Audiovisual Cultures episode 106 – Cinemallennials with Dave Lewis automated transcript

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hello and welcome to another episode of audio visual cultures the podcast that hooks and pokes in the different areas of audio visual media and the creative industries I'm Paula Blair and I'm really excited to introduce you to my cast D. Esalen yes makes a similar deals podcast which you should absolutely check right Dibbs website where you can find his home movies and podcasts Angie cheap thanks as in the show notes where ever you're accessing this episode please do you go and check that all right Steve is seeing really great work to promote cine and media literacy so please go and give him all the support you can Steve has also been kind enough to help me cast on cinema landing Elsa please see subscribe wherever you access your podcast C. don't miss what for me was a richly enjoyable conversation bites it happened one night said Frank Capra film from nineteen thirty four a massive Sanchi S. while T. our patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AV cultures and all our wonderful listeners for keeping us going there will be more information on ways to support artificial cultures at the end finally settling in for this really joyous maybe conversation with their David S. host of Senna millennials podcast you're very welcome to the official cultures thank you for having me I really appreciate you having me on yeah I've been really looking forward to this I really enjoyed staying on your podcast representing the older millennial content and we'll explain your podcast and the minute I think just generally it's alright if I ask you hi E. J. N. and whereabouts are we talking to you from and that sort of stuff yeah I'm doing well I'm from New Jersey in Union County New Jersey closer to New York %HESITATION around a forty minute train ride away from the Big Apple crafts city if he a lot of film reviews and you have what comes across to me as a particular and trashed and classical era holy way it's it's not fair to say I was wondering if you'd be happy C. chest and judges yourself and tell us about your interests and why you're so drawn to the types of films a year Jontay and that sort of stuff yeah my name is Dave Lewis signed host %HESITATION and %HESITATION producer creator extraordinary whatever you wanna call it it's such a weird thing to like have a title for %HESITATION when you do everything now but yes so I am the creator of Semenya's podcast where myself and another millennial watch a classic found so that ranges from eighteen ninety to nineteen sixty nine because that is you know with the academic quote on quote quote out or you're out of the classic era for filmmaking I've always just been fascinated with history basically what we do is we go into we watch the movies the very first time and then we see how it relates to our society today are millennial experiences whether be culturally popular culturally socially politically economically what have you we really want to try to understand the people of the past within the lines of our present and future and I think it's really important that we look at that stuff because all of the different things that we are going through right now whether it be racial issues other P. economic issues classicist issues there are a lot of things that we can learn from the past in order to create a better future and I've just always been fascinated with history ever since I was a little kid %HESITATION my mom got me a Fisher price castle where you can have a cannon ball shoot out in a trebuchet catapult and have the little clicking kind of as a drawbridge in the nights and everything and that really really made me fascinated with history and I think film really came into a creation point like %HESITATION kind of a amalgamation of those two and which is why I was inspired to cream similar deals we learned a lot from our history and learn a lot of things through film about history yes there's a lot of inaccuracies within historical filmmaking but what we really try to do is to look at the humanity of that really focus on the way of the future and someone else is a perfect fit for that really I think it's a rainy Accern idea for a podcast because it's both a combination of the period that you're looking at switch it anyway it's quite a big area of cinema but in another sense in terms of sort of leisure our history it's so tiny and it's still in a state of becoming it settles so that's really interesting but then also the generation that you focus on because you know you're not liking it tends ads are jammed seeds you know at the same time it's specifically millennials sons that ranges from the older ones like me from the at the stadium %HESITATION people up to the late nineteen nineties and stuff so that combination I'm thinking these older films that as if some educator having taught a lot of you know younger people coming even after me and the sense is that %HESITATION those of some suggest boring and they're nonsense you know so I'm I'm just seven said it just a probe a little bit more what kind of things are you learning from not from this combination of those two things together yeah it's it's fastening like the other idea that that I had with some money has just that I was noticing like watching Marvel movies or whatever is big right now Star Wars and then especially right now June there is a massive massive influence of older sounds coming to the sounds that are coming out today and there are a lot of people that there's this culture this some called you're on YouTube of covering found and breaking down are saying we do explain the ending explained of things and I find this really fascinating because people want to know everything they have this deep deep hunger to know everything because partly people want to you know feel better are more superior than other people and in that way I wanted to get that group but at the same time I wanted to get the group that we will find it boring they find it exhausting all its black and white so that's not gonna be interesting but there's a lot of things that you can play with within black and white within shadows I think the shadow plays like the thing that's the most important thing about that is you're able to unlock something with a a restriction of not having color with the restriction of having to write around saying this in order to make it more relevant to that person or read more relevant to that culture and that time without specifically and explicitly saying those things like we talk about the podcast but he's code I think it's so fascinating to see where people come from where myself and other money has come from what they're like saying I've never watched a classroom before but I understood that because of the different references behind it and I understood the simplicity of it because it wasn't so specific but at the same time like we talked about in our I'm sorry that it happened one night there are references where I myself am not gonna understand at all that other people might reference might understand like the older generations and I think with the millennial generation's wanting to know more that's where I was like okay maybe more and more and now there's a big film culture on Twitter and YouTube people want to know more and more and they want to see more educated within sound and I thought it was a way for not only myself to learn more about classical filmmaking or phone majors the masters of the past if you well I thought it was a really cool idea to talk to people about it to see and almost on the same line because that sounds a little pretentious but bring people decide Hey this stuff is amazing because of how revolutionary it was and how still relevant it is tags and I think it's really it's a great opportunity to bust some misconceptions I think as well because the more you take memory Rafael and I think we've both top seed mutual friend of ours ours Henriques fights now the cabinet of Dr Caligari and what strikes me about that sound is just a reminder is that those are the silent films they're not necessarily black and white because they use a lot of color filters here there's lots of police and park pinks and greens that are used in the US and so they're expressionist in more ways than one it's not just long shadows and things are actually quite vibrant and hi there expressing the internals evenings of characters and so on it's a really lovely opportunity for you to get someone by your side and for each of you to learn not to gather it's quite a joyous thing to lessen safe for me I'm so glad to get that fact and it's funny you say that it's joyous because the majority of the people that I've talked to so far within twenty something episodes everyone's love their movie everyone's love the vibrancy of everyone's loved the different acting techniques that they had back then would there be a silent or a talkie it's something that's like so fasting to see like once they understand like oh wow this is art this is a true form of art and expression and it's been something that's around for a hundred years not just the last twenty or thirty years or forty years now that's more things are coming up within forty years now you know especially the things that we grew up with four years plus almost fifty years so now it's definitely something that has brought me a lot of joy into having a lot of people really dig deep into things that they were never seen before and I enjoy listening to yes I think because I think a lot of the films that he caught fire our fans that I may be watched as a younger person because I was just curious about cinema and then I ended up studying it formally so I watched a lot of the times as well in my film studies courses %HESITATION hands my own research and teaching it remains to somebody like me to watch his sons for the joy of them as well as for what you can learn from them so I enjoy it on those two novels that's exactly what I was gone for so thank you so much and words I was wondering how do you choose your person that you did way because I know that you have some people come back and do them repeatedly I suppose with all of us to start with an indie pop past you start to you know restart with your friends and that kind of stuff and people you bump and say on the internet like maybe but and here are you looking for he shared ideal cast do you think my ideal gas would be someone I don't know I think it's I I like talking with family and friends because I think it's so interesting to see where their %HESITATION perspective start from it and with I don't know would be interesting to see if I can get somebody whether it be like academics like yourself or maybe somebody that's been involved with filmmaking or like an actor or an actress of the really cool to have if they're like doing a period piece and they want to go back or maybe something like along the lines of I think it would have been great to have somebody that was a part of manc talk about change I think that would have been awesome to say because I feel like especially with Citizen Kane Citizen Kane is something that everyone knows about rose bud whether people know it or not and especially with names and how it was it was about the creation of the story there so many like different versions of the creation of the story with their long tails asset which now has been proved false which is the whole movie that's that's the whole movie is based off but now it's interesting to see like how people really interactive film and how they go from saying %HESITATION yeah it's just a movie too wow it's saying a lot about society and especially how it so real relevant to our world today but yeah I think somebody will that would be a part of something whether it be like movies like bank or %HESITATION the other side of the window I don't know why I am referencing or someone else here twice %HESITATION he's been on my brain a lot %HESITATION for some reason but %HESITATION no I think somebody like that would be really really cool to have well never say never hopefully %HESITATION yeah that would be really great to say that I'm thinking it's all about you saying references this is something I used to tell my students as somebody who is say teaching usually first year from Saudi students a lot I noticed that you know every year maybe just get a bit more reticent to just be there at university %HESITATION and there's a lot of factors involved in that and in the U. K. I don't rating I can't speak for the aspect you know there's reasons behind that I need at the moment %HESITATION arrange the structures and that sort of stuff and %HESITATION I used to tell my students you know it's not even just staying well academically you actually start to understand references and shows like family guy a lot more pay attention to what I'm telling you and you'll enjoy it more because you'll get it you go oh that's from that made me understand this million attack from rival and that was something that came up in our episodes that's coming up as well is is and chances as you say of some sort %HESITATION coming out each day you will understand them more because those directors there from disco love going to the cemetery R. cinephiles I know what you're doing and they love what they're doing so you'll understand some more if you just watch widely right I feel like that's where a lot of especially the big directors today now like some my favorite directors are you need on news and %HESITATION Christopher Nolan and basically they often I say this a lot of a Christopher Nolan he basically takes a lot from Hitchcock yeah with the attention that he builds within the film whether P. Dunkirk where you have the constant ticking of the mechanical movement of a watch no I love that effect because I'm in the big lots guys well %HESITATION ology guys well but it really builds that tension and then with you need to live he uses a lot of the stuff from science fiction of the past but is able to fully realize the world I've been obsessed with dune for the last couple years building up because I've read the first two Bucks to run really really struggling to get there but I think what he was able to do was he was able to build a world of all %HESITATION you know George Lucas and Mike he's able to build the world even though George Lucas is you know it people don't differ on if that's a classic or not because that's the whole like kind of ideas people say oh a classic is just the thing that like you know everybody revers rather than the academic sense which is the layman you know I go by but on the way that he's able to build and build and build this kind of tension and he kind of reminds me of older film directors not even but before long you can also say his cock as well because of his stuff from that the signer a lot of people don't know that you talked it silences swelling even today %HESITATION he did an adaptation of plough and the stars which is really ran into me as someone that worked in higher studies and I was really interested in %HESITATION saying that but anyway I think basically what we see a lot with those two directors and other direct like when Tarantino is probably a great example even though I'm not a fan is %HESITATION that they're using the techniques and they're using the ideas of the past and are influenced by the past and they want to elevate their stuff by using the old masters and by using the old masters they elevate their own projects as well in definitely it's quite great sales to show people that are at least introduce it to them and for them to to get up and run was set by themselves you know that's a great thing to pass on to people would you like to receive updates thanks and special offers straight to your inbox then visit audio visual cultures dot wordpress dot com to sign up to your mailing list yeah I wanted to ask you how you teach to use the phones you've mentioned a few limitations already you've got last time period so we're looking at quite as she mentions classicism in the sense of periodization select right at the time he gets up and you're looking for the moment as far as I know %HESITATION specifically Hollywood scare which is a bit gray in the very early years but a lot of the films that we go right back to the eighteen nineties are probably going to be really difficult to access any rise I mean you need that limitation I think you need a limitation but I just wondered about your experience working with and not and it just got me thinking Kian uprights there is a distinction I think an important distinction between Hollywood and yes our American sentiment they're very different things actually and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that and what impact that has maybe on shaping your podcasts or is it something you might address at some point you know just what do you think about that yeah I am I thought about it to certain degree because I know you know in the early eighteen nineties obviously it was dominated by Edison which is my area of where I live and it is dominated by %HESITATION Addison and a couple other early ones until Addison actually forced people out to go to Hollywood by literal gun point actually I'm not himself of course why would he do that he has a bunch of cronies that day I was in was not a great person and everybody thinks he is generally there is an absolute distinction between American Hollywood sounds and it is very difficult because what is said ninety percent or up to ninety percent above of silent films are completely lost so often it is very hard so when I take the phones originally I just picked I think was a hundred or something films of what are deemed to be the best of the best classics are the most well known classics as well as some things that I knew personally from things that I wanted to find out from whether it be European filmmaking whether B. E. S. judgment yeah E. or a and a half a dozen half again I can remember my gosh the Italian director Fellini at every company name yes only thank you %HESITATION Fellini and then some of the French directors this file that I really really interesting never really got into %HESITATION because I understood that some of their stuff is kind of a little difficult to get into if you don't understand the whole culture and you know being American I don't think I'm a regular if you're an American and a lot of ways but some ways I am I think that what I was trying to do is let's look at like all the things that are deemed to be as the classics where I looked at the AFI lists the BFI lists not wanting to have a good diversification as well as introduce other not so long well known classics like on the list I have %HESITATION I have the response by Oscar Michaud who is a African American director who is one of the first African American directors I can't remember the title the sound I think it's the unconquerable or something like that %HESITATION where she responds to D. W. Griffith's birth nation where a lot of people think that this is like you know D. W. Griffith stays the great you know introduction of epic cinema when in actuality there are people in Italy in France doing a lot more than he was way before December Griffiths even came to the stage and that we're doing way less problematic stuff and I wanted to introduce Oscar me shall I wanted to introduce other people that might not be able to be on the pedestal of what Hollywood and other people think as like the great filmmakers and I want people to look into European filmmaking because there's a lot of great stuff as well as I'm trying to now look at other phones outside of Europe outside of Hollywood outside America in order to have a big diversification when I do have people that are from other places that want to talk about their personal and cultural experiences going to the cinema so mainly we have phones that are known as the benchmark for a lot of stuff so what every citizen came in with like we talked about for me you know Frank Capra's kind of lexicon of the are %HESITATION filmography of americana or like we talked about Capricorn with it's a wonderful life which is one of my favorite films of all time and then you had the great British directors like this guy behind me David lean %HESITATION Lawrence of Arabia which is another great favorite some of mine it's all across the board I wanted to understand what is the best things are what a lot of people like scholars like yourself for you know academic saying this is the best as well as the same thing as what a lot of people say is the best like people that are outside of the cell making world news I wanted to understand and I wanted to like educate myself as well as help other people educate themselves through listening to and participating and going back to the idea of American town versus Hollywood there's a lot of you know D. I. Y. and corn corn punk type of influences are there's a lot of DIY and punk type of directors that are doing stuff that not many people know about some trying to delve deeper into those in order to see like if I can add anything on and then I have course you added it happened one night so I'm always open to suggestions whether it be you know anything in the world it doesn't matter weather be like you know a small thing or something that's obviously why didn't I think of that what am I doing why didn't I just think of that movie so it's a whole thing across the board it gets me thinking a lot of by curating your own films being in a way that's been on my mind about it anyway because again our our mutual friends larceny son and Garen and I over at mysterium picks for him you know where they've they find a desk you know they find a hard drive for C. three hundred pounds on them and so that's what their podcast is about it is it's curated for them as their family hearing and what you've done and the limitations that you've sacked and that's something that for me and they show it I know that my show is it doesn't have that many she know I'm quite broad and sprawling because those are my research in Trastevere where where's that where things stepping over each other I just feel like there's really good crimes here for a really fascinating research projects where it's right I want to make a podcast debate the staying and so in Q. reading a script the film so I'm gonna watch to talk them three you know I I just %HESITATION something ready fascinating about that that's just bring a light yeah macos participating in that and other people's head that way as well which is quite nice yeah it's I mean it's funny you say it's like kind of like a research project which I mean that I think that's a perfect example of what it is because %HESITATION I went to school for history I'm trained ademas historian because you know that's not my field and I want to sound too pretentious in there I'm not gonna call myself %HESITATION missile historian but %HESITATION you know I did study anyway anyway you are to no sales the story no one but no I am I studied history went to school for history because as I said before was a lifelong passion and I really do think that film is a good way of introducing not exactly educating because obviously you know there's too much Hollywood stuff like the last tool which is in the army %HESITATION but now which is actually funny like to go on a little little tangent armor medieval representations of armor are better in the first half of the cinema rather than what is going on today unfortunately but I think it's a great way to really see what people are into and see what they're not into and then see how they can relate it back to our world tangy and how to understand what we're doing wrong or what we did do wrong in the past whether it be through art or social movements and how we can fix that today and I think through filmmaking that introduces a lot of topics that are can be often difficult and can really make people not make people but can really make them feel comfortable enough to talk about those issues I think I'm not I was wondering if you have some examples of factors jokes that come picky to mines create from Sentinel any elsewhere that sort of thing has really happens and Ian your cast a pretty dull guy something even arsed something like that is really shiny oh gosh that's so relatable to see the recession we've just seen one ten years ago or something like that like do you have some examples that you kids aren't semesters to words yeah the main one the main examples that I thought of was all about eat and how when it's apparently clear coat it there's a lot of references to queer coding within that I myself did not know any of that from that world I heard a little here and there but my cousin Kelly who inside you know she's very interested in that kind of period and then %HESITATION but not that kind within that there's issues and within those issues but in the period and how %HESITATION there's a lot of different references to clear %HESITATION ideas and representation within that film and I had no idea about that because I I you know I always heard about all about eve being this like on Twitter there's a big old Hollywood community and with it being so kind of like I'm looking to DVD box right now with how impactful it is within that community and I was like okay well all I can see it this way and somebody sees it as another way really fascinates me because you know I myself I'm straight says hat person you know I don't understand everything that's going on within that community I try to educate myself more more which is why one of the reasons why I picked all of that is because I wanted to know about that and why Kelly picked all about eve %HESITATION because of its representation in a time where that representation could not make sense in a lot of places and now when you can look back even further not to a film that we've covered %HESITATION on similar deals but there's films from the twenties and thirties and even our earlier that you have representations of queer people I know G. T. Q. plus people that are coded in a way as to run around the Hays code and other restrictions set up time so that's another one on another one and talk with that is %HESITATION some like it hot is another great one that we really talked about gender politics and the representation of gender on the screen and you know you can trans gender issues as well so that was really fascinating there's a couple films that we really talk about I mean we talk about happened one night with %HESITATION classicism and economic strife between the classes and how we really see what America was at post depression or during that depression up post freshen during the depression and how people were trying to travel across country for work they were having this depressed but jolly positivity at the same time when the scene that they're on the bus and then you also have gender politics and that within our %HESITATION Peter tries to hail a cab and you have very sexist but what some people could say as empowering to the female characters in the story is the whole almond hedge my dress up just to reveal man I get the car right away he's my sexuality as a power kind of grab %HESITATION in a way so yeah those are a couple examples that I could really think of right now especially how can I forget this one citizen Kane as well I know I keep talking about it but you know the ideas of especially right now billionaire's having all this power people like Charles foster Kane having all this power and how you can clearly relate to a lot of major political and economic figures today how do you treat the world around them when in actuality a lot of it was down to childhood trauma and issues that they weren't you know loved enough or they weren't you know that kind of thing where we really have to look at everybody from a human perspective whereas you know a lot of people can deny this as well but we need to look at like what happened and why they are the way that they are today maybe we can empathize maybe we shouldn't empathize at all so there's a lot of different issues there that we can really delve into yeah tellingly the medium %HESITATION kill a silent just based at one time I think no no definitely not we need a lot we need we need to there's a lot of issues going around with that media moguls and how they control the media or who who controls the media really and how different points of view and perspectives are pushed out rather than held against an iron door so they don't get pushed out we'd love for you to be part of the conversation with AP cultures called on Instagram Facebook and Twitter and we also have discord I mean you say you go back in history and you talk quite a bit about that and then %HESITATION and I think it you've already answered this question gives you you've said to your your interest and some quite dove tails without minutes remaining so I mean what was that attracted G. T. ng film reviews and writing some reviews as well as costing from northeast not sort of work it was just something that I was I've just been always passionate about %HESITATION writing really kind of came as an accident when I was working at %HESITATION actually I went to an event at the American Irish Historical Society in New York I'm very involved with %HESITATION the actual unity in New York especially the new York Catholic association and %HESITATION I actually pointed out it was twenty sixteen so is the year of %HESITATION you know the hundredth anniversary of the nineteen sixteen star rising in Dublin and %HESITATION I was just there you know as a friend to support my friend who is %HESITATION that kind of she ran the offense at the American Irish Historical Society I was just pointing out to somebody a couple that didn't really know about Irish history because I study that a lot my grandfather really got me into it when I was a young kid %HESITATION talking about the different you know people of the past with the B. Patrick Pierce or Tomasz McDonough or you know the signatories are even people little later Tomasz mix we need people like those %HESITATION figures of the past during the Irish revolutionary period and then I just point out this is a copy of the nineteen sixteen Easter Rising proclamation like a legit copy of it and then somebody noticed that Hey this kid knows what he's talking about so I started working for a mini truck McConnell she %HESITATION is from Donegal which is where my family's from in Ireland and %HESITATION which is not too far from where you're from I just found it interesting and I found the history so like I was so passionate about it and I started working within that field and she had connections with an Irish America magazine so I started working there %HESITATION as an editor and writer assistant editor writer covering all across the board of history the Gaelic athletic association's events that covered events meet a podcast for them %HESITATION where I wanted to make this deep dive into history and how it is still relevant within the Irish American kind of culture today %HESITATION which unfortunately is a lot of older people %HESITATION rather than younger people being passionate about it there's a lot of younger people only to see Patrick Stanley it's you get drunk your crazy for a guy and that's about it not really knowing where their families from or the history of it you know people inappropriately saying things about the irate and things like that which yeah it's too much of an issue %HESITATION ignorance lies on those kind of histories and I think it's something that I just kind of fell into because it was a passion for me there was a film critic there called ka hor of Dougherty who really really pushed me into going into film reviewing %HESITATION she actually had a lot of connections within New York kind of film screening circles so he actually got me a %HESITATION an invitation to %HESITATION the Stan and Ollie and all the screening and ever since I was a kid I watched on March the when soldiers are based in Thailand and that that has such a head likes to massive impact on my life %HESITATION every single year I get a nutcracker because of that movie my parents gave me a cracker because I thought the soldiers in the movie were real the whole story is that for those that don't now stand Ali laurel hardy %HESITATION play %HESITATION toy makers and sans workshop they were asked to create six hundred soldiers and a foot high instead they made a hundred soldiers at six foot high they defend the land of toy land from %HESITATION the boogeyman and %HESITATION I thought they were real such a call can you please can you please give me M. long story short my parents you know Santa Claus got me a nutcracker that's probably about this tall I'm about three or four feet and ever since then you know I've been obsessed and watch it every year so there you go early Hollywood's influence a young young age yeah so from there I started doing my own things on YouTube they are not very good there's one that is okay decently I would probably need to re edit it it's about how Lawrence of Arabia really sets up people's intrigue with showing his death at the beginning of the movie and then later on you're gonna see the whole arc of his life within the military and his experiences in the desert and you see all the different perspectives of all the people that worked with him throughout the film and that really builds intrigue to start later twenty forty nine and you know things from there and it's just been growing I'd like three hundred seventeen subscribers as of right now and never did I think that I was gonna get that far yeah it's I mean I just I've always enjoyed I think the first film that probably son Peters was Toy Story and that from there was probably after that the first live action film last Sunday there's a Star Wars and %HESITATION I got so excited that apparently I was screaming crying and going nuts in a theater singing with me was the coolest thing in the world that I almost got my and and like four five nine because it's my brother kicked out of the theater so it's always been there and it's just like with this kind of steady build into something that I've always been passionate about history as I sat I always wanted to know what the why and how about a lot of people in who they were and and that and you know I just going to deep dives on wikipedia is and then go into the kind of academic resources and things like that so it's something that just has been a slow build over my whole life I mean I remember watching you know the Oscars when the lord of the rings trilogy %HESITATION came out that was something that really really changed my whole world about filmmaking and thinking about film and watching behind behind the scenes of those movies it was something that just you know developed a long lifelong passion for film and wanted to know why the why the how and who behind the scenes I really can appreciate that curiosity I have a very similar curiosity as well let's just say end up starting from quite formally those are all things that I've really always encouraged some students said today as well %HESITATION so it is ready cartons me that someone right there does that because it can be quite difficult to capture the students of the subjects should be that carried us and check to make those things up I've always said that even just credit sequences are gold mines of information my gosh yeah like a it notes interviews like I look at those a line like we eat that person did this one of my favorite like phone taxes that some of the greatest films of all time written by like the scene two or three people he had like I think it's Robert bolted Lawrence of Arabia he was a part of it's a wonderful life he was a part of the on so many other great films that he did I know I only need to but when you look up Robert ball and see what the credits you Dan it's amazing but no one knows his name because of you know the house un American activities kind of idea %HESITATION event that happened and how a lot of communists and leftists were completely shunned from Hollywood including him I mean you had another great example is Dalton Trumbo and how he did Spartacus and all these other great sounds but you have to find the little details within those stories and that's how you find it through the credits through wouldn't eat different Matt paintings in the background of Star Wars or the special effects artist with more the rings any circus you know how these things all connect one of the great examples of old Hollywood is Conrad vite people don't talk about him and now he's one of the greatest actors film actors of all time look at his demography the cabinet of Dr Caligari the man who laughs still me his face is still making an influence on our popular culture today nearly almost I think he's almost you know it would have been close to his hundredth birthday or something like that by now he also did a casa Blanka she is so super influential within our society in popular culture today in what is known as the you know upper echelon of filmmaking and storytelling I think that's really fascinating how there's still so many names that have not been talked about enough within some meeting in you know in a way I I hope to bring those people little bit more to light even though we are talking about those bigger kind of people for the majority of the time it's great I think anything that can redress the %HESITATION reassures that have happened because there were a lot more women involved in filmmaking and people realize similarity years most film editors are women a lot of screen writers for women but there their names were changed her masculine I used a word they just aren't included in the crowd at seems to always look at what's missing as well as with fire I thank ray and you talk about women I mean some of the earliest like we wouldn't have the %HESITATION the color version of %HESITATION the way I still do not add a trip to the moon we wouldn't have that because it was all women hand cleaning every single frame that film that's why it still colorized today and then you also have you know a form more updated reference you know talk about Lawrence Arabia Andy Coates who worked until what was a couple years ago before she unfortunately passed she was working on so much influential sounds I mean she is the one that basically created the famous cut most famous cut one of most famous transitions of all time with Lawrence of Arabia where he has the match he blows it out and you just see the beautiful sunrise across this vast desert wasteland there were so many especially I mean when you look at even earlier in the nineteen tens nineteen twenties nineteen thirties a lot of famous directors especially comedy directors were female and it's really really fascinating to see how people want to have that focus today there's another %HESITATION northern Irish %HESITATION my god I can't member's name film kind of historian director that did a whole series about women and stuff and I think it's on criterion %HESITATION mark cousins yeah markup that's done talking about yeah that's on talking on mark cousins great great series on that I started watching that %HESITATION a couple months ago and I was like oh my god they're just so much good history here and there's so much good kind of representation here more people should know about it Kitty here do I feel like we should we should chat again because I thought I'd love to hear more about your experience as an Irish American personally this is something that's come up in the podcast a few times you know where I've found and I've had a cast on and it turns out they have a wealth of Irish history Souchez Donovan but also carry roots he is a film historian and he's %HESITATION from the asset and that he's he left and Belfast for a long time and he taught me a film studies actually here's one of my lectures at queen's high school and he's just written masses and masses and masses backseat just he spent for my tastes and the machine he's written loads by RD horror and RT at American horror he said he's a huge fan of Bela Lugosi and he's right back has traces of the state but he's also written quite a lot of fights Irish American cinema show he might be somebody in assets and and the king and say he's one of those people he's a he's a take make sure you know I think he's got Cherokee and them but he's also got Irish in him and you know he's already been there and one person so Gary's pretty fascinating yeah I'd love to it really keep in touch and they can stop it mark have covers you the diaspora is is so interesting I mean I'm technically yes I asked for it in a way nice while living in England %HESITATION and it's also really kills me to hear that you're from all star specifically yeah my family's from down low and so one of the %HESITATION way way you know isolated places and it's actually great grandparents that come from Ireland and %HESITATION my grandfather was just always super passionate about and telling me about it and then you know I started I went to study gone twenty thirteen and %HESITATION %HESITATION yeah twenty thirteen I absolutely you know love the place want to learn Irish %HESITATION I know a little bit of Irish myself just always this fascinating history and you know to see the sports and how intertwined it was within the culture and you know being someone that's been you know part of the G. A. community for the last almost nine ten years which is insane to think about it's a really interesting to see especially within you know the context of America and to see how there's almost this kind of like secret world within America within Ireland and people that have absolutely no connection to Ireland or any Celtic or %HESITATION Gaelic type of representation really fascinates me and how they just cling on to win we had %HESITATION I live in a pretty urban area and we had a lot of you know African Americans we had Hispanic Americans we had a lot of kids because I I started a %HESITATION hurling club at my university and we had a lot of like we'd probably the most diverse team and it was so fascinating to see like how these people just so attracted diverse cultures without even you know noting that they're all part of the whole lineage of you know what is it four thousand years history within politics societal issues and things like that that are baked in within that culture that are peaking within their sports as well so it's really really fascinating Z. the Irish American experience over here and how to see it and within the lines of the GAA but also within the minds of as a growing up I like really was interested in my history kind of prescribed and on my or Scottish miles so you know I was very interested in those people's on in the relation to British history medieval history as well so it was something that just like was something that's you know I'd be so passionate about and I just want to delve deeper I've I I talked at the Irish consulate things like that so like I did that kind of stuff and I wanted to do like branch out to more things I can sound because it was again it was something that I was always super passionate about and some that I just loved and wanted to like learn more about and educate myself and you know I was already doing the reviews so I was %HESITATION doing stuff all all along and I just wanted to know more and help other people no more because you know as a kid you're you're somebody that and I'm sure you do the same thing you watch older son how many times did you get made fun of for watching older phone L. and like it I mean we you talk about the next generation have you talk about that and like I I know I think I saw somewhere on your one of your social media to get far skate around and things so you know how it felt when people lie like put you down on stuff and you know whether it be for me it was like a lot of my our stuff as well as because you know I live in a town that was mostly Italian Americans or convert to keep their kids and things like that and they were very fiercely in right very rightly proud of their heritage well you know that could be also a whole conversation about %HESITATION about different ideas about nationalism and things like that our cultural nationalism or whatever but growing up liking twenty years ago lord of the rings and fast way to eighteen you know fifteen to eighteen years later everyone's obsessed the game of thrones it's like come on guys you gotta you gotta catch up on the cool stuff here but %HESITATION you know it it's something that I wanted to help other people to realize this is something that has clearly you know made it Denton impact within our current generation of filmmakers and actors why was that a thing why are these references coming up now and how are these were and where did these references come from so I want to educate people I want to have people know more about film and I want to have conversations with people that would have never looked at this thing before and really say to them like this is something good you're missing out on it let's get into it and see how it relates to us so we can be more relevant to you and so it's just a friendly and so that I don't forget to say C. H. and if you ever get to go back to Ireland and do you ever get to see travel more around all star and she check out the %HESITATION Sir American folk park yep you will laugh at I've heard of life heard a lot about it working with the Irish America I think they actually have like a kind of a deal with them I have never been said Northern Ireland never been there I'm sorry I'm saying the north because all my friends and I'm like I gotta stop doing that I got I got I have to get out of the the whole kind and because a lot of them are obviously you know directly tied to a lot of different movements yeah I definitely need to go live hi friends and Jerry as well so I definitely need to like take a trip out there anyway I mean I'm going right through there anyway from Dublin to go to Donegal so I definitely need to check out a lot more stuff and it's something that %HESITATION you know I need to delve into more of definitely because I do love the medieval parts I love the nineteen twenties no I I have I'm hesitant to dealing with like more of the sixties through you know the ninety stuff because it is often it is very hard and very very difficult there are a couple films you know that I'm like like I put off watching hunger for a long time as like stuff I don't that's very intense especially with somebody that has that kind of connections and has close personal some people that I now within family had this personal like kind of story so it's something that's very fascinating to me as someone that is removed from that history with and because our family came over here in the nineteen twenties so yeah I just definitely want to learn more and like educate myself and again watching films like I I saw %HESITATION the navy is film already who is it yeah that means I think it was called with them I'm a guy came into the main actors name but %HESITATION I saw that premiere at the American premiere there and it was just really interesting to see how it block was run and how all that stuff was like really fascinating so and that's why I like I I found your work so fascinating because I want to see how those experiences are expressed through filmmaking because you know some I have books and nice things that are you know some of them are biased some of them are not because they are historical books and you know they try to be unbiased as much as they can you know I want to look at multiple perspectives rather than one perspective that I'm clearly being around to constantly with the GAA and other places as well so it's really fascinating to see all the perspectives and to see where people came from and why people are doing things especially now with and and this is getting a talking point within the next couple weeks or months with Kenneth Branagh as Belfast found unlike very hesitant on that film I think it's amazing that Kenneth Branagh is going back to his roots of being from Belfast in Northern Ireland I think it's really fasting because I had no idea that he was I was like why are you kidding like this guy's supposed to be like the English and the English because of his connections Shakespeare when he's really not liking I think there's a B. B. C. kind of thing that he didn't very early on I was like that then the price on yeah exactly yep yep that's lazy exactly like wow this is so strange and he's been a patron of the lyric theatre in Belfast for many many years he's never really gone away he has kept a hand on the knee does keep going back you know he's never really been behind the door I think it was when he was a teenager or something or when he went to England for university you know you get a crop K. thank you for having the socks and especially when the conflict with some so and he changed pretty quickly but that's what happens a lot back then I'd almost forgotten about that some yes some great looking for it's like minutes I know exactly what you mean because it's painful and yet it's still a mystery you know it's very ambivalent feeling I have and especially spending so many years studying what type of phone my PhD studies were you know they were the love of my life and yet they nearly killed me you know it was very strange and your apps that they have it's really refreshing to hear you talking about this multi stage because it's very much a quite literal history see no they're going very very slippery but you know what if you if you ever wanna watch any of those kinds of films and you want it to something else like this were re recorded chat about the need be so welcome not that lovely wonderful I'd love to see that you have for chassis very welcome back so before I forget this is well hello dear listeners where they can find more about you where the contestants and the millennials plug all your stuff yeah my %HESITATION my website is D. Liu movie review dot com I know it's a lot D. A. L. E. W. movie review dot com you can find all the podcasts I've done whether the Irish America similar deals my you tube channel please subscribe to my YouTube channel I would be more than glad if anyone subscribe even if it's just one person I'm just trying to get my voice out there trying to get you know the ideas that I think are very important to the world and more people should listen to put across in those %HESITATION videos and I think it's just something that I want to have a bigger community of people that I can really delve into about filmmaking about films relationship with history and history strong relationship found and you can find similar deals on pretty much every podcast provider every podcast kind of platform adobe Spotify Google apple podcasts you can find it on anchor you can find it pretty much anywhere I would be so glad to see people in a really talking about more more classic films and I really appreciate you having me on thank you so much I love this conversation now I'm so glad you asked I really enjoyed chatting to you always enjoyed chatting to dance and I hope that this is the second of many many many times I hope they enjoy your company okay too thank you so much it's so nice to say that

Audiovisual Cultures episode 108 – 2021 End of Year Guest Showcase automated transcript

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hello and welcome to see this twenty eight twenty one and if you're gassed showcase we made it very another year we had some really fantastic guests here on audio visual cultures through quite the past year whether you've recently joined us or you're just here for the good parts this recap of highlights is free a I'm Paula Blair and in making audio visual cultures I investigate a wide range of areas and audio visual media and the creative industries these include cinema television streaming live performance music audio production and the visual arts and much more anything you can think of that might be considered audio and or visual culture that's what we're in today so the issue has been going since March twenty eighteen and we've covered a lot of topics since then in the past year I've re branded the podcast opened its own dedicated YouTube channel and have been learning more and more ways of making improvements and sign quality editing my performances and interfere and communicator on how to get the show right there and better ways are incredible patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures have been instrumental and supporting all that work and I can keep going but cite them and there are loads of exclusive extras and early releases on pitching on so please stay find a satire and consider giving regular support to sustain and improve this show fires are our hosts a cast have also been tremendous and offering training and tools to facilitate marketing in rage so banks thanks to them as well if you follow AV cultures part on the socials you may have seen this year Spotify rocked three which we learned we've been dying noted in twenty two two countries in the past year which I'm really bowled over by I am I'm just so grateful anyone's listening a toll but the idea that strangers and countries I've never been to your last thing not so exciting and I'm really grateful massive thanks to everyone where ever and higher for your last name we've got more great things coming your way and twenty twenty two so I really hope you stick with us for the rest of this episode we're going to go through some highlights of twenty twenty one we hit the ground running and January with two fascinating discussions with filmmaker Justin McAleese and urban planner missed office Shareef was both in different ways talking about storytelling hopefully when you get on sat a lot of your decisions are already made because you've made them with the producer the director or the writer whoever happens to be in your you know what you're trying to accomplish and I mean really that's what it comes down to it's not like oh what do I want to do in this situation that's like very forced tear sort of concept you want to be like what serves the story what will help the director accomplished the most amount of information in the least amount of time it really that's what you're trying to do David Fincher American director has a quote you know like basically my job as directors deciding what information to give out when and that's really what directing is about and and by proxy that's what cinematography is about is putting people with a sense of what the context is what the vital information about a frame is in where to leave their eyes and how to feel about it so consciously without even attempting to tell them why do you feel about a certain way with the actors of the dialogue or the action or any of that stuff just like you know one second and you're like oh I get what this is when when I was young and now may bind to hold but anyway so I I'm listening to Ted talk on YouTube I was very inspired by that and it what makes it Ted talks special is the way they tell the story it's not like a lecturing university or a TV program that's why it's so special and I was like okay but how about mixing this kind of story is and then the plot casting and urban planning and also L. like after work are you doing I am part of statics Stockholm team and what we do is like I do content researching medical select co coaching people how they talk and giving feedback about their speech I was trying to combine that not makes a boring lecture and not to like sort of stand up comedy or something you know I want something like as a how white would love to listen to we all know that's it why we like TV shows and seriousness as a storytelling like it's art and culture is about storytelling so I wanted to do with the podcast says something like this like this format is not going to be like a feeling that you're in the police station like a question and answer you know like okay what's your name what do you do what's your project because there are many puts us like this and when you hear when you listen to them you you feel sometimes bad for the kids to be back home but give him some time to briefing notes express himself or something like this so I decided and I tried my best to that leave the platform open to the guest because it's not like Mustafa sherry fair podcast it's urbanistic out and ideal for many suggest that people are the storytellers because I'm listening to them and learning I can start my own show and talk but today most urbanised case listening and learning because this is the goal every guest is the storyteller I just leave them to talk just like how you doing now like you just you know leave the flow and that's always a good flow when you give people the the freedom to express themselves and always I don like control so much for the questions just like a main questions and then see what happened because in the end what comes from heart ghost others people's hearts so it says that there is like it and aim why I say the guess is a storyteller because the format of the ports gas is a kind of story to inspire us because the aim in the end it's about us getting inspired by people and hopefully we transform this inspiration to actual action in our offices when we really work with the projects in February I had the great pleasure of connecting with artists and performers Shay Donovan hello we got into some tough topics there was a lot of joy and positivity and her approach to working online during Oct nine part of my philosophy a little bit here has been to kind of resist adapting existing work to the digital space which I see a lot of people do beautifully and I think there's a need for that and that's a great way to exercise practice that that's your you know what you're feeling called to do but I think for me what I've been enjoys creating work specifically within these restrictions like being very intentional about embrace those restrictions and those obstacles and maybe mine them for a different way of making work rather than trying to adapt my normal practice within the constraints of the digital space I've been enjoying creating collaborating in new ways just in fun March was a bumper Munson database three fantastic episodes as well as celebrating the podcasts third anniversary with a special offer on P. Treon and freshening up the branding I had a great time talking with artist Clinton Kirkpatrick then producer towards MMN archer Katrina Michaels I'm production manager tab appeared safe from all duties entertainment followed by filmmakers large hand rakes and Nissan R. A. can here's Clinton toss could train at Debra Larson Nissan talking about creating characters and world building yes it's kind of like for me you know there is a lot of I realized a lot of hard storytelling and even one during the line of my research and my own destinations like all right Bach to your soul G. S. and then within the solar cheap what creation myths are I'm actually in the process of investigating various creation myths that have existed throughout human history in all different cultures what I'm doing is I'm checking pieces of the box you know whether it is modern day creation mess or Egyptian creation myths or whatever creation method is misty slow characters to come into my work I've read this creation myth recently where you these logs all from the sky and they create this ball you marshy area and then from this the first Youmans cute today I'm just like this is the right way you know it is the heart of storytelling heart arts for me that is my work is people look at my work and I'm like what is not or your moderator I listen to it all over the years really care either but it's like I listen to it all but I always think if you take the time any artist we have to see what they're doing to walk to invest it up but certainly for me when you start to investigate what might work as smaller practices there is a whole lot where you know there's a whole lot of world's arms you know hello world see arms there's a lot more still to come you know when we created this to really give it that immersive experience we asked all of our performers not only bring their characters to life but bring their characters to reality in the fact that we asked for Facebook pages to be created or Instagram accounts or linked in or you know we wanted to give them an online presence that our audience could go and find these characters in the real world each of their characters has a website that is dedicated to their characters professional backstory so for those audience members that want to really go down the rabbit hole to really explore their opportunities to find hints of these characters living in the on the internet so and I know between you've got some fun stories of guests that have reached out to you but I want you to speak if you can the creation process of trying to help build this character not just when you are on stage for that hour and a half but that lives in the real world I mean it was a fascinating experience to me because I am used to the rub us %HESITATION for instructing my character based on the clues in the tax and healing back to the technical in this case I'm creating the taxed the text is nearing it's it's very it's a flip of that kind of process but the exciting thing about being engaged in that creation is that you know the material so well my carrot so what's in the box and I can rattle off the drinks menu and like you know when in doubt to give extra Fulda to rely on and I have a lot of fun my car is a mystery themes box so I got to come up with the most terribly punny names such as the George all Mancini on the picture of Dorian gray Bruce Rankin steam %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION bill and I have so much fun and so then I can make a game throughout the show all kind of assigning a signature cocktail to aghast and you know that he's here a lot had to go back to you it's fun and it's it is interesting having online presence with the character of I've had people reach out to me through my character my keys Instagram and I think Jim would leave like they think I am ninety there are elements of me he and Maggie had but I've not bought Tenda musician on the lot I got but it's it but it's really like someone was asking when my next gig was and I was like I mean but we've actually from my apartment that that okay it's funny how it's fabulous it's state like how much they invested in the lead in the wild and I think having those clients to you you know we have like will also %HESITATION connected on social media and things and having this carrot to how those elements as well grounds %HESITATION as a human one of the videos of my characters Instagram is me playing accordion and I haven't you know people reach out to me asking about the accordion which I will always happily talk about you know it's a great way to connect and %HESITATION I find like I did it creates another layer of emotion about it integrates in that technology even beyond the shot we had a really robust writing team when you're first coming up with this I mean we all kind of sat around a table are set into meetings just trying to like nail down the concept nail down the story you know we had thirty plot points that came and went and then the amount of research we have an entire told that talks about all of these libraries these historical libraries that are actual actual places you know they had actual significance in history and we had to pull all of that material just so that we could get back home to the performers so that when they had that fodder to keep pulling from as well but we didn't you know Todd night we we didn't just great this it was such a collaborative effort we were getting materials every day I remember you know our writing team would send us a draft of one scene it while at the same time somebody would send me a draft a character you know like Katrina would send me at the bar menu you know and then the next day somebody else send me a song I think between even wrote an entire song it had a clue it fell by the wayside as we change the gameplay my hustle but I once long and then there's another song that carries with links to another one who's a history teacher %HESITATION and I needed to see that was a pneumonic device about the toll limit and I up it's working credible it's all about last so it's gonna be talking I will I will pay you know and during the pandemic which is been such a time of you know we've all had to go inside of our bubble right a lot of us were missing that creative outlet so I think that pulling in all of these performers and what not to and allowed everybody to find a quick creative outlet in a time where were all very frustrated because we can't live our not our lives as normally as we want right so I don't even think we asked people with some of the stuff that got created you know I just said Hey could you have a little ditty because I think that Maggie you know I think a tree to your character and this other character they know each other and they went to school together or something and next day I have a page long twelve verses of the Ptolemaic empire you know so like it really gave us all a chance to be really creative you know and push the boundaries of how can we keep telling stories in a new imagine of way and just make everybody laughs because everything is so twenty twenty right then we did this D. I. Y. A. thing again with a little more budget this time via %HESITATION worked for an acting school we worked with their students on a movie together based on on their character vicious because we your last and me we are also from the acting department so we could work with that and we are making films we could work with that so the second movie with the together %HESITATION was also on many many festivals and was %HESITATION sorry how do you say and that his English is better than it was discovered it was discovered from a release Emmons and you have to write it really is %HESITATION %HESITATION yes get released in the U. S. yes it's behind bars yeah the Blu ray yes SRS and I'm also I was really proud of that and really happy about it the second movie is about seven girls in the pharmacy and then maybe %HESITATION cherished florist so it's it's kind of fantastical but very very subtle and it was the first time for us that we've worked with a non sambal and those were seven girls who were like in their twenties early twenties early twenties they were just finishing drama school not so easy but it was fun and it was also it for us we learned a lot to work with a big group I work very closely with the actors four of them M. when we were developing Leon I think and you said and I had just started hanging out again and I don't know I I was thinking about how to do a lo fi science fiction project that was still having it was still dreaming about getting into cinemas and making something that that woods translates to a wider audience so I was thinking about how how can I use John ready to do that that was on my mind and then I think we just had a really long conversation about death because that's the fun guy I am I basically just took that conversation which was really long and turned it into a script so that would be these two characters in that center which I think I because Nissan and Leon is not me but that would be a lot of the stuff in that that we had discussed that's how that sort of came about so so so I in that sense worked with Nissan to come up with it all and then %HESITATION for back it means and later permeates actually we started working with this acting school like Nissan said I was a teacher about and I get sort of bored with teaching acting and not doing anything so I started developing characters with the students I had originally planned this was Nissan's idea to to make short films with them so they could use that all the demo reels and and in case of the beckons group we quickly realized all right this is not the short film this is possibly a future and %HESITATION yeah I mean they came up with that characters had different exercises to improvise and to come up with characters intuitively plus with characters that would fit them and would be what they would need in the demo rear to %HESITATION and then what I would have them improvise with each other and come up with scenes and then slowly we would all see all right this is a possible setting like all the characters you came up with would probably do community service at some point they're all pretty antisocial and then we would support the characters and situations together and see how do these incorrect and then we would think all right you too make an interesting committed you'll so let's think about that and I think we had half a year it was really luxurious and our kids bed hobby yelp of just playing around and then I would go and they have seen all the stuff they would have come up with themselves and then I would just read the script according to that and %HESITATION mid was more compressed with the next thing we did with that school with over many ex but it's really similar to it then we may do a web series together also called the acting students we worked a lot with that school to find out projects where we would have them improvise all the dialogue on sets and I would just go okay now that thing you said was funny do that again so yeah from this very close work with the actress the characters and I look I think I mean I like that and I like the results yeah me too we got musical in April with host of the world fusion show Derek Jordan and me session down he's he talked about modeling Siri and lasts an ideal locked on circumstances we used to do live improvisations when I was working at B. C. T. V. N. properly but because the lock down it's been closed so we've done various workarounds one is that I will get my artists to record a solo video of them playing and then I will basically play along with that and try to pretend that's life sometimes well depending on how good I'm able to do that you would think it is live a lot of the times most the time see I seem to be able to pull that off but now that we're in lockdown mode I stopped doing the live or this kind of improvisation over top with her video the new format that I'm using is just taking pre recorded videos from my casts %HESITATION and that's been the last few shows just because I wanted to keep the show going I felt it was more important to keep the show going so I'm not doing a live music right now but we'll get back to it I mean things will open up again we'll be able to do that again but we have great audio engineer and we have three cameras at BCTV so its quality is very high somewhat limited now more at my soon calls but it's still fun and it's still I get to showcase these fantastic artists and I feel like the workaround is better than not doing the show it also I'm just trying to keep everything going forward what has your lock sign experience pain as a musician well in this league panic those laws my money is gone for more than a day most welcome and I'm still going to a new routine so I thought well this is a fun clothes look on as the %HESITATION I have the rest of my life %HESITATION gig of the form and %HESITATION you know we'll be doing it when I'm eighty the way in the out to the local public realm panicking so you take him two years out three years out even I've seen it all but in the grand scheme of things is not nothing too big so I thought well a mother trying you last time I have to try to be as productive as I can be and %HESITATION flex new muscles reading when you do a loss against you and you end up just being all of heart and soul of %HESITATION during the same thing all the time is is so can be very relentless off from twenty three I've done lot tunings here pretty much solid for the past ten years so that's my target I'm sorry it's good to kind of step wife not really in the cry of them wrote music and talking to people %HESITATION AA or podcasts and training people is good you can't convert them selves in in a frying pan lot harder and musician or filmmaker will put costs social media personal really bubble as things went quiet people that is very cold for what you do not tell you what you should be creative and try and log me off my music but I see a above that mediates its to me to be cry if it's an issue of free lost all lock and navigate myself that's more important to me they're not you play music as much as I love playing music well hello I lost all the Arkham controlling BB king mackerel basically nothing my strife people strive for that because it all has no point being in a high jump playing music well %HESITATION on paper they sound amazing but the end of the day you're welcome to somebody else in your control involvement %HESITATION which is always good we went stateside in may with a fabulous catch up with my old pal from queen's university Belfast Dr Gary Rhodes and my new friends fellow arts podcaster Neeson rocklands can you remind me so happily of my arrival in Ireland but also so I try to be unflappable that's impossible and one of the spookiest moments and not a horror film spooky but I guess you'd say nervous moments was when I walked in to teach that course because I felt a little out of place not only is it immigrate myself and living in another country for the first time but I felt I felt a little %HESITATION I would never want to be seen presumptuous in teaching a course on Irish cinema in Ireland I had taught Irish semi actually America previous a couple of times what I ate that was a bit nervous actually going in to teach all of you because I thought gosh I feel ill at ease real ill informed maybe you know to take all that long since as an American and in Belfast what I suppose my interest would be two fold in and one I think it started with horror and they're certainly these tremendous connections between horror and Ireland Irish literature Irish folklore from obviously the bean she threw a film I saw and I I don't think a lot of Irish film scholars I don't know that any of never really talked about it much but when I was ten twelve years old I I was in love with horror movies I was also in love with Francis Ford Coppola who directed the godfather films in Apocalypse Now and early in his career he had made a film called dementia thirteen race early nineteen sixties and it was a gothic horror story set in Ireland it was actually shot in Ireland and you know it's readily available on YouTube it's rather well known film in terms of cold blood studies because it was basically a second film but I think Irish film studies it's completely unknown connections go deeper I mean stoker was Anglo Irish they're such a great tradition of Irish gothic novels and as I grew my interest in horror I grew in my interest at heart literature as well as horror films so there's all these fantastic connections and Irish horror stories on film but the other thing to happen to me when I was a teenager was by about the age of thirteen and of course you know I grew up in the state of Oklahoma I grew up in a town that I will in American terms certainly most mmhm we probably consider small town twenty five thousand people I grew up in I guess I'm trying to think of the the best way to say it but it probably a and is a native American everything you know kind of a masculine type culture in terms or that parameters and so John Huston's films spoke to me greatly as a teenager his films like the Maltese falcon an African queen and these films with Humphrey Bogart who was one of the great cinema tough guys and you know his later films like the man who would be king with Sean Connery and Michael Caine and you know you can kind of see probably quickly understand maybe or or see that you know kind of okay a lot of his films in his life %HESITATION I became fast about Houston's life he was quite an explorer and hunter and you know very masculine and all that very much human waves kind of hit me way of twentieth century American cinema and he was deeply interested in Irish literature and by the time I was in high school he was making his film the debt based on choice and there was a credible documentary film made about it Houston and showed the behind the scenes footage showed in talking at length this is before the kind of making of featurettes we know today by by a large number some examples but they weren't it was before DVD it was before that cottage industry so to speak so I S. I became entranced by the time I was sixteen and seventeen I became entranced with James Joyce and the dead when Houston said in his mind it was probably the greatest short story ever written in the English language that spoke volumes to me the film version he made which I found to be quite faithful I'm talking at length for question and now maybe wearing what but my interest came from these different angles from horror as well as Joyce and then about that same time Beckett because I was also one of my other favorites as a teenager was a Buster Keaton and Samuel Beckett had made keeping film yeah you know later in king's life of course and and a kind of although guard film and I was I was also getting in transfer you know it's easy to romanticize thing when you're a teenager and I you know the passion for it all and I was and I was getting interested in basket because of then his work with Keaton and I was particularly intrigued because Kevin brown will have made this incredible documentary about Keaton and had forty two Keaton's saying you know you didn't even understand the film he made with that you know which I think yes he's one of the yeah exactly here is what the genius filmmakers in my mind he he said he didn't quite understand it but he liked packet and everything so I was coming in Ireland for all these different directions to conclude I would say that in the night you know in the nineteen nineties America really when their kids always had this love affair with Ireland is regrettable exceptions during some immigration periods baby in the nineteenth century and so forth but there's a lot of love affairs in in the later twentieth century certainly from you know everybody you know celebrating St Patrick's day to the nineties when the commitments particularly the film version you too there was a particular love affair with I mean it happened different times before in the sixties I think with JFK for a lot of people but in the nineties it was like it was Neil Jordan and Jim Sheridan's films were exploding onto the scene not my left footed one you know at the academy award and Chris I was graduating from high school and about to start university right at that moment then there's you too and I particularly fell in love like I heard it on the radio and I was driving I mean I remember the moment so clearly I was driving down I. forty in Oklahoma City are your state that runs around a lot of America and I'm burning down the highway in an old car the only one I could afford at the time I'm burning on the highway and this voice comes on the radio this ban what I didn't know the name and I had to ask a friend later that day who is singing this and it was the cranberry so you're gonna set but you know I heard including that kind of Irish weighed in at the end of the song which went from the Irish but meeting pop music even more Irish sound at the end of it just seem to speak to me in ways and again as a more romantic young person a romantic maybe more the German sense of that term my great grandfather was from Ireland scored so on Cherokee and mainly that but I'm you know I have a McCord whose family was actually from the north of Ireland even America from Cork and I had many once is a little tiny child very memories on more work well on all of that and so I had that connection to Ireland as well so forgive this long biography ladies that I fell in love with this and then I fell in love with an Irish woman who was in America and all roads lead you know what I had to leave but I had to leave and it was this tremendous love affair I cannot tell you how achingly I miss Carrickfergus one of my favorite places how much I've missed the Belfast city centre the people there there's so many Dunluce there were so many places I like to go and go repeatedly I just unending love affair there's nothing ever wrong with having back position with that stuff if you're not judging the culture around you then you're just being ignorant to whatever's going on and being ignorant not understand the culture is not going to nourish you as someone that appreciates the culture and you're being a producer like you know if you're going to make content you know make sure you make it was a good purpose I mean if you think you're producing the content these extra help culture one way or another %HESITATION by the stop you I think part of us being podcast assisting our podcast is preserving the cultural little bit so the way we're sort of helping with people understanding and analyzing the culture I'm sure you have it on several occasions I've gone back to like you know seeing how movies were like the fifties and sixties and seventies stuff and seeing the mentality that the world had then and see how different it is now well the stuff that we're making right now can you imagine what people you know twenty fifty a hundred years from now if they go back and find the stumble upon this L. as wow this is what their culture was like during this kind of situation and how much you wanna bet that like at least two or three generations from now people are gonna be curious on how people were during cove it there go back these podcasts and stuff be like wow this is how they got your cove it we talked about before but like you said it yourself would like the public access TV will you ever come back and see some of those old public access TV's and see just like how they did their stuff you know how they would set up their shows I get getting that look into like their realities and such you know like if we're watching like movies in the seventies some like that how much like the Cold War may have influence on the make certain movies and such like that's something that we're never going to experience but like as an analyst we can look back and how they're making movies in the seventies such realized okay this is how they got through the potential existential dread that they could die tomorrow from nuclear warfare going back to like the thirties and such seeing all those like the classic Looney Tunes and such are like the classic cartoons where they they influence are they inspire people hate you should go to war or you should help people you know it invest in the military in such as nail if you go back like that's how they got through the potential jet that they could be aerated by Germany tomorrow you know that's something to help them yeah as an analyst you're always going to be looking back and so we're making stuff right now that other analysts chemistry look back on then it's going to benefit society at the in the day Jan was all about creativity with artistically week absent a K. eight slayer one artwork and doctor Rabaa Mikhail I researcher with University College London's community covert project definitely so I mean I can't say you know it's it's always been enjoyable and definitely being able to have people to do it because of Hobbs you know the office and the spectrum what people saw knocking down its costs awful and you know I want to start selling at comic conventions that was a really difficult time because you get like really hot streaks up point and then it's like oh you know like I'm I'm just here to sell like my outlook on the effort you know for minimalism issue some people are just unfortunate very nice I think you know especially when you are on the PP should always want to encourage people to us I've always believed in my positive reinforcement opposition positive like pushing people you know like I'm always happy to criticize someone in a positive way if someone says tell me everything that's wrong with this also well we'll bill as long as you let me tell you what's wrong with it as well but yeah it is great and also in Leeds as well one of the amazing conventions I mean it's most target now but fall festival thought was I could not festival and that was one of the first proper conventions I want Sir I used to go like religious in a best friend of must win sisterhood and offered them as well and but I'll go on just look all the emission outlook connection with plan for like Olean although she's all these amazing comic out as far as criminal we need to do this when you know any upon this of them would call themselves such an amazing time G. situation out work I actually met should should a lovely woman called Valentina and she ended up I think I'm ever at fault double on the gun shows at work was so inspiring that was another Austin's been amazing to me Schendel designing my first ever thought it was she designed it for men gosh you're so lovely she's helped with my outlook as well and she thought about what she moved back to Italy I like I miss all the time which moved up to a million and she still bought a shirt she was like and it only shows the only on the phone so so when all of a sudden jaw crusher men's and basketball advise yeah I think I think it's really important personally I try to match all the also Paul I don't and never will I mean I myself to forget about all of my friends so I do not stray if Boston Celtic forget also it works my hooks yeah I think especially if you wanted to start out just dole so critical of yourself that's probably adversity given to myself even non if all the advice because people think that have to be perfect straight away in a society where we feel we have to do everything right the first time it's not all I'm sure to give an opponent diminishes and shows a lot of people produce all the mission on this quiet Walmington on the people really thought about working for the sometimes I don't like as much like so many people out there think oh gosh you know you really really good tomorrow you know so hi Kim imposter syndrome will be all see some of the actions that we've been doing with participants have been around people's experiences of lock down their experiences of pandemic their experiences may be accessing subsidized or experiencing loneliness or isolation or the anxiety that comes with the pandemic and expressing that through all forms sorry we've run a couple of very very interesting workshops the bathroom is run by somebody called Marana he works with us he is actually PhD student he's whacking on interventions with people with dementia and say she doesn't so very interesting things such as embroidery said the mindfulness that comes with android jury analysts say the find my skills and you know everything that comes with doing this very very intricate and still full think for a long period of time hello webshop was on collage and we looked at how we might be able to express our feelings food medium of college and denied that might involve looking at lots of old magazines and you know dissipate pad over things that you might have lying around and looking at maybe what the newspapers and thinking about thinking about white why you're picking them out and say you know when you see somebody's collection piece of paper they might have used to set in color they might be used to set some pictures that might be sets and what's to bring the picture together save it might look like a complete mess of the picture it might not be completely as that sixty correct it might look wonderful that's beside the point well the points of the clutch is is to look at that and think how does this reflect my experience and in looking at reflecting my experience how do I tend to talk about my expense had I frame my experience and if I can have this old narrative around the experience then maybe I might be able to address the issues that come up during the experience for example my college in particular I happen and I thought this is very very interesting I was thinking why are you doing this myself my clutch looked at that Meghan and Harry into G. and I picked up pictures of Meghan and Harry and for some reason I also picked out what's that what to do with the interview was around understanding and telling my side of the story and your family and these kinds of things and and and I'm picking these things out and thinking why I picked these things out maybe I'm thinking about my family maybe I'm thinking about my %HESITATION laid the I. eight projects myself well the way that I am talking about how I experienced things and when you look at these and then you look at %HESITATION everybody's colleges and you ask everybody to talk about the colors you can see some very very very interesting stories you know you have about people's experiences and rather than sitting down and doing a traditional interview with somebody which we might do in reception you know it might be very very structured when you got somebody to express their opinion through the medium of all his meeting the college you might get a lot more rich states if not you might get a lot more interesting data from that goal you might get more of a glimpse of the passage rather than excessive structured ons is that they might want to tell you just to tell you save we won these elections just for that practice to understand how people have been experiencing quite a bit and that's one of the things that we've been doing is part of that committee got the project we will say it does not focus groups of people so we've spoken G. as well because they subscribe as in people that work in the community %HESITATION whacking intoxication and community people lacking in that close our teas and social activists and teachers to Austin about well what do you think of the various constipation what can we do to make these things much more accessible for people with what do you think of the other issues around what's happening you know on these patients stuff yeah and as well as that would diagnoses like traditional Quincy black which we have to take we headed back to the states in July for excellent conversations with Dr Charlie hole and palm Munter to talk about their newly published pics funny rules and feeding feed him what I would just really you know like to thank you again for giving me a chance to talk about my mom and to really promote the family rules book just so it's so important to those of us who have been care givers with people who suffered with Alzheimer's and dementia I understand that it's not easy in a row to be on we have to find ways we all have to find our own ways to get those memories back we know that our loved ones are not going to remember them no matter how much we want them to have moments when they'll remember them but they won't be the same and of those memories when they're stolen from you find a way to get them back in this was just my way of giving those memories back to my my children my grandchildren my brother and his family a way for them to kind of remember %HESITATION you know Graham on the way in which they wouldn't remember her normally yes and so now when you see and hear Fanny rules you'll know that I'm talking about my mom well when the power if you think about it I mean they're such a great strong you know conversation about that is the fact that here we have an individual with a twelfth grade U. S. education %HESITATION which means no college no formal education beyond that who is wise beyond her years I mean things that she would tell me one of those conversations that she would tell me is about being mediocre she says don't be mediocre don't be lukewarm just want to be hot you want to be called she said because mediocre is just a block and it just settles for whatever and so I took that message and I think crafted into this one and it's that mediocre settles to the bottom and complains about the view and I never wanted to be a person who complained about the view I wanted to celebrate the view and so she would also tell me that I could be anything I wanted to be so if you want to understand how I can actually move from this or town in West Virginia and I actually received two post graduate degrees end up with a PhD you know all of this is because the fact that this woman said I can be whatever I wanted to be but whatever I wanted to be be the best of it that I can't and she didn't put any parameters on it she said if you want to be a janitor you want to sweep floors she said that be the best floor sweeper there AS and Fannie told me that I needed to clean in the corners because she said it could floor sweeper will clean the corners because anybody can sweep in the middle %HESITATION I've been a feminist since I was about eight and try to get girls and the little league that was impossible back then so I'm hoping that it will ring that bell loudly this is what we do to women and what we've always done it women in this business and we need to rethink that %HESITATION because it's not worth it no people shelf life it shouldn't be a matter of shelf life it should be a matter of what they can contribute and for how long my publicist you telling me the lot of the people who are reviewing it are women so I would guess that's the natural audience I mean the subtitle is women of a certain age in Hollywood but I think anyone who is curious about how things work you don't have to be a film historian to be curious about how Harvey Weinstein could happen and video such an ogre for so many years how did he get away with that kill the casting couch she goes all the way back home it was on a normal accepted event info woman wanted to be up on that screen triggered a light on the couch first it was just %HESITATION unfortunately and given I don't know that that's true anymore I don't think it is certainly there are rules predators out there but it's not as widespread as it once was and I think anybody who cares about the issue will be curious about the stores at least I hope so it was fun to write because of the feminist background I I'll say that because I was a clinical psychologist for so many years I felt that I could get inside their heads and give the reader %HESITATION some idea about how women think about these things how they process that kind of a precedence and disappointment %HESITATION barrel aging process itself you know if we know some of them did pretty well without I think the strength of my writing is always the internal dialogue it's not so much what happens is how the the woman processes the information and that was extremely fun to write because I think I know more about that probably than anything having been in practice so many years I took some time off in August and released some back up material while I was away from the computer June and July were really busy with recordings and normal service resumed with guests focusing on positivity and creativity respectively Dominic Sam and Daniel Hass hi Michelle younger generation because I'm pretty all right now I'm I'm around forty rise hotels and I can see people young so things like that so that's what I want to say and I want to tell people of course is not good to hear it sometimes the younger people feel like it's that nagging your nagging me right now I'm gonna want to bring it out it either more reality form that this things that's happened it happens to everyone so I want to talk about it happens to everyone we cannot hide it we can we have to break break through the wall and share it the man is difficult for me like for example it's hard for me to show my feelings to my wife sometimes she said you know you don't hold my hands anymore than that %HESITATION why don't I hold my hold on the hold is in well I don't know why it's just it's not like I'm I'm a touchy feely kind of guy you know it's hard to open up sometimes so doing this part because actually helped me as well because I feel like if I do good out there good will come back if I motivate people I will motivate myself as well just like there was a a youtuber dive was watching the other day he told us he said everyone has the same amount of time in the week what we do in that time brings a success %HESITATION differs between different people so if I wake up in the morning the first thing I do is I look at myself on and go to Instagram or whatever instead I could have used that if you know a few seconds and morning when I wake up look in the mirror and say I'm gonna do well today so in that actually brings a little bill impact to your own life and two into anyone's life right or if you're if you're a kid and you in the house if you wake up in the morning instead of going down there say Hey mom what's for breakfast you could say Hey mom good morning right Houston well things like that I mean there's just one tiny thing that can actually bright as a person's life but if my kid if you wake up the monies that had that good morning %HESITATION I feel good you know I feel good and not not a whole good but still good right in just one step up on once they would build upon upon just one tiny happen as a but not happen this eventually I feel like eventually everything will fall into place and everything will picks up from there see details like this the seven habits habits it's been an interesting Sir journey for man and not some space because like I said it was really my my good friend do is a lot more in depth with film I've always grown up watching films and really enjoying cinema but for me it was wasn't something I really thought about getting into what was interesting was I feel like what I sort of looked back and found with everything is that for me personally I think that the storytelling aspect is really where I feel like I've always had the most deaths and success wins but I've always kind of struggled with the transition from page to screen as far as like visualizing what angle is to use and constraining myself to like okay fine but the tripod here with this sort of lands like this is a result I'm going to get I can't do it in my head so %HESITATION you know for a long time I I really was telling myself okay you know I really wanna do writing and directing and I can take on both but with the project that I did in twenty eighteen I really found that you know while I can do it and I can make it happen I feel like it's better for me to have the right people by my side that can actually translate what I'm writing better than even I feel like I can and again maybe that some kind of like weird mental hurdle which in ten years I'll figure out that like it's just me serve protecting myself from actually making the films as a director myself but at least at this stage in my life I'm sort of feeling like where I need to go with things is finding really good directors who can translate the writing and the way in which I can write the writing if that makes sense it's one of those things were as I'm writing something I only see it as kind of a stage play where is like everything just kind of a flat canvas and it's all sort of coming to life around me but I'm not seeing like you know okay when this person's talking like this if if I have this sort of camera movement or something like that none of that enters into my mind even the least bit I think with you know as time's gone on I just sort of made that mental jump so it's been nice because as I look back on everything a lot of the films that I've made or worked on you know I was either more is like as co directors somebody that was there just one set hoping things go smoothly you know maybe more as a producer or something like that and there's always been in my mind the best films that I've made with a good team and not one of those things where you know when I tried to make on I feel like they work and I feel like they have a good message to them but as far as how everything comes out on the screen there's not a lot of refinement you know I feel like I'm more of this let's just have a camera free flowing and stuff like that and that always just doesn't work as fast as it could for something that's just more visualized by someone who can make that transition more than I can in September %HESITATION do you drama producer boleh more help to celebrate our one hundredth episode entry nerd style with fascinating stories about adopting his father's literary works while also contributing to the advancement sent audio technologies and modes of production we then heard from Dr Fiona noble about her researching contemporary Spanish cinema I'm talking about alternative approaches to the academic so they I have to say mystically lucky in that I'm pretty good with the theory of things but not so good with the practice and so I have gained producer editor who is amazing %HESITATION figure out ways of executing the crazy ideas that I come up with and I had his passed away a few years ago but I have this wonderful wonderful engineer what you believe yourself to a stop not only was he triggered recordings but he could just build devices that hi imagine during you need to have the particular thing that we were talking about do you go back so I like working in stereo I like doing as much with the stereo space as I possibly can one of the hardest things was to figure you know do I want to block actors around in the stereo spaced and then somehow walk the production or the creation of sound effects in some way that tracks them and when you put all this stuff in the same recording board line up and sound like it's the same spot this isn't very difficult to do of course the more you utilize the stereo space the more difficult it is and I want to get really clean dialogue tracks I like to not worry about anything but the voices when I'm in the studio that's the only thing I want to deal with I record all my voice is moderate but I need a visual tracks they can be hand around the stereo proceeding on waste with both panting you know so panning and volume and a little bit of reverb to create you know are they from the back of a culture to use things like that but then how to make the sound effects follow rob so I was talking to Howard our engineer and there's some kind of a joke it's only funny to engineers I don't really understand it but they would make this joke about it monophonic Kampot meeting some sometimes you would cancel liberal left to right which of course you can't do it I had heard him say that a couple of times and I was like how hard we've worked with MS technology which I'll explain in a second I want you to build me a monophonic camp and so she did the way you talk about three months later he came back with more acts okay so this is the pattern and over here we've got one of the lot one of the dogs is the volume which is you know basically does your in and out of this does your back and forth and okay now explain how this thing works yeah that's such a good question I think that was one of the key points that came back for and I'd submit the first draft of the manuscript to the publisher is and the talks about four I needed to do to prove that threat and the idea of subversive Spanish cinema city the big not that it wasn't there but that you know just by adding things like and the conclusions each chapter unexploded back you can prove that threads together and the artists such readers on their anonymous obviously they are such pertinent questions that really made me think about the significance of the title and how it related to what I was talking about it because I think if you look at the carcass of material for the big and the filling car pass it probably looks quite mainstream in some ways I'm not necessarily looking hot experimental filmmaking in Spain that's not part of what that be extinct there's some really interesting things happening in kind of alternative cinematic practice says worst filmmaking practice in Spain especially kind of post economic crisis that's not my forte told us not something I'm particularly knowledgeable back to somebody like Rebecca north send you she has the blog nobody knows entity where she talks about Spanish cinema I don't know how active she is barking at the minute she's from the northeast actually and I don't know if you've ever come across %HESITATION but she's a really knowledgeable person I buy alternatives Spanish cinema practices that's not what this because it's not a private kind of we cannot what's happening with the mainstream if that makes sense it's more about looking hot you know the key players all Spanish cinema there are some films in there that are less well known there are some filmmakers you know the likes of petrol model of our who is probably you know the most well known Spanish filmmaker certainly in the U. K. ET bought depict deals rather with subversive nests within those kind of mainstream contacts and looking out hi %HESITATION the positional filmmakers we're working under Franco's the likes of Carlos Salazar or at least customer Langat London about a name he's the uncle off have yet course people like them your last identifying filmmaker is under Frankel working June the dictatorship shooting about a strict censorship conditions that there were at the time so it's looking at those kind of precursors to what's happening in contemporary manifestations of performance and that presentations of performance in Kentucky sponsor and kind of seeing the offense comes through you from those oppositional filmmakers into the present day and what that looks like and how you can become %HESITATION means all speaking out against the common additives or the dominant ideas in society October so a reunion with merry at Spiro sketchy I previously spoke today at the twenty eighteen late shows this time we discussed her ad member French performance landing I also reached out to other friends of artist Sally match and a bunch of us recorded memories of Sally for an episode released ahead of commemorative events marking the first anniversary of her death in case you missed the hidden track at the end well here southeast coast companion and collaborator Tom Jennings reciting his first the North Sea fought in a way I found it in some ways liberating because I'm going to have number %HESITATION while I'm on an island in the Atlantic and that's why %HESITATION that and and the hard to get my head around them has but also very exciting I've got somebody producing will be in Africa during the time of the production and it's and my director is in Ireland it's just kind of also beautiful that I'm someone who's very international and I've traveled a lot and I have friends all over the world for me it's always been about you know other time zones and languages etcetera so it feels like the world is kind of stepped up to accepting that is more common than normal in every day and that excites me because it's just really creating that feeling of collectivity globally and %HESITATION I personally love that so in a way it is deliberating the strike while B. R. R. your chili but streaming islands you they can go worldwide and research that I think is a worldwide competition and %HESITATION we're having an yes it's exciting it's exciting to have that but I performed live for the first time the other week here on the island we had a little open Mike at the cafe and actually there's a lot of performers on the Simons strangely enough and it's the first time I'd perform live the new year and a half last time was in Newcastle actually enough and he was just so exciting for everyone just like all you know we have been sharing this moment an audience it's been difficult yet challenging but if we can find a way to have a balance in the future it's kind of interesting it does open up a lot of possibilities I know there's a lot of companies have in the states and in other countries you know been working digitally already for years they were kind of ahead of the game a little bit if you will yeah it's an interesting chance yet like I'm saying I think it's about the balance I want it all to go online forever now they really don't but how can we find a way to you know make a hybrid form or medium it's interesting we're definitely it's been a learning curve imagine a moderate offshore breeze when the tide begins to wane with the lapping of tiny waves blown back against the grain battles in the sun crackle as they shift this way and that while you stroll along the shoreline with Sally chewing the North Sea fast in November I never did like this museum and Stacy asked McKenzie frankly and caught up with Brandon Conley talking about detecting world a cheese your own adventure calendar that we have very much enjoyed this month's I do really enjoy this topic I like talking about the British Museum because truthfully I have a love hate relationship with that because the very first time I got to visit the British Museum was in the summer of twenty eighteen so I had not yet finished my degree I was the summer before my senior year of budding anthropologist just like jumping in my seat waiting in line to get into the British Museum because it is you're absolutely right this global institution where you can see thousands of years of human culture across the world in one place started walking through and seeing all of the things and wondering where they came from and how they came to be into that institution and learning more about the ways in which those objects were acquired and then some of the contentions regarding the fact that a lot of those objects have been requested to be formally returned and subsequently denied so the more I learned the more that the magic was kind of stripped away from me so it's been really wonderful institution I absolutely believe that something like that should exist but at the same time yeah you have really big ethical questions that need to be answered and yes people do challenge me on this topic they will often say well especially in the case of the British Museum if they started giving things back they have to give everything back and then they have nothing left which is such an exaggeration and far from the truth but I think that certainly concessions do you need to be made very simply the start you told a few items you have in your infantry unless you go through the store you will lose on the choir of right and so the my simple level keeping a record of well I have a small lamb well I I you know I I'm carrying this style the other not to spoil it I need to objecting counted but you keep the title of those the next can influence the choices that are available to you at different points so for example if you got a big cocaine to come across a big gulp padlock you can unlock it and if you don't you can help so at the most basic level yes you're actually do a physical symptoms but there are other things you may wish to record and write down old drawl at various points finally in December I had a delightful time with the of the last of the Cinemalaya Neil's podcast and learn lows but life as a jobbing actor in the U. S. film and television industries from Kate H. anarchists yeah it's I mean it's funny you say it's like kind of like a research project which I mean that I think that's a perfect example of what it is because %HESITATION I went to school for history I'm a trained ademas historian because you know that's not my field and I want to sound too pretentious in there I'm not gonna call myself when the film historian but %HESITATION you know I did study anyway %HESITATION anyway you are to no sales the story no one but no I am I studied history went to school for history because as I said before was a lifelong passion and I really do think that film is a good way of introducing not exactly educating because obviously you know there's too much Hollywood stuff like the last tool which is in the army %HESITATION but now which is actually funny like to go on a limb that little tangent armor medieval representations of armor are better in the first half of the cinema rather than what is going on today unfortunately but I think it's a great way to really see what people are into and see what they're not into and then see how they can relate it back to our world tangy and how to understand what we're doing wrong or what we did do wrong in the past whether it be through art or social movements and how we can fix that today and I think through filmmaking that introduces a lot of topics that are can be often difficult and can really meet people not make people but can really make them feel comfortable enough to talk about those issues so all of it is being an open vessel so to be comedy to be drama and just really being open and so when you're open and you know your team is setting you up for these projects and you're going out for these projects and you're up and you're down and you're crying you're vulnerable you're happy in your court you're sad the most important thing is just to be true to your authentic self you have your bass line and then you have people you study with Susan Batson B. A. T. S. O. and she is an amazing book called truth she's doing virtual people can you drop ins for twenty dollars a day Monday through Friday she has a lot of international people who study with her she's Nicole Kidman's acting coach for over twenty years you'll have been noticed I sure Madonna %HESITATION brushy coach is all these people for their films so being trained by the crown telegram right so you can be trained at what level and and it's like the best investment you're gonna make is in yourself with your time to follow the the food you eat the coaches you study with the podcast you listen to the people we associate with so all of that goes hand in hand with the characters I choose because based on life it's not just linear and I could tap into different experiences that I personally experience or that I've observed to being a great observer I love observing and so something directly hasn't happened to me I can with Google you can research it you can watch some like minded movies you can check out the director projects that they did a part for T. that's for films or TV shows you know the tone of the show grey's anatomy it's always sunny cold case you know the tone of the show you know the casting director like no other body work %HESITATION in there do great work you have to build a relationship with the casting director they keep bringing you when they like your work so if they want you on the show it's just a matter of time before it happens you just have to keep up and just show up and do great work and then make sure you're taking care of your body mind and spirit because they like I said they're very hand in hand with one another you know doing different characters is like it's always sunny it's like corky it's far sign in and they're like oh they like that then you can that's permission to play to take that a step further and discover where you can go when you get on set you've already done the preparation so everything I'm telling you studying coaching researching that's the tone of the show that's the preparation of the character before you show up when you get to set you already know your lines you already know your character and it's an opportunity to get out of your head and get more into your got into the intelligence of your body and to play and be professional because there's the takes a village and there's hundreds of people on set and especially now we want to be very mindful of staying within the parameters of everyone doing their job to make a party is you know the hair stylist like if they ask you your opinion cool but they're already communicating with directors and assistants and people and everyone has the domino effect of how they're showing up in everyone's doing their best so you know when you have the character you that's your ultimate time where you get to play and have a lot of fun well what a year it's been and it's because of you the listener supper still going and approaching four years of learning more and more of a different landscapes and audio visual cultures but I want you to tell me what have you enjoyed what would you like to hear more off and learn to fight and what might be missing that we haven't touched on yet and I know there's lots of topics that we haven't touched on and we're working our way Brian tape let me know by email to the audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com MSH eighty cultures part on any of the socials it's been a tree privilege to speak to so many interesting guests from such a diversity of backgrounds and I'm really looking forward to what twenty twenty to bring I'm always happy to hear from folks who'd like to cast on the show and I'll be back nagging at my artist friends to come speak to you because their class and she really need to know about them for night mind yourselves and catch you next time

Audiovisual Cultures episode 92 – Horror, Film History and Irish Cinema with Dr Gary D. Rhodes automated transcript

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this is audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and culture of production with me Paula Blair visit Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures to find out more and to join the policy welcome to another audio visual cultures podcast I am polo player and deployed to I have a treat for you today I am beyond excited to welcome filmmaker and historian Dr Gary D. roots Gary thank you so much for joining me hi are you and where do we find G. well we find this in many places during a pandemic mainly I suppose the best dancers at home like we're so often confine let me start by saying thanks so much for inviting me to talk %HESITATION I've noted your research for years and so it's always great to have the chance to chat with you though I'm physically in Orlando Florida now my part of my heart always belongs to the north of Ireland where we first met but more than anything else the best answer like I guess we will give us %HESITATION and hold you know in the middle of this horrendous play sets just as you mentioned that there anyway Carrie and just for listeners to carry and I have known each other for I would say it longer than either of us wants to add minutes to remind my grey hair anyway mine's coming might mean well on the way later the batter's eye below there's also there's always hair dye I'm definitely considering that right now so you like you know you're always like fabulous I had the privilege of being taught spicy garlic when he arrives at queen's university Belfast in two thousand five and that was the final year of my undergraduate degree and she also %HESITATION where the internal examiner for my peach state which is very exciting remember all I remember all of it very well I was so excited to get to Belfast means and it was so great the entire cohort of students you work hard on or so such extremely creative intelligent and dedicated students far more than I'd work with at the undergraduate level before it was extremely exciting and of course we shared an interest in Irish cinema and that became of course quirk to your PhD work and so I was so proud to be a small part of that process and and your success with that project no that's very kind Kerry you've been writing more picks than I can keep up west so I think it be nice said start talking about some of the methods okay and really get into a your research areas so we'll see what where you want to go with this it might be you get sick at the most recent thing out of the way because what we're all living through the man it is quite relevant something you from working on anyway which I like to tell us a bit about your hi cinema has been affected by epidemics research of course thank you yeah thank you for that question it's an area of research that became very interesting to me many years ago I was actually an undergraduate at the time and I was going through as it is interested in film history I was going through these old publications like variety The Hollywood Reporter and all of those and I would be turning the pages and looking for things of interest to me on subjects like the horror film one of my other areas of interest I kept seeing over and over again in these old publications yellowing crumbling publications from the nineteen twenties thirties forties I kept saying so many movie theater tragedies that had affected audiences and some of them we we maybe know a little bit about a film like %HESITATION inglorious bastards the queen Tarantino film for example picks up on the flammability of film and the fact that some fire sometimes happens it could kill people and so I was saying those things as they occurred in American these old newspapers these old trade publications and I kept saying over and over again and I started photo copying all of it because I thought there is you know I've never heard about this and it was five years and it was bombings it was sometimes murders that people would use the darkness of the movie theater to shoot another person for example all these very tragic stories but I found quite interesting in that they were so forgotten and it ended up culminating in a book of mine over a debt about a decade ago called the perils of movie going in America you know all these regrettably bad things could happen by just going to the movies but one part of it that I should now introduces the fact that along with everything I've just mentioned and other horrors you know they were they were unfortunately you know people would get groped frankly in the darkness you know %HESITATION so there was sexual assaults and things that would happen I mean a lot of this of course exacerbated by the cover of darkness because you know what it's a rather interesting thing although we're so used to in today's world to go into a movie theater it's set in the darkness with strangers all around as you know that was a rather new thing to do at the end of the nineteenth century to plunge into darkness with strangers but with all of the horrible things that could happen one of the others that became a chapter was the sheer number of pandemics and epidemics that affected movie going a century ago and even a little more recent the most famous of the move would have been the nineteen eighteen influenza the great influenza pandemic so much has been said of it lately where century later it's I suppose and pandemic terms the nearest example the nearest touchstone for us during all of this that's true for our movie going situation as well and so that became so much of what I was writing about in that book although there were other epidemics like polio like scarlet fever those tended to be more %HESITATION regional in America more short term you know shutting down a feature for a few weeks sometimes they were moored strictly demographic you know sometimes that theaters would remain open during polio epidemics but children Morgan made it because they were the ones that would contract Holyoke but the pandemic of nineteen eighteen cost most theaters in America to shop for about half of nineteen eighteen hands in an eerie precursor to today's world to re open and then have to shut again because of the surges of second way each you know the desire for everybody for their own mental health but also on the exhibitor side of the fence to start making money again to not go out of business to be able to sell movie theater seats again take a it's again so so this is something of my research is actually began when I was an undergraduate it ended up being a book and %HESITATION it's interesting how I don't know if it's the return of the repressed or what it is but you can do a project and then years later only years later is its relevance maybe %HESITATION or becomes more Roman you know the research because right when the pandemic fit and everything began to shop in America in March of twenty twenty I got a phone call from the Chicago Tribune saying Hey it looks like you're the only person that you know has written about this before and then that led to me talking more about it writing my own updates about it in the New York Daily News and and elsewhere because it's one of those moments where hopefully you know our research can have meaning for the world outside of a dusty library shelf yeah well I mean in a way it quite fits with your interest in horror because it is quite all horrific in its own way all of that stuff yes very much so in fact my op ed in the New York Daily News was published at Halloween last year and it was actually in some ways drawing the very connection you're talking about including the red death and post famous story the masque of the red death to our present situation because a lot of horror films have been horror stories traditionally have been about plagues both real like the bubonic plague as well as kind of concocted like post story did creating it like for the sake of of scaring people and and these things have continued through the years you know I know there's a getting some slight contagion have obviously been watched probably and thought about probably as much or more the past years when they were first you know released so there is a a very scary you know connection here one of George Romero's stating horror films you know where I'm going is always are at two steps ahead of me crazies your main course Romero having been the director of night of the Living Dead and dawn of the dead most famously but he made some of the crazies about a an epidemic and of course that was remade even World War Z. %HESITATION you know some of some of the zombie craze of recent years some of the stories about how the zombies get started or a pandemic related epidemic related as I recall it was probably the first season of the walking dead yeah where the journey of survival was leading to the CDC Erica Yoon the center for disease control and that's another odd thing I haven't I haven't really thought that much about it or written that much about it but clearly that there is a curiosity however accidental and so many zombie films in America being about epidemics pandemics in the years not too many years before and leading up to our present situation I think twenty eight days later it comes from monkey so there's that species jump that happens is quite interesting to think about it nine oh yes which is very fast and because obviously there's talks about where did this come from was it from a bad or so forth and that's been true of some prior diseases and epidemics and so forth in in human history in order they originating from other species of animals it's true of the folklore too isn't it because you know you get bit by a vampire you know and %HESITATION you know unless you like the empires and sometimes I should go for it but but you know so well either well or or rob but there is that characteristic you're Ryan and twenty eight days later was Gus was such a watershed moment I think for a lot of us that are interested in horror films and interested in British horror films and how it was seen at the time to really inject new life into and may be injected in a pandemic world is even an interesting word but inject new life into the British horror film that was so well known in the sixties and seventies and and it's very much again a key into and and maybe pressing of our current situation would certainly I don't mean to make light of what we're trying to study and understand it and %HESITATION and not make light of it but I do think that there are some interesting yeah there so there's a lot of interesting interactions between horror and %HESITATION plagues including our current pandemic yeah I suppose that's not saying is playing out scenarios I find in the arts so the movies are there a matching necklace what happened this could be the series of events that happens and you know but if people are in their own may face at the minute I specific way of understanding what's happening to us because we're paid in our little boxes were stuck at home I suppose we've only got our imagination I don't really know where I'm going with that I'm just thinking sorry if it's just playing out scenarios of what could potentially happen because there's such a big difference between a maybe like a zombie land and twenty eight days later ones very serious in the other one isn't spring yet there by essentially the same thing %HESITATION yes yes well and that makes my mind go fast and so many places that your faults there because you're raising so many interesting issues and and I think that certainly there's this fascinating connection between horror and comedy yeah you know as genres maybe two sides of the same coin sometimes they've been set aside I think that they're two of the most consistently popular genres in film history they both emerged basically in the eighteen nineties and they they really don't have much of a of a period of disappearing honest in the way that say musicals or western institute the consistent popularity of boats and everything from what we might call dark comedy which can be so often in horror films to the fact the company itself is I think inherently subversive somebody is so often on the end of the joke so to speak you know that maybe a lot of people are laughing children you know on a playground but then there's the one crying because they're the one being made fun of you know comedy can be rather in its own way so cruel so I think that there's some real connections there and I think that that's true throughout horror film history which we see played out in in two basic ways that one would be that the serious horror films in many cases what inject moments of comedy relief comic relief the idea particularly in areas like the nineteen twenties thirties and afterwards forties fifties we'll have something really scary but then we'll have somebody make a joke of it a couple of minutes later to help the idea was to relieve the tension of the movie goer it's just been put through the trauma of screen terror and then across the other trajectory if there's two main ones the other trajectory would be that kind of zombie land approach where the horror and comedy or combined it wants into something that may be dark I mean one of the things that always attracted me about certain types of Irish literature going back you know would be the darkly comic sensibilities and I think horror at times has gone down that road where horror and comedy or in other words he added he ends in creating the sensations and sometimes at those moment very peculiar situate sensations and emotional responses because you know when something's darkly comic does it frighten us do we laugh we laugh is is it an uncomfortable kind of laughter I think all of that's very fascinating and I think you're right that the imagination can help in these ways and sometimes it's maybe life imitating art or art imitating life and maybe it's an interesting I think in the history of horror even thinking back before cinema you know literature painting visual culture folklore there's kind of I think interesting kind of dance macabre here when you talk about twenty eight days later on I'm reminded one of my forthcoming publications is about the unproduced film revolts of the dead which would have been in nineteen thirty two or like thirty two early thirty three film directed by tod Browning okay Brandon was very yeah you know Browning I'm not in the list probably due in may nineteen thirty one Dracula you may nineteen thirty to fill freaks he's considered one of the you know one of the great horror film directors of course like all directors there were projects he wanted to do that didn't happen and I was able to locate all of his notes in the script drafts for a film that he never made in a forthcoming book and it's called revolt of the dead hand of course Browning live through the pandemic of nineteen eighteen nineteen and his film revolt of the dead seems like it's harking back to the nineteen eighteen epidemic because it's about a kind of a %HESITATION route in which doctor that wants to turn the whole world into the living dead knitting which spread across the whole world you know like like twenty eight days later like a %HESITATION World War Z. you know he's basically wanted to create albeit with kind of a supernatural origin a kind of pandemic of the Living Dead and in the script increasingly people start getting knocks on their door from dead relative it's who aren't the same people go to movie theaters they go to restaurants that go to the to the night clubs for young people used to maybe go more often for dancing and music and soon the dead infected dad over populate the living and and M. scary where you literally in the script you go to a restaurant and they're more dead people at it then there are the living and so this is kind of I think what you're talking about you know that it's a I think it's an interesting dance where it's back and forth you know I mean I think as so often he was in horror you know PO weekend with the mask of the red death was kind of a pressing it ahead of the game in some ways you know so it's fascinating it's it's horrifying but it's very from state from a scholarly terms as well as I think moviegoing turns audience terms you know these things can help us I think that's one of the great things about horror potentiality Horace to be cathartic to be scared through entertainment but maybe from the safety of our of our whole social media says it's probably a good please send CV asking a bait probably one of your best known picks UP the birth of the American horror film because certainly those of us who are young we think we invented everything and actually as you say it started right at the start of cinnamon I suppose for anybody listening he might be under the misconception that old films and silent films are very stuffy industry at a fast what would you say about that well I I'm always looking for ideas here about convincing people of the merits of going back to look at earlier years of failed and even how to work with the young filmmakers and %HESITATION young film students and so forth you know how to get them interested in hearing aids before for example in the twenty first century %HESITATION especially a period of black and white cinema of even silent films the earliest days of cinema I don't know the best approach to getting people I've tried various mechanisms to get them excited I think there's a few ways that I try and not least of which is the fact that some of the best known filmmakers today certainly in the western way well certainly in my home country of America would be people like Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino filmmakers whose films and their careers their interviews everything about them exemplify that their achievements and and and and I will be in the limit to just those two but there are two examples of names most people I think now they're films constantly reference built upon the tradition of cinema they are lifelong students of film history and and they of course attribute their success in some measure to their knowledge of film history and we can go back to so many other filmmakers right think that's true as well some of the great film makers are among the biggest collectors of film history and film memorabilia and so forth because they love the cinema and if you love the cinema there's not a starting date on it in other words you can love films made before the year two thousand and I think also I would say to younger filmmakers or trying to convince people to share my hopefully boundless enthusiasm and passion is if you're wanting to make great films the film genres we love have existed so long be it comedy or horror as we've already said or others if you're wanting to develop script ideas if you're wanting to think about cinema in your own ideas being part of the genres indeed we could argue the film itself is a genre I argue that in the same way Mekelle box used to argue that the novel was a genre whatever its topic or focus speed a western novel or a you know a drama or what have you but it all still in other words what we try to argue is that you can find incredible ideas in the past it can be because the genre is always reinvention it's building on what has been done before the cinema is about that sometimes obviously in the form of direct remakes you know as we talk a new Texas chainsaw massacre film is about to come out the first one was made in the seventies so sometimes this of course most obviously happens with the three makes but it could have been more vague ways with story lines with themes it can happen even with you know I I grew up loving George Lucas there still the Star Wars universe multiverse whatever it is universe I suppose with the Mandalorian everybody loves and Amanda Morgan is doing what Lucas did in the seventies by using a lot of white transitions fallen out of favor for decades but that he loved from the nineteen thirties films and serials he watched in so it doesn't have to be about finding old story lines that are interesting about finding some techniques that were popular once upon a time but not as much now and so I think here is in Willits fountain an incredible reservoir of possible inspiration of all types for young filmmakers even in direct terms right before I came to Ireland this spring before I came what I ride in Ireland in the north of Ireland that full in Belfast at queens and met you in so many wonderful students the previous spring I had my last group of American students and one of them wanted to make a short film called director's cut that was going to be a short horror movie and the cut was going to have in the title more than one meeting as you can gather probably going you know the slasher time about ourselves he got fairly far along before he realized and then I met him and had to relay the unfortunate news nectar already did a film called director's cut it was a horror film that at least in the most basic idea that you get from that title it had been done before and so I think even if you're committed to doing something extraordinarily noted perhaps you're interested in all of Asgard or experimental you want to do something that's never been done before it does help to know film history so you're not reinventing the wheel as that student was trying to do and fortunately he moved on to another project and that was wonderful for him but he had gotten far long before I met him with something that was on knowingly copy and past so if you are going to work with the past it's best to do of course is a very knowing away which is one of the things course yeah that we love about people like Quentin Tarantino and again so many other filmmakers that work in this same kind of way no yeah so I wanted to see Askey a fight your work on political safe because you've written probably I I don't know maybe the most comprehensive biographies of lego say and because he is a figure that we certainly anyone who knows her stuff about horror film they know he's out is so I was wondering if you would mind if there are any listeners may be younger listeners who don't know who you were talking about aids or you know as you mentioned earlier he was Dracula he was Dracula yes it's hard grinding struck in that you know and that was back with the universal horror the creature features in a way that they were doing in the nineteen thirties but that was you know one of the first ones to snatch but that wasn't all he did he had such an extensive career and credit tumultuous life I think is while I mean would you be happy to to tell us a bit of bite yes well I I would love to and I suppose in different periods would go see has been known for different reasons for example when I first met you and I was first starting to work with some of the first year students in Ireland in courses like introduction to film I would sometimes show them Tim Burton's movie ed wood because it depicted let go see a very tragic late in his life it was a Tim Burton film that dramatized you know starring Johnny Depp and Martin Landau the dramatized the most tragic Lugosi's life and and I would show it to first year students stand because they they would remember that the film to come out when they were ten years old a war or or and heard about it and of course now it's much further in time from the release of that film and it was in other words a bit of a more modern touchstone for me to talk about legacy then and now it's very much passed into the past so speak from another century now we're now we're much cheaper but more than twenty five years I guess talking with people who may not know Lugosi I suppose now the best way is the white first white would be the way that most people have historically known who he is throughout the world and I think he connects a little bit with our our last exchange because it is a way in which film and by extension popular culture so often reinvents or builds on the past even in ways that sometimes audiences aren't aware in America this past Halloween there was a commercial for a candy bar we would call them here chocolate bar I think you might say called kit kat our colleague as overall used to eat the every morning when I would have T. within United also they're known for their note elsewhere in the world but they're popular they were popular here in America and it was it was a commercial thirty second TV commercial where Dracula in the usual dress the Cape the clean face shape shaven face pretty good looking hair slicked back black hair and affecting a kind of a of an eastern European kind of Hungarian slash remaining accent was on there pouting and of course wanting to sink his teeth into a kit kat candy bar and that commercial is even available to go see died in nineteen fifty six that commercial was him in in a sense refracted at least through popular culture reincarnated through popular culture there is a children's cereal in America known as Count Dracula its mascot from the nineteen seventies until to day is another of those imitators I suppose is another term we could use there's an extent to which even later Dracula's although still not known necessarily to younger people later Dracula's of the screen white Christopher Lee and Franklin Jela their depictions of Dracula drool calmly go see it particularly to the extent that in Bram stoker's novel Dracula was very different in appearance than the way we think of Dracula including on that kit kat commercial at any time if anybody affects the voice the Kate a so much of what we think of of Dracula in popular culture is not from Bram stoker's norm rather from Bela Lugosi actually what most people know most readily rather than say the long white mustache that he hasn't stoker's novel it's much more let go see who played even in nineteen thirty one film previous to that on Broadway and he turned Dracula in some ways a monster yes a supernatural vampire yes into this kind of alluring sexualized vampire so much of folklore the vampire was often repulsive and obviously vampires do repulsive things you know biting people drinkable yada yada but we go see really turned vampire I think we see this again in ways like we even there's a character named Bella in twilight films yes you know and yes different double go see some P. and Baylor would be the proper pronunciation of course right we do it in American a lot of places people did refer to informatics careers Bela Lugosi but regardless this whole notion that the vampire could be sensual the vampire could be sexualized and attractive yet even hypnotic another aspect of the vampire we think about %HESITATION often the hypnotic on ice and instilled throughout the decades sometimes this coincides with cinematography to have the extreme close up of the ice trading on ice it noted our eyes and victims who sometimes maybe don't mind being the victim because the vampire and in later films even as women vampires but the vampire become so sexualized and attractive and sexy frankly in the twentieth century until now all of that begins really most of that I should say not all but most of that begins with Lugosi's on screen depiction in nineteen thirty one and in various respects he keeps crying role throughout the rest of his life to the extent that he was literally buried in his Dracula okay so much for the two intertwined and mild saying and I I you know I don't want to self plagiarize but I think if you announce that you can say it because I've written more than once then life will go see play Dracula after his death Dracula has played Lugosi by that I mean that that again what we think of as Dracula is as much or more like go see as it is Bram Stoker that's how it was and I you know I saw those spooky movies on television as a little child and they will be in the same way I guess go story so often three little children I grew up when they were still showing black and white films on TV so I started singing in the late seventies even though he was by then long since deceased fascinated and have gone on as you kindly point out to write about it and and that's been a great deal of fun and some of the projects that come out of that have been enjoyable I think that Dracula it's a nice example of quite an early sign Diarra film designed area was quite firmly establish I think by that point and I think they were doing some very exciting things with audio at that time I think it's something that you covered I remember in teaching was the influence of a lot of emigre directors because a lot of the directors were talking about you were making the sums were British or they were German or Austrian or that sort of thing so %HESITATION you know there's that influx of that expressionist training coming over here's one of his last teaching I taught am I showed it for signs yes you know so I thought it was a nice example of a film from that %HESITATION already signed area that is actually really challenging said technology at the time yes you know I was wondering if you if that was something that he thought of I know you don't ma'am may be necessary to USA a static so much no I love it and the stakes are so much wonderful part of the horror film and a film history and even the history of a statics becomes I think so fascinating as you're rightly pointing out and I love it and I do try to write about it and I and I love the pier you're talking about because you know there's moments in film and I think we some of us have lived through it with the rise of C. GI the rise of digital projection the rise of motion capture where new technologies because a major change to cinema and this happens I think in some ways very much constantly you know the film theorist Andre Bazin used to say that film is constantly evolving which meant in his mind and I'm paraphrasing that still has yet to be invented exactly because it's always turning as he said rightly into something else you always turning into something else I think what you're pointing out that so crucial is there are particular moments of major technological upheaval because much more maybe profound change than at other moments and the introduction of sound was very clearly one of them but on that point you're pointing out of early sound is so profound because and I write about it in my next forthcoming journal article is for the journal popular film music and it's about the seconds all talking film in America which was called the terror it was released in the second half of nineteen twenty eight a lot of people would have you been seen it in the Halloween season of nineteen twenty eight and it was based on a story by Edgar Wallace and it was one of these kind of we would call them old dark house stories that were popular at the time where a lot of people gather either in an old house original tale in the middle of the night people getting start getting killed and even if the killer turns out to be just somebody wearing a mask there's a feeling that maybe there's the supernatural is a play and so forth it was the first of what we I suppose in retrospect would call a horror movie Insel neck it's playing with sound no it doesn't do it nearly as well as and because your use of and is the very best example and obviously by one of the master renters and one of the master directors who became emigrate as you rightly point out to Hollywood has never some of the others like Karl Freund who work with laying the great cinematographer who came from Germany to America ended up shooting Dracula in nineteen thirty one unit of directing one of the early universal horrors that follow Dracula which was the mummy in nineteen thirty two some people will probably think of it maybe the %HESITATION the Tom Cruise version or something in recent times you never know the remakes or the re inventions of these bottles so much of that was with the immigrate culture or stories coming from other countries and the terror was a British story but what most interestingly did it's a lost film but we have the sound discs because some of the first talkies they would have what was basically the equitable large record if you can imagine a large audio record music record and it would play in sync with the film being projected it was not a great system I mean if somebody bumps the needle the sound would be a synchronous and had a problem but for some early talkies even after lost films we cannot watch the films there's photographs from the terrible we can't watch it but the sound discs are there %HESITATION and I was able to access them and write about them for the first time and we start to get which you would probably expect in film sample we still get it and we'll get it in I suspect like the next conjuring film or what have you and ideas the sound of the human screened for the first time we get the sound of the screen but we also get the sound of the storm the sound of heavy winds through the trees and some of the sounds that we associate it certainly before film sound people associated with things that were frightening you know a lightning bolt or whatever that might frighten a child were you know a pet dog or whatever and they start to show up in the terror the very first time and it becomes very quickly adopted as a static in subsequent mystery horror films in nineteen twenty nine and thirty to the extent that by nineteen thirty there was a comedy a short that you can find on you tube called the laurel party murder case with laurel and hardy and third old house the middle the nights we can happen it's all take off on the second story you know to an extent knives out in more recent times has done some of this so again you know this never goes away keeps being reinvented but in the long run hardy version they so overdue the sound effects as to parity it's a fascinating example in nineteen thirty only a couple of years after you know a few years after sounds felt they were already prepared like we're laying on extra thick for the joke and then taught Browning immediately after makes Dracula in sound what you were asking about and he forgoes heavy thunder and lightning he for ghosts spooky music in favor of much more subtle sound effects like complete quiet except the creaking of the coffin lid opening in and trying to be much more restrained and it's so interesting because it is such an early point in film sound relatively speaking I mean you know three four years he's pulling back rather than laying it on thick and so it's interesting how these things you know can sometimes evolve quickly and how much is that expire role in the horror film including sound whether it's the spooky music or the spooky sound effects or the silence dates for the silence and that's what some of us love the most or or sometimes in horror films it's another reason to think so wonderfully about silent films it's a reason to think about parts of Dracula the talk Browning which are no music no dialogue I think one of the interesting things and we we have guests have the old phrase deals slang phrase you know that silence speaks volumes or phrases like that it it you know in America grew up hearing phrases like that may be used to get me to shut up but you know it was you know there is that I think that's one of the great things it's it's like you know when you can have a special effect when you can have moving camera sometimes the makers forget that they can let it stay still when you can collect extremely rapidly filmmaker sometimes forget that they can have slow paced and when you can do anything with still sound incredible possibilities now we can forget sadly what you've just rightly mentioned which is silence can be so very powerful even when the first impulse is to have twelve tracks or more audio going at once but just because you can use technology in a certain way doesn't mean we always you don't have to and so that's a wonderful point and certainly I think very salient for horror films you know you mentioned earlier it might be nice to see see what your connection with Irish and amazed because it may not seem immediately obvious horror and already sent a man and Irish cinema isn't enough we could get inside because I think there are there are a lot of connections there I suppose a nice segue would probably be interview with a vampire Neil Jordan if we need a Segway yes yes the way to connect a couple of these things when we first met you were teaching our cinema and dot really sparks at massive interested me because I'd had an interest in Irish literature when I was at school and then was really came to carry that on I'm excited in English and film degree so I was saying I researcher Hans Irish film and that sort of thing so is wondering what you know what you're interested in our nation well I I really appreciate that questioning and you remind me so happily of my arrival in Ireland but also so I try to be unflappable that's impossible and one of the spookiest moments and not a horror films okay but I guess it's a nervous moments was when I walked in to teach that course because I felt a little out of place not only is it immigrate myself and living in another country for the first time but I felt I felt a little %HESITATION I would never want to be seen presumptuous in teaching a course on Irish cinema in Ireland I had taught Irish semi actually America previous a couple of times what I ate that was a bit nervous actually going in to teach all of you because I thought gosh I feel ill at ease real ill informed maybe you know to take all that long since as an American and in Belfast what I suppose my interest would be two fold in and one I think it started with horror and they're certainly these tremendous connections between horror and Ireland Irish literature Irish folklore from obviously the pain she threw a film I saw and I I don't think a lot of Irish film scholars I don't know that any of never really talked about it much but when I was ten twelve years old I I was in love with horror movies I was also in love with Francis Ford Coppola who directed the godfather films in Apocalypse Now and early in his career he had made a film called dementia thirteen right early nineteen sixties and it was a gothic horror story set in Ireland it was actually shot in Ireland and you know it's readily available on YouTube it's rather well known film in terms of coklat studies because it was basically a second film but I think Irish film studies it's completely unknown connections go deeper I mean stoker was Anglo Irish they're such a great tradition of Irish gothic novels and as I grew my interest in horror I grew in my interest at heart literature as well as horror films so there's all these fantastic connections and Irish horror stories on film but the other thing to happen to me when I was a teenager was by about the age of thirteen and of course you know I grew up in the state of Oklahoma I grew up in a town that I will in American terms certainly most terms would probably consider small town twenty five thousand people I grew up in I guess I'm trying to think of the the best way to say it but it probably a and as a native American everything you know kind of a masculine type culture in terms or that parameters and so John Huston's films spoke to me greatly as a teenager his films like the Maltese falcon an African queen and these films with Humphrey Bogart who was one of the great cinema tough guys and you know his later films like the man who would be king was Sean Connery and Michael Caine and you know you can kind of see probably quickly understand maybe or or see that you know kind of okay a lot of his films in his life %HESITATION I became fast about Houston's life he was quite an explorer and hunter and you know very masculine and all that very much human waves kind of hit me way of twentieth century American cinema and he was deeply interested in Irish literature and by the time I was in high school he was making his film the debt based on choice and there was a credible documentary film made about it Houston and show the behind the scenes footage showed in talking at length this is before the kind of making of featurettes we know today by by a large number some examples but they weren't it was before DVD years before that cottage industry so to speak so I S. I became entranced by the time I was sixteen and seventeen I became entranced with James Joyce and the dead when Houston said in his mind it was probably the greatest short story ever written in the English language that spoke volumes to me the film version he made which I found to be quite faithful I'm talking at length for question and now maybe exploring what might interest came from these different angles from horror as well as Joyce and then about that same time Beckett because I was also one of my other favorites as a teenager was a Buster Keaton and Samuel Beckett had made keeping film later in king's life of course and and it kind of all on guard film and I was I was also getting in transfer you know it's easy to romanticize thing when you're a teenager and I you know the passion for it all and I was and I was getting interested in basket because of his work with Keaton and I was particularly intrigued because Kevin brown will have made this incredible documentary about cheating and he had forty two Keaton's saying you know you didn't even understand the film you know which I think yes he's one of the yeah exactly the genius filmmakers in my mind he said he didn't quite understand it but he liked packet and everything so I was coming in Ireland for all these different directions to conclude I would say that in the night you know in the nineteen nineties America really what Americans always had this love affair with Ireland is regrettable exceptions during some immigration periods baby in the nineteenth century and so forth but there's a lot of love affairs in in the later twentieth century certainly from you know everybody you know celebrating St Patrick's day to the nineties when the commitments particularly the film version you too there was a particular love affair with a different times before in the sixties I think with JFK for a lot of people but in the nineties it was like it was Neil Jordan and Jim Scherr instills were exploding onto the scene my left footed one you know at the academy award and Chris I was graduating from high school and about to start university right at that moment then there's you too and I particularly fell in love like I heard it on the radio and I was driving I mean I remember the moment so clearly I was driving down I. forty in Oklahoma City are your state that runs around a lot of America and I'm burning down the highway in an old car the only one I could afford at the time I'm burning on the highway and this voice comes on the radio this band what I didn't know the name and I had to ask a friend later that day who is singing this and it was the cranberry so you're gonna set but you know I heard including that kind of Irish weighed in at the end of the song which went from the Irish but meeting pop music even more Irish sound at the end of it just seem to speak to me in ways and again as a more romantic young person a romantic maybe more the German sense of that term my great grandfather was from Ireland cord so on Cherokee and mainly that but I'm you know I have a McCord whose family was actually from the north of Ireland even America from Cork and I've met him once is a little tiny child very memories on more work well on all of that and so I had that connection to Ireland as well so forgive this long biography ladies that I fell in love with this and then I fell in love with an Irish woman who was in America and all roads lead you know what I had to leave but I had to leave and it was this tremendous love affair I cannot tell you how achingly I miss Carrickfergus my favorite places how much I've missed the Belfast city centre the people there there's so many Dunluce there were so many places I like to go and go repeatedly I just unending love affair if it helps any I'm just thinking back said you saying you felt a bit of %HESITATION this American coming in and telling the sorry students about our cinema I don't think one of us ever saw thought not not one of us ever so thought we we were all really excited to he's American he's because so many of us hadn't met an actual American person so many of us just hadn't traveled very much and a lot of us had never even met people from the other side of Belfast because we were that generation that was emerging from the call list yes you know and this is so this is two thousand five and stuff so things were really only just opening up properly at is it took a few years after the agreement relay and a lot of assets I mean may I was the first time ever had friends from west Belfast for example I never never really met anybody from not far away before and then suddenly there's this bona fide Americans whose proper proper American you know and it was so exciting for us to relate maybe sorry maybe improper puts your to your to clients but it was it was such a joy because everyone was so welcoming I mean that was one of the great things about about living hearing role was the generosity and the charity and the welcoming nature of of the entirety of the island you know it was just like a beautiful thing so so it's so nice to hear that and it didn't seem like such a fascinating moment at that point one of my biggest memories of Belfast at that moment was the sheer number of cranes %HESITATION yes construction rains around the city it seems like a truly under construction obviously and reconstruction with the cranes but it felt to an outsider and admittedly neophytes our eyes to Belfast it seems almost as metaphorical as it did physical construction cranes and this coming together of peoples and and I suppose some of my great memories stand would have been with the film students and how film students working together on projects from those two different communities and film production or film studies in you know bringing them together it was really a remarkable moment in Belfast you know it really was it's so nice to remember all that actually it's so good to hear your side of it I mean we all just felt like kids you know so we didn't know what where you come from or anything and but that was back at that time when I think students and certainly undergraduate ins had reverence for he ever researching them it didn't matter who they were what age they were or whatever the person at the front of the class was the authority and that was it I mean if we didn't even think to question anything like that where is I think it's become very different certainly my experience was very different when I was teaching it's so good to hear it from your experiences while because I think we even though we were from there we were it was all new to us as well so that's pretty interesting to think about it that way yeah well it's it was it was a wonderful period and one of the my favorite periods you know as we look back and there's sometimes a few years that we're so happy here and sometimes maybe a year to that's not and so forth I was one of the happiest periods in my life and a lot of it was queens and was filmed queens and was all of you there and and of course you know the tremendous colleagues who were there at that time like because overall and and Raymond in the network you know some people who are no longer even at queens that moved on or retired but it was quite a %HESITATION wonderful meeting of everyone I think Cynthia I have very special memories Terry said Kerry is there anything we haven't covered that you would like to touch on just so thankful for having me %HESITATION that allowing me the chance to chat and chat probably chat too much but I I love talking about obviously all these issues and %HESITATION so it's it's great to have the opportunity to do so I have so enjoyed it it's been great because I mean we've known each other for a long time but I think this is the first time I've heard a lot of all of thought so that's been really a treat for me and it's been so good to catch up it's been a while and yeah it's good to reminisces while back home with somebody who loves to fight yes indeed it well even hear your accent now and back to hearing American accents every day and some of them are quite nice but I miss the accents of people essentially ready but but it was such a beautiful thing really the Irish accents from throughout the island needles are are are so beautiful and almost melodic to here and I miss that so much I sometimes I had to you know with some of the Belfast people talking so quickly I had to listen very carefully well I got I got better at it over time so it's great to hear even the accent I missed so much well it's great to hear you eating yeah come thank you enough for your time saying this it's been really really fun and I hope pretty informative for lots of people as well it certainly has been for me to sign K. ands take care and all the best with everything you're working on thanks so very much all the best to you and all of the listeners including as we trudge out hopefully soon the last of the hand

Audiovisual Cultures episode 88 – The New Hamburg School of Filmmaking automated transcript of full live recording

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okay welcome to another episode of audiovisual cultures with me paula blair today i have the really great pleasure of being joined from germany by lars henrichs and nissan arakan to talk about the new hamburg school of filmmaking we’re going to talk about your filmmaking collaborations and maybe a bit about your underground film festival um but first nissan and lars could i ask you each to tell us a bit about yourselves give us a bit of an introduction to you okay sure okay um hi my name is nissan arakan i’m originally from turkey i live in germany since i am i was 10 years old so it’s now for 20 years i studied acting and homework with last together um when i was 17 and then i started uh working as an actor here in germany um but i wanted to do more independent unique stuff stuff i would like to watch and i was kind of stuck in in the german film industry as as the turkish muslim roles to play and um the system is for for um actors who who are not exactly white um frustrating and um so i want to do my own stuff i still work as an actress here i mean now during corona it’s almost impossible but i i never stopped working as as an actor because i i need to pay my rent but but at uh the year 2016 i think we we met again so we we knew each other when we were 17 then for a long time we haven’t seen each other and then we we re-met and um he had a similar story he also but he should tell himself he also started as an actor and was frustrated by the industry so and he you should tell yourself your own story but we started to make um independent movies together which are more unique not so mainstream not not so german typical at all and um yeah we were i’m really happy about that uh all right um i’m i’m lars lars hendrix uh i’m an uh yeah actor and filmmaker from uh hamburg uh yeah i met nissan when we were 17 and studied acting uh here in hamburg and i’ve always wanted to become a filmmaker i’ve always wanted to become a director um but i didn’t do that great in school so i was told uh the the the um you you can be an actor but you can’t be a director because for that you would have to go to a university and you would need you would need whatever better grades um and then i went to university to study acting when i was 17. um and after that i started i i directed the play and then i started making short films with uh with other acting students and film students and out of that grew uh yeah some kind of a production collective um i made my first couple of uh no budget feature films uh i think i started in 2013 i had uh i landed a leading role in the australian teenagers sitcom in your dreams it’s on youtube go watch it um and and after that like that that was like a really big set so so i was for for uh two years every day on on this big million euro budget set and i thought all right i can emulate these processes without the money um and we started doing that in 2013 when i made my feature debut why hans wagner hates the stories guy uh whatever um wasn’t that good it’s okay actually it’s okay um and yeah then after i made that i met other hamburg-based independent no budget filmmakers because that was right around the time when um equipment for like consumer grade prices uh would would start to come up that that that was able to uh produce images and sound that were fit for cinemas uh so so for the first time like cinema level film production became achievable for everyone and there were a couple of people who started doing that in in hamburg um namely the director christian grundy and director tommy tommy kessler bad with names even though those are collaborators of quite some years really embarrassing sorry sorry tommy um no but but then we we uh we as three came together and we first founded the obsessive underground film festival in hamburg that focused on these kinds of movies um that would uh untypically for german movies uh be very um they would be mostly genre movies uh not exactly the the way genre usually works like we were all genre bending and experimenting and stuff because we didn’t have monetary restrictions uh we we could just do whatever we wanted because there was no money to be lost because it was all no budget um but yeah it was it was uh like german film usually isn’t uh genre even genre adjacent so so we we did that um did that for a couple years and then uh yeah then we re-met and we made a movie together uh in which for the first time christian grunde who co-founded the festival other director uh was the uh he he was the dop on that movie um and so many other stuff we like he did the costumes with me yeah and uh he um did he organized people who could um like the sound guy and and he organized he made set designs yeah we became like a like like a three people like like a punk band making movies yeah and um yeah and and then we made that and and then nissan uh had the idea to submit it via film freeway uh that’s a that’s an online platform to film festivals all around the world then we got invited then we traveled to all these places and we kept making movies uh actually uh getting some budgets uh getting the movies released for the first time so that’s all nissan’s work and she also uh then um took over organizing the film festivals uh together with me and christian and then people from the us came and and from belgium and from all over europe and it was uh it was great wonderful a comprehensive introduction to both of you and all the things you’ve been working on thank you so much um and there’s a there’s a huge amount there i think for us to start to go and look at in a bit more detail i mean first of all i just want to thank you both so much for doing this with such impeccable english because i have no german so i feel very inadequate right now as a horrible british person who can’t speak any other languages very well and so just thank you on the top for that um it’s uh yeah you’ve been doing a really impressive amount of work and i love the way you describe this as the three of you a bit like a punk band making movies and that was something i really wanted to pick up on i think i feel perhaps um a lot of empathy with that because a lot of podcasters like me it feels very diy and on the hoof and very punk as well and it’s the technology that’s allowing us finally to do that because like yourselves i never would have broken into radio by myself or or filmmaking by myself so this gives me a way of doing it so i’d love really to hear a bit more detail about that if you’re happy to go into that a bit more sure nissan um should we like start with i don’t know leon or well yeah okay so so as i as i said before yeah i think that that diy culture in general is right now at the place where it’s never been before because yeah sound equipment too has come such a long way i mean uh i know of professional film production that gets dubbed via whatsapp voice message which isn’t ideal but people don’t notice because even your phone you have such high grade microphones by now i remember when i actually did have a punk band uh when when we were first starting out and we were 13 in our uh

what you call in our rehearsal room and we wanted to record ourselves and it was a real hassle and we had like these we had to carry these huge computers like a windows 98 tower pc uh to that room and set it all up and then we had one crappy microphone that that that and you couldn’t even really make out what you were listening to when you were listening to it and um i don’t think that’s the thing that uh new bands uh really have to uh fight with uh in in in that’s um in that way because yeah everything is now capable of of really empowering you to to produce good things and um i think because in in film all kinds of uh media sort of comes together like you need you need great sound equipment you need great uh the capacity of great sound production um you need to make a soundtrack so so some music is is in there too then you need a good camera you need good good images so so so all of this sort of comes together um and i think it hasn’t been possible for a long time to make something that can on some level compete uh with uh what you can put out with a lot of money behind it it is i think still you can’t really compete it’s it’s still everything we do is great for the tiny amount of cost but but i i guess you will be able to make out the difference but it’s very very different to what it was like in the 90s it doesn’t look like it’s shot on video um it it looks like it’s shot for for cinema because we shoot in the same kind of format um and yeah i think i think that’s i think we’re living in a really interesting time because uh for filmmaking and and yeah every other type of media it hasn’t been possible before um and i think music as usual has been ahead of the revolution like we’ve seen all these diy acts come up and and really make the big time really quickly uh soundcloud has been a thing uh in in this way and and film is always a little behind because it’s a little bit more complicated but i hope it’s coming uh we’ve been doing it for for almost 10 years now we’ve been looking for people all over the world who would do the feature film thing this way um and i mean in the us there has been the mumblecore wave uh already and um yeah i i think it’s a thing that still is in its infancy but it’s coming and i hope there’s gonna be more uh punk band type uh production uh we’re not a company but what are we collective production collectives coming up yeah um i mean yeah i think diy can be very frustrating um but it’s also very very rewarding when you when you watch something and you know everything on screen was me

so um sorry nissan do you have anything to add there um i’m not sure because you uh you told already all the important stuff and i um i think what i’m also uh proud of is that we started um really little with i mean you did other movies before i don’t want to take credit for that um he started before me but when we um did our first movie together um which was leon must die which you can watch on amazon prime um we just did it uh we we just showed a feature movie in the park sometimes uh we had i think we had like three locations which was um in the flat of the uh actor of the main actor and the park and i think the um what’s keller in the basement in the basement of a friend so and um it was really little but we we were creative and and the movie was ironical and um we last me and christian we did like everything together and um i don’t know it was really great after the film freeway uh tour that um the movie went to vietnam to a festival in vietnam to to the um states and we also went um to um to america in sanford maine and also in in uk we were in the derby film festival and that was really great um so then we did this the uh i y thing again with a little more budget this time we worked for an acting school and um we worked with their um students on a movie together um based on on their uh character wishes um so uh because we you uh last and me we are also from the acting department so we could work with that and we are making films we could work with that so um the second movie we did together um was also on many many festivals and uh was um was um uh sorry how do you say his english is better than it was discovered it was discovered um from uh from a uh release element a blu-ray uh releaser oh yes get released in the u.s yes it’s behind us yes oh wow on blu-ray srs cinema so uh i was really proud of that and really happy about it um the second movie is about about seven girls in the forest um and maybe um cursed forest so it’s it’s kind of fantastical but very very subtle um and it was with uh it was the first time for us that we worked um with an ensemble and those were like seven girls who were like in their twenties early 20s early 20s they were just finishing drama school they were not so easy but it was fun and it was also for us we learned a lot to work with a big group and um then we did the same thing with the acting school with another big group and um then uh we made a really really uh big project which like killed us um almost uh and um it’s not finished yet we we made a series which will be about seven to eight episodes and we’re working on the releasement right now and um what i’m really proud of is that you can see the development from from the first movie we did together um to the series which will uh which we will publish this year this year yes definitely yeah this this series by the way is is another really great example of like the series we did would not be would not ever exist without the the the new kinds of diy techniques that are out there when we first came up with it and pitched it uh all those german production companies would go oh yeah that’s really interesting that sounds cool send us the the the scripts and we sent the scripts and then uh people um would say ah wait uh now we weren’t involved in developing the scripts now we don’t want it anymore then uh we would go to distributors who would say oh yeah right cool uh go shoot it bring us the the the finished uh product um then we had to shoot it by ourselves and we thought we would get help in post-production but when we went back to the same people or to production houses they would say well it’s shot now we got nothing to do with it now so now we’re doing uh all the post-production by ourselves too which we are only capable of doing because of all the projects before that because of all the software available and and hardware available so so we will actually be able to finish it and put it out there but i guess um only 10 15 years ago were we in the same situation that we are in now the project would be dead it would be completely tanked um so uh yeah it’s it’s that’s another thing where we are lucky while having bad luck uh with the timing um yes it’s a tremendous amount of work that you’re all doing by yourselves you’re all having these multiple production roles in front of and behind the camera so often it must be a lot but i mean you must be all skilled to the max by this point as well you must really know your stuff um really um lucky to have christian who is like our technician daddy so like we always ask him how to do this and that and i mean every time when we do something i guess it’s because because you’re so so uh into the production yourself like when i when i when i watch the thing that that we’ve just been doing i see the seams i see everything that’s wrong with it yeah and then when i and then i always think oh wow i can’t i i can’t do anything all of these things we did i i suck at them and then i watch it two years later and i think well there’s nothing really wrong with it that’s fine same same yeah um that’s lovely yeah you become a bit less hard on yourself and you know how difficult it all was um i was wondering as well i mean there’s there’s still a lot for us to to get to but i was wondering that trying to trying to push a new mode of filmmaking in germany must be a really tall order because there’s such a history in german cinema from the very start of you know so german expressionism beca and and this is something that feeds hollywood with all the emigrate directors who go there and it becomes really global and then with new german cinema you’ve got filmmakers like finn venders or rhino verner has fassbender and you know um i suppose anyone who who’s a cinephile will know those names for example um so it must be a really tall order to try and

push a movement or create a movement that is different to those that’s distinctive from those um but it’s true to yourselves and it maybe speaks to new contemporary younger generations i mean is that something you’re trying to do or is it something that you’re wanting to move away from or reacting against how do you feel about that um should i answer you first i first um i answer because uh every time when you answer you already say everything i i wanted to say um honestly with me it’s my first uh aim was when um i was uh doing this in the kind of movies and or events i also joined to obsess for underground festival um first of all i um i wanted to do something i really care about and why i wanted to become an artist because you kind of lose it if you are well i only speak to myself i kind of started to losing it while i was in the industry because it’s not so creative and artsy as you imagine as i imagined it’s it was lots of you know typecasting as i um talked and lots about um small talks networking and waiting for the phone to ring and and when the phone rang then you got the role for a project you did you wouldn’t even watch you know and um so that was the first thing and then i just wanted to fulfill myself so then i i really cared about this project which we made so the first aim i accomplished um and the second aim was to i don’t know to change something here in the industry or to um to and enrich it if if you um if there’s a word like that uh to um which was also for our last series for example great that by then we made all these other projects because um we could use i don’t know how we have like hundreds of different locations for example in the series because we i knew by then so many people who wanted to help us so um i also my second aim was also to um to make like a film a young independent film making family and um to feel like uh fulfilled and to to i don’t know can live from it um but by now um i i don’t know i feel like i i would like to um make continue making this somewhere else because i feel like the way i i want to work doesn’t really work in germany

okay um to the uh the the um yeah yeah to to add to that and to speak to the question of um the difficulty of pushing a new sort of filmmaking movement in germany um i think like i i love german expressionism um i i think there are me too we have a metropolis poster yeah it’s up there just out of frame i have maria pear as well yeah so uh the the the yeah the the silent era expression isn’t really really awesome and it’s so influential and um i don’t know we also sorry to interrupt which we also used in in in our movie leon must die you can see of uh german expression yeah we we do sort of quote uh i think nosferatu um and and metropolis yeah yeah yeah um so uh yeah i i really love that but that was a hundred years ago and uh then the the german people uh willingly ended that um and and completely destroyed all they had in terms of in terms of film culture and uh after that until the the um the new german film in the in the 60s uh there was actually nothing nothing that is worth mentioning at all um now that i’m saying that i’m contradicting myself in my head because there’s a fun little story in between but whatever that’s not important no but um like like no interesting films were being made and then the the new german film came and uh what so these these expressionist films were really big productions like those were major blockbusters um and then the the new german film they started out as kind of independent and then they actually pushed for uh state-sponsored filmmaking um i think most european countries have some kind of model like that in germany that became the only mode available for financing a professional production so while we officially do not have censorship you cannot produce anything that doesn’t get approved off by a board that does not have to uh explain itself they can they they can just say yes or no and that’s it they don’t need to explain why they don’t want uh some things and uh i i mean while while faspina was alive and uh did his thing apparently that worked kind of kind of well then later on there would be institutions like the hamburg film bureau where filmmakers like christoph lindsey who was more recent and and sort of a sort of uh uh sort of interesting avant-garde filmmaker um he would get money uh there so there would be these these these little instances of of institutions where you could get this uh state-sponsored money and make uh make interesting movies with that but right now we are in a situation where it’s actually uh the system is very very stale uh i think internationally uh you always uh um you will you will hear about about like one film every five years and those will be really standout productions but those do not have anything to do with the actual german film industry if you work here um you probably won’t have worked on those films um the things we work on uh are very very different uh it’s it’s all it all has to go through the uh state television and um well there’s uh there’s problems with it and and especially this uh there’s not much creativity in that um in that there are reasons for that uh but but but that goes too far uh but but yeah genre pictures for example do not get produced in germany um and uh many people inside the german film industry get sort of restless and uh frustrated i personally have have worked professionally in german film and tv for about 10 years now and i have not met one person who was happy with what they were producing not one person who said i would personally watch what i uh earn money on um all those people will go around and and that’s why uh those people are available for no and low budget productions because everybody like every camera guy i know wants to make a horror film uh to to sort of do something interesting with the camera for once um so uh

there is the uh we we’re not the only ones in germany who want to do something like that there is a certain restlessness and i mean that’s why there has been this tiny tiny mini movement that we have like we will there are i i don’t know five or six filmmakers or all around northern germany who you could roughly uh count as as part of uh the the new hamburg school and we actually do uh share um pretty striking similarities in style and tone um and so so yeah we obviously we all want to do something genre adjacent and yeah so there is this restlessness but on the other hand um not only all film production is centralized but also every film festival and every cinema needs state funding to to exist so if you have a movie that is not made with state approval you will not get into those uh at all so what uh this whole diy thing enables us to do for the first time in germany actually because also the the new the new german film they were also funded uh from some point on is to be actually independent to have an actual uh independent film movement um yeah and i think that that that’s the that’s the that’s one of the most distinctive things of the stuff we’re doing i guess yeah okay that’s really informative thank you lars um yes it’s uh you we don’t hear about this so much do we have fear beyond an industry or um you know those of us who are receiving say german art films and independent films or what we think of as and i mean no film is independent but they’re called that aren’t they um you know if we’re watching them say here in the uk um we would just assume that that’s what it’s like over there we don’t know all of that enzonites and who’s actually on the ground working on those films and are they making the work they want to make so that’s really an informative opinion to hear for sure um and i’m just thinking as well because um you mentioned you distribution and screening opportunities um so that must be a real point of frustration but then the world is so global now with the these um you know these virtual technologies that you have you do seem to have done really quite well and getting out there and maybe the festivals that you’re getting into seem quite small but that you’re getting to them and you have that reach and you have these global audiences that’s amazing um but i’m really interested as well in those very domesticated screening arrangements that you have i mean it’s very harks back to experimental cinema you know and it makes me think of the new york scene in the 1960s where everybody was watching everything in each other’s attic spaces and things you know it’s um so you’ve got that sort of lineage there as well with um experimental or underground type filmmaking that connects sheets all these other artists so that’s just how they had to do it as well

just um just wanted to add something it’s uh really funny that that you mentioned the new york scene in the 60s because like i think two days ago we were talking about it that that was uh this should have been the time uh we should have lived in new york during the 60s 70s that would be our time well uh i i have to boast for a second uh because because you mentioned it uh there is uh i i i mentioned christoph lindsey before who was a really uh like for me he was a big influence he was this this avant-garde filmmaker who um is revered in germany now that he’s dead and before he was really hated and he was like a fonterrible and a really funny guy and uh he would be making these really experimental avant-garde films and one of his main co-er his main collaborators um was actually he used to be a persecutor um in in hamburg he used to persecute uh nazi war criminals um and then he retired and became an actor in those experimental films he would visit our offseason underground film festival and once he said well this is just like it was back in the 70s yes yes we printed that on on on posters and stuff for a while because i was so proud he also played uh in our projects he uh he played himself in a web series we shot yes yes right and he played a role in in in the comedy i made before yeah yeah cool that sounds really awesome um i was thinking as well um nissan if i could come to you for a moment as well because i was thinking about uh your character in leon mustai and what you were saying about um you know your position as somebody from a turkish background and i mean there’s a history of this in german cinema as well isn’t there with them you know back in the 70s and so on the 60s and 70s with turkish migrant workers who were brought into germany um and fassbender’s films you know try to deal with that quite a bit um and you’re from a very different you turkish german background as i understand and it’s a much more contemporary i suppose version of being a turkish person in germany um if that makes sense and um and it’s you know it’s i don’t know i just think i’m really very interested in you know that frustration you’ve had with being typecast as you were saying and you how you’ve taken that taken this by the horns really and tried to carve out another way of well i can’t maybe can’t get the rules but if i make the rules that are different and i can be any other sort of character yeah um you know and then i was thinking about this character from the future you who’s slightly otherworldly but only very slightly because she is over than she is of you know she’s just she’s just from the future you know and and what happens with her um so i was wondering if you would be happy to to talk us to a bit more of that because it’s really i think it’s a really important issue you know to be fair to you know that um you because i think with a lot of us in you know sort of white western societies we’re doing this too much to people and people are just people you know wherever they’ve come from and whatever their background is you know and it’s um i don’t know it feels very political what you think is it maybe you’re doing it for fun but it i think i feel like it’s a political statement at the same time you know it feels quite powerful to me yeah uh it absolutely is um i i can uh quick uh short um tell my story well um i uh i i there there is a turkish there is a big turkish community in germany um i think the biggest minority community is the turkish community and most of them are gast abbayta which i would translate guest workers they were i mean brought in as workers for i think in the 70s yeah i think just as you said yeah like also in in fast binders movie

i think he was also a guest guest worker yeah but still um and

my story is completely different i was born in istanbul in a big city very very big western city and i i didn’t know about minorities i mean in istanbul in turkey there are minorities which are the kurdish people armenian people and um i i i didn’t know anything about um oppression i mean i was a child and the turkish people are in turkey the people who oppress so like my status in turkey is i’m a white person there so of course my parents my family is very leftist so of course i i know i learned what’s wrong and what’s right in their world but i i i didn’t know as a child what what it is um to be oppressed even though i knew it was wrong what the turkish people are doing because my father said so so my mom is a translator and um it’s it’s a very stupid story but it is how it was my mom is a translator and she translates the book by philip roth maybe you’ve heard of him and in the book the main character is a jewish gay boy i think and he’s an atheist also and he’s um in his teenage years so it’s also he has sexual thoughts um and she just translated it and so she had she was um she had issues because she translated this book in in turkish from english to turkish and um i mean she was not about to go to jail but because we were like from upper class i say now with uh um

she could have a lawyer to get herself out but she had like really problems and i didn’t understood as a child but um it was like not really serious but i think it um it made her really angry that she said she thought herself she doesn’t want to live in this country anymore and she doesn’t want me to grew up in a country where you get um problems with the um police and not police with the law for translating a book because about because uh you write a you translate a story of of a boy who is gay and who’s jewish um so i think it was also about principles i think it uh so she she just did it she took me and we um came we fled out of these political reasons to germany and i i don’t know how she did it because like when i was little i was so angry at her because i had this huge culture shock and this huge racism i i didn’t um maybe i was too spoiled i i didn’t expect that because i i don’t want to say that it’s different in turkey it’s different for in my shoes in turkey but in turkey people are being oppressed too but um for me it was i couldn’t handle it and i was really angry at her for a really long time during puberty because maybe i also i was a teenager and i need to i needed to be angry um but now i’m i’m gonna be 30 in a month and now i i don’t know how she did it like all by herself um fleeing to a country she doesn’t even know the language and she doesn’t have any help um and she did it and she accomplished it and i wanted to do art movies theater even back when i was a little child in turkey i this enter all those interests um i don’t know it’s developed when i was six seven so it was always the plan i always watched movies um with my dad i went to the theater with my dad with my mom and i i went to a child acting school in istanbul so it was always the plan but when i um moved to germany um first i had to learn new language um second we were like because we were um immigrants we were refugees we couldn’t choose where we want to live so i was from this big city and um suddenly we were in a small town in a village um where the racism and stuff is way worse than in a big city i think maybe it wouldn’t be that bad if we would i don’t know go immediately to berlin or hamburg i don’t know but um that was really uh i just now i can laugh about all those stuff but i just wasn’t expecting it i just had this culture shock and um and my mom was also she accomplished it that we were legal here and then she went like um on a depression because she was like all by herself and uh had to learn language and i don’t know it was harder than maybe we expected or maybe we didn’t expect anything we just wanted to flee so i had as a teenager so many problems living in this village

but it was the plan so when i was 17 i said to my mom um i mean she said that to me for years we have to leave this um this village so uh i um i went to the acting school and with her together we moved to hamburg and then things started to get better for me also um so i was happy about being finally in a bigger city and finally with more people who are maybe more interested in art or creative stuff um but and i think i i um for that i was i think with 1819 i had my first role and i started working really young and um and on my own and i’m also proud of that and like the first years i thought okay um it’s not that great uh to play the headscarf lady again and i mean the thing is those roles are very cliche written and very um discriminated without knowing they they think they they the writers are mostly 60 plus uh white men who german men who who don’t um even i don’t know i i think if you write a story about immigrants then you should um be an immigrant you should you can’t tell yeah i mean i i couldn’t tell uh the story of i don’t know of of someone who suffers something i i i couldn’t understand or it doesn’t even have to uh be about suffering it’s you know so um first i thought okay i’m young i’m in the beginning and um i will have to play those roles and then i will get something better and um something i i i feel more fulfilled about and then i was working working working in this business and i thought okay but i don’t watch anything i like so uh there are of course um maybe two three movies or uh one two three german stuff i i like but it’s very rare and um and i thought okay if i can’t find something as an audience i i i love as an audience um which was made now not 100 years ago and then maybe this is it i’m stuck in this turkish muslim roles because i don’t see any non-white actors playing roles without being commented on that they are um non-white uh so yeah that’s that’s the that’s the whole story and and then we did together all these unique stuff and they must die um you’re right since you uh mentioned this i’m my role in leon must die during shooting the scenes i remember we always um came with stuff like there’s the scene when when she drinks beer for the first time leon gives her beer and she doesn’t know what it is because you don’t have that in the future and i don’t know if it was on purpose but there were so many tiny little stuff we came up on set um i i know that feeling i mean of course in turkey you have beer or anything you also have in germany but what i know is what happens a lot because 10 years is is a big part of your development most people in my age who were immigrants they were born here or they came here with three or four when you’re 10 you are almost a teenager you are you know some of your pop culture and blah and i have this all the time where like my friends talk about something relevant um 20 years ago and they all laugh and i don’t know what they’re talking about because the first 10 years of my life i watched turkish tv i read and of course we all know american pop culture british pop culture because in europe we all know english-speaking stuff but the german stuff i don’t know i don’t know the songs i don’t understand the uh the tv uh child tv series so uh this is maybe what i have with aqua and in common that we are from a different world and some stuff we will not get oh thank you for that fascinating um large do you have anything to add to any of that any thoughts or um i mean i could i could only uh add my um my own thoughts on the um uh the the the kind of racist type casting that goes on on german television but i mean you you you mentioned that like there’s there would be anecdotes to tell like just the other day uh we we heard about this uh film that was about uh like a a turkish woman growing up in in in germany and then going to turkey for the first time and and uh in in turkey that would be like this this desert village because we all know turks live in uh uncultivated desert villages and uh that leading role was played by german actress and it’s just like all of that is just so so wrong and such in such stupid ways that i think come on guys it’s 2021 where have you been these past at least 20 years like uh if if you haven’t paid attention to fastbinder who i think did a great job of uh empathizing with those stories and and and and uh telling an aspect of that that he could understand um like if if if you haven’t seen what he what he was doing like at least all the worlds has been discussing this for for um yeah 10 to 20 years now so why um are we so far behind um but i mean that would just add to frustrations we’re happy we’re doing something else i think yeah that’s it well yeah let’s focus on that then i mean would you like to to talk through how how do you start a film project like leon mustai you know how do you get together and figure out those characters and who they’re going to be and because leon has his own complexities as well in that film for example you know and then um the group of young women in the in the other film i’m worried about getting um you know the titles a bit mangled pronunciation but um you know the the the backgrounds that they’re all they’re all coming from you know because they’re doing community service in the forest and that sort of thing you know where where do these characters come from and how do you all work together to create them um i’m i’m i’m gonna um yeah i’m gonna go first yeah okay i’m gonna go first because because i mostly write the uh scripts uh i um i work very closely with uh the actors uh for all of them um when we were developing leon i think nissan and i had just started hanging out again and um i don’t know i i was thinking about how to do a lo-fi science fiction science fiction project i was still having i was still dreaming about getting into cinemas and making something that that that would sort of translate to to a wider audience so i was thinking about how how can i use genre to do that uh and um so so that was that was on my mind and then i think we just had a really long uh about death because that’s um that’s the fun guy i am and i basically just took that conversation which was really long and turned it into a script so um there would be these two characters in its center which i think aqua is nissan and leon is not me but um there would be a lot of this stuff in there that we that we had discussed um and uh so so that that’s how that sort of came about so so so i in that sense worked with with nissan to um to to to to come up with it all and then uh for bear kittens um and later perfomaniacs actually uh we started working with this acting school like nissan said and um that was uh i i was um i was a uh i was a teacher there um and uh i got sort of bored with with teaching acting and not doing anything so um i started developing characters with the with the students um and i had originally planned this was nissan’s idea too um to make short films with them so they could use that for the demo reels uh and and in case of the bad kittens group we quickly realized all right this is this is not a short film um this is this is possibly a feature and uh yeah i mean they they came up with their characters uh they would i had different um different different uh exercises to to to improvise and to come up with with uh characters into intuitively plus uh with characters that would fit them and would be what they would need in a demo reel too um and then would i i would have them improvise with each other and come up with scenes and then slowly we would all see all right this is a possible setting like all the characters you came up with would probably do community service at some point they’re all pretty anti-social um and and then we would we would put the characters in situations together and see how do these interact and then we would think all right you two make an interesting comedic duo so let’s think about that and i think we had half a year uh that it was really looks luxurious in in uh in yes we had half a year of just playing around and then i would go and and have seen all this stuff they would have come up with themselves and then i would just write the script according to that and um it was more compressed with with the next thing we did with that school with pepfo maniacs but it’s really similar too then we made a a web series together uh also called the acting students we worked a lot with that school to fund our projects um uh where we would have uh them improvise all their or their dialogue on on set and then i would just go okay now that thing you said was funny do that again um so yeah from from this very close work with uh the actors on uh on their characters and dialogue i think um i mean i like that and i like the results yeah me too thank you brilliant stuff um yeah so i mean i’ve only managed to see trailers of a lot of the films i haven’t managed to see them entirely but yes it comes across that you yeah i don’t know there’s just um i think i i quite like that there’s a lot of emphasis on on the female characters and they don’t feel like necessarily that the stereotypes you know they’re they are quite rounded and that there’s personalities coming through um and it seems that you have you talk about gen uh about genre and it seems that the films have genre mash up so they’re very clearly they’re this and they’re this and there’s uh you know i don’t know if it’s a clash if that’s the right word but they they match quite maybe i don’t know violently or it just depends but there’s there’s something very clearly right this is a comedy and it’s sci-fi you know or this is a dance film and it might go into horror as well you know and um and i mean those aren’t necessarily you know that that exists in the world but you know there’s something a little bit just a different direction that you’re going in so i think i suppose if people um we’ll put up the links with show notes and things and on our socials and just send people to go and watch them for themselves and see what they think um you know are those are those interactions with genre are those very conscious um or you know you what you you tell me what you’re doing with those

because you write the script okay um yes and no uh i but by now it’s all very conscious um but i used to start from a point where i thought i’m gonna write uh mostly a horror movie now um and it’s gonna be really really creepy but then uh i am most interested i think in in characters and uh characters interacting and um i always find a lot of humor in that and i like when the characters are funny so then a straight horror film becomes sort of a difficulty um like when we when we made uh performaniacs i think uh watching it now it’s it’s hard to believe that i did set out to make a scary horror film and then i was on set and i that there was a moment where i realized i’m on set of a horror film and i’m just rearranging the actresses so uh their interaction will be more funny what am i doing here um because i don’t know um like like most most genre conventions sort of um uh sort of push you to emphasize on on plot more than on character um and i love plots but i i think i love character more and i like to to go with the um with whatever comes from the characters and so uh from there um i always tend to leave the genre boundaries somewhat yeah

i suppose with you nissan for you it’s more playing those characters and bringing them to life and how does that feel for you i mean i know we spoke quite a bit earlier but um you know are you achieving that difference that you want to achieve do you think with the characters um you mean the difference between me and the characters

so that uh different from the sorts of rules you would get in a more industrial setting yeah for example when we made the series the big project we talked about

first the plan was i’m gonna play one of the main roles and i’m not gonna do anything else but then we did everything so i was playing one of the main roles and i was also organizing like everything behind the set and i thought okay i’m not going to be able to act i’m not going to be able to be good at it and i was kind of frustrated but um because i was also production production-wise so into this project i knew like the script by heart i i knew everything i knew the lines of everyone and myself and i knew because we were also going through the script so many times we changed so many stuff we showed it to so many different people and we um listened to so many different people and uh i think during that process i understood the story and the character i hope so well do because of all my production work that i i was the role for these two years i i feel like i was also um once we finished this the series i um i was it was we both uh went into like black hall for a couple months and um and i was thinking about it that uh i i was a little bit like the role during this two years because uh i i was um i don’t know maybe i i was a little bit childish during this two years because she was way younger than me and like she was this punky teenager and i feel like i acted like a angry punky teenager during the years because i was so mad at everything uh during production so i think it happened uh without being on purpose but um like the uh the german industry jobs i get um it depends uh most of the time as we said they don’t want creativity you you get the script like a week ago and um sometimes it can also happen that that that they changed the script like two days ago you just have to learn it really fast and i’m really sorry but most of the time those scripts are really shallow and i don’t even think i don’t even mean it personal i don’t even think that the writers are so bad or whatever i just think that everyone has to work on a system and there are uh rules and also as an actor i think on a more creative stage or film project i’m better than on these projects i don’t want to attack anyone personally but those scripts are very shallow and there’s nothing in it to you know um so i i give my best on those projects too because i i like to um i always like playing i don’t care even if i think this is [ __ ] i like i i have my fun um it doesn’t frustrate me that much like the networking the uh everything around that but there is a huge difference if uh if i play a role which i uh believe in it and if i play a role because i i have fun and i need some money and uh oh i i’m being the turkish gangster daughter oh i’m going to be the suffering headscarf girl uh it’s fun but it’s you know it doesn’t mean like everything so yeah okay great um well gosh you’re you’re both working so hard on everything um is there anything else that you would really like to use this opportunity to talk about or to put out into the world um is there anything you want us to know about about what you’re doing um yeah i think uh i mean there’s so much uh stuff the movies we are of course happy if uh people go and watch it they’re all on amazon prime uh the first three leon must die bergtons and perfomaniacs also we made another another future during lockdown with three actors and christiane and we will release it this year and i think it’s gonna be really good uh but like our main main heart project is the series f60 kamikaze is the name it cost our um three years of our lives it’s it’s still costing it um many many many people helped us like without being paid because we didn’t have money for the project me and glass had like credits for uh took credits for this project so we can make it happen we are in deep depth and there are like i don’t know i think 100 people behind f60 kamikaz so it’s not only about us there are so many people uh who who deserves it and um there were so many doors which were closed shut right into our face we tried like everything to um to find a place for this project and as we told before we are working right now on it to to publish it as soon as we can but we also want it to be great um so just i don’t know people who listen to this should google f60 kamikaze immediately and once it’s published go watch it i think uh it’s i think it’s gonna be really really good yeah yeah uh i i we always have so many things going on so it’s always hard to to to point people to to all of them um i have recently quit social media and started my own website it’s http://www.lasthenrix in and uh everything we do basically is is collected there there’s uh the movies and um i i write there daily because i’m a nerd um and also we’ve just started uh a podcast in english uh just a couple weeks ago it’s called mysterium pictorium and it’s on the last henrik’s podcast international because i’m a narcissist um where i collect all the all the uh english language podcast projects we ever do uh last hendrix podcast international it’s on all the all the platforms uh platforms and we have uh we have this yeah english language podcast where once a week we watch a movie um i once found a hard drive uh containing 300 weird obscure mostly arthouse movies and we’re going through that hard drive watching uh one movie per week and then talking about it yeah we plucked a lot here yeah i want to do a mashup of our podcasts doing something like that that would be fun yeah definitely definitely can we can send you the list of films uh coming up and if you like any one of them just just tell us and then we’ll uh yeah we’ll we’ll do a cooperative episode i’d love that yeah we’d love that too awesome to you right right now i’d love to do that sounds great

oh thank you both so much that’s great it’s great to have your website as well lars and i’ll make sure that’s in our show notes and i’ll send people that way and i’ll make sure i send the links because um apart from anything you need the support and filmmakers like you really need the support so everybody go and watch these films they’re they’re really not expensive on amazon as well that you know if you’ve got prime i guess and you’ll be able to access them easily enough too um well so i think in the unless there’s anything else um lars henrik’s and nissan arakan i can’t thank you enough this has been such a fun r talking to you and i’ve learned loads and it’s been so lovely to meet you just thank you both so much for being so generous with your time and your ideas thank you so much for having us likewise thank you so much for your time and everything yeah yeah and really good luck with all your projects thank you thank you and i’m really looking forward to our collaboration on yeah victorium yeah let’s say it yeah


Audiovisual Cultures episode 35 – Festive Wrinkly Film Club automated transcript

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hello and welcome to your audio visual cultures the podcast that explores signed an image based modes of cultural production I am the creator and host Paula planner has this episode is geo each on what for many people is Boxing Day I saw it I take the opportunity to reflect on the volunteering I've done specifically my involvement last running to film club at a residential care home and some special festive events we've done I ran to film club from June to December twenty seventeen then pass it on to another volunteer he seemed ready Kane and I've continued on as a friend or two to residents since then the other volunteer left sometime ago and homes activities coordinator has been selecting the films the residents voiced criticisms of the film club at recent presidents meetings and I suggested doing a bank special one as a child this December so I'm going to indulge in a little bit of I told you so for a moment as I pass on all the knowledge I acquired in the six months of running it week late last year and all of my advice was pretty much ignored another reason why I stopped was because we've been moved from a bank lines to a really tiny one with only a few seats and this was excluding quite a lot of people who'd been regulars before then I learned the hard way that animations No matter hi mature or realistic go to sign it's very per day with this audience the man aged in their eighties and nineties are over when men were men generation and they won't bother with musicals or romance themed stories historical fiction particularly involving British heritage and the monarchy always works really well as did some obscure independent film side find which center on elderly people and issues that they face yes given that there are quite a few residents living waste various stages and types of dementia I find that degeneration of the films needed to pay no more than a hundred minutes as they begin to agitate after Ryan to eighty five to ninety minutes the narrative and plot also need to be as straightforward as possible I thought Hitchcock's to catch a thief was a bat as it's probably one of the more accessible and straightforward of the Hitchcock thriller spent many of her Aston's really struggle to even my fat black and white films should only be shown after there is sharp image quality color is best for people with visual impairments that helps and follow who's Hayley and what's what subtitles for the hard of hearing are also a must along with the key and the highest sound quality possible as the slightest distortions caused quite a few problems for accessibility neither the activities coordinator has experienced first hand all the sorts of limitations and face complaints on the scene how challenging it is to please everybody I felt ready to get involved again and last year in December we watched the shop around the corner which wasn't well attended because our session had been double booked with Carol singing we also watched last year a colorized version of the original America on thirty fourth street which was well attended and ready well enjoy it because of that because I think that was quite a successful one I suggested we use it again this festive season as is the reality of life at a care home we've sadly lost residents in the past year some have passed away and some had to be moved on to the facilities where they can receive the more intensive care they need eight new residents have come in and frankly other residents simply don't remember events from a year ago for these reasons some reputation is fine and actually it might help revive dormant memories in some cases so it's okay to be a little bit repetitive awhile back I published posts on my blog find it P. E. A. prior dot blogspot dot com labels affectionately as a wrinkly film club and went silent asked individual films and their reception the shop around the corner was directed by Ernst Lubitsch and released in nineteen forty Lubitsch was one of many European emigre filmmakers whose training and his homeland of germinate helped shape classical studio era Hollywood minute before the U. S. H. O. in the allied forces in World War two the shop around the corner was adopted from me close last Los play in not Sir tar or perforate and apologies for the nonexistent Hungary and accent there this play was first performed in nineteen thirty seven the year before the Hungarian playwright became one of many Jewish emigres I came to the U. S. side around this time the Hollywood film retains the Hungarian setting but not the European political climate of its time it focuses on to the Pickering co workers who don't realize that the author is our long term anonymous romantic correspondence while quick witted and scathing humor of pines this romantic comedy driven by misunderstandings and dramatic irony also engages with emotional fragility sexual harassment mental illness loneliness the trial and suicide at a time when psychoanalysis brews in popularity it appeared that so to date the commercial potential of being in love especially in December in the lead up to Christmas purchases of the cases boxes and wallets that is vessels for by gate H. sold in the store become increasingly for others instead of for the south earlier in the year Clara Novak played by Margaret Sullivan manages to land a job at the matches sack and company letter good skate shop by selling and musical cigarette box as the repurposed Condi box to a woman she is James wan's today's way it's convincing her that it's incessant playing of the Russian love change Oct chi chair name well Peter off eating sweets quite a few times and the firm some characters display fought phobia after the establishing act gifts are sought as an obligation to loved ones including Clara wanting to buy one of the long unsold novelty boxes for her unnamed intended unbeknownst to Clara her colleague added first Serie Alfa to chronic played by James Stewart discovers that she is has anonymous lover and persuade her to buy him a stylish wallet and stats this is of course after cruel words have been exchanged and that psychological confusion quoted from the film caused by their falling in love the musical cigarette box plays the role of MacGuffin and elephant in the room its presence and regular mentions recalling the very fact of Clarice employment at the shop her physical entry into health for its life and health it's better judgment as it was he who advise their employer Q. Q. much sack played by Frank Morgan against stalking it despite the products stagnation and driven by people's need to purchase gifts Christmas Eve becomes their quote biggest day since twenty it's on quotes that is since before the global impact of the nineteen twenty nine Wall Street crash the shop success comes despite or perhaps because of matches Shaq's absence following a suicide attempt after a private investigator provides evidence that much as Jack's wife has been having an affair with another employee a a it's apparent that his over work an obsession with the shop factored in the breakdown of his marriage was supposedly still in hospital his attempts at psychological sales tactics at the shop window back fired when the customers recognize him so well known are he and his maneuvers this results in him staving off loneliness at the end of the film by essentially buying friendship and company with the new shop boy for Christmas day as everyone else is paired offer has family commitments in a way it mildly reminiscent of screech and a Christmas Carol he only becomes generous and that school of bitterness to offset his own guilt and pain as for the lovers they began the work of being true to one another and developing mutual respect without them realizing this first emerges while they hit each other during a store room arguments Clara observes that no one but specifically L. for it has tried to grab her in this situation during her employment not much checks she confirms that being harassed as why she left her previous job the onus of course being on the victim not much has changed it fails so many years later the shop appears to be a respectful workplace but each meal employee it's nineteen forty so yes it's a heteronormative environment specially in Hollywood at this time as preoccupied with a wife or lover of some description Alford agonizes over someone he believes to be a world apart from Clara Fitch played by Felix press art is happy family man Vatos played by Joe says Schildkraut is not convicts with the bosses wife Macek is obsessed with the shop and even Pappy the delivery boy played by William Tracy has a girl at the rate of his ambitions Alfred's harsh words the Clarets that they're not interested as are frankly trade she is not considered as worse harassing by the male employees of much check and compelling the more problematic elements in the film the site it's a good watch I thank picky if you enjoy humor and delivery that really staying there's nothing quite like that classical Hollywood comedy and the picture is very famous for those it's hard to gauge its reception as the one person as they said he attended thought they had to leave before the end of the film and some other people joined us after an hour when the Carol singing was over but they had really very little concept of what was going on or what they were watching so the film is night part of the homes collection and maybe put IT again next year he knows the following week last year we watched the nineteen forty seven version of miracle on thirty fourth street written and directed by George Seaton and starring Maureen o'hara and John P. and to my surprise last year the DVD and created a colorized version which we collectively decided to have a go west as vision is an issue for many residents as I mentioned earlier color is much easier for them to see them block might also it's just a bit more cheery here especially in the dark winter days and being quite far north it gets dark for a hard line being a joyful story about the spirit of Christmas the color first added in the nineteen eighties was flew a vibrant hues of red green and gold and rare late was its addition even discernible I find it really impressive I was very familiar with the black and white version I'd watched it before and I just find it really impressive how wild the color was done on that occasion six residents attended and we were joined by to the relatives of one of the residents and I was surprised that not only had no one else in the room saying this version before they also hadn't heard of the story I told but has experienced quite a few incarnations and see other radio television no for lies ation and Salem sensei original story was written by fallen Tyner Valentin database I'm not sure hi that person per nine states the nineteen ninety four remake was fairly popular and I remember it being released when I was ten but I also must remember as a lifelong cinephile to re calibrate to the experiences of the general non cinema going public and a lot of the residents in the home are of a generation that didn't really go to the cinema very much and it's actually more at the man and they're very few men and residents at this home women have a longer life expectancy so there are just naturally fear man but it is my the man who would have gone to the cinema more regularly but the point of this is been to introduce the residents to films and different stories that they would like but may never come across before and it feels good when that worksite and it's even better when I have a few things that I can say about them from experience I'm not occasion everybody enjoyed the film very much and just sing the the lady whose relatives were there says very little and for here hardy said anything positive about my fate she's passed away since last year but believe me when I say I was ready to light it up when I asked her what she thought she replied it wasn't too bad and with a lot of the rats and stuff for the past you can really hope for that's really positive purposes or laughed and confirm dot so I take that as a huge positive and others expressed that they thoroughly enjoyed it and find it very funny and cheering so's quite lively that'll discussion afterwards which was really nice the firm opens as Doris Walker played by Ohara oversees the Macy's department store thanksgiving day parade which culminates in Santa Claus is a rifle the store that was back when they used to do this sort of thing in late November as opposed to starting in September as it feels like they deny however there Santa Claus played by Percy Helton is drunk and passes all right an elderly passer by he stopped to berate him as asked by Doris to replace him and Kris kringle played by admins Glenn he claims to be the real Santa Claus gets the job while there are concerns about Chris's Sunday his honesty and warm heartedness security loyalty from the customers meanwhile it becomes apparent that Doris is the divorced mother of the young season played by Natalie woods he has befriended their neighbor the attorney Fred Keeley played by paean he has deep affections for the walkers but wishes they were last Sirius he soon analysts Pringles help and igniting imagination and blind faith and Susan has been taught by her mother to be truthful and skeptical which in this story are synonymous with seriousness and it seems particularly and the women and the process Doris is emotional armor against further heartbreak dissolves and she gave center loving frat and believing in Kress while the film is funny with sharp harm this humor there are of course issue use that a film of this nature and a film made in nineteen forty seven raises but in comparing it with the nineteen ninety four remake I find the nineteen forty seven version to actually be less problematic the nineteen nineties single working mother Dorothy Walker played by Elizabeth Perkins seems to rely on free child care from her neighbor Brian Bedford's played by Dylan McDermott spend the elderly Kris kringle played by Richard Attenborough and %HESITATION she's just Matt and thanks installation L. while her nineteen forties counterpart has hired help and cleo played by Teresa Harris hello minimal it's refreshing to see an African American person fully present in the nineteen forties film and has expository linesmen she's really no more than not she's really no more %HESITATION than providing exposition or someone to talk to plot today but if memory serves St correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not Canary what's it to finite but I think the remake presents quite a whitewashed New York City and in a reassure of anyone working in menial or subservient roles people seem to be very Monday eight in the nineteen nineties %HESITATION moreover the men and both films spent much time alone with six year olds say send putting cleo's first appearance she has a line of sight through the walkers and Fred's apartment windows file which she keeps an eye on season watching the period from frats better VA on that side of them apartment building well the subtle layers of surveillance in the earlier film might suggest post war social paranoia it also demonstrates some characters concerns for the safety and well being of others switched to my recollection again the remake doesn't tear at least doesn't date to the same extent as Chris spends time with Susan he convinces her that mess on legends have their place as two stories and a matching nation and of course they D. but the danger is conflating the Swiss truth and reality season seems to appreciate this distinction and shows no interest in anything other than Fakten trace Fred and Chris joined forces to persuade her otherwise meanwhile company psychologist Granville Sawyer played by Porter hold in this forty seven version claims that Chris Harper's quote latent maniacal tendencies on quote as aspects of his life and character of March it is likely that he is projecting his own mile content on to Chris and Jack Chris is persistent and prepared to go to great lengths to persuade rather than proof to season that he is who he says he is and imposes his help on Doris and say send him he sees condescendingly as quote two lost souls unquote what really is so wrong with preferring facts to play your honesty to make believe disruption of gender normativity as walked in both films the ultimate goals are to you sure face and the young questioned on noble the violent offensive which is apparently sanctions and to restore the hetero patriarchal middle class normative order by reinstating that natural family unit having blind faith and imagination as a farmed as what's best for girls well being at least until she's old enough to herself felt motherly or wifely duties that ninety four version conflate stays with religion what Wednesday and forty seven is the authority of the US postal service where is in ninety four it is the blind faith and the Christian god appearing on U. S. currency that dispels the court case a trial held after kringle commit to sold but in both cases tenuously becomes concerned with proving or disproving the existence of Santa Claus rather than dealing with the actual assault that happened when I first saw the remake was old enough to not be shocked by the mild violence but the ease with which a man supposedly the embodiment of peace kindness generosity and goodwill could be provoked to strike someone never stop right with me the same goes for the forty seven version however it came quite soon after a war in which the U. S. I help the allied forces combat fascism and injustice so perhaps in that sense Glenn's Kress and both movie versions were played by English man can't be ten years C. excused by contextual moral standards importantly the forty seven crash I was standing up for the young kind and impressionable Alfred played by Allison Greenman he was being bullied by Sawyer while the ninety four Chris defends himself and his stroke Santa's existence to his provocateur the drug center he replaced played by Jack McGee night working for rival storm which brings me on to a solid foundation of capitalism on which the systems are late went against company policy Chris advises parents on where to find the guests the children want instead of marketing what needs to style it works in Macy's fever and a friendly rivalry and marriages between the store and its biggest rival Campbell's copy the idea of the stores set aside differences to share publicity and are rewarded for their profit motivated good well with trade and happy customers the ninety four approach as cynical perhaps reflecting the post Edie's greed is good philosophy forty seven crest is committed to a mental institution after heading Sawyer with his key in for insisting that Alford's kindness is an indicator of mental instability this act as a catalyst for a personal vendetta against crested so your regrets to lay it on it works to his own detriment however in ninety four the provocation is an act of personal revenge incited by associates of the Kohl's stores biggest rivals shoppers express to damage the seals and lasting reputation of coals to improve their own even still it is a bit rich to hear forty seven crest complete in about Christmases commercialize aviation when some to personify sets and ensures that the festive efforts of the primary care first of childcare go unappreciated for years World War two is never referred to directly in forty seven but instead only to to use Siri necks and loaded silences after half uttered introductions for example the scene in which Chris communicates in sign language with a deaf girl in ninety four was originate with a non English speaking Dutch adopted orphan reading between the lines she is likely her family's sole survivor of the Nazi occupied Netherlands I could speculate further but the purpose of this in kind Jr is Susan witnessing crest conversing in the first language of the displaced and traumatized child which suggests to her the possibility that he may just be the Charlie one post war renewal is perhaps why politics is mentioned over day in forty seven judge Henry acts Harper played by Jean all cart worries about the trials impact on his reelection as governor and mentions that he is a Democrat while district attorney Thomas Mara played by Jerome Keahlian he presents the prosecution case is a Republican this indicates judge Harper's leftist liberal and perhaps socialist leanings when he is buried in mail addressed to Santa Claus delivered to the court heist by the truck filled he accepts the argument that if the mail service believes Christ based on data then he must pay this pits Harper in a win win situation for children and voters alike by declaring some to to be rail and showing tremendous faith and the robustness of a federal system tension to review territory it but here the intricacy of the original story in the nineteen forty seven miracle on thirty fourth street that's partly why it won many awards and has been preserved by the academy film archive by the nineteen ninety four remake may well see it in time it is also much less cynical and has much more potential to cause hearty laughter and the young and old alike so you'll probably notice S. by the difference and the signs at just slash the home after a screening and recording us while walking back home okay can bear with me just a bit of a tight turnaround for head office at the break and I want to have my main computer so in a separate from the site as is customary at doing basically anything at a care home things don't always go according to plan today is Wednesday the nineteenth of December twenty eighteen and this morning I got a call from the volunteer coordinator to say that they just charge that somebody had shown mereka in thirty four straight to their assets last week they had a quick chat with some people and they decided to stay watch it's a wonderful life because they could easily get their hands on a copy it's not a sign on its not awesome I would have chosen for quite a few reasons I'm probably an odd one here because I've never seen this also but some I never understood why it's such a classic I think as well part of the reason is because so many people claim it sort of affair sums and yet nobody ever seems to learn any lessons from my bike being decent say your words your other fellow humans I find it a bit frustrating also this M. A.'s over two hours on the switch here is ten minutes I'm not sure it's much too long for a lotus paperless tensions spawned and as one resident mentioned to me quietly they find it very difficult to follow this story because said narrative structures were unusual so I'll just describe this coming back because the structure is such that he actually see a bit of a John Terry George Bailey's icing me character it's an awkward narrative structure if you're not really used to watching films because you see accept service like Georgie his guardian angel right guard presumably and then you see this re run again later as this he has never existed it's all those the same events and high people's eyes to be negatively impacted because he wasn't there to help them the structure which is very confusing for some people to follow so this is gonna but some it's a wonderful life was directed and produced by Frank Capra and it was released in nineteen forty six and it's after Christmas Eve nineteen forty five so I made it easy there are going to be association so I guess the second World War which hasn't long and does it stars team shirts and Donna reed and it was adapted from a short story called the greatest gas by Philip van Doren stern he'd written it probably and they think that by nineteen thirty nine but it was first published in nineteen forty size it seems after Arcadio got wind of it because you can get it published and they wanted the rights to the Sam so it became published it seems after getting interest from some studio George Bailey played by Stewart's experiences deep despair a lot of stuff has gone quite badly and as I said he hasn't been able to stay the things he wanted or planned today because of various things like service from a tragedy status being L. circumstances he gets to a point where he's contemplating suicide back to the film begins where people you know Hey I'm sending prayers for him and the prospects it could save you you find out why he is he's been really good to have a lot of people he's been integral to his community and he signed himself in a time of need but he needs to be shown that people have his back as much as he has bears so he's experiencing that state despair he's contemplating throwing himself off a bridge and ending at all G. K. heads guardian angel he needs to earn his wings his way of stopping George saying this is set for ten to be someone trying to commit suicide and the rest are on Sir George CSM and then doesn't believe that Clarence's says guardian angel Clarence is portrayed by Henry Travers on his intervention he shows George what everybody's life would be like had he not excessive and high much more negatively impacted everybody would be without him in their lives so there's quite a lot of difficult topics in the sound I have to say I actually wasn't there to see most of it for the past year I've been more of a profound Jr and they're very particular residence that's eyeing which spends quite a lot of time my sematech your Haiti's dementia there's state of her memory has deteriorated significantly so I spent quite a bit of C. sedan actually rest that resident and I've never it's never been a sum that subpoena to many so I've never actually seen that always very probably say nearly all of it but Justin Bates hello I'm now on a story on the so much talked again more to the practical reasons I stated earlier I just wouldn't chosen this because of the running time there was no opportunity nobody had time or the inclination to use and have a chat with me afterwards by debt we just have to pack up because they were getting their dinner it was the H. assassin there wasn't much of a turn ice forest which I think is what we're hoping but then this was always part of the problem was this getting marks bites and things being changed making plans only to have them torn asunder the day of the event unfortunately I'm going to go back say just for friending and just as a dying and not ready doing this but I do want to stress that anybody here say thanks for the science like a great idea it is a great idea to try and do some kind of at a care home Jones for men that shame that my experiences are typical it's just hi it's work sites definitely give it a try and I think as generations move on you'll get more and more older peoples are adults gradient descent and I actually quite a lot of more recent residents and they spoke already quite into sound and Jeez themselves so go to the cinema and I think sentiment can be such a powerful so that can be restored as it can be compassionate I can help with memory I can help with understanding the complexities of life and knowing other people's stories if you don't have access to them otherwise so it is really worth it and it's rewarding when it works while case of be discouraged by any negative experiences I've had it's a shame because we have quite a good tax set up since I hate I think one of the issues asylum is that because it was a last minute thing and it weighs the person advised that holds it wasn't a TV date ever playing on it before it was right from day to day and they hadn't done it with any subtitles I'm not meant that there were issues with the audio because together at a high enough level that anybody with any hearing impairments Kate's follow it and hear the dialogue that man then other people were struggling and right and says co pay and that doesn't happen so much when you've got subtitles because then the people S. hearing impairment usually they're lucky enough that the rise to start working quite well and they can read the subtitles as well as I said when there's no subtitles you don't have that to fall back on just makes it a bit more awkward it's also a matter as sensitivity that I wouldn't ready eschews nice some because there are quite a lot of the residents and their nineties it's very clear memories of the second World War there are residency not only did they remember at that time that that date back J. house I. degree a survivor's guilt they should person I'm second I'm thinking of he had a separate gateways skills in the war one of the things that bite George's different time line as he didn't exactly as that his younger brother would get killed and the war and so that is a very sensitive as she disappeared okay so that's a very long time with that person missing because it's not huge event in world history so I think it would just actually be quite upsetting for people and it is quite difficult Salem and not send sectors it was very real issues and I think some things are just a bit too close to home when you have a long life it means that you fight left so many of the people involved so trying to be sensitive to that because there is quite a lot of tasks and suffering in the sound but when you actually have pain sorry that when you actually left with grace and has been very difficult times in your life I think anyway it's great disco some say enjoy show we say they're straight at me no he said differently but certainly from my experience I've lost a lot of family members and in a way I want them to be escapist this time is here because every day I love to grace the older I get the more you can read it so we're tied in the sixth inning issues have graced her over seventy years gosh December thinking about you know it's not something I would have chosen to bring up for them I think it's okay so message said cigarette terms of box office because it didn't do huge she well when it was released I think it was up against quite a lot of figured he says and it's race was brought forward it was actually supposed to be released in January nineteen forty seven but it was brought forward so that it could be a contender for the Oscars but it had a lot of competition of course is post war there's a stardate kind of sorts that much didn't ready work force but it also didn't do terribly I either did okay but it has become a classic at this time of the year that people watch it over and over and it's not as in only just watching it domestically and that it's on TV all the time is people going to the cinema to see the sound a lot every year it's the main Christmas Sam it's restrained and sent a mess year after year after year and I've just never really understood why it injures so much and let's captures their popular imagination as it were but also why is it not working why is its message not working wiry also also see each other we're not all awful see each other but a lot of people are and this is one of the most popular films and Angus owned world so I don't understand how so much of the anglophone world is causing so much pain when this sounds should be sending a very clear message to the cross streets other to value each other not at any particular time is here but all the time so I'm afraid I was going to wash I did you know what you have to try the same tactics right man you have to do it anyway and I think it's fair to say that I can't say from cubs game at a specific item package the chances that it rests for a year and then I tried again and it's not ready to go to work I spend my energy so I and other things I think but yes it's Heidi for selling their being a volunteer at a care home anyway that is something I'd really recommend J. and Bessie opportunity arises very older paper %HESITATION bring it MMA Saxon tastic I think it is very much a part of our sonic and visualize it happening intergenerational friendships the experiences because even when it's hard to minus negative nobody may fail like it at the time but you're doing some gains if you find this useful or interesting please become a member five Petri on dot com forward slash a fee cultures pledges from as little as one dollar a month this will get you access to a quite a few E. tron only goodies such as previews to keep in touch and to get regular updates you can follow AP cultures on Facebook and Twitter he can get more information on the podcast and how you can support the making of it at Audi of visual culture style part press dot com where you can also get links to all previous episodes the podcast has been going for just over ten months at this point thank you so much for listening for supporting for retweeting anything at all it's such a huge help and it's old really very much appreciated please check with us and the new year there's going to be more chats with artists and other scholars will try and make it even more diverse growing all the time and improving all the time and with your help we can do something really excellent it's been a blast so far and I really hope we can continue well into twenty nineteen and beyond the music you've been hearing as cold a little Christmas music copyright it's teaching up for Sarah and licensed under the creative Commons attribution three point zero it could be fined at CC mixed or don't work you can also support on Patreon enjoy your midwinter break whatever you're getting up today and he happened to be listening in the southern hemisphere if I've reached out far enjoy your summer have a great one thanks and catch you next time