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Audiovisual Cultures episode 121 – Grant Applications

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Paula Blair talks through a successful grant application to Arts Council England, radical honesty, and time-saving strategies. In this episode you’ll get advice on the stages of applying for a grant such as the necessary preparation, where to find specific guidance, compiling a budget and networking. Issues that arise include paying yourself and others fairly, identifying eligibility, what fund is right for your needs, and access requirements for submission. If you get something out of this or know someone who will, please share it.

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license. Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity. Recorded June 2022. Get early access to future episodes on Patreon.

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hello everyone thank hope you’re dating while you’re very welcome to the audio visual cultures the podcast three comments lots of different areas of film and the arts and media I’m your host Paula Blair and today I wanted to talk about his ground applications I’m gonna try to remember to you read my notes slowly and deliberately so that the auto transcription produced by my host a cast has the best chance of keeping up so that these notes which I have hundreds %HESITATION I’ve charted destroying at various times find nice had a bit of a child since usually when I’ve managed to get her to walk and it’s a little bit Sunday and I’ve managed to get some sun if you know me personally you know I cannot bear the coals and I find it really difficult to regulate my body temperature so I am basically a lizard Hey enjoys lying in the sun as much as possible I’ve been really congested it’s this past week but I just saw this was good opportunity to record this because a call quiet heists and the street is quiet at the moment and I just thought I’ll just start recording at least get the first section done so I’m gonna try in to this quite so earlier very free of course to speed it up if you want to read a story or you just want to hear me signed like pinky and perky or alone in the chipmunks whichever references preferable TA so then this can be a bit more accessible hopefully in case when they talk about aids proved useful sandy one and I really hope it well before I get into talking about eight grams applications I want to give my huge thanks to our awesome patrons on Patreon dot com forward slash a C. cultures and a big thanks as well to all of her followers Messner’s as opened in every episode lately we’ve been getting really lovely feedback and and creating a note from my dear friends Mister James hall he has been on the show before and am is a big supporter and Dick said that they just wanted to say that the last episodes of audio visual cultures was really good especially for the generous candor ax ax and that was referring to the episode one hundred and seventeen where I eat I just checked in with everybody and I talk about how things have been going so far this year so in a way this is a bit of a sequel so that so this is high one of the things I talked about it and not turn the heat as I mentioned applying for the grants that I’m going to tell you bites today thought was successful so and I just wanted to share some stuff because it’s a ruling grants from arts council England a lot of people hi to every rind so if I can give back and help other people because there were people he helped me get mine then hopefully we can just keep that circularity main thing in get people more recognition for their work so those of you who know me personally or follow my personal kinds on the socials you might know that hyphen Trent it really take my life and career and hands this year so I decided that twenty twenty two was the year in which I was determined to make things happen for myself I was feeling really stagnant appoints the podcast and I was feeling very stuck in terms of being able to get a job have more income and T. something west my skills and knowledge and developer writing career and there’s been a lot holding me back from all of those things so I’ve talked a bit about that in the past in may will come up again it’s not really going to be the focus of what I want to talk about today so I suppose it’s just giving you a bit of background about where I am and where I’ve been I knew going into the center of her that I needed to prepare myself mentally for a process that would involve a lot of rejection disappointment and feelings of failure and so I went into this trying to embrace failure and embrace it just not working I did just not happening inspired very much by Maisie hill he I’ve mentioned before you know I’m trying to realize and remember the thought to some have to mean anything about me S. I. M. rejected from jobs that I apply for even though I’m perfectly qualified leads and I have experience or transferable skills it doesn’t say anything about me as a person if I tried it and it hasn’t worked on aids and a lot of the times and may just be I haven’t beat the algorithm because that’s how a lot of recruitment searches work Miami is our applications are three programs algorithms that Packer eight certain words and if you don’t have to spas words that they’re looking for %HESITATION or at least not in the right places you’re gonna get chucked alright so they’re talking I perfectly good applications because sometimes humanness and even reading them so there’s a lot of factors that go into a not getting shortlisted for a check up but again that’s not what we’re talking about today but again part of the broader boxed off of all of this this is something I’ve been doing to normalize failure is I’ve been posting to my blog and that is find out P. A. B. L. A. I. R. dot blogspot dot com and I’ve been posting on the blog rejected cover letters and supporting statements and project proposals so this was I suppose a form of cathartic release as well as a way of setting the record show that I tried and not I continue to try and the face if all of that rejection so I’ve had some very warm responses to these as well and it’s got me thinking about how you dismayed I am that making the effort two times guter flowing prose and narratives can’t beat the algorithm and I find it really so less T. tryin rights statements that might speak the algorithm so I think that’s something I’ve realized by myself very recently and sites you know I need to think about what kind of writer I might that I feel like I cannot compromise on that anymore and I’ve been getting complimented a lot on the very personable way that I try to write and that is very much what the Scranton surprised that I’m I’m going to tell you about it so it’s a mentions in hundred and seventeen if the opposites ago I’ve been putting more energy into seeing what I’m saying S. H. all these notes that is writing and that brings me to the my kidneys the so this block of notes I wrote on Thursday the second of June and on Monday the thirtieth of may I was notified that my application to the arts council England’s developing your creative practice grants scheme was successful no this episodes is releasing an eighth July when I should be in my research phase but as I write I haven’t told very many people and it’s been a real flurry of activity to get the paperwork sorted to secure the money and kept picking on to training courses and ordering backs because it started this week I’m recording this first block of what I want to say and this episodes on Friday the tenth of June I technically started to make rounds periods on Wednesday %HESITATION September first two days and really it’s two days a week up until the end of February so I basically have a part time job until the end of February at this point but I still got the money three but it was just one of the core says surrounding started on Thursday yesterday so I just got started with the whole thing this week I should stress that this is not a huge grounds but the point of this game S. T. buy yourself time and to get skilled up bits hi are you gonna step up your practice it’s with the intention of leading to your career development it’s basically the time and money in this space to really push three and step up with your career development what that means for me is it covers fees for some specific types of writing course fees to pay people for me to enter he and to get mentoring from and it will give me his face for my time spent developing the skills and then moving into testing ites the writing practice I want to develop I’m not writing practice is a creative critical practice that combines life riding our trading and creative nonfiction so it’s really space to experiment with those and see if I can develop a pic manuscripts from not kind of bland of things because you know me I can’t just do one thing here as we were talking about it and the previous episodes with Jordan lamb everything’s connected and for me things are very fluid and borderless so that’s exactly what my writing is going to pay it’s going to be from a personal perspective but it’s still I still wanted to have her bust researching criticism and analysis but also to be accessible creative nonfiction as well I want people to want to read it to enjoy reading at CP and rolled in the narratives and T. G. something that gets people excited about art and I said if it’s people he wouldn’t normally engage with art and culture even better so it’s quite big aims and intentions there so this is going to be as they say two days a week until February so I’ve got two days a week eight four console into February which is a massive relief U. S. I was mad as I was saying earlier I’ve made this really concentrated efforts over the past six months or so really since late twenty twenty one to apply for jobs and funding and the two things that have come of all of all of the many things I’ve applied for while they’re not a listing or earning me enough to have financial freedom you enough for their sense it is a bit of breathing space and it’s supposed to do with writing and there’s things that I really feel and taste of bytes limit excited about them so without feels goods and I don’t feel so bad about the rejections because you have to be perfectly honest to buy those things my motivations are always floods when I apply for certain jobs and these are the sorts of things I really want to say but it’s just a real pity that they’re not taken seriously enough that there’s actual proper page work especially if you’re trying to transition from a career paths that distant and quite go where you imagined it might and you turn it something different this feels really difficult since he’s out certain I and a lot of my friends have done this and it really hasn’t been easy and I think mine is quite directionless because I can only ever be a freelancer from this but again I digress what will happen quite a lot said bear with me as a side note I has been applying T. select academic positions I wasn’t applying for every job on the market hi Kerry had done before but select places around a certain places I would be prepared to go tape seeing that I’m not that wasn’t all it was applying for I was I was trying other things as well but I just didn’t have the precise experience that anybody was asking for to give me a chance and I haven’t done any volunteer work in those sectors at least not for quite a long time I just didn’t have the experience that they wanted they wanted somebody I think very often it’s not necessary that they wanted it sets people who have the experience or looking for appliance Seton Catholic and one of the Jacksons I had was really lovely and it showed to me that you’re a human being had actually read my application and appreciate at the thought that I put into it some thought felt really kids whereas all the other attractions I pod of to spend from it Charlie and just the same form rejection that everybody’s getting some of them coming three at midnight at the weekend which is really on professional universities stopped a month of April it’s not that I’m pulling it’s very at that time but it’s just I can see what time it sent out as not okay working ours plays like this is why there’s a massive crisis in academia the minute because you’re treating people like machines saying that applying for those academic positions and feeling very Mister play out it it should be why I wanted to re embrace rejection and failure I think of it more as reeling things right for me and making a decision for me so that I wouldn’t sign for it anymore I wouldn’t be going what ifs I feel sorry for me that you need to apply for stuff because she one hundred percent on cat it if you don’t apply and then if you apply and you don’t get it well that’s your decision made free eight there’s nothing else you can say about that and you know we stand because it sets when you’re young and you’re trying to date yet and you’re trying to ask people are you done it’s such a brave thing to do is to ask somebody all right again not something I never had very much success huts but it’s good because I would spend aegis pining over somebody and imagining that they were feeling the sting and bite me and they never were you know and hi many people who actually were interested in me was I ignoring because I was pining over somebody else he really didn’t want me in that way and it’s better to just know mean fantasizing sign but it’s better to just know where you are and things like that so that he can just move on and get on with something else and so wasting your time we’re so limited you know I can listen to me as a hell and her period part podcast has been really helpful in helping me I suppose firm up to those ideas I I knew that I should be thinking like thoughts but I wasn’t practicing it properly and I think listening to her has really urged me to date out properly because apart from anything I’m thirty seven I’m too old to pine over things and you know I’ve done enough mourning for the life that didn’t turn out to be for me you know it’s time to just get on with what is for me and get on with finding that you know so with academia as well there’s a lot of troubling stuff going on in and it is a profession that is harming people one way or another it is harming people I’m a survivor of thought harm and I know %HESITATION of folk he didn’t make it and they didn’t make it in the most heart breaking of Weiss you know when I have other people in my life here also survivors he I’ve also been transitioning away from it it is like coming out of an abusive relationship and it’s just takes a lot of time to work outside of your system and find another way especially when if you were like me you really need to go if I you you want to thought sure life and your career and G. three yourself and to identifying yourself and not why that’s a lot to let go of it really is see you so I don’t say any of this lightly a toll but I do feel that I’m done and then I have something else to offer that I have other things that I can find content content because that really doesn’t matter so much more than the job and that means I’m even more happy to have been offered this grounds it really means a lot it’s really validating it gives me permission to try something I didn’t believe for the longest time was open to me to try that’s why I wanted to take time to talk through this in case anyone who listens regularly or he stumbles upon this right there on the internet this is for you Hey this is to try and communicate to people thank you you can feel that maybe those opportunities can be for you Terry or that you can dare to try even when you don’t really believe last because you one hundred percent won’t get it if you don’t try so I want you to feel like he can and you should just try just give it a try what are you going to lace ET and a chance that something might happen I also wanted to talk three my experience of this application process in case any of the tapes on the approaches to applying for a grant could be useful more broadly so this is going to be really specific to the arts council England and this particular phone said D. Y. C. P. fund that is quite a personal funds it’s primarily for individuals who may be very very small grapes it’s to develop your practice and it’s a small ground it’s between two and ten Tyson’s pines but I will try to generalize as much as I possibly can and Casey advice as transferable wherever you are a lot of this advice is also coming from the very generous people he picked their own experiences online and he attended supports and discussion sessions and contributed their own experiences so so much of what I’m gonna tell you E. as not just coming from maybe it’s coming from a really wide range of people who’ve been really generous and shared dais of so I’m trying to share it as well his the Marvis to can be successful the better for the arts this is better for us old and more office can access these things solo getting awarded the grant is my achievement I did take advice from many sources and Bob have full of preparation and generous sharing please K. E. T. my first time success I mean not as a point in itself when I say first time I mean it’s the first time I completed the submission this is important because my first point is that the application needs to be led by a genuine idea and needs to be something that you are doing or that you want to be able to say something you have an idea for already and that you can’t make that step with the help of the arts counselor here for the funding party as an autumn twenty twenty for a long box three to the S. I wanted to apply for a much more ambitious projects grants from arts council England and I designed a podcast series specifically to apply for that night the idea it was an aids kids it’s a solid idea could still be done but I brown it passed a few people and they thought it would be really axle and they thought it was a great idea it really has my ex and I should go for it but when it came to the crux my motivation was wrong I was staying at as an attempt to make paid work for myself and it wasn’t necessarily work my heart was truly and also the things I budgeted a rinds kept changing and the people I wanted to involve also had dramatic changes in circumstances and one person actually died of cold foods another became debilitating the L. so then mentally I wasn’t in a good place to be overcome and keep everything every time something else happens I felt more and more frivolous and it felt more Mar few tile because people I wanted to involve just Martin bear anymore and and the scientists possible ways and this was a dear friend as well so it was quite a tough time anyway and it is best to step back and just give it a better time I made the decision to leave it and then twenty twenty one I may use increasingly towards working on myself both in terms of my house and professionally I just felt increasingly that I couldn’t be part of a team and property contributes or needs when I’m broken and I was feeling unrest so that’s what he said I took some time I it’s kept up to podcasts they kept up momentum on this show but otherwise and you know I’ve tried to do the paths of writing but I think even that one by the way side in this twenty twenty one and by the end of that year I was better at going okay you need to set clear pine trees and communicate them because I think this is been a big problem with me is that I haven’t seen clear enough supply my own pine trees even to myself and that can lead to you feeling like people are walking all over you and taking advantage when sometimes you need to look at your own behavior and thank well you said it’s that person yeah sure just give me insight I can help I’m happy to help and then when they take your phone masts it’s just a taking up and not more than you anticipate it’s on more than you actually felt comfortable with he got annoyed with them and you have to sing that’s not really fair because you’re the one he said yeah sure and then just expected them to know what was too much not some already fire so I think communication is really the key there and even being clear in myself you’re anticipating no if that becomes too much I look at cranky again he’s at somebody really doesn’t deserve it that’s just not a cast so far so it’s a P. I think just about self evaluation and self awareness is really important and I felt that the only person who could take any of that and hand with me it was signed to me to sort out all right it’s no one else’s responsibility and I started writing again and I have been without really realizing it what I’ve been doing is attempting radical honesty maybe that’s too much I don’t know but I suppose I’ve just been trying to be honest and my writing even when that means confronting something potentially unpleasant by myself because I think in doing that I’m not putting myself dying it’s not being self deprecating it’s a way of I suppose and our need to empathize with yourself as an M. perfect being and then hopefully you can empathize with other humans he are also imperfect moral just voluntary not really knowing how to get this human being saying rights I fell in love with art again and I leaned into that’s a big part of that was the Turner prize show to be honest those shows so not just the shipping not just a radical access but I think the whole show %HESITATION who’s a real celebration of creativity and possibility and working C. Cassar and community so I think that really helps to sparks me up again got me on my way inspired me to start writing again so I really leaned into what I enjoy what I take comfort from I started tracking my menstrual cycle so that I can learn what to expect from my mates and my energy levels and highly unlikely to be affected my brain and my thinking and I am getting better at saying no I’m not happy by thoughts and being more discerning about what I say yes to you on what the terms of that yes might be something I’ve done it seems like quite a small thing but it’s actually really changed the game for me I am priest increasingly automated systems so my pre energy S. and I was taken up by a three inning minds of Othman then I’m not really getting paid for you know I’ve been guesting on other podcasts and I’ve been nicking ideas from high they deal with their guests so it been using Collins lady finally to arrange appointments it’s amazing how powerful it fails to just block off loads of time say none of those days are appropriate none of those times our progress if you want to negotiate something because we’re dating of the timezone okay but it is just sending a message of a company to invest millions of emails back and forth so all the information is and not the kind of stuff they do things like that and with help from other places I got myself into a better mindset and a place of much more as they say radical on the stage and really confronting myself I’m not and I’m self abusing way Hey and a and a very realistic way basically what we say analysts are of having a word with yourself it’s just you know I’m catching myself on this would have been saying and that’s why I was able to go right that should try this and just be open about trans stuff and seeing how it went there’s nothing left today’s iPhone plan a fun mocking a fight with different approaches to our trading and self writing for a really long time get known for fifteen years nine but in some ways maybe a lot longer than that and I’ve always wanted it to be accessible because my learning about art and artists film wasn’t always accessible in fact a lot of it was right right combative and I think this is something I talked about it with Robertson St I’ve done a couple of things with him on my own you tube channel there’s an N. conversation between us and I pretty sure we talked about this specifically and the episode of sunny punks I did with Robert a bites my it’s Aron I think we talked about our film education and a specific person who taught us artists cinema he was a great person great academic terrible teach sure that’s the sort of inspiration I hides I don’t know what it is what you call it when you’re inspired to do the opposite way of somebody puts out was when I traded in my teaching was everything that person didn’t date you know and I feel very strongly that art and creativity should be for everyone not the a late fee he got to determine tastes and fashions and the PO’s words I want to make accessible to others what was not accessible to me what did not feel accessible to me as somebody from a disadvantaged working class backgrounds he was never in the habit of going to E. R. calories before the age of about eight twenty to hear something and even after that even when I was doing a PhD on a lot of that stuff are you still didn’t feel silly welcome and the spaces or that I was allowed to be in them and I don’t want people feeling that way about the arts I think they should be for everyone that has taken a while for me to believe this is possible and a few good friends have been fundamental and convincing me of laughs my dear friends Sophia grace Borda and twine Miller has been championing me and my work for years they’re not the only ones but these two in particular I think over the past couple of years have just been very quietly behind the scenes checking in on me and just supporting my work and certain ways and on those of you who to be has been really really supportive and lots of different ways I think the way they’ve been dating and and has mental and I’m I’m not sure that they know the top so I just wanted to put it right there you know Sylvia and the past two years has got me work Sri SA commissions and she’s pasted me west catch ups over Skype working with an E. at our time difference because she’s right in British Columbia why has been amazing and encouraging my creativity I paraphrased her actually and my arts council application when I told them that a compliment I get for my writing ng is set it’s as if I’m sitting telling it’s TA over a cuppa and that makes me feel so warm inside and I want all of my writing to come across our way is if I’m sitting having a Natter with CA if I’m to develop a style it should be that that’s what I intend today that’s what I am experimenting with all the time because when we are relaxed we can enjoy things and learning and sharing ideas should be enjoyable and I think it should be joyous there’s so little to be positive for bites and the world at the moment it is terrifying I thought her there’s awful things happening terrible conflicts and rights are being stripped away that were hard fought for and it is scary there he knows who’s people fighting with each other on the internet a boy a couple they don’t personally know whose lives have just been laid bare for the world and they’re more concerned without then so much else thanks so much so much social injustice is happening and it’s pretty upsetting to me you know I just want this to be enjoyable joyous to feel contentment but today I mean dealing with difficult topics but it doesn’t have to be in a way that makes people feel guilty about everything all the time or is trying to cause a stir fights or I wanted to be rooted in empathy and compassion if we can do that and maybe that’s from the specific contacts and I’m coming from you know where have dealt with such complex cases of victim perpetrator dichotomies and the same person and I know hi complicated it’s things casts so I really try not to be judgmental and I and I do stress the tri part because I don’t always get this right I am human so that’s what I’m aiming today is not kind of writing practice and I am C. hone and develop that over the coming months that that’s got on to the six Assabet because I’ve bothered on a loft haven’t even really properly started yet I’m specifically to developing a creative critical non fiction writing practice with a view to producing back manuscript my topic is one I’ve been working on gradually since twenty seventeen so it’s been a slow log T. got to this point and inspiration from my friends the novelist and playwright J. A. Mensah who when I told her about using my blog to draft work that I’d Polish and refine for academic publication later asked a strictly why does it have to be academic what if the personal voice and transparency about your research journey is your voice and will be more fun and accessible to rate thought has been working on me Giuliana since November twenty nineteen you know so that’s really what I was staying that’s what I was working on when I was doing all those blog posts %HESITATION a by Chargers from the wreck of the unbelievable but then of course twenty twenty the enormity of the pandemic tickets toll and the strain of locked signs took their toll and I ran out of steam and it felt very frivolous and the face of so much collective trauma my freelance work straight after that year as well and the anxiety up I thought was really awful it was really a lot to overcome personally for me this missile really slow burn I had looked into the arts council funding for podcasting before as it sets and the hips are stringent and I felt disingenuous I experience I read carefully what you could apply for and then earlier this year I read up more carefully what you could apply for when going for developing your creative practice and it being a small grounds I figured that it would be a lot more manageable and attainable his this fund is all about the creator and it’s not about a project and can work two words projects you can produce something artifacts but it is a bite stepping up your skills and taking risks to expand what you Dave and this is really key I understand the fund you’re applying for and make sure you’re eligible a fundamental part of this game is identifying why yearly and white knight I’m not needs to be genuine and it needs to be convincing for me I was at a point where I couldn’t get myself any further on my own I need access to training and resources and paid time to experiment with site the anxiety of not earning money and feeling like the work was a luxury too far I feel like an upset a freeloader which I’ve probably mentioned before I feel like an absolute free loader and I’m not happy about it begin this money coming straight at validates me excuse me a part time job for the next four months so now I feel like I can settle into just doing the work because it is getting paid it feels the gentleman this point is important as well he needs to make sure that you and anyone else here involving is paid fairly cannot just paid not just paid a fee and a fee that actually work site at less than minimum wage okay the point of this is that people get paid properly for their labor no meaning despite people who’ve managed to get me a favor for some writing commissions I am very grateful for those you know I am but let’s all be honest here sometimes see in mind take at isn’t even that day rates for something that’s taken a couple of weeks to put together or maybe it’s something that I worked on for a couple of months and I might to money that wouldn’t even cover rent that’s the sort of thing I’m talking to buy this is proper paid time now this fund is public money and is provided by the government so you have to show why the work is important and can only be funded by top fund by that scheme by thought console private funding body so arts council England are fairly clear that they also need and turned to show central government hi much work involved he the arts have okay so this isn’t just for us this is for them to this is for all of us and the arts we have to show you the value of the arts in doing this we have to fight for their case and so making sure that you have a cute and realistic fee for your only upper is really power mind thoughts and Tyrone guidance as well you should be getting paid fairly and getting paid well for your work this is a tough one to figure right and I really needed help us initially I figured a fifty point day rates would be fine at two days a week thoughts when I arrived to us when I was working I’d eat our days on the a real living wage rounded up a bit I had seen this on an example of a six Assabet that was shared online I think I find it on the white jeep they have great resources if you’re applying for funding and I highly recommend having a look at their website to buy just all the stuff that they’re doing the doing great work so I thought about re it seems fair if somebody else had arrived at the same conclusion however Lela star in the film he runs the northeast cultural freelancers face spec grip and it says Anil rinds force of nature and northeast cultural spheres she hosted a really informative discussion on same there were only six of us there but it was so useful and supportive during that Leila was firm that you must ask for your birth as well as asking for what you need and she made this suggestion which I took on board to have sacked birthday rates depending on what kind of work you’re going to be daring so for example my day rates for the research and training thesis of my grounds timeline are more modest but more than the minimum I was previously allocating for myself and then my writing and editing rate is much higher than the than the training right because that’s when I’m going to be applying the new skills and actually working towards CPEC manuscripts %HESITATION I’m gonna have a lot more knowledge under my belt I’ll have from practicing I’ll have been really pitching up the scales so I will command a higher rate at that point and I think that’s something you come to be behind the door bites he has to know that you will commands that rate he will command this money and I think it’s well in my case to be just the racks of both tests I think given my academic publishing experience already I think I already shoots command a higher rates but people see as just starting our youths as she haven’t on that particular motive this thing before %HESITATION very much my writing and editing skills are already strong purchase taking a different direction on what I sympathizing with for a long time is really stepping up and becoming formalized and much more polished I think when you’re budgeting they can see and Ascari ends up bites day rates for certain skills and tasks so you don’t sell yourself short while remaining realistic he can’t ask for astronomical machines has to be a decent day rates enormity alone it’d RT rate or whatever just today read this a lot simpler and it was easier to work eight weeks since today part time in case anything else work sites and then I’d still be able to date but just pivoting at bats you know so you do need to give yourself the time to really plan if you find tax useful with your podcasts we’ve got two options for you you can subscribe to the audio visual cultures podcast when you change for captioned videos and you can visit all the visual cultures dot com and click the transcripts top both sites are linked in the show notes along with information like this episode sounds in this next part a few days later it’s snowy Monday the thirteenth of June and so in for my money becomes very I’ve had no notification then anything’s gone wrong so now it’s just a matter of waiting for the money so M. square an anxious tanks it doesn’t quite feel real yet until I actually have it but there we go so the next point I wanted to eat Turkey three was lacking in asking Orion’s is really important to get a general sense of doing the application I’m putting it together but also specifically and completing each statement that you need to make so depending on the type of phone that you’re going for you’re gonna have to break things Stein am I mistaken me it’s when I was saying my the initial one I try to go for which is a project grounds I wrote quite a bake T. PH proposal and that is not high he submit your information it’s all quite broken up and divided into separate sections you know there’s no point in actually writing I it’s a beautiful Lhasa he or a prose proposal I’m a you want to save with all the information it because it’s too much to unpack a old with arts council England they tend to ask you things in separate categories so you have to sit Mets individual answers for specific questions on you probably gonna have a word limit on that and then it can be quite constructive so that’s why it’s worse really looking around and really taking as much advice as she can kiss I was fully prepared for the Betty ness of it all and any funding body that you’re applying to you should provide guidance and arts council England does provide quite thorough guidance for filling in its forms and as I said before people are very generous at posting redacted copies of their submission and I will do that at some point in the future with mine you know you have to think about eight tests that the funding body wants to give you the money but yes the applicant have to convince them that you’re eligible and that you need it and that you need it from them I reiterate it really ought to be a genuine projects or goals that you really want to work to words he can’t really just play supermarket sweep when planning your budget you really need to plan a very carefully and needs to be things said he actually needs ands up properly researched costs C. conscious mind everything up to the nearest for example I’m doing a course one of the courses I’m doing costs a hundred and twenty nine pines it come right not up to a hundred and thirty or a hundred and fifty or something like that the pick the actual cost of it in there for them so they know exactly what you need and then as I mentioned check with the funding check with whatever it is you’re going for but I’ve put in a very modest contingency funds just in case prices went up before I was able to back but that may well be money that you end up not getting in the end you know R. II have to get back or something if it’s not used you have to be ready genuine and up from to buy thought you know so in my case is vile with researching my costs there are two writing courses and I’m going to be today and that sorry Keerthi ma on seat the practice and I’m developing and I probably could have done a lot more it’s just stays with the on the to read the timing worked tight while there were others I find and they were happening before the decision dates for the grounds so I couldn’t and create those because they’re happening after I would even find nights whether I kept the ground or not and you can’t spot to see things and you start to pay for something you already a ton because the whole point is that I can’t afford to do this just myself I need the money to pay for it you know so I’ve already started with those courses and I’m not a really short because it started before the money’s come straight but the money’s coming so you know I can manage for a couple of weeks and these courses it’s not just learning about the subject but it’s also %HESITATION that they give me a better community because I’m gonna have classmates and I’m gonna have it an instructor a teacher on each of those so we’ll have some guidance and mentoring even if it’s just for that specific period of time or for that specific practice but it will hold it’s a really good way of getting mentoring and a very structured way where he can also tested all rights as well because then I’m not really having to go and find somebody to be a specific mentor for me but I’m getting some kind of mentoring and feedback which is get them you know in a structured way and not and not necessarily just from the instructor but from peers as well for me as well there are also specific people that I want to see interviewee and I’ve given a clear justification for who those people are and I’ve allocated a generous day rates to offer to them and then that Sir my contingency comes in as well so if I offer somebody a particular Reetz and they say I’ll do it for and if I have enough budget for the laughs then maybe I can a great slots so you really do need to take the time to research I think three I think what is fair what is a favorite to pay people so it’s good to see look around at what’s a good rates C. pay for someone’s expertise as well as your own you really do need time to research and think through all of these aspects of menu clear on them you can right stronger proposals statements and bills here narratives that will convincingly addressed the Y. ye and Y. noisy questions in a specific fund for the D. Y. C. P. funds and likely many others I had to ask someone for a letter of support to submit with my application one of the participants in the northeast creative freelancers coal eight talks about it earlier had previously had a successful bids and really generously shared their letter of support and they stress that it was from an organization and it was an organization that the arts council also part funds on a regular basis and the letter that was submitted to post on the organization’s headed latter paper lucky but it’s part of the narrative as well I suppose I was in a good position to be able to do something quite similar because I was able to ask someone who is both a friend of mine but is somebody who had actually commissioned me to do something for it an arts council funded projects that they had before and then they were really happy because they were happy with my work on that and we’ve got a really good relationship the make already ninety some sort of working friendship as well as an actual friendship and they were really happy to see right the latter to endorse me on behalf of their organization so do you really think about it what networking you’ve already done what organizations or people or businesses or whatever it might be he T. already have that you’ve got a good relationship with and if he hung on any of that where can you build one where could you start to the network and and she sure south to people and be a presence so that he can try and build that up and make yourself known to people so that they’ll be really happy to endorse you process kind of ladder you know and if it’s relevant to the the thing you’re applying for then not so much the better this was something that my person could say as well as that they were looking for it’s being able to work with me again and that this would open up the possibility for staying a lot more workshops to gather because I’ll have a live streaming and I’ll be able to pass it on to other people so that was a really big bonuses at yes it’s all about it maybe but then is there another step to it when it comes to writing your own statements for the application follow to the latter the guidance provided it and look for a relevant examples online of this I really can’t stress that enough it doesn’t have to be worded perfectly and needs to be really clear what you’re talking about there needs to be very clear narrative of what it is you’re dating and a very clear justification you know very cleared all checks so what you’re saying so for arts council England the white jeep website has great resources and if you do an internet search there are quite a few individuals who share theirs in redacted form on their own websites and blogs that something I’m planning to G. as well for mine and I might even offer mindset the White Pete this wild so do you see quite those sorts of things but also check you cheap because there’s a lot of really helpful videos you know funding bodies like arts council England are actively trying to be more inclusive and they do you want people to win the money so our screen to linger in house a channel for live video resources a lot of them have taxed talking images closed captions on their versions with British sign language as well so they’re really trying to be as inclusive as possible and they also need to make the case to the government that we should be awarding more suit to take their advice because they’re the ones here then talking directly to the government and convincing them that this is what people are capable of if you give them these grounds these are the positive things that can come of that use direct clear language right thank you human it’s fine to date short direct sentences that’s actually really ideal because there should be no ambiguity there should be nothing left for them to have to just figure it out for themselves it should be up so that they could hear what you’re saying and to remember G. experience things and tailor it concisely do you explain things that might be nice and don’t take for granted someone else’s knowledge of something or their understanding on the part of the people here assessing your application don’t assume they know everything about what you’re talking about it you need to explain it to them but anyway that just get some up to spades and it’s clear why it’s important and do you always try to get someone preferred place someone with maybe some application experience and success but just really anyone at all that you can get to death to have a look over what you’ve written and make sure it’s really care if they have questions or if they think of something that you might wanna ads and that’s really goods process you need to address those things if there are gaps and something soft not for the experience or if they think of something that you haven’t thought of yourself I shared my drafts with person I asked to provide money supporting statements and they made really great suggestions justice strengthen certain points and be even more convincing you know so it was a really useful process where sharing my drive to work so they were up to speed on what I what it was I was applying for but also they were able to feed back and say you know I know you might be up to see your word limit but can you eat out they send because I think that would really strengthen this particular point and then I would go and I’d federalist some saying I’d say right what words here are non essential and that’s why we did it and I would just find a better space even if it was just to be able to pay for words and see more clearly expressed something where the four words elsewhere that were expendable you want addictive suggested need to be there for example no with this specific grounds with developing your creative practice and I could likely applied see any kind of creative grant that he has spoke of the the case was just by any creative ground you need to supply a sample of your work for example if your portfolio and so this needs really careful consideration what are you going to show them what past prepares them for what it is she intend to stay with the money no because this fund is about developing your creative practice you need to show proof that you both already going in that direction but that’s some things preventing your progression and so the samples ought to indicates as well as back up your claims that you’re ready to step up and only need the right support and resources that only dot funder can provide to you so if you’re someone he has financial freedom and you can just go and buy your supplies and go into the course says this fund is not free a it’s for people who are prevented from being able to just state that it’s for people who are able to demonstrate like I’m on the pathway to this but I’m really stock because of financial reasons because of health reasons because of other stuff going on in my life I need the support and this is another point I was told the funder needs to feel need it this was something I was advice I think it was really left he advised S. he can only do it because of them and I again that still needs to come from an honest place it has to be genuine that it really can only be from them if you’re gonna go down that road you know if you’re gonna make a kind of claim as a safe you’re independently wealthy he need not apply because these funds are for people he just can’t do it by themselves regardless and it is based on needs and demonstrating that needs additionally this will be different from other funds but the developing your creative practice grounds do not expect a finished product they’re not by producing something there’s no end product the end product is that you have increased your skills and your knowledge and your ability to work you know that is standpoint it is preparing you for being able to go on and purchase a piece of work that you couldn’t have done the site this opportunity so if you have a goal for what you want to achieve from the development area it’s in my kiss it’s a back manuscripts and an idea of publishing options plus the ability and the confidence to pass my training and knowledge on to others then upset the day stay at that but it’s not a requirement you’re not required to have thought all figured out yet so whatever kind of funding you’re applying for the really clear on any I come to man’s the funding body has what is contingent on you getting the money and be clear on what your needs C. at the very least report on because even for fun like this you need to purchase a report at the end of it to get the last ten percent of the funds and it’s okay to feel I think failure is fine because the whole point of D. Y. C. P. S. dot E. experiment and you test things and the whole part of that process is that you can feel it thought and then maybe find your direction so as far as I’m aware it’s fine and completely encouraged to report on on anything like that you it’s best to be really up front about how things have gone and where you are by the end if the funding periods but this includes where things haven’t gone to plan I’m not should be okay as long as you’re transparent I thought and that you’ve done what you kids you may be a course didn’t turn right the way you thought it was going into the army of the life happens he and you couldn’t write as much as you thought you were going to be able to say there’s a particular person I want to enter V. I don’t know if I’ll be able to track that person’s nine NFL consent to that so that might be part of my project that feels and I am gonna try everything I can but I’m open to that no parking ites and this is another quick pointed by the budgeting of mentioned before that I’ve added a small contingency funds because prices could increase I may need more pics and I planned for because maybe their core specs for the courses I’m going to say that I don’t know about yet and not not has happened about two more picks than I’d planned C. because Sam they were suggested by the course and I’m currently saying but I’m actually under budget because I bought the backs from a second hands place resident brownie so I’ve managed to save a bit of budget and then I have a bit more for sex in stationary he said I’d originally planned so he can treat myself to some really nice notebooks because actually %HESITATION low note thanks so well the Hyundai for any on time travel as well because at the minute I haven’t planned in any trouble because I can see any part of this work I can do remotely I’ve gone for online courses the people I want to send to your get mentoring from we should be able to say everything if I as a means for example that need to be some travel will come up because what if the person I want to interview once Saddam persons that might involve travel for one or both of us and I’ll be on me so I think as long as it’s modest as long as it’s not a wild amount of money for me maybe I went too modest I asked for just a hundred pines for a buffer and that might not even turn out to be enough but I can pay somebody out of my own family F. I need today by the end if it’s not enough nice supposed to make an end to the fun part the submission process submitting your prepares application arts council England’s uses an online submission portal called around two AM I can’t speak for others but what I can tell you is that this particular form his user unfriendly sorry arts council but it is tray it is not an easy process even if you quite tacky the user interface is very counter intuitive a lot of the time I’m quite challenging to navigate it I think because of the language that she says and necessarily line shared of silicon take a bit of taking a rinds and consulting guidance for how to use it to be pretty find your way properly with what today so it is really quite complex and it is not self explanatory assistant example whatever it is you’re applying to he ever you’re planning to give yourself plenty of time to submit to go through the submission process I spent a few weeks gradually preparing and re drafting my application statements and documents and then when I came to submit it took me over two hours to get everything and and done properly it wasn’t just a matter of copying and pasting everything in there were ways of and petting information that were unexpected it’s there was just a lot to have to figure right as she went and to double check and make sure you got everything in the right place and all of this and I was warned I have been advised that it could be quite tricky so I submitted mine the day before the deadline and that meant I had heaps of time and I lost and panicked I briefly would advise against it even up to the wire you should make sure you’ve got heaps of time so that you don’t miss the deadline because just about everywhere I think it’s going to be really strict but thought so whatever system you’re going to have to use try to find people to talk today you have prior experience of it and be as prepared as you can maybe for any eventuality so for mine I had C. have a map that plan of action that was very clear in time today it adds and it doesn’t have to be rigid and it can change but there should be really clear phase says on a timeline that makes sense so it should show you how you’re planning to progress three year funding period on the ground teams form this takes quite awhile to fell in because she’s doing a little bit it’s individually he can’t just upload your spreadsheets are your table that you’ve made for yourself you have to fill it in and then their specific way filling N. which can take a bit of getting used to you have to look up what terms apply to be the type of thing that you hear and petting because they have a maybe a different way of wording what it is that you’re doing so it’s not a simple as so for example my resources that I was asking for the pics and better money for stationary not would come under assets to them so you need to look up water all these titles that they’re giving first things and what comes under that you know what is my stuff is relevant son you really do need to get an accurate so take the time to look at the guidance that’s provided to liquor bottle coins for each term so this can all take quite awhile to fill in but it will be easier if you have some needs tables or a spreadsheet for yourself as an example again I have a research and training phase then %HESITATION research and networking FIIs followed by a further training and practice VS and then a time to racy is culminating and mentoring and feedback some of this is determined by the timing of the courses that I’m saying %HESITATION so one of them is happening really quickly and then another one isn’t until late October so that’s why I’m a bit back and forth with the training it’s coming and we have some rather than in a chronological order in a way but %HESITATION Ryan does I’ve read it carefully worked at all all right so that it shoots get me wearing EM to pay from Jane until February budget planning here is also essential so I spoke earlier by working I could fees for yourself and anybody who’s involved be sure about it what’s it’s fine for you to ask for and again make a spreadsheet that calculates sold lots and to get to the penny due to the point and I stress again only ask for things the oxy genuinely needs and are eligible for depending on the funds you’re not going to be simply get a new laptop I’d effects and they typically won’t cover anything that you already have or pay for for personal use or other work the E. J. and must be a necessity that is specific to the project the budget can also be a bit bewildering seat and and conte M. E. need to state your overall better minds than break tying costings according to type you’ll need to be clear on what the costing type for each item is a sign which is to say can be counter intuitive the guidance provided by the funding body should have those things explains again G. read this property before and sharing your preparation and submission if you’re able to access it I think in the guidance it didn’t necessarily tell me exactly what the terms were and it wasn’t tell a call to the actual submission form so again just be prepared for that it’s going to take a better time to just ensure that you called the right categories for things an important note is ours consul England a lawyer for application support and if you have some sort of hindrance or difficulty in submitting your application and require access support throughout your project it is find out those for other funders to track their information on those sorts of things I can’t tell you much more beyond that this just exists because other than some confusion and mild swearing on the computer while I was submitting I managed assessment fine by myself but if you’re for example visually impaired dyslexic or have a disability that prohibits you from undertaken these kinds of tasks by yourself then you can have somebody help you with it and %HESITATION submit on your behalf and you can also apply to a separate access fund is not included in your bed of mine so you could go for a bit that’s the maximum amount that they’ll award should be on top of that you can also have access requirements on this if you need to pay for someone who can help you with things don’t pay for care but it’s paying somebody he needs today a lot of the administration for you because you’re not able to take yourself in order or if there’s some equipment that you needs that will help you with the process you those sorts of things night if like me he managed to be successful thank you Grachev nations butts the hard work is not over yet for arts council England’s definitely there’s still quite a bit of work cannot man two days before your money is secured on a lot you need to praise and be prepared to stay the first step was receiving an email telling me I had a decision okay it didn’t tell me what the decision was that was all it said I had a decision so go and sign in to grab the M. and go and get your decision matter for me I saw this when I was in the middle of the other things at once and I just needed to focus on both of those things so instead of just racing to grab them like I want to say I just not good sign and I need to do this other couple of things first and then when I was finished those and I was ready I went to ground CM I struggle to remember how I decide in the ground TM and then I struggle to figure right where this decision that it was high you to hang on I fumbled Orion’s until I go to open and realized I was being offered the grounds so much excitement but even when you get good news they don’t make it easy for you to find it so easy %HESITATION even when you won it’s still quite complex I had to then go through a work flow with quite a lot of more on clear language and instructions to work three accepting the offer and then I had to wait for the next two steps to become available to me because then they had to acknowledge and accept my acceptance of my offer and so then the next day one of those steps became available but I need to complete the other one first so I kept checking my email and then the next day it came as Terry and then I could go in depots and I’ve got those both things in motion and not again it took a bit of time and you need to get in read the instructions carefully you know there are things you shouldn’t submit and certain places and then she should submit in certain places so it is a bit stressful just making sure you’ve got all of this correct and these were important ones to do with banking and ensuring items today they had very careful instructions with lots of red tax show AT red tax so even though you’re excited it’s and you just want to get all confirmed and happening you really need to be calm and patience and careful and okay with going in circles a few times just to make sure you’re getting everything writes Anna’s I write this I am waiting to make sure that is all rights and then I’ll release the first ninety percent of my father and dying of my grounds to me so I’m still as I record this waiting for that I have had no confirm or deny that my bank details for all fine and I’m just waiting for something to happen so with this grant again you get the final ten percent on completion and as long as they’re satisfied and they’re satisfied with your report and if there’s anything where the money didn’t quite get used or anything like that then you probably won’t get top fella minds but just depends hi satisfied they are this is important to be aware of because if a lot of your grounds involves paying other people then you really ought to make sure you’re checking out first and pay yourself last you know so my final ten percent I’m planning for that to be just all of the rest of the fees that are rude to me and I’m gonna make sure I pay everybody else that’s involved before then that’s really yet so that’s much as I can tell you I hope it’s been useful I’ve really thrown quite a lot she over the past while it you know there’s a lot to get three and if you have any questions I’d really encourage you to please some summer public if possible so if you have questions don’t just email me up by them if you could comment on social media posts a bite this episode or on the U. H. shaped PH for this episode’s not would benefit more people and %HESITATION so we can do some community answering because there might be other people who have other experiences he might happen as well so if we could do that if we can keep that discussion public I’d really appreciate thoughts so that more people can benefit from this and get something out of it hopefully as well this is a very specific ground it’s very specific to me you know and it’s a very specific process so if we could all just shared that would be lovely I would be so great for other people the notes for this will be on the episode post on audio visual culture stock com this is episode one hundred and twenty one if you’re needing to search for that there is a search bar if you go to the website there is a search bar if you type in one twenty one one two one ground top the cations that shoots take you straight to the page I hope you can also comment and have a discussion on that page as well their comments available there to you know I really hope this is been useful and informative all the best with what ever you go for and please do you go for it the worst that can happen is she’ll learn something from the process so please go for %HESITATION it and do nothing could you count all right everybody take care of yourselves

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures Episode 120 – Jordan Mode with Jordan Lam

Show notes

Paula Blair speaks to Jordan Lam about being creative and developing a studio arts practice. In this fun and loose conversation you’ll get some insight into studying art at degree level, some details about graphic design and digital collage, and how it is to take a creative approach to life as well as to art. There are some details about Photoshop and other digital creative suites that the uninitiated may find surprising. We also touch on Jordan’s experience growing up bilingual and across two cultures, his interest in rap and reading, and why he likes to dress up as a banana. If you enjoy this chat, please give us a good rating and share with someone you think will like it.

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.

Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.

Recorded with Zencastr on 30 May 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings and see Jordan in his banana suit on Patreon.

Jordan Mode podcast: https://anchor.fm/jordanmode

Jordan and Paula connected via https://www.matchmaker.fm/

Automated Transcript

Every paid subscription to these posts funds the text editing needed to improve the accuracy of the automated transcripts provided by our host, Acast. Click the subscribe button to support this work for £5 a month, and be sure to check the box so you get early access to future posts ↓

and though you’re very welcome take audio visual cultures the podcast that delves into different areas FM media and the arts I am your host Paul left prior and in this episode I have a really fun and enlightening conversation with Jordan lamb but studying art developing a studio arts practice and generally being creative and having a good time having fun night if you’re one of our behind the scenes patrons over at Petri on dot com forward slash AV cultures there’s a special treat in store for you because as Jordan mentions he likes to dress up for special occasions and he considers doing a podcast recording like this to be one of those special occasions so for Phil video access to your conversation to look to see what Jordan is wearing do you join us at the behind the scenes here and you can see for yourself massive thanks to our amazing supporters are currently funding the website please see check out our latest audio visual cultures dot com everything you need sire and I updated it significantly back in may so please stay have a good price Orion %HESITATION salutes more stuff they’re noisy big thanks as well to each one of each for some lovely feet back on the seventeenth of may in twenty twenty two H. one that paid in an Instagram story Paul this podcast is full of so much heart and soul for the arts check out her episodes there’s something for everyone I really appreciate that too and I hope those sentiments come three again in this episode with Jordan as we talk by creativity and love for the craft D. enjoy while you can thank you yeah I’m a banana have always love the names you like when ants right from them is their very special very special things in the world yes they are so how are you doing this is Hey I’m good I’m good you know I I woke up today I wasn’t feeling that great I think I’m a bit say but I don’t know I just I remembered I can’t let P. down no I just can’t sell here I am that’s how you say it but if you’re not feeling well we can do this another time that is fine I’m committed committed Anna yes you’re very young as well so you’ve got your sights yeah by what gave it away I really appreciate it we’ll just let me know how you’re doing and if you’re not Feelin secrets we compose we can have a break whatever just whatever you’re comfortable with don’t feel like you have to pay straight because that’s not a good thing I did a lot of pushing straight when I was in my twenties and I aren’t tight catastrophic they so don’t do that to yourself okay okay Elena Fisher I can impart anything to the younger people don’t burn yourself side it’s not fun yeah I I understand I’ve burnt myself a couple times and that did not feel good so it is important to take breaks for sure so you’re very busy banana you got a lot going on which excels but more but the banana as stockholders to what you said earlier that you just love bananas sure yeah there’s a deeper meaning I guess it just represents my creative and find the side and just attitude about having fun and not caring what anyone else thinks because this in a way is a form of self expression now that is my artistic meaning but I also really like bananas so that is when it comes down to it you know I just love bananas that’s it C. love dressing entirely as a banana yeah yeah this very personal it’s door if it’s too personal it’s me going to wear places but do you have things you wear underneath your banana state today also have bananas on them %HESITATION is out for a price cut oh no no I’m just wearing a regular shirt and shorts because the okay the thing about the banana suit right in some kind of hot and stuffy I can’t even lie to you I don’t wear this every day you know I I I do it for important things important events you know warning I just wanna let you like it I guess yeah I like to have fun okay so it’s very hot and there were fights in the world are you Jordan I am in Sarasota Florida in the US of a I imagine that’s quite a warm place %HESITATION it’s really hot so you’re already warm and then you’re putting a really hot thing on your body after that so that its commitment I mean we need to adjust the distress a level of commitment we’re talking about here yeah I mean if AC did not exist I’ll probably have a heat stroke by now but now I’m fine so let’s keep it going you know push forward I’m hoping some of that heat radiates over to me because it’s spring time it’s late may I’m in the north east of England and it’s been very re in the in the cold here you know I’m wrapped up the scope a cardigan and cellphone because idea of dressing the same way as I was dressing most of the winter because it’s really cold here yeah while it’s spring in England it is somewhere here in Florida and is interesting wow yes well we we should be in summer but it doesn’t quite seem to want to test %HESITATION rife just yet okay we’re in summertime is it always cloudy there in England the part of England’s I list then it’s oxy a bit sunnier than some other places but because of where I am geographically we got very cold air a lot of the year the reason that we’ve had today is relatively rare it’s not as rainy as this usually is usually quite sunny but cooler I’m right beside the North Sea at which is a very cold spots on the arse the sort of arctic and Nordic air coming toing so there’s nice sunny weather can meet with the cold breeze sometimes so it’s a bit conflicted in this part but if you go to the northwest it’s really cloudy rainy rain at night a lot of the time okay it’s on the Irish Sea side it’s a lot more humid on that part I see yeah I want to visit one day and I’ve never been the state so I’m learning three people like you you know bumping into people like in the internet I’m learning notes by the United States so it’s great to be visiting Florida this time of mutually in LA or something like that on the internet so Lori this is different spin on things yeah you should visit if you like hot weather beaches Florida wild news I don’t know if you’ve heard of the Florida man but there’s a lot of stuff that happens in Florida that’s pretty crazy if you like hurricanes yes you you would have a fun time here in I think my associations with Florida and recently are from the good place you Jason Mendoza comes from Florida and the good place so it’s not the most positive depiction and then the Florida project as well so it’s like this immense wells decides to institutions so yeah I haven’t had a very positive spin on Florida yet yeah okay okay but if you like oranges that is what Florida has that’s positive right but they grow their own balance I I can’t answer that now maybe well they don’t really need taken several eating yeah I wherever I walk with the cost of one of the managers grows like from the ground CD going to bite and then so you’re saying you write for special things with the performance at TD your artwork and that what it what do you do in the real world in Europe and on the set well that’s that actually you gave me a great idea I should start doing that I should actually do this to create artwork I have a interesting relationship with this banana costume I’m a very naturally competitive person so when I get serious I put on the costume and it just seems like everything falls into place and everything just works out for me and then I win in the end every time S. sounds really weird but it’s like some people have their lucky charm right I have the banana so I do graphic design I’m studying to do studio are in the future N. when creating I don’t like I don’t wear anything not not life will need but like I wish certain into it you know right I wear clothing but not the banana suit because I need to be in a state of mind where I can just be free I’d try new things I think that’s when you create the greatest work of art when you are set with no limitations and you can go outside the your own box so don’t I try to trap yourself inside a box or try to contain yourself in in a cage with all these rules just experiment whether it be to Photoshop or podcasting in everything it all relates to one thing to another I was quite keen to learn more about your studies and what you’re hoping to say but you know what we are doing and you mentioned podcasting and hideouts links with your graphic design and you do make up the cast co Georgian modus alright yeah yes it’s quite fun I’ve listened to a few episodes at you know you seem to have conversations so I’ve been a bit Lacer with you I’ve tried to do mine tiny but like the way you do yours just go straight in the conversation %HESITATION rather than the structures interview it seems a bit more appropriate to just try and just give people a taster of the kind of thing that every day and you know it’s not very comfortable doing that because you know you you turn up and the way the each day and that remain she you don’t have to be serious %HESITATION professional right everything and being creative and I’m being a bit silly about fun it can be those things say so I think that’s a really nice reminder but which I like to tell folks about your podcast right yes so every time someone asked me when they were tells me when they listen to my podcast as find that kind of wild to believe like you really listen to my podcast that’s funny because I I just spew so much random stuff and I don’t want to swear on this podcast because I feel like that would just do whatever you’re comfortable with kids I I tend to try not to you just because I wanted to be as inclusive as possible by desire and therapist it’s where we desire more may be dealing with the topic where you’re coding something or it requires it %HESITATION it just slaps or whatever so just be comfortable just bear south okay my podcast Jordan mode is really just a journal for me for talking to people having great conversations throughout life I started it in December of twenty twenty one or is that yes yes I did okay end every conversation I’ve had since then has really changed me into the person I am now so it’s kind of interesting to think that it’s like a time capsule when you look at episode one you’re like oh I was so naive I was just a child when you’re up to the current episode and you’re like while what happened to me this is wild this is crazy and I I don’t take myself too seriously I just have fun having genuine conversations with people because everyone has a unique personality it is different in their own unique way you know everyone is in a different walk of life and everyone’s going to do something different so it’s interesting to understand how they came to be how they are and you know what they’re doing and you can learn so much from another person you can live through them vicariously you can stay in touch you can make a new friend you know relationships are so important and I learned about that in his speech or psychology class but either way both those classes have influenced me a lot because in speech if I never took a speech class in college I don’t think I would be this outspoken and speaking for a long period of time no I would just wait for the other person to respond or I wouldn’t be as outgoing as I am now so I think definitely more on the story is be yourself take classes if that interest you and just be creative test or not thirty N. I really admire that about eight the American in further and higher education system I mean there’s a there’s a lot of issues in terms of how much it costs and we’re following that increasingly in the U. K. but that you have these allow access classes that you can save quite early on we just don’t really have thought we don’t have those testers so you can share you can do this kind of class and I think that’s really fantastic the you can access something like that because I think here people think that you have to be super focused on what your degree pathway is and they don’t realize the merits of learning about other things like high must sign forms what is your pathway is you know that all these other things feed and slot so that’s pretty crazy here Hey did you go to college I did yeah I went to university articles three degrees %HESITATION while what degrees so my bachelor’s degree was in joint honors English and film studies so’s very traditional English as chair and I did a lot of Shakespeare lot of renaissance mature plays and drama and I did some Irish literature and fiction pieces I did some studies so fairly traditional from studies degree you know it was a lot of the old white European dates similar kind of sauce on it wasn’t tell a go into post graduate so they said it got a bit more interesting and you can go your own way a little bit more into your own research and things really right not timer starting to open up a bit more and people were going I think other kinds of people make films as well so maybe we could have a we look at those so it was starting to open night and get a bit more interesting then %HESITATION I started off saying and my masters in film he started off saying a lot more Asian cinema and a lot more now from cards from all over the world and a lot more women filmmakers use it was just getting a bit more diverse and stuff and then my PhD was summoned visual culture but it was yeah I was looking more assets convergence says between cinema and the visual arts more broadly so I was making more at video installation and live performance mixed media work and that sort of stuff so it really opens it out quite a bit well so you’ve always loved movies or films he had a life long ass to mazing while TV info my think it’s been a mainstay for majors I’ve always been so attracted to screens which isn’t you know necessarily the healthiest thing these days because our lives are just can change based grain culture the likes of a smartphone I mean not just was not a notion when I was a kid to so you know it’s weird to me that so many kids are just almost bored my smart phones in our hands a space right I remember a time when it was just long lines and that was it that made me so I think I spent like what you were saying earlier about conversations I think may face or where I’ve learned about the world and I’ve learned how to have empathy I’ve learned about other people’s stories and I’ve learned to buy other different types of people and because I grew up in such a very white yes and I was in the middle of a civil conflict as well as a young person so we were sure wind chiller we you know we nearby bets in pieces about what was going on in the world but we were pretty focused on ourselves as well it was a great SKF so it was a way of getting away from not but also just learning right this other stuff going on in the world to cease other types of people I fascinating SS no yeah now compared to when you were a kid do you find that you’re watching movies for the same reason I think so yeah I think learning from them is really important to me as much as being entertained by them I don’t expect to be entertained by phone but I hope to learn something from it if that makes sense right like the cinematography and the shots and how they all of that yeah yeah I’m I’m pretty much a nerd about all that stuff how are you I know nothing about making films yeah I I can like every time I watch a movie now I’m not looking so much as to be entertained I’m more looking at the shots and like what the director wants us to see is if you watch lake I don’t know if you watch the new doctor strange movie I don’t know if you’re into those I haven’t seen a memory in a behind on the the whole universe do you knows Sam Raimi %HESITATION yeah I know the summary Nancy I know he’s directed it yes so his like his style of directing like each back to what I was saying when everything’s connected right sorry my brain is literally like a multi verse you can tell it’s a Sam Raimi movie just by his style of directing his like he’s really into horror during the naval data right so and you can see aspects of that in the new movie exactly not a spoiler because he directed the movie but it’s also like you can tell what person created something whether it’s music whether it’s anything whether it’s movies TV anime C. N. do any creative medium you can just help because that’s their style is their personality and they’ve woven that into their creation and I think that’s just chef’s kiss so I love it yes I’m a I’m a real nerd for that safety because I really loved his spider man trilogy a lot of peoples and maybe like cat and spider man Terry I think it still stands up as probably one of the best probably the past spider man film of all of them there’s loads of Sam Raimi motifs sorry I thought I found loads of references loads of horror inflections you know things that are really quite similar to the the people that made base price combo of course getting account managers and stuff hello Hey I love noticing that because it makes you feel I think it makes you feel good to feed of noticing that stuff because it makes you feel quite clever that all yeah go that a lot one and yeah I got that reference the one thing Remy you sly dog so when you notice these references how happy does that make you feel these days it makes me happy because I went I remembered something while yeah I don’t know maybe it’s partly to do with some other personal stuff and party did you rest just pandemic general trauma but I really struggled with remembering things for the past couple of years and it feels good to just go I remember the thing for fifteen years ago I am so proud of myself today you know so it can be as simple as soft you know L. just fire something in me and there’s something deep dying because a lot of these movies when I was younger I watch them on harder Tatian you know they were comforting and the reputation mean gene you notice something different every time it’s slightly different maybe every time because she noticed something you didn’t quite pick up or before so their shot I I find a lot of pleasure in that it’s like a scavenger hunt that you’re you’re you’re finding things in every frame every scene okay I do like that too I think that for me I am so odd because I have a great memory I can’t even lie it’s so in order for me to watch a movie more than once it has to be really good because I I remember the gist I’m so late once the air again I am just feel as though once I’ve seen what a movie once I don’t need to see it again but that’s not for all please there is a a recent Marvel movie that came out was called more biz yeah that’s a movie I’m never going to see again I I thought it was bad yeah because I remembered at all but this time you will get back here yeah it’s you will not get back at you could spend your time doing something that leads me to another question did you ever walk out of the movie I have Sonya there was one by cost something just came from the recesses of my brain I remember walking out it is a short film that was being screened I went to it because some thirty students of mine hi it’s me it at and you I went to support them and it was the most misogynistic loaded on since like it was horrible it wasn’t just like these characters are like that it was the film itself was misogynistic so I think that’s a real big distinction there and I couldn’t spend any more time minutes company so I walked out of class I’m trying to think if there’s any examples from you something bigger mainstream or because usually I’ll I’ll end year or something because yeah you know I want to give it the time I wanna give it a chance cassette I think going to see something and certainly if you pay to go and say something and the sentiments very different from if you’re at home and you just now enjoying it and you give up and the theater I think I mean I don’t think I had since may be I was a kids I was just bored or something I don’t think that kinds as an adult I don’t think I’ve done not waste a feature length film okay so you have perseverance I can respect that I’ll try you know try and see it through to the end because I think you can really with us already say that was ater cock unless you go through it because you never know what’s going on the last twenty minutes you just never know and I returned it arrives you just come on give it a chance although I feel like if it was down to the last twenty minutes that is such a rare thing for it to turn it all around I mean there has been a movie recently that I did want to walk out okay but it wasn’t I don’t know how to describe it it was so I went with some friends he slept the entire movie so does give you an idea it was fantastic beasts three okay I thought that was so funny but I what I really wanted to see how it ended you know what you set up the whole plot I’m one of those people who are just so focused on the movie if I I can’t hear any distractions in the noon so I just but by the end I should have just walked out every everyone didn’t everyone wanted to walk out it just didn’t make sense a plot line didn’t make sense I’m not gonna go into it but you should watch it just over you should suffers a lot Polish yeah you understand what I’m see what I’m saying you know I’m very I haven’t seen any of those films yeah me neither I only lost third one okay think that was part of the problem do you need to have seen the first two of those possibly but at the same time it’s like if you really focus on her if you really like focus on each of the character threads like characters and stories brands even to someone who’s never seen the first two nine thank you can come to a conclusion where nothing makes sense okay you know it just falls into place perfectly like a dream and dreams don’t make sense it’s like that where something just pops into fruition even though it’s a magic movie like magic actually happens right so but it doesn’t make sense I don’t know how to describe it without spoiling it I’m sorry yeah now do you think you you’re drawn set maybe send stuff so much because of your graphic design and trusts you know you you you’re drawn to the veggie ology of things and high images are put together G. thing that’s where things are linking up for EA a start about that well before I got into graphic design as a kid growing up I’ve always loved movies so I guess yeah because I’ve always loved like visual stuff yeah I played a lot of games when I was a kid I was was fascinated by we’ll creating these moving images you know it was so cool only in L. I guess that’s what sparked my creativity the creative side and wanted to make graphics I love movies and my lover movies has played a part in my role in making graphic design and it’s also like spurred my love for other things other all forms of entertainment really it’s just it’s a it’s also a gateway drug really because once you start with one thing you exploring another then another then another so to answer your question I suppose so yes if you find tax useful with your podcasts we’ve got two options for you you can subscribe to the audio visual cultures podcast when you change for captioned videos and you can visit all the visual cultures dot com and click the transcripts top both sites are linked in the show notes along with information like this episode what CG at and your studies say Heidi failure studies are going at the moment I feel like I’m still a fledgling like that young Phoenix who hasn’t been re born yet so this doesn’t mean anything but I am certified in photo shop which basically means you know how to use Photoshop and I feel like I’m not at the level where I can design something as good as someone who’s been using or studying or doing graphic design in the field for analyte five years or something but at this point in my studies I’m still young but I still want to pursue this studio art thing and create R. N. up my skills you know because I wanna see where my potential wise I wanna create cool stuff and then again I’m still in the beginning stages and you don’t know where life’s going to take you and I do want to transfer to another university to further pursue my degree there so that that stage will probably be is so is there like a level after fledgling but before fully reborn that would be that okay thanks yeah in preparing for re first something like that yes like a volcano it worked eruption that’s interesting so should your practice so is this very practical things as well as computer based yeah creation A. K. A. ranges from the last time I looked it up on Google it was late photography ceramics graphic design painting all that stuff just in caps who waited in a broad term studio art and do you feel like you’re zoning tips check your things are you enjoying trying I different things so you still trying to find your way so the funny thing is I have been using Photoshop doing graphic design the visual aspects for not a long time I’ve only just begin and probably August twenty twenty one but I love it and it’s really helped me just appreciate how artists create things like visually and I love videos and films so that’s really got me into trying out video editing in stone S. I love photography to I think it’s cool plus you get so everything’s connected right you can use Photoshop to edit photos that you took with the camera N. you can honestly between video editing and graphic design you can interlace the two things you can edit say for example you can edit something in Photoshop and then put it in premiere pro and then vice versa and even with sound the entire adobe suite has not sponsored by them but they have this entire suite full of programs that you can use to do visual audio audio visual and it’s all connected you can honestly change things between different programs and that’s wild it’s crazy none that’s amazing yeah I think creative cloud is the dream if you can afford it so while you’ve got access to yet use the hallowed of it yeah that is really expensive when you’re on your own that’s great I know I think a lot of people don’t realize that a lot of photographs are added to you know a lot of professional photographs things that appear in newspapers and online articles and even photography competitions they are added its versions of the original image yeah of course I feel like at this point every time %HESITATION that photograph if it’s not edited it would have to be like the really just fresh like I was next to the photographer fresh for that not to be edited but yeah I mean definitely every photograph that’s like in a contest I mean it is not edited why is it there you know like it doesn’t look good yeah they did it because by editing I think remain as well it can just be coloring as you know yeah adding some coloration or just sharpening the lighting or you know it can be just that kind of thing and I think a bit you know a lot of people don’t realize that post production and film visual effects can be that sort of thing as well it’ll take a very realist image and just just tweak a color slightly and you know color great at sight they are out a bit more shadow or something like that that’s all based on the facts as well and we don’t just mean big C. GI Kashi Barney fights and stuff visual effects is a lot broader than all of that is just to make it because it just tweaking the color slightly you can change your major when you’re looking at the image I think so you know it can make you feel like all that C. is so deep and crisp and clear or thought sunset is so orange and red or paying or whatever I’ll just deep in that and that might make you have slightly more of an emotional response right Hey one time I took a class it was called color fundamentals and basically taught you the color wheel and in that class I learned that so each of the primary colors right so you get read orange blue those are probably not the primary colors but anyway either Hicks the point is great each shade of those colours is like invokes a different motion like connotation like light green that could mean that you know nature or something grass in blue you could probably think of water or call home you know it invokes different emotions I think that’s interesting and one other thing I wanted to say that yeah I don’t think a lot of people know how things get created and that’s like between like movies and stuff like that takes a lot of effort there’s camera work lot of production a lot of lighting and a lot of just scheduling also would like art anything with art you know they don’t know the specifics or even behind a podcaster right they don’t know how much Mike is or the shock mount that comes with it or the headphones you know it’s like it’s a lot and I feel like the who aren’t in in our field they don’t know just how artists create and hoping to change that it’s good to talk about it because I think I’m what I’ve listened to your podcast Adam sank thought has come up very much but it’s not something that you sometimes get and she is because she said you journal so do you talk about your pro sass do you talk about hate what you’re learning a month you try and what you feel out what works and that sort of stuff like in life or a lot of artists would say it’s all the same so it’s your artwork but it’s your license also okay folks true I don’t currently but I should not I think about it his arm I don’t really describe my process because I feel like nothing really changes how do I say this I don’t feel like enough changes for me to warrant me talking about my process no matter sorry I’m late really I can get in my head in the words just don’t come out so it’s like me describing my process now I don’t think anyone’s really interested in that to be honest it just short answer yeah in like no one asked me that so I’m I’m just like why should I bring it up thank you now yeah well well if I ask you know why can you give us a quick run through of your creative process what would you say how would you describe it well when I create something like visually like graphic design I just stare at the screen and then I close my eyes and I think what do I want to make today what do I want to do what can I do first of all let’s create let’s did make some layers right let’s put a splash of color let’s make some shapes you know let’s look at the internet let’s find some free images yes that was the term and let’s just build something mmhm and let’s be experimental with it and let’s just have fun with it and when I get burnt out I will take a break and I’m gonna come back to it so when I create R. I am very meticulous yes some people spend several days working on a project I do that as well I feel like once you feel like you can’t do anything more to it and you just you just feel that it’s in good good enough to your taste that’s when you’re finished that’s what I’ve learned about myself I’m very feel type of person I can be logical I guess but most of the time when it comes to creativity and art I just have to feel it C. ever very intuitive approach to what you make yes whether it comes to anything you know when I feel like I’ve done enough or maybe like when I feel that it’s perfect you know even if that night might not be perfect and nobody’s perfect or nothing is perfect it just to me when I feel like I can’t do anything more N. all my energy is just exhausted and I don’t want to work on this anymore because I put all my love and creativity and just thought into it then that peace is finished but signs thank you for calling the digital collage approach it’s not fair yeah that’s fair call us to me is always seemed like a very intuitive approach I knew like have been said collage workshops and people will Brady meticulously planned all right what they’re going to date before the second inning dying and I just rampage and then I go I’m gonna put that out there but not there and I’ll just do something and I’ll figure it out as I go you know and if I don’t like some sun I’ll get something else to cover it over you know on a layer it profits and tear it apart or something you know what I mean so I’m not I wonder if your digital collage approach as some similar but I suppose in digital it’s easy to tests Mason so late and that sort of thing so you know what what are the differences varying between like physically in individually yeah convenience and ease for digital yeah you can copy and paste so you don’t have to like get to more sheets of paper you know so it’s like it’s very easy with the simple keyboard click and the layers are just so easily manageable and you can really adjust the colors all in all you just like I it doesn’t compare to the feeling of actually physically and making a collage which is like really therapeutic but distillate I feel as though it’s just simpler and probably more either as or more time consuming because due to it being more easy or simple you like spend more time with it this could just be me like second guessing was this right what should I do this or do this instead right but at the end of the day both are lake trying to navigate out of the maze because when you reach a dead and you’re like oh wrong way I guess I’ll go the other way yeah so don’t trap yourself in a box pretty much basically %HESITATION N. in a collage physically you have scissors I guess known you don’t use scissors and actually you can cut I think in digital or info shop but don’t take my word on that I’ll probably have to see that when you create something she just leave it there and he just save and move on to the next saying or difficult boxes things and even just select them and go what was going on with me not say this or anything in there Sir that is true I I like add it to my portfolio and I like to look at it sometimes I’m like that and some kid are you know hi this is my own biggest fan and I went that relate to what you said yeah that is interesting what like what was I thinking when I created this most of the time I don’t create based on what I’m feeling I create on late what I can make what my skills at that level can create as weird as that sounds for an artist I feel like when you do different mediums for me when I do like graphic design I’m not doing it based off emotion I’m doing it based off of how cool can this look but you know but like when it comes to like music I feel like you can really get into your feelings when you know you told me before he died he topple and rock are you still saying a word yet still doing anything yeah so try yeah sorry I just sometimes I forget what I do %HESITATION yeah I love wrapping I’ve grown up listening to hip hop and rap because okay so the reason why I love rap is not because of well initially I listen to it because I thought it would make me cool something shall like that but as I’ve grown up I really fell in love with the interest like the skill of actually rapping like forget the B. in the music for a second let’s talk about the lyrics you know lyrics can actually invoke a lot of emotion and while you’re rhyming doing all these complicated rhyme schemes that’s crazy you know rapping is difficult I but I love it so much because there’s the pay off you know when you when you just go on to be to the music it’s almost as if you’re floating in the air because it’s just that it’s just that addicting that in there so much like to learn from their so much content out there and it’s like with the anything you know back to everything is connected when you when you see a person at the top of their game say arm who’s really good at graphic design for again okay okay he doesn’t do graphic design but van Gogh okay he has a great painting starry night okay your leg while that is amazing or Michelangelo you know and is on I can have so crazy like the way they did R. back then was at the top of their craft and the rap artists in the game right now like Eminem like his lyrics he’s been doing it for over thirty years his lyrics are so intricate and complicated it’s almost as though he just does it every day he actually read the dictionary just to come out with new words to rhyme and that’s crazy that’s dedication and I’m just I love this skill aspect of it I love the school aspect of anything that’s why I like to try everything because you never know what you might like and I feel like the more you try everything well you do everything the more well rounded you become and you become the best you can be in everything like contributes to each other right so if you’re good at podcasting you edit your own audio right so then that gives you experience into like making videos and making the audio sound perfect for videos right and then when you have experience in video editing right you could probably edit music videos and films or TV right so everything’s connected graphic design to for album covers for posters movie posters and books you know no one really thinks about books knowing like visually when the last time you read a book well I read quite a lot but yeah good right so it’s like books in wrapping is connected to poetry okay I firmly believe that because poetry is just or wrapping is poetry in motion right is rhyming it can be rhyming but I also cannot and it’s everything is connected is the what I’m trying to say and yeah that’s true New York City right and I’m I mean not point sets graphic design is just everywhere now you’re absolutely right because it covers it up send me pics are absolutely not dying that they their fate physical tics are so very very alive and well and the covers are more and more interesting and I think people and shops when they’re shopping for pics online and in stores retracted to the coverage more and more I think because they are more and interesting and having to get more interesting to compete with each other yeah you know and more expressive pieces of color and damages and everything did possibly the Iran you’ve got so many options open sea and it’s really refreshing to hear that you’re interested in lots of different things and you can appreciate that yes things sold so you can act up when’s that it’s not everything has to be side loaded off and write your specialist nothing that’s all you today because certainly in my academic life previously thought very much what it was like it was right but you’re the expert on thought one thing so you don’t get to talk about anything else but I know loads of stuff but lots of other things so you know it’s really great to hear somebody certainly younger than me I’m thinking and trusted and those to stuff and you know using that and really going for it and trying I stopped because I think that’s the ideal is people need to be able to have %HESITATION set things to figure it all Eyez to figure ites he can I be I want to bait what title for him I get asked and where do those things start to mock shock but knows that I could maybe make a living out of something you know so yeah it’s great to see hopefully on the postulates that journey yeah for sure I’m pretty much like an open book I go with the flow you know whatever it’s also just nice to wake you have something to fall back on you know right you’re just open about everything your interest in everything you know one feel doesn’t work out you go in another because you have experience in that field it’s all about having fun the end of the day and I do enjoy this learning everything on facts right so my podcast used to be called Jordan learns everything but I thought that was too long so I then I changed it to Jordan mode fun fact well there’s something in that suit Jordan modes mode is type of average at set way of playing it can be a type of something can be a way of doing something that is an interesting title and was it just that he felt the previous site was long gone K. or why that particular words what was it about that word the that’s a great question so basically my initial thoughts was to start off I was named after Michael Jordan the greatest basketball player of all time I firmly believe that and I like if you see them on the court weather videos or whatever he goes crazy and that’s why I think he’s the girl N. I just thought that’s Jordan mode right like nine ten plus I’m super competitive right soon if you’re on my team we’re gonna win so when I go crazy I’m also going Jordan mode so then those two aspects just like really brought out that title and I thought it was just perfect that’s very interesting there’s a lot of meaning I like to put meetings like double meanings I think that’s where it like my level rap comes from because in rap their lyrics that can have double or triple entendre sorry so I just started doing this recently but every episode title is modeled after a rap song it’s something little like that but I’d like to do those things because it it’s not fun for me Nina the plays with language that happened did you said earlier you did it a class in speech will say and this language in general something that you think about it do you speak other languages %HESITATION yeah yeah yeah I speak Chinese I am Chinese American I speak Cantonese N. as a different dialects from the main language which is Mandarin a lot of change he was being manner when I speak Cantonese which like the language of the south I’ve always been good at English growing up I’ve always been like terror want math so I think that’s played a part in this me being good at language arts English literature reading I’ve always loved that my parents forced me to read N. at the time when I was younger I was like I don’t want to read but then now I’m thankful because it’s given me so much valuable information and skill into the English language being able to differentiate your different words like they’re they’re they’re just being good at just communicating what else are they gonna say okay and not communicating right now but %HESITATION fun fact Eminem also is really good at English growing up so I believe that reading and being good at English that’s gonna level up your rapping skills it really is all connected and throw a bit of poetry in there right some poetry now therapeutic experience and I’m sorry what was the initial question I went off on a tangent I feel fine tangents are very welcome on the show because I usually have remember where I stay nice so yeah I think I was asking just generally about a language and because it you know because you’re dealing with visual languages as well in your artwork then you know you’re interested rocked and shoot just highly loaded language conveyed and rap and poetry and then I I wondered if he spoke other languages so you know that’s really useful to hear because I think that just expands what you can J. west language and whatever language you’re speaking it can expand it because she can learn other ways of saying things and the other language you know so I’m ready and trusted in hearing it’s also not from fire multilingual speakers all right yes also when you’re like bilingual I don’t think in Cantonese though I never think that I only speak Cantonese when I’m with my family is there Chinese SO like day to day I speak English because I was I was raised English pretty much I pretty much in school speak English day today speak English only time I speak Chinese is like at my house with my parents you gain a sort of appreciation for you have like two different sides of thinking almost great yeah I’d also like to different languages like more opportunities you know you can get by in in a different country and stuff so that’s pretty cool okay that’s interesting I’m a language learner rather than a multi lingual person just fumbling my way three other languages so three so I love hearing from people who’ve grown all bilingual or multilingual because I think he you have a very different mind sets you know and and and my experience when I know people he he have spots there may be more open minded about south there are very creative and the way they can express things can just stop in your tracks sometimes because it it’s a different way of thinking I think now the more Irish I learned to try and tap into pop side of me the mower sayings just open all right Anderson different understanding of a way of being S. out makes sense right is also like you learn about the differences and similarities between your culture and both of them are your culture so for example my Chinese culture and my my American like upbringing you can see the two sides you interact with different people and you’re just like while we have two different ways of life and that’s not bad it’s just different that’s just interesting and the cuisine you know when we have the food eats culture your lake while I know what I like and what I don’t like heck well B. E. definitely like bananas yeah do you dressed as a banana with your family ever no no not not outside of you told interest saying I I’d I’d rather go out on the street address of as a banana and Shania it’s not interesting where version of ourselves wherever we are is not it we’re always forming a version of ourselves and whatever situation we’re in yeah isn’t that interesting it’s like when you’re in front of different people you take L. version of yourself for example in front of your family you act a different way in front of your like close friends or a friend of a stranger you know it’s interesting I think the boulder things so we day we’re more likely to do it completely far away from our funds that he’s yeah it says here today it was strangers it’s not sure I’m okay Jordan is there anything we haven’t touched on that you were really hoping to talk about today how’s your day do you was I spending a lot of editing to say so wasn’t just saying that you brought that up earlier I’ve been seeing a lot of audio editing that is for to be passed on to video so that’s what I’ve been doing all day and %HESITATION almost lost track of time and it’s a really fun and shake projects so yes that’s what I’ve been doing I’ve been quite happy in my work eight a I did a couple of ours this morning and then I realize you know what I’m doing and that’s wrong there’s a better way for me to do this so then I started from scratch well started the added from scratch and it’s not going quite awhile so that’s my day Hey that’s good at least you like found or you like how I say it you found what you thought you were doing wrong and they you took action to find a solution to correct it and save more time yeah well I feel like a lot of people like they’re stuck in this routine right so they could be doing something and this isn’t just like for other people this also includes me as I am I have also been guilty of like doing the same thing over and over when in fact I could have done something different to save time right I could try something new right and that’s just just props you know that takes a lot to just be like I don’t want to do this anymore I’m gonna try something different I think that’s cool so and you’re just barely starting your day R. G. or you’re in the east coast asset so you’re just in the early afternoon hi yeah yes like one one PM right here okay yeah so if you got big stuff on the rest of the day %HESITATION some pride is also going to add it to set the nana Kamal for the editing yes there really is no way I today I will actually die you know so well I really enjoyed speaking with you it’s been lovely to have just to really relax interesting conversation and the see where it goes and it’s just been really good fun and that’s been a definitely a unique experience specially for me so for yeah yeah yeah why the first banana yeah my first banana hello hello I do have them a friend he’s an artist and her nickname is Joanna bananas so %HESITATION but she didn’t wear call shame for me right Jim Acosta information written songs on the electoral banana yes okay cool all right a yes thank you for having me on is an absolute blast you’re very welcome and yes one of the meeting it and ready get doc quests all of your studies and everything in here working on yeah and you too %HESITATION the podcast the key shot out the audio visual cultures podcast thank you yes until you go and check out Jordan moats and I’ll be linking to that and are shown to sparkle awesome

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures 119 – Maysville

Listen and view the show notes and full automated transcript below!

Show Notes

Paula Blair speaks to writer and director Leslie Goyette and producer Michele Englehart about their film Maysville (2021). In our conversation you’ll learn about their 3-year journey from script to finished film, their experience with crowdfunding and the kindness of communities, and the sheer tenacity it takes to achieve a goal you really believe in. This is an enjoyable and illuminating conversation which I hope you’ll get something out of and share.

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.

Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.

Recorded with Zoom on 4 May 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings on Patreon.

Maysville website: https://maysville.wixsite.com/maysvillethemovie

Leslie and Paula connected via https://www.matchmaker.fm/

Automated Transcript

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though you’re very welcome to you RT of facial cultures the podcast that explores different areas of film the arts and media I’m Paul up there and in this episode I talk to the writer and director let’s see cognacs and producer Michelle Engelhard’s abate their film maze filled which is available on various streaming sites as well as on DVD and Blu ray and the U. S. you’ll find useful links in the show notes and everything else you’ll need audio visual cultures dot com a big thank you to our patrons at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures his generosity is funding our websites and thanks as well to you heather pony read he replied on Instagram and I posted about yes more computer bows as it seems we have the same laptop and heather says I recently discovered your podcast and it’s great I’m really glad you’re enjoying it has their hands thank you and everyone else for investing in for engaging with us wherever you do that so in today’s discussion we skirted around Paul details for the film may you spell but I think that it’s fine for me to say that it is a tragic family ands coming of age periods drama set in depression era of the ship if you’re not aware of it it’s a real might necessary it in the United States Leslie and Michelle take history quite a lot of the production details including importantly their experience with crowdfunding and simply asking for things that you told people what they needed and they made a film that looks a lot more expensive than a speaker because of the kindness of the community stay were working with and I think that’s really pertinent for me because I was living in Newcastle upon Tyne has taught me shy bairns get nights you know if you don’t ask you don’t get let’s see Michelle really show you why it’s important to just go for it to just tell people like this is what we needs today that S. what do you think what can you do with a mention some difficult topics around death poverty and abusive behavior but there’s also a lot of joy and hope the restore some faith in humanity and both the story of may spell on the Siri if making maze spell they may face so it really hope you enjoy this one it was it was just a really great conversation and it was a real joy to meet lastly and Michelle as well they’re they’re welcome back anytime so hope you get a lottery if it nine I know I certainly did let’s see go yes and Michelle Banco hearts thank you so much for joining me on audio visual cultures we’re going to discuss your independent film maze spell that’s just so exciting but this first of all if it’s okay could I ask each of you C. NG sure selves to bet on C. six billion the roles each if you had in the film if we start with Leslie is out all right now I’m amazed to Michelle my name’s Leslie yeah I was the writer and one of the producers and the director for the town I am amazing partner Michelle yes my name is Michelle it’ll hurt I am %HESITATION producer and maze spell Celeste Lee and I teamed up to get the film made I know that getting the film made a toll was a huge achievement for both fifty and so we’ll try and learn a bit of bite that at any moment spent where did the story come from and why did you decide to tell it on film will talk but the story itself in a bad spot %HESITATION I just wondered what were the origins of the story first of all well the origins of the story it’s a coming of age story set in the nineteen twenties and that part of the United States called Appalachia Appalachia is a remote part of the United States it’s a very mountainous area it’s part of where I grew up so that part of the country it’s that poverty stricken area and I kind of wanted to tell a story about things that I had seen and things that I had witnessed and growing up in that area but I also want to take it back in time a little bit some of the characters are kinda loosely very loosely based on people that I had interacted with throughout my life heady and Willie that G. main characters early on in the film are are based on my sister and my relationship the closeness that we add the adventures that they have together things like that those are all things that I did as a child with my sister it’s not by any means autobiographical goodness it’s not autobiographical it’s based on you know the area where I grew up with and that’s where it came to me and why is hold on film was it the second part your question in Leslie can answer this better than me but I just want to say is a writer Leslie is a very visual writer when I first read the script I could picture every scene my mind like how it was going to beat it and she’s not a prolific writer is very you know not a lot of information but if the right amount of information for me to visualize really picture how how this would be films which I thought was unusual to do read a lot of scripts I think she’s a visual writer which lends itself to film and Sam and then it’s out what really attracted you to producing it that Michelle was just she wanted to visualize sought for Leslie well it will tell you the back story the city especially night we knew each other do we to have met on the set that are %HESITATION kids had done a commercial for probably eight years ago now while ago and kept in touch via social media Facebook she lives in Portland which is about three hours from where I’m at in Seattle so just you know queen says over social media but one day she came to me and asked if I’d be she had watched a short film that I had put out on social media that my son had been in and she watched it and thought he would be perfect for the role of Willie for this script she wrote I didn’t know she was a writer and she had never previously shown anybody her scripts so she’s kind of like a closet raiders just she sent me the scripts and I started reading it and I’m not sure if you had time to watch the film but the set up of the film is with the boys you know their tweens the first fifteen minutes of the film you watch the set up and I read up to that point in the script and I was just like oh my god this is one of the best scripts I’ve read and I could just my heart I was totally engaged by page ten you know just sucked in and by like sixteen or something I text her I said oh my god is she said oh my god good %HESITATION oh my god dad because I was the first person to read the script and I said oh my god I just called her and I said this is so good this is just so good so that’s how I got selected I didn’t know maybe at that time that was her first script I didn’t know anything you know if she’s made any short films or anything she came up to Seattle we did a table read and then after the table read she said so I don’t know if this can just be a short film if we could do a feature length film but you know what you ladies we can get it done could you help me I’ve never done so before so I don’t know I I tell people I don’t usually believe in fate but there was I feel like there’s an element here why this all came together why I said yes I thought it was just crazy I’m more conservative than Leslie and you know don’t usually take risks like this and I just was a great time in my life and we kind of just figured it out together over the last three and half years it’s been kind of a crazy ride we’ve learned a ton a ton and I think we produce something pretty good for you know given what we %HESITATION the resources that we had a play into second let’s see do you want to add anything to Michelle stories there well yeah I think that I I I call myself a closet writer for many years I have so many scripts and short stories and so on and that I write but I’ve always felt that sharing your writing is like letting someone see ill make it you know nobody you just don’t want to do that and because it shows all your flaws it shows you know your inhibitions it shows everything in your writing and people can’t really judge you on your writing style even though I love to write I’ve never really shared by writing with anyone so it was a big step a big step for me to say Hey I’m going to share something with you and it was easier to share it with someone that I didn’t know really well then it was share share with someone who I intimately know or care a lot about because Michelle could have been honest with me does that make sense I’m Michelle had no nothing best and she could have hurt my feelings that thank you I think it’s a something for us right now but her response was authentic and genuine and she was very enthusiastic about the script and made me feel somewhat validated I guess all writers maybe need some kind of validation before they take the next step at least for me at it that’s a really important story to tell I think because there’s probably a lot of people like they’re like you you hear setting on work and they’re too scared to share it with anyone and that’s a really great story of where it can actually work I’d if you take that leap into the abyss so that’s really great for people to hear I hope hope hope you know art is the most important thing to me art most important thing in the world because it it brings joy right whatever form of art there is it brings joy and it sometimes being on her way to share your arch keeps people from sharing it you know and it may really resonate with someone hi tended to did you go from the the ID in the script Sakshi getting it into production because I know that you you went to in the crowd funding rates I’m sure there’s a big story behind that as well I think one of the smart moves we made as we carved out six months to see how much money we could race to see whether we could take on a feature length film funding wise or whether we just might have enough money to do what we feel would be to put forward a short film I think a lot of filmmakers at least one a lot of local indie filmmakers I know they don’t necessarily take that time may kind of wing it and try to do stuff and no money and I do think we did the right thing by taking that time and doing it and it it didn’t just raise the funds it helps spur our marketing right from the very beginning to start building your audience early is that some advice we got from another producer that I think is was well taken so you can the two can go hand in hand we did a big what we thought was a big crowd funding and indie gogo which was quite successful we more than made our goal and that inspired us to think that we had enough to meet your future phone which we actually end up doing we had to do a lot of asking because we didn’t have enough money to make a really good quality feature of the film is set back in the nineteen twenties so that’s another feat that’s quite hard to pull off as an indie filmmaker to make it at that tech looking to the nineteen twenties and more expensive right all the props and Senate locations and all that so in addition to %HESITATION you know raising the money we had to do a lot of asking of Hey can you volunteer to let us use your vintage car yeah we asked the town’s we found two historic towns next to each other for filming you know we had to ask you know their city council if we can use their public spaces they gave it to us for free just about all the locations were given to us for free to use the props antiques and even an old tractors the perfect old tractor we’re looking for the actually look new we found a steam train there’s a local steam train that actually still operates down there and we needed one for the film they gave us the use of that for free yeah I mean it was just almost ridiculous how much was just given to us just because we asked so the combination of raising what we thought was enough money in conjunction with just getting out there and asking people people are excited said make a film this was in two towns that are pretty not remote but there is not a lot going on down there and them and they are historic and I think that a lot of people in those towns that was really cool that it a film set back in the twenties is going to be made in their towns there’s a lot of get up and go a lot of good will down there that we found it we also did at dinner fundraiser down there to raise money that was the initial reason but it actually did a lot more than that it got that good will get the word out in the excitement out a lot of the Ted that people down there became extras in the film they’re really excited about that and some of them brought their own wardrobes and just got really into it even the fire chief the ad at the fire station helped us we didn’t have sixteen hundred dollars to rent a rain machine so he he brought fire track and hooked up the hose and we got one K. we got one shot on this one J. and he just prayed the hose in the air and got the rain to come down on the actors and their work we were so excited we had shot the scene twice already with no rain right well doesn’t work we’ll have our back up right yes so and and it was amazing just to see the community come together to try to make this project because when we were at the dinner we just had a captive audience we ask people were like this is what we need this is what we need this is what we need is what we need and by the time we were done with that dinner we had two people volunteer their farms to be burnt down and we were just kind of you know right away what we need to burn down the barn does anyone ever bark we can burn down yes you well in two years yeah we’re just jokingly asking to %HESITATION thing that we learned in all of this is that at the end of the day people want to help people thank you it’s just a lot of times people don’t want to ask for help the R. model began eighteen it became that power up the ass be authentic in your ask be truthful be honest let them know this is where I’m coming from I don’t have a budget where I can you know give you money the people were just %HESITATION one all and excited to be you know a part of it it’d be part of something creative that’s bigger than yourself I think that I would sign on if somebody asked me you know it anyway it’s it’s exciting to be part of something that so many people are involved in to actually put something on the big screen that could look really good they didn’t know asked they didn’t know we had no stars in the film you know no A. listers that are recognizable and murky but they totally bought into the story and the idea of making a film down there and the fact it was sent back in time I think it was a another big selling point can also tune into six story and I just feel like there’s a whole other side of this film as well it’s going to really beautiful story that can circulate with so I think that to get into more details but the film itself you know as indicated very clearly by the title the location is so important and as you’re saying it’s that community and I it’s great to hear such a positive story right the making of the film because I think the film itself deals is really very difficult and she’s and not so much of a community spirit going on if I’m picking up on that right so I was just wondering if you kids help flashlight a bit more for any listeners especially here in the U. K. you know we’re we’re fed a lot of sculpture from the U. S. but the specific location and after that time that you’re talking about most of us are going to know absolutely nothing about that so if it’s okay could you just help flesh out a bit more forests to depression era I it’s very rural very might necessary yet and then the sorts of issues that you’re dealing with that because you know there’s going to be a lot bubbling up Ryan’s not as well in terms of because I think the suffrage movement but is going on and and there’s a lot of racial problems and then there’s classic she’s while you’ve mentioned so if you’re happy to maybe less EKG just last Saturday but Marcus what’s your story as well you want to tell well if we’re gonna talk about Appalachia I do need to make sure that I preface that these are my people this is where I grew up and I love the end of your where I’m from so by any means I’m the purpose of this is not to shine a negative light on the people of Appalachia but Appalachian in the nineteen twenty eight is very different %HESITATION Appalachian ballad eight we’re up we’re going back in time and we’re looking at a time when I don’t think things were so different so much in Appalachia as they were in other parts of the country women were more of a second class citizen then man even in the early nineteen twenties when men that were just started a little bit more we were dealing with I don’t want to give away too much of the story is there is a very big twist at the end and the big twist at the end actually we’ll explain the actions by a lot of the characters throughout infidelity is one of the most memorable thing that you could have done in that time in Appalachia it’s something that that was our letter you know what I’m saying very much about starlet letter that area it fell yeah like I said it’s under Sir but there’s not a lot of well generations after generations after generations lived there but not a lot of people a lot of families can’t break out of poverty cycle but at the same time they’re also a very strong eight they’re very strong in their faith and their beliefs so trying to explain that without giving like much of a story and it’s a little little bit than a fine line to walk there but it’s a very beautiful part of the country the Appalachian trail a lot of people will hike that it is just the mountains trail %HESITATION on the eastern part of the United States it’s beautiful and the people are wonderful they’re just very set in their ways and sometimes people will justify their actions by what has happened yeah and I hate to use the %HESITATION terms but I four nine if you hear a lot of times people still feel that way and back in that time the nineteen twenties there was not on law enforcement as you see it now right there was one local sheriff for like three or four to L. and that was the case that the story up there we had one share I never hear of many different things like that so I hope that can help an indescribable Billboard it Leslie you know the extension that some of this a lot of it is pulled from her her childhood here in there which Leslie and I are about the same age so grew up in the seventies it’s set back in the nineteen twenties because maybe it’s a little bit more believable so that some of this these things actually can happen they still actually Leslie maybe you could talk to this can happen today that some of the things that happen in the movie like that could never happen Welton Leslie might know about the situations in her childhood where things like that actually did happen yeah I grew up with this and we were court reporter growing up we didn’t have a car I don’t think anyone would ever relate to that you know what I’m saying the seventies eighties and nineties growing up how did you not have a car but we don’t have a car I would have a telephone that sounds great to you and when I was in high school we did not have a telephone we couldn’t afford it and having that you know even though some of the things that you see you know was in the seventies eighties and nineties I took it back to the twenties because I just don’t think that if I told the story of the seventies eighties and nineties well not as we’re not believed that people would not believe that how does a family not have excel how do you not have a land line in your house we didn’t read it I had a single mother with trying to raise three children of our own and it was just their circumstances that we grew up in so we decided I decided to take this story back to the twenties to make some updates you know that I can relate you’re from my child care it would explain things a lot easier that’s really great to hear about that less because I was something I was gonna ask you bite cassette the setting is almost a hundred years on from where we are today I think that actually quite a few of the issues that come up in the film are really Prashant right now all right I think especially with a lot of what we said with their abusive behavior and race relations and gender and equality and everything he can and well into the twenty first century noise so I think it is a very twenty twenty story and a lot of ways as much as as a nineteen twenty sorry so it it’s really great to hear I’m really fascinating what you’re saying is well the plight that decision to go back to the Chinese that makes a lot of sense actually because I grew up more in the eighties and the U. K. and yet we do even for a lot of a CVP considers horror underprivileged but we probably would have had access T. a landline telephone or a cover of some description at even a neighbor’s car or something like that so you know that’s really just fastening contacts here but I thought thank you both for that yeah yeah you just hit the nail on the head you’re really did you’re really something that up very well it’s just interesting you know even when I was telling myself some of the stories from my childhood shows like what at the same time and regionally we were just a few hundred miles from each other she was growing up in Illinois and I was growing up in Kentucky but we grew up in two very different worlds very very different worlds and it’s just fascinating just to see that how to people who are completely different not far from each other but just experienced two drastically different either you mentioned earlier as well that the two boys teddy and waylaid the beast very roughly on you and your sister and then putting it back to the twenties and changing them to police as Scott Disick in to facilitate the storytelling do you think it’s easier for employees or it’s easier for me because there were some parts that I did want to share about my life okay I just felt that it was the right thing to do was to make them boys some of the things that make my sister and I did work very well wait role you know what we would find in the Barnes and Klein you know fifty feet in the rockers I would die now if I saw my kids doing things like that you know we we go frog gigging and you know we would ship times we shot guns and in the field not a lot of things that you see Freddy and really doing there definitely more masculine things but those are the things that we had it that’s what we had to play with when you’re married remember from people so that’s just what we had to delete things that were around that’s what we have to play with and that’s what we yet there is a lot of times when I was very emotional on set you know I just think that it it would have been two little girls I would’ve been a total basket okay I’m still close with my sister and I love her so much but I think having a boy it’s the kind of things a little are a little bit more controllable yeah that makes a lot of census three users here I mean we talked earlier as well right just hi positives it production experience was and it does look like he hello maybe we can consider a lot of the actors as terribly famous or anything like that they’re actually really high caliber it and the performances set you’ve got out of them and she’s got really high production values and hi the film has been found the lighting music and and all of these elements that make it looks very polished and they make it look a lot more expensive than I probably actually will which is one of the men thank you all right coming from you that really means a lot someone has so much education and someone who has spent so much time studying found that’s really sweet of you to say that means that means a lot but we you know we were limited with our actors we were limited with what we had to change from what we have to work with but I do agree with you I do think that we got some really really genuine performances and %HESITATION I think that it came through and they were more than just characters they really worked really hard to get to where they needed to be instrumental scenes for heart things were very hard but I think they roast beef thank you all we wanted to make a family I talked to Michelle about this I did not want to tell this story how a modern day director would tell story stories nowadays are very different R. told very different and how old they are we’re told when I was when my children watch that comes from my childhood and I’m like oh this is scanned by me you’re gonna love it rob Reiner’s great blah blah blah this is Ron Howard and this is Joe Dante when I share with them they think I’ll use work %HESITATION really %HESITATION and they’re very much a narrative belt right whereas a more modern day wait you’re a lot of our modern day story starts with inner dialogue the characters we must the reaction that we eat your entry the audience you’re trying to see what is going through the mind of the characters and it’s not so bad body yet so Michelle and I were we want to tell in old fashioned story not very old fashioned but I wanted to tell it the way that we grew up watching and that was the intent that so with the listen to the score the score is very much something you would have heard and the eighties and nineties someone brought up out of Africa it has we’re going out of Africa or something like that and it’s more of an epic sound to it then something that it’s a little bit more modern and that was the look and the feel that we were going for day one with our cinematographer antara composer the film is getting really positive reviews wherever people are watching it so catchy point the search to words where they can find it and any information that as well like they’re they complained about it he Michelle would you like to yeah so it’s on Amazon and designed to be TV and it’s on Google play and YouTube it’s also being taken to the console market coming up so we’re excited to see if it hopefully can go somewhere yeah that Avenue and yeah we’re on Facebook based on the movie and Facebook is probably the best place to go to social media to find out the latest %HESITATION what’s going on there filming the reviews we post in there all the press everything is on and our Facebook page did I miss anything less like so interesting hi there if you have anything you you really want to hot up in the film because we’ve been tiptoeing around the story because we don’t want to give too much away but is there anything else you wanna add about your experience in making acts and the people that you worked with anything at all well I think we kind of already said it but just to reiterate that craziness of how I mean you mentioned the production quality value the film and that the good acting all round I think we really made a really solid looking film that’s the feedback we get that looks studio quality if you know more about our budget was less than six figure six you know you have to you know we say for the price of a new car we made this film over the course of three years and I I am biased but I think it looks and feels and watches it’s just it’s amazing for what we specs and I think you know we’re first time filmmakers never even made a short film before and we did this and pulled it off and so I think that’s that’s the story behind the story be back in just in general that’s a really good story beautifully told and we just hope that people will watch it and I see I hope this gives you the confidence to get more of the scripts I do thought closet yeah hello I I hope to find that one person out there that would believe in me we’ve been to hell do not tell anyone what you spent on the stock don’t keep that budget look you know keep it quiet because if anyone knew what we what we really did here with the amount of money that week that they would know that it was tried just shy of a miracle thanks there’s a part of me that says look what I can do for this amount of money if you would just believe in me I can do an amazing product with a few hundred thousand dollars you know I don’t even need you know millions of dollars I don’t need that and I don’t think a lot of people I need to bring a quality piece of work I don’t I don’t there was no backing up your call back I don’t know if you have heard of that or saw it but it was just for actors in a room that’s it and for a credible actors in the film was done for three hundred thousand dollars it just goes to prove that I’m trying you can just have a good story and if you have a good performance %HESITATION and just believe it stopped working I just believe in not directed that they can deliver something I would love to be able to find someone with a refurbished Alibag if we have so many stories that we have we can share there’s very different remains though very different where it I’m definitely more of a I liked eating any unnecessarily horror when I left I left to get people thinking I have four other scripts but I would love to help right thank you this crazy thing again I think that sets the toxic message to the nation I absolutely hear ye I I just totally agree with everything that you’re saying give people chances give people resources and look what they can achieve so that’s such an important message for this and I I just feel so privileged that you folks come on and talk about all this and shared your story and I hope that my tiny podcast can in some small way get that message out there as well for you so let’s see K. S. and Michelle angle heart thank you so much for your time thank you so much for sharing your story and just wish you all the best with everything it has to come and I hope there are great things coming for you and %HESITATION I really hope I get sick T. again that more links another time yeah me too well thank you so much thank you so much well it’s been a pleasure yeah it’s brilliant

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures Episode 118 – SEO Optimizers with Brandon Leibowitz

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Show notes

Paula Blair is joined by digital marketing professional Brandon Leibowitz to talk about the technologies, best practices, ethics and effects on culture of search engine optimization (SEO), social media marketing, and website ownership. In our conversation you’ll learn some quick tips for advancing up Google search results and lessons about who really owns and makes money from the data we share online. Do enjoy this conversation and share it with a friend!

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.

Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.

Recorded with Zencastr on 3 May 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings on Patreon.

Receive a gift from Brandon’s company

Check out Brandon’s podcast appearances

Brandon and Paula connected via Matchmaker

Automated Transcript

Every paid subscription to these posts funds the text editing needed to improve the accuracy of the automated transcripts provided by our host, Acast. Hit the subscribe button to support this work for £5 a month, and be sure to check the box so you get early access to future posts ↓

greetings and salutations you’re very welcome to episode one hundred eighteen of audio visual cultures the podcast that explores different areas from the arts and media I am your host Poland planner and I am joined this time by a digital marketer Brandon labor what’s working I’d in sunny Los Angeles helping people get their businesses noticed by search engines and much more I thought it would be interesting to see talk to Brandon because he’s the sort of person who’s advice I’ve been taking for ways to more effectively circulated and promote this podcast is my other work this technological signees of these marketing activities and their ramifications on culture quite broadly scare and fascinate me whether you’re a business owner or a consumer this affects all of us on the internet so whether you’re interested or not I think it’s important C. get cleaned up and snow will retain when they post on social media and fellow HR data cells will hopefully get Brandon back again at some points because I for one need another dose of that California sunshine if not for anything else many thanks as well to those of you listening and reaching right best feedback especially Dr laurel J. carpenter he featured in episode sixty one that’s a really lovely upset if you haven’t heard it pleased to go and check out one night and laurel said hi Paul let loved your interview with tank it’s smart and funny and accessible ax ax and that was in response to episode one hundred fifteen with Richard James hall laurel that really means a lot because accessibility is what we’re all about here and if we can make out from T. ten older fatter not only on the show Brandon Lee blacks I am so delighted to have you on audio visual cultures thank you so much for reaching our age and for your time today I might correct if I say that you’re both lesser that you run a digital marketing firm called SCO optimizers yeah would you be happy C. tell us a bit about that company give a spend of over V. by your work there and your background into us all right then I started doing digital marketing in two thousand seven kind of just fell into it and got my degree in business marketing in the first job I got my need you at seo social media email marketing for them to have it all in fact and just realize that I see as we get free traffic can I spend money on ads if you get up there for free so just focus on that over the years I just had to get that free traffic from Google so you don’t have to spend money on ads and marketing for advertising agencies and if mom pop shops and fortune five hundred companies and everything in between helping them out with their SCO and right now my own company well that’s the optimizers help people specifically get free job from Google do a little bit of paid ads but for to get you that three topics you have to spend money on ads fantastic I suppose just for anybody blessing he he isn’t familiar with some of those terms can we just talk about what SCO means as CEO search engine optimization that means ranking websites on Google so whatever you see on Google that due to SCO what would you search on Google there’s ads at the top those are all paid ads that right below that those are the organic SCO the free listings and as he was about getting that free traffic from Google so Brandon I’ve been listening to quite a lot of your appearance says on on quite a few other podcasts and they’ve been just so useful and informative I mean for me as an independent podcaster he’s trying that market forecasts and do so on a are you too low or no budgets it’s been really wonderful actually to the discovery you and your generosity with reaching out to people I also don’t want to make you repeat too much of what you’ve been doing another podcast I think it be quite nice to share those other podcast because actually there have been many years so late and I started listening to the %HESITATION talk first chill Westbury convenience and tools of the podcast tree interests Jennifer Francis actually those I find your other episodes of those podcasts are actually very useful as well so I’d like to link to those and see if there’s anything you haven’t coverage on a lot of thought other work you’ve been saying that we could T. sites say what do you think if I thought that would be the best that much better because I like you need topic is that is after the same things about SCO or digital marketing anything that help your audience is definitely the best whatever works best resonate your audience I’m open to helping out as much as possible not surprised in Brandon I think to get you up to speed Dan not audio visual cultures were primarily on arts and culture podcasts and we do a lot of things like film analysis to re talk about aids art exhibitions where we talk to researchers and arts and humanities subjects and we’re quite wide ranging across what can be considered as audio visual cultures and I was quite keen to talk T. in terms of the cultural phenomenon that has become social media marketing and SCO and and all of these things all of these areas and I think my listeners are in our state people who are creative practitioners and their creative industries in some way the researchers of the same some hope and how all of this can learn from me not just hi I need to be better self marketers but also just to learn about what is the technologies behind all of this I mean maybe you don’t get and all of this but I’m curious about what impact there might be some %HESITATION socially and culture related not sort of thing are these areas that you ever get into the center of your clients or that you think about you know what is it apart all of space that you find interesting it’s definitely a step that they sought help it is interesting just trying to figure out Google and see what’s going on with Google and how they want to control and run everything but who knows what can happen in the future with them they’re gonna keeps dominating the market or is someone else can take over the matter is gonna take over that role just plugged in now this matters anymore but it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens in the future how this impacts everyone it’s making you just I mean just plugged in pretty much I actively avoid using Google I wonder if she ever have to deal with people like me who are trying to market themselves but they’re aware that people are trying to find alternatives that may be our last environmentally harmful or maybe last aspect to the compromise saying it’s not anything you cover as well and your work no there’s a kosher is that search engine where they plant a tree get thing for everyone that searches but if you look at how much traffic they get compared to Google it does even come close Google just bring then by twenty to eighty percent of traffic to a website being brings about one percent Yahoo will bring maybe one percent DuckDuckGo might bring half a percent because you might bring a quarter of a percent and then the threat to social media email marketing people this type in your website indirectly but you’re not on Google you’re not gonna get the visibility unless your audience is using a different search engine okay then you need to be on that search engine I think China’s on Yandex so they don’t really mean that kind of censored but it depends on who your audience is it’s on the different search and then you want to be there but the most part everyone’s on Google NASA accidentally using being it’s been kind of tricks people into taking over the browser no more than that we’re aware that that go privacy where they’re not tracking everything they say they’re not and then the closure where they’re coming out with the environment and try to get back but we’ll see if they take off but for now they we have no market share home fortunately I mean that summer is here which is so tiny compared to those other websites outlook analytics over the past fifteen years that website hundreds maybe thousands websites it’s all the same Google just dominated the traffic and doesn’t even compare how much they get versus everything else and if they took a lot of the business most websites are probably fail unfortunately just because Google’s brings in so much shock and that’s running paid ads but if you try to get that free traffic for now Google just runs the show it it certainly feels like I mean they have G. email server using G. Mel the reading all your emails if you’re using chrome they’re tracking everything on the android phone the tracking I think you’re talking everything I mean no matter what everyone’s tracking and taking all the data and selling and often it’s tough nowadays but hopefully things change in the future but for now is selling off that data that’s all they care about I think just on that point of them selling the data that is that we generated in that we think may be belongs to us but actually were handing it over a lot of the time aren’t we was I really realizing are being conscious of it I’ve been thinking about this quite a lot because again as a podcaster show %HESITATION so much as my marketing in a way relies on me asking my listeners to help me C. Reetz and refugee unsubscribe and see share on their own social media and that sort of thing the I’m very conscious that I’m asking them to say it works for me for free one eighty thought so I wondered if you know if any of those sort of more ethically she’s come up with what you do or do your clients tend not to really worry if I thought sort of saying you know what what do you think right those sorts of issues we’re not supposed to ask for reviews will on yelp they tell you don’t ask for users to get the terms of service these are all these other platforms don’t want you to ask for reviews that they do scene or catch you asking for reviews the park penalize you where we move a lot of those reviews so you can’t really be doing that I mean everyone does it but you’re not supposed to do it but you see like nobody really falls I think everyone’s just trying to bend the rules a little bit because if you don’t ask for reviews no it’s gonna find you see it do some says like with asio Google says don’t do anything thank you but you have to do some SCO because if you don’t do anything you can pay as you do not see %HESITATION I mean if you look at all these big corporations have teams of people doing asio so you’re not gonna CO United we found but to Google they say don’t do anything but you have to take everything with a grain of salt whatever they tell you start with a full to the deciding what they want to hear because they aren’t you really know what’s going on I suppose in a way for small creators and small business owners and the light that makes things quite difficult because you want to do things by the bank but you you’re also this tiny voice at this massive voids and you don’t even want to be a monopoly you just one year your tiny little share of the action so I mean is there anything see you come up with %HESITATION you come across because any nice examples of where people do things really well and it’s quite successful for them I mean if you look at like podcasters a thing number one is like Joe Rogan he never advertises he just doesn’t all organic with grassroots so that’s the way to do it but he’s been doing it for so long and builds up and builds it up in one of the first people doing it so that also helps out if your one of the first on Instagram you get a head start resembling L. senses joining eight years later you’ve had eight years to build it up and build up and build up that audience getting in at the beginning taking full control of everything don’t just posted up on other websites like Facebook Instagram Twitter YouTube Pinterest you don’t really own any of that stuff you’re just renting space from all these companies and they take it down anytime and they have full control or content where is you have your own website you have full control of it and you can do whatever you want and we have that forever where is you put something on YouTube you just renting space off you too and they’re not paying you that much you might make a dollar for every thousand views so you to the top paying out that much %HESITATION Facebook’s not going to pay you to post videos on there so there is take all that content and using it to help grow their brands help grow more traffic to Spotify iTunes to stitch all the podcasts ones you’re helping grow these podcasts verses you posted on there to get more exposure to ultimately back to your website because that’s ultimately what you want people to your website don’t keep going on social media because too many distractions to meno too much noise there’s no engagement anymore so if you do have a big following on social media post on Facebook only five percent of people that like your page let me see what you post on Instagram and might be twenty percent of the people of folly we’ll see what you post so getting followers really means nothing nowadays because there’s no engagement all the platforms that you have to enforce the advertise online I try to stay clear of advertisements if you can because they’re expensive and they add up and not the the fact that people see the ads and they don’t trust ads like they trust organic results one of the nice things he and reading up on your website I find that really refreshing actually that you advise not to use paid out for its on these platforms %HESITATION because normally when I go to weapon are some things when I try and get advice on how to increase my audience increase my reach and grow as a podcast and that sort of thing that is one of the things that is suggested as %HESITATION just pay it better money and promote your poster that sort of thing and and I’m very skeptical of I thought so %HESITATION I’d love for you to if you don’t mind said maybe talk a bit more about I thought and maybe if you know a bite highs algorithms work because I feel certainly as having a business account on Instagram it feels as if they’re deliberately hiding your stuff unless you pay them the second they have stockholders so Instagram is owned by Facebook and Facebook on public they need to make money they realized there was a contact there buddy and put this little blue button that says Bruce’s post up there people are gonna start clicking the boost is supposed to show the content to everyone that follows him because they thought realized we only show your content that eighty percent of people that fall like your page okay this little button here people are clicking and spend money they’re like I probably should be content to forty five percent of people like you know people still put it in the drop in the thirty twenty ten that’s five percent of the people like you let me see what you post without clicking that little blue button to boost a post but never click that blue blooded because that’s just throwing money to Facebook that’s not how you run ads if you really can’t run ads you have to go to the Facebook ad manager for Tyron Instagram ads you have to go to the Facebook ad manager don’t click the blue button that size is the room anyway because you’ll get full control it makes it easy to run an ad because just click that button but you really need to run ads prop if you’re gonna do and that’s through the Facebook ad manager but even then it’s just spend the audience on Facebook if they are then run some ads but make sure you lead people to your website or somewhere where you have full control judges promote somebody to Spotify because there is advertising for Spotify and helping grow Spotify which can help you grow your audience that ultimately you want people to your website because that’s where you have full control you try to capture the email addresses maybe get some whatever your conversion goal is but that’s where you can actually get people comfort versus just being on the podcast or sending people to like sort of like is whether or not Spotify worked there on iTunes in the sentence modified the not gonna listen or if they’re on stitcher I have eighty others too many options out there but if you have on your website has all options right there then they can pick and choose to have a place where you can have it natively embedded on Facebook but even then you’re stopping Facebook yeah that’s really good advice I think that’s a really helpful to sanction actually between the paste posts and siad manager I hadn’t heard that before so light I hope that’s really useful for other people as well but it does feel I mean it makes a lot of sense but it also feels very I did almost hurtful that you have to pay to reach our own audience in the audience if you’ve already built and you have to give them some money so that all of those people might see your posts yes so that’s the frustration and I know that I for one have skills pocket pets on social media and I have as yet been advising I’ve been trying to build the websites and make improvements you know when I’ve called better time local and just federalist something and try and just be said about more so without one of the main things you tend it I eases people having a really good websites I just revise that you own everything don’t rent space by the people because what happens if you put all your eggs on my back thank you just focused on my face and then took a merges you stick by space you’ll be like now you just gone no it really be finding you so you I also diversify you know I just focus on one social media platform but ultimately it’s sad to know that they could take you down they just disappear Facebook is on the decline Instagram is taking off but took dog is growing exponentially and just try to be in from the right people the right time but your website is here is where you can get full control no it’s gonna kick you off your website or to censor you or take you down or anything like that where it’s always other platforms will do that anytime you do any against our terms of service which I think break the rules but the rules are pretty lax check like that some rules that don’t make any sense why these platforms that take you down for almost nothing in getting in contact with them getting your account back is almost impossible you don’t want to rely on these platforms you want to have something that you have full ownership just in case something does happen because you never know these platforms is taking down an insect or some good flag you and they take you down is because that person flag even that could be a competitor of yours that’s the screen advice from big thanks to our generous patrons Apache on dot com forward slash AP cultures for keeping us going if you’re not already supporting us your missing item behind the scenes content exclusive audio and early releases as well as being justifiably smoke for helping identity podcaster sharing free education you can see all my mistakes and get actions no one else is hearing all straight to your inbox or personal RSS feeds join the part today at the entry on dot com forward slash A. three cultures I thank task is well it’s to sort of put it back on to you for a moment what is it about all of this set makes you want to work in this area yeah and I like helping businesses watching them grow kind of take off and get them from that start up phase or whether phase ran to the next level and help them get that never ending supply of traffic from Google so they can be sustainable and not have to worry about spending money on ads are running TV or radio it’s going door to door cold calling people is just helping businesses trying to get them to their next level and help them succeed is the part I like about that seo and digital marketing so do you feel like maybe there’s the emergence of amazement box two words word of mine he said that sort of thing is important and just this is that sort of near digital incarnation of Ford of mice which you say right after the pandemic everyone realize that they need to be online like in the beginning everyone’s kind of try to figure out what to do right like March April may June twenty twenty around like September I was targeting the call saying anything out what did you need to be online begins I’m not online I was gonna find me because there’s no other way to get traction and because of that in the future so you got to be prepared and everyone is connect everyone has a cellphone to everyone’s online nowadays for the most part I want a cell phone and it’s too easy to connect and if you’re not online you’re missing out significantly is this a local brick and mortar store you might get people from twenty thirty mile radius but once you’re online to get people all over the world visiting you so really opens up things and helps you grow exponentially in just take you to that next level of globalization %HESITATION being a national brand or being a statewide Brad whatever trying to focus on instead just having that little tiny area now you can actually grow and reach a wider net of people do you see any trends that might be indicative of what could be coming in the future how you all of this might look like I mean it’s an away from somebody who’s afraid I her son and a lot of this it feels like it’s too much and it’s going to implode at some points I mean who do you think there’s any way of being able to say that Tyler protects your first see what could be a natural conclusion for a lot of stress or where we’re going it seems like the metaverse and just everyone just plug and everyone’s already on the phones all day and still get the younger generation they’re all on the phone in a rather be inside their verses in reality so fortunately it seems like everything is gonna be all virtual artificial experiences in simulations and things like that where you’re just plugged in all the time but who knows how that’s going that what that becomes but that seems like that is a feature that everything is going towards right now which is being plugged in permanently and experiencing whatever you want to experience versus experiencing life which is weird but that’s what the kids are grown up on and that’s all they know and that’s what they’re gonna want to do you think there’s any hopes that there might be some sort of hybrids way of saying this is because we are in the moments of our week hadn’t come might have thought search %HESITATION existence what more we can leave our daughter’s house behind for a little while and just be ourselves in the real world safety thank their cell biology and not death will be the older people that are going to be active while the younger generations all connected we’ll be the ones that that that %HESITATION that liars that just don’t want out just like grandparents and one is a computer we’ll be the ones that don’t want to use the simulation or the metaverse whatever he is yeah yeah is W. W. L. back I mean there’s still people that are my age that don’t want to be connected but they’re just out in the jungle somewhere or let me see if you want to really experience and connect with your friends and family whether they’re in United States EU que and wherever they’re at but if not he’s going to be connected with whoever’s in front of me I’m quite worried him we as a species are not just quite involved enough for hi he fast everything’s made thing and they’re gonna really come a Cropper from all of this I was wondering if you’d seen the social dynamic the film that Nixon tell of this idea I was just curious if you seen and what you thought of that and I knew about this for the past ten years I’ve had top people easy to change people’s perception change elections in yeah I mean the other stuff they want a change in the past they want to change elections of other countries I’ve never even heard of them just like I feel comfortable doing this like this like twelve years ago and then after I realized cantor sending online everything that you see is done by mark very C. online it’s not the best product or service just better marketing and it’s got to everything with a grain of salt just because it’s at the top doesn’t mean it’s best screens they did better marketing and Google trust him or Facebook tracks and more some people trust them and they’re probably reliable they’re not gonna scam you but doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best product or service that you’re looking at that’s interesting that’s a real warning what I take from that is always take the time to slowly dying and looks through the options open up multiple doctors get one point if you open up the first pages of web or the first ten websites on that first page of Google or whatever search engine you’re on and you could see what the overall trend is and if you just see that it’s all the same thing that was talking about maybe that’s the accurate answer but if you see people give you different options different perspectives maybe you are taking a little bit more and try to figure out which ones right or wrong %HESITATION who is right or wrong I need to differentiate because it’s just people’s opinions are right or wrong less it’s a fact but even there you can trust with the PD and stuff like that there’s people that go in there and there’s editors work the top editors were they make changes nobody looks at that where site we make some of the look at it I know people at the top of that you pay them off the on any page even my country pages and change it where it’s like that’s right like they want me to select in the past I don’t feel comfortable teaching out even know who these people are a lot of teams that left the country to compete is but that’s all that stuff for you people just trust whatever they read online that’s I’ve been realizing of the past couple years it’s a force the people trust what they read online which you should not trust anything you see online because who knows he’s putting that stuff out there and the only reason it’s also diplomatic office just because ranking website at Google takes six months okay something go viral on Facebook takes one hour if you got a bunch of box to get it going viral which is very easy to do for not that much money it’s pretty easy to get stuck on file now it’s a little tougher because it that’s also the lamb and Cambridge analytica everything came out for that it was too easy to do and still is pretty easy to do if you have enough money easy to manipulate people’s perceptions it’s interesting to hear that actually there were quite a few people here %HESITATION on to what was happening and that that we were we’ve all been contributing to all of this for all these years I’m as much a culprit as anybody else from use of social media creating social media platforms that don’t exist anymore as well as you mentioned you know so we’re all in a way complacent but I wonder if there’s a way of turning into runs and it’s maybe a question of awareness but I think that’s just really important what you’re saying is just read more of the peaches come up in your search results on disco this is always a bugbear when I was teaching he had students even though they had access to university library they would go straight to Google and images she’s the first one %HESITATION Cheney search results so we come up %HESITATION as the references you know so I think we’re seeing a meeting point here where critical thinking just needs to just be in common yes I think even when you’re just looking for something you want to buy on the internet but it’s tricky because a lot of these websites in the past and stupid so someone make website called New York times and by B. and Y. then installing times a little bit differently like T. the number one and seven hi and the other T. L. so to else it looks like it and then they write content they shared on Facebook they get to go viral and they send people that and New York times website the whole point is to get you click ads because they want to prove it so right click bait titles that are fake titles to get you to go to that website it looks like New York times you go do it and then ultimately they want to click add to the more people that go to the website to get paper impression CPM model where every thousand visitors they get paid a certain amount of money so that’s also why a lot of people are doing that this is like five years ago eight nine ten years ago a lot of these websites are popping up because it’s easy way to make money very easy way to make money on social media or Facebook it is too easy for years people can expect websites take articles or they just copy articles New York times and just post on their own page and grow their pages in or they buy all ten pages web pages that millions of followers rebrand them and then push out content out there people see that this page has a million lights and pushing out content from New York times even though it’s not really the your ties but they’re not really examine the U. R. L. and then once they get to the website it’s an exact copy of the new York times it’s just as our own ads on it or not content on it and it works really well because people just believe it I mean I wanna see online and force they are believe whatever they want to believe that I can check his bias but after just I understand that most stuff is fake was that you see online is not real I think there’s a real contradiction then and and a lot of the messaging because I think that I’m a really big piece of advice that you tend to get is be authentic be your authentic self and it feels almost counter intuitive to do that on the internet wears so much is on trust birthdate so much as performative or as you say it’s trying to capture something else it’s about smoke and mirrors where it’s just distracting AT and then it’s just grabbing your money I mean do you have any advice Sir just placed a call it’s free some of that noise like higher people supposed said today’s not her she post to be themselves but be safe and SPS wires so much is fake don’t go on social because Google will catch the taking our time to not gonna make that website Google’s on top of all this stuff Google says who’s been around for twenty plus years they’ve seen every track in an odd spot that so quickly wears Facebook is anywhere not used to all the spammers and who’s all about cleaning up the web make sure there’s no spam so Google’s easily gonna find all that stuff and take it down they don’t know how accurate content it’s like if someone writes a fake article or like inaccurate information Google’s not able to fact check all that stuff they don’t have time to check that stuff but they have other singles and help them build that trust up like coming back please do people give you how many people talk about this website where is the social media is just how many likes you get like so pretty easy to fake it’s easier to go on these websites I these box that will just like your content and get it going viral pretty quickly so that one’s a little bit trickier like social easy to spread the fake news Google takes a lot longer to spread fake news because Google doesn’t rank websites immediately takes about six months to really make websites so that’s one difference is Google scrutinizes you a little bit more where is Facebook is just instantaneous that’s really interesting to hear because I think that these are things that I slowly come to learn just experiencing them myself yeah it’s been really interesting actually saying hi social media engagement has changed or has become non existent or is just not exist in the first place at times and as a small creator I’ve had times a night I know what they’re friends of mine here also %HESITATION and depends and small creators they felt the frustration of I’m working so hard I’m saying all the right things and following all the advice and I’m getting some traction I’m getting some engagement but these people over here he seemed to just be putting items and seem to be getting loads and loads of likes and shares and engagement and then I start they’re getting targeted by people he tried it by your time and sell you packages where they’ll share your stuff and then I think it’s not hiding it are they buying it are they buying leakage from I mean high press one it’s not it’s not happening along pretty much as a half also media’s fake accounts but who knows who’s buying them or not that’s tough to see if someone is or not but you kind of see through it sometimes if they’re all from ghost accounts or they don’t have one picture like that who has time to sift through all the people liking your competitors pictures and stuff like that it takes too much time we just focus on your own business if you’re trying to see if they’re buying fake flags because if they are working and there’s nothing you can do about it but you just draw your own by putting out better content and being better marketed by doing better marketing tactics that draw on real people the fake accounts I think that’s a really keep going and I think that was something where I hit a wall where I was getting very frustrated and then I realized that might not even be rails so like you say it’s just stupid thought energy instead of getting annoyed to price things just picked out energy and support your tan and take it to work so yeah it’s good to have that ability is by somebody knows what they’re taking can be a lot better to focus on yourself and not worry about the competition because you can’t control them they control yourself what you’re doing if you find tax useful with your podcasts we’ve got two options for you you can subscribe to the audio visual cultures podcast when you change for captioned videos and you can visit audio visual cultures dot com and click the transcripts top both sites are linked in the show notes along with information like this episode some fans and just because I want to try and focus on years violent again a bit more and I’m just thankful about your business but the business of your building and the same switching ready while he seems to be really busy at the minute you’re also very generously giving a lot of your time a lot of people like me do you have a strategy to have goals like what are your ambitions for this business where are you trying to see Kathy restaurant do you think just wanna keep growing my business and helping as many people out as possible to get that free traffic from Google or whatever search out there in the future but trying to help people get that free traffic and I just keep growing the business to try to keep building up and building it up and take it to that next level and just see how much I could grow and help out apple excites me that SCO or social or paid ads but really focus on that SCO since that’s a long term strategy where is everything else you just kind of renting space off these platforms %HESITATION printing advertising space on these platforms as well as visit just over on that would you like to point listeners see where they can find your your website and read more about you and what you today so for everyone that’s telling and if you I create special gift for them if they go to my website it’s S. E. O. optimizers dot com forward slash get they can find it there and that’s a C. O. O. P. T. I. M. I. Z. E. R. S. dot com force I skipped the U. has hung his I mean that station can get bad version but they go there they can find I gifted everything else about me if you want to get in touch with things like that and then something else eighty when I speak to aghast I’d like to ask if you have anything in particular that you would recommend have you been listening to any podcasts or reading any pics or mean your show %HESITATION well researched on on all of this you really really know your stuff is there anything that you appoint people to words to try and get more information on this or just something that you’re just enjoying that’s not even anything to do with any of that so if you got something that you’d like to just cherish people the best place to learn all this is how you do you just go search on YouTube for things that you want to learn about and just make sure that it’s from the past couple years because everything changes so quick with digital marketing so if you’re watching video if you’re reading an article or blog post from nine years ago it might still be accurate but things change so much that it might not be the most active what’s going on nowadays so when I’m doing research and things like that trying to find things are topical and nothing’s going too far in the past but just trying to be as much as possible Facebook groups are pretty good nowadays to connect and like gays and learn and bounce ideas off other people that’s piling the better places I found his Facebook groups are really really well nowadays but and who knows what’s gonna happen the future but each of it’s always a great spot to get that free content and visual people want video content they don’t want to just read a blog post %HESITATION read article people’s attention spans are too short nowadays so visual content it’s really a everything is shifting towards it seems like anything that you you’re really burning to talk about eight that we haven’t touched on answer any questions they may sister anything you think’s really important that people should know I mean there’s so much with it I just keep working at it and don’t get discouraged and all takes time in nothing’s meeting with all the stuff so just keep pushing and working in the building up and building it up over time it’s just gonna keep on growing but don’t just think everything happens immediately it does take time to grow and get a following an audience get your website rank and all that stuff so just don’t get discouraged if you don’t see that traction within the first couple months because that’s a time nothing is immediate I mean sometimes you go viral but most people are not going viral takes time to build that audience up and just keep on working at it and don’t get discouraged and I think something I’ve really learned this I’ll say making this podcast it’s great to have a small following a dedicated following people who really are with you we honor really there with you on that journey and that’s a lot more fulfilling than having just this was quite an empty M. performative engagement or sharing of things in it when it’s coming from a really good place where people really are listing and they really are engaging and really are telling people that you didn’t get socks and that’s just much more meaningful yeah no I definitely agree one hundred percent it’s nice to have authentic people following you that really care about what you’re doing fans in the bullets unless there’s anything else that you would like to say %HESITATION I think I’ve I’ve learned %HESITATION some units been so brilliant stop machine but if there’s anything else that you would like to say I hope that’s been a really good conversation thanks for having me on and then we share some tips and I perspectives of everything going on in the digital realm this really is so it is it just feels like there’s so much noise site there and it’s really nice to just cut through that and get some clarity and expose the Cup to be asked side of stuff as well yeah definitely just get right to the point in the real information thank you so much

transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 34 – Bohemian Rhapsody, Queen and Freddie Mercury (reissue)

Show notes

In time for the platinum jubilee, enjoy this remastered reissue of lost episode 34 in which film doctors Paula Blair and Andrew Shail talk about the Queen and Freddie Mercury biopic from 2018 (BBFC cert. 12A). We get into the film’s troubled production context, Andrew’s love of the band’s music and its significance in film culture, and we touch on the depiction of Mercury’s sexuality, persona and AIDS, the amalgamated supporting characters, the narrative structure and much more. Enjoy and please give this episode a good rating and share with a friend!

Music: commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercial (3.0) license.

Original episode with auto-captions

Edited by Paula Blair with Audacity.

New intro recorded with Zencastr on 15 April 2022. Access Behind the Scenes recordings on Patreon.

Automated Transcript

Every paid subscription to these posts funds the text editing needed to improve the accuracy of the automated transcripts provided by our host, Acast. Hit the subscribe button to support this work for £5 a month, and be sure to check the box so you get early access to future posts ↓

hello I’m cold up there and you’re listening to the audio facial cultures the podcast that explores lots of different areas and found the arts and media I’ve got a cheekily time to re issue for you today the last of our lost episodes is number thirty four after fresh showed if the screening chats with Dr Andrew she’ll way back in twenty eighteen I thank the Ximen wraps today in the Freddie Mercury and queen biopic west a troubled production history the timing of this re release it’s a bit tongue in cheek and won’t matter told if you’re playing this at any other point in the future but this falls in the wake of Queen Elizabeth the second’s platinum jubilee I’m not trying to be political hello it’s no secret that I wouldn’t mind having a go at some sort of children %HESITATION Chris say on these islands but here we are it seems like as good a week is Anne T. celebrates a British institution for me I choose not to be bisexual son of Parsi Indian parents whose four octave range singing voice and flamboyant stage persona made him perhaps the greatest rock performer of all time but that’s just me before catching up with four years younger Poland and Andre a massive thank you to our champion patrons over it PhD on dot com forward slash AP cultures he enjoyed lots of extra goodies and return for their support I really appreciate Charlotte’s for AV cultures part on socials as well especially if they’ve got a confidence boost her and store I can always use those for example at the suit one hundred and twelve gas John badger reached out on Twitter but his guest experience saying holy cari if I didn’t know me I think I was mildly intelligence your editing skills are on point I couldn’t be more pleased thank you you’re very welcome John ideal for quality service I may not be able to pay myself for my guests but quality phone conversation are guaranteed if you’re interested in being part of the show as a guest to worse to have your feet background alright head over to the contacts and cancels features that audio visual cultures dot com for night the show must go on so let’s go stone cold crazy and write the wild winds with this discussion of Bahamian Rhapsody swearing this button mainly including from the film or things to be a mercury is known to have Sadam performed we also discussed the film’s imagining of mercury sexuality and its diagnosis and of course we spend a lot of time on the music and depictions of the performances in the film J. enjoy and I cried and sometimes picking up do you want %HESITATION I don’t because I think it’s been a thing for both we yes it’s my choice yes we can the Bahamian up city which once cinematically amazing as well as having for me that is fiction you can always it’s going to one six I still love the cinema the woman next to me holding service because they were when it was one of those so much for this story that Friday sequence is made you want to get up and dance so I didn’t remember you know it was great we made a rather silly mistake of going well it’ll be at three thirty H. Sunday off the main screen tell me no need to book ahead seven point eight six seven seven this comes doing really well this room with a fantastic soundtrack of course but also from six AM to you can see queen in the studio recording their first album really experimental stereo and circles in order to show that that being really telling the sun did you know what to do of course the same standard effects have to be replicated in my answer there was all this flipping the sound from the because that’s my my brain works these days in the opening credits when I saw Bryan singer’s name he’s probably the obvious choice but also he’s just a name at the minute because he’s one of the many people he said here’s one of those but I don’t really know the details a good few people I have been completely switch yeah for this goes to the graphic pretty much three yeah this customer doing just inserting himself in the Freddie Mac for this he was in almost every show he was physically ready from the first one we see and he’s getting ready to go out and listen to a little because of the way up to the very long climactic scene live right everyone gets twenty real time I think it was even that’s why he makes the words differently in the version of a thing that you did and they did not rami Malek the same slightly different ways that was very did they do that thing with by that point according to what I have been getting ready for so many times yeah given the switchboard the pharmacist is very easy to she gin and tonics one but to do it and it was the thing about somebody like Freddie Mercury so treating he was this one of I think it may take a couple I think for quite awhile there were rumors that one might have taken on the role of Freddie Mercury great so I think it took them a long time to find Freddie it’s important when you’re doing a this is what these real people bring lots of with the message John deacon rule really that’s fine walking across the really well done cinematographic Freddie’s head injuries reduce stress and these extra Charlotte reviews he’s on stage some of the show’s kind of extreme close up which you can only do by completely computer generated in focus yeah there is going on with having it going the instruments almost twenty three that’s our bus where underneath it went on before the storm runs right up said Brian may’s guitar I think it is control in the next couple of shots coming out I come like a drunk looking down on them and it was what I’m submitting it was a it was different from we will rock you stem from it was thanks to so many of them they had so many out there so many there was one glaring omission for me and then I realize they’re saving it the stock may know I understanding it of course there has also the show must go on that was one of the tracks on that album I think it’s awesome response he was and of course someone says the show must go on so even though that was not the clean up of banks and stuff in the last few months they did the eight story having him realize he’s got it and then having the crisis these going to just make music thank for this and it’s happening fast and this time he knows his time is limited so it’s very we need to have come and find me when it’s ready and realize I can dance strong this was a bit of a brave posing and as the walking off stage of the live in concert in nineteen when he lived for six and a beta six years contains these and I just became old enough to go and see I’ve always loved playing music by the time I was really aware I didn’t think anything about and I dare say going nine the huge presence of queens in mine came with me was my older brother maybe it was just yeah I’m from the south going okay so we know about this green which is eighty three known about more nineteen seventies going in the nineteen eighties at the end of it we it’s very few hits from that album they did in the early nineteen eighties and the queen yeah Highlander the queen does movie soundtracks there’s so many different queens and queen I love the jokes about finding love with my account please there was always conflict what to do with businesses while you can have a single which is over six minutes long which is perhaps how the problem I’m having my as expected of a DM all right his name okay so while yeah okay sorry this reminds the wings well doing this we want songs that kids are going to be had a specific statement that maybe not seasonal it’s going to be the and then some you know I would become a song somebody’s six German children many references fine where we needed to see if on the way like a rock the way that these relationships whether whether it’s not really ready to do another in the long term he was there was a new version with somebody I didn’t get he wants it to be perfect and then moves on to situation where they just good friends by six having this is going from strength knowing it’s not someone who comes in you know he says merry I think this is Friday afternoon for a while but you yeah she dismissed that’s never any acting yeah he seems Neil yeah I think this guy told me it was his minders manager every day nothing about it I do you know if any of us I don’t know about that I didn’t know anything about it so anyway the character he’s quite an emotionally manipulative controlling relationship the calling of the city and state almost and take them away from clean every this CBS summer to do so it seems like he thinks on his face I’m not sure I’ve taken that up right it seems like he gets wind of this offer he gives it to the manager John rates and says it should come from here so it’s all John ready for anything sorry is it could go either way and his idea returns are not some of it gets really hurt that they’re trying to break away from the and so but then it ends up later on doing it because this guy Paul is obviously one trying to siphon away from history France %HESITATION okay because yeah one of the best number I was really just an instance of an the case was over it was welcome to the forty in some in some of the albums yeah this is going to cost was this is somebody gives me an extra seven when the the recording an album right it wasn’t a modern thing that happened when I was three different events and six okay yeah re release do you have a sense the firm says this is Anthony from breaking get changing the dressing up okay London then you wouldn’t have thought that you she had a mistake three from the also this is the having this yeah we get you can get around it by just not having sex in fact with NATO’s so there’s no signs of heroin use or anything like cocaine use their hands heavy drug use going on get rid I think it he’s been led into this it’s almost like he’s call has wanted all the things in the failed the state becomes his best you know he’s a puppet master name Freddy gets Weissman merry comes once the reality it must have been but it’s just %HESITATION thing of all land when Freddie gets my stamp click on the one night stand or any Germany when merry called for five minutes from England fires on the spot like it’s sort of a seven everyone seeing again there’s always a knowledge base of things are you know you’ve gone wrong that’s when all the freaks come but that’s all taxes and I’m not the case Intel type thing you know he gets his money for doing all the media and by Friday my has anybody you don’t know to what extent anything straight actually station so maybe it’s a moment fading sorry for Friday that things happen it’s hard to know what the trees and hippos now could save this film which was finally ready we in a sense he was a ticket to the final when it came to do yeah yeah there you have it you’ve been taken apart just torn off to one side has been very Katie being quite confirmed with my family often really split yeah keep seeming to think that she needs it belongs to him yeah because the noise makes on this day we also have to point out that the way the film seems to make it ideal for families to get back together after Freddie has this crisis in Germany while buttons and pull in the license he’s in a relationship and also realizing the second going from nixes really wants to get nineteen point zero twenty one respond to the small people are comedy quartet whenever they recorded together since a breeding whenever there’s conflict one just needs to make it yeah everything’s fine so this one is complete another one bites the dust it’s just about getting anyone to do any work getting a physical fight and then I think it’s off screen it’s just John deacon yeah right yeah and I go three great wait wait wait a minute so there were these moments always gonna go wrong is going to come back together because their rooms didn’t even we would like to do and then of course when we get back together shortly before live eight and almost certainly didn’t happen because they messed it up together so you thank %HESITATION occasion either her sure more than a week Anthony it’s a working again a moment and I’m sorry the comedy of the film in dramas like this is really essential to have this moments here and there and a few years yeah it works very well and it’s very tightly times and everything the Christ really with it because it was great seeing it with I meant for the people who were clearly how can a day on not only does one is sure one moment of the woman next to me said during the summer end of it when they were recorded along to the on from the house and I was trying to persuade the executive of the MI paste by minus to release but he knows these online and I was and it wasn’t what it was before do this all right now but it’s going to be new yeah pretty plays a bit of opera it’s going to be a musical theater it’s going to be fantastic and he goes no one listens to all and the woman next to me when I heard from a seventy mistake you’re talking to the screen the screen is if there’s no one else yeah but yeah it was it was amazing the moment it was raining we watched it at home well I think I got really excited and saying things are going so I and we’re gonna be out of this building in about three minutes thank you well I am saying that we shades D. another proper operating as well a bit later when we got time to make some stuff I think is I think we’re going to need to get some details that we aren’t able to do at the moment one question for you %HESITATION did you cry I welled up a fair few times I have to say me too the jets that’s the kind of film where I’d wanna fill me with a disabled people see how much they are always the weather and I want to see when and where they only have get a free opening credits the twentieth century fox yes I did a special version of the twenty three folks from with cinemascope extension which was a rock version %HESITATION with lead guitarist Rafiq Bhatia I’d like to know thank you it wouldn’t surprise me Brian made today I think so I think this is why we need to go except from if you’re using the number for your records he was a British citizen from birth probably something to do with the fact that his father was he worked at the British colonial office in Zanzibar also that he was he was a member of several other bands before he introduced himself to smile that’s one of those ways in which they’re simplifying reforms of Larry you rex I just realized that I completely missed the Kenny Everett at the mouth I was in I didn’t realize that but I was a kid so slow why here even talking to the media on your part because I was like this is familiar I think that this is supposed to be somebody who I know come look at who it is but yeah it’s can well and the apparently that was a big part of the union reps to getting after it was but they were already made is there a quite flamboyant and that it was ever who first put that someone intent on national radio station on capitol Monday in the capital radio itself haven’t actually accepted the song ever it just pretended to accidentally play it John McCain ever played the some thirty six times in one day I thought there was something to do with it being a baby science to something else that’s the way that you tend to get someone to get airplay that doesn’t fit with the I could quite possibly spending mostly just reading stuff about thirty minutes server very firmly two three we’ve been reading about mowing get some clarification so interesting actually the production context it does seem to have been quite a dog for a long process yeah seconds with the director because we have both noticed at Baxter Fletcher was in there executive producer credit is often quite a waiting list of executive producers from yeah and this can mean quite a few things by inductively just case it turns out that he got an executive producer credit because he directed something like the last quarter of principal photography and of course started on editing as well did a lot post production director stuff as well after Bryan singer has what seems to be a family crisis yeah because I think I think a remember reasonably things like that but it’s just one of those fleeting things that you read and didn’t really pay much attention to it time and we’re also constantly having production news about films that’s all no it’s going to be coming out for several years yeah that we don’t get a heads up so we set the stuff for some catering and then suddenly there’s a film being released so it seems that this film has been in production one from another well the it’s been being made because this pre production in one form or another since twenty ten and so we’re quite lucky to finally got a film out of the big team of people who were involved in this which included Jim beach repairs in the film police who has played in the film very well by Tom Holland that someone that doesn’t do much actual using his face but I think then it’s just the person who you cost is people who want for express via place those people very well he’s become a real stalwart I think if British film he’s been in so many days and take up also should have been found here is fighting and that part I think it for sure members wasn’t he the real reason he won and prior to the carribean in the second and third seconds ones that’s my first memory of him yeah but yes he’s good at playing those characters that was nice actually to CM as one of the back bone characters and Bahamian upstate it was nice to see him as a guy in his reading here about a research project undertaken in twenty sixteen to understand the appeal behind Freddie mercury’s voice which president for that he definitely had a vocal range of just over three octaves which is quite some right and that he has a fast of a broader than the other thing is that we get from having a scientific explanation of why this guy’s voice was quite amazing okay put the sounds on me we’re in a situation of being really unable to tell with this part of the sounds are it seems to have been placing a layer of forty are from old recordings of Freddie mercury’s voice on top of what we’re getting from Ron Maddox force them certain points where it’s running Malick singing and then certain points where it gets a decidedly different quality of because he’s trying to sound as much like Freddie Mac as possible so the real uncertainty about his voice to getting anyone what of course Dr Barone I have decided to compare the size of our queen collections mine’s quite fragmented though because a fellow friends it’s just a few songs from lots of different albums I thought it was from someone else’s special collection sweet lady one of the lessons and so much of the upper this is the one with the line that’s really killed in the phone right one of them says this you call me sweet like I’m some kind of cheese some of the lyrics to some of the lesser known songs sound weird but it’s not like the lyrics to that mornin songs on tweet it we just got used to these very weird things that you say in a big operatic voice when singing the songs and you do rarely sang the songs particularly doing karaoke other Beltre’s it’s safe you can call them this because a lot of things to get serious I think to try and give things a better border where they basically think it by the film as biopic genre it feels like the wrong term sub genre feels like it doesn’t do it enough justice but the biopic as a mode of storytelling in film is something I find really fascinating the overwhelming narrative and biopics generally tends to be the great and history services but this one central character he’s the hero or anti hero of the thing I think what I really liked about this is that it’s not titled Friday it’s not type of mercury X. title but he may not say I’m not very much Freddie mercury’s songs but it does mean is more about the bonds and they are such a huge feature and so much is made of the bands in the film especially them all referring to each other’s family they find their paper I find their tribe that’s part of the look of the film when someone refers to green is very friendly and Freddie goes then all my family in the early stages not these people are my family and then after you go through a crisis and it goes back and he arranges this reunion with them then he says your my faithful that calls back to the very first meeting I have with people from nine AM Miami Freddie says where the mess but don’t fret and the other members of the band talk about as being a fun night because none of us fat and the people that we are doing this for don’t fret wear a different kind of family so at Kohl’s box that so Friday and sept and say that but he’s part of that discussion they are saying that my hands the films about queen back coming as clean as they could possibly get you off the first trying lots of different ways of doing it and getting it right at some points and not getting it right now points and I suppose that there’s generally fit with the stress of what I’ve seen and I do get the sense that we’ve got lots of moments when we’re getting a fictionalized account which you might be trying to make everyone appeared to be better people than they actually were and it definitely begin the fictionalized accounts which is making it one appeared to be a lot more power I think in the way they speaking yeah the people nevertheless even for the metric that monologue about fruit flies wow I think it is it’s done between two people who are looking at each other yeah definitely come here it’s an extremely heavy rain I mean turn around sell dying poor suffering in taming taming ran looking away from each other and talking quite quietly and intimately away from the other person and they must be made or so parts also Freddie’s clearly not while it also seems to be something of a rule now the you start films in media Raz for a minute or so and then you go back and start to the beginning that’s just how you do it but I suppose it’s not even the media rights because that means in the middle Steinman we’re talking still in the midst right near the edge well it’s like the CODESA and music acts establishing the same addressing the endpoint and then going back and then you can actually at the end our first few moments on this front America waking up in the morning of the live it comes at the cost a couple of times and then that’s it and then suddenly after stadium he’s getting ready to go on stage or anything from hauling waiting I’m just about to go on stage and then reflect back to him working as a baggage handler Heathrow in nineteen seventy until often going to be about getting back up to this moment I serve right from the beginning it’s made clear that yeah you will note that this is going to be a story about someone getting it I’m more sure that we know that you know and we’re gonna get back but first let’s go and do a story about people making music the most fun bits were when the band and playing time to come up with something that’s catchy when they sell a van and pay for a couple of days in a recording studio and I just making stuff up as they go along and the recording the album that’s called queen might even between two actually well it’s got seven seas around it because that’s the seven seas rise I first hit and it’s one that most people haven’t even heard of and it’s very hard not much guitar and that was really enjoyable certain people experimenting insuring how big they were on stereo such that they will actually start to where the tapes out they recording is they’ve been recorded over so many times and they apparently they would know what that this the point would have to stop re recording and recording lies of sound on these types because if you held it up you could see through it and I just love this idea that the recording medium suffers from having some which pertain to it might just start to disintegrate where is the way we record now the recording medium we don’t think of it as something that has material now it sells them quite virtue of this nightmare is burned from the very earliest appointment a recording being really into using stereo which wasn’t new technology in your average person’s home music system hysteria been around in cinema since the shift to white screen star had been normal since four track stereo sound a bit normal since and being that band here basically pine in the music video while I’m running please bring a song which laments the death of radio because of the size of the music the foreign army radio Gaga and being around that was huge on getting audiences to be part of that case they hit those three not stereo music video %HESITATION mornings in part I. gigs and they didn’t even do the music video bet with any sort of pain let’s invent music without having that account of an invention story they just had it so that one of those magical realist moments occurred where the couple of images from the Bahamian up the video just appeared in the background is one of the scenes and I was there you know over the noise that they invented music video on we got a lot of boxes we were talking earlier record number eight the audience participation because I was saying that I haven’t made a trade with me before hi much of their work was involving the audience I remember being at the fourteen or so and being just totally captivated by we were rocky and it’s such a simple notate the thump class you know from from clap read that rest is really important well let’s step four four one three three four the sound is yeah it just hadn’t dawned on me but then maybe that’s because I was too young for crane to fully appreciate crane by the time I was aware of them U. S. hearing queen songs on the radio their songs were on and films on compilation albums I was getting and that would see the occasional video if I was watchin MTV VH one or one of the music channels as a teenager so it that participation but just haven’t really checked with me and tell me anything on the phone today and of course we were rocking it sends me in London and they make the narrative %HESITATION I’m not really fascinating it’s nice to see that story of the pond really laughing and interacting with their audience so much because so many biopics and even fiction films about musicians and bands so much Batman and upping the adoration but not really thinking about it their fans not really having much relations with them but this was so different and even as an audience member saying the Salem he felt like part of it and there was so much participation actually in the audience you people clapping and stomping their fates and speaking to the screen and you know and it was a code violation that I think Sakshi exact %HESITATION and if I’m like that when you’re engaging directly with them and they audiences that are way fast and each other those legendary Mexico around about the different versions that for you would do if the federal yeah you’ve got saying we have we we did we went to this concert well okay while this comes that way did it so that there was twenty five not so we have to remember that back when I was a look at this okay there’s also some very things we say at the end he would of course at some point guard now the going is over but we have to do it in some way so if I simply say well you’re good and he would often say you fuckers it good and then probably like once or twice he just went fuck you as if the guy %HESITATION content do you or do you assume that evidently it no he done that well before it was something to do with it bye bye I’ve got a D. V. D. some of queen during a concert in Montreal in the late seventies he stops awfully close by them hello this is wrong he’s just wearing these tiny shorts it’s not so hot AP just shedding light on for their dynamic case made hi Amy so can addicts is the for you to use the person maybe that’s why I felt some degree of affinity with anything alive is because he would not stay still loves the kids really fidgety anyway I think even relative to other kids at risk but you see that and someone he’s become the superstar and has managed to make something graceful and beautiful and engaging articles mace ments there was a point I think it was with the miracle album in nineteen eighty nine well one of the songs that they did and also just while I’m on this page the cover for the album %HESITATION yeah I really did not want to have to stick together so that between them they have one two three five five online there’s no K. all his views but we seem to have pretty much resigned to just wander into it what details eyes anyway one of songs is the miracle the video for that they didn’t use the bans the use these for kids I think the bond to pay for about the last ten seconds of the song service for kids and they do the entire song as queen in each one of these kids whose London has learned how to do the person that I think so because they want to learn how to do it right to take a look at what he’s learned how to do John deacon has just learned how to stand very still complete and expressive one is not available to take residents about Spain he does with the the customer is not happy for the victory of the problems from testicular across the states back and forth a part of the band said when they finished watching over from happening because a banner that read the music that was being found they said can we do an anti tool for okay this story many of the songs I have not heard of such a long time they did want to three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen if you count the soundtrack to Flash Gordon and of course the kind of magic which is essentially the soundtrack to highland fifteen albums including the made in half an hour when the when the recording and fuss free months of Freddie mercury’s death that’s well over a hundred solution can we name more than twenty of the top of our heads that’s one of the things I suppose about this was that it said you know these fifteen green songs that you know your going to happen now that was the big when he learns he’s got aids they play a little bit of wants to live forever without making any mention at all of them having recorded kind of magic because that seems to be what they were recording when they did a lot of it comes out yeah we must not get the satisfaction figures mixed up with reality it’s easy to see that as a documentary Hey Mike Sanders %HESITATION talking about earlier silences the characterization of everybody like a lot of people’s characters you’re pretty flash story but also you know it’s brilliant to have more representation of north and Irish slash the people onscreen but it would just be lovely if it gets really not all psychopaths and manipulators our system thing or if both are better life class but you’re saying it seems like people I can the characters like camera mocha nations with lots of people I’m looking very yes it seems that a lot of the people who are real life people a link in the process to clean up the mess the several of them you are cleared customs in player will printer as the manager well pretty much ready made it public in November nineteen ninety one and a half days but it was an open secret by that point %HESITATION the cashier full friends are supposed to represent them in life if they refused TV footage as if that was a very yeah another piece of actual TV footage with somebody real quick before breaking away but as for her that she was not to care it could just be representative of that kind of thing happening in celebrity culture the towels for lots of money story nineteen seventy four press conference where he was going to be with them yeah they really pressed the issue with that press conference of their with the journalist he was really trying to press him about his sexuality and of course it’s a much bigger deal than the night but %HESITATION so it feels like it could be very speaking to today because we’re still not a point where it doesn’t matter and people are still forced to commemorate that moment my brain many strange women women well then he simply not panic when amazing well zing that’s quite a while speaking in this room the terrorists a sunfish an ATM sign mid summer murders when he playing Brian main said anybody wanna talk about music M. three times you know I like to listen to the actual recording about yeah that would be fascinating is that screen which is now going wouldn’t it be great if people just hands yeah about what we do yeah you know and also the humor coming through as well because people are pressing Friday by and seeming like he’s been ill and Brian may saying what a cold glass break anybody’s interested and Freddie sank there for members of this bond I’m not the leader of the band there four of us here in your own asking me questions why aren’t you asking anybody else cautions was quite as compact way of getting across quite a lot of points you know and maybe quite skating towards the press but also I think it’s probably reflective of what has happened since then because it feels like it’s gone much worse difficult home magazines you you go in there shall be no you go and get your messages and you just say these things attached to or women’s magazines and stuff and it’s just these snaps private moments of people having a holiday and they were in a bikini on a beach or people snapped in private moments on the night of eight this is trying to be human BN’s and paparazzi aren’t even allowed to have interviews with these people and the quote from information from patient list people divulging yeah selves and their relationships with other people we do really we have collectively as a culture about the private lives of other people so yeah this from was costing about asking this court brutal question of why do we have so much money because people buy their first names that sound a bit I think even the family members living in might have been Friday himself he says you know we belong to them the longer they both but it’s outside of them belongs to the people hello it represents that hadn’t mystic sites on the performance of the hedonism because it does feel like a performance it feels that you know that it’s just the the lavish party that he picks on many has Sydney bakeries but also the really intimate things like they might have copped city has the temple they have their own room and this massive Haris there’s not a huge amount of time spent on any of that but there’s enough shot reverse shots between him Nick Hans you get loads of Kate cops show up and the firm because it’s showing me that there also his farm lane police cannot stop it’s Friday there are few moments when their cats were looking straight at the camera with my cats got like with the crossed in the corner I wanted to just be cursed see that side of him DST pop outside of his life it’s performing side of his life said going to the masochistic gay clubs in Germany side of his life but he had this domestic life that was laughing and yes it was very lavish because laughing at this price that and the faction one of the music videos where it takes the form of this huge %HESITATION he’s not quite the right right right but %HESITATION GS stick policy where everyone’s wearing mosques in huge flamboyant gay and it seems that that’s the kind of stuff you wanted to help you didn’t want didn’t want to have you do wanna do debauchery yeah the flamboyant yeah German things being exciting and people wearing suits uniforms many of us would maybe have a fee is at some point of our lives who will try something because we just want to be different or we wanna CMI that kind of person so you try something you push your limits and then maybe after %HESITATION you go to one this is for me I’m not being true to myself and so you come back again and it seems like that may have been his thing certainly in the film version of Friday that was what happened and it seems like he was groomed and so not by this character poll but seems to have been manufactured items seven people so to see how easy that somebody can be and then the pressures of what Iran and he got somebody Kansi harping on EA and if you’re factoring with your band mates all the time anyway and it’s a perfect storm of things this man to somebody he’s manipulative enough can just quietly chip away chip away chip away convention or something you’re not and it’s inching his Friday his younger shoppers much more assertive your call first tries it on with him when he’s working really disrupts embarking yes ready that piano he’s singing he’s writing music holds your hand and insects I know he Freddie Mercury and Freddie saying you don’t know me at all this is all you see of me is that side of things and then the power relationship with switch to Brian yeah the firm’s leopard the film the director was saying you know how does this sound that you’re used to well that’s where the sound comes from in some places this is how creativity I like seeing creativity represented in films because sometimes it’s creativity with someone just a total genius senators could have just completely thought of this thing back genius thing it mystifies this in some places went to the other in the spectrum where that knowledge I’ve been dreaming upstate the first I’m here is because of the sound bridge over a talk about to cry and then it goes to the cook seems to be going on at this farm so it places that they got these ideas from hearing the cries cokes while they were working from okay this use that sense so there’s a list of people when they created only do is they just listen to their surroundings we just watch their surroundings and then write down what goes on so with that account of creativity we get a lot in the experience I have yeah nothing you just don’t think I remember you just set up on both go on yeah yeah it’s also a really comment it’s a nice light comedy sign bridge missile you know because everybody really laugh the thought saying because it takes you off guard you know because you’re expecting the protest art and then you hear you’re going to hire me it will be mostly noises the in quite a few queen songs even late in their career Brian made as their X. and Roger Taylor upset does not the lead singers are singers one for example is it wants to live forever how often are ex and he wants to live forever a Brian may for the record and gives the best idea serial found at some point this call is squeaky voice that goes on in a lot of queen songs and dance Roger Taney yeah got a quality to it which is not quite as wide ranging as Freddie mercury’s but it’s still a Queenstown but then the film did also go you know sometimes the songs just come out of Freddie stern it really comes up with the first couple of lines of beaming up states I’m just sitting in a gathering of bang bang bang bangs it out and it comes out of him like he’s puking Mike this is involuntary thing that has happened to me is finished if shaking and so that’s the kind of midway point it’s not him getting the sounds from his surroundings and it’s not him having %HESITATION I’m completely in control moment it’s kind of a free between which I think is probably more accurate neither of these extremes I’m trying to find out more about the accuracy of the Munich episode but it’s a very private thing you know and it feels more like an imagining of that period of his life and then you don’t know how much of that has been imposed I think you were saying earlier it feels like the stereotypical with the heteronormative fearful thought culture could pay card to know right away and then we don’t know exactly what parts Bryan singer was involved way we don’t know what Stam dexter Fletcher might have them that would be very different from Bryan singer it is runs from threat to have been there during the production process make for a fascinating account of how films function the taxes that you’re having done sunshine on nice deal he’s directed back musical things before so he would have had that energy especially because that’s based on the Proclaimers songs but it’s a bit like mamma mia and that it’s the characters that are singing the songs so it’s you know it’s not by the bandits by characters and then a burst into the song’s scene %HESITATION their plight to this story so those bank great things the crowd getting involved I imagine that could be him but then Bryan singer has dealt with massive scale stuff and lots of CG I have the stuff is welding the superhero films I think it was important to get in somebody who wasn’t just going to point cameras axes he added this film because it being able to create these virtual cameras that can go anywhere being able to create these subjective Schultz where something happens in the background is clearly just happening in somebody’s had been willing to do that I think it’s quite important to give this the drama which they deserve Sir I think you know surprising twist but nonetheless a good choice actually it is left and which bits of this reflection bits in which yeah the rainy wonderful snow in net maybe it’s an archives yeah accessing it yeah because I mean even just that idea of Willis directors completed most of the film but has not gone a while so what do we date they have to get somebody else and then you’re a director in your really good director in your own rights but it’s not your fans a director for hire Nagy he has to finish it and try and have some sort of continuity with what’s already been done I mean that must be really difficult we hear more about this these days about people getting rotating partway through a project yeah directing from somebody else because I have been with soda in it of course you have a large three seven dexter Fletcher she’s missed rooms finely guessing may yeah seven years it’s a film about green it’s mostly down to about two thirds of its done somebody needs to bring it on home you would quite happily both directed in the start of somebody else and just take an executive producer credit with you just to get the film made all up so let me hear about what’s happening with the Terry Gilliam version of going to help you find I finally being made yeah that’s right but it seems that it has finally been made but then there’s a legal battle happening over whether it can be released and I think at this point this phone’s been waiting in the pipeline for so long however you want he’s standing right getting this thing released do it daily for the sake of the film for the sake of all Americans all these people’s lives that’s the thing it’s hundreds of people’s labor goes into they sayings and whatever’s going on with Bryan singer fees have stuff out and then in the past while this is a film that people need to say because this is a by Friday it’s about playing and try to understand the phone belongs to all of us it’s one of those it’s a story that belongs to all of us and Freddie is still so very low that crowded that we ran alone tells you that because Susan manning I think an older cried and I would strongly suspect a lot of those people who are fans in the day you know that young people and the day you have to work the band and probably saw them life and everything like that woman we spoke to the setting aside years using the Antares the other ninety chat whether at the end and she just loved it so much I mean I think if they put it on straight away again to the south American to after quicken books of his manager to see how I was doing in the states because the relationship between the U. S. fans I’m quite okay from the green that was mentioned in the film queen broke the U. S. quite early but then as the phone went out stopped touring in the US because of the video for I want to make correct very stressed I wouldn’t show that they’re too conservative and it was fascinating that saying my Freddy the man space because he gets the blame of but it wasn’t his idea yeah because it was Roger wasn’t sure it was he wrote the song and it was his idea to have some %HESITATION cross straps you in play women but it all gets in the presses or they’ll get to the end and scarecrows on Friday in the states it’s only been out for three days but it’s done pretty amazingly at estimated fifty million for these first three days that’s quite alright fifty million for a film with a budget of fifty two million on its opening weekend it’s been awesome appetizers the firm has every reason to do amazing cameos well judging by today I would say a while here because of the high on the show for the Tyneside to be thought popped on a Sunday afternoon when did it come out in the case and I think just a few days ago the danger does this count as its opening weekend here at hospital if you need to check I do have with people some critics have been Smith they have may I think there are bets where the added and then sings my dipping back row play other bets where the C. GI helping the cinematography was Belfius for me especially that could go injuries the bus but sewers and into the tour bus in there any ass I’m not window transition in the from one screen I thought you know that would elect Kate maybe fifteen years ago LX nine back it’s fifteen years old stop transition and could have been a lot smoother but then maybe so much of their budget went on reconstructing Wembley because it was an eighty five because it took the lion’s head sets what we just did that because of the front but the rest was computer generated yep and that would have been a lot of the C. T. I. puts it would it not something that bag and not many people on the stage he’ll just to give it a day at work it’s opening weekend was last weekend this is its second weekend in the UK days during storms I would say this is been raining on them to standards to have a center near its maternity have lost touch with night but I was very good friends say when I worked in Tesco years ago she was just the hugest queen and Freddie Mercury fun and the whole world to see George Friday and would follow some of the tribute bands and it always goes in them I’m trying to remember if the tribute act that she’s going to say the tribute act I was trying to remember the name of his flash Harry and the peace to Northern Ireland I know that people like her would be the first in line for this film %HESITATION probably see it multiple times I would say this is one okay a lot of repeat custom this whole podcast episode on the center is in at the %HESITATION what films have you seen more than once at the cinema Ghostbusters twenty sixteen how many times twice and that the right one and three times and some of them because I’ve never seen a no more than once in the cinema it just fails even when they’re amazing I just have the patience to wait yeah I think the second US marshals that’s all I think I saw twice invalid code on which one was up the spy who shagged me without a for sure our website maybe it was a spatial let’s guess is another Mike Myers thank it was the one way faster Graham first name is Gordon powers count on international man of mystery nine ninety seven that was spacious rooms at this price segment in the third one was Austin powers in Goldmember the other two I think I saw a lot of sense and I think also the fact from twice in the cinema there’s probably others have sentencing minimums I seen dawn of the dead and site specific screenings of the film festival twice once was a Halloween screening and consequent shopping center so you’re and shopping malls schools one thing down on that initial come off and it was a mid night thing as for the phone this is two hundred people most of us made up of some thank you and the other time was all planned that alive sign track record in water from homes and nursing well there’s a green connection here because not only is this the band he gas %HESITATION soundtrack albums for film this is a band whose music was it just the music of Freddie mercury’s used as positive Giorgio Marin his soundtrack for metropolis all right I don’t know actually in queens the first quite big fans of a cinema and so called music videos include little snippets yeah references to other films and the music video for radio guy got a bit of help from the top this is the group who when they had the opportunity they’d like to orchestrate some sort of visual track to go with along with the music but he was like I think even maybe sign tracks because this is some fan here hurry interests is a mess and I think I’m becoming more aware of it more interested but certainly maybe sign checks done by pop bands or contemporary banned the use of non classical and rock offers not kind of thing but also there’s the phenomenon of the west and shows and stuff because she’s saying we will rock a yeah I can do something that will reward but looking into because the norm with friends doing maybe some soundtrack seems to be that rather than it being a band comes in and watches an unaccompanied version of fast on composing music yeah it’s the early on in the writing of the film and gets a concept towards hearing comes up with a song and then if %HESITATION trying gets released well before the films come out then the passenger cabin mates online which will include one of those tracks and a bunch of other ones as well so it’s this often quite messy choppy prices so that it’s not quite the same as you get a composer and and you go OK sometimes go put music on this so often it’s about because if you’re gonna use the name of the bond in marketing the best thing to do is to have something by that band specifically to do with that film ready to release well before the fed meeting us at the same explosion marketing yes I’m ready if late to pre sell the phone but also nine it’s become so common to use already existing music assign track me say so not just temp tracks anymore but said bill told them so the likes of mamma mia and sunshine on the street you using the music of a specific plans to build a whole narrative around isn’t this stage play we rocky isn’t it that like that yes not exclusively clean but it’s not rock opera thing is that we are is we can take a bunch of queens arms of a gonna have characters in a narrative where every now and then one of them has to stop and sing a song about the situation also happens to be a quick so I’m just going to work out there was a bit when I thought this music is from the future of the time when things are happening in the storage space because it was one forty but it helps me was having one of his first big lavish parties and the music off of this didn’t come up until about ten years later it was kind of touches but it was what that was sampled from most none it wasn’t and see how far it was heat sample thought you’ve got and you have a mixed up with vanilla ice MC hammer born Stanley Kirk Burrell let’s work out the timings on this coming soon okay conducts this %HESITATION you can’t touch this nineteen nineties so yeah we were getting a piece of nice Cummins okay federalist use the baseline from under pressure completely with permission as part of his made in nineteen ninety yeah I know that I was talking of a baby contestants will not and then it was it seemed to be officially it was music somebody was playing at Freddy’s party that was supposed to be happening in something like nineteen seventy nine but you know this is music from nineteen ninety but then of course I realize no one’s hearing this music at this party this is just incidental non digested music but I also so is it weird that they’re using popular music from future history space as non biogenic music not samples from the disco chart I don’t think so okay I have to look this up okay all right the some samples the permanent opening riff of the Rick James song super freak yeah that’s what I saw you’re going to tell different just do something I just do the thing okay friend what is super freak nine eight one that’s what I was trying okay so we can all right then we’ll go back and have this because I can sell it no no in the sense read the credits okay Rick I’ve mixed up to preclude the context okay sorry since nineteen eighty one might still have been in the future when I was supposed to be happening maybe that was there any any specific not long after that that that old because the party goes to Munich in numbers nineteen eighty four that’s a pretty discography data raises nineteen seventy six news of the world nineteen seventy seven jazz nineteen seventy eight the game nineteen eighty plus gold in nineteen eighty and then hot space which is the poppy one nineteen two okay it roughly fits with that this is a highly compressed gases and tiny okay will not actually move to pieces of music and that rendition of bohemian Rhapsody from stone cold classics compassion is at the very first green of my arms his greatest hits one how did that happen I want to know how it is that people get const as real life figures and also have an acting career I just checked the bios of each of the people who played the names of queen everyone of them has an acting career %HESITATION in Leicester’s one in several places because rami Malek isn’t a Gyptian prince in the night to the museum films very posh well spoken prince was over then have some career and it’s been picked as these people who they look exactly like it seems like astonishing lock %HESITATION just great head makeup and prosthetics well I would say so yeah widen somebody’s knows a bit the picture of physically lands yeah maybe yeah he looked very different but the big Brian may hair you can believe it Brian may have a million five reserves a dramatization a few years back all of the early career of the punk fans up to that point when they have that TV interview about life of Brian okay where Malcolm Muggeridge was addicted to them the six because he got to play the Parsons with total spitting images of the Balkans when they’re young I suppose it’s just a matter of you get people he really wants to play the part and then they can alter the face shape just low bat makeup of prosthetics and hat yes residual current sevens world but %HESITATION everyone’s saying wins wasn’t feeling a little bit betrayed because I thought is queen a head banging okay so this one of the tracks has about a two minute bit in it which is head banging but is anything else that they do hate that he felt slightly between the trash like green have been taken out if the needs that they have for themselves and claimed as it happened which they never will never work and this is still operatic it is mixing them but yet again wins well that was an early beginning of my awareness of Clinton and then also that same as parity and a space from coal loaded weapons I was respectively who is a member of the menu Estevez ready for you yeah and they have a party that scene from Wayne’s world the car is from the makers the naked gun yeah from China yeah I can picture the diagram right now if the relationship is a lot going on yeah there’s a lot of things that are making it because even talking about it from the movies are there there is some some research on that %HESITATION dawn of the dead in terms of thirty ten yes queen what do you think for the benefit of anyone who might actually decide whether to go and see this phone off depending upon what we say I got to a fake that anybody got some touches me tells me I haven’t seen the films that you’re talking about it so I’ll listen to the episode when I’ve seen the film because we are pretty spoilery maybe it’s different Mrs likes of a biopic but then if you didn’t know the life story of someone that is going to be spoilery at such an enjoyable film is really rising it’s everything you want like and that’s all the songs probably the economical are going to be in their candy floss the elements of it but none of it is okay now here’s another song that you like that you really want us to play for you everything is motivated the axe ready well earliest it’s from the main piece of cinema okay perhaps we’re getting an account of reality which is less interesting than an actual truthful one would have been in places where there is this big pressure on all the surviving members of queen in the making of a film like this which is that this is as critical as of Freddie’s memory as they were gonna let any film bait it does say that he’s not perfect it wasn’t easy parking and all my fellow this time but they’re quite special I think he gave the world something I can miss alive at a time when we could record him come away and say about boys but the voice is gonna last for as long as humanity can prisoners were constantly copying recordings from one medium to the neck yeah that’s fine because of the way that it’s going to last but that’s the beauty of it is well to capture that idea from recording on tape and the the lettering on the tape and the tape spring nights and then referring to all of that and that we’re not doing that anymore because the kids that attacks sure my signs and then dot texture being on the final as well when I was coming I thought so much a part of music for men I think that’s one of the reasons why me being an old person nine being a twentieth century person as that I think I get really bored with a lot of contemporaneously naive because to clean I like the Scott Tunis I like that I can hear it the media being ace and the twentieth century in this room excited about the technologies involved with those of people throwing vinyl at each other yeah this is a physical object thrown around the room and the sufferings being around yeah it’s not carrying signs on my back selecting a few files someone recording the missing a lot of tapes on reels back in full force of personal voting looking at the rewinding it so having the way it anticipation off of things that said putting candles on microphones throwing coins on the drums during the year on the job that was the thing there’s so many shots of Roger Taylor smacking drum water coming up from the phone book the film plays it was lunch the day after Houston’s Devin the sound in a second phase you Hey it’s catching the light so it is something visually exciting it’s almost explosive it’s like fireworks it’s it’s another health benefit going on was definitely part of the queen yeah that’s what I thought it was worth the drums officers contractually that’s a probably be I well after its bond sentiments anymore if you haven’t seen it on the run is over and send them back really recommend checking out or even if you don’t clean funny probably with the body and the glasses are not entirely rose tinted no they’re not from %HESITATION I think the best biopics are like in the summer the costumes