Audiovisual Cultures episode 52 – British Film History with Dr Lawrence Napper automated transcript

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hello this is audio-visual cultures the podcast at mind’s eye two different aspects of culture production for your listening pleasure I’m a host and creator polo player in this edition and Rochelle and I visit British film historian dr. Laurence snapper in his office at King’s College London to hear all about his work big thanks to our members at forward slash a V cultures for your much appreciated support stay tuned at the end if you’d like to find out how to help the podcast and get in touch until and do you enjoy this chat with Orient’s about his work on early cinema empire and imperialism and cinema pantomime and much more do you be warned there is some swearing and much nerdery ahead my interests are around early cinema cinema twenties really British cinema so guess what they intersect early British cinema a thrilling and my previous project have generally been around British early cinema British cinema the 20s and 30s I did a project about cinema and the middle ground later between popular British films and novels bestselling novels and theatre shows and television and how they will mashed up together and thrilling middlebrow into war excitement and then later on I did a book about British representations of the First World War in the 1920s where I was interested in you know promise let’s talk about that and I was interested in films that came before that’s in front at a point where wasn’t really possible to say oh god this war was terrible and it was complete waste of time we’re actually people watching the films have been totally affected by the war in ways that you know you couldn’t just say well this was a waste you had to say there’s some kind of meaning to be got from the fact that my father brother son died how did the films represent that and deal with that so since I finished that finished a couple of years ago and I’ve been gradually thinking about new projects that I picked a family know quite a nice position because I’m just starting a couple so I’m not really sure I’m doing basically there’s lots of things where I might go not where you clear which once again so maybe I think I am it’s obvious which one he’s gonna become this is a big thing next but I’m still so the main one that I’m thinking about the moment is Empire thinking about British cinema as an imperial cinema and that is partly a response to I guess a tradition that I belong to of teaching British cinema as a national cinema where you think about representing Britain as a nation what does that mean and where you think about which cinema is an industrial construct where the main competitor is America and all the debates in the 1920s and 1930s and right up to the 60s and right onto now are about this idea that somehow which cinema is under threat because there’s this huge American cinema that’s like and there quite often talked about in terms of American culture colonizing Britain and I think we’re sort of comfortable with those sorts of ideas and what we tend to forget of course is that and the films that we made under the famous graphics and various other acts got distributed to whole range of places that aren’t Britain but where parts of the British Empire and also lots of those films represent our Imperial activities so it’s not just about saying here loads of sort of an empire adventure films and this is the way they represent British imperial activities but it’s also thinking about how British films more generally circulate within an imperial context and in the post Imperial context so how do films are bad I suppose the obvious example is Simba thumb from the 50s about the male male right all right how did that go down Kenya or what were the relationships that meant that that got made how difficult was it those sorts of questions I guess one things I’m starting to discover is of course films like that they don’t get shown in places perhaps because the Colonial Office says let’s not annoy the natives showing them the film about highway superfab and their fights for independence or a load of all crap no no that’s not something like alone an office is interested in getting involved in because the film itself can create a flashpoint so yeah I just started that but I’m it’s like it’s one of those things where you just think it’s like this stupid first little project where you think like now I’m gonna have to read everything about the First World War it’s like you would believe how many books are about Empire about D colonialism and then you look at the films and the moment I’m sort of concentrating on 1945 to 1960 and I thought I knew bushes em are pretty well from that period but no no turns out wait wait Benny imagine and I like there were so many fields where Empire or the vision quite bad quite young officer

it’s in a colonial country yeah at a point where that country is beginning to have uprisings he’s part of a very small British army force which is a ten oh I that gun left-side big thing is okay we may be about to give up this country but we’re gonna do it right extremely stiff upper-lip idli and there’s even a bit where the native officer who’s come into the officer’s club then presents his ultimatum and that must counter refused to even listen to him because he’s got his hat on yes and he says you have to if you want to be in here you have to take your hat off that’s the way this officer’s club building works everyone has to take the house I’m not going to listen to you enjoyed that you have so the biggest speech of the whole thing is about no man here with his act on is it when it seemed to me like one of these meditations on white although it might be right for the Empire to just stop existing very soon that it would be a little bit too traumatic to us to make the entire thing had been a huge mistake and therefore they would have to be a discussion with itself they employed have to have a discussion with yourself about gentle negotiation out of it even in situations where countries were just asserting independence yeah I mean it’s quite yeah I mean I think that’s interesting film if you think about the narratives of most countries that do gained independence in that period is that there’s been quite a long term campaign both litical lobbying campaign and a campaign of action violence where they’re fighting for independence quite a lot of the time what happens is the British can’t keep the whole situation together and they suddenly pull out and credibly quickly leaping basically a bloodbath on the ground so there’s the difference between the fantasy of our withdrawal which is we are maintaining control throughout even in terms of demeanor and dress code and actually the fact of the matter which is that quite a lot of places it became untenable for us to stay and we would just desperately try them I mean I’m saying we you see I mean it is that a part of this project is about trying to take seriously viewpoints where it’s not really possible to say we in that context so I mean basically colonized peoples and the ways in which their film history relates to that film history and the ways in which they understand those events and portrayed them in films and this whole project came really out of of discussion I had with an A student who’ve more or less said to me your vision was kind of a bit racist Lawrence because okay there wasn’t a massive amount of immigration to Britain until the 1950s and yes you do cover that when you hit the nineteen fifties but newsflash you had an empire and you’ve never engaged in an zone there are lots of ways in which you could be talking about representations of race and colonialism and the ways in which British cinema is complicit in a whole range of racist practices way is not necessary for it to be sapphire or flame on the streets there’s plenty of forebears for that and I think if you also teach a history of British cinema there is just plucky Londoners hiding in the tubes during the Blitz that’s what a version of British history then you’re doing everybody disservice for any because more complex Oh history agents involved in that’s terribly serious isn’t it I mean of course you can see I applied just basically what I’d be doing it by a political event I have got piles and piles of films from the 50s look a bit

you know I think it’s a Josie funders but the sampling funded project that Duncan Pete’s been doing which is pretty cinema agency yeah project yeah it smells like the begin new decade by decade multi-volume history of the cinema of the atlantic archipelago history of the UK stroke trials i mean i think yes it’s there’s definitely there’s scope I think for completely rethinking the category of wishes cinema in the context of those things I think that certainly that what that project is involved in and also think about the big project that new Greece and Colin McCabe had a few years ago about the colonial Film Archive they created this clone in the film database it was not feature films so much as educational documentaries films that were made by the Colonial Office for showing to native peoples on making scare quotes a lot of the time those were films about control it’s an extraordinary resource about a superb database loads of research done by Tom Rice just kind of amazing where he talks about the film and how it fits in both to film policy and Imperial policy or colonial policy and the films are there so you can click on it and it’s like come on here we are in Malaysia in all the films chronologically that do with this space so there’s lots of I’m not

rethinking categories business I’m just thinking cuz we’re picking it very difficult questions at the moments again scare quotes the Irish question I’m wondering if before the protection of Ireland when we’re saying British cinema is that including anything high design and fitting that I know it you’ve done something image on hello yes that book I’m John has a lot of Irish chapters that are inflected towards Ireland in that book and actually that my chapter doesn’t really talk about but I mean it is absolutely true that so France is one of the films i wrote about in the book about the 1920s in the war as a film called ii and of course the first one was pretty contentious in ireland in 1926 wherever 23 i think it is an EP is shown in a cinema in dublin and basically I was nationalist completely object to it because it is the sort of imperialist act it’s an act of remembrance there’s a couple of incidents where prints of the film are stolen and taken out of cinemas and about show them there’s one interesting thing where there’s a bombing in the cinema hoping anybody gets hurt but the cinema projection booth I mean that’s one of the things that really interested me is this idea of not necessarily what’s being represented it’s not about censorship it’s not saying oh you want to cut these bits out in this film it’s like everything about this film is so politically edges that actually we’re just gonna try and prevent it from being shown there’s a good example of that happening in the dramas asked about Prem Chandra that talks about that in India in the 1913 with a film called the drum where basically people like this film is like the total imperialist nonsense and racist in all these various kinds of ways you know they’ve got why actors playing blackface villains as Indians and I mean it’s just sort of inset and what happens is people just assemble at the cinema and say you know [ __ ] this you know let’s close this film down and eventually as I was saying before it gets withdrawn the Colonial Office say probably a good idea if we just stop showing this so this idea of film is this flashpoint for those kinds of local politics you know we sort of think of the film’s is just being made in the UK and then being distributed everybody having a great time actually but a lot of time against the business fringe the bomb and that was the other thing that if you think about all of those stories that you tell about the development of Britain British national cinema it’s like when you talk about the quota act in 1936 and those debates those debates will happen in Empire conferences no Imperial they’re literally in the context of Imperial conferences and about how these films how can we control representation of white people to non-white colonial subjects possibly be oppressing or sit alongside if there are other national cinemas that are actually colonial cinemas we could do the same like from soar yeah Holland or Germany yes absolutely and I think not an expert in those national cinemas at all but my sense is that those film history traditions are more advanced very first research I did for my PhD thesis was the very earliest British from fan magazines and first few issues of these the prestige films that were featured in the first few issues that were these magazines were just short story versions or films very first prestige films that feature in these magazines were the films that were being made by the Kalin company I’m suspecting New York the films they were making in Ireland so the filming them in Ireland cutting and printing them in New York and then they plead demons these to be an appropriate product to lead the founding of this new film fan magazine in the UK words yeah even though these films were being made by some quite pro Irish Republican lawmakers that’s working for macaron company there was a couple of Irish from the story and stony Tracy and Peter strain recently did a documentary about this but making what are called the okay limb films yeah and apparently there was a bit of conflict between the UK government at the time and these American filmmakers because the content of these films were really anti British and then somehow these films become the films that have foregrounded in film fan magazine is printed in London and that is distributed throughout the British Isles as this thing that’s totally palatable for all somehow someone just decides to go and that one the colonized subjects are the ones who may like these films more war than the colonizers someone probably just spoke really hard in a meeting in favor for grounding these films which were implicitly quite critical of yeah but it’s wrong yeah it was a bit of conflict I did not sniff at all through reading these magazines yeah cause only through this great research somebody’s to family story today and they own evident how from the way sister films are received in the press in Ireland or from meetings within the UK ministers what was the sometime girl I think the evidence they used either it was the personal memoirs of Jean Gontier who had leave that case at the time or it was definitely that but it was also I think they also consult some official documents in a government archive somewhere or it was the producer Sidney olcott’s own Diaries or Lexus that then yes it wasn’t just the kind of well guess according to what we think quite I’ve been going on here there was at they’ve managed to find evidence of actual fracas petechiae Franco’s with the local Catholic priest because the young girls in the town where these American actors were staying we’re getting a bit too familiar and so there was and then yeah that was finding the permissions they got to film in Ireland were granted by the UK government but this that it to get quite resistant after a while when everybody was not company was making yeah that’s interesting I mean one of the things that I’m hopeful for and I’ve done a bit of preliminary research about this and I think there is evidence suggests that there might be some material there is the film finances arc are you familiar with that bill finances it starts in the sort of mid to late 40s and they are an underwriting company so they’re an insurance company effectively but underwrite the finance for film productions start in the UK they’re actually they’re still going and they’ve become quite a big part of the American system but effectively what happens is because they’re underwriting the budget for these films in order to agree to do that they need full rundown of the script and the budgeting what the filmmakers preparing to do and they have a report on that saying whether they think the filmmaker is a complete liability whether they think the script is viable and then they think the shooting schedule is viable so you get these preliminary reports where they say and this is completely fine that’s a really trustworthy director or you get preliminary reports where you say you know this how colic is your terrible liability and you know let’s not go with this but then again the producers quite good and the project sees through quite well-developed so we’ll think about that and then you get daily reports they demand have done your course from onset where they basically justify if they’ve gone over time any point so in my fantasy there will be material which says you know here we are shooting on location in Kenya and we are going over because we are experiencing some resistance from the local population about that in terms of the project I don’t know whether I’ll find anything about that but you do find I mean those are the kinds of things that will show up in those reporters you have a very keen fantasy there I do have you see we have imagined was gonna be the arc over there you go there that’s

but there’s not some other thrilling things I’m sure there will be useful material it’s a really interesting archive you get these Eureka moments where you didn’t think even could possibly exist and it’s even better than what you were after what you’re after doesn’t survive but even juicier stuff turns up as well so it’s yes so much rewarding after yes they all say yeah and things that you really don’t expect to find I mean I was looking for something about training disabled projectionists and I found this in the same file there’s this whole stuff about the profits from the back of the sallman who owns the house access them and done anything about yet but you know all those notes they’re waiting to clear

basically blimey I forget which department Lee I think the War Office is saying oh look how marvelous you know we’re donating these profits to veterans charities and the Treasury is saying no you are not that you’ll find we had a monopoly on this and you know this film belongs to us and so therefore those profits belong to us thank you very much and there’s a massive the exchange of letters where they’re basically fighting who owns the rice well my great things about doing uncover research in this country is our forebears may have been imperialist but they also kept quite a lot of record

pinkey looking at the colonial surface you get this memo about a colonial thing and it clearly just goes around the offices and so you get these things say you know Malay straits fine Kenya fine just goes round the world why all and all these representatives of these different places are like oh well we think this might be a bit of a pop music this list in the margin basically say what they think avenge Tarrasch and that’s when handwritten stuff is a bit of a blessing because getting some sort of official document that my existing multiple copies and there’s quite easy to get hold of but then you get to a copy where someone’s recently some it says there in the margins that’s something Samson you’re cold yeah so that’s one of the things I’m do we get to hear a bit more about that article you’ve done about the disabled veterans rejectionist projectionists sir very marginalized sometimes a film culture anyway i minutes disabled projection of so that’s something I’d never heard of before that was quite funny I enjoyed writing that so it was about basically and again it was partly through the book about the First World War I think I came to it by reading through kinematic at weekly in there were a couple of diss items in Keaney we choose effectively said the skenes for training disabled ex-servicemen as projectionists have now finished and as i am one of these schemes by the way and it turns out that during the First World War towards the sort of middle of the first book was being a film projection this wasn’t a protected operation so there was a real shortage of non professionals and I mean I guess people will know about the fact that they trained women up to be film projectionist and there was lots of discussion about whether women had to were able to keep calm in such a ways you might need to the psychological skills to be a precious and there’s a load of other stuff where they’re saying oh well but you know woman’s flowing garments will be inflammable and Pirates have a litter they actually the ministry sends somebody off into lab to do tests on benefits of world to see how that’s all but the other people that are in the projection booth are teenagers so no boys up to about between 13 and 16 get employed as rejection which is obviously not a great situation there’s a scheme that starts which is about trying to Train disabled ex-servicemen has a kind of rehabilitation thing to make them it projectionists and it’s done through the same sorts of central hospital for men who’ve lost their limbs and they do training in electrician and car maintenance and all kinds of other things and being projection this is one of the options that we need to choose there’s a school in London that’s run by a guy called Paul Kimberley and so hope to get in this about I was always bit like how does this work because being a projection this is a pretty physical occupation you’re in a pretty small pretty dark room quite pokey you’ve got to lift heavy reels of film above your head you know put them onto the top the feed spools of the projector in this period that hand-cranked it’s like you have to be pretty fit new projectionist but it turns out actually if you’ve lost a leg but you’ve got two arms then you are deemed to be able to do that and there was lots of discussion about the idea that maybe this was B but we had facial disfigurements so they had all their limbs but they had such terrible fish for the bigger ones that they should be hidden away in the projection box and that was a blessed relief I found evidence of that at all I did find evidence of was lots of people who were not lot significant number of people who were trained who had lost limbs lost legs I mean basically what happens is as soon as the wall comes to an end tada you’ve got thousands of projectionists coming back from the front saying well we want our jobs back and for ministry assist oh oh well whatevs forget it disabled men you’re not going to be projection it’s down it’s part of a wider story about how Bruce Lee veterans were treated yes back on the scratch even do women he’ll also expect to go straight back into the homes I mean it’s certainly in terms of the women that exactly the same thing happens in the Second World War and that’s one of the things that’s really interesting in the archive is because when this gets raised in the Second World War the minister asks for the final stone the first would also they’re all there in the same time and they’re all set yeah the same concern about clothing and whether they’ll be able to keep their heads if there’s a fire or there’s all the same sorts of issues like just completely reproduce themselves it’s still quite a male-dominated profession now well having an objection just I’ve ever met spinner guy I’ve been trying to find a projectionists for this show and yeah no it means Turkey that means the sort of network and a club but there are some female projectors there was a great project that John burrows and Charlotte Bronson were running at Warwick if you look on their websites called the projection box I think there’s quite a considerable number of reminiscences by women projectionists about what it was how they got into the industry what it was like for a while how’s the mark anymore she was there when I was there so he’s talking about you I ever got in the production boxes and I was teaching and I was showing a DVD so she was actually working with 35mm and is she is she left her did she stay as a projection yes – okay so but she’s working in it so they different place last I heard I’m not even sure she’s still in Northern Ireland living somewhere else like as you regularly observe most Northern Irish people this thing but first of all shortages of cinema stuff I’ve been in the British Library photographing hundreds of pages from the kinematic yearbook for my big you know counting do we love a bit of chaotic yeah some counting wood I wasn’t really reading stuff houses photograph 1088 got but I noticed lots of mentions that cinemas are closing down not for want of custom but for ones of staff it’s been a while actually since I’ve read Mike Hammonds back on sin imagine first world war but I can’t remember any piece of work that’s mentioned that phenomenon of cinemas closing down not forms of custom performative start yes the big story about the first world war is cinema rises to become the pastime of choice such that the squeeze is put onto theater and musical but it’s probably nowhere near and bad symbolism yeah everyone probably no I don’t think it is better and I think one of the things that John Burroughs argues one of the things he says is that one of the issues is that by the beginning of the First World War there are too many said well all right it’s been a financial thing that you could invest in building cinemas and the pentacle Weaver did it and there were a saturation pilots in Amar’s so it could be that that’s part of that sort of you just mean that it’s not just one to staff it’s the fact that they actually producing staff from another sitting across the street was anything that audience or one of the cinemas yeah and also he’s a little bit more reserved about the idea that there’s a massive cinema going boom says well that was really late in the war and really needing more towards the end of the war just into the piece am I totally misrepresenting his argument for memory but you managed to get to the end of it oh it’s pretty great book I think it’s kind of amazing I’m about 10 pages through it right oh really oh it’s worth because it’s a bit like the Borgias it’s like some really quite big names getting his argument is article version of the book you know get an article version yeah II think it’s cause no punches yeah yeah my lease I this person is wrong miss the reason and if we could all be so brave yeah man he’s been babe but it is a great I mean she’s a great week so they seen everything I’m policy really books about Empire I’m thinking oh [ _ ] you know it’s like picked up one yes so was there work on disabled voting projectionists was it for an article yes it was it was actually for John and Charlotte it was show us at something and she said they were we’re doing this project that sounds very interesting and so I went into the special issue of the journal popular film British it used to be cool something in this course something slightly different in every British cinema on television yes Joe the British cinema television aired they had a projection they had one that showcased research dimension and this I think that’s not about winning positions and that’s one of the other things I’ve sort of got into is that idea that sit line is positive with this notion of protesting the space no idea of the cinema space that somewhere where you can trace people having fines I mean talking about you and you’re counting I’ve I mean I’m sure we all started using the British newspapers online like a Man Thing resource much more than we used to and I’ve started doing that to find stuff about things happening in cinema spaces like fights Mars probably what you doing genealogy the thing you hope for is that someone of your ancestors got in a bit of trouble with the law because they don’t but then it reduces more than just births marriages deaths something is found in your documentation and my both sides of my family my dad and wants a oh great my there’s been a bit of that but the same thing is also applying when you’re doing film history if someone got me in a bit of a scrape with the law now suddenly at the very least there’s local newspapers writing accounts of what’s happening in the courts because that’s a source of a column for a local newspaper and then of course if the court records exist you got somewhere else to go sometimes transcripts of into our speeches about cinema where people are giving you little tiny tastes of what they think about this thing and that’s when I was rare instances where what people are thinking all the time what we really hope we really wish people would just write down everyone just keep a diary or Diaries never become public property those rain since it happens when someone does something illegal or someone accuses well an example of that came when I was writing that very article about disabled projectionists I started out with a load of discussions from local tribunals where people where basically the committee is say you should have been called up why aren’t you being a soldier and their employers coming symbolizes my manager and therefore provides and there’s a dispute about whether this seventeen-year-old should be in uniform or not or whether he is mean about cinema and one of the cinema managers who is I think himself trying to fight against being called up is the guy who later went on to make wonderful London so I joke with the law it was it Frank Parkinson I think it was oh yeah you’re right that really helps and that resource is kind of amazing because you do get that it does enable that was the other thing that was really useful in terms of writing their projectionists article because you can follow so each local area has its disabled projectionists training school so Newcastle had cow-house heard of that I don’t think he’s exists as a building anymore but there was this place called Cowen house which sure had been I think you know some rich local widow I think had given a lot of money to set up this General Hospital I think for disabled veterans to be retrained in a whole range of things you know I don’t know where it was no I’m totally looking that it will be in the archive I should imagine you find something in the time where our cars so you had these local you can trace them all locally but you can also trace where the films go locally so there was a load of stuff I imagined identify one film which showed disabled men who had been trained actually projecting stuff and then you can follow this the route because the Minister of War uses the film as a way of demonstrating what they’re doing for disabled veterans they show it to the Veterans Association to transfer publicize how Martha’s pension scheme is evolved and so there are these accounts of these films showing disabled veterans being trained as projections and then it is revealed at the end of the show that it has been projected but it’s the kind of thing that you would never be able to find if you were just sitting in : Dale day-after-day can only happen through digital searches I put a speak I suppose it was it was innocently a disclaimer in the instruction to my recent book where I said I’m adding to modifying a story that Richard de Cordova told and I’m sure that if he’d lived into the era of digital newspapers he would have done this already because it was really was really unfair fight because this guy didn’t outlive the 1990s up against the resources that we have to be accessible now there’s you know I could have done this with all of my limbs tied behind my back ya know it is amazing the difference that is made now it’s interesting that you get that extra level of detail and you get that nuance the broad stories doesn’t change that much one thing I found is that those tiny little links that send you to a new resource that you didn’t think might be relevant those are the things I’ve been finding digitized newspapers yeah my story about max Linder only came up as a result though I was actually American digitized newspapers on newspapers com his name was being mentioned quite a lot in early 1910 and it just struck me hang on that’s that’s before the Florence Lawrence they and the nuts that set me off like in their other archives so it makes links I think that’s one of the usual things that anything be linking together a lot of archives you’re going to start to see everything in a new light and that can lead to some quite big changes to the story yes yes thank you and I’m not going being into you can never stop [ _ ] can I ask you a bit more about the idea of the meadow Bry middlebrow is when that was my thesis and I guess I think about it now a part of my motivation for writing that thesis was that I wanted to write about British film of 30 which I thought was hab and like everybody around me thought was officership and it was this is something about I guess how like who are you like what the hell are you doing in terms of being a film studies person are you somebody wishes they were a critic or is a Christian and has moved into the room studies and so you’re actually or thinking about this text of the film darling you know whether this is a great film or whether it is not it doesn’t deserve to be in the Canon are you is it the movie pantheon that kind of film studies versus I mean yeah loads of different approaches so you might say well I’m a philosopher and actually what I’m interested in is the ways in which this film speaks to philosophy I’m over that talks where I put my hand up and I say they couldn’t care less like really that is not far their interests their interest is in how the film speaks to them about the philosophy ideas that it contains or that they would expect and you know film his story in our town Andrew his being much more of a film historian his story meet i person me although I’m much more historically person than most people in mind but your life mega detail my approach when I was trying to work out how I was going to find any it’s used to write about Jesse Matthews was what does it mean to the people then what does it mean to that audience what does this film say to that audience how does it help them frame the world around them and what I was up against constantly not only from people around me who was there

but also from the critics of the period who was their darlings for Hitchcock’s okay but you know these trashy films were vulgar people they’re not interesting or they were saying cinema as an art form should be cinematic and these films don’t perform that and therefore they can be dismissed out of hand so you get that from people like William M hunter it’s sort of coming out of a kind of huge Olivos fr leavis of notion of like this is an art form that should be cure to its own thing it should be cinematic just as the novel should be literary just as the photograph should be photographic rather than referring to painted arts just I mean that idea of a sort of purity of medium and the sort of purity of the object in terms of its relationship to the medium gives it a higher status I mean this is something you get no new cinema of course all the time where you go to modern art galleries and they’re showing you workers coming out of the factory missing the clock it’s so modern Daleks and modern you see love is this idea that this is so new and modern and you’re like well but no actually and we just think about how this fits into the culture of its time yes it’s modern but it’s not a revelation because it’s drawing on theatre and it’s drawing on a whole range of cultural objects that are in this period that is part of it’s not just that suddenly became cinematic and that’s kind of where this idea the military I kind of settled on the notion of the middlebrow as being a way in which a different relationship to the medium is described at the time so people who are cycling off British cinema at the time are kind of using middle browse a way of doing that and they’re saying well it’s I mean people still say this about films directed by a theatre directors like anything with Judi Dench in you know you get people who are fancy themselves as being interested in cinemas a cinematic medium saying well it looks like it’s directed by a theatre director he doesn’t know how to use the camera he doesn’t know how to edit properly it’s just a stage play that’s been opened out of it those kinds of discussions are being made in the 30s as well and I’ll get around the thirties I mean my idea of the middle row is that you turn that criticism on its head and to celebrate the way in which the film is embedded within the culture that it so film adaptations of novels have been big in the period but also novels you know the novels that enter the Canon get taught in universities from that period are not than opposite people were reading and to go back to those novels that people were reading and of course what you find is that most of those best salable were made into films and people weren’t being like heard darling you know I can’t possibly watch that dreadful adaptation of that pure a piece of literary genius they were like oh yeah here’s the story of the good companions and now it’s a film how fab you know so there’s a sense in which it’s like oh it’s not necessarily cultural object to middlebrow that makes it middlebrow it’s the attitude towards culture both from the audience and that is implied by the ways in which the objects certain feelings but it’s also I think my argument was that it was kind of a specifically British or English thing of that moment so it was about making sense of culture in the light of mass communication technologies that allowed culture circulation in life greater ways than it had done before so this relationship with radio and television as well as film as well as bestselling novels you know you think that novels yeah okay there’s Dickens but actually bestselling novels are really a feature of sort of 20s and 30s that idea of a novel that you bought and took Oh Marvin that was serialized or that was happened in the story papers or like an object of volume it’s sort of obviously middlebrow at the same time as I was writing became much more viable to talk about in literary studies so there’s lots of literary studies of the middlebrow writing and this sort of seen a release on speaker partly because of the kind of our guest starting allows sunlight and that idea they’re kind of small see conservatism of interwar British literature and also that it’s you know middle barrister understood like a feminine fear where you’re Hemingway’s and your choices are all blow keep looking around but actually the people who are really writing the interesting stuff like ordinary people are reading at people like as a tailor washy call that gets reprinted by Persephone nowadays Dorothea Whipple there’s real interesting like end of college when we did the recordings after the last year’s pretty silent film festival symposium there was lots of Paulo remarking you got to spend a couple of days with people who don’t think your rod and this this is the thing about been within Lawrence’s aura because Lawrence understand war phenomena are intermedia a phenomenon which is caring in print culture probably of severe caring in audio-visual medium as well and so many people are resistant about even now in the company of people who realize that you probably need to look at at least two media and looking at the landscape of one in particular yeah I think that’s absolutely true this leads me well I don’t know that it does but these are the things I was like when I finished

and I’m not quite sure I’m gonna do about the pantomime thing I’m obsessed about it audio-visual fluids I know no boundaries go for it I love pantomime let me count the ways one of the ways in which I love pantomime is that it is a kind of access to 19th century theatre which is living so the kinds of shows that you’re talking about and the VNA archive I do start where although kind of looking at the variety shows all of those things they become part of pantomime but they are also they survive in pantomime pantomime a lot of the time is a variety show if you think about have you seen the pantomime in Newcastle the Danny Adams pantomime I never take you to the New Castle’s got three count them three pantomime and I think the Danny have spent a moment the face always worn off the best in the country he’s an amazing fan but he’s also different from lots of other pantomimes in the country in that because he’s an amazing clown it’s basically a variety show it’s a show of different apps built around him as a star and then incorporate so last it was called Goldilocks of the three bears and the setting was a circus so like the kind of Baron harder figure is runs a circus there’s one circus that doesn’t have animals in theirs and another circus it’s totally cool to animals and say obviously he’s trying to get the three bears so that they can perform in his circus a good one etc etc but of course this is just a perfect excuse for them to get in lots of circuses and the curtain opens and they’re like oh look here we are with the death-defying motorcyclists in a ball of fire ten minutes the other thing I love about phantom Army is that it uses the Victorian theatre space that we’re all used to in a way that absolutely makes the best of it so if you think often you think about the way well you know if you think about the ways in which people fetishize Shakespeare and Shakespeare’s original performance possibly have middlebrow change this was truly popular and we must understand it’d be so weird

middle of London experience melodrama let’s build a whole Victorian theater because we have a load of Victorian theaters they exist they’re all around us and you know that idea that somehow modern theatre should all be like minimalist Ronis like doesn’t come from the culture of those buildings but what does come from the cobwebs pantomime and pantomime uses all the effects that those buildings facilitate and allow all the trapdoor effects or the flying effects or the sea and Lani Oh like in Dick Whittington where they have a shipwreck on stage and then you have an underwater scene all of those theater effects are basically Victorian visual effects and you get to see them still today well how am I talking about it what survived a book about it but also it is the only version of picture theatre you get to see so you never get to see I mean can we name any victorian hits but actually I went to see London after dark at the fin bra the a musical melodrama Singh stage show it’s all about the building of the most honorable thing that you realizes is written as a series of spectacular effects to be rendered in the staging so there’s this brilliant opening sequence where they’re going down to inspect the newly opened circle line I know in this darkened tunnel and suddenly you know there’s a train coming towards them and the figure appears and is knocked over by the train it’s all done with these lighting effects and so it’s like sensational drama in great anyway of course it never gets revived nowadays but what does get revived just have to like just pantomime still massively popular you can still trace the ways in which pantomime both draughts through this thing about intermedia fest story on if you think about the ways in which better my muse is stars some different mediums draws in you know so you’ll get an X Factor star or a reality TV star appearing in the pantomime but you also have a Dame who is local to that area and there’s always that Dame in that place but you’ll also they licensed songs that have been hits that year so it’s super modern every year super modern and every year it changes and also they use things I cinema and they always did use things like cinema I mean from the moment that’s in my first began there was cinematic effects as part of pantomime and they still use them so the you know there’s a point in the second act where you put on your 3d specs and they go on a certain you know submarine you know how they go into the caves looking for the dragon or whatever they do and alike these really extreme 3d effects coming at you in ways that even 3d films can’t manage this League history to tell me I think because even in the Edwardian period these musicals are doing pantos over the new year in a way that means that for about a month they’re practically indistinguishable in theatres and then when these well not all of them but you know the most empires in particular a lot of the most empires become theatres in arms and twenties yeah and they get there by way of this interim phase where they’re playing reviews and pantomimes but basically they’re essentially the same thing and the ones in the made up of episodic bits we’re bringing performers on and off and doing very different sorts of a nice thing I mean I’ve never really quite got my head around the distinction between a musical and a theater is it to do with licensing in the auditorium is it see with you whether you can drink during the show I was reading something your David Maher where he mentioned that wasn’t really that clear that that was the distinction I think it’s a mixture of that because yet that’s part and which sort of license they get from the local council right because it is a music hall they don’t need the theatre license they need the music and dancing license and usually those two different licenses come from two different committees and if the watch committee usually would give some music and dancing licenses they’re worried about Randy horrible so licensing yeah is the difference as for differences between what happens on the stage it’s really quite easy to sell I mean I suppose that makes sense of the ways in which pantomime evolves and like essentially no scissors like at the beginning you get this before Act which is almost like a straight play and then you get the post beat which is the Harlequin aid where they don’t speak and they alternative to the pantomime caps and blah blah blah and Grimaldi comes in the Poliquin aid gets bigger and bigger and then by the late 19th century and you can still see the traces of that in a modern pantomime so like in Dick Whittington you will notice removed it Whittington and that story is pretty strong that you get to the interval basically they’ve gone off on their voyage the second act is a bit like you know we’ve given up on that so you don’t give a [ __ ] anymore you know he goes turn again with you you get barriers Whittington he’s poor rise at the thing gets his cat meets there the cook and mr. fitzwarren’s daughter gets accused of stealing gets thrown out of the house goes onto the hillside is about to leave and here’s the bail saying turn again Whittington you will be Lord Mayor of London the Good Fairy comes in as what makes this all happen and Tehran interval and then they open the next thing it’s like let’s just randomly get on a boat and sail away and here we are on a desert island it’s like same with Johnny Devine so is this week Easter Egg for thingy second I don’t worry Cloudland let’s just talk about for a girl with my parents and my daughters and I we went to repent at an Easter panto involved and I love the fact they have Easter Pantaloon you phenomena baby and I think it was which is the one that’s got the fairy godmother and a bad witch easily BC people you could be Cinderella ah Beauty and the Beast anyway about nine-tenths of it was just shenanigans between secondary characters a lot of it was just a kind of cooking scene in which oh yeah one characters just kept getting and so it was just all immaculately reversed slapstick comedy and every now and then we might get a bit of you know some fairy might come in and actually do I

think it is ten percent it is absolutely that relationship with narrative and spectacle the musical is I mean the stop scene is in every pantomime doesn’t matter what the story is there is a scene where Saddam we’re in the kitchen or Saddam we’re in the laundry or Saddam we’re doing some you know basic you know custard pies are gonna be thrown on this there’s maybe a schoolroom scene where they do lots pratfalls and things Danny Adams you see donkey when they had their stop scene you know it’s gonna happen because they have a canvas that they roll out over the whole thing and they give the front row they do really full but those sort of elements I think every need in this but I can’t the thing my problem is I couldn’t make it work with I mean I’m sure what one could but I’d have to become Andrew to do that looking through the performance histories in the archive and trying to work out where film was used of when it was used how it was used on what relations work sneaky side project person I can justify it for you right now I’ve been making lesser discoveries that a normal way for a cinema to come up out in here between about 1908 and about 1914 was not for new purpose converted a purpose-built venue to the opens showing films it was for an existing music hall to start showing films as one turn on its evening of sake tempo odds yep and then to just increase the amount of time achieving dispenser in films until it’s something like a 50/50 film live venue and then keep increasing the amount of films until it’s essentially just a cinema with a couple of variety actually interspersed and then one more step in its of cinema yeah and much the same happens with town halls those traveling film shows that a the way in which film is the dominant exhibition method for film about 1906 that it just stopped what happens is that the BBU Pictures which has got six outfits touring around Scotland for example it just extends the periods of time for which each of these film outfits is playing at a town hall and then starts to extend them a bit more than experiment bit more and essentially a town hall a public hall and Odd Fellows Hall a temperance all these things are being used permanently as cinemas and the next step is that the venue’s becomes a cinema so badly in them in Hartlepool one of the first cinemas they got to start up as the town halls now it’s the town hall Music Hall I think for us for a while it was the town hall cinema yeah it just became as anymore so this is a situation where cinemas emerge as an offshoot of an existing stage population which is already pretty diverse yeah so cinema can be regarded as one element of the biodiversity so to speak yeah of stage culture in and so it’s almost come to you now and say you’re not allowed to study pantomime you just go back to them and say well that’s like going to a biologist and they’re saying you study primates you can’t study rodents even though they’re both mammals yeah no I think I might find out something about metals by studying really close relatives right because we went to see a play version of David balancing

yes Sardi’s because you know that the awful empty of the tales paper was a half term thing so it was very you know so it wasn’t pantomime thing but it was very I was just saying because write those stories been adopted for television films and Oh actually they’re being adapted for these live stage places l and I’m doing bit like compliments isn’t it a bit like a pantomime on the screen let me do them and oh my pants – brilliant know that I’ve got your attention and that’s how we talk you talked about the middle Brown was this intermedia pantomime as essentially the same thing I mean they are the perfect they use all of those different ideas and they also you know in terms of stardom they call it star some elsewhere and the hidden Tom’s mother all the materials drawn in from elsewhere and just put into this mix into this Victorian pop of conventions because obviously they have rigid conventions as well they have the good fairy in the bad fairy and they all come in from the senders and all of those conventions completely rigid that’s not seeing the transformation seen the dark scene they’re all there but they are also being created out of bits of modern culture that work for me but of course it’s that you know we’re in pantomime season comes I do not with a good fan made some arguments for one pantomime needs to be studied by a film scholar the first is pantomimes and films are really close cousins and the other one is since acknowledging that the idea of this family trees even that’s a bit contrived because a lot of media works are intermedia l– anyway yes they’re the big soup that is a pantomime contains four or five different mediums they go down I mean David Maher has made this argument so well he’s always saying there needs to be more relationship between these two studies and film studies and they need to not be tsu’tey about each other and engage in battle – away – it still gotta do empire first but not many does your heaven you just have a little time though I might try this year to write a series of blogs about pantomime just to get my head even cyberstalking you don’t get to see all the thrilling things tell me stuff so I just do just try and hold my own so your insertion of random things into our conversations is Twitter ad there’s every other thing I’m a bit scary I’ve always been scared on intermedia phenomena let’s just acknowledge that in this little nest where we’re currently talking we have a praxinoscope that’s in the scope gramophone 3-grand further yes there are little theaters from Pollux and various other places Wilson’s musical yeah we have a stereoscope viewer stereoscope viewer and with many many cards fell off yes it’s the worst they called orrery is that an actual cake is an action suppose it was that was baked by one of my students I teach it or musical and I shared them hairspray and there is the ultra clutch she did already there was little the hairdos and everything I mean that’s my five yes oh okay I’ve also got you might be music pantomime story cool and I’ve got some slipping slides here these are things I take down show to the students they are I mean when you say it a slide switch all when I was a kid the slide there’s a tiny cardboard mounted pertubation Emery wears these hand-painted very durable really quite chunky skipping there’s another very racist these mechanisms like this that permit by this being quite quite I mean I imagine that these things saying expensive and they certainly were when I first started so I think these aren’t original because they were actually willing to be reusable shopping oh yes here we go wonderful effects of Hudson’s soap and what you have a guest going it turns a I mean basically you know I’m sure you know this you know who is the great doyenne of stereoscope culture and how adays know it’s Brian May of Queen oh obsessed with service Co he produces lots of service get you stereoscope treating wrongs of not sure

there was an exhibit when we were there about Brian Knight being in – yeah 30 produces these new he produces book seduces these sets of reprints basically your Victorian stereo cards those are all AZT stereoscope get this a bit of middlebrow intermediate ii stereoscope renditions of famous paintings it’s the next Jacobite being arrested so they just know so tenderly what is this it’s a 21st century reproduction oh I think of the 19th century hand tinted stereoscope photograph of a live scene that alludes to the staging of that painting of a pre raphaelite

there’s a dog okay shove it in there hold it up so you can move this back and forth so make it work scope you a little bit broken though it is a bit broken it was my grandmother’s I think we should go to the pub quite soon it’s too big but I wouldn’t build this is always working we’re just playing thank you so much you’ve been listening to audio-visual cultures with me Paula Blair and Rochelle on our special guest Lauren snapper this episode was recorded and edited by polar bear and the music is common grind by air tone licensed under creative commons attribution 3.0 and available for download from ccmixter door work if you like the show and find its contents useful and interesting please have covered production and distribution costs with donations to a forward slash pei Blair or libera Paycom forward slash Pei Blair episodes are released every other Wednesday please rate share and subscribe on your chosen listening platform as this helps others find the show for more information visit audio-visual cultures and follow AV cultures on Twitter and Facebook thanks for listening and catch you next time


Audiovisual Cultures episode 12 – British Silent Film Festival Symposium part 1 automated transcript

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hello welcome to episode twelve of audio visual cultures the podcast exploring signed an image cultures I'm your host policy this addition as part one of the double recorded that the twenty eighteen British silent Film Festival symposium on the nineteenth and twentieth of April next week Andrew Scheer night give an overview of the symposium and I talk to some of the speakers about their work this week focuses more on the Film Festival and screenings there isn't a folk festival this year but it is G. to be held again and September twenty nineteen there was however a day of screenings at the wonderful Phoenix cinema and east Finchley later we'll be talking to film historian Jerry Turvey topic the history of the Phoenix musician Stephen horn by providing live accompaniment for silent film screenings and it was such a real traits hearing and seeing him performing an improvised score for a film he hadn't sane and I talked to Brian A. Dixon from the British Film Institute bite the festival film restoration and stupid cation firstly though I speak to RT film historian and then Stacey asked Tony Fletcher who programs much of the day of screenings in the Phoenix on the nineteenth of April the recordings were made in public so please forgive the noise of London and the back lines here's me speaking with Tony sure the thirty film the story involves cinema museum about thirty years most of my time looking at the Sundance Film sometimes now and this morning at the British silent film festivals you should really wonderful collection of films right yes and this is a lot of film festival films only shows were made when someone fills the spill the seventh on the screen services what we could transition period in Britain in nineteen twenty four nineteen twenty nine when making all the sources making over a hundred school sound films Kaplan in nineteen twenty five six seven and then they moved to Wembley is twenty percent AMPLEXOR missions today in nineteen twenty eight and can you and then make a feature document Rosen survives in nineteen twenty nine they had a fire and then the company merged with exile government German group when she gets continued what makes it expensive could still be as many many wonderful things that somebody like me I work for and the contempt learning all the time more of a %HESITATION so it was really fascinating finding well most of the films that survives in this documentary so but most of the civil rights acts of many of the folders got some some of them are popular songs of the face some of them attention there is a day to celebrate the survey will be pushing music sheets by medical knowledge right who composed as section eight twenty eight two names in fact with a big archive of his music she had a night a twenty six twenty seven maybe the foreign office he said three summer shows one in black one in the art of nine and one zero two and what they did to a twenty seven twenty eight is a recorded number of his own system so some of them today he was a kid the jazz band at the end of their American they actually paid on the Isle of man in December of nineteen twenty seven this is the reason why we have to fill and then the Coney Island six losses %HESITATION control over America they came close to prison principally because they could drink capitalism Hey eventually after this infant children the twenty nine that I came in twenty nine they tell you that losing immigration I know lots of the American jazz players couldn't get permits I had to return to medical went to Germany France hello prohibition was fine then I think he was a little bit at LAX %HESITATION so let's see if I could go back in time in some places to me that was the best film but it left us because that's when you will see it might be a fun staying back let's get twenty four ranked the second resumes with Celtic twenty one things the second will be a five seven twenty two so you can really only hear them at the right stage zing right state when they showed in the cinema please what this service is still a few bookkeeper the eldest still I think today was the one the man that we just all and I can find those references that that pairing in Britain in the years they made the phone as hell and I think it may be made in the states and that was at the county's dog photos show from nineteen twenty five so that could well be the earliest film on the program and the sound quality is very good yeah for that particular hello and it's fascinating to see the reunions because it wasn't just people talking to me the comment or conversations or just dating musical numbers there was a lot of dancing in there as well and the likes of the client that kind of thing is so you can hear the topic yeah the sales lady would have been able to the fields that Santa black balsam at the time which would of just being introduced into Britain in that time so there are actually several photo films which %HESITATION dot C. section films where dance instructor will show the audience have the doubts on fill one survived a we did show it once many years ago we Lawrence cannot sing with removal can you help us with a as he did try to do that to us is that June written by the male who is very well known musician did appear in at least one photos with them so %HESITATION you have never seen them before %HESITATION photos so eight and ten probably the best telesales and certainly one of the best by the way good I haven't shown this conference these three classes the one of the problems and he's got a mission to asking some what was that sometimes the high pitched voice of the woman does because it sounds like the screen we did a bit and there's some of that I still don't know who's singing but they were obviously is in America the photos it was an American although it may pop into focus is also trying to emulate the fight to sign of doing a little it was an attempt to collected that not that successful the more popular dry T. one census they will be shown mainly in small cinemas around the child's hand twenty six to twenty seven twenty eight probably four to five or six months from April through September the program would just be about half an hour forty five minutes it would be added to the regular sauna film program that was going on a lot of them didn't work because the sound effects but that was given to the project is asking the technicians did not have to work in an office in the sand with the hand saying old with sound right and Bill Clinton court cases against the forest phone is filled by men just want to get that money back because they were so take this is a tough in fact if the film was shown by the company sells they will normally not a problem but the problem is having other people knowing health issues that have the system has consisted of it will cost me ten question which account %HESITATION so the way it would be the consequence to their normal project this would know that see how it stacks was active the reason is taken up speed this will sound a little bit on the side of the field which they would have had to hi with the films that I spoke to last me I'm not going to get out I know a lot more than nineteen you were talking about the person yeah I mean it's somebody they certainly me in my generation aren't really aware it was very famous at the time that was the first time the show G. and I and my counselor he's very funny comedy songs again E. specialize in power these he made twelve eighteen nineteen twenty six and seven nine twenty six the only thing he famously would stop will build some of the other poems missing would not be top of the bill he was very big name as I said he did also makes a solid films in the team he made seven three refills I needed to use his immense sadness and know what what do you like being in his mid thirties and probably to see how we would have made excellent film six of the penal language makes sense investment involves some of it some action special something task of items I don't know maybe it's just a cultural difference and then charges at the time my goodness what do you mean some of them are funny but they're testing over and resent being no issue today will be thirteen correct and some of the click throughs what should the homeless with tents in mind for this when we do get through to see and also the black button down there was a reference in there which would say today he could I mean all listings on in fact there's one film that Brian would say that Brian he's done these things showing okay it's fascinating I think the maison but also I mean I think it's still important to revisit them because where we have come from and to go back there yeah yes there's a lot of time and when you go back to Northern Ireland well that's where I'm from yeah you can do some research and find out which cinemas in the I think it's shown on this well I don't know what I mean the local papers can tell the effect you know Jerry turvy who is involved in the cinema %HESITATION able to book about the Phoenix cinema is here he told me that Donald was shown here in nineteen twenty nine because when sound on film payment became popular they re issued the photo sales at twenty four frames per second so actually some of those to survive but they didn't show them here when they came out in twenty six twenty because this musical nail right to hold and they were not allowed to be shown anywhere near a musical the full after businessman to single announcer makes the sometimes you find them in six so if you went to for example Belfast the chances are you will find to mention though five people have to go to a smaller town ten miles from bell font but as the musical right and that's where less often research a new counselor with specifically on the Tyne theatre that was %HESITATION pictures I'm sure many of these kinds of phones will actually shown in Yukon yeah and the medical tools back hi developers and a twenty thirty twenty seven will still have a full and a half three research me counsel for the spill but definitely a reference to Thoreau's back in many big impresario of showing the film some wing Abadi from December twenty six through to June twenty seventh I'm not sort of thing that may be that the bigger the musical possibly he may have done a deal that it may well be that some of the doctors didn't want to be a cost effective he said if the Iraqis didn't travel to certain places in the pub circuit then show the films that shows through %HESITATION possibly stole most of those still most faith in that town the company controls yeah I also signed up for the phone is sample based on these states for the first time today one of his %HESITATION is the nine zero LOL with a string and he basically ran the resistance %HESITATION for the first three full years and then when it flew off because of trouble with the satellite being shown properly a medical is it'll slash and Jeff was Africa came in and took over the FOT changed the name to produce talking pictures which you probably have heard of said that he still can pages is actually the first phone of him under different names and he moved from Clapham will soon was shown in the weeks to Vivian van Damm you probably know ran the windmill if you can find them who is the manager of the pharmacy marketing in nineteen twenty five six and seven before he had to leave he described his old about the three three studios in not very good terms the Fulton block a lady's levels however I think because that's probably what they would use around the ground level that's when they develop the film that'll run north of that they could do it at sea is it too so you probably have and the whole time we have a grand room they probably would have had the studio and then ending in the face they would have had the Toyota since he's with the troops to develop weapons and is that a puzzle about how the food with Vera because in nineteen twenty nine Sam was shown in several in nineteen twenty five six seven and eight photo was shot in the same so this is a puzzle hello one defendant could you develop the seventeenth season same chemical solutions we know that when they were different chemistry different services provided little soul about that although the sound strip is different looks different came the closest and then in the late yeah thanks it's a terrible area so they actually do look like two different physical component thank you very much and good luck with the rest of your thanks again to Tony facades next is Andriy Sheila nice speaking with Gerry Turvey can I get your name and okay Jerry I suppose these things I pour myself a film historian and may as saying east fifth St written there pretty thorough history building give us a better something okay you stop me the basic building was erected in nineteen ten the third party that actually went bankrupt and consequently we didn't get to yeah they were hold sort of chain of cinemas around laughing says background what is interesting about the original is that once this is thanks strong the front of the he was quite different recently it was a kind of a little extra something it is a very gentle smell from consequently the rich rejected with the far right of the screen he made it clear that maybe it would have been the San Marcos river had %HESITATION now I'm in the auditorium was right and there's no prescription no fees who's back there seven dollars sure we have a front row yeah in the nineteen twenties because that was a cinema HM the fiction because there are three yeah competes in terms of their own so when you look at the advertising pressing yeah I think we should be focusing particularly the need to we also this and in the other competing I have so not only fill the office live music connectedness I've got a couple of lines state road consequently the sort of film this morning we were the first local Cinemark to combat the sun okay the major stuff like it says on the address on the side of his building yeah Los it's the shorter company he's an amazing breakfast can be shown close this place because the orchestra and the displays and live entertainment which I suspect must be reduced that's a question still hangs in Moscow that sort of stuff this is one thing is not to say what to say okay obviously the satellite is different the okay let me okay this licenses to safety the Middlesex County council was responsible for by this this is the most ready for pickup one minute sixty order hello this is calling on behalf of the city four we want to show a lot yes at the same time of course this is the second single building the oldest the big simplicity and the muscle hill the other thing means soul some of the most impressive all of the things that isn't the same number so if you look at books on the history of cinema hold on to the next six months early and you guys can fix the mess so we had to one the deadline that was given to us by six K. so owners decide to switch more than this consequently the paper that said Hey thanks for certain projects and change for her followers to hand the interior was reset sorry the decor that you see that places those war powers within the Hartlepool Mullaney who were very supportive here is the size of the city and a few years ago this model is filled with K. you should never say that they deserve to get the other transformation of course was in the back to school so much %HESITATION I think from what we have said in this design Dr back consequently they said much about the civilized focus of course was the pick of said about this country and we had lots of fans on C. of the Phoenix is really is there a story behind that as well really the Coliseum in the twenty where he says he actually said the shipment side with some the children the second big crisis in nineteen thirty eight was the first because there could be a crisis within the eight nineteen eighty four was the trough of seven are going to cut hi this is Rajib full right everywhere ironically enough so that you for the third they were big so consequently they needed stiff today will be closed out of the way we were back to being in order yeah yeah this is like everywhere else we sat eight forty six before that at the start of the set please sounded similar to another this is a great draw the young guy that was not a Jew he was allowed to go inside and he tried C. so an organization the film is to consider the distributed but they want to check the house so they had access to lab results have come from so they that was really recklessly on Harris I would love to say New Jersey Sen but never the less they have to face the fact that all this is all going to show you can you can you please suggest it may be trucks for this yeah hello to save some of what was then the impact was interesting that we face between the GAO said which was at night he Tory prime minister there was convicted last yeah we see a local trust money just a single the trust because charitable trust and from nineteen ninety five they set a buy rating conclusions about his actually being a charity and consequently you know yeah it's been the same doctor shows our house how to reach into the low the Jewish festival for example pretty soon so I have a whole lot of education because we became unique I can't trust government mandate your last decision or not we said we still thank thank you for this Saturday we have to have %HESITATION so something which I think is she was in the house three oh one I think when she was hired to John two thousand Texas we got money from her she's not to reset the system so the interior lives down the I think at the actual and the architect yeah this to the cafe yeah studying the cinema because you're always the service was %HESITATION because it became a challenge for us when we were putting me five so like the whole process is why did I hear from a lot of the time retirement is when you actually get to do the work this was a mythical took a good fifteen years ago I think when you when I first met this is accountable how may the eleventh doctor's considering whether they're taking it's it yes yeah president Clinton was an underdog when it first and quickly and in the nineteen in nineteen inches restrooms in the final phase one of the biggest forty well if it comes out anytime soon all references case study in the source the yeah on the left and the public appearances yeah someone who does seem to be thanks a lot BMC this is please hold instead it has to really be as we've been seeing is that even even what it actually stands for on the Phoenix these these let me %HESITATION numbers for ninety nine okay eighty three seven hundred remember we have expect nothing I mean when you go to other countries which have Phoenix thank you for thanks again to Terry it was really informative and so great learning more about that beautiful sent a man next Andrea nice speak T. musician Stephen horn and quite a noisy pope thank you yeah I can you know for and that's a nine twenty eight by the summer never seen it before processing credit we've been talking about it was blind and sort of program and given given the advise of the Spanish okay thank you very much in the background the voices of the people is the main cause among the he's coming out with German name by the end of yeah some of the German states some of them and serve yeah right Germany road was Frederick yeah thank you I think that kind of gets just a little bit of a when you did have a couple of screening of ever yeah today with the right tools and today which makes it is always good in the cinema sign they tend to be called the yeah strumming I had %HESITATION this this means the other thing I loading thank I he worked out with the string is as yeah cool what is the signature well I think it uses doing since I used to play out of it I've been doing everything is Philadelphia Nickelodeon but I tend to only do that if I because I am not alone it's more than the physical action in the new the dominance of another according to the time you I mean can you envision just having a I use it to the same time because my yeah when I do those I don't go to yeah three the one that struck me was nine strokes Israeli yeah you could have been doing this I think right yeah I think it's not I'm not convinced you can teach people how to thanks a lot what was the month one the difference between being a musician playing music but I for that purpose hi the engine not using your really unless you want to turn into a different the one thing yeah it's improved the music we had seen some that the second guessing health is doing a lot of not everything was the same about ten minutes and you get a sense this is exactly what kind of so this is a they did set when you stand in the dock at nine when the guys working going into Sunday what if it had cooled enough for being such a difficult one because the coding and some of it like a harmonium but it will be will be right because of the but okay this is but then by the end of during that from the ride okay yeah again any sickness the reaction does anybody create a free online one I can see with momentum I was glad I was one of the things the other than just doesn't sound the way that seems to have a single one of them was how you doing really talk about this is yeah but I think for me and use the disease I think from I think whenever someone said and then when it's time for a long finishing just I can use the search for someone and in some the usually held on the screen number three they would generally how long enough to be the first I would really it was a really excavations at thank the question is are we right we recently twenty sixteen a new printer okay using the they I was wounded is it possible to do that that is what you do is I've been doing some I started off as a I didn't come on it's going fifty one school and so I got one the whole started getting on the international circuit so yeah for the day was getting at a difficult question maintain the dons the way that but it's not just laying in the middle of the moment the thing is when you can reset the five live could it be a fight animation it's going to it's going to be this is for all the things okay right with the DVR yeah may not be ready until this most of the time one and you can with a completely original that was originally so the next one of things that at this moment it is very certainly what you're using yeah yeah when I play see the full and there's a lot that's something I usually go to the defendant if I know in advance that that's gonna maybe recorded in the minutes leading up to the so that when the young lady but that and I was playing yes it was maybe romantic entanglements in the Nick of something about the size of a segue into that and then okay moments again and so I didn't see that before I was going for something and like us we and they just right when I when I get this way just basically hanging over the what I'm looking at the film so that's probably why right because I'm more than concentration it is everything is whenever people ask twenty three because it might take some time to do something the description of having to make a decision about what service it's even more intense yeah yeah yes the government the the the the looking old man you know the moment of everything instead of something else the T. you have a rec room it is like the longest continuous we were both six Olympic apple but then the with that done today with like disproportionately so that that was but other than sometimes where is your favorite actors or anything like that my favorite film okay even though I it takes using handheld everything about the store we would and you need some music which but it seems like it's about fifteen in the second yeah HM no I am no no U. K. it gets lost New York they arrived about midnight and then they would if the new president Margaret may yeah he lives in yeah the yeah right from the do you ever get to see the city's sometimes no money get a free by the with the amount of time that they need to but some maybe one day the film one of the things we're three days see this is one of with the place of eighty one they feel thanks very I have done thanks one like this is a question the event is but it could be six months there is but that did not happen yeah yeah I had to say about it do you have any insight and I have said today that some of those shops are just wait the motion reaction mmhm the latest in the some say right now thank you click on place what's more that is the big thing we gonna fight against to a great music SA I want us to move on you have to go with the end up with music one of the things it held for review on the record the next related for about fifteen seconds it seems to me that it is speaking that's right we'll be waiting for you you can yeah cool maybe it was one second rate retention we can just have cable service a little bit lightly from this this is the customer support yeah what they thought of it is just the in general as a general and the other thing is yeah my dad without the thought that people think they can have a second sectional yeah right right one time I've seen something in contemporary the read the full right well over but what we hundreds of students and everything they do is very very nice gestures speaking and we were given the onus of yes what it is that people one thing that one can when was something acceptable for our I lived in for a second because this was the shift in coming but second fifteen minutes winding up coming second answer the second one three minutes to say that thank is that something you can do as much as it is your strength three zero three as long as it takes you back with with with someone on that point today the day of the meeting by necessarily needed to be but that Liverpool expression the meeting servicing something which is surprising expecting action place my guess do you have a website or anything I see my name's Stephen one of the few days and we're facing for the rest what did we learn and it's you know we love the flood I had to find my new York and then going straight to voicemail the I may have a week the general pretty busy but still caller from an official American yeah podcasts I'm trying to start a website all the visual cultures I think give a platform to under study those kinds of cultures and and a very broad very interested buyer sentiment converge with other media because I don't think it's yeah okay researchers one station okay these store so this is a nice area where your choice other things there weren't all different this is the first time sign up for my and your senior high scores before and somebody came to learn more I could have no no I think the more mark by signing with them in the same way a lot because I more a facial person I think signs in general and so let's take it as seriously as I'm just trying to take in some yeah one you know thank you and I think he's dead because the music was the view original lights in them all right now you have like secret cinema right it was at this line yeah which made the screening at six different performance every time so you can have the same family sizes different music I don't see the %HESITATION composable with about the night and it provides a semi flexible little with the defense and I'll see you can have the same company but if it's if it's quite nice now it's quite the days when you have to have a great thing maybe not like tronic score and it's a different from every time yeah yeah the legal unique in addition so yeah and they will always have a soft track that right it's like music the freedom to choose your own okay your favorite you some people like to do that me that would be my high scoring from humiliation receive the Giorgio Moroder with respect right around like for example so it's like having a serious humiliation the night singing the synth sound is a date I was in the original soul from the camera the %HESITATION Michael five one sort of very this has been a great cities yeah posted a new photo Michael yeah with some of them have a commission no one in the long something's going to do what they do that's cool so we will have the potential for is the one for yeah because it's been sixty the people like it maybe it's going to I think so okay thank you so much Roger and I was hi this is great it was really great to see them together so much it's time to take a as he wasn't fit him take a while and had just done this to me are improvised performance so many many thanks him again next as a recording amid the next day so the background is a bit quieter it was recorded at king's college London and it was a great pleasure to speak with Bryony Dixon from the BFI audio visual culture is the data that is explore signed an image cultures and the broadest way possible and collect all things relating in any way it's worth out K. bay and trying to be quite borderless and they've supported them boxing if things I'm also trying to press aides thanks at our understudies not really given enough attention because I'm very interested more things converge and where there's messiness in right things aren't able to define very clearly what sort of things %HESITATION converging it grossly priced on four months of things are you looking for processing so for my school with content for all of those things yeah my PhD research was up by some innovation culture and it's an island what I was trying to look for certain in post conflict society find more useful stuff more indicative sap and art galleries an experimental work that was happen and rather than conventional filmmaking so I started to broaden what he can think of is found and then you know with digital coming in I suppose that for me I'd actually I mean that's the principal reason right now and my film okay included in the lease studies in the nineties this is very hard to see yeah to really quite recently certainly in the course of my career fair fights changed absolutely amazing to see stock C. come sit in my bed fine look at failed all comments in real life %HESITATION cost money which meant the room that completely out of we want people to speak I'm scared of it yes the royal tunnel at least seventy men they access you have to start losing stuff had already been chief okay season by Dale card on which there was a view of the site that tops the collection off site and you know the stuff you know Johnson said so there's a couple of good examples one hundred and seventy pounds yeah please the if I'd gone to a sketch Monty sees see allow me the resources to get guys call eight hundred online and physical seventy percent money for these things to be three point six I was still alive yeah conference call details spot we get this big girl recently today ten thousand from the server right it's still on the line thanks a politicized curiosities yeah because I knew I could play a little with the press he's the pharmacy council should bring some TV now yes absolutely and if you think it's always been great stories T. V. now the work of the whatever it is nine just south of France streets of London yeah what the pictures so it's really fantastic fantasy you just sat there the amount of damage coming straight he would never be able to sing bass sounds and then also to the general public because %HESITATION online for free you can see the sign I realize well it's not all about the here and now I am actually here and all right is a hundred years ago as well it makes it very content free for us you can see very clearly that will have to stop yeah people J. sizzle to cycle I guess from now on people will be able to see clearance possible minority constantly copying things will be a desire for real genuine novelty that could lock bringing novel yes interesting there are still problems that come from the city spends can extend the current situation controls thousands of tiny thing like none yeah the problem solved you can use for flights in the U. K. the right to resume site or still populations zero and this is a real problem in dogs the expansion of access to film in particular is communications where I think they're slightly clearer for the written words the total fifty problems with this one the copyright laws of very strange sightings failed on the phone and so we've had to go and play for the phone so the iPhone five cannibals my CV to match the needs to show up at the time sometimes the government exemption but not facts we all pull yes that's good to hear that actually because the general public a lot of the sweet complaining why doesn't such and such organizations as the day that you know one of the speakers these restrictions okay and we're just if you haven't found yourself browsing long time the decisions and we're recently active of vehicles for you to close we would put him on the cheek %HESITATION tools which might provide about soccer right thing about film the subjects of study a service of our international business which has been for probably most senators invented the nine AM in the side of that he said was a language barrier yeah seven of these films just try to talk to the Iranians so it was very so we would like to study surely we can all these specific copyright you know as long as you like yeah that's the case to the court to deal with by the time thank it's funny how films mentions please %HESITATION I was watching %HESITATION civilizations the thing which is an update since the classic TV series alongside and you know that sort of thing all the time about all state to provide twenty three a month and you mention mention so the thing off the tech share the scope on the it's still the cousins and many ways to say than in academia fully stocked up yeah having to justify your existence all the time yeah you just want some salt I saw you today there was somebody on the licenses it's just entertainment that's just what some may face some hard life for a sign you know all of those things will come back today after I called system works thank you notes to fund which is our fridge commercial and the equipment to the point of stuff today however I am more interested they get a lot of conflicting things looking at London's nineteen twenties interesting my phone first thing than it was in nineteen twenty four this is not the greatest film the world is now provided genuine inference to look what this is and how people see the value of buildings for example thanks Karen Dalton negligence not style supporters of trying to surround the town well no additional sentencing one of the nice things is still lacking factor it's not clear if you went around a lot of things that I can't leave a message with the old stuff even the one long it is becoming which is the thing everyone should keep everything yeah not just the things that we think are important in your eye this is a very long time line and so many people yes the stuff that we would give our I. T. to say yeah so it's really important that the FAA has faced collections we need to take it to the one Salem is that old days to do this and make sure we we still at the stage where we are not you know that the jury is nine minutes for us that we can T. five cheese arrives for certain things for which room is still we still want to do some film exhibition on film a group gets on the stand in schools so with building up collections of prints now will be exhibited on the field so that people can see what that looks like a champ in terms of preservation of certain jobs for which room is indispensable so you see why it seems time points often nice get damaged you know films of my missing one frame because it's been sent from a foreign country thanks for softball title by just sending one Friday September twenty six twenty eighteen full time as a loss so we need to make time for Christmas is the one thing called the H. two eight nine and I'm sure some grueling runs away if you made her frightened fourteen rocket and then the pizza it doesn't make much sense so your time along with the film seventy six percent since may twenty freezes and it's a horrible show so what we do is to make a call to fight sexual using it a little different for alphabet which remains with the individual Lexus put it all together how we think you should hello %HESITATION just fights across the frame and then we filled it so you film a piece of digital some on the other line it's not enough for the pool for a look which is a bit of water on the ground that Sunday night and a little bit search yeah exactly Textron go without because if you do talk to each other you've seen finally yeah that's going to change the flight for instructions what we did on the nineteen sixties sure thanks for restoration rather than conservation reservations but it's so nice it's just one of those things that he wants to and to tell you the longtime preservation of Salem family still by you can stick it in the votes gates in which is great news the three most of those things the big free you can stick in that hundreds of years and it will be fine whereas the digital palette tech and software using today sixty promotes it looks as though shelf life of about eighteen months keeps moving so fast and it's also a portable time is proprietary inside hi company near Houston on the line highs that company goes surprised it's taken over by another company these things happen and we'll have the Microsoft five years ten years fifteen years to something maybe that's part of why a restroom five you know we may decline in them but actually it's really important serve hot stuff because the final film at a light in it I have to be tested that work better than others DVDs yeah I love the seventh rooms for ever know but there's still something about the tactile nature of polluting the objects and %HESITATION Syron chancellor for linear nature yeah you know what you're doing with the music beginning at nine in the middle of the road about what you see on the TV to throw some extra percent happens where a number of big brown facial laughs at the site send someone to check back for my email I don't okay the clean clothes on videotape that successfully gotten a lot of people do anything higher into early films seven weeks of gains some sensations with Hollywood in one hand yeah but there's nothing like Salem saying at thirty five millimeter projection is %HESITATION yeah there's a special tells me S. Korean air friendly minds talking a bit about your involvement with a silent film festival the symposium in Chile sign the story okay means initially %HESITATION twenty LGAs again and myself during school time Signia brands and for a few of the people who will be here today were sitting and talking without having a bit of a complaint because there have been a series of restrictions on the lease more salary cap room or something anyway we will chain something we'd seen it before so we decided to get a shot at the same time the nexus twenty lots of American academics getting up and saying oh we might as well carry specifically %HESITATION yeah Steve is anyway so we were having a bit of a grumble about actually why is it that purchase silent film has terrible terrible reputation I'm because I was working at the all kinds of time said well you know the thing is I know because I work for the state people and say hearing in the first set thanks I know that almost no one is saying these things nine personally people who have these films one night we put together a new bands and watch them so we have to arrange the medicine on time and once again made working in the film off target with a fine meal to complain I'm still we got a gang so you can put the show room right here so that's what we did the first song from first who was born in Iran and North Sea and it's right down there and then to look around a bit and I would do is we can find something happens but essentially we have almost done the job process have still choose to view the whole of professionals in my law school system line since then with all my summer job he sets out to date but now with tons of expanding out so we do the research research related to put some verses from the hearts of events and I'm getting some of the films from other places around there so the couples planning on the completion saw it's much more interesting than anything it's true that there is not a great movements like German expressionism or anything like that where you can sort of look at body of work and that's kind of thing yes it's absolutely true that the position that invested in the mall seven eight has the lower production values and make structural German film America subsequently train always treated there are some exceptions did you throw up some great acts has a seating now but if you go to school with the wrong song and it has an awful lot of interesting stuff that people don't know about his having done the basic job twenty eight six time so you don now she writes a brief to someone from my friends three pressing project sign things wonderful number three since the day we did on the plan we were just a little of a song H. Cox St screens similar is going to be in the right well we've been able to get in Raleigh thanks for sharing only days which is really useful because we were able to send them to jail the British Council it's a big thing yeah the two sides have some have somebody shopping and get up early okay my shop from reaching further this is the US which is you know I don't think it's going to take all the words for German expressionism French films at the side of the area we didn't make enough money in it it's true however this is something to do with the British not investing in the film industry we still don't yes Sir and the roles of supervisory agencies to one of our land which we should do one of these days and we can sort of cloths issue around the film thing might be the secret so why I think Wilson the bridge nine money saving needs to invest in risky ventures like the American states and I didn't need to find people together three films in the light of the Americans yeah I think in many ways families what was depicting bet people binding together anyway I am thinking of freestanding centers for documentaries and then the texting the brakes and Sanderson which is a Cisco Systems lance is just reminds me yeah the front the the small pain nine yeah exactly do not so well sometimes it's very interesting that it's very difficult for us to talk after the meeting minutes eighteen K. Jennings small scene yeah and it was only when the front some in right because I know it's real and if any NCAA broke part of my master's dissertation on pretending systems and I think it's a real tribute to him when it came time for the ceremony of the Olympics Chinese to certain people right Jennings and national discussion insurance or something the book that was based on the mining in Canada okay published at nine one nine six things on so you can get it quite easily now unless the collection of things to do with the industrial revolution Hey don Jennings cross nineteen read grappled with four people in the beginning Danny Boyle Mike side right quite twenty total file the diaries and feeds the mistake but and the films of connection between fans when I survived the juxtaposition home values rights documents of records with film documents to back order for Hey Mister Boyle thrills twenty seven months many thanks again to you Tony Jerry Stephen and Brian eight for being so informative and generous with their time the symposium is annual usually in April and the festival is bi annual usually in September and the old Sears next week will be more about the symposium I'm pleased to address and a server really fantastic papers taking I have strays that have much to tell us by the way speak operate today if you can support the podcast on Petri on dot com forward slash PP a planner that would be hugely appreciated as any money pledged goes toward sustaining and improving it a huge thank you to Andre shield for taking me to his world thanks so much for listening please join us for more of this next week