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Audiovisual Cultures episode 91 – Post Modern Art Podcast with Nathan Ragland automated transcript


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this is audiovisual cultures the podcast that explores different areas of the arts and cultural production with me paula blair visit patreon.com forward slash av cultures to find out more and to join the pod so hello and thank you for tuning in to another audio visual cultures in this episode i have the great pleasure of talking to fellow podcaster nathan ragland about the postmodern art podcast i’m going to bring you straight in nathan very warm welcome how are you today i am doing wonderful thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to sit down chat um it’s honestly an honor oh don’t know if i go that far but i will take the compliment so where abouts are you best nathan i’m based in united states georgia close to the atlanta area but like at least a good couple hours away okay fantastic thank you the first person i’ve spoken to from that area of the u.s that’s very exciting for me oh really okay so it sounds nice nice again it’s an honor i’m in the very tiny uk very far away from you i mean you say that but i mean even then you know there’s a lot of culture a lot history when it comes to uk so even that little bit little area in the uk there’s a lot to delve into there that’s very true we can probably get into quite a lot of big areas because um i find you on reddit and i find what you were doing really interesting because i think it’s not a million miles away from what i’ve been trying to do as well with audio visual cultures and um i really liked your idea of trying to focus on people who aren’t necessarily getting talked about but are doing really great work and i’m trying to do something very similar here and i think the pandemic situation has made my podcast a bit more international which is great because i’m talking to people like you and i never really thought of doing that before oh absolutely if i may i it’s one of those i actually started my podcast partially because of the pandemic because i was you know getting so cooped up inside and wanted to at least talk to people but it’s also like you know sharing my love for appreciation for these artists that you know they may already have an audience but my main thing is giving them the platform that they deserve because you see so much in the industry of art in general of people like loving the art but giving no love to the artist the people that spend the time and effort to actually do this kind of stuff and like you i’ve got to talk to so many different people from all over the world that i never would have had the chance to beforehand i’ve talked to several people in the uk uh some of which are adorning my wall right now i’ve talked to a video game developer who just started in mexico i talked to an animator all the way over in the philippines if you told me even five years ago yeah you’re gonna be talking to people from the philippines and such i’d be like uh okay is is am i like a flight attendant or something like that like what’s my vacation yes it is funny how things have turned out because mine was a very i felt a very local affair local at least to the uk or wherever i happened to be so yeah it’s been strangely for some of us it has just expanded our scope of what we can do with our work so yeah it’s great to hear that too so nathan would you just outline then for us postmodern art podcast you tell me you give me your byline you tell me what’s going on there with that oh absolutely uh well like i touched on the postmodern art pockets is the podcast dedicated to giving artists who are wowing the world over the platform they deserve i am very active on the internet and i see a lot on the internet and i feel like i want to try to spread more love to the internet especially with how bipolar the internet can be at times no it’s one of those i i bring on artists every week that i admire i have them sit down and i have them sort of give a face behind the artwork that you can see out there you know i’ve talked to several people over and it’s just wonderful to have them sit down and just have to basically gush about their passion talk about what they love why they love it what got them into it you know what they have planned what they want to see in the world just have them just go all out with it i’m also in that process like exposing people to new artists and maybe even new forms of art at the same time you know i’ve gotten animators people that have done like commission work or thumbnails for youtubers i’ve had like i said video game designers couple weeks back i even had a wrestler on so like you know have them talk about the art of wrestling because there is an art form to that so yeah just more or less giving artists a spotlight and expanding a person’s ideals on what art can be yeah fantastic again i feel a real affinity with that because that’s really similar to what i’m trying to do with audio visual cultures you know i take a very loose borderless approach to what could be considered as audio and or visual culture so i think burund’s quite similar ground there so i’m really glad to hear somebody else being really open-minded about what they’re considering as art you know and that’s such a massive question oh no absolutely it’s one of those you know a chance that like i said before anxious that more respect can be given to the people that usually don’t get a lot of respect i think any opportunity there is out there that’s trying to light go ahead and shine it as bright as possible i actually sat down and listened to a couple episodes before i decided to sit down i love what you’re doing as well given you know letting them talk but i feel like there’s more of a i don’t know if it’s just more of an intellectual look at it which i appreciate more than anything else yeah i suppose that’s just as you’ve raised it there i mean i’ve come from an academic background you know so like how did you find your way to making the post-modern art podcast well i mean i also haven’t somewhat of an academic background with this kind of stuff i i went to college for mass media so like tv film all that jazz but i never really thought about a podcast until like i was online as much as i do have an academic background this is more of a i want to say bluegrass raise kind of podcast in a way maybe i don’t know um no it’s one of those like i decided to develop the pockets because online you know i you see all like the horror stories of like you know these big companies you know taking even you know pushing these workers you know pushing these animators or pushing these designers to their limit and then just turning around and like closing down the studio or you know just shutting them out of all sorts of stuff or like you see these incredible shows that people love but like the executives are like yeah no we’re not gonna even go forward with this thing so i wanted to find a way i know it’s not gonna be immediate but i wanted to find a way to bring on some of these amazing people give them a spotlight and just be like yes you make incredible art tell people why you make incredible art have people fall in love with you as much as they love your art more than anything else because i i i’m a big person when it comes to like passion and stuff i could have gone to school for a million different things but i just had to go with what i was passionate about which was filmmaking and such so the fact that you know i a lot of people nowadays they try to go with what could be safe for them compared to what they want to do so any chance i can get person that took that risk and it’s going with what they’re passionate about and living the life that they want to even if it’s not you know the end goal that they envision in mind but the fact that they’re going for their passion more than anything else it inspires me and i want to help inspire others that may not know about that path just yet fantastic great work i wanted to ask you as well about the title how did you come up with the title for your podcast and what exactly is going on there because i feel like there’s some layers to peel back oh oh there is thank you for asking this question cause i think i’ve only mentioned this once in a podcast and i absolutely love that so you and i both know that post-modern art is a movement that happened correctly from wrong like somewhat in the late 1900s so like you know 70s 80s somewhere in that general area you know maybe a little earlier basically it was a very uh important movement that obviously followed the modern movement but i decided to do it as more of a twist on like modern day society because we live in the 21st century and a lot of our stuff we upload online you know we put on twitter instagram such we post it so basically with the title i’m encouraging people to post their modern art yeah no i like it yeah because i think especially the way i think grammatically the way it’s written it’s not post-modern it’s post-modern you know it’s separate words there’s no hyphen you know so i thought no there’s something going on here so i figured it was something along those lines so thank you for uh explaining that i was going to say to even delve one little step further i kind of implied that with the logo that i have with it if you notice the logo it’s like the post and art are like digital are different fonts than modern podcasts it’s like just the post art is a thing that people will instantly notice yeah that’s it there’s so much going on there with the word post anyway you know that idea of it coming after something and then does it mean it’s just after chronologically or is it reacting to it and you even just the term postmodern has so much debate around it still and there’s just so much scope for you to play around with that i think which is nice oh no absolutely trust me you know i i guess that’s also part of the beauty of art it could be interpreted in a million different ways if you look at it hard enough that’s it yeah so no it’s quite nice and it is nicer if people see your logo and maybe we can pick that on some of the promo cards and stuff for when this episode’s going out just to show people oh absolutely i’m sure obviously the little png of it beforehand so you can go ahead and do what you need to do thanks yeah because it is it’s it’s the graphics are great on it you know they’re really it really captures all of what you’ve just said there i think really nicely and yeah you can play around with the words and the order and what is art what is post art what is modern art what is post modern art and all of that you know so it’s great and then what’s a podcast in there exactly as well an art podcast a modern podcasts and because it’s such a young medium as well it’s becoming itself all the time oh no absolutely i mean you know podcasting i think i think it’s definitely exploded because of the quarantine because people probably thought about this stuff for the longest time but what was it i heard somewhere i think it was on the apocalypse now podcast that basically podcasts are today’s version of the uh what was it called was it like state funded tv or something like that like you know like the programs that like the little mom and pops would do for like the local stations and such they’d see like three o’clock in the morning like that’s basically what the podcast community has become it’s one of those we’re making this stuff that we want to make and even if it’s only like 10 people like with their ears or to it or whatnot that’s more people than we probably anticipate whenever we decide to make the show because this is the stuff that we love at the end of the day i’m making the podcast that i want to make so why not yeah that’s it i heard you say that in one of your more recent episodes as well and i thought yeah that again that really times me because a bit like you i identified a gap and i thought i want to hear a podcast about this and i don’t think it exists i can’t find it so i will have a go at trying to make one i mean absolutely i mean think about it the only time you ever really get like a behind the scenes kind of thing for anything involving art is whenever disney is pushing out on their social media like the behind the scenes of their animation and even then it’s like the director maybe the voice who all they really did was give the voice and that’s probably about it you’re not you know really talking to the people that did the story report you’re not talking to people that are in charge of the in-betweens people that are in charge of making sure the cgi or the 3d animation didn’t glitch out 20 million different ways that’s why i want to see more than anything else just kind of how it got from point a to point b with the like a1 a2 a4 you know a29 all the way back there along the way yeah definitely yeah there’s so many different elements of creating and producing cultural objects cultural artifacts you know so as you say like a film especially and if it’s an animated film or it involves cgi or something there’s huge teams of people oh no you know there’s there’s old departments just doing leaves you know i rece i was gonna say i recently discovered like i never thought about it but it makes sense after the fact one of the first episodes i had i discovered that there was a department of art that their main responsibility is like lighting and shadow and animation like you never think about that stuff even the person that i interviewed was like i just thought that stuff happened which is compositing for those that don’t know but it’s like you know it blows my mind like you know what like even with 2d animations that makes so much sense i thought that was just part of what the animators did but like no there’s a separate department fully dedicated to that yeah because i think it takes huge amounts of research to learn exactly i think especially if you look at pixar’s development for example like over 30 years i mean they’re producing photorealism these days and if you go back right to toy story it’s what is this it’s so different you know and how they’ve developed you know you think of a bug’s life and how they did the shadows and they used the translucence of them and then you know i watched toy story 4 recently i was a bit late to that party but you know toy story 3 broke me so it took me a while so oh trust me i’m i’m still on that broken train with you and i haven’t watched toy story 4. i’m aware of what happens i just have to sit down watch it well i thought it was hilarious i thought it was brilliant like i just thought it was a roller coaster i thought it was a really great story but anyway i’ve derailed this already but yeah just that example of how intricate the work is of every department that can make a product like that and then i think with the sorts of things that you’re talking about as well where people are you know sort of more like indie producers as well where they’re doing that sort of work but on their own same or independently or you know however it is they’re doing it you know because you talk to a lot of people who put a lot of really intricate stuff out on youtube and it’s like you say it’s a bit like public access television and we’ve not that’s the world’s looking for public yes thank you i was wondering what that was just that democratization so very similar to how public access television had brought a little bit of democratization into who could make television we now have that with internet 2.0 you know and so many of us are able to use the equipment at our disposal and produce pretty decent stuff on our own and we’ve realized that we don’t have to be tethered to the big companies you know i saw big hoo-ha on twitter earlier today about adobe because they’ve been charging people incredible amounts and as i say we all know they charge incredible amounts it’s the fact that they’re trying to charge people for cancelling their description incredible amounts which is it absolutely yeah yeah because i was somebody who was very sort of thought oh i have to save up to get adobe creative cloud someday and then i’ve just researched and researched and researched and find all this open source completely legal technology and software and everything that i can use and then when i have the money i can donate to those creators to help keep them going you know and it’s there’s no difference so you maybe don’t have as many of the tools but you’ve still got enough tools to do something like this a conversational podcast you know so anyway that was a massive tangent there no i mean is a good tangent if i may also build up on a little bit i i was gonna say i know for me personally i don’t use adobe when it comes to editing the podcast i use a separate software called movavi or something like that to where it’s like is it as good as adobe no i’ll be the first to admit that but it gets the job done because of what i’m trying to do with this podcast compared to like a filmmaker or something like that but even then like you know you said yourself you know you want to turn around and also give back to these creators to try to support them i tried to do that to this day with my podcast books i’m sure if whenever you notice going through the catalog you notice the thumbnails and such how each of them were like different and vibrant and you know a million different ways i usually try to ask the artists i bring on or just a separate artist in the art community hey i want to try and find a way to represent your art this is the best way i can think of right now is okay if i commissioned you for it and with all but like a couple who offered most of them have uh i’ve made sure to commission them for the opportunity because again this is the thing that they do this is the thing that they dedicate themselves to i am not going to take advantage of them and not pay them for doing something for little me yeah that’s a really lovely idea to do that i mean and that’s a whole other issue as well is i mean how do you feel as a as an indie podcaster do you get support for what you’re doing as well like we have so little access to funding streams to do our work because what we do as well in making this is labor too but also like you say i mean that’s something where i feel very conscious of that as well of we’re asking people to give us their time and their voice and their ideas and we can’t necessarily i mean i certainly am not an obsession necessary to pay a fee and so many artists especially even from organizations who can’t afford to pay them they’re asked to work for free all the time because it’s the kudos of it the love of it should be enough we see the horror stories out there more than anything else but i mean it’s absolutely insane how little respect some people actually do get i actually brought on artists a while back her name is kihori uh she is an anime from the philippines i was talking about she was talking about how when she first had her first animation job they worked her like to the bone i’m talking about like several hours and overtime and on average per week she would be paid 50 bucks a week that’s not 50 bucks per day that’s not 50 bucks that’s per week can you live off of 50 bucks a week no it was so bad for her that she actually fell out of animation like there was a point to where she was like i don’t love this anymore because they’re working me for basically next to nothing and like luckily for her she stumbled upon youtube thumbnails working for a youtuber as only recently got back in the animation because she had that itch and luckily she’s working with a wonderful independent crew that is making sure that she is compensated well for her responsibilities because that’s how you’re supposed to do it you know it’s hard for a lot of artists to get a lot of respect because i feel like there’s sort of like that disconnect that you know talk about like people love the art but they don’t really care about the artists themselves that’s part of the reason why i wanted to do this podcast to sort of bridge that gap to let people know hey there are humans that are making this stuff before you know behind what you’re doing and i want you to know that they deserve all the love time for their time effort and hard work that they put to the stuff that you love yeah absolutely it’s a small thing to be able to just give them that platform and and let them speak and talk about their work but hopefully it helps and i don’t i don’t know how do you feel about that i mean i i mean at least for me right now i don’t know how much it’s helping because i’m not that i’ve only just recently started this thing in september and i hadn’t even hit a hundred subscribers yet am i saying that i’m making the direct impact in the world right now and i’m giving them that love no but at the same time you know it’s not like i was going to be it’s not like i went to stick and i was gonna be the next joe rogan i was gonna bring on freaking what’s the biggest name like i’m like my first episode yeah i’m bringing on dwayne the rock johnson to talk about his one voice he did moana and producing stuff which i would love to have him on and love to have them talk about like producing stuff because there is an art to that but i knew that that wasn’t going to be the case but i also know that with a lot of these artists i was talking about this with a separate thumbnail artist her name is a little hip no love her to death she was a great guest to have on but like at the end of every podcast i usually try to praise the artist because again i love their art and i brought them on for a reason and you know one of the things that she was talking about after i gave my praises you know she was honestly touched with what i was saying because for her again she’s a thumbnail artist so for her it’s like do the thumbnail okay it’s up and we go on to the next one because for them it’s like you know a daily youtuber something along the lines of that a lot of people don’t click on youtube videos to just because the thumbnail looks pretty although it does give a good first impression but it’s not you know that’s not always okay so for her just like hear that kind of stuff like it touched her and i was like that’s the kind of thing i wanted to do you know i i know that my audience is huge right now but the little audience that i do have that does interact or whatnot they’re incredible the support they give to these artists and the support they give me as well which i’m amazed by because i’m just trying to present people more than anything else but like i have i’ve got one person who on twitter goes by purgatory ram and he keeps messaging me talking about like yeah you’re an inspiration for like bringing all these artists you’re actually inspiring me to really go for art and like try to do that i’m like that is incredible to hear because that’s like that’s just one person that i’m actually getting the chance to talk to you uh another person who goes by name tipsy j hearts who have actually brought on the podcast i’ve actually collaborated with her to like make some merchandise for my personal shop you know which i it’s something i’ve wanted to do it is what it is but same time like you know she forever thanks me for like all the opportunities i give her and she forever thanks me for you know just being a good friend more than anything else and i’m just like i’m just being a human being for the for you because of the incredible art that you’re making so i know i’m not gonna get like the huge numbers and i’m not striving to get huge numbers if i stay to where i only get 10 15 views per single episode screw it that’s my legacy but i’m getting to sit down talk to these incredible people and let them know at least from one first-hand experience hey your art is incredible you should know it and you should know that we love it and if other people jump on board with that kind of thing and at least one person is touched and inspired by that my job is complete i think that’s really well put nathan i think that’s commendable i think quite relevantly to this i think quite recently i was starting to feel really low about everything you know all of this sort of stuff that you’ve just said there i was starting to feel like oh i’ve been working so hard on all of this and i know i’m making a really good show and i’ve had amazing guests on and the world needs to hear about them and i just feel like i can’t crack through and then i just thought well i’m ignoring the people who do listen to me because my regular listenership may be quite small but they’re there and they matter to me and they’ve helped me and they’re supporting me and they keep me going and they matter and i’m making this for me and i’m making it for them and anyone else who wants to join us and it just feels like well i kind of just had to realize that there are strata for these things because as you’re saying you know although mr the rock is very welcome anytime i won’t turn him away ever although he seems to be working out pretty hard at the moment according to instagram

he’s a bit busy but uh you know he’s he’s super super welcome but yeah it’s people like us who are trying to do something and our peers here working their butts off to do their thing as well and to just try and give everybody that space and that space to communicate and to just share ideas because there’s just so many of us now and there’s so many amazing talented people and hard-working people and it’s so good to just try to show like there are these people who make it and become the stars and become the a-listers but that doesn’t mean that what we’re doing isn’t good or doesn’t have value because maybe what we’re doing might even be better depending on how you quantify it i don’t know but you know it’s important i was gonna say i know exactly what you’re talking about with bringing on these incredible people it seems like no one’s watching one of the biggest guests like when it comes to like scope of what they’ve done and one of the people that i was most excited to bring on was a guy by the name of oh there’s two separate ones but the first one is a guy by the name of joe horn does that name ring a bell to you i don’t think so no have you ever heard of a show called class of 3000 no maybe it’s a yes thing it might be a u.s thing but it’s one of those it’s one of those like cult classic shows like it was on for a couple seasons and no one really gave a lot of love to it but like it was still like absolutely incredible and people absolutely loved it but i’m sure you’ve also heard of stuff along the lines of teenage mutant ninja turtles and sonic the hedgehog and uh i don’t know about the boondocks if you’ve heard of that show or not i heard of it you’ve heard of fair enough joe horton was at least a director for the entirety of the run of class of 3000 but he also directed a couple episodes of the boondocks he worked on like i said the original teenage mutant ninja turtles the original psych the hedgehog series in like the 90s um he worked on pee-wee’s playhouse for some of the animated segments that they had for them this guy had a lot of history behind him so it’s like i was exactly so i was like i was super excited just to have him on and i thought okay people are going to recognize the stuff he was on maybe everyone listening about like the behind the scenes stuff which he had a lot of insight and i was so glad to have him on it was one of the most like spiritually fulfilling episodes to sit down and talk with him more than anything else but when it initially came out i think there was only like 50 or 60 people that listed like views to the youtube video and i was like like it crushed me a little bit but one it’s actually boosted up i think it’s actually got close to 200 views now but even then still it’s like you know the end of the day like i sit down i’m like i got to talk to one of the people that basically developed my childhood because i was a huge fan of that class of 3000 show like if nothing else that was the experience that i walked away and i was like i have this snap forever in my pocket it was a great experience i was lucky enough to bring a couple of my friends for that interview as well because they were also influenced by the show and we were all like getting together to to meet up anyway so it’s like i wanted to do this is kind of like my little christmas gift to them but it’s like you know it was it was a great experience that i would never take back for anything at this point and like if that’s what inspired me i can imagine like the thumbnail artist for one of the big youtubers that someone may not know about you know a whole lot you know maybe the video only has like 12 15 views but at least one of those views is someone that wants to turn around and do that kind of art i i know that my audience may not be the most vocal and that’s fine you know they’ve got lives and for some of them they don’t want to be as open on twitter and stuff that’s completely understandable but the end of the day like i know there’s an audience there i know people are loving what i’m pushing out and i really do hope that some of them stay and not only listen to the artists that they want to but like go back and listen to some of the other artists you know some of the incredible people because i’ve talked to so many people that i’ve like love to admire today again if you told me if you told me even like two or three years ago yeah you’re going to talk to these incredible peoples i would have thought you were insane because i mean you know i i like sabran joe horn i brought on left that london who is a indie pop artist who i absolutely loved and admired for years and the fact that i got to sit down chat with her and like that conversation that was like my third episode too so it’s like that was very early on i was loving that one it’s insane what i’m getting to do more than anything else it has become a real privilege i think i know for me as well the people that opened me up to that i just wouldn’t wouldn’t have even thought you know i’ve talked to people who produce audio dramas talk to people who you know work in different kinds of music and yeah it’s just opened up a world of even just cultural production that i wouldn’t have thought of interviewing people who worked in those sorts of things it wouldn’t have just come to my mind you know because i’m sort of from a very traditional film studies background as well so just opening yourself out as well to those possibilities i mean that’s really fantastic being able to really chat and chat thoroughly to people who make things and again it’s areas where i think when you’re a kid and you’re watching cartoons and stuff because i know that i had a healthy diet of teenage mutant ninja turtles and stuff the really old ones from the 90s yeah i would be hugely excited to talk to that person as well you know and to learn about that because i think when you’re a kid and you’re absorbing all that it’s just a thing that happens isn’t it and you just don’t know like we were saying earlier you don’t think about a huge team of people the creative process it goes behind all of that you know so that’s really exciting for you and and as well as that i mean you’re building up skills you’re perfecting your interview technique and um you know i think we’ve landed on something very similar you know i prefer a very conversational approach as well and i think when people are relaxed and you know i think you get more information and it’s a really nice listening experience to people because you can you listen to it and you go they’re getting on really well and this is a nice conversation because you almost feel like you’re part of it and i mean i’m i’m a dork so i’ll you know start to talk along with the podcast sometimes and go oh that’s so nice oh that’s really interesting what did they say that for i have a podcast for you if that’s the kind of thing you’re talking about but like even more broad than what we do there’s a there’s a podcast that i recently started listening to called stranger than christian which i i don’t know if you’ve ever yeah you’re writing that down right now i’m not done no it’s one of those like the guy literally just brings on right like he puts out a form on like reddit and stuff or like his own personal website and he’ll just bring on random strangers and they’ll just talk for like an hour about whatever just comes up like whether it be about their careers or like their passions and all that kind of stuff and like i’ve fully gone ahead deep i’ve only recently found out about it i’ve listened to just about every single episode so far fantastic yeah it’s good to find you know our podcast as well we just get hooked into it you know like i’ve got all my regulars that i’m very up to date with and then i will lose them for months because i find something and i have to do the whole thing because it’s so good oh yeah no absolutely trust me i’ve been i haven’t been that huge of the podcast before and even whenever i started my podcast like i i there was a couple i listened to here and there but i never really had a chance to fully like delve in and go all in on the indie podcast world but now that i’m like really into it like i’ve wanted to listen to others and i wanted to you know get inspiration more than anything else and so some of the podcasts i find out there and some of the podcasts that uh even i’ve like appeared on i’ve appeared on a couple at this point right now one of them that’s actually got their episode published but like the other one’s coming out soon but even then like you know if i decide to jump in on a podcast like yours it’s one of those like i wanna at least sit down and be like okay i love what this person’s doing like awesome podcast stuff there was one that i actually interviewed for on saturday to where i never thought i would be interviewed for this kind of podcast it was an agriculture podcast wow yes but like the way that he’s going about it is to promote agriculture literacy in the world to sort of let people understand you know hey agriculture is more than just you know working on the farm you know all that kind of stuff like he’s gone out of his way to sort of relate it to like music and star wars and all sorts of like pop culture stuff i actually sat down with him because i wanted to see if there was a way that we could connect agriculture with art because as an art podcast i wanted to increase that literacy as well and like whenever we sat down and talked it was amazing how related the two worlds were you would never think like you know agriculture is our art is as integral as agriculture but like what was it we were talking about how like people didn’t give a lot of love and respect to the respective fields and such especially like when the pandemic happened both of our fields they were really vital in helping people get through agriculture obviously we couldn’t survive without the agriculture and art we would have gone crazy if there wasn’t art for us to consume yeah excellent point yeah i think just on that i mean a good friend of mine who is an artist based in vancouver sylvia grace border she has actually done quite a lot of artwork about agriculture and urban agriculture in um greater vancouver yeah it’s a very sort of niche field i think oh yeah no it very is very niche and such but it’s like it was awesome for us to find that connection but that goes back to my point in the podcast out there it’s such like it’s absolutely insane like what’s cropped up because of quarantine and such because for some of these people it’s like they’ve wanted to do this for ages i want to do something similar to this for a while like i said i went to school for mass media so like tv film stuff some long lines that i was going to be a filmmaker that’s still a dream i just need to get my last semester of classes done uh i can already hear my mom telling me you need to do it but whenever i was in college i was already developing this idea for what i was going to call the origin story where i was going to bring on like you know again actors you know writers directors producers and such and get their idea on what got them interested what they want to do like what i’m doing now but like more based in the film field but as i develop more and as i once i got sort of away from that but not really i realize you know at least when it comes to like the directors and the actors and stuff like that they kind of already have that there’s a million different podcasts that already gives them like the spotlight and stuff along the lines of that not saying that some of them don’t deserve it if any of them do want the opportunity opportunity to sit down and chat with me i’m not going to turn them away um but whenever especially whenever the quarantine started happening like i was consuming like a lot more art than i ever thought of like you know youtube with video stuff like that being on twitter and seeing all the art that’s on there that people were producing i’m like people need to give them that spotlight so that’s why i started my podcast so my mind’s a bit older than that i mean i started three years ago as i say it was that thing of and this has come up actually on your podcast before where i keep thinking of spaceballs i don’t know if you’ve seen spaceballs and might be better oh i’ve seen spaceballs this great classic oh that’s good that’s a relief because it’s one of my favorite films and then i see your swords is not as big as mine i didn’t see you playing with your dolls again sir but yeah you keep thinking of the line stop preparing you’re always preparing stop preparing just go right and it’s just that idea of just do it because you’re going to be preparing forever and you just have to try because if you don’t try it you’re going to be a perfectionist and you’re never going to do it because you’re going to procrastinate forever so i just started it and i just gave it a go and i learned by making loads of mistakes the really really early episodes they’re not bad but the you know the audio quality isn’t great because i hadn’t figured out what to do yet or we didn’t really have much of a direction for the podcast yeah i mean most of the early ones are my partner is a film historian and it’s us being real nerds about stuff we’ll just watch a movie together and then talk for about two or three hours about it so that was basically how it started there we go yeah and it still doesn’t have i mean the interview format it’s just one of the kinds of format that this can be you know it doesn’t have a fixed thing so it’s that thing of just give it a try because then you’ll see and it’s a bit like what you’re saying i mean these things are out in the world and they can have their own legacy because once you put it on youtube hopefully somebody will find it at some point because they just a search will hit the right thing and algorithms seo will pick something up i’m also surprised at times with the algorithm on youtube is one of the most complex things out there and like how many different like music videos or how many different like animated films i watch whenever i’m watching a different kind of anime from some other complete random artist because of that algorithm or anything else that’s how i found like a good number that’s how i found one of my biggest loves for animation right now uh vivienne medrano which if you’ve heard of uh has been hotel hell of a boss the spin the horse tunes i just found a random video that she did to where she did like an animated video of dai young by kesha that’s how i first heard of her it was like watching other animated music videos and stuff and then next thing i know like that got a lot of love and then she starts posting teasers of this uh husband hotel and then she released the pilot and the pilot he gets over like 50 70 million views like it’s a big deal so it’s one of those like if what i’m producing out there gets someone that at least click on the video that’s all i can ask for i think it’s tough because everything’s feeling quite oversaturated i find you know it feels quite difficult to find certain things because there’s so much content now and we’re producing more and more all the time but yet what do we do we can’t just stop because there’s loads of other people like i mean that’s the thing we all have a voice so it’s about just trying to find a way to get it to reach somebody out there yeah i mean for me i mean i’ve gotten i’ve mentally gotten to the point like at least early on whenever i was making the podcast i’ve gotten to a point where i’m like i don’t care if it’s only two people or two million people that watch the podcast at the end of the day there’s only one viewer that i’m trying to satisfy and that is myself if i’m satisfied with a podcast and i sit down i go back and listen and there’s a lot of the episodes most the episodes i go back and listen to but if i go back and i listen to it and i enjoy it just as much as i did whenever i sit down having that podcast i think i did a good podcast more than anything else if the people decide to join in on the fun that i’m having they’re more than welcome to i am not going to turn them away but at the end of the day i again i would greatly appreciate whatever numbers i can get but as long as one person is satisfied and that one person is me that i did a good podcast yeah i think that’s a really good way of putting anything as well because we have to start with ourselves and we are the test audience for our own work really because i think you can be you can be critical about it and you can be constructive about it but i do that as well i tend to listen to my own podcast not because of me but i mean i think it’s useful to listen back to yourself because that’s how you learn to improve but oh yeah also because i’m really fascinated by the guests that i have on and i think once you’re when you’re in interview mode like we are at the minute you know half of your brain is somewhere else because you’re right as are we still recording is everything going okay you know you’re sort of concentrating on a couple of other things and you can’t necessarily absorb plus my memory is terrible these days and i like to just you know listen back over it when i’ve edit you because i’ll edit the whole thing and then i’ll i’ll listen to it when it comes out right because i like to know well i like to make sure that it’s working because i’m still so paranoid that anything technological i’ll ever do just is gonna fall apart so it’s good just to make sure oh that that worked that’s good that plays on apple that’s good there you go no trust me i know i know exactly what you’re talking about with that kind of stuff the joe horn episodes i keep bringing up one of the biggest issues with that one is so again i had me and two other friends beside me we were all sitting down for some reason mice my brain did not think we should only have one microphone no my brain thought we should all bring our microphones right here in this super close confined space and talk with one guy so audio wise that podcast was an absolute nightmare because there’s at one point to where we decided okay we’re gonna use one mic we’re gonna use this guy’s mic because this guy’s mic is good we had that for a while and i’m like wait i have my own audio recording i’ll tell you what i’ll go ahead and turn on my microphone and then we’ll just go and you know so at least have my little side one but then i forgot to realize that the recording software that i use recorded both my microphone and his microphone and the guest and joe horn because he was on his phone so we could hear a little bit of our feedback through his phone and such so like the editing on that one was an absolute nightmare there was a point to where for some reason his fee just completely cut out and there was like a good 10 15 minutes where we’re just waiting there trying to figure out if he’s gonna be able to come back because i tried messaging him a million different ways but the end of the day like after i done edited it i still go back and listen to that episode because the fun conversations that we’ve had and such and like part of me is not like whenever i listen back to a podcast is not just you know listening and learning from myself it’s going back and sort of reliving that funny experience i get with talking with these people because the guests i bring you know the people i bring on like i am proud of just about every single one of them i i have a blast listening to every single time and like listening back to what they have to say and like almost learning again with that kind of stuff because again at the end of the day i’m making the content that i love to know about what i’d love to learn about and so like any insights that they give is an absolute blast that’s great to hear it just occurs to me that i wondered how you felt about this as well because i think for such a long time i was someone who analyzed culture i analyzed films and then again one of the many reasons behind really starting this was wanting to be both an analyst and a producer of culture and i was wondering what you thought about that idea as well so that that sort of jewel position there’s nothing ever wrong with having that position with that stuff if you’re not judging the culture around you then you’re just being ignorant to whatever’s going on and being ignorant not understanding the culture is not going to nourish you as someone that appreciates the culture and you know being a producer like you know if you’re going to make content you know make sure you make it with a good purpose i mean if you think you’re producing the content that you think is going to help the culture one way or another who am i to stop you i think part of us being podcast especially as being an art podcast is preserving the culture a little bit so in a way we’re sort of helping with people understanding and analyzing the culture i’m sure you have on several occasions like gone back to like you know seeing how movies were like the 50s and 60s and 70s stuff and seeing the mentality that the world had then and seeing how different it is now well the stuff that we’re making right now can you imagine what people you know 20 50 100 years from now if they go back and find stumble upon this and analyze wow this is what their culture was like during this kind of situation how much you want to bet that like at least two or three generations from that people are gonna be curious on how people were during covid and they’re gonna go back to these podcasts and stuff and be like wow this is how they got through coving yeah exactly yeah yeah i think about that quite a lot too because they’re almost like covered diaries yeah it has completely changed how we work oh yeah absolutely i was gonna say like you know we talked about before but like you say it yourself where’d like the public access tv well have you ever gone back and see some of those old public access tvs and see just like how they did their stuff you know how they would set up their shows and like again getting that look into like their realities and such you know like if we were watching like movies in the 70s something like that how much like the cold war may have influenced them to make certain movies and such like that’s something that we’re never going to experience but like as an analyst we can look back on how they’re making movies in the 70s such realize okay this is how they got through the potential existential dread that they could die tomorrow from nuclear warfare going back to like the 30s and such seeing all those like the classic looney tunes and such or like the classic cartoons where they they influence or they inspire people hey you should go to war or you should help people you know invest in the military and such as an analyst you go back to like that’s how they got through the potential dread that they could be aerated by germany tomorrow you know that’s something to help them you know as an analyst you’re always going to be looking back and so if we’re making stuff right now that other analysts can eventually look back on then it’s going to benefit society at the end of the day absolutely yeah i feel like there’s a lot they’re going to have to sift through yeah let me imagine i imagine there’s a lot of crap that we haven’t really dug up back in the day that i’m sure i mean yeah people are gonna go through the bigger names because those are the things that at least at the time for us we look at that stuff and that’s kind of stuff that helps us get through like the bigger name stuff but i imagine if people really want to do the research like yeah there’s gonna be a lot of crap to sift through but it’s not like it’s the first time people have had to sift through that kind of stuff to get what they’re looking for yeah yeah i think these kinds of digital media that we’re producing they’re going to be a lot more easily preserved than you say artifacts from 100 years ago and so on but it’s so much storage you know it’s just so much stuff to have to store somewhere and it does need physical storage space because we keep thinking that it’s invisible but it’s not really it needs physical storage i know absolutely i mean i know it’s still somewhat digital but i mean i keep all my episodes on a hard drive so i mean as well as i at least have that that’s about the closest to a physical storage space that i have this is just a quick interruption to say you can find out more at audiovisualcultures.wordpress.com where you can also sign up to your monthly newsletter straight to your inbox and listen to our latest episodes now i keep enjoying this one there is more great stuff to come nathan is there anything we haven’t touched on that you would like to bring up that you think is important well actually you know what i’m gonna flip the interview a little bit i want to interview you for a quick second oh yes i know i mean i know you said yourself you started this a couple years back but what really got you what got you invested in like art in the first place like what made you like really go all in on it and realize this is the thing i want to at least invest in or talk about for the rest of my life that’s a really excellent question actually for me that’s probably quite a long answer but i’ll try and be concise i mean for me so as i say i i studied film at university and i had really wanted to study english literature so you know i did my we do our a levels here at school when you you’re finishing your seniors in high school and you finish with your a levels so those are the exams you do to get your grades it’ll get you into university so i really wanted to do an english literature degree and i got in to do that and then when i was applying for university i saw that you could study film and i didn’t even know you could study film and all through my teens you know i had been watching very strange films lots of art house films and lots of classics and stuff and and i was really obsessed with it with mystery science theater 3000. yeah so um you know i was really into just all areas of film and you know i didn’t care whether it was good or bad or what i just loved cinema so much in all its forms so really it was from that was really what got started so i did a joint honors degree i did both and then i just needed to do more films so i did a master’s and then a phd and then it was in my phd that i branched out into more looking at visual art as well as cinema there we go so i became looking into more where cinema and art converged they were mixing more and more and modernist cinema and um what was happening with elective video art and things so sort of moving image art and and it just became very messy and slippery and i love all that i love that it was i got frustrated with the institution that everything had to be letterboxed and put in neat categories and the work i was looking at was very messy and i like the messiness of it so um that’s kind of the fast version of all of that there’s always a beauty with kind of a disaster sort of an organized mess more than anything else like how stuff goes down so you said yourself that you this podcast initially started with just being basically a further extent on your film studies like just analyzing films and sort of going with the history kind of stuff like that correct me if i’m wrong it’s kind of evolved at this point i don’t know if it still implies that but like it’s also involved you said yourself bringing on these industry people and like having them talk about their passion stuff like that are you personally happy with that evolution of the podcast like whatever you started compared to where you are now are you satisfied with the fact that this is where you are right now and you love what you’re doing i think so yeah i uh again another really good question i think so i mean i didn’t anticipate this very similar to yourself i did not anticipate it breaking out the way that it did yeah don’t get me wrong i mean i think we were doing really good work in that sort of format of right we go and watch a film or we go to a museum for a day or we go to an exhibition or something and then we all discuss it sometimes we were going to conferences academic conferences about something and then maybe interviewing people at the conference you know doing different things like that but i think what it has become i think more recently because it has i think for about a year now solid it has become an interview show and not exclusively but predominantly and i’m really happy with that because when i started i didn’t imagine anyone would want to do this with me so i’m really astonished that people are really you know people are getting in touch with me saying can i be on your show and i’m like yeah of course there we go no i was gonna say it’s funny that you bring that up so the way that i the thing that convinced me more than anything else that i should do the podcast is just randomly one day i decided to pull up a notebook i just wrote down a whole bunch of names of all sorts of different artists i had admired i’m like you know what one of these days i want to interview as many of the people on this list as possible i posted on twitter i tagged as many people as i could that post them like basically convinced me to do this podcast if i make this podcast who’d be down to be interviewing with me and i had a couple of responses from the artists themselves that i’ve had on that there and one of them guy’s name is uh super d was one of the first people to respond he said he was down he was my first guest having that sort of convinced me to realize there are people that want to do this kind of thing and i was all down for it so i have to ask you said you got people like approaching you now why not come on this podcast you’ve interviewed how many people have you say that you would interview like give me like a rough number like a rough number you don’t give me exactly like roughly like 50 100 more or less yeah so i would say at least 50 50 possibly more so this will probably be episode 91 for us there we go and quite a few of the episodes have been analysis of something um and not necessarily an interview but there are episodes where there are multiple interviews that’s fair enough that’s right enough between 50 and 100 i would say is a good package yeah and i imagine a lot of people come from all over the world like you know america all over europe um have you gone anywhere like you know japan or australia or any of the regions like outside of those the two major ones or has it been mainly those for now it’s been mainly uk europe and the u.s yes not for want of trying there are times when um you know i’ve been in touch with somebody and they’ve said they’d love to do it and they they have a regular collaborator who’s maybe in korea or something i said well would you would your collaborator like to come on oh they don’t speak very much english okay i haven’t got any korean so i was mentally the same way with the filipino uh lady who was absolutely wonderful it’s one of those like i never had that kind of experience but i was glad that she wanted to sit down and chat because it was just it was kind of one of those more or less getting a look into the window of their culture with how they do animation was completely different and eye-opening but back to my original point so you’ve interviewed all these people like all over the world so far what is the biggest lesson or the biggest takeaway that you’ve had so far through this podcast journey oh gosh that’s a very good question and i hope you’ll answer these as well for yourself because you’re making my website very easy for me right now i feel very jammy uh biggest lesson i don’t know i think maybe coming to that realization that you’re doing good work because one of my guests jack bowman who is a producer of audio drama he told me make good work that’s the managed to live by and that was something that somebody who a mentor to him told him years ago was make sure you do good work and everything else will follow from that and i’ve really tried to live by that for the last lot of months since i interviewed him you know i’ve tried not to sweat it when i know i’m making good work because i i think just having to face down what we think of as success we have to change that because the way we put language on things is such a problem i think it makes people feel crap about themselves and they’re not crap they’re brilliant they’re working so hard they’re doing their best they’re doing great things and even you know what even if they’re just doing good things not amazing things even if people are mediocre that should be fine as well because they’re doing something you know so i think that’s a big thing for me it’s a big reminder to me of we just have to keep going and we have to do good work then at least we can be proud of ourselves and i think the podcast is really you i always would have felt that before but maybe not believed it enough and i think i’ve really believed it recently okay now absolutely i totally get recovered but i’ll go ahead and answer that question as well because they say i’d say i’ve learned two major lessons when it comes to podcasting number one is just no matter what shoot your shot you never know you’d be surprised how many people would be interested and invested in sitting down and talking with you with this kind of stuff again if you told me months ago that i’d be talking to someone who’s got a video that’s got over 70 million views on it i’d be like okay that’s insane why does this person even pay attention to me but it’s like you know that would never have happened if i had never sent the person an email being like hey i’d love to just sit down and talk and the fact i got response from them there are several people that i’ve been amazed like just how easy it was for me to get in contact with them and have them sit down and just talk because a lot of people they want to talk they want to showcase their love they want to have that passion because that’s the thing that they’re going for that’s the thing that they’re invested in like why not fan the flames you know why not let that passion grow more than anything else the other one i’ve learned is just how connected the art community is and how supportive the art community is i i am this like upbeat person but there are several times where i have that self-doubt about myself of like is this worth it am i just wasting other people’s times you know i i constantly have that self-doubt but then i turn around and i got like a friend that i’ve made through these podcasts and stuff being like you know yes i love what you’re doing like you know you’re doing great things and we’d love to see this thing grow and like there are several times to where like some of the people that i’ve had on the podcast and you know have them talk about their passion like they’re going through stuff and how the art community will rally around them i recently had one guest who she was in the closet for like the longest time like at least with her family like when it comes to social media she was smart enough to make sure that you know hey this is social media separate from like the family stuff but like she finally came out of the closet and like basically told like the truth about who she was and like her girlfriend all this kind of stuff like that and it was like a weight off her shoulder and like the amount of support that was rallying around her for that moment like it was absolutely insane through the highest the highs and the lows of lows like this art community is more than willing to support you and like in turn you should be supporting them as much because at the end of the day like you guys are all in it together to create to basically express yourselves to create this vision that people want to see and like everyone’s kind of in it for the same case that’s been like the biggest lesson i the biggest takeaways i’ve had since i’ve started podcasting now those are really important things as well and um some other things have come up on mine too where it’s people who realize that you know i think actually my previous guest dan said that it doesn’t matter what you’re making we’re all creative people there you go and it’s that empathy with each other means so much that ability to share because i think if you’re creating anything at all you’re lying yourself bare for people you know even us doing this and talking like this you know it’s an avenue or it’s a platform not just for talking about ideas and profound art and you know all of this but this is how we feel about stuff our knowledge comes from how we feel about stuff how we react to things i think so much of the time yeah just remembering that too it’s at the bottom of it all we’re all creative people whether you’re an artist or not whether you’re a filmmaker or a podcaster or a musician whatever it is you can label yourself all you want but there’s creativity somewhere in all of us i think absolutely absolutely i mean at the end of the day this is something i actually talked about with my first guest super d one of the things that he didn’t want to see is like gatekeeping how some people would be like oh you’re not this kind of artist you’re not this kind of thing this concept a community cannot thrive without support and the fact that there’s that much love and support in the community for no matter how big or how small a person is doing it as long as people are willing to put in the work for it as well and do the kind of stuff it’s absolutely incredible and something that i’d love to see and hopefully help with growing with my podcast yeah excellent there’s a nice parallel i think with the podcasting community and especially with indie podcasters i think there’s a very similar um emphasis on helping each other and trying to pull each other up a bit somebody will put out on social media these are the ideas i have does anybody want to add anything and you’ll just chuck stuff in the pot you know and just advise each other on software i use this and i didn’t think it worked but this one worked really well you know whether it’s software or um a streaming service or whatever it is you know it’s just pass on the information because guests have come on and one of my guests makes a vlog cast on youtube and you know he put me onto stream yard which i’d never heard of before and i use that sometimes because i can’t afford the fancy zoom so you can’t afford to pray i was gonna say streamlabs is how i record my thing i go on discord i i said that through there and i record there it’s just learning all of these things it’s just learning right because i know about discord but i didn’t realize you could record on it until recently or i’ve guessed on things where they have something that’s specific to their country that they’re able to use and and get more than one person that way and stuff you just learn all these different things and then you have options you have choices you know and you’re restricted because i think the very first one of these i did the very first remote recording i did was skype and skype is fine and everything but it’s not ideal no it’s never ideal but at the same time you know would it whatever you have to do in order to bring forth the product that you want i mean you go for it i mean like for me discord works well because a lot of people do have zoom and such but like discord is free and a lot of these smaller artists don’t want to pay money at least for me you know i don’t want to pay money for that just yet but same time like a lot of people a lot of people nowadays you’d be surprised how many people use discord and stuff when it comes to just like casual conversations and such yeah that’s it yeah because i think it was something that a friend had put me on to because she’d started a reading grip on it and so i find discord that way but i’m still learning how to use it because i’m an old millennial and it’s very new for me hey with art you’re always learning stuff so it wouldn’t hurt to know it that’s it i mean i’m from the sort of msn messenger generation oh yeah okay i know exactly what you’re talking about it’s a little bit big for me i was gonna say i would say i don’t think i’m that much younger than you i’m aware of like all the the aol messengers and all the what used to be the internet before the internet really blew up in the 2010s i know guys it was our fault sorry we started the emoticons that are now emojis yeah the emoticons crawled so that the emojis could run yeah exactly and boy have they run wild jesus you’ve thrown some really good questions at me there nathan i mean i’m a podcaster i try to think of good questions yes me too but i think i’m i’m also from a place where it’s not the done thing to interrogate each other so i am sort of in where i’m like don’t ask anybody anything and you are a podcaster and you’re interviewing this person ask them a question i mean it goes it goes back to one of the things i’ve learned shoot your shot the worst they could say is no that’s it

do you want to point people to where we can find more information about your fabulous podcast and you know your socials and things you want to just send people in those directions what me talk about my podcast more no i don’t need to no absolutely um you can find the postmodern art podcast on youtube spotify apple podcast anchor and most podcast streaming platforms um i can’t think of all the top of my head but if you listen to podcasts and you know where to go it’s probably gonna be on there you can follow me on twitter at postmodartpod for future updates and guest announcements and if you’re interested if you loved hearing me and you want to help support me and also the artists i’ve brought on to make some of these designs i have a merch shop which is for us and the eu so you could easily be able to purchase as well is a teespring.com stores slash pmap brilliant that’s great nathan yeah so i mean is there anything more you want to add if i’ve forgotten anything at the end of the day no matter what just go out there and create something amazing yeah even if no one else fixes if you think it’s amazing go out there and create it do what you love follow your passion don’t get distraught by everything else just do what makes you happy at the end of the day and i just remembered that you begin your podcast by asking a certain question yeah i’m gonna throw it at you you’re gonna throw it at me oh boy okay so what is it it’s um what is your most unpopular art opinion there we go i’ll say to be fair i’ve asked it what over 25 times at this point so i’m used to asking that question what is my most unpopular art opinion i i’m gonna get a lot of flack for this especially because in fact that some of the guests i brought on anime is over hyped oh yes cause here’s the thing it’s not that it’s bad there are bad animes out there it’s not that anime people celebrate anime like is god it is the end all be all like is the ultimate form when it comes to animation such what you have to realize that a lot of anime at least a good 90 of it or whatnot starts off as a manga that had basically a test run with an audience so that they already know what’s going to work what’s not going to work so ari weeds it down and they basically produce the best that it is meanwhile in america or other places whenever we try to create anything that’s based on a previous property people like or their own original they’re putting it you know they should flex their creative muscles meanwhile that’s 90 percent of anime when it comes to anime i mean it’s one of those like anytime something new comes out when it comes to anime people are already like jumping on board and stuff like that at the end of the day if you love anime that’s great but don’t worship it like it’s a god all right it’s one of those is a medium at the end of the day that people are going to love and again it’s already had a test run 90 people already know what’s gonna happen on the show before it happens on the show so it’s one of those like don’t discredit western animation just because the eastern animation is doing successful because of what they already know to do that’s why i say anime is over heights and tristan sir love it i like to at least think it’s a somewhat educated answer too you know it is it is because it isn’t just well it’s not as good as everybody thinks it is it is a very informed answer and i appreciate it that’s fantastic mine is not anywhere near as interesting i think mine is more along the lines of yokono was better before john lennon okay right okay okay now i’m interested to hear this can’t elaborate on that opinion i think yukunu um has always been a fantastic artist and i think there’s so many beatles fans who just give off about her you know oh she ruined battle she ruined john lennon but i think it’s the other way around i think he i think she was doing really amazing work and then he came along and now she’s doing amazing work again yeah i mean to be fair i mean you know people get all sorts of influences from all sorts of other things just because you haven’t been with john lennon doesn’t mean that you actually she’s coming from yeah well i do yeah because i just um i’m not a beatles fan and i mean there’s an unpopular opinion right there not being a beatles fan well exactly exactly i was more i’m more of a kinks person like the kings you know if you’re you’re one or the other and more on the kinks side of things they don’t really rate the beatles very much i got you but that aside i think you go no i think she just became so overshadowed by john lennon that her artwork people didn’t really bother suffer from it yeah i think so i think she did some really really challenging stuff i mean i think especially with the films she was making with the fluxes really pushed some boundaries she was doing some really cool stuff in the early 1960s so anyway that’s mine that’s mine i’ve said it’s in the world it’s out there in the world you can’t take it back now unless you edit out the podcast so oh it’s been so much fun nathan i’ve really really enjoyed this you’re very welcome back anytime i might take you up on the offer what’s your time next week now joking no you are you you’re very very welcome be great if you ever want to collaborate on something that’d be cool uh duly noted dooley noted i am always looking for guests i might i might flip the chair around and have you sit down on the postmodern art podcast i’ll just i have a good bit scheduled coming up when it comes to guests so it might be a little bit but i would love to have you on the podcast as well excellent yeah i’d love i’ve really really loved that it’s been so it’s been such a pleasure talking with you tonight it’s been great and i hope you have a brilliant rest of your day and really good luck with your podcast i’m sure it’ll it’ll find who it needs to find thank you thank you i i wish the same on you and then some because you’ve been doing this a lot longer than i have i’ll tell you that much but at the same time like you said we’re basically you know we’re basically two in the same boat at this point like the people that you’re bringing on it’s different than like what i’m bringing on as well so it’s like yeah there’s a different flair for a different person and that’s the beauty when it comes to art there’s so many different tastes there’s so many different cultures and such that whoever you bring on should definitely inspire those that love that culture and stuff so i i’m rooting for you a million times over oh same hair same hair thank you so much thank you for the opportunity

this has been a cozy pea pod production with me paula blair the music is common ground by airton used under a non-commercial 3.0 creative commons license and is available at ccmixter.org we are av culturespod on facebook instagram and twitter and you can also join the conversation on discord if you’ve enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe and your favorite podcast app including youtube if you find auto captions useful and please share with your networks you’ll find links and ways to contact us at audiovisualcultures.wordpress.com we’re always really happy to hear from potential guests and ways to improve the show as well as supporting the pod and receiving member benefits over on patreon you can also help at buymeacoffee.com forward slash p e a blair thanks so much for listening catch you next time you

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