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Audiovisual Cultures episode 60 – Illuminating the Self with Susan Aldworth and Andrew Carnie automated transcript


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hello and welcome to the official cultures podcast exploring arts and cultural production I'm Paul up there and for this episode I had the great pleasure of talking with artists Susan Aldworth and Andrea Carnegie kindly took the time while installing their work at the heightened gallery in new castle university to share insight and their joint exhibition eliminating the cells exhibited in both the Hutton and fan and commercial union hice in the center of Newcastle upon Tyne their work responds to the new castle university lad county projects which stands for controlling abnormal network dynamics using optogenetics a process of using lights to control cells which are genetically modified to be light sensitive implanted and having tissue specifically brain tissue and people living with certain types of epilepsy to help control seizures county is a collaboration between Newcastle University imperial college London University College London and the Newcastle upon Tyne hospitals NHS foundation trust their website can be fined at C. A. N. Teo dot AC dot U. K. if you'd like more information there is a wide range of materials and processes throughout the GLX ambitions and creating different approaches to a prince making video light and sculptural installations and embroidery the van exhibition is on until the twenty ninth of February and the heightened show finishes on the night of may twenty twenty so plenty of time to get along to the house and if you find yourself in the chain Boeser reading were saying do you enjoy these fascinating discussions with thank you so much for taking a bit of time might have here and still today at the Houghton if it's okay can we talk a bit about your exhibition eliminating the self and everything in full so that's a collaboration with Newcastle University and Andrew Carney as well hi to see animals and I've worked with the university %HESITATION two projects before one about schizophrenia in two thousand and twelve which was shown at the Hackney gallery could resembling the self and another one about sleep we showed at York St Mary's in New York in two thousand seventeen correct the ducks self and this one's called illuminating the self centered you might get done talking about I'm really interested in the relationship between our physical bodies and our brains and our sense of self enough sense of humanized anti I've been commissioned alongside under Connie in two thousand fifteen on another project looking at %HESITATION optogenetics which is a way of trying to get the lights into the brain to sort out various problems of the brain I'm not a scientist in my explanation of the signs you have to go into peace and son to school and doing that project I introduced Andrew to the scientists up here who were working on this project which is cool can do and what they're trying to do here is to find a way for certain focal epilepsies of switching off the epileptic seizure before it happens viasat two phones one is the range implanted a microchip %HESITATION one is by introducing some sort of gene therapy whereby the light sensitive cells reintroduced into the brain and the combination of the implant on these light sensitive cells the scientists to trying to switch off system sales of epilepsy it sounds quite sort of Frankenstein be honest I mean why would anyone want to have their brain interfaced with but the truth is with apple that she it affects one in a hundred people in the country and not hold back Alexis can be treated with drugs or with other sorts of brain surgery and so when I got the commission to make the work it's not illustrating the project it's responding to it it's looking at the ethics human implications and working with the scientists to widen the approach because epilepsy is nothing if somebody separate and that social justice %HESITATION with my way into it I want to find out what it feels like to live with the experience of living with epilepsy and why you might make the decision to have an implant so I've talked to scientists I've talked to clinicians about their patients during the project I've talked to a legal ethicist about the you know who's responsible for the brain and on the ethics of that but will find me up as an artist is talking to the people with epilepsy about their experience of it so that's the way I work as an artist so I decided I needed to find a lot of people with epilepsy to understand I'm one of the things I've found out very early on is that %HESITATION Minneapolis's when not treatable by trucks and then on to school but said jury and this possible cure and it's a very early stages of sun please would relieve some people because you can have hundreds to fix today and you know it's your own body's sort of letting you down it's changing the sense of self and what I've discovered is what is it seems to change your sense of certainty can you imagine waking up every morning not sure if you're going to get that day and if it is a public thing people see fitting so it's stigmatized it's complex I'm not sure because this idea of eliminating the stuff and this is an exhibitionist across two sites so we had the opening in the in the night before recording this even the expiration of the light and art to something that's been going on since day dot really so %HESITATION that marrying up with the science of feasting lights to change things in the brand is really fascinating to and there's a lot of light and the other part of the exhibition I think it's mostly with Andre stuff again my my son of types which are in the exhibition are made with light and sound the type is a photographic process which is you painted light sensitive solution on to paper and you place objects on to the paper and then developed by UV lights I use sunlight to mine so like just being really central to the development of the work and it's interesting having the opportunity to show across two sites so for me it's meant that a plane I could show you will based work which gives you audience a chance to contemplate the ideas in a different way alongside the installation of signage types that %HESITATION three very large portraits of people with epilepsy who came to sit for me and the portraits of a very personal reflection of the relationship between me and the sitter and that relationship with that that season that's what I want to do with those and then the work here relates to light because the light that the scientists used in the brain is blue so there's a lot of blue light and blue light and UV lights are on the same spectrum so if my installation here I contacted the epilepsy society and I found a hundred people who would be happy to write the stories of living with epilepsy and my idea was to get that imploded on to a hundred pieces of Victorian underway but a hundred embroideries and I pulled it off which is amazing underwear because Apalachee stigmatized and hidden conditions so it's like bringing it up to the open all civic touring underwear is very beautiful responds very well to you she liked and lastly I didn't want to have sort of a Victoria's secrets sort of sleazy piece of underwear and I didn't feel it would click the graphic testimony was that I would cheat and also I love Victoria I mean that's something that I find is that a very pleasing unemployed was said with UV sensitive thread and throughout the incident these hundred pieces of Victorian underway hang from the ceiling by police and in between each row awesome UV lights and the whole installation is going to move in the algorithm of an eclectic brain and then what happens with epilepsies normally in your brain that is firing a fair bit far off last week on a random program so that the clothes go up here and they go up that considering twenty rows of five down this huge gallery and then slowly the clothes will become synchronized which is what happens before people have a seizure everything your brain gets stuck a bit like soldiers walking over a bridge everything gets inspecting your brain and that's when the seizure happened so we're going to get the closing to get into this synchronicity and then it will stop I had wanted to close to fall to the floor but I thought that was a bit lecturing and so we'll just shut off the light switches that another way of stopping something it's a very ambitious please the curator working with Lucy Jenkins and the install is that they've never tasted anything so complicated put my head in my hands I should live but it's a good idea and it has to be C. enemy of making it work which is great yes it's better to have a go at something like that how to race absolutely and also I feel hugely responsible in carrying the hundred people stories and a hundred artists sewing because I mean I've had a hundred people from all over the country so informing creating thirty five people from the rolls would need to %HESITATION so I feel a huge artistic responsibility to those two hundred people who have given of themselves for this work about yeah it's really a collaborative fifty very attractive hello sign on top of that I've had this wonderful young guy could well that can suit has been my three D. designer who has built the frame and made to police it looks like Victorian theater to go with the clothes and he's dedicated months of his life to it and he's you know a young club the guy and then also on Bannon has done the algorithms for the computer and the motives you know because I can come up with these very conceptual ideas but I come to the hold of myself I suppose that it's important to have that visualization of just a snapshot of how many people the only thing I know there's a history enough ways of having studios with lots of people working for you and maybe it's to do with the feminization about that I'm happy to make my collaborative you know I don't need different think I've done everything I think it's important to name people who work really hard to put in a forty yes I know Texas well that's an incredible color today it's an incredible shift today that has been produced I was really staring at them last night because I just wanted to dive into the deep space today yeah the blue the summertime blues it was very interesting to do a lot of time experimenting on different paper services because you know it's a chemical process but it is very sensitive to pay to service and to how much some areas and I decided I didn't want to work in the U. V. books because what was lovely about working sunshine is that you get long shadows and it changes the images because if you can imagine the process is putting objects on the piece of paper in UV lights if the sun is casting long shadows in one direction you get a very you know if you look at mid day you go to for a different picture than you do if you work at four o'clock in the afternoon and having the freedom to play with the lights like that and July and August down in London where I was working we had a lot of sunshine I just couldn't finish before the bad weather K. at the time that and the blue in the end I ended up experimenting with heavy papers white papers and I found this Japanese paper quotas of washi which is only twenty eight grams it feels like %HESITATION rice paper %HESITATION just flipped off which is why can frame them and it produced both very sharp images and it always hit that beautiful blonde and I made my own chemicals up for these these sanitized solution because I wanted to be in control of everything at every level I like learning new techniques citing isn't half basket but more about that idea of portraiture because this three really large portraits in the end they're not just one panel so they're fragmented and yet clearly together in each case so those were originally in the national portrait gallery is that right a few years ago I suppose just getting at that idea of probing about mark the south and portraiture and tied to convey that a person is more than just a surface yeah you know there's all this other craziness going on and coming I do for them and it's fragmenting them and yet they're one person still I know those things are black and white so what was the process for making those yeah I mean you're quite right about the fragmentation of of a person I had to sit just came to me for three about three days we had long sessions talking and I was drawing and photographing them and they are innocent strictly portraits of them from those three days and maybe the fragmentation is a bit of me saying as an artist I'm not trying to capture the person okay I I recognize that we all you know that sort of philosophical thing we only exist in the moment we don't exist in the future and the past is just a memory so I was very keen on those portraits to be about the conversations I've had with them and so the moment tights with something %HESITATION shoot clay which means that I could print some photographic elements onto a used engine copy paper which I then put through the press with the other marks and the impacts so from the papers so it looks like she collects this means Chinese collage really and so it's a very interesting process for me when I'm trying to pull together the fragments of the person so I had that E. G. switches to sort of bring standing used to sort out that let's see the first picture Max he was writing a book on the magnet culture when I talk to him and he's a very very thoughtful spiritual person and I think the photograph that I took him I felt captured something very particular wonderful about him because he was working on the Magna Carta EEGs they they they mention to Latin script from the Magna Carta and the very heraldic I used my own brain scans to create a sort of her rounded shape around him because I wanted to as for the philosophical point it's my interpretation of him it's not him and so that was Max the next one along is feeling that she's going to have the ability just so they could absences which triggered by light can you describe to me how she you know so much I can hit to facing from maybe any two three seconds she just goes in and comes back and people don't necessarily notice but it is a form of epilepsy absolutely especially nailed his record to put him out of small seizure and she was very at that point in her life I'm willing to talk to people about her epilepsy and particularly she never wanted to note that her boyfriend snowed because she felt so I put her face hidden behind a home should be in her because I felt that she for the portrayed and he wants to show a very small part of himself and the Federal Trade whose Elizabeth she at that point in her life is definitely she's newly married and desperate to have children but she knew that the medication she was on her epilepsy she couldn't take when she was pregnant that would damage the fetus so I put her face in her womb infections going on to have to fight because children and she's having a great life but all of them describe to me at that moment in time their experience of living with epilepsy and the way in which it impacted on their lives that's where I feel is not to say to me what what can artists do by exploring epilepsy dot com cute people I come change the world but you might go to change you want them to change if you could bring things up at the end of the discussion you could make someone think about we hold something so it's a way of exploring the self and in this case it's a self that that she and that's why the portraits of fragmented because I think we all such complicated being I thank the lord the previous record dark stuff is very interested to read about that because that extra sleep more and it seems that there's a very clear relationship between what the brand does when it's very busy it when somebody's having a seizure and they may be on the conscious self and the brain when any of us states were not our conscious self and it's very busy and stuff going on in there a server every ship there for you as well it's all part of the this is a total exploration of the self that I do sleep I found particularly fascinating because everybody does it and I think the exhibition I did down in New York related to a lot of people I mean you know we always ask did you sleep well I mean I'm fascinated by the fact that I was surprised when I sleep I mean I got burgled when I was asleep and nothing happened except a listings but much of being a bad habit to sleep up trees and all mammals sleep and I think it's a very interesting part of being human I think it's a very important part of being an animal and I think it makes us think about what the brain is you know nobody quite knows why we sleep nobody knows exactly what goes on in this in sleep but what they do notice it without sleep we would die and without good sleep it impacts on mental health and well being so it was a fantastic subject and then very hard to explore visually because sleep is a dark nothingness and so I tried to find multiples in the end I fixed on the pillow case because it seems to me the intent that you leave in the pillow when you wake up is what sleep is this is a visualization of sleep so I printed off the lines of what trump black paper because I thought that then I could work against sleep and I made some sculptures which were the intensive had some pillows then I got people to embroider the dreams of the cases and hung them as well which is where my interest in community embroidery came from really and it seems that there's a relationship that as well between the fabric and suspects up being about one time occupied by ability again docu patients on their gap since of a body and maybe there's something there but what's going on with the brand the body's paradise so with this absence anyway and yeah this beautiful street and the %HESITATION the pillowcases that I use the excavation work X. hotel pillowcases so they would have had a history of the and then I feel the same with the underwear this another reason I want to use Victorian underwear because it's all the more it has a history before we come to it with these new stories I was so kindly but she donated to the underwear by a young woman who runs it been to shop in Hastings cooled that Jake McLean from hawk and dove and when we came to wash the clothes I've found that some of them had one person's name in them and they started officers of the very slim young woman and they ended up with a really cool the woman and the idea that I have on top of everything else that goes to the exhibition I have a personal history of someone's underwear off and removing it has a new life it has a new life yeah a new narrative but the old narrative is invented in a minute but the shape of the size of the player I'm putting the DNA %HESITATION is it okay to ask you about the transience change yeah I apologize I don't know very much but I was reading yesterday by the city of the brain tissue E. and I haven't seen any of the work so it's like it's okay I know that the chances were kids something that I'm incredibly proud of what happened was was what I was doing the national portrait gallery shows invited to go to Hammersmith hospitals Parkinson's brain bank two what should bring dissection and being an artist is open lots of doors for you and so when I first got that they got the brain out they were going to die said I don't know if you know the artist Helen Chadwick he was a wonderful conceptualized as to sergeant died too young and she did this fantastic so portrayed which was just a pair of hands holding a human brain and of course you can never help you and brain but it said everything I was trying to do so when I was in the lab I said could someone take a photograph of me holding the brain so cotton on to have a child with unless I was holding the brain I couldn't believe what it felt like it was cold it was locked and I suddenly it seemed to turn from object to subject in my hands because I was holding everything that person of being in this book not everything is subject to the physical body and I got very sort of moved by what you can do that to section off to that and it's a very formal procedure and they lay everything out very beautiful very very visually artistically laid out on the system through my head and I was in the middle of the portrait project the national portrait gallery so I was thinking wouldn't it be that you know the ultimate portrait would be to make a print from human brain and then I just thought he was gonna let me do that so I spoke to the professor afterwards and I said look I've just had this really strange idea can we talk about it and he was very open minded he said I think it would be exploitative to do that I think it might be a very interesting thing philosophically and also I think it could help people understand the relationship with the self to their brains and maybe more people would donate their brains to science featured help other people so he said I'll have to put it through the ethics committee at the hospital so we made the case rate and they said yes so you sometimes have to be careful what you wish for because having someone to do it I have to find out technically how it was conducted and the deal was that I could have some brain slices just for one day two days and there is a very short amount of time and that he would have to be with me at all times first of all I went down to Smithfield market in London and got some land springs she explains I could experiment with those and we got some interesting marks of them but the difference was that the human brain I don't see being informal behind and it was fixed if you like because of a brain is a very gelatinous so to speak to mon G. things in real life seventy six percent for that and then the professor and I drove down from London to Bexhill was working with most printing money Locksley and we knew we were going to do we were going to make catching something kept in place we were going to shake a hand shaking up the chain around the brain slice to make a very dark background but we had no idea what monk's we would get and we filled the full Monty Hyde would be fatty and in it she you need something fatty to resist the acid so we place a slice of the plate we should separate into round it to the brain slice off and we actually played some legal these remarkable images that looks like consciousness at work they're really beautiful and the some of the website was proud of when I found out later on that day not dated when she done the same thing with the human heart printed directly from it so I felt very selective with overseeing excellent company and the the actions of beautiful ocean room in London level session at the fitzwilliam museum in Cambridge to me the very significant works both in terms of the process of and the serendipity I had no idea we were going to get such beautiful marks from them and also to me the contact to the brain with the plate was huge statement of what the self with only got terribly emotional making the work not to ship a tear at some point because will you and we were working with commission with someone's brain with innocence again of a Frankenstein but it was done without the respect and thoughtfulness sadly I I was never allowed to move who it was because of patient confidentiality and that's quite right but I would love to somehow say thank you to the left side motion but if the thing anyway so that's the transient section it's not the whole plan for eliminating the south as well to try and communicate this is what people are going okay yeah I mean the story is all other people's stories because they tell the stories better than I could have it as an artist we're trying to use movement to suggest the patents in the brain that go on I want to create a slight the Regis is the wrong I went to a very it's a very big space the patent that I'm showing in its cavernous it's slightly cathedral like in a sense so I want to create a sense of awe and wonder hopefully between the sort of Victorian theatrical experience when the machinery moves and things so it's going to be performative the work will be on all the time it will come again I've also made a note to spokes of the people Ellen is being put on election in the gallery again keeping the sort of sensible to the people can read the full testimonies that people have written because they are employed it but because of the moving you might not have the time also in a few weeks time I'm making a PDF of the book so that if people want to read it they can I can send it to them because of the artist book to beautiful thing but it's an expensive thing and I want these testament is to have a life I said fingers crossed it'll work for third thing tomorrow night yeah okay to get back to making it making sure that we do that thank you for taking the time to talk to me thank you so much for your time the phone has been lovely to me thank you so much for interrupting your install for me so much time looking yeah and then %HESITATION seconds I hope and this is a health and safety issues I'm done with school and working on this one sense of the I need to replace because of %HESITATION gonna really for some reason %HESITATION but that's it so the videos out the since quite fitting in a way if something goes awry I have always done I mean in any exhibition is always kind of changes I mean that some of them happy changes suddenly yeah originally I went to the screen for the back okay it creates a space behind and suddenly another works I was thinking of showing fifty better and so something behind there in a couple more isolated in space and I really like that so in the mistakes in the errors in the accidents and things not working new things come about that's the really good thing about civil again with this case I was a bit worried about one of the lights the force me to get a second controller for it and it works better than it did before taking up different kinds of signals those who left kind of things happen in exhibitions new stuff arising is it okay if we describe what we're saying yeah yeah yeah so %HESITATION in front of us at the moment we've got this long screen so you've got these layers of matches said his voice yes this is my normal net curtain that trickle curtain Houston projecting threats as a kind of twelve minutes a long project so using four channels of video play %HESITATION about twenty nine minutes plays very slowly because these transformations and the boy will just give you this kind of feeling of death when spoken of strangeness puts you in a limbo kind of specs which I really like going to school at the minute this call may be monitored for the mother so it's mainly black and white yeah absolutely because at certain points okay that's one of the works who works on census except for this work this work stays on continuously right the blues blues affecting billions with drawings on that trigger to every so often will come on and on that similar one cities and at the end yeah of course I'll go invading in the other parts of the show up go simple blues in office because the slightly different he said whether they will miss our logical building yes these ones are about twice or three four times as big as the ones that I just don't have to work on the bigger ones the huge ones it was a sixteen or twenty feet in diameter but that's another story yeah the rules hand drawn on six even with some friends doing it my wife kindly doing quite a lot it's taken a lot of time and with the big ones you find all doing really well it all happened in any of this with the tool it's a letter to the flames so that's the point of interesting process entities not ready Brandless is it but it says it's kind of it's kind of and your own mapping and and images of neurons and there's this thing that when they inflate they should consult a different images then when the flat one point like is the quiet moments like tennis when they're blowing up in them and the fans go off the stop deflecting the some kind of silence which already like are they that by E. V. like Sir this is gorgeous to %HESITATION LEDs and okay the the state just got issues that are very similar yeah absolutely this looks like yeah black lights the lights on working with them that's fine this one piece the scope please answer that said that it's on the corner of the time's going to they'll settle down and then they would come on all of the senses have come hibernate cycle so they want instantly come back on you have to wait for a full five minutes want to people's concentration to changes in the exhibition focusing on one piece of the big video and then like this the treaties of the a festival now and so that's how slow the remote one small step of work to do on the TV moving around signet stock it results in a call to work out why can't stop so this one is again it's just an online memory fills up with the shadows much lower and you've got a really beautiful symmetry with the shape of the twigs coming out of the tree and cities Nero yes yeah this kind of relationship between content to take full inside the house and the denture to perform it in trees and these are not just the trees of the circle the roots on as well so that kind of problems with the life cycle services in that kind of world events I also go over and then okay yeah the new runs on the balloons and then there's a kind of neural part of the system yet this is a real seven news basically I have got used to the titles of once you this one's called a binder the card okay you can see these Texas is a little your boss was another you'll refer to the optogenetics the work was being done by talented but in this one the secrets of the options with the will of the detecting cost out the blue lights so that that room this one is coming along it's more like a kind of crisis in the body right very small contributions from geico messed up systems in the yeah so there's lots of things that were coming about lots of it's being billed as a kind of taking over the research and the work of repair the time and then things speeding up if you look at that on this trip exactly what creates a suddenly this bright charismatic piece that happens that means kind of driven us away it's going to be the one what's the way the if you're in the main kind of part of the government so it's because this is a better product Hey yes the food was on hand for you should we treat piece from the hexagonal qofka window and then if something comes up in this one other piece that's kind of not playing pool at the minute which is a place of peace transaction declined by the CIA well I've just got a new controller so hopefully something they're going to plug it in and it's all going to work it's just the power unit for some reason it's not picking up the signal from the water is controlled by the end of today it should be working so this is basically a very large media on this for all the fixes yeah and this kind of case pieces while watching the street was like sign truck that you might have heard is in here %HESITATION that comes out every so often and that's on the sensor but also when that place that's the fun that comes on the news the oil and it's kind of very interesting aspects of the laces when they're open because that needs to be a kind of a line at certain points during the exhibition problem with it at the minute is that is the latest in common frequently enough until long enough kind of an issue and so if you look around at different points of triggers should set off we'll be in this mess but this one stands on the top it is triggered by the side of the car percent it also plays more vigorously when the silent the weather in San comes from down that this call is heavy on banks and then they kind of backed down the ladder on the way are the colors %HESITATION significance they ought to be in a sense I mean the blue always leads to the October is gonna five blue lights to signal to the cells to flatten the epileptic attack to the blues significant amounts of Blue Ribbon Primerica and then in this one it was just this kind of sense of using points as a kind of normal situation standard situation situation and the red as a kind of crisis and it's kind of typical color code Michigan city not since it was just one yes and it went from red to green wait a minute I'm going to cover that sense of the value of it it shows it's all within the same so that someone come and see you at the other end come on this one is this hopefully so some of the experiences in life and in the city center for the night the whole upper part of what's up all space with them on some of the ones in my vision of it meant to be more central kind of blocks out the video so we had to move it back did you see it's not something very long should be on for a lot longer that's what I hope to just sort out this afternoon I'm sure LaFace maze by tomorrow night well it's but it'll be worth it if there's enough officials are not happening without necessarily working completely yeah it's a bit like a few of the small programmable fans working properly but this fifty four all together for the moment working that's a lot to look at and beyond the limits of my technical ability being away from home to school now I need to work out the switching mechanism but that would be great would you like to listen on how you got involved with candy in terms of how I got involved account too I mean it's been a long process and it involves an individual %HESITATION nine concentric Stevenson who I suppose it's a little bit of a patron of the office of men across the page and in a sense to me I mean he's helped with a couple of projects I've been doing paying for me making work his ex's assist who runs a kind of a venture capital for startup companies ninety was involved in material testing so the big companies make money which is down in part reinvests in science but also helps artists to make work he done one projects approached him about doing another project with him with Susan and he said well I'm really interested in optogenetics and we went to a few talks and things and Susan spoke up and said well I think the team in new castle who I know very well I think that they use oxygen at six as a process in trying to do something and so we start with that and that was about five six years ago now and we came up and Susan and I made a series of joint prints that are on show by it's a kind of introduction and that was the beginning of it so we did that and then we so well we can also do that maybe we should apply for big public engagement money the sciences were very keen on it because I wanted to talk to the epilepsy community about that work and this is to be an opportunity to welcome was very keen on it so that you can use a very reasonable grounds to make work for over three years yeah so we've done about two years research for me about a year of making this work most time making the video and then the sculptures of components of it since then what's been good I think I've made ten works together maybe slightly more eleven works and they're all substantial I used to making things quite quickly go back to processes of making video and I was getting a little bit of help him on that when I used to do all the door and I handed the videos and live for the trees and everything and now I've got some people that will help me with that that makes it a lot easier in the last piece I made a large video projection like this was about the rights in meetings or X. two three days a week the door explorer so I was amazed by some editing and I was exhausted this one bicycle which works on three months and then we started to and it's a projection together it's a blend of drawings and photographs of myself in a kennel listings come into it I've kind of seen and experienced one of the things I'm kind of interested in those you know this notion of the trees where I live around Winchester called lots of them have missiles and the missiles I seem to me to be like a hundred points of epilepsy in the brain with this model of self selected quotes photographs of the supplier and they became incorporated and I quite like this idea of improving the missile type but in an impossible act maybe and that's where the up today text comes in really this operation on the implementation of the alternate into the brain will come when they call surgically remove that sentiment do something it's a kind of points of law school it's the last thing they can do that's what I hope so I think that's kind of interesting so deals with different issues of putting things into being watched as well with the sense of the op try being in that room the logarithm that's produced by people that are outside the body to you being controlled by the way I know we roll control in a way by other people but this very particular thing about one's body which has ownership and so the fat and the U. S. B. five piece of vein is very much about right it's got lots of quotes about being a cycle brings this kind of multiple person with a device inside it's being controlled and I often want to connect the real source of considerations legalities about all sorts of questions now arise about where we move in %HESITATION lines interesting question think of the big companies want us to own the impossibly helping us and not in a sense hold responsibility if they go wrong and that's a really interesting six of eight the not very clear about who it is that you think you owe them but I actually feel it's quite good that they own them that responsible thing go wrong and they have to put them right some interesting topics yes brings up a lot of ethical issues so I think the pieces vein or the one piece of the ads a tale of two is the piece that kind of not just those questions is not a simple story yes pros and cons of all of these things need to be well I mean the other big project I've been involved in for ten years it's been about heart transplants and that's really interesting because the psychological issues of having somebody else's hall all remains a very complicated for people people have contraceptives holding that in mind and the troubles of the times we have to talk about that and that's partly because with heart transplant when the patients come back to the hospital the very thankful for being alive they're very ready to scrub the complexities of the issues that they have for that and the team in the hot project sets out to interview the patient's personal spot in their own home and then you get a different story about a much more complex relationship in that case because it's a hot that's come from somebody else complex relationship with the donor and the donor's family I mean this is more complicated as well because %HESITATION option Essex County project will be putting in a locked into the price but it also has to affect genetically the cells near where the object is to make it work so they have to be basically primed to be affected by the blue light that the option will give out when it senses an epileptic attack coming and happening to suppress the cells that has to be introduced and so this genetic modification of human beings and that's put in by viral plexus people might be upset about that the virus has to be put into the body to deliver those options which of controlling settles into the right place so yeah very complex very interesting I think about who we are how we see ourselves through science you know and I think it affects all the think it helps is kind of on the stand %HESITATION cells by seeing what happens in the science and maybe a particular group or class of people because of patients can tell us less about who we are so I kind of understand the motives of and the different pathways and autistic Braden tells us what about what normally is cool what school the gradients to be known Johnson this is very interesting to discuss an introduction to pieces it's gonna actually working so if you see the blue lights and yeah the flash will come along with the sound levels go up please it's working because yesterday it was a complete asshole as you see that with the two lights sensors Watson and so it says Wilson from close to the lights around campus and see this one just a little bit from the other side yes so yes it's a nice invitation because you would not a medically thank that you can come around here could it feels about what because the signal is a tricky thing or something else yes this idea of something being a nurse just tidying up we've got to clear one on one assistance but yes seventies just small ponds fitted with LEDs that already the %HESITATION preponderance in that you could just buy a really but some of them I've also because yeah some of the program you can put words on them %HESITATION yes the case case blue jeans go this is a state I thought she should be more visible and that's one of the tweet controls are going to do is just west of the city okay just been fixing the subject of a number of this one which is not playing well the census compiled parts one and so is the idea that the oil will draw lines in this Sunday's are swimming media sensing the finance it's been slightly problematic in terms of health and safety of the lasers because lasers in my studio came down a lot lower now they have to be hopper because we don't want anybody looking into that directly there's all these things thanks in advance do you have an overall Air America for the exhibition is that of a communicating to the general population about it this is what it might be like for people with epilepsy or anything like that gentleman that perhaps it's small like you know the phone wants anything to be discussed it's about what the sciences it's about being kosher in the sense about what it gives us but it is telling us very much at the moment about who we are and how we are in the world and I think that we need a kind of critical forum for discussing that and I think this is a point to begin to think about that to have the discussion and I don't think that the exhibition is the totality of the asylum I think this consent provisions the workshops to schools things have been going on all of the other kinds of things are as important in fact in the hall project what remains of it that is these comes three day symposium where we get professionals and I would begin to unpack some of the issues and some of the issues then or even the weather so we've had specialist auctions prognosis saying oh I've got to change my approach I I haven't thought about this tool so we kind of seating ideas about things and and it's an option for me I'm an artist I'm not an illustrator what I'm saying that parents of love illustration and it's very good I'm not saying that illustration is pool robot you know it's part of it but it's more than that that's about to compensation and I think that's what artists do they have a call they could use a platform where things can be discussed in a wider more complex way and also just to signal things I mean I think that part of my job is to signal to the people of the young artists this is what you can do these are the possibilities you can use a commercial fan and you can make a piece of work about that thank you it's permissible to do that you know I started with this page and I still think on the payments by musing lights and there are other ways of achieving things and did not said this old well sort of levels I think which are work complex aspirin okay no good thank you so much for your time the phone you've been listening to audio visual cultures with very special guests seasonal Doris and Andrea Carney many thanks to the hot gallery for accommodating us as well this episode was hosted recorded edited and produced by polo player the music is coming grinds by our tone licensed under creative Commons noncommercial three point zero license and can be downloaded for MCC mixer dot org many thanks to membership Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your much appreciated support one of two nations to help keep this going are gratefully received as well at PayPal dot me forward slash PP a prior episodes are released every other Wednesday subscribe in your podcast app so you never miss an episode our fill back catalogue can also be finding you cheap if you date her on Instagram as safety cultures parts person please AP cultures on Facebook and Twitter if you'd like more information and useful links thanks so much for nesting and catching next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 55 – Escape Sequence with Dr Robin Price and Catherine Hemelryk automated transcript


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hello and welcome to the body of facial co chairs the podcast explores the weird and wonderful areas of cultural production I'm pulled up there and I'm really thrilled to be joined in the sedation by artist robin price and gallery director Catherine Hamel Reich at the center for contemporary art Derry Londonderry to talk about it robin show escape sequence exhibited from the twenty sixth of October J. the twenty first of December twenty nineteen a massive thank you to our members at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your continued support we could really use a lot more to pay for podcast so saying and be able to offer something tear gassed her always so generous with their time and expertise do you listen to the end for further ways to support our work and how to get in touch for now I enjoy this chat with Catherine and robin Hey my name's Katherine how are you and I am the director of the center for contemporary arts Terry Johnson eight right now they seem to like the lecture here CCA we have exhibitions public programs the decent publishing makes decisions we do all sorts of things we went with us is from Northern Ireland and sensational peas we've taking have fakes on sporting matching practice they do that by really trusting us essentially saying ideas that could happen much with them to make them happen that takes center open Roman would you like to introduce yourself red robin on with this class is based in Belfast you should see it on your show as escape sequence yeah that's a coding term business right this is an escape sequence a sequence of characters that come represent themselves directly sometimes you want to use your use special characters so you have to put in more special characters tell compiled to ignore one thing and do another thing that it related to my practices lotus caves in in the workers in the show so comes from a desire to sort of escape reality to some degree stuff work except that and Martin says well that's not something you're trying to support here Catherine at CCA how do you feel very emerging emergence I suppose you could be an issue for nineteen for the I think this is not something I and we really consider fine get hung up on you making work and you've got opportunities just keep playing the game of transit at the make things contingent on are they getting funding location friend think what can I do for a horticulture and then if something does come of it how can I scale it I think all the time you just making work you winning it's an unusual stuff focus too much on the outcome and make it about an outcome I want to make it work for us not and that's really a productive this could happen in the document in order to have a good bench to contents in some cases you should put that make up our phones been a participant or need to have these things ready for something to come out of it it's more conventional keep making work zones one way fifteen whatever scale you get from the machine to simple sending it to you without programs he is B. exhibitions program take care thanks bye Dietz of questions and it's a cumulative experience say each show is looking at different aspects of the sets of ideas of questions and China have different rhythms going through thick projects as well say combination of sedation ETS increase chases different scales and to create something that people he'd come to us regularly they can see each shape can have this kind of experience the gap is saves that season but at the same time each day is completely unique and it's a complete thing in its own right say this year we'll see how much incessant CD eight in the second thing was time will tell us that each of the exhibitions for me to return he began with the idea of how the passage of time is taking effect for evidence of ways he spend time we've had two shows already in the season and I invited robin office seeing his left the state and some thinking about recreation and escape and ends that was the starting point and then it's become this completes type units and it's I kind of said they showed up in seconds the last five years that is really nice to be able to bring it together and %HESITATION states he has something new which is %HESITATION drawing on the walls project with my siblings and exciting showing on the side of the country the kids getting that many have his money kids taking pictures themselves thanks for the call you said you got us really been reposted from business let friends hit the building okay so it's it's a very pale it's painted pale whites and creams say it was just a scan for it they're our neighbors up says with very kinds and lets us board up the windows that we could just ten our society into a blank canvas for speed pretty great yeah yeah there's an element and I guess it's you're turning on the head the idea of public arts a little bit could be handing it over to the public a little bit and it's very visible from the Derry walls safe and did they give you a bit of a community feel when you get past people passing and I suppose it you must be capturing terrorists and so this time of the year with their Halloween festival coming futurists yes the Spanish yes Sir can from where I live kinda on the side the it's you know so it's M. may see it's being families with the kids during the during a yeah sort of some of them helping it's been a really nice mix I think this is being process the awakening the walls events that take place in the three nights ETFs Harleen kids during Halloween is just enormous fifteen thousands of people coming to the city this week yeah we've had to queue pretty much the whole time but and people have been just watching what everyone before them is jeans SMCP keep migrants like somebody took the opportunity to tell that girlfriend they left them and everybody you for well tonight through his girlfriends and stuff on the net are you love them if you forget how to spell their names you have to read press hard on the eyes but some people seem to have the next commission posh out really quick on this is this year so it's funny that getting the right shin on the fact that we using yeah but if the knights of drawings and we have lots of highly anything say pumpkins and gays yeah some sixties yes really nice girls actually and it's sort of like he this unical yeah very good go to the referral and yes it's being them and some people just making shapes which would be some of my favorites such U. S. kind of the %HESITATION taking along for a look that that line is laser on a building and it's huge while to come back said the idea of time passing time is continually passing and %HESITATION hi we spend %HESITATION passing time and just to get into what's actually in the exhibition as well it's not just human time being passed it's a long time it's been passer in Durham you were made for the exhibition the school feeling about the state and the cat ready for a number he's got a residence in Amsterdam with %HESITATION I was basically cat sitting for %HESITATION not sent to the and he's carried into a place plan because they were estimated completeness and it's been itching at this instant bills some kind of automated please play insulation please and what was your help support can't raise put this to rest together in your head you come back down from the start I have to find a way of making this physical and ethical and yes about three months ago the state unable to skate it unfolds you can fit in your car you can carry around city tickets contest that it states on account right second one so I was taking around Belfast two a number of different places have cats and just put me on the street enjoyed it plays cat music because we can hear in the background %HESITATION by composer David tie in to it with and %HESITATION behaviorists to work out what frequencies cats find relaxing and then into specified place nineties right James already like what it plays back the videos of the cat raves the phone is of mixed today use using the same techniques I would've done VS garrison visuals in March of this kind of time together a number of different strands of my credit card to send my love of cats it's call laces in the topics that sort of message content kits for cameras and you can you can control the fire nor the maybe it's just that simple right about yeah so the best can't raise any gallery to ping pong table which is four thousand entities on the first of all the companies with senses that triangulate where the ball hit save that came out was to make sure escrita speech Johnson that thing from table to coach nine years ago the seven at the at the cultural integration where that data is going to lead us to %HESITATION indispensable instructs it pretty often that was yeah that's the kind of work I really like the gigantic inflatable confused ahead for the public just double down on his brilliant and Jim Wright said his many head injuries is is from the a copy of the the local one his his predates the office he did the fitness center they have a certain side by side yes that's the first one but we were on the big ones it's been a big one say you think okay okay and I was looking to get it's scaled down I did like the first versions fifteen entities in test cricket in fact I got my first thoughts comes around to second one just slightly upgraded and upgraded to nursing it folds up runs around if you switch on switch messages to be they got a three foot work from which festival which was sent from two into the regulation should have with the slight risk people McCarron trying to see themselves reflected back to what they want to do with their action in insulation for work I have a sense works this one rule standing very still sat very still it says traces of American saying that if you the closer you see yourself in this narcissistic seriously making these pathways and the other one is yeah yes Makedonski right that sounds or because it says seven of the last five years with coding and this I think got returned carry free a lot of the code he's been reused says of his most of retracing the motion of waves on motions of in plane catches in the way that worked in different systems and ending up spending time studying this kitchen is replacing them in the street for pricing back into the work say in that run through this one yeah it's great the support kid friendly the Terrigen adults to think is the way one of the ways that surround themselves to play with each other and see if the grass might need to move toward one state is trying to create an atmosphere should be one of the nice things about doing a project outside models and really read playful yeah with it was reviewed some of the tax thirty well with the cats and there's something about eight actually trying to bring up your case and bringing about the end of the day yeah the gold okay and the idea was always to build structures that have cameras built into it automatically apply you can't related content the internet with them yes by the end of the status of Christmas cat related feedback loop people that live networks and services and %HESITATION just get back to the nineties state media you take care of it happened in the seven X. yes Sir it's been tends to be booked for the SPCA in Dublin even next year the big cat shelters biggest cash up front and it is open to the public and we're gonna put the put the sculpture in that for the kittens on the live stream it with our help and find that yeah I don't remember and if it's not yeah that's the problem yeah it's a fascinating area I'm just thinking of by and hi you know our mobile phones are just so much a part of us with the coming inside works because they're just part of who we are nice and everything seems so easy on them but of course there's this behind the scenes really complicated network of lots of different colors and stuff and information and junk as well E. Duncan things I mean do you think your show rains up to life events as the license or I mean this is this looks in it I think there's always a tension I mean how much to reveal yeah of the technology success I will waive he is also upset where formula because if you just run a magic %HESITATION C. wants to hide the ball was in the senses and just make it with and it didn't it didn't require the latest code intervention I think now mmhm for B. as interested in in presenting the technologies of examining heresies but in reality that in the show I think there's a lot of currency in doing that I'm just still happy in this particular case of playing with the idea but it it runs on much of the I think yeah I would the police report if I did that was the technology is very much on display there's no point hiding under his desk popular it's the other way of talking and saying okay support during the war what size for a table for the second one is that it just runs out on the latest stuff so if you get on TV which is cable city yeah I guess yes is is that looking hold on yeah do you want to see send anything about your previous work things demethylation market was C. matching air pollution it took a few projects which was an activation %HESITATION experiment so please so I had a at the July payment to those hooked up to a condition census eight not again a few and printed it was later spent any dis laughter yoga I've done a residency right in your own city I projects around occasional didn't know what form it would take originally was going to be so so around sound and sort of mapping because there was the medium for the pollution and for the sounds of recording in different spaces Dr academic I couldn't in the end fine cut on your staff to collaborate with scientists and it is a way of making a photographic places worth having super quick how come you should plan to them but the community art projects working with this flight package with kids where they were during the late the image and sit and slide into place the image back line by line the TEKLYNX version you get the kids to walk very slowly with a lot pension fund investment rules what they've added drawn into the space and you see the average potentially appear in the finder on the back of the camera man that happens like a magic trick and they will get ready sauce for me like it before we get the same effects with the scientists in the snow already gets light painting loans version photography into this to see it coming in front of them and luckily yeah that works when tried at first time in Delhi the ministers of recruit enough permit scientists to make the project with Wallace is by the way it's going to take the images and I was able to repeat it in Mexico and Nairobi and Uganda and I'm just just about to go off to Ethiopia and of next month can do more with it that works is if the artist conceptions making it look as if they had been put under a microscope and it's up to it draws in more points of lights represent possible speculation the end of this fiscal record with images that you can surf contest is both looking at me to see the different professionals and that was very successful in its coverage I think it the perpetrators as more information just across the river at flood doing things like three D. ease criticism to level project the analyst and does the job and can devote callous coming up and then something else space indispensable how great which is great the terrifying school St Catherine height it's your cats one he really enjoyed that he was critical for a bit and kind of slow playing like he was just checking it out and then yeah he was often off on the top of it try to look into one of the holes in it since it's in Louisa pouncing nice say again I definitely definitely had a good time we would not say if he did not like the answer that I left the room yes that would mean disdain and he would have checked to see that his distinguished register he's one of those cats right or office even though it's on excellent yeah he really enjoyed it it's cute but they're small screens than as a third baseman what's %HESITATION my cat really likes watching cat TV sucks this whole channels with content of counts before can't choose thirty go teach you a new search videos the number one auto complete suggestion is for half price as to not all of us were cats the H. how long concerts or squirrels or mice one that laptop TV sleeve for the cat to work says whole area of the internet and not colonized by cats before for transmitting with that that music plays the music for cats is playing and my cat when he was in seven to the videos surface and that he was really listening to the music you could see him cheating in thinking about city thank you reply him some noise he's had it once before on the radio and he was just kind of %HESITATION dedicated to he did he got tackled project office click here on his lost a second race one week when they're playing music for cats yeah not no that was the thing that's my cascade to thing about no se company Reuters company just came popped aside right yeah that perhaps shouldn't shipments nothing less %HESITATION that very much of her choice this mission for Merion hopes just respond yeah the password tweet we're instilling it was intensive it's still set up this will be fun axles so Catherine I mean it's a few days and hi eighty feet it's going less agents coming into the gallery so far I mean the lesser than some basic I'm really popular but one of the issue itself inside I read he expected the show to be a popular one and he sits right hands they're all interesting looking things you can interact with yes that is how it's being with head to lazy people three does we've been acting like because of the weakening the world's projects we just had hundreds of people each night the ping pong table has been picking up pretty much yes it's been hit pretty constant he's also we've had two kids and say yesterday we had three dots and he would just bought their own Huff ten holidays and just played for a long time and %HESITATION say was taking up the yeah the outside this kind of love that we get people wouldn't have to complete examination pattern yeah it's really good and art can be fun yeah yeah there's a profound unity with one of the things the show and recreational on there hi to trouble and well %HESITATION drug yeah we've had unsurprisingly the facts that cats are not high stakes it's being severity nice points on on the Seychelles and people pasting fatalities it's been really really good fun and so the mobile disco as anybody fighting with this nice to personally article about one goal at the eight nine always takes time I'm a fan of the six back to they haven't expressed a command to account right thanks bye we would to be to Catherine's we could do special dates at the end so I'm sort of thinking I think it takes a while so as to get that something yeah I think this sort of thing where you could easily say something I can't go well that's always a nonsense word replacement glass yeah yeah you couldn't get in people's heads from the concept of account right that's not for humans to our technicians do is take a reading side to just buy a tear of it was so cute to maintain pace to forex the flat only online yeah that was gorgeous yeah this debate seven or something all we know there is interest we know from the cat ages but yeah we'll see how it carries we can maybe have some business yeah either of you from the bottom right desktop friends this morning because posted yeah it's just to show people that this is the thing that's yes Tony rail it is very reps for your car close yeah no it's it's all sort of thing it's like this is the best idea humanity's ever happens but we have to do this you come up to it what is it yeah with do you want it tell us right where can people find you your use on Instagram and Twitter websites any of that sort of stuff that you can find CCA online and so website CCA dash Terry Dutch Londonderry dot org and you can find a link to order a social media on that and I put on Instagram Twitter and Facebook and we have lots of links to robin's sections as well right now great well thank you both so much and good luck with the rest of the issue just one thank you he's been listening to audio visual cultures that are very special guests Kathryn him all right and robin price escape sequences on at CC a Terry on the dairy until the twenty first of December twenty nineteen and is supported by the arts council for Northern Ireland Derry City and Strabane district council with additional thanks to Coldwell and Robinson urban centers and the sandwich co this episode was hosted edited and produced by all the players and the music is coming going to bear children licensed under a creative Commons attribution non commercial license and can be done noted from CC mixer dot org other signs that you've heard right the episodes are from Robbins magical creations episodes are released every other Wednesday please read share and subscribe on your chosen platform it says helps others find the show we're really grateful for regular donations to the poor pay dot com forward slash PP a player or one of two nations at PayPal dot me forward slash P. E. A. Blair to help cover costs incurred and making and distributing the podcast even a pined for a dollar or whatever you can give as a baby back help keep up to date by following AC cultures part on Instagram and eighty cultures on Facebook and Twitter thanks so much for listening to all the cast site there and catch the next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 36 – Hard Craft with Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming automated transcript


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Hello this is Audiovisual Cultures, the podcast that explores sound and image-based cultural production. I'm the creator and host Paula Blair. This time I'm delighted to be joined by artists Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming to talk about their collaborative exhibition entitled Hard Craft at Vane gallery in Newcastle upon Tyne and that happened from the fifteenth of November to the fifteenth of December 2018. Thanks to Sarah-Joy and Juliet for giving so much of their time to talk through their work in detail and many thanks to everyone at Vane for accommodating us in the gallery and giving us some tea while we chatted. You can get more information about Vane and its exhibitions at vane.org.uk. Do you enjoy the discussion.

<SJF> Hi I'm Sarah-Joy Ford and I'm an artist and curator and a researcher. I work in textiles, mostly quilt-making and dealing with feminist and lesbian histories and how quilt-making can be a vehicle for exploring those.

<JF> hi I'm Juliet Fleming I am an artist and curator and director of gold tops from this gallery space around the corner from thing and my work deals with female experience the twenty first century using symbols like Peter S. as embodiment of what they get here activation and Fabian and you cast upon Tyne this call hard craft would either V. like two expenses a collaborative exhibition you me it's in designs quite a few of the works together is not right we started working together about two years ago and we've been working on and off making different things and then this year is the year of one hundred years of pop the fridge in the U. K. and it seems like the sort of option moments to look up the research different elements of the suffrage movement and responds to it without books and here is what how crap you've got a mixture of textiles and ceramics and there's a bit of copper work maybe we could think is followed by the idea of materials associated with women and labor associated with women and the idea of reclaiming those as materials and objects of protests and activism yes I mean %HESITATION working textiles and my work is always kind of based on the history of women in textiles this association between textiles and embroidery and femininity and how that was a kind of shift in the kind of sixties and seventies to feminist artist be claiming these kind of domestic craft is something that instead of being seen as a private thing in the family home that was kind of placid and didn't hold any meaning they we re claiming those methods as vehicles for political expression and in the way that textiles is an awful being completely pushed aside and marginalized and masculinity discourses that pile say women pushed aside from history from politics so it made so much sense Hey put this modernized integrated media and to be the voice of women who also felt pushed aside and not legacy has always influenced my practice and you know at the time when people like Judy Chicago when faith Mingo when they were away can it was a massive thing to bring ten thousand to a gallery space is really destructive an unusual and that's not so much the case now let go on album is on the table at the moment you can see it coming into the small canonical narrative of the final but he still got the history life you bring of textile workings the gonorrhea brings with it the history of oppression and marginalization in protest it's still holds out we just need to figure out a way to work with it that knowledge isn't brings this history in both a lot reflects the shift in politics now thank goodness well less tax totals you can see the labor that goes into it you can see the stitching so the actual work actual crafts person ship is actually visible in the finished product often as well yeah but I think you know it's interesting to you people often invest a lot in what they think is hundred labor or specific kind of domestic labor actually if you take the works here there's no hunt stage apart from along the bottom of the bonuses hunt blanket stitch in the tussles a handmade Benton's attacks because I use a lot of industrial equipment I use digital southwest city my embroideries and we'll send off footage to prince if things are not really part of what my what does it situates itself not hung crossed narrative but actually is it was a very forward thinking I'm using industrial equipment so it's six again in between two different spaces but it's interesting whatever you do you ever quit minis like I use huge scale massive equipment and it still holds six quantitation of hunting butchering envoy to behave in high and it's quite a colourful exhibition there's very clear relations and a lot of it's embedded in research on the suffrage movements hundred years ago and so there's very clearly a serve the purple white and green from that of the S. P. N. things but there's a lot of tanks and lighter purple sent those kinds of softer colors as well maybe pastels may be Juliet would you like to say something about the color when we first started working to get the I just skill chef that new bridge projects hosted as part of that practice makes practice program we talked about the colors that we wanted to work with clothes that we enjoyed working with the time and lots of those came out in all the support that we made together entirely collectively when we were thinking about this project we wanted to reference that those colors that we use dead within the works in the works different expansion changed the often I've used of oranges and pinks and Reds in my practice rest their joys use of pastels and light colors soft pinks in her eyes and I think we just sort of drawing on those items for this collaborative exhibition as well as having those notes to the suffrage movement territories been talking quite a bit about our tax I work kitschy flashlight a bit more for us the way so you work with ceramics and firing and that sort of thing as well yeah similarly a marginalized medium of ceramics as textiles and different artists who are collaborating using both ceramics and textiles within that practice and that's becoming sort of a more used work or way of working the Carolina Chandra's a big influence of mine have tufting and hoped use of that and then the associations %HESITATION so supplements run next to the US to see them a ceramics I think there's a really great interesting but personally the way I work the two larger parts of been like hand built in the hand built elements of them together using some scratching and there's been lots of layers and lots of layering of colors %HESITATION as well as different places and it sort of adds to a similar way which I work where I am there in different ways of working as well as different media and then with the couple Lexi referencing the ones the glazing is different as of the first ones %HESITATION pastel soft colours because they were slips and it was a thin wire firings which achieves a circular appearance where is the stone with firings a stronger higher holiday which can produce more interesting glaze situations and chemical reactions thinking as well abate the idea of domestic space and domestic materials there's quite a few banners or pendants and the exhibition as well and those would be to take going to be March twelfth proposal here one of P. eve made things to go away with on marches which I talk about it but that is well said maybe the quoting process and applying it to protest banners yeah I guess I've been busy this year yes wants me to do stuff which is nice I hope people still meets do things after they see it at all of my works do you teach your phone kind of like a bonnet making history and the closing history Indian and my %HESITATION J. season not one thing or another not quite something but have made more kind of like straight bonus this year and it's been really interesting like collaborating with different community groups and things to make them which is a little bit different to me and it's nice that it prompted it it's always been an influence but not necessarily something that I had actually like taking them out on Monticello I was commissioned for their perceptions project and I worked with the LGBT foundation in Manchester and Republika internationally women's football team so that was kind of like trying to find a way that people could interact with it and have a safe because a bomb is usually quite like a singular message and it's not struggles was trying to find a single message that represented in this case not just one group of people two groups of people and not it's because when you commissioned as an officer if you're expected to bring your practice with you at night trying to negotiate doc boundary between both the ship and community practices really hard I'm did it kind of during workshops and made patches like same patches are just part of the same visual language of protest in bringing you know shifting test cells into public space patches long meaningful way of doing not protests replaced so we kind of made pot she said that each individual person and I have the right and say I made the digital files and stitch them or not said that they had one on the bonnet and want to keep it at home felt like you know that they had if they wanted to represent it's not a different angle on it they could but these bonus I think it took a long time talking about making them and how do these tons and I had like %HESITATION we knew we could put all these different things on them and like the ponds we originally did really busy day and then when we were making that and we just kind of put the cot images dot one kind of like didn't want to put anything else on them and not so I think it's interesting about the kids the plan is but they don't say anything that's what is interesting though as well all in protest Gooch's they meet together and it makes it exciting different because there is no message it leaves that space VA and %HESITATION say for me they represent a little bit of a space of potentiality you could just put yeah right tests on it let it day and taken out when I'm on the site that was a possibility and it leaves us face each person if you're not gonna fix maybe trying to think of my work well it's not like put their own message into and not sweat the sweat so a little bit different from kind of the community what I've done stations about maybe even making the text very very small and following the outline of the cat so even if you were to take them out much is he wouldn't be able to see what they meant to representative but it was only upon closer inspection that you see something get those took about maybe adding there's a different date or thinking about in twenty twenty eight twenty full suffrage was achieved a hundred years previous and whether you know it will that be the same amount of funding available for that date is it going to be as well advertised and will that be yes I'm not finding that for something that truly is representation of achieving suffrage rather than this selfish because it was nice that they did to me this is the reason for that I think notably Israel it because even though there's not far below language the images of the cuts are very low does it's fair to say because they've got these little flower garlands on them but you've got something else and there as well if you'd like to so does the flowers are taken from different %HESITATION uses Serra joy found with associations with the suffrage movement in different applications violets and other flowers and then some of the of the small did she printed pieces were the clitoris is that I'd made previously and they were things I've been again similarly without layering coming through they were photographs of ceramic works I taken a year or so ago if I was still using them within my practice in this one she's in different ways so we print them off and cut the margin place them in among flowers may have a similar they don't feel out of place that differently they have the infinity is one of the you know that's something that's always been talks about described in terms of female sexual pleasure and an association to plants and flowers and unique symbolism so it did feel like the right space for them and I definitely see the clitoris asses twenty first century version of female empowerment so it seems like the right time and space to be using that symbol but yeah they were originally ceramic works the identity graph and used the original piece of a similar size actually to the ones that ended up coming out this is been taken down with large pot side mate sometimes it feels like the month he made it work then you come me show is so you need to always be making something use a very high feeling of production and close to production in order to be an artist a value to us as to which I think is something that isn't very positive for lots of different reasons and some enemies to think about I think one thing I could buy the clitoris images as well as that it's not just the external part it's optional internal organs so what's the whole thing I'm not externalizing of something that's hidden away and sites you know and so few people instilled so little is known about the whole organ on there still so many assumptions about the small tiny you know it's a iceberg metaphor Tanzania nine tents under kind of saying I mean do you think there's even people who wouldn't even realize what the ship is constantly talking about something and doing something that I go what this issue pretty flowers is like a and is very few people who couldn't see the association between the shape and what is a loss of my practice previous to this was very much around that education of people in the sort of humorous fun way and I made with sex ed videos and things like that which were pretty vague P. G. the %HESITATION so very informative and talking about the legs the long time you get to decide in the two bulbs which city the site of the actual opening and it's still so few people seem to really understand to know much about the house and about how often previously they thought that maybe a vaginal orgasm was totally separate it's for publishers okay when in reality that is the pictures that assuming the season was this to create that reaction and still be productive Johnston I think there is a big association between a personal understanding and a feeling of liberation and I think that's still some way to go with us if we don't mean to be towards by whoever parents teachers schools universities it's not going to be continually talk about positive relationships and sexual education you know it's never going to really become resolved I think surgery the cops iconography or symbolism there I think there's quite a lot to read into that but I think probably most recently the idea of reclaiming the idea of the Pepsi and recent times because of comments that president trump has made in recent years so there's quite a lot of kat imagery here would you like to expand on that yes Sir I mean there's always been a kind of long standing it's a station with women and Cox like kind of sorry this is what it is and I can go to aspen that ends a longstanding thing but is also being as well as a familiarity is being used as an insult to the qualities that Cox hub is not affectionate enough cool you know cold days to be nieces insoles for women say %HESITATION I came across these postcards which even the reset treatment of cats and I initially thought they would probably suffer it say like pages of kittens saying I want my face as I that's cute the four day night feminist cafes Heston like hundred years ago that's crazy and then you realize that they were actually on T. suffrage propaganda and I just thought that like miss reading was really interesting because in the context of the women's month ches and how that symbolism in the woods as well as the infantry that comes with it with pussy I just think it is a really interesting power law like the way that we read these things differently another interesting thing about the anti suffrage pace because it cost too often used as a domestic symbol and there were tights women and not way so in a lot of the propaganda it was depictions of men struggling to run the home without women in the women abandoning them and they're always father struggling with children it is usually like at Mount Everest caught in the background or caught somewhere in the image as well which is kind of interesting I've been kind of working with kat imagery in my own practice as well because I'm kind of interested in like interspecies relationships and feminist vegetarianism and ones that I kind of quit interspecies relationships so I made some what about a woman %HESITATION Edith all right he was the very very little known first with a lesbian magazine in the state which she types on how tight my it while she was at her job because she had nothing else to Dave in fifties and it was called vice versa and she just distribute today she wanted awaits me other women and she made this incredible magazine which is like getting reviews of popular coach %HESITATION and I try to put like a lesbian spin on it and she also writes songs and might be appropriate coaches songs and put less been everything and she was this incredible woman and no one's got a clue who she is that was a project %HESITATION on by the lesbian herstory archives in New York where they were at the yeah they were documenting video documenting the lives of women and being involved in the lesbian politics movement in the state and they got this fantastic clean home video interview with her and when she's %HESITATION to and she just lives in the house full of cotton so many of them and I will rescue caught it's just so funny and joyous to watch because she's you know these people respect and how is this political form of what he did %HESITATION this quite what she's wants to talk about hot in her contract with a cap ornaments and that they want to hear the songs she was singing in the fifties and she's just I write one about my cat and I just love the and that she %HESITATION they she was kind of like pot them even though it demanding you know she dreamed about marriage equality she never had thought for herself she didn't have upon and she died at the age of all these cuts and it was interesting to me I like to take yeah we we have this habit of having very positive narratives of gay history in and then once it's kind of like look at this progression narrative I just find it so interesting how she cuts not sure it doesn't end up in headline trying you know with a partner in getting married in white took says it ends with %HESITATION I like creating this week it quit hiding with will have hot animals and greatness is quite an interesting round yeah it's really hot in my consciousness but then it was interesting to you bring that into contacts with suffrage history an archive is well the thing importantly thing at least one of the pay he says it's a quote that's not that's relating to the a very well known suffragettes he was gay and had a same sex relationship but that's the same as what we've realized in this centenary year is high many stories were not hearing because you know we're not hearing about the disabled suffragettes or did people of color you know or the working class stories as much it's you know the pine Kirsten it's always the dominant narratives even if it's fired a soul you're both still taking night does Heddon more press histories of things yeah I think there was a law if lesbians have for jasmine lesbians will always be an Apollo is inquire with men have always been a pot is gave us companion women's campaign and I they also often left out at the normative I did used to sexism intensive day gain clear me of men on had to censor schism within feminism and they get pushed aside even that act that the full front voted days things like Ethel Smith you right the much of the women she's been battles quit now and as I keep a Kobe based in Manchester he was part of the suffrage movement and did a lot of campaigning in favour Himes who the T. P. this is an S. that responses that's not quite collection at pet personal tape is at LSE and she had pun at the you know how we feel about that relationship is documented still three poems in this off five days live this whole incredible life together she was an actress and lack of pre tape drive king and she was a chauffeured to the punk because everything how the field is working is the next on their high end Swiss and I'm B. let's try that and they were that way king and said via and Russia they were prisoners of war evilly Anissa photography and said B. F. doesn't push you when she died of influenza quite young that their homes continue to campaign throughout her whole life and I think it will say the opposite the women involved in the suffrage movement involved in say much more than not like it says on the quote there is two women chassis from that and I'm not actually Chris about punk K. Hessel brunches suffrage was sort of on life in a new disease and the pieces of women's bodies that that's often an artist that gets left his name himself which is %HESITATION these narratives around in a real disease and the maltreatment of prostitutes and women not having autonomy I've that body that forced examinations and and those kind of things and not as tasteful as like posh ladies in green purple and white so yeah I do think that would be more you often get into their homes I've got like three sentences in a book but now it's kind of done this substantial recession nine days diaries from her whole life and I see and Nunes threatens to just fall and I see you bring not narrative in the case %HESITATION throughout history that queer women being at the front of campaigning for people's bodily autonomy and not just the right yet I June the aids crisis last winter that whole time supporting and campaigning in the same way for bush my mother's rights that was that and always complaining but you know it seems this is not just marginalizes tree it is too specific not universal life isn't for everyone you know not yeah it's a bit frustrating in a way I was thinking by the ceramic vases as well I'm thinking if I eat them as vessels and women's bodies as vessels J. yet you want to say anything about it sports we did not live they make their collaborative work that we envisage together that you said you didn't want the textile looks much more ceramic work that's a good thing to touch on because I think I've had a conversation with a friend about that when you came to see the show how you know that's a very traditional way of envisaging the female form as a vessel and I think that is not necessarily narrative that we wanted to go down but it was more the way the ceramics were used by the suffrage movement as being here they had a different table sets and all the different sort of works that they may need to and I think as a form of protest and of a form of reading was because it highlights that long standing view of women as vessels I think of course when creating the works were about the celebration of the symbols that we use with enough practice as well as like a symbol that we gather that the that person hours to be gathered from from the archival research and use the sort of form as a pilot as a celebration rather than thinking negatively about hours within the company %HESITATION with his vessels I think it was intended in a celebration of difference specific elements I think it is interesting to kind of see those ideas come to the forefront and whether that was devised ways taken from the work because of the seats each individual person's experience of the works so I think it's something to be thought of I think it's important that idea of when there are groups of women the carrier were expected to carry or be vassals for other people's problems as well as their own you know just like what you're saying sorry joy there's a lot to mine I defy ideas while maybe that connects to the lesbian history of all of those things so much is coming to light you this we were there idea but you've been a reduced from history it just feels like the works are communicating or attempting to articulate things along those lines Juliet and Serah choice kindly showed me round the exhibition where we discussed specific pieces and more detail beginning with the ones incorporating the present arrow shaped I think you're talking about the looks of this rooms of referencing malicious I think that the different association with that because these were very much taken from the ones that we used during suffrage suffragettes marches you can see they were used in the research and you can see them being used to help they each represented a suffragette who had been imprisoned throughout the fight for suffrage and then the ban is obviously at this point in time they on you know you probably couldn't take the one month you have to have extra copper pulls out its but the jump is another you know that something people do often uses maybe a slow going on their own closing as part of that wave protests and I think this whole room kind of does that entrevistas coming to talk on the dated December eighth in the people she's just left the people's history museum on Saturday and she's talking about kites in my presentation in process and how the US who is being used as a vehicle people using their bodies to present political messages no it was a show at the fashion test house museum in London it was the ship out today and not import political importance of Tatius it out definitely draws on not a little bit I like the way it from a distance and he didn't really see the tax you just see a cute cats and then if you get close up to it you see the tax then and then you see the slave so right those are actually but like pets and I rose on the slave so you actually think a kit kat %HESITATION I want my vote %HESITATION okay there's something I really like that idea of drawing and I think you're saying that as well surgery but did post cards as I say okay cast so I kill oh wait there's something going on there that's not very nice I work this is hitting me in the face there's something not quite right I think that's the thing about feminism and feminist %HESITATION the I've always being invested in is its ability to resist constantly reshape reform and re claim things that has been previously negative into kind of symbolism for involvement not so it's a great about it and in the same way quicker Aug quit coach it does not as well you mean like the would quit was the season in so and it's been we claims and like a lot of my practices about that process it re claiming but doing it slightly differently you may like taking something and I re framing and picking different elements from different things and remodeling it into something else just an observation from may by the arrows as well the objects we were looking at a quite large they're like spears almost yeah in Noam because the water but six foot tall yeah I guess I was trying to go for something of a similar size to what they were carrying and then things but they're they're ceramic on top in the very top heavy but then there's a very simple wrapping around of the ribbon which is then cut into the same so chevron hours during my work in my practice I use it all of chevron's in trying to your neck shape age and I've been kind of like melting some of those different symbols together and taking on that prison hours and if using it with the clitoris as you know a metaphor for the previous situations for female sexuality and sexual pleasure and the negativity does often surrounded S. and possibly sometime still surrounds it and the kind of push forward for more sexual empowerment and education okay we take a look at the other gallery yeah when you come in this space when I came in earlier and I haven't been in before I just sold a quote that the Bacolod while because it's a beautiful objects quite glossy and shiny and then when you go up in the start to read the details on that got it there's quite apart from message and that is something quite regal about it today because it's quite a light purple and assertive ships that have been used yeah I mean I ease lavender lilac could is the law he's the kind of comes again I was talking about light retaining %HESITATION to insult so I was talking about how lesbians being kind of pushed out and I wanted to the women's movement say Betty free day and he right the feminine mystique I have some sort of compensation something she code that's been the laughing the menace of the women's movement the kids they were taking away from the real issues talking about relationships between men and women in domestic space and saying that it was you know putting the attention from my women needed the help the group of women who originally called themselves laughing diminished took on that name intend up from like sliding events and saying no this is going to be a collaboration with all women like we will have to be you know it's the same it's the same impression that affects the school and they eventually became the lesbian avenges so I kind of like take one not pasta %HESITATION nothing death thing is it comes from the system is being rejected from what we think is not much nice great anyway but also focus on the clinical side most lines have since been marginalized yeah you know it goes on and on I mean it's kind of cool regal fights because it was saying about the class numbers hit their high walls ready privilege %HESITATION walls from pipe which company and that's why I'm even strive it is in the will actually came from privileged families because they were bitching of slow and drawn in by saying about the code is in the office hi there what about how much they love hunting and killing thing and then I have not come cheap people and they would you know if she wasn't going to see if she had to work for a living eventually but I think them's Vincent so if with a family because we normally from that class you wouldn't work as an actress is something anyone that but she was great privilege and it left in this big house in Scotland and shop things I think that's interesting and every time I sometimes our history and made K. policy but we're not sure yet she shot stuff and she was probably a bit of snow but still alive as investments in the initials it's the same kind of central image on the table cloth as well say the initials it comes right now is when Adelina died in Serbia very high and asked for her stuff back from the house right and on the list eventually the stuff she wanted back with that bad and on the bad this call for evidence shows in Indonesia there was a wood carving tools such as wild as she asked for some might just say %HESITATION and rocketed by this imagined memory if these two women not carving out their existence and making themselves present in this domestic space that no one's ever gonna see but ended up in an archive and I owe these people really invest in this tiny moment this one thing on the list of stuff that was in the house this opens up this whole space reimagining this well that they've built together so yeah it was kind of thinking about creating this whole domestic imagined quite a massive which is pretty much all of my Protestant kind of does that a little bit in different ways but it's really kind of obvious and the influx these are on opposing walls so the quotas on one wall and pretty much adjacent to it on the facing wall listed table crossing them between we've got the plants with the fast works make up quite a range color should there Seattle six white soft oranges there's more dialects and soft blues with the marking so if you've got the confederacy midges secretly oximeters so we could talk a bit about the axis while and there's more of the arrows and female symbol the double female symbol to the double headed axe the upside down why and the double linking female simple old Serra choices and then the upside down chevron and cancerous on mine and then the prison hours are on the final respects of claims that sweet into a twelve if symbols thirty if you want to open the library so the double headed up to the hospital in my way because it's in these pieces as well and I used it these at all it's just kind of traditional lesbian symbol that kind of turned up probably around the fifties but I think it was that before that I get asked about the law and having a conversation with Phyllis Christopher everybody's trying to explain where it come from it's kind of one of those things that no one's really sure it came from and it just turns up on stuff you know some of it site link to South Bay and I'm is in the lead choose in this kind of all these different everyone's got a different take on it but it comes up especially like I've reset channel if seventies and eighties lesbian archival material and it turns up all the time and not but that's why I kind of like about it when you use the Kennedys histories and stuff you don't have an S. no one's gonna see nation there is no matter what it says this is what I this means this and this means not like it's a very open kind of thing that turns up at the last I'm not a site in these pieces and %HESITATION saves a north coast all in that does this amazing oral history project about lesbian simple but I in the forties and fifties and they took it's about how women have tight teas at the new school stuff on there right that could be covered by water the like kind of like to do that a little bit way not mixing up the time lines a little bit and kind of like cross pollinating the kind of symbols from different times and I'm refusing this one fixed and not site with the lab and I did anyone can actually probably tell you something to say I thank Hon I'm left name but it's up to the real pastries thing is well it's maybe there's no fixed point of origin things profile button there's no rack origin I suppose maybe that's the curse on the bonus of having no fixed origin is that it can be Canadians buy things that's really fascinating and then with one of the larger pots the picturesque symbol I think I discovered it maybe two or three years ago when there was a school shooting about French sex ed classes with three D. printing processes as a way of teaching people and everyone was just shocked that in their workplace like and then people continue to be shocked I didn't know whether I was only getting this kind of information because of you know my search history or something because as I continue to talk about it people seemingly still don't know and like you said you know it's still there is a lawsuit that is hidden and very available information but unless you get kind of shown it you don't see it and prison hours those %HESITATION in the recess room there on loads of different bits of imagery so they're in the March and the using the ones but they're also on some of that sort of mock prison golf you can see them in station invoices into the closing dresses in the a prince of the wiring and then chevrons are big so there's a positive very clear similarity between the chevrons and the ones our heads and the prisoners we took the Andrews asking the panelists because originally we were talking about maybe having them all having a V. pointing downwards then we thought maybe be nice too in the the other two bonus we have one representing each of us and then one representing them suffrage movement so the central Katz was originally going to be Sarah joys cast hang but she wasn't she was unplayable so we end up using stock cats and then we have C. B. and says he wakes Phoebe is there a joint tenants cat and Pacific is mine and my partner's can passed on the last been flocking to the US one this call at the office phones paying for them than white lighter color yeah the little named little east Lothian five exactly no it does yeah but if you've got a good life yes and then it it specifically the W. S. P. A. is not but I think nine days we just associate the green light to park phone with suffragettes yeah I was not sure the well yeah I mean we've done pan suffragists and suffragettes anyway kids yeah the W. S. B. U. A. suffragettes and they were very different to the subjects you came before them and I think people don't really like to take a fall days T. movements in two groups of women because it was a really stop contrast between those that using military tactics and those who would I think people want to like gloss over a little bit this civil disobedience and like you know the kind of blowing stuff off and I it's funny how we fetishized in some ways and I'll cook check but like a lot of the things that they were doing fit into terrorism narrative now but I didn't contact terrorism there you today they were just just a little bit disgruntled the post office and then we'll sources is out today yeah in Kenya in a way and I it's become marginalized and sanitized and I'm kind of hoping that in a way the fact that we had this posh on investor I had high hopes right talking about different kinds of numbers to it in different kinds of histories and in our suit quite fell short of my expectations so I'm kind of haven in a way we've got tons head that there is a ten unit got off before the next son of this week the maybe people would have got the cells together and like we can learn because I was thinking that they have a problem with with these continue anniversaries I'm kind of dates and all kind of chronological way of doing history in remembrance and it's a little bit like I say in the foot well I got what it yet but what about next to any kind of especially when you think means it's feminist well he's quit well you know I feel like I've always go to like new right myself around a day or none of the history of something trauma and called it something that such a base in the local and not something like a lot especially for queer histories and women's histories change of law which is often what we celebrate on mock and memorialized through doesn't really work for those kind of pastries and thoughtful and that Narine things down I'm not really sure what the answer is it just doesn't say a hundred percent comfortably for me having to fit into these kind of technologies if government when actually they were all fat ass radicals and then do the ads to the two year color sentences deep red and orange and pink yeah I regionally I think when I was studying online was using a lot of very sort of muted colors it was lots of you know terror I was still using ceramic cloth terracotta is of the sort of problems and possible some things and also found objects in very very different from one company doing but what changed was leaving university kind of discovering how the all wheel seemingly works at the moment %HESITATION has worked in the past and feeling like of the the very clear gap between you know the the fifty sixty women who are studying ways and the two or three or four who are continuing to practice office wall a vast majority of the men who is studying a role continuing to rice's office that's a generalization but that was what it felt like at the time I definitely think there was a lot to finish season of people who are speaking to who simply felt similar when I was jarred by this and I felt like the work had been previously making it was very very subtle and it wasn't about you wouldn't have a feminist sort of tenderness and then as I left and to sort of discovered all this my what became a bit more became louder and with that the call this changed and they became out of you know what what could produce was me his force be with you and it was a ceramic double ended dildo that I created for shows I had out workplace gallery and it was about me and my personal feelings feeling kind of undermined in the workplace so it felt very resonated with that and then not just kept going on and on while at the time I was creating another fine example when thing that's when I noticed all this knowledge that definitely beyond their own selfish but I'd only just discovered around female sexuality people sexual pleasure and positivity and the organ itself that it felt that that needed to be pushed out civil needed should be out there and spread more units or live a twit doors we see like choosing Cox and things like that and you know that now he doesn't need to continue and also that does need to be in the narrative and the clitoris that's the sort of simply can score on the inside of twelve known to know which is kind of really sad but then if you keep doing it and then hopefully they'll be a continuation and growing I'm standing on the ledge do you both feel that you have to be ambassadors for the sort of things that you do you like do you feel the need to feel pressured to do feminists worker cleared as be in work or anything like that I'm just drawn to it you know when you start to feel something and you feel empowered by that feeling how could you not to teach make work about that it just feels like the natural progression of your practice for me yeah I mean I think all of my what kind of %HESITATION to ethnographic and not not just how it is on hot yeah same thing it's just kind of well I mean John T. you and I don't feel pressured to do it but like I said I just feel like I'm constantly explaining myself making excuses and trying to like open up the door for people to view it and make them feel comfortable and not people just aren't used to encountering what maybe like isn't relating to that personal experience you know this is a few artists that would position themselves as lesbian or may have it jaws like when I tell someone it jobs and then I %HESITATION that's me I'm interested in the space of bumping up against things and people and it's not quite working in China situate yourself in this very specific voice and you know I mean total us not universal so no one's going to be interested in it I think it's to say %HESITATION defiance you know people don't like the word lesbian people you know if they're going to be anything that could be quick and identifies but eighth and yeah it is just a kind of I'm just gonna make well I want to me because it's what I'm interested in what makes my work speak because it is the %HESITATION to know fate I thought so what it does is it brings in a personal and the collective in kind of negotiate stays and now I'm just trying to find my wife working but do you have to explain a lot okay explain my tiring because you feel like you you have to educate people yeah I'm the rest as well as the yeah I think it's a good thing and a bad thing I think that people think that all right yeah he's not the test cells in the Connery we let women in the out both the comic money but we let them in so it's fine and we've done it and it so it definitely is a judgment around that it's boring for it's been good and insight for textiles in particular do you feel like that and craft unit Crofton I hate the words I did see policies crafted in both a biography or community what people see it as something that student finishing move with finishing not now but you never do that so I I start painting and I think there still is a is still the most nice medium you have got these different set of expectations I think it's still a feminist work here you're asked to explain itself why do you feel the need to do that like is always the question because again I think is this that you know we still got this idea of universality and it's a white man exactly it's a diesel yeah and human I think that is still a problem in people I like it is in DC like that as well yeah show yeah I absolutely concur I think that was the you know one of the things about that was really what we had to reset from the material I'll cover research this does a bit of that underlying explaining and research that was undertaken as well as the hand of the comes of the exhibition because there are lots of subtle nuances the coffee into an A4 sheet that need to be addressed and the information thing people still want to know the information I think that it's having it available in this kind of way that mean this vein and this way the space walks but perfectly for that and it was really great to show the work we've been doing for the last two years which didn't fit in with this exhibition specifically was nice to have it that because the phone it you can see like solicitations which doesn't quite fit it was nice to be able to show that yeah yeah it's a beautiful objects it's not in the in the images online for the exhibitions it wasn't overly surprised to see this table as well yeah this is the kind of fight over the stuff that we may move in that did this I was gonna stab us it didn't take the school of the downed opnieuw bridge not so in math and made by some of the criticism I get in my way because it is so complicated on it so you reset space and like I've got a story about every little detail every piece what about Maggie's online dot doesn't necessarily communicate across like you get at in Paktika animation but you know you can't necessarily read all that so it's quite nice when we took him out of sight labor of explaining this yeah and you can come in here and recognize the images recognize that our roads that quotas the cops like you can see and that's really nice to me because I felt I thought something I've struggled with it my way and also just you know having the space to do it we have this room so we could do it I'm thanks to the LSE lots that suffrage time line that you can download for free at that images that will set a bad apple online you can download them that copyright free and %HESITATION save me my PhD is around that's been archived and it's really good to to be able to kind of raise awareness and I show them all the archives in contemporary all and also that you con like this leads online archive site that's been history all five of the films and stuff one line that you don't have to get to New York to reset in an archive so that's nice to like help out here the people in to do a little bit I thought labor he's about acticin the way you've worked was how much extra interesting stuff like when you're talking about %HESITATION quotes going into all the details but if this is because when they lived in Scotland and the dog at the bottom it was a hunting dog and the car at the top at night because of the way we've worked I noticed some of those things that was really great to have those extra elements and extra things well you see much progress in the buff yes and it's really interesting about your practice do you think there's a bit of anti intellectualism coming through in those criticisms I'm quite and inquisitive person and I love that there's so much detail behind what you're dating you I love that there's discoveries to be made in their stories behind things I think there is yeah I think people are so used to like the way that museums and art galleries now this oppression this responsibility to explain and yeah and is part of why the discourse of anti intellectualism and I think the other thing is there's this separation between different groups of people looking at my west Seneca made this quote that weighs five minutes only for the simple reason if different that's being cases from different films and television programs and it's interesting to see the different people in countering it and some people can go through the whole thing and just pick out every single light when it came out what the phone lines and they've got the access route into that very specific visual language and someone else to look at but I want some light and then it and the symbols like the lap race at someone else instant news what that is and to me that's what's interesting about how people encounter things on different levels with that rain context and knowledge and Mike it's okay sometimes thought might not be for you thus the someone else not to if you have people he thought language belongs here and I think not the silence if not understanding another people's language is really interesting and we don't think of the intensive lesbian culture particularly if you think of quick coach at what came on like pops up you have to not drive queens I'm interested in sight coal like wealth and visual material and the language that really is a language that we need like the difference between different people encountering the workers must it not so I find fascinating so it's like trying to find a way the balances between shattering and I think people access that language and %HESITATION said Hey there's a little bit this is how it is right yeah it's funny that idea of it's not universal only a select few people look at this you know and it's like well is that he's been left Titus do you have any I think you know similarly some of the different symbols and things when someone does recognize is really great because you have already right next in conversation and those don't really inquisitive Aktion and it was on a conversation either way it is a positive thing I think there is a really interesting relationships to the symbols on a language that is forged between people who understand it but it's not so exclusive this hopefully this conversation could hinge kind of rectify that so while it may sometimes seems that is very close and very specific to certain people I don't think that this would be the case I think it's available information it's about the motion only but that's done in talking to the people about just where the news other people can kind of find that information for themselves a service ticket or significant set of that process and fragments rather than one piece so it's in several parts into stocks and three Martin yeah this house around okay that we only have access to a small medium build could take the opportunity to talk about a great symbolism practicality yeah yeah I I think you know you smoke is intense though that they were great I love thought what you encounter something with the material and not demands that you do something or ends up influences is nothing not to K. nothing it's like he's invited and I like how this must be it six because I guess with separating intensive time like this is %HESITATION just stuff that yeah you have to date see the kind of sketches I'm not dissimilar doesn't use a sketch with property this is my life it's got specs yeah and then I'm really bad with haven do you want to talk about the events that %HESITATION alongside the exhibition of it say this is screening tonight which will be nice in cooperation with the knife %HESITATION which is a feminist film archive connected and they're gonna mazing collection of old phones say it's kind of taking up all the themes if using craft in using domesticity in bringing out into public spaces a protest toxic but how that was adopted by lesbian activist says a lot of office %HESITATION is a film about section twenty eight with lots of banners in and stuff it's a really nice way to see how people to cook tucks the fridge top tech and is a phone booth seventeen reusable what do lesbians do it bad that's cut from two films because it's kind of cutting the domestic space with a school in public space and night that's what the suffragettes dead yeah it's a nice way to see the similarities with kind of seventies that's been a physician and then on the fifteenth of December two two four Helen I'm suppose he was the pro bom dia PC's medium she is coming to talk about dress Impreza in place I'm talking about some of the collections at the people's issues in so she's also has been very busy this year do you both want to cloak stuff to your website social media or anything all the information about this exhibition on by anal gallery about a month and then my Instagram is at Judea Fleming J. U. L. I. E. T. F. L. E. am I NG my website the same but with the U. K. I do you pay for things on my ends from two separate joy for on the website she surgery for adult cold I will pay for a day since if one doing papers and things will be on that today I can't thank you both enough for taking the time to show me around everything and explaining everything so beautifully thank you so much thank you yeah if you find this useful or interesting and would like to support the continuation of this work become a member on Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures a monthly pledge from as little as one dollar look at you access to extended show notes on previous one of two nations and pine sterling are gladly received at PayPal dot me forward slash P. for their for details on hi my name is used and what resources we need to see the website at all the official culture stopped wordpress dot com follow AP cultures on Twitter and Facebook for regular updates the music used is from common grind by air tone available under creative Commons licensing at stake CC mixer don't work you can also support on Patreon thanks so much for listening caption next time