Audiovisual Cultures episode 22 – Selma automated transcript

welcome to episode 22 of audiovisual cultures the podcast that explores and examines different aspects of signed an image based cultural production and their wider impact sons contacts this weekend G. Sheila and I have a post being discussion of Selma the dramatization of Dr Martin Luther king junior's involvement with trying to be in order right and Alabama and centred on that kind of sound them as part of the broader civil rights movement in the nineteen sixties in the United States before we get into that's a big thank you to all our listeners so far whether your regular or you checked in the night the piccolo TA if this is your first time a very warm welcome and I really hope you stick with tests and hope you find a discussion she sold they are usually analytical but of course we often get the personal responses to found that's wild quite a few different frames have been building over the first twenty or so episodes girl hating girl experiences in a little bit of thought comes in today but also the fight for rights and recognition for people who aren't and I'm using scare quotes the defaults are the dominant type of human being thank you so much less than really hope this is useful for very aware of our position as white people in the U. K. dating my thesis questions chatting up by the civil rights movement in the United States try and pick up where we left off a few weeks ago when we were talking about a very very very C. Taylor because she's started to make points by the fiftieth anniversary events %HESITATION freedom said they around you cascina partially because it was in nineteen sixty seven what was then called the university of Newcastle upon Tyne awarded to doctor Martin Luther king an honorary doctorate yes and we've just watched Selma very very late to the party on the phone I think we've both been meaning to watch out for %HESITATION for nearly four years since it came late we've only just managed to get the opportunity to watch it I'm a great believer that you see a phone when you need to see it and I'm failing I think I feel more politicized and more ready mark and James waste on going civil rights issues and particularly this is a great photographs and just yesterday I spent the afternoon on the streets in new castle trying to get people to to months democracy and try and do something to try to tame voter quality and portion of representation and to make votes matter for everybody it's not quite the same since civil rights movement in the United States in the nineteen sixties but it's part of an ongoing struggle with it explains why when you gave me this list of fifteen films this year I gravitated toward so much as opposed to say finding your feet a fantastic woman will hostels a fantastic woman again that's about a whole other set of separate because offset by a trans person trying to get her rights to be who she is and to have her relations department National Party guys but that's a whole other thing for a lot of the time so our focus is on a fed different nice cell mmhm which is really slow at the end of twenty fourteen in the US so we're not quite four years late but we are quite connected to one of those phones has been hunting around at the periphery of my list of stuff to see for quite some time and I say well it would you consider yeah and I think it's just passion as us of this and because %HESITATION I think we extended mentioning Martin Luther king a few weeks ago it from there talking about the C. T. other it's on our minds not just because I got from Kim might roughly forty years after the events at the back stick play yes for us being based in Newcastle upon Tyne S. open quite prescient because Martin Luther king was awarded an honorary doctor here not long before he was assassinated I think it was about six months ago he wanted to be Newcastle in November nineteen sixty seven and eight in Livonia David it's a yellow I think it is fantastic as smiling thinking he's amazing accents yes because we recently saw him and he and the United Kingdom as print thing kings say four months it's really hard to say when their prosthetics with a little bit of hand work hi usually resembles the historic figure he's print because he just watches lots of archive files that person speaking and just a docks that resting phase comes the way that they stick out certain parts of that face when they're talking on those points they were I was losing the media this is a person being mildly thinking I'm just going yes this is obviously certain A. M. and states I thought that was archival but then it's him either that or they've done a seamless mix of the tape yeah I suppose for the benefits of fearlessness we'll find out that the way to the end speech is done is audio archive footage and then after about a minute or so the archive footage then we start to get the visuals of yeah Jim Montgomery from the capitol building that and stick with that technique of cross cutting between the past in the past mmhm how concert film they can if it's just within a short time frame for a longer time frame that's a consistent editing structure like there's this constant exchange because we're still in the past so many of these issues I mean especially in the past two years I think probably that's why the film still so prescient Esther how Spain continue to mergers of black people there's continued racial violence spends taking part in the United States but it's happening in the U. K. S. while she set the phone to packs are issues that are ongoing he said it was about an event that happened roughly forty years before it was actually fourteen now serves nearly half a century in the past the sure to be historical I think I think and it's not that was fantastic as a piece of historical drama for pointing out the logistics behind the protests having Oprah Winfrey's character beyond she's she's trying to register to vote and then the simple set of circumstances where the registrar clearly in Austin have questions that no one there's now where she is as always greeting her from registering to vote and that's the way the film shows that this is what's happening across the south and it's not quiet determination to continue trying to tell you what sneakily writes Veronique and they allow you to vote countrywide this is a legal rights and then a little later on several members of the leadership of the SCLC the southern Christian leadership conference are discussing the larger question of the prevention of African Americans from voting they point out that in order to register to vote you need to have a function as someone who very much is for you it was themselves effectively so if you don't know anyone who can vote and pop because all of your friends and relations are African American and none of them have yet been able to register to vote that's a box and then have several characters listing this catalog of ways in which African Americans and prevented from voting and then another seem to have king himself talking to Lyndon B. Johnson saying its voting and it's so many other things as well the rating on the not being able to fart facts because you can see my jury members to develop and so that means that people are getting left off from crimes that they've clearly committed because the juries that I've been asked to set make decisions about the movement of people who or what and if the murderers and one is after Americans that say there's injustice is something they did a great job of calling plays the specific legal issues including technicalities the these people affecting about anyway that way you wouldn't ordinarily have a single scene where one person in a predicament and sits down and explains what it is has led them to create a political movement in the first place many of different avenues for providing us with some information that as well as a good sensitivity to when things got complicated so why it was for example on the second attempt to March across the Edmund Pettus bridge the state troopers to stand aside and let the marchers but then came just stops and goes the same thing just turns around expect well he needs time should everybody follows and needing to induction moment of silence totally unspoken communication and prior and then he sounds back up and walks through college and that's is that something just and should have been him just not the route he can't even pinpoint it himself he just knew which turned to violence if they continue to this is later on it's still done in his %HESITATION an example of the tensions that exist between the leaders of this movement in the dollar we get little snippets of what it was the content in the meantime back and he mentions that he reckons that there was later bird looks at it yeah to prevent them from getting to Montgomery yeah they got past this country never fail to get back with doctor from getting back again and their their fate would be cut off their past was not fair and so it is better to wait for the court case check out a legal hearing and then to have to be that you had a nice and a non violent way that was a detail in the original story where I mean you are offline right retelling a story like this would go No Way and mia yes sign using backed movement but an entertainment so make it quite complicated because they're used to these precious offense a bit too great that's a bit too inconvenient to fit into a narrative arc and yeah and even I kept that one I suppose it works to an extent as a setback moment well it has to be that moment of conflict because Simone of conflict within the members of the movement because they're challenging him in the paper here on his side are saying they could people are angry they need answers because this is March where a lot of white people travel from all over the country to be less than minutes pointed alright should journalists are counting had since when at the start of the crowd is Caucasian they describe them so lotus summer clergy from all over the country of all different grades people are angry and they want an explanation because they're ready for this March he's held accountable to his own and he says something along the lines of I drive whether they be angry and he hates me and people waiting %HESITATION dads this consequence where you can see him suffering the pain of the people even though his delivery strategy is activists into situations where white officials will lose that rack and will cross the line so people are going to get hurt and starts to show its collateral damage it's not that he's hurting these people but he's knowingly possessing a stretch in which he and his fellow activists are getting in harm's way Bahamas in just because but he's doing it directly to the audience of a lot of films about there's going to be casualties and him repeatedly being seen taking the pain of a boat so take a moment to signal how star studded space for more because maybe this doesn't count as a star from the point of view of the United States him but Tom Wilkinson as these subjects they presently Johnson and I mean it's the two headliners of the caster predation so how David Oyelowo and Tom Wilkinson I'm going to go to work so cruel to say that someone is B. list or C. list but we've got not exactly top flight stars such as Giovanni Ribisi do you recognize the people and I don't know if he's on a long list and I really like to run every PC this paper like Cuba Gooding junior and Oprah Winfrey of course and these are people who don't really have a lot to say when they're on screen they're reading dynamite but they're just not on screen very much mean Oprah Winfrey he only ready has lines when she's playing Alice Cooper trying to register to vote not one of those very arty scenes but it wasn't enough sometimes to shelter seconds long Anne Cooper sorry they might say they're coming back to the store will shoot someone for about three seconds is the highest paid person in itself okay and and but I don't want to Martin chain is that judge rose you've got quite a lot of actors I'm going to be just cynical for a moment because you've got quite a lot of white actors and I noticed Brad pets within the exec producer and credits and he was also an executive producer on wall St twelve years a slave so this seems like a bit of a humanitarian project it pays to support African American film making and to make it by African American history whatever you think of that but I think that's something just to note Bruce and Tim Roth as George Wallace he was the governor of Alabama Alabama he was a democratic government nothing troubling is naked face and rarely I mean the things that he says we're hearing a lot of this rhetoric knife from the far right and the United States so it's quite troubling it is mentioned only dimensions at one time will consume as LBJ mentions at one point that Wallace is quite socialist but is there to stop him from being complete segregation racism so actually there's that moment where I just got your northern president played by any stretch near having %HESITATION quite a bit to re squabbles in the White House with the southern Congress person played by an Englishman both of them doing mathematics and that you've got that shadow of Vietnam over the whole thing %HESITATION hi they use the press hi Martin Luther king manages to orchestrate things to use the press to get attention and siphoned from PH newspaper attention away from the war as well and this is another headache for Lyndon B. Johnson and in the end I mean after quite for Hammond arguments from him thanks I think I'm gonna be on the right side of history he talks about you nineteen eighty five he says to the governor neither of us are going to be here in nineteen eighty five I I want to be remembered as being on the right side of history the next thing is he's appropriating the words from the civil rights movement these will ever come to a point where he finishes with we will overcome as if he just made it up on the spot you've got a lot of that you've got a lot of fight terrorism which is quite cynical then you've got people like the judge played by Martin Sheen who youthful he's reading the letter of the law as it sounds doing what judges tend to do the American film switches go now what we're gonna do this right even though it's gonna take a few days no procedures are going to be slightly observed %HESITATION unobserved in my current case that's how U. S. so making films about judges there's a handful of things that and you're still making art represented almost invariably judges seem to want to okay %HESITATION supported by a lot of other well known names including the rap icon James back into this Michael Papa John first major clout and Michael provision just looks scared with time so you did a good job %HESITATION Wendell pace as has there Williams there's one house that was from the Y. con el the state's person detectives from the war so a big cost and one way I found myself going because representing all these historical figures it's not doing that thing of keeping the list of main characters comfortably small and making sure everyone says each of those names about four five times windows ten minutes I actually find that rainy and transcend because again just to bring up the state the queen relation again here I was really quite happy here the names being repeated because in so many of these kinds of pastries the names fade away it's personalized and one figure heads and that's what happens and hunger with the hunger strikes and then makes presence felt by both the sons and none of the other man he died our names and not from there's a whole other chap to be how to buy them %HESITATION it's got my own feelings about that but it's just tip my diet because it's on my mind because some of the three aces and she's going back to things like twelve years a slave because there's casa she satisfied you've got Martin Luther king who speaks about manta and he's quite middle class barely see if other than his activism life is so different from the lives of the people in Selma and on the bomber it is just making me think a little bit of twelve years a slave for you've got this class conflict within the group of people you know and he mentions that black people he stand by they're just as bad as if he mentions that and one of his rising sermons and the church having this difference initially between the SCLC and what's cool snake which in the student nonviolent coordinating committee have been working in Selma before the SCLC turned up having that conflict is a good way of signaling there's politics all over the place here and it goes from the disagreements that Lyndon B. Johnson house with Monsignor speaking all the way down to disagreements between characters who were within the margin between some of my car one thing that I have to get down now because I didn't make any notes for which is from and you did so I'm gonna get this done before I forget it did you notice just how many of these conversation scenes were shot so the characters were not in the same frame and in the coverage of the two different characters talking the most common set up is that each character would be very close to one edge of the frame looking into the nearest branch as if they were talking with somebody who they were December from was it there's gonna be severing line very close to the face removing them from the person the trying to interact with and most of these conversations were along the lines of we start something some sort of disagreement and then we end up in disagreement but the cinematography wouldn't change they'd still be short in these separate frames and then Moses in the face the quite close up to the fragments that seem to be aware just constantly iterating separation between yeah S. reading of the law the ticket the the earlier conversations between Martin Luther king and his wife Coretta the tensions in their marriage are very clear there's quite a pivotal scene where they've been getting the speeding nasty phone calls I think directed to her saying very horrible things better husbands as a mass shooter an activist but also as an adulterer and playing quite today things like the one that you may prefer you to A. as in times of people having sex the implication being that that's a recording of him with a different woman so our conversation and sheets that's very practically there and %HESITATION separated frames and she for a lot of it as standing in the king dynamite he setting so he's being interrogated and away by her so I got that sense very much and it doesn't let him off the heck the film doesn't idolize him as this great hero this great man hero of history it does actually hold him accountable it does include him in the culpability for deaths and people being hurt but also the treatment of his wife and I go back to his family while he's doing this but somebody has to the displacement echoes through those trials if later ship and the sacrifices that have to be made it there has to be expensive house the sacrifice there has to be about collateral damage even on an emotional level but also he's a preacher I think it's fairly it was a fairly open secret that he did have relationships with other people I don't know very much backed out so we'll leave it at the office but yes she challenges him there's a very clear indication that she knows what he's been up today she doesn't need those phone calls tell her what he's been up today I also find when he's doing speeches at never test centers and on him there's usually a wide angle lens being used so the screen is quite bold G. hunters with a simple point toward bolji basically when the next shop with the same environments often cited angle and with the standard yes the fifty moments yes I find it was happening up when he was giving some sort of speech and he would be center of the frame and it would be curving with him as a focal point about evading create other people sitting behind him setting to the Hispanics things side hand side it behind him to always with him now after having him alone when he's giving speeches never doing that individualizing alpha five eight in one or two shots but yeah yeah maybe just for emphasis not to the extent that you perpetuate and conventional way of filming something like this where you have it's own hero and of course notably the family called Martin Luther king it's called Salma it's up by the time it's a boy those people by their rights it's their fight it's not all about him it's only part of his much larger story the show many of the people who created for people he does that thing in the end credits well before getting to the end credits on the way to them during the speech at the end where you've got a name given on what happened to that person and so the president to go from there if there's a white woman Hey wasn't named I think she has one or two lines of dialogue in the whole thing was named in the and she was named in the dialogue Farley user point site that this woman who had come to help after seeing the horrors on TV of the brutality of the place two words the criteria actually went to the courthouse to try to register to vote in the first place she felt compelled to say something and shows her and cried and said she was killed five hours after that speech driving people boxes so even things like soft acknowledging that there were a life there not every white person state by and that all this happened at doesn't do this thing of what happens and the help of white people there to see if yourself today it just says these people were with us and we remember them and I acknowledge them today as far as common awareness of heard Martin Luther king was on it Dr Martin Luther king junior what's the first I was kind of this king was quite secular one because the most emphasis that's put on him being a believing Christian is that one moment when they're in jail after the initial conflict is happening somewhere outside the courthouse and the one who's in the same cell with him having very whispered conversation and they start quoting a little base of something from the book of Matthew the gospel according to Matthew that's it most of the speeches that you want to take place in churches was gonna cross behind in their speeches have no religious content in the metal and there's even a few that sweat during speeches of from ones that happen outside the church what he'll do better religious content of the act but it's often at the point where people are cheering and chanting and clapping so much that you can hear me saying save lives and restraint areas this is on account of king in which the emphasis is on humanist activism and having listened recently to the speech that he gave in but the only degree castle those numbers just kind enough to having all these other companions are members of the SLC I think some of them wearing that because yes school garb some of them who are also preaches not wearing their TVS will go having these people busy interacting with each other in a way where the membership of religious organization is mostly irrelevant to what they're doing is a very well is very twenty first century way of representing this and I'm not going to tell whether it's a historic accurately representing this because I don't know enough about me I don't know if it's dying plates one offs and I don't know where divinity stones on this either so I don't really want to comment yeah I was wondering even with what there is in the family because there is a pre using of because when I hear that I always feel like the couple used to and this isn't going to send message to you Dennis you're selling yourself short I was just going there but yeah I was going there yeah this one really telling moment which is after the second attempt to cross the bridge when they've actually been next week but then I decided not to go yeah after that there's the SCLC %HESITATION the snake members having that discussion in the views of the church afterwards and none of them mentioned anything to do with the car there we go sign within the next year there's two white preachers CM down from the north to join it themselves concluding that that's what happened to K. so three Hey all this was something to do with divine intervention that's not sent by anyone except for these two I think based on file though say hysterical to priests in Boston so they publicly of Irish descent I'm guessing there in Boston then it's likely it's them he speculated by the divine intervention of wireless you could actually read to start crunching dine fascinating and the silence of says just a moment of quiet reflection and thinking taking pause to think this right because we've seen him already it set him up as the street he just it's like a game of chess where he can see five mesa had he can anticipate what the other players going to date it's very similar and now he's thinking this is too you say they're gonna just satisfactory they're going to close the door after us and we're gonna get stranded and we're going to get paid not ten miles down the road from a gonna have nowhere to go I wanted to purchase was the unitarians this Friday on the second watch synthesis was on multiphase memberships because I have the orthodox either Greek or Russian orthodox guy Joseph was gone eastern orthodox rabbi several nuns and then when it came to that meeting down everyone else not down yet it's clear that some people praying is kept out of the loop when prime at least it wasn't clear that they were it was evidently something members non religiously specific as far as you do that you have a motive to do that now anyway to avoid diminishing and affinity people might fail with this moment but at the same time can have that same moved in at the time he had the motive to appeal to the small but none the less significant non Christian population of African Americans it also did nothing which historical drama tends to do which was that he was going wrong if not done too I was thinking a lot of the standard night that's not wrong just over two hours there's some historical drama school on for nearly three different ones and a lot of kids movies recently yeah I used to the eighty minutes type thing I don't know I think we post a few times because they're watching it at home so we were %HESITATION thing and running a writing things so we probably failed to come more televisual approach task to be fair probably in the Senate map I think I would have been correct and I probably would have seen the time go when I was noticing some really interesting %HESITATION signed adding and sign design there is a lot of asynchronous signs there was one particular point and it just seems like a very small interim moments but there is a part for you you for watching several people getting out of the car walking towards another group well and you could hear voices in the sign track he didn't hear the car doors closed when you saw them close and then it was a bit of a delay before you actually call the shots that was attached to the voices of the people who were actually ordering those voices and those words there was quite a lot of fun happening there was quite a lot of overlap and I think it was part of the idea of the messiness of tying the slippages and history things were happening at once even if they weren't at the same time ever added it is after happening at sametime so you were getting a plan being described and then and Jim and they saying that cross coat with it actually happening with the white preachers getting beaten up you're seeing that cross coat with the membership for the correct going to Martin Luther king what he she having to tell him and that takes it all right that they were beaten to death according to corporate computer at least the one who was the focus of that scene is one of the more attention from the American the other dog two days left and so I did what the phone was in there was it was yeah we're just gonna show not so the character died the same day or this is monsoons marked for a quick breakfast in terms of this king's colleagues informing him about two two days after the which is probably gonna happen as soon as they heard because there are the other are they I find it on clear actually because it seems like their attackers were saying to them you've come here and they were talking about it go going home so it's saying that they weren't yet back in Boston box when was it James was telling came by the incidence than just hearing about it he was referring to it happening in Boston maybe I've picked up from five is unclear on then where their location was when they were taxed to crystalline sama I think they were on purpose for where the king is currently uses the SCLC also work on three there could have been a distance between the mall because it's fast enough backsheet that when they're in sound that they go and stay with a woman I can't remember her name it seems to be a regular thing and then more and more manner and she saw her there since repairing also on Spokane on their knowledge labor of women underneath all of this that's happening service woman probably Boston type of the marches but she was looking after all of these men who were running everything giving ample Oregon feeding them so it seems like they were all because they were in a domestic setting he shaving in the bathroom and a whole group of them go to him what's happened so it seems that they're in that domestic setting where they're all staying together I find that seen it just depends on the player as to where everybody was yes their stock collapse of times throughout the film and of course it's the narrative films so that has to be a reduction and what's happened up there for a long period of time when Malcolm X. was introduced and shuffled off rather quickly yes that was an example of that definitely there's a scene in which he was used to somebody who wants to be part of the Selma activities and he had changed from the mechanics that kept being mentioned by the account as early on as somebody who was Millicent Simmonds for contrast to king's form of protest which capping stressed as being non violent and then suddenly we're having a scene where king is saying one of the summons you've recalling when Kennedy died and then he says and then one Malcolm X. was also recently taken from us and I hear her say about the Max having given a sermon and that same church three weeks before yeah this is very recent so did %HESITATION sort of make it pretty clear that this was a small segment of a much bigger story if you instances in principle by just having people seem so tired my cursory hiring all these buttons and wasn't just came on most about having that text and saying this is what happened to reach these people what's wrong so the the film in being about some of was just about a little bit of more indicated to be a much long story of course and your phones which have historical subjects students tend to do that I find intestine was the firm being G. it is almost by that reminder consummate with the text being typed on the screen and the fat people signed up the typewriter and a half the only Kerrier farms have so much from the X. files because they seem to think that this constant presence of the FBI surveilling everybody logging everything for just a moment I thought alright service techs can keep appearing on screen and it's giving us the events that's also occurring at the time because the FBI has been told to Sputnik people but does it mean that the FBI these records count as an informal version of and right and so I thought I'd seen the film so closely fertilized in these characters and based on screen Texas antagonist stick that project that it kind of reminds me of those epistolary novels where you don't just get losses of one person you get replies as well clearly we get in those numbers yet most of you have a main character and then the replies are with critical of the main character because there was someone to be mean to them some of the person or something and there is clear even though you're getting an account given by antagonists that they don't count as official or unofficial Aratus because we've already had the view of the world the best on talking stick to ready it was one where sting compressing the larger fields of conflicted motives that this phone and I did forms of several points going but we now gonna have another speech where personality who has a motif that conflicts with person B. is gonna have a damn good go at persuading passing by a young person B. is going to look very closely at them and then it's going to do what I want to do anyway that was just instance after instance after instance of that one point where someone actually managed to persuade somebody else to do something and it was one one of the snake members I think it was shown he told the story about having been attacked when he was younger and told it to king who is driving around in the Continental shop with the coverage of the two individual character yeah pretty much right up against the nose and came just listened and listened and seems to be influenced by that speech this is such an American cinema things having characters who are so strong and so rhetorically able they do a speech I never around and goes from being completely opposed to them to be completely in favor of the subject that a little bit mostly did they there's a big speech and nobody of any power these are expensive at least gets convinced there's also the people giving speeches to crowds in the crowds are already one of our situation but that's a different one the nudity that speech that Janice gifts and the car it's Martin Luther king's words that he's reciting he's talking about haven't been beaten and then the next day he makes sure he's out of speech that king is giving do you remember that and came says what did I say and he tells them about his younger self said so K. hang is one over by the words of his younger self so again they're slippages of history I did for myself thinking how much time is just puff since the last scene that we so wondering if what to be expecting any character to pay gray hat in the next scene the thing is absent was the on screen text saying three days later maybe it's a way that we can share in that kind of history that's quite narrative vice actually when the rate these histories so it's quite natural translated stuff and film as well and it's not doing it in a way that is to disorientating thought thought back and forth so I think she ends of the past and the present as well as the past present and future actually because to everybody in the film the reference nineteen eighty five fifths twenty years in the future where is up thirty years in the past for us there's an awareness that history is being created and their authors of history here and then there should revise search of history retelling the stories and highlighting things that were hidden that we're not located and histories even just a little moments like I said the same to more domestic chores or if they on the same play upper of the women often make friends even if they're on the periphery things safe when things get a bit much for Kane and he telephoned the female singer he needs comfort he needs something to give me strength and she sings the gospel song holy objects that was one of those moments with a %HESITATION he's gonna turn out to be a flounder are quite clearly but as you know he just finds out someone who knows to sing to him and she doesn't care and the person she's in bed with all citizens in the cat because this is for because it's their fight today and they're doing what they can for this fight there is quite a nice you alight scene when things start to turn for the better when knights road I certainly can't remember if it's just before the second time they take the March or the third but when I think about a whole day as I mentioned the command of famous people and the singers and performers to the come dine and join in I was thinking as well at the rate it's very quick but it's right at the start and it's a very powerful scene the part where a bomb goes off the four girls are murdered is really quite harrowing but I think it's notable that they were coming down the stairs never talking about normal things that concerned them I think we were talking about it with their hair with the difficulty of working with their hair and talking about it I think each other's mothers and so and so I think her hair just like that I don't think she uses Carter she sued the parking with the type of hair that they've caught I haven't seen a wrinkle in time the man girl character he carries the film one of her concerns as her hair is learning to embrace the texture of hair that she has I just remember when our income times coming out people are starting to see this and she gave it a very nice Twitter was flooded with mothers thanks thank you so much for this because my daughter not loves her frizzy hair my daughters and I love to %HESITATION curry half my daughters and I love the coarse hair there's this embracing and I think this is been a concern of hers I think it's something that smacks of white privilege as we don't think of bites that kind of thing all the products and all of our shops are into our kind of hair you need specialized products or he cancels quick meant to deal with certain kinds of hair everything around us privileges are higher so such a tiny moment and it's an incentive part and it sets up just the normal these little girls are and then it makes the tragedy and the violent subject ass even more extreme that this could be and you know girls talking about their hair and I'm not sure the age of self discovery any particular scene was one of those customers stickier resting ones right at the moment was very calm I'm shocked with slow moving characters very very warmly lit and very simple environment right the moment where that's interrupted by all this debris flying across the shop and the noise of the explosion right the moment the speed of the sound and the speed of the visuals get separated the originals instantly slow down to slow motion but the sound continues on a snowy ice and so we here at the huge off the mouth because it's lots and lots of rubble falling to the ground and it rains take tennis matches yeah nine what was the most unlikely observer and then at the same time what we getting is the scholastic flying of stuff to the %HESITATION and there's dust and it's all quite yellow and you can see bits of lives and that's a fact that you're saying is that someone upside down you know to really abstract I'm not is held for quite some time notably as well because they were coming down a staircase and there's lots of little details and up to date I just the way they were putting their hands on the banisters to turn around the corner status emphasis and the shots the shouts for help back far enough that you can see the curls you can see the stained glass windows the same glass windows there with images of an African American man and woman their faces and it's so rare to have those kinds of visual representations mark this as a black yes possibly a black place of worship it was like to mention that there's a chance yeah it's giving you those details and should he hire date %HESITATION this commission's going efforts even places of worship that are being targeted with that kind of violence they don't care he said the building already insidious things that was said during the north American contract was the only good one is a dead one that's what helped me it's not mentality of hair for planted those bombs and of course these are people who've never held accountable for their actions again we mentioned that former talking to fight the rape of Recy Taylor B. because that same issue from twenty years before that this was what she kept coming up against was that it was white police officers descended from family members of her family white men on the jury all white men at every stage of the way so they could never get any justice and twenty years on this is still the case I don't think is mentioned in the phone but just take a quick look and a bomb is described as having been planted by the KKK and the KKK later mentioned over it but if the endings text but there seems to be a decision not to bring them up it could be the idea of actually not giving them any credence I think it's just that overall sense of white supremacism that's coming to an end you don't have to belong to a man named organization because it shows the last city beach the white preachers to death it shows their faces they're not hiding and they know they're going to get away with that and they call them there's only one thing worse than and Marty so white and March as well they say they associates number still saying this were so famous in terms of racial discrimination in terms of sexual discrimination LGBTQ plus advice and many countries getting traded and stocks seem like today and I think also in terms of racial violence and topping for a range of reasons it just seems there are certain people Hey want the excuse for that kind of behavior because they get away with that under the prevailing climatic I suppose but the rain began at the right time to say this because at the time that this film was me it's Brock Obama was the president of the United States of America tonight America's under Donald Trump white supremacy is rising and that terrifying way another terrifying rates even in the U. K. with the aftermath of the E. U. referendum two years ago there has been at an all time digit amazing of racial abuse use two or three people on a rice effects upon the system here these are fights that are far from over there far from one twenty one to the room we need to show my face you've got a system to make about the extent to which to explore why it is that these Confederate flag waving apartments the back coming up against why it is they think what they think and the George Wallace carried the make up and hair the government mostly by tomorrow also the general bye okay what Timothy articulated a little bit of the thinking that was behind the opposition but it was really quite cursory Sir I got a sense of the firm was going southerners I'm not mistaken this is big that's not the way I would have done it I was at least a first look at why it is people for what they thought because as you know I've told many occasions to explain why someone thinks of the something is not to justify why they do it it's to better understand causality and that's what I'm saying because I'm too can prevent happening again in future so there was quite a few instances in which where these people were they were just these nameless white characters who were just shouting abuse obviously that's exactly what these activists came up against but of course is not producing dramas like this to have shots of them is the wise officials having those discussions are meant that there was some the one where Wallace was talking to the guys seem to have a local state troopers and also someone else who was a local law enforcement that respects the fact that by and large it just seemed to be these people are just bigoted and that's the fact that they become possibly be that anyone could have and should have been convinced of something that they might like to have convinced ourselves what I suggest is that there's something intrinsic about being of a certain ethnicity that means you're just going to be lacking an understanding of people of another ethnicity and the way in which the film went over some white people who understanding was if there's white people were religious I suppose that may be the place where the film was going was making this up too what is culture was that it was going what brings people together of the life blood of this activist movement is the payroll people all face regardless of faith but I think there were because it was an old people to do the clergy there and there's the woman he's highlighted it's hers as she sees it on TV and she's devastated there's no indication either way about her being there because she's religious he seems more like a humanitarian see the warm because it was a very quick brief shots was the one who should sit on the couch with a guy saying on TV and he was consoling her she was devastated to announce the woman Hey you told at the end she was she her being there getting night packs and things and then after speech and she said one viewer told she's not named correct phone number her name is given a natural choose a sauce needed after the state okay are centered to them I think there is a KKK there was there was a handful of instances of people so they were just changing that mark had acted in seem to be at least it wasn't obvious that there was a religious motivation to go first first one things that seem to be employed was that these one people came and joined the move from the north brother VS runs on fifteen February the educated probably middle class I mean they had enough money to build a gap there and give up their time a lot of them are women because women encourage J. mostly you mentioned that the thermal stresses that women in these bolstering roles but also on the March is just north and then leave yeah yeah %HESITATION there everywhere I said yeah that was pointed out by one of the historians and the rape of Recy Taylor as well as that if you watch all the archival footage of both king's speeches women are all the way through Christ our old place they're going to spring creek is about leadership will be men because one of them was a woman is dying mash when he's in the car yeah she's not really highlighted that much but she is there she is a presence we must also just come back to the this is how American films represent judges I want to come back to me this is how American films represent Jagger Hoover's because yeah he was just evil %HESITATION eagles evil tech stuff and I think the guy he plays American members name but he's got one of those familiar faces because he does loads of small roles in TV and I think he cites many evil people in the axe files and programs like that his name is Dylan Baker I was a really nice for our well meaning people he's probably one of those guys who can play really horrible people these but we really love the person he was in planes trains and automobiles it's been a load of tally why do we recognize him all right and spend around today he was in happiness yeah that was yeah his character in the film was performing characters in a wonderful mysteries wasn't concerned that's where I recognize him from actually probably as the sun made me Spiderman two and three yes %HESITATION January third he's never given to get drafted in the exiles he's not since I've sent items and it really sucks that surveillance angle the distrust of everything it's very post McCarthy it feels like that legacy still going on ten years later not to trust anybody wires through the homes phones being tops I was thinking actually because there was a lot of and the sign was again the destructive signed your maybe sing a montage of other things happening but you've got this phone call and the audio you're hearing it as if it's a recording of a phone call rather than hearing either end of the phone call and it was reminding me of the tapes of phone calls planning and Errol Morris's the folder for the documentary thank you Robert McNamara's talking about his involvement in Vietnam and he of course was under and and be Johnson throughout much of our phone calls or send to me Johnson not quite sketchy Spain gosh when today today that %HESITATION that is over ten years ago it is just reminded me about like I was hearing the signed up the recording of a phone call I was seeing as well as the montage is on screen of saying these tapes to cassettes turning on the charm because it is reminding me of top secret recordings that were being managed to avoid a particular I'm thinking about you were seeing M. L. K. his four children and they're all in bubble baths and he's talking to my mother already slate and you're hearing this phone call looks to trying to plan something and saying I want to put it off for a day on to the next Marshall Friday because I've got stuff to do my family and the people who were there and so much and it's still nurses who speaking with a guy from snake that younger yes I know it was ready to go this is the ideal time you can do this I see that might be another instance where MLK was actually persuaded to do some yeah by John there is a possibility %HESITATION I mean he's maybe he sees himself and this useful guide he is behind him he has been inspired by him so again it's he's being in fired by younger version of himself channel three Jonas that septentrionalis Wayne his middle class family night on the poles of the activism and doing what's right for the greater good I wonder if C. B. S. the channel had to get in their place being named rise because it's specifically about channel that's running the violence of the first March when the county says town TV the Quincy B. S. I've been looking up who was that I think it's got a great acting face and I said it was Michael Papa John but it's not Stephen root messing him about it from here he's always got rather thin framed glasses on the radio station going over the mountain actually there's quite a few of these things have changed some of the police work FOR your handsome back very remember these phones Gordan and dodgeball a true underdog story styles %HESITATION no country for old men this is a job being active in everything we can get out all we haven't enough we need to see that and just being a bit of a whimper by cars let me a quiet place and stresses me so much but when we're in the midst of trailers and so hereditary which just promises to be the most terrifying film ever made ever since the new York's assist composer I'm sure get that we can get away with the really rather than a lot of things that she's so close ally H. to what people are talking about issues that concern the country of which none of this is a weak country much but if this is what we can say that and look at the depot and if anybody else ever hear status and hasn't seen Salamat and baseball too it's really worth your time some of them do any sort of assessment of the because your phones well I thought it was really a great thing and I so beautifully additive today reading the scripts but any other thing yeah and and some of the folks who scored just a crane shot at the bridge that focus on the name and the rest Stephen running dying from the letters on the bridge from this is going to be crazy right I can assure I don't know about movement because we're kind of going back and stuff like that what we saw them go four stars out of five or anything like that we do know the last ten to go you should see this film this much you should have this much about going to see this and I think in the case of this I think because it's fun yeah Scorpios may decide that fast enough for people to be on my about page and thanks to some things and they show nothing happened and that should be useful %HESITATION %HESITATION just okay first %HESITATION couple months back shortly after the monthly U. fifteen genius that she didn't make us university have been unveiled a guy who specifically come to visit the university to gaze photo taken with the statute I was American I seventy walking in pasta stature into an entrance into the optional building and he said would you mind taking my photo on this yeah finally getting his phone I just a couple of basic photos portrait and landscape all you have and the first to recognize the statue's face that's the one thing that affected the camera recognize the statue's face because you know how facial recognition technology goes is that mostly focus on a funny face it recognize the face of a statue and not the face of the human the very distinctive famous though and also it's less that she's which he's been delivered even made larger than life because and this is monitoring theory actual life statues we tend to find on K. deserve it layers so little margin life just about prevents it being on campus so this guy did have to put his arm up quite a bit yeah but it's a hundred and okay that's it you're walking through the compass and the eve of the temples and you tell the Senate that he's really there you set the world to rights within the campus there's a statute in my home town which is of a local celebrity and it's actually life size and just as carriers and as we fly off topic okay great exhibition of the north as on of the moment and we can make it work I bought this month by nor supported by greed exhibition I feel like we should be doing stuff today without box open so one interesting I can't really feel compelled to death yeah I poked through the great north museum come on Hancock because we don't give me some simple names anymore last week H. and stave paper %HESITATION for all of the normal exhibits with other exhibits so that you know that you you might look in a cage which school stuff burns in it and it's also got another artifact that's been put in it which is nothing to do with stuff both which is got a little time thank you to all the other plans to mean what it is like that throughout music thing I've learned is and would make some models for kids TV shows my residency including lots of the models used in in the night garden which my kids grow up on and pop thank you a form which we remember fondly scurrying blowing inspecting the same time I was pulled back %HESITATION yeah great personal seems to be a very broad definition of great exhibition and north and I'm sure we'll be discussing yeah like to know how people in Inverness favored by but anyway one other thing yeah it's a little treats its subject that shooting skin tones she can cause substantial frontage sometimes in one film is a logistical knowing that because you have to gauge the particular amount of life to the skin reflects very carefully and gauge the license of the sensitivity of fuel from some more your effective senses on all digital cameras very precisely in order to get the fine gradations of one dog they just across any single person skin ordinarily European skin has been taken as the norm for that which is more effective or flight than skin with more talent and %HESITATION so what I can mean is even phones when you try to represent African American characters any characters recent African origin as being a person may be accidental move of not showing them in the fine details from lights to shelves that you do in the skin of white people but I've given I was totally on top of that yeah she was not for him to any of us forces us a really good point actually this is something she's also tweeted a lot of pain as the research she's done and say photographers and cinematographers who specialize in this kind of work and I will pick some links and show notes saying three point our website at Audi of Asian cultures DOT wordpress dot com nine this on the podcast PH thanks to have three episodes on the PGA onsite PC keep support coming what we do is we gratefully received and if we get even more that means I'll be able to release everything on I change something more accessible for a wider range of people and also at the site and its capital I cast on and updating equipment sharing on social media is also a massive help them you can find us at AZ cultures on Twitter and if you want to get in touch if you want to get involved get a show each on audio visual cultures at G. mail dot com thanks so much and catch the next time