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Welcome to episode eighteen of audiovisual cultures, the podcast exploring sound and image cultures. I'm your host Paula Blair. this week I'm delighted to be joined by Kristie Smith who treated me to an afternoon with the spice girls. we discuss their 1997 film Spiceworld then they fade and issues a rinds the industrial machines of popular cultural production. thanks to listeners, pledgers and those who've been sharing us on social media. for now, enjoy the discussion date with a very special guest Kristie Smith. Kristie Smith, would you like to introduce yourself or would you like me to ask yourself embarrassing things about you? right well Kristie is a former student of mine from another life ago and does not have proper grown up long before I'm a preferred group but you might contest this today because of what we're about to walk daily leaf matter because well we follow each other on Twitter and we've still got a great found them around certain things I'm reading it came back to Florida a lot of things I like what I like what I like what I like so anybody can day today we're going to explore one of those things that you like very much and that's something that I have not seen before but was very surrounded by this culture when I was a young small parks about twenty years ago would you like to tell the people what we're going to watch absolutely classic the sentencing cannot stay exactly an electoral master class if the spice girls the movie twice well the movie depending on which could be %HESITATION and that came out in nineteen eighty eight I think why are ye and to this phone what do you think it is a fight at that because I'm I'm coming into a plane I know my experiences from I mean I got swept up in the spice girls a little bit when the first night I remember I think I must've been about eleven or twelve from wannabe just changed everything there's this cultural explosion happened around these five girls and go to my classmates were huge and so am I got a bit bored after works of wasn't rated out and pop music was more into rock music and stuff but when you hear some of the songs even night you can't really have gotten swept off and you know so I come in from a very open mind so when I asked why he and us I'm not interrogating you know firsthand what wrong with your it's a very genuine class so that what's your experience because you're much younger than me and what's your experience of coming to all of this when I think about films I like I always go back to things I walked in I was younger because the things I could walk over and over again and we were talking the other day about how you would have your TV VHS combo for you just to watch the same things over and over again what you do when you're a bad rating so yes my social mobile job over again and when I went back to it is middle of what %HESITATION actually I think there's something in the specially if you thinking about film theory and how it's all about the director and how it usually so he usually he's in control of everything caused by spills where a cultural product before that yeah they're very expensive they come with a lot of star power so it's just really interesting to see how the thought of district the idea of film and how it shows up in the film itself yeah I think there's a lot to be said about a celebrity and social mobility and finding your celebrity and not because these guys came from nothing and Belfast south Surrey the growth and then hot they smash it may fade with loose Kamil myself I can't even remember who I was and I know Richie grounds and that although not come if the bagel yeah it's useless so I think that'll be something to get into the after the scene it just sort of be nice to set up a better contact before the band was so huge when I was a kid it's actually been thinking about the spice girls can make that you mentioned %HESITATION we're on our way here by eight to twenty five %HESITATION she read this %HESITATION has just passed and there was a little bit of post bike path and I was thinking about amazing because back in October I went to the gig by comedian called Sophie he can always just kind of maybe this is Jane this is only an inch at when she was young she was really obsessed with life flight from one of a competition to go and meet them in them and then once you start paying anything that pertained had impeccable English and math a lot of Francisco is often I went to one of our cakes and she was actually penned spice girls songs and the sort of warm up when everybody's taken their shades I'm waiting for I'm sorry so this is a brilliant uses this music because it was and it was mostly women in the crowd and she sat staunch feminist and she's also been so I've spoken to you she's had whole comedy shows but her love of Westlife and the fanfiction she's through the band and so I've actually been thinking about this stuff that I went to an all girls high school girls in my class who were all obsessed with Westlife and the other girls not seeing girls with other girls in my class obsessed with the spice girls Nick can Bach night as somebody and are heading towards mid thirties and they came back on that time and that aspect of kind also found you and I've been sort of providing a little bit that will probably mostly me ready because what can he say about it but a girl okay you can not along you can imagine but actually bringing him up because he's a bit older than us again and he was a student when the spice girls got fake and he told me coming because I actually we should be doing this with him because he knows more about it and then I did it because he was a massive fan yes and that space is back to a speaker in the spice girls mop of everywhere they feign perform that's not human migration followed by this girl my great yeah yeah he said like it was a big thing and all the student unions for planned spice girls online and have them fame to club nights often use reading the club and then things so it was a really fun I suppose kind of catchy thing but it was current on that basis cultural explosion and it was a very female independence and all that kind of stuff so he got really into it he actually said he only remembers going to see the film in the cinema and then he had a VHS copy a city board I do it all the time enough to and then they sort of photographers and stuff girl from them I think as Simpson to Prada okay here's well because the thing it's nice take classes and more seriously yeah and then we can maybe think it really benefit the Beatles and mail mania and stuff because I was mostly teenage girls is planned for you to think of like Alexis well he does Betty Schaeffer any of us to abandon his career when he came back from Vietnam right it would have to be it was one of those slated protection here I've since read up on this and now this Presley was drafted in nineteen fifty eight and served two years in West Germany yeah certainly %HESITATION but yeah he did go off to like my skills Beales outlets cable so apart from Correa's and is usually female fans how about just sort of thinking about it now I can't think of somebody who's more aimed towards boys will towards men it's really hot spots of crossover Correa maybe we'll think of one during the film's not put up a completely new thing that's so good stuff to set us up come in and what do you think I really enjoyed a great class it's really funny I was sort of a paired for it to be so bad it would be funny and it was a bit like the the start but I thought the comedy really picked up yeah some of the jokes still play yeah retiree comedy right now and any phone is only as good as it's great so I thought it worked read it's really good fun I thought the songs were incorporated ready while there is just a glorious come on queerness so the whole thing yeah I hear you say that most of the women that night because it's very much like if you've ever watched clear spoke of Egypt and if you do not have kids in the nineteen so the big thing and you like literally say that nothing you can see why people still check they yeah definite really celebrate or any %HESITATION just expressing yourself and the most flamboyant device that was spread it's hard to keep up the cameos we should have made it a drinking game today may have a a but then and the Arab professional who refuse on cake and says I really liked that one if that metafiction lands on %HESITATION here because all the way through a post shared with a lot of things there's a lot to get three actually but there's one of the socks or aces the movie producers I want to make this film and they keep pitching these ideas that are ready our nomination the sale is really funny and circuits that are like Charlie's angels rests and stuff like that and references a lot of genres yeah but yeah right at the end H. actually describe what actually happened and then the phone saying that happens really very funny stone ready while I thought yeah makes a lot of references to a lot of different genres within film but it makes a reference to a lot of different kinds of media yeah you've got the main body is Kevin must face yes use the edit and sort of Max Clifford yeah %HESITATION making the headlines kind of closest Mexico was a publicist was not and then at him mixed with Robert Murdoch yeah tension between the tune played of course by for during a very different kind of thing because I was gonna drop absolutely because I think there's a lot of drive and the phone even if it's the girls when the girls dress up with each other it's quite like dry and dry goals and that kind of thing so sink in it's a sort of inverse of what he usually dating and you have very different track for him don't let me dominate a defer to you because she know more by no less and you've got more intricate knowledge I really enjoyed office scared I'm glad you enjoyed it I think it first it was a bit like a group be made for TV may face I can see that I think the directed mostly dates TV before that yes I think I have the option to have a lot of big names was overcome and and they went for somebody who would directly Cobb top full is how yes I thought they were known for TV this is Bob spares yeah yeah so it felt very I thought at first it felt like that was a bit clunky and robotic gaps but its face up against tight by the end of last week on the second time in six going to the camera work rather than being called faith becomes very funny I think there's some really good hockey sense on the part of all of the spice girls Victoria Adams and she was banned yeah back of night was really care I'm a lot of comments made Roger Moore was sublime %HESITATION there's just so many lessening those really nice number Bob Hoskins very short lived very far away those are two guys will miss a lot %HESITATION Jennifer Saunders of because if she thought in a way through knowing about fashion yes Jerry how you L. keeps giving them these little nuggets of information that she's picked up because she reads does she read close shave disagrees because the fifteen easier reading she's reading the sun and then when they have a big fight with confit the Oklahoma their respective houses she is a good case for the food this find out anything you would recognize that just lying green and pink so I don't know if you've got you know like in the great customers like you cook the books open okay I feel like the someone to use all of judge Jerry a little bit because he's currently Spock yeah that are really hate one often wonder by Monterey and then Victoria thanks all have a go at trying to find smart yes the fashion do you know anything about Monterey %HESITATION I'm wearing a pair right now Jennifer Saunders and channeling Andy is not from absolutely fabulous afternoon you know that show I don't know if I'm coming this is the name of his character puts its a double barrelled name EastEnders posh English documentarians yeah pias cook but since my addictive reading off a credit sequence where Hayes of themselves going I suppose we can do to polishing this out to have to wear this task to his but I loved his voice in it because years ago he said a voice and an auto coursing cold called the devil and bald and he played the devil and that was the voice he ate so it was really making me think a lot of combat yeah it was canceled after one series in there for me it's I think thirteen episodes of us by phone at five and I love him and I loved it so ridiculous yeah I like him because obviously with the documentary style of things is just blocking his way through it like nothing he says makes any sense yeah but I can get a wide angle on their right after which the council of condom cellphone screens I thought as the perfect and he's talking about how the girls called make connections meet customer review like a motion no question about what it's like to live in the spice phenomena and then it's just you have time for boys is black in its way through he's not doing any of the hardware if you've got those two guys with them yeah so it makes a mockery of a lot of things there's quite a lot of common tree up by the industry the machine of stardom the machine of celebrity and that it's not about the saying and then it's not a boy the fund's issue here right now if they and friendship and how you keep up with your non famous friends when you've become so their specs are you coming from north and then you're on the big stars they have their own narrative with their friend Nikolai he's happily pregnant with somebody at the party it's just trying to get into the circle yeah I was asking her are you part of this world too so %HESITATION no but I mean she's actually the character is like best friends with the finances been with them since the beginning because he's here in the flashback but when you see the present date always Capri it still be like bicycles on the balcony and they've got that box to where she is being photographed and she's just by the craft services table eating grapes and being hit on by a very creepy man yeah while nine months pregnant and then when they decide to take a nine month pregnant woman to a night club she's sort of on the balcony watching them dancing in joy themselves down to their own music singing along to that would later I mean obviously it's contrived but it serves a purpose he it gives them not talking point a rind friendship and loyalty and being normal and trying to remember the race says working class girls as being her I remember making that case to city years ago and they're saying that for years when they're trying to make it they were just living off beans on toast we have maybe one or two meals a day and then %HESITATION stars and and Peyton everything that has and to try to make it and then it became this explosion there's a lot of Todd foreshadowing I will come for them and real life with talk about the band splitting off even he's gonna have babies you'll be on M. chose talking about how you used to be famous %HESITATION I think generally the character I give some of the most capped order followed a lot analysts and she's the one who did strictly come dancing there's lots to talk about it either the first live television performance ascension or one bag of any of it what do you mean everything's idea and I can always find other songs and almost all their dialogues ADR point obviously it's not quite enough to the left not the stuff that she the point thank you for any anybody who went to see them live I wish apple I haven't ever probably well despondent by the rules the the phone was made ninety seven it was probably on general release mostly in ninety eight yeah okay so I would have been up by thirteen and you reduce pain %HESITATION you tiny bear right on our four four five four five how did this come in near light I don't when I looked up to find out when it was me I was like what like I remember it being a big thing when I'm old enough to remember it at least nine of ten right but it is a heather it was rocked in had it within twelve months so it's quite a quick thing they did before the second album so like for example make a film which goes with the second album VHS is always the math but don't know how it came across that and I've done quite well to avoid it this was a never came as for that never went away I wasn't interested enough to but I tend to serve me I found it was thirty think of age twelve for being twenty maybe twenty one years old now I think so there's such a trend tonight for the music goes the west end musicals second mamma mia we will rocky from China makes the members one there's such %HESITATION maids for the live shows of a film like that this could be the issue there is something check everything you know it's more similar to spice world than most because those are right now right the songs but but the actual time for the holidays night as bill something that yeah harks back certainly to bagel mania %HESITATION all the paraphernalia right ma'am I'm not of course really fed off the Britishness that management service group I think the bagels for all their proposed landmark may with the spice girls you go really nice tension between the northerners in the south now the baby is from they will now face from that po dear there seem to be from this ice when they do the interview with Johnson also speaking different languages so I think the fans Mel B. and say something about the north and as John Ross is like I've got no idea what you just said you know I'd love to make a move as the driver hi you're waiting for each division no it's it's just talk class plans I am a sucker for palm saying that you love the game on a coupon from Lisle it's very placing and they go a fee and there was some other stars I really like to this is a big build up so the toilets in the block and he's the driver and Richard a ground as the manager saying came out to fix that I will do anything for them %HESITATION huh but I won't do that %HESITATION yes imaginary I never start anything yeah show me the pigeons up because no no start the provision for loan I hear died kicked by means feed on the pay bill full every time you see him there well there there's anything and he's got these this sort of overlords yeah he's like the producer of the owner of the management company he started with a cop which is obviously a reference to like bad guys and James Bond bond villains not become the white bunny rabbit and then a T. cook paying and then the second time in the pay you know that my and then you kind of got the girls out but I'll go for it because they're all of course women but they're the spice girls so I think it's fair to refer to them as girls in this context there will furnace and their self determination is pitted against all these man yeah controlling them so there's a lot going on there today it seems like some of the most supernatural and the power they have so if we take but you look for example at the point where if it's talking about he says I'm going to call them and I'm gonna say that the girls meet the morning off and the phone rings me picks it up and he says they can't have the morning awfully he's preempted bodies almost psychic and his knowledge of what's going on and that's it he always talks and metaphors that are always on the move be it as well it's actually quite poetic Jones yeah it is like one of them is just that you just toss phone booth the headless chicken never gets anywhere and off the coast of jokers while that figure to ground character always takes it seriously seems like chicken and if I do chicken so did you Kevin Mitnick says let them Barry Humphries character the dodgy edit it's a great manager Maxine whether in his office is getting really excited about bringing the price goes down you can see like coming from a mountain and as a cook to the guys talking to them the cook back to him I think that's purely because they needed to take more circumspect more out just so melodramatic and then it gets to the point where the thunder and lightning and it stopped topically rating in the office yeah for that guy yeah it's nice because you feel like it takes you a while because when it first starts on that feels very heavy handed with them when you're settled in and you're like this is a completely calm tone and this is come off the back well I'm just thinking of the time I mean maybe it's a bit before actually but the Austin powers films move because those thinking there's a similar level of yeah just to make sure the car kind of British yeah yeah and tips over into that and because that's the world of the film it makes sense and it's okay and you are sort of settled into that point on they should have the obviousness of the metaphors the dramatic ironies and the families and I because I didn't see it because sometimes I think there may be sitting at and it's talking dying to their audience but I felt that this was speaking to an audience here actually get it and get what their day and get the ironies that are hot man so it can work on both levels if so it takes it and it doesn't really spell things out like a link where you just want a twist on the books I was like oh that was a voice over about five billion they said they believe nothing this film seven times the reference but the showers highs that can affect the toilets but then it transpires the toilets are broken both both of courses like the TARDIS it's on the inside and the size but you just roll with it okay the film set this up and I'm gonna go ahead and when you want to live in not books even temporarily lifted this stuff but it's somewhere in the Isle of Wight thing they put on display really yes it will have to go there okay series not that I didn't have a reason before so the whole the picture case and charge and not tight and my fax machine of it's not just the music industry because it's the starshine is filing so earlier and the same thing and there's always things intention because then you've got chills Holland is and they're pretending to be enjoyed himself as the director of the live show there's an alcohol okay saying is get no live music and they're singing right so no matter what it is thirties man controlling them and they're fighting against it and they end up saying screw you could've heard where all of us be in France is more important than working ourselves to death scene for the S. and they go off with makayla and she goes into labor and she's a girl baby as well as a girl be obey that looks quite old %HESITATION the Google tumblr not at all ages I don't know her but the database hold enough of babies well enough as I was and what's the show %HESITATION yeah the wheeled over life is nothing but a date I thought some of the answers really for me and this usually the server and matching name something happening yeah you get lots of service you get a flashback to when they first saw it you got a dream sequence or flash forward to when they're all mothers and absolutely hate that music can hate the children a little bit is an alternate reality where at and there is and and I think Christie novel and she gets away with being the killer because she is such a cute little smile the spice force five it was Charlie's angels but it was a mixture of any of those kind of fast finishing because they use the music from mission impossible because they did all five of them have their own introduction the music from a different you know targeting just came last night mission impossibles and there there's a few of those other ones this Wonder Woman yeah yeah durian is just Victoria others it was like a soap opera thank you Rene Sanders our nation's straight you know those extras to the side of the room there and it's wild it's very cramped the role of one living group in a couple of close calls and things it is quite working class that they're very much reminds you of what life is like it like that it would be nice if the blinds down they've got authority with a fucking little Washington both of us it makes the room even smaller so tiny spice girls could and it costs it said in the background I only see my kids once overtaking skittles they really felt on the stereotypes and actually have a discussion about their stereo type phone point man to lose forty isn't on the baby on a treadmill or exercise bike all the time and not always talking about football yeah but of course that's what she does and that having a little time term affecting baby spice I was reading violence for the rest of it that the dream sequence where she's the killer and Hugh Laurie as Paro and then there's a point at the end of the film when they've come full my hair and she's asking the right at I really like to hit somebody at some point how to be Victoria if that happens to be delivery yes victory goes %HESITATION making and dealing with that I just talked to her in the face I actually thought there were times when the prompter between them actually tipped over into being actually bath Maine they are actually bad horrible especially to generate what she lacked HM I think there's a lot of attention there and I think it was coming through in the film are they when she gives a one line is so she's like talking bout in the ring our system with the scene after that they'll always cooked just voiced I spoke to Mel C. and just be rolling our eyes still with her I don't know if it's because she's the only one that can roll our eyes or they try to say something yeah if she's dispassionately fat with it there was a whole discussion about a star signs yeah that's a good thing there was a sort of maybe the intellectualism going on there okay just because Jerry someone he came say read stuff yeah she's telling them these facts and then there are always a bit and Mattheus a sporty one rolling their eyes actually feeding into a stereotype of somebody who's working class regional and and a sports being anti intellectual phone and Larry you know those women activists something else going on there that tape because I always feel like I'm I do think I guess a bit of a hard go with less I think that send him to the way the lamb that's the same with the bookstore they decorate rocks around day what she's doing what she's saying and how she said that maybe it's to do with how she's always pushing the girl power thing because of the point where when the addresses each other yeah Melby dresses hair and she says hello blog %HESITATION power feminism you know what I mean yeah eight thousand yeah yeah that was fast enough that with the old fashioned way each other so there's that and then sporty spice Mel C. as in posh worry she looks like a mom and drive she looks really heavy set wearing a tiny dress and massive hails and she looks like he stomped around the Big mind like I love dry cleans but it looked like somebody who usually coded in a masculine way and it did look like that like in the masculine nice posh spice as opposed to the very feminized posh spice ABC I think every school is the one who gets to escape from his designated role the least because everything she says is to do with four you can't just talking about giving but if you're saying it's like passing a football when she sees the baby that were like oh it's so cute and he's like well I hope with support my football team like they went through the script and I went oh she's got a line not to do with football commit can we change that yeah yeah put something in the pool to when they go online for like six hours and they're all talking to the dump says she's giving him tips about how his football team can improve yeah it's a lot of we can set up for you and when you see them all in their own respective homes Jerry has a home baby has the home LP has a home and then she is like she lives and I'm like the underground of Crystal Palace life I'm out for it this is spoken yeah full and she said like the changing ground force like pain it's a man I'm not a football Grantland bless the whole house pretends to be here not that okay so baby spice is scary spice yeah but she's on a bit of fun and then is ginger ginger sporty sporty is posh on posh is baby it was fascinating actually seeing them beach other yeah this is like a whole different level of performance if if ever you can see them being each other arms kind of what they think about each other still comes out a little bit what they think of the characters it does because you know right this is fiction on a totally collapses fact and fiction but yes you know it's kind of surreal girl bond and they really are these characters but they're kind of character of the character that they're also behind is a great person he engine there is affection being painted on the S. and S. a fictional Falmouth by real stuff that could be happening but you get the sense that when they're insulting each other date a week that may not and you think well that's not really not long before they actually do you'll break up and hit each other but it's so intense as well the whole the film goes into that tape the intensity of this level of stardom and I half its happened everybody won the PCP and means that bet where it's ready so late you know when they have to stop the boss because the toilets are broken they all need to pay and they have to go to the woods and they taste here hands for a closer who they are who they are I still get tickets to your show summary but even that it's about and they're asking for autographs or asking for cases the sense of entitlement over parts of these women yes I am I think you see even before the case which they do ask for you to the alien going to grab one of them says no handshake that was a bit did you go for a second I thought so yeah I just saw the Kurdish no consensus that that kind of goes back to the whole tabloid thing because right at the beginning of today me Elton John they go out with cliff it in because it comes up a camera and he says something like no up skate shop something I thought was interesting please don't take photos of these weapons right is it that in the background all is even if it is quite a deal centered film for them being the main characters they're all men everywhere all male coded aliens fjord and its always underlying threat which I mean it's more or less the kids film so it doesn't build up a great deal but it's still that and you can pick up on it if you're watching another yeah I thought I thought it was coming out of her bad this sort of sense of entitlement so for every piece of them you know and then you've got the tension between the height fits there wherein the very revealing they're showing off a lot of their bodies and stuff was the content of their songs you know a lot of ifs invites female sexuality but it's also about it like I don't want to be in a relationship where you don't have sex he I just wanna be your friend kind of lyrics as well and a lot of options are but friendship and a boy will specially spice up your life that's about everybody have a good time yeah and I speak to each other it's not a fight that kind of thing it's very well Stalin's again yeah it does it is B. axes to each other kind of five at the end and of course it starts with too much which is a song which is trying to tell a guy to buckle because you're not reading it out and tell them and you just want to be faith so you got the sense that we do this for us because it was sort of thinking of it as well if it is found that sort of animated post feminism it's not something no huge amount of but because I just feel like they're still such a need for family or not there yet and post feminism is this little bubble of very privileged women who didn't have to think so much by this kind of thing where they were just like all of us here all week long I've also harm its voice the invoice and actually there's a lot of harm and if you're not as privileged as some people in fact she more than others so it's for me post feminism as its not really but I kind of always thought that they were a bit like that right to say girls it enough and Silas and tweaking Marley's close and it doesn't have to be sexual license we don't want to baby just like wearing these tiny dresses anyway it is quite compensate drive and that vision with emphasis on the tapes but it's not for sexual purposes he adds right these connected clothes have been worn for the fun of thought for the fun of backing out on dates for the fun of expressing your style the fun of just celebrating your body I think maybe that's why I asked that negativity towards Jerry combs because Hey still thing is girl power is key that it's Gail and it's not woman to film saying maybe what that saying isn't great but the situation that put in still isn't right so I mean what about feminism you mean it's pretty much post feminism what possible point where when you fight for anything that's just come out of fire which is kind of what girl power is obviously the film came out twenty years ago but I was in prime up yesterday and I saw at least two things with guilt however and on it yeah they were probing made into such up somewhat yeah with young under age girls coping mechanisms thanks for basically no money PMR in ours if you look at hosted article date me in the photography that Richard o'brien it's Richard o'brien yeah when they're in the hospital the bonds as head yeah the point west Hollywood Marie is kind of taken over and says well we just realizes the error of his ways yeah and then he goes on to out there not the editor of the newspaper %HESITATION so it's not that the gills do anything to take on the added directly and it's not like they do anything to change the photographer's mind but the photographers %HESITATION if realizes the error of his ways through the roundabout if any and then goes on to use the skills as the worker to overthrow itself I guess that would be fascinated to know what the five fifteen so noisy but stuff now that they're in their forties and they've gone through so much they've gone through a very adult things and I've had families for foster relationships and all of a under very public screening yeah while even posts vice girls some of the most better at staying out of the limelight than others with the likes of certain movements that have emerged in the past year or so the me too movement more is coming to light I think more because those of us with certain privileges or listening to people a bit more I think the fact that it's a male baby he has the tanks at Jerry's feminism hiatus upset with her today as a black woman when it's black women are more adversely affected by racially focused sexism so it would be interesting to know what they're sending maturity or any more knowledge there or is that because they are normally and instead of so much privilege from their fans and their wealth generated from this machine do they even have to think of it %HESITATION I think I'm the meetings will be getting a touch on because obviously that the come up and that the end is that the end is it because the scandal is what do you call it and that's just so tame compared to what has actually gone on even if you take a box of fish when we watch that we thought it's a mix between him and report made a point of it is currently in prison obviously after the nice a lot of stuff came out about one newspaper and is like his welcome with doing intensive things like hacking to people's phones and things like that if today if somebody was caught in the Q. zero two consenting adult women you can like do you wanna be president exactly it's funny listen watch and read to work under something similar if there's an episode where they accidentally go back in time and they're in Dallas in nineteen sixty three certain date they messed things up a bit they disrupt Lee Harvey Oswald he doesn't kill Kennedy Kennedy continues to be president and candidate is in page for having affairs I think what we're %HESITATION the six but because it's not I mean I don't know what you have to takes too because it's kind of gone a bit beyond with trump so it's the same thing or something it's not res countless anymore Stockley those other of course unfortunate that's because there's a Gary glitter effect that's all there is yes when they go to Milan that was meant to feature a Garda Kamio book about a week before the film came out it came out Boxing Day it's like a big Christmas release it came out the office see if the child molesters but convicted of that scoring in prison good so they had just chop and change that from the film but they have kept in their cover of this song should be markers I don't know if it if it is because in one hand if you like once a cultural product any kind is I thank the loans to the public I feel fine so maybe there's a right to re command something but it just has such a sour taste because of the association my fans dispose it's one more of the many things that my childhood was filled with Jim affects that %HESITATION this Cosby show and all that sort of stuff and your every time you see a name of a male celebrity lately and it is mostly male all the data what have they done are they dead for Hey if they sexually assaulted Iraq all right it's a nice thing skate in ten years liking that person or if you hear the start of a headline that somebody's been accused or convicted of site based on a lot of faith after a long list of I don't even want to look at the last money order because I'm scared of my own things like that Mars a film like this beyond its control really like other rice a fairly safe I don't think anybody no I think there's a right specially for the company as Michael Barr more a little bit over the last year have struggled with that he's kind of like this drill sergeant he's supposed to be their counselor choreography dance instructor and they go to the house in the countryside great chefs is John ranking and it becomes a kind of night time mystery saying our creeping around the high school I was used to reduce cameo it was the only the sounds like when he stepped out of the toilet subject %HESITATION I cannot hear you fifteen every time he steps is really loud it's like hyper Digenis they'll wake up with every step but one of them wakes up from the fever dream about not wearing make up okay so in the film we've got I would say three types of media and three types of men who represent it okay so we've got %HESITATION pias confidence life who is doctor by Alan Cumming who is off to rich and I think it's from thinking Ross and he puts on the soul of a prosperous accent and he's not particularly good at being any faith that he's open to phone with is David Attenborough style introduction and then we have to to Hollywood writers directors which is norm from cheers and mark McKinney and then we have the main body is the editor of the British public newspaper so do you think that Hollywood women in the film %HESITATION that's an accent observation yeah because ultimately they crack it they come up with a lease crock pot ideas on and then they start describing the thing that's actually happening yeah you're saying so yeah I can go ahead %HESITATION maybe Richard E. grant's character Clifford he's going along with it he's got made excited and they're waiting for them to first okay thank the verses are those he says yes to them so yeah I think it's a really Accern observation but the other ones they cite the documentary just continues to fail yeah I mean if you put together all of the shop sweat you're seeing the point of view of the documentaries Cameron that's a terrible phone with some kids swimming in the Thames and then what you got going to hang himself and then themes where that trying to film the spy skills and I talking over it so it's like get the posh Rodney that was from the posh ones like the one that looks like the constantly moving the camera I think the only time when they're successful in filling anything the guy with the %HESITATION Mike that's all we got a good squash that and that's purely because the guy who's minding the documentary is holding up the ocean they called capture the spice feels they can only capture all of the others and of course the newspaper stuff full three to the tabloid media doesn't work right the documentary stuff doesn't record but the Fantastico big money big Hollywood productions I love got back where they describe that false happen to go over London Bridge yes when it's freezing they go oh it's going to be expensive and then you see it happening with level model yeah stop motion under three face off like a toy somebody's flipped over at me as a holy thing on them both Indian flag both yeah I think you're on to something there Hollywoodland supply but I do think twelve continue with your investigation yes please stay think of the first packages with McKinney and norm from cheers that pitching the film which is for each device is caring for an elderly relative no the story is apparently the spice girls all concept of a movie with option by Disney hall of what they picture that the girls were going to be themselves they're going to play characters and one these guys would be like a single mom and one of them would be caring for like an elderly relative but they just go into the stupid idea and when it shut down coconut oil what about if that monkey tennis you know from Alan partridge and that was that comment about Marilyn Monroe yeah I think you saw a bunch of back to how that would did anybody care if my little good act she was in focus yeah and I says well she was also smarter than she looks Martin keeps coming back because in the next seat in the next scene whether having dinner with crawfish mechanics characters change into a Marmon rotation and you just see her ice covering above and below the cameras line of vision so she just kind of peeking out depending on how we shop and then Jerry hello dresses as Marilyn Monroe when they do the photo shoot one to two minutes after they fought an indepth discussion of bite hi everything's about how you live please complaining about that and a lot of group photo shoots even the song at the end of the end credits it's a lot of Hollywood culture yes it's very referential scan like vogue by Madonna or it's just sort of yeah I mean the things name the thing my difficult lady is a vamp but I'm not yeah I got the right one right just because it was fasting because of all the references but there was quite a benefit of by Marilyn Monroe or something like Norwegian have a seven year and she has some like it hot too if you prefer yeah yeah I was pleased with that but they're also talking about a woman of the nineties and I so what's the status on the river cross pollination sore there's this back and forth and history of iconic women so it's like a cultural Lakers between them and the yeah in the past yeah Marilyn Monroe in Maine she's incredibly intelligent woman but was told by the image you know and she felt bad image she with the help of a make up artist designs that image because of who she was in the natural blonde they got the right shade of red for the lapse they designed the ice and the emphasis on things that was really intricately designed to be the ultimate symbol of sexual or they'll come up to active male sexual desire you know the along those lines and she was a pen up she did start as a pen that he actually did some talk less startling soft core porn stuff and she did playboy before she got famous images yeah thanks to a lawsuit but then I can make it pay and her first ever film role as he faces bimbo she had a very small part and Bette Davis it's the one about the %HESITATION aging actress yes all righty yes that's right your memories better than mine all of IT yeah we work together we can come last in a public so that was my first film role to pay this loan Benbow this young actress and that's making five by an aging actress who's being isolated by a younger actress she perfected thought role so while she can get back out of it again she was trying really hard to be set up for a production company she really wanted to do serious acting that was all she ever aspire today she wanted to stop doing the spindles and she just never caught out of it and then of course she has a lot of problems with depression stuff and she suffered greatly with endometriosis only a lot of people have heard about the first persona where she got this reputation of not turning up to sat on time and doing whatever she wanted because she the suspects are but actually she was in severe pain a lot of the time sheet Brady Haas and Roman I think hi her image is still used to find really fascinating and so anybody types into that because again these are five industry generated girl thinkers yeah I know the types of girls that you might be even have the discussion that there's no hint of crossover if she happened to your thirty three things sporty but I'm also interested in other things by but also talk about the sport which of course is the joke and the fellow exactly I think all of the characters they dress up as they are identifiable in terms of pop culture but we see Jackie o's file yeah it's penalty phase and not something Pretoria dresses as her so she's still keeping the pops thing going on the phone and then they dresses Charlie's angels and then M. O. Danny and sandy again it's sporty spice the dresses like Donnie Darko yeah she sent me a try again is that all right great vaccinated with the quick Phoenix I think it I love the way Victoria drive the box is a failure what is the market leader Patrick free speech could face you probably spent hours upon like longer than she was phoning it could very well be that up the body double but I don't know who it would not surprise me if it was ready where her face of the thirty first but it could have an effect model you know there's a slight nuns on the run references Alan knows on the Monday yes they stop in front of the bus and that's what makes them tumbled back into the books and for some reason they're on the roof because those are the rules way to get up there some of the fellow behind the bar in a second and those opposed to think I was going to tell you it's what you expect the line to be and it's just can you please make a double they're talking about it talking about it somebody you become famous ready correctly and then your football yeah go back to normal life oh yes there is the court saying Stephen fry %HESITATION yeah that was another Joan resting and one million serves their fantasy and starts and not cost him the wiring and nothing is the same thing that the wiring when they're discussing it so it's kind of like a shed fantasy or Chad daydream and they talk about having the same dream yeah where they go to perform on stage but they have no heads because they're worried about nothing it was saying and sectarian that says when I had the same during buffalo native ahead but have no make up on that and they'll send us what I mean you have a whole quite big nobody's really going to be able to tell my mother make yet the and the Hollywood story shows up as an aeration see here mark McKinney's character talking his name greater grace %HESITATION gad Greek green something like that Greitens no rating it and he'll stay online in the echo in that dialogue so it is sort of like the film you're watching the film he's pitching but I breaks down in the sea when he says the best time to that all right that looks expected he's like you lied to me because it's trying to strangle of even the Hollywood treatment doesn't really make it yeah kind of break out of that mold and when he pitches the ball mmhm we do we see the ball in the book even judge once characters like no they've been through enough under the rules but it's a really nice call back because in the end credits sequence where it's real life he had vertical month and they're discussing the making of the film and the girls sort of realize always people watching on the M. B. T. in the center of the break the fourth wall and they say oh we know what you think and you're wondering what happened up bomb there's a soft grace Losin really nice use of off screen space to continue to come but it's not just about what you do you say it's often but when you go so it's not like just dialogue it's kind of a touch and go joke but I quite enjoy it it's Richard you got Nissan is desolate and he pulls out the news from but off screen space I just have that ready to go the Cisco I've been to the documentarians forties going today because I think they're not going to turn up to the Albert hall he said you're gonna get the bond going gonna do this we're gonna dance and I'll come right from backstage it's that a higher money so I spoke with nice changes his mind Alan Cumming face it just pulls me like that would be the perfect ending at my heart because he wanted to be a reach of melodic and he's forcing it to be something that small yeah and again you got the media day and not on the whole other thing in their town it bring them dying they're trying to make stuff after so many like them you're like no you can make so much more Monday after successful for longer share date but then that system made of everything bad about scandal there's a point at the beginning where he is talking about I want to see their very souls and the come I make the joke or is like we're going to need a much longer because you just have this discussion the five of them during the rehearsal in their old bomb journal each other being quite name again stuff about what they look like either drastically making fun of each other so if you're just getting this superficial view from the top point and again the balcony comes into it because it's a double decker books it's taught us like you said it's massive cliff its offices above them so you can always look down and watch over them a little bit and then a lot of P. as a shock to Ghana from balconies and then it goes away separated from them as well it does vary which one of them is raised above by the way that capped a pop just the physical representation of the fact that things keeping them apart from being with a friend thank you senator died when and the opening credits its third star names I found that a male female say yeah this electric toria I had like possibly yeah rather than a credit so it's in the end the end credits reset it says the spice girls are you gonna so names on my face over a music video and then talks to them being on top of the post office became riddled with the same sort of problems yeah because the fact of the presenters were sign of water but it didn't pop for both partners and have a nice week benefits Brian they come off I owner now with even when the things because the meeting date in mind because he was and Shakespeare retold Smith summer night stream he's a really well known Scottish actor I spend so much stuff I can't remember if he doesn't feel like silver well that was nice the thing where they remember their origins and then the group rose can come out of their very first single and I think it will not be in there you know because I thought was the things that really matter for them I'm assuming not sexualized as well I don't know a great deal about the story about how they got started but I'm assuming they would put together like a quota should record label kind away I don't think obviously with the big for different parts of the country I don't know what the friends as teenagers and just started organically I think the with manufactures and they save money factor and %HESITATION got a story for them to tell I think they were pretty young when they all got together I think there are many factors I'm gonna Silas with obstinate date the Vegas of memories and I don't know how bad my man anyway so you just go and I can do this yourself but I do remember them send stuff like they live together they had a house together at one point but they were working towards making it and the music industry so I think you're right I think they have been put together and they were living together they're working towards us but they were flat broke they were really struggling for a long time every party and just constantly work and to where it says and then they go off that single and they need a bay became a phenomenon of the night and everybody started dressing for my I think it would do anyway that's where the I think we felt like we had a license did I think that was one point where about the Germans over her solutions for anything Maaseik whites combat trousers when but the material hanging off them we all have I had a block para wore them all the time he was never don't get no thanks Colton doors already dangers because will connect the likes together if you like random bits of fabric and it was a cough well it was like a mental thing yeah while the U. T. and your legs together and that was sort of like a light version of %HESITATION but I used to wear me out on the C. biking Charlie Sir still I didn't either have been quite and all those found I just never contracted over the land mostly wears skinny thing will come yet I'm not comfortable then the book I don't trip over half an inch of call the scars and then he's do you have anything else you would like to order anymore clearly you will explore the main one certainly is the way the star machine works around them every time I watch I try and focus on a different one so like the B. I'm coming characterful government likes its characters I think even just like the little Addis between the scenes so much happened yeah one of my favorite joke says what if they find the cure for deja vu and repeat that to you like all not me what if they find a cure for deja vu all nothing in them yeah I think it may be okay so there's loads more without realizing how awesome sorry but we do it so why not played as if he's telling the joke he thought about it tells you know it's the same collective so called me and pasted it's not a joke for them the joke for the audience yes and again it goes into how melodramatic his life is and then when the auch bishop of Candleford shows but it was Richard Pryor's Jerry makes a flip in common is the pope Catholic because it's sure enough do you like a waste of time for boys clash and see if I can cook for him first and then the newspaper headline is done by schools question authenticity of the pope and then he's on some sort of representation of the check in yeah on TV saying of course he's a Catholic what evidence to the spice girls have met up media machine where he even controls the Chechen away you can separate things and girls everywhere that's a good point and then the demand the photographer that questions his credentials he goes he has a photo if you swing socks is one of you picking your nose he is one of you making out with a girl when you were twelve years at a time traveling photographer at the site you have so much power as an editor of a magazine in the late nineties but the only thing you'll be impressed by is a literal titled with a code after he happens to be richer right yeah Unocal you I noticed that because I like watching the credits because of gold mines vaccinations so this completed in nineteen ninety seven and it was copyrighted to five girls in the middle yeah so they had their own production company for this there's nothing really much to say about it I just thought that was notable when they list all the songs at the end there was listed as having a writing credit as well yeah it's it's spice girls away another song writer we've covered everything with cover the aliens cover the music montage good thing you've ever rated covered everything I think it's something more profound you can say that you forgot nobody %HESITATION yeah with mentioned the pake well he's the star of the show over her %HESITATION she's the star of the show I don't know if this is it is it the playful movie but I do think there is a lot to say about it and I'm looking to be seen and it was so much going on with so many genres that you can pick up on little things yeah it's film and popular culture letter it yes I like to flock safe I enjoy things like about anyway so I love all the references because it shows that the after pic this together even if the spice girls have much to do that or not he ever paid all of that together knows their stuff and then they would still create and hearing something about the spice girls phenomena at the same time I mean I mean they were there and they were acting in it but somebody so it's got that put it all together and it is still full of makes us laugh twenty years on and it's H. still right thanks in years to come it would be young people coming across the S. and it would be really good fun romp for them but it's fairly innocent there's some stuff with baton yeah I mean it's P. G. and certainly the right rating for it yeah I wouldn't put any high it yeah that's one of the things if you don't know what they're on about you won't know what they're on about over your head it's just good fun as you say there's some other stuff you can get into a I mean I think it be and since early March from an academic point the VA and cultural studies point if he be comparing it with the baby %HESITATION sounds hard day's night and health and things like that and I can't speak to those because I haven't seen them I have a lot of people will probably think less of me are not live me but I never banned the Beatles fans I am the Kinks girl off I've never really seen posted by the Beatles but they either talked into or they created I don't know which and energy yeah avoid them the media came out of the maybe for them it was a post war thing as well where people are starting to relax a bit more and enjoy themselves and be okay with being involved in culture I don't know what it is about that phenomenon and the RT sixty spot there was a moment and they went for it yeah that's very much representing fifteen coming out and being like team with a capital T. you know we got money to spend we've got our own little identities and we're going to do what we want and the hysteria by girl found them and then this was a whole different kind of girl from yeah but the spice girls this was quite empowering I remember you know in my high school to retain talent shows on there were groups of girls he waits he would get several groups of five girls he added all give out which one is going to be she's one of the five dress about like them and perform well usually nine to one of the songs and make a dumb stuff or something and start again those today that over emphasize femininity complete dressed up exactly yeah because their costumes change so much it's just the general style so if you'd be amazed at the level short skirts or dresses can I just wait till he say it's blown paid tales and the big shoes or bags of salt you know just something that excuse to not overly sexualized but still something between Carly and woman made the sporty it's just football tops not effort I always felt sorry for her because she had the least lover cost extra heat or you can like food or folklore posted from FIFA points straightened but Jerry and smell day there is a phone while the family when you ready go to tie the fake make up the fake hair the big fates and pull the flash on display and squeezing up to date %HESITATION itis color selector friends by remembers talent shows where some of the senior girls would pay Stephanie another tough to fight over what songs we're going to take so we will come to one of three the reason I have to go and check he did a lot of pain I think this more once I can stop it no it was not one at someone with a video where there in the desert file on I know which video you mean because one of the favorite free to see more of my my fear road and it's just a still from the film but I was very popular his name is it like is it run away because it's the last Christmas but much yes to it and she sent to revisit that the thing back fill up time but also what is the main nanti sampai and shit and you're on the move that money means he as a kid and then no I always time after could you think it has H. well made up you see they have a lot of issues with having a cut somebody out of it like a week before releasing it have a cookout references to princess Diana because she had died during Cornish Brian's journey to self cheers I'll use minute by a serial killer and had him out she was a cook and so I'm I'm I'm looking scripting I didn't realize those platforms I know all the princes and the premier I was interested in that very very shocking because because I think it's very rare Doxie phone booking and policymakers actually doing that set and then it's such a London centric yeah I mean at the end of the call to set it was all filmed on location at the intended or the studios and check on them even with the Milan must have been in the studio that's something you could not gather around the stadium signs which no bother really your second units of beta one stand up comedians try even there's no need for anybody else to be involved in that yeah anything else no not really apart from everybody shops you watch the spice girls movie looks very sad about it yeah I think it's a good point actually if you've never given it a go I would recommend him %HESITATION I days before start recording again yeah I have two other things it's been twenty years insane asylum but I believe this very firmly that you see them at the right time in your life because I would have been receptive to that when your local for me it feels like a million years ago yeah I would have been totally resistance so lots to go for that even a couple years ago probably had too much from snobbery to have thought that but no I just feel it you know it's really important to embrace stuff I know he S. there's a lot of stuff that will never bother with and I will think not going to go there but they say I don't know I just think this captured a moment I think it's a moment that has a very long acco yeah that's that I think you definitely shouldn't write film off because a lot of people enjoyed it and because a lot of the people were young women all go it certainly in the past year with Wonder Woman coming out of so many people said for years all women shouldn't be direct and found because he would want to go and see films made by by eight women not too boring and we keep proving them wrong we keep breaking breaking box office records people do you want to see these things because we're more than half the population of this planet so of course we want our own stuff and it has been really interest in the past few months watching all the vehicle was found yeah thinking about girl date on them but I suppose the thing with this is a top of the line below the line COS seeing these five skills that says you know yeah fight goes production book of see the doctor was mail them out I just I'm in full I was at the court I'm single he like in a lot of the writings about he was very much the puppet master behind it all I think maybe a couple weeks before the film came out after they are broken my friends and it's just the idea of maybe go power is post feminism and it didn't work and the only way they could really clean the freedom is to break up from being with my skills yeah you can say off the goalpost film books not really yeah all of the men in the film all representative of men in the real world some of them are just making that money and some of them are causing a lot more harm being honest about things like the me too movement of childish affection of that is in the film well it's reflecting what they experienced and what the people writing it with representing their very young at this point as well when you're young and it's happened then you just think oh this is just how it is this is just what happens when you get older you go %HESITATION I don't think so okay actually I didn't consent to you so much of what was happening to me you know even like that back where multi million Honda made that's not real and then it's not but it's still cool this isn't okay actually and even the way the shops I think her head slowly but surely and for him yeah crap yeah something about it to stay celibate but actually especially walked in at night some of this isn't quite okay hello don't go off and try to get their independence and I think specifically of by Jeri Halliwell and I think she has been married since two thousand she she's not cherry Holly well anymore but she did have a bit of a solo career on the way so that she had this brutal exercise regime and she called really skinny and then the music Betty she was doing her solo stuff you should cover if it's raining men those videos are by showing off not really overly skinny toned body that very very thin but muscular body this constructed scope to tiny thing that should become I was so nice seeing her in the film being prolonged shifts because even at the time I thought she was stumbling around Mel paid together of Paris in March us these incredibly beautiful and then that he had a three way that the top two weeks immediately colors fought one figure two younger men I mean I know they do that with little mix now what do I do reading or anything about them but they do that once a man about she's the second set hi but they did talk to Jerry how you out I think that was partly why she went off him so skinny but I think they were also like that's I know definitely and obviously now sees the sporty one she has talked about in the past %HESITATION she's experiencing depression eating disorders so I think even if we're talking about things in terms of time periods the what's the point not where it was like fashionable but it was kind of like an academic within cultural icons I still hold the woman with very very thin it was all the bite the fall based on how the lack and I can just enjoy the bodies show can I buy the meat and what the bond stuff but you know that Terry you see them with food on the table I don't think he said which I mean obviously a film if you have to redo the scene reduce and you could be in clothes it's not comfortable factors to do it a hundred times but just thinking about I don't think no I don't think so at first Victoria Beckham a member every time she had another baby they have similar to walk it Middleton gas not think she's only part of the hospital and she's already a size four again you know it puts pressure on people traveling over there of these perfect bodies is it India Chris well you're right you know she was Miss World nine nine four six she's inviting prejudice and shoes and came off their systems and things okay and U. K. %HESITATION difference in America she's very famous in India when she had her baby she's just regular happened carrying a human for nine months %HESITATION assignees and so it would be impressive like she's a drug addict Allison everything so placed and then these women end up with easy the Sooners because they can't keep up the pressure nobody is a commodity when the girl groups should be practicing in but it's never been the same this is very depressing yes I usually end up on a sorry anything sure you can finish what do you think the pick was cold because he didn't see him in the garden his name with a trilby Mike Fraser we're very jealous of your time with us for more those very special for you well thank you very much for this because I would know who watch this film otherwise and I really got it saying that %HESITATION I think it's really cool to watch it with me as well because they many thanks again to Christy for giving up an afternoon status if you find this fun interesting or useful please make a regular pads to Petri on dot com to enable us to keep probing areas of audiovisual cultures funds are occurring to create the websites which can be fined up audio visual culture stopper depressed stock com thanks for listening supporting and sharing catch you next time
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