Audiovisual Cultures episode 56 – Creative Practices with Zhenia Mahdi-Nau automated transcript

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hello and welcome to the official cultures the podcast that explores arts and culture production I'm polo player and I'm delighted to be joined this time by artist Shane yet mighty now pay very kindly shares her experiences and marking across various art forms including documentary and short Film and Northern Ireland very warm thanks to our members on Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures for your continued support for other ways to help fund the podcast and to keep up with our goings on listen to the end for details and to enjoy this really fascinating chapter wishing them yeah the T. L. S. C. R. my name is Shannon it's just it really well I think I've heard all kinds of variations of my name and I just smiled my feeling is Genya Masti now says Jenny is that Russian name my mom was born in Mexico and Shinya which incidentally means genius yes although you know they knew the things he left is my parents in my maiden name and now it's a German name because I was married to somebody was from Luxembourg so I kept it on because my son and so this Russian passion I was born in Iran and abroad happening and just go there and my first notice studies and so we've got that set here as well just in case we get your doggy noises yes test says my god my border collie my sweet friend me go and solution yet good trying to scare your kids year filmmaker and artist and educator mmhm all sorts of things a lot of yeah and things I mean I suppose if I'm looking back at the stuff that I've done is very difficult to just pinpoint one pass the thread in them has been creative in some way yes I have been quite involved in training and teaching and developing some educational resources that were created and have doubled into filmmaking and that's how we met but drawing and painting it has always been a part of it as well then some singing because %HESITATION get on to that yeah yeah and dances while it's very important he is dancing with some U. S. towns is important not because you know it in my head %HESITATION it on to my body not quite yes when I close my eyes I'm capable of doing all kinds of a %HESITATION it said %HESITATION so it's yeah I've had a fascination with dons and movement and how the body I just find the bodies almost like a metaphor for something higher consciousness of something very peaceful and innate in us rather than just a physical thing so I love the metaphors that happened between movement and emotional states and from a very long time ago I tried to draw it and captures in some way and the idea of movement and something very ethereal the happened situational and again more recently I'm trying to see whether I can stocked protective some sort as we can thank and then with talking about tapestry of color issue document chase that is highly Mets fills like a life ago my other ex and probably one of your other lights is one of the things so yeah it was two thousand and twelve that summer of two thousand twelve that I I was editing tapestry and its screen the fast time in September of two thousand twelve and I think it wasn't long after that that we met I mean that was a mammoth project me because before that I made a short film and I've worked with editing and training people in editing I used to work with in the nav centre in Belfast and that's where I began to learn more about editing and filmmaking tapestry was the first time that actually really I managed to get some funding which would never cover many like that you want to do but it really was a labor of love and something that was of real interest to me but a subject that was just exploring how coaches %HESITATION arriving in Northern Ireland and how there is a sense of integration I wasn't I wasn't looking for the conflict areas I was looking at integration areas and see whether could be human stories or other facts and figures it was great I think when we met at mystery that you script button key F. T. so it felt really appropriate actually that it was say that younger generations who were born after the official end of complex here and it was feeling at the time I'm not sure but now if it is feeding at the time I can you Northern Ireland I feel like I straddled in UAE and then I don't live here anymore so I think so much of the film is so much to do with identity and all the intricacies of identity so it was really important especially growing up in such a very white yes yeah and it's great to see so much diversity here knowledge but I just didn't experience up when I was younger even the film educated me on how much diversity there was because I didn't know there were only two communities everywhere else so that was really important that yes just important for the community scare quotes and Northern Ireland to realize they're not the only community health not least but those Terry and there are more to what's going on here than sectarian divisions and there's more to overcome them just sectarian division one of the things that I found was there is I think an underlying belief that people if you come from a certain area then you're likely to share the same thoughts and beliefs and ideas and a pretty much you know you with that bunch and here's this bunch just like you know here in Northern Ireland here are the Catholics and hear the Protestants and hear the loyalists and hear the nationally as well as reality is that these are just names and labels that we give to human beings I've never felt comfortable with the idea of groups being given an identity that bypasses the individuality of the people that are within that group and I think that is something that I've found over and over again I found I've come across it again and it came with all kinds of backgrounds and cultures it is and you need to know the nine it's something that happens everywhere and I think partly because people feel comfortable with them and not everybody wants to particularly feel an individual within a group and I do so I'm particularly conscious of that and sensitive to that but also partly because it's an easier way to address a whole group of people instead of thinking about their individuality is a lazy way to address humanity of someone and I came across that over and over again where people would buy that I mean tapestry of colors there are some uncomfortable conversations it was very difficult to get those uncomfortable conversations because people don't always want to say what they feel and it was an interesting thing to find somebody who was able to do that was and she saw nothing wrong with that which was great for me get it on record it and she was very happy for that and I think for her it was having a police %HESITATION which was good but in a sense I thought it was quite naive as well too and she assumed that this is okay you know that this will be for thieves generally okay all kinds of dynamics were going on but what I found was most fascinating is always to find prejudice Waveney suspected and find open heartedness where you least expected that's the P. two things I think that's well and I did find that over and over again where you live so really it's like from the background that this person comes from educationally socially culturally they probably are going to have a lot of views that would be probably negative about having all kinds of cultures and then I was so nicely surprised that wasn't the case and then the person who did find you know said things that you know they come here and take our jobs and that kind of stuff was from somebody who had lived quite a number of proteins this process today yes yes and but the reality was that it so if you need to explore that was somebody who was in the questioning close area it was fascinating is really fascinating but because my eyes lit up and I so unusual things happen come Roger using paper you wouldn't expect that somebody was Irish and I travel the abuse of for the they just complimented each other and and that's where you you really see that humanity has none of this them and us there is justice yeah which is really peaceful to see yeah essentially as well because there's a guy from a loyalist marching bands the orange marches and that sort of thing so this better coverage of that as well and what he says is quite fascinating and not as this is our cultural display and if you believe those same things we don't care what you look like you're one of us but anybody is welcome to come and see us and that sort of thing so that was quite interesting the here and I don't know hi people favor but that was then and and I weigh stops but I have to say when when I was filming that part it was very pops where it was it didn't particularly feel welcoming yeah %HESITATION I stood out like a sore thumb and I didn't mind you always been outside is it doesn't really matter and that particular conversation will gain very clearly was there was two sides to that story and that was at the edges were very shop on both sides on the one hand you say you know I mean anyone is welcome but why did you do and say as I say and do yeah everything when the weather isn't filled with people who all believe the same thing the whole point is that we attack us we have different experiences and they're full welcome cannot be just to those who are exactly like me because then it's not welcome welcome means an open door that allows people to be who they all provided they don't actually home use it's an interesting thing to watch people's perceptions of what he would issue an old granny who believed to be the same thing in a welcome Indians come in welcome but actually no it doesn't only if a B. and C. you meet these criteria then you're welcome so then you know that calm so that was interesting yeah yeah I have other friends who are artists who found that orange marches and here also when men and there may be actually from Protestant unionist communities but they're still outsiders because they're maybe from a different place in North India and then there filming them in Belfast or whatever it happens to be it can be so tight now than anybody's website cider can take a long long time to earn trust there were areas I wanted to film and not just about people who are native to the nine yeah like that it took me a long time to find anybody from the travelling community and I was very lucky that I was able to find somebody and he just musically exemplified what it means to you know integrate with people and that's always the case but %HESITATION so from the Roma community digested managed to let her try hello I couldn't get that it's a very close knit close community there was a loss of knocking on doors the students you know obviously a huge part of any filmmaking in sixteen minutes of kementari is to research that you're doing in trying to to find the possibility to fell possibly because I'm neither here nor there I'm not the concert no Protestant I'm not from me %HESITATION simply that made it more comfortable for people just just because I was not a threat but I did in one instance I found that really bizarre because one of the people who always saying you know they come here and take a job the person who lived there for many years abroad she spoke to me in such confidence that I should have you obviously part of my job is you know because I am welcoming you know I want to hear and I don't want to say no and this and you content there will obviously will be things that I feel no this is not part of what I want to do but you know that was that I wanted to have a story I found it so intriguing to tend to me somebody who clearly doesn't sound okay perhaps I don't sound like the typical immigrant who has recently come here but I don't look at northern Irish I definitely don't look like you know even though it may sound boring which I didn't you can see it you know my background must be from an immigrant you know and as it happens is from a refugee kind of background and yet to speak to me so we speak the same language you know they come here and take her to the so so often my thoughts as to speaking I am one of the people you do not see that I'm in that in itself is a bit of a dichotomy because you kind of thing this individual office he has humanity you know who feels that can connect with you did we %HESITATION you know from whatever background to whatever stories we have we come to the perceptions of me come to arrive at the printing plate that social conditioning can only really be that sort of thing that I reckon that produces the sorts of attitudes or I would say S. lack of logic and a way to do that for me was a logical to say on this issue with me but then in another part of the film someone speaks about his children being color blind and not seeing difference between paper but the reality is there are differences and you need to address those differences so that people are not under privileged because of that difference for that reason alone but that the children growing up at the time that was two thousand and twelve when I was filming he was saying that his children are lucky to be in that sense they say that color blind they don't see a difference and I suppose what I'm thinking of the lady that was talking to me and saying you know they come here and take a job do you see what I mean you know that intimate conversation with me in a way she was being colorblind yeah because maybe she saw U. S. British because of your accent and maybe that maybe an inverted form of oxytocin or maybe it's paperless from a foreign accent yeah Hey or that you know a culture that we cultures all different people's practices and lives a very different and they don't sit comfortably always with each other you know so and that's a reality it's not comfortable so I can understand what so what if it was really really uncomfortable and you have families that settled into a community whose ways and practices you so unfamiliar with and you just don't understand and it's hard on both sides I think it really is you know to find a way is that and it takes time but I think more than anything what helps is actually to be open to kind of meet each other somewhere along the way it works both sides you can only really chat with somebody about this issue said very able to safely talk about them and that the country a light that space for somebody in a very safe for the voices concerns because I think part of the problem arrange for stellar nearly three years and no over three years and trying to do this brexit style yeah and so much anxiety right now has been people not feeling like they're a law eat to talk about how to fail so maybe it's something like that and I wonder if it's for me not for me to try and psychology ISIS person but I wonder if there is an anxiety about having being away and then coming back possibly and maybe that was something this person was working straight but I don't really have a tough day for him you know everyone has a story yeah Hey those screenings that I went to people I didn't know would come and say you know they're very nice but the felt when they were saying because you know I was in your country and and they would tell me the stuff that they've done in the food to the taste and all this stuff as though I'm still there and I'm here to visit to say listen you know as a child when I was living in Iran my parents didn't come from you know what our families they worked really hard my father came from poverty so by the time I'd come along and I was an afterthought thanks with five children I was the fifth and %HESITATION my oldest brother was almost seventeen years older than me so I really wasn't meant to be there but by that stage life had become a lot more comfortable for them because my family %HESITATION hi and I'm at the high as well and the highs have been persecuted hugely in Iranian culture right from the start of the the high fifties and incidently Bahai teachings are about one this of humanity and you don't get involved in party politics and it's really humanitarian kind of religion that really is about uniting the saying there was this one in human beings as one but these teachings are very threatening for governments and institutions in places where you really people %HESITATION have to blindly follow and be told what to do so it's a whole history of persecution and executions when I was growing up none of that was that that I could see but I was quite protected I think but there were undercurrents of it always when the Iranian revolution happened things turned upside down by that stage we'd already been living in England I had no history no concept of that I just had it from my parents my father has gone into it every time and then he went back to Iran two the only means of %HESITATION you know financial support was his pension and he'd managed to finish paying the mortgage for the house and hands of the tendency was providing our living costs and the tenants stop paying so my father went back to see what was happening it was at the stage when life was becoming very difficult for bodies they introduce columns that if you want to leave the country you have to say what religion you %HESITATION and of course my father couldn't put anything other than getting behind and he knew that that could be very very dangerous so ended up instead of a couple of months which was the intention to be that to be there for four years any escape through the mountains of Turkey meanwhile through the years the house was confiscated so does all the belongings I sold his pension was stopped and there was nothing so we will have to become refugees as a result so this is kind of the stories of very real although I have to say I never experienced the hardships on refugees I was too young so I was protected from all sorts and I've had things I know my father and my mother and I had only recently from cousins who had known my dad and had said that the reason he left was his name would come up on the list and he was going to be executed and his crime was that he was helping the highs who everything everything belonging had been taken so he was assisting with taking contributions from others to help them survive that was his crime there's all sorts of stories about the refugees I developed a very British kind of identity my friend's role in missions I went to school in England and and and at the time I was the whole idea of being Iranian wasn't it felt very uncomfortable for me because I wanted to integrate into this new than a teenager and it's ME later really that it began to dawn on me that the difficulties of refugees go through I suppose I felt when I was speaking to people who are coming from a different background like the okay the difficulties that they experience arriving not speaking the language and not knowing anything something the shops and arriving in years and how difficult it must be for them it's having by that stage had so many of the stories that was familiar from family yeah the film had all kinds of meaning for me as well as opening it up for compensation yeah I was thinking as well by and I do have that sense of home a talking it by your own background as well yeah initially the moving part in the film where I think it's a lot fan woman talks about aids just hearing other people speak about fan and she wants to go over soon because she suddenly felt ready home sick yeah and just one at that topspin's said something she felt she had to leave hi end but they didn't want to know because they just ashamed she would want their help yeah I just find that really so how does he have and the the reality is that existing laws and you can kind of understand both sides but ruled the sight of the person who's just arrived and it's so difficult so so unfamiliar and now I mean I have quite a few friends are from different backgrounds and left fans as well it's lovely to see how integrated they are and but it's the long journey for many people and I think a conference at home enough the fact that people arrive not necessarily as their first choice but that because they have to and what would you do if you have family or child and you want to give them hope home K. as a set of high and I and the fellow with the S. S. but one country and mankind is its citizens it's a quote from the homeless writings because really these quotas a man made board really there is only one hello the building is anyone S. we live in and how peaceful if we could actually see each other is going to be able to travel and be what we need to be instead of thinking on this but it is mine because ultimately that's a game from the high rises ultimately or what you're fighting for is the basic ground that you can be buried in you don't take it with you it's not you know so why it seems really bizarre to think of it as this is mine the whole nationalistic kind of approach that is exist very much these days you know current inclusion in U. K. you can see that it's a very worrying thing that's happening globally it's a place but we have to hope I think that's what but the title of the film the tapestry idea that so beautiful because well what's the topic street soul it's a different threads woven together and they have to work together to be a long thing even the %HESITATION the image for the marketing image in the DVD admits the cover of it S. all the different flags via recreate melded together anyway and the shape of Northern Ireland but there's almost a cage and to the Republic as well because this is another arbitrary ordered which is night contestants again a gay yeah yeah yeah the idea of the tapestry thing was because I was trying to make it into and using my visual imagery into digital imagery skills to kind of make that looked like a tapestry and woven thing and then the reality is that we are all threats of the Saint there is no no real difference and really it's just it seems hope is all but interestingly when you talk about the flags because obviously I was really castle to make sure everyone knows there all morning and to all the people who contributed in the film the flag of that country is in and it was so conscious that particularly aware of the situation in the Irish and the British flag and the hand of Ulster and all this kind of business school featuring but there was one of the screen is because what I had to preview it set everything into those old kinds of invited audience VIP's and things it was wonderful and then from that stemmed quite a lot of screenings I was really working with councils and that good relations offices to see that if they could invite paper that had something to say in their communities so that they'll be a panel discussion after the film city people don't come and sit and see it and then go and those are really interesting and I'm obviously I was on the panel but I want to make sure local people and but that really interesting most places amazing conversations happened but in one particular place which was to remain nameless somebody at she will travel to right the stock because the Irish flag looked a bit smaller than the British just so wow that's so interesting to it's just yeah that was very interesting conversations on the phone then what sprung from the film was there's lots of people wanted to use it as an educational kind of tool but it's too long first there was a lot of what shops that I was doing councils with Janet and I edited the film into so small extracts somatic stress that we could have so what ships in conversations about each of those what they mean and how that the following year was able to get some funding to an educational resources but that really I worked with within the sofa Sierra which is the curriculum yeah exam board one of the people there and I simply wanted to make sure to %HESITATION ticked all the boxes for teachers so that they could teach and we had a plan that went to a number of schools and youth groups and it was really really interesting very positive about comes out of those and just it was impossible to continue it as an online business because costs involved and because we couldn't get the funding that schools couldn't raise the funding to be able to have the truth I mean as a project is a holistic project I think the film then led to other conversations I felt what's really well there was a lot of conversations I had with politicians %HESITATION results of it which were also very interesting took me a whole new area an Avenue of professional web that really as an artist is not my thing although I'm quite confident and I'm quite happy to present and talk about things but then I just felt it's taking me further and further away from the office in the Clinton yeah I mean I thought I don't know if that's something that just naturally came to a conclusion or if the climate of things for the past few years has actually acted as well because not only a set of cracks initiated by the fact that there's been no local government here for three years so let us come to a standstill ready with arts funding in general was funding has been cut huge anyway but I think with the work that I was doing I think it came to a point when %HESITATION I found I just was hitting my head against a brick wall speaking and really the number of fantastic conversations presentations to various VIP's and heads of this and that and the other one they're all wonderful but really what I found what I'm trying to do is having more funding to do further for the walk and it seems like as you say it came to a point where they need to to stop because I ate the amount of time and energy that I was putting into that which was not in any way rewarding not just financially but creatively it wasn't recording anyway related to it so do some work that was I suppose that experience helped in the rest of the work that I was doing as well I did some creative consultations for the arts council when the for some of the cities and towns over doing building peace through the arts time out they want to have and those things and some of the other projects that it is on the phone network that I did was I'm sure at the back of tapestry helped along with those but I think yeah I think it's come to a point where I feel now my passion these go back to what we touches my home matches all persons like interpretive color she's quite a bit of your own vocals and there is that something you'd like to like basis you're singing in your vocalisation where yeah I mean the singing I I was in a bind some years ago cool trespass and we reckon melodies and stuff I was doing and but at the time fast I was using a lot of the Bahai writings because they so views from poetic and then I was writing the lyrics and stuff but the film and documentary kind of sound tracks that I have done some work on this a few things like caramel is pump go George image to some music for the soundtrack of the style of kind of work that I've done a gain on tapestry can seat as well the tapestry actually the focus for that initially was for a a more for channel documentary called monkey left by double bond and it was about Harry hello who's a psychologist who did some GPS workers %HESITATION baby monkeys in the fifty cents at the head of a document checks I was approached by a friend of mine who is doing the soundtrack for it and it has my kind of rule never cool stuff so it began kind of vocal recordings that were very much non verbal but it was much more about and %HESITATION see failing and the undertones of eastern sound and a lot of that I suppose comes from when I was a child I remember my father used to he had a beautiful voice he's the same he's a chance behind cries he had a voice like a medically backed just beautiful so I guess that means the committee here is a one of the recordings that ended up again on tapestry and the more recent years I did some work for graduate failed from his film engines caught his so I went to ten men to watch with Toby marks A. K. A. I'm good to go yeah so we recorded some record claims that he actually had Lisa Gerrard and she then had pulled out and he was looking for somebody who did that kind of thing and again my friend who had done the stuff for the double bind home and told him about me so I'd sentence and stuff and like to talk to about I think that was a very beautiful creative hope felt experience because I just awesome to put on some records leave the room let me improvise that Saturday's game about and there were a couple of those tracks featured on the Apollo which is under the guise comeback album I felt very happy I'm very happy with those creative efforts that sounds like a great way of collaborating he's just awesome to trusting yeah yeah that kind of singing is very much a singing your hall yes %HESITATION this thing so it's not a you know press a button here comes it has to be an he knew that I guess that's why he asked me to do it because it's the other stuff that I've done we had to just try it and it seemed to work and he was happy with it but each of those are very much associated with a particularly poignant emotional experience I was having at the time so I know I have to tap into that and really sing for that seem to work they're really haunting and they're very beautiful to listen to their C. eastern offense but there is something and there is it just made me think of an Irish connection as well because there's the caning that's done by women %HESITATION speaking robotics in Ireland and that sis cry from within when you come to cry and to expand access sign that comes from within and that's something between crying and singing and wailing it's quite an incredible thing to behold and it reminded me of that as well actually this thing too because it does feel like it's from the heart there is something distinctive because it does actually signed the life force so much music in this process voices and processes and I'm gonna put some links up on our oceans because there it was ready I see somebody told me that originally there are links between the Celts the patient's rights whether that's true or not but maybe intrinsically interesting thing that I have done quite a bit of research in the past few years on the engine borrowed since trying to see what's Mexico and what's not and I think historians for a couple of hundred years at least there were making everything very separate and actually there's a lot of revisionist research going on saying no there is a lot of evidence that everybody was more doing talks in yellow and purple to believe so that they can surprise me isn't it a symbolic thing the fact that we have she will hello by colonial civilizing missions making people author when actually people are coming together in trading and there are areas that weren't so much colonial about say a Greek tried bridge go to one place and he checked the Alexandria error nearby and they would have a joint community they would actually have a %HESITATION hello Jepsen community that was shared in their chair daisy something that would be amazing yes okay and I it wouldn't surprise me as opposed to an Irish poet tone please I don't know I hope it's true it sounds nice yeah things like there would be an affinity I think you have to see it yeah because it it's it's a bit of a lemon to submit business unless them often sing into my son the yes because he's into twice yeah with my hot would you like to talk about it from a few years ago some of the projects you were commissioned to do the arts kind so some of the short films so if years ago there was a project that I did that consisted of five phones and it was full I think she's still exists and there's a few communities in north Belfast and it's cool to draw down the walls of for that particular year in two thousand fifteen the commission five short films working with five groups of people it was about invisible barriers and exploring that I love actually working with people and finding very kind of unusual creative ways to bring out draw out stories from people and it was really nice because there was a couple of groups that way in that location code there was one group in the auto and area and there is one group that while unemployed people and there was another group that was just young people who wanted to make films this is a variety of kind of experiences and to explore the sense of otherness and belonging and not belonging in I had some really fascinating stories particularly I think what moved me was the location code downs and it's somewhat with the younger people but it was a low Chanchal adults that I found really fascinating a lot of them laughed telling me the stories of people being imprisoned and really hard lives lots of suicides and the difficulties of the young people and the people who've been in previous times involved in paramilitary groups and and how that communities affected by it and yet I have to say it was one of the loveliest kindest group of people I met there was so genuinely very welcoming that was a real eye opener for me difficult difficult areas to live and so those five phones within shown as part of a mini festival that happened the first Film Festival was hosting them so that happened in a number of areas and then for months that we showed it to the city hall and then the publication was based on it was pretty stunned than it did during the kind of thing around so it was an interesting very difficult project I have to say %HESITATION difficult project of really interesting but I did meet some really peaceful people an offensive game breaks all your preconceptions which is really nice pretty nice yeah we can actually be something that site yeah the room of the muse convicting me pages was he could see those really interesting exploring what really all that means and just breaking those barriers which we all have I found the ones that were really responsive to my very wacky Pacelle everyday I've come up with some strange way of exploring things with the young people that you met at the golden thread gallery because it was just a friend it was great it was or you can't so yeah it was so many parts of that and I really felt was a very worthwhile really positive protect which took away their residency with room three yeah so this is what really is My Baby no so for quite awhile I had this idea that I wanted to explore it came Johnson movement through the lens and finding ways to really there is a distance between the performer and the audience this online and I think I have experienced it when I'm being at a performance that when I'm so mesmerized him so invest in what I'm seeing experiencing that I'm becoming opponent if you know what I mean because it's so beautifully done there are a few things that I've been to always contemporary it's the most beautiful will be WrestleMania fans of tonight all so I just my heart just isn't wrenched it just being not even an observer and Paul if that becomes that as I'm watching it and become the performance even though I'm not a forma so I really want to explore that place where you go beyond this world it's an otherwise it's an otherworldly experience it's a higher consciousness it's spiritual it's a different round of fascinated to resign moments in that and I wanted to explore that through movement and dance and I was lucky enough to meet and photograph the peaceful Tomlinson was partially sighted cone head on whole beautiful movement beautiful polity and so I wanted to work around that so I had applied for residency sometime before and so I was able to do it at that time so I went to Tyrone Guthrie now imagine this you know this is in June of two thousand eighteen when the summer was amazing %HESITATION for anybody who hasn't been there it's really peaceful grounds or green and there's a lake and the sun beaming every day and I had to cut its to with them and I had a studio to myself I took everything and I want to animate so I was able to animate the movements and %HESITATION and the idea really is it's a bit of a dream for me to have an installation performance kind thing based on this this is right but the start of a project so I was able to really get started into that and produce a kind of work and sounds and things that I felt great he would work with it it was just a dream of a time that for me I just was amassed into that really was so peaceful and the paper was so lovely and met some really wonderful artists as well I'm so fascinated also by the academic side of things well academia matches with creativity lots of useful said I really like to see if I can take this off into its own proper research a PhD yeah but a practice based PhD where I can put you sweat but really look at the kind of the intellectual side I did as well but pretty touch around that is for me is so fascinating we'll see I've written a proposal what let's see if I would go anyway yes yeah yeah if it's meant to be well hopefully it's finding the right place two days yeah yeah yeah the tricky part yeah I mean if I die I live in Northern Ireland now and one of the things they did to us last year was to build up the studio space so I don't plan to be moving anytime soon so if I can do it through here university okay great or if I was able to do it somewhere else but I can actually continue to stay here and yes so we'll see unexplored possibilities and see what happens so as well as the PhD idea but you were saying that you go really into your painting yeah I've started to get because the whole idea here is her ago three was that I begin to bring in all elements of the things that are tied up into my creative practice soak painting was I mean I exhibited in a few different places before and I hadn't been painting for awhile and the figure always feature is not portraits but again movement and %HESITATION limbs and bodies and sick and starting to see if I can reconnect with painting and games it's a slow process but I saw to it that someone you know %HESITATION after painting the game on the go so we'll see yeah I just think it's you know with creativity it's for me it hasn't been a career it's a vocation in life although thankfully it's and to me it's tough to be able to live off off and on and off but generally it's not something that you then stop it needs to be something that I see is at the core of what to do and again the idea of creative practice %HESITATION and the creative impulse being a border this thing as well here a long time ago I remember speaking to somebody about being an artist and at the time I haven't painted anything and he was about you you know painting I remember thinking I felt very annoyed H. and thinking but your analysis is a part of who you are is woven into it it's not when you paint that threw it off this is not what you write it's just do you own and I think it's an even in everyday conversation it's just being looking at things in a different way in a creative way for hearing things in a different way so he went to the direct anybody to find out a bit more about what you do or say some of your work you can see some of my work on my website said M. and creative studio dot co dot UK and so my fellow work are on them like a music channel but also my email is there you can contact me I'm always open full interesting ideas and particularly when different all forms much that's what I find most fascinating weather is music and sound in towns and painted animation he knew just where it goes yeah and it's a like minded souls that kind of connection I love the idea of that so yeah I'm always open to that but it's it's and yet thank you so much to come thank you enough %HESITATION thank you and I am in love with your dog yes and creatively training a dog that's another thing to do she knew sought some tricks you know %HESITATION yeah okay did you couldn't see the trees in %HESITATION do you think but I will show you she's a sweet but it's thank you very much remembering up thanks to OD official cultures with very special guests Genya muddy now and tests at the dog this episode was presented recorded edited and produced by polar bear the music is common grind by our tone licensed under a creative Commons noncommercial license and is available for download from CC mixer dot org episodes are released every other Wednesday please wait share and subscribe on your chosen nesting platform to help others find the show to help cover costs of making and distributing the podcast please consider making a regular donation via libera pay dot com forward slash PP a planner or one of two nations to pay pal dot me forward slash P. A. Blair just a pint or whatever you can spare is a really massive help follow AP cultures part on Instagram and AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook to keep up with what we're doing thanks so much for that catch you next time

Audiovisual Cultures episode 51 – Roaming Privileges with Dr Simon Ward automated transcript

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hello and thank you for tuning in to another episode of audio-visual cultures I’m the host and creator Paula Blair and I’m delighted to be joined by dr. Simon Ward’s associate professor in the school of modern languages and cultures at University of Durham we caught up at Newcastle Tyneside cinema over a screening of Christian pets old’s adaptation of transit about a German man fleeing a fascist regime spreading from Germany to France and while trying to get transit papers and Marseille he falls in love with the widow of the writer whose identity he assumes huge thanks to members on forward slash a V cultures unto everyone listening sharing and engaging on social media I have more details for how you can get in touch and support at the end do you enjoy this spoiler if ik discussion with Simon so obviously all you’ve never seen a film before whereas I taught one or two of them for many years now I’m much more attuned to the kind of style the kind of the manner the kind of cinematic references that are going on there that someone would a relative knowledge of German film will pick up I mean they’re pretty iconic images but I suppose what we were just saying there was Petzl starts writing about contemporary or making films but he writes he’s an outer in the old tradition really in many ways he starts making films about contemporary Germany and shift from traditional social structures to a more fluid and investigating those structures and there’s a fantastic moment right at the end of the film there so these are spoiler alerts although if he can read German the spoil is there at the very start of the film when we’re dramatically focusing on the fact that the ship has gone down the shot is actually piloted is of the man there doing the labor of loading up the band who is clearly a not from Marseilles clearly an immigrant or illegal or some kinds of work he said we operating in that system and that’s very petal and petal learn that from Shiraki the focus is on labor focus on the world of labor and that’s what we’ve got to have in your image your image has to always try and do justice to the fact that there is labor in course here so the image is country even though we’re being carried along by the melodramatic I kind of focus on the fact that the boats gone down how lucky unlucky etcetera for everyone this whole situation that’s a very very pets all bein rocky is her rocky moment it’s something he’s that’s where he kind of learned it from but I suppose why I was trying to say and I’m rambling here was that he moves from contemporary Germany in the last few films to historical material so the previous when Phoenix was about a Holocaust survivor and so returns to that very typical German material and this is obviously very historical as well but then completely played with your mind by setting a film or a book a novel is set in 1940 then seems to be playing out in the present no it’s really weird the clothing is sometimes four thirties forties certainly the central character seems to be operating in that kind of dress code no mobile phones obviously right but obviously the leash stateless operating again petals so aware of the images yeah that we are contemporarily confronted with and what he’s doing is there’s probably a lot of Brecht in here as well yeah it’s a lot of Fassbender there’s a scene where they’re in the castle there’s any number of romantic Superbird I think I can we’ve seen it is there’s only ten minutes to come but there’s a scene where the two of them at a Congress but it’s a male female too and just behind you’re a sailor and a woman who are gauging in their just kissing as it weren’t it there’s a lovely scene in problems marriage of Maria Brown which again is right at the core of this if you think about Maria’s obsession with her husband although that’s already in the novel it’s also the core of web presence in anyway that kind of thing classes are love we’ve seen it where I think it’s a memory of maybe some rest of what so much mass business where there’s kind of like sexual congress going on in the background really disrupting what you’re supposed to be focusing on so yeah there’s lots of that so Toni sort of fifty minutes I found now quite intense it’s really intense because I mean we were sitting right to the front so you’re there’s no one between you and the images as it were I just think at this point today and it’s just funny when you have people on the film saying in two week it’s gonna be chaos here and they obviously mean that social cohesion is about to break down and it’s already broken down in so many ways is lack of trust between the French and the Germans who are passing through and what’s actually filmed in 2017 so where it’s kind of it’s not I don’t think I mean it must have because it’s fascinating hearing conversations with God and Europe in these countries and we’re in the middle of it and it feels very similar it just felt like a bearer like right in the top in a transitional space yeah we can watch the street the alleyway

there’s a lot of that in them and so much normality obviously one of the things I said before that I’m obsessed with this away pet uses cars

yes absolutely I mean obviously people seem to be conducting a kind of semi visible but it feels very much like we’re watching this absolutely small but

probably nobody sorry but you’re absolutely right I mean Jeremy the we can’t call it that there are certain phrases in German you can’t use like the Jewish Question that already alluded to the fact that there is a question of so in Germany don’t open Lewis question cuz that’s a racist framing and also in Germany there is a debate about immigration that again that’s also romantic way of describing it and Petzl is also looking into intervene that because there is a typical populist agitation against immigrant populations in Germany manner which has been there were problems around unification there has always been about others we know that it’s very much today there are so many shares so it’s 1930s Germany so it’s circulating everywhere yeah okay one of the things I would say in why it’s not in pencils defense but you know there is no hero here I’ve read the novel but I can’t remember the novels that well what’s happening obviously in the Pillman you’ve got this voice coming in which seems to be a novel authority so in a sense it’s a story foretold in descendants you what you’re right it’s too it could be described as too intelligent too clever for its own good this is this what we worry about now I think to be fair what Petzl tries to Tony does this in all his films is construct plots which will draw us in and supposed to work on a property but again is it too clever it’s a bit like Fassbender who will use melodramatic plots as a kind of structuring device to draw you in the deeper politics but again is that and that’s why I wonder whether pets are everything stuck actually in his admiration for new German cinema and for the kind of hopes for what you might hope film to do there’s too much expectations in its weight placed on the capacity of film to generate the cars but I thought we all at the end Harbor that’s right that very much reflects at where this is happening right but also because the to do is to look somewhere between and that’s why there’s a lot of language in here and that again brings back to then there’s a brings about new German cinema which was obsessive like no sorry I’m being a big unless you matter so he German speaking French to the boy the boys transmitting and to the German yeah it seems to have a German yes and then so the boy is

for anyone listening to this you have to go watch Alice in the cities by them vendors where the boys eating the ice cream outside the cafe there is a sequence that is absolutely in other cities which one of my favorite films which is a film about an older man with the younger child traveling lost in Europe but again that comes in the mid seventies and so this historically place is actually closer to 1914 vendors filming 274 is almost important medicines fill mr. vendors fill and it’s important because it’s night actually integral to the refugee crisis that’s been ongoing for several years mine all over Europe and yeah they’re becoming highly skilled you see Molly’s radiatively new stories about kids a common English is maybe their third or fourth language and then there Kelly yeah if their exams are absolutely just yeah well you don’t need to talk to me about the benefits of learning a foreign language again that is so invisible that is generally presented in the I’m not gonna use the word mainstream media but essentially the conventional perspective is this is a problem that we have children using this is not the first language in our schools and yet we have no teaching them and it’s happening invisibly really and I think think that’s one of the things trying to make certain things visible that won’t or was particularly visible and animal and this is where he’s coming from the kind of particular for rocking yes for Rocky is critique lifted conventional media images that we get on a daily basis to your face it gets interesting as well is that it’s a reminder that white people are also considered to be refugees or have been at some point yes or no I’ve learned not just from people but we today and 2019 consider refugees I mean Brian

personally always been the case white people are also krills or they’re white people one of the things that’s very much belongs to novel in the period is you have middle class Jews being displaced and are being you know so you have the one with dogs and the doctor both of whom come from middle class backgrounds I’m not Syria today because people here exactly they have been yeah they are intelligent they are educated they have a lot of skills and abilities and again the perspective we have is very simplistic and it’s just an important reminder that actually it knows no color there’s discrimination of so many different counties and I’ll show you if you’re a refugee if you find yourself is a refugee Piper you managed to get kind of depend want your economic background maybe well this doctor has 5000 in the film the doctor has 5000 whatever suggests we didn’t mix in the currency no they just said it because of course my reviews are going to change because I’m weird the swords and there were certain sequences they were reminding me I wouldn’t be surprised it’s a long time you know when

know to be honest I think we’ll pet salts much more Cindy literate Malaya and you can pretty much take for granted that if he is Chris Marker in to play keyboards but that’s also our problem isn’t it with these directors who know so much and I’ve watched as much sitting there a lot much more tuned by the way out is it becoming fact that yeah I mean I’ve already I’ve already guilty of it already but I would make an argument for the lilius they’re bringing borders of these places up and I think they place themselves in that lineage of experimental filmmaker and that’s what’s interesting about pencil that’s what makes Paula’s films really interesting as they are generically satisfying we’ve got a melodrama you’ve got a story you can enjoy it for the two hours but this food for thought I suppose it’s that idea you know because I’m going in and I know basically nothing about the Somme you know where as you’re very familiar with and there were times when I was questioning no exactly it was the zombie riffle yeah I thought that was a reference its own of the day yeah exactly and it was very I think it was something that you could imagine somebody in the fifties or 40 just saying oh wait 20 in that world I think we can’t know is trying to fight consistency and I think that’s quite a little room there is that mixture of tiny levels so come back tomorrow time is kind of the logic of history that there’s some kind of progress and that we move forward and we leave stuff buying we’re actually dealing with the traces of a horse in Europe here and so the way which are present every port city you go to they are there what were you saying you were so at the anachronism this is then a film this is a world and which Dawn of the Dead exists but Casablanca does because there’s no way this film exists simply yeah so it replays Casablanca and the boy lets the other guy go off with a girl but at the same time and this is the pencil my point always capitalism drives it so it’s not presented as a heroic act so it’s very clear that there are economic transactions all the time it’s weird because I was wondering my feeling was there’s a moment where it shifts into genre mode and it’s the moment where the two of them are sitting on the bed and up to that point it’s been kind of you know we’ve been paying attention to those kind of contemporary politics and the raids and suddenly a narrative love story it’s almost like you decide Petzl almost decides it’s on us and it’s almost so clunky you think this is a bit nonsense where it suddenly becomes the love story and there’s and again another Maria Brown thing okay with the scene where it comes back from the war ever mr. Brown is I don’t remember his name mr. brown come back from the World War and she and he finds Maria in bed with a black – American GI and then there’s a fight and then mr. Brown goes to prison for his wife having anyway yeah now that’s see it’s almost exactly it’s not sexy but it’s very similar but it was like right we need something to keep the moon be going now because there’s a lot of the images are very pretty even though it’s late already

I think oh you’re up you’re up yes very bright very bright sunny push graffiti everywhere I mean and I do think that’s really interesting in terms of shots of Marseille and I think you could imagine a critique of the film or a criticism of the film which says actually this isn’t what more say looks like you know I mean that area where interests and his mother lived really quite no it doesn’t I mean so innocence and this was just surely our favorite bit this brings me back to my favorite bit when he’s being asked why aren’t you gonna go write about this stuff and that sort of the new German cinema again because my favorite bit of the film there’s no question is my favorite the family says oh yeah we went on a trip and we had to write an essay about it let’s go there and we’re in Italy so much that you’ve actually also spoken always deserves of Showtime that’s what the point is it you know he doesn’t want to have to make social conscience so much it doesn’t want to have to do an essay about that and so the criticism which comes out and that it’s not Ken Loach it’s not pretty enough that doesn’t look pretty old sorry my other favorite bit was he says no I don’t wanna be a writer I want to be a film and TV technician yeah and those are three very important concepts I think so not an artist but a work an engineer someone who makes make stuff work so it’s not about being an artist yes absolutely but also that you’re a technician Europe rather than think someone who was the romantic imaginary of the poet who dreams up all this stuff you’re actually working with a set materials which you have to engineer in a certain way to construct so film is in district as a kind of engineering exercise I think is yeah I think that’s very sensible I was thinking as I’ve just done year me this joint when he’s out is so telling the woman get strategize and they’re all selling narrator we should talk about this scenario as well yes we should it sort of observes that what we all felt was jammy because they’re just signing their motion so it’s to buy some girth is that what you’re saying man that the maker has decided to check on the bystander person

observing motion art appointment efficiently not yet not to as it were take a party or I may use Ken Loach his name in vain here it’s very unfamiliar not to take a kind of partisan view on this or a kind of moral stamp the air stands make a clear moral to have a clear moral position but and not the right track so the filmmaker is someone whose job it is is to make us witness these image yeah and make a scene something like the my immigrant problem described we know that make the questions around immigration see us see them afresh see them there’s something really complex that anyone can anyone anyone can attend up in the scenario it’s not us in them because the people who are looking shameful or also refugee yeah exactly it’s not like there’s a lovely scene at the start where the woman’s a street singer there he went that way you know French collaboration as it were with the security forces but what point does she become the person they’re looking for no I think that’s right and again you know they can almost anyone so there’s no understood you don’t really get any sense of why our central figure is on the run we don’t get any sense of a particular political affiliation use no real identity somebody else’s well it’s interesting this is what’s for the novels written by woman and so there’s a not a savior and as I guess who went to Mexico herself haven’t so there’s something really quite interesting and she was a member of she was closely affiliated with a common but she’s much more the figure of some writer who’s committed suicide than the central figures the bystander then becomes the bloke in there this is also a bit of a reveal this is narrated figure B then it’s revealed at the end to being a waiter and I use the words waiter deliberately there yeah I was working German that johan but the waiter is one of the kings actually on the other side of the bar so we’re all in the same space and the wait was obviously someone who was economically bound into a certain structure what he’s reliant on the refugees coming in and eating his food to keep him in a job that was a really intimately our lefty liberal positions we recognize that we are we have some shame of being bystanders but these bystanders are also people who are caught up in this history in this mess they haven’t escaped they’re not free they’re in the same car yeah they’re next this might just be a silly nerdy thing I don’t know heard significant news but I noticed at one point in the cafe their peak serve the day was for me a melon well no but everything know that the meson say yes there’s also a nod towards novel in terms of when outside the flat or the apartment waitress and his mother okay there’s a thing that says boulevards Boulevard it’s the housing estate or what we call the project whatever does tremendum afraid for those of us who are they there’s incredible attention to detail there you can’t go wrong with a petal comb you can dig away at the lease of centers you wanna and it’s always a problem because again it’s is tickling our tummies as it were he’s giving us a little a cinephile a bit of fun you know you’re noticing references and especially with an adaptation you know a lot of people say oh well the film adaptations very much stuff you know guess I’ve had patient is actually a really important thing here because in a sense Petzl is working with a novel which already exists all this stuff in the film about the stories already told it’s all fatalistic in a sense he’s cause he can’t get away from the fact as this story’s already been written and he’s kind of hamstrung that’s what I have not least there are certain Bank trees he can’t escape and then to come back to your point in a racer it’s really annoying when the narrator you’re not fine but the rate the first company thinks hold on is this gonna destroy the tone

absolutely I so then how reliable is what you’re seeing at any point before he feels it’s all in German yeah the narrator is in German which again is also very interesting because that would imply that the narrator behind the bomb a refugee and therefore also to pay attention because where they speaking French and the parts were resolved and the speaker already speaking German well that’s one of the things I have a lot of fun in investing in looking at this well if you really want to think when you’re just concentrating or making subtitles yeah it can replace a better track I mean I know the same in German contain their sound some of them obviously either said the German yeah without great I mean the film is I think totally aware of what it’s doing and who speaking war and I mean there’s probably something to do with accents as well cuz I’ll send to a figure with the speech impediment compared to the cut-glass German love the women or the dogs yeah there’s all sorts of potentials there I think which are embedded in the language you know these points you begin to think ah what time zone is this anyway so when the go is going on about Borussia Dortmund oh we have and all these bits of German he’s learn now how does he listen to the radio yeah I mean these days you’d say it was a Champions League in but then maybe from his father yes imagine you know that’s also another reference to a really terrible sorry there’s a really terrible film called the miracle of bound okay never watch it anyone please there’s maybe thousands into and it remembers Germany West Germany winning the World Cup 1954 and it’s about farther in a song relation and the son’s obsessed with football yeah you know Martha Maria Bonneville radio yeah donut you’ve done it give up cuz I was thinking you’re back oh that is so right the football pitch on the radio he’s just reworked so other things you noticed because George should what you sing cuz I yeah I’m kind of sitting all this Carlo how can I teach this the lead I’m sure there was something about like in Phoenix about him but also I notice he has this scar on his mice which makes him very distinctive and I mean it’s probably not relevant at all but you wonder what the sessions have been mirroring thank someone in this country and certainly in America that sort of person would be called a character actor is that maybe cleft palate I mean I don’t know I don’t know what I you know don’t know the scar surgery I didn’t think that it was right up to his nose to stop I wonder I don’t know the actor I’m never falling in the pool because it’d be interesting to see if that is that you know because if that’s actually a surgical intervention or some kind of wound it’s actually would actually be really interesting yeah I would agree it’s very what’s interesting is in the earlier pencil films so contemporary abilities what he’s really trying to investigate is the kind of well in Britain we do it by a David Brent in the office but in Germany they do it slightly more seriously he’s investigating the mindset of the middle manager and so all those men are very clean cuts you know smooth and Sinti been working offices and so this is quite a different take one thing you will do when you Swaney watch the other pets or thorns which are I’ll send you a list of recommended ones in order as I mean generally use aleena us okay as his general central female character she looks very much like the woman who was playing with Murray in this book very similar I don’t know the back some than any research on the trances I don’t where there is a reason why Nina hospitals looks very very similar shapes and refined okay you know almost like I wouldn’t wouldn’t say it has a type but there is a kind of in the way that Fassbender – agora unmanageable it was in all that almost all of us benders films so he has a kind of actress he works with and they have a very clear method then as well always a very clear method so it’s interesting in a sense the women would be much stronger in previous have been much more at the center of a lot of previous talk them certainly Phoenix which is about a female of course survivor Barbara which is about woman existing in the GDR again more historical material and then some of the forms which are about middle managers but also account women caught up in the neoliberal economic environment so this was a nice new one I think it tells you probably quite a lot about the 1940s in this insanity has didn’t feel able to place a female character at the center this the hero there’s a lot of calf game here on the poster will say Caprica meets Casablanca category been first published in 26 so some lioness acres will be familiar with Africa and it is yeah diminutive weirding around in massive cues a bed of people again I love the way in which that’s updated and they know it essentially it will look the same it’s just there’s a number ticking over as zeros your number comes up so category is very strong in the saviour’s imagination and obviously in Kafka it’s a man the senator of that Lasker’s camp is writing in 1913 and it’s full of male neuroses but Vegas doesn’t necessarily reflect on that when she’s writing about it’s a problem of existential drama something about their you know poster there across the road that’s not the image she would feel and watch the film that’s not the image of the man you would take away with because he looks like I am here for babies he’s bigger than the fray the venetian blinds maybe well yeah I said there is a lot of my marketing to get people in this room yes I think that I figure that’s the case we can transitory but not moving yes it’s not gonna I mean it’s interesting is it also doesn’t however maybe there is something bottom like about that that’s actually you know in the sense of being what are the motivations for him doing any of the things that he does because we never actually find out he is quite a mystery we can’t even remember what his name is because he very quickly takes yes he’s a writer who was very clear well-known identity today very much he just turns up and people say yes and to also back tomorrow when you could do that Maurice today what did you open a surveillance camera that’s the classic pets or moment as well sorry there was a bit when and actually because this is what we might move what are you saying about the non visibility I say you don’t see me anywhere you know you don’t see us anywhere we’re there with a don’t see us anywhere yeah and there’s a view which is a CCTV camera and it’s ironic and obviously irony is you don’t see us anywhere and yet were being protected you said they were always saying so you know he’s having his cake and eating it he said him in the past but he’s also having a little nod towards kind of surveillance this is what you’ll see elsewhere and in his film sees it’s for rocking rocky there’s a whole load of

yeah exactly that’s a really important way of thinking about if I’m not just as a way of mixing past and present but also to say past is coming back to us but also the things of the future were we’re already there it’s all new yeah and expose us as in this film there is nothing new is just among its the port of Casablanca it’s not a new film it’s based on an already existing stories so there’s nothing new in a ways there’s no claim towards originality and I kind of forgave it on the end and I forgave it because it was as he said as he walked out times a second important because road to nowhere is I don’t know what road to nowhere is about and it’s like one of those things that week or up with a petal petal is our own so it’s my own system you know that’s your teenage song talking heads dnews mid-eighties – no and this is it like somebody who what we would recognize as a it’s very clear depression well it’s again what’s it doing in this film and then what’s its but it’s that a meeting point for years about something coming 84 84 33 are always born 1984 oh well I mean but I think that the problem for me is it’s a song that I hear every day actually eighties it’s it’s still with us but it wasn’t there yet but yet it already was in a way it’s pre-burn enroll it speaks to the anachronism and then of course so you have it’s out of time but it’s also perfectly it’s perfectly timed I knew is gonna do that as well it was a bit though I think you know this song lasts 3 minutes 45 seconds or whatever and no it’s almost like light relief in a way it’s a bit of and then you’ve got change yes – exactly it’s the stone yet that’s why I forgave it in the airless I think he’s actually not playing with nostalgia yeah yeah remember this song from the eighties we were going nowhere then and also and obviously from my work on cars there’s no road since I loved by the way sorry this is distant chassis like them I love the scene in the car whether in taxes he always have to be where we’re pets or what kind of cards yes and normally when petals turn stars it would be someone driving some of the passages st. not looking at each other in kind of two different spaces room very much cars two spaces of separation happens world and here you have founded the romantic climate romantic things for two shots of them really tight in the car on the journey away and of course it’s all unraveling and then it becomes claustrophobic yeah many us together forget I even feel like you can’t breathe yeah cannot space with them it’s such a tight frame yes well I love you right up close them and they’re so close to each other you know they’re almost like one and say they’re so close just think finally they’re going the romantic recipe looks like there’s a release of tension and immediately there’s just a huge spike of tension yes feels almost like if it had stopped at that point it would have been quite fun Hualien or something where it would have sort of done a food documentary – a go through that with him yeah that’s why I’d say about the film is filmmaker as well is that he wants you to I mean again I think he’s learnt this from Fassbender the emotional response this oral response is part of the political experience of cinema that you are actually having an emotional responding that this is it’s not just about you know you have going through something there while you’re watching and working with those emotions and do something with those emotions or happen through them being forced exactly uncomfortable I mean it’s really uncomfortable moment in that car and that’s why I love it because it’s different again I’ve never seen them shoot a car seem like they’re always about people like non-communicative or because if you’re driving a car then you’re focused on repairing a car right the person is in there working there’s the tree and as well which I have a colleague and I’ll not mention who works on all of us memo realization in German cinema and German literature and her interest in that film will be in fantastic you have refugees in well I won’t call them cattle trucks but in non-standard accommodation but that’s non-standard accommodation looks just like an empty office absolutely stunning you know you’re expecting because you’ve known if you think about German history and people transported on trainings and there are obvious kind of resin oozes then those resonances are made clear fantastically at that bit we said what’s the last thing you wrote and he says this monologue about being on the way to hell or already in hell and at that point petrol goes back to the lungs and these are obvious kind of gestures so without showing without telling gestures towards the broader things happening in Europe from this point onwards but I just was really fantastic choice to represent that travelling space as a kind of empty office yeah space let’s see all you see is the plug on the wall you know this is like all the accouterments of a kind of humanoid space

look at the inhumane conditions under which these people are traveling it’s saying look at the inhumane conditions

like these little box space which are our spaces in which we live in time that windows exactly and then you open the window a bit under your court and there’s someone dying they reminded me of my memory might be ever seen Michael Winterbottom film in this world planet Ricky and Steve who’ve been going around in their car one of the things that women Pottermore for us this is not really okay when they go on the trip so there’s first time when the trip was by drying Lake District have you ever seen it I have seen no they should watch it because it’s really interest there’s basically two tosses playing up to their personality their TV personalities but what went what Enfocus they go around and they eat in various places and what woods what and then make sure he does is he shows you know the food is made so Winterbottom is very aware of the fact that there is labor in boring as labor always invisible in all this kind of celebrity Nancy’s consumption when one makes a film about and it’s pseudo-documentary well I mean that’s obviously a very dodgy term I shoot lead over that one more but its handheld cameras and traveling with two kids making their way from a shower so the East Pakistan all the way through to the Channel Tunnel and then under the Channel Tunnel to London following this kid and you know people dying in incarceration lorries as what’s the watch there’s probably like 20 years old there’s something no it just reminds us how this problem and I use the word problem in inverted commas how this situations actively with us for a long long time there’s no part of our accepted normality it reminded me of that and I think if you want to do there are some I mean the novel is absurd because this idea that this woman is running around and seeing the Mexican Consulate and then also somebody who are not being put your husband’s got a funny sweet see penny you’ve got to kind of this is something fairytale like and he’s actually big into his fairy tales as well anything else Paula that struck me I think that’s exhausting enough but no it was a really great experience Walter I think it was it was good to go and watch it because humming was a senemo very much this year that’s what all we though it was just nice to have a reminder that actually I do quite like German cinema whether it’s New York just German or whatever and I haven’t seen any for quite a long time and I’ve always got something out of it every time I have so it was nice to to be reminded of that yeah I don’t get cinema or not because of the nature of the structure of my life and the only things I get to go other things which other people be happy this actually I’m gonna say this this is like in 1987 YouTube brought out the Joshua Tree okay now over the previous three years I’ve got as embarrassing as we’re back in the road to Noah over the previous three years I’ve got completely into the previous albums by this band so when their new album came out it was like a special treat you know you go down and the first time you listen to it it’s really something special and ever since then the Joshua tree comes rattling um I don’t know point onwards a new release for now you – oh snap it now then appears on your bloody iPhone without you want to well I think about Petzl is he’s still making films there’s no drop in quality once these are really that’s pretty rare yeah it’s yeah he’s still still hitting the you’ve been listening to audio visual cultures with me Paula Blair and my very special guest Simon Ward this episode was recorded and edited by polar bear and the music is common ground by air tone licensed under creative commons attribution 3.0 and available for download from ccmixter org if you like the show and find its content useful and interesting please help cover production and distribution costs by donating to paypal dot me forward slash pei Blair or libera Paycom /p e a Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday please do read share and subscribe on your chosen listening platform as this helps others find the show for more information visit audio-visual culture store wordpress calm and follow av cultures on Twitter and Facebook thanks for listening and catch you next time


Audiovisual Cultures episode 44 – Performance Art Against Violence with Elvira Santamaría automated transcript

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hello and welcome to audio visual cultures a podcast that examines aspects of signed an image based cultural production and its implications and wider issues around it I'm Paula Blair and the host and creator and I'm very pleased to be joining you this time from Belfast my home city I've come over for a bit of the visit and I'm recording this short introduction during a while Kerry that rather lovely botanic gardens and so I spell fast I'm very close to the awesome museum for a bite to mates as their assent the Maria Torres she is an international nines performance artist and action artist will hopefully have a really fascinating chat about her work that you'll get a lottery does justice saying it really big thank you to everybody who Spain sharing and liking and engaging on social media it's a really huge help sabi ko CA and thanks as well to our regular supporters on Patreon there aren't many if you put the ones you have are so appreciative of what each day to find out how to support us financially and how to support by sharing and social media stick with us at the end and I'll be back with information about that person I I really hope you enjoy this conversation with my name is Sylvia Santa Maria I'm originally from Mexico I'm a performance artist I now based in Northern Ireland in Belfast I have been based here for almost ten years between Mexico and Belfast I must say that I travel a lot because my work performance our demands on performance there are other terms I think could be maybe just unpack some of the terms that we can apply because C. D. pro sass arts and a range of different approaches like performance installation and action art how do you feel about the sorts of labels on your work what do you feel it is see J. in Spanish I use the term October action out of the action on the generic for dot con to call her performance art durational performance process are osis gesture starting to gestures to combine with photography order performance installation I told you and maybe something else I'd like to label what time do we because that tells me not to classify the No Way or organize only certain ways to perform but it kills me to reflect what time what is doing it for four months what are the elements data for performance art in how are you really working on that for example time would correspond to rational performance if I'm interested in the process how one working with time that is very important to focus on that and also to save people this is about time so I said I'm going to do our process our process peace means that I'm not aiming a resort but to go into a process that people connect with on this end to intervene the proposal of the materials the space and certain principles of I'm going to apply we take us somewhere in a journey in that process for the support and even called a chamber performance our performance that happened in a close call she space give me the chance to deliver some people focused on that without any disturbance maybe I can arrange in a wake up lights to make something special like it maybe in the Asian chambers chambers C. new Grange you know there are places something this special hop in there and we need to place for example that is the need for me to label but these are more of a work of conceptual work in my in performance art or action thank that point if I indication then you work and site but there's a lot of our site as well a lot of site specific where I'm just thinking about it any work you've done in Mexico and I've seen images of and there you may be dating last things like violent or traumatic memory you know I've seen images with the with the channels and your toes and the objects that you'll find in claims and the actual landscaping things what do you feel are the differences are in the different materials with the spaces that you're working with it whether it's between an indoor event or something like that that's an option for me is very important to consider a space or even fifty tuition costs part of the larger war or even an element that will be fine what to do materials as well I used to say that I don't use I don't materials I dialogue with them I really am not using any I don't think I don't know what the space I don't know what the situation and I dealt with the materials that cost to be really a concentration focus there that we can be part of like the famous they we can collaborate with me I if I don't need your vote to eliminate them that is based for example on this the streets and to I have to consider that to be a part of that if a person is only because I'm in the public space and have to deal with that part of the not a problem that comes in the store I would never consider dot on it to come the firm of architects the allies he Katie in the reality social physical political reality in that context tweet anything so we have to be prepared for yeah really stating that we have to be awake in the moment to take on all this and just thinking about you saying collaborating with the winds I think probably one of the first actions I ever saw he was on Helen's bay at the base something with I think it's been liner by the plastic banks are you know when hi I'm making huge string of I'm so there's these beautiful shapes Manson across quite make area spans with the by do you have a name %HESITATION what do you think it is in general when they do these kind of works I don't have any title actually did try to come up to I kind of took the country deal for me but for my company I don't know what will happen in for me the title of puppies a performance or even to conserve told the station customer come up before I'm dealing with the reality that I don't know that because I have experience I could visualize something but you never know and I know that's a performance artist because the prices kind of company and even with very simple things like the plastic white box I said okay this is three may be able to afford in the night twenty two with many many I didn't know how it's going to take a look at that and then I remember rob myself you don't die didn't all these plastic possible when my body was also part of this process that they didn't know that I wanted to do so it's quite late today so the captain and I make might make my notes and reflected sometimes I found poetry that is correct so the title or the name even the concept of the station deeper way state because I have always had previous idea permissible to do have always finding the show lady but afterwards because most of the production I thought some of the Titans it's a nice idea that idea of collaborating with the elements arranging because you're harnessing it but then you being close to asylum in Europe but against yourself or you're just finding a way of visualizing the wind away almost do you find the right to come something your work quite a bit the eighty three two or repetitive actions other things that you need to work through for no for our work in different ways it's interesting for me because I can tell you I've never seen this before yeah sure and we know that always really never the same but I'm not really interested to get this talking please yeah I'm really interested to explore again and again with some of the material the space over my phone number to the station when I once and even if people like it if I didn't like it was not on the way to discover something new or even just to do with the way I want I go again and repeat the idea for me to %HESITATION when I step to the performance in nineteen ninety two tweet I really made a kind of rituals really we kind of believe it really performance of sometimes with my lord I have a Norse there to take my blood tonight make with that tweet hold to watch the storm can I make a transfusion of my block to the store calling eight I think I called that performance no nation for that you can use like fire force anyway the doors I kind of chamber performance but better to only stick with many elements the only element we told that the west not to repeat it to you to repeat but yes many elements Qatar sees not told is a ghost which to cut taxes but to storm performances in the beginning of my practice what really good tactic people cry and I didn't the card to myself like that but that in no way the bees make people enter in a story forty nine number to leave in a story that the narrative that triggered something in them but to also give them a space in a place to deal with emotions sometimes if you don't understand what what I was doing but to hold when you do decide I cry because I went to the store anyway sometimes I do something like a kind of ritual for example the last performance I have children dead weight was smoke portrait I smoke a trust the last of my face seems like I'm burning my face but just the glass enough to turn the glass is covered with the smoke in my face disappear and I'm dressing in black and I'm four and then they do something like drawing back to smoking make a drawing on my face on the smoke inductees in the meantime we be done several times only performance the door was with variations introduction or a DM depending in the place in the culture with the people I am is not the same when I do we do in Latin America Mexico when I it's not the same but I D. N. the big element that people seem to want to I want to bring them burning smoking the glass have you noticed any other differences in hi spectators react between Latin America and Europe or UK or Arden's and terms is it cathartic in fact some of the aspects of it do you find that it's different emotionally or does it depends what kind of thing that you do yes can be very different from one culture to another depends query takes place if I do the street actions usually mural people tried to ignore it because many think Scott people don't want to be part of a joke Suffolk County Kameron I didn't this time Mexico for example in Mexico and Latin America in general people in the small room willing to assist you they didn't have a problem with it usually they are going to do that you'll have a problem he's ordered to ask you what is going on or they take time to stand in front of the jewel in the center of your to be read out what you are doing and it's not the OSC in Dayton literally I mean to run because people want to talk about and I like that because I kind of stopped to talk about when I speak with people I'm not talk about all these performance on to my lord no I'm talking about people what is the concern of people that they have seen in my password in Europe is difficult in Northern Ireland people come to that the two people can be very tough officer Blane performing my life and I'm learning approach in public space but he told the people depict the culture of the city sometimes the point of a person passing by in doing something the artwork could change completely upside down and I have to be prepared to embrace it and continue with that change the issue of contingency is a really quickly one and performance art invites Martin general where you see artists are the most wonderful person in the room or the area whatever it might be because anything could happen and I think most audience members we tend to stand back and think there's a natural barrier that forms probably because we are fairly cherry and spice cinnamon cedar to not step over us wrestles you can comment for everything and you don't know if you're doing something I decide whether somebody's going to come up in a call she or demand to know what you're saying or whatever it's really fascinating to think about cultural differences from place to place where you might be doing that because you're internationally performing all over the world the T. or so I'm very conscious about would do or say to please recent history and help people close to close and sell the motion to vote for the motion on the part there there was a bunch of sometimes the mechanisms of resilience mechanisms in ourselves too close for many things portability so violence aggression and you can see their doctors performance Oct is a notion my purpose or my aim is not to make myself vulnerable even if I become a notable because I go to a public space for example can I do something that is out there your phone calls and that is a provocation wanted or not it's a privilege log to I'm interested to learn it do not force them to be very conscious what do you want to do that what do you want to be at the front of the to be you want to give something to people something for sixty think about something negative %HESITATION just self assessment data always is good to get the results you want and then okay now I want to do this because I want to tell this to the P. ten something like a one people for example something that maybe should have them connected in order to the city that is very strange like in a dream what happened to me and then maybe he does and then one of these options might be part of his life like a dream to work something out something in the deeper or any different levels maybe being forgotten it's quite we need to know very well already tensions in public or in close indoor spaces because I'm not sure really it really is powerful thank another person tweeted I did talk about any exhibitions you've been part of his wild because there are times when you're not necessarily working life for your working life as part of this may be a collective exhibition or something like that and there was one last year and I didn't get to see it unfortunately but you were part of the points arts festival just a few months ago we check to tell us a bit about that yes I was invited by the human don't know debt to be cold Connery with another four artiste female artist to make this exhibition what sort do make exhibitions but he knew that we had some remarks that might be interested to see a site or performances I present to that came out to a follow up persist please that they made enough Salvador so I wouldn't dare to a village that ten seventy one a big muscle car thousand people children women and old people were massacred by the Salvadoran are they wanted to call today resources in the sympathies in a radical way to the curriculum and the massacre many many people and I want to go with them let's see what happens after so many years colorless the please help people cultivate their memory hold the memory of help people leave after that because they're still alive people so when they're in I was speaking with people some crucial for David please I mean all the people living there had lost a member of the committee in documents in my process I want to walk to the healers people describing you know here the girls of the village were taken and raped and then more of the same wasn't very very strong so was so strong and so hopeful that in one moment I asked myself how do he and B. anyway some of the stories that way and then I'm going to focus now in this short sure wait in the gallery these are a settlement on how to approach is there these are proces it was just there looking at that very very rare it was very busy because he's really like which is the quality of the soil but anyway it makes total sense the next step to discover these because people and then a person from the village told me maybe there are many the army said there are shopped on the village no wonder everyone to just the food to be destroyed this call for those so was horrible what's that mean island's western made I used I stopped him I didn't want to do anything on March because I felt overwhelmed by that and then they start just to I don't want to safely but in no way to explore explore the quality physical quality and I reached out the image putting these past conflicts between my toes and then I said this is the steps of memory I told you before that the Titans come after hours many hours I was three days many hours only for that picture and I said and then I published in my website sure so that and he told me I wanted that is the way to continue to be a part of an exhibition for cities even discover any image through a process or sometimes a couple ideas maybe I need one of these buttons it's going to show me something for many times these different articles and then I said this is the picture but anytime there's some conformity that supports in a kind of investigation I mean much of the day delivered a summer photography or even up the deal if you haven't done much the title of the exhibition was I stepped outside and she stepped in again yes it's really fascinating title and then just what's come out of that one image no be say that was an amongst other works by other women artists but that idea so I stepped out and she stepped in again I'm thinking about eight different steps that you're maybe re treading but you're walking amongst where people had been before Ford violent things that happened before it's a really wonderful title that fits you come up with that title was huge because he wanted us to perform in maybe create a dynamic performed together and create a dynamic where we come in we need collaborate by taking the place of the order maybe the materials and three troll %HESITATION Israeli Spanish writer on women's issues including back the action to maybe just Peter over performance all performance in become really gauge collaboration that's why he decided when he told me and they even took photos over his performance would be part of that in nineteen really emerging in a kind of Oregon these elements of the older participants I was really rooting for me and very interesting to develop these dynamics suggested or proposed by him I was wondering is will affect the use of body performance argument that's your primary to really as the body but this one does body come up or do you think it comes up as the same very much in your work or is it parts of the body because I mean what if just talks but there is centered radio on your face my feet are doing and where they are and what they're engaging with you know or and other works is seen you do it you're putting something together with your fans wondered what you thought about that to you how much your body comes in what is the ideal body or their relation to deal with B. the parliament or so given that we are for some performance artist especially jumper from one side to the domino in the sectional very often %HESITATION moment in our lives I'm very concerned about so they go to the polls the naked body or difficult to explore our or expecting any closer to the house in relation with that sexual or gender equality I was never interested in that I was never had this concern the day was considered in depressants Dodge journey for stability to be president the president is more complex the presence of body odour mental faculties believes no also because you'll be late with your your body my word my body is my presence in my presence I want to bring with this residence reveals something can be on a hunt can be to hit could be the whole body I used to dress in black to neutral is a little bit in the meeting but cannot because of the lack of custom made but anyway do not put all the content that I don't want people to focus and then explore and explore the reality of the site I found that my body will perform I wanted to make the I went to benefit to local deadlines I didn't want it to stay which is I mean you know Salvador I felt so so bad yeah and I felt that that was such a kind of sacred line of people to die innocent people and I do want to stay yes Sir six quite when or then I discovered that happens like that usually my performance or could I have a clear idea of what they want to engage my body the way neat but for me it is all right I think are you more likely since the mind body yes not only me but my place to get the police report I don't want to be by did make these two companies in this one this one is the way to be a person that is more than the body but we don't that body I cannot be if it's all right then three thank you bye your collaborations and your work is part of the collective be beyond based in Belfast maybe some of the events connected right manager involvements you on your own in your own right sure and international artists and you perform follow and everywhere else and have collaborated twice many different artists as well but hi does not compare with being part of a member of a collective and how important is being part of a collective and what you do as well four means he's fun tastic that to be beyond axes a subgroup that diversifies at the same time in a collective collaborative group to perform and also in the group that organized and tried to promote performance there's different aspects BBM and sometimes for me so I need to the morning one or another sometimes I need to promote events some ideas that I have in in I collaborate with the committee notice from others to enjoy because I enjoy very much when I perform in this way black market he is one of the few collective soul groups the company's two lasting D. for performance for me but the social collective organized a couple yes to promote but also defended the art because easy to establish performance not only in the art scene and then the country bought in dialogue with the people they're always there something wrong oversees the store being close to someone that is part of existence I think it's part of racing questions through in the particular way to collaborate with them easy to resting spot sometimes I don't find any connection with them there's I don't find that they've really collaborate they repeat and repeat and repeat very much the same there's not really risking then I got part a little bit I am but I support it so we need to collaborate you don't and I'm going to just call me when I find a good idea to collaborate for me there's not collaboration if you choose to be to get them to do the same for me this is not collaboration collaboration is a dialogue in these are the date I debate in action that kind of report I've read really the margins of reflections in poetic that the business section talks about repeating monthly meetings maybe doesn't allow us to read actually now that I don't know if you decide to rescind that we don't have the time to reflect well we have we need to propose into work how to come together in different ways what do we need to debate not only in that to reflect about what we are doing in other teams around the practice I suppose and if it's okay can I ask you about your experience of being in Northern Ireland you know what's that like for you as an artist trying to work here in Maine he said earlier this is been the most challenging probably place for you to perform the check on my lamontagne times you know I've spent a lot of time when I was living here going to the baby on this month place and being quite peripheral to those things you for a while I think it was almost my own spoken job to be the person who media's it's with the general public and people would be up at free excited by what was going on and so I was the person say their artists you know they're just playing there just having playtime attention you can join in a few months you know and you get talking to drug addicts or alcoholics that we're sitting rounded writer square or families on the beach and that sort of stuff I was quite fun for a bit but yes it must be I think because here and it's okay for me to say this you never know when it could tip over into violence there's always a hint of a threat there so is wondering how they how do you feel how does it affect you being here which is in general Northern Ireland has been difficult for me it is a very different culture no the Mexican language I thought that date I mean the list within the but if they told you before this interview I'm kind of dyslexic that when I need to speak another language and my in the last maybe two years it took a little bit with the peak in March in the war so that you see what is the weight what is good for that but it has been very difficult the language especially the information with the performance only in public spaces when I do something in the same sort of space accent but I'm very interested to explore on my own and I can donate the public the space in really enter into a dialogue with people and if I get that that would be a big achievement for me have a big achievement in you for something solo and Kamera so I can buy some witnesses and maybe a camera connecting couple but from far away and let the action speaks for itself and see if I can connect with people of people even if they don't like it I can make a dialogue with them engage with you know they go with them it reflects that this is my name but for me to be a great country another thing that jokes because just on all the general it is very important because it is part of the eighty group or a social construction group but I also like once I realized that I the store to the context six people mostly that I don't know what Nigel cracks I explain joke is is what anyway because the two ladies with identity and identity has to be with the authors and the authors important this could have been made one tree speaking this country like China the weather the weather or see something else I need some but I did maybe you don't like like before but they could see their myself with a good performance artist would make problems in action yeah I mean that I learned how to feed myself please continue to leave the country how to make the best what I have and then I I do like rainy days but that's because time to before and read and write it's waking them up from they're working retain muscle awhile ago I'm just trying to think back because this is probably a few years ago nine a lot of the places you were doing was sold I'm worried in case of mixing it was Brian as well because I I know that what she did when you were lying on the crimes and the soul was on a black sheet or piece of paper or something but ever since I can remember anyone that was an umbrella yeah so that will miss in Germany which has been using salt is immaterial I use for in the same way I have the two all the time to come from the only two time off to work this one in Canada in two thousand seven I made up Rosi's there three days four hours per day with a couple different elements and I'm all those I was when I start to blow Seoul nice way to shape to draw some something you there was a accident on the floor that makes something and just for me to do that in the that day do you have for a while indeed my lord king other concerns about makes you call that like to know about the situation come try G. I put in this short to express something about the former got the idea to draw down makes the kind for a long time and that took me down to Mexico Oaxaca in the contemporary art museum in Oaxaca forty days eight hours per day I started with for mountains he also talked to the middle share and that was great was when the camera filming it was an exhibition at the same time you enter a room one got into two rooms the first thing you find out who she each each time and then continue to the next room and I'm I didn't see that coming this is very high you see only me working there and then when you go to see them up because there's less is more please for forty three days she makes I don't I have to make these these Mexico what kind of what we did tonight any of these G. G. we have a big disadvantage of Mexico and I agreed from that time even the drug dealers that's to do with these two countries so I want to develop that is why I made to September last September the second part of this project and they need to go to the United States to freeze I kind of decided have some chances I hope so I'm not thinking about it yes but also the joker fan of these places and geopolitics as well that must come straight whether even if it's not explicit but it must be an implicit same coming straight weather here and Mexico Canada and the states anywhere else in America or here in Northern Ireland to miss Mary Anne I guess you mean has anything been coming up with by borders and borderlands something that I need to find ways to get into it maybe they don't have to go posted June or in England maybe which the two went to concrete to %HESITATION to finish this idea these three countries and I have to be very interesting responses from both pieces Dr command tonight this call for dialogue and what that common sense not to send people to drive to the east coast to debate I was thinking because it's such a huge confidence he feel like comment that it's so far away from Mexico but really you're quite close neighbors in terms of there's this one country between you but actually that joined together in this he comes in and the miles so what were the responses like in Canada when it was shaping that tomorrow blowing it up by blowing it's not like your pain and try to make the proportion you know when you start to having office space to shape also United States in a little bit of Mexico but the main west kind of many people most interested in the meaning of what and I think it was interesting for them because it was you know he said the first question first question that salt mine but so many people was thinking what is the meaning of this concern you know thinking to talk them through their superstitions to I'm leaving meaning so we just have to perform that Mexico they all it does I think people that think that they don't believe in such things I would like what they want to like themselves to call them to make sure we have connected with the means we learn the number five our own and and then people just have to be concerned two courses also with salt but then there's other stores that I come to you short for example was used by the Romans cartage rebuilt I guess the Roman Empire in the Roman Empire defeated them they went to college and they must occur to people and they I didn't always short field landing fields to avoid to grow anything in many many years really but not to the concept that thank you to the store the people there all the all the people that were on but what's an effect on the and I thought it was the leading lady if your economy politics kind of countries in the country the launch of the countries in the last week yes yes that I could see the doctor to see these these economic twenty not to start Mexico to form in the crisis finish I called now with the new government talk to the call to solve many problems posted Oct the staff this is huge the problem is too big too big to be sold in six months but yeah I pointed I mean the legacies of colonialism on where another anywhere say that country if something is taken away from them your crafts or something and generations go by and the countries that originated thought to them saying Friday that love them and pay the people dying and don't align migration well actually it was your ancestors did it to them in the first place that's why all these problems arose and there's no then culpability there's no responsibility so maybe it's reminding people of that as well at school are white people and sensors because kind of problems in the heart we need to go to history memories we need to reflect what happened before they call me many of the economy they're not interested in politics all right right eight the right side of the duties individual concerns do you it is good to based on the biography we dialed the number you'll receive an introspective but I don't know if you ask me in my right he's really optimizing industry making more individualistic society one thing about this and last year or two years ago goodness it wasn't twenty seventeen in public you propose dot just a simple soon but that project to tell some fourteen and then I couldn't be here but the development assistant position and I think it was great we had the chance to see officials about performing in in what he but for many people we had some potential ideas ideals we are doing in the for example just before about speaking with people was watching outside yeah I think otherwise and we're really not committed to dialogue with people I think the schools these about these and other issues in from the west wind the only thing that the top very few people that is my only the rest was well organized and we need to continue that dialogue I have very fond memories of the site just happens to be in Belfast the way that it was happening and attended it huge monthly meeting that coincided with it people around that was not just the Vegas that file faster Northern Ireland ever seen but it may have been the biggest collective's performance action ten year effort because there were so many people there I scrambled around in chalk on thurs is right on the grind what people were doing in the you know so that was amazing but also what made it ready for me was that there was also this was an custom size square and both fast and I think it was said by gang or remote but I can clover something had also made that their meeting point at the same time for Hugh charting they were having so these chi quite massive sayings descended on this on the square in the city centre at the same time and we're perplexed by each other and it was incredible it was just something amazing and so the idea coming back operating with whatever syringae they couldn't help you find the same space I have to just exist side by side for but to truly do you try to go by we occupy we didn't give them much space to their he had to leave but anyway that was the potential for a please take therefore may be called for commenting laughing and all that one was okay not to any conflict there but didn't get it was fun moment that will keep me busy I the people to to come together usually he's here when a person decides to join or even the twenty five it was a bit difficult but I wrote feel free to join and talk in the growing nobody nobody second no because I had decided to be silent but it just right I was just describing everything that was not nice is right and she keeps saying you know I don't know what Chris still staying or Sandra striking a plan to really you know stuff like that just trying to make a pass on the insulation it was overwhelming how many people it was incredible more people in the state just to see what company it was classified it was quite remember it was unseasonably warm April day and there was I remember a woman sunbathing and she was there the whole time and she was still there when she made my cleaned up and she was still there two hours later when I went for the ball set so there were people he hung around and asked what was going on and some of the side of the side and just tried to explain it but hi could you explain welcome I think just curiosity and I can not coming from a place of either failing or demanding stress but just what's going on here all these people and when you explain to them what was happening this song okay well I'm here so this is what's happening then so it was kind of accepting expose it was a kind of critical mass that the depressed people to say okay there's a movement and Sir anything you would like to talk quickly detected Silas suburbia but something you're going to be working on %HESITATION ideas she got fifteen years working now in the project that calls for machines I plan to keep workshops which I call laboratories for people to they do reflect how he sees many things hello I'm not sure my gesture practice discipline whatever you want to do my instructor might help if you need an accountant or some kind the two point three wait to see yourself more positively when you achieve something in action in this position because I'm going to do it in Mexico I'm really committed to going to laboratories shops in different communities just trying to help this regarding the violence hi top in his company and his company HM my practice and also in the middle of some process that some patients to perform with black market it is still on in other exhortations to perform so is the best place to keep up to date with what you're doing with that P. on your website to publish some information on the place some place to perform and what is coming and I wanted to talk more of it although this is a project that I'm organizing with brand partners in this part of the IBM project this year in these human this process a performance artist I'd work is going to happen the week of the international women's day I proposed this project to be beyond the question all the members of the emergency more than seventy two hours and then we don't have something to just to focus and see what is the practice of mobile for most artistes in addressing the issues to the school so all that said that that week the technician and the second part would come may for twelve that's a nice thing often been talking for over an hour so thank you so much reading really wonderful thing the audio visual cultures with me call up there and my special guest appearance on the media this episode was recorded and Belfast and edited by all of their music keeping hearing aids the common grind by air shown basis under a creative Commons attribution three point zero and Stein noted both from CC mixer dot org if you are in doing what we're doing and you find it useful and interesting and you want to help us keep making more and 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