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Audiovisual Cultures episode 108 – 2021 End of Year Guest Showcase automated transcript


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hello and welcome to see this twenty eight twenty one and if you're gassed showcase we made it very another year we had some really fantastic guests here on audio visual cultures through quite the past year whether you've recently joined us or you're just here for the good parts this recap of highlights is free a I'm Paula Blair and in making audio visual cultures I investigate a wide range of areas and audio visual media and the creative industries these include cinema television streaming live performance music audio production and the visual arts and much more anything you can think of that might be considered audio and or visual culture that's what we're in today so the issue has been going since March twenty eighteen and we've covered a lot of topics since then in the past year I've re branded the podcast opened its own dedicated YouTube channel and have been learning more and more ways of making improvements and sign quality editing my performances and interfere and communicator on how to get the show right there and better ways are incredible patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures have been instrumental and supporting all that work and I can keep going but cite them and there are loads of exclusive extras and early releases on pitching on so please stay find a satire and consider giving regular support to sustain and improve this show fires are our hosts a cast have also been tremendous and offering training and tools to facilitate marketing in rage so banks thanks to them as well if you follow AV cultures part on the socials you may have seen this year Spotify rocked three which we learned we've been dying noted in twenty two two countries in the past year which I'm really bowled over by I am I'm just so grateful anyone's listening a toll but the idea that strangers and countries I've never been to your last thing not so exciting and I'm really grateful massive thanks to everyone where ever and higher for your last name we've got more great things coming your way and twenty twenty two so I really hope you stick with us for the rest of this episode we're going to go through some highlights of twenty twenty one we hit the ground running and January with two fascinating discussions with filmmaker Justin McAleese and urban planner missed office Shareef was both in different ways talking about storytelling hopefully when you get on sat a lot of your decisions are already made because you've made them with the producer the director or the writer whoever happens to be in your you know what you're trying to accomplish and I mean really that's what it comes down to it's not like oh what do I want to do in this situation that's like very forced tear sort of concept you want to be like what serves the story what will help the director accomplished the most amount of information in the least amount of time it really that's what you're trying to do David Fincher American director has a quote you know like basically my job as directors deciding what information to give out when and that's really what directing is about and and by proxy that's what cinematography is about is putting people with a sense of what the context is what the vital information about a frame is in where to leave their eyes and how to feel about it so consciously without even attempting to tell them why do you feel about a certain way with the actors of the dialogue or the action or any of that stuff just like you know one second and you're like oh I get what this is when when I was young and now may bind to hold but anyway so I I'm listening to Ted talk on YouTube I was very inspired by that and it what makes it Ted talks special is the way they tell the story it's not like a lecturing university or a TV program that's why it's so special and I was like okay but how about mixing this kind of story is and then the plot casting and urban planning and also L. like after work are you doing I am part of statics Stockholm team and what we do is like I do content researching medical select co coaching people how they talk and giving feedback about their speech I was trying to combine that not makes a boring lecture and not to like sort of stand up comedy or something you know I want something like as a how white would love to listen to we all know that's it why we like TV shows and seriousness as a storytelling like it's art and culture is about storytelling so I wanted to do with the podcast says something like this like this format is not going to be like a feeling that you're in the police station like a question and answer you know like okay what's your name what do you do what's your project because there are many puts us like this and when you hear when you listen to them you you feel sometimes bad for the kids to be back home but give him some time to briefing notes express himself or something like this so I decided and I tried my best to that leave the platform open to the guest because it's not like Mustafa sherry fair podcast it's urbanistic out and ideal for many suggest that people are the storytellers because I'm listening to them and learning I can start my own show and talk but today most urbanised case listening and learning because this is the goal every guest is the storyteller I just leave them to talk just like how you doing now like you just you know leave the flow and that's always a good flow when you give people the the freedom to express themselves and always I don like control so much for the questions just like a main questions and then see what happened because in the end what comes from heart ghost others people's hearts so it says that there is like it and aim why I say the guess is a storyteller because the format of the ports gas is a kind of story to inspire us because the aim in the end it's about us getting inspired by people and hopefully we transform this inspiration to actual action in our offices when we really work with the projects in February I had the great pleasure of connecting with artists and performers Shay Donovan hello we got into some tough topics there was a lot of joy and positivity and her approach to working online during Oct nine part of my philosophy a little bit here has been to kind of resist adapting existing work to the digital space which I see a lot of people do beautifully and I think there's a need for that and that's a great way to exercise practice that that's your you know what you're feeling called to do but I think for me what I've been enjoys creating work specifically within these restrictions like being very intentional about embrace those restrictions and those obstacles and maybe mine them for a different way of making work rather than trying to adapt my normal practice within the constraints of the digital space I've been enjoying creating collaborating in new ways just in fun March was a bumper Munson database three fantastic episodes as well as celebrating the podcasts third anniversary with a special offer on P. Treon and freshening up the branding I had a great time talking with artist Clinton Kirkpatrick then producer towards MMN archer Katrina Michaels I'm production manager tab appeared safe from all duties entertainment followed by filmmakers large hand rakes and Nissan R. A. can here's Clinton toss could train at Debra Larson Nissan talking about creating characters and world building yes it's kind of like for me you know there is a lot of I realized a lot of hard storytelling and even one during the line of my research and my own destinations like all right Bach to your soul G. S. and then within the solar cheap what creation myths are I'm actually in the process of investigating various creation myths that have existed throughout human history in all different cultures what I'm doing is I'm checking pieces of the box you know whether it is modern day creation mess or Egyptian creation myths or whatever creation method is misty slow characters to come into my work I've read this creation myth recently where you these logs all from the sky and they create this ball you marshy area and then from this the first Youmans cute today I'm just like this is the right way you know it is the heart of storytelling heart arts for me that is my work is people look at my work and I'm like what is not or your moderator I listen to it all over the years really care either but it's like I listen to it all but I always think if you take the time any artist we have to see what they're doing to walk to invest it up but certainly for me when you start to investigate what might work as smaller practices there is a whole lot where you know there's a whole lot of world's arms you know hello world see arms there's a lot more still to come you know when we created this to really give it that immersive experience we asked all of our performers not only bring their characters to life but bring their characters to reality in the fact that we asked for Facebook pages to be created or Instagram accounts or linked in or you know we wanted to give them an online presence that our audience could go and find these characters in the real world each of their characters has a website that is dedicated to their characters professional backstory so for those audience members that want to really go down the rabbit hole to really explore their opportunities to find hints of these characters living in the on the internet so and I know between you've got some fun stories of guests that have reached out to you but I want you to speak if you can the creation process of trying to help build this character not just when you are on stage for that hour and a half but that lives in the real world I mean it was a fascinating experience to me because I am used to the rub us %HESITATION for instructing my character based on the clues in the tax and healing back to the technical in this case I'm creating the taxed the text is nearing it's it's very it's a flip of that kind of process but the exciting thing about being engaged in that creation is that you know the material so well my carrot so what's in the box and I can rattle off the drinks menu and like you know when in doubt to give extra Fulda to rely on and I have a lot of fun my car is a mystery themes box so I got to come up with the most terribly punny names such as the George all Mancini on the picture of Dorian gray Bruce Rankin steam %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION bill and I have so much fun and so then I can make a game throughout the show all kind of assigning a signature cocktail to aghast and you know that he's here a lot had to go back to you it's fun and it's it is interesting having online presence with the character of I've had people reach out to me through my character my keys Instagram and I think Jim would leave like they think I am ninety there are elements of me he and Maggie had but I've not bought Tenda musician on the lot I got but it's it but it's really like someone was asking when my next gig was and I was like I mean but we've actually from my apartment that that okay it's funny how it's fabulous it's state like how much they invested in the lead in the wild and I think having those clients to you you know we have like will also %HESITATION connected on social media and things and having this carrot to how those elements as well grounds %HESITATION as a human one of the videos of my characters Instagram is me playing accordion and I haven't you know people reach out to me asking about the accordion which I will always happily talk about you know it's a great way to connect and %HESITATION I find like I did it creates another layer of emotion about it integrates in that technology even beyond the shot we had a really robust writing team when you're first coming up with this I mean we all kind of sat around a table are set into meetings just trying to like nail down the concept nail down the story you know we had thirty plot points that came and went and then the amount of research we have an entire told that talks about all of these libraries these historical libraries that are actual actual places you know they had actual significance in history and we had to pull all of that material just so that we could get back home to the performers so that when they had that fodder to keep pulling from as well but we didn't you know Todd night we we didn't just great this it was such a collaborative effort we were getting materials every day I remember you know our writing team would send us a draft of one scene it while at the same time somebody would send me a draft a character you know like Katrina would send me at the bar menu you know and then the next day somebody else send me a song I think between even wrote an entire song it had a clue it fell by the wayside as we change the gameplay my hustle but I once long and then there's another song that carries with links to another one who's a history teacher %HESITATION and I needed to see that was a pneumonic device about the toll limit and I up it's working credible it's all about last so it's gonna be talking I will I will pay you know and during the pandemic which is been such a time of you know we've all had to go inside of our bubble right a lot of us were missing that creative outlet so I think that pulling in all of these performers and what not to and allowed everybody to find a quick creative outlet in a time where were all very frustrated because we can't live our not our lives as normally as we want right so I don't even think we asked people with some of the stuff that got created you know I just said Hey could you have a little ditty because I think that Maggie you know I think a tree to your character and this other character they know each other and they went to school together or something and next day I have a page long twelve verses of the Ptolemaic empire you know so like it really gave us all a chance to be really creative you know and push the boundaries of how can we keep telling stories in a new imagine of way and just make everybody laughs because everything is so twenty twenty right then we did this D. I. Y. A. thing again with a little more budget this time via %HESITATION worked for an acting school we worked with their students on a movie together based on on their character vicious because we your last and me we are also from the acting department so we could work with that and we are making films we could work with that so the second movie with the together %HESITATION was also on many many festivals and was %HESITATION sorry how do you say and that his English is better than it was discovered it was discovered from a release Emmons and you have to write it really is %HESITATION %HESITATION yes get released in the U. S. yes it's behind bars yeah the Blu ray yes SRS and I'm also I was really proud of that and really happy about it the second movie is about seven girls in the pharmacy and then maybe %HESITATION cherished florist so it's it's kind of fantastical but very very subtle and it was the first time for us that we've worked with a non sambal and those were seven girls who were like in their twenties early twenties early twenties they were just finishing drama school not so easy but it was fun and it was also it for us we learned a lot to work with a big group I work very closely with the actors four of them M. when we were developing Leon I think and you said and I had just started hanging out again and I don't know I I was thinking about how to do a lo fi science fiction project that was still having it was still dreaming about getting into cinemas and making something that that woods translates to a wider audience so I was thinking about how how can I use John ready to do that that was on my mind and then I think we just had a really long conversation about death because that's the fun guy I am I basically just took that conversation which was really long and turned it into a script so that would be these two characters in that center which I think I because Nissan and Leon is not me but that would be a lot of the stuff in that that we had discussed that's how that sort of came about so so so I in that sense worked with Nissan to come up with it all and then %HESITATION for back it means and later permeates actually we started working with this acting school like Nissan said I was a teacher about and I get sort of bored with teaching acting and not doing anything so I started developing characters with the students I had originally planned this was Nissan's idea to to make short films with them so they could use that all the demo reels and and in case of the beckons group we quickly realized all right this is not the short film this is possibly a future and %HESITATION yeah I mean they came up with that characters had different exercises to improvise and to come up with characters intuitively plus with characters that would fit them and would be what they would need in the demo rear to %HESITATION and then what I would have them improvise with each other and come up with scenes and then slowly we would all see all right this is a possible setting like all the characters you came up with would probably do community service at some point they're all pretty antisocial and then we would support the characters and situations together and see how do these incorrect and then we would think all right you too make an interesting committed you'll so let's think about that and I think we had half a year it was really luxurious and our kids bed hobby yelp of just playing around and then I would go and they have seen all the stuff they would have come up with themselves and then I would just read the script according to that and %HESITATION mid was more compressed with the next thing we did with that school with over many ex but it's really similar to it then we may do a web series together also called the acting students we worked a lot with that school to find out projects where we would have them improvise all the dialogue on sets and I would just go okay now that thing you said was funny do that again so yeah from this very close work with the actress the characters and I look I think I mean I like that and I like the results yeah me too we got musical in April with host of the world fusion show Derek Jordan and me session down he's he talked about modeling Siri and lasts an ideal locked on circumstances we used to do live improvisations when I was working at B. C. T. V. N. properly but because the lock down it's been closed so we've done various workarounds one is that I will get my artists to record a solo video of them playing and then I will basically play along with that and try to pretend that's life sometimes well depending on how good I'm able to do that you would think it is live a lot of the times most the time see I seem to be able to pull that off but now that we're in lockdown mode I stopped doing the live or this kind of improvisation over top with her video the new format that I'm using is just taking pre recorded videos from my casts %HESITATION and that's been the last few shows just because I wanted to keep the show going I felt it was more important to keep the show going so I'm not doing a live music right now but we'll get back to it I mean things will open up again we'll be able to do that again but we have great audio engineer and we have three cameras at BCTV so its quality is very high somewhat limited now more at my soon calls but it's still fun and it's still I get to showcase these fantastic artists and I feel like the workaround is better than not doing the show it also I'm just trying to keep everything going forward what has your lock sign experience pain as a musician well in this league panic those laws my money is gone for more than a day most welcome and I'm still going to a new routine so I thought well this is a fun clothes look on as the %HESITATION I have the rest of my life %HESITATION gig of the form and %HESITATION you know we'll be doing it when I'm eighty the way in the out to the local public realm panicking so you take him two years out three years out even I've seen it all but in the grand scheme of things is not nothing too big so I thought well a mother trying you last time I have to try to be as productive as I can be and %HESITATION flex new muscles reading when you do a loss against you and you end up just being all of heart and soul of %HESITATION during the same thing all the time is is so can be very relentless off from twenty three I've done lot tunings here pretty much solid for the past ten years so that's my target I'm sorry it's good to kind of step wife not really in the cry of them wrote music and talking to people %HESITATION AA or podcasts and training people is good you can't convert them selves in in a frying pan lot harder and musician or filmmaker will put costs social media personal really bubble as things went quiet people that is very cold for what you do not tell you what you should be creative and try and log me off my music but I see a above that mediates its to me to be cry if it's an issue of free lost all lock and navigate myself that's more important to me they're not you play music as much as I love playing music well hello I lost all the Arkham controlling BB king mackerel basically nothing my strife people strive for that because it all has no point being in a high jump playing music well %HESITATION on paper they sound amazing but the end of the day you're welcome to somebody else in your control involvement %HESITATION which is always good we went stateside in may with a fabulous catch up with my old pal from queen's university Belfast Dr Gary Rhodes and my new friends fellow arts podcaster Neeson rocklands can you remind me so happily of my arrival in Ireland but also so I try to be unflappable that's impossible and one of the spookiest moments and not a horror film spooky but I guess you'd say nervous moments was when I walked in to teach that course because I felt a little out of place not only is it immigrate myself and living in another country for the first time but I felt I felt a little %HESITATION I would never want to be seen presumptuous in teaching a course on Irish cinema in Ireland I had taught Irish semi actually America previous a couple of times what I ate that was a bit nervous actually going in to teach all of you because I thought gosh I feel ill at ease real ill informed maybe you know to take all that long since as an American and in Belfast what I suppose my interest would be two fold in and one I think it started with horror and they're certainly these tremendous connections between horror and Ireland Irish literature Irish folklore from obviously the bean she threw a film I saw and I I don't think a lot of Irish film scholars I don't know that any of never really talked about it much but when I was ten twelve years old I I was in love with horror movies I was also in love with Francis Ford Coppola who directed the godfather films in Apocalypse Now and early in his career he had made a film called dementia thirteen race early nineteen sixties and it was a gothic horror story set in Ireland it was actually shot in Ireland and you know it's readily available on YouTube it's rather well known film in terms of cold blood studies because it was basically a second film but I think Irish film studies it's completely unknown connections go deeper I mean stoker was Anglo Irish they're such a great tradition of Irish gothic novels and as I grew my interest in horror I grew in my interest at heart literature as well as horror films so there's all these fantastic connections and Irish horror stories on film but the other thing to happen to me when I was a teenager was by about the age of thirteen and of course you know I grew up in the state of Oklahoma I grew up in a town that I will in American terms certainly most mmhm we probably consider small town twenty five thousand people I grew up in I guess I'm trying to think of the the best way to say it but it probably a and is a native American everything you know kind of a masculine type culture in terms or that parameters and so John Huston's films spoke to me greatly as a teenager his films like the Maltese falcon an African queen and these films with Humphrey Bogart who was one of the great cinema tough guys and you know his later films like the man who would be king with Sean Connery and Michael Caine and you know you can kind of see probably quickly understand maybe or or see that you know kind of okay a lot of his films in his life %HESITATION I became fast about Houston's life he was quite an explorer and hunter and you know very masculine and all that very much human waves kind of hit me way of twentieth century American cinema and he was deeply interested in Irish literature and by the time I was in high school he was making his film the debt based on choice and there was a credible documentary film made about it Houston and showed the behind the scenes footage showed in talking at length this is before the kind of making of featurettes we know today by by a large number some examples but they weren't it was before DVD it was before that cottage industry so to speak so I S. I became entranced by the time I was sixteen and seventeen I became entranced with James Joyce and the dead when Houston said in his mind it was probably the greatest short story ever written in the English language that spoke volumes to me the film version he made which I found to be quite faithful I'm talking at length for question and now maybe wearing what but my interest came from these different angles from horror as well as Joyce and then about that same time Beckett because I was also one of my other favorites as a teenager was a Buster Keaton and Samuel Beckett had made keeping film yeah you know later in king's life of course and and a kind of although guard film and I was I was also getting in transfer you know it's easy to romanticize thing when you're a teenager and I you know the passion for it all and I was and I was getting interested in basket because of then his work with Keaton and I was particularly intrigued because Kevin brown will have made this incredible documentary about Keaton and had forty two Keaton's saying you know you didn't even understand the film he made with that you know which I think yes he's one of the yeah exactly here is what the genius filmmakers in my mind he he said he didn't quite understand it but he liked packet and everything so I was coming in Ireland for all these different directions to conclude I would say that in the night you know in the nineteen nineties America really when their kids always had this love affair with Ireland is regrettable exceptions during some immigration periods baby in the nineteenth century and so forth but there's a lot of love affairs in in the later twentieth century certainly from you know everybody you know celebrating St Patrick's day to the nineties when the commitments particularly the film version you too there was a particular love affair with I mean it happened different times before in the sixties I think with JFK for a lot of people but in the nineties it was like it was Neil Jordan and Jim Sheridan's films were exploding onto the scene not my left footed one you know at the academy award and Chris I was graduating from high school and about to start university right at that moment then there's you too and I particularly fell in love like I heard it on the radio and I was driving I mean I remember the moment so clearly I was driving down I. forty in Oklahoma City are your state that runs around a lot of America and I'm burning down the highway in an old car the only one I could afford at the time I'm burning on the highway and this voice comes on the radio this ban what I didn't know the name and I had to ask a friend later that day who is singing this and it was the cranberry so you're gonna set but you know I heard including that kind of Irish weighed in at the end of the song which went from the Irish but meeting pop music even more Irish sound at the end of it just seem to speak to me in ways and again as a more romantic young person a romantic maybe more the German sense of that term my great grandfather was from Ireland scored so on Cherokee and mainly that but I'm you know I have a McCord whose family was actually from the north of Ireland even America from Cork and I had many once is a little tiny child very memories on more work well on all of that and so I had that connection to Ireland as well so forgive this long biography ladies that I fell in love with this and then I fell in love with an Irish woman who was in America and all roads lead you know what I had to leave but I had to leave and it was this tremendous love affair I cannot tell you how achingly I miss Carrickfergus one of my favorite places how much I've missed the Belfast city centre the people there there's so many Dunluce there were so many places I like to go and go repeatedly I just unending love affair there's nothing ever wrong with having back position with that stuff if you're not judging the culture around you then you're just being ignorant to whatever's going on and being ignorant not understand the culture is not going to nourish you as someone that appreciates the culture and you're being a producer like you know if you're going to make content you know make sure you make it was a good purpose I mean if you think you're producing the content these extra help culture one way or another %HESITATION by the stop you I think part of us being podcast assisting our podcast is preserving the cultural little bit so the way we're sort of helping with people understanding and analyzing the culture I'm sure you have it on several occasions I've gone back to like you know seeing how movies were like the fifties and sixties and seventies stuff and seeing the mentality that the world had then and see how different it is now well the stuff that we're making right now can you imagine what people you know twenty fifty a hundred years from now if they go back and find the stumble upon this L. as wow this is what their culture was like during this kind of situation and how much you wanna bet that like at least two or three generations from now people are gonna be curious on how people were during cove it there go back these podcasts and stuff be like wow this is how they got your cove it we talked about before but like you said it yourself would like the public access TV will you ever come back and see some of those old public access TV's and see just like how they did their stuff you know how they would set up their shows I get getting that look into like their realities and such you know like if we're watching like movies in the seventies some like that how much like the Cold War may have influence on the make certain movies and such like that's something that we're never going to experience but like as an analyst we can look back and how they're making movies in the seventies such realized okay this is how they got through the potential existential dread that they could die tomorrow from nuclear warfare going back to like the thirties and such seeing all those like the classic Looney Tunes and such are like the classic cartoons where they they influence are they inspire people hate you should go to war or you should help people you know it invest in the military in such as nail if you go back like that's how they got through the potential jet that they could be aerated by Germany tomorrow you know that's something to help them yeah as an analyst you're always going to be looking back and so we're making stuff right now that other analysts chemistry look back on then it's going to benefit society at the in the day Jan was all about creativity with artistically week absent a K. eight slayer one artwork and doctor Rabaa Mikhail I researcher with University College London's community covert project definitely so I mean I can't say you know it's it's always been enjoyable and definitely being able to have people to do it because of Hobbs you know the office and the spectrum what people saw knocking down its costs awful and you know I want to start selling at comic conventions that was a really difficult time because you get like really hot streaks up point and then it's like oh you know like I'm I'm just here to sell like my outlook on the effort you know for minimalism issue some people are just unfortunate very nice I think you know especially when you are on the PP should always want to encourage people to us I've always believed in my positive reinforcement opposition positive like pushing people you know like I'm always happy to criticize someone in a positive way if someone says tell me everything that's wrong with this also well we'll bill as long as you let me tell you what's wrong with it as well but yeah it is great and also in Leeds as well one of the amazing conventions I mean it's most target now but fall festival thought was I could not festival and that was one of the first proper conventions I want Sir I used to go like religious in a best friend of must win sisterhood and offered them as well and but I'll go on just look all the emission outlook connection with plan for like Olean although she's all these amazing comic out as far as criminal we need to do this when you know any upon this of them would call themselves such an amazing time G. situation out work I actually met should should a lovely woman called Valentina and she ended up I think I'm ever at fault double on the gun shows at work was so inspiring that was another Austin's been amazing to me Schendel designing my first ever thought it was she designed it for men gosh you're so lovely she's helped with my outlook as well and she thought about what she moved back to Italy I like I miss all the time which moved up to a million and she still bought a shirt she was like and it only shows the only on the phone so so when all of a sudden jaw crusher men's and basketball advise yeah I think I think it's really important personally I try to match all the also Paul I don't and never will I mean I myself to forget about all of my friends so I do not stray if Boston Celtic forget also it works my hooks yeah I think especially if you wanted to start out just dole so critical of yourself that's probably adversity given to myself even non if all the advice because people think that have to be perfect straight away in a society where we feel we have to do everything right the first time it's not all I'm sure to give an opponent diminishes and shows a lot of people produce all the mission on this quiet Walmington on the people really thought about working for the sometimes I don't like as much like so many people out there think oh gosh you know you really really good tomorrow you know so hi Kim imposter syndrome will be all see some of the actions that we've been doing with participants have been around people's experiences of lock down their experiences of pandemic their experiences may be accessing subsidized or experiencing loneliness or isolation or the anxiety that comes with the pandemic and expressing that through all forms sorry we've run a couple of very very interesting workshops the bathroom is run by somebody called Marana he works with us he is actually PhD student he's whacking on interventions with people with dementia and say she doesn't so very interesting things such as embroidery said the mindfulness that comes with android jury analysts say the find my skills and you know everything that comes with doing this very very intricate and still full think for a long period of time hello webshop was on collage and we looked at how we might be able to express our feelings food medium of college and denied that might involve looking at lots of old magazines and you know dissipate pad over things that you might have lying around and looking at maybe what the newspapers and thinking about thinking about white why you're picking them out and say you know when you see somebody's collection piece of paper they might have used to set in color they might be used to set some pictures that might be sets and what's to bring the picture together save it might look like a complete mess of the picture it might not be completely as that sixty correct it might look wonderful that's beside the point well the points of the clutch is is to look at that and think how does this reflect my experience and in looking at reflecting my experience how do I tend to talk about my expense had I frame my experience and if I can have this old narrative around the experience then maybe I might be able to address the issues that come up during the experience for example my college in particular I happen and I thought this is very very interesting I was thinking why are you doing this myself my clutch looked at that Meghan and Harry into G. and I picked up pictures of Meghan and Harry and for some reason I also picked out what's that what to do with the interview was around understanding and telling my side of the story and your family and these kinds of things and and and I'm picking these things out and thinking why I picked these things out maybe I'm thinking about my family maybe I'm thinking about my %HESITATION laid the I. eight projects myself well the way that I am talking about how I experienced things and when you look at these and then you look at %HESITATION everybody's colleges and you ask everybody to talk about the colors you can see some very very very interesting stories you know you have about people's experiences and rather than sitting down and doing a traditional interview with somebody which we might do in reception you know it might be very very structured when you got somebody to express their opinion through the medium of all his meeting the college you might get a lot more rich states if not you might get a lot more interesting data from that goal you might get more of a glimpse of the passage rather than excessive structured ons is that they might want to tell you just to tell you save we won these elections just for that practice to understand how people have been experiencing quite a bit and that's one of the things that we've been doing is part of that committee got the project we will say it does not focus groups of people so we've spoken G. as well because they subscribe as in people that work in the community %HESITATION whacking intoxication and community people lacking in that close our teas and social activists and teachers to Austin about well what do you think of the various constipation what can we do to make these things much more accessible for people with what do you think of the other issues around what's happening you know on these patients stuff yeah and as well as that would diagnoses like traditional Quincy black which we have to take we headed back to the states in July for excellent conversations with Dr Charlie hole and palm Munter to talk about their newly published pics funny rules and feeding feed him what I would just really you know like to thank you again for giving me a chance to talk about my mom and to really promote the family rules book just so it's so important to those of us who have been care givers with people who suffered with Alzheimer's and dementia I understand that it's not easy in a row to be on we have to find ways we all have to find our own ways to get those memories back we know that our loved ones are not going to remember them no matter how much we want them to have moments when they'll remember them but they won't be the same and of those memories when they're stolen from you find a way to get them back in this was just my way of giving those memories back to my my children my grandchildren my brother and his family a way for them to kind of remember %HESITATION you know Graham on the way in which they wouldn't remember her normally yes and so now when you see and hear Fanny rules you'll know that I'm talking about my mom well when the power if you think about it I mean they're such a great strong you know conversation about that is the fact that here we have an individual with a twelfth grade U. S. education %HESITATION which means no college no formal education beyond that who is wise beyond her years I mean things that she would tell me one of those conversations that she would tell me is about being mediocre she says don't be mediocre don't be lukewarm just want to be hot you want to be called she said because mediocre is just a block and it just settles for whatever and so I took that message and I think crafted into this one and it's that mediocre settles to the bottom and complains about the view and I never wanted to be a person who complained about the view I wanted to celebrate the view and so she would also tell me that I could be anything I wanted to be so if you want to understand how I can actually move from this or town in West Virginia and I actually received two post graduate degrees end up with a PhD you know all of this is because the fact that this woman said I can be whatever I wanted to be but whatever I wanted to be be the best of it that I can't and she didn't put any parameters on it she said if you want to be a janitor you want to sweep floors she said that be the best floor sweeper there AS and Fannie told me that I needed to clean in the corners because she said it could floor sweeper will clean the corners because anybody can sweep in the middle %HESITATION I've been a feminist since I was about eight and try to get girls and the little league that was impossible back then so I'm hoping that it will ring that bell loudly this is what we do to women and what we've always done it women in this business and we need to rethink that %HESITATION because it's not worth it no people shelf life it shouldn't be a matter of shelf life it should be a matter of what they can contribute and for how long my publicist you telling me the lot of the people who are reviewing it are women so I would guess that's the natural audience I mean the subtitle is women of a certain age in Hollywood but I think anyone who is curious about how things work you don't have to be a film historian to be curious about how Harvey Weinstein could happen and video such an ogre for so many years how did he get away with that kill the casting couch she goes all the way back home it was on a normal accepted event info woman wanted to be up on that screen triggered a light on the couch first it was just %HESITATION unfortunately and given I don't know that that's true anymore I don't think it is certainly there are rules predators out there but it's not as widespread as it once was and I think anybody who cares about the issue will be curious about the stores at least I hope so it was fun to write because of the feminist background I I'll say that because I was a clinical psychologist for so many years I felt that I could get inside their heads and give the reader %HESITATION some idea about how women think about these things how they process that kind of a precedence and disappointment %HESITATION barrel aging process itself you know if we know some of them did pretty well without I think the strength of my writing is always the internal dialogue it's not so much what happens is how the the woman processes the information and that was extremely fun to write because I think I know more about that probably than anything having been in practice so many years I took some time off in August and released some back up material while I was away from the computer June and July were really busy with recordings and normal service resumed with guests focusing on positivity and creativity respectively Dominic Sam and Daniel Hass hi Michelle younger generation because I'm pretty all right now I'm I'm around forty rise hotels and I can see people young so things like that so that's what I want to say and I want to tell people of course is not good to hear it sometimes the younger people feel like it's that nagging your nagging me right now I'm gonna want to bring it out it either more reality form that this things that's happened it happens to everyone so I want to talk about it happens to everyone we cannot hide it we can we have to break break through the wall and share it the man is difficult for me like for example it's hard for me to show my feelings to my wife sometimes she said you know you don't hold my hands anymore than that %HESITATION why don't I hold my hold on the hold is in well I don't know why it's just it's not like I'm I'm a touchy feely kind of guy you know it's hard to open up sometimes so doing this part because actually helped me as well because I feel like if I do good out there good will come back if I motivate people I will motivate myself as well just like there was a a youtuber dive was watching the other day he told us he said everyone has the same amount of time in the week what we do in that time brings a success %HESITATION differs between different people so if I wake up in the morning the first thing I do is I look at myself on and go to Instagram or whatever instead I could have used that if you know a few seconds and morning when I wake up look in the mirror and say I'm gonna do well today so in that actually brings a little bill impact to your own life and two into anyone's life right or if you're if you're a kid and you in the house if you wake up in the morning instead of going down there say Hey mom what's for breakfast you could say Hey mom good morning right Houston well things like that I mean there's just one tiny thing that can actually bright as a person's life but if my kid if you wake up the monies that had that good morning %HESITATION I feel good you know I feel good and not not a whole good but still good right in just one step up on once they would build upon upon just one tiny happen as a but not happen this eventually I feel like eventually everything will fall into place and everything will picks up from there see details like this the seven habits habits it's been an interesting Sir journey for man and not some space because like I said it was really my my good friend do is a lot more in depth with film I've always grown up watching films and really enjoying cinema but for me it was wasn't something I really thought about getting into what was interesting was I feel like what I sort of looked back and found with everything is that for me personally I think that the storytelling aspect is really where I feel like I've always had the most deaths and success wins but I've always kind of struggled with the transition from page to screen as far as like visualizing what angle is to use and constraining myself to like okay fine but the tripod here with this sort of lands like this is a result I'm going to get I can't do it in my head so %HESITATION you know for a long time I I really was telling myself okay you know I really wanna do writing and directing and I can take on both but with the project that I did in twenty eighteen I really found that you know while I can do it and I can make it happen I feel like it's better for me to have the right people by my side that can actually translate what I'm writing better than even I feel like I can and again maybe that some kind of like weird mental hurdle which in ten years I'll figure out that like it's just me serve protecting myself from actually making the films as a director myself but at least at this stage in my life I'm sort of feeling like where I need to go with things is finding really good directors who can translate the writing and the way in which I can write the writing if that makes sense it's one of those things were as I'm writing something I only see it as kind of a stage play where is like everything just kind of a flat canvas and it's all sort of coming to life around me but I'm not seeing like you know okay when this person's talking like this if if I have this sort of camera movement or something like that none of that enters into my mind even the least bit I think with you know as time's gone on I just sort of made that mental jump so it's been nice because as I look back on everything a lot of the films that I've made or worked on you know I was either more is like as co directors somebody that was there just one set hoping things go smoothly you know maybe more as a producer or something like that and there's always been in my mind the best films that I've made with a good team and not one of those things where you know when I tried to make on I feel like they work and I feel like they have a good message to them but as far as how everything comes out on the screen there's not a lot of refinement you know I feel like I'm more of this let's just have a camera free flowing and stuff like that and that always just doesn't work as fast as it could for something that's just more visualized by someone who can make that transition more than I can in September %HESITATION do you drama producer boleh more help to celebrate our one hundredth episode entry nerd style with fascinating stories about adopting his father's literary works while also contributing to the advancement sent audio technologies and modes of production we then heard from Dr Fiona noble about her researching contemporary Spanish cinema I'm talking about alternative approaches to the academic so they I have to say mystically lucky in that I'm pretty good with the theory of things but not so good with the practice and so I have gained producer editor who is amazing %HESITATION figure out ways of executing the crazy ideas that I come up with and I had his passed away a few years ago but I have this wonderful wonderful engineer what you believe yourself to a stop not only was he triggered recordings but he could just build devices that hi imagine during you need to have the particular thing that we were talking about do you go back so I like working in stereo I like doing as much with the stereo space as I possibly can one of the hardest things was to figure you know do I want to block actors around in the stereo spaced and then somehow walk the production or the creation of sound effects in some way that tracks them and when you put all this stuff in the same recording board line up and sound like it's the same spot this isn't very difficult to do of course the more you utilize the stereo space the more difficult it is and I want to get really clean dialogue tracks I like to not worry about anything but the voices when I'm in the studio that's the only thing I want to deal with I record all my voice is moderate but I need a visual tracks they can be hand around the stereo proceeding on waste with both panting you know so panning and volume and a little bit of reverb to create you know are they from the back of a culture to use things like that but then how to make the sound effects follow rob so I was talking to Howard our engineer and there's some kind of a joke it's only funny to engineers I don't really understand it but they would make this joke about it monophonic Kampot meeting some sometimes you would cancel liberal left to right which of course you can't do it I had heard him say that a couple of times and I was like how hard we've worked with MS technology which I'll explain in a second I want you to build me a monophonic camp and so she did the way you talk about three months later he came back with more acts okay so this is the pattern and over here we've got one of the lot one of the dogs is the volume which is you know basically does your in and out of this does your back and forth and okay now explain how this thing works yeah that's such a good question I think that was one of the key points that came back for and I'd submit the first draft of the manuscript to the publisher is and the talks about four I needed to do to prove that threat and the idea of subversive Spanish cinema city the big not that it wasn't there but that you know just by adding things like and the conclusions each chapter unexploded back you can prove that threads together and the artists such readers on their anonymous obviously they are such pertinent questions that really made me think about the significance of the title and how it related to what I was talking about it because I think if you look at the carcass of material for the big and the filling car pass it probably looks quite mainstream in some ways I'm not necessarily looking hot experimental filmmaking in Spain that's not part of what that be extinct there's some really interesting things happening in kind of alternative cinematic practice says worst filmmaking practice in Spain especially kind of post economic crisis that's not my forte told us not something I'm particularly knowledgeable back to somebody like Rebecca north send you she has the blog nobody knows entity where she talks about Spanish cinema I don't know how active she is barking at the minute she's from the northeast actually and I don't know if you've ever come across %HESITATION but she's a really knowledgeable person I buy alternatives Spanish cinema practices that's not what this because it's not a private kind of we cannot what's happening with the mainstream if that makes sense it's more about looking hot you know the key players all Spanish cinema there are some films in there that are less well known there are some filmmakers you know the likes of petrol model of our who is probably you know the most well known Spanish filmmaker certainly in the U. K. ET bought depict deals rather with subversive nests within those kind of mainstream contacts and looking out hi %HESITATION the positional filmmakers we're working under Franco's the likes of Carlos Salazar or at least customer Langat London about a name he's the uncle off have yet course people like them your last identifying filmmaker is under Frankel working June the dictatorship shooting about a strict censorship conditions that there were at the time so it's looking at those kind of precursors to what's happening in contemporary manifestations of performance and that presentations of performance in Kentucky sponsor and kind of seeing the offense comes through you from those oppositional filmmakers into the present day and what that looks like and how you can become %HESITATION means all speaking out against the common additives or the dominant ideas in society October so a reunion with merry at Spiro sketchy I previously spoke today at the twenty eighteen late shows this time we discussed her ad member French performance landing I also reached out to other friends of artist Sally match and a bunch of us recorded memories of Sally for an episode released ahead of commemorative events marking the first anniversary of her death in case you missed the hidden track at the end well here southeast coast companion and collaborator Tom Jennings reciting his first the North Sea fought in a way I found it in some ways liberating because I'm going to have number %HESITATION while I'm on an island in the Atlantic and that's why %HESITATION that and and the hard to get my head around them has but also very exciting I've got somebody producing will be in Africa during the time of the production and it's and my director is in Ireland it's just kind of also beautiful that I'm someone who's very international and I've traveled a lot and I have friends all over the world for me it's always been about you know other time zones and languages etcetera so it feels like the world is kind of stepped up to accepting that is more common than normal in every day and that excites me because it's just really creating that feeling of collectivity globally and %HESITATION I personally love that so in a way it is deliberating the strike while B. R. R. your chili but streaming islands you they can go worldwide and research that I think is a worldwide competition and %HESITATION we're having an yes it's exciting it's exciting to have that but I performed live for the first time the other week here on the island we had a little open Mike at the cafe and actually there's a lot of performers on the Simons strangely enough and it's the first time I'd perform live the new year and a half last time was in Newcastle actually enough and he was just so exciting for everyone just like all you know we have been sharing this moment an audience it's been difficult yet challenging but if we can find a way to have a balance in the future it's kind of interesting it does open up a lot of possibilities I know there's a lot of companies have in the states and in other countries you know been working digitally already for years they were kind of ahead of the game a little bit if you will yeah it's an interesting chance yet like I'm saying I think it's about the balance I want it all to go online forever now they really don't but how can we find a way to you know make a hybrid form or medium it's interesting we're definitely it's been a learning curve imagine a moderate offshore breeze when the tide begins to wane with the lapping of tiny waves blown back against the grain battles in the sun crackle as they shift this way and that while you stroll along the shoreline with Sally chewing the North Sea fast in November I never did like this museum and Stacy asked McKenzie frankly and caught up with Brandon Conley talking about detecting world a cheese your own adventure calendar that we have very much enjoyed this month's I do really enjoy this topic I like talking about the British Museum because truthfully I have a love hate relationship with that because the very first time I got to visit the British Museum was in the summer of twenty eighteen so I had not yet finished my degree I was the summer before my senior year of budding anthropologist just like jumping in my seat waiting in line to get into the British Museum because it is you're absolutely right this global institution where you can see thousands of years of human culture across the world in one place started walking through and seeing all of the things and wondering where they came from and how they came to be into that institution and learning more about the ways in which those objects were acquired and then some of the contentions regarding the fact that a lot of those objects have been requested to be formally returned and subsequently denied so the more I learned the more that the magic was kind of stripped away from me so it's been really wonderful institution I absolutely believe that something like that should exist but at the same time yeah you have really big ethical questions that need to be answered and yes people do challenge me on this topic they will often say well especially in the case of the British Museum if they started giving things back they have to give everything back and then they have nothing left which is such an exaggeration and far from the truth but I think that certainly concessions do you need to be made very simply the start you told a few items you have in your infantry unless you go through the store you will lose on the choir of right and so the my simple level keeping a record of well I have a small lamb well I I you know I I'm carrying this style the other not to spoil it I need to objecting counted but you keep the title of those the next can influence the choices that are available to you at different points so for example if you got a big cocaine to come across a big gulp padlock you can unlock it and if you don't you can help so at the most basic level yes you're actually do a physical symptoms but there are other things you may wish to record and write down old drawl at various points finally in December I had a delightful time with the of the last of the Cinemalaya Neil's podcast and learn lows but life as a jobbing actor in the U. S. film and television industries from Kate H. anarchists yeah it's I mean it's funny you say it's like kind of like a research project which I mean that I think that's a perfect example of what it is because %HESITATION I went to school for history I'm a trained ademas historian because you know that's not my field and I want to sound too pretentious in there I'm not gonna call myself when the film historian but %HESITATION you know I did study anyway %HESITATION anyway you are to no sales the story no one but no I am I studied history went to school for history because as I said before was a lifelong passion and I really do think that film is a good way of introducing not exactly educating because obviously you know there's too much Hollywood stuff like the last tool which is in the army %HESITATION but now which is actually funny like to go on a limb that little tangent armor medieval representations of armor are better in the first half of the cinema rather than what is going on today unfortunately but I think it's a great way to really see what people are into and see what they're not into and then see how they can relate it back to our world tangy and how to understand what we're doing wrong or what we did do wrong in the past whether it be through art or social movements and how we can fix that today and I think through filmmaking that introduces a lot of topics that are can be often difficult and can really meet people not make people but can really make them feel comfortable enough to talk about those issues so all of it is being an open vessel so to be comedy to be drama and just really being open and so when you're open and you know your team is setting you up for these projects and you're going out for these projects and you're up and you're down and you're crying you're vulnerable you're happy in your court you're sad the most important thing is just to be true to your authentic self you have your bass line and then you have people you study with Susan Batson B. A. T. S. O. and she is an amazing book called truth she's doing virtual people can you drop ins for twenty dollars a day Monday through Friday she has a lot of international people who study with her she's Nicole Kidman's acting coach for over twenty years you'll have been noticed I sure Madonna %HESITATION brushy coach is all these people for their films so being trained by the crown telegram right so you can be trained at what level and and it's like the best investment you're gonna make is in yourself with your time to follow the the food you eat the coaches you study with the podcast you listen to the people we associate with so all of that goes hand in hand with the characters I choose because based on life it's not just linear and I could tap into different experiences that I personally experience or that I've observed to being a great observer I love observing and so something directly hasn't happened to me I can with Google you can research it you can watch some like minded movies you can check out the director projects that they did a part for T. that's for films or TV shows you know the tone of the show grey's anatomy it's always sunny cold case you know the tone of the show you know the casting director like no other body work %HESITATION in there do great work you have to build a relationship with the casting director they keep bringing you when they like your work so if they want you on the show it's just a matter of time before it happens you just have to keep up and just show up and do great work and then make sure you're taking care of your body mind and spirit because they like I said they're very hand in hand with one another you know doing different characters is like it's always sunny it's like corky it's far sign in and they're like oh they like that then you can that's permission to play to take that a step further and discover where you can go when you get on set you've already done the preparation so everything I'm telling you studying coaching researching that's the tone of the show that's the preparation of the character before you show up when you get to set you already know your lines you already know your character and it's an opportunity to get out of your head and get more into your got into the intelligence of your body and to play and be professional because there's the takes a village and there's hundreds of people on set and especially now we want to be very mindful of staying within the parameters of everyone doing their job to make a party is you know the hair stylist like if they ask you your opinion cool but they're already communicating with directors and assistants and people and everyone has the domino effect of how they're showing up in everyone's doing their best so you know when you have the character you that's your ultimate time where you get to play and have a lot of fun well what a year it's been and it's because of you the listener supper still going and approaching four years of learning more and more of a different landscapes and audio visual cultures but I want you to tell me what have you enjoyed what would you like to hear more off and learn to fight and what might be missing that we haven't touched on yet and I know there's lots of topics that we haven't touched on and we're working our way Brian tape let me know by email to the audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com MSH eighty cultures part on any of the socials it's been a tree privilege to speak to so many interesting guests from such a diversity of backgrounds and I'm really looking forward to what twenty twenty to bring I'm always happy to hear from folks who'd like to cast on the show and I'll be back nagging at my artist friends to come speak to you because their class and she really need to know about them for night mind yourselves and catch you next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 60 – Illuminating the Self with Susan Aldworth and Andrew Carnie automated transcript


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hello and welcome to the official cultures podcast exploring arts and cultural production I'm Paul up there and for this episode I had the great pleasure of talking with artists Susan Aldworth and Andrea Carnegie kindly took the time while installing their work at the heightened gallery in new castle university to share insight and their joint exhibition eliminating the cells exhibited in both the Hutton and fan and commercial union hice in the center of Newcastle upon Tyne their work responds to the new castle university lad county projects which stands for controlling abnormal network dynamics using optogenetics a process of using lights to control cells which are genetically modified to be light sensitive implanted and having tissue specifically brain tissue and people living with certain types of epilepsy to help control seizures county is a collaboration between Newcastle University imperial college London University College London and the Newcastle upon Tyne hospitals NHS foundation trust their website can be fined at C. A. N. Teo dot AC dot U. K. if you'd like more information there is a wide range of materials and processes throughout the GLX ambitions and creating different approaches to a prince making video light and sculptural installations and embroidery the van exhibition is on until the twenty ninth of February and the heightened show finishes on the night of may twenty twenty so plenty of time to get along to the house and if you find yourself in the chain Boeser reading were saying do you enjoy these fascinating discussions with thank you so much for taking a bit of time might have here and still today at the Houghton if it's okay can we talk a bit about your exhibition eliminating the self and everything in full so that's a collaboration with Newcastle University and Andrew Carney as well hi to see animals and I've worked with the university %HESITATION two projects before one about schizophrenia in two thousand and twelve which was shown at the Hackney gallery could resembling the self and another one about sleep we showed at York St Mary's in New York in two thousand seventeen correct the ducks self and this one's called illuminating the self centered you might get done talking about I'm really interested in the relationship between our physical bodies and our brains and our sense of self enough sense of humanized anti I've been commissioned alongside under Connie in two thousand fifteen on another project looking at %HESITATION optogenetics which is a way of trying to get the lights into the brain to sort out various problems of the brain I'm not a scientist in my explanation of the signs you have to go into peace and son to school and doing that project I introduced Andrew to the scientists up here who were working on this project which is cool can do and what they're trying to do here is to find a way for certain focal epilepsies of switching off the epileptic seizure before it happens viasat two phones one is the range implanted a microchip %HESITATION one is by introducing some sort of gene therapy whereby the light sensitive cells reintroduced into the brain and the combination of the implant on these light sensitive cells the scientists to trying to switch off system sales of epilepsy it sounds quite sort of Frankenstein be honest I mean why would anyone want to have their brain interfaced with but the truth is with apple that she it affects one in a hundred people in the country and not hold back Alexis can be treated with drugs or with other sorts of brain surgery and so when I got the commission to make the work it's not illustrating the project it's responding to it it's looking at the ethics human implications and working with the scientists to widen the approach because epilepsy is nothing if somebody separate and that social justice %HESITATION with my way into it I want to find out what it feels like to live with the experience of living with epilepsy and why you might make the decision to have an implant so I've talked to scientists I've talked to clinicians about their patients during the project I've talked to a legal ethicist about the you know who's responsible for the brain and on the ethics of that but will find me up as an artist is talking to the people with epilepsy about their experience of it so that's the way I work as an artist so I decided I needed to find a lot of people with epilepsy to understand I'm one of the things I've found out very early on is that %HESITATION Minneapolis's when not treatable by trucks and then on to school but said jury and this possible cure and it's a very early stages of sun please would relieve some people because you can have hundreds to fix today and you know it's your own body's sort of letting you down it's changing the sense of self and what I've discovered is what is it seems to change your sense of certainty can you imagine waking up every morning not sure if you're going to get that day and if it is a public thing people see fitting so it's stigmatized it's complex I'm not sure because this idea of eliminating the stuff and this is an exhibitionist across two sites so we had the opening in the in the night before recording this even the expiration of the light and art to something that's been going on since day dot really so %HESITATION that marrying up with the science of feasting lights to change things in the brand is really fascinating to and there's a lot of light and the other part of the exhibition I think it's mostly with Andre stuff again my my son of types which are in the exhibition are made with light and sound the type is a photographic process which is you painted light sensitive solution on to paper and you place objects on to the paper and then developed by UV lights I use sunlight to mine so like just being really central to the development of the work and it's interesting having the opportunity to show across two sites so for me it's meant that a plane I could show you will based work which gives you audience a chance to contemplate the ideas in a different way alongside the installation of signage types that %HESITATION three very large portraits of people with epilepsy who came to sit for me and the portraits of a very personal reflection of the relationship between me and the sitter and that relationship with that that season that's what I want to do with those and then the work here relates to light because the light that the scientists used in the brain is blue so there's a lot of blue light and blue light and UV lights are on the same spectrum so if my installation here I contacted the epilepsy society and I found a hundred people who would be happy to write the stories of living with epilepsy and my idea was to get that imploded on to a hundred pieces of Victorian underway but a hundred embroideries and I pulled it off which is amazing underwear because Apalachee stigmatized and hidden conditions so it's like bringing it up to the open all civic touring underwear is very beautiful responds very well to you she liked and lastly I didn't want to have sort of a Victoria's secrets sort of sleazy piece of underwear and I didn't feel it would click the graphic testimony was that I would cheat and also I love Victoria I mean that's something that I find is that a very pleasing unemployed was said with UV sensitive thread and throughout the incident these hundred pieces of Victorian underway hang from the ceiling by police and in between each row awesome UV lights and the whole installation is going to move in the algorithm of an eclectic brain and then what happens with epilepsies normally in your brain that is firing a fair bit far off last week on a random program so that the clothes go up here and they go up that considering twenty rows of five down this huge gallery and then slowly the clothes will become synchronized which is what happens before people have a seizure everything your brain gets stuck a bit like soldiers walking over a bridge everything gets inspecting your brain and that's when the seizure happened so we're going to get the closing to get into this synchronicity and then it will stop I had wanted to close to fall to the floor but I thought that was a bit lecturing and so we'll just shut off the light switches that another way of stopping something it's a very ambitious please the curator working with Lucy Jenkins and the install is that they've never tasted anything so complicated put my head in my hands I should live but it's a good idea and it has to be C. enemy of making it work which is great yes it's better to have a go at something like that how to race absolutely and also I feel hugely responsible in carrying the hundred people stories and a hundred artists sewing because I mean I've had a hundred people from all over the country so informing creating thirty five people from the rolls would need to %HESITATION so I feel a huge artistic responsibility to those two hundred people who have given of themselves for this work about yeah it's really a collaborative fifty very attractive hello sign on top of that I've had this wonderful young guy could well that can suit has been my three D. designer who has built the frame and made to police it looks like Victorian theater to go with the clothes and he's dedicated months of his life to it and he's you know a young club the guy and then also on Bannon has done the algorithms for the computer and the motives you know because I can come up with these very conceptual ideas but I come to the hold of myself I suppose that it's important to have that visualization of just a snapshot of how many people the only thing I know there's a history enough ways of having studios with lots of people working for you and maybe it's to do with the feminization about that I'm happy to make my collaborative you know I don't need different think I've done everything I think it's important to name people who work really hard to put in a forty yes I know Texas well that's an incredible color today it's an incredible shift today that has been produced I was really staring at them last night because I just wanted to dive into the deep space today yeah the blue the summertime blues it was very interesting to do a lot of time experimenting on different paper services because you know it's a chemical process but it is very sensitive to pay to service and to how much some areas and I decided I didn't want to work in the U. V. books because what was lovely about working sunshine is that you get long shadows and it changes the images because if you can imagine the process is putting objects on the piece of paper in UV lights if the sun is casting long shadows in one direction you get a very you know if you look at mid day you go to for a different picture than you do if you work at four o'clock in the afternoon and having the freedom to play with the lights like that and July and August down in London where I was working we had a lot of sunshine I just couldn't finish before the bad weather K. at the time that and the blue in the end I ended up experimenting with heavy papers white papers and I found this Japanese paper quotas of washi which is only twenty eight grams it feels like %HESITATION rice paper %HESITATION just flipped off which is why can frame them and it produced both very sharp images and it always hit that beautiful blonde and I made my own chemicals up for these these sanitized solution because I wanted to be in control of everything at every level I like learning new techniques citing isn't half basket but more about that idea of portraiture because this three really large portraits in the end they're not just one panel so they're fragmented and yet clearly together in each case so those were originally in the national portrait gallery is that right a few years ago I suppose just getting at that idea of probing about mark the south and portraiture and tied to convey that a person is more than just a surface yeah you know there's all this other craziness going on and coming I do for them and it's fragmenting them and yet they're one person still I know those things are black and white so what was the process for making those yeah I mean you're quite right about the fragmentation of of a person I had to sit just came to me for three about three days we had long sessions talking and I was drawing and photographing them and they are innocent strictly portraits of them from those three days and maybe the fragmentation is a bit of me saying as an artist I'm not trying to capture the person okay I I recognize that we all you know that sort of philosophical thing we only exist in the moment we don't exist in the future and the past is just a memory so I was very keen on those portraits to be about the conversations I've had with them and so the moment tights with something %HESITATION shoot clay which means that I could print some photographic elements onto a used engine copy paper which I then put through the press with the other marks and the impacts so from the papers so it looks like she collects this means Chinese collage really and so it's a very interesting process for me when I'm trying to pull together the fragments of the person so I had that E. G. switches to sort of bring standing used to sort out that let's see the first picture Max he was writing a book on the magnet culture when I talk to him and he's a very very thoughtful spiritual person and I think the photograph that I took him I felt captured something very particular wonderful about him because he was working on the Magna Carta EEGs they they they mention to Latin script from the Magna Carta and the very heraldic I used my own brain scans to create a sort of her rounded shape around him because I wanted to as for the philosophical point it's my interpretation of him it's not him and so that was Max the next one along is feeling that she's going to have the ability just so they could absences which triggered by light can you describe to me how she you know so much I can hit to facing from maybe any two three seconds she just goes in and comes back and people don't necessarily notice but it is a form of epilepsy absolutely especially nailed his record to put him out of small seizure and she was very at that point in her life I'm willing to talk to people about her epilepsy and particularly she never wanted to note that her boyfriend snowed because she felt so I put her face hidden behind a home should be in her because I felt that she for the portrayed and he wants to show a very small part of himself and the Federal Trade whose Elizabeth she at that point in her life is definitely she's newly married and desperate to have children but she knew that the medication she was on her epilepsy she couldn't take when she was pregnant that would damage the fetus so I put her face in her womb infections going on to have to fight because children and she's having a great life but all of them describe to me at that moment in time their experience of living with epilepsy and the way in which it impacted on their lives that's where I feel is not to say to me what what can artists do by exploring epilepsy dot com cute people I come change the world but you might go to change you want them to change if you could bring things up at the end of the discussion you could make someone think about we hold something so it's a way of exploring the self and in this case it's a self that that she and that's why the portraits of fragmented because I think we all such complicated being I thank the lord the previous record dark stuff is very interested to read about that because that extra sleep more and it seems that there's a very clear relationship between what the brand does when it's very busy it when somebody's having a seizure and they may be on the conscious self and the brain when any of us states were not our conscious self and it's very busy and stuff going on in there a server every ship there for you as well it's all part of the this is a total exploration of the self that I do sleep I found particularly fascinating because everybody does it and I think the exhibition I did down in New York related to a lot of people I mean you know we always ask did you sleep well I mean I'm fascinated by the fact that I was surprised when I sleep I mean I got burgled when I was asleep and nothing happened except a listings but much of being a bad habit to sleep up trees and all mammals sleep and I think it's a very interesting part of being human I think it's a very important part of being an animal and I think it makes us think about what the brain is you know nobody quite knows why we sleep nobody knows exactly what goes on in this in sleep but what they do notice it without sleep we would die and without good sleep it impacts on mental health and well being so it was a fantastic subject and then very hard to explore visually because sleep is a dark nothingness and so I tried to find multiples in the end I fixed on the pillow case because it seems to me the intent that you leave in the pillow when you wake up is what sleep is this is a visualization of sleep so I printed off the lines of what trump black paper because I thought that then I could work against sleep and I made some sculptures which were the intensive had some pillows then I got people to embroider the dreams of the cases and hung them as well which is where my interest in community embroidery came from really and it seems that there's a relationship that as well between the fabric and suspects up being about one time occupied by ability again docu patients on their gap since of a body and maybe there's something there but what's going on with the brand the body's paradise so with this absence anyway and yeah this beautiful street and the %HESITATION the pillowcases that I use the excavation work X. hotel pillowcases so they would have had a history of the and then I feel the same with the underwear this another reason I want to use Victorian underwear because it's all the more it has a history before we come to it with these new stories I was so kindly but she donated to the underwear by a young woman who runs it been to shop in Hastings cooled that Jake McLean from hawk and dove and when we came to wash the clothes I've found that some of them had one person's name in them and they started officers of the very slim young woman and they ended up with a really cool the woman and the idea that I have on top of everything else that goes to the exhibition I have a personal history of someone's underwear off and removing it has a new life it has a new life yeah a new narrative but the old narrative is invented in a minute but the shape of the size of the player I'm putting the DNA %HESITATION is it okay to ask you about the transience change yeah I apologize I don't know very much but I was reading yesterday by the city of the brain tissue E. and I haven't seen any of the work so it's like it's okay I know that the chances were kids something that I'm incredibly proud of what happened was was what I was doing the national portrait gallery shows invited to go to Hammersmith hospitals Parkinson's brain bank two what should bring dissection and being an artist is open lots of doors for you and so when I first got that they got the brain out they were going to die said I don't know if you know the artist Helen Chadwick he was a wonderful conceptualized as to sergeant died too young and she did this fantastic so portrayed which was just a pair of hands holding a human brain and of course you can never help you and brain but it said everything I was trying to do so when I was in the lab I said could someone take a photograph of me holding the brain so cotton on to have a child with unless I was holding the brain I couldn't believe what it felt like it was cold it was locked and I suddenly it seemed to turn from object to subject in my hands because I was holding everything that person of being in this book not everything is subject to the physical body and I got very sort of moved by what you can do that to section off to that and it's a very formal procedure and they lay everything out very beautiful very very visually artistically laid out on the system through my head and I was in the middle of the portrait project the national portrait gallery so I was thinking wouldn't it be that you know the ultimate portrait would be to make a print from human brain and then I just thought he was gonna let me do that so I spoke to the professor afterwards and I said look I've just had this really strange idea can we talk about it and he was very open minded he said I think it would be exploitative to do that I think it might be a very interesting thing philosophically and also I think it could help people understand the relationship with the self to their brains and maybe more people would donate their brains to science featured help other people so he said I'll have to put it through the ethics committee at the hospital so we made the case rate and they said yes so you sometimes have to be careful what you wish for because having someone to do it I have to find out technically how it was conducted and the deal was that I could have some brain slices just for one day two days and there is a very short amount of time and that he would have to be with me at all times first of all I went down to Smithfield market in London and got some land springs she explains I could experiment with those and we got some interesting marks of them but the difference was that the human brain I don't see being informal behind and it was fixed if you like because of a brain is a very gelatinous so to speak to mon G. things in real life seventy six percent for that and then the professor and I drove down from London to Bexhill was working with most printing money Locksley and we knew we were going to do we were going to make catching something kept in place we were going to shake a hand shaking up the chain around the brain slice to make a very dark background but we had no idea what monk's we would get and we filled the full Monty Hyde would be fatty and in it she you need something fatty to resist the acid so we place a slice of the plate we should separate into round it to the brain slice off and we actually played some legal these remarkable images that looks like consciousness at work they're really beautiful and the some of the website was proud of when I found out later on that day not dated when she done the same thing with the human heart printed directly from it so I felt very selective with overseeing excellent company and the the actions of beautiful ocean room in London level session at the fitzwilliam museum in Cambridge to me the very significant works both in terms of the process of and the serendipity I had no idea we were going to get such beautiful marks from them and also to me the contact to the brain with the plate was huge statement of what the self with only got terribly emotional making the work not to ship a tear at some point because will you and we were working with commission with someone's brain with innocence again of a Frankenstein but it was done without the respect and thoughtfulness sadly I I was never allowed to move who it was because of patient confidentiality and that's quite right but I would love to somehow say thank you to the left side motion but if the thing anyway so that's the transient section it's not the whole plan for eliminating the south as well to try and communicate this is what people are going okay yeah I mean the story is all other people's stories because they tell the stories better than I could have it as an artist we're trying to use movement to suggest the patents in the brain that go on I want to create a slight the Regis is the wrong I went to a very it's a very big space the patent that I'm showing in its cavernous it's slightly cathedral like in a sense so I want to create a sense of awe and wonder hopefully between the sort of Victorian theatrical experience when the machinery moves and things so it's going to be performative the work will be on all the time it will come again I've also made a note to spokes of the people Ellen is being put on election in the gallery again keeping the sort of sensible to the people can read the full testimonies that people have written because they are employed it but because of the moving you might not have the time also in a few weeks time I'm making a PDF of the book so that if people want to read it they can I can send it to them because of the artist book to beautiful thing but it's an expensive thing and I want these testament is to have a life I said fingers crossed it'll work for third thing tomorrow night yeah okay to get back to making it making sure that we do that thank you for taking the time to talk to me thank you so much for your time the phone has been lovely to me thank you so much for interrupting your install for me so much time looking yeah and then %HESITATION seconds I hope and this is a health and safety issues I'm done with school and working on this one sense of the I need to replace because of %HESITATION gonna really for some reason %HESITATION but that's it so the videos out the since quite fitting in a way if something goes awry I have always done I mean in any exhibition is always kind of changes I mean that some of them happy changes suddenly yeah originally I went to the screen for the back okay it creates a space behind and suddenly another works I was thinking of showing fifty better and so something behind there in a couple more isolated in space and I really like that so in the mistakes in the errors in the accidents and things not working new things come about that's the really good thing about civil again with this case I was a bit worried about one of the lights the force me to get a second controller for it and it works better than it did before taking up different kinds of signals those who left kind of things happen in exhibitions new stuff arising is it okay if we describe what we're saying yeah yeah yeah so %HESITATION in front of us at the moment we've got this long screen so you've got these layers of matches said his voice yes this is my normal net curtain that trickle curtain Houston projecting threats as a kind of twelve minutes a long project so using four channels of video play %HESITATION about twenty nine minutes plays very slowly because these transformations and the boy will just give you this kind of feeling of death when spoken of strangeness puts you in a limbo kind of specs which I really like going to school at the minute this call may be monitored for the mother so it's mainly black and white yeah absolutely because at certain points okay that's one of the works who works on census except for this work this work stays on continuously right the blues blues affecting billions with drawings on that trigger to every so often will come on and on that similar one cities and at the end yeah of course I'll go invading in the other parts of the show up go simple blues in office because the slightly different he said whether they will miss our logical building yes these ones are about twice or three four times as big as the ones that I just don't have to work on the bigger ones the huge ones it was a sixteen or twenty feet in diameter but that's another story yeah the rules hand drawn on six even with some friends doing it my wife kindly doing quite a lot it's taken a lot of time and with the big ones you find all doing really well it all happened in any of this with the tool it's a letter to the flames so that's the point of interesting process entities not ready Brandless is it but it says it's kind of it's kind of and your own mapping and and images of neurons and there's this thing that when they inflate they should consult a different images then when the flat one point like is the quiet moments like tennis when they're blowing up in them and the fans go off the stop deflecting the some kind of silence which already like are they that by E. V. like Sir this is gorgeous to %HESITATION LEDs and okay the the state just got issues that are very similar yeah absolutely this looks like yeah black lights the lights on working with them that's fine this one piece the scope please answer that said that it's on the corner of the time's going to they'll settle down and then they would come on all of the senses have come hibernate cycle so they want instantly come back on you have to wait for a full five minutes want to people's concentration to changes in the exhibition focusing on one piece of the big video and then like this the treaties of the a festival now and so that's how slow the remote one small step of work to do on the TV moving around signet stock it results in a call to work out why can't stop so this one is again it's just an online memory fills up with the shadows much lower and you've got a really beautiful symmetry with the shape of the twigs coming out of the tree and cities Nero yes yeah this kind of relationship between content to take full inside the house and the denture to perform it in trees and these are not just the trees of the circle the roots on as well so that kind of problems with the life cycle services in that kind of world events I also go over and then okay yeah the new runs on the balloons and then there's a kind of neural part of the system yet this is a real seven news basically I have got used to the titles of once you this one's called a binder the card okay you can see these Texas is a little your boss was another you'll refer to the optogenetics the work was being done by talented but in this one the secrets of the options with the will of the detecting cost out the blue lights so that that room this one is coming along it's more like a kind of crisis in the body right very small contributions from geico messed up systems in the yeah so there's lots of things that were coming about lots of it's being billed as a kind of taking over the research and the work of repair the time and then things speeding up if you look at that on this trip exactly what creates a suddenly this bright charismatic piece that happens that means kind of driven us away it's going to be the one what's the way the if you're in the main kind of part of the government so it's because this is a better product Hey yes the food was on hand for you should we treat piece from the hexagonal qofka window and then if something comes up in this one other piece that's kind of not playing pool at the minute which is a place of peace transaction declined by the CIA well I've just got a new controller so hopefully something they're going to plug it in and it's all going to work it's just the power unit for some reason it's not picking up the signal from the water is controlled by the end of today it should be working so this is basically a very large media on this for all the fixes yeah and this kind of case pieces while watching the street was like sign truck that you might have heard is in here %HESITATION that comes out every so often and that's on the sensor but also when that place that's the fun that comes on the news the oil and it's kind of very interesting aspects of the laces when they're open because that needs to be a kind of a line at certain points during the exhibition problem with it at the minute is that is the latest in common frequently enough until long enough kind of an issue and so if you look around at different points of triggers should set off we'll be in this mess but this one stands on the top it is triggered by the side of the car percent it also plays more vigorously when the silent the weather in San comes from down that this call is heavy on banks and then they kind of backed down the ladder on the way are the colors %HESITATION significance they ought to be in a sense I mean the blue always leads to the October is gonna five blue lights to signal to the cells to flatten the epileptic attack to the blues significant amounts of Blue Ribbon Primerica and then in this one it was just this kind of sense of using points as a kind of normal situation standard situation situation and the red as a kind of crisis and it's kind of typical color code Michigan city not since it was just one yes and it went from red to green wait a minute I'm going to cover that sense of the value of it it shows it's all within the same so that someone come and see you at the other end come on this one is this hopefully so some of the experiences in life and in the city center for the night the whole upper part of what's up all space with them on some of the ones in my vision of it meant to be more central kind of blocks out the video so we had to move it back did you see it's not something very long should be on for a lot longer that's what I hope to just sort out this afternoon I'm sure LaFace maze by tomorrow night well it's but it'll be worth it if there's enough officials are not happening without necessarily working completely yeah it's a bit like a few of the small programmable fans working properly but this fifty four all together for the moment working that's a lot to look at and beyond the limits of my technical ability being away from home to school now I need to work out the switching mechanism but that would be great would you like to listen on how you got involved with candy in terms of how I got involved account too I mean it's been a long process and it involves an individual %HESITATION nine concentric Stevenson who I suppose it's a little bit of a patron of the office of men across the page and in a sense to me I mean he's helped with a couple of projects I've been doing paying for me making work his ex's assist who runs a kind of a venture capital for startup companies ninety was involved in material testing so the big companies make money which is down in part reinvests in science but also helps artists to make work he done one projects approached him about doing another project with him with Susan and he said well I'm really interested in optogenetics and we went to a few talks and things and Susan spoke up and said well I think the team in new castle who I know very well I think that they use oxygen at six as a process in trying to do something and so we start with that and that was about five six years ago now and we came up and Susan and I made a series of joint prints that are on show by it's a kind of introduction and that was the beginning of it so we did that and then we so well we can also do that maybe we should apply for big public engagement money the sciences were very keen on it because I wanted to talk to the epilepsy community about that work and this is to be an opportunity to welcome was very keen on it so that you can use a very reasonable grounds to make work for over three years yeah so we've done about two years research for me about a year of making this work most time making the video and then the sculptures of components of it since then what's been good I think I've made ten works together maybe slightly more eleven works and they're all substantial I used to making things quite quickly go back to processes of making video and I was getting a little bit of help him on that when I used to do all the door and I handed the videos and live for the trees and everything and now I've got some people that will help me with that that makes it a lot easier in the last piece I made a large video projection like this was about the rights in meetings or X. two three days a week the door explorer so I was amazed by some editing and I was exhausted this one bicycle which works on three months and then we started to and it's a projection together it's a blend of drawings and photographs of myself in a kennel listings come into it I've kind of seen and experienced one of the things I'm kind of interested in those you know this notion of the trees where I live around Winchester called lots of them have missiles and the missiles I seem to me to be like a hundred points of epilepsy in the brain with this model of self selected quotes photographs of the supplier and they became incorporated and I quite like this idea of improving the missile type but in an impossible act maybe and that's where the up today text comes in really this operation on the implementation of the alternate into the brain will come when they call surgically remove that sentiment do something it's a kind of points of law school it's the last thing they can do that's what I hope so I think that's kind of interesting so deals with different issues of putting things into being watched as well with the sense of the op try being in that room the logarithm that's produced by people that are outside the body to you being controlled by the way I know we roll control in a way by other people but this very particular thing about one's body which has ownership and so the fat and the U. S. B. five piece of vein is very much about right it's got lots of quotes about being a cycle brings this kind of multiple person with a device inside it's being controlled and I often want to connect the real source of considerations legalities about all sorts of questions now arise about where we move in %HESITATION lines interesting question think of the big companies want us to own the impossibly helping us and not in a sense hold responsibility if they go wrong and that's a really interesting six of eight the not very clear about who it is that you think you owe them but I actually feel it's quite good that they own them that responsible thing go wrong and they have to put them right some interesting topics yes brings up a lot of ethical issues so I think the pieces vein or the one piece of the ads a tale of two is the piece that kind of not just those questions is not a simple story yes pros and cons of all of these things need to be well I mean the other big project I've been involved in for ten years it's been about heart transplants and that's really interesting because the psychological issues of having somebody else's hall all remains a very complicated for people people have contraceptives holding that in mind and the troubles of the times we have to talk about that and that's partly because with heart transplant when the patients come back to the hospital the very thankful for being alive they're very ready to scrub the complexities of the issues that they have for that and the team in the hot project sets out to interview the patient's personal spot in their own home and then you get a different story about a much more complex relationship in that case because it's a hot that's come from somebody else complex relationship with the donor and the donor's family I mean this is more complicated as well because %HESITATION option Essex County project will be putting in a locked into the price but it also has to affect genetically the cells near where the object is to make it work so they have to be basically primed to be affected by the blue light that the option will give out when it senses an epileptic attack coming and happening to suppress the cells that has to be introduced and so this genetic modification of human beings and that's put in by viral plexus people might be upset about that the virus has to be put into the body to deliver those options which of controlling settles into the right place so yeah very complex very interesting I think about who we are how we see ourselves through science you know and I think it affects all the think it helps is kind of on the stand %HESITATION cells by seeing what happens in the science and maybe a particular group or class of people because of patients can tell us less about who we are so I kind of understand the motives of and the different pathways and autistic Braden tells us what about what normally is cool what school the gradients to be known Johnson this is very interesting to discuss an introduction to pieces it's gonna actually working so if you see the blue lights and yeah the flash will come along with the sound levels go up please it's working because yesterday it was a complete asshole as you see that with the two lights sensors Watson and so it says Wilson from close to the lights around campus and see this one just a little bit from the other side yes so yes it's a nice invitation because you would not a medically thank that you can come around here could it feels about what because the signal is a tricky thing or something else yes this idea of something being a nurse just tidying up we've got to clear one on one assistance but yes seventies just small ponds fitted with LEDs that already the %HESITATION preponderance in that you could just buy a really but some of them I've also because yeah some of the program you can put words on them %HESITATION yes the case case blue jeans go this is a state I thought she should be more visible and that's one of the tweet controls are going to do is just west of the city okay just been fixing the subject of a number of this one which is not playing well the census compiled parts one and so is the idea that the oil will draw lines in this Sunday's are swimming media sensing the finance it's been slightly problematic in terms of health and safety of the lasers because lasers in my studio came down a lot lower now they have to be hopper because we don't want anybody looking into that directly there's all these things thanks in advance do you have an overall Air America for the exhibition is that of a communicating to the general population about it this is what it might be like for people with epilepsy or anything like that gentleman that perhaps it's small like you know the phone wants anything to be discussed it's about what the sciences it's about being kosher in the sense about what it gives us but it is telling us very much at the moment about who we are and how we are in the world and I think that we need a kind of critical forum for discussing that and I think this is a point to begin to think about that to have the discussion and I don't think that the exhibition is the totality of the asylum I think this consent provisions the workshops to schools things have been going on all of the other kinds of things are as important in fact in the hall project what remains of it that is these comes three day symposium where we get professionals and I would begin to unpack some of the issues and some of the issues then or even the weather so we've had specialist auctions prognosis saying oh I've got to change my approach I I haven't thought about this tool so we kind of seating ideas about things and and it's an option for me I'm an artist I'm not an illustrator what I'm saying that parents of love illustration and it's very good I'm not saying that illustration is pool robot you know it's part of it but it's more than that that's about to compensation and I think that's what artists do they have a call they could use a platform where things can be discussed in a wider more complex way and also just to signal things I mean I think that part of my job is to signal to the people of the young artists this is what you can do these are the possibilities you can use a commercial fan and you can make a piece of work about that thank you it's permissible to do that you know I started with this page and I still think on the payments by musing lights and there are other ways of achieving things and did not said this old well sort of levels I think which are work complex aspirin okay no good thank you so much for your time the phone you've been listening to audio visual cultures with very special guests seasonal Doris and Andrea Carney many thanks to the hot gallery for accommodating us as well this episode was hosted recorded edited and produced by polo player the music is coming grinds by our tone licensed under creative Commons noncommercial three point zero license and can be downloaded for MCC mixer dot org many thanks to membership Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your much appreciated support one of two nations to help keep this going are gratefully received as well at PayPal dot me forward slash PP a prior episodes are released every other Wednesday subscribe in your podcast app so you never miss an episode our fill back catalogue can also be finding you cheap if you date her on Instagram as safety cultures parts person please AP cultures on Facebook and Twitter if you'd like more information and useful links thanks so much for nesting and catching next time