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Audiovisual Cultures episode 31 – Frankenstein automated transcript


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hello this is the podcast that explores aspects assigned an image based cultural production and their wider implications I'm the host and creator Paul the pliers as this is episode thirty one and it's being released on the thirty first of October I thought I'd do a Halloween spectacular focusing on the story behind one of the most iconic faces of fright building on the last episode on the little stranger that went into the paranormal and adaptation this time but go back to where it all began with Mary Shelley's eighteen eighteen novel Frankenstein or the modern Prometheus and its impact on film and visual culture via theatre mainly focusing on the nineteen thirty one universal pictures classic Frankenstein is a story about a budding scientist who is consumed with the notion of creating life in nontraditional ways and in doing so brings but mass destruction Victor Frankenstein is the ultimate dead beat dads he abandons the creature he toiled so hard to create art of the detritus of tasks deeming the creature as a grotesque abomination Frankenstein refuses to face his responsibility for bringing it into the world the creatures monstrous behavior is incited by continual for Hammond to rejection in response to his gruesome appearance in physicality has life is so miserable that he fights to destroy his creator by killing his loved ones and wearing him dying over an arduous GS merry called when was a young woman of nineteen when she first conceived the story during the summer teen sixteen around that time she experienced various family debts including of her half sister funny and her first child with her lover Percy by Shelley whom she married later that year after his wife took her own life Frankenstein can be read as a family drama centering on a lack of parental nurture while their prime richer baby was dying Percy Shelley Galavant it with merry stepsister Claire Clairmont history also so involves the failure of communication and mutual support and the death of the gentlest most vulnerable members of a family name in this sense depict can be read as an imaginative re working of the author's left experience that is subjective allegory history originated when merry called when and Percy Shelley spent an unseasonably cold summer in Geneva Switzerland in eighteen sixteen with Claire Clairmont Lord Byron and John Polidori he published the first English language vampire story to from peer based on the TLC hard when traveling in the Balkans stuck indoors the group held a ghost story competition Godwin's ideas apparently developed from conversations about three contemporanea scientific proposals aimed at tackling the problem of violence and violence and being a skill if medical philosophy following the belief that non nothing and today's lack the vital spark or sold possessed by living organisms empirical scientific evidence has since the early nineteenth century superseded such ideas the proposals the group discussed where Rasmus Darwin's hypothesis that single celled parasites generates spontaneously the corpses could be restored using a galvanic battery and the third suggested reconstructing a body to be reanimated these romantics with a capital R. so these ideas as scope for county and lighten and soft tyre Mary Shelley herself engaged in the adaptation process for Frankenstein when she published a revised version in either team's thirty one and which narrative details are changed and some awkward writing and praised literary critic mired in Butler states in the Oxford reprint of the first taxed that the eighteen eighteen version is the more important and serious spec calling it a pioneering work of science fiction Butler also discusses Shelley's own knowledge of the works function %HESITATION position pointing out that in Shelley's preface to the eighteen thirty one reservation she contends quote with many signs that her tax originated and sophisticated satirical conversations which traded the gothic historically as a symptom of the feudal mentality and dusty occasion for a modern critical appropriation above all her action turns on the classically comic motive of the protagonists incompetence on quote Shelley appropriated the scientific thinking of her day and a heart wrenching S. grisly dramas that ultimately sends the message that love and being loved are all that matter in addition to this I college I used to reading by placing different versions of the story within their own contacts we can consider the story of Frankenstein as a malleable allegory reinterpreted both for each new generation and place of production throughout the rest of the nineteenth century there were many theatrical adaptations of the story and the film versions that led to the creatures globally recognizable iconography our doctors from the performance dramas rather than either version of the source taxed the first phone to stem from the east that we know of was made by Thomas Edison's company and a ride to nineteen ten and such silent era compressions verbal language is lost and fever of tableau depictions alongside the emergence and rice of synchronize signed and sent him out more talkies in the late nineteen twenties the studio systems in Hollywood which has come to dominate the global market by then we're beginning to forge marketable genres many genres and styles of filmmaking developed from the adaptation of existing stories many of which had already been me as has compressed silent one readers and cinemas first two decades from adaptations of what in the early twentieth century may have been considered low or middle priced examples of that gesture and Broadway theater the smaller studios like universal and Warner crafted for example early horror and musicals universal's nineteen thirties creatures features have injured with consistent cycles of updates including the dark universe series currently under way although it seems to have stalled a bit recently while monster movies are perhaps less respectable than hyper I. each in Austin or Shakespeare on film the universal pictures releases of adaptation psych Dracula and Frankenstein both in nineteen thirty one at least percentage pictorial realize Asians of what cinema can show the taxed cannot in the case of life imitating art a decade after the novel's initial publication Kim the park and hair martyrs and had number of William Burke and William hare work career for a purse or press erection men from Ulster he and eighteen twenty it took to murdering people and selling the bodies to Robert Knox one of the pioneers of anatomical study and teaching and the ticket is on clearer Frankenstein finds his supplies of body parts the nineteen thirty one film directed by James whale fills the blank by showing the nine named Henry Frankenstein played by Colin Clive and his accomplice Fritz played by Dwight Frye he also played around field and Dracula the same year retrieving the body of a hiring to mind and deter Fritz stating the wrong type of pre and from an anatomy lecture auditorium just on that name change and the universal film Victor Frankenstein has been given the first name of Victor's friend and then awful Henry clerical while his name has been transferred to a fiance Alyssa best friend Victor Moritz in the film and a love triangle between them and the less effective March is she is played by Mike Clark perhaps the irony of the connotations of the name are transferred as Henry is triumphant at the end of the film will factor laces site on Elizabeth that Fritz destroys the normal brand and must stand still the abnormal or criminal brain raises the issue of eugenics the belief that better human beings can be produced from selective breeding also notable here is sat Frankenstein senses servant to carry out the theft on his behalf he transfers to crime to human specimen lesser than himself in terms of class education and appearance frets as a hunchback while Henry is present degree of roping he directs frets his criminal activities are mediated by his servant absolving him of direct involvement in criminality it's notable does that Henry also passes on his romantic and familial responsibilities to Victor he never looks after Elisabeth himself Fritz and Henry and body the differences or lack there rose between normal and criminal brands the brands to generate characteristics as Henry picked sent banks a question of the characteristics of his and France's brilliance as they seem to have no ethical or moral compass and no empathy for fellow humans the notion of the line of thought coined as eugenics and the late nineteenth century first emerged with the ancient Greeks Shelley knew her Greek myths adding her fictional scientists about pantheon of gods ironically though Prometheus means for thought that love what Shelley's eponymous doctor has this is likely because the romantics saw Prometheus as a figure he strived so hard for improvements in human life he often over reached with unintended negative consequences Frankenstein mirrors but also sits in tension with the Greek Titans other traits Prometheus created a man from clay and to fight the chords by stealing fire for which she was severely punished he is highly intelligent champions human kind and give them the resources that enabled their progress Frankenstein fancies himself as a modern Prometheus updated in the nineteen thirty one film as Henry saying now I know what it feels like to be called meaning the cost of monotheistic Christianity he created a defined burst but the creation does not here to the plan like humans depicted and religious to acts such as the Christian Bible the creation wants to determine its own life and destiny like the floods the solution to combat its disobedience is to destroy the experiments Henry it's not so much punished for his blasphemy but is taught some humility and convinced of the proper order of things by the end he is absolved and forgiven by his family and Tignes folk even though they suffered because of his hubristic and short sighted vanity projects zero eight Henry claims to be perfectly sane it is his morals the need to be questions the fact that few do you question them under one person Dr Waldman who does is killed and it certainly faia Henry's negligence is troubling given the Frankenstein families high social standing his father is a Baron Henry's ability to get away unpunished on questions and on ski it's with his disregard for the consequences of his actions it's evidently dying to his privilege and social status another example of how I found even when compressing and changing and novels narrative can also redress its emissions occurs in the pivotal scene of the creatures animation and Shelley's tax this scene is sketch basically and vaguely and one short paragraph here is the eighteen eighteen version and which Victor Frankenstein the kind stay experience making it seem like a supernatural phenomenon it was on a jury every night in November that I beheld the accomplishment of my toils with an anxiety that almost a mind to tie Kinney I collected the instruments of life around me that I might infuse a spark of being into the lifeless thing that lay at my feet it was already one in the morning the rand powdered dismally against the peons and my condo was nearly burned to each plan by the glamour of the half extinguish lights I saw the total yellow hi if the creature opened it breathed hard and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs when the film takes over the role of narrator the V. Jill spectacle is privileged what matters is the audience's reaction and engagement and the wonder and horror erupting into life as a witness and wheels film we also witnessed the emerging trademarks of a franchise and the spectacle of horror that would excite the audience who've been for warned of the spectacular reanimation by the address at the film's opening the framing device such as a actor Edward found Sloan who plays Henry's mentor Dr Waldman onstage cautioning the fears on harder to come is identified as a method of adjustment and adaptation studies and an instance of expansion and a story that has otherwise been compressed and shifted to have big time yet it does in a way reflect the bank's own framing device as a story related by Walton the arctic explorer and letters to his sister understaffed %HESITATION Xing the epistolary narrative presentation the problem stoker waited out for Dracula later in the nineteenth century a film like Frankenstein can be considered as a hybrid adaptation and that it departs from the original but remains treatise on authorized later versions the animation scene became so pivotal and theatrical and cinematic treatments of the story because it bears the most potential for drama thrills suspense and visual spectacle while retaining the strangeness of its original description what is so spectacular about this first feature length film of the story as such the reanimation is dependent on electric charge as of course is cinnamon as Thomas each point site in his pick adaptation and its discontents films about reincarnation are often themselves reincarnations monsters and medicine carnations that can never really die whale's Frankenstein is an example of a tax that goes beyond adjustment on instead revises the source taxed mysteries are transposed and changes are made for the purposes of re contextualize ation films like Wales based on the nineteenth century gothic fiction re write the stories and rather than denigrating the pics the films on one level and getting critical assessments of them an introductory framing device is also present in the sequel to bride of Frankenstein released in nineteen thirty five and also directed by we'll this time it is free and this merry Shelly narrating the story to Percy Shelley Lord Byron this film is a revision of volume two of the pick and which the creature relates this tale of how he learns language and desires a mate of his own kind Elsa Lancaster plays both Mary Shelley and the creatures meant he is animated and the finale and credited simply as a question mark and the closing credits which is the same as the creature and the opening credits of Frankenstein and similar to the a name of a creature they said in the first theatrical production in eighteen twenty three while there is long understates conflation between Frankenstein and his creature the bride of Frankenstein does this with the author and her creation both the story and defeated brides the story is re contextualized in the sense that Shelley's novel was anti scientific warning of the dangers of meddling too much with the natural order and based on medical research in Europe at the time and nineteen thirties Hollywood there was a fascination with scientific discovery pushing the limits of possibility and of course use an artificial life for becoming demands and obsessions already intense full time the film's irony lies in the fact that dialogue could not be heard but the articulate voice the creature develops in the bank never emerges just a monstrous grown fashioned by actor Boris Karloff in the first film and spar statements in the second in many ways the creature reflects the nature of sentiment thinking again about his story and film as allegory the themes in Frankenstein and create ostracism of of being perceived as a deviantart cider technological innovation first this is supernatural and morally ambiguous monsters and victims it's hard to tell which is which and theatrical productions from as early as eighteen twenty three the monster was voiceless and infantile wild Frankenstein surf and frets he goads the creature with others the creatures innocence and sense of morality and justice arm up to fight on the implied fears empathy grows as we witnessed him being tortured by the idiotic and contemptuous frets political reading suggests that the creature personifies violent radicalism while the inept liberal politician who unleashed problems is helpless against them it is natural then that when transferred to cinema the creature symbolism would become equally relevant to the medium as well as T. I. she's in contemporary society and sentiment dad passed moments and people are revived reanimated made on dad's like sentiment the creature is the product of technological innovation and experimentation like a film tax to creature comprises still fragments spliced together to form a whole entity that is given movement that is scientifically explicable it seems to many of us like magic and develops a life of its own I do for each of its creators thinking here by the film's capacity for reply and the legacy in popular culture of the film and its characters their iconography remains classical must developing along with the contemporary like sentiment in mute creature one way or another finds its voice his existence is given a degree of immortality adaptations ensure the survival of characters like him the cinematic nature islands the interchangeable idia Frankenstein with his creation are communicated visually in the nineteen thirty one films finale noted Plato episode nineteen twenty seven play by Peggy Webb playing from which this film is directly adopted that first gave the name Frankenstein to the creature after his maker directly linking their fractured and merry Chang identities a sequence in the film that signify says is one in much detail at first race face each other through the turning mechanism of %HESITATION when males interior as light passes three it's and casts on Karloff's creature it looks like a film projector while the divisions and the spending mechanism resemble individual film frames passing through the machinery the sequence cuts back and forth between close ups of the two faces seeing each other through the wheel and the shots the film evokes sentiments even nation from already moving image devices such as the Jewish trope and C. praxis scope as it faces almost planned to gather in the rapid sequencing and a wide shot of the Moabites site the milk they L. there is a merger but it is unclear who they're pointing up at as the river shot shows both Henry and the creature when the scuffle seems to be over with Henry the apparent factor that he's alive exclamation as repeated further converging the creator and his progeny the final sequences of the film are perhaps where it deviates most from the novel rather than driving Frankenstein tear torturous deaths the creature instead meets a tragic end and the fire sacked by the angry Lynch mob formed after he accidentally joins that'll Maria and exemplary moment of blame culture and racial prejudice the mop violently chased him to his fiery death of course he isn't quite dead and as a precursor to all such cinematic undead murderous phantoms returns for more in the sequel the images at the film's climax have much to say about eight thirty nineteen thirty CSA as well as what could be shown and pre Hayes code Hollywood the film may be set vaguely in central Europe but the issues are prevalent in north American society and politics the disused mill is the site of Frankenstein's lab on the creatures birthplace the young thinking mob and the urgency to kill the thing they do not understand burn dine this place if industry science and creation the fire spreading up the windmill shown and a long shot invokes the cross burning K. Klux Klan under violent persecution of African Americans the times folks who need little evidence thought or discussion to form of vigilante Lynch mob not to capture but to kill the creature reflects real intolerance and serious violence against those of third and society notably Henry feels the idea of exterminating the creature is murder but has no qualms about taking bodies and creating a life from parts of cadavers it is only after the creatures attempt to communicate with a less oppress the Henry grace T. and seats the lynching on the wedding date the cried celebrating the heteronormative upper class union quickly become defense full mop without considering the issues at stake the death of the young girl is caused by the combination of the naive creature and both their negligent fathers with an absence of mothers both Maria and the creature are innocent children she shows him kindness but he used to be infantile to know his own strength and possesses no language yet her father and the Chinese people decide that the dry and Maria was murdered with a question or investigation no one take self responsibility it is perfectly possible that she could have trying to applying a loan why has a child for each living so close to water where she's allowed to play alone never been taught to swim there is no evidence of the creature or in fact any kind of unknown assailants no one checks the girl for cause of death no one questioned her father who walks through the time carrying her lifeless body no one blames Henry as the creator of the creature and he certainly doesn't blame himself the comment times tracks back from Henry showing his lack of responsibility for the life he created and hi it's resistance to maltreatment pits the times people and his loved ones in danger the camera also tracks back when the creature goes for Elisabeth suggesting that the lack of responsibility is also experienced by the film's implicit narrator and by extension the audience returning to the family narratives the nineteen twenties and thirties and Hollywood so increasing interest in psychoanalysis and the Frankenstein creature dynamic couldn't be more easy to pull in the film the creature takes a shine to Elizabeth Henry Frankenstein's fiancee if Frankenstein is the creatures father than Elizabeth is at least the step mother to baby and this operation of life making if we take Shelly as the creatures mother and another sense than else along casters to roll a Shelley and the bride to page the analogy even further he tries to do away with his father to find happiness with his mother and the pics though the creature kills Elisabeth on the wedding night to make factor suffer the Hollywood version sees Elizabeth surviving as a price for Henry and his means to create a son of natural births this correction of Henry's behavior reduces the potential queerness of Frankenstein's relationship with his creation for much of the film Frankenstein is immersed in the homo social world of body snatching and scientific experimentation we learned early on from Melissa best conversation with family friend Victor Henry's experiments began after their engagement he uses his work to resist heteronormative domesticity marriage an undertaking familiar two days namely producing a male heir to carry on the family Snowblind at least in what is regarded as the natural way his resistance to committing to your woman and the social mores of its class perhaps indicates homosexuality or at least a preference for self pleasure he spends more time with friends and allies the best and he cannot create the creature alone and the fact it has two fathers both of him abuse and neglect him Henry sexuality is further cleared and debased and the creatures animation the raw materials for the manufactured sun rise through a hole in the roof at the top of the mills tar a lightning storm creates a frenzied climax and Henry repeatedly exclaims it's alive all the actions to create life combine and exert of performance and Henry serenity after the animation is almost post coital the creation manifests an anxiety over women biological conception and birth thing that is women sleeper and place in society the depicted home a social world of science and effective of the tournament progeny for the heights of Frankenstein must be if woman born the meal %HESITATION night mother this creation of life is seen as a poor aunt and unnatural this gives rise to the abuse of the creature showing high it becomes monstrous he is the progeny of what is viewed as an unnatural union and the silenced victim of domestic abuse provoked into defensive actions that scene and a blinkered way make him seem inherently violent mostly because he cannot communicate his experiences that is not to say that no one is willing to try and isn't very it knows the creature is inherently goods and does not fear him Elizabeth also senses something amiss on her wedding day but she does not share the child's lack of fear of difference even if she could articulate her intuition Henry is unwilling to lessen unlocks for sites and a sense of responsibility he finished he locks her in with the danger of safety in company but the creature decides not to harm her he has not yet become vindictive the importance of the story Frankenstein and its impact on culture should not be underestimated on the bicentenary of the novel's first publication this is an endearing story and symbol of the risks of human achievement and the darkest recesses of human nature not only that but merry wells and craft Shelley Nagel it when the daughter of an early feminist activist long before such a thing was a notion at just twenty years old give us a story if you press desk grief and destruction that not only spawned a life of its own but the science fiction genre and influences across media she could never have anticipated I hope some of these ideas cause a bit of discussion because there's a lot more to say about all of this if you find this useful they're interesting please consider making a regular pads via Petri on dot com forward slash AV cultures or donating to pay pal dot me forward slash PDA prior to sustain and improve the podcast subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode and sure why not give it five stars thanks to all previous episodes are listed on the podcast page of the website at forty of visual culture style wordpress dot com thanks very much for this the next time
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Audiovisual Cultures episode 92 – Horror, Film History and Irish Cinema with Dr Gary D. Rhodes automated transcript


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this is audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and culture of production with me Paula Blair visit Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures to find out more and to join the policy welcome to another audio visual cultures podcast I am polo player and deployed to I have a treat for you today I am beyond excited to welcome filmmaker and historian Dr Gary D. roots Gary thank you so much for joining me hi are you and where do we find G. well we find this in many places during a pandemic mainly I suppose the best dancers at home like we're so often confine let me start by saying thanks so much for inviting me to talk %HESITATION I've noted your research for years and so it's always great to have the chance to chat with you though I'm physically in Orlando Florida now my part of my heart always belongs to the north of Ireland where we first met but more than anything else the best answer like I guess we will give us %HESITATION and hold you know in the middle of this horrendous play sets just as you mentioned that there anyway Carrie and just for listeners to carry and I have known each other for I would say it longer than either of us wants to add minutes to remind my grey hair anyway mine's coming might mean well on the way later the batter's eye below there's also there's always hair dye I'm definitely considering that right now so you like you know you're always like fabulous I had the privilege of being taught spicy garlic when he arrives at queen's university Belfast in two thousand five and that was the final year of my undergraduate degree and she also %HESITATION where the internal examiner for my peach state which is very exciting remember all I remember all of it very well I was so excited to get to Belfast means and it was so great the entire cohort of students you work hard on or so such extremely creative intelligent and dedicated students far more than I'd work with at the undergraduate level before it was extremely exciting and of course we shared an interest in Irish cinema and that became of course quirk to your PhD work and so I was so proud to be a small part of that process and and your success with that project no that's very kind Kerry you've been writing more picks than I can keep up west so I think it be nice said start talking about some of the methods okay and really get into a your research areas so we'll see what where you want to go with this it might be you get sick at the most recent thing out of the way because what we're all living through the man it is quite relevant something you from working on anyway which I like to tell us a bit about your hi cinema has been affected by epidemics research of course thank you yeah thank you for that question it's an area of research that became very interesting to me many years ago I was actually an undergraduate at the time and I was going through as it is interested in film history I was going through these old publications like variety The Hollywood Reporter and all of those and I would be turning the pages and looking for things of interest to me on subjects like the horror film one of my other areas of interest I kept seeing over and over again in these old publications yellowing crumbling publications from the nineteen twenties thirties forties I kept saying so many movie theater tragedies that had affected audiences and some of them we we maybe know a little bit about a film like %HESITATION inglorious bastards the queen Tarantino film for example picks up on the flammability of film and the fact that some fire sometimes happens it could kill people and so I was saying those things as they occurred in American these old newspapers these old trade publications and I kept saying over and over again and I started photo copying all of it because I thought there is you know I've never heard about this and it was five years and it was bombings it was sometimes murders that people would use the darkness of the movie theater to shoot another person for example all these very tragic stories but I found quite interesting in that they were so forgotten and it ended up culminating in a book of mine over a debt about a decade ago called the perils of movie going in America you know all these regrettably bad things could happen by just going to the movies but one part of it that I should now introduces the fact that along with everything I've just mentioned and other horrors you know they were they were unfortunately you know people would get groped frankly in the darkness you know %HESITATION so there was sexual assaults and things that would happen I mean a lot of this of course exacerbated by the cover of darkness because you know what it's a rather interesting thing although we're so used to in today's world to go into a movie theater it's set in the darkness with strangers all around as you know that was a rather new thing to do at the end of the nineteenth century to plunge into darkness with strangers but with all of the horrible things that could happen one of the others that became a chapter was the sheer number of pandemics and epidemics that affected movie going a century ago and even a little more recent the most famous of the move would have been the nineteen eighteen influenza the great influenza pandemic so much has been said of it lately where century later it's I suppose and pandemic terms the nearest example the nearest touchstone for us during all of this that's true for our movie going situation as well and so that became so much of what I was writing about in that book although there were other epidemics like polio like scarlet fever those tended to be more %HESITATION regional in America more short term you know shutting down a feature for a few weeks sometimes they were moored strictly demographic you know sometimes that theaters would remain open during polio epidemics but children Morgan made it because they were the ones that would contract Holyoke but the pandemic of nineteen eighteen cost most theaters in America to shop for about half of nineteen eighteen hands in an eerie precursor to today's world to re open and then have to shut again because of the surges of second way each you know the desire for everybody for their own mental health but also on the exhibitor side of the fence to start making money again to not go out of business to be able to sell movie theater seats again take a it's again so so this is something of my research is actually began when I was an undergraduate it ended up being a book and %HESITATION it's interesting how I don't know if it's the return of the repressed or what it is but you can do a project and then years later only years later is its relevance maybe %HESITATION or becomes more Roman you know the research because right when the pandemic fit and everything began to shop in America in March of twenty twenty I got a phone call from the Chicago Tribune saying Hey it looks like you're the only person that you know has written about this before and then that led to me talking more about it writing my own updates about it in the New York Daily News and and elsewhere because it's one of those moments where hopefully you know our research can have meaning for the world outside of a dusty library shelf yeah well I mean in a way it quite fits with your interest in horror because it is quite all horrific in its own way all of that stuff yes very much so in fact my op ed in the New York Daily News was published at Halloween last year and it was actually in some ways drawing the very connection you're talking about including the red death and post famous story the masque of the red death to our present situation because a lot of horror films have been horror stories traditionally have been about plagues both real like the bubonic plague as well as kind of concocted like post story did creating it like for the sake of of scaring people and and these things have continued through the years you know I know there's a getting some slight contagion have obviously been watched probably and thought about probably as much or more the past years when they were first you know released so there is a a very scary you know connection here one of George Romero's stating horror films you know where I'm going is always are at two steps ahead of me crazies your main course Romero having been the director of night of the Living Dead and dawn of the dead most famously but he made some of the crazies about a an epidemic and of course that was remade even World War Z. %HESITATION you know some of some of the zombie craze of recent years some of the stories about how the zombies get started or a pandemic related epidemic related as I recall it was probably the first season of the walking dead yeah where the journey of survival was leading to the CDC Erica Yoon the center for disease control and that's another odd thing I haven't I haven't really thought that much about it or written that much about it but clearly that there is a curiosity however accidental and so many zombie films in America being about epidemics pandemics in the years not too many years before and leading up to our present situation I think twenty eight days later it comes from monkey so there's that species jump that happens is quite interesting to think about it nine oh yes which is very fast and because obviously there's talks about where did this come from was it from a bad or so forth and that's been true of some prior diseases and epidemics and so forth in in human history in order they originating from other species of animals it's true of the folklore too isn't it because you know you get bit by a vampire you know and %HESITATION you know unless you like the empires and sometimes I should go for it but but you know so well either well or or rob but there is that characteristic you're Ryan and twenty eight days later was Gus was such a watershed moment I think for a lot of us that are interested in horror films and interested in British horror films and how it was seen at the time to really inject new life into and may be injected in a pandemic world is even an interesting word but inject new life into the British horror film that was so well known in the sixties and seventies and and it's very much again a key into and and maybe pressing of our current situation would certainly I don't mean to make light of what we're trying to study and understand it and %HESITATION and not make light of it but I do think that there are some interesting yeah there so there's a lot of interesting interactions between horror and %HESITATION plagues including our current pandemic yeah I suppose that's not saying is playing out scenarios I find in the arts so the movies are there a matching necklace what happened this could be the series of events that happens and you know but if people are in their own may face at the minute I specific way of understanding what's happening to us because we're paid in our little boxes were stuck at home I suppose we've only got our imagination I don't really know where I'm going with that I'm just thinking sorry if it's just playing out scenarios of what could potentially happen because there's such a big difference between a maybe like a zombie land and twenty eight days later ones very serious in the other one isn't spring yet there by essentially the same thing %HESITATION yes yes well and that makes my mind go fast and so many places that your faults there because you're raising so many interesting issues and and I think that certainly there's this fascinating connection between horror and comedy yeah you know as genres maybe two sides of the same coin sometimes they've been set aside I think that they're two of the most consistently popular genres in film history they both emerged basically in the eighteen nineties and they they really don't have much of a of a period of disappearing honest in the way that say musicals or western institute the consistent popularity of boats and everything from what we might call dark comedy which can be so often in horror films to the fact the company itself is I think inherently subversive somebody is so often on the end of the joke so to speak you know that maybe a lot of people are laughing children you know on a playground but then there's the one crying because they're the one being made fun of you know comedy can be rather in its own way so cruel so I think that there's some real connections there and I think that that's true throughout horror film history which we see played out in in two basic ways that one would be that the serious horror films in many cases what inject moments of comedy relief comic relief the idea particularly in areas like the nineteen twenties thirties and afterwards forties fifties we'll have something really scary but then we'll have somebody make a joke of it a couple of minutes later to help the idea was to relieve the tension of the movie goer it's just been put through the trauma of screen terror and then across the other trajectory if there's two main ones the other trajectory would be that kind of zombie land approach where the horror and comedy or combined it wants into something that may be dark I mean one of the things that always attracted me about certain types of Irish literature going back you know would be the darkly comic sensibilities and I think horror at times has gone down that road where horror and comedy or in other words he added he ends in creating the sensations and sometimes at those moment very peculiar situate sensations and emotional responses because you know when something's darkly comic does it frighten us do we laugh we laugh is is it an uncomfortable kind of laughter I think all of that's very fascinating and I think you're right that the imagination can help in these ways and sometimes it's maybe life imitating art or art imitating life and maybe it's an interesting I think in the history of horror even thinking back before cinema you know literature painting visual culture folklore there's kind of I think interesting kind of dance macabre here when you talk about twenty eight days later on I'm reminded one of my forthcoming publications is about the unproduced film revolts of the dead which would have been in nineteen thirty two or like thirty two early thirty three film directed by tod Browning okay Brandon was very yeah you know Browning I'm not in the list probably due in may nineteen thirty one Dracula you may nineteen thirty to fill freaks he's considered one of the you know one of the great horror film directors of course like all directors there were projects he wanted to do that didn't happen and I was able to locate all of his notes in the script drafts for a film that he never made in a forthcoming book and it's called revolt of the dead hand of course Browning live through the pandemic of nineteen eighteen nineteen and his film revolt of the dead seems like it's harking back to the nineteen eighteen epidemic because it's about a kind of a %HESITATION route in which doctor that wants to turn the whole world into the living dead knitting which spread across the whole world you know like like twenty eight days later like a %HESITATION World War Z. you know he's basically wanted to create albeit with kind of a supernatural origin a kind of pandemic of the Living Dead and in the script increasingly people start getting knocks on their door from dead relative it's who aren't the same people go to movie theaters they go to restaurants that go to the to the night clubs for young people used to maybe go more often for dancing and music and soon the dead infected dad over populate the living and and M. scary where you literally in the script you go to a restaurant and they're more dead people at it then there are the living and so this is kind of I think what you're talking about you know that it's a I think it's an interesting dance where it's back and forth you know I mean I think as so often he was in horror you know PO weekend with the mask of the red death was kind of a pressing it ahead of the game in some ways you know so it's fascinating it's it's horrifying but it's very from state from a scholarly terms as well as I think moviegoing turns audience terms you know these things can help us I think that's one of the great things about horror potentiality Horace to be cathartic to be scared through entertainment but maybe from the safety of our of our whole social media says it's probably a good please send CV asking a bait probably one of your best known picks UP the birth of the American horror film because certainly those of us who are young we think we invented everything and actually as you say it started right at the start of cinnamon I suppose for anybody listening he might be under the misconception that old films and silent films are very stuffy industry at a fast what would you say about that well I I'm always looking for ideas here about convincing people of the merits of going back to look at earlier years of failed and even how to work with the young filmmakers and %HESITATION young film students and so forth you know how to get them interested in hearing aids before for example in the twenty first century %HESITATION especially a period of black and white cinema of even silent films the earliest days of cinema I don't know the best approach to getting people I've tried various mechanisms to get them excited I think there's a few ways that I try and not least of which is the fact that some of the best known filmmakers today certainly in the western way well certainly in my home country of America would be people like Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino filmmakers whose films and their careers their interviews everything about them exemplify that their achievements and and and and I will be in the limit to just those two but there are two examples of names most people I think now they're films constantly reference built upon the tradition of cinema they are lifelong students of film history and and they of course attribute their success in some measure to their knowledge of film history and we can go back to so many other filmmakers right think that's true as well some of the great film makers are among the biggest collectors of film history and film memorabilia and so forth because they love the cinema and if you love the cinema there's not a starting date on it in other words you can love films made before the year two thousand and I think also I would say to younger filmmakers or trying to convince people to share my hopefully boundless enthusiasm and passion is if you're wanting to make great films the film genres we love have existed so long be it comedy or horror as we've already said or others if you're wanting to develop script ideas if you're wanting to think about cinema in your own ideas being part of the genres indeed we could argue the film itself is a genre I argue that in the same way Mekelle box used to argue that the novel was a genre whatever its topic or focus speed a western novel or a you know a drama or what have you but it all still in other words what we try to argue is that you can find incredible ideas in the past it can be because the genre is always reinvention it's building on what has been done before the cinema is about that sometimes obviously in the form of direct remakes you know as we talk a new Texas chainsaw massacre film is about to come out the first one was made in the seventies so sometimes this of course most obviously happens with the three makes but it could have been more vague ways with story lines with themes it can happen even with you know I I grew up loving George Lucas there still the Star Wars universe multiverse whatever it is universe I suppose with the Mandalorian everybody loves and Amanda Morgan is doing what Lucas did in the seventies by using a lot of white transitions fallen out of favor for decades but that he loved from the nineteen thirties films and serials he watched in so it doesn't have to be about finding old story lines that are interesting about finding some techniques that were popular once upon a time but not as much now and so I think here is in Willits fountain an incredible reservoir of possible inspiration of all types for young filmmakers even in direct terms right before I came to Ireland this spring before I came what I ride in Ireland in the north of Ireland that full in Belfast at queens and met you in so many wonderful students the previous spring I had my last group of American students and one of them wanted to make a short film called director's cut that was going to be a short horror movie and the cut was going to have in the title more than one meeting as you can gather probably going you know the slasher time about ourselves he got fairly far along before he realized and then I met him and had to relay the unfortunate news nectar already did a film called director's cut it was a horror film that at least in the most basic idea that you get from that title it had been done before and so I think even if you're committed to doing something extraordinarily noted perhaps you're interested in all of Asgard or experimental you want to do something that's never been done before it does help to know film history so you're not reinventing the wheel as that student was trying to do and fortunately he moved on to another project and that was wonderful for him but he had gotten far long before I met him with something that was on knowingly copy and past so if you are going to work with the past it's best to do of course is a very knowing away which is one of the things course yeah that we love about people like Quentin Tarantino and again so many other filmmakers that work in this same kind of way no yeah so I wanted to see Askey a fight your work on political safe because you've written probably I I don't know maybe the most comprehensive biographies of lego say and because he is a figure that we certainly anyone who knows her stuff about horror film they know he's out is so I was wondering if you would mind if there are any listeners may be younger listeners who don't know who you were talking about aids or you know as you mentioned earlier he was Dracula he was Dracula yes it's hard grinding struck in that you know and that was back with the universal horror the creature features in a way that they were doing in the nineteen thirties but that was you know one of the first ones to snatch but that wasn't all he did he had such an extensive career and credit tumultuous life I think is while I mean would you be happy to to tell us a bit of bite yes well I I would love to and I suppose in different periods would go see has been known for different reasons for example when I first met you and I was first starting to work with some of the first year students in Ireland in courses like introduction to film I would sometimes show them Tim Burton's movie ed wood because it depicted let go see a very tragic late in his life it was a Tim Burton film that dramatized you know starring Johnny Depp and Martin Landau the dramatized the most tragic Lugosi's life and and I would show it to first year students stand because they they would remember that the film to come out when they were ten years old a war or or and heard about it and of course now it's much further in time from the release of that film and it was in other words a bit of a more modern touchstone for me to talk about legacy then and now it's very much passed into the past so speak from another century now we're now we're much cheaper but more than twenty five years I guess talking with people who may not know Lugosi I suppose now the best way is the white first white would be the way that most people have historically known who he is throughout the world and I think he connects a little bit with our our last exchange because it is a way in which film and by extension popular culture so often reinvents or builds on the past even in ways that sometimes audiences aren't aware in America this past Halloween there was a commercial for a candy bar we would call them here chocolate bar I think you might say called kit kat our colleague as overall used to eat the every morning when I would have T. within United also they're known for their note elsewhere in the world but they're popular they were popular here in America and it was it was a commercial thirty second TV commercial where Dracula in the usual dress the Cape the clean face shape shaven face pretty good looking hair slicked back black hair and affecting a kind of a of an eastern European kind of Hungarian slash remaining accent was on there pouting and of course wanting to sink his teeth into a kit kat candy bar and that commercial is even available to go see died in nineteen fifty six that commercial was him in in a sense refracted at least through popular culture reincarnated through popular culture there is a children's cereal in America known as Count Dracula its mascot from the nineteen seventies until to day is another of those imitators I suppose is another term we could use there's an extent to which even later Dracula's although still not known necessarily to younger people later Dracula's of the screen white Christopher Lee and Franklin Jela their depictions of Dracula drool calmly go see it particularly to the extent that in Bram stoker's novel Dracula was very different in appearance than the way we think of Dracula including on that kit kat commercial at any time if anybody affects the voice the Kate a so much of what we think of of Dracula in popular culture is not from Bram stoker's norm rather from Bela Lugosi actually what most people know most readily rather than say the long white mustache that he hasn't stoker's novel it's much more let go see who played even in nineteen thirty one film previous to that on Broadway and he turned Dracula in some ways a monster yes a supernatural vampire yes into this kind of alluring sexualized vampire so much of folklore the vampire was often repulsive and obviously vampires do repulsive things you know biting people drinkable yada yada but we go see really turned vampire I think we see this again in ways like we even there's a character named Bella in twilight films yes you know and yes different double go see some P. and Baylor would be the proper pronunciation of course right we do it in American a lot of places people did refer to informatics careers Bela Lugosi but regardless this whole notion that the vampire could be sensual the vampire could be sexualized and attractive yet even hypnotic another aspect of the vampire we think about %HESITATION often the hypnotic on ice and instilled throughout the decades sometimes this coincides with cinematography to have the extreme close up of the ice trading on ice it noted our eyes and victims who sometimes maybe don't mind being the victim because the vampire and in later films even as women vampires but the vampire become so sexualized and attractive and sexy frankly in the twentieth century until now all of that begins really most of that I should say not all but most of that begins with Lugosi's on screen depiction in nineteen thirty one and in various respects he keeps crying role throughout the rest of his life to the extent that he was literally buried in his Dracula okay so much for the two intertwined and mild saying and I I you know I don't want to self plagiarize but I think if you announce that you can say it because I've written more than once then life will go see play Dracula after his death Dracula has played Lugosi by that I mean that that again what we think of as Dracula is as much or more like go see as it is Bram Stoker that's how it was and I you know I saw those spooky movies on television as a little child and they will be in the same way I guess go story so often three little children I grew up when they were still showing black and white films on TV so I started singing in the late seventies even though he was by then long since deceased fascinated and have gone on as you kindly point out to write about it and and that's been a great deal of fun and some of the projects that come out of that have been enjoyable I think that Dracula it's a nice example of quite an early sign Diarra film designed area was quite firmly establish I think by that point and I think they were doing some very exciting things with audio at that time I think it's something that you covered I remember in teaching was the influence of a lot of emigre directors because a lot of the directors were talking about you were making the sums were British or they were German or Austrian or that sort of thing so %HESITATION you know there's that influx of that expressionist training coming over here's one of his last teaching I taught am I showed it for signs yes you know so I thought it was a nice example of a film from that %HESITATION already signed area that is actually really challenging said technology at the time yes you know I was wondering if you if that was something that he thought of I know you don't ma'am may be necessary to USA a static so much no I love it and the stakes are so much wonderful part of the horror film and a film history and even the history of a statics becomes I think so fascinating as you're rightly pointing out and I love it and I do try to write about it and I and I love the pier you're talking about because you know there's moments in film and I think we some of us have lived through it with the rise of C. GI the rise of digital projection the rise of motion capture where new technologies because a major change to cinema and this happens I think in some ways very much constantly you know the film theorist Andre Bazin used to say that film is constantly evolving which meant in his mind and I'm paraphrasing that still has yet to be invented exactly because it's always turning as he said rightly into something else you always turning into something else I think what you're pointing out that so crucial is there are particular moments of major technological upheaval because much more maybe profound change than at other moments and the introduction of sound was very clearly one of them but on that point you're pointing out of early sound is so profound because and I write about it in my next forthcoming journal article is for the journal popular film music and it's about the seconds all talking film in America which was called the terror it was released in the second half of nineteen twenty eight a lot of people would have you been seen it in the Halloween season of nineteen twenty eight and it was based on a story by Edgar Wallace and it was one of these kind of we would call them old dark house stories that were popular at the time where a lot of people gather either in an old house original tale in the middle of the night people getting start getting killed and even if the killer turns out to be just somebody wearing a mask there's a feeling that maybe there's the supernatural is a play and so forth it was the first of what we I suppose in retrospect would call a horror movie Insel neck it's playing with sound no it doesn't do it nearly as well as and because your use of and is the very best example and obviously by one of the master renters and one of the master directors who became emigrate as you rightly point out to Hollywood has never some of the others like Karl Freund who work with laying the great cinematographer who came from Germany to America ended up shooting Dracula in nineteen thirty one unit of directing one of the early universal horrors that follow Dracula which was the mummy in nineteen thirty two some people will probably think of it maybe the %HESITATION the Tom Cruise version or something in recent times you never know the remakes or the re inventions of these bottles so much of that was with the immigrate culture or stories coming from other countries and the terror was a British story but what most interestingly did it's a lost film but we have the sound discs because some of the first talkies they would have what was basically the equitable large record if you can imagine a large audio record music record and it would play in sync with the film being projected it was not a great system I mean if somebody bumps the needle the sound would be a synchronous and had a problem but for some early talkies even after lost films we cannot watch the films there's photographs from the terrible we can't watch it but the sound discs are there %HESITATION and I was able to access them and write about them for the first time and we start to get which you would probably expect in film sample we still get it and we'll get it in I suspect like the next conjuring film or what have you and ideas the sound of the human screened for the first time we get the sound of the screen but we also get the sound of the storm the sound of heavy winds through the trees and some of the sounds that we associate it certainly before film sound people associated with things that were frightening you know a lightning bolt or whatever that might frighten a child were you know a pet dog or whatever and they start to show up in the terror the very first time and it becomes very quickly adopted as a static in subsequent mystery horror films in nineteen twenty nine and thirty to the extent that by nineteen thirty there was a comedy a short that you can find on you tube called the laurel party murder case with laurel and hardy and third old house the middle the nights we can happen it's all take off on the second story you know to an extent knives out in more recent times has done some of this so again you know this never goes away keeps being reinvented but in the long run hardy version they so overdue the sound effects as to parity it's a fascinating example in nineteen thirty only a couple of years after you know a few years after sounds felt they were already prepared like we're laying on extra thick for the joke and then taught Browning immediately after makes Dracula in sound what you were asking about and he forgoes heavy thunder and lightning he for ghosts spooky music in favor of much more subtle sound effects like complete quiet except the creaking of the coffin lid opening in and trying to be much more restrained and it's so interesting because it is such an early point in film sound relatively speaking I mean you know three four years he's pulling back rather than laying it on thick and so it's interesting how these things you know can sometimes evolve quickly and how much is that expire role in the horror film including sound whether it's the spooky music or the spooky sound effects or the silence dates for the silence and that's what some of us love the most or or sometimes in horror films it's another reason to think so wonderfully about silent films it's a reason to think about parts of Dracula the talk Browning which are no music no dialogue I think one of the interesting things and we we have guests have the old phrase deals slang phrase you know that silence speaks volumes or phrases like that it it you know in America grew up hearing phrases like that may be used to get me to shut up but you know it was you know there is that I think that's one of the great things it's it's like you know when you can have a special effect when you can have moving camera sometimes the makers forget that they can let it stay still when you can collect extremely rapidly filmmaker sometimes forget that they can have slow paced and when you can do anything with still sound incredible possibilities now we can forget sadly what you've just rightly mentioned which is silence can be so very powerful even when the first impulse is to have twelve tracks or more audio going at once but just because you can use technology in a certain way doesn't mean we always you don't have to and so that's a wonderful point and certainly I think very salient for horror films you know you mentioned earlier it might be nice to see see what your connection with Irish and amazed because it may not seem immediately obvious horror and already sent a man and Irish cinema isn't enough we could get inside because I think there are there are a lot of connections there I suppose a nice segue would probably be interview with a vampire Neil Jordan if we need a Segway yes yes the way to connect a couple of these things when we first met you were teaching our cinema and dot really sparks at massive interested me because I'd had an interest in Irish literature when I was at school and then was really came to carry that on I'm excited in English and film degree so I was saying I researcher Hans Irish film and that sort of thing so is wondering what you know what you're interested in our nation well I I really appreciate that questioning and you remind me so happily of my arrival in Ireland but also so I try to be unflappable that's impossible and one of the spookiest moments and not a horror films okay but I guess it's a nervous moments was when I walked in to teach that course because I felt a little out of place not only is it immigrate myself and living in another country for the first time but I felt I felt a little %HESITATION I would never want to be seen presumptuous in teaching a course on Irish cinema in Ireland I had taught Irish semi actually America previous a couple of times what I ate that was a bit nervous actually going in to teach all of you because I thought gosh I feel ill at ease real ill informed maybe you know to take all that long since as an American and in Belfast what I suppose my interest would be two fold in and one I think it started with horror and they're certainly these tremendous connections between horror and Ireland Irish literature Irish folklore from obviously the pain she threw a film I saw and I I don't think a lot of Irish film scholars I don't know that any of never really talked about it much but when I was ten twelve years old I I was in love with horror movies I was also in love with Francis Ford Coppola who directed the godfather films in Apocalypse Now and early in his career he had made a film called dementia thirteen right early nineteen sixties and it was a gothic horror story set in Ireland it was actually shot in Ireland and you know it's readily available on YouTube it's rather well known film in terms of coklat studies because it was basically a second film but I think Irish film studies it's completely unknown connections go deeper I mean stoker was Anglo Irish they're such a great tradition of Irish gothic novels and as I grew my interest in horror I grew in my interest at heart literature as well as horror films so there's all these fantastic connections and Irish horror stories on film but the other thing to happen to me when I was a teenager was by about the age of thirteen and of course you know I grew up in the state of Oklahoma I grew up in a town that I will in American terms certainly most terms would probably consider small town twenty five thousand people I grew up in I guess I'm trying to think of the the best way to say it but it probably a and as a native American everything you know kind of a masculine type culture in terms or that parameters and so John Huston's films spoke to me greatly as a teenager his films like the Maltese falcon an African queen and these films with Humphrey Bogart who was one of the great cinema tough guys and you know his later films like the man who would be king was Sean Connery and Michael Caine and you know you can kind of see probably quickly understand maybe or or see that you know kind of okay a lot of his films in his life %HESITATION I became fast about Houston's life he was quite an explorer and hunter and you know very masculine and all that very much human waves kind of hit me way of twentieth century American cinema and he was deeply interested in Irish literature and by the time I was in high school he was making his film the debt based on choice and there was a credible documentary film made about it Houston and show the behind the scenes footage showed in talking at length this is before the kind of making of featurettes we know today by by a large number some examples but they weren't it was before DVD years before that cottage industry so to speak so I S. I became entranced by the time I was sixteen and seventeen I became entranced with James Joyce and the dead when Houston said in his mind it was probably the greatest short story ever written in the English language that spoke volumes to me the film version he made which I found to be quite faithful I'm talking at length for question and now maybe exploring what might interest came from these different angles from horror as well as Joyce and then about that same time Beckett because I was also one of my other favorites as a teenager was a Buster Keaton and Samuel Beckett had made keeping film later in king's life of course and and it kind of all on guard film and I was I was also getting in transfer you know it's easy to romanticize thing when you're a teenager and I you know the passion for it all and I was and I was getting interested in basket because of his work with Keaton and I was particularly intrigued because Kevin brown will have made this incredible documentary about cheating and he had forty two Keaton's saying you know you didn't even understand the film you know which I think yes he's one of the yeah exactly the genius filmmakers in my mind he said he didn't quite understand it but he liked packet and everything so I was coming in Ireland for all these different directions to conclude I would say that in the night you know in the nineteen nineties America really what Americans always had this love affair with Ireland is regrettable exceptions during some immigration periods baby in the nineteenth century and so forth but there's a lot of love affairs in in the later twentieth century certainly from you know everybody you know celebrating St Patrick's day to the nineties when the commitments particularly the film version you too there was a particular love affair with a different times before in the sixties I think with JFK for a lot of people but in the nineties it was like it was Neil Jordan and Jim Scherr instills were exploding onto the scene my left footed one you know at the academy award and Chris I was graduating from high school and about to start university right at that moment then there's you too and I particularly fell in love like I heard it on the radio and I was driving I mean I remember the moment so clearly I was driving down I. forty in Oklahoma City are your state that runs around a lot of America and I'm burning down the highway in an old car the only one I could afford at the time I'm burning on the highway and this voice comes on the radio this band what I didn't know the name and I had to ask a friend later that day who is singing this and it was the cranberry so you're gonna set but you know I heard including that kind of Irish weighed in at the end of the song which went from the Irish but meeting pop music even more Irish sound at the end of it just seem to speak to me in ways and again as a more romantic young person a romantic maybe more the German sense of that term my great grandfather was from Ireland cord so on Cherokee and mainly that but I'm you know I have a McCord whose family was actually from the north of Ireland even America from Cork and I've met him once is a little tiny child very memories on more work well on all of that and so I had that connection to Ireland as well so forgive this long biography ladies that I fell in love with this and then I fell in love with an Irish woman who was in America and all roads lead you know what I had to leave but I had to leave and it was this tremendous love affair I cannot tell you how achingly I miss Carrickfergus my favorite places how much I've missed the Belfast city centre the people there there's so many Dunluce there were so many places I like to go and go repeatedly I just unending love affair if it helps any I'm just thinking back said you saying you felt a bit of %HESITATION this American coming in and telling the sorry students about our cinema I don't think one of us ever saw thought not not one of us ever so thought we we were all really excited to he's American he's because so many of us hadn't met an actual American person so many of us just hadn't traveled very much and a lot of us had never even met people from the other side of Belfast because we were that generation that was emerging from the call list yes you know and this is so this is two thousand five and stuff so things were really only just opening up properly at is it took a few years after the agreement relay and a lot of assets I mean may I was the first time ever had friends from west Belfast for example I never never really met anybody from not far away before and then suddenly there's this bona fide Americans whose proper proper American you know and it was so exciting for us to relate maybe sorry maybe improper puts your to your to clients but it was it was such a joy because everyone was so welcoming I mean that was one of the great things about about living hearing role was the generosity and the charity and the welcoming nature of of the entirety of the island you know it was just like a beautiful thing so so it's so nice to hear that and it didn't seem like such a fascinating moment at that point one of my biggest memories of Belfast at that moment was the sheer number of cranes %HESITATION yes construction rains around the city it seems like a truly under construction obviously and reconstruction with the cranes but it felt to an outsider and admittedly neophytes our eyes to Belfast it seems almost as metaphorical as it did physical construction cranes and this coming together of peoples and and I suppose some of my great memories stand would have been with the film students and how film students working together on projects from those two different communities and film production or film studies in you know bringing them together it was really a remarkable moment in Belfast you know it really was it's so nice to remember all that actually it's so good to hear your side of it I mean we all just felt like kids you know so we didn't know what where you come from or anything and but that was back at that time when I think students and certainly undergraduate ins had reverence for he ever researching them it didn't matter who they were what age they were or whatever the person at the front of the class was the authority and that was it I mean if we didn't even think to question anything like that where is I think it's become very different certainly my experience was very different when I was teaching it's so good to hear it from your experiences while because I think we even though we were from there we were it was all new to us as well so that's pretty interesting to think about it that way yeah well it's it was it was a wonderful period and one of the my favorite periods you know as we look back and there's sometimes a few years that we're so happy here and sometimes maybe a year to that's not and so forth I was one of the happiest periods in my life and a lot of it was queens and was filmed queens and was all of you there and and of course you know the tremendous colleagues who were there at that time like because overall and and Raymond in the network you know some people who are no longer even at queens that moved on or retired but it was quite a %HESITATION wonderful meeting of everyone I think Cynthia I have very special memories Terry said Kerry is there anything we haven't covered that you would like to touch on just so thankful for having me %HESITATION that allowing me the chance to chat and chat probably chat too much but I I love talking about obviously all these issues and %HESITATION so it's it's great to have the opportunity to do so I have so enjoyed it it's been great because I mean we've known each other for a long time but I think this is the first time I've heard a lot of all of thought so that's been really a treat for me and it's been so good to catch up it's been a while and yeah it's good to reminisces while back home with somebody who loves to fight yes indeed it well even hear your accent now and back to hearing American accents every day and some of them are quite nice but I miss the accents of people essentially ready but but it was such a beautiful thing really the Irish accents from throughout the island needles are are are so beautiful and almost melodic to here and I miss that so much I sometimes I had to you know with some of the Belfast people talking so quickly I had to listen very carefully well I got I got better at it over time so it's great to hear even the accent I missed so much well it's great to hear you eating yeah come thank you enough for your time saying this it's been really really fun and I hope pretty informative for lots of people as well it certainly has been for me to sign K. ands take care and all the best with everything you're working on thanks so very much all the best to you and all of the listeners including as we trudge out hopefully soon the last of the hand
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Audiovisual Cultures episode 50 – Musicals and Women in Hollywood and Horror with Dr Martha Shearer automated transcript


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they says audio-visual cultures the podcast that delves into topics and issues around cultural production I’m the host and creator Paula Blair in this edition I’m excited to be joined by film scholar dr. Martha Shearer talking about her research on musicals women and new Hollywood and much more thanks to our members on patreon.com forward slash a V cultures for your continued and valued support if you’d like to help the podcast financially or by spreading the word listen to the end to find out hi when I do enjoy my chat with Martha amid the hustle and bustle of BFI Southbank in London I’m currently teaching studies at King’s College London where I worked for quite a while and I also did my PhD I’m teaching film history contemporary history but also a lot of kind of Hollywood cinema and also I’m currently editing two books gosh that’s a big undertaking I know originally I was sort of gonna be not at the same time and they sort of aren’t but there is a definitely a point where in my life in the future where they will be overlapping one of them is gonna be on women and new Hollywood and then the other one is called musicals at the margins which is looking at films and media texts of various kinds they exist on the margins and boundaries of the musical is a genre a historically now and especially now I think but also in a range of different kind of geographical on the geographical context you’ve worked a lot on New York yeah are you happy to tell us a bit about your research on the bag yes my first book the musical in New York City and so what it was looking at was being sort of everywhere isn’t here now and quite far the most common setting was interesting but also one of the primary things I was trying to do in that boat was think about the ways in which New York was undergoing quite substantial amounts of change during the period of which the music was at its peak so from like they’re coming of sound the late 1920s opportunity early 1960s really which it starts to tail off in the kind of mid fifties but this is when you’re getting the kind of growth of suburbia this is when you’re getting various kinds of modernist architecture you know the baby boom but they’re also various process of urban redevelopment another completely transforming the city and so I was interested in how that was sort of reshaping the musical and how those processes was registering the musical and so it was a sort of project that was very confined into one city but also because most of those musicals were still made in Los Angeles so they’re also almost always from the outside to some extent it’s trying to map on the relationship between the kind of industry and the process of production the actual kind of aesthetics of the films themselves and then their relationship to the history and geography of think about how all those things are woven together in trance moving each other throughout the very first musicals and go up until the 1970s I really consider anything contemporary my back it’s really fascinate an idea that idea that New York is rebuilt on a studio lot yeah an MGM in particular because they had a massive lot with not so standing set so they had I think three different New York streets ads which you can pick up recurring this is the brownstone Street or whatever else might be kind of readjustment so they have their own sort of approximation of the city and so it is to an extent it’s a different version of it I was trying to kind of grapple with what is the relationship to the real city when you are constructing your own kind of weird distorted version on another coast in order for it to make sense as New York as a setting it’s not intentional and so you can see the various ways these films

because it’s a musical you continually have this influx of people working on the Broadway so there is this kind of direct live experience but yeah the SATs are really interesting especially the historical there’s a whole cluster musicals especially 1940s that are set around turn to centuries and I have a whole chapter on and a lot of them are doing quite interesting things where they’re trying to present this vision of a city and the skyline natural buildings but doesn’t really exist anymore but it’s all been rebuilt other ways of which they’re visually attractive can maybe talk about some examples of specific films in a minute I’m just wondering about New York as a transient space because there’s so much emigration to America coming in especially if a lot of the funds for earlier in the 20th century yeah and then people moving it was the way the movies it’s not just singing it’s dance we’re talking about yeah I mean I think musicals are really product about people coming to the city but not necessarily as migrants so there is a kind of standard musical merit it’s like a girl someone she wants to be a star Broadway and she ends up living in a boarding house having lots of fun with her boardinghouse friends but actually there’s relatively little on contemporary in migration whether that’s from the south which like there was kind of a second break migration that happened around World War two all actual immigration which is strange I mean there are a couple of historical musicals that have Irish yeah but that is the kind of especially like nineteen forties musicals they will have weird Gene Kelly doing a jig bit like that’s okay there’s a film called up in Central Park which has been exempt rice playing boss tweed controlling Tammany Hall it’s about his downfall in this very very fictionalized version but it’s all about this father and daughter Irish immigrants like literally fresh off the boats get picked up by this guy working the time it’s like oh you have to go in to vote twenty three times okay because we can’t read so we don’t understand the Constitution then they learn how to read no like oh no what’s interesting I think is there the musicals are much less interested in that sense of transience than in the sense of quick cities they’re really preoccupied with these very dense neighborhoods where you know everyone knows each other and actually they might be quiet Italians they’re people from Eastern Europe but all living together in there all have their own customs whatever but it’s really interested in this fixed that it’s idea of a neighborhood and so a lot of the films in the 1940s because there are all these plans to redevelop them to build new public housing or to move people out the city because they want to build like an art center or whatever there’s a real sense of anxiety to those kinds of films and so what about those musicals end up being about is this sense of community that’s really rooted in place so it’s actually much less about embracing that sense of transience and change people moving in and out are they’re really worried about the ways that these neighborhoods in the city as a whole might change it’s quite defensive and actually I think the kind of historical musicals are doing something similar because they’re setting up this idea of continuity with the past and quite often even though they’re displaying the ways in which the skyline wanted changed they’re quite often built around places that still exist so you have sat around Central Park there’s a whole scandal in that film about lost weeds wearing the animals in the Central Park Zoo for him to eat o or Washington Square Park but stuff that still exists so it’s about a sense of continuity that’s threatened and they’re quite disdainful of any kind of modernism as well especially what you get in the 1950s and you get proper kind of international style story because these don’t go down very well they’re not interest like a lot of these films I ended up because I was doing this database when I had this mad spreadsheet where I was going through AFI catalog listing any film listed as a musical or film with songs which is like a different category it starts to get a bit unstable but also going through all these kind of coffee-table book on produced in the seventies and just going through every single film they listed so that I had this master list of anything that might be considered a musical that was being produced from like the 30s please it’s vast but the numbers are absolutely fast and so I was going through and trying to be like okay what proportion of these films are setting what trends can I pick out it took months obviously months just doing that but it threw up some interesting things that I think get missed because the musical is on that people are very familiar with the same sort of like 15 to 20 films about constantly get screened constantly but there are you know 800 other films and some of them are doing similar things to those films in some ways those forms are kind of exceptional and that’s why they’re interesting but actually there are these broad themes that get really lost if you’re just going to the films that you know that is one of the things I really wanted to do if you John rest studies really is to try and bringing some of the things that actually were tapping into quite significant trends in the genre but I’ve got lost because the process of colonization so sometimes I’ll be talking about thumbs and people like I know that film like you absolutely don’t my god I found it in this list and then like the only way I could see it was because it’s child star was selling a copy on her like weird personal website yeah that was an amazing find it did come like the DVD came and it was just some like dvd-r and it didn’t even have the title of the film on it just like her name had a big picture of her I

was very grateful to that because you know that was really wasn’t available anywhere else they never will be probably I mean this was called there’s a girl in my heart and that was another turn-of-the-century musical about a kind of neighborhoods where they all clubbed together and put on a show or whatever and there’s various kinds of rollerskating people and it’s about a block that was threatened with redevelopment so it’s quite interesting for my parents is because it’s really keying and it’s not a very good film it’s very cheaply made it’s like a poverty road musical when there are various poverty Road Studios that wanted to go a bit more middlebrow and so started making musicals to do that which are a bit more expensive they would normally be doing I mean it’s really chunky they’re a bit so I’m watching and I’m like I feel like that bit status so it’s not like I’m providing this Melek everyone please check out this amazing piece of cinema Arts that you have missed but it is for thinking about the relationship between the musical and new your grand between Hollywood cinema in New York it is quite an interesting example to get directly talking about the redevelopment like build a sports arena I think in that case it’s quite interesting that those films that are completely very very cheap they were but no one was really paying particular attention to you know but are actually kind of engaging with these films really directly just because it might be objectively not well made that does not mean that can take just a name which I’m showing yeah yeah and I think actually some of those films you don’t have to be I’m not really ever particularly interested in web of the films and goods yeah it doesn’t matter yeah well as I think other sorts of projects that’s maybe part of your argument in that I don’t know well but you’re saying that this film has been engaging with or making of interesting into venture and I’m doing this I was totally uninterested in that sort of yeah yeah it’s different kind of value yeah I suppose it’s up maybe it’s a question yeah this is for the kind of stuff I’m working on at the moment so I’m I’m editing this book music was at the margins with gene LeBell so right and this is sort of a starting point really in there I think there is a sense that it’s really obvious what a musical is but I can have this with students every year when I try to teach us whatever they like well a musical it has to be one like people of breaking into song and any film where there are only stage performances that can’t be a musical any film where people are just dancing and not saying that’s my musical and like let me give you like a list of films and a list of contacts and which people have definite considered that musicals and it actually is much more unstable than initially especially if you move beyond the Canon and especially actually if you’re talking about a more contemporary context because there does come a point around the late seventies early eighties where this genre does start to shift and develop into dance motorcycles what we’ve wanted to complete aside stand for those boundary policing issues because what it’s doing is it’s a way of managing that instability rather than actually acknowledging it and addressing it and so what we’re trying to do with this musicals at the margins project is directly look at the unstable edges and look at those films there might be boundary cases or that have been marginalized so there are examples of films where no one will read the screen departmen musicals but they haven’t been discussed as such for various kinds of reasons or perhaps because they’re dealing with marginalized groups or they’re in a marginal cinema or they’re doing something slightly different or they’re not film or like a short film to put those kind of questions back to the center I think with the book my approach was really I’m not going to impose a definition yeah I’m gonna be really led by and actually some of the films that I wrote about their generic status was contested at the time the example always have is this film young man with horns which is about Kirk Douglas it’s great but that is a film is really interesting because when I looked at the memos in the archive you get all these people writing about it being like just to because they’re everyone this is not a musical this is a serious drama about gas it’s not a musical just music but they also cast Doris Day as a singer in it and it’s very early in her film career but she was a singer ideally but when it gets released there are various reviews that come out they’re just like oh yes there’s new musical the road just in this offhand way and so the studio can’t really other like people working on the film I can’t actually control how other people understand it that film now doesn’t really get discussed very often it has a musical it gets discussed quite a lot and it’s been written about extensively as a jazz but there’s some sort of resistance towards understanding it as a jazz musical these things are never really settled and I think even with the studio era where it seems like it ought to be much more quick cuts what a musical is there are various kinds of films where some people will categorize them as a musical others would be like now this is a drama that just has a few bits of singing in it just how the occasional musical number it’s not I mean it’s never really clear actually a matter in itself it does make it a bit more difficult and it puts the ways in which the genre has been theorized under some pressure because you know there are various examples of Briggs written in the 80s where they have a list of criteria that a musical has to meet you get some quite strange exclusion so there’s a passage in like record spoke of the musical where one of his key arguments is that musical is always built around the formation of a heterosexual couple is necessarily structured by it and so he gets to a point where he’s like oh you know there are various films that don’t meet that like The Wizard of Oz which you would obviously consider to be a musical and so he does this with sort of like dance around musical but it’s also something different it’s like a children’s film so he sort of includes it in his list of musicals but then he’s like this doesn’t fit my definition so I’m gonna say it’s something else and like children’s musicals are like a different thing this is really weird yeah it’s strange because actually a lot of the ways in which he’s writing on their theory enough but are really interesting already useful and are quite flexible and quite open and then takes the strange turn which is always quite fun to teach but it does throw out the ways in which any sort of definition yet for me if you have run into trouble because there will always means boundary cases throat problems and do like a troubling border yeah I mean I think in my first book I did what a lot of people do which is just like I’m not really gonna deal with this time just gonna have quite an eye opener pragmatic which I think was the right thing with that book because it wasn’t really about definition but it was something that stayed with me and so I think that’s one of the reasons why I’ve ended up doing this project where it’s really I mean sure the film is always musical in the sense that the roots and hide scores behind it yeah a lot of time a lot of yeah well this is the thing when it starts becoming all encompassing and various of our contributors are just getting the chapters in now yeah because you can look at what is the genre how people understood it and how is that different at different times how is it being contested how might that have changed so that more sort of cultural approach and then other people are thinking things I feel like that these films don’t get to it’s about as musicals have got to wait in relation to musicals but actually aesthetically they’re doing similar things to fairly canonical examples then you could also take that much broader approach something like this is on a continuum with the ways in which music is incorporated in film and the ways in which that might be spectacular is I think one of the interesting things is that you can look at the musical it gets used as a kind of analogy and other kinds of genres that you say Linda Williams for example at length compares hardcore pornography to the musical as saying Lisa kind of numbers and climate or people who are compared action or in the 80s when you start getting all these kind of synergistic films re built around the soundtracks GLaDOS doing something similar to a musical except it’s all from diegetic music well not the time so once you start thinking in that way it starts becoming something really broad and really jhana studies so often siloed so then you have people working on this little in ways that don’t really speak as much as they might so you get people writing but comedy oh yeah those are also musicals but you’re not crossing each other you’re just speaking these strange little lanes and so yeah it starts really be a lot more open so loading your publications just to give me a few problems I thought this year yes UK romance of staying this transatlantic quite interesting that came out of their conference a few years back it’s looking like it’s going to be quite an interesting project because some of the politics I’ve been doing a few projects recently are gentrification this is gonna be part of a bigger project get also at some point on real estate anyway so this project is less about that and more directly about gentrification television so I’m looking at two TV shows looking in your the worst that both include US UK romances in gentrifying cities and stratifying areas of this how those cloths issues get played on as well no use for such characters as bearers of class identity write in quite interesting ways I’m looking I think is a really interesting example because Andrew Hague and Russell Tovey oh yeah but what is really interesting about it is so there is a way in which that show because it has a British people involved creatively it gets it I think there’s this really interesting running the thing where jonathan groff scared cuz i can’t read his Britishness he’s talking about where he grew up in Essex and I’m like well this is exactly it same kind of familiar with IRA see with what he’s talking about you with love when I’m showing that I don’t know whereas it’s sort of interesting like what who that joke is cause I think there’s something interesting with the way in which those programs will connect this idea of Britishness with a class system and Cosette and then this gentrification that cities undergoing is this class transformation of their cities and how those sorts of things are used to speak to each other and I think looking does that on actually a fairly interesting way the other TV show in fact which I have not seen the last two seasons of because it’s quite difficult to watch in this country there were various little bits of it they got shown on channel 5 at one point I think is actually a bit more troubling and it has this idea of some sort of international creative class which allows you to escape your past background actually fairly pernicious I think where it has this very unconvincing British character who is supposed to have grown up in the rough part of Manchester as the active comes from Cambridge and he’s really posh accent what’s happening here yeah so there’s this whole thing where his working-class abusive father who he hates and the show respects you die yeah sends him a football shirt the team that the dad supports and the son has never been interested in which is Manchester football team all right you know Manchester’s going what’s going on so it’s sort of tone-deaf in that way but also it has this weird international hipster class transcendence idea was a lot of ways kind of quite displace to be handled I suppose for anybody who might who’s for major to be a reference point is it better or worse GNA soozluecke Indian accent well he doesn’t even try doing like a posh southern it’s religious and then his whole supposedly monk Union family visit and they all have different regional accents it’s very confused the episode was a stressful watch I think there are things about this show that I really like but this is like upsetting but yeah I’ve been trying to branch out from New York those shows one of them is set in LA and one of them something just go so I’ve gone from like doing this long emotion in New York’s history now I’m talking about writing about various other different cities which requires me to try and figure out because you’re not just researching the cultural products it’s the geography do politics culture of these pieces they’re making my cousins yeah yeah it does make my part and I think this is the stress and anxiety of interdisciplinarity where you’re trying to keep on top of multiple objects yeah she’s you know the city and the actual taxes but also at the same time trying to vaguely keep on top of different disciplines and it’s a lot of work I think it’s really hard to do it well I don’t necessarily feel like I do well all the time I think it’s something they can only do what they can do and I think I think it’s useful to sort of be aware of that also because I feel like I go to a lot of film and X yeah well yours get calm studies people being like I’m so sorry I am a media scholar I don’t know anything I just apologize before I get my paper and then the number of times I’ve been at those conferences where people from other disciplines just anyone who feels completely comfortable talking about film that’s the thing it’s like we know we’re tiny better good yeah I mean know a bit about other bits of it but its massive it’s one massive thing cuz it’s everything it’s there used to be a point where I would be like really annoyed by that you’re like why haven’t you read this book like it is really difficult to get a handle on yeah what other disciplines are doing I mean that’s not to say we shouldn’t do it though I think it’s really productive and I think it’s far as a really interesting work that it is hard to do sort to try and get those multiple disciplines to speak to each other and to get to corral those different things into one project so yeah it’s the thing I’m constantly like am i doing this properly have I missed some big debates but I’m not aware of and I’m stepping on someone to tell you somewhere it’s just part of the impostor syndrome yes like the people who really need to have impostor syndrome we’re the ones who don’t but know if you’re questioning yourself those are good questions because they’ll keep the day on the straight and narrow because I mean our inquiry into it sounds like curry on charted territories in terms of trying to eat so I when are the boundaries a person doesn’t have to be yeah people don’t really like a lot of people like closed boxes holes for things and vehicles for penguins we’re in a world that the minute were in many ways for challenge anatra challenge and that the gender with sexuality with geopolitics you know all the time so it feels like it’s a moment where there’s anxiety and someone come some things need to be border at all yes I need to know what my identity is yes and I want have a very fixed and to defend that and that’s why you know there’s a resistance to three so no I completely appreciate that than this mayo new studies have been about the fault lines between what kind of mediate is completely sympathize for any questions they’re getting at you it must be useful because yeah and you can really make sure you’re not doing things I mean it’s always useful to pay attention for sure giving you important information yeah and in the way proper even when you don’t want her binder is you need to sort of in a way at your own boundaries because you drive yourself mad it’s the RAC I know this is when everything starts becoming will be there’s been like Don DeLillo’s Libre it’s a historian character who is just never finishing project surrounded by people

it’s not just hot summer stopping pool yeah no it is a lot of the times the stoppage point is just the tyranny of the word count you need something – really isn’t it exciting that there’s potential that other people take on the baton other people in a few years time might go actually Martha identified this topic in terms of

I sort of wrote the book and then I was like especially also casting out the fires having this massive musical seasons music I mean I’m working the chapter further musicals edited book I’m writing about the Magic Mike films so that’s coming at it from a slightly different angle yeah it’s mainly contemporary secondary and then I have another project I’m working on for another collection on the musical that’s going to be on Saturday yeah I’m right 10,000 words about sanity I think the thing is that once you do something then people start asking you to do stuff along those lines yeah which is nice and some other time you’re like yes actually there is the kind of thing I would have still want to do and then at some point you have to be like I have to stop and I have to move on to the next project or I’m gonna go mad so yeah I think I’m gonna try and find Stan it’s not working we also don’t to be typecast as the musical person there are people who’ve gone through that anymore like the whole identity as a scholar is like the musical and that’s great but I think there are some people who want to basically be working on the same thing so it’s not their entire career than I really expected proportionately and I think I got to a point where I was like I’m done with this I think I still have these questions lingering that I want to push in this direction or I think definitely the work I’ve done recently that’s not directly on the musical it has been a product if the concerns to open working on about the relationship between cities but pushing it in a slightly different direction because I really wanted to have that sense of some kind of great I think especially when you’ve written a book placing your PhD but yeah you do need that distance because I suppose that’s like having a really cool family you know I love you but I need a break from you for my son okay I can do this amount of time and then just one more question because so he works on something to do with Suspiria yes yeah which actually is a kind of a total break so this is actually because I’m doing this women in New Hollywood book I mean I’ve worked on New Hollywood in the kind of musicals portraits oh I see yeah I’m co-editing it with bits I asked whether I’d be interested in submitting a proposal for this a data collection I’ve been teaching Suspiria because I love this area I think it’s a great teachable film doing interesting things formally but also has this fairytale quality my project on that is about Daria Nickelodeon as its screenwriter firstly looking at the ways in which she sort of been marginalized in a lot of the writing about it wasn’t that’s scholarship because it’s seen overwhelmingly as no gender yeah yeah but also just looking at and thinking about what happens when we understand this film as having a female and I think doing that throws up some quite interesting things about it in the ways that it’s actually quite interested in questions of authorship it’s setting up all these deaths which are irrational and unexplainable that is a question of authorship like created it and how do I mean there’s almost no there’s – I think very peripheral mail carrier and that vomits and it’s also like got a very feminine aesthetic yeah it’s very engulf times much pretty and it’s about which is a faller I think there was a way of reading it as engaging with certain kinds of questions of female authorship that aspect of the text gets really you can’t see that they’re purely seeing it as a Dario Argento yeah there was a really nice view that project – it also allowed me to go back to some of the stuff I was really interested in undergrad feminist film theory and kind of really it was a really nice rape it was also one of these things no good I’m working on this like cult film that all these horror nerds oh I gotta find these holes and it’s really nice because it’s a film that has I did realize it was basically of all the horror films I could have chosen the one that’s most like a musical without being one great way of looking at this is what I realized eventually I was like notice I’m pretty different from research that I’ve been doing one of the coolest cinematic experiences I’ve ever had was at the Belfast Film Festival one year goblin came over and then alive I was very awesome I know this being a friend who’s Italian and works in Italian cinema I think it was us and a bunch of dudes you mostly thank you very days oh my god you’re in metal t-shirt stuff therefore Goblin I’m like oh wow yeah there is some quite interesting work on Suspiria as a film that has like a disproportionately high oh yeah you know fandom as compared to like other magenta films or other Italian horror films or whatever it’s quite interesting following film it was really amazing this is here with score I can’t really watch it again do you want to talk a bit about their women in new Hollywood yeah again it’s charted territories because we anybody knows anything about new Hollywood it’s a very meal yes exactly the scholarship is still really attached to that Oh tourist mail it’s great romantic artists it’s also like look at me bucking the system which yeah is really tedious but also there are various women who direct on this period there’s actually a really interesting book that’s come out recently called liberating Hollywood’s by myosin clear which is about each of the women who directed films in the Hollywood period including people that are relatively well known I can make me so other people who are but I think one of the things we really wanted to do with this project is not just look at directors because I think one of the real problems is that that period has been understood in such a no terrorist way that has obscured paying attention to the women that we’re working on the kinds of rolls so whether that’s screenwriters its production designers editors especially or as operators so we have a really interesting mix people working on directors like Barbara Rosen and me brackets or Marshall Lucas we’ve also tried to organize it in a way that we have sections that are there’s a section that’s primarily dealing with looking at the industry and historiography and looking at that side of things it’s more focused on how that creatively but shaped texts women’s contributions to those and also a section looking at theory that doesn’t tend to be that contact a lot of the time between them thinking about their him thinking about the industry but hopefully there’ll be some interesting work that was thinking about the generational theory in the period in relation to those Wars but also thinking is storia graphically about the emergence of feminist theory or about the kinds of filters that are going on at the time but also about how we might think very simply about women’s authorship in that period in the various different capacities and they it’s really exciting but it’s also at that early stage like we’ve got proposal and we’re now just getting contributors and I think it’s gonna be really exciting Jesus I like that it’s a collections man I just I mean it’s really kind of what I’m gonna contribute to different times around like oh it’s time so I’m really sorry to be late with my chapter and then you’re like that’s fine but it’s also like you’re trying to manage lots of other different people’s various commitments and then trying to get everything on schedule castle but it’s how you get see my foot and then should bring together a lot of new voices on the topic I think we’ve got quite an interesting range and I do think it really is there have been a lot of kind of books of Commerce on new Hollywood recently and I knew this is making a sort of necessary intervention in the field which it’s really in need of some a scholarship forward their hard work but it’s something I do really enjoy reading other people’s work and getting people to ask those questions and I’m really delighted to be part of this I think it’s doing something necessary I think it’s really important that edited collections cuz there are so many of them it’s just continually creating any collections that there actually have some fun actual projects and aren’t just collections of stuff really vital projects of employees yeah there’s an important agenda find it there’s a network nioh this kind of thing and when you’re calling the shots project yeah I mean it’s a really hot area you know in a lot of ways we’ve been slow get to this point there are so many really interesting projects like all the your projects it’s all the glads you’ve had these lovely feel for a while but actually that’s not valued whether it’s because it just wasn’t very good or it didn’t get a lot of funding or people just deliberately kept saying so the fish straight um people out of work or just didn’t acknowledge yeah you know almost like archaeology and then there’s this digging ice of what actually yeah I think but it’s interesting because you get there’s long been this cliche being like oh you know new only ready so critical construction but it becomes so clear how it’s a critical construction that’s constructed around white masculinity yeah unlike whether it’s acknowledged a lot that is one of the attractions and I think the films are more interesting than that the borders of that category are constructed in such a way as to exclude I mean and then also you do need to talk about it slightly differently when you’re talking about women because a lot of those women that didn’t want to work in Hollywood because of what it was you know entirely reasonably or they wanted to in their pathways were just blocked it’s never got to make those jobs in a way that

it’s both the kind of excavation and the reframing why am i working on so many different things the same time I know it’s so exhausting this summer is because I really sat down at one point a few weeks ago and I was like I am trying to think about five different things at the same time and sometimes I’ll be reading a book and I’d be like oh this is really useful for this but wait I was reading this with this project until now and like I just have to kind of this is what I’ve done to myself I mean it’s all self-inflicted

do you want to direct anybody to your websites to find out more about any of these projects yeah so my book is out and is incredibly expensive you know I’m sure parts of it on Google Books is very especially interesting I think my most recent publication was in the Oxford Handbook of musical theater screen adaptations which is an enormous Oxford Handbook so always absolutely things I got to write about some stuff that was in my PhD that didn’t make it into the book sort of a last dregs that kind of firm so that was like you calling it probably I mean I wrote it out on the town a bit in the book but I had to cut it down because I’d written so much about it and my PhD that exploded you railed one of my businesses so much to say about it so I cut a lot of it out and then put it in this chapter and I was like yeah finally I have a place for this and then another film but I obviously love called bells are ringing which doesn’t get talked about so much but it’s wonderful with judy holliday isn’t so well known because she died very young and died in the 60s before she got to talk herself up in the 70s from all the other funny what starts with doing that talk to a [ __ ] she’s best well-known but she’s amazing and it’s absolutely not be film about she works answer phone operator it’s a hard plot to explain but basically the chapter is about how those two films which are both adaptations of war brain musicals but also the ways in which they’re adapting new york and the ways in which new york is itself changing and that requires an adaptation of representational strategies it was really nice to be able to write about those two films I’d had some for structural reasons not talked about so much in the book and just expands that and kind of really delve into it I don’t really have a personal website jalisa academia.edu yeah I have a page on there Kings website yeah yeah the somatic setting because you do and I do everything it’s in the time oh yeah this is where I you’ve been listening to audio visual cultures with me Paula Blair and my very special guest Martha Shearer this episode was recorded and edited by Paula Blair and the music is common grind by air tone licensed under creative commons attribution 3.0 and available for download from ccmixter org if you liked the show and find its contents useful and interesting please help cover production and distribution costs by donating to paypal taught me for research pei Blair or libera PACOM forward slash Pei Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday please read share and subscribe on your chosen listening platform as this helps others find the show for more information visit audio-visual culture at wordpress.com and follow AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook thanks so much for listening and catch you next time you

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Audiovisual Cultures episode 25 – Get Out automated transcript


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this is already official cultures the podcast exploring signed an image based cultural production I'm your host policy ladder this weekend's ratio than I take on the gas all rights if this is the first time you joining us a very warm welcome you can find all our previous episodes on the podcast's page of the website at audio visual cultures dot wordpress dot com if you listen regularly and conspirators ons pledge support via Patreon dot com to sustain and improve this work on to help us reach wider audiences we're very grateful for all financial support as well as lessons shares and likes on social media I'll be back at the end with further ways of keeping in touch tonight enjoy the discussion Christine that kind of complex and we have attempted to a pickup Christy talents just to walk to her knowing that we're both went on Jan nine and like just watched Jordan peel's directorial debut get I used to be the main in the water for a while we didn't see this and then they haven't lost it tonight because we are both wins but it wasn't scary necessarily I think we might have made a choice specifically geared to eventually be scared we would spot cost pastas and we seriously tense moments there's a very moments third screw you could the governor's challenge by bending what counts as a horror film I'm just looking at what various websites close it as soon as it is it's Hara it's got harder and factions and there's a lot of sheets of the shining and towards the end I think in this is going to go to awards night of the Living Dead or is it just a hint that I'm picking up %HESITATION and actually does the opposite of night if nothing does maybe it's a reply to that and %HESITATION but there's definitely quite a lot of shades EQ broken there yes it Scerri and a very different kind of way I think scary and probably just high rails embedded racism as even and black paper which seems to be largely what it's actually about eight so the white supremacist racism for that believing in the stereo types %HESITATION protesting too much I'm not a racist Bob Sabiston those services she adds yeah but also hi angry ends at the comes the history of the file when you've been there press the legacy three head straight when you've been oppressed people hi that is a radius and higher inseminated and cherry I mean in this case so you're separated into white culture white ways of life why northern ways of life in the United States you've been appropriated for other purposes so it's slavery by another form yeah I'm just in order of how well that was done on the other that's how it's taking up my price this is gonna be and is that right US and Canada box office two hundred fifty five point five million dollars budget for half a million dollars %HESITATION he said this donation incredible amount you can see the budget is on screen it's a low budget but the budget has been paid and to give me some sense three inventive cinematography we were thinking the whole way three you're learning things by what you're not shown there's a lot of getting arrives things there's a lot of and Cameron I faxed to allow you to believe that you've seen something that you really happened so there's a lot of proper cinematic tracker rate and the best possible way and really really resourceful use of the tales of their disposal Arabic accent certainly from the research I've ever done on Sally potter who works with very small budget since while maybe one to eighty million pines which is a similar kind of well he said he kind of reminds us dollars and the economic use of the budget it's just fifty nine ninety of Orlando where you've got these huge that evaporate cost you nine Bucks a lot of time and energy went into rehearsals for weeks before and then they we cast things and one or two takes and move on to the next occasion because it was all P. C. every penny on the screen and you watch this and it's really high production value E. and I would not have guessed it costs so little to make this film it's old school it's a pretty positive I would say that's clockwork for small beautifully done and I really was not seeing things coming this is going to be hard to what people praising the phone made by some black people isn't something I'm cavalier like sort of like character but this is probably the point it's made as much for office that is for anybody else because dot and fired it's kind of racism is so much a part of the problem is that where you're protesting to match that you're not racist because of all the black people that you can name and a lot of the character states that they see him unless I missed in the bay it's O. G. like golf icon Tiger Woods really probably not the case or it's just been named the one black person that I can think of that's it brought a route and this guy has no interest in these things I know one person Hey again didn't see this coming in that so class where the one person who takes and then tracks and crafts for crafts and him as a photographer and this guy J. M. Hutson the gallery owner he's blind and very well last season yeah reply some of the characters yeah thirty five no no to tell massive spoilers and this one the idea if it can't nothing it should ship like block parties as a commodity three fifths of things for a very clear day and the natural use of the black bowtie it is you're thinkin it's some kind of indoctrination are brainwashing or something it's even worse than not it's actually heading in a white person and then save and taking over a block ball playing for the survey over the phone the process one hour forty five minutes a survey of about a one hour twenty four yeah mark there's a big group it's a very big fan actually it may be I'm trying to sort of thing but certainly any the reviews I ever heard or read said Victor something in it and that you're not going to see it coming and I really didn't return a spoiler yeah but the point is is that the guy who wants his fall date once and for his ice so that he's actually been targeted specifically by somebody of this community this pharmacy costs really send Esther span on the idea %HESITATION lake %HESITATION and of course yeah you to pick up on it so so relatable on Georgina saying I feel like part of family it turns away it is a rose's grandmother really send us there that is packed with allusions to American horror films back into the communities that have cheated death and someone was thinking when rose's father means neither side business do you talk about how that goes Marcus is available to quickly means is they have the power to take I don't know if I wasn't pregnant melania person's body and in so doing give that person a rectal exam tomorrow but also there's this idea of appropriation and that's a very white colonialists neo colonialist thing today there is a point made by the power of ornaments I insist on taking crafts on the terror of the hi ace and makes a point of showing in the parable ornaments wherever they found at least somewhere in Asia I think happened on the night but yes so there's just this idea of food packaging and this is from this place and I love traveling I travel all over the world it's so great to fix various other people's cultures and that kind of thing and how many times have we heard that your very wealthy white privileged person say those sorts of things to be able to go anywhere in the world because she have that kind of mobility and you have the money share to cherry pick bits about culture and bring it back with you okay so that you always have that there's a deliberate that's set up for you that pillaging of other cultures but it's less surely taking people being abducted by this small community they're the descendants of people who were abducted from a continent and their bodies C. ace three that's on page mehr buyer and then it's just happening all over again in a different form in a more technology ice advanced medical form is important for that but the mobile phone reveals that Chris our main character four seven year tenure how do I think it is September ninth net correct they were main character Chris finds out but when the when the audience numbers finds out that he's has been auctioned his body it's an option to one of the members of this compound is connection to family because of his group is called hold the curriculum that mine is really coming down because it's going to come up with a conversation with Chris and residing elsewhere on the plantation house were on the property the ocean is being carried out silently search just roses that facing the camera doing stuff that happens to happen Bango cards as well as other peoples %HESITATION into holding up an account but the first few shots of him holding up his hands and pointing the finger some people have been accounts I'm not sure throw quite close into the people several other something intercut with shots of resin Chris talking elsewhere the biggest thing is happening so the only music from thank you bye I'm only off the first few into cuts back and forth between these two things that the camera get sufficiently disturbed yeah I was living in a shelter was moving away from the car to get special assistant to show the next Rosenstein there was an a frame from grace sure but reserves Washington correct I wrote down that was almost exactly the one hour mark of forty four image minutes inside it was pasta half way no suspects have been built by that point the firm went okay we now can tell you one big thing about what's going on and then of course and have another big thing six one three nine times of having stages where it went okay if they let it worry about should be about the mores and then you should be quite worried and %HESITATION basically should worry about or if that was needed for the second level when you look back on the film and that Hans warned she had everything is actually it has prompted all the states because this guy Jim Hudson he's sitting in the state waiting everybody else is that the party had a great time he setting there already waiting he's waiting for the auction P. thank %HESITATION he's just staying out of the party patients telling I but no he sent his research he knows exactly you Chris says maybe he's actually got them to see him all right we don't know that because it seems like some roses the daughter of this family has grown up and nice environment and she's charged with beating both children are actually she and Jeremy but they both have very different approaches his very violent it's a very violent form of kidnapping where is she as more of a situation %HESITATION she begins a romantic relationship with the person draws them in that way I think there is a phone hello this is telling us stuff that we need to know that some of them doing so with a lot of stuff and not telling as I said we need to know right from the start of the quote maybe because in the pre credit sequence we have Jeremy wearing his nights how many have ducks saying go ahead and send out three Andre Hayworth yes I did have the procedure done forty one thousand minutes of a man called login and it was simply wears his face this kind of night helmet he's got a white car and he's playing run rabbit run on is the system on the car he just swipes this going dry hay with six minutes back and drives off and that's the end of the previous sequence that gets us ready to expect our productions by a guy in a car yeah and so the whole thing with Chris going to supervise these parents what we've been told to do is to not have any suspicions about nine one zero yeah it is from the rear lights on when Chris is managed to find his way out of the Armitage house just introspect and Caroline texture is big my grandfather generally seems to kill the Texas keystrokes actors James Caan and sees what is in the engine %HESITATION run rabbit run V. six thousand right and he sees this is no I tell them ninety six officers it was a callback to something bad had happened about an hour and a half yeah they have a phone that goes as we told you about it well enough and clearly enough your memory the character of J. he's nervous walking around that neighborhood it's a very well today neighborhood and there's no people around it's totally it's barren almost to people and it's just this one car going past that's the only sign of any kind human activity but it's a very Stepford wives looking area everything's very pristine and tidy and Baker uses and leafy avenues and he's on the phone with a friend voicing concern not feeling safe and it's kind of neighborhood he's somebody he's from Greco Latin and he's not feeling safe than the car SO Stein at post up ahead of time he walks the other way the car stops he becomes aware that it is stops when he'd expect you know there's a lot of stuff going on behind people's backs quite a lot Jermaine money should sneak up on him but he knows he's not safe Hey Spidey senses going off you know seasonal and a safe place where I stand that's the worst kind of it's a black window kind of seduction the roses staying because he draws the men there's a false sense of security that's been together for four five months I have this discrepancy between them about how long they've been together but he's really hard to use really decided with higher and it builds up trust it seems like the right time to thank well I'm serious by this person and that's meet the parents and do all of that jazz night and so it's all been a long con he's a little Satan is an elegantly done yeah and it's so violent I mean the thing with Jeremy it's obviously Firelands jure knows there's a threat of violence he just knows this is gonna go badly for him and it's done quickly but then with crass so John I and the violence is so massive because it's fat and motional investment if you paid in someone for a long period of time and all of that coming crashing down nine and Henry they knocked on the thing that she could possibly be involved in something unsafe great until the very moment when she chases surveillance when your number's going to think she's certainly she description of course I was switching back and forth he finds the shoe box full of the photographs of the previous conquests of cars I thought she's beating them and then the characters such a good actress that you think of maybe she's been hypnotized into doing this as well and I was back and forth when she was two and then looking for the case and it became so protracted I thought oh no no she has to pay them and then she goes I think Katie and she reveals that yeah she has a thing for a film which ends with a loss of violence and it's not simply the kind of standard horror thing it is someone who's a psychopath doing violent things to make them they ordered violence that companies for this the other way around it's Chris having realize what's about to be done to him and what's been done to so many doctors before by this group of affected him getting his teeth and a very killing three people including succession indirectly telling another one and then doing nothing to stop using Walter Walter yes hello this is my email for your workers and his name was demanding to stop him coming over he manages to wake him up with a flash of his camera phone that seems to be the trigger because the person isn't totally eradicated they're still part of them and their and he discovered this by accident because he recognizes dried but he just can't get where you know some from each presented at this guy Logan Hey is dressed like an old white guy with this woman Hayes thirty years the same year he can't picture it because this guy too when you see Chris's friends broadcasting their research looking into J. and finding out about his disappearance it comes up on the screen on the search that he would suggest me section so this is somebody again Hey it's not just that they're black people except they're very talented or they're very beautiful black people and there's a kind of master race and I think it's nineteen during the terror he manages to shoe horn and all these different examples of things there's a crack up by the Aryan master race it's actually the inverse of what they're doing they're creating this African American master it I have a brother brings one exactly yes and dump it on purpose makes total sense my phone number is that dean is giving Kristen told the house and says this is my dad and he was for my grandparents what happens is this is my best friend he was beaten by Jesse %HESITATION it to the U. S. Olympic squad for the platinum picks in nineteen fifty something and so this is kind of anything matter of somebody having been made to live with the idea of being physically inferior right from the start despite being quite physically strong we are delighted to find that that person is going to be successful in the body be on the ground full text of my friend's wife running abilities he just wants to use the fine good morning Mr we're going strong so they do work there and it's quite frightening moments that it's a moment where you post to start to race one motor problems he could have run anywhere but he runs directly asked correct and then very suddenly veers off there is a deer in the headlights moments without we do spend a lot of time in this account for sheltering in the Chris is going to harm is that he's going to be taken and nearly killed Muhammad we just have a lot of time looking at the time okay is fine a call a couple of big on this very expressive eyes yeah and then we can be harmful a photographer as well it is very fascinating Heidi did they have to send them to Constantine or and I can't remember her character's name is mistaken I kept hearing are being referred to as Mrs Armitage implementing but the names as well because Chris Washington the Armitage family there's just something about you the names may be that thanks Beth further investigation but there is something about eight maybe stay with the plantations that makes it better poking around death with hurting the hypnotism and it sticks scraping of fifty seven and a Cup of tea and the topping it's not even that it's just that the system there so much sharing involved in that on the show much of having someone almost drowning in their own trauma and being blamed and made to feel guilty and shameful for their own trauma for their own victim heads specifically have a trauma talking about is Missy inputting Chris on that without his consent I wish we could because she does it by starting a conversation with him about when he lost his money on she turned the car accidents he was sitting at home just watching TV and it was raining and he didn't do anything when she was a good year he just waited and waited and waited for the scale because she didn't actually Dinah contact the straight away if you don't like to think that maybe if he called someone yeah my friend and fellow also in the last ten year old child before you go for something for which you could yeah okay no it's not so that's expletives to put Amanda and then when he's under I wrote down there to meet at CinemaCon do intend %HESITATION focusing because it dramatizes physically his psychological state and being mmhm and it's done for you having him sinking to the floor and then sink further down into what seems to be this vast continent on board and we should put a few shots from him of what's about him and you can see a tiny little fuzzy screen TV yeah with what he can actually see other designs for men and separately for you deep very similar to the kind of the TV screen I mean can CBO into just looking down and talk and then the extra violating his order to me is that he's been just puts into his bag after that one and persuaded that it's a drink that when elected in the morning he goes okay yeah for the next album and then is to find out later in the day that it did actually happen I can see why find a place where I can take the moment where he starts to free himself ready comes to be a and the baggage that was never an extra time at the end there's no sense of any hurrying tool six times okay what is our friends of our phones okay he makes those people as much as you want because they find it violated you or a battle to fight right you're gonna find every possible way the moment I suppose where he goes to strangle roads he's the last living passing around and whoever was evil and wrong for this body the short list of things that were just leaving crest and then Mister Rogers he's been shocked by that person goes to strangle her to finish it off and he stops I did for myself was start singling out from something %HESITATION okay this is just going to go all the way the film's deliberately made us think that same thing all rights reserved going strangling a woman here he's been in a relationship with she did not speak during physical doing where she was parking tackling things let him change were taken out of place would it be okay but he can just decide it would be okay but then you just just leave it there yeah but that's the mirroring of how he describes his mother being left to bleed to death acts like he's able to forgive himself for that there's a realization that was not my fault this is not my fault I am the victim in both these cases so there is an acceptance maybe there's a sign that the acceptance of topic tonight I was so anxious when I just kept saying can I think I wrote it down even even if he survives all of this he's not cannot and that's some scary if he's got that's how he's burning bakeries for the dead white paper %HESITATION strangling his girlfriend while the sirens and the lights are going up forty thanks going to be a place car and even he knows my time's up he picked his hands up heading south name gotten everything thrown at me here I'm not can I do that it's done night and then it turns out to be rod and you got these moments of comic relief but very incredibly well timed and rod is because there were times with him I was wondering there's a skier thing record stereotypes of black people in general so the likes of there's a woman he said %HESITATION as it trailed by black men as that batter mating is fax batter another woman feels his arms the physicality of a black man and the X. all the size sexual fun to say of the author there's also the Afaria types like Chris is a smoker he likes to smoke joints has fast friends if this really funny quite file my but for a quick way to it's fine okay so he thanked the jolly bay best friends case loyal to that better and sort of thing but rod as the total say if you're the pace because he's the only person he believes press at start saying if when you call all this stuff happening and you're sure about what's going on and you feel like you're compiling evidence but then when you start to explain it to someone it just falls apart even T. H. S. signs on reasonable it signs crazy and I think anybody who's ever pain and emotionally manipulative relationship whether it's being romantic or with family members who were in a friendship or with colleagues many of us will have experienced something along those lines where somebody's doing something that's driving me upset they run through twice then you try and explain it to someone and as she tried to explain it it doesn't sign logical or there's a reasonable explanation maybe you're over tired and %HESITATION you have another cigarette for awhile so maybe it's that there should be some vaccinations so then you start to signs on Hayden's year the problem and then you start to believe that you're the problem so there's a lot of thought going on with hand and rod is the only person he believes ham wrote himself becomes that person because he tries to go to the place he go specifically say black members of the place force because one woman nationally and then she calls into the other guy captions explained everything and he'd go so you can have it and and okay he could have been more of Boston has presentation box we thank Wes Fang said really do happen with violence it really does happen every single day in the United States to people with brain scan you think that they would believe each other but it shows you that and that is reassess them within your own space as well because they just laugh at him they don't entertain S. so he's on his own and so he comes to the rescue himself at the end and he's our port security so why he has a card it can have any you know make Sir well he doesn't make jokes but they come across is that fast because it's funny and his delivery that he had even more detective training then the detective I mean he's just an S. character he's really fantastic there anyway he thought stereo typical funny five black guy he's ready for a minute and has such a read them every other word if after five he has such a residence here and he can say certain words that we come Friday and get away with it so he's that kind of typical comic right but there is substance to him yeah there is a running of this character and he is not susceptible to the roses manipulations he shocked that I even able to accommodate with losses where Nazism for character development for Chris is one of the public on this phone it doesn't go Hey you know how there's this sense of ways in which you can really involve your audience in the story I'm not gonna do any of those struggle to confront anyone who goes to this real quick I want to show you how almost certainly I can do this entire catalog of things that are part of the program serves one of the servers that are regarded as completely fifteen with a photo of the class classicism in contemporary cinema Chriss change for the better discount I'm confident and it becomes able to stand up to people who make IT and able to just realize what's wrong acts on it immediately it gets significant counselor the firm did a shameful unfortunately my collection from just in the sense of I didn't realize that it was forty five the very first scene before they haven't cut its way back to me could not going ahead with that seventy Shelton to shop the first choice really quite close seven to dry and it's not showing you much in the background so that when Germany finally jumps and its on the information space walks for the mastermind Henderson the compress quite as firing mode while it's making a Rhine Tennessee do you feel pretty disorientated you start to feel his anxiety at being in this neighborhood lows that come from but then the second of those two shots and sequences it's a still extreme long shots of Germany last week and now Jennifer and dragging dry unconscious marking the constant given the very yeah and then a brown ten minutes later at the first show where we get to see roses patrons and the short black crystals are tough to get to see them and makes them thanks for showing him extremely well one of those moments where the action would prompt someone according to have it to go up you know this is about people making use of it this needs to be filled in singles and doubles titles but now it's like the firm is next in Washington right that the film was saying to us what's happening here is exactly the same as what you just so happen in that particular sequence even though it looks like you've been shot with some accuracy the camera does start to pull back as well it does make it static at first and then as they go into the heis at very silly posts by somebody show for so this should be interesting for many aspects of content but also because the cameras and big problem very precisely choreographed many months and have just during conversations another meals yeah focus specifically on the camera's gonna be moving from here to here it's gonna be picking this one three four three if you do that again and again and again but using it yeah the camera one of the characters as outlined in the cash and again yeah well that's why I think they probably rehearsed before they actually shot anything everything that was really precise what I was trying to say with it hell and back but then it reveals Walter Johnson %HESITATION for them yeah at that point he's just the groundskeeper and then we know later the significance of that I thought he's actually the orchestrator of all of this at least the person who calls himself Walter who was previously Roman on the teaching and the body of however this is K. three identities that the people he's being we might call them step for this %HESITATION %HESITATION they've been body snatched it whatever your recorder that is the identity of residency of the persons on the case of the person because of what I became he was originally Dr Haber and then we learned ways Roman Armitage here is a retard twenty years ago %HESITATION he's a buddy of somebody because it's our fault %HESITATION but we know that that's probably no individual names is a third name M. S. somewhere and basically with the fact that dry hay with things been changed came that is I think this is a nation to slavery got it so you just want to get the savings of their own so this change your names or numbers to these lofts and then of course to be able to give dry hay with parties name instances of symbolic way of working as a conspiracy for that matter to them right that's one thing that I guess a man saying change for another certain in his care an inmate press Washington and Logan came research specific names of prominent fakers and yes have straight number brought surname that was in the factory the one thing at the end it's clear plans okay there are two reasons there's going to be looking for the services everything wrong with version of this because sometimes when the film is amazing I do them but they got a yeah we really strict about what about over this one because we can find much over this show really caught up with him and they do like a two minute version what happened to them again Mexico set Hayden suggests developing again it's that idea of you convince someone that they are to blame for something that turned off today and for him to go to the surgery the file and then expose way saying counteracting oxidative suggested validate the suggestion that you could see a situation and a different way or experience life in a different way and she's putting them in the sunken place that really reminded me maybe it was the way it was done but it reminded me of under the skin the place where the card Johnson Marion this taking them then and sort of driving them and that's the one thing just something about it but I do think some against your well being drawn in at stake beyond consent you've given consent to do this but you've been persuaded over a long period of time or three certain set of actions that you want today this one actually if someone had just presented you with it you would see it for what it was so there's a long con constantly happening there the way she sends him into the sunken place but him being a photographer and him always seeing things very free and then there's something as well he says that somebody says something about watching something on television and he said how much television since I was a kid because eight SO zero seven the trauma of facing his mother because he was at home watching the television while she was dying in pain it's just something you can't stay anymore but then they forced him to watch screens they forced him to watch television screens who has experience of being in the sunken place and is on the VA of real life S. three %HESITATION what is like a television screen makes trying to swim through the E. thirty get back to it but the more he fights the more he thanks a life event when he's trapped and that seems to be the basements the card hand binds to the chair he sat in front of an old television it's great and this %HESITATION place explaining to the person and then also tell us what's really happening and that's also high he's repeatedly paid under as that the couple come on screen and climb three times and he'll go under normally I would say this sort of thing coming a mile off but I think it's a testament to hide well constructed the found is there's a motif it's Alicia facial militate of him when he's buying to a chair and scratching the first eight when he has been coined during the middle of the night way mistake and she's starting to hypnotize them and he's grabbing at the arms of the chair and then there's the flashes to a eleven year olds crass scraping chatter with these nails waiting for his mother to come home and then that's married again when he finds to the chair James River price for you okay you have to be prepared for the surgery because there's a darts board behind him their central framing it's a very cute break room and it's often a very cute breakaway century for a M. wide angle lens so that it's building the stored it at some natural failing symmetrical there's a stark bird in the center and then there's the double %HESITATION him in the meta you know it's a sad if that center the fram not kind of thing first in the movement of any subjects the camera can move and so it feels like %HESITATION camels dominating so there's that and then there's the chatter dead center in front of this very old television set that seems to have double speakers either side of the actual screen but she she has no scratching and he scratched the latter all and the fluffy innards are starting to come by and you see him working very some thanks and even the fact that so wealthiest for hands day and %HESITATION when it reveals that he's you you see the stuff I in some high call the dentist heirs to plug his ears so he doesn't hear the crying anymore so he he pretends to be alright but he's not he's away even not to think oh that's how you did at sushi everything and at the line site she constantly but I think that's the point is that this is all going on and planned sites were saying this everyday were saying this in front of us all the time the end battery SSM we're just possibly going along with our lives this film is so calm thing and every way I mean the construction of Kazakhstan what purpose will begin as well as reading a few accounts of alternative endings that Jordan who was playing with an even a couple of actually filmed and want the included that it was the police rather than not he's picked up in the end another one was for anything in which he doesn't escape a completely different thing %HESITATION broad strokes at the house sees Chris goes hi Chris what's going on Chris and stuff yeah right yeah but that apparently Jordan has said that he didn't go with the ending workers is picked up by the police and then wrote twenty two cents to get in I'll try to explain what's been going on because he realized that that the number of consciousness raising injuring twenty sixteen a pile police victimizing of African Americans so he said he initially thought he didn't need to help find FF six or be okay to not have to show that the police don't believe five people and infection it might have been overkill actually because there's already a scene of black cops not accepting Lombok command saying up by another black man possibly being kidnapped and some sort of weird me type of slavery at sign so white Monday shin yet it's perfectly possible he's already actually got that in there so it probably would have been over kept that I think that that was what I was expecting and it was such a relief that they didn't go there and he's allowed to win the day and that's what was making me think actually because I was waiting for the place to turn up and for nobody to break him and for him to just accept no he's gonna beneath me as expected and is it going to be and I just and I think that the black guy is a hero he can't story everything he's done everything right and yet he shows shots that's nice that reliance on the end and you can sort of happy ending in a way he survives and somebody believes him there's a solidarity between the friends %HESITATION that hopefully they'll rebuild something I would say it's probably the right call it's nice to see somebody who spend resources file %HESITATION work to tight surviving perspectives for service did this have to be so about rex couldn't have been some way of getting into fiction the author of a laceration the conflict is America realistic less racially conflicted speaking everybody handing them ahead of the beginning of the film that that's not something which people who are aware of what racial tensions like in the US are ready to arrive I think we don't realize the extent that we do have that here in the U. K. but it's nowhere close it's not even touching what seems to be going on in America at the moment we from marching in the sash of iron colon he is America they they you know I'm fully aware that there's likely to be contrivance because otherwise I really do worry for his life so anyway I hope there's a contrivance and Hey they get on the show but a lot of the people they do get we know our radio concert politicians their profiles are right there to see them being really quite genuine and their basis %HESITATION thermostat to name their homophobia or transphobia the program at the chase it really is terrifying it's time they haven't seen the rape of Recy Taylor and not from they describe the black films of the periods when the KKK was very physical it was actively and axing nine tenths amount of violence on people and they they three S. films were being made by black people for black people so that they have a night that for their stories because no one else was believing them or listening to them so they could at least see themselves and know that we're not making this up this is happening to us I felt like it's taken far too long for the all of this to happen but it feels like it's nice enough to make a film like cat all right to make a point and I think it is pointed that like this is the phone for white people with white people need to say yes because it's white people who have made it's black people racist against each other as well our ancestors have done to their ancestors that has caused this there is a collective culpability here that was even interested in the summer but the statistics because I kept thinking to myself John about a fifteen two thirds the family kept thinking everyone looked the whole there's lots of people being shown very morning or late evening business of people being short with the sun behind them lots of diffuse light and lots of making sure that when you shoot in paper dark skin but you don't make the skin look all the same color and you do that by making sure that you use light sensitivity settings that are specific to different skin tones rather than just using the device and sickness I think this is what's changing not free character which involves lots of not cheating two people in the same frame because it's quite difficult to get all the different shades a single person skin when right next to somebody who's got much larger much darker so it's like that for the first two thousand from and then suddenly turned back when I went to just turn up to the store before %HESITATION everything just often go yeah the lights in the back of the blue %HESITATION and they'll start to look a lot like that basically Reuters when she picks up a phone call from road on Chris's phone line and she's wearing white hair is tied back and has skin it looks like she's about skin bleaching quite slow okay do you want to sit in the main line even at the level of life the fact this okay a big crowd but seemingly if they'll have racial equality we've been telling you about the post office phone I think it probably worked out that the computer side and will not change the way the complete works and it's a great stone terrifying environment yeah in a way it's making this huge comment about slavery where these people were seen as PS and as no better than animals that's how you keep somebody dying when you think these are the updates but we don't want them to know that they're they are late so we're going to make them feel like the lowest form of creature and do everything for us because we counted ourselves because we're a bit rubbish actually but I can do it because they've call this physicality it feels like it was a huge comment about you right back to the origins of slavery because there's this question of why he specifically targeting black people even the only other person who isn't white as the old Japanese guy Hey corn nourish crafts and asks him this really huge we had a clash and %HESITATION by being an African American what that means today why do you expect one person to represent all of this kind of person just because that's what his skin looks like so back to the idea of the they can master if it's this idea of the white people thinking my body is not good enough their bodies are perfect that's exactly what I want I want that physicality I won't but they have I'm taking it for myself it's not taking up the bodies again and then there was a point where when rose had brought on the phone and it was clear that she was going to start to try and manipulate it with ten I can really help thank in Basra where shifts gonna go because would anybody actually want him because I think they may be specifically chose then take off five character he wears glasses and has a bev in Egypt as he really desirable and this year master AS she's just messing with him because it's never progresses issue evidence either way for that kind of comedian but yeah you have to wonder because when you see the photographs and the people that you J. C. N. S. %HESITATION latest expanded %HESITATION lame floral fender old attractive they've called strength physical spades physical agility and I think the thing with Georgina as she constantly being harassed because the painting yourself she's concerned with their appearance she's checking in the mirror and it's because I don't know if we ever get the name but should be that's the grandmother of the family which is actually never really revealed but it's implied when you find out that Walter is Roman Armitage and she's consummating her appearance you never hear voice or anything you see here and the images and photographs the video that presents me to watch and she found the old white woman so she's concierge fan beautiful the %HESITATION bald eighty point today as well that because they've had this brand surgery there's the massive scarring on the head so that men are wearing Hans and Eugene is going away ache so her constantly training %HESITATION Harris it's not even old black people if the physical late of black people as seen through the eyes of the white people this list of nicknames for new forms of race as far as surprises from a B. the racism of unrealistic public expectations the racism of the mean people to be nine more than that bodies albeit by praising them verses of envy this is an event because of the high tech technicians discuss have a mixture of all these things happened very early on right there's a sense because so we're gonna go to my parents this weekend the show on their list and Crisco do they know one park should be here for that and my parents in the press I would have told you if there is that kind of okay well we can just set up right now and in the sense of regarding black people as being uniformly in favor of the white people in every way she's rocked there's just a different sort of race could we perhaps by Michael was one of those films where the medium by which the story is being transmitted to the viewer what I've been collaborating principle in that process is at certain points in the film just about tangible enough to call the end right because it seems not a stone tool came as no character doing for seven right now but but it's a really quite store can hamper the seven point eight seven the right to his focus lies in our main white characters it's five or seven focused increase our manpower on the fire there's even a business and then the backline doctors at the party they're always staring at him they're always looking at him the women quite and accommodate sort of way thank you these gorgeous phase all right that kind of way I even when they're out of focus they're always looking towards him and then he's always looking as well so his combat uses long lenses of the camera to pro se see first serve to try and investigate and also there's subjectivity in the signs on occasions there was a moment with Georgina you get the sense that sometimes her actual file is almost going to override the person has taken over as if that surgery maybe wasn't as successful as the other ones Chris says mass hostility I think he's getting this failing that the other black people who think I drink don't want tomorrow and there and then he thinks at first of its two day with rose that may be there but precious about her and he can figure out what exactly it is and he's being a peeping to nice to being fake nice to me and I can't figure out why they don't really want me around here and it's because there's this tug of war that we don't realize going on inside these mines S. is ten nine seven one Broadway and won a screaming get out of here see if your style kill me on the other is this white person he's been transposed into them trying to go buy things and trying to get him to stay because they want him to become one of them there's this passion PO constantly happening there's moments of slippage with Georgina where the signs when she's pouring ice drinks when she's pouring ites crisis drink she go somewhere in our mind it's almost is that something else takes over the signed starts to blur she they serve way she becomes a bit shocks and then when there's a confrontation between thirteen M. and Chris because he's realized that she spends on backing is phone from its charger and he has to charge ever there's this over right you can see the overhead the acting's Justin credible from everyone because they're doing this double famous double performance I must've taken weeks of preparation of getting this right because tears are coming from her it's a fifteen years of being pushed out of them from something deep inside I don't know how they change that but I think credible and she's telling him with her eyes he need to go you're not safe here I want you to go because this isn't okay but then everything else about her it overwrites the new programming take so far and you get the laughter he kept the smiling the very wide ice and they overnight to you get this flash in the eyes of you need to lay her not safe and then it will be over written by that happy I think that there are very very very little competition between regional cuisine but she goes okay everything's fine I just turned around and leaves she gave way too far yes it's perfect that will touch every Saturday yeah and there were so many things like that of her she's making summer and it's really fast and doesn't make a sign it's almost like she's floating thirst that horrific elements of stopped or something spectral about her and of course she is the co host and away they all are because that this house go for person they're a dead body walking your I. ends quickly saying that this is one of those early novels where everyone involved in screenwriting directing everyone to realize that there are traditions global within months of service and that the way which one does something new there's no point going I'm gonna buy the every single position good move outside of a free single type of story that's ever been banquet definitely parking or something new that's what we do is we take something that has already been done the ordinance is a base model from anywhere and you just do it in a way you want it some of the content is and you shoot it and stated in a way that is okay prosecutors say some neighborhood looks a bit like a specific words hi this is the second one is better Kevin Smith film could red states as well in the morning Texas chainsaw massacre came to mind but the people's brains being transplanted in the forties but they were still under the body stuff that does affect brain Maximilian somewhere but I don't come across anything right now %HESITATION and it's the fact that that originality is a challenge to expectations that have been planted by father aspects of film but %HESITATION notification %HESITATION there's a broker right now another reason sense okay cool back to and from that difference is part of that they were very open with some of the expectations of the motion by this from here okay well the one thing that frustrated if we didn't have those visual elements that would be great I know that we do our best when the new phone quality right now we don't have to I think they're just giving them a call this is taking all the term solid solid filmmaking and given that it means something like two thousand percent profit %HESITATION can go a long way so the best of them so quickly at ten seven other thought about your chain now because the very fail and the photographs and roses ran a situation that was one of those earlier conquests there's this implication that they'll go to any length Hey even as rose she seems to have just been born and bred spokesman Jeremy thing to spend part of bread he comes across as rating on him she's just really erratic and violent there's something about their system controls the level of violence and have money it's just there is something %HESITATION Alex from the clockwork orange support him for me but with rose you know she's the sweet openly accepting her send it's just a very quick moments but the idea that there's this long string of men and then it right at the end the last photograph is Georgine N. so what does that say about sexuality what does that say about what these people what thanks he's preparing to go to a modern way I think this phone for acceptance of something it's not heteronormative but just because there's one woman and that doesn't mean she's bisexual I either she's clearly accidents with everybody so it's all the performance but it fits super acceptance of the house I mean the film about weight of pain where it's Georgina being the pants and not just as a black person but that it's a lesbian relationship so with imagining that it's not just all of that I'd have voted for Obama a third time it's not just that it would explain all the tokens but I Spanien stuff you could think of as well as a sort of like %HESITATION and I'm a huge fan of so and so you know we love Ellen to generous and that's how something like that like it's just imagining that it would be the base and the sexuality and her kids and it would go to a farm protest too much it's very very thoughtful but it is and then zero point which I was very excited to notice where they seem to be a common goal of rose's room seemed to be an album cover by Chris cross river crisscross %HESITATION seem to be cold something is dead this goes with that and you said it like if you took the disco often that great Christmas ads yeah %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION okay yeah something's going on yeah I think they're probably having fun with the Nissan fan detailed email send yeah strong reviews scale and cinematography color range I think one of the tools that they the incidental music was quite conspicuous more of a fine harmful proffered tight curves available posible even slightly sci fi situation I have a firm that everything the wrong way has done everything will get something fifteen I'm probably gonna go see them having some criticisms of the stuff but for the moment we have done this spring I would get only wrapping up on a drug peddler alone said exactly as he paid it but I will say situation handles but not really because this is still a massive problem yeah four nine for this podcast many thanks for listening if you have ideas for future topics or would like to be involved in a recording you can email audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com tweet at eight feet cultures and to find a Facebook page also asked AV cultures take care for night and catch you next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 15 – A Quiet Place automated transcript


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hello this is episode fifteen of audio visual cultures the podcast dedicated to exploring signed an image cultures an older many forms I'm your host Paula Faris this week entry Sheila knight discuss a quiet place pretty much immediately after the screening and to Tyneside cinema cafe over much needed to Cup of chamomile tea because they're at the cafe there be a little bit of background noise but hopefully you'll hear us okay that's followed by a bit of an addendum from me on my own reflecting a bit more on the film thank you so much to my patrons TA any money received three patches on peach tree on our show gratefully received and make a really big difference any patches me it's the money goes towards firstly sustaining the podcast and working towards improving it because I'm working with fairly rudimentary equipment and I'm just if I can buy it but I will need to start replacing and updating software and hardware I'm starting to have guests on the podcast so it's just nice to be able to buy them a cuppa or some lunch or something like that to thank them for taking part tonight thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed this discussion on a quiet place we are having some serious decompression time my son come on my own Sir a quiet place please that was John Krasinski very small cast and then every single person incredible Simmons was playing the characters aren't but the credits you see things coming she is thanks bye actress and this is something that we were having a very when we want a sip of water was actually disabled people disabled characters so I think it's very exciting and not only I'm having a really nice and she comes first race space create a saying that they really fall for medicines they ready for service they really fought for her and secular you can see right she's a real star in the making I'm saving credible this is the moment by moment on several different levels compromise between tension about what you can't see intense times I've seen so many times from first things first is more than I thought and then there's performances without speaking but with American Sign Language I can sound design both directors the number yeah you know have just been pro the the features but you notice every tiny thing and every tiny detail in the Foley signs exaggerated much more than it paid for at least there's more attention drawn to it because every science matters to take K. when's your with Magen tiles because she can't hear the noises that she's making she seems to be totally get subject to sign sign some points it's really fussing with her everything send the signs your the implication I think she's almost if not totally as a matter of some urgency because she had one of his hearing aids which shows it means the bank those are the people who are I don't know how they were it was something that really relates surgery that she had before the invasion she had previously had some sort of way system technology help a lot of trouble was moving you version that I had that is made for her and for the fixed up as soon as I the network uses figures you can figure out whether we were getting new hearing however this is an indication that it is working before because there wasn't much some points we were next to nothing I think one of the reasons nothing nothing is next source again only hearing in this we're going to use you might be hearing about if we're going to close this as you see even the hardest making signs of tests it is risky every single thing is making me super anxious recruitment service that we were a little concerned with the marching one he's merely Sonnenfeld cinemagoers Roxy I wouldn't be times they were nearly completely quiet he paid money separating thorough cops show up during behind us yeah couple with result it was quite funny initially when there was somebody on the other hand the car was trying in old desperation and science and that was a bad areas frankly it's just stretching his adolescence a time there was some issue writing and I suspend the real source of anxiety makes dying CSO and I need that the best experience is going to be on the big screen especially if you have someone sign because all the tiny signs are going to be amplified so I really wanted to experience for punishment because of course the saps the best phone to see if you've got IT disorders I think members of such service because the level of anxiety to you this when you were trying to buy but for people forcibly taken to calling the it's not the three options fine make a lot of people reaching her first laughter so people are laughing things aren't funny because I think they needed some sort of relates to retention you will be taken you were in the special magic Kosei internalize it so I was crumbling into money so when the baby by the time it's just a pull my hand over my face I'm still in the instinctive cover face don't look it up on the mail on most force myself to do it yeah I think people want finds a bit cheesy eighties these numbers now sticking up out because she knows she cannot make noise and she cannot reacts in the natural way and you know that this is only a precursor to the pain that she's about to go through the upper rooms looking for tomorrow it would show who nearly stepping on the nail I never got I think I knew it was coming because I turned the interview with them they've given away she didn't what's going to happen but it was the nail I'm completely okay with spoilers came into service fine but when it's facing the famous brown you know I even right there I think it is just more the film was originally is ten storms go I'm not gonna call for assistance from Mexico it was the lead with it phrases before eight and eighteen users thing of having appointments starts and then softening for the okay it's going to tell you about we can every millisecond that did that it's beginning to bloom there is no three people being afraid for the wrong reasons the owner of that we can have quite a lot and then the whole system is going to collect it's a good product three there was just enough time to set up for these people's lives were at a point which seems to be something line a year and a half of the eighty when I was done we are fucked into tension yeah %HESITATION stuff and focus this was the stuff because making films these days you do not have to have sex you just have to focus on that made it to use relatively shallow depth of lenses means the job that we were given for the past twenty minutes which was strewn on to focus areas for thirty six ninety and the smoke the very vivid colors to have the standard this is an existing I don't have a looking for maybe when a couple of Johnson two years ago this is what happens behind the security camera footage seven right please I was just I was looking at them I was scanning the security camera screens going I think if that's something there in terms of genre because it's me and ten HM I think it's posing the question what if he had a family member no one to me it's a very sign language gesture and expression rather than I think it's the sheer tens probably for marketing reasons are horror however tension several of the things you can take a single from the comics three trailers for eighteen these are neighbors comments the only trailers on that way it's a tense the most recent ones it's a whole different this may have been a change in gearing often okay hello we're gonna start to the scanning the shelves for monsters challenge that we have lost eighty minutes during the emotional intensity of music because it was response as the tension sign and landscaping company by I know he's with several points being recognized choose single some just about qualifies as music I'm reminded of the service this is it is not what you go it's definitely going to the borders of the film more effective music because music is a surgery center so please answer those two levels to get understandably we need this removes some of its main eight point spectacularly and in part from yeah the absolute for months to return this film I had to kind of rise it's the drama let me speak in text on screen which is something that I'm not concerned with the fact that I was conflicted because works as well yeah the character make anything insidious RT teens there's no real barriers because the company is actually normalized to her way of speaking for their survival she the issue still lack of communication and not fathers nor any communications insider I don't blame you for that their child and I love you very much yeah Dasein centering on it you know the tears Japanese because it has most of the films great fundamentals from the from families wanting different things for each other and the street having cheating the unity conflict is there was also some larger scale drama because there's just a couple moments where you got to see what kind of society they were living in because initially it was some of the people it seems and they might be this is an emergency situation and then some of those beacons not happening later on the phone with something like tension is John so I don't know if they weren't happening or if we just we're getting to see them the way position early on when I think there was one you can keep it yeah they can keep and then this thing is I mean this one in the woods when you decided to commit suicide by most in this environment but also it wasn't clear why he decided to do the very second third people it was everything was because of the stigma and so the fact that there was the phrase springs and stuff he just lost his way I think I still have the same you guys this time I'm going to I mean again please because this guy your name is please before that primal scream you might coming into my mind actually because I was thinking about the baby being born first the end of the father the site my case is also a waterfall see for them to make it safe for them to him specifically father and son is expressed some south by yelling into the waterfall because it can be shop for the audience's point of view from the other side of it any time you hear them they say that they're ready here then because a wonderful survives the central view it this film is everyone wants to be able to make it and we will return not just the employment but the everything was so quiet we we answer the ends when the climactic okay we figured out what's the first thing we're going to make a noise sure the screen is going to communicates with his for a moment because the maintenance was seventy three sixty three piece technology that the hearing the reason remember these three methods to cleanse the planet they want to make anyway technologies because it's listening technologies and technologies and it's killing technologies the whole big thing was syncing up with humans to be initially stipulated as the ones who is possible the technology on the music and then there was going to be predictable number of the different content is the thing that makes a superior we just need to reset the action on the mental mistake called me is that they keep the girls side of the basement and the girls need to be in the mail now playing with the experiments in the first place because then you'll get that's the the situation is one in which the boys going out and doing stuff the system will again be at this time the place is the sister but it has you should make the trees are going to drop every five minutes anyway so she thinks this is four year old boy actually this is again is he doesn't get it I think it's worth pointing right the pregnancy because it starts off eighty nine days you don't need to work in a system the first eighty nine today we suppose and it's the same opening sequence X. four hundred seventy two days later sorry and you see characters have any pregnant so I knew about the pregnancy sweets the other week bye Nish Kumar the comedian going I said that these people are still buying internal less they sell Zacks very quietly take for calls and all of this time and I was thinking maybe she's already part or something they can do it's very clear days were given this can also be when this for a year later this is post apocalyptic I do want the weather wasn't either anyone going to make a really big mistake because as a logistics we don't need to consider to do with what happens when the baby cries because babies probably think they by setting up the time frame I have to say as someone he has a real please they could have done a hell of a lot more sign eight hours nothing on them you can say things thanks you didn't sign up so they try to address I think and then they set the crepe sign but when they're in the sample on the line and then in terms of the %HESITATION surgeon time with inputs over the baby's face very close to the light I do think that someone in to know that this isn't Emily blunt's character and some pride reason the %HESITATION she's become very knowledgeable we don't know where but he seems to have a medical condition at least Ernie on the scale that's why they're in a drug store and she's looking for medication for him and see Medicaid sent back to shop it's one of those where the folks the containers %HESITATION sense of focus okay and you can see me am so their prescription for specific most of him was I think it was M. sextape provision and making it what the medication was not know what medications are for their names I think it was the same case service names to see if there's anything because you don't during it but it's really nice to extend their names in the credits introducing was a great woman just how many for contracts that we're gonna be in this film and I should be counting them there was so many you're looking at this idea or not caramel thick lens for trucks as well we need to it's quite a noticeable distortion that was quite conspicuous state captain talking slightly lacking in total and that may have been a good thing because even more most the person spoke on one of the things that was really noticeable surround sound there was so many instances where the sand was everywhere and then suddenly it was re elected and then suddenly it was from the right direction %HESITATION to the sound being quite exquisite control as well I think you just come right in the screen's going where it's at we would be arriving apocalyptic situations which is exactly like it is in the Senate you mean somebody's you know we good enough for some days and why it is because I am to come say no matter how much I try to be quiet I make this because everything properly and then I would be the first to die and many days you know sometimes when it is ready for protests and a bunch of resistance turned up in the past because they suspect that that's going to be faced with our team that's what we should do we should discontinue a product like this kind of boxing helmets people can log get some preliminary answers given by the mission of our excel mama said knock all this stuff they have so much so that was just sitting around waiting to be knocked over her father rebate noises there was a couple of details and hours going hang on how does that work former things was she was listening to something on headphones September you have some sort of personal music right how did that yeah he connects I'm see how the charging an iPhone and it was like an old fashioned person no using batteries may be less specifically have access to thousands of faxes so maybe nothing really annoys me when she was doing a report the baby running on this column back in the next few days to set up the next day it can be for me it was that they were using the calendar for the year I think it was for the twenty twenty to twenty twenty one I don't really know if the Dennis apocalypse something like two thousand nineteen would anyone have actually had access to a twenty twenty one is the camera in the years leading up yeah things like that but I can greenest marker for it was twenty sixteen to twenty twenty minutes over a year after that yes the film takes place right it's the next service in twenty twenty one twenty twenty percent it happened in just kind of stopped in the street but you know this is go on because I overruled twenty two twenty four year old machine that I think is going to close the case having seen temperatures right we're aware that you can take a very tense and invasion it's don't miss stories based on the issue that is going to be some sort of apocalypse very nice to me even if it's that was interesting because it was the right thing it was connected thank neighbours relatives I think it was determined that resumes his most of yeah but it was a different story for something like that and to close the loan shark please we've got some work to do and and looks like she's on her way yeah tells me you're getting another reminder there are two short stories from something like seconds from about nineteen and their benefits when something happens and everyone in London becomes effective we thank you for your face everyone is on the fence you can find and the last one is the virus and everyone gets it and it makes lying to somebody at the end of the but of course how do you survive for that time in both instances the way the people survive is by calling on the block people in New London like the back of the house they can help running an instinct is the only the two stories the government doesn't notice any enough on the blind certain kind of individuals in cases going %HESITATION right we go blind I can help the government does realize it's time and then opened eyes opening service lines are made to do things like access cab drivers to get around London driving cabs and the leading department said the reminder that was this is when they send people who happens to be the best people to and so insiders thank you sorry to cause pain the worst thing about it you're trying to develop new ones since then Sam away analyzing so today's lesson is in a situation in which sound as a weapon being used against a former death also just listen to the people you have no figure that the more message yeah sorry for some south son a quiet place if you're happy to indulge me I was wondering whether any comparable examples of creature features these kinds of monster movies that are quite impressive I was also thinking about further about a genre and not you should probably a sub genre there to be had with a hyphenated it's tension horror drama something like fast so thinking are there any comparable examples and Joe's is probably the clearest star that certainly the first example that springs to mind their sap oppressive non human presence representing something probably quite repulsive about human emotion or behavior and in a quiet place it's the silencing of the whole population and the picking off of the population as well the total shock kind of society really and the killing of non conformists so anybody he come to refuses to be silenced are disposed of I was also thinking about film cold darkness falls which was quite a mild horror from too sorry since ray I don't think it really made much noise and itself to sort of make upon I am only aware of it because a few years ago I examines for the moving image arts and awful and Northern Ireland and a clip from the film was something that it shouldn't be required to do sick within hours so it's a very mild not very goods I guess young adults horror at the plate the spirit of a person he had been lynched hundred fifty years earlier and the spirit comes back it takes the form of the taste right because I think it specifically targets children and it only attacks at night and you have to stay in the light and this is an idea that has been done a few years before and an X. files episode of the same name only there it wasn't spirits it was also if which lends swarm of kind of locust like creatures who would feed on the flash but only if you were in the dark raffia finished cooking kind of thing ands can share in the body that way so not promise you have to stay in the light to survive in a quiet place you need to stay in the silence to survive and the creatures count CA they are just taxing a more with radar signs the creatures seem to be giant eight years he hoped that it seems to be huge sonic receptors and I was also wondering you could probably rate them as being representative of a disorder called misa phony yet I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing I've never heard it said before I've read a lot about it because I suspect that I have this it's also cold and knowing the first selective sign sensitivity syndrome S. S. S. S. is to commit difficult sign and it said neurological disorder that's a deep intense hatred of signs and people have different triggers for the S. mine for example would be very happy brave thing I can't stand the sight of that it's quite prevalent points because particularly in the cinema it's incredibly aggravating it's a space in which to become fully immersed in the phone that you're watching you need silence you need everybody else to be considerate and to stop talking and stop using their phones and to not be moved around so much the knocking everything over and making lots of distracting noise so I think this film is the perfect case so they sort of Fenway playfully thinking about the idea of the film as a fun to say for those of us who are seconds by design to fathers Hey at least intense spikes of anxiety because of the noise the other people make so that could be something to probe and say at that bit further because in a way there were so many when I refer to the code of referring to the weather channel and code of conduct and the sentiments of ten points that you're not supposed it creates things like you know reading of anything harder than a soft roll no slurping of trying no talking no mo bile snow hoping he's really record ten things that are quite allow you to require talking ins may thing and that sort of thing and I'm saying this in a joking way anyway you're kind of font sizing that those creatures would come in and pick off the people who were talking during the film and being really distracting there was a lot of people you couples passing very noisy pockets popcorn back in forests are talking and I mean it's different having a response to the film I'm quite a quiet person and I think because of the film I was at hearing to its rails I went into great silence I crumpled into myself I was holding my my eyes closed every time something incredibly tense was happening whereas Andrea initially couldn't help himself reacts verbally to accomplish things and normally that's fine it's just I think it's not found as if I I visit hearing to the rules of the film itself for a second make noise turned S. will die so that I really go into it and that was part of the immersive experience of it for me but unfortunate wasn't not immersive I couldn't really get fairly into it because you're so aware of all these other people and there is a palpable you there is a very clear sense of tension and the rams and it's a collective experience but there's so many people hate are not participating in that it really breaks the spell which is unfortunate so I kind of wanted to creatures come in and pick off because people and %HESITATION everything don't really but when you're in that moment and you're just desperate for somebody to be quiet when they're just being really inconsiderate and having it talked with someone sharing not just a film but a phone like that it's really aggravating and it's been interesting listening to the commode Mayo some a few shows it's been interested in listening to the review use your winter ten days right in and they talk about their own experiences and they noted that there's been a real spike actually in the emails I've been getting about code violations it's amplified more in this film because it's so quiet it's been fascinating hearing emails where in some instances the film is commanding science from its audience but it's unfortunate that it's not all audiences there are lots of audiences right there that are really just not playing ball with this one and I was wondering what really does it take for other fears to start considering others more I went into this a little bit a few weeks ago when I was reflecting on our discussion after visiting the museum not time but there's just such a huge lack of consideration for other users of a public space and sentiment as a public space and it's also and it went private on same time because you're supposed to be able to be immersed and your own connection with the phone and when other people are making %HESITATION possible I mean I have to say it was probably a bit more relaxed because it turned out that we had free tickets on our Tyneside membership cards which we didn't know about it so we actually got to see the film for free but as free as you can have it when you've paid for a membership of course and plus I've had a couple of glasses of wine is filed with dinner beforehand so I was a bit relaxed going into it I mean there were times when I was turning around into the people behind us I'm probably if it's been a bit closer I would have said something and I didn't I think because of the film as well you know I felt compelled to coach but I didn't I think because of the phone that you're watching there's plenty of other films for any I've gone and spoken to people because it's just been unacceptable and you haven't been able to ignore it this is sort of a mark no matter how quiet you try to pay your amplified by the silence and I think that's anyway nice segue into thinking about it silences in the fire I was reminded of the scene and Marnie where to be had Germans character is a face and she's rope something from the safe and she's trying to leave her office building and there's a container there Hey you don't know yet but it turns out that the cane or staff when Marnie drops or she you know and it's a really incredibly tense scene and it's completely silence until doctoral Poppins ready highly tense its interest in watching that one because you're in mind emotionally with the morally reprehensible characters so you believe it to be at this point until you know Sean Connery rapes and fixes her of course but it's true that use of science that you become aligned with her because it's so deeply tense and of course hedge coke was a silent film director and when he was directing films in the silent era he was using signed a lot already and it was signed it you could see happening like doors slamming and that sort of thing the original silent version of his first sign from black male for example the famous knife sane the original thought it's actually the door slamming that makes us jump on on the subject of tourism days many nice bike race here hope you look great it was kind of driving me a bit month to different no doors and the hallways this or anything and the creatures just had free reign to wonder and then night places but then I was thinking of course there's no doors because torture law aids if they slam even accidentally even just the closing mechanism that sort of thing it would draw attention so they have to live in a world that's also without doors which is quite terrifying and there should be a lack of privacy the creatures just they're able to permeate space yes because there's no closable barriers it's really just the things like the mattress and stuff which is stuff that they can move easily it's unfortunate because he imagined Melton Vichy after the scripture seems to pay for them to have these massive nutcracker style clothes disposed of many that they seem to have these massive claw like arms that fold back on themselves and they don't seem to have finger like appendages imagine that they wouldn't really be able to open doors for a while but they can't risk having the doors slamming and drawing attention so it's really difficult thing there very often signed as not just an amplifier but it is I mean my soul film but I think it's more obvious here because it is so silent that signed extends screen space at expense the joker fate of what you're aware of Mr Smith by the geography of space and where anybody might be at any time it extends but we called me some sandwiches everything you see on the screen because you can hear what you can't say that is if you are able to hear you can hear what you can't see and there is a really terrifying moments when Millicent Simmonds character is looking for her brother and it's day four hundred and seventy three and it's the night that the mother's going into the upper and they've all got separated she's looking for her brother right now the fields the creature is behind her and it scanning around for being able to hear anything because she's making the tiniest dressing noises so it perceives some things nearby but I can't see her and so it's the creature that comes C. but can hear everything and she's the being that can see everything in our field of vision but she has no hearing and she can't hear that it's behind her she started to crackle that hearing it that her father has devised for her and it's then by accident that she starts to figure out that it's to do with the frequent say that if you can get high enough it will actually hurt these creatures so it's a kind of Eureka moment that's a pay off to the the incredible tension but of course she's still trying to find a brother and you don't know what's happened they're always so to say this tension horror aspect because there are horrific moments in the film but they're actually happening relatively seldom it's peer tension so much of the time I suppose just finally and I'm probably being a little bit flippant here I'm sure I'm not the only person I have been trying to avoid seeing too much on the likes of Twitter about this because I was dying and ready to see the film and I don't mind spoilers or anything really but I don't want the experience from my knowing everything that happens and over analyzing it for saying it but I was wondering if the film or certainly you can make the phone fast enough to cut for contraception because it's the children Hey because the breaches in safety just about every time I think firstly at the drugstore they're only there because one of the children as well and that's where the four year olds get sent away see rocket I'm not seen for shadows so much of what else is going to happen in the first encourages the child has with the rocket is knocking off the shelf and a sister C. said it's going to happen I manages to catch it before it crashes to the floor and kills them all and he says four year old child and he's been living in this he's not a silent person but he's being forced to live in a silent world and especially as children it's not natural to be silent because you should be making all kinds of noise and especially if you haven't necessary call that much of the copy that much language yet you're exploring your capacity to make noise quite a lot so it's such an oppressive existence and the child doesn't understand the implications of it everything even though it's explained to an extent but he's just told no we have to be quiet it's two nights but he takes about she's anyone a sister gave him back the toy without the batteries and of course it's only much later on in the film so well after a year later when she has to toy for some reason they seem to have it she seems to have capped it or if it's maybe the aft up the site and it only occurs to them then her father thought that the drug store had caught some tires for her and it's only so much time together that she thanks to snap the cable so that this rocket come make anymore noise so anyway there's not there's a deaf child to come to her own noise and also there's debate by there's an advocacy here for contraception or at least thinking very carefully about what situations are good to have children and it's not even realistic the impact of a jumble of thoughts I respond promptly as always but hopefully there's something there that we can return today because these are recorded fairly raw after seeing the film thanks again for it listen ready place to have you on board and again for all the support it so very much appreciate it and I have been getting some really nice feedback from a few people that they help in finding the stuff I've been making ready you so whether it's a you tube videos for its these podcasts I'm so delighted it makes it really worthwhile please stay keep any feedback coming and I do really want to hear from people and start having more casts gonna trying get more people on check out more invoices happening so that it is just a hundred and I having a chat by phone which is seen every week thanks to listen and take care of the show's catching next time