transcript

Audiovisual Cultures episode 113 – Star Trekkin’ with Dr Andrew Shail automated transcript

can Peter replace first archive file hosts log star date ten March twenty twenty point seven the do you fancy watching some Star Trek the next generation with many of which fits of it when I was a kid but I think I missed the first few entire seasons and just watch that to pasta it's called encounter at farpoint one opens the first season I watched it yesterday and it is minutes ropey but besides it might be fun I'll try I have never been in this star trek through you will check and I'll sit here and say my nails are something hello Sir okay start date fifteen January twenty twenty two point two and there's a four season of discovery to get started on this we haven't even started the card is a ten episode season of thought and I'm dying to see what they've done with seven of nine and I haven't even told you buy property yet Hey just work there how many users are star struck we've managed to work so far across the ticket six separate seasons no no no I don't we have to fill in those short tracks we haven't even seen an apparently nor dax is %HESITATION me as an on hiring yes and there's twenty episodes not already hello and welcome to C. audio visual culture is the podcast that boldly goes say that collecting and disseminating arts and culture approximate time call up there and see I have a surprise for you the new year listeners may not know this but I used to have a closer to show established listeners please join me in welcoming back Dr Angie she she'll play G. like set have a good explaining what we're going to talk about saying we are going to talk about and that's content to constitute over fifty one thousand articles on memory alpha the Star Trek wiki or at least we're gonna scratch the surface of that because even though we have watched six hundred ninety six episodes of Star Trek across six series wait we have used this pop them next time while we have not finished watching all of the Star Trek and we never will what kind of if we done this back if the world had organize itself better and how to pandemic back in about twenty sixteen we would have watched all of the Star Trek and that would've been it we would have gone tech stock check done but since what's known as the Alex Kurtzman area since he took over as showrunner discovery starts going crazy recently so although we have now watched three seasons of discovery on top of seven seasons of Star City next generation seven seasons of Deep Space Nine seven seasons of Voyager four seasons of enterprise and a season and a bit of the original series case for if anything and some of the films yeah we even though we've done that and of course in completely the wrong with that that's still a mountain of Star Trek yet to watch and it's being me is strange you wrote this for exciting I love what's happening with spike it's very important character so there is no point in trying to go into the chain much detail there's gonna be loads of stuff again and the fight so I think very quickly some honorable mentions say amazing music scores strider tests usually ready awesome so we'll see if we can circle back to at any time so many incredible actors directors %HESITATION ares production just really awesome %HESITATION there's so many recurring actor she aren't part of main costs but we keep recognizing and they keep going back in the PDF by aliens and heavy prosthetic makeup is that lots of people get to come back across all sufficiency research is really fun so many big questions so much to get into the merry anniversary it's it might be made %HESITATION I love everybody Panfilov said is there's just so much today so I don't know if we can hope to see much justice but I just think we've really wanted to send China plate this journey that we've been on together with state really leaving I think so I can find but I suppose it be nice to say is that it's but this time this will probably come light it will be a solid year and a half since she's been on the show I need pretty much started status podcast with me any words of I'm sure that we kids foster many rooms schisms that have full between you and I and I'm sure if I'm sure you'll many lessons have been coming up with their own fantasies about what happened between you and I but I have simply been watching a lot of Star Trek with you initially sitting next to me and then increasingly going where has the speed you know my and the watching is taken over from the sitting down and talking about it you know you still don't see it so much we cannot assume when we talk about it for two hours and that would be it that of course Star Trek will never be finished therefore we have to and lest we just at some point brit the plaster off quite painfully and go right we'll now talk about just the six hundred ninety six samples that we have watched I know it's not ambitious insoles struck by that many opposite but we got those down and we'll do another one about the remaining at least five sixty episodes that we haven't watched because because deplorable we haven't watched the animated series from nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy four although I do remember when I was a kid and because in addition I have been helping my employer read plan it's teaching turns ever so slightly accommodates two a pandemic that's taken a little bit of my time well I saw something quite fun to sit back and watch you gotta make friends amongst various humans you can make contact with via the internet these days you're free show it's fun just to hand on the baton of other people producing your free content for free so tell me how much do you make your patrons give rather causation number two hundred eighty six if giving away a podcast for free never ask patrons for a specific amount of gold pressed latinum we got a few preliminaries we need to establish in this %HESITATION put costs which I think might be a little this particular episode whatever's records might be a little bit longer casts as the other ones right so this is the way that Star Trek books you got the series that was just gonna start track which is closed down and started a business series the ad between September nineteen sixty six in June nineteen sixty nine that was seventy nine episodes across three seasons you got started the animated series September nineteen seventy three to October nineteen seventy four which is twenty two episodes across two seasons he got started the next generation between September nineteen eighty seven and may nineteen ninety four that was a hundred and seventy eight episodes across seven seasons with twenty six episodes in every season except for season two or ten twenty two episodes and we don't talk about season two the number but we will talk about season two and then starting but part way through the run of stars and expiration which we will call TNG we we we got Star Trek Deep Space Nine which ran from January nineteen ninety three to June nineteen ninety nine almost exactly the same as T. engineer had a hundred and seventy six episodes across seven seasons so Beijing because at this point and if we're gonna do seven seasons and then we just stop we were trying to go on forever your standard Voyager which started in January nineteen ninety five again parkway three deep space nine that run until may two thousand one hundred had a hundred and seventy two episodes across seven seasons again twenty six episodes in every season except for season one in that case which had just sixteen then Star Trek enterprise from the twenty sixth of September two thousand one the thirteenth of may two thousand five rising ninety eight episodes across four seasons with twenty six episodes in season one twenty six in season two using the patent being established here twenty four in season three and twenty two in season four and that was it in season four wraps up very quickly because clearly it had been canceled by that point which had a lot to do with it having debuted in September two thousand what knock on effects and that is very unfortunately timed I thank I felt ready sorry for enterprise I think they deserved a lot more there was so many accidents storytelling and emissions the world went into a very dark place and television became very dark and it just had no truck with these explorers going also domestically making new friends I'm actually probably convinced that if they just had a different features the whole success of the show would have been different possible yeah kind of perfect evil storm of anti storm of what was there again and I'm to be extremely precise it wasn't cold Star Trek enterprise until episode three point three up until then it just goes into the relationship to Star Trek was quite arm's length initially then Star Trek discovery which runs as started running on the twenty fourth September twenty seventeen I would just have three anti seasons the season four started on the %HESITATION in November twenty twenty one to republics of season four well that was the one where we had started to watch it on Netflix and then it just wasn't there this thing happened and then we find out what happens it just been taken off everything ahead of it airing on power lines plus I think here in November and so we were left stranded in the mirror universe and sees I actually had to borrow DVDs this it felt very pleasant and %HESITATION and so started discovery ongoing is accompanied by a short season of shorts tracks which I'm not counting after this episode's between twenty eighteen to twenty twenty others seem to have stopped now yeah I'm sure you'll your listings of correct that one you got started comment which started in January twenty twenty is now have ten episodes in its first season at a second season set to premiere in about a month started lower decks which started in on six August twenty twenty and has had so far two episodes across two ten episode seasons Stantec prodigy so we started in October twenty twenty one is part way through its first ten episode season and Star Trek strange new worlds is scheduled to launch in the middle of twenty twenty two an abstract we are most excited aren't we given that it was set up set up in season two off discovering right so that is what Star Trek is an over at we've watched a season in the base of the original series none of the animated series all of TNG all of deep space nine which of course record the S. nine all of Voyager all of enterprise the first three seasons of discovery and that's it that's how six hundred ninety six seven zero six the series and then movie wise you got the star treatment the motion picture in nineteen seventy nine star trek to the wrath of Khan in nineteen eighty two and this too it was tossed thing that's been added by firms you know it's this number was on the post is is the name of the shop said the numbering applies for a bit so static three such a spark nineteen eighty four stomach for the voyage home nineteen eighty six Stantec forms the final frontier at nineteen eighty nine centric six the undiscovered country nineteen ninety one Star Trek generations the number has disappeared nine nine four Star Trek first contact nineteen ninety six which we do walk if you or any other matter was at Star Trek insurrection in nineteen ninety eight one of the like if I thought this is just a long episode and I really just enjoyed it and data cop today fun stuff on the cutting face stretching as run mostly remember from that that in having one's face being stretched could kill you wouldn't just really hurt mutilate you Kerry I still think nemesis in two thousand two Tom hardy returning Tom hardy young Tom hardy and that's it for the films in that timeline because two thousand nine a film called Star Trek J. J. Abrams's Star Trek started what's known as the Kelvin timeline and that's a parallel universe reboot so it's not a review in the sense of right and once we get that all the original stuff happened as spider man has repeatedly done during our time no Star Trek does reboots probably it goes someone's going to go back in time and crashed Powell universe at folk universe phenomenon for which there is precedent and this shows we're going to get on to forking universes later Carlisle's worse and TNT I'm robin successive films not from choice well it franchise is still the same franchise but in that element of the franchise the Kelvin timeline %HESITATION including Star Trek no code on into darkness in twenty thirteen and Star Trek beyond in twenty sixteen I am expecting more films one thing I I have to get down right off the bat is that we have out of these films watch very many together every week because generations first contact insurrection and nemesis for TNG ones here same thing either but we haven't sat down together and watch the original series films I think I've as a child I may have seen the force one that's the only one I have any fique memory cells more just because of the way %HESITATION and then they're on travel sentry yeah that's all I remember about it and I think we're waiting to finish watching the original series yeah and they will watch those and then we'll what what's happening in order for it to we totally the wrong road and then this will get something comes in timely ones because of because even though the Kelvin timeline films technically don't have any bearing on innocent we've watched they do establish two quite big elements of some of what we have watched which is that they stop list cinematography that characterizes everything made off the two thousand nine including or the damn camera cameras being upside down just cameras constantly flitting around a lens flare as one the song much let's learn discovery even though it's not supposed to happen in the same universe as the Kelvin timeline from the J. J. Abrams films it nonetheless he uses that same style as if it does and also the Kelvin timeline films they establish the look of all of the species even though it takes a big steaming temple Iverson ret conning that was done during enterprise about what click on this post mark so we will get some tools this way for some time and resources movies but your your question whatever done in the past couple of years %HESITATION Washingtonian reversing movies other stuff tastes are going to sleep I suppose in a way that has kept us somewhat sane during these very challenging times over the past couple of years this is not Penn and experiences been easy really for most people on and like most people we've had our challenges during this past couple of years you know we've had losses we've had major separations from our families you know we've got see your comment that balancing mine for over two years you know so there's been a lot to digest it feels especially with the TNG era which is when I say here at Tyson I mean TNG DS nine and Voyager several U. chronologically coherent so I mean the three of them they all begin to feel like family and you become very emotionally invested in the characters so I think that's where that has felt actually portent to watch of this time and I know that there's a lot of established tracking site there who have been doing a lot of free watching of the series as well because they're so comforting I think we are going to do something very sensitive probably after a short break where we're going to rank the captains and this is going to be sensitive because these captains on our whole family I don't know if I have to rank but I've got my favorites Michael the ones I can meet the watching we've been doing this off we should note this at this early point in addition to saying right we're going to be using these acronyms TNG DS nine and so on as kids I was exposed to the next generation Deep Space Nine Voyager cluster does as far as I was concerned even though I had seen one or two of the original series from the sixties I seen the Montana you ever read on all the time even though it seems some of the films that came out in the eighties but used as characters even though I was aware that there was a regional sorry Star Trek it was the next generation that was the original series for me as a kid and expects not unavoidable happening within the same story spice that roughly the same time I thought that stuff was old Houghton and I as far as I was aware of the original series was slightly macabre from what I could remember as a kid visit as very young kids and also really slow I think it was because I'd seen the cage he originally on a pilot broadcast on TV in the eighties and it was really set dates as a kid you just kind of you want things to rap along with stuff to happen as my own daughter has has pointed out recently when we actually sat down with her what you're really quite corporate drama episode of discovery that was lost fighting and and space peak that that is a thing in softek there will be some cerebral episodes that briefly gradually get you to think about new concepts so you know as a very young child from that barely nineteen next generation it had pace even though it's full of tributes to the original series it's it's a different sort of based and this is something that has become really apparent in watching the original series it's got a lot more license yeah I mean there's no series had the direct comparison that you can do between the episode in the original series where everyone gets infected with a virus that makes them drunk and the episode very early in season one of the next generation where everyone gets infected with the same virus that makes everyone drunk is the difference between people going a bit nuts in the first one and doing things are a bit out of character and there was no series found in TNG everyone get very sexy %HESITATION Wesley rack in the shaft and Wesley crusher it should we should also note that amongst these family members we have a client during these past two years and you know with me is required but the summers I haven't see data is somebody with whom I feel I can identify quite extensively and you have said the same about to pull G. yeah I think initially but Lana and Voyager was so when I went I understand some of her anger but her anger was coming from a place I don't necessarily understand but I think to an extent that geology or fight and today is there with her because she's hopping on half human and and has had a very difficult upbringing because of class so and I think she's very interesting in terms of cemex race experience and I think she she presents a really interesting exploration of anger as an emotion but then it was Juanmi watched enterprise to poll I just felt sane people say that you know I finally felt sane I'm so many Aspin described by people from the right side he maybe don't know me that well as quite a lace they think I am you know %HESITATION this is Bethany SMI whereas I'm usually carving in a corner because I've got my anxiety disorder and %HESITATION nobody's interested in talking to me or a some people have had the impression I'm a bit taken %HESITATION for scale but that's not all my internal experience I'm externally have disco lists or something or detachments but inside there's just a tumultuous of mine going on to manage and when they really explore what it is to be both can properly with her for the first time because it's not really a lot of folk and there's no balcony and characters until two fox doing Voyager and tape box quite old he's over a hundred he's also a man you know it's very different but when you explore a female Vulcan property for the first time and she's a bit younger she's in her sixties which isn't quite the equivalent of being %HESITATION I might be insured your thirties or something twenty safe and even younger that's quite young for bulk and adults she's a Vulcan to Haiti as actually finding it very challenging to manage her emotions and then stuff happens to her because she's really interested and humans and human way of life and she experiments and then she meets sees quite radical Hokanson she experiments about more and things go back wrong and things happen without your consent and so she has these experiences with her house and the decline of slots hi they deal with her I thought it was some just really excellent television you know and and the and the two story since you're starting to get a far better understanding of more neurological conditions like autism and ADHD and especially because these are conditions are very difficult to diagnose and my men so women with your diversity are socially conditioned in certain ways and I think being able to explore maybe something along those lines with the Vulcan character you know ideally in character it's just gives you that safe space or any parent with those ideas and then think about them in terms of allegory for humans nice to be that something we have recognised happening across the network actually before next elements of individual service but if something happens across the next generation and Deep Space Nine and Voyager such that the story of one of these many arcs that spans the mini series is the story of just recognizing that some people okay yeah you can't do that in the original series but you can make some very impressive metaphorical allusions to it you can't do it in the next generation but you can make some slightly less vague slightly less buried allusions to it and that continues to the point when I think it's in twenty sixteen and Star Trek beyond that we finally have an openly gay character and it's not a big deal and then in Star Trek discovery from the beginning we've got I got a couple something that gene Roddenberry sets that he definitely wanted to feature in the next generation but he had so much pushback his career was just people pushing back and going knows audiences will be okay with that %HESITATION and so we have slightly Lasko did every single time references to it even having the first night almost and not the first onscreen girl girl kiss in Deep Space Nine but it was an early okay the trail and it's supposed to be between a woman who has been amount before kissing the woman to whom she was married when she was a man so it's not technically a girl girl kiss a psychologically even though it is physically so you know it's one of the ways they bury this will get thrown to the implicit commentaries on sex sexuality yeah everything you have the %HESITATION involved in being a troll later okay I'm gonna finish that review so what did you want to talk about E. R. for the functional aren't you shale I am programmed in multiple techniques we've also tried to do a lot of parking I. F. what nationality might these we'll do a whole however it is just a home that and it changes over time does change yeah because I think you know at times sick thing on Sir quite Russian but at times there may be more a Japanese at times there may be mark Celtic actually think they're really Celtic but I don't know if it's still there there are some parts of the language that signs actually like different versions of the Gaelic language all right so this several generations of it in the original series the claim guns appear to be Chinese both in appearance and in that depiction as being a rising enemy that is associated with because China would have been coming next time but nonetheless it yet that kind of comes in mind is the Manchurian candidate Manchuria is a territory which part of it is in Russia part of it is in China the maturing candidate is entirely about Russian and Chinese communist governments or at least the agents for Russian and Chinese communist governments teaming up to create these sleeper agents in the US and I think that what we get in the original series going on is this implicit sense of you know obviously the Russians are our way we can think is India and in order to medium our enemy but obviously the Chinese are as well because there was a communist government I think that's what's going on in the region of Sears at least kingdoms that only appear alien by dint of the fact that I generally short with wide angle lenses they just have exactly the same sort of look about playing on this night it was slightly longer moustaches it's like a dark skin as is given to cite Romans but shoot it with one of the lenses to make the nose %HESITATION but bulbous compared to humans but it's just that the idea of sickening on empire and that there's an emperor I think it's great imperialistic and what was on that the type of mustache it because they have that sort of thing national Sasha because China Netflix it's quite Japanese to me so I was wondering if Smith in March up indecent intentionally I think that Mr Shipp hotly alludes to the Freeman chief figure which is in the history of fiction is one of these I can we're doing things in the %HESITATION in order of medium yellow peril they just figures of the early twentieth century and that at least check to China but it could be the I think that that vague oriental sing in the Vulcans and the Romulans and the Clintons in the original series there will overlap in this particular the opposite we just watched the first one of season two of the original series but they're going to discover Vulcan this planet which is just it uses logic it totally doesn't when they go to discover it's full of ritual and superstition and people fight to the death it's just it's completely incompatible with the logic principal right Sir Clinton's by the time we get to the next generation all in now Russians %HESITATION and wolf when he's brought up on us is brought up by Russians she had what seemed to be a completely appropriate adoption scenario where no humans could take this click on child other than double odd Russians by that point what we have with the falcons and the Romulans is this it's been explained as being this kind of cousins situation such that it's quite clear that the Vulcans are Japanese they are these possible competitors possible allies on the world stage as brio champions of science and of capitalism site broken Japanese and the cousins are the much less logical much less into cooperating with everyone Romulans and they correspond to Chinese people can access become pretty clear by that point is that we now have Vulcans Japanese moments Chinese king owns Russians and we also have the instruction of the flooring the next generation who would yeah but if we're going to do this a lot over the next yeah it is it's gonna work in some places we love that and vegetarianism and everything differing DO almost certainly Jewish that's right coded as sorry technical days I think yeah sure that money obsessed their neck is very knocks her out today so that was operating a year off the eastern Jeez kind of thing in Germany and it's in the space nine we get introduced to two more species who seem very very familiar to you the big showrooms in the Cardassians yeah I I mean I I I not sure how much intentionality they raise but certainly at that time and certainly looking at it as a post conflict drama which is massive and tasks of mine you know that the Jordans feel like the Irish and the Cardassians feel like the British I think a lot of the story arcs the comite between them and DS nine really explore that a big grant I don't know I intentional that was but it it maps on quite a while because I think there are quite a few scenarios where that could be the case a lot of the S. nine is centered around because the space station was Cardassian and it was orbiting the planet update your and then the Cardassians withdrawal after a fifty year occupation and the federation and he N. type role takes over the station at in collaboration with veterans because a majority like major to get back on its feet and become a member of the federation and then there's always tension kids page or doesn't really want anything they want to be independent they don't really want to be part of this other thing but it's a bit like Arden's being part of the European Union so its its own free stay yet but comes part of the European Union so it becomes part of something bigger than that south Stormont truck because the space nine runs from nineteen ninety three to nineteen ninety nine that is peace process based process shares so I really got a lot of thought allegory if you can call it that I thought it was really interesting way of exploring that and map some reading while I'm sure we've noticed and we're going to miss the thing within so much forgetting I'm not writing stuff down over the past two years absolutely no stuff to go to many more correspondences between species in Star Trek and real world the Ontarians are that I like that they play and I left there and their entire night and enterprise concert animatronic in Waco when I'm with my fingers ten a week on there's but one that preserved when Jeffrey could %HESITATION I know what you're gonna say I'm not just acoustic band during the he plays warm front yeah and difficulties he plays character after character of the character in the space nine that keeps getting killed off he keeps getting humiliated and then finally he gets a character in the space nine his long running character and who is although initially antagonist he becomes quite an important ally it's a soft leisure to archer stuff here right Sir and yet there was one moment when he's in a much is low ceilinged ready room on the enterprise and he walks on this kind of running gag about people buying in the head yeah I just got back in it he plays captain archer he's very tall and he has this quite cramped dental office off the bridge and he there's a long running thing of him always having to duck underneath they Sam beam that goes across and this one moment when trends in that too and having a very heated discussion and Sharon walks under that same be minutes two and ten I. Big Bend dunk so somebody somewhere had the job of probably by remote control any deflating thing within those and then I said that they would the remote control is Jeffrey combs he's just the right height to not have to friend sure band or anything when he walks on the lot Baines but it's just the way he doesn't his body doesn't install on the antenna to spam backwards we have to watch it every three or four times less than half the stuff so clever because there's no reaction there's no it's just the little antenna and all that stuff see that's the sort of thing loses a little jams that enterprises ready great for and it just I think it's just personally searched by the network at the time and it's the two you can this is fine it's just my shoulders too much time sitting at a keyboard you know %HESITATION I can't take chief okay Nero pressure he can even stimulate your own your own notes it will help you sleep or if their son during a meal it's very durians terrorize humans invoke lines enterprise implies that these four species that the founding species of the federation and so we're talking trying to think about well it's an illusion to something that happened in a post conflict time maybe it's about the second World War about the formation of the United Nations already exist among the net maybe about NATO so if it's not a tire may be the adoring suspects to be arrested signatories NATO %HESITATION maybe that Canadians they say they are from an icy Maine because that's the thing if I what seems to become clear and enterprise which wasn't clear when Ontarians were in the original series as I understand it is on to work as a gas plant and %HESITATION door yet is the main stock planet and that's actually the main that they come from and it's ready I see so they had to re insert the lady was white hair and then there's that what is the other this call to Qusay the explorer there's another reason they're white some kind of cause and not a cousin species because they can reproduce or talking a cousin groups within the same species and I forgot yes I just basically I'm Dorian's white to skin yeah and the slightly different color noise here but they've been nothing under grind this one which is why they're so very upset when I say that white I mean they're Pierre white person Dorians are quite rightly well at least they're very bright today and discovery even bluer discovery than they are previously and they're the same color as their annual I suppose these are things that go back to the original series because it was just what color body paint can we put on these people today because we've got their Ryan's here great and so you know I don't know he the Orions are supposed to be but they do a really cool stuff with them and enterprise yeah I think okay Orion's probably evade Middle East yeah maybe possibly the end are just some of the Asian or something because that yeah they do have quite sure because it's quite a dark green and they have black hair blue and white sonic and there's dancing and the women are very alarming and that sort of stuff and while we're on the window anymore but while we have mentioned that you're innocent Cardassians the mark he got sick because the machi a role for the federation citizens arrest each star off the people who have officially form let what people have left Starfleet site and they formed this terrorist organization but as opposed to freedom fighters at some sort of thing is one person sees them as terrorists and other will see them as freedom fighters and their son on going argument but not language so I think that specifically in the context of the bitcoins being Irish in the Cardassians being British I think that specifically alludes to ongoing conflicts in Oakland but the machi are almost certainly the northern Irish Republicans yeah there's probably a fraction of the IRA or yeah you know I analyze something like that there and paramilitary organization of course the big numbers of the Voyager is machi being reabsorbed back into the fold and cut off as the enemy but being identified with common ground with them being shad and just some smoothing over differences and yes this is a very very American %HESITATION right terrorists Donald pigs there's not much characterization of some items that are presently we are we are I know for sure we are going to meet them in the original series we just haven't done see yeah I think that's it from main species maintenance technical races down the trail but they're more well it's more of a gender the trailer is species that can combine and hostess and meant so this big warm slug like creature that can be inserted into them surgically and becomes part of them and the semi and can hold the memories of that person they joined together so they become one person dead biological sex sells the host doesn't matter it's just whether they can join or not and so there's the trail goes through your training process of many years not every trail is suitable to become a host and only certain people okay and they they usually choose CLA so that's where we kept acts he is and the S. nine and then there's a whole big backstory waste management Cisco he kissed the commanders and captains he takes over for the federation DC sign so there's all of that but yes %HESITATION this ambience plan is its own identity but it lives through the host and the host will change so they they left it long life so curse on tax dies before DS nine begins but he's over a hundred years old and then the docks and the end is given to a job C. yeah he becomes just see attacks and you take on the name of your simians and there's a trail in TNG as well explore that was Beverly crusher falls in love with that trailer man yeah and then he is feeling when debts the Symbian could survive they have another host and is temporarily hosted by the freaks shocker right at Johnson freaks and it's only temporary because humans so the company just long term and that of course and discovery they terms for machine then but this is very temporary because it it's not going to hold but let's just keep says Samantha lives until and you trail hosts can come to an end you trail hosts as a woman and so that's really the first time where they directly deal with it potentially same sex relationship and how they handle it is back pretty going I don't think I can do this he asked because I think the how many worked right to travel very well you know very much at that point because it's basically like I am exactly the same person I was basically a blank sheet when I was out of the person but it doesn't mean it's taken over where is in DS nine the flashlight a bit more and it's more like they combine with each other so the tax ambient carries the memories of her son and all the previous hosts and explore the previous hosts right the series and then there's another host because Jesse and it around Tyson as street as a child he is on the tree and happens to be on the ship that's transporting the semi instead of so much of this stuff hard no well this for sure the true alludes to real world people who have a different relationship with that bodies yeah from Zacks which humans typically have so my initial instinct instinct was these alludes to intersex people then of course the point there's also indications that they lived to transgender people these accounts because there's not to be confused both of which kind of reasoning that times trail can be used to create short term same sex love story lines and this is very knowledgeable in that next generation episode where we first meet the trail that when Beverly realizes that the man she's fallen in love with the kind of way %HESITATION symbionts that was the manager's she'd fallen in love with is not a woman share of it he says something like we not ready yet for that sort of love as if she's going just beneath the surface saying our view is all of this right now in the US in about nineteen ninety are not yet ready for this sort of life that we're aware that it exists and that counts yeah so it's a bit out of line with all these other things we go always at this particular species on this planet that corresponds to this nation honors with his political group but what we we could also do with the trial is take the fact that for them the symptoms of a stroke for it to be immortal we can't identify them with a religious belief system on us which believes in reincarnation because that's the kind of real world version of recurring condition being a thing so perhaps the truest supposed to be south Asian may be affected by this yeah but there are no none of us that they used to say lots of things about real world people and the man that tangent I was trying to say that in the nineties we didn't have some language that we have not yet arraigned trans gender is summer or intersex people it was a year a transvestite or transsexual the Senate a surgical sex change you know for example where is we have much more nuanced language during those things nine and so I think it was a really interesting way of being able see explorer your gender identity and that it can change or that it can just be so they it's you know it's interesting hi there are times when Jesse S. or a deer at and discovery he is to human character he has taken on SMB incident the Symbian wouldn't die and they join successfully even on the dear it is a non binary after playing a non binary characters so this is really interesting they're really exploring that with them where there are days where they feel either challenging one of their very clearly masculine hosts you pre prior hosts and they feel very masculine you know Jesse it is super into the cutting lines hi this is really in the fight in order to face pricing and all of that all of us said quite violent sexual rituals that come with being and she's super and all thought but then there are times when she's very gentle and smarter Erica it's feminine she's right down psych because one of her prior hosts was a dancer there's things physically she couldn't J. when she was at sea about not she's dancing stocks she's got more dexterity because of the dancing because of the fighting abilities she's gonna language ability she never had before they become more than themselves here there's even a series Indies an absentee space nine where judge David axes rest for crime but it's a crime occurs on tax carried out and they have to get into this issue of if you're the same person as the previous tax because of the tax and that previous stocks was not two separate consciousness is giving the same body that does not mean that that person's acts and any responsibility for any crime they wanted committed those are also yours as well because you've you still got that person's consciousness within you thanks so that by having a a speech from Cisco which he basically goes number eight when the previous house studies that consciousness is is removed from the Symbian a little bit the match for use is is it's a bit like dissolving salted water and then you boil away the water and that just leaves the salt and then the new host is a lot more water than that then has that self dissolved into it so it's a perfect no mess also going actually node and not to the same person previous person they just carry the memories of the previous person with them so that they can occasionally have a chat with them your suddenly they can six a piece of equipment because of prior hosts was an engineer and they call them such a memories of what they could do you know that sort of thing yeah exactly do you fancy learning about every pointing I've been fostering it recently and it's actually really easy and it's quite relaxing when you get the hang of it dammit she'll I'm a podcaster not a bricklayer I think this episode is sponsored by socks notify I'm digress Christine contesting servic hello to Angie stone crests and Uncle Sam if you're listening because they tend to listen to the ones that you're in yeah and we're both wearing are very special socks thank you semantic processing and I'd also like to say a big thank you to my mom and sister because they mostly found our Netflix how but only to the founders of the finished yes certainly right my mom this year has got me Netflix such as her my per se and then for the winter solstice festivus winter break thing so they are partly to blame for all of this murder rate I have to say it doesn't just live off we always hear Naples the neighbors are always somewhere behind the scenes %HESITATION right I suppose the first thing to do is to establish that what we have been watching has had definite generations and not just that the next generation is the second generation of shows there is a definite generation which is TNG Deep Space Nine and Voyager that single generation happens at roughly the same time and I don't just consideration because they take place at the same time becomes G. a generation because they have roughly identical story principles which is that why you sometimes have two parties where one ends with a cliffhanger the norm is that each episode is a self contained story each series might have a shallow arc is steadily finding out a few more things about a mystery stately encountering more more of the Bulldogs say for example this one quite a concert happens while this may happen every episode is self contained then enterprise I don't know though I think in DS nine no I think the dominion war is quite if banks were your homes and they're the first series stopped us three part arc since file yes right K. nine correct this arc stuff into space than when I went to all those dates earlier on enterprise started about five months off to avoid direct option and that was that was new because voices started while the space time is happening and Deep Space Nine started wild THG very Kerry over not to the extent that they had to characters from another series plus on the BOP no somewhere in their pilot episodes yes there was definitely forking of storylines happening there yeah with enterprise it starts off the Voyager wraps up it initially starts off with that same story principle but then you can see a gradual re setting of the way the enterprises told because clearly it's ratings on someone trying to improve its ratings by changing the format I'm one of the ways that they tried to do that is that across the whole of series three there's one single arc while there are some relatively self contained episodes it's always always sound a bit more information that's going to help us solve this problem with the Cindy and that we haven't seen across the whole season before so the point is I suppose to point out that we were going to be calling TNG a series the S. nine S. series Voyager series enterprise series discovery a series but they're gonna be calling this thing series even though at some points they will deliver to that point where they see rules rather than series %HESITATION they are mostly series discovery gets proper serial particularly in series seasons two and three we're gonna be calling them series nonetheless so that we have them distinct because this was service has a separate using which is as distinct from season in the UK we use series to mean season let's talk about how great series three of the why it was and it wasn't service to restore because in the rest of try to season ticket after awhile because this season as most of the year and U. S. TV series for us here and it's actually one season because he's eight six absolutes are assisting from twenty six yes %HESITATION series as distinct from season robin series insisting that every single episode is self contained even there for most of TNG Mr DS nine must avoid Jack investment prize they are self contained so what can be done I think it's quite important technology I mean we said it before but I think it's worth going into in a bit of detail I do you really feel for enterprise I think it was poorly timed and party served and no one knew without someone's whole suspicious world events happens the popularity of the TNG generation they didn't really want to let up on that but those stories needed to just stop and pause and take a breather her mind was in charge at the time was not still seventy thought he sends Voyager's wrapping up because they have this thing where as we've established they go for seven seasons and many stops and so they they and that seven of them during our work here is done yeah it's a long time you know and it's a very you know because it is the bulk of the year it's usually nine or ten months the cast and crew are working on this one show and thirty and eighteen hour days sometimes six to seven days in a row maybe one or two days off and then they're back again for another new solid wake you know they're not getting weekends and not ready can time their families that's a really really tough environment it's physically exhausting and after she well it's brilliant to have steady work and a lot of them will jump on it because it's steady work in a very intense environment very competitive environment it's a lot of your life to give up so seven years is sick a number where you can stop and go off and do something else to do other projects and still if you've been wise you can live off the fruits of that and then of course by that time you've been invited you're certainly the conventions are happening and a lot of these people they can they have also closed for the rest of their lives pretty much just stand the conventions the creases all that sort of thing but enterprise I think was probably quite rushed into production there is this idea to go right back to the very start because there's a bit of lower by the very first Cox and you know the very first not federation us the organization that would become star fleets you know their very first captain on a ship called the enterprise being cold archer so I think they go back and they want to develop on that and make it and church I thought and it's radioactive a six because you're having to go write this needs to be a hundred years before the enterprise we're familiar with from the original series and I got very excited when we started watching enterprise because essentially ever so gradually over at TNG DS nine and Voyager technology has got to the point where it was essentially magic it wasn't just you know that what is its office he talks and Laura which is that any sufficiently technologically advanced civilization is indistinguishable from magic it wasn't just things that look like magic to the uninitiated it was that it was essentially a magic you just say to vote emits an investor here on pulse and then it would just fix every thirty minutes I'm sorry by the very last episode of Voyager whether we're basically trying to do the impossible and then use the Borg's trans warp conduit network to get they were up against the immovable object of book technology but of course they were equipped with the unstoppable force of being able to do whatever they wanted with static great ship which distant tooled up by help from future Jane right and those two things they could always just get back to so there was always this technology thing of what weapons magic technology we've got much technology on it they just made that technology more magic solution accountability more magic and that was a big result of going up against the book somebody in the void yes the technology had just become something that meant that the laws of physics didn't apply to anyone after I am reason sap environment nothing's at stake so when they went back to enterprise I went back to the twenty second century I think M. S. twenty one fifty one the growing right we're going to a point when people are just starting to break the light barrier Cumans just starting to break a lot and they don't have shields they don't have replicates is they've just been given transporter technology by the falcons in that scared of it it's fantastic it just keep on the throw up the trick you just on their stomach to be slightly misaligned or something %HESITATION some of their items today just not in the right place so introducing limitations introducing actually certain being constrained by the laws of physics again I was really excited so there's so much potential in enterprise scorned it entirely by the sea in June and okay we the pharmacy because I'd really I'd like to get into the television contacts of the time of that history you know because nine eleven happens just as it's a bite to air and things just never really come right for it and it's not the programs files shows like twenty four you know counter terrorism becomes big thing in TV and so then enterprise coastline the counterterrorism rate and seasons rainy because seasons one and two you just haven't quite hit the mark so is there desperate to try and improve the ratings so they try to have a go at having a massive terrorism marking the do something huge because spacey and it's huge and so it's millions rather than Tyson's that are killed and there's this massive revenge arc and country terrorism mark it was only had a flirting with posttraumatic stress in my comment back in it's called best of both worlds as but talked about what he becomes book and it's free and then immediately after that they have a college experiencing PTSD well they had that with that before in the form of art ship I have this story here across the series does thing after thing after thing which is compromising his morality such that by the end of the series he's just a shell of a man who is constantly angry at everyone all the time and so two to four major decides the very next episode beginning I think the beginning of the fourth series to write one where he has to go to faces demons yeah yes to do what the Condit face that PTSD but it's much worse for him yeah even though effectively he's physically fine he hasn't just had all these implants put into his body and his consciousness change he's just done a bunch of morally compromised things because ever so gently into that twenty four territory of what we don't want to torture people we just have to and don't ask me why we have to yeah it goes into different areas and and it felt quite cynical and it's a shame because actually beyond that I felt there were some really strong episodes of television some really strong storylines and so many strong writing you know the characters are really coming to life I just think there's there's so many accidents characters and not that it was again just inching more and more and see a greater diversity of types of characters well and background to this character I mean who she is fine days Chanel I mean all of that translation at universal transmitter technology that's taken so for granted and all the other series we see the origin of thought and Hoshi Sato who he is is very young woman and she's twenty one years old when enterprise begins so she's twenty five when it ends on she's a genius linguist he has this just capacity and her Permian for language but not just language they showed she can pinpoint accents and dialects to rural areas and North America you know she's incredible and so her character gets flashlight she also the very first ever trip to rice said the pleasure planet wherever he goes to get laid we usually wait at sac state sorry rancor that we really can't and she slaps on an anti anti anti if ISIS Picard to go there for a better if our in our %HESITATION writer likes to visit ryssa actually io in enterprise say establish there the first humans to visit is the first enterprise team and %HESITATION she has a very nice time and she has sexual agency and it and nothing happens to her and it's really fun but how about things how all the books he goes all right you it and quite comic ways you know and it's quite it's a really fun act as soon as you know and it's she just makes friends by picking up the language she starts to speak ricin to people and they go off while you're speaking and you've got the accent that's really good and she also learns the language of someone else she's someone who isn't from rice he's got this extremely complex language picks that up as well and that's how they have the sexual relationship yeah and it just isn't she just leaves we can't saying and it's really lovely and she goes five mining and I'm a really nice experience for her no one's getting honey trapped no no one's getting in an alien parasite inserts didn't she has a nice time where is tracked and raids police and offender under punks her and Travis he breaks his leg or something my can claim and something like that I'm sure he's calmed an agent Karamat test its first season so it it sounds like it's slow but it's a really fun episodes you know things like that where they just really establish character and they actually play with some sexually agency for the young woman then they don't she and her for you know what happened she just hasn't got the time and that's it it is so I really appreciate it thanks I thought that they could take because finally there and the two sides and said they were able to take that step by tiny step yeah but that step is way ahead of the steps that the average moral principle is willing to take the question I was pushing as as much as they can and thanks to the track culture channel we're not the biggest subject that's by far thanks to the track coach online on and that they were doing something very similar with discourse about drugs during the nineteen eighties as a conversation between Tasha Yar and little Wesley crusher about drugs which doesn't take the just say No line which admits that people take drugs not because they're weak people because they're in horrible circumstances option and that really brings a sense of business lots of their when you tweeting about now we have another segment to record going on still not procrastinate so we're going to see Jesus yeah we'll probably need to build up to the S. you the original series I mean that is even before I had a notion of ever watching any Star Trek we all know that same chain as just part of cultural currency as Matt it's just so in bad it we all know that distinctive things changed and now that we've got say season tape and watching the original series now we've got the soprano and we rarely makes sense yeah you know what we're learning about this whole in the wrong order of course what we would do it ten when we go to enterprise we've been decked for twenty one seasons in theme music that was descended from that original by way of Star Trek motion yeah because the theme music for the next generation it includes the front fan from the original series theme by Alexander courage with Jerry goldsmith's theme for Star Trek the motion picture and then the theme music for deep space nine is music that's very similar to the music for the next generation and then the theme music for Voyager which puts me on the verge of tears I'm sorry they can much the same thing it was all just but it was done with much longer sustains knows you got a long way to go before you have yeah so that was that was all very similar it was big as orchestral and no one was singing and then with enterprise what happened was an existing piece of music which was called faces the hot written by Diane Warren and performed by which to it and perform for the soundtrack to the nineteen ninety eight film patch Adams %HESITATION yeah and then it was re written Russell Watson reworks it as when my heart will take me as the C. music for enterprise it was re recorded I think for season four so the slightly different version slightly more upbeat music when it snowed for seasons three because she remembered come we come up to same chain anymore because this is so I do yeah and so in Congress and to what we're seeing in every after every episode was so traumatic and for the violence in the school and said you know this music so upbeat and hopeful I just noticed it was re recorded for the third and fourth seasons it probably would have been appropriate soul and she with lyrics I come not with lyrics it was a strange decision and and maybe that had something to do with people not necessarily take an enterprise that seriously and then with it just being called enterprise initially people didn't associate at property was star track so it didn't really take with the track audience is already established some with the word faith in the title given the attitude towards faith established by virtually all of the Star Trek so far didn't fit so yeah Tenerife sure exactly I think it's unfortunate a lot of by enterprise is unfortunate it didn't serve what it Kate has pain and what parts of it where I needed to know being a doctor there's just so much is greeted by an enterprise and it was pretty certify some rainy practice sessions a look look at what was great about enterprise getting Scott back in a tie the captain yeah wonderful knowing what tends to happen to people when they play in science fiction that was probably his way of going right I am going to get myself associated with the new character because some back it yeah really yeah it took me a while one of stress or enterprise at the time it was broadcast to shed the %HESITATION that somebody gets them from going to and he had he changed definitely changed it's taking a lot of opportunities to get his top off and to definitely do I think that some back it never done which was really quite stridently issue orders to people to be a part of solitario zinc they just have that one where dean Stockwell listen so late we had ready not long what style and then a couple of months later dean Stockwell passed away but it was nice to see not and having them back together again the being at first race this time but I think that was probably one of the things that mess served enterprises that has created a sculpture killer is on the character of archer there's too much emphasis on him he had to be the hero every time it's not something that I love to school very but there is too much of everything relies on Michael Burnham by the time we go to the lost users voyage we December sister Kimberly off well with this is that a %HESITATION yeah all of this is a parasite yeah this is a nine so that's it %HESITATION but to focus so it's every every now and then you get to see that doctor so yeah yeah something like that could decide okay right we're with this character as in person so get stressed I'm not going through next generation often it was a pecan decided because it was in an episode about what the crew has headed by him how to do and coming up against a particular adversarial problem and he would be the main one to solve it but very soon you start to get Joe decides where it would follow Jody across the day and he'd be the one you have to solve the problem any great lines are by data very often you directed by one of Sam by Jonathan Franks or the far pardon for Patrick shared unless miles's partner up right now as an opportunity for artists to get into directing Star Trek has been great to sing how much of of season three of Star Trek discovery Jonathan Frakes star he's I know he's still going to separate levar Burton said loads of all the others as well thanks for using the law invoice or an enterprise's enterprise a lot of enterprises directed by roping me Neil he was Tom Paris and Voyager and he went through the academy the directing academy and I loved the delta flyers it's a fantastic podcast is to re watch that Robert Duncan McNeill and Garrett long he'd played Tom Paris and Harry Kane and Voyager if they make this together to re watch series so they talk about each individual episode every time Andrabi McNeil because he sensed become a director rather than an actor it's really interesting for him because he watches the absence more acid director he can barely remember the acting side of it for himself because he spent so much of that time observing the directors and learning about the production he spent more energy on top and pretty but you know he still turns up and he doesn't acting really well yes that's been a really interesting thing and the same thing happens with rocks on Dawson who has been on a tour is not Shushi S. night more well known as a director and she spends the director and producer and executive producer %HESITATION loads of other shows nice and sent on films as well principal of character gets an episode and it might be even a relatively minor character I mean I think the box yet so it says we are missing back now that we've gotten to discovery because almost all about Michael Burnham and that is the thing is well actually you do have those recurring car actors so %HESITATION the likes of this kind of Barkley I tried Schultz he's very well known as hiding Matt Murdock and eighteen you or like civilians we mention already Jeffrey combs playing lots of different characters fun Armstrong place up to different characters across as the series character Andrea Robinson and Deep Space Nine you've got these really important recurring character she are not me in Castro hopes all voice okay when you have that was come up somebody else's mouth a massive card whose Montauk some such a thing as tasty voice %HESITATION and he is that he plays Chiron he's bright and as a sea ice west ham on around you I enjoy yeah always double in size yeah a tendency to come straight on minor corrections is a thing and that has has has grown to discoveries are we get lots of you know this particular mine account to get the scene at this point but there's no such thing in discovery as an equivalent offer Joe decided or they decide probably because I S. more serialized rather than episodic so the ideas in the earlier ones that you're going along nicely there on their missions bloody bloody battle thing happens and it centers on this one character so you're driving into that character a bit more but I suspect that came up by it because of what happened with Denise Crosby because she left before the end of season one of TNG because she just wasn't getting anything today so she's playing Tasha Yar who was said chief security officer on the enterprise and you know the actress was really frustrated at just having these perfunctory nines and something very similar it happened with the sound echoes in the original series but she claims in her autobiography that Martin Luther king convinced her to stay because just her being on TV and every episode at some point even if all she said was healing frequencies of what she called really fed up with thank you for it and she's a brilliant actress and she's got such precedents but she's getting so little state so are you know for the whole I mean the whole of the first season that's basically all she says is healing frequencies opens our message coming in from Starfleet command center yeah and that's really boring for her and she's just a set of flags you know but because she said of prime lanxess baby important because representation really does matter we were talking the other day if I may Jamison is that he was the astronaut he was inspired to become an astron joined NASA because the finish on the hills and you know so that is groundbreaking and not sense cameos and transporter for so she's sort of TNG and they met on the set and everything it was really special but you know with Denise Crosby as Tasha Yar she's got so much to get F. and she got really fired up and you think by the late eighties even a white woman would have something more to date but no I mean and and it was annoying because it was great if they had a woman I really kick ass woman being the security officer you go to do that for you in about the third episode yeah in the rather racially problematic like I said that's fine with the princess in which someone have to die then they would very quickly be not present to enterprise make them not to be that yeah yeah most of that fight was done by some from this server Dennis because we wouldn't have been much involved in it but she did get to do that scene with data she did get to say to him you are fully functional on she so are any they really sexualized her and it was because of that saying you know this virus that made them a little bit drunk so drunk that she didn't have the composure to pass quickly do you have a hat with a disco maybe there's a future technology that just does that for you I don't know so her frustration meant that she wanted out of her contract so they killed her off and never quite merciless about that so rather than just that %HESITATION transferring give her the option of coming back the kilter Beverly crusher gates McFadden who actually also works under another name isn't she but yeah but she's being a choreographer she uses one of her other names I can't remember this is shameful she did just transfer off the enterprise well the staff from because I think that I think that show runners of the writers or something just wanted to do something different so it wasn't her choice I don't think and then they brought in another doctor Pulaski said she's brilliant but then I think because fans petition to get property crusher back because there is a saying there is a bit of a thing between her and the cards so I think the fans really want to dock so Pulaski just isn't there for the third season of Beverly crusher comes back and that's it yet despite last year it Cheryl gates McFadden okay sorry sorry I suppose now we here we ought to talk about season two of the next generation cast well let's at least just mention that right because in the next generation as we have both learned from reading interviews with Patrick Stewart song it was not a total clear during those first two series that this would think would run for seven I'm saying services on site for seven seasons and there's even a vet I noticed what looked like an outtake that hadn't been caught in one of the episodes in the early in the first season of TNG when I caught is walking into the tub after that shit show of him from the side and when the temple if doors open he opens his mouth as if he's going on and I don't think he is tired not it could be because they always cut the sound out when they put this on the table if those on he's doing a big open mouth face as if he's doing that kind of joke thanks to the person who's on the other side of the table afterwards that we cannot say and you think that's just and then posting around on set that's going to be not take the name of that made it into the finished episode there was a kind of informality about that works during the first couple of seasons and it was because they were expecting to have any moment but that's it it's all over this this farce of trying to resurrect starstruck in TV film my server and it very nearly walls because of how %HESITATION season to end it because season two ended with them running out of money and having to do what was in effect a clip show for the last episode of season two on Friday here and us yes season two it was the one episode of TNG that was what seasons are older ten G. that has just twenty two episodes so as for a potential I just run out of money and for the very last episode all I could afford was doctor Pulaski couple of other characters something including Troy marina Sirtis about dialogue with them with Reika lying on a table I'm original scene which rocky gets infected with something and that set the rest was clips Compton from previous episodes which is supposed to be ham remembering things having this internal battle it was awful it is the worst episode of Star Trek Africa I think even Franks calls it a piece of shit yeah I'm quoting him not selected for him who knows whether they knew at that point whether they had been renewed for a third season but that's the operation of people who don't care whether they can review yeah I'm not B. axes it's the position on this and making this decision but guess rate for third season and from that point on which just goes from strength to strength and becomes yeah I mean that by the end of season three and then not see instructions to both work at scrapping you know I think that was probably the same age where I was investors okay cool earlier we were talking about want certain things in Star Trek correspond to in the real world now of course we didn't mention the book but kind of coming of this species of animals as the book him on to species no it's pretty damn close to the surface that the Borg are communists because they have a collective consciousness collectivist that's hardly insightful for us to point out but it's important to note whether that just a new version of Russians because these are their invented towards the end of the nineteen nineties sorry seven eighty I idea in on right now it's kind of eighteen nine ninety point we're talking soaring of the Cold War we're talking that point where there's a classic line in ten minutes to where young John Connor goes why tech Russia aren't they are friends now there are there are friends nothing I don't think the book is supposed to be Russians I think they're supposed to be home grown communists are supposed to be socialists amongst the American population and that's why they're so dangerous because they are on their way to work with them not stopping at conventional boundaries than on recognizing the boundaries of the federation but of course much more interesting to me the dominion we didn't mention the dominion the dominion have a three tier hierarchy with the founders or change things at the top who are regarded as gods by the bottom starts in the middle starts in which is the fourth to her clones genetically engineered by the founders in order to access this middle stratum after hierarchy and and the soldiers on the jem'hadar and there again genetically designed from scratch and designed in order to be biologically dependent on the substance called white which means that if they somehow get free of civil servant changelings don't just come out and die within a couple we have run out of light and they seem to be coded as African slaves I thank yes the hierarchy of Lewis and intermediate class that they used to they never have to have anything to do with the people who buy real well and then the people have a real that was the principal of the British Empire it was using Indian this obvious people from South Asia as administrative costs in African colonies during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries we've already mentioned before that the Cardassians especially corresponds to the English with a British the British imperialists but the dominion they do almost exactly the same thing host often flavors of British imperialism because they're the ones who went last and then the ones who went east and I think the ones he went last immediately to Ireland's are what we're thinking about it was Cardassia and Bajor but also then for their faith to the Americas and then I suppose it's just general European colonization of the Americas is stuff that's happening there today there's a lot more native American type stuff then mostly in Voyager today definitely this is a menu in there so %HESITATION sorry bank allegory of those things but some some interesting just how easy the contestants team up with the dominion yeah after the dominion start invading the alpha quadrant yeah because their flavors of the Sam saying there but even the Cardassians come across her because it's all the dominion is just so Collison crow and the Cardassians state become subjects of the dominion and they have to have their own revolution terror free Cardassia for main cabin page or to help them H. or help some so it's a little bit like the English deciding that even though you don't want to be part of the empire anymore it's basically going everyone needs to have found that the nation and I've once a nation and will only function if it's founded on revolution yeah which of course is how America thinks about nationhood yeah to be founded on revolution the federation planets in the middle you know you've got ours he's become these have babies where led to believe and I actually liked I appreciate the way enterprise deals to stop because when they go back to earth people and ours are still our souls and it's the one CD first Hey go on exploring their the vegetarian SpaceX base but the ones he stay honors they're gone what are you going off poker night there and bring in a list evil stuff back to us they're very xenophobic you know and they attack Helion species that are hanging out with the federation you know the Starfleet once federations in question but the Starfleet ones so that you know being a doctor phlox and both in the Senate you know the falcons lays in a complaint and suppose quite curious to be human so she'll put on you know I had scar for something to hide her ears you know and trying their hair so that'll cover I. Bryce Bennett and she'll go off to jazz clubs and things and be a bat yes you know testing the waters and then of course falls in love with the humans so let me get a precedent for %HESITATION Spock's very existence because we get a human Vulcan hybrids there was a point when Tucker and t'pol they learned that they had a daughter but it was a genetic clone you know they've both had tissue samples taken against their will and it's been climbed in and used by these are terrorists to create this thing which is supposed to symbolize the pollution of the human gene pool by foreign DNA but the script writers for that episode they point out that it's not just on lightly it's basically impossible for us for a species from this planet and species from another planet her not to told a late cousin spaces too it's completely impossible from to reproduce together and said this baby this is produced from to pop and chips cells doesn't survive no it's not no they they flock senator demonstrates that actually it was a combination of cloning process that meant that the baby doesn't survive and that actually it is perfectly possible and sure they're stato their timeline when they have a son they have a son not journey together you know you member when they're stuck in the expansive Delphic expanse and the third season of trying to find this and date products they recommend us other enterprise but it's over a hundred years old and it's captained by their son and it's kind of retro fitted the sentence also yes still alive yes okay very old woman I think all of them are you know when the storm is ever recognized that it would be impossible for species from two different planet to reproduce %HESITATION so they set the precedent then because it's one of those work there these hard roads to go three where that's another Greek and for mixed race relationships that have had a very hard roads to become acceptance in society all over the world so like civil Vulcan and human having a relationship to Poland's check Tucker have a very difficult time they have a very traumatic romance really fucked up if so way four Sirach and Amanda T. later be able to marry and have a son he is Spock I think enterprise is very important J. helped us see a lot of the establishment because in the same things you take for granted but they're very hard roads to go sorry before somebody can have the privileges that paves the way for and just to credit currently the we are the vegetarian space that's right that is from you tube video by Alistair Beckett king which is a letter S. the little detail about how business listing is often space I know but Star Trek tends to tends to mean that everyone's said agree that not that direction or the media accounts is up in space if you're enjoying the show and would like more information straight to your inbox head over to audio visual culture stock com linked in the show notes and sign up to our mailing list I think it's time to break the captains that's it right the huge today and that's because there's a big question in Star Trek circles which is kinda cool pecan now and also to that particular question the answer is obviously Picard think fast cars Fisher is designed for anyone with the head screwed on the tool it's become because Kirk although there's times when he goes well I'm in charge shut up most of the time he's just kind of louche and laid back he's not in control of situations and moments when you should be doing something to make a difference he doesn't he's not a very good captain until Picard his diplomat he's a manager he's in control of that ship and makes decisions including when he's run out of ideas going suggestions and someone comes up with suggestions because what we're gonna do that and there's always time for a Cup of hot gray writes monopoles yes hot drinks DS nine and Voyager everyone's got a hot drink at some point and I think that's probably because it's a stop motion enterprise are old drunk half the time they have to have something in the hand that isn't to be drinking alcohol yeah because they haven't got since the whole yet I'll go holder drinking here to escape its on Dorian E. L. X. wine they're just constantly let sin I'm going back to the bridge crisis and I think that's maybe they've done not to go well wonder why they all just started drinking hot drinks your coffee and tea all the time probably so yeah because it contains sole responsibility for the hot drink principal right set to come up and cut we just understaffed right but we have all the captains to access into this thing said Saturday %HESITATION just share with you my list of captains okay the card is the best second place in the backseat not my favorite that's what I'm saying is there's a distinction there just the front that Picard worked out that in the very early episode that he was being communicated with but with people whose language didn't have five star concepts just differently figured out put some way of of Cuttack white that patient and he doesn't like children right that's stuck with children and he survived so that alone yes the man is a hero on the observer he became a child exams to be jealous second placed English French on their he wants I took one French words and I missed it the rest of the same matters all the time I don't think he smashed RK tunes different which means feels that way they can get away with wearing them since I lost highly saline drops the F. bomb and she stopped saying that night stranded and then just trying to be a grown up second place foreigners January I don't agree with that I think Jian Wei it's the void you create a lot more danger than is necessary there was a lot of let's just go poke at that reward as we end up not being Sir knight really there's a death and destruction in everyone pokes at the net so that's that's a baseline she's very good at making decisions go head to head with people she will take advice she has what I and my friends at university used to convertible sex oral sex with verbal sex with check I was I know they are the people who can actually get together because she's she's captain they should have been together by the end of the thing they did was seven and Chakotay was just not okay let's go with wrote that because of the whole your captain you can't have a relationship with and that is that's established quite early and purpose of the holodeck our system is currently in TNG where the card does have a relationship with one of his crew members yeah and then goes yeah and his conclusion about why it's it shouldn't happen is that he has the ability to order her to have that and that would really hurt him if he was ordering his apartment to his death where is my Jamie's time what they've accomplished is you will not have a relationship with any %HESITATION crew members because if the power relationship involved it would be a good place at peace house to do right now of course what the docks to he talks with her about this does is he goes what do stuff on the holiday and the holiday is an implicit reference to masturbation the holodeck says it's okay to masturbate and this is the way that Star Trek just very quietly addresses something that everyone's thinking but that no one can publish the size affairs such yeah yeah Jameis doesn't she definitely pokes and stuff but she does have some under B. B. says Paris up tighter so if you get time to do some of the venue can be cash are going if you're a good balls %HESITATION right so generous and puffy clouds underpaid base so the other four captains of them over I'm sure that has been on the other four captains all of which we are aware %HESITATION Cisco comes the captain yeah sources a comma comes captain archer yeah pike love hate I have a soft spot for patrons is not just the part of the pilots I'm one of the latest series one of the centers for the reasons there is this is the mind thing is fantastic this is the part of season two of discovery discovery and then we'll continue and strange you are else which we are sorry to yeah by Rebecca Roman he is reprising the role originated by the queen of star track Majel Barrett's this this is basically visions of future divisions alternative Kerr starch in alternative nineteen sixties in which the Star Trek that was made was the Star Trek as part of a pilot called the cage where because what happened the reality was that the first particle the cage with pike as the captains and female number one he's never named that wasn't approved but Jean Marie was told to go and make another part that we're interested in the ideas but what you just made was way too sedate no they said it was two separate pearl yeah okay to answer read Earl so it makes no this great you know that you can see in the inset televisions as not have these massive pulsing cranium is I saw a lot of fact was great for the nineteen sixties was hurt it's in the mid sixty thousand I thought I was class the N. B. season are getting to make another point at and that one is picks up and that's the policy which Shatner's Kirk I'm the only candidate can is and even book gets retooled his eyebrows get tied it often becomes less emotional yeah and isn't shy XM sixteen S. explained that it was that Jeffrey hunter was tight and he was playing a very dead pond you know very street sorry %HESITATION yeah right talked in a very serious and so then %HESITATION he might all one has to be up on what has to be nine so he's very expressive songs a lot so we have millions he laughs he takes joy in things that they find singing farce and it makes him laugh and the woman there's everyone has to watch it for that scene but by the time we interceptors cast and turns the other way he's very expressive and dynamic in JKT so then your name mine comes the serious straight man then later in season one orders are unused footage for that part of it hi can number one get the cage all of that is re used as part of an episode in which pike is brought back but it's a different actor and he's seriously injured and Connie can speak on his returns to the planets of titles for and so it pike isn't knowledge to have existed and so because of our what can then happen is that in discovery we can have interactions between which of course is a set about ten years before the original series we can have interactions between the corps of discovery and the crew of the enterprise I was commanded by pike and from season two point becomes acting captain of discovery and we meet number one as well his name is which is right which is a female one and spontaneous at the end of season two when discovery is flown to the future we got a little after log in which we see the setup where lots of disruptions to what happens to the enterprise those were resolved and everyone's back on it thanks for coming out and spoke back on it and he's been restored this instruction is that because they were using holographic communications %HESITATION pay claims sought for all the systems failures on the enterprise and that's why we end up with a few screens because he orders and all the rest that's why even though we've gone totally spicy with the first awfully of discovery that's why when we get to enterprise we get to sorry I'm division series that's why the tactics request so but that but I setting up for the adventures of the enterprise as commanded by col right in the decade or so up to you when you get when you cook takes over as captain and of course if the cage had been picked up as the the actual first episode of Star Trek Shatner would not be would never been Kirk would never never been in Star Trek prison and we would have a very different sort of Star Trek and now that's being imagined in strange new worlds and someone seems to come in writing for discovery gone we got a whole bit of story that no one ever told which was the adventures of the pike commanded enterprise other than the cage so yeah we're all very excited about this particularly the working within the box of limitations which is what I've always uniforms have to look like this but we can change a few things they've kept the colors but they often lack of things this is how I rate the captain's altogether sep best captain Picard second best J. NY Brian knows third best Cisco I do not think that Cisco isn't quite as good a captain as Jane Wright is that Cisco has a slightly greater tendency just to go completely bonkers I think he gets processed in one episode and spends internet such as making a clock I think Jane whenever anyone gets possessed by something well they're still killing killing time is whether taken over by the her %HESITATION Jen and I have this dance programs they get programmed into the hollow programs your he further rather than things I can't sleep at night so I read all this stuff are you read the second lesson to the delta flyers and they've just done those episodes when they just accept that double episode with her religion so it's all fresh for me %HESITATION I'm reliving it all again during my has to deal with a slightly more difficult situation than Cisco which is that she has to ask can we even continue to apply star fleet and suppose he comes face pirates Cisco he has to do with complex geopolitics but the federation is still next door right so off to Cisco Seru I think that zero is a basic captain pike that's the thing yeah it seems to be somewhat cavalier he has maintained to this point has this really annoying tendency to go on away missions let's be clear what happens when the captain goes on away missions the captain gets captured right so the captain should never go on an away mission first off a second later admissions that's fine probably best if you don't have the first office ago anyway reasons I haven't changed because it's been slightly different this it should be shift whose job it is to fight people yeah there were several occasions in TNG where an away mission goes out and gets captured and Reuter has to go off and find the card and so he's left commanding the enterprise for its data as third officer spike's tactical emissions so route the onetime Seru goes and why mission is because he goes we're going to talk to I can help you and he's probably terrified it's probably a child I needed help and he says a friendly face he has a big justification for going on the away mission he leaves one I discovered crash lands when it first arrives in the thirties factor thirty three sections he leaves when the ship Congo anyway goes to go make first contact but that's just my perspective the ship's crash landed on the planet it's not like it could go anywhere yes Sir %HESITATION sometimes there's a ship but mostly when he's captaining at least remains on the ship and tells other people to go do stuff where spike is always going on away missions very first away mission he leads is one where he comes within it and not swing of being killed to go let's give the crew on the Hiawatha well yes and people just in their own these things to manage it %HESITATION dangerous difficult situation when he comes this close to being killed and he just about get saved by a combination of burn them and the two albums people on discovery %HESITATION working together and it's it's later revealed that he's actually he's doing what a captain sure knows he shouldn't do which is putting his himself in harm's way because he feels like being excluded from the cling on federation war he wasn't given the opportunity to prove himself so he keeps trying to prove himself that's a flow yes that's right all right so off the pike sure what should does make some quite stupid decisions he doesn't listen to people it does not listen to this fall she says second officer she's initially there as a she's not part of Starfleet or anything but she's R. as an adviser and she effectively becomes a science officer and is creating that first officer of the whole ship and they make that more official she resigned her commission at the Vulcan high command is that the %HESITATION on because she wants to stay with them and help them with their is that when they go off for this indie stuff yeah and %HESITATION she becomes more of a civilian but she is effectively an honorary member of the crate and Starfleet so she is effectively the number one but he never listens to her and she's much more experience she spent time in deep space before on both and chefs she center six days she's got loads more experience than any of them on the shelf and he does not listen to her ever onto also has this annoying tendency to go on away missions because yesterday every time so his life is put in danger unnecessarily crunch time constantly and then of course Kirk for his many faults which on other just into the fact that these convolution waiting times about everything yes yeah it includes the fact that he smokes everyone is very much in favor of this well there's a female crew member there Jim I have a right to call at least ten or whatever but %HESITATION means you to hook up I'm fine with losing her as a crew member as if that many if not well let's say it's %HESITATION Scott he likes her I'm gonna listen officer well one of the things that makes coca crop as a captain is that he is all of the nineteen sixties so yeah perhaps we can forgive media where it is that we can ask for is it just for it was %HESITATION but none the less as the captain of the thing which is supposed to do stuff office mostly military vessel he will just walk into trucks he's much too passive as a diplomat he's awful he's sometimes go to technology stuff that was that impossible to transmit the Romulans which was almost certainly an allusion to one of the second World War I submarine films where it's a destroyer against Severino think it's the enemy below this question is kind of a case is doing awesome okay so do this very particular thing as the captain of this thing which is nice for K. military frigates or battleship okay but you know as a politician is diplomat as someone who have you just need to reason with our people basically %HESITATION for sept the card Janeway Cisco Seru pike archer thank comments from your listeners might well persuade you thought on completely wrong says because my fear for it I think I think he has to deal with very different things from the others because he's not traveling Arango in Polk and he's on this space station with the very tricky diplomatic mission he's in the middle of a very precarious peace that could disrupt at any moment I think of him as somebody he is doing a tremendous amount of managing people he's also a single parent his wife has been lost apple three five nine the board at top which we hear about it and the best of both worlds the episode she mentioned her the card becomes a key shifts off the board he has a very strained relationship with Starfleet because of thoughts you know it's interesting even Patrick shared this and the pilot of the S. nine and hands over basically it's it's hard to have stepped to the handover with Cisco and give him not commission of becoming the commander of the space nine and that's very difficult you know so from the very get go he's already got this strand relationship of Starfleet and he sees it for what it is he C. sepulchre space of this organization that he loves and wants to take a while for so I think the complexity succumb a Cisco and what we end up finding items by his own origins or his his mom was a whim how alien I'm not the one already and it sounds about it's sounds rather tentatively yeah but now it is a known for dimensional not sure beings who live in the worm hole that can't see only stable wormhole that I find on it thanks they also question with the camera quadrant and dots hi the dominion get access because they're from the gamma quadrant outside they get access to the alpha quadrant and these are called the profits by the Turin's they think these are their guards so there's a whole religion based arrived these aliens but it all turned site that his destiny is caught up with these aliens because he's actually off them you know he's actually a high bridge they went to markets do something like go back in time and phone over him so that he would be around a specific point to save them from these enemy wormhole aliens called power right yeah that account of these fallen angel figures I don't think that Cisco in becoming the the emissary of the prophets from from the very first to process I don't think I'm becoming not figured that he becomes religious not park but he does very light on that in the seven series he starts to experience these moments of artists certainty that X. and Y. gonna happen and they they don't come from and messages from the web how late is he basically just becomes this person of religious conviction and I was deemed by the series of that point to be a good thing setting of that stuff aside because I think about stuff I'm not so so well done but others are not I think he praised himself as a captain your honor as a commander you know because he's a commander for the first two or three seasons or something that's a promotion I think in season four maybe I'm not sure all right the right the halfway point he gets discretion to captain I think he shows real leadership and a lot of ways and he is a leader he is prepared to learn I'm prepared to listen to his staff he always has good advice for people he's very centered you know when that when that profit stuff isn't happening he's Larry centers I think unless the first you know I might reconsider putting Jiang Wei but I have a sister because both J. Moran Cisco who they have to create crews out of two distinct groups the card is not to do that so he doesn't have to do that hi this is enough to do that he's gone they've all got started each group throws Jan was got a Starfleet crew plus a bunch of marquee how many it's about twenty five there and that we don't meet them already it's just their designated by the different paths when they take on the Starfleet uniforms I think they do that to your yeah I think they should have been a couple of episodes of conflicts but then because it's episodic they just want them in the uniforms as soon as possible and I we have a denture just our fate to participate but if it was more of a serialized saying I think they may hold off and they would explore that complex I'm not difficulty with dissemination a bit more nine they did a few later episodes where they did it time travel stuff back to whenever conflicts as if they had gone and how we we skipped over back to great right so yeah J. why does have to soldier together goes to cruise but what she does very quickly she wins over to kind of tie and then he does that work of soldiering them together to vote because it takes a certain general doesn't do much at work so there's a bit of a challenge that but with Cisco he has to so that together federation Starfleet underpaid Jordan creek including major Karen Rees who initially he's quite willing to kick since because the Stacia she does not want the Starfleet to be back home until she wants this to now be able to complete the project on stage yeah he is a huge amount of work to do to get house but also I mean I would say that %HESITATION pike does how fortunate again trust because he's taken over from Gabriel Lorca hello to Jason Isaacs we find that answer %HESITATION you could not yes he's been the captain of discovery for the first season but we find out that he's actually from the mirror universe and something pulls him over to the prime universe supposed prime Lorca over to the mirror universe he was probably killed immediately because he was being sought out for execution because he was treasonous so pike as happened to pick up a crazy thought as for the distrust and he basically prepare sock crazy to become the co he said if they come and they become a family and Siri need Sam and then waste last discovery at a point where Michael has been promoted to captain and she spoke to the them as captain so we can't judge Burnham yet as a captain thanks we've been on the list because she's captain we can't speak to that yet I'm because it's quite unique because there are only a few episodes and as we record this and we haven't seen any of those she's come under the discovery for a base of one episode when she was first officer in pike was off doing yeah but yeah but we've only ever seen her disobeying orders Browning often can't April causing a war one of those things where she just disobeys an order and goes off and does our admission lead story with us first officer for that going rogue logic is I'm gonna ask for forgiveness and not for permission yeah no within a known military organizations that's the kind of sometimes applicable principle but I don't think that really works within the thing that is Starfleet which is now part of the lecture part science yeah because I think there are ways to show %HESITATION that click I'm sure I'm right about this again trusts but there is a bit of a higher because I think this comes up in Voyager quite a bit where they have to say that this is not a democracy I'm the top ten I make decisions to Sashi quite imperialistic in a way where it's not pay to committee I mean they they have these committee meetings with officers but I feel like certain in Voyager there's only a certain amount of crazy and that number dwindles quite a bit because people die and they don't get replaced very often they set off with a hundred and seventy or some sun hello to them die then they absorb that Mickey curry and then people die and they absorb a few people here and there look at something like four crew members from the of the ship yeah that's got sucked into the delta quadrant a little bit off to them hello there for last mile before because they've already traveled quite a bit and I think it's already been in there for ten years or some sun but it's rare that they get more people off the shores of so they actually today's quite a lot of people as time goes on and so there should be a hundred and something else %HESITATION and you think surely they have some sort of system where they can have a vote they could have a forum and voice opinions because you know all these big decisions cake at manta there's not one where they find that planet thirty sevens where a bunch of people from nineteen thirty seven got pulled in by their caretakers are right because I don't think we've given that she's Voyager sets off after the maquis ship into the pipelines and the bad times but like the Bermuda triangle SPS they get pulled across the galaxy something like seventy thousand light years away from anywhere and it means that I'll take them at least seventy years to get back at the highest work they can day which obviously isn't sustainable either and so they have this prospect of becoming a yeah generational checked that they're trying to get home and they're going to go looking for a worm holes and other ways other technologies because they might find civilizations even more advanced in them and stuff like that they come across this planet with their human inhabitants and it turns out these people within that this caretaker has been pulling stuff for many many years she many centuries through once again it wasn't a caretaker who got thirty seconds I think they were abducted and taken on a flying saucer and taken by actually where %HESITATION Elaine up six days I can't remember it from the first C. as no I think it's the state's second season opener but it was me and to be part of the first season it was one of those consider season was cut short so the raptors who's ever actually produced for that season but they were paid and the second season yeah that was one of them the thirty sevens so they have Amelia Earhart that's how I may suggest that her disappearance was that she was kicked off on this on the planet and so some of them have been cryogenically frozen so she's one of these papers cryogenically frozen so she spend and preservation %HESITATION Simon they wake her up and she's she's a life again and there's this whole civilization of humans descended from these people from nineteen thirty seven and there's this option for the crazy if anybody wants to just settle somewhere because there's a human civilization they can do that and none of them volunteered to do that none of them volunteered to say they'll go off back on the Voyager this is seen in the episode where January says whoever wants to stay on this planet report to the Chicago by two at this particular time is a walking talking with her jacuzzi going down there to see who's turned up and she opens the door and there's no one that when I saw that I just thought it would be the funniest thing to have one person say poked her head out from between two piles of big dangerous boxes or something I just got out yes captain what can I do for you I was just doing a stock take what you doing in cargo bay two okay that might not see nothing is quite important because she says to the crew I'm giving you a choice yeah they make a choice and that's about it for the crew making choices that I have and I never got a option ever again so anything they like to settle here because there's ones where Harry has terrible lock way slough in this series and he never gets promoted and he's never done a proven himself and he's always just an ensign for seven years that we follow it's not all over the price never done see if in the mall and the hassle is terrible luck with relationships but there is one where he and another really and they really property fall enough and they have a really lovely fun relationship that you know her culture really ally her permit her minutes terribly heartbreaking in its first because her species they really combine with each other and it's an even deeper heart break when they're pulled apart from each other and it just feels like he should have already had the option to the stay with her mixtape up early episode with the thirty seven I think it's quite symbolic for the whole of their series that is Voyager because in a situation where it might seem reasonable to give people a choice sometimes they go through the motions of giving everyone a choice not to make a choice yeah that's one of the fundamental elements of democracy is that you say drive one every four years or so he said right now we giving you the choice for the duration of the holding the next parliamentary terms or whatever we're giving you the choice to not to make a choice so as long as you have that choice making ritual once every four years you don't agree that you're not going to be the one who makes any of the choices during the next four years and that seems to be what they do in the thirty sevens in absolute gorgeous %HESITATION and it's called the thirty seconds yeah well it's just a matter of going we're gonna acknowledge that our situation is somewhat dictatorial but it's fine because it's underpinned by the choice by the election what's not to make any choices and that is actually quite common to all of the Star Trek series they're they're going right we're really big of democracy but this particular organization isn't one this organization Starfleet that works for the big democratic organization that is federation it isn't one and it's dictatorial and that has to be falling with everyone because this is how we keep the federation tax and so it's constantly a common tree on what one has to do to hold democracy which is have these organizations at the barricades the non democratic organizations protecting civilians so inevitably as you're playing out that internal negotiation of how reasonable that situation is you're going to have situations where I left tenant comes into conflict with the commander about the commander's decision or will the entire crew comes into contact with the captain about captions decision was very early episode where of TNG where the card is kidnapped and is replaced with this close the clone gets the crew to just fly closer and closer closer to a star such that the radiation schedule appointments going to kill everyone and the question is that the plan was to find out is the idea must find out as we say no to captain is doing the wrong thing really I need any other situation the office is not the case the card can be trusted even when it definitely appears I would like to be doing the wrong thing he can be trusted to actually do the right thing but on that particular occasion no they do meet me in and that's a that's a resistance to it takes a toll authority when it doesn't have that trust factor shot one where writer has heightened or didn't meet new S. this is Carissa Pegasus for it with his previous captain any regrets it and he regretted it because they were right on the captain's wrong isn't it that they don't need me but they just refuse to follow any orders thank you so it's I think they disagree so fundamentally you as well he's ordering them to J. captains to commercial Crofton or some things were going to have to go by now I thought well it's not one where they are that also last episode of enterprise someone they intersect that with they have it so that it's Graham principal recordings that right because Watson on his way to go investigate and he knows what happened to it Choi is trying to help conceal him three this decision to tell Picard you know he's watching this holo program of the last days of the original enterprise as sort of inspiration and it's quite more of it actually that's really weird and they make it into a game which I think in a way it opens it up to be totally wrapped cons because I thought the whole program that's two hundred years that are fine you can crack on that the actors of all ages of course but they could do voice stuff they can see animation or bodies series I mean that would be so great for them to do the last three seasons and audio format or animated format would be for aliens that was something which way your my appetites have been thoroughly west yeah for the culminating founding of the federation yeah that would be home in the enterprise and they kept doing cool forwards to it by having a horse's name at the time travel from where he would come back and say torture right someone's messing with the timeline yeah I need you to fix these things there is this temporal Cold War going on and people keep changing it so that the federation doesn't get found it it's becoming very clear that your radiance to mental case he has to find %HESITATION really upset because it becomes clear as Archie does his thing that he he stops them Dorian's and the falcons fighting so all this and smoothing over relations that way friends he stopped them Dorians in the tower right fighting this is breathing are licensed so with this is the incremental moving towards I have found the federation the gonna do this and then towards the end of season four there's the beginning of these negotiations to sign this treaty which might be one of the first proton documents of the federation is not the federation yet and then running to the end of season four arches that drags forwards in time one more time by this time traveling together you've basically done everything you're going to do guessing the federation to happen this is going to happen in three years look it's you it's a big ceremony founding the federation well done I'm you and I felt sorry wrong a story arc leading up to the front because they're supposed to be there or more by several millions of solace in there before then as in there there's a big war that's meant to happen and that's partly high they'll come together you make me wish I wasn't so I could look at this stuff yeah I haven't I think that's something to do that because in TNG the first time the Romulans around that nobody's seen the Romulans four hundred years none there stop appearance I have an original series and there is a brush with them and I'm surprised but they're never seen because it's already one night and they have to deal with one of their minds the cats after not something that takes into REITs lag and also remotely piloted ship yeah the number of positions there's just a %HESITATION brushing with them so they are there but they're very insular but I think they're supposed to be some sort of fake war that happens and then the federation as party find it I'd have thought coalition come to gather a solid ice defends themselves and then the federation is built on those for planets that come together some something like that I was supposed to all happen that was supposed to play ball what happened in the last three seasons but they never called to get me as we know it sh since you wanna have gone right TNG DS nine version number and then we've got %HESITATION we've got a couple can finally bite the bullet watch division series for about the first day to nine episodes of the original series it's not Star Trek yeah does it recognize it even though it's it's had its second pilot she's got shocked and ran it it's become rebooted just this thing in which they all kind of that recognizable for the first few episodes the uniforms on the right color they keep calling them weapons lasers rather than phases the thing they work for isn't cold Starfleet I think at one point is called the United earth space probation C. as a callback to that much later on I think and start the machine pictures come back to that no no this voice homes things and listen to it okay kind of like in the corner for short will play the thing that they represent isn't called the federation early on it's called you the United earth so there is some sense that there's no such thing as nations left under federation hasn't come about yet it really takes until about the beginning of season two of the business services for Star Trek as we would recognize the thing that's constantly being paid hommage to buy T. I. G. all the way up to discovery for that to come about for the whole we are the federation would not going to sacrifice a federation principles that just doesn't exist from almost the whole of the first season of the original series and United are says reject very frying UP and enterprise this is really something that's happened in the in the last few years for them some sun that is quite integral to the enterprise is what's established in the film first contact sat from Cochran developing work capability yeah first contact its name checked again and again and again and again in enterprise yes this fundamental event including in the mirror universe as its that's it establishes the whole of the Merion ever since we've seen those in Merion of our stuff up until that point but it what happens in enterprise and it isn't a case of they get flung over shared or anything it just shows us that seem crazy in the mirror universe and the credits change they go dark the same chains removed which was a blessing but it goes by and it uses footage from the film and three does it entice them as saffron Cochran rather than shaking hands with civil can say come to visit he M. toxin and they over on their second stellar technology and so then it just goes three for this alternate history and obviously changing point so all of human history until then it's basically the same but they lean into that war side of them and this happens in something a bit twenty sixty six after a third World War after several for you so in the prime universe's late see the emergence of that what would the Cumming United arse so enterprise starts in twenty one fifty one and they operate under the United Artists whatever the nighter star fleet or whatever it is but it's quite a the first few episodes of enterprise make it clear that during that century between Zach from courtroom encounter between first contact with Vulcans and the big events price the falcons have been helping but also doing a whole lot of going no we're not going to give you that technology we have to see whether you're ready for it yeah seven doing quite a lot of sitting back and going yeah they're upstairs and see if see what they develop by themselves and I think that really gets to the dating into this a bit more as well I think in discovery quite suddenly with Spock because it turns out that Michael Burnham is the adopted sister of Spock her parents are killed and she is raised by Sarachan Amanda Spock's parents and so she is reduced as the older sister of Spock and then they do the whole arc that ends up explaining why he is never mentioned her her existence is classified in all of this but with Spock they establish and then deeper eight sat happen after discovery spends long off to the future the ones who are left behind said pike and Spock they have to be deeper if someone happened and Spock talks about eight what will the com familiar chess is the prime directive where they shouldn't interfere with pre war civilizations Shingo poke and basically stopped %HESITATION and poking at things before people are at eight if they can't come up to space to meet us we don't go dine involved in them you know this alien abductions stuff lots so that's why the Vulcans before him hi I'm back and they don't get involved and they humans see this with resentment because I think what you could have just given us says she could have just helped us but the vocals are very measured they say no we need to see you develop this for yourselves and build the maturity for yourselves and show us that you can be right there and the galaxy it's not what you think it is and then it turns eighteen extent they're right I mean it feels like overbearing parenting the antagonism between humans and Vulcans and an enterprise's news because this constant refrain from all the way from the original series through first contact up to the end of origins constant refrain is that humans and Vulcans are brothers they are not the initial making friends from another planet that meant that the federation could happen where's you know enterprise this antagonism is quite yet but it shows again the idea that it's a hard road to get to that level of trust in law except it's actually quite fitting from the he says your politics conflict I like Thai they did that high they wrote that what we see in first contact as the origin for I determined empire rises and the merry universe I think that was really clever and I we have all it's my favorite thing about the whole thing I think it's merry universe and I'd love to have seen hi there would have developed that more in the %HESITATION series because at first so she would have rocks my world is shared think that she's high recaps Giorgio as the emperor so let's be clear about what happens at the end of the mirror universe to process all of enterprise is that the enterprise crew get hold of a starship that's been from there from the prime universe from the future of the prime universe and it's the defiant less ETS and the original series we have a call to this yet but we are going to get to and they've done something with something that happened in the original series the ship just disappears asserts the original service different which is a starship like the enterprise not the Deep Space Nine before him the enterprise crew in enterprise dark universe form sort Merion bus when they get a hold of the starship that's much much faster than anything that everyone at the school well it sure takes it to us planning to take over as I'm and run the last minute how she cites %HESITATION kills has she some planned all along KMG Texas as emperor and that's it it's over and I'm sorry yeah we'll get back to the prime universe yeah it is a fantastic way to Homer universe thing we haven't seen the original series founding of the man as a person we will the whole mirror universe thing goes the way that the federation its rates US relationship with other planets is definitely good even though it's vegetarian space socialism even though it's the United Nations even though it's having to work together the alternative which is a human empire human space empire is out and it's basically of all humans for psychopaths if all humans have no capacity for empathy and roll murderous creators and it was not just how the people outside the empire includes life why it's healthy humans because everyone's constantly having to fear from don't know he's gonna kill you here what would they do with the emperor Georgia carrots and discovery is great because they have to have her go to the prime universe learn a few things and then go back into the other system vision but you know she goes back to yeah you don't know where she's been sent to you and Chico state the porcelain portal which is guarded by the guardian offer or if a doctor is a bit like a setup for a spin off series just well done if you made it to the hands of all thoughts and may not come as a shock but there is another hour long recording that is going to release for by PT patrons and of next week so you don't miss size or other such bonus content sign up at the PI P. A. T. T. here for two pints fifty a month if you're in the U. K. or quicker than if you're elsewhere at Petri on dot com forward slash AP cultures there's also a point ten minutes if I takes a billable to our behind the scenes supporters have five pints in months and for that you get access to the right takes reveals %HESITATION %HESITATION we have them fill city recordings of episodes all of that again is by S. P. Treon dot com forward slash eight feet cultures please see techconnect these regular payments have been helping me to gradually upgrade my equipment which has led to a noticeable improvements and the sign quality and recording capabilities for the podcast my patrons cumulative funds have also paid for an upgrade to the podcasts websites and a man with his night at audio visual cultures dot com so if you can I would so appreciate you joining the team I really would like to thank my teacher and says about like my board of trustees or something I always run stuff past everybody before I make decisions so it be great to have you on board and if you can't help but financially but you really want to do some things please do share the podcast with people you know I really really appreciate people doing this some people like there are doing it and I noticed that and I love it and I'm so so grateful and it really is a massive help because I think the people in our lives really take notice of our recommendations so if you tell a friend I think you'd really got some so and I have a sense of this they might actually listen and that would be a huge help for us so let's shop but if you could say that so well done for getting through this again and I will catch you next time

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