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Audiovisual Cultures episode 62 – Community, Collaboration and Courage International Women’s Day Panel automated transcript


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we need to sound for jobs consulate throw to any podcast recording one knows when judge hassle free throws hello and welcome to audio visual cultures podcast exploring different areas of the arts and cultural production I'm polo player and I'm delighted to present this special episode recorded at the community collaboration encourage event for international women's day twenty twenty organized and hosted by creative producer for placeholder and abstract video artist Rachel Breck which took place at B. indie studios in Newcastle upon Tyne huge thanks our members at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for you continue to much valued support and thanks as well to everyone engaging on social media this episode cuts between several speakers introduced throughout the session so there will be some changes and audio quality that I've tried this method as much as possible to listen to the end for details on how you can help support custom proof and those sorts of areas and just so you know there will be a wee bit of swearing a hundred per night chilled D. enjoy this discussion thank you for coming to community collaboration and coverage led by Marxist productions %HESITATION to place holder %HESITATION we are here as part of international women's day in solidarity as people who identify as women or non binary to look at how we can counteract bias isolation prejudice under courage collective ness and support each other through building courage via community and collaboration as part of the discussion we have a few people have joined us here a lot of harm in Austin print make it was also a community worker and activist have clemency Mogan of Memphis productions it's R. ET Dr brings life experiences to spaces and finds new ways of talking to audiences as well as bringing all this together collaboratively we have just been S. independent curator working with emerging all S. and founder of the curatorial collective which is a program of development and support security is outside of the university environment I'm recording for a podcast city with for a playoff or do visual cultures we're going to enter into an agreement today that we will respect each other's diverse city and you know listen to each other and engage in a positive conversation and try to support each other as well as providing counter perspectives and arguments and such we don't have to agree but we can all respect each other I'm going to start with Kira so Kira what is the value of community in a creative environment and what your experience with this and then to the rest of the group after that war or the people's experiences of that as well I think as a socially engaged artists I couldn't make work with the Irish community not only as inspiration can you see also acts as a catalyst for pushing me forward in terms of support a lot of the work that I make is informed by a lot of the active my do I work with a community union called acorn fund terribly and %HESITATION a help people like myself from working class backgrounds are low income backgrounds to challenge the status quo and take things that should be there's like their basic human rights so I think having community involved in my work is just something that's always going to be there when I began making arts or begin a project I always think it bears who's this project for I am really interested in accessibility as a person with a disability accessibility in the act can be quite you know in terms of like if you haven't had an arts education view and feel that you're not awkwardly mobile island off to enter a gallery I prefer to take our house to the people and I see the community as being like my community and people in Newcastle's being like truly vital to everything the project I'm working on at the moment involves the community of terror box so there is one in the east and that's where I live and then one in the west end I used to live in the west and to the Starbucks a state pass every day and I working together with some amazing inspirational people to write a musical advice well I use the term musical very loosely head to write a musical of sorts obeys what it's like to live in a terribly and washed we imagine a tower block blaze team or feel or like in the distant future if they were to be like Joe goes how would people look at that as a relic or are they type of time capsule I think the community is so integral to everything I do and everything I think a base you can't live with the community you live in the community but I've really taken a big leap and making sure that it's deeply ingrained and enmeshed in my work sometimes the music acts gets a bad name people think it's going to be like a load of collages you know or like some bad paintings and I never think that they're like buy clothes and buy paintings but people are like %HESITATION so it's just gonna be lovely thing everyone do it this initiating it'll be great what community arts could be radical Katie and can be about taking charge of the situation for me it's a base in reaching a community and helping people to see their own work and also to impact people's mental health positively because it's something that I struggle with and I think if the girls are going to provide any sort of leisure services or aren't going to phone the NHS very well also we need these sort of things to cling on to how do you feel that gender can essentially mean that you require a community to support you because of your identity yeah I mean it's no secret as a person who identifies on the transfection and he was also L. G. B. T. Q. that's there's a lot of opposition to the US in the world I've found new castle thankfully to be a very open and accepting place I wasn't able to be acts as buy or non binary or time reading and non binary when I was in Ireland and I think moving here really helps me I think in terms of community I was able to make a huge leap in my practice as an artist and suggested my general well being by becoming more involved with the L. G. B. T. Q. plus %HESITATION H. M. all the letters community I helped find the DJ which is drag gender folk and androgyny and it's a group of people who enjoyed drag as a pastime or as a way of life or as a way to say fuck you to the world or like love used to where I live and with X. staffs organization I don't think I would have become as confidence so amazing not just for like myself but to see younger people I think the youngest track before we have this fourteen in the DJ amazing they're so cute share drive to leave the Harlem but it's really amazing to see hello across multiple ages and multiple gender identities that can really impact young people in a really positive way so I think when there are so many trans people being oppressed and dying and when people are still fighting for the right to get married or at the right to like nas B. merger to for the person that they are I feel incredibly lucky to be in the position that I'm in to be in a welcoming space and yes I think if you are in Ireland and she wants to be a big case somewhere else come to Newcastle what is he colonizing that's another big thing for me is like look at a lot of this sort of stuff right recommend community and in terms of my identity as a non binary person us at Penn sexual person as a way of decolonizing myself and troubling that idea of no offense to the Hampshire room norms of world but it's a bit passe white colonialists tossed meat for that to be the only way for us to live our lives just do you have any thoughts on laughs yeah well I think you may like can you see it is extremely important and definitely I think I've noticed a lot more being a new castle compared to be in Buckham Liverpool origins to Manchester I do think new castle is very honest lads but the same time was so supportive of each other and I think it's great to be here and in the environment more than anything yeah I think it's with that comes a lot of support which I think we only use because you know we all have sinned during the practices which we can all agree every week you probably to get inside our heads and I'm sad I think that was one of the main things which made me stop the crucial collective cause for me as a mission trip yeah I was in this very weird space where you know often traineeships and I've been getting this experience %HESITATION I'm now replying to some other up to school but now the like %HESITATION no go to qualified but then I'm not applying for the entry level curation jobs in institutions and techno you don't have enough experience yet some in the spare we we it's in between you know my husband like okay how do I get from a to B. what do I have to do to get that experience got that spoke about recognition on one thing I did learn was voice not to the community and attends all of the people were in a similar situation as me you know it might often you're totally was like you know autistic whether it be a rise to and that is what it's like in full speed to make a collective and we'd be having these conversations these discussions and just you know being very like minded and supportive of each other of what we can do with a new castle you know it might not be make information available %HESITATION support and %HESITATION maybe driving someone else's development that they got today I think that's really important key to this a little bit about your accusatory looks active please yes Sir with this style is I think was last August so I'm an associate member of the new bridge projects and when I saw this was a conversation I did have with Nairobi who's the program director that she again felt the same way she's what's both sectional loss of around the northeast issues at this loads of all sweatshops and stuff take the flaws but nothing ready for the behind the scenes people involved in exhibitions we had a big discussion about what is a curator because he's gone but years ago is this idea of like the G. D. of K. in a museum but realistically that's not where it is now you have to be able to do market and you have to be able to network you have to be able to install this loads of you know I never do a correction job is the same as the previous one of don I think it's about you know okay well how do we create group %HESITATION we start these conversations and provide these tools which can help people with and there is they probably do struggle with singing of since then we did like a bit of a social see what people wanted to get out of the collective we've been inclusion of the queue right is to come up and have conversations we did a writing workshop for the local rice at right into something I struggle with all the time so I think that's a simple and almost provide an all around spectrum of what people want to get out of school so it is still an ongoing thing and you know if anyone wants to get involved with anyone wants to recommend anything like do get until it's because I'm always wanting more webshop some more discussions on anything is there a website URL or an email address and citizens from the moment curatorial talk lex if I am making a website currently amazing thank you Jess okay hello would you like to add any thoughts on the subject matter twenty three first I'm calling from China China Carolinians me currently thank you so much for coming %HESITATION the castle's buildings and I'm doing a project about the international and state side found this Siemens AG here is my friend the only sighing Helen's knoll and well you know in my country we I don't know maybe I just focus on family and the world but since I came here I found there a loss of communities as the last week we've been to like a workshop there are over twenty hours thirty communities they just help of men to go back to Korea and how to be stronger he's really inspired me since you've been in new castle what's your kind of experience of the arts and creativity and and that sort of thing up what kind of experiences of the hot I guess first class online always smile and that you %HESITATION just stranger but slowly you know how I context will say hello and how are you something like this and there's still my unique life we can't difficult L. challenging for us because the information is not our mother tongue so at the first L. Y. leasing to my teachers talking about I couldn't catch what they're talking about I've been here full hour half years I think my listening it has improved and the talking I think I'm really loves this place is not as easy as a mentor and I think the last time we spoke these people have more time to enjoy your life and not just focus on the work I think do you income challenges as a woman in your educational practicing your preferences D. field tests as a woman you need more community around here I'm really happy to see there's lots of community to help the woman I haven't found in my country maybe they do how that's I just haven't had that in touch with them yeah do you have any thoughts yeah I think for me I've always find it a bit difficult to find my people find my community I think it took years and Belfast's T. become part of the arts community more broadly and then I had to up sticks and come here and I had to move around a lot for a few years and I've settled in new castle for the past three years and I feel like I'm beginning to see signs many people my tribe and quite a bit of my tribe is currently here in this room I think it's something I value which is why I feel like I seek it so I feel like it's it's I'm still accumulating but I have real trust issues as well and I think just on the gender is she I think a lot of my trust husband spends on specifically women who have broken my trust and so I find thoughts a bit of a difficulty that I'm trying to overcome maybe it shouldn't but it hurts a bit more when women have been your police so it's just trying to be overcome not and spell trust again with new people it's something I value a but I'm quite tentative bite if that makes sense I'm still working three community issue yeah I completely understand the perspective that you coming from and %HESITATION I've encountered my own experiences of loss of confidence where I've been in an environment maybe one way or the colleagues who all I did a similar with level as me and same gender or who would be my CD I have made me feel less confident about the work that I do less confident about my ability to achieve things I think it's so important that we support each other and that we give each of the motivation and recognize each of us value and we're already up against huge challenges with regards to gender bias and inequality and so the value of supporting each other so you know important and my experience as an artist is that I've always been to create a since I was a child yes it's only being in Miami must say is now I've only just really started to bring myself out of isolation with I always used to make it home and spend a lot of time on my own and the loss that was about trust as well and so I've moved into B. indie studios which where we are today recording %HESITATION specifically moved here because I was already working in the building so I knew people in the building already and just chose my studio based on the location being essentially alongside this room that we're in right now and the importance of thought was the opportunity to be able to come out of that room and speak to people and meet people and I've already made in two months that I've been here I've made so many connections both of people based in this building and people outside of the building %HESITATION over here today and that's just amazing and the confidence that you get from being around other people who either have similar experiences to you or who you identify with or who you know were all written for you it's just it's one of the most empowering brilliant things that I've ever experienced it's really important that %HESITATION maintain this community because I'm a norm of soft sort of person that will allow myself to retreat into my own soul sort of neurotic vocal and I called like the Hoffman because it affects my creativity at the end of the day absolutely my name's on the post I'm from the northeast and are free before midnight on the northeast for many many years now I can see both sides at the flow of being here and being knocked systems play a bit of time on the west coast of America as well for me I think there are so many layers of community events almost difficult to skip this one woods said what can be applied to so much because of course in the office community there are so many blessings that are closest to a cancer center this is the second biggest comebacks merit it's a wonderful thing to feel part of something but even when you feel hot you could feel very much distance in every single event maybe I caught a forty three members don't feel well enough and all of those things can be difficult for it's still for the fact that many of us I'm sure how many assumptions but no surprise %HESITATION it's no weird feelings towards the office and aside from any kind of US eccentricities be wonderful folks we spend a lot of time on our own it's a lot of the city it is an easy life so community in terms of in the office communities it's essential thing but it's a very living being and it can be very changeable and sometimes difficult to work with book of salubrious sensitive people school together in both so I was thinking about community and more of a %HESITATION identity modern city communities that working class person and representative specially because I'm a poet and poetry it is someone sorry no skin apparently in terms of sales of poultry all time high for recent news which is amazing and I think it's probably because for in trying times and difficult times and people who haven't necessarily been leaning on social sciences find this is the place that they can find expression they can express themselves people songs right proteins Carissa %HESITATION yeah in terms of a percent a sense of working class there's a lot in the country but it's not the first thing that people think about necessarily coaching because it was very much in the early to stay on topic this practice is for everyone so you have to be present in the working class communities just palm Hassel what I do hope that up to the state economy hi am class community oh my goodness what a huge would have resulted in different connotations to every individual here today I think for me looking at community in an artistic context I think I've spent a long time somehow thinking that the great artistic community of the northeast was this great golden circle %HESITATION to conduct penetrate this great Goldenson collective read the wonderful dynamic people on so for a long time I felt very much I. scientific community book now locks start to feel like I'm kinda Grob truly becoming mall appalled after community and being able to a sold it to find it on my own tunes I kind of feel that a lot of those Smith said I had to borrow all too soon the northeast when they submit actually a lot of those people of justice in securing more regions struggling the site that's a B. so I think it's also about breaking down the meal hi but also as well the class is massively important and this somebody who studies are a comprehensive didn't go fee paying school didn't go off experten Cambridgeshire will answer from the northeast feeling not the pasta syndrome somebody was talking about that as well and nothing stopped it for a long time my reality through sort of the films that put it a sort of still very much bag and I think there is still this perception that the all star lanes will somehow kind of quite middle class but actually the vast majority of regular people all hugely creative in one way shape or form and it's about supporting people they give themselves connection also community sounded depictions to feel that they all created beings and that it is since the roe we lost our heads the company but it doesn't have to be it can be let's have it sit together and do some knitting I'm not too old you know it's not kind of creative perspective on nothing poetry is read the excitement of the wrongs of working class people who needs poetry is a medium with which to Sharon expressed that realities reading but I think we'll do the same as well about curation and gate keeping and glad we show our creativity within communities is a real challenge but I think it's really exciting and I also think that it's something that is going to become more and more exciting %HESITATION it's vitally important as we go through a formal yes if the Tories yeah great great yeah months of scam but also lots of opportunities to do just still sorry clappers wondering please K. do you have a good description of what you would say impossible it feels like this is in case if anyone doesn't know what else to do so I think imposter syndrome is about feeling that you all know with you have been happening the particular space on the comp B. two two sometimes with sex or gender a combi today with experiences of class or variety of different sort of identities my understanding of the is it supposed to feed them that they shouldn't be why shouldn't they put Oxley yes the show to the justice entitled to be in some way I was unable to yells but it is a psychological thing it's something that people have developed over a long time because by virtue of the feeling they shouldn't be so let this be the point where they've been told I digress he'll indirect means that difficult no right to be somewhat thought would be my interpretation of that I mean obviously everybody will help them to individual experience office and I think for a lot of people a lot of women in the law of non binary people of people who identify as female I think it's a much sufficient for people to just sort of feel know what money doing here I shouldn't be allowed to be here I think for roses creative people it's about creating spaces where people feel they should include the cops would be a welcome to please select the number of the people's taste call not only do I agree with you and I think whatever your gender or your upbringing is imposter syndrome kind of makes us home when you've got a cocktail of things if I think back to base when I lived in Ireland and when I moved here I mean I had a bit of imposter syndrome and %HESITATION and it might have been that I was a bit younger but more from the follies of youth I'm not usually %HESITATION now speaking on the idea of seeing like you know like to be somewhere I was never more aware of how different I was and when I moved to this country because I wasn't aware I had a class until I moved here I wasn't aware of this I had a funny accents or obviously I was aware of history unfortunately not many people in this country are more into Tories yeah I wasn't aware of all the sort of thing so getting a big opportunity like this project that I'm working on every day I'm like I'm just a little baby pence sexual non binary immigrants from the backers of know where those come over here what have I got to do or say or sometimes I feel a bit weird but like getting a nice group of ragtag Georgie's together and like and I'm not like a true Georgie and I work for grades so I'm a little bit like a golf tournaments and but yeah I think it's imposter syndrome homes to you when you least expect it and also when you most expect it's it's just kind of %HESITATION yeah actually I wasn't as scared as a bears what I was a lie which to do until late moved here and that goes for like England's ands nas necessary new castle as a place I'm talking about culturally in this country because I mean they're super super and sports appeared yeah I wasn't ready for that I wasn't ready for that sort of weird indirect questioning of who I am and what I'm even here yeah and then it's obviously all fell apart from brexit happens that's a lot to contend with that's my take on I mean I think for me especially being a cure right yeah a lot of big curate is especially from London all white middle class men hate spring the open I'm gonna bring opal it's just I said I feel like all the time when I'm doing stuff I question myself as a woman I'm like should I be doing this should have been put on this big exhibition I don't know I shouldn't but I feel like it's just looking back to raise of history that I am like I shouldn't be here I should be doing this off the time and I don't even know why I think not because you know even like a lot of of self friends at the new bridge projects and like even I come from such a great family where all the women in my family have some strong like with us we've got like a women's like what's hot shot I like it when I have a life don't know cells which is you know I'll always get messages like just stop like you know get out of this mindset like you doing great and I think it's almost is trying to always remind yourself that that you know impose syndrome is also like a counter reaction of fuel and Janie as well and I think you have to think about the Cheney %HESITATION wrong as individuals but just remember it's a really valuable thing that I asked my friend Leslie guy once told me when I was getting the base imposter syndrome eight that's the patriot Seoul don't let yourselves and I was like any time I feel the bass imposters like the patriarchate if she could do that either way I'm just like if I have a second double like white middle class men in my role to go to the women who are surrounded me and got that support Chinese and I think that's important as women that we all do in not in the creative arts in this there is a saying that you should approach things with the confidence of a mediocre white middle class man because almost like any other super again Weiss middle class mediocre men can have problems too and I'm not denying that S. yeah he's right there if you're listening I think one of the most interesting arguments I've heard recently is this if well educated middle class men who all whites all struggling then the social you know and and you know if if you hear of people in those environments struggling at that shows this we have even more reason to be coming together and supporting each other I was knocked man and %HESITATION as creative people %HESITATION as people who want to make things happen I'm one of the supportive of both the people and celebrates accuracy is impossible something that people experience in China is that a similar do you have the terminologies for that kind of experience do you have something similar %HESITATION is there anything that you can relate to because I'm asking this question for my own ignorance to a certain extent in that I don't know if it's an internationally valid experience or whatever whether there's something is there a term or a similar wording full of the experience of when you all at work or you in an environment that you feel out of place please if I have some problem travel I think only my family all my relatives come help me like I mentioned though I didn't send any community and all kind of help heal like how a child to and to talk about your experience let's take together no I haven't I think system your family and the relatives that's a really interesting point because I think you family all so important yes sometimes families can be part of the problem as well as a most times before I came here I worked for almost three years and they find a problem with my work I prefer to talk to my friends I think they can give me some advice that I tell the sides not to like my heart is maybe our meal off something is different and even sometimes they kill me someone last I'd still does habits yeah do you feel as a woman dies you feel different to the men in your places of work in in your educational environment the interesting because my major is international multimedia journalism my position in my company was Jennifer Staab presenter all of the presenter %HESITATION girls the law is yeah but are simple life there %HESITATION now that's a mon managing a group of women and Jana sing that rex spectate shins yeah that's really interesting yeah I think it's quite difficult for a woman to be us provide there why do you that is the household name especially when you'll get married you need to balance the life and work you know you don't how much energy to put in your work so I think just my opinion I think maybe the lost her for to kill promotion was not I think I think it's really important for us to be conscious of the fact that our experience nationally and heroes someone from Ireland we have so many different perspectives around the world and that what we're experiencing here is very different to maybe what you experience in China %HESITATION and stop balance of your ability to think about your work and your life as a woman is so different would you say that the expectation to get married for example in China was I guess the question I want to ask you is in China if you decided I'm not going to get married %HESITATION and I'm not going to go into business and I'm going to be an all is what without experience be like for you would you you know do you know people who've who made decisions like that he said I'm not going to marry I'm not going to work I'm to make often gonna make music yeah I'll call friends she was my classmate we lived together she said %HESITATION accountants now has a boyfriend I don't know why but she told me she bill months again marriages hello marriage is quite difficult maybe I guess she just smiled focus on her work her job and she's doing well he's doing really well in in her own position and last year I eat we talked and she told me about race the her salary excellent that's wonderful cool even the imposter syndrome well I am a working class person from what's called a P. U. L. community in Belfast the Protestant unionist loyalists identity and I did an arts and humanities PhD so yes I am well acquainted because you're not supposed to do any of these things you're not supposed to get an education or B. RT farting where I come from so that's probably an indication behaving quite rebellious but also it's amazing hi many from that community are really rebellious and do those things people from working class backgrounds there's just something intrinsically artistic up white people and they need and desire and I know that you have to break through a lot of social norms to be yourself even if yourself isn't really that radicalization to the rest of society you know twenty twenty four assists are considering my own constant imposter syndrome and how it feels like it can live very much in you working you can spend two days waiting on a roll you write something down you're doing something else to say like what do you do and why you doing this and aside from any issues with your and your lucky nope within all of us I think the sun realty is a female descent person all this is that it's almost like it's been in greens in nearby I've come from a musical background as well and I would President Johnson bonds that never ever regarded itself as a female fronted bond for every single bill you on there like well dressed female came to bones no smell the necessary things to get people to comb and then now I feel like I have this kind of issue with being written down or recorded us feminists ports and please don't smoke free right away to school science and heard because my work is going to be program and it's going to be a pro and marginalized persons and groups but lots of movies I want to help the female artists we don't have that and then the office analysts at this late I realize this because it's something it's a gas problems that white people do I don't know but it bothers me I can't recall the spot a little phone bills I think it's putting you in your place it is maybe we should start using the term %HESITATION this mail postal mail radio broadcasting hello this male journalists like so many years of being the only woman on a bill and then your way to the top of the children C. mobile service do you mind and everything going for the men and that's very frustrating so that on my own of course there was an imposter syndrome when you make in the woods when this is what you'll be met with way more often than not for every for street in port that's why I guess to go back you need to have things like community and we need to build each other up and realize that you call a syndrome means with that in mind I guess when I asked Kay and %HESITATION how kind collaboration empower us and why should we collaborate on he couldn't do huge chunk of what I do with that collaborates and %HESITATION basically in my work mainly now this creative producer among fish production side would come with a huge range of different all this and creative people in all sorts of settings using a range of difference all forums whether tops music soundscape vision loss the act that may K. %HESITATION huge Paul thought this collaboration on a spool sort of thinking about why I think collaboration is important for me is given the sort of the current climate that worldly mommy Kareena walked troops if you like for twenty twenty off walk cold three scenes connective itty so connecting with others and I don't necessarily mean this justice in an artistic or creative way but generally is connecting with as many people as I possibly calm and also not necessarily online I think we do a lot of spending time online %HESITATION dust sprays but sometimes it's not grease compaction and I told me not in a cool complexions so quick but maybe I do but I mean compassionate really strong power a full way connected in the complexion with so that is a critical thinking thinking critically thinking about the world from a range of different perspectives I'm one of looked at those three watchwords of full cooperation is absolutely key from my perspective to make an old of those three things happened and as a creative person making those things happen so connected with %HESITATION there is hope and compassion and support me on to this to think critically and I think collaboration as of Oct of solidarity so whether you're working with another office to make some than what you would do with the community to make or to engage together and make something happen solidarity on low fought with it it's a really active it's not a possibility we talk about the act of solidarity and I think in terms of international women's day and while we all as just one example of those many things I think that's really important to build each other up I think collaboration is really important for all of us here in terms of support in building each other up I think if rich's might create practice whenever I'm working with somebody it allows me to see something from a range of different perspectives %HESITATION it supports me to make working the way I look the Wiest wouldn't even think about Mary Kay so I think that's really important I think eighteen tombs all of the current climate cooperation over competition I think it is absolutely important strategically as alternatives to talk about the patriarchy the ghost of patriarchy and as an alternative to capitalism and neoliberalism the idea of cooperation and the power of thought the power to do that and I think that's why it's no accident the humanities and all in creative subjects are being hammered out with universities and how may doubt spoon because they don't want to creative critical thinking skills I'm not sweat our work as creatives is just so valuable to smash in the system basically keeping it going and keep a hold of communities go with and I think yeah in the current climate keep in those stories flowing and providing women and non binary and female people with the space to remarks in the Oldham option noble and dream for what can be dreamed and strong enough to support each other to make real the realities of the spaces we wish to say shopping is really important and I just found this on low for this quote real queens fix each other's crowns are not just hold that thought leadership thing about because I thought that was just a really lovely thing in terms of cooperation and working together I just thought that was a really lovely thing to do and a lovely thing to think about this and also I found a quote which I thought was really interesting for me Dana champagne cold I need to open I'm sorry if I'm gonna have pronunciation right if I need when women lead to slight committees do not feel the inequality we tend to forget something is not working and I think that's a with a shot across the bows about intersectional let's see %HESITATION you know I'm very conscious that to all intents and purposes on the white woman and you know what I experience a range of the privileges %HESITATION you know to be mindful of the fact that it's been mindful of old all wine to different experiences as women put that goal box collaboration I think it Gadot as huge opportunity to learn from other people who have a variety of life experiences and that was the full set of cable with but I think the power that we have this collaboration and the power to smash the patriarchy basically through continued to collaborate and be creative we need creative people now like the finance it needs great people check I would like to ask Jess you fools on the process of wanting to take a Cray if possible make a new creative path in your life than you would if you practice but feeling like you might have constrains by society by culture by gender by finance how do we encourage each other to kind of make the big league so small changes to work towards getting to where we want to be in how do we encourage each other to do that I think this is something I've rarely felt recently so I went from being in in a full time job for like two years and then I've recently holds about six months ago now I left and came down to part time and during that time I was in that job world even those in the office you almost got yourself in a mindset okay I'm still being creative I'm into all its related job this is okay and then about three or four months and I was very young women I'm not to my curation I'm not do not want to do and when I was kind of cheesy city were free not still I'd have to take a whole day in my role I'm like why not okay the anyway I then left that job role and became part time I'm on my finances all I you know I am struggling a lot right now full the amount of opportunities are hot and you know my curation taken off of No Way diving just said if I was still in that job role it probably take me about two years still been in the jungle to get what I've done in the past six months don't find not the saw that it's almost like a juggling process and I think we should get those creative people as well you know a lot of people will have the job the family at the house and you know a past %HESITATION my first week the oldest them plus a creative practice I think we just got so forgetful not sometimes I think I've definitely learnt recently that it needs to be that I need to listen to myself from where I am right now and that is okay I got a third of that feeds into this whole process syndromic I am I think we get so drilled into comparisons to all those in the %HESITATION what they're doing right now they sometimes do to think okay realistically what do I need right now but even I'm thinking now okay maybe I need to get these projects some watch online deal and then maybe go back into full time for a bit I can get a bit more money and then drop it down again maybe that awaits me I think it's been mindful and supportive of the people around you is while he may be I can go through a similar situation and then speaking in terms of society and culture so I whipped full the Liverpool biennial in two thousand eighteen as a curatorial training AT I'm we were having a chat with a lot of the women who were in the office and I actually hot one of my colleagues asked me canasta SO you ever want to have kids in your life as a something of thinking about it like what the time was like I'm twenty three now it can be this is way off and she was like I'm gonna tell you this now as a support women in the industry do not have children until you are in a comfortable role where if you take a densely you can jump right back in and I was like what was that was I think she was I'm telling you now it's been loads of women who she knows what they've taken maternity leave %HESITATION they've gone back into the organization and then they just drop the light up and then they also help stop the creative path again that's really not okay %HESITATION needs to be voice not unusual voices women to change that in the industry it is important as women that we all not just be mindful self mean mindful of the women around us who we get support from I'm checking in with everyone and seeing if they're okay what advice would you give to someone in a situation where they were like I feel trapped in well I'm in now when I want to get to a certain place you talk about believing in yourself yeah that's obviously a huge step in I remember someone saying to me not that long ago believe in yourself it sent a shiver up my spine yeah because I was like wow that's the first step post it's not the only step because the so many so many challenges and I'm just wondering how we can advise people almost or five P. is to go understand everyone passing understand the room needs you know how did you come to that point really well did you or did you just suddenly just fall into it I guess but the alternative is that sometimes it doesn't necessarily involve is thrown out the whole process sometimes you just find ourselves in situations that what would you say to another person who was finding itself in a similar environment to the terms he I do think I have been quite lucky in the opportunities I've hot well I am very driven myself anyway I have such a strong work ethic and I again I don't have to stay in with class and northern of always been able to think you know what if I want something I'm gonna have to with bloody hot together I will get it well I'm going to have to wait for the hot I'm almost always set up to make public since I was like in ages I think that is just important in yourself I think that has always been my drive to be like okay I'm going to be a great cure it one day well it's going to be hard to is to get the I do not think it should go back to the scientific community and collaboration not we should be using our voice with people I'm just really been supportive because I know that my Cheney is completely different to the express and sit next to me and I think my advice would be to maybe it's okay to take a step back and reflect on your Cheney on what you're doing and all the people in your community and going that way too you can have these conversations with to be honest and open minded and just be you know this is where I wanna go how do I get that old even if its financial advice even times if I'm working full time both got a family to Rome I wanted to make her practice is there a way of me trying to juggle a lot I think it's just about reflection with anything convince full of one of the I was just when Jeff was talking I was reminded of this really great campaign that was started in Ireland called waking the feminists that was a bag is essentially challenging the gender bias in arts and critically and future in Ireland this happened after the centenary of the nineteen sixteen rising in twenty sixteen the abbey seizure which is the theater in Ireland commissions I can't remember the exact amount of place that they'd commissioned or writers of the commission of the charge of the moment I think it was two women yes two women out of sixteen all the women and people of the country were like hi yes wash is going on I was just thinking about use this really powerful thing that I read in a thesis last grown you Pollock ropes called staying awake which was Iran's the waking the feminists think she wrote it for her masters and they submitted powerful quotes in advance the idea of you have to go away to make a human person and then you come back and says women often find themselves marginalized and stigmatized and aren't likely to be defined by the superiors as not committed to a career this leasing opportunities for upward advancement however or last this is the person that the coaches also pointed at motherhood actually helped her work life balance she said I started leaving at five o'clock because I have to crash pickups and that was the first time in my life that I kept my hours so it kind of was helping to keep we believe that having my kids made me a more balanced and better worker bush for those who do resume their careers and future some find their views through a new unfavorable lands palm voids and Irish writer and actor articulates a subtle manifestation of this being a motor instantly ranges you as less of a thinker less ambitious less interesting Fiona recalls feeling like this really old housewife that was coming out and trying to pretend to be an artist %HESITATION her return to the sector one female artist or artist as we like thank you for the purpose of this as I think it's important that they specify the response of the arts council commissions research on the living and working conditions of arts and art and expressed an active decision not to have children as a result of the lack of support I would never have children she says I chose my path knowing the conditions that lay ahead but could not subject them on children not without some financial security so this is not a new thing it's not and in a lot of this activist work or even just working S. I mean my activism and being an actress or very much complacent in doctor refer spect I always try to think about people and their families and how that fits in so when I was starting this project called most of it is sky the musical of sorts I made sure that I told people who wanted to be part of the project status people with children are welcome that children can be involved not to worry about commitments arrange childcare bring them with you if you want to be part of this it's totally fine and the same thing in terms of activism with acorn one of our youngest acorn heads is %HESITATION wonderful little girl calls later his two and a half your parents are amazing I think the person who I look up to last as a researcher is her mother winds that blow she's a researcher at Newcastle University our branch here in new castle new castle a cornice specifically very open at base grace and children in activism and we were thinking about use how do we facilitate coming crash stuff he has unique bass and I think in the world to where more we've been down binary people trans people even trans men who might be wanting to have children we need to start thinking about yourself hello we provides the sort of services I think employers in the arts sector you need to be a lot more proactive and you know a lot more understanding of Asian family life and stuff like that I mean it's not necessarily a big thing for me most I would fight to the ends of the earth to have that for somebody else again it comes back to that idea to supporting each other and working together and listening I think listening is a big thing sometimes just having an ear to run tests or I would say that a lot of the people who participated in the research for waking the feminists were just really happy to be able to be listened to what about the issues that they were experiencing as women and people making future making creative stuff in Ireland and I'm sure it's the same situation here there just hasn't been a countrywide speak thing I mean this is a big country with a bigger population I think the fact that you're running curatorial collective is a really great thanks to the makes me really proud to be your friend but I mean just just one not really weird though that you know it's twenty twenty and I was sad that I need to worry about if I want to have a child in the future is not okay is not normal I mean I'm sure we all think that as women anyway people especially in the creative sector I think to start a movement I feel like maybe it needs to be you know something we do speak about more because you know even this conversation how to just in the containers a couple shows kind of thing radical crashes yeah radical approaches her rental leave I think we need to be more Raj but that's always my and isolation yeah so I'm gonna read she just sort of thing because well there's a white full size class strings that are about having a family and also for people who maybe want a different work life balance so one of the different lifestyle why should people be excluded from the arts and creative industries because they won't finally old because they have elderly relatives to care for all that the woman to science hall for them life we can creatively Avenue the halls with something else that they want to do that it seems that it's a wine to discussion of bites how industries all constructed its mountains that is incredibly toxic patriarchal this is what you do nine times out of ten for a lot of people that this is what they do people have lives outside and I think it makes for a more creative people to know all the food in the midnight common goal every single night to get an exhibition will probably show waldholtz whatever G. so I think it just feels incredibly punishing to the same quarter they set to use for example %HESITATION you know don't have any elderly relatives will be a United supporter okay I rolled a spam so RuPaul who needs additional support to lower you know but I think it's really interesting as well in terms of gender it's really just wanna go head dresses the only time I read read women's magazines and you see the man and should be done about the scenes of let Justin if you and then you see the women in the field and this is always my res with so many children or not mom didn't doesn't have children still lots late and I was always very mindful of the writer and journalist Caitlin Moran he said she was at the B. nas when he helping children no but when the option good option in an interview just about musical writing what happened and she kind of fell is this a way of people she saves me when he couldn't get lost when you gonna make space for a bloke to common to inhabit the space inside the box really interested or when you're going to make space for the next woman or person who can become pregnant take your space for that little bit of time so they can have their like you know a couple of years of a career and a lady like fade into obscurity this is miss I think there's another aspect of this as well which is the idea that will so openly and comfortably ask you such personal questions about your decisions on your body the idea that it's okay to ask somebody that acts I mean it's not too I do believe it is anyway and less you personally know the more you you know have a logical reason to be asking that question you wouldn't say someone so what's going on with your bottles okay tell me about your loans to you do you don't I mean you wouldn't ask someone a personal question about the body at the end of the day it's not just about your lifestyle it's not just about you'll would call you'll eat like Hugh you also also proxy choosing to allow your body to do something that's so personal the fact that we can ask someone a question about having a child and that's okay in your place of work someone could say to you %HESITATION you're going to have children but you wouldn't save them so %HESITATION did you have sex last night do you know what I mean it's not actually they're completely links like why is that okay and other things on okay in the is something about the way that we just expect that women are going to make those decisions and actually you know this is such a multitude of reasons why someone might not want to have children who might not be able to have children and actually asking someone a question like that you don't know who you're sending offering potentially you don't even know if they were signs that gender that they have it this semester you could be talking to someone who actually talked to a child because there's so many reasons why those conversations shouldn't be forced upon us we can choose to have them and have them in the in the environment that we want to with the people that we want to have them with but the idea that those questions should be false promises just seems bogus to me %HESITATION saved from my enemies who is not celebrity who was asked in an interview well I have favorite position walls of Simeon this expedition have responsible CEO I was like yeah yeah even just not questions like why was she even assign an interview it was a radio interview Stephen ask Amanda you know on Facebook when like I mean I don't enjoy Facebook you don't like things and I still have one for some reason but you know what it's like your Facebook memories I thought it was such an after memory for today it was from a couple years ago and it was a status that I put up I was like on the eve of international women's day I waited with bated breath to see if one of the top human rights lawyers in the world would just be spoken to about her amazing accolades as a human rights lawyer but no they asked her how her marriage was going with George Clooney only god's amount Clooney is amazing she's an amazing human rights lawyer what are you doing why are you asking about it what's it like to be married to the most handsome man of the world who cares nobody asked him what's it like to be married to one of the top human rights lawyers in the world that's right when we talk about it in this kind of lands it is so crazy that this is the norm it's because I'm the big talk I always feel very on the outside because it's almost like it's just not possible to me because it's not something I've ever been to I know loves books my response whether it's from family friends strangers della is always polite and also and so set up so you'll change it to nine come on no why can't you just have a definite answer %HESITATION pretty certain most often I don't think that needs to be fit to face %HESITATION bus but it's very very frustrating and I feel like in terms of optimism and continuing the conversation and some option and looking over the narrative you just have to keep questioning %HESITATION I guess being not arrested Patel indignities views to people because they suddenly the questions are going to keep on communities opinions also live on the cost of this technology shift opinions of concern conscription down because that's the only way forward with these things I just wanted to see if there was anything else that Poland wanted to act any thoughts on yeah probably if he just a quick thought on the interrogations over pregnancy and parenthood and so on one difficulty is being interrogated so much and make she wonder I don't know what my reasons are any more for making a decision one way or another because I'm not sure how you want to talk to me I have anymore so that's just a really quick point of mine that I suppose it's a nice opportunity to say that I suppose on the issue of collaboration and hopefully the speak see what we're talking about more broadly as well I just thought of it the podcast is a nice example of that because for me personally I've been trying to transition from somebody he analyzes culture to somebody he produces culture on this podcast is a way of trying to do both at the same time so it straddling these different identities I started it for me to see can I do this but also as is happening status the reading of the thing is I wanted to be able to use that to platform other people so this is a really nice collaborative effort that I hope will be the first of many more to come so thank you all so much so it took by lifting each other up putting each other out for me and just being a part of that's really nice thank you offer to sing it right now it is so wonderful wonderful work do you have any thoughts on that means the things I've talked about %HESITATION this lovely to be here and something to talk about I am not responsible maybe I'll get pregnant I thought the food this is nothing but it's normal for me but today and all is non normal is tending quality right so asking woman yeah why do I do I still none this question do you remember the last time someone asked you about whether or not you would be able to live there is a Helen to being asked about to Linda along again R. E. yeah I'll listen being asked this question is my house is my thing is none of your business how does it make you feel if someone asks you do you want to get married only very annoying on this question until six while this is being so feel like this is the beginning of something to be continued I think maybe that's yes maybe that's why we can go from there you've been listening to audio visual cultures this me Paula Blair Rachel Grech Claire Murphy Morgan Carolina hand Jessica Bennett Jenny McDermott's and Caroline this episode was produced by Rachel Breck recorded by Paula Blair and reach a brick an edited by Paul the player the music is common ground fair to licensed under a creative Commons noncommercial three point zero attribution and is available at the SEC mixer don't work episodes are released every other Wednesday subscribe on your podcast app so you never miss any release we can't currently cover the costs of hosting but the fill back catalogue can be fined on my you tube channel if you search for P. A. prior and it's also linked patrie on on the episode PH of audio visual cultures DOT wordpress dot com if you can contribute funding to continue this work regular donations to the leper at pay dot com forward slash PP a player for one of two nations to pay pal dot me forward slash PP a prior are hugely appreciated be part of the conversation with AP cultures post on Instagram and Davey cultures on Facebook and Twitter thank you so very much for listening caption next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 44 – Performance Art Against Violence with Elvira Santamaría automated transcript


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hello and welcome to audio visual cultures a podcast that examines aspects of signed an image based cultural production and its implications and wider issues around it I'm Paula Blair and the host and creator and I'm very pleased to be joining you this time from Belfast my home city I've come over for a bit of the visit and I'm recording this short introduction during a while Kerry that rather lovely botanic gardens and so I spell fast I'm very close to the awesome museum for a bite to mates as their assent the Maria Torres she is an international nines performance artist and action artist will hopefully have a really fascinating chat about her work that you'll get a lottery does justice saying it really big thank you to everybody who Spain sharing and liking and engaging on social media it's a really huge help sabi ko CA and thanks as well to our regular supporters on Patreon there aren't many if you put the ones you have are so appreciative of what each day to find out how to support us financially and how to support by sharing and social media stick with us at the end and I'll be back with information about that person I I really hope you enjoy this conversation with my name is Sylvia Santa Maria I'm originally from Mexico I'm a performance artist I now based in Northern Ireland in Belfast I have been based here for almost ten years between Mexico and Belfast I must say that I travel a lot because my work performance our demands on performance there are other terms I think could be maybe just unpack some of the terms that we can apply because C. D. pro sass arts and a range of different approaches like performance installation and action art how do you feel about the sorts of labels on your work what do you feel it is see J. in Spanish I use the term October action out of the action on the generic for dot con to call her performance art durational performance process are osis gesture starting to gestures to combine with photography order performance installation I told you and maybe something else I'd like to label what time do we because that tells me not to classify the No Way or organize only certain ways to perform but it kills me to reflect what time what is doing it for four months what are the elements data for performance art in how are you really working on that for example time would correspond to rational performance if I'm interested in the process how one working with time that is very important to focus on that and also to save people this is about time so I said I'm going to do our process our process peace means that I'm not aiming a resort but to go into a process that people connect with on this end to intervene the proposal of the materials the space and certain principles of I'm going to apply we take us somewhere in a journey in that process for the support and even called a chamber performance our performance that happened in a close call she space give me the chance to deliver some people focused on that without any disturbance maybe I can arrange in a wake up lights to make something special like it maybe in the Asian chambers chambers C. new Grange you know there are places something this special hop in there and we need to place for example that is the need for me to label but these are more of a work of conceptual work in my in performance art or action thank that point if I indication then you work and site but there's a lot of our site as well a lot of site specific where I'm just thinking about it any work you've done in Mexico and I've seen images of and there you may be dating last things like violent or traumatic memory you know I've seen images with the with the channels and your toes and the objects that you'll find in claims and the actual landscaping things what do you feel are the differences are in the different materials with the spaces that you're working with it whether it's between an indoor event or something like that that's an option for me is very important to consider a space or even fifty tuition costs part of the larger war or even an element that will be fine what to do materials as well I used to say that I don't use I don't materials I dialogue with them I really am not using any I don't think I don't know what the space I don't know what the situation and I dealt with the materials that cost to be really a concentration focus there that we can be part of like the famous they we can collaborate with me I if I don't need your vote to eliminate them that is based for example on this the streets and to I have to consider that to be a part of that if a person is only because I'm in the public space and have to deal with that part of the not a problem that comes in the store I would never consider dot on it to come the firm of architects the allies he Katie in the reality social physical political reality in that context tweet anything so we have to be prepared for yeah really stating that we have to be awake in the moment to take on all this and just thinking about you saying collaborating with the winds I think probably one of the first actions I ever saw he was on Helen's bay at the base something with I think it's been liner by the plastic banks are you know when hi I'm making huge string of I'm so there's these beautiful shapes Manson across quite make area spans with the by do you have a name %HESITATION what do you think it is in general when they do these kind of works I don't have any title actually did try to come up to I kind of took the country deal for me but for my company I don't know what will happen in for me the title of puppies a performance or even to conserve told the station customer come up before I'm dealing with the reality that I don't know that because I have experience I could visualize something but you never know and I know that's a performance artist because the prices kind of company and even with very simple things like the plastic white box I said okay this is three may be able to afford in the night twenty two with many many I didn't know how it's going to take a look at that and then I remember rob myself you don't die didn't all these plastic possible when my body was also part of this process that they didn't know that I wanted to do so it's quite late today so the captain and I make might make my notes and reflected sometimes I found poetry that is correct so the title or the name even the concept of the station deeper way state because I have always had previous idea permissible to do have always finding the show lady but afterwards because most of the production I thought some of the Titans it's a nice idea that idea of collaborating with the elements arranging because you're harnessing it but then you being close to asylum in Europe but against yourself or you're just finding a way of visualizing the wind away almost do you find the right to come something your work quite a bit the eighty three two or repetitive actions other things that you need to work through for no for our work in different ways it's interesting for me because I can tell you I've never seen this before yeah sure and we know that always really never the same but I'm not really interested to get this talking please yeah I'm really interested to explore again and again with some of the material the space over my phone number to the station when I once and even if people like it if I didn't like it was not on the way to discover something new or even just to do with the way I want I go again and repeat the idea for me to %HESITATION when I step to the performance in nineteen ninety two tweet I really made a kind of rituals really we kind of believe it really performance of sometimes with my lord I have a Norse there to take my blood tonight make with that tweet hold to watch the storm can I make a transfusion of my block to the store calling eight I think I called that performance no nation for that you can use like fire force anyway the doors I kind of chamber performance but better to only stick with many elements the only element we told that the west not to repeat it to you to repeat but yes many elements Qatar sees not told is a ghost which to cut taxes but to storm performances in the beginning of my practice what really good tactic people cry and I didn't the card to myself like that but that in no way the bees make people enter in a story forty nine number to leave in a story that the narrative that triggered something in them but to also give them a space in a place to deal with emotions sometimes if you don't understand what what I was doing but to hold when you do decide I cry because I went to the store anyway sometimes I do something like a kind of ritual for example the last performance I have children dead weight was smoke portrait I smoke a trust the last of my face seems like I'm burning my face but just the glass enough to turn the glass is covered with the smoke in my face disappear and I'm dressing in black and I'm four and then they do something like drawing back to smoking make a drawing on my face on the smoke inductees in the meantime we be done several times only performance the door was with variations introduction or a DM depending in the place in the culture with the people I am is not the same when I do we do in Latin America Mexico when I it's not the same but I D. N. the big element that people seem to want to I want to bring them burning smoking the glass have you noticed any other differences in hi spectators react between Latin America and Europe or UK or Arden's and terms is it cathartic in fact some of the aspects of it do you find that it's different emotionally or does it depends what kind of thing that you do yes can be very different from one culture to another depends query takes place if I do the street actions usually mural people tried to ignore it because many think Scott people don't want to be part of a joke Suffolk County Kameron I didn't this time Mexico for example in Mexico and Latin America in general people in the small room willing to assist you they didn't have a problem with it usually they are going to do that you'll have a problem he's ordered to ask you what is going on or they take time to stand in front of the jewel in the center of your to be read out what you are doing and it's not the OSC in Dayton literally I mean to run because people want to talk about and I like that because I kind of stopped to talk about when I speak with people I'm not talk about all these performance on to my lord no I'm talking about people what is the concern of people that they have seen in my password in Europe is difficult in Northern Ireland people come to that the two people can be very tough officer Blane performing my life and I'm learning approach in public space but he told the people depict the culture of the city sometimes the point of a person passing by in doing something the artwork could change completely upside down and I have to be prepared to embrace it and continue with that change the issue of contingency is a really quickly one and performance art invites Martin general where you see artists are the most wonderful person in the room or the area whatever it might be because anything could happen and I think most audience members we tend to stand back and think there's a natural barrier that forms probably because we are fairly cherry and spice cinnamon cedar to not step over us wrestles you can comment for everything and you don't know if you're doing something I decide whether somebody's going to come up in a call she or demand to know what you're saying or whatever it's really fascinating to think about cultural differences from place to place where you might be doing that because you're internationally performing all over the world the T. or so I'm very conscious about would do or say to please recent history and help people close to close and sell the motion to vote for the motion on the part there there was a bunch of sometimes the mechanisms of resilience mechanisms in ourselves too close for many things portability so violence aggression and you can see their doctors performance Oct is a notion my purpose or my aim is not to make myself vulnerable even if I become a notable because I go to a public space for example can I do something that is out there your phone calls and that is a provocation wanted or not it's a privilege log to I'm interested to learn it do not force them to be very conscious what do you want to do that what do you want to be at the front of the to be you want to give something to people something for sixty think about something negative %HESITATION just self assessment data always is good to get the results you want and then okay now I want to do this because I want to tell this to the P. ten something like a one people for example something that maybe should have them connected in order to the city that is very strange like in a dream what happened to me and then maybe he does and then one of these options might be part of his life like a dream to work something out something in the deeper or any different levels maybe being forgotten it's quite we need to know very well already tensions in public or in close indoor spaces because I'm not sure really it really is powerful thank another person tweeted I did talk about any exhibitions you've been part of his wild because there are times when you're not necessarily working life for your working life as part of this may be a collective exhibition or something like that and there was one last year and I didn't get to see it unfortunately but you were part of the points arts festival just a few months ago we check to tell us a bit about that yes I was invited by the human don't know debt to be cold Connery with another four artiste female artist to make this exhibition what sort do make exhibitions but he knew that we had some remarks that might be interested to see a site or performances I present to that came out to a follow up persist please that they made enough Salvador so I wouldn't dare to a village that ten seventy one a big muscle car thousand people children women and old people were massacred by the Salvadoran are they wanted to call today resources in the sympathies in a radical way to the curriculum and the massacre many many people and I want to go with them let's see what happens after so many years colorless the please help people cultivate their memory hold the memory of help people leave after that because they're still alive people so when they're in I was speaking with people some crucial for David please I mean all the people living there had lost a member of the committee in documents in my process I want to walk to the healers people describing you know here the girls of the village were taken and raped and then more of the same wasn't very very strong so was so strong and so hopeful that in one moment I asked myself how do he and B. anyway some of the stories that way and then I'm going to focus now in this short sure wait in the gallery these are a settlement on how to approach is there these are proces it was just there looking at that very very rare it was very busy because he's really like which is the quality of the soil but anyway it makes total sense the next step to discover these because people and then a person from the village told me maybe there are many the army said there are shopped on the village no wonder everyone to just the food to be destroyed this call for those so was horrible what's that mean island's western made I used I stopped him I didn't want to do anything on March because I felt overwhelmed by that and then they start just to I don't want to safely but in no way to explore explore the quality physical quality and I reached out the image putting these past conflicts between my toes and then I said this is the steps of memory I told you before that the Titans come after hours many hours I was three days many hours only for that picture and I said and then I published in my website sure so that and he told me I wanted that is the way to continue to be a part of an exhibition for cities even discover any image through a process or sometimes a couple ideas maybe I need one of these buttons it's going to show me something for many times these different articles and then I said this is the picture but anytime there's some conformity that supports in a kind of investigation I mean much of the day delivered a summer photography or even up the deal if you haven't done much the title of the exhibition was I stepped outside and she stepped in again yes it's really fascinating title and then just what's come out of that one image no be say that was an amongst other works by other women artists but that idea so I stepped out and she stepped in again I'm thinking about eight different steps that you're maybe re treading but you're walking amongst where people had been before Ford violent things that happened before it's a really wonderful title that fits you come up with that title was huge because he wanted us to perform in maybe create a dynamic performed together and create a dynamic where we come in we need collaborate by taking the place of the order maybe the materials and three troll %HESITATION Israeli Spanish writer on women's issues including back the action to maybe just Peter over performance all performance in become really gauge collaboration that's why he decided when he told me and they even took photos over his performance would be part of that in nineteen really emerging in a kind of Oregon these elements of the older participants I was really rooting for me and very interesting to develop these dynamics suggested or proposed by him I was wondering is will affect the use of body performance argument that's your primary to really as the body but this one does body come up or do you think it comes up as the same very much in your work or is it parts of the body because I mean what if just talks but there is centered radio on your face my feet are doing and where they are and what they're engaging with you know or and other works is seen you do it you're putting something together with your fans wondered what you thought about that to you how much your body comes in what is the ideal body or their relation to deal with B. the parliament or so given that we are for some performance artist especially jumper from one side to the domino in the sectional very often %HESITATION moment in our lives I'm very concerned about so they go to the polls the naked body or difficult to explore our or expecting any closer to the house in relation with that sexual or gender equality I was never interested in that I was never had this concern the day was considered in depressants Dodge journey for stability to be president the president is more complex the presence of body odour mental faculties believes no also because you'll be late with your your body my word my body is my presence in my presence I want to bring with this residence reveals something can be on a hunt can be to hit could be the whole body I used to dress in black to neutral is a little bit in the meeting but cannot because of the lack of custom made but anyway do not put all the content that I don't want people to focus and then explore and explore the reality of the site I found that my body will perform I wanted to make the I went to benefit to local deadlines I didn't want it to stay which is I mean you know Salvador I felt so so bad yeah and I felt that that was such a kind of sacred line of people to die innocent people and I do want to stay yes Sir six quite when or then I discovered that happens like that usually my performance or could I have a clear idea of what they want to engage my body the way neat but for me it is all right I think are you more likely since the mind body yes not only me but my place to get the police report I don't want to be by did make these two companies in this one this one is the way to be a person that is more than the body but we don't that body I cannot be if it's all right then three thank you bye your collaborations and your work is part of the collective be beyond based in Belfast maybe some of the events connected right manager involvements you on your own in your own right sure and international artists and you perform follow and everywhere else and have collaborated twice many different artists as well but hi does not compare with being part of a member of a collective and how important is being part of a collective and what you do as well four means he's fun tastic that to be beyond axes a subgroup that diversifies at the same time in a collective collaborative group to perform and also in the group that organized and tried to promote performance there's different aspects BBM and sometimes for me so I need to the morning one or another sometimes I need to promote events some ideas that I have in in I collaborate with the committee notice from others to enjoy because I enjoy very much when I perform in this way black market he is one of the few collective soul groups the company's two lasting D. for performance for me but the social collective organized a couple yes to promote but also defended the art because easy to establish performance not only in the art scene and then the country bought in dialogue with the people they're always there something wrong oversees the store being close to someone that is part of existence I think it's part of racing questions through in the particular way to collaborate with them easy to resting spot sometimes I don't find any connection with them there's I don't find that they've really collaborate they repeat and repeat and repeat very much the same there's not really risking then I got part a little bit I am but I support it so we need to collaborate you don't and I'm going to just call me when I find a good idea to collaborate for me there's not collaboration if you choose to be to get them to do the same for me this is not collaboration collaboration is a dialogue in these are the date I debate in action that kind of report I've read really the margins of reflections in poetic that the business section talks about repeating monthly meetings maybe doesn't allow us to read actually now that I don't know if you decide to rescind that we don't have the time to reflect well we have we need to propose into work how to come together in different ways what do we need to debate not only in that to reflect about what we are doing in other teams around the practice I suppose and if it's okay can I ask you about your experience of being in Northern Ireland you know what's that like for you as an artist trying to work here in Maine he said earlier this is been the most challenging probably place for you to perform the check on my lamontagne times you know I've spent a lot of time when I was living here going to the baby on this month place and being quite peripheral to those things you for a while I think it was almost my own spoken job to be the person who media's it's with the general public and people would be up at free excited by what was going on and so I was the person say their artists you know they're just playing there just having playtime attention you can join in a few months you know and you get talking to drug addicts or alcoholics that we're sitting rounded writer square or families on the beach and that sort of stuff I was quite fun for a bit but yes it must be I think because here and it's okay for me to say this you never know when it could tip over into violence there's always a hint of a threat there so is wondering how they how do you feel how does it affect you being here which is in general Northern Ireland has been difficult for me it is a very different culture no the Mexican language I thought that date I mean the list within the but if they told you before this interview I'm kind of dyslexic that when I need to speak another language and my in the last maybe two years it took a little bit with the peak in March in the war so that you see what is the weight what is good for that but it has been very difficult the language especially the information with the performance only in public spaces when I do something in the same sort of space accent but I'm very interested to explore on my own and I can donate the public the space in really enter into a dialogue with people and if I get that that would be a big achievement for me have a big achievement in you for something solo and Kamera so I can buy some witnesses and maybe a camera connecting couple but from far away and let the action speaks for itself and see if I can connect with people of people even if they don't like it I can make a dialogue with them engage with you know they go with them it reflects that this is my name but for me to be a great country another thing that jokes because just on all the general it is very important because it is part of the eighty group or a social construction group but I also like once I realized that I the store to the context six people mostly that I don't know what Nigel cracks I explain joke is is what anyway because the two ladies with identity and identity has to be with the authors and the authors important this could have been made one tree speaking this country like China the weather the weather or see something else I need some but I did maybe you don't like like before but they could see their myself with a good performance artist would make problems in action yeah I mean that I learned how to feed myself please continue to leave the country how to make the best what I have and then I I do like rainy days but that's because time to before and read and write it's waking them up from they're working retain muscle awhile ago I'm just trying to think back because this is probably a few years ago nine a lot of the places you were doing was sold I'm worried in case of mixing it was Brian as well because I I know that what she did when you were lying on the crimes and the soul was on a black sheet or piece of paper or something but ever since I can remember anyone that was an umbrella yeah so that will miss in Germany which has been using salt is immaterial I use for in the same way I have the two all the time to come from the only two time off to work this one in Canada in two thousand seven I made up Rosi's there three days four hours per day with a couple different elements and I'm all those I was when I start to blow Seoul nice way to shape to draw some something you there was a accident on the floor that makes something and just for me to do that in the that day do you have for a while indeed my lord king other concerns about makes you call that like to know about the situation come try G. I put in this short to express something about the former got the idea to draw down makes the kind for a long time and that took me down to Mexico Oaxaca in the contemporary art museum in Oaxaca forty days eight hours per day I started with for mountains he also talked to the middle share and that was great was when the camera filming it was an exhibition at the same time you enter a room one got into two rooms the first thing you find out who she each each time and then continue to the next room and I'm I didn't see that coming this is very high you see only me working there and then when you go to see them up because there's less is more please for forty three days she makes I don't I have to make these these Mexico what kind of what we did tonight any of these G. G. we have a big disadvantage of Mexico and I agreed from that time even the drug dealers that's to do with these two countries so I want to develop that is why I made to September last September the second part of this project and they need to go to the United States to freeze I kind of decided have some chances I hope so I'm not thinking about it yes but also the joker fan of these places and geopolitics as well that must come straight whether even if it's not explicit but it must be an implicit same coming straight weather here and Mexico Canada and the states anywhere else in America or here in Northern Ireland to miss Mary Anne I guess you mean has anything been coming up with by borders and borderlands something that I need to find ways to get into it maybe they don't have to go posted June or in England maybe which the two went to concrete to %HESITATION to finish this idea these three countries and I have to be very interesting responses from both pieces Dr command tonight this call for dialogue and what that common sense not to send people to drive to the east coast to debate I was thinking because it's such a huge confidence he feel like comment that it's so far away from Mexico but really you're quite close neighbors in terms of there's this one country between you but actually that joined together in this he comes in and the miles so what were the responses like in Canada when it was shaping that tomorrow blowing it up by blowing it's not like your pain and try to make the proportion you know when you start to having office space to shape also United States in a little bit of Mexico but the main west kind of many people most interested in the meaning of what and I think it was interesting for them because it was you know he said the first question first question that salt mine but so many people was thinking what is the meaning of this concern you know thinking to talk them through their superstitions to I'm leaving meaning so we just have to perform that Mexico they all it does I think people that think that they don't believe in such things I would like what they want to like themselves to call them to make sure we have connected with the means we learn the number five our own and and then people just have to be concerned two courses also with salt but then there's other stores that I come to you short for example was used by the Romans cartage rebuilt I guess the Roman Empire in the Roman Empire defeated them they went to college and they must occur to people and they I didn't always short field landing fields to avoid to grow anything in many many years really but not to the concept that thank you to the store the people there all the all the people that were on but what's an effect on the and I thought it was the leading lady if your economy politics kind of countries in the country the launch of the countries in the last week yes yes that I could see the doctor to see these these economic twenty not to start Mexico to form in the crisis finish I called now with the new government talk to the call to solve many problems posted Oct the staff this is huge the problem is too big too big to be sold in six months but yeah I pointed I mean the legacies of colonialism on where another anywhere say that country if something is taken away from them your crafts or something and generations go by and the countries that originated thought to them saying Friday that love them and pay the people dying and don't align migration well actually it was your ancestors did it to them in the first place that's why all these problems arose and there's no then culpability there's no responsibility so maybe it's reminding people of that as well at school are white people and sensors because kind of problems in the heart we need to go to history memories we need to reflect what happened before they call me many of the economy they're not interested in politics all right right eight the right side of the duties individual concerns do you it is good to based on the biography we dialed the number you'll receive an introspective but I don't know if you ask me in my right he's really optimizing industry making more individualistic society one thing about this and last year or two years ago goodness it wasn't twenty seventeen in public you propose dot just a simple soon but that project to tell some fourteen and then I couldn't be here but the development assistant position and I think it was great we had the chance to see officials about performing in in what he but for many people we had some potential ideas ideals we are doing in the for example just before about speaking with people was watching outside yeah I think otherwise and we're really not committed to dialogue with people I think the schools these about these and other issues in from the west wind the only thing that the top very few people that is my only the rest was well organized and we need to continue that dialogue I have very fond memories of the site just happens to be in Belfast the way that it was happening and attended it huge monthly meeting that coincided with it people around that was not just the Vegas that file faster Northern Ireland ever seen but it may have been the biggest collective's performance action ten year effort because there were so many people there I scrambled around in chalk on thurs is right on the grind what people were doing in the you know so that was amazing but also what made it ready for me was that there was also this was an custom size square and both fast and I think it was said by gang or remote but I can clover something had also made that their meeting point at the same time for Hugh charting they were having so these chi quite massive sayings descended on this on the square in the city centre at the same time and we're perplexed by each other and it was incredible it was just something amazing and so the idea coming back operating with whatever syringae they couldn't help you find the same space I have to just exist side by side for but to truly do you try to go by we occupy we didn't give them much space to their he had to leave but anyway that was the potential for a please take therefore may be called for commenting laughing and all that one was okay not to any conflict there but didn't get it was fun moment that will keep me busy I the people to to come together usually he's here when a person decides to join or even the twenty five it was a bit difficult but I wrote feel free to join and talk in the growing nobody nobody second no because I had decided to be silent but it just right I was just describing everything that was not nice is right and she keeps saying you know I don't know what Chris still staying or Sandra striking a plan to really you know stuff like that just trying to make a pass on the insulation it was overwhelming how many people it was incredible more people in the state just to see what company it was classified it was quite remember it was unseasonably warm April day and there was I remember a woman sunbathing and she was there the whole time and she was still there when she made my cleaned up and she was still there two hours later when I went for the ball set so there were people he hung around and asked what was going on and some of the side of the side and just tried to explain it but hi could you explain welcome I think just curiosity and I can not coming from a place of either failing or demanding stress but just what's going on here all these people and when you explain to them what was happening this song okay well I'm here so this is what's happening then so it was kind of accepting expose it was a kind of critical mass that the depressed people to say okay there's a movement and Sir anything you would like to talk quickly detected Silas suburbia but something you're going to be working on %HESITATION ideas she got fifteen years working now in the project that calls for machines I plan to keep workshops which I call laboratories for people to they do reflect how he sees many things hello I'm not sure my gesture practice discipline whatever you want to do my instructor might help if you need an accountant or some kind the two point three wait to see yourself more positively when you achieve something in action in this position because I'm going to do it in Mexico I'm really committed to going to laboratories shops in different communities just trying to help this regarding the violence hi top in his company and his company HM my practice and also in the middle of some process that some patients to perform with black market it is still on in other exhortations to perform so is the best place to keep up to date with what you're doing with that P. on your website to publish some information on the place some place to perform and what is coming and I wanted to talk more of it although this is a project that I'm organizing with brand partners in this part of the IBM project this year in these human this process a performance artist I'd work is going to happen the week of the international women's day I proposed this project to be beyond the question all the members of the emergency more than seventy two hours and then we don't have something to just to focus and see what is the practice of mobile for most artistes in addressing the issues to the school so all that said that that week the technician and the second part would come may for twelve that's a nice thing often been talking for over an hour so thank you so much reading really wonderful thing the audio visual cultures with me call up there and my special guest appearance on the media this episode was recorded and Belfast and edited by all of their music keeping hearing aids the common grind by air shown basis under a creative Commons attribution three point zero and Stein noted both from CC mixer dot org if you are in doing what we're doing and you find it useful and interesting and you want to help us keep making more and to keep improving with every episodes please please please support to fire patrie on dot com forward slash AP cultures it's quite easy although it's in U. S. dollars if you're in the UK days quite easy it does all the changes for you and I just from as little as one dollar a month get you quite a lot of extra goodies in addition to the free app to suit every other week you can also support with one off donations of any amount of your choice by at PayPal dot me forward slash P. A. B. L. A. I. R. if you would like to keep in touch with us and be part of the conversation we're AT cultures on both Twitter and Facebook and you can have a look at the website for more information about everything that we're doing on audio visual cultures DOT wordpress dot com if you feel like you want to record something yourself and have it as part of our umbrella of the audio visual cultures general projects then give us a show is well let's see what we can date for nice thanks so much for listening and please keep supporting in putting everything ages so much appreciated thanks and catch you next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 43 – Sinéad O’Donnell, Crossing Permissions automated transcript


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hello I'm Paula player and G. are listening to audio visual cultures the podcast that examines aspects often issues around forms and modes of imagine sign based cultural production thanks to all our Patreon members and to everyone who's been listening sharing and engaging on social media to listen until the end to find out how to use this time I'm delighted to present performance artist Sinead o'donnell Sinead very kindly let me record to talk and performance she said with her exhibition at the millennium court arts centre and poured into line which is here after a few words for me recorded before hand and some of the signs you here are from shin it's performance that's probably one time in the millennium court arts centre and poor design and northern Ireland it's the afternoon of Saturday the sixteenth of February the moment man in court has an expression on by Sinead o'donnell Coles crossing permissions she needed as a performance artist Richie from the Republic of Ireland unseasoned base in Northern Ireland for quite awhile now she's going to do a performance on talk from twelve until one so few of us are here font just having a quick look around in its exhibition there's quite a lot going on here in general terms its performance tions and a lot of the work around the gallery is documentation one way or another of the actions might be photographs videos but also the detritus from live performances the materials on the floor and also closing that Janet had been wearing during performances or materials she was working with her not hanging in the gallery almost like documents themselves as well as materials to the palladium crossing permissions I just read the gallery tax here crossing permission since a year long project where artists Sinead o'donnell travel today if trump works with women in Tokyo Montevideo final Saturday some Paolo Fulci shima Bangkok solo and ported dying each residency forms and exchange ideas and experiences between Sinead on the women the Senate then making a performance and exhibition reflecting on the issues section basin features elements from each resident same place photographic sculptural performance art and video works a comment from Sinead crossing permissions as the title that I used to describe a process that was like an unraveling of south arch and others three or driven by feminist feeling sorry my performance practice as a project crossing permissions for me was about mutual exchange living and working alongside women shared my stories and they shared there's this is a project commissioned by millennium court and supported by the arts council of Northern Ireland major award that flax art studios arts center ongoing Japan exchange residency British Council north and Ireland in Armagh city Banbridge Craigavon borough council %HESITATION you know I'm sure they %HESITATION this is my project transformation my journey started Montevideo Uruguay and %HESITATION I was researching and investigating seven seven seven seven landscapes hello I could create incentives to a lot of the work that I've made this plan requires little moments and remembers was not so it's very interesting to see farmers is the only witness and if you send your resume to liability the six pieces here each it was a big deal which is the C. between Uruguay and Argentina this is a civil rights so that is a lot of my work C. like doctors because they quite falsely subsets I was surprised at the times of the day when the light changes also read different countries there is always a set so it's like a light just close all the way interested in the light in the light it had the body can take different formations according to the latest this is because of the emotion the reason I called evil genius is that she is the goddess in this specific beach and Rovers in the engineering see part of their religion is to worship this god S. so they were shipping twice a year the end of season so that's the significance of the location as I said I don't rehearse my work I trust intuition of spontaneity although I do have an idea and I do have to settle where I'm going to go I'm never particularly quite sure until they begin what the action is going to be so I use rice paper and I work with the rice paper in the city %HESITATION the rice paper it away anyway I moved it I'm drawing the rice paper but it's not the traditional drawing with pencils it is drawing through action so these are the paperwork this is a big business so it's quite fascinated by detainees inside the city I wish and they didn't want to put a little bit so that I wasn't expecting that so became really fascinated with traces of what is drawing drawing is an action whatever stands in graphite pencil I'm using the location of the accident also the rice can become extremely happy when it's inside water so it wasn't easy to try to save it or put it behind me wouldn't this be if I had a lot of feelings about migration and immigration and the sea crossings and that kind of desperation particularly for somebody who is trying to escape or so it also means that dissipate and what it's going to be like to be refugee so why not make it to work a lot of calls come through also in terms of this stress the stress for me represents immigration and this was a dress I wore myself in my everyday life but I knew that I was going to use it in a performance so distressed traveled with me for a year it gradually became more for state so here yeah the jurors on the top the more I was making the work before I was using the dress you can change it if you like this article addressing became an art object kind of has a personality of its own in the field quite a distance from it now I think if I hadn't have exhibited it I would still be using anymore and there has to come a time or the right okay I'm finishing this piece that also is very common in my work is I have a whole wardrobe of clothes that are staying away before missus and I keep it in my head this is what you do when you see me in jeans and T. shirt because I don't have any health data and use that because I have to have an attachment to the government I find it really hard to just go out and buy clothes for a performance I have to have some sort of attachment to it or has to have some sort of memory is a memory for the original memory so this is %HESITATION my partner's permanent residence card process which was very daunting and this is the dress I bought for the party to send anything via an aggression on migration of women %HESITATION mythology moving from this piece about I also worked again with rice paper because I was so impressed with his struggle it was to this kind of more brown this is from the center it's from a city called competence the company is the LGBT captive subtotal so it's not heteronormative society which is really interesting for me to live in with this piece we went to an existing sorry and in the face of the Korean you can see the %HESITATION it's kind of like a swamp it's more of a swamp that is who I brought some hope switchable above us and they were white the number of the rice paper I live in a city where did this work for a whole day until I could figure out what the action was it to like figure out what the deal was I'm so excited to read play to win because it is made of my father's birthday movie twins the way to video a shot I felt that make it a multi channel screen and it was better to try to bring up the details also because the color is so strong so I didn't want to edit it together as one piece because I just felt it didn't work it works better as a cash to quite difficult to select your own work when you've made a lot of work you've got to look at photographs so I just was photographing so the call center division this is the right age and it still has a very strong rescue it's really raining reddish brown so this is this is ridiculous into the water into the lord a lot of artists in this area they connect this red clay and the making of prince and compared to what we see you it is possible to mix I'm making a difference several so I'm not sure whether that is slated from what I did this is where the performance happens on the first of February the performance was fake twenty minutes long and decided to just leave a trace of the performance in the middle of the space so that's something that happens sometimes appears or disappears for me when I'm sixty four interview it's a month of your birth but if it does geographically dental services so for me it's a lot but it is some sort of representation of the world three flour rice two major foods products that we import export all over the world these pieces we I tried to focus on as hello we see a lot of work with my hair on my face recovering in a full coverage option is part of Greece's options charcoal the second is that right from what is already in progress please zero three thanks bye they still have a credit rating differences yes you can hear in the media those site also find balance between how to describe it to the your performances hospital completely different geographical place had a return for the and how do we give that second view what I would lose the essence of the integrity of the actual performance this piece here was about some of the homeowner these two pieces here are about body armor so again my obsession with like with this piece here it's called writing docs photograph on the wall thanks for this material and then I turn the lights on and expose it to the audience this was in a rain storm so my feet are actually meant to be seen as a worker and I gave the audience testifies for their feet so they're kind of standing around in front of me then again because I was on this journey of this quite long project I was able to look back to the garlic tried it again %HESITATION let's see how that will work so then I decided to make video because this is not so impressive to an audience of violence this is Laurie cassman so also you're thinking of contacts so this piece here is to cover up miss Peters to audience but because I had time and I had studio time I was able to go back to the studio I was innocent lives today without allies what I'd done I think what I like about I enjoyed do not it works better than the plot line so I had the opportunity to take the right because usually you have like five minutes ago the particles are heading up the tension that's it so this project I was able to kind of open up all of those aspects that usually people don't see again slowly sinking into the ground some thought and I see it until you get foster on stop worrying so much yeah this is five PM so the time and like this is five PM this is eight PM please use our night Saturday and verify %HESITATION so for me the lady told me already Asia Indonesian palm or is it for me if I say %HESITATION when you wake up and watch the light from little different sounds that you hear in a city where the landscape I decided to screen the stream videos here the first one is S. complex because it's about foods so I was thinking about it so this is the S. purpose built stage in the middle of a small bit into these vehicles %HESITATION but I work for five minutes it is very important is the pharmacist I possibly had a hole in my hair that somebody was pulling meal there was a lot of restrictions around the body new to the local today both sides he said there is a lot of restrictions email but so I had to work with the a different performance yeah in this case here so I this is about a another rooftop so I gave them all so it was very difficult for them because of the but I have to rely on the latest like forms things at all or is it so this piece was a all of the contemporary art gallery symptoms so it is it is the center of the video they had a exactly so some of this this evening and I just wanted to begin hi this is fire one of the side with the stock some people were very much on top of me some people are a little bit right so we were playing with the light because I didn't want to work in the gallery space is too small %HESITATION I didn't want to work in the garden because it was T. social life and the roof space I like I like the idea of reliance I know that my work is challenging for audiences but at the same time I have to find ways to engage with the audience of the phone calls to go this by using the torch is it was a way of also kind of almost give somebody something to hang on given the responsibility given them daca authorship over the lights so the request I think hello I was really happy because I was a bit worried like well of nobody comes up the stairs to the roof of his visit here in the dark zero to worry it and you're likely to start to see people come with torches I've started to come down but also dark this is very quiet she did come to see in the chart or is there someone you can leverage on the couch when you're doing performances %HESITATION this piece that works with a press photographer I've basically worked to the women's network in every country or else set it off every aspect of the work is made with women I was actually thinking about that today %HESITATION this female photographer female photographer and I do have yeah so it does it does a lot of meetings because when you ask somebody to take photographs and photograph here working and they think about rising photograph my work that way you don't make that meeting the candidate of set off so many many many many discussions with photographers disclaimers caliphate it also say well you know if you want to do something you can have my body I don't mind you know trading also when you don't speak the language and you're trying to negotiate in Spanish and Portuguese and Japanese yen because really confusing so you just have a baby simple sentences can you take this photo at this time what kind of coverage you have and you have to do really quickly because it had like two to four weeks in each place it was a very long way I made a lot of connections and a lot of new friendships with other artists working taking three to two usually this is just this is the this is C. ng or maybe Japanese his research in Stephanie's yeah the image they seem to be so it is %HESITATION it is aged male body I'm not interested in that we H. and this journalist the cemex accelerate the teacher Japanese guys where all the Japanese women in English this is an existing the risers and we're just basically were in the house okay and eating and sharing chatting and talking about pressure cooker and how many times it has to be had to be fixed over the last fifty years this lady you know she she's been married for fifty five years your cooker for fifty five years so it's you know really nice conversations and set up the same characters %HESITATION the kind of local people would be revealed to be duty get mom to my ex Valerie June eight year in their kitchen table you know right Thursday this is %HESITATION our managers use at least three hours on the tall the buyers have their life is it really in our time %HESITATION decided to edit the videos of the neighbor that because there is a lot of issues around privacy disclosure cable because you can't plan most of the conversation %HESITATION so rather than sensory files that the guys are happens I have we laughed more then we felt sides and this is when usually I have to be in the Senate have drinks and food and shopping it's not Japanese style at all he so %HESITATION women really enjoy themselves they just got a little bit self conscious close enough because this is my way of working without turning it into a positive attitude just when they have exhibited pieces of pop what is you know it is a curious Hey okay this do and like this in the system I know in this case but now I have something I'm good at and I think also there are different ways of communicating to fit so if you have an activity which is already there you know so or share in our lives and I mean most of the time and %HESITATION their last anyway but I just like I can ET so I was just kidding and then we're all getting giddy you know you can get T. they're already getting in the build up to this meeting at six o'clock and mags hello %HESITATION this is the presidency has for the uncle residency in there everyone and everyone's so curious like what you do just have a women's meeting she did interested in that even the very simple things are controversial in a way and also Tokyo is so big so he would have to see some more so it's hard to put things together and it's hard to get people repeated to me huge we will I mean I didn't know where to host was because you get to the streets it will be any numbers so you don't know where it is but even Japanese double I work in the night this is a long time to get a taste of this is like twenty minutes and we had this sorted and we had the baby you know this was trying to translate what I would like to see it would be difficult comma but it actually turned out that these ladies all the food for my own so all the food groups the nice yeah it was one of the things when I was there for six hours because this is nothing lost in translation or I'm thinking why am I here so long and where and then it's like I okay I get it so there's little bits that are missing and you're you're trying to come out of the way it would be really okay here I guess we will why the raiders this question is so if they said they haven't sent me to this day last year this year's I sign up bonus caller shop well I had I had a friend trying to sleep China or you for me what is your address I used to read injured seven most of law I think six right and then you can buy the separatist thank god on their website they said that it's okay wanted to wear glasses four weeks disguises and I was really shocked because I semi to us that this is quite an office tracks to be seen in a women's March can be dangerous targeted so that was a very big thing it's a digest I'm trying to do to make see that lawyer discover the suppression so I went back to Japan this was in March %HESITATION talk to journalists and ten I know that she conditionally which is an area that was destroyed because I when I went to Iraq and I have a case to go five miles from the actually I just spoke tracks she has sex workers in yeah %HESITATION that desperation to somebody about it has been ages you know you look at your shop window and everything is still there additional people because it's too dangerous for them to go back to their homes so I set a public bench animated piece called the flower and it's just six minutes longer maybe like to view they should related to this time and he doesn't L. as in Lima you know Hey %HESITATION okay and this is in they it's just that ten years discourages right I just showed yeah as ation use it to see some of the things right %HESITATION really easy to concentrate yeah a new age just %HESITATION teachers huge thanks to she need for allowing me to increase her and lightning talk on the podcast you can find more information on shin its website which is Sinead o'donnell dot com thanks also to each one of H. and Sinead breath at Cashel for the most accent road trip between Belfast imported Titan you've been listening to audio visual cultures would be polar bear and Sinead o'donnell if you find a podcast useful and just saying and enjoyable please support its continuation and improvement but the small monthly membership on peach tree on telecom forward slash AP cultures or at least one off donations to pay pal dot me forward slash B. 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transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 42 – Cinema and Technology with Dr Rebecca Harrison automated transcript


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hello I'm Paula planner and this is audio visual cultures the podcast that explores and examines aspects assigned an image based cultural production on their wider implications I'm thrilled to be joined this time by Dr Rebecca Harrison to talk about her research on technology and sentiment three topics such as coding and the Star Wars franchise and sentiments relationship with real waste thanks to a Petri on members and everybody has been engaging on social media it's a really big help and you're very much appreciate it I'll be back after my chat with her back after his ways you can be part of the conversation and support the continuation of a podcast do you enjoy the discussion very face to be joined by doctor back at Harrison he's doing to say from the university of Glasgow and its lecture and exit theatre film and television film and television studies back it is and you counsel to give a talk by some of your Star Wars research unlike many academic she got many strings to your bow but I think because of your talk maybe we could start with your Star Wars research broadly speaking the stock was project is about hello I'm calling computational cinema so it's about the relationship between the digital and film but rather than thinking about that in a series that takes away I'm thinking more about the relationship between software and the production of software and when it is implemented in the film industry to produce film that is digital and its oncology or digitally set collected in the street however I am doing is thinking about the gendered and raced to production of southwest and the ways that gentamicin forms algorithms coaching programming and what that means for the film industry and what impact it has on the way that we see cinema and how it's presented to this style was makes a really good case study in this project because of its longevity and just how big the franchises and the fact that it's not that you know just at a point in nineteen seventy seven when you get the first wife and graphics appeared in film so it's really the moment of changing all the way up to now and it goes through the cycles of the analog referencing the digital to almost completely digital and then now %HESITATION switching back to this as a kind of tension between the outlook in the ditch to the homes with puppetry making a comeback some of the films are shot on thirty five millimeters I think it is a mix of film and materials science and the digital coming together so it's a very interesting case study for thinking about a lot of these questions and looks at because it sells for thinking about the authorship of them and he gets to make decisions about labor practices and production practices and gender race is seven a lot of comparisons between the original trilogy and then I suppose is the original film which became a trilogy and then the prequels how you did without and then what we're seeing now I assertion status can you preach that's happening with federal Bustin JJ Abrams either parent I leave stands between the technologies and gender politics yeah I mean that's something I'm so pretty just trying to start thinking about and there's no consistency across the sky was franchise at any given time because there's so many power sex and that protects and doing different things but that's definitely patents within the console's moments of the seventies and eighties original trilogy essay using technology in a particular way and the consent of gender race of being soaked about represented in particular like very very different to happen to pretty cool scene in the late nineties and early two thousands of millennial moment which is actually follow us yes that's what I was thinking yeah S. gender race politics in the prequels that just so much worse which says that she quite a lot I think about the culture at the time yes and and that kind of place feminist movement certainly now it's really interesting because I mean it's still a huge kind of major corporation it's Disney company get away from that in terms of politics but they are taking steps to address some of those problems which is why so much of that is the kind of try to find a polite way to talk about the stuff that happens online and the backlash against against having women actually speaking in the cost during the break thing being restrained it does seem like across all of this does Texas the moment even a straight white men are dominating the action still there is something more critical about that happening and I think that that's in part because the Lucasfilm story group which is the in a separate people who control what comes stock was common artists across the franchise they are themselves a from a diverse group of people not another country nights as a recording device solo a Star Wars story and just to try and draw all of those ideas into one thing just one example I'm really terrible with remembering the names of the robots and stuff but you know they're set in the robot and not fully study Phoebe Waller bridge L. three L. three because I was wondering what you what you may have heard because I am worried that maybe there was because she kind of almost starts a feminist uprising that's also a Marxist uprising but I was wondering about the whites robot helps that she has an S. or something a bit racially stereotyping maybe black women that's a really interesting question when I heard about the film when it came out and I'm talking quite a lot about L. three okay my paper today yeah that's fine that card just like totally fascinating particularly because L. three is on my my my all of these questions about gender race %HESITATION coding and programming will come together the bodies in the character I find the racial question above three really difficult I kind of identify L. three as feminists because of the conversation like droid rights and the way that walk she sang about her exes marks on to heaven estimates and I thought the same when I when you see her walking is kind of coded in a racial what however Phoebe Waller bridge's is white and was doing motion capture for the film so she was dressed in a way that we can match and antiseptic yeah this kind of work server presumably unless there's been some kind of significant integration in post production that's mapping on to have movement and I can't tell if that's about our pre conceptions about all kind of racial biases yeah or if it's something that they have deliberately done in film I contel and it's difficult because you're sort of looking at a robot figure that doesn't actually exist and then think about like how to move and what would that look like if you turned it into that shape is quite difficult it's definitely true that is a robot there she looks far more feminized in her appearance than the male robots all masculine yes she's not kind of tiny robots fave moving around in the desert I got frustrated this summer because I thought the more recent films have done a lot of really good work towards moving towards the right direction and that one to me felt like it regressed a bit yeah and also that really kill characters children killed off pretty here today so she's one of them L. three is one of those bonds yeah after an officer and yeah was it finally a woman of color black women he has major speaking role in the style was foam and she said she said and I thought it was a total cop out of a total waste of her character I thought that science that she's really on to use both of them one of the things that struck me as a lying in that film I think it's when they're about to the Castle Rock and learn the millennium falcon and I think it might be palm says we need to break free this is putting us around in circles and I thought it was such a neat way of thinking about what the Disney era film to doing that yeah those that we've kind of moved beginning to move forward with the force awakens to an extent was rogue one the last date I had that kind of incredible female calls even though it was actually on screen as much as you need to remember but then and then we get to set up and then it feels like Disney would play into the kind of white mandali audiences have been critiquing all the other films this was a kind of I don't know if this is the philosophy the feminist joints dies the women of color dyes second medicated for the night yeah really annoying to me I was guided and say in the cinema that's kind of weird and just watch it at home it was frustrating because I didn't think of rule as a film it was really a bad film yeah it was quite enjoyable in lots of ways yeah moments I really liked but I think that's quite close the cool back actually to use the empire strikes back which I re watched recently and there's a moment and not which I never made the connection the full well Landau is the trying to skate cloud city and London was crouching behind one of the guns on the millennium falcon and I'll teach you is moving towards them and like trying to get on the ship amid this he's kind of gone fight this government imperial stormtroopers and shooting at them and it gave it is completely different emotional resonance the case now if using satellites that exact moment happens with L. three running towards many mountain land across behind the guns and then she dies I mean I'm so kind of emotionally becomes meaning of your search to now watch what was the only film which comes later criminology which is the joy of us invest this makes sense to anyone reading it you change that scene and I thought quite a meaningful impact in an interesting way so I think the phone was completely without merit and the way that it sits in the store was kind and it's quite interesting but it totally failed some of its impact thanks but it is just their relationship there was a hint of something towards for months with them I take it that they were making very light that she was convinced that Lando was obsessively in love with her but she was donated its foundry ticket that he really was in love with her I thought that was part of the stereotype of the strong feminists person and she's convinced this mom loves her but actually he's tolerating her I thought maybe it was poking fun that that kind of stereotype yeah I think either way there was quite a bit of sweetness and their relationship hi Bob bunker that was very different from male male boxer yeah one of the still those novels which I'm not my kind of guy to better much as I love the phones they're actually really fascinating is the way that they look develop some of the themes and stories from the phones one of the novels lost shop which is sold as a Han and Lando story and assistance to be about two male characters but it actually really is so much about L. three and it's so it's sad I think it sets something like four years off the return of the Jedi and it takes place in multiple timelines so the case there are these flashbacks to the early period of time L. three features quite heavily hi relationship with Lando and that is quite useful actually and she's given the space to talk about droids ontology and the way that they live in and the fact that they have personalities and and the life and the nature of artificial intelligence and some of the ethics around joined in human interactions it's a really sweet relationship Mr instructive and he kind of really listens to her okay and place one is reflecting on this and is it a kind of sense of partnership between and he follows her lead as much as she follows his and I think this is actually sort of been thinking about this is I mean really just occurred to me in the last day it's a slightly under developed on the plates line of thought but that doesn't seem to be something interesting that style was is doing in its representation of relationships between I'm kind of cutting L. three is a white woman just because a few people that between white women and men of color seven the snorkel S. three various things L. three and under do they end up as a path between them kind of saving the galaxy from being taken over by the sea I found this really tired you know I would love to hear about setting to be reading in he's a great to say save me reading a styles and that was kind of interesting and I was in for that to that kind of not something what they do in rogue one where you have a Latino man in the form of Cassie and %HESITATION tool and the white woman Janice so yeah who was going to route the case from the narrative but I say it's Alex yes it really makes me wonder what they're going to do with rose in episode nine yeah because it seems like following that path it will be a partnership of rain fed which is finally coming full rampant technicality it makes me wonder what they gonna do with various characters and how they gonna create space for her as a woman of color to exist in that Martin and I thought Rosen fender nice partnership with Dave Brady rest off each other nicely and last night she was my favorite character and not have to say I mean obviously the fails for Carrie Fisher throws I just loved her character and I think she must have the most quoted line from that film don't fight what you hate save what you love yeah which you see everywhere slogans and people talking about the franchise and being quoted and cited within not the presence of a secret accounts goes into relationships and between the humans or humanoids on their robot characters that's probably maybe go into much into thinking about the idea of the site work but then it's not really the same effect I think in one of the novels there is such a character who barely features he's described as a site right but it doesn't really address WHYY there are some booksellers as far as I know there are many sites books unless you count Luke and Vader %HESITATION yes it is okay because they have to have a close Emmy favorites I guess actually plays but never describe that way but you don't see that I think because it's hidden under all of those you don't really realize yeah definitely feels quite late on in the franchise he's actually mostly by only I suppose it depends which way round G. V. the chronology of the ads in terms of the release of the film six point light but in terms of the story out cases even I still get totally confused about which time nine AM to I suppose if we're talking about technology and storage we must mention the lightsaber for many reasons the file like object yeah very obvious expandable file like objects on the color schemes read seems to be the bad guys read and call her real world means different things do you think it's coming from the radicals and walks communism is feared us and in the United States because a lot of countries read start positive that's not really thought that much about the colors of the night I think they meant to install was mythology you come to come enjoy a pretty movie SS until you've made your own like safe I think the feeling is that Brady between either we will see it happen I don't think you really see it in the oven she was somewhere between eight and nine have created her lightsaber so it's part of that you know moving from that training typically again that's at I. PhD I guess it's the difference between like studying for a PhD doctor is making your life and I think that they choose that color so I had to do a home have a mug that simple for me that's one of those ones we put the whole turned in the allies favor magically appear and they're actually a surprising array of colors so I think the right ones do tend to be the dockside cactus but there are a couple of them thanks and clamoring the I. have spectrum and notify %HESITATION I've just enjoyed a couple bit to hear once I think being in close proximity with Andre it was going to happen sooner or later that I've walked stole phones I still really don't like the prequels and I go back to them not tried of trying to set up them so much and I just come home and I tried to watch the first one note the headlight kit C. GI animation films as one of the things that the army being vaguely interesting set up actually I think this is I feel like that part of the thinking and being that this kind of expendable falcon Jackson says book by an academic safety plan in which she talks about binary code and the generating of binary code three zeros and ones in which case we think that when and as representing zeros in network intensive thinking like kind of tea Fassel's waiting to be filled and then ones being the kind of masculine phallic objects when you look at the iconography of styles it's really interesting that everything that is round and circle and secular he's a kind of storage device cool contains information can hold something within it so when you look at the desk the last person to talk to you too to record a message that's what kind of a supplement BB eight who has the information contained is secular the death star and the couple was opening the gate and the force awakens is it Starkiller base I was gonna say I'm wrong because it sounds really bad that probably right I think that's what it's called and they contain things within that contains the details within them but everything that's a kind of straight line is something that's kind of phallic amassed a nice income three things and destroys things seem like safe as the digital %HESITATION tena transmitting information to round objects you can I see this kind of weird binary package which is gendered not quite sure I'm going but it's it's kind of you know it's definitely worth thinking about I suppose and thinking about your work more generally than on the relationship between technologies and different apparatuses on sentiment tell us a bit about your retention work on trains yeah it's quite nice to be asked about trying just talks to me about stuff the US to come and get this paper today I said would you like me to talk about railways maternity or to let us talk about styles and Cody Miller Cody stalls speaks with James that project was not dissimilar in its approach and it was thinking about the intersections of different forms of media technology to thinking about right away asmedia and the mediatek spirits of movement I was looking at the period between the period between nineteen ninety five and nineteen forty eight in person and really just exploring how to connect the machines actresses of cinema segmentation to other technologies around them and how they were informed by the other kind of machinery of the industrial revolution but also what it meant to say in a cinema OTEC project %HESITATION and how you might understand that based on having taken a train somewhere or having listened to a radio any of the other kinds of things are going on in that period I mean I suppose there's so much going to with the relationships between modes of transport and the modern periods %HESITATION the cinema it's a modern apartments maybe the modern art form I suppose the idea of amazement spades Kannada says I'm a chemical reactions that have to happen to move forwards together so a lot of analogies between yeah I think particularly with the roadway and cinema all of these media changing the relationship that people have to time and space which is I guess the key cultural shift that maternity brings about the mechanization makes happen the tiny feel if you're sitting on a train while you're sitting in a cinema you being taken to a different space but you're not actually moving Hanson this is kind of weird relationship between simultaneously being static and yet mobile and you're watching a landscape vicariously switch being mediated by windows machines moving or screen and sheen that is moving so there's always a way which is removed from the experience that you have even though you are being tabulated into that kind of world of space will thing that's happening in front of you this is in harmony cinematic in a way being on a train if you're on a windows eight for example you're watching the world go by quite high speed too many hundred miles an hour and this landscapes whizzing past you you can see out to the coast even with miles away does it really strange and fascinating phenomenon on trains mostly between the nineteen twenties and probably around nineteen forty eight what does this this kind of evidence of the same happening all the way up into the nineteen eighties whether they would put a cinema carriage on a train I mean it's been different iterations of this and you get that kind of Hale's tools which of the novelty cinema spaces that look like rolling carriages in around nineteen oh eight but these are actual cinema built into a carriage attached to train they only run on the London north eastern railway but at least that's the only one with a half feet paying customers who were passengers on the train and it's a regular service but what we really really fascinates me about it was it on a lot of these they were Chinese rules basically I think they tried out showing silent films initially was no musical company it's just the sounds of warfare why would she do that so eventually they sound fans you would what Jesus which seems far more logical yeah this is the beginning of Mobil oil having use only guys getting information lan using fiber now sitting with the tablets and laptops and mobiles and watching news and following social media trends passes much any precedent but yes sometimes policies newsreels they which shows tourist films about places on the route the airline said you would sometimes be watching footage shot from a moving train that was spending projected inside a blocked out rowing carriage as you're moving through that same C. was seeing something that was already mediated by the railway mediated through a camera and then check back on the train when you can just watch it in the first place which seems like a very convoluted way of engaging with the environment back then we didn't make people more likely to think I would like to visit there and actually get off the train you know what another journey now because he knows us with %HESITATION history there's always this question god why did no one right this I think unfortunately that conversations just gone was never was never recorded yet something the endlessly fascinating to me about the idea of watching a train journey on the film on the change and when you can just watch it as it happens there's an Irish article private charity he said that %HESITATION understand something we need to first media that's maybe it's not convincing maybe notice it more because it's on the screen here fixing it it's late and I guess that is actually asking for your attention if you were just sitting in a carriage would you be looking out window it should be reading the paper or novel having conversation eating lunch you know there's I guess is this a way of making you look I didn't know how to create screens banner carrots yeah I think it since nineteen twenty four the festival in inverted commas experiment has already started up in the US because we see they have a much much longer trains yet in the end makes sense is already happening that %HESITATION seem restaurants so you have the phenomenon of having my boss in the house but I just want to be I think they tended to be cinemas in trying hard to move around the country but will be static at the point of the screening process onto a blockchain Wallem unity yeah because it's become very normal on long haul flights and on ferry journeys for example if government loan board sentiment words and backed in the back of the scene from TF plan for example that idea if what you're waiting on the grind very fast that's very different yeah actually the train predates the UAC has that she's probably %HESITATION he's the trend does predate the plane in terms of showing films any parties so I think it's nineteen twenty six you get the first really yeah and the first kind of according to I mean I'm always a bit low is to say sorry because there's always one that came before that no one knows about yeah the first one we have documentation at the moment it was not one of the big world as in the US gosh you wouldn't think so doxing is a huge phenomenon in the twenties and thirties of how can we put screens into meeting spaces both ships trains planes yeah one of the I think it's a way of trying to perhaps pacifying people I think actually at the time it was more about making a big statement and that way of proving innovation on the Tennessee particularly as around the twenties and thirties when they use different forms of transport we start to be competitive in that case they become for example the flight system expensive and reason being you in the public imagination but it becomes possible to go to a commercial airline and take a flight and that's precisely what ships are working today and the trains are losing out on that business team shipping companies who are now taking people approach less money but they won the domestic holidays to still set everyone's beginning to be more competitive and it's a way of saying look elsewhere shiny new companies on technology yes the hidden world of screens on transport and then do you ever ever thought to go the other way in the country and then some are getting mad at like tree and then the film on the trans like do go that way actually the projects and think about what train transport looks like on the screen okay so in documentary form and users but also in action films which is a lot of fun because often those of detective stories will have to train wrecks in them especially from late in the fence cities in forty to get rid of that cannot see some trains which apart from yeah I guess I found it a kind of more specific to the exact moment of its release I didn't miss anything generics have often but you know I said it it she questions with the ways in which they represent women broadly speaking all of those phones have women characters who are doing some kind of work on the railway even as a kind of in and out to capacity so you get lots of %HESITATION lots of women detectives who finds themselves on trains and the train journey becomes this transformative experience with actually usually start out with quite a ton of miss confident single women and by the end of it Hey fiends handed into these kind of %HESITATION good material for what seven sentence does that the record does that the lady vanishes does that iris starts out at the beginning Barry sat on her particular Jenny and then over the course of that train ride she becomes very submissive wife you figure you'll see as well you get the investors that you get a professional criminal women so in Hitchcock's there was a conference number seventy six and when I was thinking of %HESITATION Kate plus ten which is in the thirties whether women is that correct criminal and then again this is transformative change any that takes place and she ends up marriage to the detective who is usually having gone through some kind of you know I think number seventeen cheese in the train wreck and she's about to drown and he said to himself baptism and she manages cleansed from the experience of need to be a good toy such there is something quite interesting about the train on screen and women passengers yes there's been a very subtle going through a tunnel some point to high space that's the north by northwest and the other focus includes the thirty nine steps marketing Carolus now someone to rent space and %HESITATION that's que sera sera the machine because that's really fascinating stuff do you want to talk about aids the really cool thing to do with teaching I know you've been trying really hard to provision of women filmmakers and the labor of women in film so if you were a friend to hear mark I thought yeah it's been a kind of an ongoing project over the last two years to send to feminism and postcolonial thought discourse in undergraduate teaching on a cool course rather than an optional modules I mean Archie this is because it's based on my own my own experiences the experiences of other women people of color around me based in the workplace in film criticism in the film industry more broadly and in the academy and just thinking about everyone comes anything something needs to change these are the issues that I'm still facing not necessarily from students but just from the other people that they work from the industry itself although I say that as if the industry itself isn't people one of the ways that we somehow manage to devolve responsibility away from them yes there is just so I think you know what has to change in order for things to get back to me and to my mind at least maybe the kind of optimism though I went into teaching with was that the classrooms a space where we can do a lot of this work and I remember when I started doing this I look back at my own undergraduate course yeah when I was learning and I was you know trust your undergraduate two thousand five and I still got love mine for cemex because I'm terrible academic bits of paper when I looked today and I was really struck by the fact that when a twenty week course there were only three films directed by women that's a lot compared to what cool experimental film in a way where we want to films yeah America remember exactly what the total figure fill in the forms of the you know the way maybe to feature films by men of color and though the streets from into shorts and everything else is by what Montana citizens two thousand and five that's not the only guy in the room and I said simple happen in like fifteen years time to listen to %HESITATION but it is only two thousand five they did things differently and I'm not having that like PPL it was amazing and she felt so %HESITATION I mean I love to live my lectures don't get me wrong but I just felt so let down by that yeah I know exactly how you feel and I think your story is gonna be echoed by a lot of this yeah Armani's and I actually think sadly it's gonna be a card for students who are in classrooms right online yeah so unless we start doing something to change it keep talking about things this is my kind of metric and like stop talking about doing things differently and be the difference I think I just want to get students take elective modules and feminism or gender in film but then how many students going through the whole time investing without ever having to engage with any existing case yeah because they don't want to do with that and she can do the whole being subtle and dropping and they're very nice again but it's it's not appropriate you know these are massive questions yeah and the world right now I don't really wasn't the idea as well that we have to do this in a way that is soft I mean I've been told to maybe try doing this animal suffering because they want to take people so much by I really resent the idea is that talking about quality is something that we have to hide because if you're having to hide it to make people get people on board with it and then not really engaging with it they're actually just maybe going along with it because I don't know what's that I mean I could teach this is not something that's just me and this is you know I am a conversation with other people that's fine I mean something not just done by myself in isolation so I could teach him we this service was on the course but the way it's being we've designed it is to have everything on the course pretty much everything the locals directed by women so it's a film in TV history modules that can cover anything and everything really I mean how you make selections to teach ten week course that covers all of film and TV history you're already living outside much of course Sir I mean you always have to find an organizational logic that's what's necessary again anything's out well I've tried to do is to find ways to accommodate the kind of major moments in film and TV that people are usually safe you say oh I'm teaching teaching women in cinema it's almost like the existing genre outside of the rest of history what does that even mean hi def because it's going to mean different things to different people yeah I don't swim inspectors the Douglas Sirk melodramas for example so that's not what you mean by cinnamon made by women and then films say directed or written by women they're not necessarily feminists yeah the last thing that I've really enjoyed discussing with students on the course is the moments where you watch something that was directed by women and that sometimes it kind of shocked that it's not feminist you'll resolve the issue we watched where are my children she knows what the film from let's say nineteen fifty I mean it's actually one of the few films I've ever given a content warning about an advance the screening because it's pro conversation to film but only for someone and it's bounty abortion in making arguments about using contraception and it's mostly private contraceptive so that poll working class women in poverty well no multiply and produced hundreds of children to create more problems for society if you're a wealthy white middle class women then you should not use contraceptives or abortion restraint yeah how dare you sitting there with your feet up you should not buy children for your husband I mean it's at the same time it's quite critical of the ways that men make decisions about women's bodies and it was at the time considered fairly radical women led film ways what would have been more at the time considered feminist so it's really interesting to get students to think about how that has changed and so the fact that there are lots of fluids in a lot of feminist history that require more thinking particularly on the pile of middle class white women I think it's like this kind of endlessly fascinating topic to think about with the ways that women engage in the film industry while preconceptions of my kind of approach that has been to teach what tend to be the big moments in film and TV history the Eiffel in previous iterations of these kinds of seventy courses service only from that as classical Hollywood's British wartime cinema there might be some fetching way and you can do that entirely teaching from starts Harriman county town you can assist the hex you can teach resist technological murder you can teach all of it with them started by women and they don't have to exist in a little like this in the course of that only ten students to taking because he put women in the talking I think it's already kind of positive it's really really useful as well in terms of getting people to think about what do we mean by the film canon he creates it what is our ideological approach in the classroom as teaches on why we're not talking about that with students and why we are helping students to think about what that policy so what that ideologies because we're constantly teaching them audiology means and it belonging to other people but is an important that they learn to reflect on their own when king and ethics package thank you so much yeah it's been great to have a lovely conversation about phone in our you've been listening to the audio visual culture shift me Paula Blair and Rebecca Harrison this episode was recorded and edited by Paul the player and the music is common grind by an error tone licensed under creative Commons attribution three point zero and I noted from CC mix stir dot org if you like the show please support its production with donations to pay pal dot me forward slash P. E. A. B. L. A. I. R. or become a member on Petri on dot com forward slash a C. cultures from as little as one dollar a month on the paper you can tear patrons receive access to exclusive previews extended show notes and video transcripts episodes are released every other Wednesday please to read share and subscribe on your chosen platform as this helps others find the show for more information and to see what any money received goes to words or how else you can be involved visit audio visual culture style wordpress dot com to be part of the conversation follow AP cultures on Facebook and Twitter for updates and thanks to items relevant to the discussions thanks very much for listening catch you next time
transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 36 – Hard Craft with Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming automated transcript


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Hello this is Audiovisual Cultures, the podcast that explores sound and image-based cultural production. I'm the creator and host Paula Blair. This time I'm delighted to be joined by artists Sarah-Joy Ford and Juliet Fleming to talk about their collaborative exhibition entitled Hard Craft at Vane gallery in Newcastle upon Tyne and that happened from the fifteenth of November to the fifteenth of December 2018. Thanks to Sarah-Joy and Juliet for giving so much of their time to talk through their work in detail and many thanks to everyone at Vane for accommodating us in the gallery and giving us some tea while we chatted. You can get more information about Vane and its exhibitions at vane.org.uk. Do you enjoy the discussion.

<SJF> Hi I'm Sarah-Joy Ford and I'm an artist and curator and a researcher. I work in textiles, mostly quilt-making and dealing with feminist and lesbian histories and how quilt-making can be a vehicle for exploring those.

<JF> hi I'm Juliet Fleming I am an artist and curator and director of gold tops from this gallery space around the corner from thing and my work deals with female experience the twenty first century using symbols like Peter S. as embodiment of what they get here activation and Fabian and you cast upon Tyne this call hard craft would either V. like two expenses a collaborative exhibition you me it's in designs quite a few of the works together is not right we started working together about two years ago and we've been working on and off making different things and then this year is the year of one hundred years of pop the fridge in the U. K. and it seems like the sort of option moments to look up the research different elements of the suffrage movement and responds to it without books and here is what how crap you've got a mixture of textiles and ceramics and there's a bit of copper work maybe we could think is followed by the idea of materials associated with women and labor associated with women and the idea of reclaiming those as materials and objects of protests and activism yes I mean %HESITATION working textiles and my work is always kind of based on the history of women in textiles this association between textiles and embroidery and femininity and how that was a kind of shift in the kind of sixties and seventies to feminist artist be claiming these kind of domestic craft is something that instead of being seen as a private thing in the family home that was kind of placid and didn't hold any meaning they we re claiming those methods as vehicles for political expression and in the way that textiles is an awful being completely pushed aside and marginalized and masculinity discourses that pile say women pushed aside from history from politics so it made so much sense Hey put this modernized integrated media and to be the voice of women who also felt pushed aside and not legacy has always influenced my practice and you know at the time when people like Judy Chicago when faith Mingo when they were away can it was a massive thing to bring ten thousand to a gallery space is really destructive an unusual and that's not so much the case now let go on album is on the table at the moment you can see it coming into the small canonical narrative of the final but he still got the history life you bring of textile workings the gonorrhea brings with it the history of oppression and marginalization in protest it's still holds out we just need to figure out a way to work with it that knowledge isn't brings this history in both a lot reflects the shift in politics now thank goodness well less tax totals you can see the labor that goes into it you can see the stitching so the actual work actual crafts person ship is actually visible in the finished product often as well yeah but I think you know it's interesting to you people often invest a lot in what they think is hundred labor or specific kind of domestic labor actually if you take the works here there's no hunt stage apart from along the bottom of the bonuses hunt blanket stitch in the tussles a handmade Benton's attacks because I use a lot of industrial equipment I use digital southwest city my embroideries and we'll send off footage to prince if things are not really part of what my what does it situates itself not hung crossed narrative but actually is it was a very forward thinking I'm using industrial equipment so it's six again in between two different spaces but it's interesting whatever you do you ever quit minis like I use huge scale massive equipment and it still holds six quantitation of hunting butchering envoy to behave in high and it's quite a colourful exhibition there's very clear relations and a lot of it's embedded in research on the suffrage movements hundred years ago and so there's very clearly a serve the purple white and green from that of the S. P. N. things but there's a lot of tanks and lighter purple sent those kinds of softer colors as well maybe pastels may be Juliet would you like to say something about the color when we first started working to get the I just skill chef that new bridge projects hosted as part of that practice makes practice program we talked about the colors that we wanted to work with clothes that we enjoyed working with the time and lots of those came out in all the support that we made together entirely collectively when we were thinking about this project we wanted to reference that those colors that we use dead within the works in the works different expansion changed the often I've used of oranges and pinks and Reds in my practice rest their joys use of pastels and light colors soft pinks in her eyes and I think we just sort of drawing on those items for this collaborative exhibition as well as having those notes to the suffrage movement territories been talking quite a bit about our tax I work kitschy flashlight a bit more for us the way so you work with ceramics and firing and that sort of thing as well yeah similarly a marginalized medium of ceramics as textiles and different artists who are collaborating using both ceramics and textiles within that practice and that's becoming sort of a more used work or way of working the Carolina Chandra's a big influence of mine have tufting and hoped use of that and then the associations %HESITATION so supplements run next to the US to see them a ceramics I think there's a really great interesting but personally the way I work the two larger parts of been like hand built in the hand built elements of them together using some scratching and there's been lots of layers and lots of layering of colors %HESITATION as well as different places and it sort of adds to a similar way which I work where I am there in different ways of working as well as different media and then with the couple Lexi referencing the ones the glazing is different as of the first ones %HESITATION pastel soft colours because they were slips and it was a thin wire firings which achieves a circular appearance where is the stone with firings a stronger higher holiday which can produce more interesting glaze situations and chemical reactions thinking as well abate the idea of domestic space and domestic materials there's quite a few banners or pendants and the exhibition as well and those would be to take going to be March twelfth proposal here one of P. eve made things to go away with on marches which I talk about it but that is well said maybe the quoting process and applying it to protest banners yeah I guess I've been busy this year yes wants me to do stuff which is nice I hope people still meets do things after they see it at all of my works do you teach your phone kind of like a bonnet making history and the closing history Indian and my %HESITATION J. season not one thing or another not quite something but have made more kind of like straight bonus this year and it's been really interesting like collaborating with different community groups and things to make them which is a little bit different to me and it's nice that it prompted it it's always been an influence but not necessarily something that I had actually like taking them out on Monticello I was commissioned for their perceptions project and I worked with the LGBT foundation in Manchester and Republika internationally women's football team so that was kind of like trying to find a way that people could interact with it and have a safe because a bomb is usually quite like a singular message and it's not struggles was trying to find a single message that represented in this case not just one group of people two groups of people and not it's because when you commissioned as an officer if you're expected to bring your practice with you at night trying to negotiate doc boundary between both the ship and community practices really hard I'm did it kind of during workshops and made patches like same patches are just part of the same visual language of protest in bringing you know shifting test cells into public space patches long meaningful way of doing not protests replaced so we kind of made pot she said that each individual person and I have the right and say I made the digital files and stitch them or not said that they had one on the bonnet and want to keep it at home felt like you know that they had if they wanted to represent it's not a different angle on it they could but these bonus I think it took a long time talking about making them and how do these tons and I had like %HESITATION we knew we could put all these different things on them and like the ponds we originally did really busy day and then when we were making that and we just kind of put the cot images dot one kind of like didn't want to put anything else on them and not so I think it's interesting about the kids the plan is but they don't say anything that's what is interesting though as well all in protest Gooch's they meet together and it makes it exciting different because there is no message it leaves that space VA and %HESITATION say for me they represent a little bit of a space of potentiality you could just put yeah right tests on it let it day and taken out when I'm on the site that was a possibility and it leaves us face each person if you're not gonna fix maybe trying to think of my work well it's not like put their own message into and not sweat the sweat so a little bit different from kind of the community what I've done stations about maybe even making the text very very small and following the outline of the cat so even if you were to take them out much is he wouldn't be able to see what they meant to representative but it was only upon closer inspection that you see something get those took about maybe adding there's a different date or thinking about in twenty twenty eight twenty full suffrage was achieved a hundred years previous and whether you know it will that be the same amount of funding available for that date is it going to be as well advertised and will that be yes I'm not finding that for something that truly is representation of achieving suffrage rather than this selfish because it was nice that they did to me this is the reason for that I think notably Israel it because even though there's not far below language the images of the cuts are very low does it's fair to say because they've got these little flower garlands on them but you've got something else and there as well if you'd like to so does the flowers are taken from different %HESITATION uses Serra joy found with associations with the suffrage movement in different applications violets and other flowers and then some of the of the small did she printed pieces were the clitoris is that I'd made previously and they were things I've been again similarly without layering coming through they were photographs of ceramic works I taken a year or so ago if I was still using them within my practice in this one she's in different ways so we print them off and cut the margin place them in among flowers may have a similar they don't feel out of place that differently they have the infinity is one of the you know that's something that's always been talks about described in terms of female sexual pleasure and an association to plants and flowers and unique symbolism so it did feel like the right space for them and I definitely see the clitoris asses twenty first century version of female empowerment so it seems like the right time and space to be using that symbol but yeah they were originally ceramic works the identity graph and used the original piece of a similar size actually to the ones that ended up coming out this is been taken down with large pot side mate sometimes it feels like the month he made it work then you come me show is so you need to always be making something use a very high feeling of production and close to production in order to be an artist a value to us as to which I think is something that isn't very positive for lots of different reasons and some enemies to think about I think one thing I could buy the clitoris images as well as that it's not just the external part it's optional internal organs so what's the whole thing I'm not externalizing of something that's hidden away and sites you know and so few people instilled so little is known about the whole organ on there still so many assumptions about the small tiny you know it's a iceberg metaphor Tanzania nine tents under kind of saying I mean do you think there's even people who wouldn't even realize what the ship is constantly talking about something and doing something that I go what this issue pretty flowers is like a and is very few people who couldn't see the association between the shape and what is a loss of my practice previous to this was very much around that education of people in the sort of humorous fun way and I made with sex ed videos and things like that which were pretty vague P. G. the %HESITATION so very informative and talking about the legs the long time you get to decide in the two bulbs which city the site of the actual opening and it's still so few people seem to really understand to know much about the house and about how often previously they thought that maybe a vaginal orgasm was totally separate it's for publishers okay when in reality that is the pictures that assuming the season was this to create that reaction and still be productive Johnston I think there is a big association between a personal understanding and a feeling of liberation and I think that's still some way to go with us if we don't mean to be towards by whoever parents teachers schools universities it's not going to be continually talk about positive relationships and sexual education you know it's never going to really become resolved I think surgery the cops iconography or symbolism there I think there's quite a lot to read into that but I think probably most recently the idea of reclaiming the idea of the Pepsi and recent times because of comments that president trump has made in recent years so there's quite a lot of kat imagery here would you like to expand on that yes Sir I mean there's always been a kind of long standing it's a station with women and Cox like kind of sorry this is what it is and I can go to aspen that ends a longstanding thing but is also being as well as a familiarity is being used as an insult to the qualities that Cox hub is not affectionate enough cool you know cold days to be nieces insoles for women say %HESITATION I came across these postcards which even the reset treatment of cats and I initially thought they would probably suffer it say like pages of kittens saying I want my face as I that's cute the four day night feminist cafes Heston like hundred years ago that's crazy and then you realize that they were actually on T. suffrage propaganda and I just thought that like miss reading was really interesting because in the context of the women's month ches and how that symbolism in the woods as well as the infantry that comes with it with pussy I just think it is a really interesting power law like the way that we read these things differently another interesting thing about the anti suffrage pace because it cost too often used as a domestic symbol and there were tights women and not way so in a lot of the propaganda it was depictions of men struggling to run the home without women in the women abandoning them and they're always father struggling with children it is usually like at Mount Everest caught in the background or caught somewhere in the image as well which is kind of interesting I've been kind of working with kat imagery in my own practice as well because I'm kind of interested in like interspecies relationships and feminist vegetarianism and ones that I kind of quit interspecies relationships so I made some what about a woman %HESITATION Edith all right he was the very very little known first with a lesbian magazine in the state which she types on how tight my it while she was at her job because she had nothing else to Dave in fifties and it was called vice versa and she just distribute today she wanted awaits me other women and she made this incredible magazine which is like getting reviews of popular coach %HESITATION and I try to put like a lesbian spin on it and she also writes songs and might be appropriate coaches songs and put less been everything and she was this incredible woman and no one's got a clue who she is that was a project %HESITATION on by the lesbian herstory archives in New York where they were at the yeah they were documenting video documenting the lives of women and being involved in the lesbian politics movement in the state and they got this fantastic clean home video interview with her and when she's %HESITATION to and she just lives in the house full of cotton so many of them and I will rescue caught it's just so funny and joyous to watch because she's you know these people respect and how is this political form of what he did %HESITATION this quite what she's wants to talk about hot in her contract with a cap ornaments and that they want to hear the songs she was singing in the fifties and she's just I write one about my cat and I just love the and that she %HESITATION they she was kind of like pot them even though it demanding you know she dreamed about marriage equality she never had thought for herself she didn't have upon and she died at the age of all these cuts and it was interesting to me I like to take yeah we we have this habit of having very positive narratives of gay history in and then once it's kind of like look at this progression narrative I just find it so interesting how she cuts not sure it doesn't end up in headline trying you know with a partner in getting married in white took says it ends with %HESITATION I like creating this week it quit hiding with will have hot animals and greatness is quite an interesting round yeah it's really hot in my consciousness but then it was interesting to you bring that into contacts with suffrage history an archive is well the thing importantly thing at least one of the pay he says it's a quote that's not that's relating to the a very well known suffragettes he was gay and had a same sex relationship but that's the same as what we've realized in this centenary year is high many stories were not hearing because you know we're not hearing about the disabled suffragettes or did people of color you know or the working class stories as much it's you know the pine Kirsten it's always the dominant narratives even if it's fired a soul you're both still taking night does Heddon more press histories of things yeah I think there was a law if lesbians have for jasmine lesbians will always be an Apollo is inquire with men have always been a pot is gave us companion women's campaign and I they also often left out at the normative I did used to sexism intensive day gain clear me of men on had to censor schism within feminism and they get pushed aside even that act that the full front voted days things like Ethel Smith you right the much of the women she's been battles quit now and as I keep a Kobe based in Manchester he was part of the suffrage movement and did a lot of campaigning in favour Himes who the T. P. this is an S. that responses that's not quite collection at pet personal tape is at LSE and she had pun at the you know how we feel about that relationship is documented still three poems in this off five days live this whole incredible life together she was an actress and lack of pre tape drive king and she was a chauffeured to the punk because everything how the field is working is the next on their high end Swiss and I'm B. let's try that and they were that way king and said via and Russia they were prisoners of war evilly Anissa photography and said B. F. doesn't push you when she died of influenza quite young that their homes continue to campaign throughout her whole life and I think it will say the opposite the women involved in the suffrage movement involved in say much more than not like it says on the quote there is two women chassis from that and I'm not actually Chris about punk K. Hessel brunches suffrage was sort of on life in a new disease and the pieces of women's bodies that that's often an artist that gets left his name himself which is %HESITATION these narratives around in a real disease and the maltreatment of prostitutes and women not having autonomy I've that body that forced examinations and and those kind of things and not as tasteful as like posh ladies in green purple and white so yeah I do think that would be more you often get into their homes I've got like three sentences in a book but now it's kind of done this substantial recession nine days diaries from her whole life and I see and Nunes threatens to just fall and I see you bring not narrative in the case %HESITATION throughout history that queer women being at the front of campaigning for people's bodily autonomy and not just the right yet I June the aids crisis last winter that whole time supporting and campaigning in the same way for bush my mother's rights that was that and always complaining but you know it seems this is not just marginalizes tree it is too specific not universal life isn't for everyone you know not yeah it's a bit frustrating in a way I was thinking by the ceramic vases as well I'm thinking if I eat them as vessels and women's bodies as vessels J. yet you want to say anything about it sports we did not live they make their collaborative work that we envisage together that you said you didn't want the textile looks much more ceramic work that's a good thing to touch on because I think I've had a conversation with a friend about that when you came to see the show how you know that's a very traditional way of envisaging the female form as a vessel and I think that is not necessarily narrative that we wanted to go down but it was more the way the ceramics were used by the suffrage movement as being here they had a different table sets and all the different sort of works that they may need to and I think as a form of protest and of a form of reading was because it highlights that long standing view of women as vessels I think of course when creating the works were about the celebration of the symbols that we use with enough practice as well as like a symbol that we gather that the that person hours to be gathered from from the archival research and use the sort of form as a pilot as a celebration rather than thinking negatively about hours within the company %HESITATION with his vessels I think it was intended in a celebration of difference specific elements I think it is interesting to kind of see those ideas come to the forefront and whether that was devised ways taken from the work because of the seats each individual person's experience of the works so I think it's something to be thought of I think it's important that idea of when there are groups of women the carrier were expected to carry or be vassals for other people's problems as well as their own you know just like what you're saying sorry joy there's a lot to mine I defy ideas while maybe that connects to the lesbian history of all of those things so much is coming to light you this we were there idea but you've been a reduced from history it just feels like the works are communicating or attempting to articulate things along those lines Juliet and Serah choice kindly showed me round the exhibition where we discussed specific pieces and more detail beginning with the ones incorporating the present arrow shaped I think you're talking about the looks of this rooms of referencing malicious I think that the different association with that because these were very much taken from the ones that we used during suffrage suffragettes marches you can see they were used in the research and you can see them being used to help they each represented a suffragette who had been imprisoned throughout the fight for suffrage and then the ban is obviously at this point in time they on you know you probably couldn't take the one month you have to have extra copper pulls out its but the jump is another you know that something people do often uses maybe a slow going on their own closing as part of that wave protests and I think this whole room kind of does that entrevistas coming to talk on the dated December eighth in the people she's just left the people's history museum on Saturday and she's talking about kites in my presentation in process and how the US who is being used as a vehicle people using their bodies to present political messages no it was a show at the fashion test house museum in London it was the ship out today and not import political importance of Tatius it out definitely draws on not a little bit I like the way it from a distance and he didn't really see the tax you just see a cute cats and then if you get close up to it you see the tax then and then you see the slave so right those are actually but like pets and I rose on the slave so you actually think a kit kat %HESITATION I want my vote %HESITATION okay there's something I really like that idea of drawing and I think you're saying that as well surgery but did post cards as I say okay cast so I kill oh wait there's something going on there that's not very nice I work this is hitting me in the face there's something not quite right I think that's the thing about feminism and feminist %HESITATION the I've always being invested in is its ability to resist constantly reshape reform and re claim things that has been previously negative into kind of symbolism for involvement not so it's a great about it and in the same way quicker Aug quit coach it does not as well you mean like the would quit was the season in so and it's been we claims and like a lot of my practices about that process it re claiming but doing it slightly differently you may like taking something and I re framing and picking different elements from different things and remodeling it into something else just an observation from may by the arrows as well the objects we were looking at a quite large they're like spears almost yeah in Noam because the water but six foot tall yeah I guess I was trying to go for something of a similar size to what they were carrying and then things but they're they're ceramic on top in the very top heavy but then there's a very simple wrapping around of the ribbon which is then cut into the same so chevron hours during my work in my practice I use it all of chevron's in trying to your neck shape age and I've been kind of like melting some of those different symbols together and taking on that prison hours and if using it with the clitoris as you know a metaphor for the previous situations for female sexuality and sexual pleasure and the negativity does often surrounded S. and possibly sometime still surrounds it and the kind of push forward for more sexual empowerment and education okay we take a look at the other gallery yeah when you come in this space when I came in earlier and I haven't been in before I just sold a quote that the Bacolod while because it's a beautiful objects quite glossy and shiny and then when you go up in the start to read the details on that got it there's quite apart from message and that is something quite regal about it today because it's quite a light purple and assertive ships that have been used yeah I mean I ease lavender lilac could is the law he's the kind of comes again I was talking about light retaining %HESITATION to insult so I was talking about how lesbians being kind of pushed out and I wanted to the women's movement say Betty free day and he right the feminine mystique I have some sort of compensation something she code that's been the laughing the menace of the women's movement the kids they were taking away from the real issues talking about relationships between men and women in domestic space and saying that it was you know putting the attention from my women needed the help the group of women who originally called themselves laughing diminished took on that name intend up from like sliding events and saying no this is going to be a collaboration with all women like we will have to be you know it's the same it's the same impression that affects the school and they eventually became the lesbian avenges so I kind of like take one not pasta %HESITATION nothing death thing is it comes from the system is being rejected from what we think is not much nice great anyway but also focus on the clinical side most lines have since been marginalized yeah you know it goes on and on I mean it's kind of cool regal fights because it was saying about the class numbers hit their high walls ready privilege %HESITATION walls from pipe which company and that's why I'm even strive it is in the will actually came from privileged families because they were bitching of slow and drawn in by saying about the code is in the office hi there what about how much they love hunting and killing thing and then I have not come cheap people and they would you know if she wasn't going to see if she had to work for a living eventually but I think them's Vincent so if with a family because we normally from that class you wouldn't work as an actress is something anyone that but she was great privilege and it left in this big house in Scotland and shop things I think that's interesting and every time I sometimes our history and made K. policy but we're not sure yet she shot stuff and she was probably a bit of snow but still alive as investments in the initials it's the same kind of central image on the table cloth as well say the initials it comes right now is when Adelina died in Serbia very high and asked for her stuff back from the house right and on the list eventually the stuff she wanted back with that bad and on the bad this call for evidence shows in Indonesia there was a wood carving tools such as wild as she asked for some might just say %HESITATION and rocketed by this imagined memory if these two women not carving out their existence and making themselves present in this domestic space that no one's ever gonna see but ended up in an archive and I owe these people really invest in this tiny moment this one thing on the list of stuff that was in the house this opens up this whole space reimagining this well that they've built together so yeah it was kind of thinking about creating this whole domestic imagined quite a massive which is pretty much all of my Protestant kind of does that a little bit in different ways but it's really kind of obvious and the influx these are on opposing walls so the quotas on one wall and pretty much adjacent to it on the facing wall listed table crossing them between we've got the plants with the fast works make up quite a range color should there Seattle six white soft oranges there's more dialects and soft blues with the marking so if you've got the confederacy midges secretly oximeters so we could talk a bit about the axis while and there's more of the arrows and female symbol the double female symbol to the double headed axe the upside down why and the double linking female simple old Serra choices and then the upside down chevron and cancerous on mine and then the prison hours are on the final respects of claims that sweet into a twelve if symbols thirty if you want to open the library so the double headed up to the hospital in my way because it's in these pieces as well and I used it these at all it's just kind of traditional lesbian symbol that kind of turned up probably around the fifties but I think it was that before that I get asked about the law and having a conversation with Phyllis Christopher everybody's trying to explain where it come from it's kind of one of those things that no one's really sure it came from and it just turns up on stuff you know some of it site link to South Bay and I'm is in the lead choose in this kind of all these different everyone's got a different take on it but it comes up especially like I've reset channel if seventies and eighties lesbian archival material and it turns up all the time and not but that's why I kind of like about it when you use the Kennedys histories and stuff you don't have an S. no one's gonna see nation there is no matter what it says this is what I this means this and this means not like it's a very open kind of thing that turns up at the last I'm not a site in these pieces and %HESITATION saves a north coast all in that does this amazing oral history project about lesbian simple but I in the forties and fifties and they took it's about how women have tight teas at the new school stuff on there right that could be covered by water the like kind of like to do that a little bit way not mixing up the time lines a little bit and kind of like cross pollinating the kind of symbols from different times and I'm refusing this one fixed and not site with the lab and I did anyone can actually probably tell you something to say I thank Hon I'm left name but it's up to the real pastries thing is well it's maybe there's no fixed point of origin things profile button there's no rack origin I suppose maybe that's the curse on the bonus of having no fixed origin is that it can be Canadians buy things that's really fascinating and then with one of the larger pots the picturesque symbol I think I discovered it maybe two or three years ago when there was a school shooting about French sex ed classes with three D. printing processes as a way of teaching people and everyone was just shocked that in their workplace like and then people continue to be shocked I didn't know whether I was only getting this kind of information because of you know my search history or something because as I continue to talk about it people seemingly still don't know and like you said you know it's still there is a lawsuit that is hidden and very available information but unless you get kind of shown it you don't see it and prison hours those %HESITATION in the recess room there on loads of different bits of imagery so they're in the March and the using the ones but they're also on some of that sort of mock prison golf you can see them in station invoices into the closing dresses in the a prince of the wiring and then chevrons are big so there's a positive very clear similarity between the chevrons and the ones our heads and the prisoners we took the Andrews asking the panelists because originally we were talking about maybe having them all having a V. pointing downwards then we thought maybe be nice too in the the other two bonus we have one representing each of us and then one representing them suffrage movement so the central Katz was originally going to be Sarah joys cast hang but she wasn't she was unplayable so we end up using stock cats and then we have C. B. and says he wakes Phoebe is there a joint tenants cat and Pacific is mine and my partner's can passed on the last been flocking to the US one this call at the office phones paying for them than white lighter color yeah the little named little east Lothian five exactly no it does yeah but if you've got a good life yes and then it it specifically the W. S. P. A. is not but I think nine days we just associate the green light to park phone with suffragettes yeah I was not sure the well yeah I mean we've done pan suffragists and suffragettes anyway kids yeah the W. S. B. U. A. suffragettes and they were very different to the subjects you came before them and I think people don't really like to take a fall days T. movements in two groups of women because it was a really stop contrast between those that using military tactics and those who would I think people want to like gloss over a little bit this civil disobedience and like you know the kind of blowing stuff off and I it's funny how we fetishized in some ways and I'll cook check but like a lot of the things that they were doing fit into terrorism narrative now but I didn't contact terrorism there you today they were just just a little bit disgruntled the post office and then we'll sources is out today yeah in Kenya in a way and I it's become marginalized and sanitized and I'm kind of hoping that in a way the fact that we had this posh on investor I had high hopes right talking about different kinds of numbers to it in different kinds of histories and in our suit quite fell short of my expectations so I'm kind of haven in a way we've got tons head that there is a ten unit got off before the next son of this week the maybe people would have got the cells together and like we can learn because I was thinking that they have a problem with with these continue anniversaries I'm kind of dates and all kind of chronological way of doing history in remembrance and it's a little bit like I say in the foot well I got what it yet but what about next to any kind of especially when you think means it's feminist well he's quit well you know I feel like I've always go to like new right myself around a day or none of the history of something trauma and called it something that such a base in the local and not something like a lot especially for queer histories and women's histories change of law which is often what we celebrate on mock and memorialized through doesn't really work for those kind of pastries and thoughtful and that Narine things down I'm not really sure what the answer is it just doesn't say a hundred percent comfortably for me having to fit into these kind of technologies if government when actually they were all fat ass radicals and then do the ads to the two year color sentences deep red and orange and pink yeah I regionally I think when I was studying online was using a lot of very sort of muted colors it was lots of you know terror I was still using ceramic cloth terracotta is of the sort of problems and possible some things and also found objects in very very different from one company doing but what changed was leaving university kind of discovering how the all wheel seemingly works at the moment %HESITATION has worked in the past and feeling like of the the very clear gap between you know the the fifty sixty women who are studying ways and the two or three or four who are continuing to practice office wall a vast majority of the men who is studying a role continuing to rice's office that's a generalization but that was what it felt like at the time I definitely think there was a lot to finish season of people who are speaking to who simply felt similar when I was jarred by this and I felt like the work had been previously making it was very very subtle and it wasn't about you wouldn't have a feminist sort of tenderness and then as I left and to sort of discovered all this my what became a bit more became louder and with that the call this changed and they became out of you know what what could produce was me his force be with you and it was a ceramic double ended dildo that I created for shows I had out workplace gallery and it was about me and my personal feelings feeling kind of undermined in the workplace so it felt very resonated with that and then not just kept going on and on while at the time I was creating another fine example when thing that's when I noticed all this knowledge that definitely beyond their own selfish but I'd only just discovered around female sexuality people sexual pleasure and positivity and the organ itself that it felt that that needed to be pushed out civil needed should be out there and spread more units or live a twit doors we see like choosing Cox and things like that and you know that now he doesn't need to continue and also that does need to be in the narrative and the clitoris that's the sort of simply can score on the inside of twelve known to know which is kind of really sad but then if you keep doing it and then hopefully they'll be a continuation and growing I'm standing on the ledge do you both feel that you have to be ambassadors for the sort of things that you do you like do you feel the need to feel pressured to do feminists worker cleared as be in work or anything like that I'm just drawn to it you know when you start to feel something and you feel empowered by that feeling how could you not to teach make work about that it just feels like the natural progression of your practice for me yeah I mean I think all of my what kind of %HESITATION to ethnographic and not not just how it is on hot yeah same thing it's just kind of well I mean John T. you and I don't feel pressured to do it but like I said I just feel like I'm constantly explaining myself making excuses and trying to like open up the door for people to view it and make them feel comfortable and not people just aren't used to encountering what maybe like isn't relating to that personal experience you know this is a few artists that would position themselves as lesbian or may have it jaws like when I tell someone it jobs and then I %HESITATION that's me I'm interested in the space of bumping up against things and people and it's not quite working in China situate yourself in this very specific voice and you know I mean total us not universal so no one's going to be interested in it I think it's to say %HESITATION defiance you know people don't like the word lesbian people you know if they're going to be anything that could be quick and identifies but eighth and yeah it is just a kind of I'm just gonna make well I want to me because it's what I'm interested in what makes my work speak because it is the %HESITATION to know fate I thought so what it does is it brings in a personal and the collective in kind of negotiate stays and now I'm just trying to find my wife working but do you have to explain a lot okay explain my tiring because you feel like you you have to educate people yeah I'm the rest as well as the yeah I think it's a good thing and a bad thing I think that people think that all right yeah he's not the test cells in the Connery we let women in the out both the comic money but we let them in so it's fine and we've done it and it so it definitely is a judgment around that it's boring for it's been good and insight for textiles in particular do you feel like that and craft unit Crofton I hate the words I did see policies crafted in both a biography or community what people see it as something that student finishing move with finishing not now but you never do that so I I start painting and I think there still is a is still the most nice medium you have got these different set of expectations I think it's still a feminist work here you're asked to explain itself why do you feel the need to do that like is always the question because again I think is this that you know we still got this idea of universality and it's a white man exactly it's a diesel yeah and human I think that is still a problem in people I like it is in DC like that as well yeah show yeah I absolutely concur I think that was the you know one of the things about that was really what we had to reset from the material I'll cover research this does a bit of that underlying explaining and research that was undertaken as well as the hand of the comes of the exhibition because there are lots of subtle nuances the coffee into an A4 sheet that need to be addressed and the information thing people still want to know the information I think that it's having it available in this kind of way that mean this vein and this way the space walks but perfectly for that and it was really great to show the work we've been doing for the last two years which didn't fit in with this exhibition specifically was nice to have it that because the phone it you can see like solicitations which doesn't quite fit it was nice to be able to show that yeah yeah it's a beautiful objects it's not in the in the images online for the exhibitions it wasn't overly surprised to see this table as well yeah this is the kind of fight over the stuff that we may move in that did this I was gonna stab us it didn't take the school of the downed opnieuw bridge not so in math and made by some of the criticism I get in my way because it is so complicated on it so you reset space and like I've got a story about every little detail every piece what about Maggie's online dot doesn't necessarily communicate across like you get at in Paktika animation but you know you can't necessarily read all that so it's quite nice when we took him out of sight labor of explaining this yeah and you can come in here and recognize the images recognize that our roads that quotas the cops like you can see and that's really nice to me because I felt I thought something I've struggled with it my way and also just you know having the space to do it we have this room so we could do it I'm thanks to the LSE lots that suffrage time line that you can download for free at that images that will set a bad apple online you can download them that copyright free and %HESITATION save me my PhD is around that's been archived and it's really good to to be able to kind of raise awareness and I show them all the archives in contemporary all and also that you con like this leads online archive site that's been history all five of the films and stuff one line that you don't have to get to New York to reset in an archive so that's nice to like help out here the people in to do a little bit I thought labor he's about acticin the way you've worked was how much extra interesting stuff like when you're talking about %HESITATION quotes going into all the details but if this is because when they lived in Scotland and the dog at the bottom it was a hunting dog and the car at the top at night because of the way we've worked I noticed some of those things that was really great to have those extra elements and extra things well you see much progress in the buff yes and it's really interesting about your practice do you think there's a bit of anti intellectualism coming through in those criticisms I'm quite and inquisitive person and I love that there's so much detail behind what you're dating you I love that there's discoveries to be made in their stories behind things I think there is yeah I think people are so used to like the way that museums and art galleries now this oppression this responsibility to explain and yeah and is part of why the discourse of anti intellectualism and I think the other thing is there's this separation between different groups of people looking at my west Seneca made this quote that weighs five minutes only for the simple reason if different that's being cases from different films and television programs and it's interesting to see the different people in countering it and some people can go through the whole thing and just pick out every single light when it came out what the phone lines and they've got the access route into that very specific visual language and someone else to look at but I want some light and then it and the symbols like the lap race at someone else instant news what that is and to me that's what's interesting about how people encounter things on different levels with that rain context and knowledge and Mike it's okay sometimes thought might not be for you thus the someone else not to if you have people he thought language belongs here and I think not the silence if not understanding another people's language is really interesting and we don't think of the intensive lesbian culture particularly if you think of quick coach at what came on like pops up you have to not drive queens I'm interested in sight coal like wealth and visual material and the language that really is a language that we need like the difference between different people encountering the workers must it not so I find fascinating so it's like trying to find a way the balances between shattering and I think people access that language and %HESITATION said Hey there's a little bit this is how it is right yeah it's funny that idea of it's not universal only a select few people look at this you know and it's like well is that he's been left Titus do you have any I think you know similarly some of the different symbols and things when someone does recognize is really great because you have already right next in conversation and those don't really inquisitive Aktion and it was on a conversation either way it is a positive thing I think there is a really interesting relationships to the symbols on a language that is forged between people who understand it but it's not so exclusive this hopefully this conversation could hinge kind of rectify that so while it may sometimes seems that is very close and very specific to certain people I don't think that this would be the case I think it's available information it's about the motion only but that's done in talking to the people about just where the news other people can kind of find that information for themselves a service ticket or significant set of that process and fragments rather than one piece so it's in several parts into stocks and three Martin yeah this house around okay that we only have access to a small medium build could take the opportunity to talk about a great symbolism practicality yeah yeah I I think you know you smoke is intense though that they were great I love thought what you encounter something with the material and not demands that you do something or ends up influences is nothing not to K. nothing it's like he's invited and I like how this must be it six because I guess with separating intensive time like this is %HESITATION just stuff that yeah you have to date see the kind of sketches I'm not dissimilar doesn't use a sketch with property this is my life it's got specs yeah and then I'm really bad with haven do you want to talk about the events that %HESITATION alongside the exhibition of it say this is screening tonight which will be nice in cooperation with the knife %HESITATION which is a feminist film archive connected and they're gonna mazing collection of old phones say it's kind of taking up all the themes if using craft in using domesticity in bringing out into public spaces a protest toxic but how that was adopted by lesbian activist says a lot of office %HESITATION is a film about section twenty eight with lots of banners in and stuff it's a really nice way to see how people to cook tucks the fridge top tech and is a phone booth seventeen reusable what do lesbians do it bad that's cut from two films because it's kind of cutting the domestic space with a school in public space and night that's what the suffragettes dead yeah it's a nice way to see the similarities with kind of seventies that's been a physician and then on the fifteenth of December two two four Helen I'm suppose he was the pro bom dia PC's medium she is coming to talk about dress Impreza in place I'm talking about some of the collections at the people's issues in so she's also has been very busy this year do you both want to cloak stuff to your website social media or anything all the information about this exhibition on by anal gallery about a month and then my Instagram is at Judea Fleming J. U. L. I. E. T. F. L. E. am I NG my website the same but with the U. K. I do you pay for things on my ends from two separate joy for on the website she surgery for adult cold I will pay for a day since if one doing papers and things will be on that today I can't thank you both enough for taking the time to show me around everything and explaining everything so beautifully thank you so much thank you yeah if you find this useful or interesting and would like to support the continuation of this work become a member on Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures a monthly pledge from as little as one dollar look at you access to extended show notes on previous one of two nations and pine sterling are gladly received at PayPal dot me forward slash P. for their for details on hi my name is used and what resources we need to see the website at all the official culture stopped wordpress dot com follow AP cultures on Twitter and Facebook for regular updates the music used is from common grind by air tone available under creative Commons licensing at stake CC mixer don't work you can also support on Patreon thanks so much for listening caption next time