Audiovisual Cultures episode 34 – Bohemian Rhapsody, Queen and Freddie Mercury (reissue)

Show notes

In time for the platinum jubilee, enjoy this remastered reissue of lost episode 34 in which film doctors Paula Blair and Andrew Shail talk about the Queen and Freddie Mercury biopic from 2018 (BBFC cert. 12A). We get into the film’s troubled production context, Andrew’s love of the band’s music and its significance in film culture, and we touch on the depiction of Mercury’s sexuality, persona and AIDS, the amalgamated supporting characters, the narrative structure and much more. Enjoy and please give this episode a good rating and share with a friend!

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.

Original episode with auto-captions

Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.

New intro recorded with Zencastr on 15 April 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings on Patreon.

Automated Transcript

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hello I’m cold up there and you’re listening to the audio facial cultures the podcast that explores lots of different areas and found the arts and media I’ve got a cheekily time to re issue for you today the last of our lost episodes is number thirty four after fresh showed if the screening chats with Dr Andrew she’ll way back in twenty eighteen I thank the Ximen wraps today in the Freddie Mercury and queen biopic west a troubled production history the timing of this re release it’s a bit tongue in cheek and won’t matter told if you’re playing this at any other point in the future but this falls in the wake of Queen Elizabeth the second’s platinum jubilee I’m not trying to be political hello it’s no secret that I wouldn’t mind having a go at some sort of children %HESITATION Chris say on these islands but here we are it seems like as good a week is Anne T. celebrates a British institution for me I choose not to be bisexual son of Parsi Indian parents whose four octave range singing voice and flamboyant stage persona made him perhaps the greatest rock performer of all time but that’s just me before catching up with four years younger Poland and Andre a massive thank you to our champion patrons over it PhD on dot com forward slash AP cultures he enjoyed lots of extra goodies and return for their support I really appreciate Charlotte’s for AV cultures part on socials as well especially if they’ve got a confidence boost her and store I can always use those for example at the suit one hundred and twelve gas John badger reached out on Twitter but his guest experience saying holy cari if I didn’t know me I think I was mildly intelligence your editing skills are on point I couldn’t be more pleased thank you you’re very welcome John ideal for quality service I may not be able to pay myself for my guests but quality phone conversation are guaranteed if you’re interested in being part of the show as a guest to worse to have your feet background alright head over to the contacts and cancels features that audio visual cultures dot com for night the show must go on so let’s go stone cold crazy and write the wild winds with this discussion of Bahamian Rhapsody swearing this button mainly including from the film or things to be a mercury is known to have Sadam performed we also discussed the film’s imagining of mercury sexuality and its diagnosis and of course we spend a lot of time on the music and depictions of the performances in the film J. enjoy and I cried and sometimes picking up do you want %HESITATION I don’t because I think it’s been a thing for both we yes it’s my choice yes we can the Bahamian up city which once cinematically amazing as well as having for me that is fiction you can always it’s going to one six I still love the cinema the woman next to me holding service because they were when it was one of those so much for this story that Friday sequence is made you want to get up and dance so I didn’t remember you know it was great we made a rather silly mistake of going well it’ll be at three thirty H. Sunday off the main screen tell me no need to book ahead seven point eight six seven seven this comes doing really well this room with a fantastic soundtrack of course but also from six AM to you can see queen in the studio recording their first album really experimental stereo and circles in order to show that that being really telling the sun did you know what to do of course the same standard effects have to be replicated in my answer there was all this flipping the sound from the because that’s my my brain works these days in the opening credits when I saw Bryan singer’s name he’s probably the obvious choice but also he’s just a name at the minute because he’s one of the many people he said here’s one of those but I don’t really know the details a good few people I have been completely switch yeah for this goes to the graphic pretty much three yeah this customer doing just inserting himself in the Freddie Mac for this he was in almost every show he was physically ready from the first one we see and he’s getting ready to go out and listen to a little because of the way up to the very long climactic scene live right everyone gets twenty real time I think it was even that’s why he makes the words differently in the version of a thing that you did and they did not rami Malek the same slightly different ways that was very did they do that thing with by that point according to what I have been getting ready for so many times yeah given the switchboard the pharmacist is very easy to she gin and tonics one but to do it and it was the thing about somebody like Freddie Mercury so treating he was this one of I think it may take a couple I think for quite awhile there were rumors that one might have taken on the role of Freddie Mercury great so I think it took them a long time to find Freddie it’s important when you’re doing a this is what these real people bring lots of with the message John deacon rule really that’s fine walking across the really well done cinematographic Freddie’s head injuries reduce stress and these extra Charlotte reviews he’s on stage some of the show’s kind of extreme close up which you can only do by completely computer generated in focus yeah there is going on with having it going the instruments almost twenty three that’s our bus where underneath it went on before the storm runs right up said Brian may’s guitar I think it is control in the next couple of shots coming out I come like a drunk looking down on them and it was what I’m submitting it was a it was different from we will rock you stem from it was thanks to so many of them they had so many out there so many there was one glaring omission for me and then I realize they’re saving it the stock may know I understanding it of course there has also the show must go on that was one of the tracks on that album I think it’s awesome response he was and of course someone says the show must go on so even though that was not the clean up of banks and stuff in the last few months they did the eight story having him realize he’s got it and then having the crisis these going to just make music thank for this and it’s happening fast and this time he knows his time is limited so it’s very we need to have come and find me when it’s ready and realize I can dance strong this was a bit of a brave posing and as the walking off stage of the live in concert in nineteen when he lived for six and a beta six years contains these and I just became old enough to go and see I’ve always loved playing music by the time I was really aware I didn’t think anything about and I dare say going nine the huge presence of queens in mine came with me was my older brother maybe it was just yeah I’m from the south going okay so we know about this green which is eighty three known about more nineteen seventies going in the nineteen eighties at the end of it we it’s very few hits from that album they did in the early nineteen eighties and the queen yeah Highlander the queen does movie soundtracks there’s so many different queens and queen I love the jokes about finding love with my account please there was always conflict what to do with businesses while you can have a single which is over six minutes long which is perhaps how the problem I’m having my as expected of a DM all right his name okay so while yeah okay sorry this reminds the wings well doing this we want songs that kids are going to be had a specific statement that maybe not seasonal it’s going to be the and then some you know I would become a song somebody’s six German children many references fine where we needed to see if on the way like a rock the way that these relationships whether whether it’s not really ready to do another in the long term he was there was a new version with somebody I didn’t get he wants it to be perfect and then moves on to situation where they just good friends by six having this is going from strength knowing it’s not someone who comes in you know he says merry I think this is Friday afternoon for a while but you yeah she dismissed that’s never any acting yeah he seems Neil yeah I think this guy told me it was his minders manager every day nothing about it I do you know if any of us I don’t know about that I didn’t know anything about it so anyway the character he’s quite an emotionally manipulative controlling relationship the calling of the city and state almost and take them away from clean every this CBS summer to do so it seems like he thinks on his face I’m not sure I’ve taken that up right it seems like he gets wind of this offer he gives it to the manager John rates and says it should come from here so it’s all John ready for anything sorry is it could go either way and his idea returns are not some of it gets really hurt that they’re trying to break away from the and so but then it ends up later on doing it because this guy Paul is obviously one trying to siphon away from history France %HESITATION okay because yeah one of the best number I was really just an instance of an the case was over it was welcome to the forty in some in some of the albums yeah this is going to cost was this is somebody gives me an extra seven when the the recording an album right it wasn’t a modern thing that happened when I was three different events and six okay yeah re release do you have a sense the firm says this is Anthony from breaking get changing the dressing up okay London then you wouldn’t have thought that you she had a mistake three from the also this is the having this yeah we get you can get around it by just not having sex in fact with NATO’s so there’s no signs of heroin use or anything like cocaine use their hands heavy drug use going on get rid I think it he’s been led into this it’s almost like he’s call has wanted all the things in the failed the state becomes his best you know he’s a puppet master name Freddy gets Weissman merry comes once the reality it must have been but it’s just %HESITATION thing of all land when Freddie gets my stamp click on the one night stand or any Germany when merry called for five minutes from England fires on the spot like it’s sort of a seven everyone seeing again there’s always a knowledge base of things are you know you’ve gone wrong that’s when all the freaks come but that’s all taxes and I’m not the case Intel type thing you know he gets his money for doing all the media and by Friday my has anybody you don’t know to what extent anything straight actually station so maybe it’s a moment fading sorry for Friday that things happen it’s hard to know what the trees and hippos now could save this film which was finally ready we in a sense he was a ticket to the final when it came to do yeah yeah there you have it you’ve been taken apart just torn off to one side has been very Katie being quite confirmed with my family often really split yeah keep seeming to think that she needs it belongs to him yeah because the noise makes on this day we also have to point out that the way the film seems to make it ideal for families to get back together after Freddie has this crisis in Germany while buttons and pull in the license he’s in a relationship and also realizing the second going from nixes really wants to get nineteen point zero twenty one respond to the small people are comedy quartet whenever they recorded together since a breeding whenever there’s conflict one just needs to make it yeah everything’s fine so this one is complete another one bites the dust it’s just about getting anyone to do any work getting a physical fight and then I think it’s off screen it’s just John deacon yeah right yeah and I go three great wait wait wait a minute so there were these moments always gonna go wrong is going to come back together because their rooms didn’t even we would like to do and then of course when we get back together shortly before live eight and almost certainly didn’t happen because they messed it up together so you thank %HESITATION occasion either her sure more than a week Anthony it’s a working again a moment and I’m sorry the comedy of the film in dramas like this is really essential to have this moments here and there and a few years yeah it works very well and it’s very tightly times and everything the Christ really with it because it was great seeing it with I meant for the people who were clearly how can a day on not only does one is sure one moment of the woman next to me said during the summer end of it when they were recorded along to the on from the house and I was trying to persuade the executive of the MI paste by minus to release but he knows these online and I was and it wasn’t what it was before do this all right now but it’s going to be new yeah pretty plays a bit of opera it’s going to be a musical theater it’s going to be fantastic and he goes no one listens to all and the woman next to me when I heard from a seventy mistake you’re talking to the screen the screen is if there’s no one else yeah but yeah it was it was amazing the moment it was raining we watched it at home well I think I got really excited and saying things are going so I and we’re gonna be out of this building in about three minutes thank you well I am saying that we shades D. another proper operating as well a bit later when we got time to make some stuff I think is I think we’re going to need to get some details that we aren’t able to do at the moment one question for you %HESITATION did you cry I welled up a fair few times I have to say me too the jets that’s the kind of film where I’d wanna fill me with a disabled people see how much they are always the weather and I want to see when and where they only have get a free opening credits the twentieth century fox yes I did a special version of the twenty three folks from with cinemascope extension which was a rock version %HESITATION with lead guitarist Rafiq Bhatia I’d like to know thank you it wouldn’t surprise me Brian made today I think so I think this is why we need to go except from if you’re using the number for your records he was a British citizen from birth probably something to do with the fact that his father was he worked at the British colonial office in Zanzibar also that he was he was a member of several other bands before he introduced himself to smile that’s one of those ways in which they’re simplifying reforms of Larry you rex I just realized that I completely missed the Kenny Everett at the mouth I was in I didn’t realize that but I was a kid so slow why here even talking to the media on your part because I was like this is familiar I think that this is supposed to be somebody who I know come look at who it is but yeah it’s can well and the apparently that was a big part of the union reps to getting after it was but they were already made is there a quite flamboyant and that it was ever who first put that someone intent on national radio station on capitol Monday in the capital radio itself haven’t actually accepted the song ever it just pretended to accidentally play it John McCain ever played the some thirty six times in one day I thought there was something to do with it being a baby science to something else that’s the way that you tend to get someone to get airplay that doesn’t fit with the I could quite possibly spending mostly just reading stuff about thirty minutes server very firmly two three we’ve been reading about mowing get some clarification so interesting actually the production context it does seem to have been quite a dog for a long process yeah seconds with the director because we have both noticed at Baxter Fletcher was in there executive producer credit is often quite a waiting list of executive producers from yeah and this can mean quite a few things by inductively just case it turns out that he got an executive producer credit because he directed something like the last quarter of principal photography and of course started on editing as well did a lot post production director stuff as well after Bryan singer has what seems to be a family crisis yeah because I think I think a remember reasonably things like that but it’s just one of those fleeting things that you read and didn’t really pay much attention to it time and we’re also constantly having production news about films that’s all no it’s going to be coming out for several years yeah that we don’t get a heads up so we set the stuff for some catering and then suddenly there’s a film being released so it seems that this film has been in production one from another well the it’s been being made because this pre production in one form or another since twenty ten and so we’re quite lucky to finally got a film out of the big team of people who were involved in this which included Jim beach repairs in the film police who has played in the film very well by Tom Holland that someone that doesn’t do much actual using his face but I think then it’s just the person who you cost is people who want for express via place those people very well he’s become a real stalwart I think if British film he’s been in so many days and take up also should have been found here is fighting and that part I think it for sure members wasn’t he the real reason he won and prior to the carribean in the second and third seconds ones that’s my first memory of him yeah but yes he’s good at playing those characters that was nice actually to CM as one of the back bone characters and Bahamian upstate it was nice to see him as a guy in his reading here about a research project undertaken in twenty sixteen to understand the appeal behind Freddie mercury’s voice which president for that he definitely had a vocal range of just over three octaves which is quite some right and that he has a fast of a broader than the other thing is that we get from having a scientific explanation of why this guy’s voice was quite amazing okay put the sounds on me we’re in a situation of being really unable to tell with this part of the sounds are it seems to have been placing a layer of forty are from old recordings of Freddie mercury’s voice on top of what we’re getting from Ron Maddox force them certain points where it’s running Malick singing and then certain points where it gets a decidedly different quality of because he’s trying to sound as much like Freddie Mac as possible so the real uncertainty about his voice to getting anyone what of course Dr Barone I have decided to compare the size of our queen collections mine’s quite fragmented though because a fellow friends it’s just a few songs from lots of different albums I thought it was from someone else’s special collection sweet lady one of the lessons and so much of the upper this is the one with the line that’s really killed in the phone right one of them says this you call me sweet like I’m some kind of cheese some of the lyrics to some of the lesser known songs sound weird but it’s not like the lyrics to that mornin songs on tweet it we just got used to these very weird things that you say in a big operatic voice when singing the songs and you do rarely sang the songs particularly doing karaoke other Beltre’s it’s safe you can call them this because a lot of things to get serious I think to try and give things a better border where they basically think it by the film as biopic genre it feels like the wrong term sub genre feels like it doesn’t do it enough justice but the biopic as a mode of storytelling in film is something I find really fascinating the overwhelming narrative and biopics generally tends to be the great and history services but this one central character he’s the hero or anti hero of the thing I think what I really liked about this is that it’s not titled Friday it’s not type of mercury X. title but he may not say I’m not very much Freddie mercury’s songs but it does mean is more about the bonds and they are such a huge feature and so much is made of the bands in the film especially them all referring to each other’s family they find their paper I find their tribe that’s part of the look of the film when someone refers to green is very friendly and Freddie goes then all my family in the early stages not these people are my family and then after you go through a crisis and it goes back and he arranges this reunion with them then he says your my faithful that calls back to the very first meeting I have with people from nine AM Miami Freddie says where the mess but don’t fret and the other members of the band talk about as being a fun night because none of us fat and the people that we are doing this for don’t fret wear a different kind of family so at Kohl’s box that so Friday and sept and say that but he’s part of that discussion they are saying that my hands the films about queen back coming as clean as they could possibly get you off the first trying lots of different ways of doing it and getting it right at some points and not getting it right now points and I suppose that there’s generally fit with the stress of what I’ve seen and I do get the sense that we’ve got lots of moments when we’re getting a fictionalized account which you might be trying to make everyone appeared to be better people than they actually were and it definitely begin the fictionalized accounts which is making it one appeared to be a lot more power I think in the way they speaking yeah the people nevertheless even for the metric that monologue about fruit flies wow I think it is it’s done between two people who are looking at each other yeah definitely come here it’s an extremely heavy rain I mean turn around sell dying poor suffering in taming taming ran looking away from each other and talking quite quietly and intimately away from the other person and they must be made or so parts also Freddie’s clearly not while it also seems to be something of a rule now the you start films in media Raz for a minute or so and then you go back and start to the beginning that’s just how you do it but I suppose it’s not even the media rights because that means in the middle Steinman we’re talking still in the midst right near the edge well it’s like the CODESA and music acts establishing the same addressing the endpoint and then going back and then you can actually at the end our first few moments on this front America waking up in the morning of the live it comes at the cost a couple of times and then that’s it and then suddenly after stadium he’s getting ready to go on stage or anything from hauling waiting I’m just about to go on stage and then reflect back to him working as a baggage handler Heathrow in nineteen seventy until often going to be about getting back up to this moment I serve right from the beginning it’s made clear that yeah you will note that this is going to be a story about someone getting it I’m more sure that we know that you know and we’re gonna get back but first let’s go and do a story about people making music the most fun bits were when the band and playing time to come up with something that’s catchy when they sell a van and pay for a couple of days in a recording studio and I just making stuff up as they go along and the recording the album that’s called queen might even between two actually well it’s got seven seas around it because that’s the seven seas rise I first hit and it’s one that most people haven’t even heard of and it’s very hard not much guitar and that was really enjoyable certain people experimenting insuring how big they were on stereo such that they will actually start to where the tapes out they recording is they’ve been recorded over so many times and they apparently they would know what that this the point would have to stop re recording and recording lies of sound on these types because if you held it up you could see through it and I just love this idea that the recording medium suffers from having some which pertain to it might just start to disintegrate where is the way we record now the recording medium we don’t think of it as something that has material now it sells them quite virtue of this nightmare is burned from the very earliest appointment a recording being really into using stereo which wasn’t new technology in your average person’s home music system hysteria been around in cinema since the shift to white screen star had been normal since four track stereo sound a bit normal since and being that band here basically pine in the music video while I’m running please bring a song which laments the death of radio because of the size of the music the foreign army radio Gaga and being around that was huge on getting audiences to be part of that case they hit those three not stereo music video %HESITATION mornings in part I. gigs and they didn’t even do the music video bet with any sort of pain let’s invent music without having that account of an invention story they just had it so that one of those magical realist moments occurred where the couple of images from the Bahamian up the video just appeared in the background is one of the scenes and I was there you know over the noise that they invented music video on we got a lot of boxes we were talking earlier record number eight the audience participation because I was saying that I haven’t made a trade with me before hi much of their work was involving the audience I remember being at the fourteen or so and being just totally captivated by we were rocky and it’s such a simple notate the thump class you know from from clap read that rest is really important well let’s step four four one three three four the sound is yeah it just hadn’t dawned on me but then maybe that’s because I was too young for crane to fully appreciate crane by the time I was aware of them U. S. hearing queen songs on the radio their songs were on and films on compilation albums I was getting and that would see the occasional video if I was watchin MTV VH one or one of the music channels as a teenager so it that participation but just haven’t really checked with me and tell me anything on the phone today and of course we were rocking it sends me in London and they make the narrative %HESITATION I’m not really fascinating it’s nice to see that story of the pond really laughing and interacting with their audience so much because so many biopics and even fiction films about musicians and bands so much Batman and upping the adoration but not really thinking about it their fans not really having much relations with them but this was so different and even as an audience member saying the Salem he felt like part of it and there was so much participation actually in the audience you people clapping and stomping their fates and speaking to the screen and you know and it was a code violation that I think Sakshi exact %HESITATION and if I’m like that when you’re engaging directly with them and they audiences that are way fast and each other those legendary Mexico around about the different versions that for you would do if the federal yeah you’ve got saying we have we we did we went to this concert well okay while this comes that way did it so that there was twenty five not so we have to remember that back when I was a look at this okay there’s also some very things we say at the end he would of course at some point guard now the going is over but we have to do it in some way so if I simply say well you’re good and he would often say you fuckers it good and then probably like once or twice he just went fuck you as if the guy %HESITATION content do you or do you assume that evidently it no he done that well before it was something to do with it bye bye I’ve got a D. V. D. some of queen during a concert in Montreal in the late seventies he stops awfully close by them hello this is wrong he’s just wearing these tiny shorts it’s not so hot AP just shedding light on for their dynamic case made hi Amy so can addicts is the for you to use the person maybe that’s why I felt some degree of affinity with anything alive is because he would not stay still loves the kids really fidgety anyway I think even relative to other kids at risk but you see that and someone he’s become the superstar and has managed to make something graceful and beautiful and engaging articles mace ments there was a point I think it was with the miracle album in nineteen eighty nine well one of the songs that they did and also just while I’m on this page the cover for the album %HESITATION yeah I really did not want to have to stick together so that between them they have one two three five five online there’s no K. all his views but we seem to have pretty much resigned to just wander into it what details eyes anyway one of songs is the miracle the video for that they didn’t use the bans the use these for kids I think the bond to pay for about the last ten seconds of the song service for kids and they do the entire song as queen in each one of these kids whose London has learned how to do the person that I think so because they want to learn how to do it right to take a look at what he’s learned how to do John deacon has just learned how to stand very still complete and expressive one is not available to take residents about Spain he does with the the customer is not happy for the victory of the problems from testicular across the states back and forth a part of the band said when they finished watching over from happening because a banner that read the music that was being found they said can we do an anti tool for okay this story many of the songs I have not heard of such a long time they did want to three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen if you count the soundtrack to Flash Gordon and of course the kind of magic which is essentially the soundtrack to highland fifteen albums including the made in half an hour when the when the recording and fuss free months of Freddie mercury’s death that’s well over a hundred solution can we name more than twenty of the top of our heads that’s one of the things I suppose about this was that it said you know these fifteen green songs that you know your going to happen now that was the big when he learns he’s got aids they play a little bit of wants to live forever without making any mention at all of them having recorded kind of magic because that seems to be what they were recording when they did a lot of it comes out yeah we must not get the satisfaction figures mixed up with reality it’s easy to see that as a documentary Hey Mike Sanders %HESITATION talking about earlier silences the characterization of everybody like a lot of people’s characters you’re pretty flash story but also you know it’s brilliant to have more representation of north and Irish slash the people onscreen but it would just be lovely if it gets really not all psychopaths and manipulators our system thing or if both are better life class but you’re saying it seems like people I can the characters like camera mocha nations with lots of people I’m looking very yes it seems that a lot of the people who are real life people a link in the process to clean up the mess the several of them you are cleared customs in player will printer as the manager well pretty much ready made it public in November nineteen ninety one and a half days but it was an open secret by that point %HESITATION the cashier full friends are supposed to represent them in life if they refused TV footage as if that was a very yeah another piece of actual TV footage with somebody real quick before breaking away but as for her that she was not to care it could just be representative of that kind of thing happening in celebrity culture the towels for lots of money story nineteen seventy four press conference where he was going to be with them yeah they really pressed the issue with that press conference of their with the journalist he was really trying to press him about his sexuality and of course it’s a much bigger deal than the night but %HESITATION so it feels like it could be very speaking to today because we’re still not a point where it doesn’t matter and people are still forced to commemorate that moment my brain many strange women women well then he simply not panic when amazing well zing that’s quite a while speaking in this room the terrorists a sunfish an ATM sign mid summer murders when he playing Brian main said anybody wanna talk about music M. three times you know I like to listen to the actual recording about yeah that would be fascinating is that screen which is now going wouldn’t it be great if people just hands yeah about what we do yeah you know and also the humor coming through as well because people are pressing Friday by and seeming like he’s been ill and Brian may saying what a cold glass break anybody’s interested and Freddie sank there for members of this bond I’m not the leader of the band there four of us here in your own asking me questions why aren’t you asking anybody else cautions was quite as compact way of getting across quite a lot of points you know and maybe quite skating towards the press but also I think it’s probably reflective of what has happened since then because it feels like it’s gone much worse difficult home magazines you you go in there shall be no you go and get your messages and you just say these things attached to or women’s magazines and stuff and it’s just these snaps private moments of people having a holiday and they were in a bikini on a beach or people snapped in private moments on the night of eight this is trying to be human BN’s and paparazzi aren’t even allowed to have interviews with these people and the quote from information from patient list people divulging yeah selves and their relationships with other people we do really we have collectively as a culture about the private lives of other people so yeah this from was costing about asking this court brutal question of why do we have so much money because people buy their first names that sound a bit I think even the family members living in might have been Friday himself he says you know we belong to them the longer they both but it’s outside of them belongs to the people hello it represents that hadn’t mystic sites on the performance of the hedonism because it does feel like a performance it feels that you know that it’s just the the lavish party that he picks on many has Sydney bakeries but also the really intimate things like they might have copped city has the temple they have their own room and this massive Haris there’s not a huge amount of time spent on any of that but there’s enough shot reverse shots between him Nick Hans you get loads of Kate cops show up and the firm because it’s showing me that there also his farm lane police cannot stop it’s Friday there are few moments when their cats were looking straight at the camera with my cats got like with the crossed in the corner I wanted to just be cursed see that side of him DST pop outside of his life it’s performing side of his life said going to the masochistic gay clubs in Germany side of his life but he had this domestic life that was laughing and yes it was very lavish because laughing at this price that and the faction one of the music videos where it takes the form of this huge %HESITATION he’s not quite the right right right but %HESITATION GS stick policy where everyone’s wearing mosques in huge flamboyant gay and it seems that that’s the kind of stuff you wanted to help you didn’t want didn’t want to have you do wanna do debauchery yeah the flamboyant yeah German things being exciting and people wearing suits uniforms many of us would maybe have a fee is at some point of our lives who will try something because we just want to be different or we wanna CMI that kind of person so you try something you push your limits and then maybe after %HESITATION you go to one this is for me I’m not being true to myself and so you come back again and it seems like that may have been his thing certainly in the film version of Friday that was what happened and it seems like he was groomed and so not by this character poll but seems to have been manufactured items seven people so to see how easy that somebody can be and then the pressures of what Iran and he got somebody Kansi harping on EA and if you’re factoring with your band mates all the time anyway and it’s a perfect storm of things this man to somebody he’s manipulative enough can just quietly chip away chip away chip away convention or something you’re not and it’s inching his Friday his younger shoppers much more assertive your call first tries it on with him when he’s working really disrupts embarking yes ready that piano he’s singing he’s writing music holds your hand and insects I know he Freddie Mercury and Freddie saying you don’t know me at all this is all you see of me is that side of things and then the power relationship with switch to Brian yeah the firm’s leopard the film the director was saying you know how does this sound that you’re used to well that’s where the sound comes from in some places this is how creativity I like seeing creativity represented in films because sometimes it’s creativity with someone just a total genius senators could have just completely thought of this thing back genius thing it mystifies this in some places went to the other in the spectrum where that knowledge I’ve been dreaming upstate the first I’m here is because of the sound bridge over a talk about to cry and then it goes to the cook seems to be going on at this farm so it places that they got these ideas from hearing the cries cokes while they were working from okay this use that sense so there’s a list of people when they created only do is they just listen to their surroundings we just watch their surroundings and then write down what goes on so with that account of creativity we get a lot in the experience I have yeah nothing you just don’t think I remember you just set up on both go on yeah yeah it’s also a really comment it’s a nice light comedy sign bridge missile you know because everybody really laugh the thought saying because it takes you off guard you know because you’re expecting the protest art and then you hear you’re going to hire me it will be mostly noises the in quite a few queen songs even late in their career Brian made as their X. and Roger Taylor upset does not the lead singers are singers one for example is it wants to live forever how often are ex and he wants to live forever a Brian may for the record and gives the best idea serial found at some point this call is squeaky voice that goes on in a lot of queen songs and dance Roger Taney yeah got a quality to it which is not quite as wide ranging as Freddie mercury’s but it’s still a Queenstown but then the film did also go you know sometimes the songs just come out of Freddie stern it really comes up with the first couple of lines of beaming up states I’m just sitting in a gathering of bang bang bang bangs it out and it comes out of him like he’s puking Mike this is involuntary thing that has happened to me is finished if shaking and so that’s the kind of midway point it’s not him getting the sounds from his surroundings and it’s not him having %HESITATION I’m completely in control moment it’s kind of a free between which I think is probably more accurate neither of these extremes I’m trying to find out more about the accuracy of the Munich episode but it’s a very private thing you know and it feels more like an imagining of that period of his life and then you don’t know how much of that has been imposed I think you were saying earlier it feels like the stereotypical with the heteronormative fearful thought culture could pay card to know right away and then we don’t know exactly what parts Bryan singer was involved way we don’t know what Stam dexter Fletcher might have them that would be very different from Bryan singer it is runs from threat to have been there during the production process make for a fascinating account of how films function the taxes that you’re having done sunshine on nice deal he’s directed back musical things before so he would have had that energy especially because that’s based on the Proclaimers songs but it’s a bit like mamma mia and that it’s the characters that are singing the songs so it’s you know it’s not by the bandits by characters and then a burst into the song’s scene %HESITATION their plight to this story so those bank great things the crowd getting involved I imagine that could be him but then Bryan singer has dealt with massive scale stuff and lots of CG I have the stuff is welding the superhero films I think it was important to get in somebody who wasn’t just going to point cameras axes he added this film because it being able to create these virtual cameras that can go anywhere being able to create these subjective Schultz where something happens in the background is clearly just happening in somebody’s had been willing to do that I think it’s quite important to give this the drama which they deserve Sir I think you know surprising twist but nonetheless a good choice actually it is left and which bits of this reflection bits in which yeah the rainy wonderful snow in net maybe it’s an archives yeah accessing it yeah because I mean even just that idea of Willis directors completed most of the film but has not gone a while so what do we date they have to get somebody else and then you’re a director in your really good director in your own rights but it’s not your fans a director for hire Nagy he has to finish it and try and have some sort of continuity with what’s already been done I mean that must be really difficult we hear more about this these days about people getting rotating partway through a project yeah directing from somebody else because I have been with soda in it of course you have a large three seven dexter Fletcher she’s missed rooms finely guessing may yeah seven years it’s a film about green it’s mostly down to about two thirds of its done somebody needs to bring it on home you would quite happily both directed in the start of somebody else and just take an executive producer credit with you just to get the film made all up so let me hear about what’s happening with the Terry Gilliam version of going to help you find I finally being made yeah that’s right but it seems that it has finally been made but then there’s a legal battle happening over whether it can be released and I think at this point this phone’s been waiting in the pipeline for so long however you want he’s standing right getting this thing released do it daily for the sake of the film for the sake of all Americans all these people’s lives that’s the thing it’s hundreds of people’s labor goes into they sayings and whatever’s going on with Bryan singer fees have stuff out and then in the past while this is a film that people need to say because this is a by Friday it’s about playing and try to understand the phone belongs to all of us it’s one of those it’s a story that belongs to all of us and Freddie is still so very low that crowded that we ran alone tells you that because Susan manning I think an older cried and I would strongly suspect a lot of those people who are fans in the day you know that young people and the day you have to work the band and probably saw them life and everything like that woman we spoke to the setting aside years using the Antares the other ninety chat whether at the end and she just loved it so much I mean I think if they put it on straight away again to the south American to after quicken books of his manager to see how I was doing in the states because the relationship between the U. S. fans I’m quite okay from the green that was mentioned in the film queen broke the U. S. quite early but then as the phone went out stopped touring in the US because of the video for I want to make correct very stressed I wouldn’t show that they’re too conservative and it was fascinating that saying my Freddy the man space because he gets the blame of but it wasn’t his idea yeah because it was Roger wasn’t sure it was he wrote the song and it was his idea to have some %HESITATION cross straps you in play women but it all gets in the presses or they’ll get to the end and scarecrows on Friday in the states it’s only been out for three days but it’s done pretty amazingly at estimated fifty million for these first three days that’s quite alright fifty million for a film with a budget of fifty two million on its opening weekend it’s been awesome appetizers the firm has every reason to do amazing cameos well judging by today I would say a while here because of the high on the show for the Tyneside to be thought popped on a Sunday afternoon when did it come out in the case and I think just a few days ago the danger does this count as its opening weekend here at hospital if you need to check I do have with people some critics have been Smith they have may I think there are bets where the added and then sings my dipping back row play other bets where the C. GI helping the cinematography was Belfius for me especially that could go injuries the bus but sewers and into the tour bus in there any ass I’m not window transition in the from one screen I thought you know that would elect Kate maybe fifteen years ago LX nine back it’s fifteen years old stop transition and could have been a lot smoother but then maybe so much of their budget went on reconstructing Wembley because it was an eighty five because it took the lion’s head sets what we just did that because of the front but the rest was computer generated yep and that would have been a lot of the C. T. I. puts it would it not something that bag and not many people on the stage he’ll just to give it a day at work it’s opening weekend was last weekend this is its second weekend in the UK days during storms I would say this is been raining on them to standards to have a center near its maternity have lost touch with night but I was very good friends say when I worked in Tesco years ago she was just the hugest queen and Freddie Mercury fun and the whole world to see George Friday and would follow some of the tribute bands and it always goes in them I’m trying to remember if the tribute act that she’s going to say the tribute act I was trying to remember the name of his flash Harry and the peace to Northern Ireland I know that people like her would be the first in line for this film %HESITATION probably see it multiple times I would say this is one okay a lot of repeat custom this whole podcast episode on the center is in at the %HESITATION what films have you seen more than once at the cinema Ghostbusters twenty sixteen how many times twice and that the right one and three times and some of them because I’ve never seen a no more than once in the cinema it just fails even when they’re amazing I just have the patience to wait yeah I think the second US marshals that’s all I think I saw twice invalid code on which one was up the spy who shagged me without a for sure our website maybe it was a spatial let’s guess is another Mike Myers thank it was the one way faster Graham first name is Gordon powers count on international man of mystery nine ninety seven that was spacious rooms at this price segment in the third one was Austin powers in Goldmember the other two I think I saw a lot of sense and I think also the fact from twice in the cinema there’s probably others have sentencing minimums I seen dawn of the dead and site specific screenings of the film festival twice once was a Halloween screening and consequent shopping center so you’re and shopping malls schools one thing down on that initial come off and it was a mid night thing as for the phone this is two hundred people most of us made up of some thank you and the other time was all planned that alive sign track record in water from homes and nursing well there’s a green connection here because not only is this the band he gas %HESITATION soundtrack albums for film this is a band whose music was it just the music of Freddie mercury’s used as positive Giorgio Marin his soundtrack for metropolis all right I don’t know actually in queens the first quite big fans of a cinema and so called music videos include little snippets yeah references to other films and the music video for radio guy got a bit of help from the top this is the group who when they had the opportunity they’d like to orchestrate some sort of visual track to go with along with the music but he was like I think even maybe sign tracks because this is some fan here hurry interests is a mess and I think I’m becoming more aware of it more interested but certainly maybe sign checks done by pop bands or contemporary banned the use of non classical and rock offers not kind of thing but also there’s the phenomenon of the west and shows and stuff because she’s saying we will rock a yeah I can do something that will reward but looking into because the norm with friends doing maybe some soundtrack seems to be that rather than it being a band comes in and watches an unaccompanied version of fast on composing music yeah it’s the early on in the writing of the film and gets a concept towards hearing comes up with a song and then if %HESITATION trying gets released well before the films come out then the passenger cabin mates online which will include one of those tracks and a bunch of other ones as well so it’s this often quite messy choppy prices so that it’s not quite the same as you get a composer and and you go OK sometimes go put music on this so often it’s about because if you’re gonna use the name of the bond in marketing the best thing to do is to have something by that band specifically to do with that film ready to release well before the fed meeting us at the same explosion marketing yes I’m ready if late to pre sell the phone but also nine it’s become so common to use already existing music assign track me say so not just temp tracks anymore but said bill told them so the likes of mamma mia and sunshine on the street you using the music of a specific plans to build a whole narrative around isn’t this stage play we rocky isn’t it that like that yes not exclusively clean but it’s not rock opera thing is that we are is we can take a bunch of queens arms of a gonna have characters in a narrative where every now and then one of them has to stop and sing a song about the situation also happens to be a quick so I’m just going to work out there was a bit when I thought this music is from the future of the time when things are happening in the storage space because it was one forty but it helps me was having one of his first big lavish parties and the music off of this didn’t come up until about ten years later it was kind of touches but it was what that was sampled from most none it wasn’t and see how far it was heat sample thought you’ve got and you have a mixed up with vanilla ice MC hammer born Stanley Kirk Burrell let’s work out the timings on this coming soon okay conducts this %HESITATION you can’t touch this nineteen nineties so yeah we were getting a piece of nice Cummins okay federalist use the baseline from under pressure completely with permission as part of his made in nineteen ninety yeah I know that I was talking of a baby contestants will not and then it was it seemed to be officially it was music somebody was playing at Freddy’s party that was supposed to be happening in something like nineteen seventy nine but you know this is music from nineteen ninety but then of course I realize no one’s hearing this music at this party this is just incidental non digested music but I also so is it weird that they’re using popular music from future history space as non biogenic music not samples from the disco chart I don’t think so okay I have to look this up okay all right the some samples the permanent opening riff of the Rick James song super freak yeah that’s what I saw you’re going to tell different just do something I just do the thing okay friend what is super freak nine eight one that’s what I was trying okay so we can all right then we’ll go back and have this because I can sell it no no in the sense read the credits okay Rick I’ve mixed up to preclude the context okay sorry since nineteen eighty one might still have been in the future when I was supposed to be happening maybe that was there any any specific not long after that that that old because the party goes to Munich in numbers nineteen eighty four that’s a pretty discography data raises nineteen seventy six news of the world nineteen seventy seven jazz nineteen seventy eight the game nineteen eighty plus gold in nineteen eighty and then hot space which is the poppy one nineteen two okay it roughly fits with that this is a highly compressed gases and tiny okay will not actually move to pieces of music and that rendition of bohemian Rhapsody from stone cold classics compassion is at the very first green of my arms his greatest hits one how did that happen I want to know how it is that people get const as real life figures and also have an acting career I just checked the bios of each of the people who played the names of queen everyone of them has an acting career %HESITATION in Leicester’s one in several places because rami Malek isn’t a Gyptian prince in the night to the museum films very posh well spoken prince was over then have some career and it’s been picked as these people who they look exactly like it seems like astonishing lock %HESITATION just great head makeup and prosthetics well I would say so yeah widen somebody’s knows a bit the picture of physically lands yeah maybe yeah he looked very different but the big Brian may hair you can believe it Brian may have a million five reserves a dramatization a few years back all of the early career of the punk fans up to that point when they have that TV interview about life of Brian okay where Malcolm Muggeridge was addicted to them the six because he got to play the Parsons with total spitting images of the Balkans when they’re young I suppose it’s just a matter of you get people he really wants to play the part and then they can alter the face shape just low bat makeup of prosthetics and hat yes residual current sevens world but %HESITATION everyone’s saying wins wasn’t feeling a little bit betrayed because I thought is queen a head banging okay so this one of the tracks has about a two minute bit in it which is head banging but is anything else that they do hate that he felt slightly between the trash like green have been taken out if the needs that they have for themselves and claimed as it happened which they never will never work and this is still operatic it is mixing them but yet again wins well that was an early beginning of my awareness of Clinton and then also that same as parity and a space from coal loaded weapons I was respectively who is a member of the menu Estevez ready for you yeah and they have a party that scene from Wayne’s world the car is from the makers the naked gun yeah from China yeah I can picture the diagram right now if the relationship is a lot going on yeah there’s a lot of things that are making it because even talking about it from the movies are there there is some some research on that %HESITATION dawn of the dead in terms of thirty ten yes queen what do you think for the benefit of anyone who might actually decide whether to go and see this phone off depending upon what we say I got to a fake that anybody got some touches me tells me I haven’t seen the films that you’re talking about it so I’ll listen to the episode when I’ve seen the film because we are pretty spoilery maybe it’s different Mrs likes of a biopic but then if you didn’t know the life story of someone that is going to be spoilery at such an enjoyable film is really rising it’s everything you want like and that’s all the songs probably the economical are going to be in their candy floss the elements of it but none of it is okay now here’s another song that you like that you really want us to play for you everything is motivated the axe ready well earliest it’s from the main piece of cinema okay perhaps we’re getting an account of reality which is less interesting than an actual truthful one would have been in places where there is this big pressure on all the surviving members of queen in the making of a film like this which is that this is as critical as of Freddie’s memory as they were gonna let any film bait it does say that he’s not perfect it wasn’t easy parking and all my fellow this time but they’re quite special I think he gave the world something I can miss alive at a time when we could record him come away and say about boys but the voice is gonna last for as long as humanity can prisoners were constantly copying recordings from one medium to the neck yeah that’s fine because of the way that it’s going to last but that’s the beauty of it is well to capture that idea from recording on tape and the the lettering on the tape and the tape spring nights and then referring to all of that and that we’re not doing that anymore because the kids that attacks sure my signs and then dot texture being on the final as well when I was coming I thought so much a part of music for men I think that’s one of the reasons why me being an old person nine being a twentieth century person as that I think I get really bored with a lot of contemporaneously naive because to clean I like the Scott Tunis I like that I can hear it the media being ace and the twentieth century in this room excited about the technologies involved with those of people throwing vinyl at each other yeah this is a physical object thrown around the room and the sufferings being around yeah it’s not carrying signs on my back selecting a few files someone recording the missing a lot of tapes on reels back in full force of personal voting looking at the rewinding it so having the way it anticipation off of things that said putting candles on microphones throwing coins on the drums during the year on the job that was the thing there’s so many shots of Roger Taylor smacking drum water coming up from the phone book the film plays it was lunch the day after Houston’s Devin the sound in a second phase you Hey it’s catching the light so it is something visually exciting it’s almost explosive it’s like fireworks it’s it’s another health benefit going on was definitely part of the queen yeah that’s what I thought it was worth the drums officers contractually that’s a probably be I well after its bond sentiments anymore if you haven’t seen it on the run is over and send them back really recommend checking out or even if you don’t clean funny probably with the body and the glasses are not entirely rose tinted no they’re not from %HESITATION I think the best biopics are like in the summer the costumes


Audiovisual Cultures episode 62 – Community, Collaboration and Courage International Women’s Day Panel automated transcript

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we need to sound for jobs consulate throw to any podcast recording one knows when judge hassle free throws hello and welcome to audio visual cultures podcast exploring different areas of the arts and cultural production I'm polo player and I'm delighted to present this special episode recorded at the community collaboration encourage event for international women's day twenty twenty organized and hosted by creative producer for placeholder and abstract video artist Rachel Breck which took place at B. indie studios in Newcastle upon Tyne huge thanks our members at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for you continue to much valued support and thanks as well to everyone engaging on social media this episode cuts between several speakers introduced throughout the session so there will be some changes and audio quality that I've tried this method as much as possible to listen to the end for details on how you can help support custom proof and those sorts of areas and just so you know there will be a wee bit of swearing a hundred per night chilled D. enjoy this discussion thank you for coming to community collaboration and coverage led by Marxist productions %HESITATION to place holder %HESITATION we are here as part of international women's day in solidarity as people who identify as women or non binary to look at how we can counteract bias isolation prejudice under courage collective ness and support each other through building courage via community and collaboration as part of the discussion we have a few people have joined us here a lot of harm in Austin print make it was also a community worker and activist have clemency Mogan of Memphis productions it's R. ET Dr brings life experiences to spaces and finds new ways of talking to audiences as well as bringing all this together collaboratively we have just been S. independent curator working with emerging all S. and founder of the curatorial collective which is a program of development and support security is outside of the university environment I'm recording for a podcast city with for a playoff or do visual cultures we're going to enter into an agreement today that we will respect each other's diverse city and you know listen to each other and engage in a positive conversation and try to support each other as well as providing counter perspectives and arguments and such we don't have to agree but we can all respect each other I'm going to start with Kira so Kira what is the value of community in a creative environment and what your experience with this and then to the rest of the group after that war or the people's experiences of that as well I think as a socially engaged artists I couldn't make work with the Irish community not only as inspiration can you see also acts as a catalyst for pushing me forward in terms of support a lot of the work that I make is informed by a lot of the active my do I work with a community union called acorn fund terribly and %HESITATION a help people like myself from working class backgrounds are low income backgrounds to challenge the status quo and take things that should be there's like their basic human rights so I think having community involved in my work is just something that's always going to be there when I began making arts or begin a project I always think it bears who's this project for I am really interested in accessibility as a person with a disability accessibility in the act can be quite you know in terms of like if you haven't had an arts education view and feel that you're not awkwardly mobile island off to enter a gallery I prefer to take our house to the people and I see the community as being like my community and people in Newcastle's being like truly vital to everything the project I'm working on at the moment involves the community of terror box so there is one in the east and that's where I live and then one in the west end I used to live in the west and to the Starbucks a state pass every day and I working together with some amazing inspirational people to write a musical advice well I use the term musical very loosely head to write a musical of sorts obeys what it's like to live in a terribly and washed we imagine a tower block blaze team or feel or like in the distant future if they were to be like Joe goes how would people look at that as a relic or are they type of time capsule I think the community is so integral to everything I do and everything I think a base you can't live with the community you live in the community but I've really taken a big leap and making sure that it's deeply ingrained and enmeshed in my work sometimes the music acts gets a bad name people think it's going to be like a load of collages you know or like some bad paintings and I never think that they're like buy clothes and buy paintings but people are like %HESITATION so it's just gonna be lovely thing everyone do it this initiating it'll be great what community arts could be radical Katie and can be about taking charge of the situation for me it's a base in reaching a community and helping people to see their own work and also to impact people's mental health positively because it's something that I struggle with and I think if the girls are going to provide any sort of leisure services or aren't going to phone the NHS very well also we need these sort of things to cling on to how do you feel that gender can essentially mean that you require a community to support you because of your identity yeah I mean it's no secret as a person who identifies on the transfection and he was also L. G. B. T. Q. that's there's a lot of opposition to the US in the world I've found new castle thankfully to be a very open and accepting place I wasn't able to be acts as buy or non binary or time reading and non binary when I was in Ireland and I think moving here really helps me I think in terms of community I was able to make a huge leap in my practice as an artist and suggested my general well being by becoming more involved with the L. G. B. T. Q. plus %HESITATION H. M. all the letters community I helped find the DJ which is drag gender folk and androgyny and it's a group of people who enjoyed drag as a pastime or as a way of life or as a way to say fuck you to the world or like love used to where I live and with X. staffs organization I don't think I would have become as confidence so amazing not just for like myself but to see younger people I think the youngest track before we have this fourteen in the DJ amazing they're so cute share drive to leave the Harlem but it's really amazing to see hello across multiple ages and multiple gender identities that can really impact young people in a really positive way so I think when there are so many trans people being oppressed and dying and when people are still fighting for the right to get married or at the right to like nas B. merger to for the person that they are I feel incredibly lucky to be in the position that I'm in to be in a welcoming space and yes I think if you are in Ireland and she wants to be a big case somewhere else come to Newcastle what is he colonizing that's another big thing for me is like look at a lot of this sort of stuff right recommend community and in terms of my identity as a non binary person us at Penn sexual person as a way of decolonizing myself and troubling that idea of no offense to the Hampshire room norms of world but it's a bit passe white colonialists tossed meat for that to be the only way for us to live our lives just do you have any thoughts on laughs yeah well I think you may like can you see it is extremely important and definitely I think I've noticed a lot more being a new castle compared to be in Buckham Liverpool origins to Manchester I do think new castle is very honest lads but the same time was so supportive of each other and I think it's great to be here and in the environment more than anything yeah I think it's with that comes a lot of support which I think we only use because you know we all have sinned during the practices which we can all agree every week you probably to get inside our heads and I'm sad I think that was one of the main things which made me stop the crucial collective cause for me as a mission trip yeah I was in this very weird space where you know often traineeships and I've been getting this experience %HESITATION I'm now replying to some other up to school but now the like %HESITATION no go to qualified but then I'm not applying for the entry level curation jobs in institutions and techno you don't have enough experience yet some in the spare we we it's in between you know my husband like okay how do I get from a to B. what do I have to do to get that experience got that spoke about recognition on one thing I did learn was voice not to the community and attends all of the people were in a similar situation as me you know it might often you're totally was like you know autistic whether it be a rise to and that is what it's like in full speed to make a collective and we'd be having these conversations these discussions and just you know being very like minded and supportive of each other of what we can do with a new castle you know it might not be make information available %HESITATION support and %HESITATION maybe driving someone else's development that they got today I think that's really important key to this a little bit about your accusatory looks active please yes Sir with this style is I think was last August so I'm an associate member of the new bridge projects and when I saw this was a conversation I did have with Nairobi who's the program director that she again felt the same way she's what's both sectional loss of around the northeast issues at this loads of all sweatshops and stuff take the flaws but nothing ready for the behind the scenes people involved in exhibitions we had a big discussion about what is a curator because he's gone but years ago is this idea of like the G. D. of K. in a museum but realistically that's not where it is now you have to be able to do market and you have to be able to network you have to be able to install this loads of you know I never do a correction job is the same as the previous one of don I think it's about you know okay well how do we create group %HESITATION we start these conversations and provide these tools which can help people with and there is they probably do struggle with singing of since then we did like a bit of a social see what people wanted to get out of the collective we've been inclusion of the queue right is to come up and have conversations we did a writing workshop for the local rice at right into something I struggle with all the time so I think that's a simple and almost provide an all around spectrum of what people want to get out of school so it is still an ongoing thing and you know if anyone wants to get involved with anyone wants to recommend anything like do get until it's because I'm always wanting more webshop some more discussions on anything is there a website URL or an email address and citizens from the moment curatorial talk lex if I am making a website currently amazing thank you Jess okay hello would you like to add any thoughts on the subject matter twenty three first I'm calling from China China Carolinians me currently thank you so much for coming %HESITATION the castle's buildings and I'm doing a project about the international and state side found this Siemens AG here is my friend the only sighing Helen's knoll and well you know in my country we I don't know maybe I just focus on family and the world but since I came here I found there a loss of communities as the last week we've been to like a workshop there are over twenty hours thirty communities they just help of men to go back to Korea and how to be stronger he's really inspired me since you've been in new castle what's your kind of experience of the arts and creativity and and that sort of thing up what kind of experiences of the hot I guess first class online always smile and that you %HESITATION just stranger but slowly you know how I context will say hello and how are you something like this and there's still my unique life we can't difficult L. challenging for us because the information is not our mother tongue so at the first L. Y. leasing to my teachers talking about I couldn't catch what they're talking about I've been here full hour half years I think my listening it has improved and the talking I think I'm really loves this place is not as easy as a mentor and I think the last time we spoke these people have more time to enjoy your life and not just focus on the work I think do you income challenges as a woman in your educational practicing your preferences D. field tests as a woman you need more community around here I'm really happy to see there's lots of community to help the woman I haven't found in my country maybe they do how that's I just haven't had that in touch with them yeah do you have any thoughts yeah I think for me I've always find it a bit difficult to find my people find my community I think it took years and Belfast's T. become part of the arts community more broadly and then I had to up sticks and come here and I had to move around a lot for a few years and I've settled in new castle for the past three years and I feel like I'm beginning to see signs many people my tribe and quite a bit of my tribe is currently here in this room I think it's something I value which is why I feel like I seek it so I feel like it's it's I'm still accumulating but I have real trust issues as well and I think just on the gender is she I think a lot of my trust husband spends on specifically women who have broken my trust and so I find thoughts a bit of a difficulty that I'm trying to overcome maybe it shouldn't but it hurts a bit more when women have been your police so it's just trying to be overcome not and spell trust again with new people it's something I value a but I'm quite tentative bite if that makes sense I'm still working three community issue yeah I completely understand the perspective that you coming from and %HESITATION I've encountered my own experiences of loss of confidence where I've been in an environment maybe one way or the colleagues who all I did a similar with level as me and same gender or who would be my CD I have made me feel less confident about the work that I do less confident about my ability to achieve things I think it's so important that we support each other and that we give each of the motivation and recognize each of us value and we're already up against huge challenges with regards to gender bias and inequality and so the value of supporting each other so you know important and my experience as an artist is that I've always been to create a since I was a child yes it's only being in Miami must say is now I've only just really started to bring myself out of isolation with I always used to make it home and spend a lot of time on my own and the loss that was about trust as well and so I've moved into B. indie studios which where we are today recording %HESITATION specifically moved here because I was already working in the building so I knew people in the building already and just chose my studio based on the location being essentially alongside this room that we're in right now and the importance of thought was the opportunity to be able to come out of that room and speak to people and meet people and I've already made in two months that I've been here I've made so many connections both of people based in this building and people outside of the building %HESITATION over here today and that's just amazing and the confidence that you get from being around other people who either have similar experiences to you or who you identify with or who you know were all written for you it's just it's one of the most empowering brilliant things that I've ever experienced it's really important that %HESITATION maintain this community because I'm a norm of soft sort of person that will allow myself to retreat into my own soul sort of neurotic vocal and I called like the Hoffman because it affects my creativity at the end of the day absolutely my name's on the post I'm from the northeast and are free before midnight on the northeast for many many years now I can see both sides at the flow of being here and being knocked systems play a bit of time on the west coast of America as well for me I think there are so many layers of community events almost difficult to skip this one woods said what can be applied to so much because of course in the office community there are so many blessings that are closest to a cancer center this is the second biggest comebacks merit it's a wonderful thing to feel part of something but even when you feel hot you could feel very much distance in every single event maybe I caught a forty three members don't feel well enough and all of those things can be difficult for it's still for the fact that many of us I'm sure how many assumptions but no surprise %HESITATION it's no weird feelings towards the office and aside from any kind of US eccentricities be wonderful folks we spend a lot of time on our own it's a lot of the city it is an easy life so community in terms of in the office communities it's essential thing but it's a very living being and it can be very changeable and sometimes difficult to work with book of salubrious sensitive people school together in both so I was thinking about community and more of a %HESITATION identity modern city communities that working class person and representative specially because I'm a poet and poetry it is someone sorry no skin apparently in terms of sales of poultry all time high for recent news which is amazing and I think it's probably because for in trying times and difficult times and people who haven't necessarily been leaning on social sciences find this is the place that they can find expression they can express themselves people songs right proteins Carissa %HESITATION yeah in terms of a percent a sense of working class there's a lot in the country but it's not the first thing that people think about necessarily coaching because it was very much in the early to stay on topic this practice is for everyone so you have to be present in the working class communities just palm Hassel what I do hope that up to the state economy hi am class community oh my goodness what a huge would have resulted in different connotations to every individual here today I think for me looking at community in an artistic context I think I've spent a long time somehow thinking that the great artistic community of the northeast was this great golden circle %HESITATION to conduct penetrate this great Goldenson collective read the wonderful dynamic people on so for a long time I felt very much I. scientific community book now locks start to feel like I'm kinda Grob truly becoming mall appalled after community and being able to a sold it to find it on my own tunes I kind of feel that a lot of those Smith said I had to borrow all too soon the northeast when they submit actually a lot of those people of justice in securing more regions struggling the site that's a B. so I think it's also about breaking down the meal hi but also as well the class is massively important and this somebody who studies are a comprehensive didn't go fee paying school didn't go off experten Cambridgeshire will answer from the northeast feeling not the pasta syndrome somebody was talking about that as well and nothing stopped it for a long time my reality through sort of the films that put it a sort of still very much bag and I think there is still this perception that the all star lanes will somehow kind of quite middle class but actually the vast majority of regular people all hugely creative in one way shape or form and it's about supporting people they give themselves connection also community sounded depictions to feel that they all created beings and that it is since the roe we lost our heads the company but it doesn't have to be it can be let's have it sit together and do some knitting I'm not too old you know it's not kind of creative perspective on nothing poetry is read the excitement of the wrongs of working class people who needs poetry is a medium with which to Sharon expressed that realities reading but I think we'll do the same as well about curation and gate keeping and glad we show our creativity within communities is a real challenge but I think it's really exciting and I also think that it's something that is going to become more and more exciting %HESITATION it's vitally important as we go through a formal yes if the Tories yeah great great yeah months of scam but also lots of opportunities to do just still sorry clappers wondering please K. do you have a good description of what you would say impossible it feels like this is in case if anyone doesn't know what else to do so I think imposter syndrome is about feeling that you all know with you have been happening the particular space on the comp B. two two sometimes with sex or gender a combi today with experiences of class or variety of different sort of identities my understanding of the is it supposed to feed them that they shouldn't be why shouldn't they put Oxley yes the show to the justice entitled to be in some way I was unable to yells but it is a psychological thing it's something that people have developed over a long time because by virtue of the feeling they shouldn't be so let this be the point where they've been told I digress he'll indirect means that difficult no right to be somewhat thought would be my interpretation of that I mean obviously everybody will help them to individual experience office and I think for a lot of people a lot of women in the law of non binary people of people who identify as female I think it's a much sufficient for people to just sort of feel know what money doing here I shouldn't be allowed to be here I think for roses creative people it's about creating spaces where people feel they should include the cops would be a welcome to please select the number of the people's taste call not only do I agree with you and I think whatever your gender or your upbringing is imposter syndrome kind of makes us home when you've got a cocktail of things if I think back to base when I lived in Ireland and when I moved here I mean I had a bit of imposter syndrome and %HESITATION and it might have been that I was a bit younger but more from the follies of youth I'm not usually %HESITATION now speaking on the idea of seeing like you know like to be somewhere I was never more aware of how different I was and when I moved to this country because I wasn't aware I had a class until I moved here I wasn't aware of this I had a funny accents or obviously I was aware of history unfortunately not many people in this country are more into Tories yeah I wasn't aware of all the sort of thing so getting a big opportunity like this project that I'm working on every day I'm like I'm just a little baby pence sexual non binary immigrants from the backers of know where those come over here what have I got to do or say or sometimes I feel a bit weird but like getting a nice group of ragtag Georgie's together and like and I'm not like a true Georgie and I work for grades so I'm a little bit like a golf tournaments and but yeah I think it's imposter syndrome homes to you when you least expect it and also when you most expect it's it's just kind of %HESITATION yeah actually I wasn't as scared as a bears what I was a lie which to do until late moved here and that goes for like England's ands nas necessary new castle as a place I'm talking about culturally in this country because I mean they're super super and sports appeared yeah I wasn't ready for that I wasn't ready for that sort of weird indirect questioning of who I am and what I'm even here yeah and then it's obviously all fell apart from brexit happens that's a lot to contend with that's my take on I mean I think for me especially being a cure right yeah a lot of big curate is especially from London all white middle class men hate spring the open I'm gonna bring opal it's just I said I feel like all the time when I'm doing stuff I question myself as a woman I'm like should I be doing this should have been put on this big exhibition I don't know I shouldn't but I feel like it's just looking back to raise of history that I am like I shouldn't be here I should be doing this off the time and I don't even know why I think not because you know even like a lot of of self friends at the new bridge projects and like even I come from such a great family where all the women in my family have some strong like with us we've got like a women's like what's hot shot I like it when I have a life don't know cells which is you know I'll always get messages like just stop like you know get out of this mindset like you doing great and I think it's almost is trying to always remind yourself that that you know impose syndrome is also like a counter reaction of fuel and Janie as well and I think you have to think about the Cheney %HESITATION wrong as individuals but just remember it's a really valuable thing that I asked my friend Leslie guy once told me when I was getting the base imposter syndrome eight that's the patriot Seoul don't let yourselves and I was like any time I feel the bass imposters like the patriarchate if she could do that either way I'm just like if I have a second double like white middle class men in my role to go to the women who are surrounded me and got that support Chinese and I think that's important as women that we all do in not in the creative arts in this there is a saying that you should approach things with the confidence of a mediocre white middle class man because almost like any other super again Weiss middle class mediocre men can have problems too and I'm not denying that S. yeah he's right there if you're listening I think one of the most interesting arguments I've heard recently is this if well educated middle class men who all whites all struggling then the social you know and and you know if if you hear of people in those environments struggling at that shows this we have even more reason to be coming together and supporting each other I was knocked man and %HESITATION as creative people %HESITATION as people who want to make things happen I'm one of the supportive of both the people and celebrates accuracy is impossible something that people experience in China is that a similar do you have the terminologies for that kind of experience do you have something similar %HESITATION is there anything that you can relate to because I'm asking this question for my own ignorance to a certain extent in that I don't know if it's an internationally valid experience or whatever whether there's something is there a term or a similar wording full of the experience of when you all at work or you in an environment that you feel out of place please if I have some problem travel I think only my family all my relatives come help me like I mentioned though I didn't send any community and all kind of help heal like how a child to and to talk about your experience let's take together no I haven't I think system your family and the relatives that's a really interesting point because I think you family all so important yes sometimes families can be part of the problem as well as a most times before I came here I worked for almost three years and they find a problem with my work I prefer to talk to my friends I think they can give me some advice that I tell the sides not to like my heart is maybe our meal off something is different and even sometimes they kill me someone last I'd still does habits yeah do you feel as a woman dies you feel different to the men in your places of work in in your educational environment the interesting because my major is international multimedia journalism my position in my company was Jennifer Staab presenter all of the presenter %HESITATION girls the law is yeah but are simple life there %HESITATION now that's a mon managing a group of women and Jana sing that rex spectate shins yeah that's really interesting yeah I think it's quite difficult for a woman to be us provide there why do you that is the household name especially when you'll get married you need to balance the life and work you know you don't how much energy to put in your work so I think just my opinion I think maybe the lost her for to kill promotion was not I think I think it's really important for us to be conscious of the fact that our experience nationally and heroes someone from Ireland we have so many different perspectives around the world and that what we're experiencing here is very different to maybe what you experience in China %HESITATION and stop balance of your ability to think about your work and your life as a woman is so different would you say that the expectation to get married for example in China was I guess the question I want to ask you is in China if you decided I'm not going to get married %HESITATION and I'm not going to go into business and I'm going to be an all is what without experience be like for you would you you know do you know people who've who made decisions like that he said I'm not going to marry I'm not going to work I'm to make often gonna make music yeah I'll call friends she was my classmate we lived together she said %HESITATION accountants now has a boyfriend I don't know why but she told me she bill months again marriages hello marriage is quite difficult maybe I guess she just smiled focus on her work her job and she's doing well he's doing really well in in her own position and last year I eat we talked and she told me about race the her salary excellent that's wonderful cool even the imposter syndrome well I am a working class person from what's called a P. U. L. community in Belfast the Protestant unionist loyalists identity and I did an arts and humanities PhD so yes I am well acquainted because you're not supposed to do any of these things you're not supposed to get an education or B. RT farting where I come from so that's probably an indication behaving quite rebellious but also it's amazing hi many from that community are really rebellious and do those things people from working class backgrounds there's just something intrinsically artistic up white people and they need and desire and I know that you have to break through a lot of social norms to be yourself even if yourself isn't really that radicalization to the rest of society you know twenty twenty four assists are considering my own constant imposter syndrome and how it feels like it can live very much in you working you can spend two days waiting on a roll you write something down you're doing something else to say like what do you do and why you doing this and aside from any issues with your and your lucky nope within all of us I think the sun realty is a female descent person all this is that it's almost like it's been in greens in nearby I've come from a musical background as well and I would President Johnson bonds that never ever regarded itself as a female fronted bond for every single bill you on there like well dressed female came to bones no smell the necessary things to get people to comb and then now I feel like I have this kind of issue with being written down or recorded us feminists ports and please don't smoke free right away to school science and heard because my work is going to be program and it's going to be a pro and marginalized persons and groups but lots of movies I want to help the female artists we don't have that and then the office analysts at this late I realize this because it's something it's a gas problems that white people do I don't know but it bothers me I can't recall the spot a little phone bills I think it's putting you in your place it is maybe we should start using the term %HESITATION this mail postal mail radio broadcasting hello this male journalists like so many years of being the only woman on a bill and then your way to the top of the children C. mobile service do you mind and everything going for the men and that's very frustrating so that on my own of course there was an imposter syndrome when you make in the woods when this is what you'll be met with way more often than not for every for street in port that's why I guess to go back you need to have things like community and we need to build each other up and realize that you call a syndrome means with that in mind I guess when I asked Kay and %HESITATION how kind collaboration empower us and why should we collaborate on he couldn't do huge chunk of what I do with that collaborates and %HESITATION basically in my work mainly now this creative producer among fish production side would come with a huge range of different all this and creative people in all sorts of settings using a range of difference all forums whether tops music soundscape vision loss the act that may K. %HESITATION huge Paul thought this collaboration on a spool sort of thinking about why I think collaboration is important for me is given the sort of the current climate that worldly mommy Kareena walked troops if you like for twenty twenty off walk cold three scenes connective itty so connecting with others and I don't necessarily mean this justice in an artistic or creative way but generally is connecting with as many people as I possibly calm and also not necessarily online I think we do a lot of spending time online %HESITATION dust sprays but sometimes it's not grease compaction and I told me not in a cool complexions so quick but maybe I do but I mean compassionate really strong power a full way connected in the complexion with so that is a critical thinking thinking critically thinking about the world from a range of different perspectives I'm one of looked at those three watchwords of full cooperation is absolutely key from my perspective to make an old of those three things happened and as a creative person making those things happen so connected with %HESITATION there is hope and compassion and support me on to this to think critically and I think collaboration as of Oct of solidarity so whether you're working with another office to make some than what you would do with the community to make or to engage together and make something happen solidarity on low fought with it it's a really active it's not a possibility we talk about the act of solidarity and I think in terms of international women's day and while we all as just one example of those many things I think that's really important to build each other up I think collaboration is really important for all of us here in terms of support in building each other up I think if rich's might create practice whenever I'm working with somebody it allows me to see something from a range of different perspectives %HESITATION it supports me to make working the way I look the Wiest wouldn't even think about Mary Kay so I think that's really important I think eighteen tombs all of the current climate cooperation over competition I think it is absolutely important strategically as alternatives to talk about the patriarchy the ghost of patriarchy and as an alternative to capitalism and neoliberalism the idea of cooperation and the power of thought the power to do that and I think that's why it's no accident the humanities and all in creative subjects are being hammered out with universities and how may doubt spoon because they don't want to creative critical thinking skills I'm not sweat our work as creatives is just so valuable to smash in the system basically keeping it going and keep a hold of communities go with and I think yeah in the current climate keep in those stories flowing and providing women and non binary and female people with the space to remarks in the Oldham option noble and dream for what can be dreamed and strong enough to support each other to make real the realities of the spaces we wish to say shopping is really important and I just found this on low for this quote real queens fix each other's crowns are not just hold that thought leadership thing about because I thought that was just a really lovely thing in terms of cooperation and working together I just thought that was a really lovely thing to do and a lovely thing to think about this and also I found a quote which I thought was really interesting for me Dana champagne cold I need to open I'm sorry if I'm gonna have pronunciation right if I need when women lead to slight committees do not feel the inequality we tend to forget something is not working and I think that's a with a shot across the bows about intersectional let's see %HESITATION you know I'm very conscious that to all intents and purposes on the white woman and you know what I experience a range of the privileges %HESITATION you know to be mindful of the fact that it's been mindful of old all wine to different experiences as women put that goal box collaboration I think it Gadot as huge opportunity to learn from other people who have a variety of life experiences and that was the full set of cable with but I think the power that we have this collaboration and the power to smash the patriarchy basically through continued to collaborate and be creative we need creative people now like the finance it needs great people check I would like to ask Jess you fools on the process of wanting to take a Cray if possible make a new creative path in your life than you would if you practice but feeling like you might have constrains by society by culture by gender by finance how do we encourage each other to kind of make the big league so small changes to work towards getting to where we want to be in how do we encourage each other to do that I think this is something I've rarely felt recently so I went from being in in a full time job for like two years and then I've recently holds about six months ago now I left and came down to part time and during that time I was in that job world even those in the office you almost got yourself in a mindset okay I'm still being creative I'm into all its related job this is okay and then about three or four months and I was very young women I'm not to my curation I'm not do not want to do and when I was kind of cheesy city were free not still I'd have to take a whole day in my role I'm like why not okay the anyway I then left that job role and became part time I'm on my finances all I you know I am struggling a lot right now full the amount of opportunities are hot and you know my curation taken off of No Way diving just said if I was still in that job role it probably take me about two years still been in the jungle to get what I've done in the past six months don't find not the saw that it's almost like a juggling process and I think we should get those creative people as well you know a lot of people will have the job the family at the house and you know a past %HESITATION my first week the oldest them plus a creative practice I think we just got so forgetful not sometimes I think I've definitely learnt recently that it needs to be that I need to listen to myself from where I am right now and that is okay I got a third of that feeds into this whole process syndromic I am I think we get so drilled into comparisons to all those in the %HESITATION what they're doing right now they sometimes do to think okay realistically what do I need right now but even I'm thinking now okay maybe I need to get these projects some watch online deal and then maybe go back into full time for a bit I can get a bit more money and then drop it down again maybe that awaits me I think it's been mindful and supportive of the people around you is while he may be I can go through a similar situation and then speaking in terms of society and culture so I whipped full the Liverpool biennial in two thousand eighteen as a curatorial training AT I'm we were having a chat with a lot of the women who were in the office and I actually hot one of my colleagues asked me canasta SO you ever want to have kids in your life as a something of thinking about it like what the time was like I'm twenty three now it can be this is way off and she was like I'm gonna tell you this now as a support women in the industry do not have children until you are in a comfortable role where if you take a densely you can jump right back in and I was like what was that was I think she was I'm telling you now it's been loads of women who she knows what they've taken maternity leave %HESITATION they've gone back into the organization and then they just drop the light up and then they also help stop the creative path again that's really not okay %HESITATION needs to be voice not unusual voices women to change that in the industry it is important as women that we all not just be mindful self mean mindful of the women around us who we get support from I'm checking in with everyone and seeing if they're okay what advice would you give to someone in a situation where they were like I feel trapped in well I'm in now when I want to get to a certain place you talk about believing in yourself yeah that's obviously a huge step in I remember someone saying to me not that long ago believe in yourself it sent a shiver up my spine yeah because I was like wow that's the first step post it's not the only step because the so many so many challenges and I'm just wondering how we can advise people almost or five P. is to go understand everyone passing understand the room needs you know how did you come to that point really well did you or did you just suddenly just fall into it I guess but the alternative is that sometimes it doesn't necessarily involve is thrown out the whole process sometimes you just find ourselves in situations that what would you say to another person who was finding itself in a similar environment to the terms he I do think I have been quite lucky in the opportunities I've hot well I am very driven myself anyway I have such a strong work ethic and I again I don't have to stay in with class and northern of always been able to think you know what if I want something I'm gonna have to with bloody hot together I will get it well I'm going to have to wait for the hot I'm almost always set up to make public since I was like in ages I think that is just important in yourself I think that has always been my drive to be like okay I'm going to be a great cure it one day well it's going to be hard to is to get the I do not think it should go back to the scientific community and collaboration not we should be using our voice with people I'm just really been supportive because I know that my Cheney is completely different to the express and sit next to me and I think my advice would be to maybe it's okay to take a step back and reflect on your Cheney on what you're doing and all the people in your community and going that way too you can have these conversations with to be honest and open minded and just be you know this is where I wanna go how do I get that old even if its financial advice even times if I'm working full time both got a family to Rome I wanted to make her practice is there a way of me trying to juggle a lot I think it's just about reflection with anything convince full of one of the I was just when Jeff was talking I was reminded of this really great campaign that was started in Ireland called waking the feminists that was a bag is essentially challenging the gender bias in arts and critically and future in Ireland this happened after the centenary of the nineteen sixteen rising in twenty sixteen the abbey seizure which is the theater in Ireland commissions I can't remember the exact amount of place that they'd commissioned or writers of the commission of the charge of the moment I think it was two women yes two women out of sixteen all the women and people of the country were like hi yes wash is going on I was just thinking about use this really powerful thing that I read in a thesis last grown you Pollock ropes called staying awake which was Iran's the waking the feminists think she wrote it for her masters and they submitted powerful quotes in advance the idea of you have to go away to make a human person and then you come back and says women often find themselves marginalized and stigmatized and aren't likely to be defined by the superiors as not committed to a career this leasing opportunities for upward advancement however or last this is the person that the coaches also pointed at motherhood actually helped her work life balance she said I started leaving at five o'clock because I have to crash pickups and that was the first time in my life that I kept my hours so it kind of was helping to keep we believe that having my kids made me a more balanced and better worker bush for those who do resume their careers and future some find their views through a new unfavorable lands palm voids and Irish writer and actor articulates a subtle manifestation of this being a motor instantly ranges you as less of a thinker less ambitious less interesting Fiona recalls feeling like this really old housewife that was coming out and trying to pretend to be an artist %HESITATION her return to the sector one female artist or artist as we like thank you for the purpose of this as I think it's important that they specify the response of the arts council commissions research on the living and working conditions of arts and art and expressed an active decision not to have children as a result of the lack of support I would never have children she says I chose my path knowing the conditions that lay ahead but could not subject them on children not without some financial security so this is not a new thing it's not and in a lot of this activist work or even just working S. I mean my activism and being an actress or very much complacent in doctor refer spect I always try to think about people and their families and how that fits in so when I was starting this project called most of it is sky the musical of sorts I made sure that I told people who wanted to be part of the project status people with children are welcome that children can be involved not to worry about commitments arrange childcare bring them with you if you want to be part of this it's totally fine and the same thing in terms of activism with acorn one of our youngest acorn heads is %HESITATION wonderful little girl calls later his two and a half your parents are amazing I think the person who I look up to last as a researcher is her mother winds that blow she's a researcher at Newcastle University our branch here in new castle new castle a cornice specifically very open at base grace and children in activism and we were thinking about use how do we facilitate coming crash stuff he has unique bass and I think in the world to where more we've been down binary people trans people even trans men who might be wanting to have children we need to start thinking about yourself hello we provides the sort of services I think employers in the arts sector you need to be a lot more proactive and you know a lot more understanding of Asian family life and stuff like that I mean it's not necessarily a big thing for me most I would fight to the ends of the earth to have that for somebody else again it comes back to that idea to supporting each other and working together and listening I think listening is a big thing sometimes just having an ear to run tests or I would say that a lot of the people who participated in the research for waking the feminists were just really happy to be able to be listened to what about the issues that they were experiencing as women and people making future making creative stuff in Ireland and I'm sure it's the same situation here there just hasn't been a countrywide speak thing I mean this is a big country with a bigger population I think the fact that you're running curatorial collective is a really great thanks to the makes me really proud to be your friend but I mean just just one not really weird though that you know it's twenty twenty and I was sad that I need to worry about if I want to have a child in the future is not okay is not normal I mean I'm sure we all think that as women anyway people especially in the creative sector I think to start a movement I feel like maybe it needs to be you know something we do speak about more because you know even this conversation how to just in the containers a couple shows kind of thing radical crashes yeah radical approaches her rental leave I think we need to be more Raj but that's always my and isolation yeah so I'm gonna read she just sort of thing because well there's a white full size class strings that are about having a family and also for people who maybe want a different work life balance so one of the different lifestyle why should people be excluded from the arts and creative industries because they won't finally old because they have elderly relatives to care for all that the woman to science hall for them life we can creatively Avenue the halls with something else that they want to do that it seems that it's a wine to discussion of bites how industries all constructed its mountains that is incredibly toxic patriarchal this is what you do nine times out of ten for a lot of people that this is what they do people have lives outside and I think it makes for a more creative people to know all the food in the midnight common goal every single night to get an exhibition will probably show waldholtz whatever G. so I think it just feels incredibly punishing to the same quarter they set to use for example %HESITATION you know don't have any elderly relatives will be a United supporter okay I rolled a spam so RuPaul who needs additional support to lower you know but I think it's really interesting as well in terms of gender it's really just wanna go head dresses the only time I read read women's magazines and you see the man and should be done about the scenes of let Justin if you and then you see the women in the field and this is always my res with so many children or not mom didn't doesn't have children still lots late and I was always very mindful of the writer and journalist Caitlin Moran he said she was at the B. nas when he helping children no but when the option good option in an interview just about musical writing what happened and she kind of fell is this a way of people she saves me when he couldn't get lost when you gonna make space for a bloke to common to inhabit the space inside the box really interested or when you're going to make space for the next woman or person who can become pregnant take your space for that little bit of time so they can have their like you know a couple of years of a career and a lady like fade into obscurity this is miss I think there's another aspect of this as well which is the idea that will so openly and comfortably ask you such personal questions about your decisions on your body the idea that it's okay to ask somebody that acts I mean it's not too I do believe it is anyway and less you personally know the more you you know have a logical reason to be asking that question you wouldn't say someone so what's going on with your bottles okay tell me about your loans to you do you don't I mean you wouldn't ask someone a personal question about the body at the end of the day it's not just about your lifestyle it's not just about you'll would call you'll eat like Hugh you also also proxy choosing to allow your body to do something that's so personal the fact that we can ask someone a question about having a child and that's okay in your place of work someone could say to you %HESITATION you're going to have children but you wouldn't save them so %HESITATION did you have sex last night do you know what I mean it's not actually they're completely links like why is that okay and other things on okay in the is something about the way that we just expect that women are going to make those decisions and actually you know this is such a multitude of reasons why someone might not want to have children who might not be able to have children and actually asking someone a question like that you don't know who you're sending offering potentially you don't even know if they were signs that gender that they have it this semester you could be talking to someone who actually talked to a child because there's so many reasons why those conversations shouldn't be forced upon us we can choose to have them and have them in the in the environment that we want to with the people that we want to have them with but the idea that those questions should be false promises just seems bogus to me %HESITATION saved from my enemies who is not celebrity who was asked in an interview well I have favorite position walls of Simeon this expedition have responsible CEO I was like yeah yeah even just not questions like why was she even assign an interview it was a radio interview Stephen ask Amanda you know on Facebook when like I mean I don't enjoy Facebook you don't like things and I still have one for some reason but you know what it's like your Facebook memories I thought it was such an after memory for today it was from a couple years ago and it was a status that I put up I was like on the eve of international women's day I waited with bated breath to see if one of the top human rights lawyers in the world would just be spoken to about her amazing accolades as a human rights lawyer but no they asked her how her marriage was going with George Clooney only god's amount Clooney is amazing she's an amazing human rights lawyer what are you doing why are you asking about it what's it like to be married to the most handsome man of the world who cares nobody asked him what's it like to be married to one of the top human rights lawyers in the world that's right when we talk about it in this kind of lands it is so crazy that this is the norm it's because I'm the big talk I always feel very on the outside because it's almost like it's just not possible to me because it's not something I've ever been to I know loves books my response whether it's from family friends strangers della is always polite and also and so set up so you'll change it to nine come on no why can't you just have a definite answer %HESITATION pretty certain most often I don't think that needs to be fit to face %HESITATION bus but it's very very frustrating and I feel like in terms of optimism and continuing the conversation and some option and looking over the narrative you just have to keep questioning %HESITATION I guess being not arrested Patel indignities views to people because they suddenly the questions are going to keep on communities opinions also live on the cost of this technology shift opinions of concern conscription down because that's the only way forward with these things I just wanted to see if there was anything else that Poland wanted to act any thoughts on yeah probably if he just a quick thought on the interrogations over pregnancy and parenthood and so on one difficulty is being interrogated so much and make she wonder I don't know what my reasons are any more for making a decision one way or another because I'm not sure how you want to talk to me I have anymore so that's just a really quick point of mine that I suppose it's a nice opportunity to say that I suppose on the issue of collaboration and hopefully the speak see what we're talking about more broadly as well I just thought of it the podcast is a nice example of that because for me personally I've been trying to transition from somebody he analyzes culture to somebody he produces culture on this podcast is a way of trying to do both at the same time so it straddling these different identities I started it for me to see can I do this but also as is happening status the reading of the thing is I wanted to be able to use that to platform other people so this is a really nice collaborative effort that I hope will be the first of many more to come so thank you all so much so it took by lifting each other up putting each other out for me and just being a part of that's really nice thank you offer to sing it right now it is so wonderful wonderful work do you have any thoughts on that means the things I've talked about %HESITATION this lovely to be here and something to talk about I am not responsible maybe I'll get pregnant I thought the food this is nothing but it's normal for me but today and all is non normal is tending quality right so asking woman yeah why do I do I still none this question do you remember the last time someone asked you about whether or not you would be able to live there is a Helen to being asked about to Linda along again R. E. yeah I'll listen being asked this question is my house is my thing is none of your business how does it make you feel if someone asks you do you want to get married only very annoying on this question until six while this is being so feel like this is the beginning of something to be continued I think maybe that's yes maybe that's why we can go from there you've been listening to audio visual cultures this me Paula Blair Rachel Grech Claire Murphy Morgan Carolina hand Jessica Bennett Jenny McDermott's and Caroline this episode was produced by Rachel Breck recorded by Paula Blair and reach a brick an edited by Paul the player the music is common ground fair to licensed under a creative Commons noncommercial three point zero attribution and is available at the SEC mixer don't work episodes are released every other Wednesday subscribe on your podcast app so you never miss any release we can't currently cover the costs of hosting but the fill back catalogue can be fined on my you tube channel if you search for P. A. prior and it's also linked patrie on on the episode PH of audio visual cultures DOT wordpress dot com if you can contribute funding to continue this work regular donations to the leper at pay dot com forward slash PP a player for one of two nations to pay pal dot me forward slash PP a prior are hugely appreciated be part of the conversation with AP cultures post on Instagram and Davey cultures on Facebook and Twitter thank you so very much for listening caption next time

Audiovisual Cultures episode 29 – The Miseducation of Cameron Post automated transcript

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This is Audiovisual Cultures, the podcast examining different aspects of sound and image-based cultural production and their broader contexts and potential impact. I'm the host and creator Paula Blair. This week Andrew Shail and I have a post-screening discussion of The Miseducation of Cameron Post and issues around religious gay conversion therapies and women and marginalized groups working in the film industry. If you would like to be part of the conversation, I'll be back at the end with contact details and ways you can support the podcast and building up the website. For now, enjoy the discussion.

<AS> So Dr Blair, apparently, you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 

<PB> If you're a man. What about women, what should they do? 

<AS> They should be lain with. we should be dealing with there's a list of about whether if you're right outside of town you don't get put to death if you raped inside a tiny but in a nothing specifically about same sex marriage with the ladies so what if we just watched this seeing the Miseducation of Cameron post I felt quite an emotional time what's not such a well made film beautifully made really solidly written array pox upon us I thought it's got quite a lot of joy and then I made it quite difficult things going on I feel like probably not care enough to really do it justice at the moment but let's see how I would go on I think before we start off the floor what state I was feeling like it might be a bit more of the Sirius version of but I'm a cheerleader which is a film that came by in nineteen ninety nine and Miseducation of Cameron post was made in the past couple of years released in twenty eighteen sacks in nineteen ninety three so there's a lot of political stuff going on that will need to get into later afternoons just before we get into this and I think but I'm a teenage readers Watson directed by Jimmy Buffett it's more of a comedy where the main character Magen is seventeen she's a cheerleader she goes to prom she has a boyfriend she's the perfect lawns beautiful the ideal home coming queen Arshi supposed debate that's why everybody's trying to gather up to eight Bucks her parents suspects but she's a lesbian and she's never really thought about this before she has a boyfriend she's cheerleaders just on all the right things and scare quotes but our parents just suspected she's not quite early enough but she's performing on these things so they sent her to the account I'm trying to remember it's been a while since I've seen it when I read up again but it seems to be more a psychological thing I can't remember if it was religious or not so we might need to track that but she gets sent to a camp that similar to the kind of conflict somewhere in that sense okay get the gay artist her I'm not when she realizes she actually is gay and she falls in love with one of the other girls fire we've been in these situations that's find out if the director or music had seen a Serbian film but you can have three makes a very felt because this is a situation where the two phone calls the other is both it's going to be something on anyway which is an idea that seems to be sort of a gay conversion automatically going to fail because we do need to get a little same sex attraction together same sex environments tend to warm relations we'll show you okay then put in a regime of night time inspections which involves running for state but that of course conference and extends to address the violence of course they end up bonding over I think it's a sign of the times probably thought that was quite right to be done and but I'm a cheerleader and it was sort of just you know quite like way of saying some people are different and it's a really fun premise requires Watson and there is the need to file isn't it she said person that Megan Megan Natasha Leone I'm not sure if it's not right K. D. balance when she falls for and they get together and stuff she is quite apart from this has come from very different backgrounds I think Americans so it's not kind of actually fights mostly comedy to see quite a nineteen per month and that's it the answer today is a situation where as with the Miseducation of Cameron post have a good time and one of the main differences is that she has fallen for a short while to love to see me come into it because you know what it is to teenagers on the hormones are going nuts hi all I can think of a sex so she and her best friends start having a sexual relationship they both have boyfriends and I have to go to prom with seven they don't really seem to you don't get the impression and the scenes where they're together that there's anything they didn't already discussed that that's just happening and it's consensual and they're enjoying it and they take any opportunity to count explore each other expressing they fail and they don't really seem to think of themselves as gay they don't really seem to have got to place further exploring what that means they're just enjoying being together and it feels very natural and then of course there discovered and made to feel unnatural and there's quite a big fall light from the common consensus god's promise by her she's brought up by her because her parents died when she was young the family's very religious man her best friend estimate she goes to Bible camp where they're already big differences are rather her arching religious connotation and I think one of the main points that the film is making is that the people running the town house all the best intentions I really believe that they're helping people and I think that's the scariest band that comes up action Feldman I wasn't expecting that status but one of the parts of it it's going along fairly properly and then comments trying to just yes but then one of the other inmates one of the disciples as they call in but really there and man most of my life for that choice and by the time line I'm not light safe and mark he thought it was too many while but his father has rejected him he says you're still too feminine I come top on my hiatus he has a break time tries to castrate themselves well it's well it's not rare but when they talk he took his penis I thought this possibility so I want to make it possible castration another one might be that well he just wants to yeah he doesn't have any control and possibly talk the simple basic as a sexual organ incredibly well done how to tie it all right it's actually more three hi the other disciples hi it affects them and the different ways that they react to this I don't really see much of them this happens and it's the follow up on them precipitating event says that breaks the yeah yeah during the event because we it's made clear that the marginal closing and that means that the agents of the inmates great sign before he does it doesn't moment when mark is shown yeah which highlights a construction site today it's not it's not a conviction is actually a complex in several different ways and one of them is that it just says black is white says when I am weak I am strong it's just a way of saying exactly and I think the struggle and his face down on the ground showing how strong is pressed and then what's the name dear all the stuff next one for twenty my foot when you come down that's the action of a slave another slave interactions and she has a shaving the man's head and strong Harris gorgeous long acting he's residing up secure first because his father says that what he has is a weakness anything my weaknesses my strengths it's great and powerful C. and it was quite a lot of cross cutting back and forth in time between a group therapy session playing night and Cameron waking up having heard noises commotion on the car going off and are going to see what was going on and discovering about all over the bathroom alone in my house for the past ten days and was gone for a week okay I'll wait Thursday this Thursday ten reasons why this is that we live together I thought that was obvious okay so you've been gallivanting we can turn the needed to be in Spain when you're alone in the house any noise my goodness you start thinking yeah and when you wake up and you just heard a big noise there's the simplest conjecture because the big news just had money in the eight weeks in a row out of the big things happening in particular is there was this thing happened last year where some people basically back to the house because it was only after about ten seconds of ever look up I'm definitely empathize with Cameron you have to get up but I know we just heard yup that was the last known large sense of reserve something but so we have a disintegration is when it becomes apparent before it becomes apparent but it's not unless the kids do seem to be just rolling with it yeah teenagers what is going on is what parents do to assist I don't go to those to us we can find I would not be physically abused while yes and we do occasionally do things like karaoke and going out to musical concerts will be can affect the enjoyment of listening to music and and some do even seem to benefit from the group so it is not safe that's fine that's fine but then the moment where I suddenly becoming anymore this is actually it came late in the film there was a moment that was going on with them yeah but that's how it works because it's a slow dripping tap justice so chipping away at something and then there's this tipping point where you know that actually this is unacceptable it's a beach and calling it an investigator has to come after markets harden south and has been hurt by this system not easy when really it's his parents his father that still not trying to do it as father lawns still not good enough so that's why it's a comparison with but I'm a cheerleader may be eliminated because this film doesn't have comments read out the relevant Bible verses but what it does do is make it this is a religious camp do you have a particular Christian justification for doing the mention it they say that they need to identify as the sexual yeah Christine you count in this discussion to several countries have about even really revealing description amount and what does this come into play even got I think I think this but really I don't think I did the solutions to different space I think specifically practices Marcos is quite happy cafe in singing and that sort of thing thank you testament date you know it was not the case %HESITATION Methodist yeah take messages inside five you'd have to sort of cost or that he would be ready to rock concerts or anything that they're not going to Christian rock concerts and missing the Christian rock comments are allowed to listen to the breeders amazing bands but she's not like to listen to them actually when I look into the band was in town nine they came up as while yeah Christensen another band yeah I just got a Christian band but that isn't a Christian band that one second this because I knew all that sort of thing fifteen years ago but I have not remembered any of my musical knowledge told but I was wondering if there was any connection with readers with anybody that was sent to the basic principle of Christian culture and sense of balance prices of fiction using encryption works seek to identify themselves as Christian is taking existing fixed to the Christian version of it they make the effects of bonds made up for the thing as well but they were all named in veggie but it didn't manage to write and dine do seem to be around their website because while your dot com while many uncontrolled understrength presidency of pleasure your noon rookie show to visit we support him order I think that they might not this is from their website we support open borders we support the rights of people of color queer and trans people miss them as people with disabilities and anyone else whose fundamental rights are under attack you support a woman's right to chase we support public education and a car access to affordable health care we support and anti mass incarceration we support freedom of religion freedom of the press freedom of speech and match neutrality they believe in science and affirmed that climate change is real you can still believe Lawrence of course of Christians we check so yeah the friend is pretending that a democratic at the very least if we're talking in American politics the couple days democratic if they are playing in the film Christopher it is very different from their own reason mentioned the comparison with is that there's an option when you do something this is going the religious basis that's a bit of an announcement will never going to touch it but what's interesting done in consultation come versus coming home free position shot process which were the religious stuff is one of my number one and most of it is talking to your one on one therapy therapy therapy as well sure this process which rules on religious yeah but they nonetheless make sure that I have some things going we've been listening to a great start yeah saying that this is not a criticism for students here to look at it to criticism of the misrepresentation misinterpretation of Christian doctrine and I'm thinking okay she kind of has to say about you know I'm endorsing this phone which is completely criticizing Christianity but there were moments that were thought this for which is very quickly going one woman went did that was because someone remote access to so you have those moments where you feel like you're pretending to those the moments where you really need to leave she goes to the gravity faced yeah description of how the idea of faith is mechanisms yeah one these two teenagers can see straight through another area Russell this is specifically consent is that pastor Rick and his sister the service returning to really understand the psychology of census and survey of cinder certainly take approach to how they're going to get everyone to not function so they have this pretending to understand the mechanism causing what they deem to be a problem I'm not pretending to understand of course turned out to be just a fiction as it sounds the idea of being tight lipped tending to an extent on several different owners one of the and of course when you go into a room from you can just so many questions but I think that almost certainly somebody went to anyone telling veterans they were standing at the brink of there was a book that was written most destructive could coax faith healing and something something something but this is big things it could be ten seven facing three during this workshop scene when it comes to talking about the decision that going and that's this movie roles I think criticizing Christine conversion therapy six the nature of the service it might seem they were trying to do is go some people but it's kind of okay because it's just aren't working well the talking cure version two point three the earlier versions of gay conversion therapy enough in this country is thinking if you it's a people who've been through it Univision was electric convulsive until it gradually shaded into something which was a little bit but of course it's common specifically says it's it was a decision made much in this we could just share this with someone which is when people need into a vision therapy and efficient it is even at the hands of the NHS trying to get people to for example yeah we can get somebody to associate smoking with with any of those they want something to consider in that sense it can still be done but conversion therapy with six rounds we be aware that if somebody can send texts during right you can you will get instant convinced that they are evil in so doing take the choice away they are brainwashing there's a woman or a thumbs up for grabs she gonna kind of celebrate a moment here where she gets with the program she stops initial resistance action really becomes part of it I need for just a moment a shirt come running for a couple of scenes that are the kind of montage music everybody should Cameron seemingly becoming more integrated into this culture where everyone keeps saying that same sex attraction is the results of problems for their upbringing okay maybe this film is going to go that way because it went a couple of steps in that direction to go just look this situation is for several reasons they have a sense of community I have a sense of the people taking responsibility for and they have something promising to remove them from social contact even though the search conflict is caused by the system and that by removing from a company in very good not talking about short duration and lends well we need to because that camera was fitted with unflinching but it wasn't entry set I noticed it was a lot of it was quite tight spaces on it was number one right up in the sixties when they so it felt like it was from their state that's what it felt like to me in the sex seems to be so early on yeah with one of the school as it was happening first one is when this happens in the conflict between Cameron Kohli consent to sex between coming and curly show in very read each other and then later one is FOR calling again between her and currently is that's one way they seem to be in somebody's bedroom back at someone's house before she became an inmate stroke I can charge for each other for short very close so but then later on in the film the way that the person's behavior seems to go what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom so I'm going to do lots of standing back and watching without popping around from one job to the next ones that comes up next even when it seems like it's time for the show later on from those extreme close ups share this with you shows it's very brief shots then the common becomes a lot less interested in terms I think that might have been very blessed the firm going maybe she does carry with it last it wasn't necessary static it's not like it was perhaps with a lot of the shots but it was maybe the operator was in one place in the team was Ashley Connor and actually it's a very woman had the same site she held the camera and replacing the following the actions of their site men's fashion right following the actors taking days about it's never increases it's never fight scenes bodies never craziness resting just this is this is teenagers getting in on trading on their prices giving us enough we need to see it because we need to understand their experience actually normalized yeah normalizing items strip everything on things and then they need at the moment right the box of callers single bands I know it's very normal never intrusive you might see on a because there the other from South for example yeah it's happening explains that there's this Christmas time it's just and it's not and it's not for our pleasure helping fashion and we just happened to be went missing at the scene in which Cameron wakes up from is that the gods promise kind she wakes up in the middle of the room Erin is leaning over and saying are you okay okay you seem to be having a dream and cameras yeah I'm fine and then because they're so physically close price just give it a five sixty three teenagers thank you know it seems like an Aaron goes for Cameron Cameron just responds because she wants to have sex that's why I got it I actually comes in the conversation afterwards that common a lot way to word sorry and then some to the verge of going it's not getting people when I however if you're not in this particular case he's being told that they must twenty I don't gonna be cool yes and so we'll have a bit of sex with just about anything interested doing that scene by kemet it just sat without moving and I think they have to do a thing you guys okay through the lines and see so much of someone standing up trust me in the distance I think it would count as a medium to medium plus it just do something the bristles very teenage something under cruise things nobody stripping off all the time the sum total of people's bodies one from the summit of the teenage aspect of what the people well it remains in my mind the Clinton yes but the kind that you mean that the sign on the car so at the end comment on the friends she signed the papers he signed and signed G. and Fonda his parents shouldn't have collision the call today and because when they're happy means for which is nowhere father is because our mother was then that'll but see tiny little flashback to tiny Jian with her mom to you guys at the same time I had a commune and joins in nineteen thirty eight she's got a percentage because she says that she was in a car accident so she was presenting the actor is disabled more point I think because it's where she Sasha stuff she grooms weeds right now it's because they're allowed to go for high growth we don't know where but she also they managed to smuggle tracer themselves so just like pop that they're not and just three things that are not owned by the house and disco twenty smuggle some internal Hey but I noticed that concession interface there is a person of color and ace for publication so you know there's a lot kind of normalizing that even as white as well as heterosexual is one thing %HESITATION plus should be so that we can never have anyone plan or whatever can I come in anyway despite a month come on that's what to feel like a hero and I think there's a nice connection so they end up on the roadway day managed to escape and they just stay at night they have a small encounter with he's very important because he himself has been to this conversion therapy there's a discussion he said sternly Eric this is he was her again a bank he's a gay man they forced him to take it anymore and they normally start we need a radio noise yeah to make it clear that I don't mean what I'm saying he's pretty traumatized after what's happened mark is going through a lot of stuff but he's trying to suppress it because normality night until he's trying to do that and they're having a very already back because %HESITATION getting ready to hike to the way Chad at this point they don't know what they're going to they're going this is a very interesting same and again become a set back from the table and just observe it all plays out it's a problem because when the three of them get up and they had also continues to observe right just sitting there eating that was my favorite yeah can't and you think this is posturing is the possible of this place one of the two people who are managing it on telling people that it's wrong to even think of themselves because no one's gonna send this is somebody he's killing himself and a victim of yeah just in case get conversions are people after when you walk out the door conflict just because everyone up the service is somebody who himself has just created a conflict recent challenges to the brainwashing is been three who has nine thirty anyway teenagers have realized mark having if you were supposed to be caring for them for the three sisters normal character just sitting there eating cereal just lasting three of the teenagers and without suspecting the reason that rucksacks yeah it's a slightly redeeming moment for one of the two people running this kind of because he's the one who's also thinks he just said that was very sweet I kind of think that short was supposed to but he just kept and right after on sometimes you can it wouldn't surprise me because there's a lot of I can see him thinking about stuff yeah he's got this moment of solitude but he's still performing not version of right so he's done you know any state spiel which is basically just be humans super super friendly by the %HESITATION things that they do please ask he's encouraging about there's a really nice part when you have a conversation with a friend and she said that %HESITATION on your recommendation watch young Frankenstein finally the most I've laughed in years they do the album okay and it's really really sweet because they need the cell connection he is one of them more than these anybody out and she's a really lovely person and she's a very caring person and so is he acts very well and as you say he's a beast vanished it shows you that he's human he takes joy in and this is the same person Hey on my first meets him he's going through a hard five which is it's really sinister and he's the one thank he's checking them with last night every night so it's quite sinister surveillance and he is the one and acting out surveillance Easter mailing them all the time but then you got there very sweet the end result this is just a guy and he suffering as much as I yeah my mom was trying to do one on one therapy with common officer Montez observer calendars making this up as you go along when he starts crying a very important moment in the film sure the it's not the people who are dominating the people who don't know themselves the mistaken and so we have Rick himself being a victim and the media because of this day this is somebody who has social reasons for one she's made the mistake because when there's a part where mark is on the floor and after trying this is the name she's trying to I'm not going to get a for him and she's going to help and I'm reading plays and she's going to the talking cure stuff it's about discussing how these kids feel about it and that can help this is the insidious is that it's clearly indicates it to be a political thing but as always Freudian stuff down on top of it as a way of giving it this continent legitimacy means to help people psychologically you can go okay for the breakthrough today because you cried out fuel resentment about the way the you've got the maximum for example and then you can pretend that the Christianity that helped it was just a listening just asking your question so the way that that was a great way of indicating that this stuff takes purchase it takes hold on the people who instruments because it appearing to be understanding the pain to make a difference the end when the kids are scared they have a little right they have this diagram Atlanta family you can only see the tip of the iceberg see the nine tents on the journey sites that's why the J. it's one of those examples of caring to understand this because I see things is to be honest but to be honest I guess and the service is the extractions it must be something to do with the fact she's an orphan and she's reading the sports she's a runner under court law actually American we must call it tomorrow U. S. and she's wanting this which apparently is a real thing this is always with sandy Campbell for it's like the reinforcing gender stereotypes that women are they're like hiking everybody this is gender politics being very neatly noticed in this firm is claiming that somehow this is some sort of technical mandate having cancer which is the richest female sports anchors we see which is and that way I can't agree apparently aerobics delivering the icebergs I need you to go they've been involved in these rituals because of that time at this camp and this is them creating their own rich it's a way of showing you don't need to rely on any just during the money's and then we see them as a leader in the day because chains joining them in the evening pickup truck on the back windows is because nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety four transaction coming out or is it okay no it was it's lifted from the nineteen ninety two United States okay how the November nine to serve I'm on Clinton he took over from the bush that makes a lot of sense and that it would be an old sticker it's a very clear statement of the things that the person is a Democrat so there is see if I can the pharmacist thinking if they can hitch hike how are they going to pick them up is it going to be played because the state wait for a California state thing to come back for the closing arguments and go stickers but our information for your sticker interesting when the film was in production it was before and twenty sixteen election cast for campaigning for Hillary Clinton another action Hillary Clinton one in the interview we the last time I made a mistake so they were having a party night she said they had a bit of a party that night they went to bed many things that we had a retention being expressed because she and the news comes turning red because the electoral college system makes sense very fascinating that way and the reality that day and I've seen plenty five years right now many twenty five years ago we're still fighting to see hang during his administration because of trump but more because my president it's even more important trump because I might as a child okay the person sign in mail that does sort of therapy at least has been made legal in the UK and yeah national level it's not some states with you know this is fantastic in several ways including church state separation in office including encroachments on the Jersey separation so I think and also the fact that sound has a very woman had we are still not and can never making it before in the interview but they were making it for lines broke when a lot of the campaign women and found a very generally getting a lot of so this is quite how to Desiree French cheese ingredient Americans thinking about social this is quite mixed class and Sasha was need to check this but I'm pretty sure this is right in Andrea Arnold's American honey so again another woman film director she finds fascinating on a date during spring break you know so this is somebody who wasn't a professional actor had no aspirations bang actor right I think this kind of found a star likely green grass he seems to be a very intelligent man right she's very passionate about this issue because I have okay conversion because I think it is no he they actually should they were terrified about coming thank you the company can explore they aren't answering with three of them without an anti and and on the back of a pickup truck the American rose is that all yeah it's one of those long shots on them it's an amazing but thank they're on the back of a pickup truck there's this movement that there's something static appointed time close on the three of them shot of America going past the Katy crossing they talked to talking about guns as if they regard America as a place where it's okay or they might be just near enough supporters it's hard to know exactly what the reasoning is there but it seems like it might be a more natural thanks to Stephen with Iran the nearest liberal an American honey essentially road in many ways it's a unit that and it's amazing and so my I like that I think with the American it's about freedom constrictions the uncertainty is scaring us the freedom if either the sixteen seventeen what can they really do this it goes I'm shocked where sort of writing and please and thank I suppose it's a bit like a graduate in the top of the box exciting amor running all together and it's miscreants by the shop and style and their fees start to drop at the very least transition to begin the relaunch of the graduate what is not the loss of the from the really really happy to at least it's something as drastic they're quite enjoying actually considering at the moment the teenagers thank you the resource as well something on eight times but there is just not yes a year and a certainty that what they're going to be might not be any there is something there yeah I just thought that was very do you think that they listen to you that's a base person so they got the visual table of breeders couple of times in the also watch shop from the at the breeders the same one that didn't take it away but also I have not even a rebellion they're just having a moment of fun and they're not saying anything bad but there's a little bit of the game with the radio station and station when there's a group I think for example and they put on a different radio station and it's four non blondes what's up and they're doing aren't staying in leading the singing and dancing just this moment press your weight and there is one of the characters ASAP because she loves singing and singing gospel choirs well for one of the other girls in her hair and turn yourself into this space because she sent to please get in singing with Canadian this is worth noting that women rock stars on a woman is fronting the band didn't even go to say yes to find one that and it just feels nice none of the normal line hi people failing high people explore their sexuality as teenagers but normalizing that women do that sort of thing as well women are stars and pop stars women the scene where rex breaks dying for example in the one one she comforts him Eckstein and she's the one to gather one company because as a human to human she feels for him just one moment when she calls around and she stopped posting she hides under DASCOM's and around trying to do this to help setting is you just have some moment not with me while I at the end of that strong when I come in says goodbye saying it formally coming up very fine I'm going to see you're not aware of the situation like most teen movies that were difficult I missed its dominant messages and your own coming of age were involved in efforts on I think in a personal way I find really upsetting and I talked quite a few friends last summer was very religious yes I've had a lot of gay friends disowned or threatens with because they're gay or bisexual I I'm kind of he has when I was a teenager and I was getting out talks from my mom my mom was amazing my mom very gently sets me whatever happens you know if you ever want to feel like you want to bring a girlfriend how may never be scared of thought I don't care and I think that whatever happens finally say I at the time mom I saw because I was thirteen fourteen and just any kind of conversation I got was excruciating but twenty years on nine o'clock and I appreciate that so much because so many of my friends still don't have I'm devastated for them that means because I had some of my class and I ended up not needing a mom like and I have a stated that so many friends you can switch your money with someone else's name why would I give her away why would I give up on my I felt very grateful and I don't think less of setting right is that it shouldn't be that way it should just be something they can you know wanting what's best for the kids and not what's best for them and then it's pretty difficult because anything obviously feels like she is trying to do the right thing you could even argue that Lydia the council thinks that she's doing the right thing for these kids you can bring somebody to the alternative is worse than you can get someone to do a really horrible things come on the solidarity of empathy she sighed I have never I'm here to say her name but it's Jennifer Jennifer how they I know her and there's something a little bit Meryl Streep about her but she's obviously not mastery because she's twenty years younger and the accent the soaring me because I don't think I've ever seen edging in English is something she's very famous for pride prejudice having so many you should be playing this role because she was the this year's stuff but she has since where she's turned on you feel like violence could erupt from her at any time but it never does her violence a verbal violence is tying up Adam's hair and saving it all standing on very gently standing on marks back just really hold her face where she does not despite just holes in there for me I think it's going to be she's running yeah which is a little more mental your back yeah but I think at some point she's not really pressing it should that's enough to get a message of control and keep them there and then when he starts to rise you know he pitches against he backs off and then come then she decided she comes Mister Spock there is a potential for violence but its internal violence and she's an acting on these kids as internal they're internalizing the styles she's giving them it's very very difficult they argue against somebody sorry well meaning but they actually are a few things I feel like I would struggle to have this kind of conversation with somebody I think I'd be interested actually to talk about it when you talk about and she's also very religious and this was something she had a very hard time she managed to find a church said except this is something you gonna journey as well as not really accepting thank %HESITATION that she would burn in hell for eternity because of her choice she made her not being able to explain that I have made a choice if I could choose I would not be yet it myself but I this is when we have these conversations but I'd be interested to know what somebody like this that's the film about an event that was feasible in nineteen ninety three it might be seem to be saying Hey look what we used to do this is still happening now well I think that's the point of making so I'm wondering why he was upset now once explained it was so the kids wouldn't have mobile phones yeah and isolation from the outside world she said it's a misinterpretation of the Bible gets you to think that someone might be going to hell but don't to specific individuals if your mother your friends found a church that says it's okay to be getting this from the church okay with this regarding yeah well that's in the city towards the replacement of Christianity was looking to try to silence did he regard them as the charges I have to go to you when I was a kid would not regard them as Christians a name to them because I wasn't Presbyterian Methodist and then I went so that was fine I recognized a lot of the singing and rectifying is guitar Direc it's hard okay fine tables having I always seem to have taken a bit of a challenge funky eighties so there's a lot going on this %HESITATION really recommend watching is beautifully made it's so well written directives found matter dates there was one point four this feels a bit slow but that lasted about three seconds I have no substantial criticisms of this active participants I thank immediate active man I think it's ready right saying I think it's really important to come to see I'd be interested in our people thank Saturday or that it's clear from I don't know he direct I mean I think it's for everybody but I wonder if it's more for patches actual people for religious take for them to say to say the fact that this stuff has some people live their lives anybody's game I thought maybe if somebody is be helpful or might scare them I don't know it is going there are social consequences because society has ideas about what you should and shouldn't be aware of that coming out as a matter of making knowledge public in a particular social environment which may include people who don't want that knowledge to exist and I do wonder if this is from the ghosts the kids can escape this is for Mister president how serious gay conversion therapy as well that's why I wonder if it's a happy ending that final send it to me is that they call freedom by on the road that they're on the run in secure maybe it's whatever the American dream C. interpretation not just me great and come at a price to get on the road to get away adult they are very young there's just so many question marks hanging right so I think that's why I shop along if it had abandoned after a few seconds or you know actually just something very interesting it runs for the lines of a song only then the song and that song is non Titanic your diet adding police car in the countryside the site as an audience member you got the discomfort because the music is going along Hey this is happening and then the music we're not saying you feel like you need and he's got three or four words so watching them and I feel and actually I'm noticing that the cars being first but they're looking backwards I don't know how to feel anymore and and close the credit is an indirect way of saying that moving into a situation some Japanese I think I might have said it moreover yeah because I have no sense of something if I make a film that going to be so in your face by James comments from every message repeated eight times for me I guess I'd like something like this maybe then just a quick note on the title of the family because this is something we today was a day of Miseducation that thank and interpretation being and better people I am the Miseducation board decided well this is who you are unless it's what comes out change they're they're wrong we need to so hurry into you know there's ways we can I think in spite of what she had to say in saying that the situation I miss reading the shirt that or she could she could first thing and also think it fosters restaurant I think the film is implicitly saying educating people using this particular book as a source of knowledge is failing to educate and you can make looks like it's getting them X. in point of you may find number one two or three saying that server because your notes on because do you have respect religious freedom and if you're critical and anyway anything this religion we're talking it rather than just raising some issues around an idea be very careful %HESITATION raising issues right we have a right to do something see all the things that we have come to this movie and we've done inside eighteen minutes living is according to this over seventy three hours of free space just think of the to get involved and to keep up with what's happening we are not AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook the website is audio visual culture style wordpress dot com every episode is ranked on the podcast PH and thanks to study skills videos are on the site as well the email as audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com please to consider making a small monthly pledge on Petri on dot com to help sustain and proof and widen access to the podcast on the other educational resources I make thanks for listening sharing and supporting caption next time

Happy Pride!

It’s Pride Month 2021 and here are our episodes so far that most involve relevant themes and issues:

29. The Miseducation of Cameron Post

Released 3 Oct 2018. Paula Blair and Andrew Shail have a post-screening discussion of The Miseducation of Cameron Post (dir. Desiree Akharan, 2018, BBFC cert. 15) about a teenage girl in the USA who is sent to a gay conversion camp. Involves topics such as religion, emotional abuse and self-harm. View with enabled captions.

34. Bohemian Rhapsody

Released 12 Dec 2018. Andrew Shail and Paula Blair view and discuss the Queen and Freddie Mercury biopic Bohemian Rhapsody (dir. Bryan Singer, 2018, BBFC cert.  12A), Queen’s music and the band’s connection to film culture. Short  excerpts from the song ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ are used to mark separate  parts of the discussion, and it and its significance in the film are discussed. There are references to sexuality, drug use, illness and  some swearing in the episode. View with enabled captions.

36. Hard Craft

Released 9 Jan 2019. Paula Blair talks to artists Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming about their Hard Craft exhibition in Vane gallery, Nov – Dec 2018. View with enabled captions.

39. Mary Queen of Scots

Released 20 Feb 2019. Film doctors Paula Blair and Andrew Shail discuss historical drama Mary Queen of Scots (dir. Josie Rourke, BBFC cert. 15, 2018). With references to violence, religion, sexuality, gender fluidity and women in power. Spoilers abound. View with enabled captions.

62. Community, Collaboration & Courage

Released 18 March 2020. Special episode recorded for International Women’s Day 2020 featuring Paula Blair, Rachel Brook, Claire Murphy-Morgan, Ciara Lenihan, Jess Bennett, Caroline and Jenni McDermott. View with enabled captions.

86. Art & Community with Clinton Kirkpatrick

Released 2 March 2021. Artist Clinton Kirkpatrick talks about working across a range of styles and media and initiating remote community art projects. View with enabled captions.