Audiovisual Cultures episode 105 – The Ticking World with Brendon Connelly automated transcript

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hello and welcome to audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts media and cultural production I am polo player and today I'm catching up with Brandon Conley he featured an episode seventy nine back in twenty twenty eight talking about aids the mystery audio drama series circles written by Brandon during the first pandemic looked online if you didn't hear that one do you go back and listen and gave circles I try Terry it's along the lines is what we did ski beach area and the mystery machine brunch B. up T. as grown up sons how to confront their repercussions of their meddling it's really good fun it's very mysterious and it's very well constructed as the sign designs Brady and so do check it all right the links for those are all in the show notes huge thanks to our fob patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures beside their supports in all of the last thing I need to be just a madwoman in the attic talking to herself so thank you so much for letting me be part of your world speaking of worlds we're going to hear about Brandon's latest project the fun to see choose your own adventure advent calendar yes that will make sense as we go three and it's cold the taking world we also go on a little bit of attention to the cinema so do you enjoy all of that and let us know what you think on our socials and those are all in this unit as well do you have fun with this Brendan Conley welcome back yeah it's very it's a hobby we spoke %HESITATION Ryan's this time last year about a year Spanky audio drama series circles which I enjoyed very much and people should go and listen Tay if they haven't already we're going to speak about it something quite different and yea thank you for working on what was she thank you would like to tell us about the taking world so what it is is a calendar and it's also a branching narrative like the brand name everybody knows to trademark brand name everybody knows just choose your own adventures to choose your own adventure books here in the U. K. to fighting fantasy books are very much of a series of ideas have been nine of gamebooks and needs of the self narratives which tend to be do you know what I've completed a bankable and she would be a if it's second class postage you do this you do that you climb a ladder that works of fiction in which the reader is presented with a series of choices at the end of different passages if you would pick the choose your own adventure book without entry was in the and then at the end they might say if you want to go on the bus with Jane go to page thirty eight if you want to stay home with Kate go to page one hundred and fourteen and as you go through a narrative comes to light and I've taken that and put it in the shape of a calendar so that each of the pops has to last the same duration and the idea is that the read to read to page each day %HESITATION and I'm not totally sure stuff to pull over there is something there but choose your own adventure choose your own adventure the idea of advent calendars and I was thinking at first but I've been kind of a little windows all you know you know I think would it be possible to sort of do a sort of a web across one of those repeat Jeez that pop that it's over bowled into something of a local pros in it so it's now a fully illustrated and each day of the month you will in fact have multiple pages and you will end up turning to the last page of the day leaving that display that you'll illustrated kind of debate for that day of December I'm taking a choice at the box okay formally speaking that's what it is but that doesn't really tell us much about what it really is I wonder if because he leave it overnight say before you go on to the next one you've got quite a while to the mullet over your choice if you could change your minds this is interesting this is a different spin on this what I remember as a kid living check my family's roots or chest where if you've got your hands still on the case you can take the move back I look if you haven't removed you'll have to the beach you can dial it way back and I suppose the house rule there might be as long as you have it towed to the page you have a major choice yet but the moment you turn the pages there's no going back but everybody knows with each game books that you keep your father may face you don't like the passage into everybody go yourself this is common practice to readers and I think that's something interesting about them already because instead of giving you a linear narrative in which things unfold you do this sort of way of cheating I suppose a prince of peace so that's a parallel diverging Pasti I was placed in the system you're aware of that being parallel and divergent paths because you being off at them you get some sense of what they owe if you cheat not that I'm encouraging J. tank I will say no to give too much away %HESITATION deflate this once I would like to think that you could put it away and come back to it next year hang on the wall take different paths make for different choices and you know what if you don't want to play so we will play like a pro we want to put all the one day I'm not going to stop you but it is designed to facilitate day by day place she spent twenty five days in this world and the world that you mentioned what kind of world is this because it's not quite our world it's a little bit different this net it's really the all world it might look like it it still says it was opened %HESITATION tional mole also been trusted in these ideas of of north we think of cold and snow and Aurora borealis in the north star and these cultural ideas that speak into things like Philip Pullman's books or even on the air and and it seems to be a sort of a non denominational fantasy of winter in okay is an exploration of ideas of north literally after I mean literally %HESITATION bordering Iraq and exploring these ideas of dental so I've taken things from fables of taking things for folklore and of course having new and particular specific cabinet and decide if you go into it the mole some of the particulars of this fantasy world help you navigate to it a little bit four one vote but whether expressing about spoiling anything you'll start to recognize tubs and things like that so for example if we were to go pick up we would go to a bookstore with but pick up ten fantasy novels and bring them home we still have some sort of sense of what Google play might be right but each of those will go play might be something slightly different so %HESITATION that would complete does not appear in that checking will believe it it would mean a particular thing it would be if you know you'll get better idea of what it Killy beings in this world is the narrative goes on so yes it's it's over designed five two zero so does the oaks so if I trick of taking it for granted that you know what these words are so you're kind of them enough times that state or let you do that well it's a it's a full immersion I think it's the it's the policy that so this did not open world and and it begins with the explorer and the reader who is is not in any way the following bill described you imagine them as yourself %HESITATION whoever you wish wishes to be exploring them all and they hear ticking as they go to investigate is taking and the story is driven by that I don't know each other and I'm Kyra C. close to giving away some things that might might affect people's choices either it won't take but a self a virtue of this format ready that also so things can be left a big US Straley when I say you to somebody I don't want to impose any notion of gender or age were %HESITATION of race or ethnicity even background this person could literally be anybody and I think that became a bit proposal into writing because I so I think you what what what if it's a person it would form of disability really and I don't want them to sort of take for granted that you know this this is risking a log me your stories that try to be divested available so many things and it kind of becomes impossible to appoint to be old old things so I suppose in a sense there are some limitations on who the characters because they need to be someone who couldn't enact toll of the choices and sometimes I suppose it comes down to you're making a choice between them being let's just say positive or negative and the choice you may the fight to the L. but the in reality %HESITATION Mary actually should someone could make a lot of the situations of our limit the number six a five this is dealt a mile say this calendar pretty chunky but there are limited choices are available to be sent I had to wake up to the fact that some of the choices by physically but also sold behavior related to the explorer playa reader to choose would create some still aren't raised to what the character is but I didn't want those to be along normal lines all lubricated %HESITATION presumptive representation Rainey yes eight I noticed that you very kindly sent me a bit of a preview in early drafts well the first few pages really of an earlier drafts so I've got a good sense of that will anyone they M. use the protagonists asset and carpenter well there is there is no sense of gender or %HESITATION what they might look like yeah it's just a very blank right you're talking to a person and a lot yes and I appreciate the products they are I really like fast I think that's a very thoughtful decision one thing needed though it that isn't so kind is that you've left me at a very exciting point where I'm going right well this is that this is just check an off night I don't know what happens next so you're still not going you've come to life story I was once a Askey the illustrations are so important I kind of race three just reading the tax on a race now we need to actually take a moment said X. ray these really gorgeous illustrations that are with each paying it's because I think there's information and RMI on the right line start with that yeah so this is a big subject actually well I think first things about the illustration of the bite by Evans who is tremendous early in development we looked at a few different styles the what we decided to go with it and the one that Myers executed his stupid spotted really in a sense by this adventure was to keep the skeptical to bring one man said it's just a sort of a strong sense of a journal or critical care which applies it to the calendar for my business over a little being kept to the images it is quite right that actually to a lesser greater stand with different images there is information in the averages that should reveal more about this world and depending on how you interpret it includes some of the choices you right now I'm going to say there's a right or a wrong choice in the enemies can give you a clue to the right choice I don't think that's actually quite raw eat again it would spoil too much to get too far into that this study things in the images that can be reflected in the Poland quite literally interpreted I'd say yes so you've seen something I'm curious what did you say that you thought might constitute a %HESITATION extreme formation in the images or clip of some description I'm not sure much to say I can cut decide if this gives too much away but there's a moment where the venture is in one of the choices walking on ice and see something in the ice right right that's all right to say for you can say that I won't say what it is but I just feel that there might be some idea of what could be going on the bigger picture of what could be going on I get a feeling from a or it could be just a a total deflection or something I don't know but their status so that image was very interesting if you know the one I'm talking about I know exactly the image you're talking about I think that some of the images to trading interpretable clues the images nothing medically relevant and some of the images of the which means that sometimes you be presented with a choice where you can reflect on any sort of everybody say well I I think I learned that I'm going to make this choice the other times I think which is %HESITATION digging down to what's below the surface what will really are subtext is priced too strong a word for what's fundamentally a alike adventure story really but yeah there are ideas in the images and I think what you are speaking to that is a sense of now that you've seen that image something that's going on takes on an extra level of meaning for you and how do you not seeing it then it wouldn't but you may have seen something else that would create a different so that's what we're still playing with that really shows some of the images adds levels of official story interpretation and some might influence choices I'm thinking it as well in terms of maybe the idea of time travel and the paths not taken I thank you she said you know you can go back and you can play it again and then you can take the past that you didn't take before so it feels a bit time traveling if you think about it in those terms %HESITATION that's probably just me overloading on sci fi at the moment well put dates of the pages certainly leads to the use of associations as much as anything else yeah I mean you know what thinks of doc brown's diagram of the chalkboard legs during open gym and to talk a little about how these plans I've got a flow chart that looks like a very complicated but I should have done really this is a tree you start a single point in any partisan approaches in it brunches and he noted that the multi verse model this notion of power all time lines is exactly that's right its choices %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION interactions create in %HESITATION tentative actually is so yeah I think because you didn't change your adventure books is is %HESITATION wasting all right D. is all what could you be but I think because what's unique about our Victrola there as opposed to a calendar is a calendar will take several years to come around again Intel eight states line up with the day each but as long as we keep the same number of days in December which I suspect for quite some time will be doing that it's ideally useful you know there's no reference to what I did we cure upside so in a sense it's it's a trip you can take I nearly totally within its design it's very much reusable nothing gets told %HESITATION brick and though it sort of does encourage you to write things down I'll take notes Jordy do your own sketches you don't have to do that on the calendar itself only interested on a sketch book or not so it remains intact ready and that's not necessarily faster if you know you don't have to adhere to the same question calendar or anything it's just it's own story and it's just happening to safely yes yeah I think it's just this idea of Knowles I think will be the American TV shows are they say holiday special and that's over the object to the word Christmas of the and I don't mean this in any way reflect poor people with Facebook the word Christmas has a lot of secular power as well right I mean it means a lot to people who don't celebrate asked Christians it's under the word Christmas doesn't appear anywhere else the notion that we have a window when the festival you know what I mean this in a way that is supportive of also buttresses this Christine Christmas it's not undermining not because of us right sorry there is still you know it's Christmas is tough I've been in effect one of the early pieces of research I I did into this we're looking into who like have it kind of does why they got them what they did with them and you know because there hasn't been one like this I think people like the idea of ritual having something to do every day and I think a lot of people just like getting a little chocolate for the event calendar right looking for million I would was like a little toys and and chocolate and this does not contain chocolate I'm afraid Zacks but the only every day there is something there for you and you know the original ideas I should do it was going to be no text shares of of small images and we you know we'll come on to something much bigger and I think the difference is but they're small images it didn't feel like you were being given much of the day you know Meyer myself well people to to enjoy each day you find out we also to what would happen is what would happen okay the old time narrative book is what's going to happen right that's what Powell is every story what happens next and this cheap way to get steaks did something about it is if it's in the hands of the read %HESITATION Explora so so their actions do have repercussions so immediately straight away there is some interest in what what's gonna happen because I've made this choice every day does deliver that but every day we deliver at least one I get noticed but I think at least one of my images and I'd like to think the best you haven't seen the best yet they come to that later this summer some things to to move to old time the story starts to click into place and you get old the rewards of a story I'm one of those things are quite keen to do all of us to think about even though it's brought Jake how can I make sure that these stories help us have a structure that folks suffering to people it follows I think conventional narrative practice of a story with a beginning a middle and something in the middle change you shift your perspective significantly and as you get towards the end things seem to be more Fulton the hope goes out of the picture a little bit you can rally round and round resulting check quite a sort of a you know that there's a there's a story struck J. that is familiar from thousands of years of of stories he doesn't want the from that because you're making these choices enter the things always quite adamant that it was going to do the job so that it fits into a twenty five days for events to the metal part of you you know you don't reach a dead end of a seven eight inch cock there are security venture books for your choice it might take you four passages data so much that you fifty four passages in here you're moving for twenty five days no the way twenty five pages but twenty five days also you know descent so the story unfolding it's not stop stop it's going to flow and it's not just a broken chair the event because I truly don't see our big should anyway would you like to receive updates thanks and special offers straight to your inbox and visit audio visual cultures tower presto com to sign up to our mailing list a couple things it really strikes me is that it is on paper it's a physical calendar it's not digital the choices I mean so many of us have had to spend a lot of our lives the past couple of years on our computers so it feels quite refreshing that it almost feels like part of their resistance against the digital and a sense there's lots and then the feeling of them being drawings there's almost a life in the states here being taken on that journey and the choices that you have to make you know your your autonomous to a degree and the story that you're not a passive reader or consumer you are an active agent and the story and I think those are sayings yeah that really stand out for me about this project they know this is a shade light is actually because to be to be the most thing in case you would do things like take notes and that would be a physical access if you do keep a note pad and I mean it does ask you to keep up so again very simply the start you told a few items you have the %HESITATION infantry unless you go through the store you will lose on the choir of right to set the my simple level keeping a record of well I have a small lamb well I I you know I I'm carrying this style the of a not to spoil it I need to objecting counted but you keep the title of those adults can influence the choices that are available to you at different points so for example if you got a big cocaine to come across a big gulp padlock you can unlock it and if you don't you can help so at the most basic level yes you're actually do a physical exam but there are other things you may wish to recording right down old drawl at various points you know I don't know if it's necessarily resistance to digital through and through because every bit of me that thinks of an old engine won't stay stitch thing then they should have and that sort of one of the big debates I think you made you're very much at the moment so compare this to set of hours I will include film shouldn't be getting released hello to mediate Lee what is this available for reaming sentiments in cinema and it's like in a sentence of a former democratic action really there are people who could bill would choose to go to the cinema and I think if cinema construct and I love shimmer bubble and I love it bubble ass but haven't been since before the pandemic and I'm not totally sure about not to hurry back if CinemaCon exist and survive on its own terms it doesn't have a god given right to no I don't thank I find it very difficult to believe that cinemas will close I never read you as low as somebody once said it must be a problem well they may become expensive they may become prohibitively expensive one thinks of how much it can cost to go to the state that sometimes but if maybe they've made with super academic symbolic because well just remember that should both does the keep much of the ticket price portion of told Mike to be given away to the distributor so let's just say that economically film exists to be on streaming services and in terms of its income the seminars cherry on top then cinema can be priced Filippi Philippians still so in my mind if audiences will to stay home and watch a film on on Netflix that's great that's fantastic that's not to say they should be told to it same time being to you know we're living in a in characters of Poland and we're gonna play by any of those folks are going to really which we can play by any of them but we are going to play by the rules then you know I want James Bond hi now so I've got to stay away it's just it's an army infantry factor but %HESITATION well I would love to stay home %HESITATION a very large number of films at home rather than in cinema the calls cinema is not too suitable presentation standards at the moment %HESITATION balls and I'm having to step to the projection was often but I'll concede to unruly cinemas to go learn the hard way that they're going to do this stuff right to survive then they gonna have to just learn the hard way right but it was a race to the ball %HESITATION instead of us I think greatly and it should be just yet so we get a margin in the Lenovo tale of things like secret cinema we got to watch them I'm checking on people being underpaid and exploited stress optical was playing in disruptive about we projected film being played through office because it wouldn't fit in somewhere also on you know I don't want to go to the cinema ownership on people eating eating their meals in the cinema listen up with anything off a technician was making the wrong choices what it really needs to do is it really needs to present a vast array of films or suitable array of films present it perfectly and affordable price stamp dental people talking using the funds for the film I mean it's really that simple and here we are talking about and I think hello Joe somehow I've ported around today no I haven't but I think the idea is just the same for me if people do it is calendar the dates for long term I think I'm going to probably try to find some way to make that happen I actually ate even if it was a print your own version of it or something I think it's conceived as a physical October it's intended to be sure hangs on the wall you cannot concede there couple thoughts that you think about your choices I think if they think I'm not expecting to be able to sit right it is kind of the striking a gym for an hour every day that's it you know show a raffle or full to read on every page you get the next step is that we get an image you reflect upon it that's it it requires a bit more engagement the popping a chuckle but any amount but you're not reading a book about a truck from another guy but it's nice I think that it is basically a and it has to function if only you would think the separatist but also it was lovely pictures just growing up the area responsible for money this except it is supposed to be a sort of a part time companion then I think it one of the things I often fall but this was about casual gamers playing on mobile phones and help you get on the bus you get three minute and I'm quite a couple play some of the census resigned because they come from why you come to it the convenience fee on the day you enjoy it for a moment and then did you but if it's not like sitting down for three hours to try to plow through the next %HESITATION legend of Zelda game or something like it takes a different space you know it was life I think really I like the idea that you can't get away with here if you do Christmas decorations for example you could pack it away with your Christmas decorations and reuse it year after year after year the way we probably did too and when we were younger he had your regular ornaments and your decorations and everything Sir calendars I remember from when I was a kids that didn't have chocolate on them but it is you have you opened a nice picture every day and that sort of thing so I quite like that idea if it that it's not just this disposable saying full of plastic and it's going into a landfill it can be something that can be passed on actually maybe China family and people can do it together or they can do it on their own you know it's a really lovely idea I think it's a deliberately titlist choices in the in the soap setting in the in the time it's not top culinary delight I don't think this would have been impossible twenty thirty forty years ago to see the same story told in a similar way and the forward I think it's going to where I live so I would like to think that people would get more than one run through this in the east you know it does invite you to want to find out what might have happened this is Ted I'm not stopping anyone second on December the festive during every day for a month because I know it but it's designed to facilitate one day at a time December after December to December and I was placed in a way it's quite nostalgic and that's quite a nostalgic practice and I think the idea of the soul of a seasonal stories quite nostalgic anyway %HESITATION you know evoked nine year old the snow queen %HESITATION or things like that when we were talking about this idea of a of a north before being on the tongue with we've adopted it doesn't fit with that same so nostalgic sense of one of one right this Locri nor had the sickening read to them as a as a child and I think it's a functionalized quite deliberate eventually the same ideas I think that brings to mind a point it's not aimed at young reading age per se but they're reasonable age for less if you want to save your child and make each choice is with them it was definitely perfectly fine I think I think one will compare the price and it just over a Y. a level of price but the subject matter is much more suitable age appropriate one of the interesting things about making something like this one of the challenges in making something like this was how do you make it not only satisfying now how do you give the suggestion that the satisfaction to be had from doing a game how do you let people know right you prove to yourself that suspects did twice by doing it twice how do you have any kids that's just the one that what I think quite pull in branching narratives generally is to make the choice is filled out I've got white before you take the so when you're presented with a push to get some sense of of white and I think most stores telling her to read them in the first sections right so if you're reading a another whole police over the local you'll read it in the first chapter so the first few days of the S. should teach you in some sense that there is white two big decisions and decisions to stop feeling like I've got my story Poland's before you make them and then delivering on on that yeah I took down the line okay I think it's important to note Michael of the repercussions of media you know it's not a series of what I did that to Morrow ninety tomorrow it's not the choice I make sure they can have repercussions at any point during the remainder of the of the narrative and as long as it ties back in their system the strong narrative thread to the calls of the fact already clear that it really pays off of the stakes are established by the choice of the coast you know in it here we go we're talking about and I have a challenge that I have to keep reminding myself that the H. first and foremost it's supposed to be really but if the choice is also a good topic for it but I think it would be much less as far yes there are choices that are presented certainly and then if there are any part that I've seen so far that seems that they're not maybe that he jailed but then a couple of days later you go home okay it is that idea of right okay maybe I need to just take more time to think Siri my decision so you even have a choice and how you make your choices are you going to just go right and she had to flee this is what I'm deciding and that's what I'm saying and no deliberation or are you going said maybe there's a correct if you're a couple of unions you go right if we do that what if something like this happens Sir you know see it go off and then you can have your own tendencies that you come up with S. and maybe that says up it up by a high my brain works I'm the sort of person who does that anyway and I think it be a nice idea if there's anyone he hasn't got such near divergence as a nice idea for you to try something like this to show you what it's like to have a brand like that where you're going this is a network of all the stuff that could possibly happen in the next ten years well I think you're speaking to help by bright but also maybe in the sense that this is that it is active I thought this is that right latest bringing other people into this though world view a few years ago I wrote a feature film screenplay which contains a murder mystery plot and when I was giving it to readers to get nights early all I gave them a in installments and the reason I gave that to them in installments it's H. at these points I wanted somebody that they didn't know what was coming ahead but I needed to take the temperature what they thought was coming ahead because particularly with a murder mystery %HESITATION particular many fold Mr assuming that hangs on a full of twist you need to know that you've established people's preconceptions correct me anything currently that you've tricked them into making the right assumptions and if I gave them the whole thing they might reflect on on the internet or TV in a way that isn't particularly accurate to their experience as like going through it but by stopping them by PH ng that reaction a each of these points I got quite clear result which clues were too obvious which clicks with no obvious enough and I hope each of calibrate so phone sections with told really I don't suppose that was as of a diagnostic tool for for that has no relationship with this so it does have a clear relationship how people really do experience a product you all thinking wrote are you watching a feature film but you don't stop and necessary this guy right here I am we were talking about streaming video I think actually props I have as much below than it did in the past people post things maybe didn't have a toll from where IT record actually talk for a big narratives at the moment really well just look all ready to roll the ball to look at things like Westworld deconstructing whether plot might be going on or what's going to happen and I think a lot of TV series even though they are delivered for once there is a tie viewing at the moment to encourage ourselves discussion between between episodes I suppose in a way this day by day shares of Troy you should still does enable us to act upon they still favors the thought surely but it seemed to me well I learned most of all from giving people sections of this the screenplay to raid a time was actually like Sharon bag January before getting things that they full earlier all good move dogs totally their tear protection and lost a connection to the to the area once and I'm very interested to see however the full twenty five days of the taking world how connected people remain to what the world looks like from what the story seems to be the first five days as opposed to the next ten days as opposed to ten days off the bat because things do change it's part of the former you get to stop and reflect on what way you are and do you think there's a is there a way that you can get feedback from people he are starting to use sets and is there an online presence for the calendar at the moment it just has a couple of social media accounts are run by may %HESITATION wondering how I'm going to to engage more I think one of the things are mostly people to keep a sketch pad or night Patton I think they're taking notes which is very interesting because I couldn't do all the courage of the sketch to a soft credit there %HESITATION so image tips over budget no it would be so powerful images to what was done so instead of sketching the element of the data she strolled maybe do another one also I think that might be quite an interesting thing to say because a lot of this is I think it's true full illustrated stories ready and that the allowable happens elicited near starvation hi Sir it's a it's like it's like trying to depict a scene from a movie one frame from from a movie so I think that if people to keep social Rachael dislike Karlovy actually fascinating to see it but for me the most imposing is that they just enjoy the way that a dangerous with it really as much as I'd like to see what it is I think this is the raise the ticket world I absolutely would love to see any notes or images you crave from going through but really the important thing is not me saying that but the act of making them in the enjoyment that comes up making the yeah that's it it just occurs to me it might be quite fun for people to come up with a drawing or some impression of what their explorer looks like because they necessarily have to be a human and if he or if you choose to be human activity are quite cartoony looking human and all sorts of things he could go quite creative with that I think would be quite fun I think so I think so and even even the first page not to give anything away introduces another character who is not vision I like I imagine and hope that the rate all manner of things for the character yeah okay fine so I think that the big important question is where is this going to be available where can people get a copy of the taking rounds calendar so we shopped around to try to find a publisher for this people public religious were not interested because there's nothing else like it so maybe in the future will be able to walk into a branch of big bookshop will department store here picking up at the moment we self publish and you have to buy it from us directly so we set up an Etsy shop and all of the links are available through a Twitter account called the taking world so if you gotta act to taking world you could see some images you can find some links you can engage with us and perhaps even get some hands and we can direct you to where where you can order the ticking modem we will post it to you as I said before I'm interested in seeing if people want some some digital version of this and if they do then I'll try to find a way to make that possible but first and foremost there will be here hopefully be springing up people's bulls this December and that's the idea that we've got all physical copies in hand that quite a substantial its job after you pick up its overthrow bleak calendar you get some so said that the court which speaking really but there's a bit more depth to this but it is designed to comfortably and happily hang on then I will double or however you want that's the picture book I would be willing to spend it it has a calendar binding so it hangs up right if you will just sitting on the table top or any other way than the network works tonight what I will exchange at a stage of people looking to buy this internationally than me fast because %HESITATION %HESITATION international prestige times really bad at the moment share specially %HESITATION yeah well I will get all of the relevant links and show notes for our for this is going to pay and shared on our socials as well so people can easily find those thanks thank you I must say Brandon as well I do appreciate because it you are not already interesting times in their earlier up eight the state of sentiment today and I just appreciate that your thoughts on months because I haven't really talked to anybody about that kind of saying and I think we're of one mind it's a lot of those issues so I just wanted to put that right there because it's not really something I've managed to discuss with anybody it just hasn't come up before so a depreciate am making those analogies to silence right I feel like he had something to get off your chest air so I'm glad you feel like you should see that here I spent twenty years writing about film as a fellow journalist if I'm old enough I spent twenty years doing it so more or less that's my job and it seems like for most of the time we were on the cusp of a revolution so access to films hi I was gonna become more more possible and several times in the past it seems like films TV agents distributors were ridiculous trying to S. and of course I'm so catalyzed into doing a lot more during the pandemic many still explore tree and and then Joe models that works I haven't quite lined up but the one thing I found quite interesting about this was the decision to pull the green light from its original cinema release date Craig hello for role in the U. K. O. D. J.'s about input from from cinemas and they're like what's going on what's going on and then they will I know if you're straight to streaming %HESITATION because the rumors going on okay stretch streaming people quite cross or frustrated about that because hello what happened when the film was then released simultaneously in cinemas and on streaming is that the majority of these people would kick up a fuss force down streaming anyway in that don't quite understand what people still are they need to be held hostage to the cinema to go to the cinema you are available to go to the cinema %HESITATION you don't if you don't really what do you need all of our bodies removed I don't understand the psychology of it I think that's what we're really dealing with business open audience assistant mark dominant Cinemark preferable it's preferable in so many ways but is not functional at the moment yeah I I getting involved white but largely because British side but %HESITATION if people want to go to the cinema they should just go to the cinema really it's not simple Ribbentrop make everybody else go to the cinema I don't understand the logic but anyway yes definitely something frustrate me and as somebody who %HESITATION shielded from the pandemic image has a degenerative lung condition is quite concerned about people in in a similar position of people who don't have a lot of my the field of the option to pull waste they time they treat it like a different class of audience but they yeah yeah in my will prevail even if they all close down but I would open again I guarantee it yeah because it offers a totally different experience but I agree with some of the points she made our day or that I just have such sensitive hearings that count cope with other people's noise when I'm trying to be immersed in a film right and that was a real problem for me I wasn't going to the cinema as much anymore before the pandemic partly because of that I just couldn't cope with people have an account chapter in a quiet place or you know %HESITATION ready mountains right popcorn during really inappropriate serious films you have to stop stuff like that I have is other people's behaviors I was really struggling with as well as how much of this call thank you for all of those reasons I mean I have felt quite bad for not wanting to go back anyway and cinemas a grade that is similar to a a it's a great love of my life you absolutely should not yeah yeah you should know it's it's a disservice to a string of religious imagery for dental delivering what they should in the nineteen nineties I programmed films or cinema for a while and I put some silent films of the program well I mean actually silent no I'm going to buy music but genuinely sorry I love simple jeans if did not know what today they didn't know I was just shocked they just couldn't cope with it and this was audiences are what what Michael enough traction among you know the best night of the structure for trouble this is not an obscure or difficult film this is incredibly successful crowd pleasing fell but for the fact that it doesn't have conventional soundtrack in a sense in fact we played the treaty silently and the audience couldn't shut up and I don't know what it is and there's some sort of conditioning towards towards noise I think maybe maybe it's intuitive all I can sit home and watch a watch a film we're not talking to anybody either full of so I don't quite know what people when when there's multimillionaire other people there who made an effort to make money or toe to watch a film as it was intended between cultures shut the hell up you know I don't know really sure somebody go sit in the back row of but in a limited pre or something you wouldn't expect them to be called in eating popcorn quote ballet yeah it's really not the coach but it does light pollution is much simpler so much because right now some of the cameras and things like that phone companies well it's good to have a rerun tonight he sings and and to scare there well that does you broaching or two for you we've brought stuff into a completely different poker well I love it up and then it's just so lovely to speak to you again %HESITATION I always really enjoy our time together and it feels like you're an October regular fast becoming so you're welcome back anytime this time this year that a whole new thing in the completely different medium I think I think that's my my ambition pullers to talk to you once a year about something in a completely different medium that's a snake at Dale happy with that well thank you so much it's been great Brendan thanks

Audiovisual Cultures 100 – Audio Production with Beau L’Amour automated transcript

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this is audiovisual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and cultural production with me paula blair visit forward slash av cultures to find out more and to join the pod well hello it’s great to be with you for another audio visual cultures i’m paula blair and we’re looking mainly today audio production and we might get into some other areas with my very special guest beau lamour i am really excited bo to have you on the show today and you to hear all about your amazing career that you’re having and have had and will continue to have in many different areas um but but i think most uh most prominently in audio drama production um so boa very warm welcome to you thank you very much so how are you doing today are you having a hot one over in la today it’s gonna get there it was it was pretty it was pretty warm here where where i am yesterday about 90. so uh that’s not bad it has to get i grew up in the uh when i was very young i spent a lot of time in the um coachella valley down in palm springs so it takes a lot of heat to make me unhappy okay that’s really cool to know um brilliant well thank you so much for for joining me today and we’ve got quite a big time difference so i’m really grateful for you accommodating that as well um so bo would you be happy to give us a bit of an overview on your work so far your career because you’ve done loads of different things but would you be happy to just give us a few pointers um i started out wanting to be a filmmaker um i went to the california institute of the arts i studied film uh with alexander mckendrick who is a uh uh you know a scotsman and uh was a terrific teacher a bit hard to take personally but he was uh he was an amazing amazing teacher and so he sort of he sort of gave me a grounding in traditional traditional film and i also studied with there with ed emsweller who was actually the man who invented um digital cinema he did the first piece of digital animation ever in the world and um and so uh i got out of cal arts i went to work in the film business i have worked intermittently in the film business over over many years um in the mid-1980s this is a few years after i got out of school uh then i have to back up a little bit my father is uh at least in the united states a very well-known novelist he passed away about 30 years ago but he wrote 90 novels and about 200 short stories and in the mid 1980s when he was still alive uh his publisher bantam books which is now penguin random house started a program of doing audio publishing and dad was always very popular and uh bantam like to kind of practice on things or experiment utilizing his work and his fan base because they always knew they wouldn’t fail too horribly um if they if they went out to those fans they would get a good trial run on whatever they did and so they decided they wanted to start with their audio publishing program um using his material and he was a little bit reticent and they wanted to start small so they wanted to start with short stories and he sort of said well my old short stories are not maybe not my best foot forward and uh what do you think if we created a little more production value than just that and did them like uh like old-time radio drama and they liked that idea and we went through a certain amount of teething problems when they first started off they were just going to take a story and being a publisher they were very literal about their literature and they just wanted to take a story and uh you know take each line from the story and assign a character’s line you know to that character and then any narration was assigned to the narrator and they did a couple of those as sort of a beta test and when my father heard them he wasn’t very happy with it he came to me and he said you know i don’t think they’ve got very good actors and would you go find out go to new york find out what’s going on see if you can get better actors well i went to new york and i found out what was going on and um i realized that the actors were terrific i mean a lot of them are people that you see in movies every day these days you know they were just starting their career in those days doing uh broadway or advertising or whatever and they would come in and do our our shows but what was happening was is the the people who are doing it at the order of of the publisher were just transcribing the story and prose is not drama and so we had to create you know we had to create scripts with scenes that actors could play they could actually dig their teeth into and do their job in prose if you write every line of dialogue it’s incredibly boring um on the other hand in drama you have to have every line of dialogue because the actor sort of stair steps their way into their dramatic performance their their the moments build based on what the lines and the intentions are and so uh i started writing scripts and i went out to ucla and a couple of other theater groups around los angeles and i collected a kind of a cadre of writers and uh we we all started creating audio scripts which none of us really knew how to do we were all film and theater people and and so we we kind of figured it out as we went along and ultimately we did about 60 plus um dramatized audios the early ones we did were about an hour so there were 60 page scripts that ran ran an hour we produced six of those a year for quite a few years and uh then the program slowly started scaling down but as it did i loving to do it produced a few more shows that were uh two and three hours long and were when i we did those especially the early shows we did them in a very kind of old-time radio format so the actors were all there at the same time the show was recorded pretty much in order there was a sound effects man who came in with a whole bunch of great old vintage sort of sound effects props and he had he had this vest that he had all kinds of stuff hanging from and he used coconuts for horse hooves and he was quite good at it they were it was remarkably convincing sometimes and um and all that stuff was recorded all at the same time and then it was cut uh you know quite because a lot of it was on one track you couldn’t do an awful lot of editing and in a scene there might be two or three edits sort of jumping from one take or another that were one was better than another and um and then throughout that program and definitely those last two long shows um i produced some shows with my own group of people on the west coast and we worked very much more like a film and this is more of what we’ll be talking about as we go along um we worked much more like a film production so uh every actor had their own track we did a lot of cutting the sound effects were all done in post-production and generally in the in the field was really you know with the real things and um and so it was much more like doing the uh the post-production on a movie because that’s what we knew how to do and um and so the last show that we did was in 2015. it was called the diamond of giroux and uh i i don’t know that they’ll be um anymore i’ve kind of moved on to other things but i’m more than happy to tell anyone anything i know at any time brilliant that’s amazing thank you yeah it’s really fascinating i was reading on the website to say uh you know that background of um getting started from your father’s work that’s just so fascinating um and either just eventually there becomes a blend when you’re editing so much to the extent that you’re actually becoming a co-author and you how was that experience i mean it must have been a lot to carry personally but also you know um you know professionally what’s that done for you as well do you think well particularly doing this in the audio was just an amazing training ground um and it it allowed me to look at a story and kind of what i i’m an old hot rodder so i say like lift up the hood and see what’s see what’s actually underneath underneath there and you know sometimes a story is uh not necessarily what the audience or the author thinks it is the wonderful thing about pros is that everybody experiences it’s just code you know it’s just letters of the alphabet and everyone experiences it differently um i’ve even caught myself i this is a remarkable thing about reading prose but i’m going to use an example about script writing i’ve even caught myself working on movie scripts where i realized that in my imagination a character entered a building that looked one way but when they were exiting in the building it looked a different way in my imagination this isn’t really coming across in the script but i would catch myself doing that and i’ll go oh my gosh you know if i’m doing that with my own work how in the world are different people taking prose writing and interpreting it differently and so the wonderful thing about reading a novel or a short story is you the reader turn it into the ultimate experience for you those characters look and act the way that your subconscious would like them to those locations look the way your subconscious would like them to and as soon as you start taking that stuff more literally so the next step literally would be like an audio drama the step after that would be a movie so in one where you hear it the other one where you hear it and see it and the director and everybody engaged in the production um starts locking down what those imaginary experiences are that changes the story quite a bit for a lot of people and of course successful filmmakers successful directors successful writers in those other areas the reason they’re successful is they find a way of creating the thing that is most palatable to most people when they interpret that experience um and so you know when you lift up the hood on a story it’s um i was working on a a mini series adaptation for one of my dad’s novels that was never made but it i it had been this wonderful adventure story kind of kipling-esque of a young kid in the american west and he eventually goes to europe and then comes home it was a wonderful story but i realized it starts off with his mother abandoning him his mother is a prostitute in the west and she abandons him to sort of seek her fortune in other things she can’t have a kid hanging around okay and he’s he’s fobbed off on this gambler who becomes sort of a pseudo father for him and later it turns out that his his real father has left him some things and by the end of the story the mother who abandoned him is now relatively wealthy and successful and but she’s trying to get this stuff that the father left him from him and the gambler um is a man who’s doesn’t trust anyone and he has only very limited relationships with women and things like this and i i just realized oh my god this is all about the relationship of the women this is all about the impact of all of these different kinds of women on these on these people and um ultimately the young hero meets this woman who’s very very dynamic and a little bit of a tomboy you know she’s exactly the opposite of her kind of of his kind of femme fatale mother and um i don’t think my father ever realized that it was all about sort of looking at all these different incarnations of what a female character could be but that’s what it is and you don’t really have a choice on the first page his mother abandons him okay it’s gonna be about his mother okay you know it’s just that’s it and um and so you when you start taking what’s in a story uh literally and like instead of like looking at the individual characters in the individual sentences if you take the individual individual actions seriously and take them as the code um which is what you have to do in drama um it definitely leads you to think about stories in a different way that’s so fascinating um just those the the machinations of storytelling like um how those how you see how the same story then crosses different media that’s really fascinating when you start to adapt it so it’s really interesting that you’re talking about realizing what the story actually is not just the narrative not just the plot but what the story is and what story is being told but then it’s translating it across you know from a novel to as a teleplay you uh an audio production that sort of thing so you must have tremendous experience now in that adaptation process and um is that something you’d like to talk about a bit as well you know just um absolutely i mean i certainly haven’t done this as much as some you know hopefully you’ll be able to recruit some wonderful executive producer you know for television or something like that and get somebody who’s really had an experience you know had the experience of doing it over and over i’ve written screenplays i’ve produced movies but i mean at a very minimal level and you know what you do have on your hands today with me is somebody who’s thought about it a lot and thought about it very personally because i’m working with my father’s work and so my approach is always one of gotta make this work but also got to be respectful um you know it’s not just another job so there’s a lot to get into there and um you know something we thought we might talk about as well is writing specifically for audio drama and how that differs from writing for say live action television or film or writing for uh new writing for print production you know and that sort of thing so is there are there things that you’ve learned in writing for audio so we we got some hints of some things you know and thinking about sound design and where that might come in and how actors need to speak and maybe interact with each other it’s it’s different um are there any things is there anything there that you think might be quite useful for people i’m not sure because i don’t think there are tremendous differences okay now let me explain that a little bit sure i started out looking at film i started out studying film but i became a relatively good writer doing audios and one of the things that the audios forced me to do was to really really work with the characters and uh work work everything out through characterization and so there is nothing wrong with that in film there is nothing in that that you shouldn’t be doing in film it just audio forced me away from what at the time was a a skill set of visual storytelling and and forced me to go somewhere else so i actually think that the two things are quite complimentary um obviously you you know you want to do as much interaction in character interplay in audio you know as you can and audio always has the problem of portraying action so i’m just gonna i’m gonna back up a little bit we started as i said just a few moments ago transcribing short stories so that meant we started the process even though we changed things very much along the way we started the process using a narrator um there are lots of people who do audio production who think using a narrator is cheating and that the entire story should be played out in in dialogue um i find that to be one of two things either incredibly hard and i have only been able in my own writing i’ve only been able to kind of do it once okay or it’s incredibly bad so you know the dialogue is always trying to tell the audience what they ought to be seeing and that puts an incredible amount of i keep saying incredible but that keeps putting a lot of emphasis on things that are other than the characterization the characters all have this second agenda which is the writer’s agenda which is to tell you what they ought to be seeing i hate the writer’s agenda if you see the writer’s agenda in the writing i think it stinks and um i all i want to do is see that you see what the character wants and that’s it and so the easiest way of doing that is to remove the writer’s agenda completely and just give it to a narrator okay so i have worked with i did one story where none of the scenes had a narrator um but there was a narrator that came on between certain scenes that was kind of like a historian and he kind of kind of got you to the next place where you could experience the next scene or the next series of scenes so he he bridged those gaps and i think there might have been one or two sentences of this is what you’re seeing in that in that whole show and uh that was about as good as i’ve ever done now granted i’m also working with westerns and adventure stories and all kinds of things that have to do with the visual physical physical world so there are plenty of other options in audio you know for different kinds of stories that might be less narrator specific um then i did a show that was a first person narrator and i really liked doing this a lot and so it was kind of a it was kind of a audio noir or you know roma noir story about a guy who gets himself in all kinds of trouble you could kind of see it as a minor alfred hitchcock movie or something like that and in that case the main character the protagonist or sort of anti-hero character is telling you the story but the way it was written and the way it was played it’s an excuse okay i’m going to tell you this story you really have to understand i’m not a bad guy okay this is this is this is what happened okay and so the narrator is all uh you know basically he’s telling you this story and all the scenes are flashbacks or flash into the thing that he’s telling you and and he’s trying to express himself and explain himself and then we did uh we did a i did another one that was kind of a hybrid and that was like uh a narrator that told you the action that was going on in the story but was often also kind of the historical guy and those sections were kind of in a very sort of 19th century language um and um and then i’ve done just a whole bunch of them that were kind of traditional traditional narrator and you always try and find a voice for the narrator that isn’t just the facts um but so the you know a difference from film is you mess around with a narrator a bit like a novel and in fact i think in a novel a lot of times i probably respect the sort of novelist like my dad who got out of the way of his audience and just gave you it was quite minimalist and not trying to push a bunch of style down your throat the idea was that his voice would disappear into your imagination and um when you’re doing an audio that doesn’t really work all that well and so sometimes having a particular goal for the narrator a particular way that the narrator presents information is important it’s also very important i’m going to jump around a little bit here but it’s also very important for directing narrators because directing narration is awful directing an actor you know you can say you know he’s talking about something else but you can say get her to give you the shoes you know and that’s his subtext and that’s his doable action that’s what he’s trying to do and so the actor’s like oh okay whatever i’m doing i’m trying to get her to give me the shoes um it’s really hard to come up with that kind of stuff for a narrator you know you’re basically saying tell the story well duh the guy knows that having a particular style or like with the first person narrator you know um explain yourself you know make people understand that you’re not a bad guy all right well that helps a lot when you’re working with a narrator so audio can have a little more of a narrator type thing audio might work out more things in scenes that have dialogue than not but they’re still they’re pretty similar i’d say i bring a lot of my audio skills to film and uh you know maybe that’s one of the reasons i haven’t worked in film all that much i don’t know but there you go yeah uh it’s so interesting um hearing your thoughts on on the narrator um and narrative point of view because i think certainly in film even when there is no literal narrator of the film there is an implied narrator in the film itself you know so like you were saying it’s in the visual aspects it’s how a certain scene is framed you know how yeah you know how the actors are blocks or whatever you how it’s lit all of these things can communicate what point of view an implied narrator is coming from and so all of the things that you’re saying there about how to get that into audio production when it’s things you can’t see but you’re trying to put it in the mind’s eye say of the listener that’s really really fascinating so um you know it’d be quite interesting to try and probe that a little bit more if we can if we can dig in it but we might get there through some other ways as well well the first thing that popped into mind just as you were saying that doesn’t have anything to do with my work and i do a film and i was thinking about well so how does that work and the first thing that i thought of was horror movies and horror movies are uh an interesting point of view they they alternate between a voyeurs point of view which is quite pulled back okay so that you know a little more than the characters and then of course if something’s going to scare you you jump into the character’s point of view um but uh that was the only thing that just popped into my mind as you were as you were talking and uh and please ask me some questions yeah no it’s a useful example i think um so i mean i suppose then it’s um as you were saying when you’re trying to get actors to maybe convey it maybe in the way that they say things or the way they’re carrying their voice for example um you know so then you know it’s those directing techniques because you’ve written undirected for quite a few audio productions together and you know that communication with actors you know how do you how do you decide right this is how i want you to set the line or you is there i suppose like with any kind of production is there a is there a dialogue then between you and the actors of you how do they think their character should be and how much autonomy do they have and is it a negotiation between you all or do you have a very set vision you know how does that work when you’re working with them okay so first of all that starts with writing and one of the things one of the things that doing the audios allowed me to learn one of the just incredible gifts in my life was that i could take a script um to in the in the early days i could take a script to new york i could watch 60 or 80 actors audition on scenes from that script and then i and then the script would be produced but watching a whole bunch of different actors play the same scenes was incredibly educational and the first thing that i realized was if you hand a scene to 60 actors and 45 or 50 of them do it poorly it’s not them it’s you and you need to write a better seat okay you need to make their intentions clearer in their actions and their lines you need to make the words more purely appropriate to their character and you need to give them the a logical build from one emotional moment to the next and um and then if you can get 45 or 50 of them to do it you know it’s never going to be your ultimate expectation but if you can get 45 or 50 of them to do it and you’re sitting there going huh okay you know if we printed that if that was if that was what we ended up with i could live with that and then as a writer you did your work so the first thing to do is direct through good writing and um that means the director has to do less and less once i and then you’re and then you’re casting and so the next the next step of directing is is picking who those actors are going to be and i like to pick interesting people luckily you know we’ve always had a wide assortment of people that we could cast i live in los angeles the the last show that we did we cast um you know through the internet which i hadn’t done before and um it was we had 2500 submissions and i mean you know we we ended up reading 400 people and it took a week it was harder than doing the show um and uh i you know i look for actors that have an imagination when you when you watch them doing what they’re doing is like is there some sense that they actually see or feel or imagine in the environment that they’re in um and actors that can work in front of a microphone but they still can use they still use their body they still you see muscles firing you see things like that because this uh an actor organizes a lot i mean unconsciously an actor organizes a lot of their thoughts and their feelings and how they work on the character by how they move and when we’re doing audio there’s almost no blocking and so uh they you you strip away this incredibly valuable way of remembering what you want to do with a scene and knowing what your intention is and things like this the the blocking is a mnemonic for for all that stuff and and so you’re going to force them to work in front of a microphone i like to give them a lot more room to move around than i used to but pretend we’re working just in front of a microphone and so when you see you know when the uh you know when the heroine of the story says no wait and then the idea in the story is that she mounts up her horse and you know you you’re looking at the back of the actress and you see the muscles in her back like twitch and her leg move a little bit and stuff like that it’s like oh yeah that’s the one you want you know it’s like because she’s getting on that horse um you know you look for people that have a very vibrant imagination um i also just tend to look for people who are fun fun to work with because i’m gonna have to work for with them for a day or a week or whatever i’m gonna do and it shouldn’t be boring and it would be nice if you know maybe i was friends with them for some time to come and uh there’s just you know there’s just things like that i tend to look for people who speak multiple languages don’t know why they just tend to be interesting people and they’ve got uh you know like that uh like that wonderful science fiction film that came out a couple years ago where the language like reprograms your sense of time okay

languages do uh program different things in your mind and so i kind of look for that although i have no real good explanation for why i like that and um if an actor is a good actor i mean just coming back to one of the earlier things if an actor is a good actor and you see on their resume that they have and of course resumes are padded with all kinds of idiotic stuff but you you see and can’t believe um on their resume that they uh that they have a background in dance or martial arts or or something like that those are also again you wouldn’t think of that for audio necessarily but the thing in my interpretation of it um you you don’t actually go away from the physical because you’re not utilizing it you go deep into the physical because you can’t do as much with it and and so so the next step to directing would be would be getting a good getting a good cast and getting people that when they came in seem to have they seem to understand the character or to actually just be that person um once i’m in the studio uh i don’t talk to now prior to going in the studio i’ll take my script and uh every single line and every single intention in the script i go to the back of the previous page and i write down the doable actions okay so this is sandy meisner acting 101 okay so i studied acting for a long long time i’m a terrible actor it doesn’t mean i don’t i don’t know what the actors are doing and uh i write down you know i think like okay so what is the actor trying to accomplish in the scene okay does that change at some point and then with every line how is that line attempting what exactly is it doing to attempt to get to that goal okay and i write that down and i write down any subtext that i can think of um and i don’t talk to the actor about this but if they start to get lost i can look at that line just track right over and go do this you know like i was saying get her to give you the shoes whatever whatever it is and um uh and then we don’t do any rehearsal or anything like that because things have changed a little bit but after a phono code we were always union productions so after phono code tells you that your rehearsal time costs the same as your recording time and so my feeling is i’m just a raw material guy all i want i want to get as many takes as i can i want to get as many interpretations as i can i do a ton of stuff in the editing room and so my feeling was it we couldn’t afford to do enough rehearsal to make rehearsal worthwhile so my feeling is is we just we go in the studio and we i just let it rip now once in a while the act sometimes the actor will sort of say you know what’s my general background what am i what am i doing i had uh i did one uh show with a really wonderful actor who’s i think he went on to teach at yale or something like that um and you know he said so you know what’s the background of my character and i said well you know i i cast you intentionally like really well this guy so this story takes place during the 1880s but this is an older man who is a who was a mountain man i go you you know um you’re an old hippie you know you’re a transcendentalist you know kind of walden pond guy who went west and lived with the indians and things like this and so you know he’s you but if you look at the generations if you go back and track the history of it there were people like that and they were that same generation in a previous incarnation you know and so in that case i was sort of telling him how i wanted him to approach the character but i was also just saying you know i cast you right you don’t even have to approach the character you are that guy um and uh so sometimes you have a conversation like that uh which is which is useful but a lot of times i won’t you know i won’t talk to them too much about it other than to other than to make them feel better about that kind of stuff if i’ve done my job right and then you know we’ll record a few and a lot of times so i also like writing scenes with three four five six seven characters um this is kind of the super bowl of writing two characters is easy um the more characters up to a point the more characters uh the more productive a scene can be and the more quickly it can move through information so if you have two characters and they have to emotionally stair step to get to a particular emotional point what can happen if you have three characters is one character goes here another character goes here the third character goes here okay and then whoa you’re already up there you know and um and so having a bunch of characters is a riot but it’s it’s hard to manage as a traffic pattern with actors and as a director and everybody’s got to know what they’re doing and when they break in and when they don’t break in and how they manage it so a lot of times we’ll do a couple of takes just to get things settled that’s the rehearsal um then uh i’ll record a few and i’ll give people pointers a little bit oh i want a little more of this i want a little more of that and um and then i generally will stop recording the whole scene say it’s a three four five page scene and i’ll break it into pieces it might be by the page it might be beats the kind or sections that kind of straddle a beat to kind of begin a little bit before a certain moment in the in the scene and end a little bit afterwards so that we can we know we can cut in there and um and i’ll do those smaller pieces and this is important because the in doing audio the actors we generally work through so many pages in a day that you can’t really ask your actors to memorize the script and you know we’ll do 20 pages a day and uh if you’re doing a movie or a television show or something you might be doing anywhere between 2 and 10 pages a day with 10 pages if you’re doing a 10-page day it’s usually a lot of action and nobody has to remember the lines um so uh

will you know they’re constantly looking down at their script and kind of picking that up and so what happens is in editorial you can hear i can hear i look away from each other it’s like that focus characterization just drops okay when they go back to the page so the idea is get enough takes so that the moment they look at the page is different in as many of the different takes as possible so you’ve got that focus for the whole scene but you got to do a bunch of them to get that um and uh and then a lot of times what i’ll do is i’ll go in and if i’m unhappy with an area uh i will change a few words or i’ll try and find words that the actor is more comfortable with um and uh words that have maybe uh an emotional meaning to that actor that that the original didn’t and i didn’t realize it um and i don’t really recognize these things i just i just change them and see if it works and uh and then when i’m really kind of getting the last few things generally what i’ll do is if i’m working with one actor i’ll push the other actor aside and i’ll play that part and when i when i do that i will give a performance that pushes the actor that i’m working with in certain directions and um you know that will steer their their performance to give me various things but i’m just collecting tons and tons and tons of data i don’t know what i want i don’t know you know if i see something show up in the scene that looks particularly good um i will then start once i’ve got the whole thing i will go and i will chase that thing because it’s like i don’t want to give that just because there was a moment of it doesn’t mean i want to give it up if i’ve still got time on the clock for that scene before i start running over time i’ll go chase that particular idea if i can and and try and get some more of that i also look for if you do a lot of takes like this you know so i mean this a lot of takes might be somewhere between uh six for something that’s fairly simple and i mean in a scene that’s got a lot of people and we break it down into a lot of little sections we might go 70 80 80 takes and um they go very it’s not like a taking film they go very fast i mean everybody ends one and they start another sometimes they’ll just go to the cast i’ll just go go for three we’re just going to roll we’re going to roll right through and you’re just going to finish it and as soon as you want to start again just start again and the the gold that i’m looking for is if i’ve got different versions of the take and it’s good to start with this kind of calmer one but end with this heightened one okay getting the piece that allows me to jump from interpretation to interpretation you know i don’t always get it exactly where i want it but getting it somewhere in there is suit that’s just wonderful when that happens because then i then i have this huge range of stuff that i can activate rather than being locked in in one interpretation um so there that’s wow i’ll shut up for a minute now that’s fascinating um i uh i’m i’m really into uh certain animations and i love watching videos of the voice actors playing their characters because they really do become their character so often you know it’s so cool watching that um so yeah i definitely get where you’re coming from i imagine there must be studies of that where the kineticism and the body actually does come through the voice you know it really must stay so that’s really cool to hear your experience of witnessing that as a director and a writer i’ll give you an example in that area if you’d like sure um uh in an early show that i directed um i had a guy who was going into a building and uh he was supposed to walk up onto the stair of the building and there’s a guy he knows there and he he’s going to walk in the building his motivation to get into the building he walks past the guy and as he walks past the guy who turns to him he goes jim okay and goes in just ign kind of curt acknowledgement oh my god we started recording that it was just like jim jim jim jim and i mean it was it was endless and we never got what we were looking for and finally in desperation i took the actor and i just moved him back about four steps and i just said walk past the microphone and when you get to the microphone just turn to the microphone nod and say jim okay and then keep going okay and bam one take perfect okay so the movement clarified it i also had you know i worked with a wonderful young actor a few years ago who had started out as a dancer and um his performances were kind of dull until he came on to the thing he just he would just like jump up and down in between takes and he which and he wasn’t it wasn’t even movement that had anything to do with the performance he just would kind of jump up and down and sort of dance around and do stuff and then he’d settle down at the microphone and it was great um so the lack of motion in audio is often a problem there was a there was i believe it was a vividly uh uh bolivian director um about 30 or 40 years ago who came to the united states and did some work with lucasfilm but but radio drama work with lucasfilm and he’d done an awful lot of radio in bolivia and he blocked everything like a play and he had big like those big old dolly mounted microphones that would carry the uh that would you know follow the actors around like they were in a movie and um i don’t know that listening to that stuff my memory of that stuff isn’t like oh my gosh those performances were exceptional but it was it was another way of working things out that i think worked very well i think that all brings us really nicely onto thinking about the technology behind all of this and those sorts of techniques where the microphones are almost being used a bit more like cameras or a bit more like um how microphones would follow the actors on the camera in in movie making as well um and i imagine that today it’s much easier to do repeated takes because you’ve got the digital technology and you can do it fairly endlessly whereas before maybe on tape but it’s not just so easy i imagine very similar to how i film it’s not just so easy to do endless texts yeah expensive yeah so um so i was wondering is it because i mean we we got in touch really because i had seen a post of yours on the audio drama hub on facebook and um and a shout out to jack bowman who has been on the podcast before he’s an audio drama producer here in the uk and he he introduced me to that group as well and so that’s why i’ve been seeing all your amazing posts about this and you posted about you know actually innovating certain technologies you know and and coming up with things to solve problems um so i was i’m really very interested to hear more about that you know so it’s not that you’ve been actually developing stories and storytelling and all of those sorts of methods but actually the technology to produce them as well and i’d love to hear more about that if you’re happy too oh yeah i have to say i’m i’m fantastically lucky in that uh i i’m pretty good with the theory of things but not so good with the practice and so i i have um a producer editor who is amazing at figuring out ways of executing the crazy ideas that i come up with and i had he’s passed away a few years ago but i had this wonderful wonderful engineer which you i believe you saw the post on and um and he could just not only was he terrific at regarding things but he could just build devices that i imagined or i needed to have so the particular thing that we were talking about i have to give you a little bit of background so i like working in stereo i like doing as much with the stereo space as i possibly can and um one of the hardest things was to figure you know do i want to block factors around in the stereo space and then somehow block the production or the creation of sound effects in some way that tracks them and when you put all of the stuff in the same recording will like line up and sound like it’s at the same spot this is a nightmare okay and uh very difficult to do and of course the more you utilize the stereo space the more difficult it is and i like to get really clean dialogue tracks i like to not worry about anything but the voices when i’m in the studio that’s the only thing i want to deal with and so uh i ended up you know i record all my voices mono but on individual tracks they can be panned around the stereo proscenium um and placed with both panning and uh you know so panning and volume um and uh and a little bit of reverb to create you know are they further back are they closer to you things like that um but then how to make the sound effects follow them and so i was talking to howard our engineer and there’s some kind of a joke it’s only funny to engineers and i don’t really understand it but they would make this joke about a monophonic pan pot okay meaning some somehow that you would pan something from left to right in mono which of course you can’t do and he i had heard him say that a couple of times and i was like howard um we’ve worked with ms technology which i’ll explain explain in a second and i want you to i want you to build me a monophonic pan-pod and and so he did and

he drove away wow in utah and about three months later he came back with this device okay so this is the panner and over here we’ve got one of the one of the knobs is the volume which you know basically does your in and out and this does your back and forth and okay now i’ll explain how this thing works and we don’t use that any longer that’s old tape analog technology we’ve got our own version in digital in the digital world now so we record our sound effects in a technique that is called ms okay for mid side and in this particular interpretation you have a the mid mic is a cardioid or hypercardioid mic that basically records forward and then you use a figure eight mic which is not a stereo mic but it has a positively and negatively phased lobe that go out to the sides okay and when you interface the mid plus the side and the mid minus the side okay you get left and right in fact almost every microphone that’s out there that allows you to switch how wide the pattern is is an ms is secretly an ms microphone with a switch that either adds more side or subtracts side and um and thus it gives you a narrower view you know for you know not so much side or a wide view for a lot of side and a lot of ms microphones are intended to be decoded at you know into left right stereo at the moment that you’re recording well the thing that i realized i’m not unique in this i’m just cut off from other people in the audio business and so i i feel like these things are my own idea because they are but i’m sure they’re not very unique um uh i’d sort of say well why do code in the field why why decode that at all until the last moment that you have to um just keep it mid-side and then as you turn up and down the side channel you get more or less environment so you can choose the size of the space sort of that you’re not the side of space that you’re in you know it doesn’t make it sound it does make it sound bigger it uh

it doesn’t really make it react like it’s a different sound but you get a you know you get more of it and then uh if you control the volume of the mid channel you get something that seems closer to you or further away from you and then why not put that mid channel on a pan pod okay and now you can pan it back and forth within the within the scene and why not automate that pan pot so that during the scene or in the old days before automation we could hand move the center so that something can actually move during the scene all right so we can kind of automate all these different all these different movements so we began recording our sound effects in mid-side and leaving them that way bringing them into our post-production and now we can we can record every sound effect we wanted just kind of right in front of the microphone and then we could decide where we were going to place it and how it was going to move and do all these other things in post and um and so

we later i mean just to go on one more level we later changed it to what we call mso technique which is mid-side and

i’ve so microphones here so you would take we use these sennheiser mkh uh microphones and so we have the uh the figure eight microphone okay which we would mount in a holder like this and then we have a cardioid microphone which we would mount you know so that the mid the figure eight does the sides and this does the center all right and then we will put those those will be mounted on a on a tripod to record our effects and then mount it down near the ground so it gets a good acoustic coupling with the ground we would have a uh microphone the advantage of an omni-directional microphone is it records a lot lower frequencies if you think of this in this microphone matrix you think about it as a as part of a speaker this is like the microphone for the subwoofer okay it’s like a special low frequency mic or the mic that’s going to record the lowest frequencies you can record for the subwoofer and so we roll off that low mic at about 300 or less and so it’s just just taking in the the lower stuff and the other microphones handle the other things the first time we experimented with that we did a recording of a land rover driving over a kind of a rough road and we were sitting there in our studio and it was like the thing drew drove through the back wall i mean it was amazing having that just a little bit of extra low frequencies it was terrific you know now we’ve got sound effects that we can move around so when i do um you know we do things like we’ll we do all of our foley in the actual environments we don’t use a fully stage so i’m very i’m very lucky my family has a ranch in southwestern colorado and it has uh it has several old houses on it and each one was built at a different time and each one has different floors and different doors and different banisters and things like this and um and so we’ve got all these different floors we can record and things it’s like having a foley stage but it’s all the actual places in actual acoustic environments you’re not having to fake anything it actually sounds like a room um and it’s kind of isolated from that you know you’re not hearing too many other things and and so uh you know we would go in and we would do when we would do foley which is your you know like your footsteps and all these things that are physical handling of things um to get footsteps we would do we would have what we call a foley series and that would be we would do a walk up to the microphone walk away from the microphone stand in front of the microphone walk in place and there are kind of techniques to do this which i won’t get into that’s really key but um you know there’s ways of making it sound better and better we get little this is so useful in creating great performances little adjustment of the feet like a little scratch or a little creak on a board or something like this same thing with a chair if you’re sitting here my chair will make a little bit of noise um if you get the idea that someone moved in their chair you can add that to the performance like maybe they’re a little uncomfortable or maybe they’re getting ready to get up or something like that super super i mean it can make or break an actor’s performance having those wonderful sound effects and so we would just do these various things in front of our microphone array and and then we could place the stuff where we wanted later now in general we would also do things that were not just like right there in front of the mic if we kind of knew that certain things were going to happen and we would use them in a particular way we weren’t going to paint ourselves into a corner um but uh it was an incredibly productive manner you know now we do now we do it all with automation in a digital audio workstation and um uh it it made things you know in the in the midst of a very laborious process it made things go you know very quickly and um ms has been a has been a godsend to us and we figured out some extra ways of using it so that was you know that was one kind of innovative um innovative thing that we did it’s also fascinating just from my film theory background and i you know i i i so often associate things like proximity with camera and lenses and and all that and it’s just so great to learn more about how that works with sound as well it’s so cool well here’s another thing and this gets i know i talk to people in the in the audio drama business about this and it just seems to put them to sleep but it’s so important and it has a lot to do with what you’re talking about um when you’re doing any kind of a recording it’s incredibly important to understand and i learned all of this from working in the film business it’s incredibly important to understand the size of the venue that you’re working in and um in a in a feature film you’re working in a giant venue and you can play the soundtrack very very loud because you’re you’re filling up a big space but because you can play it very loud that also means you can play things very softly because you have this difference because the top goes up so high you get extra bottom you know the bottom is much lower so you get this extra bottom and that gives you a sense of space and depth that when you are working in a smaller venue like all of our stuff is engineered to play well in a car okay so small and kind of a loud environment so we end up compressing things quite a bit so that you can hear the fainter sounds you know and the louder sounds don’t overwhelm you and so knowing the size of your space is is terribly important and um and then choosing a playback volume when you’re editing and mixing and that reflects that space all right so if you’re going to be working in a relatively small space you don’t have a particularly high playback volume what that forces you to do is take all the lower sounds and mix them up hotter so that you can hear them now you’ve got compression without ever using a compressor you know a lot of times we will edit at higher volume and then mix at lower volume and so we have we have a specific volume that we use when we’re editing 79 db at the editor’s years and then we will mix at 77 or so um for the car and so what ends up happening is the the show has this sense of space and particularly like the diamond of jeru takes place in the jungles of borneo and we went to all kinds of trouble to build these really thick environments i mean we probably spent as much time creating the multi-level ambience as we did doing all the sound effects and it was just glorious while we were editing we went to mix it

you know it just became smaller and more you know less good but that’s where our audience is so that’s what we have to do so it is you know it is important to know the size and space that you’re working in just like if you make a feature film you can present some you can present a scene that’s a great deal darker than you can on television because you know that audience is watching it in the dark you know and so any amount of light will be useful if you think somebody’s going to be watching it in a bright living room you have some other things you have to take into consideration it’s the same it’s the same set of problems and it’s worked out the same you know the same way gosh that’s so cool to learn about thank you um great so uh you mentioned there the diamond of jeru and you’ve worked on quite a lot of ones and i guess i gather that was really quite a massive production for you that one yeah yeah and do you want to do do you want to talk a bit about that one um and any of the other work that you’ve been doing because that was something adapted from your father’s work was yeah well you’re going to love this because it’s written it’s right up all of your your theory alleys

the diamond of drew was written in the late 40s or early 50s by my dad it was a short story um he sent it off to his agent who was not able to sell it it wasn’t particularly good certainly not one of his better efforts and just because he was working on other things when it didn’t sell he threw it in a box and it went in the back of a closet and it didn’t get published and after he died we were putting uh i was putting the book of his short stories together and i thought okay i’ll i’ll stick this in the book of short stories i’m not that happy with it i’m not quite sure what i’m going to do and then the editor got back to me and they’ve done what they call cast off on the page the page count and it wasn’t um the book wasn’t long enough and it wasn’t long enough with the diamond really in there and that was the only reason i’d stuck it i was kind of desperate it’s the only reason i’d stuck it in there as i knew i was a little light and so it came back that it wasn’t you know the book wasn’t long enough and i thought okay that i like that story but it really needs some work so i did what we call in the film business a page one re-write and i thought i’m going to take this 20-page short story i’m going to turn it into an page novella and i’m really going to expand on it and you know and uh turn it into what as much that i can make it into the ultimate version of what my dad was trying to what my dad was trying to accomplish i didn’t know anything about borneo i didn’t know anything about this luckily i ran across somebody who knew a bunch and gave me some research things and i was able to you know i was able to pull something together that worked that worked pretty good first person story uh you know kind of uh people going upriver to a diamond prospecting in in borneo a man and his wife doing it sort of for fun and getting in all kinds of trouble and the hero is the guy who kind of has to go after them and save them and uh so there it gets published book comes out it’s relatively popular um a few years later a friend a friend of mine is on the uh he’s on a plane coming back from morocco where he’s looking for um locations for a kind of a biblical movie with and he’s traveling with an executive at uh usa network and they’re talking and in those days usa seemed to have the idea that what they really wanted to do was uh a couple of movies in every genre and so she told my buddy mike joyce uh she said you know we really want to do kind of an indiana jones sort of classic adventure story and and mike was like well i know where to find that so he got off he got off the plane and he called me up and he goes does your dad have anything and after i thought about it and thought about the kind of budgets that they had available and things like that and i came back and i said well the diamond of jeru is probably the one that is most is most reasonable it doesn’t need an awful lot more than sort of jungle and a little town on their on the river and then the big the big problems are taken care of and um so uh we agreed that that we would try and do that and they bought it and and i’m just gonna i’m gonna keep going with this dramatic story here for a second because it’s something you’ll appreciate um this is what breaking into the movie business actually looks like you hear people talking about their br the way they break in and they’re always like saying well i think this particular you hear these stories here in hollywood it’s like this actor is looking for this kind of story or this kind of stuff and that kind of stuff and it’s always third hand and it’s always like the pile of gold at the end of the rainbow it’s always complete complete idiocy um but in this case they bought the thing in late november the entirety of hollywood shuts down between thanksgiving and about a week after new year’s i mean nothing moves okay um there’s no traffic i’m joking but i mean it’s just like nothing goes on and it was just before that and i thought i want to write this thing but you know every network has got their flavor of the month writers and i wasn’t the flavor of the month writer for anybody and so i thought well i know a couple of other things in may i think in june and july of that year there was going to be a

a writer’s strike possibly an actor strike both contracts were coming up and i thought you know if they don’t get this thing made before summer it’s over it’s not going to happen because things that get delayed in hollywood just die and so they bought the dumb thing right at a tricky critical point maybe they shouldn’t have even been acquiring any new material until they knew what was going to be able to happen so there when they come back they’re going to be desperate for a script or they just wasted the option right so i just went crazy and i wrote this script in like a month and turned it in and they were unhappy that one of their producers they you know as soon as they start as soon as the powers that be start to see power congealing in any place other than themselves they’re not very happy with that and so they weren’t very happy with it but they also realized exactly what i had said that that you know they had this looming deadline all right so that’s what breaking in looks like in hollywood recognizing certain conditions that that make you know make your thing work um that are actual conditions that are that are really legitimate and hard not the rumor that somebody might want something like this anyway um you know by april we were making the movie in australia and um it was a lot of fun it was definitely one of the most i’ve only worked on kind of movies of the week which is kind of like the bargain basement of the movie business and um it was definitely the most creative of all of those experiences and it and it was very hard and it was a lot of it was a lot of fun and it was a lot of different it was also as every movie is incredibly disappointing and all kinds of you know terrible things happened to my script and at the same time my script was turned into this this physical reality that was very exciting and and really wonderful and we got done with it and random house was asking me to do one more audio production and i thought well i’m sick of westerns i’ve done you know 59 58 westerns and i want to do something but i want to have a soundscape that is really distinct and you know i started thinking well the mid 20th century in borneo is pretty distinct and and it’s not what i’ve been doing and so uh i rewrote it again now i’m gonna go back and say a couple other things about this when i wrote that when i took the novella and i turned it into a screenplay i went from the first person of the the guide the guy that goes after the man and woman to uh rescue them and i added a bunch of scenes with the man and woman okay so it expanded to this uh to to cover almost in first-person way or at least more closely this second group of characters when i did the audio um i started realizing start realizing i realized halfway through making the movie that uh the borneo native characters are really fascinating and that i had in many ways kind of neglected them and i wanted to spend more time with them and so when i did the audio the story grew again and included the story of those characters to the point where you actually recognize that everything that everybody’s doing hinged off of a particular moment before any of these people ever arrived in borneo that just had to do with the dayak or native characters and um so uh it the story the story grew and encompassed more points of view each time um of course when we got around to making the audio you know we had all kinds of fun because we got to we hired nate we had native guys who came from borneo we had they we had a bunch of other actors also playing uh characters from borneo and the guys who were actually from borneo taught all those guys melee so there’s all kinds of times in the story when they’re talking in melee and so they got like language language school and uh we had all kinds of australian actors and british actors and uh you know it was it was a it was a an accent fest and it was a lot of fun what a story um what journey that one story has had as well it’s amazing like every production format possible yeah yeah but i love that i love that idea that you expanded it and um went in and gave more space to those more native characters and it’s really interesting to see that happening more in general now i think um because uh you know they’ve been so neglected i think just very generally and to to just uh counteract that a bit and give them more space that’s really great to hear um you gave me the web address for all of that so i’m gonna have that in our show notes forever so that people can go and check all of that out because you’ve got really detailed notes on everything it’s a really thorough website for so i really will just encourage yeah a lot of videos a lot of photographs um yeah there’s a lot of material there yeah great so i really urge anybody who’s listening or listening to or watching this go and check that out the diamond of jury it’s really fascinating production story i think um so gosh that’s a lot i feel like i feel like we’re only starting to scratch the surface with everything that we’ve talked about um and i mean i’d really love for for you to come on again sometime and to get into some detail uh on some other things um is there anything that you’re working on at the moment that you would like everybody to know about the thing that’s most exciting that i’m working on at the moment has nothing to do with film or audio um

uh i’m going back into a lot of my dad’s uh materials and i’ve created this program called louis lower series called louis lamour’s lost treasures and so uh we produced um two books uh full of stories that my dad didn’t finish there’s actually a few in there that he did finish but have are unpublished as of today but most of them are are unfinished and i take his notes and his correspondence and other things that i know about what was going on and i try and kind of explain to the reader where this story fit in his career and what he was trying to accomplish what the rest of the story would have been like and uh it’s kind of you know it’s a book for a fan uh of louis lamour to to see all the other kinds of things that he wanted to do in his life because many of these things were genres that he did not uh sell a lot of stories in and things like that um some of them were ideas that he had that were just too weird to you know too wild to sort of actually be able to be something that uh he finished you know the the in any author’s life their most ambitious work is the work they don’t finish because it was too ambitious and uh so there’s a lot of very interesting things in there it’s also uh these books and there’s some other pieces of this which i’ll explain in a second um all of this work is also a pretty good kind of history lesson on uh how writers worked in the paperback book business that you know started just before or during world war ii and it’s still with us but probably hit its peak in the late 80s or early 90s and um so it’s a whole kind of it’s a whole kind of literary era and it’s a it’s a look from the inside from the from an author’s career kind of looking looking out at everything that was going on at that time so the other thing that i’ve done besides these two books of unfinished work is i’ve gone into a bunch of my dad’s older finished novels and done the same thing added this kind of bonus features in the back that talk about the story behind the story what was going on you know i just did one for uh kiowa trail that uh explains that although it never went anywhere as a film that story was actually my dad wrote that for catherine hepburn wow because they had had a long uh kind of acquaintance with one another talking about trying to work in this film and talking about trying to work in that film she even tried to get him involved in writing the sequel to rooster cogburn which was the she did with john wayne in the 70s and um and so they they weren’t close friends but they they knew and respected one another very much and so you know knowing that story is kind of the interesting backstory to kiowa trail and where it came from there’s a another one called caligan which is all about us just driving around the desert looking for the locations you know it’s really it’s really kind of a down and down in the dirt four-wheel drive you know kind of like uh uh investiga location uh expedition um so they’re all different and it’s kind of a almost like a random access uh biography of my father’s um uh professional life it doesn’t go into a lot of personal into a lot of personal details it’s really it’s about the writing it’s about the literary industry and things like that and so that’s the uh i’m hopefully within the next six months or so i’ll kind of wrap that program up i’ve been working on it for about four years and uh and so that’s that’s my my big project for the moment amazing yeah really important to have all that history preserved that’s great fantastic work um bo is there anywhere where people can find more about you on the internet do you have your own website that people can look at i do it’s probably not the greatest thing in the world but bo okay where you can go but just also looking around on and all of its associated there’s a whole kind of constellation of blue more websites and you know that’s the kind of stuff that i’ve been doing for the last 35 years you know well before my dad uh my dad passed away you know i was already kind of uh working on all kinds of stuff around the perimeter of his of his career and uh and so you know that you can get a pretty good idea of the things that i’ve done yeah it seems that you’re very much an archivist as well in the history and you’ve got an awful lot of things going on there i’ve had to become this i didn’t really start out life uh you know um start out life looking to be an archivist i’m sort of uh you know i’m sort of a a motorhead that that ended up getting tossed all of this all of this paperwork and um and so uh you know if i’m if i’m not like got the hood up on my car i’ve got the hood up on all the paperwork yeah this has been so informative and yeah i really hope that we can keep in touch and um i’m i’ve so enjoyed learning so much from you about all of this and i look forward to learning more um i think once you when if you get through your dad’s stuff you’ll have so much more to say about all those technologies and to do that history as well because it’s all so important i think and um it’s part of such a big network of so many things you know it’s it’s really amazing everything that you’ve been working on and it’s been such a pleasure talking to you today a pleasure talking to you if i can ever help you with anything that doesn’t have anything to do with me i’m certainly willing to do that too so well i’m a super nervous at all yeah that’s really generous yeah i’m super super nervous at all less total amateur so take any help that’s offered well you’re doing a great job and it’s amazing through people like you the kind of information that’s getting out into the world it’s really it’s really i mean i wish i was 20 years old and trying to learn everything about all the things that i know a little bit about now because i just can’t even imagine how deep i could go if i you just get on the internet and start following all kinds of different podcasts and stuff oh yeah it’s overwhelming but yes it is it’s important i think all of us are contributing to yeah preserving that logging it and keeping it in posterity hopefully so yeah thank you so so much for steph really enjoyed it

this is a cozy people production with me paula blair the music is common ground by airton used under a 3.0 non-commercial creative commons license and is available at if you’ve enjoyed this episode please give us a good reading subscribe and recommend audiovisual cultures to your friend all of our contact details socials information ways to listen and our mailing list sign up can be found on our website linked in the show notes thank you so much for listening and supporting take care and i’ll catch you next time


Audiovisual Cultures episode 24 – Skyscraper automated transcript

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hello and welcome to episode twenty four of audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different aspects of signed an image based cultural production we just contact from singing skyscraper we can have a bit of a child all right not a lot of the other sounds and culture an act to change just before and he joins me to get into class just when the same massive thank you to everybody who spends liking sharing most important last name and enjoying if you have seen him finding useful discussions that we've been having everything you do to help fight is really much appreciated if you can support on peachy arm to help stand under the podcast that would be incredible can I eat discussion and I'll be back in the end the demerger mission thank you she would act again toucher outlay or be involved in some line that was very strange yeah was tense Schembri citing problems going why isn't he can't really sweaty click on those same streets many qualities I give it much credit I'm one of those courses was giving a sense of just how dirty it was becoming to the cause of this phone this is our first one of the many things that shows with Tara is that too early less than a minute welcome right now I think Die Hard tarring inferno house to come up with a system we can avoid them it is like a twenty first century mashup of the sounds in a way a straight for me and then go except for the fact that the building was really well designed with fire in mine and when they finally get back if the actual controls the building because the internet seems to be controlled just from an iPad I'm of the phones and tablets are available and it's just cold attachments once you get control of it back on your template the building works fine turn off and on again Richard I want today has been telling us for years I quite enjoyed skyscraper actually I thought it was fun summer night ice for a firm which makes you go one of those kinds must be hot yeah it was at least an appropriate time of the year because what is it it's the fifteenth of July and husband every day which is very house or it's a phase described as a hot day and so it it's hot most of the northern hemisphere and that means I was inclined to care while there's people must be %HESITATION yeah but I was once right it comes up going really what do you can still be able to breathe at this point but again such a huge amount of heat pumped up towards them but I suppose there is this thing with these are known about the audience term contract which the filming courage's R. asks the words to agree to go on the specific direction these are sometimes not so why just thought to myself no human strength to do that whenever she will have enough stamina left to do that he's lost quite a lot of blood that's just not possible then going out in the parallel universe where this takes place it is possible for humans to be that strong have a stamina for those of physics working with different things where that number is that this is what family's capable of making us capable of S. cinematic and the sense that say the magic of cinema for human is able to do these things yeah because you're not we're talking the way back about them being moments went sort of start to heat the first was absolute limit any shops that are managed to survive a situation come out of it completely exhausted beaten and gasping for breath and booted a bit more and then in the next seat the delivery of the Clinton thing too about a minute later he's fine and he's trying out conversation somebody must get to the rim matching makes that possible I think that when we come out with action movies is that in addition to some syncopation movie world welcome to live by okay we couldn't do this much pricing because we can just added together lots of shots right active correct and not rush in addition to being shifted into park world been shifted one step further into the it is not even physically possible world there's been so many points in action movies work on %HESITATION person would die if they fall from the heights and landed on the rocks or anything on it so I think yeah you definitely wouldn't be able to hold a press on but then it's fine either I have a willingness to suspend disbelief and just care six months our success to omit but in the story space these things are possible but what else might be going on in the nice spending in this pretty little because in Austin got call it's not actually it's got conventions it's got standards it's got levels extremist actions increased I'm sorry one character chiefs a certain thing it's not even meant to make sense even within the world of the story is just saying that you have insurance I'm not saying I was going down one of these two routes for sure and it was a mixture of the two but both of them involved I'm pretty sure that this is not quite happening in this world I was not on it so because or if the contrivance for welding which is happening is how you invest with these things possible so I think that's part of the enjoyment is going this is Joe price of some kind I wasn't matching that there was a good degree of humor in this film I think it's important to have that humor not just to have a %HESITATION having a bit of a polls from the intensity in our stock come down which seems to be a stripper in addition to our stock market search let's see which necessitates having main characters you have a base has a sense of humor roasting Brussels Kitty that he could write quite funny government as well as content it's pretty typical rate you need some quick tips from there J. nine that tension there are some bakery nine several times and I don't know who these people are far away from us or what but wasn't tell quite near the end when you really needed to comic relief that I heard anybody else offering anything time is critical I wanted to get a minute take your mention because I was so happy to hear that needs combos and that's %HESITATION because we do not see her and knocks I think screen was a formative experience and my cinematic education as a teenager at Kmart when I was quite young I think I was thirteen when I saw it and it to detain solution center line to save screen cherry runners for change %HESITATION sands also remains in saying this is why they brought in those things twenty five most because their member the person on that task Askin me my friends RT at saying yeah my friends started offering our sins like shut up this is for you I remember I never happens on June zero therefore I would go and see if the whole ground for it my way and stuff read customer might be some reason where I mean I think the screen this is that they are scary there are the end things stop their post modern in the sense that they're highly referential and highly aware of characters you're talking about eight and inspired by lots of slasher movies or and the types of characters they are many councils Sydney as the crux of it all heard their child together that she species by Jamie Curtis and how did you yes lives and lives is also saying that's what a lot of oneness and non screen has stopped all sixteen her boyfriend's played by the ski %HESITATION shaving his name is Seth starter with him saying that ten minutes may yet our duty here doing it together the night everything kicks off he convinces are destined to finally see them because she's been resisting immigration issues wanted to weigh it out the party they're all laughing hi despite discussion of going behind the virgin survive spent you know a version you can die she manages to fight back and survive the screen was one two three four five six just a quick victory in addition to the screen she does she said a lot of lower budget films creativity but it's unusual to see her and quite make sense is something that's out of anything and she did a very good job of not more not just you know the conference and she did a very good job these women that just because usually at that they're not so good I think good job with the fighting their account I have to watch you do some I've been in the on court she's really kick ass and the screen comes our characters I've seen junior Hey thanks for being a strong person getting Siri the trauma of siting back she does not get back that was a lot of that in this character it was his death she's set me out the writing it's nine even that way her character was dressed very similar dress our system early on I thought this is a situation in which we've got two people who's been in the army the wine and you use that card yeah and he was %HESITATION this is what team is working with the FBI there's mention of having done something before okay so we didn't %HESITATION on after six years service members of the armed response even some special unit the prices are not cheap in the army so I got two characters are very capable yeah and she's a trained that said her character shirt and knock on the soccer here years fabrications that she's saying stuff we're dying to mankind okay the first hand that kind of training you need to be an option yeah right and what we're gonna have now is we're gonna have she's given a lot to just become a full time mom and he's got a career which isn't welcome anymore but it does involve actually going out and being pregnant I'm not so I'm not so I'm not gonna lie because I'm going to spend the whole time going to grumble grumble grumble what is that you're done with the amount of dependence is being gradually occurring over the course of decades of action movies but then they can put sparkly because they give her a lot more to do than just screaming and running around kids show support she has having on the police to do and ultimately when it comes to a climax she's the one who when sore during Johnson's character has just run out of things you can do she's the one who has an idea and scratch the entire situation under control isn't just save him although she does a map that that it's something he usually does for her and fixing her phone and the implication is that jokey relationship we better stop fishing because they are in the box or container and accept her phone regularly stops working properly and it is a specific she likes getting him to sort of write horror any indication as far out east the joke she makes S. that she's perfectly capable of trying to think he keeps just stating that works and that is simply repeating she says right just like very useful yeah but it's closely house so of course and that's the thing that solves all problems the end of this year St speak out yet he recruits I don't think as far as this film is concerned the way that you control buildings this is the same way that you control online banking on your device or saying we did you not get your home on your tablet and I suppose that's another one of those suspended disbelief things because we just have to go always sold on rates the common spaces that anybody could use running around the training to understand but it did make their visual from for the building and so screens screens all over the shop and so I'm telling you so much well there's one scene in particular we do need to come back to convert our character there were none of the fact that he thought screens up this is something that's very obviously call its genes from tiring inferno and Steinhardt boats to ferry talk with her %HESITATION building is the special work the public don't know what it's for and if you feel that it's a local east different types of screens account remembering the terms are used the whole thing is screens there's cameras search reverse camera Superbowl converse your whole thing is wild so that it can actually show you a Hong Kong underneath and around it as if you're standing in that hour it can also be a radio operator hall of mirrors and that's what it turned and she and the fake final sack pace it's built up to the solution really accent action set pieces throughout actually find it really enjoyable intends it builds up to that one I'm not really reminded me of course my houses in Shanghai because the big sappy said not from ace and hall of mirrors that's where this violence comes to a climax and %HESITATION so it really made me think about large scale but of course using screen technology and supplies conversely technology please enter active screens as a souped up version of the whole of merry set pace it's a huge leap touch screen environment there's a screens that you're interested in a variety of different ways and so one of the ways is that a lot of things that you might not think our touch screen actually are catching some of one point why can't still the structure in the first place some G. thanks bye chin Han okay %HESITATION this is where he goes into a ring which just seems to have three windows on one side looking after sixty years of journalism press handle on it she was a delight because it's not actually win the right screen which is cover for what he said and so things that don't even look like screen our screens this one point where any hand on the head of the line I think and it closed green as it takes his palm print those things which we not see other guys not security you know the fan is seen as the one he stitches up work somewhere his former colleague he stepped to sum up %HESITATION yes it was it's hand bringing an end to the meeting just on the screen hang on the windows and freight Burke latest this would have been incredible for her back the virtual window last year windows and screens basically there's a meeting be done using sure thing the firm is bigger how to have huge crowds at ground level watching the drama right the small digested unions are also watching on when they finally emerged in the building at the end and it's a kind of reuniting the family saying this story space audience have been watching the story of big screens of course I haven't been watching time discussing the kind of stuff you can film from a helicopter that's outside the building then we watch any footage from inside the building so as far as they're concerned there's been a surge protection from the outside the purpose of which they don't understand and then these people come out and they're okay but then it would be not and that's it so what we have in him is wrapping this story space version of us is the audience thanks in the in front of the characters doing a proxy of what we're supposed to be doing which is really celebrating the success of these characters I wonder to what extent we can identify them since trying to re write her %HESITATION seis nine Latin search there's lots of shots of people in the crowd and your niece watching through their phones or holding your homes up to found on watching it seems timely getting instant mediation what Sawyer might be doing the times that he comes right side there was one particular where the wire he needs to call to get access into the pan hice to be able to attempt to bring his daughter he needs to do this whole other fate of brilliance and spider man I the building is in talks with her he smiled too great %HESITATION style find but he has to go right side mesh part where of course he's trying to get back in and he's hanging from the rope that's hanging from his staggering the prosthetic leg is something we need to go into town three hanging outside of courses Lancaster reading to break apart with the way it's it's all right taxis time going there and then there should cost the card is your main lesson there Collins and I couldn't help but thanks operated New York centaurs partners nine eleven but people were selling the likes of suckling lamb and I couldn't help wondering is this a way of re writing not because that image circulated so and sent my arms %HESITATION should say and has been used in so many different ways and it can be wrapped in lots of different ways and that causes lots of debate Sir what would you do if you were in that situation would you say in the burning falling building bridges jump that takes the idea off socks %HESITATION either dying and another day program state or taking control but many might see it as the cards why always maybe some last burst of freedom because you've got a ton of me too Jones and she have making it quick celebrating experience during welcome %HESITATION I just remember debates about that kind of thing happening and what if you change the narrative what if he changed axing the guy down the fire broke being able to kind this way back in the masters two separate occasions when he's hanging off the edge of this building and one it's when the first cases were in the building it doesn't quite make it and so he's the age limit the best time to get into and he grabs a bit of twisted metal is hanging off the edge and just hang on the edge of it this is the middle of the spring and then second time is when he's dangling by a rope that's taxes and prosthetic foot and I'm thinking okay we've seen how this things attached to his stomach he's gonna be slipping up I don't have his own prosthetic foot very quickly but I'm I'm just to recover and so yeah this is the falling man climbing back up into the building and finding a way to make it so that the building can be sorry the price and terrorists the only ones who done the fact of having a floor which is on form to be a big part of the plot of this film because it's something that the ninety six four yeah really first set the fire and it's a chemical formula that is actually caused by the sprinklers coming on so this bill is using the mountains and Arctic fence against it and then the whole point is the building has technology for containing fires within compartments no just regular folk with a possible there anyway if I could spread from one part of the building to another is even as if the fire suppression measures are taken offline this remote control okay so this up to calm his way for a good chunk of from what we're saying is just one shoe on fire and then of course the planned terrorist happens to get control of this remote control facility and shut down for safety measures and even do things when they open up the fence and so the options being sucked into the floors that are far the result of that is the first US respondents before long the settlements by the floors on fire I will that's fine but then above it that's the high pressure situations situations and the film is all about getting that situation power under control even at the point when the fines reached its way to the very top floor it's still brought under control again so you know it seems to be a really intense fantasy of twin towers thing being flown into the tires which is completely impossible and what about that is that it's a way of taking that going not we are going to fix it strikes me initially as really is your ass on consciousness really still trying to deal with are actually back in the nineties and noughties America still re fighting the Vietnam War and lots of difference in my C. R. S. and that was well over twenty years off to market record problems %HESITATION so yeah still seems completely sensible one of his big we apologize now hi Angela I think that and then I think there's an obsession of great possible dangers of high rise that thing as well in the dystopian surround I was thinking of high rice you've been lately your short last year and the year before opposite of this from me first ever car just more at this similarity actually is and that the architects house the very special paradise like Tyson very tall maybe there's a so actually I think the film is there's a lot more to it than just starring in Fargo trying hard to connect those different things both of those jokes as well because I think with time I know it's been years since I've seen at home you know I think D. six fire chief I thank the thing is that some kind of bias being constructed and they haven't taken the right precautions isn't that like take time like rice that some higher I think it's his family his wife at least he's been out of party where they've been at a party and because between Hammond St craziness not that cuts between them being heroes it's Paul Newman's character's wife he stopped %HESITATION so and distressed person but I think she's quite a strong character effort remember correctly she's leading people through the fence she's keeping paper all together organize saying survivors after Iraq correcting things but maybe fourteen when I saw it on TV so sketchy I think would die hard she does things differently there are similarities but does he think that many I mean I think we were saying earlier when Johnston's shirt largely stays on and we're used to seeing during Johnson's office find other ways to draw attention to his folk yeah the character of band he stitched up when they embrace and encourage me whoa we're talking as well very well this is John McCain and how's the record with their police officer he's on the crimes yes it is sergeant Howell our panel and the other was a definite no to that for most the police chief who's in charge of all operations at ground level in skyscraper having no relationship whatsoever no he should restore its relationships media canister you screens at St you said H. coming in my house so you're saying things that he says will ever thing or elsewhere because there's a part where you got to call back to the building and I never understood high because you go to folks she's accidentally anyway so it's a one sided relationship this time but actually it's also immediate it's very neat combos character Sarah Smith so it's mediated three Sarah having dealings with the place directly and she'd be able to help they suspect turned yet they give her a police jacket to wear even when they're still suspecting her name might be involved in something like that turns light that she can speak their language she explains I think it's going does different things that I wonder because she said there but her character there's an implication and their lives and the United States say you don't know what she may still have her career fair in Hong Kong for her husband's business that doesn't mean she's no longer search and yeah this was the phone just by not mentioning having occurred so trains are quite young there is a sense that she is an absolute super woman why it's really welcome I think when we won women being represented more info we want well rounded characters we want them to be peaceful but then again it is an action may be and of course all the heroic characters are going to be super humans online but it is just a bit frustrating that and your landscaping %HESITATION experience right kids saving your lives she has on the train surgeons or surgeon it was also on the track and the languages I suppose yeah that's one of the downsides of trying to create parents is that the implication is that ninety nine point nine percent of people wouldn't be able to do this networks and non identifiable currency are there %HESITATION we're talking on the way home that the character of the damsel in distress since you've been transferred on to the children yeah as the others what we normally do have personalities they just have things about your letter plot points well the boy does look gory and graphic trends in the names of children %HESITATION yes and Henry's last Monday show courses fires more of a problem for him and the rest of them I had higher hopes she gets that up so the moms with the boy and that's with the girls I was hoping for an award because she did seem to just revert to a help me actually and I really wanted to just write a guy in her arms or start yelling get off my Daddy or start beat writer if we go back twenty four years the true lies our task is daughter who's suddenly yanked into the store in the film has a bit of ingenuity and that she next this monarchy cynics and runs off she has a an attempt to try to undermine the terrorists are using her losses that was a more active Dorset behavior all right main male character then we go into custody I was wondering to what extent again it is as far as I talk to say he's he's becoming the all American hero during Johnson's coming to face a class I think to what extent is it the United States needs soccer hero archetype it's constantly user it's it's that he's going in as the same as family he doesn't give a fuck about the politics of why terrorists is set for building why they've attacked him and stole on this tablet it's not it's a bigger picture and anyway this bigger picture is commonly known as this one moment where we're going he's the leader of this group I don't think terrorists is the right word charm terrorists in the sense that they're doing on all a lot of violence and killing personal ideological now this is their driver's crime syndicate thirty five people justifies all the things that happened to them yeah over all right I'm when the head of the terrorists isms course both access to windows counter will sorry he says if you don't open these doors here on a three would go for this building and that's the shock is not over the shoulder shot a person talking to sort of sorts face during Johnson's face it's been quite frankly by that point is being held up by the wrong parties to you guys and as the show if he's initially borrowed heads and these heavy lifts up stairs Virginia I it's not I will have to watch to get serious even our eight some of the stories him interacting with kids using the line which is yes that's it yeah and they checked me I mean it's also not as him carrying them holding them and as far as the firm also has these two images of people not stirring proper carrots kits because very early on we have the thing which costs sorters leg very little of it is explained it's the ten years ago seeing a male character who seems to tell the police officer and is taking his own family hostage in the house and when the swat team coming he's actually holding you learn something from him as human shield enemy question down reveals this way this was a vast and virtually the same of course it's a Brian this is one five zero the end gets it's just him there are always other critiques in jail it's just him and he's because practice sorry already turns round and of course is holding Georgia so you go to in front of them and run with that much of a shock grades caricature is contrasted with this hearty evil regard for kids one thing about those is set because he uses the screens J. orchestrate something there to make it look like he's facing nine back when actually he's behind him but photo was turned that way I should have seen him approach so %HESITATION novels we I don't think it would take some of that it's just a trophy %HESITATION largely there was no threat so I guess who's been on five hours yeah how does anything because the number of the end sure Sir was like turn on the finest person system again on every single for the entire building CO two starts being spread out of this forest person system in it chokes the four okay fine for a little bit I don't miss this anything above fifty also flows that are on trial work and everything been melted by that point how does the building still standing finds been intense most youngsters here you can't really cook at it with too many cigarettes even gentle questioning at %HESITATION rivals cinema scenes yet you won't get to it shortly the violence is pretty intense and require a lot of swearing given this a twelve day I just it's the opposite occurred and I will send her away this is how markings on it took about nine it's about things being well done he was there some competition because I be eligible for a U. certificate so this thing in the world and well right now okay I tell you I'm not telling you to go back and listen to every single we're talking about that well done to all right you know it was nearly a fifty that's when you start terms now and the second yeah I just saw it was a really tall and telling me nicely to so some of those effects on both her kids given that people take really small kids and twelve ways let's take a moment to consider the fact that our main protagonist having a person doing Johnson's character was apparently partly inspired by and when Johnson was trained by an actual MPG the end his name is escaping me I'd just rather they think I can't remember what website it was that I saw the article it was something I saw on Twitter I know on Twitter as much at the moment because my smartphone is dead this is one thing %HESITATION I so I think it cracked on it because the article headlined his post some since J. C. M. P. che thing and that needs council's character was a strong woman something like that I hope both these things quite interesting story the technique called me but I read it because that's all in the family I Kerr so I'm quite keen to see this night I read the headline and I solo women being strong characters as Polegate but I actually just want to be like people maybe because we're kind of springing back that you get a level playing field has been depressed for so long the spring back and then it will finally reach level the Caribbean here's NBC's called Jeff glass front okay so he does a lot of training with them I was reading about it thanks again this is green but when are we going to get to the point where I have to laugh peachy place not PC character this technician of this conversation before by actors playing characters in films and so on so forth at the same time might smarting %HESITATION yesterday morning I saw a story and it was something that led me to the guardian but then one of the top ten headlines with safari Scarlett Johanson blocking our user roles because to play charms character and it says female to male transaction a lot of times activists were really upset about that she seems to have listened to them and taken on board and she backed projects said it wasn't clear whether the project is going to go for rich after this I thought that was and since this is still fired a fresh memory after the ride over her casting and ghost in the shell being an example of whitewashing I think it's quite similar and she is using your probiotic doctors and disabled roles and then I think your gold record center here like this you have to bring into question the term this vehicle as we mentioned when he signed going from this past Saturday buy side thing and Stefan that he can pull the bag off and still put himself up sorry that part of one of his legs and saves his life that he's able to call he does manage to move extremely far off passing well for someone who at some points in the film doesn't have a sponsor he uses it to teach %HESITATION the door open when the door to the pet crisis closing in after he's gone through a lot can open its closing the user selected job open I mean this thing really should be in pieces and also I suppose in a way X. Max is quite a bit of probation I have is that he's cooperating quite advanced prosthetic my guess is that if you have a prosthetic the number one thing is that because it's not connected to your scope of work bearing the love your body is a flush of your system and seven can mean lots of chafing lots of cruising and just need a second wife and this is somebody who puts a massive amount of weight on his stomach this is not a realistic I have to spend this legal route one yes this is the occasional bit of limping but he uses that thing as if it's not supposed to so I was nervous and every time there is if we need to stop her expedition moment he was standing up there having lots of conversations and he was standing up and I was going to come on night and knew this is fiction but he needs to set di he needs to get off our Lancaster office the concern hello just for a reason but yes he is I can %HESITATION Superman's so you have to just ignore it Hey let's see action movies in which people and your mom is conscious but I can't think of an actual meeting with somebody and she use as much as his car those declining on the financing it will be when you get sort of sold the interacting with other people in a way that Mrs dominate them is featured in the trailers but let's just mention that the jumping off of crying through the open space between the grand opening into a window he smashed in the building using the Honda crying you just talking to jump when it starts to kick off and he said in Hong Kong he's been advance apartment it seems things kicked off between them I said mystery that's %HESITATION going dying and I think and what compels you to steal a placement right instead of talking to the place obviously you don't get action movie but he commits crime you know it's one of those action movies where the hero house actually commit crimes shaping the hero and entirely gets away with it because they're the hero and they done a big thing when I actually hi Greg this is eating and trying to see if three people are secured %HESITATION the firm for which he's being chased by the police but the please thinking that he's in on it with our team has taken the building and I suppose it was been a refreshing change the we didn't have to wait until the end of the song for the place to realize this place seems to realize this court and there so all right his family or the building he's trying to get in the building so all right he's just trying to get inside his family company with no point to the ever say why didn't you just tell us we hope to see the law also requires that you can just say this is what's happening here's as much as I can get heat please help my family but of course you don't get option maybe with lots of action set pieces that need lots of digital design yeah we can your business but you always sit through all of the credit actually some very gold mines commission only very curse really paying attention to the credits for films such as skyscraper will reveal to you that the overwhelming majority the personally worked on this film with visual effects confidential voter so huge my neighbor goes into making any %HESITATION and on those sounds the lists are almost endless there's multiple companies yeah many just a single company doing the work but work a portioned out to multiple companies because the so much of it at one point was the credit just far enough so %HESITATION that's a lost on performance it was an action movie of course I'm in Austin I lost count at about a hundred and twenty stock performance and then also okay there's going to be roughly an equal amount of visual effects artists but number is ten times the amount of visual effects are still being listed on the various different companies some companies doing a lot more than others because of that loss of visual effects we have to get back here just to see if you have a long skinny the music the total was strong I focus on the use I don't think it's in her while the box office it's nothing as well as other things which doesn't mean something mild but nothing is finalised probably expected we have just seen it on the Sunday of its opening weekend of course by opening weekend we actually mean something that began on one on Wednesday Thursday and it's been really good weather so I don't know if that's a fact and how many people you can go in the Senate this week I don't even know what else is like this week hotel Transylvania three okay that seems to be the big one is up against I think that is the one I read is doing much better at the box office but it has already managed to gross itself offers a twenty five minute and hotel Transylvania the third in a series so it's got an inbuilt audience with kids certain Finnish goes %HESITATION I know very little about this I was thinking it would be nice to consult my former colleague Carrie Pattinson because he works on Hong Kong cinema especially the relationship between Hong Kong cinema and D. S. this is just directing this transnational today this %HESITATION most firms are anything it's really obvious that it's shaky these two places you accent Hong Kong one thing that did strike me as there is one moment when he's yes the size is going to tell police are there to you guys were trying to arrest investigation that's a real problem and that's about it for people in Hong Kong not speaking with everyone else that he interacts with those I would now Taylor that's awesome %HESITATION yeah it was the evil in the star nicely done the actual have the villains wasn't English he wasn't on Richmond but they had one of the villains one day by Marcello Lippi English nicer the main guy was European Hans Gruber not quite more so European origin well the universe would look like if whether this is true it's the best Christmas movie ever made despite the fact that same miracle on thirty fourth street even the extreme as long as that is how the Grinch stole Christmas is perfect have I suppose the catch phrases of the likes of die hards Hey what are you going is that the thing that they used to they were just they would have the main hero just before they're about to kill somebody make your grip okay fine it has a question doing effectively but also it makes the hero into a psychopath yes it makes me to somebody because okay how about security funds going to polls and make some sort of harm before I do it and then I'm going to be sent back to us joining you reflect on the main campus on campus finally this is been judged to be something we ought not to be doing that's a lack in this case have something I can help you listen is what you do during jobs which is that you're actually wrapped up the attentive until the tension just becomes too much to bear and you have to do you have to grab something or you have to turn to one side we just will face palm but you keep it really minimal and your attention that are entirety of civil wars I think it was better it's just my anxiety spends to buy out the past few years probably thirty years ago this makes sense for her like crap but not even my nine year everybody was fine and there is no real danger to anyone I was just find that really stressful to sensory so I think that says more about my mental health has deteriorated over the last twelve years senators by this is just how I am not I always love doing the ructions is going to see lesser I got really worried about we're becoming crazy fans think saving quite a lot of stuff including Jumanji welcome to check when the sun finally started playing right now because the rest of us yeah I was dubious about it for awhile but they refuse to regain its actually really enjoyed it on the first show is quite awful but I liked it when I was a kid I really like to men's units can chat there was a cartoon that I watched as well I thought it Jumanji welcome to the jungle ready harnesses clarity right and then the thing is good crack will perform on the seven one that's very special place in my heart I know there's problems with it still but I went to see it with a very dear friends we're both having a very difficult time reading and Manchester Salford areas we went out together a rough time and it was just a little moment of joy and a very difficult periods it's special first thing well doing jokes saying a repair this is the cynicism which according to into expunged from my being I didn't think he was the one doing the singing thank you nothing major in Hindi films with me to switch to somebody else okay nothing great it's I'm sorry sorry sorry I will personally right sorry latitude where there are ones where it's great because you know the S. like stocks Kalenjin Christmas switches from Chris says I would be surrounded on to something else voices during this star is about WXYZ hi he is holy rates nice guy I think he just seems to be S. R. lady everybody and your peace and everybody who works with him just as he spoke yes her son he's not somebody articles across social start this is the same time is this the guy he's a wrestler who's having a bit of a government acting yeah then with wrestling exacting anyway because it's so complicated it's math this call service does and then this goes this goes the distance you from one source of performance to another and then this course of styles he moved from mountaineering to Entertainment Tonight that's what and actually that brings us full circle we bet because with the screen name combo hoping quite formative in my some experience will always make fun of me from the Swiss Brendan Frasier of course that was fired during the rock Johnson hi it's me great clips and then let me take ours the schools are making cool thing that nearly ended his rugby career than that because the CG version of is or I think people are going to cut costs not his hope I was really bad it was he's pretty here those were probably very roughly H. system time nineteen since become less some options below Christmas memories five nine several so fast growth time periods when I was eighteen when I made the effort to try and watch basically every action movies of the eighties and I did very well in the long kind of action movies that definitely added new things new things that are in some cases were just new because they mixed armaments from several different things from home but that's not the way if you find our discussions interesting and useful please subscribe on iTunes give a small monthly pledge on peach tree on I'm trying to raise enough to pay a monthly subscription to sign copies to make every episode available on iTunes and other pop forms and to upgrade the website which can be fined up audio visual cultures dot wordpress dot com thanks for listening and spread nowhere to catch you next time