to go outside of the region and just kind of go like come yes hello my pipe and done that's medic to pay you just have to scratch the surface a little bit and not be afraid of because sometimes we'll hang about in some of the dingy pilot sometime as well and just be like it's not this bad doesn't let X. I had one taxi driver tried to pick me up once a bank at me just was like well it's Raphael lake and I was like have you been in battle your chest list anywhere like that like I just went it's not that rusty and free and come through Russia places before and I'm just like this is a very thank you so much for this where can people find out more about you and your work query to point them towards online you can look me up on Instagram at St James hold because people also call me desk I call myself sometimes mistake mistake made today one day I hope to be doctor did they also and website I has W. W. dots judge James whole duct weekly dot com you might just want to type in Richard James hall artist of it and just give it a go that's what you know you're on the right page when you see somebody who's just like quite fast with long head and the first images like trust me I'm a slow going like the electorate for folks thank you so much thank you son upset pleasure I always love our tasks and it's not brilliant to have this proper a more formal chat with each day and I really appreciate it and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day thank you so much I hope to get disposable tea with you say please it Hey right I just wanted to see extend my thanks to check again for thanks and I hope that they'll return so that we can go into a lot more detail on a lot of those issues three is there because I think there are things that we started to touch on that merit a lot more dapps but I was recording this for quite a tight time slots so it was a fairly concise conversation so I thought I'd just take the opportunity nine AM I'm recording this in February doing a bit of time traveling because that talk was probably set the thirty year it was originally recorded in January around mid January %HESITATION as early as February and yeah it's really nice opportunity actually there are some Bach over these and reflect on them a little bit and take out some ideas on how you to maybe develop some more of these themes and issues that are coming up across these episodes the next one is going to be the third of the recordings that I did for the S. with Bethany stats so that's a really lovely conversation as well so please stay keep subscribe and then check out our latest file yes so I just thought I'd take a minute because that has been a fairly short bonds is just perfect about more and some of the observations I think there's a lot of crossover here with the professional and the personal three some of the things that tech was referring to there I'd really like take knowledge that we seem a bit snappy up by arch curators and more formal and institutionalized approaches to presenting wrecking galleries and exhibitions I mean I try to be really open minded but you know sometimes is laptop and I stepped up in this one of bets and probably come across is but negative and part G. T. not to create practices we encounters are Ryan the commemorative events for Sally match that we mentioned and those events took place in November of twenty twenty one and I just wanna be radiate beauty care every single person who works in all of those events in the exhibition and everything we all contributed to our time for for a the curators particularly that so out quite great personal cost to themselves and it was hugely stressful under very challenging circumstances I'm very limiting circumstances as well but on the other side of that they also didn't listen to the wishes of those of us who actually worked directly with Sally's pieces and I felt that they made some presentation decisions that they thought looked nice looked as good as they kids and the space that they were given but I think there were others of us he felt that these particular presentations of specific things were missteps I am being deliberately vague here I'm not naming things directly I'm not going to name many people I just felt that you know there were quite a few of us who have a lot more knowledge and understanding of the contacts the rind a lot of the work and physically works with them as well I did a lot of finishing of Sally's unfinished pieces not just me other people that that sort of work as well so there is a lot of very invisible labor that went behind getting the pieces ready for exhibition and also for Sally's physical archives and I just felt that the missteps and hi some of these representatives and the gallery it probably should at a potentially negative lights if your roof year he came in cold and you really engaged actively with the pace and sought its rate I don't think you have come to a very positive conclusion so again I'm being really vague but if you witness center if you seen images of it you might be able to work out what I'm talking about yes but I'm not gonna talk about it directly and there is a little bit of my thinking on this because I I do I wrote a blog post thinking three and she's around part labor and not something I've talked I talked at length with Sally about eats there's also a particular thing that happens with something I mean it's that I posted on my end my personal Instagram page so if you want to go to a gang you're welcome to go and hunt for those but I'm not going to thanks to them directly as I say I don't want to name any names and I don't actually think it's first ready to piling on too much and this is probably I hope the last probably talk about it thanks bye everybody who was involved contributed to with the opposite passive intentions and this isn't hello I think it's worse dying on edge is what I will say I think it's more it sparks rather than the personal it sparked more of an intellectual curiosity about art the upper and the worst of work and those are two things again all things I talk to bite off miss Holly and I keep bringing up on this podcast nobody seems to be getting the message not enough people are listening to %HESITATION maybe maybe everybody less since this gets the message and I need more of these people to listen and get the message so what I would like to say is that I would like to see more respect and consideration for art laborers are two workers and recognition that an artist might have their name on something but they don't necessarily make the work on and Sally's case that was different because she died she was making the work herself and then she died and so a bunch of us finished at or did something less the things that were and transaction but it's something I was thinking out about it a lot anyway with Sam you know sort of more bigger Anne am CMS artists he got loads of money thrown at them or make use of money in the right Sally wasn't one of those people but even still even just out workers doing that Leah Byrne but you I give a lot of my summer last year to doing the work of putting these pieces together and finishing things and I don't care about recognition but what happened in my case was that something of mine was actually destroyed so it's not to stop it you know I don't care about being raised in carpet being visible but something I actually made it and dead with my bare hands was destroyed in the process of this is the way it brandy spun me on a train of thought of thinking about partly uppers and our keepers here at once the CM mass and distinct from artists so this is an issue that was presented front and center and so much of Sally's work to the point that she did performances for what she need pen badges that sads flux worker on them and that was specific to you when she was responding three performance to the flux this retrospective oil tank and two thousand nine and this was a performance that perished but tech was talking about right there an artist's caring for other artists work to really extremes quite funny extremes but also she was provocative of thought and I'll link to some of that work in the show notes and so %HESITATION and turn that's what a few of the state for Sally spark in the year following her death we cared for her work I felt for a person a Costa Sally when I was working with her pieces you know I would have her some of her cations sitting on me while I closed them up and stop is very meaningful because it felt like a kid how good this thing that was part of her and it was very personal but that's not the peace and I'm really talking about aids I think the thing that was really hurtful for me on a personal level was set at an embroidered dedication of very small embroidered dedication I had put on one of the really large pieces I had made artistic bets Sally never called tape was baptized with light me being notified without being asked I turned up to the opening night and I saw that it was gone and I thought I was going mad and on the I had taken a photograph of it at home before I gave it away I knew I wasn't going completely mass on it I had actually so nice then on it was just wrapped ice I was completely gone it wasn't even discovered over it was just gone and so I think there's quite a few here sis because obviously it was personally a bet on the front but then it also files a lot more generally like in the front seat the visibility of the art worker and merging from the artist's shadow and this was something solely did quite a lot and her art she laid bare the process of the worker Ryan to making art if you listen back to my episode with her one of her performances cold making a mass and cleaning it up her whole performance is a bite you know she doesn't aren't working as pages and then most of the performance is actually her cleaning up the mess that she's made for the performance so there's a collapse of the artwork in the art labor and then what is performance and what is just cleaning up the collapse into each other and a very very tiny way this was something I was referencing was just to making the work Abed visible and mine of AC isn't terribly powerful and I wouldn't call him anything like that but it's just in my own little way doing something that I think Sally may have approved often that I discussed with her quite a bit not any other layers thought is that embroidery and needlework are considered as Croft's rather than art again this is something that has come up in the podcast before if you go back to one of our earlier episodes while Coulthard crafts this is something that me and my gas and not absolute talk about it at length as well as what's processes what methods are even considered to be arch so my hand stitched embroidered writing wasn't considered art by these curators and I mean I don't know they're thinking about it because I haven't spoken to me and that's that's part of the problem is that they've never communicated with me I spoke to them on the opening night before I had to realize what had happened and it just even speaking to them for a few minutes it was really clear that the result law they didn't know up by the pieces that I and another person had finished and the pieces that I it by myself had me it's the richest so much detail they didn't have and they have my email address I am easy to reach him easy to find I picked myself all over the internet I'm not hiding anywhere folks again there's a lot going on there so I don't want to just when you bite it too much but yeah so it got me thinking about eight not just for me in a personal level but for just those larger questions I think about it he gets to be an artist walk gets to be an artwork what gets to be an art pro sass you know I think we're still not answering those questions adequately with Sally staff there is no I. another lock and he is asking those questions through the work itself three the process itself and so I suppose I just really wanted to hot spot on because the remains no consensus on high any of these things can really be property defines and he gets said to find not and I suppose a presented us with the fact that there is still very stringent can't keep bang of the bi injuries Orion's creative practice creative practices and so I thought I would just sit through those extra observation site there and just ask you to think about I thought for a bit so thanks if you've listened to my little extra rumbled huge thanks again C. deck I hope that that's gonna stop by to my system thank you for this

Audiovisual Cultures episode 114 – Vane with Paul Stone and Chris Yeats automated transcript

hello and welcome to the audio visual cultures hi I'm Paul left in there thank you for joining me for another foray into the world of media arts and culture this conversation was originally recorded as a contribution to the Sox radio residency at the new bridge project a new bridge is an artist's studio gallery and project space in Newcastle upon Tyne and the north east of England's more information about all of that is linked in the show notes wherever you're accessing this episode's along with lots of other useful links a bite to taste casts I'm really pleased to present this longer cuts of my chats with directors of V. N. pol stone and Chris units he generously talk through some of fans history as an artist led organisation and gallery and its recent necessitated may from Newcastle city it's heads we also talked about the impact of the pandemic as well as the lingering ramifications of the T. Tyson its economic crash and I just all of these things have affected the arts psychology and funding and everything quite generally hopefully by the time this episode releases there will be firm our plans that we can share a bite what twenty twenty T. is looking like for fan which significantly has its twenty fifth anniversary in the summer do check our socials for that we are AT cultures pods I'll probably be doing a lot of sharing of what fan are up to date I know as I record this certainty on Instagram they're sharing past exhibitions that they want to highlight from the past twenty five years do you check them by their fee and calorie wherever you're taking foreign socials as ever a huge big massive thank you you too all our listeners fortune and then answer all of our very generous patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for keeping us going as you'll hear in this episode it's a really tough climate for all areas of arts and the creative industries just nine and a big message coming out of this conversation is the arts are non negotiable and we need to fight for them we need to fight as well for her arts criticism I always keep coming back to see the conversations I always had was solidly match appoints folly and worse so I really hope that and if you're listening can take away some messages safari around the sayings and that we can really start to push back on the cuts were facing an arts and humanities education and the arts and culture sector for now I am going to pass you over to Poland Chris it's reedy radian site file hope you get a lot I defend I hope it does give you some food for thought and we can really figure out how we can make our best friend Paul stone and see it thank you so much for joining me for the S. hyphen really came to speak to both surprised fan for some time and I'm just delighted at this socks media residents say giving me the excuse to finally jump and then to give you both the Shiites the Syrian was established in nineteen ninety seven and I think it C. H. and the timing of that is something we might talk about a little bit but Kitty chief he and turned describe your roles as directors and maybe a bit of your own history with B. N. O. tri poll first and then move on to crest so be nice to get the voice attached to damn sis while I say %HESITATION I'm told I'm the creative director of Bain and I'm also gonna tie rack to choose kinds of direct summoned director bangs company the old side %HESITATION great start speeds and chalk Graham the sole saying many of the things they send you to this in your organization startup challenge talks between us the point is to decide is that it didn't actually sets banging up with those involved from the very early days and since I'm from express to the public manifestation everything is kind of thought into this role rather than you know it wasn't a job that I applied for because there was no joke start with helps creates the joke we're not backgrounds and since the northeast as I came here as students in the late eighties I went to North America which I have a BA and MA in fine all fine despite this is not just after graduation lodging mice and stuff I was doing was outside the region one of the things that led me to come and vote in organizing projects and become a trusted name when it was set up was the fact that there weren't many opportunities for artists in the northeast so we decided to make all right basically all right Chris all the time right just saying we are obviously a small organization but we have a long history I will was involved from the initial steps back in the nineties I was actually it also student at Northumbria but I was doing my MA and I found out this was an organization promoting normalization group of artists not just used to meet on a regular basis and pumps on the city center and we were really just talking shop people just get together and discuss the work and it was first mooted at one of those meetings back in ninety six that'd be good to have a grassroots event it was at that point that we decided to kind of what would be called a festival but it seems a venture round the city affection that became strained ninety seven the first thing thanks was it was it was a way of actually creating opportunities for artists in the area we always wanted to do something which showcased what was going on it was it was an open access is not so it's going to be obnoxious to any any %HESITATION two stocks were involved just say I'm just I'm actually from the northeast originally so when you counsel I've moved all over the country so I got to get my first degree down college sitting in MA a relatively light sentences choose student I suppose at nothing but it was way back into my practice is at that point she done any organizing the other shows so that was a big move I think that was moved over to the dark side okay as a group producing web select but it knows only van offense the first four from nineteen ninety seven to two thousand both caught myself did participate as artists later on we moved to sack not really going to appoint that's enough for the world about me that's okay Sanchi it's really great said here more papers if you're back crimes because you do so much facilitating of so many other artists so it's nice to have a bit of the spotlight on each TV I think in case there's anyone listening he doesn't know very much about eight A. N. hi E. G. thank everybody best describes nice are you giving us a nice idea of the history of high it emerged by hiding his head being operating Grady said Stan is quite difficult questions one that sort of constant eight Texas so do not just cases I mean it's not longer story could cost you see results of the developments in the outlook examining some of that over this year because we're doing a lot of work on the knock on so global data sets this kind of sort of mold on two faces divine this is been a long process but to answer your question we started out we called ourselves not just that organization that is crisp wanted out because we when it became more of a job as an admin I'm developing payments which you didn't at the beginning research aside from not this office now we more recently this is possible working through decades a couple decades we've beginning to defuse the phrase office that again we're not sure I'm working on just because we feel that that is a good description of what we do and it never really wasn't the case spot iron artistic practice might just put on the back burner as he became boss everywhere organizes curates as soon as ISIS we're not sure that's always been very very much Cole how we approach this a project is the times being an artistic practice that is a long conversation about what is autistic watches and you use it he doesn't we've been very much involved in the world and by me throughout thank you St city of deciding what the best model for us cells Wallace is always been very much picking and choosing what we thought were the best bet some of the models means that are eating their guidance when we set up from the licensing process in network I'm still looking things to die and not more so it is interesting to us either that's something that we should be working as well whether it be looking at stuff and saying that's what shouldn't be happening you know what we do is such a good reaction because that's part of the process is still to formulating what we do move anybody comes out so it's a decision I really lost during the time that it also comes in which the public profile like lots of places because we've been open classes until such relocates nastiest US secretary print so it's almost like we re imagined now what is that and using the title let's say this whole sordid bites not readable is office that we should use it the people should be using lots of going back to history of how old the sort of what if you want to call it a group that would be impossible around the U. caning the paroled unless things start up Oxlade I would argue not radiologists that anymore because they become institutionalized one thing that runs through paying nothing Kay is a resistance to being institutionalized not serve challenging place to be in because it means it's not just a sort of Stalin's successor purist on cementing light box if you pay the price stocks as well as in like if you don't take certain routes you know you will get money for certain things I mean we do get some money for things that you know it keeps you in a certain neurons lands in some cases the banks sector releases such as my son overground to say isn't it in resistance what was happening at the time and I think there's always been a little bit of a gentleman be spiking a set that is almost like sitting in a straight night refusing to do things in a certain way not just sheer bloody mindedness that just because I actually think that's a different way to do it what is almost been reluctant to use one of the terms of we don't so we don't think of myself as curates such neither was a come from a formal Q. rating background since our June the PMA in that subject we've always taken the parts of the world in order to facilitate something is about to turn for what we do and that we never really have a presented a sort of heavy handed approach he said this is the team this is what you're going to do I mean we do we have put shows together just seems but would also allow the boxes the room about not so it's never been a question of we have to tell you to what was done in terms of obviously there are we talking actually how we assist in certain ways but we we've never taken our very very heavy handed this is the socks into it that makes the program is directed by artists yes so that's kind of who gets too great a focus leads down to a number of things that we some that's proactively submitted by exit why does some bits comes to us from what I've heard anything from direct proposals to you maybe negotiation every years of people saying what about this idea so it's values you know I'll let live open to not stand can be minimal to quite major not where the level when he publicly viewable I'm not gonna talk about CD cases this is not meant to be a suspect is not an ego driven yeah duration even if we also involved a correction center definitely think about stocks that thing it means the pregnant friend much is when we work on it and likewise the other discount when working on Saturday shows which took lots and lots of guns in those things come very much is that almost finished products some of them are a lot more loosen on phones and I dare make you work the top kind of artists in more detail in this again that's not to say visible from the outside and neither is it meant to be because it's not about and neither my training it sort of all this open free for all because it's not all anger started like that it is not now we took a long time beating away from now I mean it's kind about trying to do the guiding role then yes imposing there's also some of the changes that will say %HESITATION external ones that ask you do you receive money offices sent things that that sort of expected I don't mean that we do things we don't want to that's not true but again it's not just a sort of personal space I think from the outside we get this clock nothing less people artistically you know kind of thing this set that will die scratching our chins and sums up from down to people's work and it's just so far from the truth whatever you got full stop %HESITATION it's about you know points to five percent of the time it's not I think I mean you know how to say no to a lot of really good things yeah we would really like to date there is you know I mean anything supplied was accidentally gender singing there's no obligations have sort of balance and look outside of our own experience backgrounds incentives it's contents the program negative deal that we did that comes from people I mean but we approach people some of the times people kind of not shy approaching us I mean I think says it's it's it's question moving beyond our own personal tastes about taught me one thing when we try and let me do it it definitely is having this kind of tokenism and the way we program we're very aware of all the debates and ideas all the interested parties what we do it we do it in a when we program in a very %HESITATION and it's passed away it's it's we have our own flavor that we want to get to them as we have our own ideas about it but we we want just to give the artists in the most conclusive way so we want to give them that freedom and that actual voice such a very conscious of being Pachter topic if you open a pick a well actually when I just go over every inclusive in that sense no we not we wouldn't show web that we couldn't stand behind it might not be specifically talk personal texts such a certain nations of what that means you know changeover times I'm wrong it will recurring thing over Baynes longer lifespan now is that the certain things you can say kind of mission or whatever there's been constant from the very beginning things actually taken many folds I mean typically I think I've lost unions grad also wanted to debate about access to but also things that exactly suited within the art world what is it doing shows what should be long long to send email nope not anymore network us on analysis where you actually get the gallery space the last time the weather actually talking to a high concept curated shows whether you're talking about having a group the actually on salt is whatever reason that involving creativity on the looking for space show where what they does is give the space those people yes that would be disingenuous to say that's no kind of negotiation about schools I mean also distant things come gone do for whatever reason would be that society schools complete character but I mean space out trying to get that person talks articulate what they're doing as best as possible with helping them but not trying spokesman gonna be coming up with what he's going to sensitive institution I'm thinking of people sitting in the huge pressure institutionalized itself right now right we have to wait for me to even talk about buying this organization when it's two people to the contrary I think between themselves doesn't work like the stock may be breaking into someone's on your show every now and again yeah I was hoping it again you can make a whole series about what is access we are seeing a random choice seeing as an institution by some people outside because we've been around so long and especially serving abroad this was just that however that would come with you I mean one of the things that's famous founded on walls because when it was just like what you just because you see stuff all the time %HESITATION you know take over not just have a shot I will put you working great but yes things do not solicit I mean the reading walls back in the dog days of nineteen ninety six I mean the fewer calories full stop to be a local law to stand I mean was largely dominated by stock that one of the two universities in New yeah not a great northeast about the wish I was you know when it was new castle the new castle group it was also told that Univest outside the academic system yeah I was not %HESITATION whether student groups result she bangs early beginnings very much grew from adults you get groups not seeded ridge properties we think off now things I knew pretty things are not these are I mean lots of pains it's based because also meant to sound like a dog cages you know when you talk about nineteen ninety six after member that will be but since G. save Georgia people didn't have an email or by about that's true so when talking about how people networks it wasn't doing things that what we're doing now it wasn't great and what's not its stock from that network is a machine that is about the monthly meetings and pups the stock physical thing was the only real at the lychee hops get they haven't used to bring that equipment that welcome all right disposed to cross the web connection right it was very different well yeah you know to the house you know how's it look downsides because again it was I don't know I don't know really what's complete crap to contents networks difficult extends to students about the good for the people there and that is all kinds of ways you should exclude people not deliberately and consciously and not something you just need to keep looking out windows meetings become people came to the book once a week in the evening we have the high room well either we sat down beside stone decisions you know I mean when the hands up in the attic not %HESITATION is a hell of a lot of it is also a lot of sort of mythology around offices let's stop being Democratico collective you know I mean it's it's fine in some instances in other instances not the story of Bangor went boy will this intricate details of it I have the space to do for five years before we had the gallery about you having to go we call be making these decisions with their thirty white folks every time at some point if it's to progress beyond we came from his reaction to the not being any opportunity we created opportunities eight people called greatest opportunity but then actually you get to another level where do you go next actually to go somewhere next so more great it has to be in charge yeah all we stay right where it was a big debate I mean I haven't really talked about yet in an ice my set up when the national lottery started in the early nineties the funding they also not there's a year or something up until the year two thousand you took out of the office so those year architectures year it shouldn't see the different city or region in nineteen ninety six the north east of England and Cumbria at the so the last official gonna celebrations it's not a lot of big name artists logic or shoot it and you should construct some which I was also as it neared Pontificio program also there's lots of different stuff now based off the nice guy second because it actually grew out of the discussions officer having in ninety six and how bout they all she wants to do something but there's some there's also done something in ninety six is sort of cringe cylinder refuse I against that of what was happening in ninety six or just not really against what was very nice it just actually please look at this as well yeah name is actually always step in that was kind of bit ram truck will start with always walls about looking at longer term you do still strikes away saying let's build something that kind of exist whatever reason it was kind of funding legislation so mice the the wall so I did it on the band's eggs and breakfast was still doing it says very nice and very nice it rain or something two thousand it's a long story short kind of went from fifty artistic not seven largest banks yeah I was do you guys think about my time goes two thousand fifteen eighty exhibitions in two months and two hundred office largest antique shops should taking over not consult with one of the cycles of generation your customers lost and shops you know it's it grew into this monster almost well yes very good a real kind of another thing that people don't notice much now well because this generation and I'm looking I'm just looking archive there was actually told that about well it's got so successful back to commerce you can keep doing this we could do it every year Lasker citizen participation actually while he was going to do it we went to me we were either not working on the doll all working part time things not not mean anything it reached a point of stopping also I was you know going from my background and yeah I think it served its purpose yes Sir %HESITATION that thing was well actually what is going to come next and not short came most species selected working with the people on the network I was talking about earlier longshots lessons of Morris you should come on things not to be confused with selected shows shows I am in the early two thousands before we actually extends side noodles into the face crying because when they're selected actually lost in the same office we can expect it each time I say much less at the gallery just be done with this kind of tending am to shops in Tempe spaces online %HESITATION undo that extends but hope to have that space for a few years without such what best served in Europe but also not you what brings in the beginning it's really time possibly months with the people that's going to do that sort of stuff I'm not and I'm no way I'm very proud of what we did what she traded in those first few years the improper hot and you have got some people don't understand the impact it's actually I don't what's existence right such they encourage it some of the benefits what we know what we did was our claims knows original set before we did it by looking at examples what people to not sweat landfall not so I'm not you know just what I learned is being not to speak out shows between graduation before I became involved in organizing your life took those lessons and kind of find them seeing here is not the case is now in the northeast for the gun not training with the difficulty thinking invented the whole thing didn't well technically technology to do it you know they're the people that we met that will when talking about profit jumps and tricks you know great yeah I mean one thing that express scripts not Shaq United's shipbreaking minds to stick it out on the axis yeah it's easy to scrub his business sort of upwards trajectory not does not and it is absolutely amazing deed going from there's different faces another follower type yes we didn't do anything we're we're still working on stuff like I say people upset you can refresh and like that he does now that incident it's absent blues again I guess that's the thing with the loss of mythology around artists that still musters Randy's teaches about almost missed out will always wells lots of mythology it's always not project returns says don't really like to talk about I see that setbacks but things that we didn't follow through and things like that you know %HESITATION school was closed after recess just reassess what you're doing I mean one of the things we've never we've never wanted to be an out of which about with never being done didn't driven it that way so that's what we exhibit this talking possible avoiding being this institution you see it's the same people chasing the money as well I serviced and constantly just servicing Hyundai you see see off to see %HESITATION graduations ceasing to be what we started out the baby coming basically it is a service organization are you paying prices price but you don't know just how we can help you help your help on this front background overruled as much money yeah I mean that should be anymore but you know you just won't get to if you don't actually played smoke or we should it's %HESITATION the expectation more exhausted you don't stay with an organization dress that's gonna bounce an idea not defined as not just practice hello this is that because of the months I just love yes my name you know people I know people and the people that were there that he does things up other went off it was either you know they don't exceed state notwithstanding all could be directs this institution what's happened in public doesn't interest me inside the possibility that he twice as much as I do now miton trust me but you know how isn't good enough to want to make me go out and do that now you know and it's not because it's easy to stay where we are sitting not to use it because you know it was a huge amount of responsibility what we do on the very front child and I guess basically between bit fragile moment special counsel businesses across all the members are just going through such a terrible couple of years and well without wanting to dominate conversation instead of talk about I'm going to one of the things is that you might not think it to look after this good job good I'm glad to send you sound that actually you know dog we're very on child yeah it's kind of the thing you know when you're talking to clubs and things this is not the initiative on Cecil to institutional site that we have it's questioned all the time but one thing is like you're not actually come this terrible terrible things happen to the world of Luscombe yes actually my stupid that pretty quickly binding and does not without help from the people in the singing of the action without massive training measures to many things I mean I'm also not sustainable because actually yes because it's so flexible about saying what we we have gone through changes manage those changes as an organization I would say pretty well yes I'm showing accountability and then always I mean some of those changes it's about history changed from non venue based more value based way of a missile is being suspect is said to think well also conditions all the organization you know it's always been a mixture of choosing what we think is best what you what we think is best artistically mixed with some you know there's some properties and about you know where we are what we can do what we do have to because you have to base that recycles yes never not trust fund kids don't have that privilege use where it is very popular today about what we do you know I mean so some of those research taken hostage and forced by external circumstances again I'll see the last couple of years it's been the biggest of external circumstance content it myself which is also the kind of I'm not going to have to move my venue which was always going top wondering about two years guaranteed I mean I'm hoping that for decades it wasn't the best times of my speaker I'm not it was coming up more expensive and when you get you paid a big shots more than your open you realize how much you're paying service subspace so how do we scale down a bit of a base constitutes and size yeah that's practical side of it we need to actually see the town's got a bit because you know we've we as in the country of the world is never really recovered from top out of financial crash is now in years ago next month that we still stand still since then the amount of data was being brought up as a result of pandemic is scary the one that we repaid within our lifetimes there's not much there the magic from the guys coming and getting this moment it intends responding to the future we have to sort of take a mixed use of the choice again choice on external circumstances you know comes out today guessing the small manageable it's only been I am impressed on the see more of the last two years how much we need to survive on what we've got and make it more manageable size %HESITATION dot will give all minds for the new space is going to be still begin the spicy hot well the last month is now off their space needs to engage in the process of hiring yeah I've missed twice as big as the gallery Hans Hans two thousand five to two thousand eleven ways king's behind central station Newcastle where the new times degree in in that you know so much bigger and cheaper this thing about this new space this streamlining is aware that the fact that we won't be we're not servicing this building again it kind of opens up a whole new range of opportunities and an interesting right somebody's going back to the early days of greatness well so we could be more more reactive to taking up the empty spaces again during cop shows you know with it correctly now we just call it pop up shows come the pre gallery days we have a long list a different kind of flexibility because it's it it's opening up different kinds of changes working artists as well as your reservation but also we can re examine it can look at the changing role of the calories in the colors she teams up with the changing role within the community of artists and that we have talked about what becoming even more advantages knocks that sense of the that would not just this I could tell that one very much talk to these picket communities as these holdings connected communities beyond the is where the autistic community as well yeah research the choices of things that we were considering anyway more recent events jolted us into rethinking things I mean I've gone on about how we know institution we were becoming there's danger lastly you blink and sometimes watch some of the things you say enough to do happened you know nothing else is anything but then when in the midst of the lockdown balls going into work I'm looking at these big speech was not big by some people's standards we are quite big M. two gallery spaces and %HESITATION we couldn't do anything and that the relocation came into being on such as the logic let's not try to replicate this space also point to make it really is like this is always a sort of like questioning be pressuring yourself from yourself yes actually well next need to replicate what we did before not she does not use babies it's a chance to such decent difference not something not swapped again not entirely unique but also do brunch revise history but also resisting up thing about CBOE you've done this what she needs to do the same again make it bigger so who better to change I'm not really convinced on which the change that has been in the world I mean call me cynical but see this kind of idea of incremental growth and everything is not slay is actually incompatible the idea of staying ability with the talking the most obvious environmental what's up the hostages some might there's always something I know jump high jump high jump high and it's just not in terms of what resources it's conceiving whether it's actually your emotional resources you know chance yet you got out you know whether she's a physical results intense just like what we're doing to the comments section not just looking about what you what you want from life from night watch what's next thing to do because that's what we're going through this really quick for me is the world's first commercial accounts from feedback has been the subject of the processing the life work balance you know what we what we are what we're not going to be one to what we want the organization to be as well as changed all my thinking anyway you have to think about what you will say in the time this last not sounds great mobile it you have been there read read sensitive medical you know well you can think about you being back in about twenty five years cannot well it's not possible to cut its but yeah my doctor five more years left on this S. walk right well to do and I'm not gonna be retiring in and this is kind of what we'll do what you want in the next ten years twenty years I thought well is actually not not site already excluded myself from going off to another job they're also gonna say smaller than anyone thank you let me push it to mount you're welcome think about this now broadcast notes the name they say they're getting in the core of the yeah every and you know so what you what do you want people that we kind of like things also it's not really quite cheap site we with the solution something called the dressing what we sought to be see if problem is minor means a case I think now that everything's fine let's not talk about I'm done talking about what exists now I mean I still think there's still room for a different kind of voice yeah I could expand on that by really reluctant to talk about she said pointing fingers under what they got wrong well I mean it's just that that's just different kinds of challenges now this always comes the challenges with that twenty five years ago maybe not there anymore these different kinds of challenges that this still extricate to const if you like well that might just be different ones the ones they were attacked and you know people welcomes quite things that wasn't there long because you know people see what about getting that you call this success nine I will success is always kind of wired the expenses someone else because all admitted resources to go around we have some parts of those resources not so much of the people that you know I knew some of this was a basket with people saying what I could do that without such results the challenge to Wilson sorry are we doing that it's not the best because again not right but sort of talk that gets right it does yes Sir everyone I'm not seasons yeah on the night doing best the best best it's the best you end up talking to the press release talk you know and I don't think that's useful I think actually in a condo this is the best is actually in the basket I mean I hate among white I hate not compressed to sides of things yeah it's naive to think that would knock knock competing you pine for funding you're competing someone gets it someone doesn't and it's not simplest best person walks in memory is just not true of life and again asked me piss me off the record hello Mister people think holes in accurate honest people that think you know a more deserving I spent lots of time helping you know again it's not public this is what we spend a lot time hoping to strike operations not just officers showed great we can do about that put all your money on that number eight sometimes these things I mean you have to you have to be above the center level yes it's not just like a random but you know is that about on that we get it will help what level of blow up doll on stays is just just trying to be aware that the actually does a different way of doing things to the way you did them in a couple years ago it's not just occasioned by massive global brands like pandemics also actually down to more mundane things in fact the same exactly I think requirements establishment right I got trouble thought you too would not apply in certain areas in the northeast because I'm too outspoken about certain things that she does not apply to it once the decision making problems something more reaction to revise and I'm gonna leave it at that asking this is let's not look at it on Monday night but you know it's kinda well watching around my own %HESITATION without similar same not without some respects we wouldn't you know we are not council yeah but this is not a validating you know as a validation engineer from eagle point you wouldn't happen if people didn't look at the work that was produced in sight well some of the least is good how big he supposes farms our office is without box thanks doctor you never know resources other than energy energy of office hell's artist will douse it took out and it's still %HESITATION is heavy dependence on artists in the sense that spec also you work with it's not that co productions you know what side of the sensations when the creatures and the co productions but without so much about the actual web just happens when the people are just turning up and doing work without dots then we wouldn't have a reputation which is positive reputation all side but not the big public gallery it's not a bad not for all of the old uses me looking at that you know how we do stuff to do things in a very public in the early days you know them about small space is not marketing manager notification officer in back to times we do have groups of people coming through one thing positive things not reinstate said as we look at our next concert of expending Selectric March community and council as receptive to that sort of way this will be hot that's going to actually allow to meet people but yeah I mean also so awesome main audience good things are happening come to blows through artists yet wanting to but with this other than not sometimes we do I don't just mean not that people may not someone going away yeah look right I think that's the real dedication for us is that we help stocks reputations are understood to be honest it's an international reputation because of the profit is not without honor I mean we do house relatively large international reputation I mean this website just because they do cover the areas so time given I mean when we cited well they were just entering a new phase now I think I'm most obvious and when we sit around at the gallery phase if you live in two thousand five the full box yeah we invited artists to work with this and so there's also still working with this seventeen years later and so the office will also work with any projects and got some relationships going back twenty years mall synopsis other office near completion you gotta keep open so what we did approach this is a small cohort of international artists when we open the gallery let me pop up program also going on doing stuff outside of the gallery I mean this is also do not bend to thousand six of media outlets out there remains a not for profit organizations mean com make money I mean money up thank I. straight into I mean it's basically self what comes in goes out so who is taking off as people call had rounds of being not for profit levels and metrics commercial point is connection arms and money to run their organization was not strong but many still somewhere send me physically been doing much of the last two years and since then we have been doing online still working if you price and ropes across the square you know what you actually sign anything on dolls I mean it's good so the promotion for them and because it also houses well just because the office is quite expensive thing to do this is an international activity has created other kinds of opportunities for artists okay not just for artists that we've shown specific opportunities beyond even next to the chick in career change opportunity since it and that's a great thing for us to see happening I mean we're looking a little bit I mean happened tools reading much about because of twenty five years this option G. license it's not just on the best between starting imminently Ole miss out to John Ritter will stop people tend to generate we've been doing the pandemic against Jaitley said of like unity trolls are similar archive six days a year in more recent stuff picking stuff out making sure things are archived as can be on a website we can be doing stupid stuff on you know social media things are not looking at all the stories to try and save some of what we've been talking about will be expanded upon in nice and there's also a story %HESITATION everything that was in the past okay your short videos major processors and things I'm not certain that this man can be I'm gonna brought a hundred fifty or even not near to impossible the region daisy Boston shows the public we have been busy yeah understood nice is the recent official %HESITATION so too and what written document talking may sound a bit driver Transamerica it's not just the string is actually the history is very person nothing to to die they just need to find a man going about his office like well is this well not trying to draw that sounds it's not just not okay here's our archive is nice pictures exhibition did seventeen years ago it's M. O. Y. what was that if they were from outside Newcastle what they find you guys trying to us normal will sit by the way here things are but this is still very relevant today in a may reactivate what contextualizing not externalizing it both the benefit locals orients and I'm hoping for the peak is about sex going about so I did not well thanks it was it's another gallery on the next prompt got as well this is our story yeah and I'm not make qualitative judgements but with the battle with brokers say west anyone and I'm trying to say that better than anyone actually it's a different story yeah hi Sir different story this is John transplants on the how to get it beyond %HESITATION here's a press release for a leg to show us your bill not so silent and drawer out things crossed by time out to get the actual birthday this not about some physical events and I discussed these are not less camels which come together to do that you can have the benefit seeing me in person rumble age or something like that stage should have built a stage I'm not just talking for months so she's context I think not I think it's still questions based on about the same way we could what we did send certain things in the day yes looking back is also complete contempt contacts because right right yeah me chomping stands together what we're talking about those debates have gone away when you start out you can just like pushing pushing pushing pushing towards his back to world what sense basically maybe over dramatic did you ever come well that moment did you know certain things about that certain things certain things we probably contributes to grazing actually negative things for us now yeah yeah maybe drops calling again back to the very beginning we know we dropped going south sauce that one point when we first got the offer of more regular funding well now it's got so it was said it was it was a negative yeah a line of be professional in which is really a whole lot problematic surround that this happened today you're not straight you know then it'll sauces that straight around the stock should actually what Sydney along Hyundai can just mean showing your banks on the other hand you know your institutional constituting so lost actually sort of are you really any like Sam not gonna stop by I mean another thing Appleton's Constanten international presence not in the office to better route to adopt is primarily not even about taking calls and not such good routes to get yourself somewhere five days and showcase not just where to lots of people since the show was I think I see smoke and in New York right right yes I call you like guys Jakub might remember everything the things that they're not you mean outside about in multiple places but the space is two blocks but again it's all help to make contacts learn about United what with in those yeah she may draw some blood loss senses yeah we went on smallest on the galleries all senses next year based things again also why this so if you want to call it a group that she's got something to make those connections then right posted at the office yeah that's maybe more motivating kind of things do you need special stuff not just make this connection is great if you can make some money as well not least just the cycle not also what happened when we moved into our now last time good good cop comic what he's calling it now that almost ten years to the day old several twenty eleven to mid September twenty twenty moment moved out mission house right in the centre Newcastle is big Stockard at the time but with various points at one point I'll see those two other buildings within the same block tops you bridge agrees graces insult not one point one is the H. three hundred phones and other %HESITATION charitable organizations and that means much total commitment about you know sort of being a one of the ways Gostkowski's relevance unix also means connecting different communities points you got you have is not building models it was actually sent to the actual mix was not she not supported financially by anyone individual things like going to school to those of the organizations both arts and non arts organizations received the different cuts funding actually what we had actually we were neighbors yes we went together Mr will witness and these people but you know good bit more contract I'm just giving up says knocking on someone's door guideline do you want to do this yeah but what we did so when we talk I'm not buildings got the most basic level is that Chris and I also two three directors well now you say police initially but then you know con came to the mall hands off there's still so it's some kind of to the directions to the building beyond the mundane things that make sure you'll find it shocking things that I will say to me not that guy right jumble combines because an organization of some inventions machine in house he said that our older screen six point out he's involved is now working Seinfeld you know we reset we re well at that setting the gallery up now every guy he says we've got mix instead of these toll building will have either a nine floors in matching that now go different smaller sites around case at town center but I'm still a base serving as part of that system the store once you get this moving into focus becomes spread horizontally rather than vertically now I just as importantly there's not enough space because it was sort of time to walk track did you know I mean %HESITATION this is sort of an umbrella organization some people gone their own ways how to you can wait we try to stay in the house which really wasn't happening you notice more sets and guys have let's say a relate actually help him out on the road from where we were yes but then actually in some ways very different contexts so I mean we'll see how that pans out and sensible different things that will be that I say certainly expensive also found that I mean we all of this %HESITATION directs locus working unpaid basis for not not going be says it cut somebody's neck collars that we do sauce fresh environment program we do do that with offices that and again not at the office of each of the gallery there's some junk out of whatever project is we do all that kind of stuff number involved in running studios often moved lobbies cut boring mundane steps taken a number of stations a local woman dance stuff that actually is his pasta this is why sports thing we don't make a big song and dance about that yeah you start making big sometimes not realize when we have to meet you thanks how to more safety nets but I realized that people will realize can you others people didn't ask people didn't know about what was happening there some people again time for more late night conversations some people chose big role what was happening no not really it's not my circus you're not really interested in supporting artists despite it may be being that Joan yeah is it late but you know so why don't you know it looks about white to coach in the northeastern United well why did all three sessions what you got yeah I think certain people are just happy that's just an example of something wrong naturally the college she all she talked to she wore different unstuck thanks not make sense so despite beating around the bush not saying right now they should be yeah I miss the all different year groups but the conditions they should be more lexicon of the should be ball galleries is that you say and then I got out so it's about money not my fault not that great I should take that much money to be where I am well we will address the reports for the speaker to be thought somewhere else but that wasn't really well I mean I'll come on my mobile this Nixon said that means you can think of the city council thank blindly tried their best opus I would say what and because it already has consented remembering what was happening anyway I think it's not priority you know in the end the dice there were people that were meant to be used the people that lost their businesses because without meaning I was an inclusion such sports as much money into that since his neck item also union number what's that well my experience I have no problem further we have to be docked up there seems always to Dale and it was gonna happen one that mean a lot longer than we thought we were going to ask you so you're going to gas comes not with that is the building unless it's not it's actually that's real doubles more group will be people in the city including thank among Miami does every workable remember that we're going to shut down we have a site that will not someone's gonna resign business vice city cheats you get this long time dream ball that because I really want to I'm not interested in playing the game really in some ways it was years ago now he's got to you know if you look at what my house I'm TV's back in again passes Susman thank god because people make so we're at war right I checked your site not right when they say the new shopping on saying this is going to bring you know access city or what this cultural organization going night we bring next mountains the city people make things up not just the truth of it having said that will explain how to nominate me we've had a million pounds okay one day a lot of time not every single counterparts been spent within Newcastle I mean I thank my god you know that things are not is it what hasn't been retained in unison now about S. baby yes I but I still live in the house I'm left the city in protest we went very supportive right now I read a kite but I mean over time yeah and those of the old timey I took was not moment it came up with the people there so yes some people stay some people gone I bristle when I see sort of talking accounts not supporting market based things I've done I think that's the case well it's not my experience controversial subjects on that okay wildly denied by anyone the council the signet segments to help try and help you but you just send down vital options anyway yeah I think people remember certain sayings and we know what happens whatever they say that it's all been incredibly insightful I feel very lucky because I feel like this is being the moments where you both needed to see Brady reflects and get stuff off your chest so even just a little bit even if you could say everything you wanted to say but you've been guard is really gone and said yeah yeah I just really appreciate that you intend on searches every question I think I had as well J. either he has maybe any messages of hope she have any hope for the future of the arts and this that there will be some you know because coming from northern art ends I feel the pain of the arts community and the space above very arm's reach as well and people just have to get on a day in themselves use about experience and since its full year you're the pandemic that's my exceptional new stuff that people been left with let's go to the wrangling is already that says black people have been left in limbo yeah this afternoon but before you actually got to under yeah that's right which I mean I think it's difficult I mean it's gonna get us now when J. C. digital because in one way that we all love to sell my resilient and will find the right route you know when I say you got cut down for a bit let down the line string again with people like still not how bout that you know I'm wary of using the wiper is an object yeah %HESITATION narrative because oxalate it's also I feel I don't once rushing courage discipline exactly it %HESITATION because it's like Hey you should or even hold the %HESITATION wins or not students anyway oxalates talking itself now getting near cards or if you should be getting under the hound I will survive I don't have an ounce of possible to think where we are at the moment we society are the main things really impossible nothing is a bit of a rush to go down since I really don't you know I don't think really quite comprehend what's happened in the last two years nothing mean about what we'll see is about things that when you think you can pay the rent on Alton but it's also you know now I don't have that much of spiritual side but I think we've been through massively traumatic experience is traumatic about how we actually go forward and signed its government's descent it says that it's not safe for us and you know it's still long so Tyler thing to always sort of been through set next and a certain part of rebuilding and maintained over the last couple years but also trying to do things differently you know nothing I've been doing a little reading around this you know I think when I look to the pandemic look you know at this locale there's a lot of fights that in people resume writing that was so grim in so many ways couple spots take now because this is kind of going on yeah it's a lot of initiative builds up angst and so too I'm good things I'm not sure I don't know that we get this done and I come across that very dark here there's still a lot of actions to be taken if you're not gonna come out this data we went to the dangerous actually west nothing missing nothing all governments almost sort of contempt near all actually doing the right thing what you think I think I'm not saying the same thing which was but you know it's kind of like well well that's just about to start the choices remains lots of directions being given I think it's still quite low choices to be made about what she already how differently do do things how much we support sticking prostrate that trying to scramble by the law the biggest challenge in essence second mobile radio thing to society it's not just about %HESITATION will start up again sorry contracts last two years this is a whole different way of doing it all right and all the other things that happened with highlighted the not just Hockney at last year's use sitting around the table new residents yeah I got the biggest it look bigger debate stopped out students up to where we might stand in not you know we might represent you should strive represent we've always looked at it we can look at it as well great transsexuals different kinds of questions about their representation taken place recently in Glasgow is our reach not intense yeah what's being raised about what we can do is to be but you know still having some I think we've always felt that responsibility that's required to be jacks reported snag with possible dressing problem not solving the problems I think is not spontaneous I really as a bit of pressure sometimes try to make out the city saying not overnight well do ABC that we've dealt with us again it's an ongoing thing it's not set it up to people I solve problems the world because I was but you know it's that sort of taking responsibility we have a responsibility to be part of the process the moving forward so it just means doing things differently our typical it also thinking on that if I'm sounding a bit sort of not really sitting right next to it because I'm not trying to preempt how about my S. it's up to still very much work in progress but cannot you regional question there's responsibility on the sole individually collectively organizing institutional about trying to make things work in a doctor's it's not a foregone conclusion that will blast will stopping around plus the city still sort of come out of this terrible thing that's happened I feel like each month and double I'm optimistic I'm optimistic things aka struggle sometimes I mean things he also struggled without those struggling all times you know I recently yes I do actually despite how might come across remains optimistic otherwise I would get up and do something else United naturally you know this aside from the obvious and less competition and how to fight very hard out sheets you keep going and I've been working on we have been working with people I say we've lost if you were a whole life yeah to the extortionate but we'll save actually helps the artists and non artists now actually keep that business is going during this time so we still kind of dealing with keeping Garrett but yeah you know being open we need to change still making advocating a space to doing things in a different way because there's plenty of people with the same person sent consultations and not necessarily I mean that's always that's always been the case in Walmart they sent things imposed on you you have a choice the space is going to making about how you were dressed not really about you can take the easy route you can take box just put your head down money get on with life or you can challenge things you know and if you don't sex you can challenge inspired by director John things Weidenbach said stuff but you know also you can US just challenging just by doing stuff in a certain way again I'm trying not so just let me jump in the second lead by example I was reading pompous gone say that but just do stuff do you step inside this is good the choice got some up now join you later interest in trying to affect change or whether it's just a formative going into the art world there's lots of people there really informative changing I'm very safety that I think there's a lot of lip service going on the slope to consume I think the real thing that just needs to see or is this just this integrity I think we've got hacked we've got another the most liberal what people do and it's just going to see that actually come into play evil keep reading taking taking control of their own lives to take control of the situation take control of the development of this whatever you call it this ought to come cheap taking control of what's happening in the real integrity that's what's needed and what's what's happening when it's been more of a personal as I said well actually it's a about a negative point here but we also see we've got government is actually interfering more more Anne is less and less arms length yeah and there's a good night I'm not saying I'm doing it you know because less and less dependence %HESITATION condemning hasn't Beijing not help without yeah seeing all this last of the incentives contract to challenge this sort of interference and again subsumed under whether it's the same much talking and acting free not specific so much intense manhunts lake during this time the Sims talk or what did you do especially in the first locked down you know what you've got to talk with you watching you know watching so what does that you know all these people his script rices or whether you're just looking at pictures on the wall yeah yeah yeah that's L. my skill I got soul mates beginning to sort of be it was second also at a loss in the beginning and I think you did you need to keep saying not right now but we've got government which is not something crossed you still saying all subjects and not to send you also has a great capacity and also organize actions of responsibility in fact social change but I it being fake social worker yeah Mr job someone else will work with people that know what they're doing and meaningful life licensing for white tank do you tend to like tickets going outside is not going to change this not missing the conscious thing common look outside yourself look outside your immediate mind set which is coming challenging but it's challenging especially challenging when we've all been on the defensive thank you to your heart's Bible but this still held that's even I still believe I still believe in our yeah some really important messages I think that we need to reinforce I can't thank you enough both of you for all your time today Chris kitschy point people to words where they can find out more by the end the websites and that kind of thing we we we have to go to our website U. K. you'll find all sorts of things were videos of shares as well as exchange that we commissioned on our site to some options we have social media you can see with the kids Facebook the old people like us but we do need to do our goal yes sign galleries and galleries actual social Instagram twitch time with the kids you know coming soon noun okay even after baby at non white noise well they can just wishing you every best wish for what's to come in the coming year I really hope I can get to get salads and a few months and be busy Instagram SS and I mess I really miss fan I miss commercial union high so I spent a lot of time in our past and I miss it desperately so I just ready I'm so appreciative of both he taking so much time to talk to me sure thank you very much thank you